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| 01:11.23 | CodeYoddler | Wow, $229 for a Zaurus? |
| 01:12.08 | Aimio | CodeYoddler: 2nd hand? |
| 01:12.19 | CodeYoddler | No, the topic |
| 01:13.58 | Aimio | blimey! noo, I just bought one 2nd hand in UK for £250 pounds, ~$450? |
| 01:14.04 | Aimio | 450 dollars |
| 01:14.29 | CodeYoddler | $450! |
| 01:14.44 | CodeYoddler | In the US it is about $300 for a new one |
| 01:16.43 | *** join/#zaurus raster (~raster@203.206.217.82) |
| 01:19.11 | CodeYoddler | raster, Aimio paid $450 for a second hand Zaurus |
| 01:19.50 | Aimio | oi! |
| 01:19.50 | Neo|Work | it's refurbished |
| 01:20.14 | *** topic/#zaurus by Neo|Work -> Sharp PDA Discussion - http://developer.sharpsec.com/ || http://MyZaurus.com/ || http://openzaurus.org/ || OpenZaurus 3.1rc2 released. || <sniper> MARK KASOK at PC Connection for a $229 developer special price on REFURBISHED SL-5500 (call (603) 423-2127) |
| 01:20.15 | Aimio | 250 pounds is what i paid :/ |
| 01:20.58 | Aimio | NeoTron: I thought you were going to put 'Amio paid 450 for a Zaurus! Woohoo! in /topic 4 a min ... :o |
| 01:21.59 | Neo|Work | heh, no |
| 01:22.05 | Neo|Work | but that is a quite impressive price |
| 01:22.12 | Neo|Work | I mean, that's how much they cost in the US when they were brand new |
| 01:22.57 | CodeYoddler | How much are they new in the UK? |
| 01:23.07 | raster | CodeYoddler: what currency? |
| 01:24.29 | CodeYoddler | US |
| 01:24.46 | Aimio | $ |
| 01:25.12 | CodeYoddler | yeah |
| 01:25.26 | Aimio | hmm, £pound sign use shows up my messed up keyboard layout :/ |
| 01:25.53 | CodeYoddler | How much are they though? |
| 01:28.26 | raster | CodeYoddler: thats pretty pricey for a used z |
| 01:35.56 | CodeYoddler | yeah |
| 01:36.17 | CodeYoddler | I am going to get one soon, I might get the developer special |
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| 01:38.14 | Aimio | I did get it sent to me before I paid, and I was living in temp accomodation ... seller was lucky! |
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| 02:25.18 | DrZaius | anybody seen both an ipaq and a zaurus? |
| 02:25.27 | treke | yes |
| 02:25.32 | DrZaius | i can't find anywhere that compares the two after getting linux on an ipaq |
| 02:25.40 | DrZaius | k. what'd you think? |
| 02:25.44 | treke | they are mostly the same |
| 02:25.47 | DrZaius | and which would you get? |
| 02:25.49 | treke | the ipaq is a bit slower |
| 02:25.57 | treke | but has more storage space |
| 02:25.59 | DrZaius | i've only got about 400, so i'm stuck with a lowend device either way |
| 02:26.01 | DrZaius | hmm |
| 02:26.13 | treke | the zaurus is a lot cheaper |
| 02:26.14 | DrZaius | and you can't get opera and such for it, can you? |
| 02:26.17 | treke | the ipaq has a nicer kernel |
| 02:26.21 | treke | the zaurus has java |
| 02:26.33 | treke | the ipaq has more expansion options |
| 02:26.39 | treke | the zaurus has sd and a keyboard |
| 02:26.46 | DrZaius | opera and jaleon have me really heavilly leaning towards the zaurus 5500 |
| 02:26.53 | treke | jaleon? |
| 02:26.57 | DrZaius | well, that and having both the cf and sd slot |
| 02:27.07 | DrZaius | well, that or whatever the java vm is called |
| 02:27.27 | treke | the zaurus is usually a bit cheaper than the ipaq |
| 02:27.57 | DrZaius | do they hold up about the same? |
| 02:28.15 | treke | Never used a zaurus over a long enough period to know how stable it is |
| 02:28.19 | treke | er durable |
| 02:28.32 | DrZaius | how bout battery life |
| 02:28.45 | treke | ipaq has a larger battery |
| 02:28.48 | DrZaius | big enough thing to throw off there being (i assume) a lot more zaurus software? |
| 02:29.14 | treke | software is interchangable |
| 02:29.19 | DrZaius | it's the same? |
| 02:29.24 | treke | yes. its linux |
| 02:29.27 | DrZaius | even the binaries? |
| 02:29.31 | treke | linux on an arm is linux on an arm |
| 02:29.45 | DrZaius | opera and the java vm available for the ipaq? |
| 02:29.48 | treke | no |
| 02:30.03 | treke | but they will run on it if you had it |
| 02:30.10 | DrZaius | hmm |
| 02:30.29 | DrZaius | so all the tkwhatever things work on the ipaq too? |
| 02:30.33 | treke | yes |
| 02:31.14 | treke | basically it boils down to ipaq = slower,better battery, more storage, more expansions options |
| 02:31.39 | treke | zaurus = faster, all in one design, sd support |
| 02:31.45 | treke | and smaller |
| 02:32.13 | DrZaius | hmm.. |
| 02:32.18 | DrZaius | well, what would you get? |
| 02:32.29 | DrZaius | on about a 400 budget, but i can get my wifi adapter later if i need to |
| 02:32.32 | treke | me? I'd probably buy another ipaq |
| 02:32.43 | DrZaius | zaurus runs about $350, but not sure what models to look at w/the ipaq |
| 02:32.49 | DrZaius | bunch out there |
| 02:33.08 | treke | I've seen the zaurus way below 350 |
| 02:33.12 | treke | more in the 250 range |
| 02:33.14 | DrZaius | the 5500? |
| 02:33.19 | treke | yes |
| 02:33.24 | DrZaius | where? |
| 02:33.29 | treke | staples |
| 02:33.30 | DrZaius | epinions only lists about 320 or so |
| 02:33.34 | DrZaius | staples? |
| 02:33.38 | treke | yes |
| 02:33.47 | DrZaius | it's not listed on their website |
| 02:33.55 | DrZaius | office depot has it for 400 |
| 02:33.58 | DrZaius | newegg 350 |
| 02:34.04 | treke | DrZaius: Walk into their store |
| 02:34.17 | DrZaius | oooh they have stores? :) |
| 02:34.23 | treke | haha |
| 02:34.44 | treke | yes they do :) |
| 02:35.30 | treke | dunno how common they are in indiana though |
| 02:36.01 | DrZaius | in what? |
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| 02:37.21 | DrZaius | are you from around here, or did you just recognize the isp? |
| 02:37.41 | DrZaius | (there is a staples in evansville, where i'm at. i'm set, so far as that goes) |
| 02:37.48 | *** join/#zaurus warmi (~www@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 02:37.59 | treke | DrZaius: Just looked up the isp :) |
| 02:38.04 | treke | the website says indiana |
| 02:38.26 | treke | DrZaius: The Zaurus is probably going to be the less expensive choice and really is a nice system |
| 02:38.42 | DrZaius | yup |
| 02:38.55 | DrZaius | assuming i can't find it for less than ~350 though, is it worth it? |
| 02:39.17 | DrZaius | like, is the keyboard and software worth the battery i'd be giving up? |
| 02:39.36 | treke | DrZaius: Some people really like the keyboard |
| 02:39.39 | warmi | what do you have now ? |
| 02:39.54 | DrZaius | nothing :) |
| 02:39.58 | treke | warmi: he's trying to decide between a zaurus and an ipaq with linux |
| 02:40.09 | DrZaius | i've got a pad of paper in my pocket |
| 02:40.13 | DrZaius | and a broken mp3 player |
| 02:40.18 | warmi | well, if he doesn't plan to run PocketPC at all then I would say Zaurus all the way |
| 02:40.19 | DrZaius | time to merge 'em together |
| 02:40.21 | warmi | I have both |
| 02:40.26 | DrZaius | cool |
| 02:40.28 | warmi | Z and ipaq 3835 |
| 02:42.52 | DrZaius | hmm |
| 02:43.05 | DrZaius | weird. was there something said after "Z and ipaq 3835"? |
| 02:43.19 | warmi | no |
| 02:43.22 | DrZaius | i coulda sworn i said something like "is the battery life on the zaurus as bad as they say?", but i don't see it |
| 02:43.23 | DrZaius | ok |
| 02:43.30 | DrZaius | well, is it? :) |
| 02:44.14 | DrZaius | oh, and... |
| 02:44.14 | warmi | well, let's just put it that way - it is as bad as it is on ipaq :-) |
| 02:44.30 | DrZaius | how well does doom and the nes emulator run on the zaurus? |
| 02:44.50 | warmi | DrZaurus: I haven't tried them |
| 02:45.03 | warmi | btw ... Z is about 30 faster as far as memory access than ipaq 3835 |
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| 02:45.09 | warmi | I have no clue why but it is |
| 02:45.13 | DrZaius | weird |
| 02:45.16 | warmi | yeah |
| 02:45.29 | treke | warmi: I ought to ask jamey next time he logs on |
| 02:45.29 | DrZaius | 30%, or 30ms? |
| 02:45.32 | treke | he'd probably know |
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| 02:45.41 | warmi | I wrote an asm code to do some fast animation and the same code runs about 30% slower on ipaq than it does on the zaurus |
| 02:46.07 | DrZaius | oh, that reminds me. does the terminal have to run horizontally? |
| 02:46.15 | DrZaius | like, does the whole display have to run horizontally? |
| 02:46.27 | warmi | both are rotated |
| 02:46.36 | DrZaius | can you turn it on it's side, run some command, and then have xterm/vim run widescreen? |
| 02:46.37 | DrZaius | ok |
| 02:46.43 | warmi | oh you mean that |
| 02:46.47 | DrZaius | so.. that mean no? |
| 02:47.00 | warmi | yeah, there is aditional package that you can install to have your screen rotated |
| 02:47.04 | DrZaius | ok cool |
| 02:47.06 | warmi | it doesn't come installed by default |
| 02:47.31 | warmi | well, what I really want these days is C 700 |
| 02:47.34 | DrZaius | how's your zaurus held up? do you use it a lot? |
| 02:47.41 | warmi | we talking here 640x480 |
| 02:47.44 | DrZaius | yah, that looks beautiful |
| 02:47.51 | warmi | DrZaius : I own 5000d model |
| 02:47.56 | warmi | it works very well |
| 02:48.11 | DrZaius | but if i had that kinda money, i'd buy a laptop and a sexy russian woman to carry it about for me |
| 02:48.28 | warmi | yeah, that sounds just about right |
| 02:48.29 | warmi | heh |
| 02:48.32 | DrZaius | yup |
| 02:48.39 | DrZaius | japanese lady'd be ok too |
| 02:48.50 | DrZaius | but she has to have a cool accent, or she's right out |
| 02:48.51 | warmi | but these I believe don't come that cheap |
| 02:49.12 | DrZaius | the c700's just as far outta my price range, in relative terms ;) |
| 02:49.13 | warmi | anyway .... what kind of ipaq you were thinking ? |
| 02:49.23 | DrZaius | i wasn't, really |
| 02:49.35 | DrZaius | i mean, i'd thought "ipaq", but not "ipaq xxxx" |
| 02:49.52 | warmi | well, both are cheap these days ( meaning the Zaurus and older ipaq models) |
| 02:49.54 | DrZaius | hard to tell objectively which would run better in *nix |
| 02:50.03 | warmi | you can get either of them for around 280-300 or so |
| 02:50.08 | DrZaius | i'll be getting a zaurus 5500 if i do |
| 02:50.14 | DrZaius | i've got $350 set aside |
| 02:50.28 | warmi | I think both are OK .. I just prefer to have a keyboard and CF/SD for the same price |
| 02:50.46 | DrZaius | feel as tough as the ipaq? |
| 02:50.52 | DrZaius | have any bad cells on the screen? |
| 02:51.07 | warmi | not on mine |
| 02:51.22 | warmi | but I have read some stories about people having bad pixels etc .. |
| 02:51.25 | DrZaius | break anything on either one yet? |
| 02:51.36 | DrZaius | and do you carry around the zaurus a lot? |
| 02:51.59 | warmi | I carry my Z to listen to mp3s mostly |
| 02:52.10 | warmi | I don't really use is as a PDA (whatever that means) |
| 02:52.16 | warmi | I do play some games etc .. |
| 02:52.23 | DrZaius | i won't be doing much more than that |
| 02:52.30 | warmi | but I am not very big about keeping my addressboks etc .. |
| 02:52.32 | DrZaius | i'm a CS student. i don't need an appt. book |
| 02:52.39 | warmi | beside , I mainly use it for development etc |
| 02:52.40 | CodeYoddler | When is the C700 coming out? |
| 02:52.42 | DrZaius | i just need zgcc or whatever and doom |
| 02:52.45 | DrZaius | and the mp3 decoder |
| 02:52.59 | warmi | CodeYoddler: you mean in US ? |
| 02:53.01 | DrZaius | and the ti85 emulator. that'll be nice to have |
| 02:53.10 | warmi | yeah, there is one |
| 02:53.24 | warmi | as a matter of fact , our good friend mark ported it |
| 02:53.26 | DrZaius | CodeYoddler: there's already people importing it to the states, if you're desperate. runs about 500, i think |
| 02:53.40 | DrZaius | it looks pretty sweet |
| 02:53.41 | warmi | runs aroun 500 for the Japanese model .. |
| 02:53.56 | warmi | if you want US version - it will cost you about $700 |
| 02:54.00 | CodeYoddler | Isn't taht the mini-notbook looking one |
| 02:54.02 | DrZaius | the japanese one doesn't have wifi built in, does it? |
| 02:54.07 | warmi | CodeYoddler yeah |
| 02:54.11 | warmi | DrZaius I don't know |
| 02:54.25 | DrZaius | i don't think it does, but i don't remember looking for it, either |
| 02:54.50 | DrZaius | so, why's the 5600 going to be so much more expensive? |
| 02:55.01 | DrZaius | it doesn't look terribly impressive, compared with the 5500 |
| 02:55.09 | warmi | Xscale 400 etc .. |
| 02:55.13 | DrZaius | it's like 350 vs. 500 |
| 02:55.15 | warmi | you know, it is new :-) |
| 02:55.17 | DrZaius | big battery difference? |
| 02:55.27 | warmi | I think so - I don't know much about 5600 |
| 02:55.41 | DrZaius | cause they say the actual performance difference between the 206 arm and the xscale isn't that big |
| 02:55.45 | DrZaius | hmm |
| 02:56.04 | warmi | sometimes XScale 400 can actually be slower than 206 one |
| 02:56.04 | DrZaius | do you carry a recharger with you, when you use it to play mp3s? |
| 02:56.21 | DrZaius | and does it fit in a pocket ok? |
| 02:56.32 | CodeYoddler | warmi, depends on the program |
| 02:56.33 | warmi | no, I generally listen to it while commuting to work which is 2 hours both ways |
| 02:56.40 | DrZaius | it being either or both the zaurus and the charger |
| 02:56.46 | CodeYoddler | If it is optimized for the XScale then it is hella faster |
| 02:56.52 | DrZaius | oh. you need a jvc kdsx980 then :) those are sweet as hell |
| 02:56.58 | warmi | CodeYoddler: yeah ... and depends on the model - some PPC devices are slower some are much faster - go figure |
| 02:57.11 | DrZaius | cd-r mp3 player, w/a 1/8inch line in |
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| 02:57.25 | DrZaius | only costs like 150 or so online |
| 02:57.35 | warmi | mp3 player ? |
| 02:57.39 | DrZaius | yup |
| 02:57.46 | DrZaius | reads 'em off an iso9660 cd-r |
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| 02:57.52 | warmi | hehe .. but I already have one - I do have 2 256 MB CF careds |
| 02:57.57 | warmi | cards even |
| 02:58.18 | DrZaius | i've already got an mp3 playing boombox and (broken) pendrive |
| 02:58.32 | DrZaius | still bought the car one and still buying a zaurus (probably) |
| 02:58.44 | DrZaius | nice to just have it there when you get wherever you're going |
| 02:58.45 | warmi | heh |
| 02:59.08 | DrZaius | boombox for work, solid state for walking around, jvc for car, pc at home |
| 02:59.18 | warmi | yeah, you are covered |
| 02:59.20 | DrZaius | all cheap too. boombox was only 40 and uses the same cd-rs |
| 02:59.32 | DrZaius | pendrive was a little too cheap. $78 for a 128mb one |
| 02:59.48 | DrZaius | plastic casing fell apart right after i got it though, so i'm sending it back to get the z |
| 03:00.02 | warmi | hehe |
| 03:00.37 | warmi | you are aiming for 5500 ? or are you going to wait for 5600 ? |
| 03:00.53 | TrekCycling | when is the 5600 coming out? |
| 03:01.00 | DrZaius | probably 5500 |
| 03:01.04 | DrZaius | ya, when is it coming out? |
| 03:01.05 | warmi | they said in March |
| 03:01.10 | DrZaius | q1's almost gone |
| 03:01.10 | warmi | so I guess any day now |
| 03:01.11 | DrZaius | hmm |
| 03:01.17 | DrZaius | think it'll be affordable much? |
| 03:01.31 | DrZaius | and is doom optimized for xscale? :) i need doom... |
| 03:01.38 | warmi | no , it is not |
| 03:02.23 | warmi | I mean, everything that will run on 5600 as well as c700 still uses gcc 2.9x .. |
| 03:02.32 | DrZaius | will it be, or do they need to be like hand-assembled-optimized? |
| 03:02.34 | warmi | which doesn't know anything about Xscale |
| 03:02.37 | DrZaius | ah |
| 03:02.40 | DrZaius | it's a compiler thing? |
| 03:02.44 | warmi | yeah |
| 03:02.55 | DrZaius | when are they going to get gcc 3.x workin? |
| 03:02.56 | warmi | I am wondering how is my code going to run on XScale |
| 03:03.07 | warmi | I wrote entire thing in ASM |
| 03:03.11 | DrZaius | what'd you write? |
| 03:03.37 | TrekCycling | does that mean the 5500 will run better theoretically? |
| 03:03.37 | warmi | a class for fast 2d animation etc .. |
| 03:03.48 | warmi | http://killefiz.de/zaurus/showdetail.php?app=914 |
| 03:03.57 | warmi | TrekCycling : I am not sure what you mean ? |
| 03:04.24 | TrekCycling | well, the pocketpcs that are x-scale supposedly run slower |
| 03:04.36 | warmi | yeah, but not all of them |
| 03:04.40 | TrekCycling | because of the lack of optimization |
| 03:04.49 | warmi | the funny thing is that some of them are much slower than others despite using the same CPU |
| 03:04.53 | warmi | I am still puzzled by that |
| 03:05.05 | warmi | ( I got that info from PPC developers boards) |
| 03:05.31 | warmi | http://forums.pocketmatrix.com/ |
| 03:05.33 | TrekCycling | huh |
| 03:05.33 | warmi | if anyone cares |
| 03:05.39 | TrekCycling | guess we'll see |
| 03:06.12 | warmi | I don't have any XScale device so I can't really say ... |
| 03:06.16 | TrekCycling | I'll probably wait. I like my 5500. |
| 03:06.23 | warmi | wait for what ? |
| 03:06.27 | warmi | C 700 ? |
| 03:06.28 | TrekCycling | I just want a new ROM |
| 03:06.42 | TrekCycling | no, wait to see how people like the 5600 |
| 03:07.10 | TrekCycling | I'm not holding my breath on the C700 |
| 03:07.10 | warmi | yeah ... |
| 03:07.16 | warmi | I do :-) |
| 03:07.28 | kergoth | TrekCycling: not holding your breath in what way? |
| 03:07.37 | *** join/#zaurus Leaves (Leif@24.141.185.136) |
| 03:07.41 | TrekCycling | not a good idea, you might pass out. :) |
| 03:07.49 | kergoth | heh |
| 03:07.51 | kergoth | i mean, the c700 |
| 03:07.55 | kergoth | mine works fine |
| 03:08.04 | warmi | http://forums.pocketmatrix.com/viewtopic.php?t=6535&highlight=xscale+slow |
| 03:08.04 | kergoth | and optimized OZ roms built for it with gcc3 are undereway |
| 03:08.07 | DrZaius | TrekCycling: would you bother to wait for the 5600 if you didn't have the 5500 yet? |
| 03:08.09 | kergoth | underway, rather |
| 03:08.15 | kergoth | same for the b500/5600 |
| 03:08.32 | TrekCycling | kergoth: I want the C700 badly. I'm a clamshell guy. I just don't think it's ever coming to the US |
| 03:08.49 | TrekCycling | I have a 5500, Dr |
| 03:09.05 | DrZaius | how much do you think the 5600'll cost when it gets here? not retail, but real cost. people likely to get a decent price on it when it first hits? |
| 03:09.22 | DrZaius | yup. i just meant, if you didn't have the 5500, would you wait till the 5600 hit now? |
| 03:09.28 | TrekCycling | oh |
| 03:09.45 | TrekCycling | probably, if it's only a month |
| 03:09.49 | DrZaius | having a hard time making up my mind. i really want vim in my pocket. this paper and pen stuff's not intuitive at all |
| 03:09.57 | TrekCycling | if only for the new rom |
| 03:09.58 | *** join/#zaurus xzcvczx (~hazard@210-86-39-26.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
| 03:10.11 | DrZaius | what's cool about the new rom? |
| 03:10.13 | warmi | TrekCycling : what's in it ? |
| 03:10.15 | kergoth | TrekCycling: you can buy them here now, just imported |
| 03:10.17 | TrekCycling | but it's hard to say. |
| 03:10.20 | kergoth | TrekCycling: works quite well |
| 03:10.34 | DrZaius | you don't think the stuff'll be backported/released for the 5500? |
| 03:10.42 | warmi | kergoth : have you tried any of Neo games on your C700 yet ? |
| 03:10.54 | TrekCycling | they won't say, so I don't know |
| 03:11.06 | *** join/#zaurus Aimio (~fthf@adsl-189-145.iomart.com) |
| 03:11.38 | DrZaius | what's neo? |
| 03:11.41 | kergoth | qtopia 1.6 isnt _that_ spectacular |
| 03:11.41 | *** join/#zaurus treke|laptop (~ggilbert@lsanca2-ar29-4-41-065-184.lsanca2.elnk.dsl.genuity.net) |
| 03:11.43 | kergoth | heh |
| 03:11.49 | kergoth | DrZaius: neo is the developer of eongames.com |
| 03:11.54 | TrekCycling | The reason I'm looking forward to a new ROM is bug fixes, better kernel (i.e. better power management) |
| 03:12.05 | warmi | www.eongames.com |
| 03:12.15 | DrZaius | they any good? |
| 03:12.29 | warmi | DrZaius : well, depends what you like :-) |
| 03:12.30 | Aimio | me too, very much. atm with qtopiaDesktop + sharp rom I don't trust my zarus |
| 03:12.50 | *** join/#zaurus Neo|Laptop (~neotron@12-231-103-203.client.attbi.com) |
| 03:12.58 | warmi | TrekCycling : I thought they fixed power problems with 5500 already .. |
| 03:13.00 | TrekCycling | i know, kergoth. if OZ was stable and supported the cwaig keyboard driver I'd jump in a heartbeat |
| 03:13.11 | DrZaius | i like final fantasy |
| 03:13.12 | kergoth | heh |
| 03:13.20 | kergoth | TrekCycling: email me information about the keyboard, if nothing else i'll write a driver. |
| 03:13.24 | kergoth | not a biggie |
| 03:13.25 | DrZaius | i can't wait to get (another) nes emulator in my pocket ;) |
| 03:13.48 | TrekCycling | they didn't fix power problems on mine. :) |
| 03:13.50 | DrZaius | already got a gba, but it's a pain to have to haul that, a laptop, an mp3 player, and a ti86 around |
| 03:13.59 | *** join/#zaurus Bala (~Rusaw@hsdbsk142-165-147-163.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 03:14.01 | TrekCycling | still jumps from full to empty |
| 03:14.09 | kergoth | TrekCycling: heh, OZ has battery percentage accurate within 4% |
| 03:14.13 | kergoth | TrekCycling: ;) |
| 03:14.16 | kergoth | even in 2.4.6 |
| 03:14.22 | kergoth | as of rc1 |
| 03:14.25 | warmi | TrekCycling : uh , that sucks then |
| 03:14.29 | kergoth | thanks to tik's wonderful battery interpolation code |
| 03:14.31 | warmi | completely unusable |
| 03:14.39 | TrekCycling | I know. I just wish it was stable |
| 03:14.40 | warmi | well, I already know how long will my Z last :-) |
| 03:14.50 | kergoth | TrekCycling: as i said, its opie's stability thats the issue |
| 03:14.55 | kergoth | TrekCycling: i thought you were an X guy? |
| 03:15.00 | kergoth | TrekCycling: X works just fine |
| 03:15.25 | TrekCycling | I am an X gut, except that all the good apps are out for Opie. |
| 03:15.29 | DrZaius | oz isn't stable? |
| 03:15.37 | warmi | TrekCycling : you run X on your Z ? |
| 03:15.41 | TrekCycling | plus I need somehwat of a PIM |
| 03:15.48 | TrekCycling | no I don't run it. |
| 03:16.07 | TrekCycling | I just expressed an interest in it earlier |
| 03:16.08 | kergoth | DrZaius: opie occasionally crashes |
| 03:16.17 | TrekCycling | kergoth has a good memory |
| 03:16.20 | kergoth | DrZaius: though it doesnt happen much nowadays |
| 03:16.27 | DrZaius | has it always crashed, or just the latest build? |
| 03:16.29 | DrZaius | oh |
| 03:16.34 | kergoth | opie is in active development |
| 03:16.37 | kergoth | and it has never released |
| 03:16.43 | kergoth | it could explode in my face tomorrow for all i know :) |
| 03:16.45 | warmi | there is a guy who ported whole bunch of emulators to the zaurus - I mean not really ported , he just recompiled them to run under X on the zaurus |
| 03:16.50 | warmi | I thought perhaps it was you |
| 03:17.17 | TrekCycling | oh, not me |
| 03:17.45 | TrekCycling | I don't have time for any side development yet |
| 03:18.34 | warmi | kergoth: I guess for the time being one could run original qpe on top of your kernel :-) |
| 03:19.20 | TrekCycling | brb |
| 03:19.22 | Aimio | I can't use opie because no CF atm. So it's not much more stable than sharp rom then? Anyone else had sync disasters with qtopiaDesktop? |
| 03:19.26 | kergoth | warmi: I'm tempted to add qtopia 1.6 as an option |
| 03:19.37 | kergoth | Aimio: qtopiadesktop works fine, but current cvs TODO from opie has sync bugs |
| 03:19.41 | kergoth | Aimio: everything else syncs fine |
| 03:19.49 | *** join/#zaurus TrekCycling (~prestonc@12-224-247-37.client.attbi.com) |
| 03:19.59 | DrZaius | what's cf atm? |
| 03:20.04 | kergoth | http://www.mandrake.net/images/supercoder.jpg <-courtesy of raster |
| 03:20.05 | kergoth | lmao |
| 03:20.09 | TrekCycling | back |
| 03:20.15 | Aimio | CF=compact flash atm = at the moment |
| 03:20.21 | TrekCycling | fingers were getting cramped on the Z |
| 03:20.40 | DrZaius | no cf at all? |
| 03:21.07 | treke|laptop | DrZaius: he has half a compact flash card |
| 03:21.23 | Aimio | nope :/ got a SmartMedia card. Waiting for MMC support so I can keep CF slot for WI-FI |
| 03:21.26 | raster | kergoth: its good isn't it? :) |
| 03:21.28 | DrZaius | oh |
| 03:21.34 | DrZaius | i see |
| 03:21.38 | kergoth | raster: yea, funny as hell |
| 03:21.43 | Bala | whats a good brand of SD card to buy? |
| 03:21.49 | Bala | for the Z |
| 03:21.55 | TrekCycling | what's the command for seeing stuff written recently in IRC |
| 03:21.55 | DrZaius | or more important, what's a bad brand of sd card to buy? |
| 03:22.19 | kergoth | DrZaius: _avoid_ sandisk |
| 03:22.23 | kergoth | everything else you should be fine |
| 03:22.35 | warmi | hehehe |
| 03:23.33 | TrekCycling | looks like (on the Sharp DevNet Forums) Pocketop support is a ways away for OpenZaurus |
| 03:24.11 | kergoth | TrekCycling: pocketop is an IR keyboard? |
| 03:24.19 | TrekCycling | yeah |
| 03:24.21 | kergoth | TrekCycling: then they're full of shit |
| 03:24.33 | kergoth | find me more info on the device, i'll write the driver |
| 03:24.34 | kergoth | or rather |
| 03:24.39 | kergoth | i'll add it to my ever growing TODO |
| 03:24.52 | TrekCycling | the site says that you said it's a kernel problem. :-) |
| 03:24.53 | warmi | kergoth : I think that "driver" was written in python |
| 03:24.57 | warmi | or something like that |
| 03:25.15 | TrekCycling | I think that's a different driver |
| 03:25.23 | TrekCycling | I don't use python and it works fine for me. |
| 03:25.52 | TrekCycling | it's an actual input panel |
| 03:26.00 | warmi | yeah, there are two different drivers floating around |
| 03:26.06 | TrekCycling | yeah |
| 03:26.33 | kergoth | TrekCycling: theres the lirc inputmethod, that works fine |
| 03:26.44 | kergoth | TrekCycling: the real solution is to write a new kernel driver for it, to do it properly |
| 03:27.08 | TrekCycling | I don't care about proper, though. I care about what works. :-) |
| 03:27.22 | kergoth | then lirc does the job |
| 03:27.33 | kergoth | the issue is those keyboards use commercial IR, not irda |
| 03:28.20 | kergoth | so it needs to be handled a bit differently |
| 03:28.21 | kergoth | lirc knows how |
| 03:33.22 | Aimio | differently as in license or tech? |
| 03:34.16 | kergoth | differently in tech |
| 03:39.36 | *** join/#zaurus mark (~mark@s.westcott.freeuk.com) |
| 03:40.21 | mewyn` | ugh |
| 03:42.16 | mark | meh. its 4:45am and i cant sleep |
| 03:42.47 | mewyn` | at this point. screw it |
| 03:42.59 | warmi | hehehe |
| 03:43.06 | warmi | you are doomed anyway |
| 03:43.40 | mewyn` | rest for a while, then go for a jog or something |
| 03:44.38 | mewyn` | warmi: no further word at the trib? |
| 03:45.02 | warmi | nothing from Wolak yet |
| 03:45.23 | warmi | with whom ? |
| 03:45.32 | mewyn` | with $$$. |
| 03:45.41 | mewyn` | my parents are running low |
| 03:45.44 | mewyn` | and i'm out |
| 03:46.25 | warmi | yeah, that sucks indeed |
| 03:46.26 | *** join/#zaurus VMan (~nothere@ip68-97-134-38.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 03:51.29 | mark | are we gonna get a new version of Opera for the Z with this 'small screen rendering'? |
| 03:51.30 | mewyn` | that and now i need to save up for my trip to disney world |
| 03:52.42 | DrZaius | mewyn: disney world's not worth it |
| 03:52.55 | DrZaius | i mean, it would be, but that money can be spent on electronics too, remember |
| 03:53.52 | mewyn` | bah |
| 03:54.31 | mewyn` | we are taking a friend who has never really gone there, but loves the disney movies, and she's gonna be cooped up in a rehab hospital for the next six months |
| 03:56.55 | DrZaius | ouch |
| 03:57.00 | DrZaius | n/m. that sounds nice |
| 03:58.12 | mewyn` | that's what i thought! :P |
| 03:58.13 | mewyn` | hehe |
| 03:58.16 | treke|laptop | mark: probably not |
| 03:59.10 | *** join/#zaurus MEGA|Home (~megastep@home.megastep.org) |
| 03:59.27 | mewyn` | ? |
| 03:59.57 | treke|laptop | mewyn`: he asked if the new opera was going to be released to z owners |
| 04:00.05 | mewyn` | ah |
| 04:00.19 | TrekCycling | who knows. We'd need a new ROM for that, right? |
| 04:00.51 | treke|laptop | TrekCycling: right, but I'm guessing a new rom would either use netfront or the old opera |
| 04:03.30 | mark | hmm, shame |
| 04:04.52 | mewyn` | ipkg is a bitch |
| 04:05.05 | kergoth | owww |
| 04:05.13 | kergoth | now that was just mean :) |
| 04:05.15 | treke|laptop | yeah it was. |
| 04:05.19 | treke|laptop | but too bad |
| 04:08.19 | mewyn` | ~lart ipkg |
| 04:08.22 | treke|laptop | now someone make me dinner |
| 04:08.27 | warmi | well, you all don't know how good ipkg really is ... you wanna try cab files on PocketPC ? |
| 04:08.32 | warmi | :-) |
| 04:08.38 | chouimat | treke|home: delevery |
| 04:08.39 | mewyn` | ipkg could be better |
| 04:09.08 | treke|laptop | mewyn`: really? |
| 04:09.16 | mewyn` | yah. |
| 04:09.24 | treke|laptop | I thought it was perfect |
| 04:09.30 | mewyn` | :P |
| 04:09.35 | warmi | I kid you not - when I ported Puzz-le to ppc , creating cab files was the most terrible experience of the entire process |
| 04:09.42 | mewyn` | ~lart treke|laptop |
| 04:09.57 | treke|laptop | ~lart mewyn` |
| 04:10.10 | TrekCycling | yeah, ipkg is way easier than cab files |
| 04:11.24 | warmi | with cab files you need to create big ass template - in it you can't just list directories, you need to list every damn file |
| 04:11.32 | warmi | man, it is just nasty |
| 04:11.38 | mewyn` | http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2914228248&category=1469 |
| 04:11.42 | mewyn` | freaky |
| 04:11.49 | chouimat | http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/62/fiuczynskis_headless_torso.html |
| 04:11.56 | chouimat | excelllent music |
| 04:12.03 | *** join/#zaurus Taim (~taim@12-226-34-51.client.attbi.com) |
| 04:12.25 | warmi | mewyn heheheh |
| 04:12.41 | mewyn` | one helova cheeto |
| 04:14.21 | mewyn` | damnit. why am i watching commercials. |
| 04:30.09 | kergoth | argh |
| 04:30.12 | kergoth | automake blows |
| 04:30.44 | Vhalros | Yes, yes it does. |
| 04:30.44 | kergoth | oGMo: where does it obtain @LIBOBJS@? |
| 04:30.52 | mewyn` | autoconf makes configure scritps, right? |
| 04:31.12 | kergoth | yep |
| 04:31.24 | Vhalros | Any one have any luck getting opie-remote to work? |
| 04:31.36 | mewyn` | what does automake make? |
| 04:31.58 | Vhalros | configure.in's I think... |
| 04:32.16 | Vhalros | Or maybe makefile.am's, or some other horrible thing :) |
| 04:32.18 | kergoth | no, automake makes Makefile.in's from Makefile.am's |
| 04:32.32 | kergoth | then configure makes Makefiles from Makefile.in's |
| 04:32.34 | kergoth | its ugly shit |
| 04:35.40 | Vhalros | Has any one tried opie-remote? For some reason, if lircd is started, opie-remote will kill lircd and then crash... |
| 04:39.17 | Vhalros | It would be so nice to use this to fiddle with my TV, even if the range is only like 3 feet :) |
| 04:50.32 | *** join/#zaurus xzcvczx (~hazard@210-55-152-179.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
| 04:55.38 | *** join/#zaurus DavvOnZ (~zic@new-65-28-197-65.new.rr.com) |
| 04:56.16 | *** join/#zaurus Averin (~Averin@148.243.211.1) |
| 05:00.12 | Averin | have anyone did a HMD project on Zaurus? |
| 05:01.21 | oGMo | kergoth: hrm, hang on |
| 05:01.35 | oGMo | kergoth: that might not be magic, i forget |
| 05:01.50 | oGMo | no, it's builtin |
| 05:02.35 | oGMo | kergoth: it looks like a few different things add .o files to it |
| 05:02.42 | kergoth | hmm |
| 05:02.43 | kergoth | odd |
| 05:03.04 | kergoth | dealing with automake versioning issues |
| 05:03.10 | oGMo | hmm |
| 05:03.11 | kergoth | ipkg builds with 1.4 only |
| 05:03.14 | kergoth | fails badly on 1.7 |
| 05:03.25 | kergoth | i gave up for now |
| 05:03.26 | kergoth | heh |
| 05:03.37 | oGMo | 1.7? |
| 05:03.47 | oGMo | that's quite new |
| 05:03.57 | oGMo | so new i didn't even know it existed! ;) |
| 05:04.05 | oGMo | kergoth: tried with the latest 1.6? |
| 05:04.19 | kergoth | nah, i'll fuck with it again later |
| 05:04.22 | oGMo | k |
| 05:04.31 | oGMo | LIBOBJS might have been deprecated or something, dunno |
| 05:04.35 | oGMo | i only have 1.6 something here |
| 05:10.59 | *** join/#zaurus [MiniMe] (~[MiniMe]@216-73-109-110.ocdc-01.net) |
| 05:11.33 | [MiniMe] | hi hi hi |
| 05:11.42 | kergoth | [MiniMe]: yo |
| 05:12.21 | [MiniMe] | hey kergoth |
| 05:12.51 | [MiniMe] | man that was fun |
| 05:14.57 | kergoth | what was/ |
| 05:17.35 | [MiniMe] | I went shooting pistols |
| 05:18.28 | kergoth | ah |
| 05:18.45 | [MiniMe] | geeks and guns |
| 05:18.54 | _Psycho | hey kergoth |
| 05:18.54 | [MiniMe] | a winning co,bo |
| 05:18.59 | _Psycho | i have a bad news for you |
| 05:19.16 | _Psycho | my c700 is already shipped =p |
| 05:20.08 | [MiniMe] | I want a H&K .45 |
| 05:23.47 | Vhalros | Hmm... |
| 05:36.07 | *** join/#zaurus effy-kun (~none@216.251.50.73) |
| 05:49.43 | *** join/#zaurus DavvOnZ (~zic@new-65-28-197-65.new.rr.com) |
| 05:54.10 | chouimat | Cloudchaser_: sorry to have offended you |
| 05:54.31 | Cloudchaser | you and jason both |
| 05:54.35 | Cloudchaser | and its not the first time |
| 05:54.40 | Cloudchaser | but its the last time cause i'm gone |
| 05:54.49 | chouimat | Cloudchaser: I |
| 05:54.57 | chouimat | Cloudchaser: I'm very sorry ... |
| 05:55.08 | Cloudchaser | theres' absolutely no reason to talk like that in a linux developer channel |
| 05:55.33 | chouimat | Cloudchaser_: ok .. I won't say anything more |
| 05:56.44 | JasonNJ | cloud: we're sorry |
| 05:56.57 | JasonNJ | we sometimes talk about offcollor shit in #openembedded |
| 05:57.06 | Cloudchaser | off color is one thing |
| 05:57.15 | Cloudchaser | constant references to women as sex objects is another |
| 05:57.26 | Cloudchaser | personally i don't give a shit about your sex lives |
| 05:57.40 | JasonNJ | well. Bring more women and talk about guys as sex objects then! |
| 05:57.53 | JasonNJ | Its not our fault the industry is sexually lopsided! |
| 05:58.30 | JasonNJ | look, bring it up with Human Resources, and we'll have a sensitivity class. |
| 05:58.44 | chouimat | Cloudchaser: I was speaking about a tv show the air at 1h00pm and 12h00am here with a sexologist and that get way to far of that ... |
| 05:59.14 | JasonNJ | cloud: seriously, we try not to get sick during business hours. |
| 05:59.21 | JasonNJ | but come on, its after midnight |
| 05:59.25 | *** part/#zaurus Cloudchaser (~Cloudchas@ool-435684aa.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 05:59.47 | JasonNJ | I KNEW once we started talking about wine it would get out of hand. |
| 06:00.12 | mewyn | and people wonder why this is a lobsided industry |
| 06:00.34 | JasonNJ | what, besides the fact that chicks dont have it in their blood to be true techies? |
| 06:00.37 | chouimat | mewyn: just look at the ibot log of #openembedded |
| 06:00.42 | *** join/#zaurus biafradog (~biafradog@Toronto-HSE-ppp3718350.sympatico.ca) |
| 06:00.59 | mewyn | i don't think i want to |
| 06:01.17 | JasonNJ | gee, I'm afraid she might report me to sharp and get me fired. |
| 06:01.25 | JasonNJ | Oh wait, I dont work for Sharp. :) |
| 06:01.37 | JasonNJ | hahaahahahahaha |
| 06:02.02 | chouimat | JasonNJ: :) |
| 06:02.08 | treke|laptop | man your loving this unemployment |
| 06:02.20 | JasonNJ | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:02.42 | effy-kun | you know, for someone who grew up in a family of women, I find it hard to believe a woman would be so hypocritical as to get angry at a man for talking about women in a sexual manner. |
| 06:02.43 | effy-kun | ;) |
| 06:02.45 | JasonNJ | hahahahahaha |
| 06:03.06 | JasonNJ | effy: women are WORSE than men in this regard |
| 06:03.18 | JasonNJ | they are just as raunchy |
| 06:03.18 | effy-kun | oh, trust me, they definitely can be |
| 06:03.58 | chouimat | effy-kun: just look at all those teen that wear sexy clothes come on we're not made of wood |
| 06:04.29 | treke|laptop | at least not completly... |
| 06:04.31 | effy-kun | nah, it's not a matter of how they dress, it's a matter of how they talk |
| 06:04.38 | JasonNJ | yes |
| 06:04.42 | JasonNJ | totally how they talk |
| 06:06.03 | gaurdian | JasonNJ , you are the most unprofessional piece of shit who thinks they are a developer I have ever listened to. No wonder Sharp fired youre lame ass. Youre arrogant, always assume youre right |
| 06:06.14 | JasonNJ | hahahaahah |
| 06:06.20 | gaurdian | go ahead an op and boot me, because that what youll do |
| 06:06.22 | effy-kun | if Cloud doesnt like it, she doesnt have to go around getting all upset about it. |
| 06:06.27 | effy-kun | just ignore it |
| 06:06.28 | chouimat | JasonNJ: I was working at home(school stuff) and my ex-wife was speaking with some of her friend and they were speaking about a new boyfriend that one of those just had a nigh of sex with ... they wanted to know every details |
| 06:07.11 | JasonNJ | gaurdian: they let me go because the whole damn Zaurus division is going under, not because I am unprofessional |
| 06:07.22 | JasonNJ | if anything, I built their entire dev program |
| 06:07.25 | mewyn | jason, effy: i sympothize with cloud, i don't like it either. |
| 06:07.26 | gaurdian | oh really... |
| 06:07.26 | JasonNJ | out of NOTHING |
| 06:07.29 | effy-kun | though, this isnt exactly a sex channel, so it isnt exactly like we should go into all that ;) |
| 06:08.01 | JasonNJ | gaurdian: its 1am, get a life |
| 06:08.07 | effy-kun | mewyn: complain about talking about sex in a channel for the Zaurus, not about men talking about women in a sexual sense |
| 06:08.19 | gaurdian | I have one....and you ? |
| 06:08.44 | mewyn | effy: i don't think people should be talking about others in a sexual sense in a public place. |
| 06:08.51 | mewyn | it's bound to upset someone |
| 06:09.06 | chouimat | mewyn: I understand your point but you know how easy a discussion can get out of hand on IRC |
| 06:09.07 | effy-kun | hmmmm, true, but then again, there are lots of public places people do do that |
| 06:09.17 | JasonNJ | gaurdian: obviously, I have no life, but I have an excuse, I am married |
| 06:09.22 | mspencer | My batteries shipped! |
| 06:09.26 | effy-kun | there isnt any unwritten rule disallowing it here |
| 06:09.28 | chouimat | JasonNJ: lol |
| 06:09.36 | mewyn | mspencer: cool |
| 06:09.42 | mspencer | (my eight 9000 mAh D cell batteries, for my Zaurus I don't have yet :) ) |
| 06:10.04 | mewyn | mspencer: gonna build one of those regulators |
| 06:10.21 | chouimat | I wonder what is worst joke about the french that surrender or talking about sex using the real term |
| 06:10.34 | gaurdian | mspencer , let me know how that pack works out |
| 06:10.49 | mspencer | actually, others say they do just fine with just the batteries, and the voltage/discharge curve for NiMH is similar enough to Lithium Ion... |
| 06:10.51 | mspencer | I will :) |
| 06:10.57 | treke|laptop | chouimat: french jokes are never bad |
| 06:11.21 | chouimat | treke|laptop: I know but you see my point? |
| 06:11.29 | mewyn | mspencer: don't put them in parallel, though, you can easily mess them up |
| 06:12.01 | gaurdian | I might take a shot at the AAA pack we disscussed the other night |
| 06:12.04 | mspencer | I've consulted some experts on that -- and opinions are divided. :) |
| 06:12.27 | mspencer | I'm seriously considering your advice, mewyn, and I'm definitely not going to use both packs at the same time without doing lots of testing... |
| 06:12.47 | mspencer | so I appreciate your advice, I'm just being careful. :) |
| 06:12.58 | mspencer | Some friends seem to think a pair of diodes would prevent the problem, but they'd cause a voltage drop. |
| 06:13.11 | mewyn | mspencer: any fluxuations in output will lead the lower battery to be used as a resistor |
| 06:13.31 | mewyn | diodes may help, but i'd still reccomend the regulated pack |
| 06:13.45 | mewyn | that way you can use all the batteries |
| 06:13.46 | mspencer | Hmm, that's an effect I hadn't thought of -- fluctuations in output? |
| 06:14.27 | JasonNJ | chouimat: americans are uptight, what the hell can I say |
| 06:14.29 | mspencer | So if the net drain from both batteries is 0.5 amps each pack, but the voltage difference between batteries is 0.01v and there's half an ohm in the circuit formed by the packs... |
| 06:14.35 | mewyn | battery chemistry and temp will effect them |
| 06:14.36 | mspencer | damn straight we are! :) |
| 06:14.53 | chouimat | JasonNJ: I know that ... fucking religion |
| 06:15.11 | JasonNJ | but, you want us to bomb someone, we're the guys for the job |
| 06:15.21 | mspencer | then the pack will still deliver half an amp per pack, but it'll be slightly different -- maybe 520 mA from one pack and 480 mA from the other pack. |
| 06:15.34 | chouimat | JasonNJ: hehe ... it's the fault of the mayflower .... |
| 06:15.36 | treke|zzzz | JasonNJ: damn straight |
| 06:15.42 | mspencer | I don't think that'll ruin the lesser pack...its ground will have changed a bit, that's all... |
| 06:15.45 | treke|zzzz | JasonNJ: aint no one busts a cap better than we do |
| 06:16.10 | mewyn | actually, if it's using it as a resistor, it will be dissapating the electricity as heat |
| 06:16.15 | mspencer | do you think the chemical fluctuations would be more significant than 0.01v ? |
| 06:16.27 | mspencer | Hmm...it sounds like I don't understand the effect that well... |
| 06:16.30 | mewyn | they could be as significant as .05 |
| 06:16.44 | chouimat | JasonNJ: the only thing that offend me is being called david while being ... well you know |
| 06:16.46 | JasonNJ | treke: only our culture can invent something as beautiful as the BLU-82 |
| 06:16.53 | mewyn | and if a pack gets heated up it's effecincy drops, and it starts a chain reaction |
| 06:16.59 | chouimat | blu-82? |
| 06:17.01 | mspencer | hmm...with a half ohm resistance in the whole pack, that would mean one battery would discharge ... |
| 06:17.06 | mspencer | WAITaminute... |
| 06:17.16 | mspencer | Isn't that how battery chargers work? They use the battery pack as a resistor? :) |
| 06:17.20 | JasonNJ | chou: biggest conventional bomb in the world, 15,000lbs |
| 06:17.26 | chouimat | ok |
| 06:17.30 | JasonNJ | requires a cargo plane to deploy |
| 06:17.34 | mewyn | you will most likely drain one pack quickly, both would heat up, and they could explode |
| 06:17.35 | JasonNJ | its too BIG for a bomber |
| 06:17.40 | mewyn | mspencer: kinda |
| 06:17.45 | chouimat | ok that one |
| 06:18.28 | mspencer | They can't explode if I have 15A fuses between them. Both batteries are manufacturer-rated for better than 1C discharge rates, and it'd take 18 amps (well past when the fuses would blow) to reach 1C. |
| 06:18.42 | mewyn | ok |
| 06:18.50 | JasonNJ | ms: you know, this problem can be solved by getting a LAPTOP |
| 06:18.52 | mewyn | you'd still drain one |
| 06:18.57 | mewyn | into the other |
| 06:19.15 | mewyn | but it wouldn't take a charge, because NiMH bats take CA, not CV charging. |
| 06:19.16 | mspencer | Right. Is that different than one being a battery charger and the other getting topped off a bit? |
| 06:19.33 | mewyn | and it requires voltage to be above nominal |
| 06:19.38 | mspencer | Oh yeah, that's right... |
| 06:20.01 | mspencer | I forgot about that. You charge a 1.2 volt pack at something like 2.5 volts... |
| 06:20.04 | JasonNJ | I really dont understand the attraction to the C700 |
| 06:20.14 | mspencer | You don't have to :) |
| 06:20.21 | mewyn | it's never a good idea to put batts in parallel |
| 06:20.28 | treke|zzzz | JasonNJ: I think its the big keyboard |
| 06:20.31 | JasonNJ | ms: yeah, I dont get paid to try anymore |
| 06:20.45 | chouimat | JasonNJ: I would prefer have opie on dreamcast than having a c700 |
| 06:21.13 | treke|zzzz | JasonNJ: I've always liked the landscape+keyboard formfactor, the option of both sounds great to me |
| 06:21.18 | JasonNJ | it is the most screwed up machine in existence |
| 06:21.22 | mspencer | http://www.powerstream.com/BPD.htm |
| 06:21.38 | mspencer | Generally batteries are best used in series, not in parallel. This is because keeping the battery pack equally yoked during repeated charge and discharge conditions can be a problem. |
| 06:21.38 | chouimat | btw if some of you are planning summer vacation in quebec city I know some good place |
| 06:21.41 | JasonNJ | they are only now just trying to figure out how to correct its faults when they ship it in the US |
| 06:21.54 | mspencer | So a good approach is to choose the cells that will give you the capacity and current that you need and put them in series to get the voltage you need. |
| 06:21.54 | mspencer | However, this is not always possible, and parallel and even series + parallel packs are made every day. |
| 06:22.37 | mewyn | yes, but they need to be closely monitored to work properly |
| 06:22.47 | mspencer | (and that page just leaves it at that -- I'm worried about that 'equally yoked' thing. It sounds like mewyn is mostly right...) |
| 06:23.12 | mewyn | it's much easier to do li-ion in parallel because of the high internal resistance |
| 06:23.13 | mspencer | (kinda like when they tell you to never put metal in the microwave -- it's because the conditions at which metal can safely be put in the microwave are too complex for most people.) |
| 06:23.35 | mewyn | but NiMH have a very low internal resistance, and they can very easily drain eachother |
| 06:23.46 | mspencer | Well, even though I've got this nice Y adapter, I'll probably just carry both packs but use one at a time until I figure out a better solution :) |
| 06:24.00 | mewyn | do the regulator |
| 06:24.02 | kergoth | JasonNJ: its the formfactor. the fact that qtopia 1.6 sucks and its apps load dog slow isnt quite so apparent :) |
| 06:24.09 | mewyn | best solution evah! |
| 06:24.27 | mspencer | True. I understand and appreciate that you're trying to save me from a very expensive mistake -- the batteries alone, in this capacity, cost me $123 including shipping! |
| 06:25.02 | mewyn | mspencer: plus if you use a regulator, if you design a proper switching, it won't let you go below Vmin |
| 06:25.14 | mspencer | cool :) |
| 06:25.53 | mewyn | in the design of the regulator, you'd want to have Vmin be 1x cell count |
| 06:26.14 | kergoth | JasonNJ: myself, i'll be using a fully optimized gcc3 OZ rom on the c700, with the kernel's cache errata disabled.. i'm ballsy, i can risk some occasional data loss.. hehe |
| 06:26.16 | mspencer | One electronics-savvy friend said something about a regulator just burning off whatever voltage it didn't need...but... |
| 06:26.37 | mspencer | I remember you already told me about linear and switching regulators. |
| 06:26.55 | mewyn | switchings definatly don't |
| 06:26.56 | mspencer | Is it just linear regulators that act the way you suggested, and that's why you need the heat sink? |
| 06:27.04 | JasonNJ | what kind of performance are you seeing with the optimized rom? |
| 06:27.05 | mewyn | yah |
| 06:27.06 | mspencer | erm the way HE suggested |
| 06:27.22 | mewyn | linears are very innefficent |
| 06:27.27 | JasonNJ | any improvement with the xscale specific compiler flags? |
| 06:27.36 | mewyn | switching typically gets you about 85% |
| 06:27.51 | kergoth | JasonNJ: hard to say, since i havent fucked with opie much on it yet, still finishing the qt/e alterations |
| 06:27.54 | mspencer | and linear just burns off whatever excess voltage there is? :) |
| 06:28.03 | kergoth | JasonNJ: i think prelink will really help the launch time issues |
| 06:28.08 | mewyn | i think for the most part |
| 06:28.14 | mewyn | i think it tries to control |
| 06:28.17 | mewyn | but a lot is lost |
| 06:28.20 | mewyn | as heat |
| 06:28.24 | mspencer | (so powering 5V with 12V would waste over 50%...) |
| 06:28.29 | JasonNJ | yeah but the b step still sucks balls |
| 06:28.43 | JasonNJ | the whole memory speed problems really hinder the hardware |
| 06:29.15 | mspencer | Just as long as I can take it to class and write AND compile C++ programs on it, at a speed at least comparable to my pentium 75 (mspencer.net) at home, I'm happy :) |
| 06:29.30 | mewyn | http://www.national.com/appinfo/power/0,1768,318,00.html |
| 06:29.44 | mspencer | (don't worry -- mspencer.net is a pentium 75, but michael.mspencer.net is an Athlon XP 2000+ :) ) |
| 06:29.44 | kergoth | JasonNJ: yeah. sukoshi was playing with a kernel w/ the cache errata workarounds disabled on his b500, he said the difference was just jawdropping, but its a risky move |
| 06:29.48 | mewyn | mspencer: you'll need a lot of storage to produce C++ progs on it |
| 06:29.56 | mspencer | 200 MB? |
| 06:30.29 | JasonNJ | I cant beleive Intel shipped that chip |
| 06:30.45 | JasonNJ | its mind blowing how fucked up intel is now in every aspect of their business |
| 06:30.50 | mewyn | mspencer: i'd strongly reccomend a uDrive |
| 06:30.52 | kergoth | JasonNJ: no kidding |
| 06:30.53 | JasonNJ | I used to yell at them weekly |
| 06:31.02 | mspencer | what's a uDrive? |
| 06:31.06 | mewyn | micro drive |
| 06:31.12 | kergoth | heh, i mean, how many chip revisions does it take to make something not suck horribly? really? |
| 06:31.14 | JasonNJ | power hog |
| 06:31.16 | kergoth | heh |
| 06:31.20 | mewyn | too lazy to find the micro :) |
| 06:31.22 | JasonNJ | its a 300 dollar battery drainer |
| 06:31.37 | mewyn | if he has this huge battery pack, it ain't a problem :) |
| 06:31.42 | kergoth | heh |
| 06:31.48 | mspencer | hey, I've got batteries to drain! :) |
| 06:31.49 | kergoth | myself, i'm almost always tethered to a wall |
| 06:31.59 | mspencer | yeah, I was definitely thinking microdrive :) |
| 06:32.10 | kergoth | so the c700 is a great unit for me, and i know i can risk the performance bits, so its fun to fuck around with |
| 06:32.10 | mewyn | i need something light and long ass battery life |
| 06:32.11 | mspencer | are there 320 MB SD cards? (don't know where I came up with that) |
| 06:32.14 | mewyn | yah |
| 06:32.21 | mewyn | oh, not 320 sd |
| 06:32.24 | mewyn | 512 sd |
| 06:32.33 | mspencer | just 256 and the horribly expensive 512's? |
| 06:32.35 | JasonNJ | SD blows too |
| 06:32.44 | mspencer | yeah, but it frees up the wifi card slot :) |
| 06:32.49 | JasonNJ | the implementation totally sucks |
| 06:33.00 | JasonNJ | on xscale hardware |
| 06:33.03 | mspencer | SD gave me cancer! |
| 06:33.10 | mewyn | mspencer: why not return it all and get this http://webshop.fujitsupc.com/fpc/Ecommerce/buildseriesbean.do?series=P2 |
| 06:33.26 | mewyn | by the time you are done, it'll only be a little bit more :) |
| 06:33.38 | JasonNJ | guys, I give it like a 70 percent chance that in 2 weeks the zaurus division in the US will be history |
| 06:33.39 | mewyn | i've already got crowie drooling over it. |
| 06:33.47 | JasonNJ | I am not joking |
| 06:33.51 | mspencer | mewyn: not enough money, makes me look too much like a mugging target :) |
| 06:34.19 | JasonNJ | bah |
| 06:34.25 | mspencer | JasonNJ: I give it like a 70 percent chance that in the next 2 weeks the zaurus division will not be history. |
| 06:34.29 | kergoth | JasonNJ: i cant believe tim said the 5x00 uses all 4 datalines.. how the fuck is it so slow then? |
| 06:34.33 | kergoth | JasonNJ: pathetic |
| 06:34.46 | kergoth | or at least, that the driver seem sto |
| 06:34.50 | JasonNJ | well, they will ship the 5600 for sure, but that will be it |
| 06:34.51 | mewyn | JasonNJ: they prolly did choose the wrong time to join up. |
| 06:34.52 | mspencer | But I think 80.5% of us can agree that 97% of all statistics are made up ^__^ |
| 06:35.10 | mewyn | jason: will the sharp japanese units still be linux? |
| 06:35.17 | JasonNJ | the new guy that took over from Dr. Uno is visiiting in 2 weeks |
| 06:35.34 | JasonNJ | everyone is very worried |
| 06:35.42 | mewyn | and 34% of those made up statistics are irrelivant |
| 06:35.48 | JasonNJ | mew: yes |
| 06:36.02 | mspencer | although now that we hear some facts behind it, it's interesting and noteworthy... |
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| 06:36.34 | JasonNJ | I'm just trying to give you guys some reality orientation, thats all. |
| 06:36.44 | mspencer | Don't orient us, give us some facts. |
| 06:36.50 | mewyn | thing is, america's tech market is shit |
| 06:36.54 | JasonNJ | ok. |
| 06:37.01 | JasonNJ | Only 2000 5600's are being produced. |
| 06:37.02 | mspencer | Sometimes people misunderstand the facts, and then try to interpret those facts to others incorrectly. |
| 06:37.04 | JasonNJ | Thats a fact. |
| 06:37.23 | mspencer | If I quote you on that, who will believe me? |
| 06:37.44 | mspencer | It's a statement, not a fact, until confirmed by outside sources. |
| 06:37.47 | JasonNJ | well, it doesnt really matter. |
| 06:38.23 | mspencer | OK, the channel probably agrees that JasonNJ believes that Sharp's US division is doomed, and that JasonNJ says that only 2000 5600's will be produced, ever. |
| 06:38.30 | mspencer | Not even that 2000 is just the first production run -- that 2000 is it. |
| 06:38.49 | JasonNJ | I didnt say ever. |
| 06:38.59 | mspencer | thanks for clarifying :) |
| 06:39.23 | chouimat|Zzz | night |
| 06:39.30 | mspencer | We understand and respect that you're looking out for us -- you don't want to see a lot of people buy into something expecting there to be support, and find that support is gone later. |
| 06:39.45 | kergoth | night chouimat|Zzz |
| 06:39.56 | JasonNJ | ms: I have a unique perspective, ok? |
| 06:39.56 | mspencer | It takes thought to want to do that -- you're trying to help us out, and we appreciate that. |
| 06:40.00 | mspencer | BUT... |
| 06:40.22 | chouimat|Zzz | and I will write 450 times : I won't offend anybody tomorrow .... |
| 06:40.41 | mspencer | We can't afford to take your conclusions at face value. We need to see the facts, and see the sources for those facts. If we don't see the facts or the sources, we will have to take the person on their word. |
| 06:41.26 | mspencer | What's sad is, a lot of people will take any person on your word. (This is where my newness to the community comes out: I don't know you, and probably should. If you're someone very reputable and I'm sitting here trashing you, someone should set me straight :) ) |
| 06:41.29 | mewyn | mspencer: i've had my doubts about the american presence of the zaurus for some time |
| 06:41.48 | JasonNJ | lol. |
| 06:41.54 | mspencer | erm on their word -- I was deliberately trying to avoid saying "you're untrustworthy" -- I don't know yet...sorry if that last statement carried that meaning... |
| 06:42.00 | chouimat|Zzz | JasonNJ: ? |
| 06:42.01 | kergoth | mspencer: i'm hereby setting you straight. |
| 06:42.07 | mspencer | OK :) |
| 06:42.25 | JasonNJ | ms: up until 3 weeks ago, I ran the Developer Program. |
| 06:42.54 | mewyn | there are a few problems with the Z |
| 06:43.33 | JasonNJ | 22,000 550's were produced. |
| 06:43.39 | mspencer | Are you a Sharp employee? |
| 06:43.43 | JasonNJ | not anymore. |
| 06:43.55 | mspencer | Ah...now I understand... |
| 06:44.00 | JasonNJ | of those 22,000 produced WORLDWIDE |
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| 06:44.21 | JasonNJ | 7000 just were sent to QVC |
| 06:44.24 | mspencer | wow, how many of those non-Sharp PDAs were sold in Japan, if the Zaurus is #2 and #3? |
| 06:44.30 | JasonNJ | to be sold as liquidation |
| 06:45.14 | JasonNJ | only about 8,000 5500's sold in the US. |
| 06:45.26 | mspencer | What kind of margin did they have on them? |
| 06:45.36 | JasonNJ | ludicrously low. |
| 06:45.36 | mewyn | frist of all, sharp's communications between US and JA branches are shit ass poor, leading to problems with development of the firmware. second, it has very few applicatiions. users need to see apps for a platform like this, if they don't see them, they don't buy. third, sharp picked the wrong time to enter the market. a soft tech market, and softer pda market is not time to jump in |
| 06:45.50 | JasonNJ | mew: that is correct |
| 06:45.54 | mspencer | mewyn: that was cut off at "not time to jump in" |
| 06:45.57 | JasonNJ | shit ass would be a euphamism |
| 06:46.15 | mspencer | maybe they need higher margins :) |
| 06:46.27 | mewyn | mspencer: no, thyat's where i ended. |
| 06:47.01 | JasonNJ | so currently, there are 2000 5600's on order |
| 06:47.08 | JasonNJ | they will not order more unless there is demand |
| 06:47.16 | mspencer | That's smart... |
| 06:47.26 | JasonNJ | and they are already planning its replacement, which may or may not see the light of day |
| 06:47.47 | mewyn | people like me, who have seen the c-700, are deciding against it, going for subnotes instead because of greater power. |
| 06:47.49 | kergoth | mewyn: you didnt metnion their absolutely horrible inability to deal with the community properly or listen to those who were supposed to be developer relations |
| 06:47.51 | JasonNJ | this trip by the new executive in the next 2 weeks is very important for them |
| 06:47.57 | kergoth | mewyn: heh |
| 06:48.05 | mewyn | kergoth: ah, right. good point |
| 06:48.16 | mspencer | What about the Japanese Sharp division? They'll still be around, and they'll still support the developer community, right? |
| 06:48.22 | mewyn | i haven't even powered up my zaurus in a month or so |
| 06:48.30 | mspencer | Unless open source in Japan means something different than it does here... |
| 06:48.35 | mewyn | if you speak japanese |
| 06:48.41 | JasonNJ | apparently he has proposed 3 options: 1) Can the division 2) spin the company off 2) go to Windows CE |
| 06:48.51 | JasonNJ | er 3) go to CE |
| 06:49.04 | kergoth | mewyn: i need a PDA for real PDA reasons, and need a laptop as well .. but the Z is more than a typical PDA, so could easily be overkill for me were i not using them as a hobby |
| 06:49.08 | kergoth | heh |
| 06:49.08 | JasonNJ | 2) is unlikely |
| 06:49.14 | JasonNJ | 3) was rejected |
| 06:49.28 | mspencer | 1 is still a proposal, right? |
| 06:49.33 | JasonNJ | well. |
| 06:49.40 | JasonNJ | the guy has a history of cutting projects. |
| 06:49.50 | JasonNJ | he took over their failing laptop division |
| 06:50.00 | JasonNJ | now, zaurus is part of the laptop division |
| 06:50.07 | JasonNJ | see, they had a re-org in JAPAN |
| 06:50.19 | JasonNJ | some people lost their heads about 3 weeks ago |
| 06:50.25 | mewyn | kergoth: yah, i can see myself using it again, once syncing comes around and i get my p-2000 |
| 06:50.30 | JasonNJ | my former boss may have to return to japan. |
| 06:50.48 | JasonNJ | ben's will probably have to leave next month as well. |
| 06:50.56 | JasonNJ | since his contract expires soon. |
| 06:51.17 | mspencer | Overall, how is Zaurus doing in Japan? |
| 06:51.22 | JasonNJ | I'm also being used as a job ref for a lot of people |
| 06:51.24 | JasonNJ | ms: shitty |
| 06:51.33 | mspencer | how are PDAs doing in general in Japan? |
| 06:51.37 | JasonNJ | shitty. |
| 06:52.14 | JasonNJ | the smartphone has basically killed the market there |
| 06:52.29 | kergoth | I still dislike the idea of my pda being a phone |
| 06:52.39 | mspencer | Are there any finer measurements down in the "shitty" end of your scale, Jason? :) |
| 06:52.45 | kergoth | i want two independent devices with specific purposes connected by bluetooth |
| 06:52.47 | kergoth | damnit |
| 06:52.47 | kergoth | heh |
| 06:52.53 | mewyn | too many bad phone+pda designs |
| 06:52.53 | JasonNJ | ms: very shitty and extremely shitty. |
| 06:53.22 | mewyn | kergoth: my friend just had the toshiba phone+wince pda for sprint. it couldn't be used like a phone |
| 06:53.29 | mspencer | it's difficult to compare so many models when there are so few standards...like restaurants being only one or two stars... |
| 06:53.37 | mewyn | nor could he connect his laptop to the 3g network |
| 06:53.42 | JasonNJ | the 5600, btw, is gonna ship with a broken rom. |
| 06:53.45 | JasonNJ | apparently, email doesnt work |
| 06:53.51 | kergoth | JasonNJ: hah |
| 06:53.57 | kergoth | why am i not surprised |
| 06:54.09 | kergoth | oh wait, its because i'm cynical and jaded, thats right |
| 06:54.19 | mewyn | well, it was fun while it lasted |
| 06:54.25 | JasonNJ | so apparently the date it ships, a 1.1 rom will be avalaible |
| 06:54.27 | mewyn | time to switch to ipaq |
| 06:54.29 | mspencer | I remember when Agenda Computing went under, the hardware supplier for Agenda ( at http://www.softfield.com ) stepped forward and started selling the units without software support for dirt-cheap. |
| 06:54.38 | kergoth | mewyn: and OZ's ipaq support is coming right along.. :) |
| 06:54.42 | kergoth | hehe |
| 06:54.45 | kergoth | </shameless plug> |
| 06:54.50 | JasonNJ | the time is to support OZ/OE |
| 06:54.53 | mspencer | If Sharp stops selling these things, will Sharp's hardware supplier be able to sell Zaurus hardware? |
| 06:55.00 | JasonNJ | huh? |
| 06:55.07 | kergoth | JasonNJ: the response to OE has been very good |
| 06:55.10 | JasonNJ | Sharp IS the hardware supplier |
| 06:55.14 | mspencer | See above Agenda statement |
| 06:55.19 | mewyn | kergoth: i may fuckin go back to palm |
| 06:55.21 | kergoth | JasonNJ: from nearly everyone i spoke with about it, including some of those involved with familiar |
| 06:55.24 | mspencer | So was Agenda Computing, Jason :) |
| 06:55.30 | kergoth | JasonNJ: so handhelds.org collaboration is a good possibility |
| 06:55.47 | mspencer | Wait, no they weren't...never mind... |
| 06:56.11 | JasonNJ | the zaurus is made in japan.. there were plans to build a unit in taiwan but it did not gel |
| 06:56.13 | mspencer | So if the hardware is profitable, and a company can just disregard any software development costs and do low-volume hardware, will anyone else be picking up the Zaurus-type hardware? |
| 06:56.35 | JasonNJ | ms: hope is not dead. |
| 06:56.48 | mspencer | I figured it wasn't. There's always OZ, of course :) |
| 06:56.51 | kergoth | hm |
| 06:56.55 | JasonNJ | IBM has a new linux pda platform and theres gonna be a lot of linux smartphones out |
| 06:57.12 | mspencer | and Sharp Japan will still be around to support my C700 for a while, right? :) |
| 06:57.16 | JasonNJ | plus, we should be able to get OZ running on the Dell and the new Palms |
| 06:57.30 | kergoth | I figure within a reasonable period of time OE will be producing my debian desktop package feeds |
| 06:57.30 | JasonNJ | ms: hopefully |
| 06:57.33 | kergoth | heh |
| 06:57.39 | mewyn | i wonder if it'd be possible to dual boot a pda :) |
| 06:57.44 | mewyn | palm and OE |
| 06:58.19 | mewyn | prolly not |
| 06:58.38 | kergoth | iirc you can dual boot wince and linux onthe ipaq |
| 06:58.45 | mspencer | So Sharp orders parts and assembles their own Zaurus units? |
| 06:58.50 | mewyn | i don't want wince |
| 06:58.51 | JasonNJ | ms: yep. |
| 06:59.02 | NeoTron | so can one somehow spawn the browser pointing to a specific file on the Zaurus? |
| 06:59.40 | JasonNJ | the factory in Nara, japan does everything |
| 06:59.49 | JasonNJ | design, production, the whole deal |
| 06:59.53 | JasonNJ | software integration too |
| 06:59.58 | JasonNJ | thats the problem |
| 07:00.05 | JasonNJ | they wanted everything internalized |
| 07:00.10 | JasonNJ | they didnt sub contract jack |
| 07:00.27 | mspencer | oh...so if someone were purchasing in sufficient quantities, they could get hardware with old firmware loaded on for a price? |
| 07:00.28 | JasonNJ | thats also why the unit is so friggin expensive |
| 07:00.59 | JasonNJ | ms: no, once they do a production run they dont do any more |
| 07:01.25 | mspencer | ah, I see... |
| 07:01.29 | mspencer | Wow, that does suck... |
| 07:01.52 | mspencer | The Zaurus community might have to resort to importing Japanese units and using OpenZaurus on them :) |
| 07:01.54 | JasonNJ | they also only have 70 odd engineers dedicated to the zaurus |
| 07:02.03 | JasonNJ | of which many are going to be transferred to other projects |
| 07:02.09 | JasonNJ | so they wil have less labor soon |
| 07:02.53 | JasonNJ | kergoth: oh you are gonna love this one. |
| 07:03.05 | JasonNJ | apparently, the orinoco drivers on the 5600 are also busted |
| 07:03.18 | JasonNJ | they are using old shit ones |
| 07:03.20 | kergoth | er, how hard is it to include drivers that work? what a fucking joke |
| 07:03.25 | JasonNJ | so the new linksys card doesnt work |
| 07:04.26 | kergoth | pathetic, absolutely pathetic |
| 07:04.40 | JasonNJ | kergoth: now you know why I have been depressed since august |
| 07:05.05 | JasonNJ | oh yeah ... |
| 07:05.11 | JasonNJ | the 5600 is slower than the 5500 |
| 07:05.13 | JasonNJ | by a LOT |
| 07:05.14 | mspencer | (sorry about that earlier, Jason: I'd started getting really fed up with the ton of opinions with no factual backup showing up on the forum, and was kinda pre-biased against anything expressing that viewpoint. I apologize for that...) |
| 07:05.36 | JasonNJ | running some of neotron's games, its like 5 frames per second slower |
| 07:05.40 | JasonNJ | sometimes 7 |
| 07:05.51 | JasonNJ | you can frickin see screen repaints sometimes |
| 07:05.56 | kergoth | i noticed that |
| 07:06.00 | mspencer | Is this a software problem? |
| 07:06.07 | JasonNJ | Interstellar Flames runs at 14fps on a 5600 |
| 07:06.15 | JasonNJ | 20 on a 5500 |
| 07:06.38 | kergoth | redraw delay is bad |
| 07:06.39 | JasonNJ | in order to improve performance, they fastloaded all the apps by default on the 5600 |
| 07:06.47 | JasonNJ | so you basically have no memory left! |
| 07:06.54 | mspencer | ouch... |
| 07:07.13 | mspencer | wait, that's actually kinda smart -- a reviewer is going to see the speed they want, and they probably won't install anything anyway... |
| 07:07.33 | mspencer | but anybody who will be installing custom software will probably be able to disable fastloading of some apps... |
| 07:07.58 | JasonNJ | I also heard that the unit has java compatability problems |
| 07:08.03 | mspencer | provided that fastloading is still a feature you can turn off...right? |
| 07:08.10 | JasonNJ | with apps written for jeode on the 5500 |
| 07:08.20 | JasonNJ | this is as of this week |
| 07:08.20 | mspencer | Has anyone tested with that fastloading turned off, and confirmed the frame rate hit is still there? |
| 07:08.26 | kergoth | mspencer: dood |
| 07:08.29 | JasonNJ | the frame rate hit is still there. |
| 07:08.31 | kergoth | mspencer: fast load _speeds_ app execution |
| 07:08.41 | kergoth | mspencer: disabling it will make it feel slower, not faster |
| 07:08.49 | mspencer | not if the app has to page. It's possible that memory starvation could cause that problem. |
| 07:08.49 | kergoth | and the performance problems arent due to RAM |
| 07:08.55 | kergoth | its due to the CPU being shit |
| 07:08.57 | kergoth | nope |
| 07:09.02 | mspencer | ah, gotcha... |
| 07:09.09 | JasonNJ | yeah, see, the B series Xscale is a turd. |
| 07:09.11 | kergoth | its due to the numerous known bugs in the B stepping of the xscale |
| 07:09.12 | kergoth | yep |
| 07:09.26 | JasonNJ | while it has a 100mhz memory bus, it has a flaw in that it talks to the memory at half the speed |
| 07:09.34 | JasonNJ | plus, the writeback cache does not work. |
| 07:09.39 | mspencer | wow... |
| 07:09.57 | kergoth | you can disable the workaround for the cache errata, but you'll likely see data loss as a result |
| 07:10.00 | mspencer | too late for Sharp to RMA the lots they bot? :) |
| 07:10.00 | kergoth | while it'll be fast |
| 07:10.15 | mspencer | erm bought -- I don't usually make typos like that, that's embarassing... |
| 07:10.20 | JasonNJ | ms: they cant NOT ship a product |
| 07:10.22 | kergoth | heh |
| 07:10.32 | JasonNJ | the C step is only shipping in limited quantities now |
| 07:10.39 | mspencer | ouch...feels like a game development house all of a sudden... |
| 07:10.40 | kergoth | whats its name again? |
| 07:10.42 | kergoth | pxa255, right? |
| 07:10.45 | kergoth | keep forgetting |
| 07:10.45 | JasonNJ | PXA-255 |
| 07:10.48 | kergoth | yeah |
| 07:10.59 | kergoth | cmon baby, boot |
| 07:11.03 | kergoth | I keep breaking shit in this image |
| 07:11.19 | kergoth | JasonNJ: i'm adding that new init |
| 07:11.23 | kergoth | JasonNJ: from richard gooch |
| 07:11.26 | JasonNJ | I hope sharp can keep it together, but like I said, I know too much. |
| 07:11.36 | JasonNJ | awesome kergoth |
| 07:11.42 | kergoth | JasonNJ: the base packaging changes are already in place, i'm tweaking our startup scripts to be compatible with both |
| 07:11.43 | JasonNJ | that should improve boot speed a lot |
| 07:11.58 | kergoth | and you'll be able to install either or both and switch between them |
| 07:12.00 | kergoth | yeah |
| 07:12.04 | kergoth | JasonNJ: raster had a great idea |
| 07:12.07 | kergoth | JasonNJ: graphical init |
| 07:12.22 | JasonNJ | what like what redhat or suse has? |
| 07:12.39 | JasonNJ | that doesnt actually change the init does it? |
| 07:12.41 | kergoth | last i checked suse just dumps the messages over a background |
| 07:12.45 | kergoth | and redhat does even less |
| 07:12.52 | JasonNJ | mandrake has a cool one |
| 07:13.01 | kergoth | we're talking a new init, with a graphical status output |
| 07:13.06 | kergoth | and possibly even an abort button |
| 07:13.11 | kergoth | to stop boot and drop to a prompt |
| 07:13.12 | kergoth | and shit |
| 07:13.16 | JasonNJ | that would be cool. |
| 07:13.19 | raster | nah |
| 07:13.25 | raster | a real graphical gui |
| 07:13.32 | raster | proper ipc message api to talk to it |
| 07:13.39 | raster | so the inti scritps/program/etup |
| 07:13.42 | raster | regularly calls |
| 07:13.49 | mspencer | The bootloader needs perl! |
| 07:13.53 | raster | gui_init -show-msg "Starting this..." |
| 07:14.05 | raster | gui_init -show-icon "/boot/icons/this.png" |
| 07:14.10 | kergoth | Mspencer needs psychological help! |
| 07:14.12 | kergoth | :) |
| 07:14.13 | mspencer | heh |
| 07:14.19 | raster | and the gui_init program just messages the gui daemon |
| 07:14.36 | mspencer | actually, if it's limited enough in scope, that could actually work! :) |
| 07:14.51 | kergoth | raster: some form of percentage adjustment interface would be useful for things like filesystem checking and the like as well, of course |
| 07:14.55 | kergoth | :) |
| 07:14.58 | mspencer | The boot loader could just show something static until an initrd could be mounted and execution started...then called programs can update the screen a bit... |
| 07:15.11 | kergoth | i'm just totally sold on the gui init idea.. as long as its need(8) based as well, i'm a happy camper |
| 07:15.12 | raster | kergoth: yup. definitely |
| 07:15.14 | kergoth | heheh |
| 07:15.23 | NeoTron | PXA-255 also has a 200 MHz bus btw (well can have at least) |
| 07:15.29 | JasonNJ | damn nigerians |
| 07:15.30 | raster | well you can just slide it into your exisitng init if you do it wiht messages |
| 07:15.32 | raster | i've done it before |
| 07:15.39 | raster | back when iw as at va i had a gui init working |
| 07:15.42 | raster | it was prototype stuff |
| 07:15.45 | JasonNJ | nigerians, and the freakin penis enlargement spammers |
| 07:15.45 | raster | ran in he fb |
| 07:15.50 | JasonNJ | they should just team up |
| 07:15.50 | raster | even suported multihead in the fb |
| 07:15.57 | JasonNJ | then I would get less spam. |
| 07:16.06 | mspencer | get a one-character email address username -- that keeps you off of lists, because people think your address is invalid :) |
| 07:16.07 | raster | you coudl nmessage it ti display a new icon |
| 07:16.11 | raster | and an accompanying message |
| 07:16.15 | raster | ask it to chnge backgorund image |
| 07:16.18 | mspencer | spam@mspencer.net -- remove spa |
| 07:16.27 | raster | fade in or fade out |
| 07:16.27 | raster | and ask it to exit |
| 07:16.27 | raster | (when your'e ready for x) |
| 07:16.39 | raster | or if all shit hits th efan ask it to exit and you get your text console back |
| 07:16.44 | NeoTron | I get this new annoying porn-spam-genre which isn't filtered |
| 07:16.59 | NeoTron | short emils with all "sex" words intentionally mispeeld |
| 07:17.01 | raster | iused sysvipc to avoid needing an fs for messaging |
| 07:17.05 | NeoTron | so that it doesn't trigger spam filters |
| 07:17.20 | raster | but i was having issues with the images being availabel caue the fs may not be proeprly mouned wiht the icon images onit |
| 07:17.29 | raster | so i was toying wiht makybe putting them ina ramdisk |
| 07:17.31 | mspencer | raster: initrd? |
| 07:17.34 | raster | and nuking it when the boot is done |
| 07:17.35 | JasonNJ | I'm waiting for "HELLO, MY NAME IS MUBUTU NAGUMBA, AND I AM THE SON OF THE DEPOSED DICTATOR OF THE IVORY COAST. SEND ME 7 MILLION DOLLARS AND I WILL SEND YOU A BOOK ON HOW TO MAKE YOUR PENIS LARGER!" |
| 07:17.37 | NeoTron | reminds me of the mac |
| 07:17.38 | raster | mspencer: yup |
| 07:17.39 | NeoTron | the little icons |
| 07:17.52 | raster | JasonNJ: heheheheheh... :) |
| 07:17.54 | kergoth | mspencer: initrd is gone by the time the rootfs mounts, doubt it'd work |
| 07:17.59 | raster | NeoTron: that was the idea :) |
| 07:18.02 | mspencer | We need that. :) |
| 07:18.24 | NeoTron | and as a note, yes I do like that idea for a PDA |
| 07:18.38 | NeoTron | for a (linux) desktop it sucks but for a PDA it'd be cute to have little icons and crap |
| 07:18.40 | raster | for hackers its not that godo - thydont see the text messages |
| 07:18.44 | raster | but for average consumers/users |
| 07:18.49 | raster | it hides the scary text |
| 07:18.55 | raster | and still gives them boot feedback |
| 07:19.14 | mspencer | "‚µ‚ ‚킹‚¢ZAURUS" |
| 07:19.43 | JasonNJ | mspencer: how long have you been into the Z? |
| 07:20.00 | mspencer | I don't own one yet -- I've been an Agenda owner for several months though. |
| 07:20.47 | mspencer | I think it came with PDA apps or something, but I don't use it for that. It's an (extremely limited) mobile computer, and when I read about the C700 I realized how much I've outgrown my Agenda :) ) |
| 07:21.07 | mspencer | erm, nix the close-paren there :) |
| 07:21.34 | kergoth | Jan 1 00:07:57 openzaurus daemon.info cardmgr[3252]: executing: 'modprobe ide-cs' |
| 07:21.35 | biafradog | kergoth: you can dump into a /dev/ram and it'll be there after rootfs switch |
| 07:21.37 | kergoth | Jan 1 00:07:58 openzaurus daemon.info cardmgr[3252]: get dev info on socket 0 failed: Resource temporarily unavailable |
| 07:21.40 | kergoth | hmm |
| 07:21.58 | kergoth | biafradog: good point |
| 07:22.12 | kergoth | wtf is wrong with my pcmcia support here |
| 07:22.12 | mspencer | Why do you ask, Jason? (curious now...) |
| 07:22.14 | kergoth | grr |
| 07:23.39 | JasonNJ | ms: just curious |
| 07:23.41 | biafradog | man I wish I had 2k to drop on c700 with blue tooth, gps, gprs phone. :-( |
| 07:24.01 | mspencer | (what currency?) |
| 07:24.39 | biafradog | usd I'm figuring. c700 is $700 from dyn, blue tooth gps and etc is another 1300 at least. |
| 07:25.26 | mspencer | oh wow, I didn't realize those things were so much more expensive. The perhipherals I was interested in didn't cost nearly that much... |
| 07:25.38 | mspencer | GPRS is a cell modem card, right? |
| 07:27.22 | biafradog | what periphs you talking about? |
| 07:28.18 | biafradog | I'm thinking stick a bluetooth CF in the Z... use Bluetooth/GPRS enabled phone for connectivity, bluetooth GPS for well... GPS... and other bluetooth stuff for kicks. Is there a mobile bluetooth capable camera that anyone knows of? |
| 07:28.26 | mspencer | $150 for GPS... |
| 07:28.39 | biafradog | not for bluetooth capable GPS |
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| 07:28.51 | biafradog | I don't want to have to swtich CF constantly. |
| 07:30.16 | biafradog | I saw that pretec or somesuch makes a bluetooth GPS gizmo |
| 07:30.21 | mspencer | how much is your convenience worth to you? |
| 07:30.33 | kergoth | $1700, apparently |
| 07:30.34 | kergoth | :) |
| 07:30.36 | mspencer | Yeah :) |
| 07:31.06 | biafradog | well, it's all got to be active at once... |
| 07:31.29 | mspencer | oh, we didn't realize your intended use for the Zaurus was so...unZaurus-like... |
| 07:31.30 | NeoTron | so no idea if I can launch opera with a URL? |
| 07:31.37 | NeoTron | using qcop or something |
| 07:31.51 | biafradog | huh? unzaurus like? |
| 07:32.19 | mspencer | Yeah: needing to use all those accessories at the same time. |
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| 07:32.43 | mspencer | Running a mobile webcam with GPS coordinate overlay, uploading pictures with a GPRS modem? |
| 07:33.00 | biafradog | think of a courrier company using a Z with GPS, GPRS, Barcode Scanner. (camera is just stupid fun stuff unrelated) |
| 07:33.13 | mspencer | If I was the carrier, I wouldn't use the Zaurus. |
| 07:33.20 | mspencer | Damn, the Zaurus sucks! ^__^ |
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| 07:33.38 | biafradog | sorry: what's your PDA of choice? |
| 07:33.41 | mspencer | with carefully-chosen constraints, the Zaurus sucks! ^__^ |
| 07:33.55 | biafradog | I have a Palm 1000 for sale. |
| 07:33.58 | mspencer | Let's just say my PDA of choice has flaws :) |
| 07:33.59 | NeoTron | ah, qcop did work |
| 07:34.33 | mspencer | most of which are compromised I personally chose, realizing I would need to make a tradeoff between size, price, and functionality. |
| 07:34.38 | mspencer | erm compromises... |
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| 07:38.37 | JasonNJ | shit, 2:30am |
| 07:38.45 | JasonNJ | time for me to go to bed. I am turning into a vampire |
| 07:38.56 | mspencer | night |
| 07:39.08 | JasonNJ | niters guys. dont despair |
| 07:39.14 | JasonNJ | better times are coming |
| 07:39.23 | mspencer | <sings> we will perserveeeeereee... </sings> |
| 07:40.04 | mspencer | wow, lack of sleep is making me loopy. I'm surprised you guys are still putting up with me :) |
| 07:40.16 | mspencer | oh yeah, this IS IRC :) |
| 07:42.46 | mspencer | whoa crap, $860 worth of pending charges just showed up on my credit card! |
| 07:43.31 | mspencer | only one thing I can think of that can contribute to that much charge -- maybe my C700 is shipping -- even though they told me on the phone two days ago, it'd be another 2 to 2 1/2 weeks :) |
| 07:49.35 | mspencer | Never saw the web page say "Available credit: $-90.19" before -- I thought they'd stop giving out approval codes if it'd make the account negative! |
| 07:50.39 | gaurdian | not always, could have been pre authorized and hit at a certian time later |
| 07:51.06 | mspencer | Right -- MO/TO companies are supposed to do that. Ask the issuer for an authorization when they get the order, but not batch anything out until they ship. |
| 07:51.38 | mspencer | In this case, all they did recently was obtain an approval code for that sum of money -- my account isn't really negative, it just has money promised to someone. |
| 07:52.24 | mspencer | But VisaNet approval codes expire after 7 days, so this means to me they think they'll be sending my C700 within a week -- that or they don't understand VisaNet regulations very well and are kinda breaking the rules a bit (in a way that doesn't really matter) |
| 07:53.40 | mspencer | but if those batch out and my debt account really does go over its credit limit...won't that make the bank do cruel things to me, financially? |
| 07:54.04 | mspencer | my paycheck doesn't hit the bank until the 30th...X__X |
| 07:54.43 | gaurdian | pretty much |
| 07:54.54 | gaurdian | could get ugly, yea |
| 07:55.23 | mspencer | and here I was thinking -- I'm glad Dynamism isn't going to ship that for a while, because I need to make an online payment to make room for it... |
| 07:58.44 | mspencer | btw, regarding those Dynamism conversions... |
| 07:58.59 | gaurdian | I thought about a 700 before I bought the 5500, but couldent see almost 700 for one |
| 07:59.25 | mspencer | I need Japanese support for class stuff -- I asked the sales rep who took my order, to see if they could leave off the English conversions. |
| 07:59.44 | gaurdian | oh ? not gonna have it in english ? |
| 08:00.27 | mspencer | I speak bash, and I have exchange student friends and a ‚©‚ñ‚¶‚¶‚µ‚傤, so I can make do :) |
| 08:00.36 | gaurdian | heh |
| 08:01.18 | gaurdian | I am still wondering how realistic compiling on the Z is |
| 08:01.31 | mspencer | I'll let you know -- I'm planning on doing that myself :) |
| 08:01.47 | mspencer | OK, I have a vocab quiz tomorrow morning -- night! |
| 08:01.54 | gaurdian | I thought about it, I have a 256meg sd card I could use |
| 08:01.59 | gaurdian | laters |
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| 08:02.26 | mspencer | (need to wake up in 6 1/2 hours -- sorry, don't mean to be rude...‚µ‚‚ꂢ‚µ‚Ü‚·and all that...) |
| 08:05.05 | gaurdian | np..have a good one |
| 08:05.59 | mspencer | (maybe they got a batch of C700's in, said "oh look, we don't have to apply the conversion work on this one, we can ship it right now..." :) ) |
| 08:11.04 | NeoTron | wtf |
| 08:11.14 | NeoTron | why can't I get a qtextbrowser that resizes??! |
| 08:14.43 | NeoTron | fucking hell!!! |
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| 08:16.20 | NeoTron | there! |
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| 08:40.48 | mark | 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 |
| 08:40.59 | mark | 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 |
| 08:41.05 | mark | woops, sorry |
| 08:48.47 | gtr|away | (nick gtr |
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| 10:56.04 | raceme | is the zaurus' irda 115kbits compliant ? |
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| 14:24.47 | Twiun | lol |
| 14:24.55 | Twiun | I'm just about to leave for work |
| 14:25.05 | Twiun | ... temping as a sales assistant |
| 14:25.14 | nofpu | heh, have fun |
| 14:25.37 | mark | Twiun: what happened to thsoe offers you got? |
| 14:25.42 | Twiun | yeah... 4pm to 8pm shift... |
| 14:25.55 | Twiun | mark: the last offer I had was in Staines - way to far to travel |
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| 14:46.33 | LariosZ | hi |
| 14:46.47 | LariosZ | the opie irc mooooolaaa |
| 14:53.58 | darthvader | time of launch |
| 14:56.40 | LariosZ | any spanish? |
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| 15:27.30 | warmi | hi |
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| 15:48.10 | mr_science | yo z-dudes... |
| 15:48.32 | mr_science | and any other non-dudes... |
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| 16:11.19 | chouimat | morning |
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| 16:11.33 | Zarchon | hi |
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| 16:17.31 | Pendalar | http://computers.cnet.com/hardware/0-1087-8-20548780-6.html ... feb 2003 *sigh* |
| 16:18.03 | Pendalar | it's sad I have about $7k to blow and no new model =-P |
| 16:20.08 | treke | so buy a c700 |
| 16:20.58 | Pendalar | I really don't like the form factor |
| 16:21.13 | treke | it just has to hold you over until the 5600 is released |
| 16:21.14 | treke | :) |
| 16:21.19 | Pendalar | and could get a 1.8ghz laptop for that if I look hard enough |
| 16:21.31 | Pendalar | I'm not going to buy both, I only have so many hands.. |
| 16:21.57 | treke | you could order a b500 from japan |
| 16:23.01 | darienm | Question: is the Zaurus 5600 available in the US? (sorry, I've been out of touch) |
| 16:23.08 | icefox | Pendalar: sooo |
| 16:23.10 | icefox | soono |
| 16:23.19 | treke | darienm: scroll up about a quarter of a page :) |
| 16:23.29 | darienm | treke, haha, I just saw that. On phone with a client. |
| 16:23.32 | darienm | He asked.. duh. |
| 16:24.08 | Pendalar | soooo I have money to blow once in my life and dammit nothing to buy (that's released) I want |
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| 16:24.45 | Pendalar | although I have one question icefox.. those psion cases someone posted on the list |
| 16:24.53 | Pendalar | will the 5600 squeeze in them or no? |
| 16:25.12 | Pendalar | I like big butts and I can not lie... sorry |
| 16:26.29 | icefox | not sure |
| 16:28.08 | Pendalar | I could at least go ahead and order that, or a zthin usb cable thing... if anyone knew the compatibility with the 5600 |
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| 17:30.06 | kergoth | hey |
| 17:30.22 | biafradog | hey |
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| 17:35.35 | kc8ioy | hi |
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| 17:36.49 | JasonNJ | morning |
| 17:37.39 | biafradog | So jason, I say you ranting about how slow the 5600 is... do you recommend that I fork out for a 5500 now instead of waiting on the 5600s? |
| 17:37.50 | biafradog | is it true that it's got less RAM? |
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| 17:38.41 | biafradog | I intend to get a c700 later this year when and if they release NA... (or I get the dough) but I'd like to get some hardware finally (within <2 months) |
| 17:39.43 | warmi | 5600 is based on 400 Xscale ? |
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| 17:39.52 | JasonNJ | bia: the 5500 is a great machine, if you can get it cheap, go for it |
| 17:40.01 | JasonNJ | but run OZ on it |
| 17:40.05 | JasonNJ | if you get one |
| 17:41.27 | JasonNJ | warmi: yes 400mhz PXA-250 b step |
| 17:41.54 | Neo|Work | if SD just wasn't so damn slow |
| 17:42.28 | TheMasterMind1 | JasonNJ: any word from dell about axim docs? |
| 17:42.29 | Neo|Work | and the one thing I hate with OZ right now is that the old kernel has a buggy jffs driver that keeps "locking up" |
| 17:42.40 | warmi | the next generation of XScale CPUs is wait worthing for .. they are doubling the memory bandwith |
| 17:42.43 | warmi | that should help a lot |
| 17:42.55 | warmi | shit :-) worth waiting for |
| 17:42.59 | Neo|Work | btw, the higher end Axim X5 is really nice, hardware wise. perfect OZ machine with the 48 MB ROM (and 64 MB memory) |
| 17:43.00 | biafradog | next gen when? |
| 17:43.01 | Neo|Work | and SD + CF |
| 17:43.02 | biafradog | (that rhymes) |
| 17:43.16 | Neo|Work | imagine it with OZ, all memory as ram, with SD and such |
| 17:43.29 | warmi | biafradog: as far as I know Intel is about to release it |
| 17:43.39 | Neo|Work | warmi: PXA-255 has a 200 MHz bus and is less buggy, yes |
| 17:44.04 | biafradog | what is "cheap" for a 5500? |
| 17:44.11 | warmi | that will be a true sucessor to ARM |
| 17:44.12 | Neo|Work | there are a few PocketPC devices based on the new CPU in the pipeline, that's all I knopw |
| 17:44.15 | kc8ioy | i don't have a zaurus yet, but i am wondering what you can sync the zaurus with (such as PIMs) |
| 17:44.20 | TheMasterMind1 | biafradog: read the topic, $229 |
| 17:44.26 | Neo|Work | biafradog: well, depends, $200-300 or so |
| 17:44.27 | biafradog | yeah ( I have ) |
| 17:44.41 | warmi | biafradog: I would say anythign below 300 would be cheap |
| 17:44.46 | Neo|Work | TheMasterMind1: which must be noted is used pricing (if it's still even valid again - anyone actually checked? :) |
| 17:44.59 | biafradog | Yeah, it's valid. |
| 17:45.06 | biafradog | (Talked with Mark yesterday) |
| 17:45.28 | gaurdian | I paid 329 new for mine |
| 17:45.44 | gaurdian | new |
| 17:45.52 | biafradog | 229 is enticing compared to $570-700 for c700 anglified |
| 17:46.09 | warmi | biafradog: yeah but C 700 is a completely different ballgame |
| 17:48.37 | Neo|Work | mainly, it's new and imported. :P |
| 17:48.42 | Neo|Work | and hard to get by |
| 17:48.55 | kergoth | and has a spiffy formfactor :) |
| 17:48.56 | biafradog | and 500 bucks more |
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| 17:49.08 | biafradog | which is like 800 bucks to us canucks. |
| 17:49.31 | warmi_away | biafradog: uh .. 640x480 - that is a huge difference |
| 17:49.37 | warmi_away | forget the formfactor |
| 17:49.46 | biafradog | yeah, I would love that as I plan to actually use the thing. |
| 17:50.15 | biafradog | so what are the problems with it, who's got a constructive criticism... |
| 17:50.27 | Neo|Work | battery time, they say |
| 17:50.57 | kergoth | performance |
| 17:51.13 | kergoth | its the B stepping of the scale, so it has bugs |
| 17:51.29 | biafradog | right. I heard that |
| 17:52.08 | Neo|Work | I need to get Interstellar Flames running on the A300 to see how it performs |
| 17:52.37 | kergoth | yeah, would be intersting |
| 17:52.47 | kergoth | some users have built linux kernels for the b500/5600 with the cache errata workaround disabled |
| 17:52.51 | kergoth | ballsy move, risky |
| 17:52.55 | kergoth | but fastt |
| 17:52.56 | kergoth | heh |
| 17:55.01 | Neo|Work | so it makes it noticeable faster? |
| 17:55.07 | kergoth | yep |
| 17:55.09 | Neo|Work | what is that error checking or what not anyway? |
| 17:55.11 | kergoth | sukoshi said he could feel it |
| 17:55.21 | kergoth | hell if i know, i dont know the details, never read the errata ;) |
| 17:56.45 | biafradog | what is this b500/a300 stuff? |
| 17:57.14 | kergoth | biafradog: b500 is the japanese version of the 5600, and is available there now. a300 is another japanese zaurus, lower end |
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| 18:01.12 | kc8ioy | what can i sync a zaurus too? |
| 18:01.16 | kc8ioy | to* |
| 18:01.23 | biafradog | ah. |
| 18:02.04 | gaurdian | I sync with Outlook easilly |
| 18:02.19 | kc8ioy | on *nix? |
| 18:02.36 | gaurdian | I herd you can sync with evolution and a few other *nix pim's |
| 18:02.54 | gaurdian | but I dont know about them for sure |
| 18:02.57 | kergoth | kitchensync lets you sync with the kde pim apps |
| 18:04.11 | gaurdian | I also herd Lotus syncing was in the works |
| 18:04.51 | *** join/#zaurus ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 18:04.51 | *** mode/#zaurus [+o ChanServ] by sterling.freenode.net |
| 18:05.03 | gaurdian | odly enough, when I installed intellisync, it gave me the option of syncing with the palm desktop also |
| 18:05.06 | mark | wb ChanServ |
| 18:08.53 | *** mode/#zaurus [+o Neo|Work] by ChanServ |
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| 18:15.16 | frankps | hi all |
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| 18:47.33 | mr_science | hey |
| 18:48.23 | TheMasterMind1 | hi |
| 18:49.19 | biafradog | yo! |
| 18:51.27 | kergoth | heh |
| 18:52.42 | mewyn` | Yow! |
| 18:52.48 | mewyn` | Yao. |
| 18:52.50 | mewyn` | whatever |
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| 19:03.05 | mewyn` | re warmi |
| 19:08.36 | warmi | re |
| 19:10.14 | mewyn` | damnit i hate this new dishwasher |
| 19:10.29 | DrZaius | hasn't got a linux port yet? |
| 19:10.30 | mewyn` | it leaves a funny taste in everything |
| 19:10.36 | DrZaius | tried netbsd on it? |
| 19:11.24 | treke | of course netbsd runs on it |
| 19:11.44 | DrZaius | netbsd's dishwasher safe? |
| 19:12.26 | warmi | mewyn: maybe you got to wash the dishwasher itself .. |
| 19:12.28 | warmi | I don't know |
| 19:12.49 | mewyn` | warmi: it's the plastic they used for the racks |
| 19:12.58 | mewyn` | doesn't seem to bother anyone in the house but me |
| 19:13.06 | warmi | that will eventually go away |
| 19:13.19 | mewyn` | hopefully |
| 19:14.04 | mewyn` | warmi: any word at the trib? |
| 19:14.47 | warmi | I will talk to Wolak again today - it has been over a week since I asked him :-) |
| 19:14.52 | mewyn` | ok |
| 19:15.01 | mewyn` | need job |
| 19:15.07 | warmi | yeah, I know |
| 19:16.09 | mewyn` | i've got an interview at school for a student position, but it sounds like i'm not gonna get dick for hours |
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| 19:17.13 | mewyn` | i'll be lucky to get 6hrs per week |
| 19:17.27 | Zarchon | Are all the wireless ethernet cards supported by the default OS on the zaurus 5500 work with oz? |
| 19:17.39 | warmi | yeah, I know - my wife works for college ( sysadmin kind of work ) |
| 19:17.45 | warmi | and she is limited to 20 hours per week |
| 19:17.57 | warmi | but they pay pretty well - 25 $ /h |
| 19:17.58 | mewyn` | 20hr is max |
| 19:18.42 | treke | Zarchon: They should |
| 19:19.07 | Zarchon | Cool. Are there any wireless cf cards that are *not* supported? :-) |
| 19:19.08 | warmi | treke: you run OZ right ? |
| 19:19.17 | treke | warmi: yup |
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| 19:19.23 | TheMasterMind1 | Zarchon: not really |
| 19:19.34 | TheMasterMind1 | ibot wifi |
| 19:19.35 | | from memory, wifi is see wireless or for a small compact non-port-blocking card, get one of these a) linksys wcf12 for only $65 shipped from buy.com b) netgear MA701NA for $65 shipped from buy.com c) socket LOW POWER wlan (amazing battery life) for $160 + shipping on buy.com |
| 19:19.49 | warmi | the other day kergoth said something that OZ is pretty much read stable - it is Opie that is causing problems |
| 19:19.55 | warmi | was that your experience as well ? |
| 19:20.24 | treke | I'd say thats fairly accurate. OPIE is still a bit unstable |
| 19:21.02 | warmi | treke: you mean qpe itself or the apps that come bundled with OPIE ? |
| 19:21.42 | treke | a little of both |
| 19:22.05 | treke | although I havent actually used OPIE in the past month, so I dont know if it has changed |
| 19:22.22 | treke | harlekin has been working hard to get things in order for 1.0 |
| 19:22.26 | Zarchon | gee, these ibots are useful |
| 19:22.30 | Zarchon | what else do they know? |
| 19:22.36 | TheMasterMind1 | Zarchon: everything |
| 19:22.40 | Zarchon | hehe |
| 19:22.49 | Zarchon | ibot SL-5600 release date |
| 19:22.50 | | Zarchon: i haven't a clue |
| 19:22.53 | Zarchon | hehe |
| 19:22.55 | TheMasterMind1 | hah |
| 19:23.06 | TheMasterMind1 | ibot sl-5600 |
| 19:23.06 | | extra, extra, read all about it, sl-5600 is the newest zaurus, announced Nov12. More info available at http://www.sharpusa.com/products/FunctionPressReleases/0,1079,32,00.html and http://www.sharpusa.com/products/ModelLanding/0,1058,1016,00.html and photos available at http://psifertex.com/gallery/sl5600, or http://www.sharpusa.com/products/ModelLanding/0,1058,1027,00.html |
| 19:23.24 | mewyn` | brrrrrrr |
| 19:23.35 | Zarchon | ibot wifi performance |
| 19:23.36 | | Zarchon: I don't know, could you explain it? |
| 19:23.50 | Zarchon | I guess I can look these things up on my own. :-) |
| 19:23.58 | TheMasterMind1 | yea.. |
| 19:24.03 | TheMasterMind1 | if you find something useful you can teach ibot |
| 19:24.05 | TheMasterMind1 | ibot wireless |
| 19:24.10 | | methinks wireless is The Z supports most prism2 compact flash based wireless 802.11b cards as well as a few others, see http://www.zauruszone.farplanet.net/wiki/index.php?WirelessCardSupport or or http://www.zauruszone.com/howtos/wirelesscards.shtml or see wifi |
| 19:25.24 | biafradog | last link is broken ibot! |
| 19:25.44 | JasonNJ | use the ones on docs.zaurus.com |
| 19:25.47 | JasonNJ | zauruszone is dead |
| 19:25.51 | JasonNJ | dead as a doornail |
| 19:26.26 | TheMasterMind1 | ibot zauruszone |
| 19:26.27 | | it has been said that zauruszone is a site run by Jason Perlow located at http://www.zauruszone.com but it's usually down. |
| 19:26.39 | JasonNJ | change that |
| 19:26.52 | treke | ibot forget zauruszone |
| 19:26.53 | TheMasterMind1 | ibot zauruszone is also "dead as a doornail", use docs.zaurus.com instead |
| 19:26.53 | | TheMasterMind1: okay |
| 19:27.50 | treke | zauruszone? |
| 19:28.00 | treke | ibot zauruszone? |
| 19:28.01 | | zauruszone is probably dead |
| 19:28.28 | JasonNJ | works for me |
| 19:29.14 | treke | redirect zauruszone.com to microsoft.com/pocketpc |
| 19:29.46 | JasonNJ | anyone watch the last episode of smallville? awesome |
| 19:29.50 | mewyn` | at this point, as i said, my next pda is prolly gonna be a palm |
| 19:29.52 | treke | saw part of it |
| 19:30.03 | JasonNJ | finally the show is getting good |
| 19:30.18 | JasonNJ | when they concentrate on teh superman shit and not the teen angst crap its good |
| 19:30.31 | JasonNJ | the last enterprise was totally bogus |
| 19:31.09 | Neo|Work | I haven't been following smallville |
| 19:32.27 | mewyn` | JasonNJ: i didn't think the last enterprise was bad. |
| 19:33.29 | JasonNJ | the only thing good about it was the return of the tholians |
| 19:33.43 | JasonNJ | but they didnt have them do the tholian web! |
| 19:33.57 | JasonNJ | what the hell is the point of having tholians without them doing the web? |
| 19:34.14 | Neo|Work | now Stargate SG-1, that is a rocking series |
| 19:34.27 | JasonNJ | I've lost track of that show |
| 19:34.45 | JasonNJ | ibot: tholians |
| 19:34.45 | | JasonNJ: i don't know |
| 19:34.52 | JasonNJ | stupid bot |
| 19:35.06 | chouimat | JasonNJ: yup |
| 19:35.22 | JasonNJ | ibot: google tholians |
| 19:35.23 | | JasonNJ: wish i knew |
| 19:35.40 | mewyn` | jason: i kinda wished they would have broken through the docking ports |
| 19:35.50 | chouimat | huh sg-1 is still on air |
| 19:36.02 | JasonNJ | mew: exactly. I wanted to see what they looked like! |
| 19:36.05 | treke | chouimat: SciFi does 4 episodes a night, every monday ;) |
| 19:36.25 | Neo|Work | chouimat: SciFi took over season 6 and there will be a season 7 |
| 19:36.34 | chouimat | ok I need digital tv to have it |
| 19:36.37 | Neo|Work | after that there will be a new show in the same universe (Stargate Atlantis) |
| 19:36.53 | Neo|Work | which will not be based on the military command type structure of SG-1 (or even based on earth) |
| 19:36.57 | chouimat | Neo|Work: I heard that daniel is back |
| 19:37.04 | Neo|Work | chouimat: will be in S7 yes |
| 19:37.12 | mewyn` | jason: well, they did show the tholian on TOS. but what i was wondering is how the crew would react to the tholian atmosphere |
| 19:37.20 | chouimat | Neo|Work: btw I ditched ulyx |
| 19:37.21 | treke | Neo|Work: from what I hear he comes back this friday |
| 19:37.26 | Neo|Work | chouimat: you need digital TV for SciFi? sux to be you. :P |
| 19:37.47 | JasonNJ | mew: yeah I wanted to see an updated tholian though |
| 19:37.53 | chouimat | Neo|Work: my cable co only give scifi on the digital services now |
| 19:37.57 | Neo|Work | treke: he's in there now and then, but he's not truely coming back until Season 7. has a major role in the S6 finale though |
| 19:38.00 | JasonNJ | I like the new andorians |
| 19:38.06 | mewyn` | yah |
| 19:38.11 | treke | Neo|Work: ah. I havent seen any of S6 yet :) |
| 19:38.11 | Neo|Work | but still as a "higher being" I believe |
| 19:38.47 | Neo|Work | I have ever sent SG-1 episode on my harddrive. :P |
| 19:39.01 | treke | Picked up the S1 dvds, enjoyed it, and at the same time SciFi started reshowing everything in order |
| 19:39.08 | treke | I've missed one or two episodes though |
| 19:39.12 | *** join/#zaurus sig (~sig@h-66-167-137-45.STTNWAHO.covad.net) |
| 19:39.26 | Neo|Work | SG-1 has become A LOT better than it was in the beginning (on average) |
| 19:39.34 | treke | yeah |
| 19:39.40 | Neo|Work | more continuation and stuff |
| 19:40.02 | Neo|Work | and characters evolve in major ways and stuff - things Star Trekkers only can dream of. hehe. :P |
| 19:40.20 | Neo|Work | even though Enterprise has some continuation and cause/effect between episodes |
| 19:40.35 | Neo|Work | Teal'c is the "spock" of SG-1 for sure. :P |
| 19:40.47 | JasonNJ | he is a cool character |
| 19:41.06 | Neo|Work | http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=SL-C700 |
| 19:41.50 | treke | why is it under psions? :) |
| 19:41.53 | Neo|Work | and I like the fact that they are bringing Daniel back. It's going to work well in the realms of the universe of SG-1 (meaning it'll be probable, not silly) |
| 19:42.05 | Neo|Work | treke: who the fsck knows |
| 19:42.12 | icefox | Enterpise is junk. I can't belive that it is still around. Then again I can't believe that FireFly was canceled. Now that was a good show. |
| 19:42.19 | Neo|Work | "Psion, Symbian & Linux Department" |
| 19:42.26 | warmi | I wonder if this is about Japanese version ? |
| 19:42.27 | Neo|Work | Firefly was awesome |
| 19:42.31 | Neo|Work | warmi: it is, yes |
| 19:42.43 | JasonNJ | firefly was great |
| 19:42.47 | Neo|Work | probably fixed as dynamism but there is no non-Japanese version.. |
| 19:43.01 | Neo|Work | I especially enjoyed the episode where they stormed the space station |
| 19:43.21 | *** join/#zaurus mbot (~mbot@modemcable120.184-130-66.que.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 19:43.31 | Neo|Work | the crazy what's-her-name's shooting-while-not-looking was ... nice. :P |
| 19:43.33 | JasonNJ | the show was about NOT getting into space battles |
| 19:43.37 | warmi | Neo|Work: do you know if your games work on C 700 ( in emulation mode ) ? |
| 19:43.43 | Neo|Work | warmi: they do afaik |
| 19:43.47 | icefox | I think the bounty hunter one was my favorite. You would _never_ see that on star trek |
| 19:43.52 | JasonNJ | not sure how far they could go without aliens though |
| 19:43.58 | JasonNJ | every colony looked basically teh same |
| 19:44.00 | chouimat | Neo|Work: look at my new mbot, no lart command :) |
| 19:44.05 | chouimat | mbot weather CYQB |
| 19:44.16 | Neo|Work | the whole universe was very strange and they had some major blunders too |
| 19:44.35 | Neo|Work | such as "100s of planets" in the same solar system type stuff. :P |
| 19:44.42 | Neo|Work | chouimat: heh |
| 19:44.42 | JasonNJ | yeah that made no sense |
| 19:44.45 | icefox | I think the whole our ship can actually take damage cool, more relistic idea |
| 19:45.15 | Neo|Work | that show had A LOT of character development potentials |
| 19:45.28 | Neo|Work | and that is what makes Angel and Buffy so good imho - characters change |
| 19:45.35 | icefox | while Enterprise gets a large chunk out of it and is zipping around by the end of the episode |
| 19:45.47 | Neo|Work | right, it's Star Trek |
| 19:45.58 | Neo|Work | they always can repair whatever damage they have more or less. :P |
| 19:46.05 | Neo|Work | except that automated repair station episode |
| 19:46.06 | icefox | exactly which is why I hardly watch it anymore. |
| 19:46.12 | frankps | anyone that have tried to install tkcMail here? |
| 19:46.13 | Neo|Work | that episode was quite fun |
| 19:46.24 | treke | tkcMail is out? |
| 19:46.50 | Neo|Work | You know, BigBoss is rarely ever around anymore |
| 19:46.57 | Neo|Work | did someone piss him off? :) |
| 19:46.59 | icefox | Or the episodes that Enterprise has that you can tell is for nothing more then to get some character development of someone. |
| 19:47.36 | icefox | TV guide this week on the cover says "Can Star Trek be saved?" or something like that |
| 19:47.37 | Neo|Work | the minefield one? |
| 19:48.34 | *** join/#zaurus weatherbot (~weatherbo@modemcable120.184-130-66.que.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 19:48.34 | frankps | I can install all other of their apps with the new thekompany file, but not the tkcMail :-( |
| 19:48.37 | Neo|Work | if so, that was typical really bad ST episode |
| 19:48.46 | icefox | I think TNG 7th season was the high for start trek (with a _few_ really good Voyages - sidenot that 2 parter I think that was 5/6 season was movie quality imo) |
| 19:49.40 | Neo|Work | SG-1 has had some of the best season finale cliffhangers and season pilots of any series I've seen I think |
| 19:49.47 | chouimat | weatherbot: weather cyqb |
| 19:49.48 | weatherbot | Current conditions at Quebec, Que, Canada: It is -14 C (6 F), windspeed is 16.09 km/h, and visibility is 48.28 km. (Information current as of 2003.02.26 1900 UTC). |
| 19:50.17 | mewyn` | sounds like fun |
| 19:50.32 | Neo|Work | there's one particular one where there's 4 episodes, three that explicetdly fits together, one that is rather bad flashback oen but still has a disctinct indirect continuation, that's just awesome |
| 19:51.09 | icefox | NeoTron: The Flashback firefly episode one right? |
| 19:52.06 | mewyn` | brrrr |
| 19:54.59 | Neo|Work | icefox: I was talking about SG1 |
| 19:55.10 | icefox | ah |
| 19:55.59 | Neo|Work | namely end of S1 and beginning of S2 |
| 19:56.00 | *** join/#zaurus mrluisp (~mrluisp@pcp01584564pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net) |
| 19:56.21 | Neo|Work | but perhaps I remembered incorrectly - it's only 2 strongly related and one less so but still relevant |
| 19:56.44 | treke | two |
| 19:57.33 | Neo|Work | no, wait |
| 19:57.33 | treke | one was the senator showing up and closing the facility, one was them disobeying orders and going through the gate to the ship, and then the one where they blow up the ship |
| 19:57.41 | Neo|Work | it's also the one before that |
| 19:57.47 | Neo|Work | "There but for the grace of god" |
| 19:57.57 | treke | I dont recall what was before the senator |
| 19:58.08 | Neo|Work | "An alien artifact transports Daniel to an alternate reality, where he is not a part of the Stargate program and the Goa'uld -- led by Teal'c -- are invading Earth." |
| 19:59.06 | Neo|Work | it's the reason that they disobey orders in the season finale |
| 19:59.57 | treke | they do that alot :) |
| 20:00.15 | Neo|Work | not as much as one would think |
| 20:00.22 | TheMasterMind1 | when did this become #tvshows ? |
| 20:00.38 | Neo|Work | but it is true that SG1 and the program often almost-fuck-up earth due to clumsiness |
| 20:00.41 | Neo|Work | and they never learn. :P |
| 20:01.21 | Neo|Work | "Oh, let's bring home this alien device that is far beyond our understanding. we don't THINK it does anything bad using our very-lowtech-in-comparision sensor equipment" |
| 20:01.25 | treke | TheMasterMind1: about a half an hour ago |
| 20:01.26 | Neo|Work | I mean, wtf? time and again. :P |
| 20:01.52 | TheMasterMind1 | treke: ah, alright |
| 20:02.28 | icefox | http://home.att.net/~slugbutter/evil/ |
| 20:02.32 | icefox | I am pure evil :-D |
| 20:02.49 | chouimat | Neo|Work: look at that |
| 20:02.53 | chouimat | weatherbot: rfc ftp |
| 20:02.57 | weatherbot | 49 Matches in RFCs: 0238, 0412, 0414, 0438, 0448, 0458, 0463, 0468, 0475, 0478, 0479, 0480, 0506, 0520, 0532, 0571, 0593, 0630, 0640, 0683, 0691, 0697, 0737, 0743, 0751, 0775, 0783, 0906, 0949, 1068, 1350, 1415, 1545, 1579, 1635, 1639, 1782, 1783, 1784, ... |
| 20:03.19 | kergoth | weatherbot: rfc 0238 |
| 20:03.21 | weatherbot | 0238 Comments on DTP and FTP proposals. R.T. Braden. Sep-29-1971. |
| 20:03.22 | weatherbot | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:03.23 | weatherbot | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:03.57 | mewyn` | rfc avian carrier |
| 20:04.03 | mewyn` | weatherbot rfc avian carrier |
| 20:04.35 | kergoth | weatherbot: rfc avian |
| 20:04.37 | weatherbot | 2 Matches in RFCs: 1149, 2549 |
| 20:04.41 | kergoth | weatherbot: rfc 1149 |
| 20:04.44 | weatherbot | 1149 Standard for the transmission of IP datagrams on avian carriers. |
| 20:04.45 | weatherbot | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:04.46 | weatherbot | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:04.46 | kergoth | mewyn`: the space probably borked it |
| 20:04.47 | weatherbot | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:04.59 | mewyn` | but space is the final frontier! |
| 20:05.00 | chouimat | weatherbot: rfc 2549 |
| 20:05.03 | weatherbot | 2549 IP over Avian Carriers with Quality of Service. D. Waitzman. |
| 20:05.04 | weatherbot | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:05.05 | weatherbot | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:05.06 | weatherbot | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:05.20 | kergoth | hehe |
| 20:05.33 | chouimat | kergoth: IP over Avian Carriers withQuality of Service ???? wtf???? |
| 20:05.48 | kergoth | hehe |
| 20:05.49 | kergoth | read it |
| 20:05.51 | kergoth | amusing |
| 20:07.24 | mewyn` | i want to make an addendum to it for using bar codes |
| 20:08.30 | mewyn` | brrr |
| 20:09.18 | Neo|Work | icefox: I am good. :P |
| 20:18.57 | *** join/#zaurus kurre_ (~kurre@ncircle.nullnet.fi) |
| 20:22.01 | treke | warmi: you around? |
| 20:23.24 | *** join/#zaurus mrluisp (~mrluisp@pcp01584564pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:23.30 | warmi | yeah |
| 20:23.51 | warmi | I was on a conference call |
| 20:23.58 | treke | warmi: do you still have that app you used to compare memory access on the ipaq to the zaurus? I want to give it a shot on the 3600 |
| 20:24.35 | warmi | well, it runs on PPC |
| 20:24.42 | warmi | you still want it ? |
| 20:24.44 | treke | its running ppc |
| 20:25.42 | warmi | I will get you a binary |
| 20:25.52 | treke | thanks |
| 20:26.03 | warmi | and you will tell me how many sprites the app was able to pull |
| 20:26.10 | mewyn` | headline from fark: Chicago's Mayor Daley reelected to 5th term despite record low turnout of dead voters |
| 20:26.11 | warmi | on the zaurus I am getting 500 or so |
| 20:26.33 | treke | ha |
| 20:27.00 | warmi | on ipaq 3835 I was getting 290 |
| 20:27.13 | warmi | heheeh |
| 20:27.20 | treke | hehe |
| 20:27.29 | mewyn` | warmi: did you get windows ce running on the Z? |
| 20:27.49 | warmi | no, I never tried |
| 20:27.53 | kergoth | heh, like thats gonna happen |
| 20:28.15 | warmi | since my blitting code is written in ASM it runs just as well on PPC as it does on the zaurus |
| 20:28.24 | mewyn` | ah |
| 20:28.55 | warmi | treke: what's screen rotation on 3600 ? |
| 20:28.56 | Neo|Work | warmi: "sprites able to pull"? :P |
| 20:29.00 | Neo|Work | same as 5500 |
| 20:29.08 | icefox | isn't power pc a differnt arch? |
| 20:29.12 | Neo|Work | on the 3835, how do you access the screen? |
| 20:29.14 | Neo|Work | icefox: PocketPC |
| 20:29.15 | icefox | oh Pocket PC |
| 20:29.16 | icefox | :-D |
| 20:29.34 | Neo|Work | you can't use the GAPI screen pointer on the 38xx |
| 20:29.40 | treke | warmi: same as the 3600 |
| 20:29.43 | warmi | Neo|Work: I plugged my code into GapiDraw library |
| 20:29.44 | treke | er 5500 |
| 20:29.48 | chouimat | http://busycooks.about.com/library/weekly/aa021603a.htm |
| 20:29.57 | warmi | yeah, you can - GAPI is busted on 3835 but there are workarounds |
| 20:30.10 | Neo|Work | warmi: I mean, you can't use the screen memory pointer given by gapi |
| 20:30.31 | warmi | Neo|Work: you need to use hardcoded memory addres ( which I don't remember now) |
| 20:30.38 | Neo|Work | because in the wisdom it gets a pointer to a memory buffer, rotated as the 3600, which si then rotated before displayed |
| 20:30.52 | Neo|Work | warmi: right, I know, just wanted to make sure you knew. :P |
| 20:30.52 | warmi | just like good old VGA mode ( which was something like A 00000 or whatever ) |
| 20:30.53 | warmi | hehe |
| 20:31.46 | warmi | Neo|Work: they did that because they wanted to accomodate bunch of older games which used hardcoded rotation code or somethign like taht |
| 20:32.01 | Neo|Work | right |
| 20:32.02 | Neo|Work | lame |
| 20:33.09 | warmi | treke: one more thing |
| 20:33.21 | warmi | does 3600 support 16 bit color ? |
| 20:33.37 | treke | 12bit |
| 20:33.53 | warmi | yeah, but that's internall - the memory buffer can be treated as 16 bit right ? |
| 20:33.55 | mewyn` | i wonder what's up with 12 bit color |
| 20:33.57 | treke | I dont know about wince, but it pretends to be 16 bit in linux |
| 20:34.06 | warmi | yeah, precisely |
| 20:34.28 | Neo|Work | 12 bit gfx always looks like 16 bit afaik |
| 20:34.46 | warmi | well, that's only 4096 as opposed to 65 K colors |
| 20:34.48 | Neo|Work | meaning, the memory buffer is 16 bit, the screen is not |
| 20:35.00 | Neo|Work | s/memory buffer/framebuffer memory/ |
| 20:35.11 | warmi | yeah. I think it is LCD that actually chops of the top 2 bits or something like that |
| 20:35.42 | warmi | I wonder if this is 565 or 555 device ... |
| 20:35.48 | Neo|Work | I asume 12 but is RGB 222 as opposed to RGB565 |
| 20:35.55 | Neo|Work | RGB444 I mean |
| 20:35.56 | Neo|Work | doh |
| 20:36.05 | Neo|Work | so I assume chopping off "2 bits" would work rather badly. :P |
| 20:36.16 | warmi | yeah |
| 20:36.16 | mewyn` | 222 would be kinda bad :) |
| 20:36.25 | warmi | what I mean, it does the magic internally |
| 20:36.29 | Neo|Work | and I don't think there's any RGB555 devices actually |
| 20:36.32 | Neo|Work | right |
| 20:36.37 | Neo|Work | mewyn: indeed. |
| 20:36.47 | Neo|Work | of course, Windows have had RGB232 or something like that |
| 20:36.48 | warmi | yeah, there are - GapiDraw does support 555 which means there are devices like that |
| 20:36.54 | warmi | I never seen one though |
| 20:37.02 | Neo|Work | warmi: doesn't have to mean there are such devices, really |
| 20:37.17 | mewyn` | why is the G always the one with the higher number of bits? |
| 20:37.32 | warmi | they who wrote this said he tested on both but he never mentioned which devices exactly |
| 20:37.44 | warmi | I wish there weren't any because it is a pain in the ass |
| 20:38.13 | treke | mewyn`: eye is more sensitive to green iirc |
| 20:38.23 | mewyn` | hrm |
| 20:43.12 | Neo|Work | right |
| 20:43.19 | warmi | generally this doesn't matter |
| 20:43.34 | warmi | it only matters when doing alpha blending , they you have to branch out your code |
| 20:44.03 | mewyn` | brr |
| 20:44.12 | warmi | they= then |
| 20:45.01 | mewyn` | god damn i hate these sites that gobble up domain names |
| 20:45.31 | warmi | Neo|Work: in the games you ported , when they do alpha blending they basically separate each color (r,g,b) - do multiplication and some logical operations on each and then put them back together ? |
| 20:45.35 | TheMasterMind1 | mewyn`: but they're so tasty.. |
| 20:50.22 | Neo|Work | warmi: afaik yes |
| 20:50.49 | Neo|Work | actually, I think 2Dream (Bust'em etc) do it incorrectly, essencially throwin away the lower bit of the G |
| 20:51.06 | Neo|Work | so the game is essentially RGB555 but with the lower bit of G always at 0 |
| 20:51.57 | warmi | I sniffed around the web and after some experimentation found a way to do this with only on multiplication per pixel but the alpha range is limited to 0-32 |
| 20:52.26 | warmi | which is not a big deal on device where color range is only 1 bit higher |
| 20:53.09 | warmi | using 0-255 is pretty much useless anyway since that really makes only sense for 24 bit color |
| 20:53.22 | Neo|Work | My friend had an algorithm that does alpha blending easier as well |
| 20:53.43 | Neo|Work | but afaik it handled 1 byte alpha but I'm not sure |
| 20:53.50 | Neo|Work | how does you stuff stor per-pixel alpha btw? |
| 20:54.21 | warmi | aditional array of the same size as main buffer ( 2 bytes per pixel) that was done in interest of speed |
| 20:54.54 | Neo|Work | 2 bytes per pixel? why 2 bytes? |
| 20:55.23 | mewyn` | 16 bits per pixel |
| 20:55.26 | hardwire | heheh |
| 20:55.35 | Neo|Work | by the way, out of curiosity, have you written c-equivalents of you asm methods? I.e using the same methologies |
| 20:55.51 | Neo|Work | well, yeah, bu for alpha? especially since he just said he just has 0-31. :P |
| 20:55.57 | warmi | one register holds two pixels ( 4 bytes) and this way I don't have to do any shifting etc .. |
| 20:56.17 | warmi | sacrifice space for speed |
| 20:56.23 | warmi | age old dillema |
| 20:56.37 | warmi | I work on two pixels at a time |
| 20:56.55 | Neo|Work | but alpha would still just have 1 byte per pixel |
| 20:57.08 | warmi | Neo|Work: yeah |
| 20:57.26 | Neo|Work | and I sitll want C-equivalents - I suspect they will perform quite well too. :P |
| 20:57.30 | warmi | actually you are right , :-) |
| 20:58.01 | Neo|Work | I plan to shamelessly steal your code for my engine you see. ;-) |
| 20:58.16 | warmi | yeah, I do have C versions |
| 20:58.27 | Neo|Work | not in the source tarfile though? or did I miss it? |
| 20:58.40 | warmi | it does 2 mutliplications per pixel though not one |
| 20:58.52 | Neo|Work | I meant in general, not just alpha |
| 20:58.56 | Neo|Work | i.e BitBlit, etc |
| 20:58.58 | warmi | yeah, it is |
| 20:59.11 | warmi | all of them have C versions - because I wanted to be able to run this on qvfb |
| 20:59.29 | warmi | and it runs very well |
| 20:59.29 | Neo|Work | right, but.. where are they? not in my source |
| 21:00.06 | warmi | each method has #ifndef USE_C |
| 21:00.07 | Neo|Work | in either case, have you compared asm and C versions on the zaurus? |
| 21:00.16 | Neo|Work | I know but the C version saren't anywhere! |
| 21:00.16 | warmi | for ASM and #else for C code |
| 21:00.24 | warmi | really ? |
| 21:00.25 | warmi | uh .. |
| 21:00.27 | warmi | let me see |
| 21:00.36 | Neo|Work | yeah. :P |
| 21:00.49 | Neo|Work | there's two c++ files - zsurface and zfont. no .c files |
| 21:00.52 | warmi | they are - I just downloaded the source code from my site |
| 21:01.10 | warmi | they are all in ZSurface.cpp |
| 21:01.18 | warmi | oh you mean like a C file not C++ |
| 21:01.20 | warmi | ? |
| 21:01.21 | warmi | hehe |
| 21:01.43 | Neo|Work | no, I mean a flipNormal method written in C etc |
| 21:01.50 | Neo|Work | I opnly see memcpy stuff... |
| 21:02.01 | Neo|Work | well, flipnormal is a bad example but |
| 21:02.21 | Neo|Work | I see, you have the C code inlined always |
| 21:02.29 | Neo|Work | I expected blitNormalAligned() C method |
| 21:02.31 | Neo|Work | etc |
| 21:02.42 | warmi | no, it is right in the method itself |
| 21:02.56 | Neo|Work | then I get it, sorry. :P |
| 21:02.59 | warmi | I never intended these to be used for anything else but testing code on qvfb |
| 21:03.04 | Neo|Work | so question remains, compared performance? :) |
| 21:03.16 | warmi | but these are about 30-70 % slower than ASM |
| 21:03.17 | Neo|Work | it's ALWAYS good to have equivalent backup methods in C. :P |
| 21:03.30 | warmi | depends on the method |
| 21:03.42 | Neo|Work | do they use the same methods (2-pixels at a time stuff etc)? |
| 21:04.01 | warmi | no, not really :-) |
| 21:04.06 | warmi | they are not optimized in that sense |
| 21:04.13 | Neo|Work | ok |
| 21:04.24 | warmi | anyway, have you tried to run the demo on A 300 ? |
| 21:04.28 | Neo|Work | what I'm getting at is that it would be interesting to see how much asm really buys you |
| 21:04.30 | warmi | I wonder how it performs on XScale device |
| 21:04.33 | Neo|Work | I haven't no |
| 21:04.39 | Neo|Work | forgot about it by the time I went home |
| 21:04.58 | warmi | so when you have time try .. and see what kind of fps you are getting |
| 21:05.04 | warmi | you said normally it is slower than 5500 |
| 21:05.10 | Neo|Work | it is yes |
| 21:05.21 | Neo|Work | I however think it might not be slower than, say, 5600.. |
| 21:05.25 | Neo|Work | or not by far at least |
| 21:05.31 | warmi | my asm code gets most of its speed from trying to optimize access to memory ... |
| 21:05.39 | warmi | I don't know how that will play out with XScale devices |
| 21:06.42 | warmi | btw .. Visual C++ for embedded is much better at optimizing ARM code |
| 21:06.47 | warmi | than gcc 2.9x |
| 21:06.53 | kergoth | thats not surprising |
| 21:06.57 | kergoth | it is gcc after all |
| 21:06.57 | kergoth | heh |
| 21:07.23 | warmi | generally, my code was only faster about 30--20% than Visual C++ generated optimized C code |
| 21:07.47 | kergoth | wonder how gcc3 woudl do |
| 21:07.52 | kergoth | worth testing |
| 21:08.01 | warmi | and it was 30-70 % faster when pitted against gcc 2.9x |
| 21:08.33 | warmi | Neo|Work: I did some RLE testing and it can be way .. way faster .. |
| 21:08.45 | warmi | I don't know - I tried with SDL and it was slower for me |
| 21:08.51 | warmi | I don't know what I was doing wrong |
| 21:10.30 | Neo|Work | cool http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/Images/lights_europe_lrg.gif |
| 21:10.34 | warmi | kergoth: yeah, but I wonder how much work went into improving ARM/Xscale verson of gcc |
| 21:10.51 | Neo|Work | warmi: told you RLE _can_ help |
| 21:11.18 | kergoth | warmi: i can _feel_ the difference in opie |
| 21:11.19 | Neo|Work | warmi: well, gcc IS the official compiler from intel for at least xscale.. |
| 21:11.21 | kergoth | warmi: so apparently quite a bit |
| 21:11.31 | warmi | hmm ... that's interesting |
| 21:11.40 | kergoth | warmi: its a big difference on the Z |
| 21:11.43 | kergoth | app start times |
| 21:11.45 | kergoth | responsiveness |
| 21:11.59 | kergoth | i want to play with prelink as well, should cut down the start times.. the 5500 will fly |
| 21:12.02 | kergoth | heh |
| 21:12.17 | warmi | yeah |
| 21:12.40 | mewyn` | what about gcc 3.2? |
| 21:12.57 | warmi | uh .. I just reread that .. Neo|Work - you said A 300 might NOT be slower than 5600 ? |
| 21:13.10 | warmi | I thought 5600 was based on 400 XScale |
| 21:13.16 | kergoth | it is |
| 21:13.22 | kergoth | but both a300 and b500/5600 are on buggy chips |
| 21:13.42 | Neo|Work | warmi: yes |
| 21:13.50 | kergoth | a300 will definately be slower, just maybe not as much as you'd think. |
| 21:14.07 | warmi | still, one would think that at least cached code would execute 2 as fast since the clock is twice as fast |
| 21:14.09 | Neo|Work | the 200 MHz cpu isn't necessarily hit by the same issues as the 400 MHz one |
| 21:14.45 | kergoth | Neo|Work: isnt the 200mhz a pxa250 as well? |
| 21:14.50 | kergoth | i should reallly read the errata |
| 21:15.09 | warmi | don't bother .. I gues it can be summed up with "it sucks " |
| 21:15.10 | warmi | hehe |
| 21:15.22 | warmi | or at least that's what I keep hearing from PPC developers |
| 21:16.34 | Neo|Work | kergoth: I believe it is, but the slower clockspeed doesn't trigger cache failures as much or something |
| 21:16.38 | Neo|Work | I don't know the details |
| 21:16.48 | Neo|Work | but again, I'll make IF work on it and we'll know for sure |
| 21:16.54 | Neo|Work | for that particular game that is |
| 21:17.38 | warmi | you mean on 5600 right ? |
| 21:17.46 | warmi | I wonder what kind of rotation this one will have |
| 21:18.03 | warmi | this rotation shit is just a pain in the ass ..:-) |
| 21:19.24 | mewyn` | warmi: you get a chance to talk to wolak yet? |
| 21:19.52 | warmi | mewyn: no not yet - I thought I heard him , but he is not in his office ... |
| 21:19.55 | warmi | I will let you know |
| 21:20.01 | mewyn` | k |
| 21:20.35 | warmi | oh, they are in the meeting for Phillips iPronto project |
| 21:20.43 | mewyn` | cool |
| 21:20.45 | warmi | (iPronto - $ 1600 TV remote ) |
| 21:20.48 | mewyn` | eep! |
| 21:20.56 | warmi | mewyn: he is just as pissed as your are believe me |
| 21:20.57 | mewyn` | and i thought the 300 dollar pronto was bad |
| 21:21.05 | warmi | yeah, there are two kinds |
| 21:21.14 | mewyn` | i'm not pissed, i'm just broke :) |
| 21:21.16 | warmi | the cheaper one goes for $200 I think |
| 21:21.21 | warmi | well, he is pissed |
| 21:21.22 | Neo|Work | warmi: I'm talking about the A300 |
| 21:21.28 | warmi | Neo|Work: ah ok .. |
| 21:21.42 | warmi | ldrr8,[r1],#4 |
| 21:21.44 | warmi | ldrr6,=0x003F003F |
| 21:21.50 | mewyn` | i also want to get my new laptop, and save up for this disney trip |
| 21:21.53 | warmi | this is why I keep alpha in 2 bytes |
| 21:22.05 | warmi | I can compare 4 bytes with one instruction |
| 21:22.09 | mewyn` | i'd like to put as much as i can in, to help get my friends down there :) |
| 21:22.09 | warmi | now I remember |
| 21:22.10 | warmi | hehe |
| 21:22.35 | Neo|Work | warmi: asm is mostly beyond my understanding |
| 21:22.37 | warmi | mewyn: yeah, he has been trying to get two positions filled |
| 21:22.52 | warmi | one is for ddue like you and another one for second , junior DBA |
| 21:23.10 | warmi | cause our ORacle DBA is so busy we can never get anything done |
| 21:23.47 | mewyn` | right now, i just want a good tech position |
| 21:24.17 | warmi | Neo|Work: basically it loads alpha value from memory ( 2 alpha values at a time) and compares them with 0x003F003F which is means opaque so it can skip doing expensive math |
| 21:24.35 | Neo|Work | I see |
| 21:24.42 | warmi | if you use the same format for alpha as you use for pixels you can load them from memory and compare without any shifting etc .. |
| 21:25.20 | mewyn` | warmi: did TMS do something for tivo? |
| 21:25.33 | warmi | they take out TV listings |
| 21:25.45 | warmi | our, that is |
| 21:26.37 | *** join/#zaurus simcon (~simcon@dial81-135-51-149.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 21:26.56 | mewyn` | gah. i wish i had a keyboard |
| 21:27.02 | mewyn` | for my tivo |
| 21:27.10 | warmi | well, I wished I had tivo |
| 21:27.13 | mewyn` | seting up a wishlist is a pain |
| 21:27.15 | warmi | wish even |
| 21:27.21 | mewyn` | you should get one |
| 21:27.27 | mewyn` | you can get some on the cheap |
| 21:27.28 | warmi | iPronto supports tivo |
| 21:27.39 | warmi | but it doesn't have keyboard either |
| 21:27.44 | warmi | btw - it runs linux |
| 21:28.07 | *** join/#zaurus ljp_work (~ljp@04-160.026.popsite.net) |
| 21:28.29 | warmi | it runs Java etc .. |
| 21:28.46 | warmi | but I have no clue who will shell out $1600 for this thing |
| 21:28.51 | mewyn` | now why did you tell me that. i don't wnat to have to buy a 1600 dollar remote :) |
| 21:29.01 | warmi | hehe |
| 21:29.03 | warmi | yeah, I know |
| 21:29.09 | warmi | they messed it up |
| 21:29.34 | warmi | because while it supports tivo for some stuff - you can use its build in tv listing interface to mark stuff for recording etc .. |
| 21:32.32 | *** join/#zaurus ACEDOG (~ACEDOG@acelap.physics.tamu.edu) |
| 21:34.06 | mewyn` | interesting |
| 21:34.18 | mewyn` | i may pay like 500 for something like that |
| 21:34.22 | mewyn` | but not 1600 |
| 21:34.40 | warmi | nah .. I wouldn't pay more than $100 for that |
| 21:34.54 | mewyn` | it's all about values |
| 21:35.04 | mewyn` | i guess i see more value in it than you do :) |
| 21:35.15 | mewyn` | kinda like the segway |
| 21:35.20 | mewyn` | i'd get one for 1000 |
| 21:35.23 | mewyn` | but not 5000 |
| 21:36.07 | warmi | iPronto uses soap to connect to our servers ( which are running orion java app server) and downloads tv listings |
| 21:36.29 | warmi | btw ... we used to use Oracle as a backend for this service - but now we are switching to mysql |
| 21:36.31 | mewyn` | you have any idea what the hardware specs are? |
| 21:36.36 | mewyn` | cool |
| 21:36.40 | warmi | iPronto hardware ? |
| 21:36.58 | Neo|Work | so how the fuck can it cost so much when say a tivo goes for $300 and up? |
| 21:37.21 | warmi | beats me |
| 21:37.24 | warmi | it does all kinds of shit |
| 21:37.32 | warmi | tivo and remote controls is just one of them |
| 21:37.41 | warmi | but still, if you ask me it is overpriced piece of crap |
| 21:38.15 | warmi | it has a web browser - resolution like 640x480 color lcd |
| 21:38.17 | warmi | shit like that |
| 21:38.28 | warmi | it looks cool but then again - it better considering price |
| 21:38.54 | Neo|Work | is it like a webpad type thing |
| 21:38.58 | Neo|Work | and smarthome controlelr etc |
| 21:38.59 | Neo|Work | ? |
| 21:39.04 | warmi | yeah, |
| 21:39.14 | Neo|Work | because if it is in the smart home area, the price is right where it should be |
| 21:39.14 | warmi | they call it "wireless home control panel" |
| 21:39.27 | Neo|Work | it's targeted at people who spends $200 to control a single light and stuff |
| 21:39.34 | warmi | mewyn: I am looking a the box and instruction .. |
| 21:39.37 | mewyn` | can it interact with x10, and other home automation, and work over wifi |
| 21:39.39 | warmi | and I can't find any specs |
| 21:40.01 | warmi | it is set-up box so I guess people shouldn't even care what happens inside |
| 21:42.22 | warmi | but I know it does run Linux |
| 21:43.20 | warmi | uh .. ok - it has ARM 206 Mhz CPU |
| 21:43.23 | warmi | so just like our Zaurus |
| 21:45.07 | warmi | mewyn: you mentioned something about cheap tivos |
| 21:45.12 | warmi | how cheap ? |
| 21:48.31 | Neo|Work | tivo's series 2 from $249 |
| 21:48.39 | warmi | that's not bad |
| 21:48.48 | Neo|Work | 40 hrs |
| 21:48.58 | warmi | well, the problem is that I don't watch that much tv anyway |
| 21:49.09 | Neo|Work | considering I payed $400 for a 60 hr one... |
| 21:49.13 | mewyn` | s2 directivo for 249, yah |
| 21:49.16 | Neo|Work | 80 hr is 349 |
| 21:49.16 | warmi | usually just news and sometimes history channel |
| 21:49.21 | mewyn` | that's for directivo |
| 21:49.25 | Neo|Work | mewyn: no, not directivo |
| 21:49.27 | Neo|Work | std series 2 |
| 21:49.31 | warmi | 40 hrs seems like plenty of time |
| 21:49.33 | Neo|Work | directivo is $299 |
| 21:49.35 | Neo|Work | 199 even |
| 21:49.57 | Neo|Work | warmi: it's not in my world |
| 21:50.05 | Neo|Work | we were a bit cramped at 60 hr |
| 21:50.15 | Neo|Work | I installed another 120 GB HD and now we're fine |
| 21:50.19 | warmi | so how do you find time to code .. |
| 21:50.20 | warmi | hehe |
| 21:50.22 | Neo|Work | mind you, series 2 is quite easy to upgrade |
| 21:50.40 | Neo|Work | that's the thing, often we don't watch shows at the time they are broadcast |
| 21:50.49 | mewyn` | i've seen s2 dtivo 199, 250 for s2 |
| 21:50.52 | Neo|Work | plus more importantly, we don't record at "40 hr quality" which is the lowest which sucks |
| 21:50.58 | mewyn` | s1 199, s2 250 |
| 21:50.59 | Neo|Work | rather most stuff is high or highest levels |
| 21:51.14 | Neo|Work | mewyn: that's what I just said |
| 21:51.23 | warmi | yeah, that makes sense - unless we are taling about "talking heads" kind of shows where it doesn't really matter |
| 21:51.24 | Neo|Work | 249 for 40hr s2 |
| 21:51.30 | Neo|Work | right |
| 21:51.42 | Neo|Work | but even so I generally don'y record at less than "medium" |
| 21:52.02 | warmi | well, so how is tivo doing financially ? |
| 21:52.08 | warmi | are they going to make it ? |
| 21:53.41 | Neo|Work | I have no clue actually but I think they are doing well |
| 21:53.49 | Neo|Work | they have so many users, relatively |
| 21:54.43 | mewyn` | warmi: i think they are doing ok, and if they do start to go under, someone will buy them for the name and customer base |
| 21:55.10 | warmi | yeah, they made name for themselves |
| 21:55.24 | mewyn` | yah, you can't buy brand recognition like that |
| 21:56.00 | mewyn` | gotta run some errands real quick |
| 22:02.23 | *** join/#zaurus frankps (~frankps@216-73-109-110.ocdc-01.net) |
| 22:26.22 | mspencer | I talked to Dynamism today. I ordered on Friday the 14th, and I'm currently number 12 in line for a C700. |
| 22:27.13 | mspencer | They say they preauthorized my credit card because they were going down the list weeding people out and whatnot -- they're getting a shipment in later this week which should have more than 12 in it. |
| 22:27.33 | mspencer | (just passing along information...) |
| 22:27.33 | kergoth | cool |
| 22:27.51 | mspencer | bbl... |
| 22:28.25 | kergoth | god i hate it when people have out of office autoreply replying to mails that were sent in response to mails they sent to a mailing list |
| 22:28.29 | kergoth | heh |
| 22:29.03 | warmi | mspencer: yeah, I have read that there are shortages of C 700 in Japan itself |
| 22:29.24 | warmi | let alone Dynamism :-) |
| 22:31.06 | kergoth | god i need money |
| 22:34.11 | Neo|Work | who doesn't? |
| 22:34.23 | Neo|Work | I always hate people that say "money doesn't make you happy" |
| 22:34.28 | Neo|Work | it sure as hell do |
| 22:35.06 | Neo|Work | if I had enough money so I didn't have to work a normal job and could buy what I wanted, I'd be very happy |
| 22:35.37 | treke | it may not make you happy, but it goes a long way towards making life tolerable |
| 22:36.15 | Neo|Work | I hate people who won the lottery and now say how miserable they are |
| 22:36.31 | Neo|Work | I mean, wtf dude - you're a moron if you can't be happy by being economically independant |
| 22:37.02 | warmi | well, money is just another "ingredient" of happiness. I mean if have a terminal cancer then all the money in the world won’t do you much good. |
| 22:37.30 | Neo|Work | all the money in world would make your end more interesting I think |
| 22:38.26 | Zarchon | Well, some people win the lottery and take the slow, long term payout option. |
| 22:38.29 | treke | warmi: sure it would, it would let you use the remaining time better than having to scrape to make ends meet |
| 22:38.35 | warmi | Neo|Work: beside there are plenty of cases of rich people commiting suicide etc .. |
| 22:38.42 | Zarchon | Thinking that it's better in the end. Of course, one should always take the lump sum payment. |
| 22:38.43 | Neo|Work | Zarchon: depeneind on the amount I probably would do that too |
| 22:38.43 | *** join/#zaurus weatherbot (~weatherbo@modemcable120.184-130-66.que.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 22:38.53 | Neo|Work | I mean, forever and ever have a very good income (for 25 yrs at least) |
| 22:39.00 | warmi | treke: I don't know if I could "enjoy" my remaining time no matter what :-) |
| 22:39.06 | Neo|Work | and lump sum might or might not be better |
| 22:39.07 | TheMasterMind1 | with that much money i'm sure you could pay enough scientists to find a way to save you from death |
| 22:39.12 | Zarchon | Nah, it ties you down too much. You're restricted from doing things that you would otherwise do with a large chunk of captial. |
| 22:39.15 | Neo|Work | I mean you get half the money right now |
| 22:39.52 | Zarchon | Is it that way? I thought it was just a steady drip |
| 22:39.59 | Zarchon | You get nailed by inflation in the end anyway |
| 22:40.11 | Neo|Work | no |
| 22:40.14 | treke | warmi: Well enjoy is a relative term :) |
| 22:40.28 | Neo|Work | if you take the lump sum you generally just get 50% of what you won |
| 22:40.41 | Neo|Work | or you can take the full sum over 25 yrs |
| 22:40.46 | Zarchon | true, but you haven't won it until it's in your bank account. |
| 22:41.06 | treke | warmi: I'd much rather have my last year to travel and say good bye to family and do the things I should have done before finding out I was dying |
| 22:41.21 | Neo|Work | and if you won 100million like the ppl did in WA some time ago, that's like over $300k / month |
| 22:41.25 | Neo|Work | which is hell of a good living |
| 22:41.45 | warmi | yeah, if I were to die I wouldn't wanna know when or even that I am dying .. |
| 22:41.45 | Neo|Work | I mean you could automatically buy a jet airplane on credit with that amount of guaranteed income |
| 22:41.45 | warmi | heh |
| 22:42.06 | treke | warmi: Yeah, I dont particularly want to know the time and place :) |
| 22:42.10 | Zarchon | well, if you win 100million, it doesn't necessairly matter what fraction of it you take, if you're just raising your standard of living. |
| 22:42.26 | Neo|Work | $4m / year or %50M right now |
| 22:42.28 | treke | Neo|Work: You could reinvest it yourself |
| 22:42.39 | Neo|Work | $4m/year for 25 yrs that is |
| 22:42.46 | Neo|Work | treke: of course |
| 22:42.55 | treke | my questions is, is the rest of that 100m going to be waiting for me in 20 years |
| 22:42.55 | Neo|Work | and in reality that might end up making more sense |
| 22:42.57 | Zarchon | Yeah, and reinvesting is a bit easier if you've got a sufficiently large captial base |
| 22:43.04 | *** join/#zaurus angry (~angry@ool-4356628d.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 22:43.07 | Neo|Work | I'm just saying, $4m / year is a fupping large amount of cash |
| 22:43.12 | Neo|Work | I could do anything I wanted from that |
| 22:43.17 | Zarchon | no argument there. :-) |
| 22:43.25 | Neo|Work | like building my $10m dream home and paying it off in a few years |
| 22:43.29 | Neo|Work | like 5 yr loan. :P |
| 22:43.40 | *** join/#zaurus raceme[away] (~tof@abidos.raceme.org) |
| 22:43.48 | Neo|Work | but we all know investing can be dangerous |
| 22:44.25 | Zarchon | yeah, but what else can you *do* with 100M? |
| 22:44.41 | Neo|Work | what do you mean? |
| 22:44.49 | treke | Zarchon: buy property. Like uhm, france |
| 22:44.53 | Zarchon | You can't realistically spend it on consumables, unless you're trying to break some kind of world record for decadence. |
| 22:44.57 | Neo|Work | oh, other than investing? keep in a bank account in switzerland? :) |
| 22:44.59 | Neo|Work | buy gold |
| 22:45.09 | Zarchon | treke: that'd count as an investment. :-) |
| 22:45.15 | treke | Zarchon: :) |
| 22:45.17 | Zarchon | buying gold is an investment |
| 22:45.20 | Zarchon | :-) |
| 22:45.21 | Neo|Work | there's different levels of investmnet |
| 22:45.33 | Neo|Work | I count things that bring risk to that |
| 22:45.42 | Zarchon | keeping in a bank acct in switzerland is doing nothing with it |
| 22:45.42 | Neo|Work | not putting the money in the bank, which in theory is investment too |
| 22:45.57 | Zarchon | personally, I think it'd be a pity to control $100M and not do something interesting with it. |
| 22:45.58 | Neo|Work | I think you could probably get 4-5% yearly interest safely doing that |
| 22:46.19 | Neo|Work | sl on 50M (1/2 the sum) you'd get 2.5M / year |
| 22:46.27 | Neo|Work | ...the first year... |
| 22:46.46 | Zarchon | I guess what I mean by investment is 'do interesting things with, preferably profitable things' |
| 22:46.49 | Neo|Work | so in actuallity, it's better to take the lump sum unless there's big tax drawbacks.. |
| 22:46.56 | Zarchon | not merely increase the size of the pile |
| 22:47.03 | Zarchon | yah |
| 22:47.09 | Neo|Work | I'd live life dammit. :P |
| 22:47.15 | Zarchon | the reason they offer more over the long term is that they get the interest. |
| 22:47.19 | Neo|Work | travel, buy houses, invest in LGP... :P |
| 22:47.28 | Neo|Work | Zarchon: of course |
| 22:47.29 | Zarchon | hehe |
| 22:47.43 | warmi | come on - stop whining - as far as income is concerned , you all are in the top 10% bracket of the population of this world anyway |
| 22:47.50 | Zarchon | not me |
| 22:47.53 | warmi | :-) |
| 22:48.01 | warmi | I said "world " |
| 22:48.01 | Zarchon | I'm just above the poverty line, being a grad student. |
| 22:48.02 | warmi | :-) |
| 22:48.03 | Neo|Work | warmi: top 10%? doubt it |
| 22:48.09 | *** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-435182be.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 22:48.11 | Neo|Work | actually, it'd be fun to know what 10% means |
| 22:48.13 | Zarchon | top 15-20% |
| 22:48.15 | Neo|Work | ...in the US ... |
| 22:48.22 | Neo|Work | got any numbers? |
| 22:48.32 | warmi | I am in top 10 in US |
| 22:48.32 | Zarchon | although if you include cockroaches, I may be in the top 10%. |
| 22:48.36 | warmi | but that's not a big deal |
| 22:48.44 | mewyn` | how much money? |
| 22:48.50 | warmi | all you have to do is to have 100 000 family income |
| 22:49.00 | Neo|Work | point being, after expenses, I have no money |
| 22:49.04 | Neo|Work | and my wife doesn't work so... |
| 22:49.08 | Zarchon | well, I've got relatives there |
| 22:49.23 | Zarchon | but who cares? we all know the really important people are the ones in the top .01% anyways. :-) |
| 22:49.37 | warmi | come on , if you are making 80 K and your wife makes like another 40-50 you are in top 10 |
| 22:49.42 | Neo|Work | I was above that one year during the mids of the internet bubble but that's because of the valinux stock options that netted me like $25000 in one day. :P |
| 22:49.50 | warmi | and according to Democrats you are one of these rich bastards .. |
| 22:49.53 | Zarchon | I hope you sold. |
| 22:50.05 | Neo|Work | warmi: I don't make that and my wife doesn't work, so bleh on you |
| 22:50.23 | Zarchon | lol |
| 22:50.30 | warmi | well, still - the average is like 30 K or so |
| 22:50.31 | Neo|Work | but I'm not arguing that I am not doing well. it just isn't enough when you have the house, 2 kids, wife, 2 cars etc to take care of |
| 22:50.37 | warmi | so you are still above that |
| 22:50.43 | *** join/#zaurus wouter (~wouter@ipd50a763e.speed.planet.nl) |
| 22:51.34 | warmi | mewyn: my original point was that compared to the rest of the world - even being under the poverty level means nothing - of course the costs of living are higher but still |
| 22:51.44 | warmi | you are not in danger of dying of hunger or anything like that |
| 22:51.47 | warmi | hardly anyone is in US |
| 22:51.54 | warmi | uh .. time for gym |
| 22:52.03 | mewyn` | warmi: did you find wolak? |
| 22:52.18 | warmi | no, he still in Brodsky office |
| 22:52.24 | mewyn` | damn |
| 22:52.29 | warmi | I will talk to him after I came back from gym |
| 22:52.36 | mewyn` | ok |
| 22:52.38 | warmi | I will let you know when I get on irc at home |
| 22:52.40 | Neo|Work | and besides, the point in the end of the line is that more money would make most people more happy |
| 22:52.42 | Neo|Work | dammit. :P |
| 22:52.57 | warmi | yeah, no argument there |
| 22:53.25 | Neo|Work | And that I wouldnt' mind say 50k more a year. :P |
| 22:53.54 | mewyn` | i wouldn't mind 50k a year |
| 22:54.44 | warmi | I was lucky to get a job here at Trib when the going was good |
| 22:55.16 | mewyn` | yah |
| 22:55.20 | warmi | the salaries were inflated back then and , despite the fact that I was taking a hit compared to getting a job at some consulting place . |
| 22:55.36 | warmi | in the end , it is safet here as far as job security goes |
| 22:55.40 | mewyn` | but you got the big coporation to leech off of :) |
| 22:56.10 | warmi | Tribune is not that big - I mean it is part of F 500 but it is not huge |
| 22:56.22 | warmi | I think it has all said like 10 K people working directly for them |
| 22:56.44 | mewyn` | still pretty big |
| 22:57.26 | warmi | well, they gotten bigger after they bought LA Times |
| 22:57.50 | mewyn` | the trib is owned by the la times? |
| 22:57.58 | warmi | no, the other way around |
| 22:58.06 | Zarchon | actually, there are people in the appalaichian mountains who do occasionally starve. |
| 22:58.08 | mewyn` | ah |
| 22:58.09 | mewyn` | ok |
| 22:58.23 | mewyn` | i read that wrong |
| 22:58.39 | treke | which is iirc the poorest region in the country |
| 22:58.45 | Zarchon | yep |
| 22:58.56 | warmi | Zarchon: well, that's their choice |
| 22:59.12 | warmi | I mean even with the Mc Donald salary , you can still survive - barely but you can |
| 22:59.16 | warmi | the food is very cheap in US |
| 22:59.26 | Zarchon | to a certain extent, I'd agree with you, but there aren't many mcdonalds in appalachia. |
| 22:59.48 | mewyn` | the could move out of the boonies and into a city |
| 22:59.52 | Zarchon | there isn't much of an economy there lately |
| 22:59.54 | warmi | Zarchon: well, there aren't many jobs in Arctica either .. |
| 22:59.57 | warmi | hehe .. |
| 23:00.14 | mewyn` | or they can farm their land for their own food |
| 23:00.30 | Zarchon | they're in the mountains. not much arable land. |
| 23:00.39 | Zarchon | but yes, they're not all locked into being there |
| 23:00.47 | Zarchon | and for the most part, people do leave |
| 23:00.55 | Neo|Work | warmi: I don't get how people with McD salary survives in CA |
| 23:01.07 | Zarchon | most of the younger generations. those that are left, are the ones without the skills or inclination to leave. |
| 23:01.16 | warmi | Neo|Work: yeah, but they do have a choice - they can move to some other part of the country |
| 23:01.20 | Zarchon | they live with their parents? |
| 23:01.25 | warmi | it can be painfull but it is a choice |
| 23:01.26 | mewyn` | neo: you have to roomate in shit-assed poor areas, but the can survive |
| 23:01.59 | Neo|Work | warmi: my comment was mostly pointing to the fact that in certain areas of the US, a small appartment can cost more than a high level McD employee makes in months... :P |
| 23:02.27 | warmi | yeah, I know |
| 23:02.39 | *** part/#zaurus ACEDOG (~ACEDOG@acelap.physics.tamu.edu) |
| 23:02.45 | warmi | but on the other hand people who work at these places tend to live with their parents |
| 23:03.34 | warmi | anyway, I completely agree - instead of spreading out thin with social programs they should limit it to people who really need this stuff |
| 23:03.37 | warmi | disabled etc .. |
| 23:03.47 | warmi | people who truly just can't make in this society |
| 23:05.02 | warmi | altought , from my experience , these people tend to be very proud and actually try to take care of themselves as well as they can without asking for handouts |
| 23:05.36 | Neo|Work | ah, fuck the poor, bless the rich kind of politics |
| 23:05.46 | Neo|Work | you're obviously very republican |
| 23:05.55 | warmi | well, without rich you would have only poor ;-) |
| 23:06.32 | mewyn` | i'm someone who likes a somewhat even distribution of wealth |
| 23:06.43 | Neo|Work | the very rich can afford 1-5% more taxes and such money could go A LONG WAY |
| 23:06.50 | Neo|Work | but alas, no politics here |
| 23:06.56 | Neo|Work | it's not the place and we can argue forever |
| 23:07.08 | Neo|Work | I disagree almost 100% with anything republicans come up with |
| 23:07.09 | mewyn` | yah |
| 23:07.53 | warmi | the reason I am so republican that I had enough of socialism and any time I see shit about "workers" , "rich" etc .. I tend to puke |
| 23:07.59 | warmi | :-) |
| 23:08.11 | warmi | yeah, in this regard I am biased |
| 23:08.35 | Neo|Work | The US doesn't hardly have "socialism" |
| 23:08.43 | Neo|Work | Democrats hardly qualify as that |
| 23:09.05 | Neo|Work | but in either case, one more word from anyone and I go kicking and we all don't wnat that. :P |
| 23:09.39 | *** join/#zaurus Leaves (Leif@d141-185-136.home.cgocable.net) |
| 23:09.40 | treke | so we can have discussions without fear of being kicked |
| 23:09.59 | *** mode/#zaurus [+b *!*@12.107.12.*] by Neo|Work |
| 23:09.59 | warmi | yeah, like that guy said in "heat" - " it is a free country, brother" |
| 23:10.00 | warmi | hehe |
| 23:10.04 | *** kick/#zaurus [treke!~neotron@207.188.30.40] by Neo|Work (dissident!) |
| 23:10.07 | Neo|Work | :) |
| 23:10.16 | *** mode/#zaurus [-b *!*@12.107.12.*] by Neo|Work |
| 23:10.20 | *** join/#zaurus treke (~ggilbert@12.107.12.130) |
| 23:10.24 | warmi | anyone seen "heat" ? |
| 23:10.41 | Neo|Work | this is not a democracy and there is no such thing as free speech! ;-) |
| 23:10.50 | treke | heat, that was DeNiro and Pacino, right? |
| 23:10.56 | warmi | treke: yeah, that one |
| 23:11.04 | warmi | a classic if you ask me |
| 23:11.19 | warmi | another one was "the professional" |
| 23:11.22 | warmi | with Reno |
| 23:11.27 | treke | One of the few movies I couldnt guess the ending of |
| 23:11.27 | mashi | well.. |
| 23:11.40 | mashi | what's version of pkg-config in debian ? |
| 23:11.52 | mashi | i mean latest.. i just install 30r1 it said 0.11 |
| 23:12.06 | warmi | ayone runs Debian ? |
| 23:12.15 | treke | I do |
| 23:12.21 | TheMasterMind1 | i do i do |
| 23:12.21 | mashi | i just install debian |
| 23:12.42 | warmi | so now you are stuck with mashis question :-) |
| 23:13.09 | mashi | first time to use debian |
| 23:14.44 | mashi | themastermind1 ? |
| 23:14.46 | kergoth | mashi: /join #debian |
| 23:14.54 | warmi | if wanted to drop a nuke somewhere in Europe - this would a map to use as a guide :http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/Images/lights_europe_lrg.gif |
| 23:14.57 | kergoth | #zaurus != debian support channel |
| 23:15.04 | warmi | Neo posted this earlier |
| 23:15.47 | mashi | ker : argh.. because of OZ. i install debian.. end up pkg-config is too old |
| 23:15.51 | *** join/#zaurus vhalros (~vhalros@syr-24-59-96-194.twcny.rr.com) |
| 23:16.02 | TheMasterMind1 | wtf is pkg-config |
| 23:16.18 | kergoth | mashi: ? so install pkg-config. |
| 23:16.22 | mashi | i do |
| 23:16.30 | mashi | it is 0.11 |
| 23:16.30 | kergoth | then get on something other than stable |
| 23:16.36 | kergoth | or enable pkg-config in the buildroot itself |
| 23:16.43 | mashi | maybe |
| 23:16.47 | kergoth | maybe what? |
| 23:16.49 | kergoth | i'm telling you. |
| 23:16.59 | mashi | use compile pkg-config in buildroot |
| 23:17.14 | mashi | how come debian come with 0.11 ? |
| 23:17.30 | kergoth | how the fuck should i know? |
| 23:17.43 | kergoth | ask them |
| 23:18.00 | warmi | yeah, I always said debian was evil ... |
| 23:18.01 | warmi | hehe |
| 23:18.15 | mashi | warmi : a lot of people think debian is good :> |
| 23:18.25 | warmi | yeah, I know - I am just kidding |
| 23:19.35 | mewyn` | warmi: i thought you were going to the gym |
| 23:20.12 | warmi | Yeah, I will go in about 20 minuts - I already missed my train so there is no need to rush there now |
| 23:20.40 | mewyn` | ah |
| 23:20.42 | warmi | usually I will go for 1 h to gym and then take 6:65 from Union Station |
| 23:20.51 | warmi | 6:45 that is |
| 23:21.00 | warmi | next one is at 7:40 |
| 23:21.13 | warmi | so if I go to gym at 6 it will be about right |
| 23:21.14 | mewyn` | give me a msg if you find wolak... i'm gonna head out to school at 6 |
| 23:21.20 | warmi | yeah, ok |
| 23:21.23 | *** join/#zaurus raceme[a1ay] (~tof@abidos.raceme.org) |
| 23:23.56 | warmi | yeah, looks like Wolak is still in the meeting with iPronto guys |
| 23:24.05 | mewyn` | big meeting |
| 23:24.14 | warmi | they are launching the whole thing |
| 23:24.27 | warmi | I mean it has been up for a month or two now |
| 23:24.34 | warmi | but now they are going official with it |
| 23:24.52 | mewyn` | ah |
| 23:25.19 | warmi | we had bunch of people visiting us from Europe couple of times |
| 23:25.26 | warmi | some Dutch and French dudes |
| 23:25.49 | warmi | they were bitching about crappy job market there as well |
| 23:26.11 | mewyn` | you'd think that since they are launching a new deal, it'd make it easy to hire more people |
| 23:26.28 | warmi | so I guess, no matter where you go , when the economy is down - it is down everywhere |
| 23:26.40 | mewyn` | yah |
| 23:26.47 | warmi | yeah, people who worked on it got $1500 CDW certificats |
| 23:26.56 | mewyn` | cool |
| 23:26.57 | warmi | certificates even |
| 23:27.12 | warmi | well, I don't know ;-) |
| 23:27.19 | mewyn` | that would go a long way with my friend's discounts |
| 23:27.32 | warmi | you know they are making like 40 K a month for this |
| 23:27.45 | warmi | from this deal with Phillips |
| 23:27.59 | mewyn` | cool |
| 23:29.13 | warmi | what was your discount there ? |
| 23:29.34 | warmi | Tribune employes have some sort of discount at CDW anyway .. |
| 23:29.42 | mewyn` | i can get 1% over cost, or at cost |
| 23:29.43 | warmi | nothing great but ever % point helps :-) |
| 23:30.06 | warmi | mewyn: you mean at warehouse cost ? |
| 23:30.20 | mewyn` | yah, landed cost |
| 23:30.21 | warmi | warehouse price cost ? |
| 23:30.29 | warmi | that's pretty good deal |
| 23:30.38 | warmi | this means like what 20% off ? |
| 23:30.43 | mewyn` | not usually |
| 23:30.49 | mewyn` | their markup isn't that high |
| 23:31.08 | warmi | still, it is cheaper |
| 23:31.12 | mewyn` | ah |
| 23:31.13 | mewyn` | yah |
| 23:31.20 | warmi | I know CDW is not the cheapest place to begin with but still |
| 23:31.51 | mewyn` | it usually puts the price with tax a little below advertised price |
| 23:33.23 | mewyn` | thing that sucks, i can't get my next laptop at cdw |
| 23:33.31 | warmi | ? |
| 23:34.06 | mewyn` | fujitsu went to direct marketing a while back, and cdw had to stop selling them |
| 23:34.14 | warmi | ah |
| 23:34.27 | mewyn` | i want that p2120 |
| 23:36.22 | mewyn` | something i'd like to do is bring it and my phone into disney and say high, blog, and upload pictures right from the park :) |
| 23:41.58 | warmi | that's too high tech man |
| 23:42.14 | warmi | there has to be a catch somewhere |
| 23:42.17 | warmi | sounds to easy |
| 23:42.33 | warmi | :-) |
| 23:43.41 | *** join/#zaurus raster (~raster@203.206.217.82) |
| 23:44.37 | mewyn` | i like the new 3g network sprint has |
| 23:45.42 | mewyn` | but i thought it'd be cool being on the net while down there |
| 23:46.05 | warmi | yeah, gym time - I will let you know if I learn something later |
| 23:46.09 | mewyn` | ok |
| 23:50.00 | *** join/#zaurus oGMo (~rpav@208.187.9.92) |
| 23:55.33 | kergoth | argh |
| 23:55.34 | kergoth | i need a drink |
| 23:57.00 | *** join/#zaurus cwaig (~cg2@adsl-195-184-237-106.mistral-uk.net) |
