| 00:03.43 | *** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-435182be.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 00:07.40 | *** join/#zaurus _Psycho_ (Bob@MTL-ppp-148846.qc.sympatico.ca) |
| 00:20.12 | *** join/#zaurus Altered (conjam@lachesis.0c3.net) |
| 00:22.05 | Altered | anything exciting happening with Zaurus development lately? |
| 00:23.05 | treke|laptop | nope |
| 00:23.25 | treke|laptop | all the developers decided qtopia sucks and bought pocket pcs |
| 00:23.34 | kergoth | hehe |
| 00:23.41 | Altered | hmm... guess I can get rid of my paperweight then ;) |
| 00:24.05 | mutexer | OpenZaurus 4.0 for the Pocket PC! |
| 00:24.53 | kergoth | ~lart mutexer |
| 00:24.57 | George- | yeh, I started a new project |
| 00:25.04 | George- | it's called OpenXP |
| 00:25.07 | mutexer | heh |
| 00:25.16 | George- | It's coming along rather nicely |
| 00:25.24 | George- | we've just about finished implementing all the DRM stuff |
| 00:25.35 | *** join/#zaurus SP-home (~sirpsycho@adsl-64-219-221-91.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 00:25.54 | mutexer | cool.. so I can like buy OpenXP mp3s? |
| 00:26.01 | George- | now the Microsoft (TM) Certified Remote Access for Corporations to Access your PDA (such as the RIAA and MPAA) is next on the list |
| 00:26.10 | Altered | so, I have a zaurus, what am I supposed to do with it now? |
| 00:26.31 | George- | and it has software in it to automatically launch a DDoS attack on your computer systems if you're caught with MP3s |
| 00:26.35 | kergoth | rename it Doom Presenter and make it run prboom all the time to show off to coworkers |
| 00:26.36 | mutexer | write a GBA emulator for it |
| 00:26.47 | George- | Altered: put OpenXP on it! Our motto is "Destroy your freedom!" |
| 00:26.53 | *** join/#zaurus ljp (~ljp@tf0154.peakpeak.com) |
| 00:27.35 | _Psycho | i though they was already a GBA emu |
| 00:27.37 | George- | ibot change 5,759.85 GBP to USD |
| 00:27.42 | George- | ibot change 5759.85 GBP to USD |
| 00:27.47 | Altered | mutexer: but I already have two GBA's... I don't need another. |
| 00:27.52 | George- | hrmm, nice |
| 00:27.58 | George- | 9,198 USD for a laptop |
| 00:28.07 | mutexer | I need an emulator.. I was just giving you a use for your PDA :) |
| 00:28.30 | krezel | George-: shite... what kind? |
| 00:28.38 | mutexer | There are GB emulators... havent seen a GBA one |
| 00:28.40 | Taim | Altered: write a program for it to remotely fling monkey feces at your enemys :) |
| 00:28.44 | George- | krezel: Apple PowerBook G4 :) |
| 00:28.50 | krezel | George-: 12"? |
| 00:28.56 | George- | krezel: 17" |
| 00:29.15 | krezel | Ah... thats the "My penis is too small so I'll buy a really big laptop" laptop :) jk |
| 00:29.16 | George- | krezel: with an extra 512MB DDR RAM, 20GB iPod, 23" Apple LCD, AppleCare etc etc |
| 00:30.15 | krezel | I'd say rather than buying the 23" Apple LCD, just get a second 17" powerbook, cluster them, and combine the desktops using VNC |
| 00:30.40 | mutexer | ibot ZSI |
| 00:30.50 | kergoth | krezel: hehe, good idea |
| 00:31.12 | krezel | How much does the 17" weigh? |
| 00:31.27 | George- | krezel: not much |
| 00:31.33 | krezel | The 12" is a freakign brick, its 5lbs! |
| 00:31.41 | mutexer | anyone know which one of the mame emulators are the best |
| 00:31.41 | George- | krezel: 5lbs isn't that heavy... |
| 00:32.00 | krezel | The apple guy who interviewed me was project director for all the bios stuff for the 12"er |
| 00:32.08 | George- | mutexer: Yeh, XPMame |
| 00:32.14 | George- | mutexer: It has DRM stuff! |
| 00:32.21 | krezel | he had one at the interview and we spent the first 15 min drooling over it :-D |
| 00:35.34 | *** join/#zaurus [George] (~Test@m79-mp1.cvx1-a.man.dial.ntli.net) |
| 00:36.23 | [George] | krezel: bios??? |
| 00:36.32 | krezel | Does anybody know of an MP3 stream player for Linux that will save the stream to disk by track rather than in just one big honking file? |
| 00:36.33 | [George] | krezel: wtf? a bios on a Mac?? UNHEARD OF! |
| 00:36.42 | krezel | OpenBios or whatever |
| 00:37.03 | krezel | all the bootstrap code. He says by the time the screen blinks, his job is done... |
| 00:37.39 | [George] | OpenFirmware!! It's OPENFIRMWARE |
| 00:37.43 | [George] | Stop CALLING IT BIOS! |
| 00:37.45 | [George] | lol |
| 00:37.46 | kergoth | lol |
| 00:38.01 | [George] | slacker. |
| 00:38.02 | [George] | =P |
| 00:38.07 | kergoth | and? :) |
| 00:38.12 | [George] | kergoth: hehe |
| 00:38.16 | krezel | hah sorry |
| 00:38.25 | krezel | I guess thats why they havent called me for a phone interview... |
| 00:38.28 | kergoth | hehe |
| 00:38.53 | krezel | apple loving fuckers... jk |
| 00:39.02 | treke|laptop | [George]: well it is a BIOS... |
| 00:39.13 | [George] | treke|laptop: DIE!!!! BASTARD!!!! SLACKER!!!! |
| 00:39.19 | krezel | whoa |
| 00:39.26 | [George] | BIOS != OPENFIRMWARE!!!!! |
| 00:39.33 | treke|laptop | [George]: if I wanted you to open your mouth I'd have unzipped my pants |
| 00:39.40 | [George] | CAN YOU RUN TELNET SERVERS ON A BIOS? =P |
| 00:39.53 | treke|laptop | on a sufficiently advanced one, yes |
| 00:40.14 | [George] | ....... |
| 00:40.23 | [George] | SHUT UP! |
| 00:40.33 | kergoth | LinuxBIOS.. |
| 00:40.33 | kergoth | heh |
| 00:40.44 | treke|laptop | LinuxBIOS runs an ssh server |
| 00:40.50 | krezel | heh |
| 00:40.52 | treke|laptop | non of that low tech insecure telnet crap |
| 00:41.06 | krezel | yep does OpenFirmware run SSH? Hmmmmm... Nope, does it? hmmmm |
| 00:41.17 | [George] | treke|laptop: DIE!!!! |
| 00:41.27 | treke|laptop | [George]: surrender |
| 00:41.55 | fishy | <m~Moron> zaurus is stupid |
| 00:42.03 | fishy | poor sad little person |
| 00:42.06 | fishy | and yes |
| 00:42.09 | fishy | that is his nick |
| 00:42.10 | treke|laptop | fishy: we dont use the word moron here |
| 00:42.16 | treke|laptop | fishy: we use the word Englishman |
| 00:42.23 | fishy | thats his name :) |
| 00:42.39 | treke|laptop | no exceptions |
| 00:42.44 | fishy | bah |
| 00:42.56 | [George] | NO |
| 00:43.04 | [George] | MORON != ENGLISHMAN |
| 00:43.09 | [George] | OPENFIRMWARE != BIOS |
| 00:43.11 | [George] | !!!! |
| 00:43.18 | krezel | hahaha |
| 00:43.30 | George`Steaming | GRRRRR |
| 00:43.39 | George`Steaming | DIE!!!! |
| 00:43.41 | George`Steaming | BASTARD!!!! |
| 00:43.44 | George`Steaming | ASSHOLES!!!! |
| 00:43.44 | kergoth | s/Steaming/Screaming/ |
| 00:43.46 | krezel | So how about that American Revolution? |
| 00:43.48 | ljp | George-: please take you daily allotted Ritalin! |
| 00:44.04 | krezel | And that War of 1812? |
| 00:44.06 | treke|laptop | George`Steaming: please take three times your daily alotted ritalin |
| 00:44.25 | treke|laptop | or can you not od on ritalin? |
| 00:44.26 | fishy | <m~dstar> zaurus is pretty sucky |
| 00:44.28 | kergoth | hehe |
| 00:44.39 | fishy | d00d thats a channe of lamers |
| 00:44.43 | fishy | channels* |
| 00:44.45 | kergoth | fishy: what chan? |
| 00:44.55 | ljp | its #george |
| 00:44.56 | George`Steaming | I HATE RITALIN |
| 00:44.58 | George`Steaming | I HATE IT!!! |
| 00:45.00 | fishy | #spacespider on irc.mircx.com |
| 00:45.03 | George`Steaming | IT TASTES SICK!!! |
| 00:45.06 | ljp | you are on it eh? |
| 00:45.09 | hobbs | stupid thing. :) |
| 00:45.19 | George`Steaming | kergoth: I'M USING SHIFT |
| 00:45.25 | kergoth | muahaha |
| 00:45.35 | *** join/#zaurus ||ugh (~hugh@road.toad.com) |
| 00:45.49 | treke|laptop | kergoth: hopefully you turned capslock off before stealing his key |
| 00:45.51 | ljp | caps lock should be banned from laymen's keyboards |
| 00:45.57 | kergoth | treke|laptop: hah |
| 00:46.04 | kergoth | ljp: we should all be stuck on sun keyboards |
| 00:46.07 | kergoth | ljp: hehe |
| 00:46.12 | treke|laptop | there is no valid use for the capslock keys on any keyboard |
| 00:46.17 | treke|laptop | happy hackers all around |
| 00:46.26 | kergoth | yea |
| 00:46.31 | hobbs | mmm. I want a nice sun keyboard. :) |
| 00:46.31 | George`Steaming | kergoth: IT DOESN'T REQUIRE A SHIFT/CAPS LOCK KEY TO MAKE AN APP THAT USES toupper() !!!! |
| 00:46.41 | kergoth | i'm a cheap bastard, need to buy a happy hacker |
| 00:46.42 | hobbs | failing that, I want an IBM PS/2 keyboard. |
| 00:46.52 | treke|laptop | I wonder if kergoths keyboard has a /kick key |
| 00:47.07 | ljp | I have a sun keyboard here somwewhere |
| 00:47.21 | treke|laptop | now sun sells pc style kerboards |
| 00:47.34 | George`Steaming | I'M STEAMING MAD!!! |
| 00:47.50 | chouimat | ~lart George`Steaming |
| 00:47.54 | hobbs | treke|laptop: but do they have a "Stop" button? :) |
| 00:48.06 | treke|laptop | hobbs: yes :) |
| 00:48.15 | treke|laptop | along with a copy and paste button |
| 00:48.24 | hobbs | oh well okay. :) |
| 00:48.44 | George`Steaming | I HATE YOU ALL! OPENFIRMWARE IS NOT A BIOS! |
| 00:48.54 | ljp | cmos |
| 00:49.02 | hobbs | way to go. |
| 00:49.07 | hobbs | with the shutting up. |
| 00:49.08 | krezel | George`Steaming: why are you so steaming? |
| 00:49.14 | krezel | Whats the big deal anyways? |
| 00:49.27 | ljp | George-: you were more fun when you were irc'ing at school |
| 00:49.32 | treke|laptop | yeah |
| 00:49.41 | ljp | :) |
| 00:50.14 | George`Steaming | ljp: DIE!!!! |
| 00:50.26 | krezel | whats the big deal with OpenBios that gets him so mad? |
| 00:50.30 | ljp | I will, just like all living things |
| 00:50.49 | kergoth | krezel: george's goal in life is annoyance |
| 00:50.57 | kergoth | krezel: i do believe he's succeeding admirably :) |
| 00:51.36 | George`Steaming | kergoth: SHUTUP!!!! |
| 00:51.46 | krezel | Ah... Its just a BIOS we're talking about here, I dont know why hes so mad.... |
| 00:52.30 | George`Steaming | krezel: IT'S NOT A BIOS!!!!! |
| 00:52.33 | chouimat | George-: fuck I forgot the garbbage |
| 00:52.42 | krezel | Then why do they call it OpenBios? |
| 00:52.48 | chouimat | George-: go back to school |
| 00:53.04 | George`Steaming | krezel: IT'S NOT CALLED OPENBIOS |
| 00:53.07 | chouimat | openfirmware is conceptually similar to a bios |
| 00:53.07 | George`Steaming | .......... |
| 00:53.19 | kergoth | lol |
| 00:53.28 | chouimat | so it's logical to say it's a bios :) |
| 00:53.41 | George`Steaming | chouimat: BASTARD! I SWEAR I'M GOING TO KILL YOU |
| 00:53.52 | krezel | haha |
| 00:54.05 | chouimat | George`Steaming: the bios is the firmware of the PC .... |
| 00:54.06 | krezel | George has anger issues |
| 00:54.21 | chouimat | krezel: yup |
| 00:54.22 | ljp | he hasnt been taking his Ritalin |
| 00:54.25 | George`Steaming | chouimat: AND A MAC IS NOT A PC |
| 00:54.40 | ljp | pc == Personal Computer |
| 00:54.44 | *** kick/#zaurus [George`Steaming!~kergoth@dsl081-228-056.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net] by kergoth (i'm bored) |
| 00:54.45 | ulyx | kergoth: I hate you :( |
| 00:54.53 | krezel | aw he was fun |
| 00:54.53 | ljp | haha |
| 00:55.05 | *** join/#zaurus George`Steaming (~Test@m79-mp1.cvx1-a.man.dial.ntli.net) |
| 00:55.07 | chouimat | kergoth: you piss ulyx :) |
| 00:55.09 | kergoth | hehe |
| 00:55.24 | George`Steaming | kergoth: SOD OFF |
| 00:55.37 | krezel | Damn he is English... |
| 00:55.48 | chouimat | George`Steaming: when is the last time you got laid? |
| 00:55.52 | treke|laptop | why cant he be french and surrender |
| 00:55.54 | George`Steaming | chouimat: I'M A MINOR |
| 00:56.01 | krezel | So? Minors can get laid |
| 00:56.12 | treke|laptop | coal or iron? |
| 00:56.14 | ljp | coal? |
| 00:56.16 | ljp | hehehe |
| 00:56.28 | ljp | pyrite |
| 00:56.38 | chouimat | krezel: that mean that he didn't have hair in the "chick lunch area" yet :) |
| 00:56.47 | kergoth | lol |
| 00:57.21 | krezel | Ah |
| 00:57.33 | krezel | Its ok George, one day your special "changes" will come |
| 00:57.34 | chouimat | I said nothing :) |
| 00:58.23 | hobbs | Which reminds me -- worst thing ever is for an 8th grade class to read "The Giver" |
| 00:58.49 | George`Steaming | I HATE YOU ALL!!! |
| 00:58.51 | chouimat | George`Steaming: still here? and btw openfirmware is a bios cause it does the same fucntion and some more :) |
| 00:58.55 | George`Steaming | OPENFIRMWARE IS NOT A BIOS |
| 00:59.28 | George`Steaming | chouimat: I'M GONNA TRAIN YOUR CAT TO SHIT ALL OVER YOUR FACE EVERY MORNING |
| 00:59.40 | krezel | I dont have a cat |
| 00:59.46 | krezel | so I'm safe |
| 01:00.12 | chouimat | George`Steaming: good luck ... his coffee is bad ... |
| 01:00.16 | ljp | George`Steaming: caps lock |
| 01:01.21 | chouimat | ljp: he's using a mac and since the mac don't have a bios I'm sure there is no caps lock :) |
| 01:01.37 | ljp | and only one button mouse |
| 01:01.41 | chouimat | :) |
| 01:01.49 | George`Steaming | chouimat: I'M NOT USING A MAC |
| 01:02.09 | George`Steaming | ANYWAY |
| 01:02.11 | George`Steaming | I'M OFF TO BED |
| 01:02.16 | chouimat | George`Steaming: does your mac mouse look like a pill box? |
| 01:02.19 | krezel | Check for special hairs |
| 01:02.24 | chouimat | lol |
| 01:02.32 | George`Steaming | chouimat: I USE A LOGITECH 3 BUTTON USB MOUSE |
| 01:02.34 | George`Steaming | GOOD NIGHT. |
| 01:02.41 | ljp | hehehe |
| 01:02.41 | chouimat | YAY! |
| 01:02.54 | krezel | Now whats his issue? What is he, like 12? |
| 01:02.57 | treke|laptop | 14 |
| 01:03.00 | ljp | 14 |
| 01:03.02 | krezel | aw how cute |
| 01:03.11 | krezel | 14 and british, nice combo |
| 01:03.23 | hobbs | "Are you easily embarrassed?" |
| 01:03.39 | ljp | when he irc's from school, it's logs him off if it detects any bad words |
| 01:03.48 | krezel | haha |
| 01:03.49 | hobbs | "Don't feel bad, it's just part of growing up and being English." |
| 01:03.55 | chouimat | ljp: did you know that they want to rename San Fransisco to "New Sodom" |
| 01:04.11 | ljp | huh? |
| 01:04.12 | treke|laptop | "you mean it logs you off whenever I say FUCK?" |
| 01:04.23 | treke|laptop | "* Sign off George- |
| 01:04.26 | ljp | ya, when george is at school |
| 01:04.38 | chouimat | treke|laptop: yup, strap-on work too :) |
| 01:04.57 | krezel | strap-on is a swear word? |
| 01:05.07 | chouimat | krezel: :) |
| 01:05.40 | chouimat | krezel: no, but all sex related expression log him off |
| 01:05.59 | krezel | nice... |
| 01:06.42 | chouimat | krezel: we tried some words but we don't have an exhaustive list yet |
| 01:06.59 | treke|laptop | hopefully he goes back to school soon |
| 01:07.21 | chouimat | treke|laptop: I think they removed his access to irc :) |
| 01:07.29 | treke|laptop | chouimat: hehehe cool |
| 01:07.46 | chouimat | too much swear in some channel :) |
| 01:09.54 | krezel | Does he have a Z? or does he just come here for the abuse? |
| 01:10.54 | ljp | ya he has one |
| 01:24.31 | chouimat | ljp: two actualy |
| 01:37.21 | Altered | what does he do with 2? |
| 01:38.24 | oGMo | beowulf... 2-way comm... doom deathmatch... |
| 01:39.36 | Altered | how do you get two 802.11b devices to talk to each other in ad hoc mode? |
| 01:42.40 | oGMo | dunno, never used them, but i know you can |
| 01:42.55 | Altered | ah... nevermind... you have to set up static IPs... |
| 01:43.16 | Altered | not very useful if you want a real ad hoc network with node discoverty... |
| 01:43.35 | oGMo | Altered: it's linux, i doubt that's _necessary_ ;) |
| 01:43.53 | oGMo | you might have to script stuff yourself, but |
| 01:44.09 | kergoth`bbl | ther/win 13 |
| 01:44.10 | kergoth`bbl | er |
| 01:44.11 | Altered | yes, good point... no need to use TCP/IP either... |
| 01:44.14 | kergoth`bbl | fuck typing |
| 01:44.20 | kergoth | wc/ 17 |
| 01:44.23 | kergoth | see? |
| 01:44.30 | kergoth | i ca |
| 01:44.31 | kergoth | oi |
| 01:45.01 | oGMo | Altered: dunno if you're being facetious but ... you'd want to stick to tcp/ip ;) |
| 01:45.18 | oGMo | modifying a few scripts is easy though |
| 01:45.54 | Altered | yes, but unless everyone was running the same self-organizing network scripts, it doesn't seem very useful.. |
| 01:46.08 | oGMo | Altered, so make an ipk ;) |
| 01:46.54 | kergoth | Altered: there exist tools for this |
| 01:46.58 | kergoth | adhoc routing tools and the like |
| 01:47.16 | Altered | yep... I guess I'll just go the bluetooth route.. |
| 01:47.28 | kergoth | google is your friend. |
| 01:47.56 | kergoth | I want a personal area network damnit :) |
| 02:02.35 | *** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-435182be.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 02:10.07 | effy-kun | according to some, Google is nobody's friend |
| 02:10.14 | effy-kun | except Big Brother's ;) |
| 02:10.17 | oGMo | bah |
| 02:10.30 | oGMo | someone else was just mentioning something about that... same BS article |
| 02:10.52 | kergoth | bah |
| 02:10.54 | oGMo | another whiner wants google to rank them higher, so they write paranoid crap |
| 02:10.55 | effy-kun | BS? |
| 02:10.59 | kergoth | bullshit |
| 02:11.06 | kergoth | google is my very good friend |
| 02:11.10 | oGMo | yeah |
| 02:11.12 | kergoth | remember life before google? |
| 02:11.18 | oGMo | i remember altavista |
| 02:11.18 | kergoth | sifting through countless pages of results |
| 02:11.19 | chouimat | effy-kun: eta for the docs? |
| 02:11.21 | kergoth | yeah |
| 02:11.22 | oGMo | yeah |
| 02:11.24 | kergoth | altavista.digital.com baby |
| 02:11.26 | effy-kun | kergoth: I may live in Japan, but that doesnt mean I dont understand the nuances of English ;) |
| 02:11.28 | kergoth | lol |
| 02:11.29 | oGMo | hehe yep |
| 02:11.40 | oGMo | although i liked their complex search grammar |
| 02:11.43 | effy-kun | chouimat: it looks like Saturday my time, perhaps late Friday your time |
| 02:11.47 | kergoth | oGMo: yeah, so did i |
| 02:11.58 | kergoth | oGMo: a expert searcher _could_ find what they want within 2 pages of results |
| 02:12.03 | oGMo | still didn't do anything for the countless pages of the same thing |
| 02:12.04 | kergoth | oGMo: with carefully crafted search queries |
| 02:12.09 | kergoth | yeah |
| 02:12.09 | effy-kun | sorry, I got this sudden urge to go drinking with my roommate last night so I didnt get much done ;) |
| 02:12.11 | oGMo | kergoth: yeah but it took work ;) |
| 02:12.15 | kergoth | yup |
| 02:12.20 | kergoth | it was a skill |
| 02:12.23 | kergoth | people used to ask me to find shit for them |
| 02:12.25 | kergoth | remember that? |
| 02:12.29 | kergoth | "help, i ened to find this!" |
| 02:12.35 | oGMo | google, i just type in a few different words and if i don't come up with soemthing, it's probably not out there |
| 02:12.41 | oGMo | kergoth: yes :) |
| 02:12.56 | kergoth | it was like.. a class thing |
| 02:13.15 | kergoth | nobles could search |
| 02:13.19 | oGMo | haha |
| 02:13.21 | kergoth | peasants floundered |
| 02:13.21 | kergoth | hehe |
| 02:13.37 | oGMo | i remember when google was a lot smaller and no one heard of it either |
| 02:13.54 | kergoth | yea.. finding out about google was like.. a godsend |
| 02:14.02 | kergoth | just amazing |
| 02:14.17 | oGMo | it's weird now because you hear google on TV and read it in books |
| 02:14.27 | oGMo | (like gibson's latest) |
| 02:14.58 | hobbs | I rather liked doing boolean searches myself. |
| 02:15.12 | hobbs | oh and there was ADJ (or NEAR) too, wasn't there? :) |
| 02:15.29 | kergoth | i havent read much gibson beyond neuromancer |
| 02:19.47 | treke|ho2e | gibson? |
| 02:20.02 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: author |
| 02:20.07 | treke|ho2e | ah |
| 02:25.34 | hobbs | I want a dockbar that doesn't block _everything_ to the left/right of it (when horizontal) or to above/below it (when vertical) |
| 02:25.49 | hobbs | if I could have that, I would start using my favorite dock apps again. I miss wmbubble. :) |
| 02:26.25 | hobbs | whoops, wrong channel. |
| 02:26.36 | hobbs | That made sense in the discussion I was having elsewhere. :) |
| 02:26.50 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: not a fan of the window tabs eh? :) |
| 02:26.54 | treke|ho2e | kergoth: nope |
| 02:26.58 | kergoth | hobbs: this is #zaurus, who needs to be on topic anyway? |
| 02:26.59 | treke|ho2e | not in this form |
| 02:27.02 | treke|ho2e | I like ion tabs |
| 02:27.09 | hobbs | kergoth: haha. not hobbs! |
| 02:27.14 | kergoth | hobbs: damn right |
| 02:28.15 | treke|ho2e | frankly if there were 1) a decent mp3 player and 2) a decent web browser and 3) decent games for console mode, I'd have little need for X |
| 02:28.16 | kergoth | hobbs: test passed? |
| 02:28.22 | hobbs | kergoth: success! |
| 02:28.25 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: there is 1) and 2) |
| 02:28.31 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: w3m-img for 2 |
| 02:28.37 | kergoth | the first.. fuck.. what was the name of it again.. |
| 02:28.41 | hobbs | imp3sh ? |
| 02:28.42 | treke|ho2e | kergoth: I need crap with javascript and that dhtml shit |
| 02:29.12 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: ah, you need a gecko browser that can output to framebuffer |
| 02:29.15 | kergoth | :) |
| 02:29.19 | treke|ho2e | that would work |
| 02:29.32 | treke|ho2e | one of my coworkeds is big on the whole dynamic page stuff :) |
| 02:29.34 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: try out mp3blaster |
| 02:29.46 | treke|ho2e | I actually use mp3blaster sometimes. good app |
| 02:29.49 | kergoth | :) |
| 02:29.55 | treke|ho2e | forgot about it |
| 02:30.00 | treke|ho2e | maybe I can go back to ion now |
| 02:30.05 | kergoth | hehe |
| 02:30.12 | treke|ho2e | xmms was one of the main reasons I switched |
| 02:30.32 | kergoth | I should fuck around with ion |
| 02:30.34 | kergoth | never tried it |
| 02:30.35 | *** join/#zaurus sjborch (~knoppix@adsl-63-206-234-225.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 02:30.50 | treke|ho2e | kergoth: really nice. I like the non-overlappting windows |
| 02:31.03 | kergoth | centericq for aim/icq/yahoo/msn, mp3blaster for audio.. irssi/bitchx, screen.. |
| 02:31.04 | kergoth | and life is good |
| 02:31.06 | kergoth | heheh |
| 02:31.10 | treke|ho2e | centericq is great |
| 02:31.20 | kergoth | i should add it to buildroot |
| 02:31.21 | kergoth | hehe |
| 02:31.36 | treke|ho2e | irssi takes everything that rocks about bitchx, removes the stuff that sucks, and adds more stuff that rocks |
| 02:31.51 | kergoth | i _love_ seperate windows for channels/messages |
| 02:31.57 | treke|ho2e | yup |
| 02:32.11 | kergoth | makes being in more than one channel without going berserk possible |
| 02:32.26 | treke|ho2e | you can do seperate windows in bitchx... |
| 02:32.42 | treke|ho2e | I could never get it to work with messages though |
| 02:32.50 | kergoth | yea |
| 02:32.50 | treke|ho2e | the multiple servers is nice |
| 02:33.03 | kergoth | could do multiple servers in bitchx w/ windows |
| 02:33.06 | kergoth | but it was a pain in the ass |
| 02:33.06 | treke|ho2e | the nice thing about irssi is it creates and removes windows automatically |
| 02:33.09 | kergoth | yea |
| 02:33.27 | kergoth | hm, debian unstable mp3blaster's depends are b0rked |
| 02:33.54 | *** join/#zaurus nerdboy (~sarnold@arnolds.dhs.org) |
| 02:34.12 | nerdboy | hey all |
| 02:34.15 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: raster was asking earlier if the oz h36xx support includes support for the cf sleeve, it works fine right? |
| 02:36.06 | raster | treke|ho2e: yo! :) |
| 02:36.12 | raster | hehe |
| 02:36.15 | raster | (back from lunch) |
| 02:36.19 | kergoth | :) |
| 02:36.20 | kergoth | good food? |
| 02:36.27 | raster | yeah the oz page doesn tlist ipaq images to dl. |
| 02:36.30 | kergoth | hm, food. i should find something for dinner |
| 02:36.35 | raster | so ididnt know it had ipaq suport till an hour or so ago |
| 02:36.36 | raster | :) |
| 02:36.40 | raster | yeah |
| 02:36.46 | raster | schnitzel & salad |
| 02:36.46 | raster | :) |
| 02:38.40 | treke|ho2e | raster: I've tested the Dual CF sleeve and the PCMCIA sleeve. both work |
| 02:39.19 | treke|ho2e | oz is actually a good excuse for me to buy more hardware to play with :) |
| 02:39.28 | hobbs | debian unstable is b0rked. :) |
| 02:39.40 | hobbs | I've got it working right now, I don't plan on upgrading for a few weeks. :) |
| 02:41.25 | raster | treke|ho2e: aaah cool. i have a single cf sleeve + nbattery that i like (and the dual pcmcia one too) |
| 02:41.34 | raster | treke|ho2e: where are the images? |
| 02:42.47 | treke|ho2e | the kernel gets built off the same patches familiar uses, so nothing should be unsupported |
| 02:43.08 | treke|ho2e | raster: I havent released any yet. I've been waiting till I test a bit more |
| 02:43.35 | treke|ho2e | Theres a handful of things I want to get done before I tell kergoth its safe to release |
| 02:43.39 | raster | treke|ho2e: aaaah. ok. that new eh? |
| 02:43.46 | raster | ok ok. |
| 02:43.54 | raster | i'll keep posted then and see what apears |
| 02:43.59 | treke|ho2e | yeah. |
| 02:44.03 | raster | i just didnt know there was ipaq support coming at all |
| 02:44.03 | raster | :) |
| 02:44.15 | raster | i'd like to track just 1 dist personally |
| 02:44.16 | raster | :) |
| 02:44.27 | treke|ho2e | on the bright side it has been a lot more stable than I familiar. I've been running it for about 2 weeks without problems. |
| 02:47.13 | raster | really? |
| 02:47.21 | raster | hows things addressing power usage |
| 02:47.26 | raster | and cpu clock stepping? |
| 02:47.43 | treke|ho2e | Power usage hasnt changed much lately. |
| 02:48.02 | treke|ho2e | I think that last significant change was back with 2.4.16 |
| 02:48.35 | raster | ok |
| 02:48.44 | raster | last i checked linux eats power compared to wince |
| 02:49.03 | treke|ho2e | raster: when did you last try it? |
| 02:49.11 | *** join/#zaurus hobbified (~andrew@port-96-68-tnt01.avoca.nni.com) |
| 02:49.14 | raster | 2.4.7 :) |
| 02:49.21 | raster | i have 2.4.16 runing on my ipaq |
| 02:49.22 | treke|ho2e | Back around 2.4.6 it was really really really bad |
| 02:49.31 | raster | but i havent checked power consumption at all |
| 02:49.45 | treke|ho2e | now you can actually do things like go a day without having to plug it in |
| 02:50.26 | raster | hehehe |
| 02:50.40 | raster | just checking :) |
| 02:50.47 | raster | ok |
| 02:50.58 | treke|ho2e | a linux based ipaq can actually be useful these days :) |
| 02:51.02 | raster | cause i want to get evas, ecore etc in the oz feeds at some point |
| 02:51.18 | raster | as i know have evas fulyl ported ot the ipaq with ecore_evas input driver/tty wrapper |
| 02:51.24 | raster | so touchscree works |
| 02:51.33 | raster | cot a touchscreen calibration program/demo program going |
| 02:51.54 | raster | all part of my secret plan to take over the world... err..linxu pda space :) |
| 03:00.02 | ljp | you have to compete with IBM |
| 03:00.17 | raster | i do? |
| 03:00.21 | ljp | sure |
| 03:00.26 | ljp | why not |
| 03:00.27 | raster | when did ib start making ui systems? |
| 03:00.30 | raster | err |
| 03:00.31 | raster | gui |
| 03:00.32 | raster | ? |
| 03:00.32 | raster | :) |
| 03:01.19 | ljp | evas isn't gui? |
| 03:01.27 | treke|ho2e | raster: last week |
| 03:01.34 | treke|ho2e | raster: didnt you here? |
| 03:01.36 | raster | ljp: its a canavs library |
| 03:01.47 | raster | that also can be used to build widget sets, guis |
| 03:01.53 | raster | and can even drive dislpay ahdrware directly |
| 03:01.57 | raster | think of it as being like sdl |
| 03:02.00 | treke|ho2e | raster: well one could say you started making ui systems when you wrote enlightenment :) |
| 03:02.01 | raster | but with a state engine |
| 03:02.02 | raster | :) |
| 03:02.18 | raster | treke|ho2e: slight diff. e is a wm. tis just a program :) |
| 03:02.28 | treke|ho2e | raster: herasy! |
| 03:02.32 | kergoth | hehe |
| 03:02.34 | kergoth | e was amazing |
| 03:02.35 | raster | i know ibm announed to have qtopia as a ref platform |
| 03:02.40 | raster | but thats not ibm's product |
| 03:02.50 | raster | they just agreed to have it as a refernce gui |
| 03:03.05 | raster | e broke a lot of the "rules" i guess |
| 03:03.11 | raster | thats its main thing |
| 03:03.21 | raster | i just said "fuck it" to conventions and rules |
| 03:03.26 | raster | and decided to go out ona limb |
| 03:03.37 | raster | thinkign there were other peole like me who didnt get that excited over grey bevels |
| 03:03.45 | hobbs | heh. |
| 03:03.49 | treke|ho2e | hehe |
| 03:03.52 | kergoth | yeah, exactly.. i remember drooling over it going wait.. you can do that? |
| 03:03.52 | kergoth | heh |
| 03:03.59 | raster | hehe |
| 03:04.02 | raster | i knew you could |
| 03:04.07 | raster | just no one actually went and di it |
| 03:04.17 | raster | proof is in the pudding.. err code... er prototype |
| 03:04.18 | hobbs | I'm one of those weirdos who's never used E. I'm a big wmaker fan though, although recently I've been using kwin (along with the rest of kde) |
| 03:04.19 | raster | :) |
| 03:04.54 | raster | i'ma basically hoping to cause a mini-revolution in pda gui's with evas |
| 03:05.09 | raster | caus ebasically it makes doing "Sexy" gfx stuff childs play |
| 03:05.16 | raster | and goes ahead and optimises it for the programmer too |
| 03:05.19 | raster | saving a LOt of work |
| 03:05.20 | ljp | last time I tried enlightenment was when it was gnome :D |
| 03:05.27 | hobbs | haha. I'm glad that writing tipped me in that those were "Desktop Icons" |
| 03:20.18 | hobbs | o/` so don't ask me no questions, and I won't tell you no lies o/` |
| 03:20.18 | hobbs | --winner of the Grammar Award. |
| 03:27.21 | *** join/#zaurus pmax (firewall@HSE-Kitchener-ppp321701.sympatico.ca) |
| 03:28.52 | pmax | what's the current known status of the 5600? |
| 03:32.42 | *** join/#zaurus Zarchon (~chatzilla@gphys8.physics.harvard.edu) |
| 03:32.51 | Zarchon | Hey, anyone awake? |
| 03:32.58 | kergoth | no |
| 03:33.03 | Zarchon | sounds promising. |
| 03:33.37 | Zarchon | I'm wondering something about using adapters on compactflash ports. |
| 03:34.45 | Zarchon | I want to talk to a USB port at the far end of a CF->PC Card adapter with a USB card plugged in. I realize this is the second time some of you have seen this (if you're on #handhelds.org), but for those who haven't.... |
| 03:36.17 | *** join/#zaurus sig (~sig@h-66-167-136-188.STTNWAHO.covad.net) |
| 03:36.45 | *** join/#zaurus warmi (~warmi@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 03:39.30 | Zarchon | Is Mr. Kasok presently on the channel? |
| 03:39.44 | *** join/#zaurus MEGA|Home (~megastep@home.megastep.org) |
| 03:40.18 | Zarchon | upon further thought, probably not. |
| 03:43.16 | _Psycho | hey someone here ordered a C700 for conics ? |
| 03:43.38 | kergoth | for conics? |
| 03:43.51 | _Psycho | from =p |
| 03:43.53 | _Psycho | my bad |
| 03:43.56 | kergoth | conics? |
| 03:43.58 | kergoth | :) |
| 03:44.00 | _Psycho | conics.net |
| 03:44.05 | _Psycho | shop.conics.net even |
| 03:44.09 | warmi | Japanese model ? |
| 03:44.11 | _Psycho | they sell it for 569$ |
| 03:44.13 | _Psycho | yeah |
| 03:44.20 | _Psycho | im about to buy one |
| 03:44.24 | _Psycho | wanted feedback |
| 03:44.31 | _Psycho | its the cheaper price i have found |
| 03:44.47 | _Psycho | dyna is like 700$ and japan-direct.com a bit lower |
| 03:45.14 | warmi | yeah, 569 seems like a decent price |
| 03:45.18 | _Psycho | there was another one at the same price than conics.net too befolis or something but anyway |
| 03:45.20 | kergoth | hell of a deal |
| 03:45.30 | kergoth | course thats not converted to english, but doing so is fairly easy |
| 03:45.37 | kergoth | and I'll have an OZ rom for c700 within a week |
| 03:45.41 | _Psycho | hell, probably not, they sell for like 500$ in japan from what i saw |
| 03:45.43 | kergoth | well i already have one, but without opie |
| 03:46.06 | _Psycho | yeah i know wthat, 2 week to order ahyway + at least 1 week of shipping from japan to canada |
| 03:46.26 | kergoth | thats a hell of a deal |
| 03:46.29 | kergoth | I'd jump on that |
| 03:46.33 | warmi | kergoth: just lack of time or are there any issues trying to compile opie for OZ on C700 ? |
| 03:46.35 | _Psycho | I just wanted to know if someone had some good feedback from there =p |
| 03:46.44 | mspencer | does he take credit cards for that size purchase yet? |
| 03:46.46 | kergoth | warmi: sharp didnt release the qt/e alterations |
| 03:46.53 | mspencer | I really worry about sending *anyone* a money order... |
| 03:47.02 | kergoth | warmi: so that includes the lcd zoom support to 320x240, keyboard mapping, and touchscreen |
| 03:47.06 | _Psycho | you can use credit card on paypal or payment something, else bank wire, i probably just use paypal |
| 03:47.25 | mspencer | I like chargeback rights ^__^ I don't think paypal gives you those, do they? |
| 03:47.30 | _Psycho | mspencer i dont worry that much |
| 03:47.45 | kergoth | warmi: ts was done easy enough, and zoom will be easy once i decide on a sane api.. keymapping could be a pain |
| 03:47.53 | warmi | oh , do you think they will release this stuf ? |
| 03:47.55 | _Psycho | i would even buy it directly from a someone in japan if i could, but not like i know anyone there |
| 03:48.06 | mspencer | It's a risk cost-benefit analysis...some people don't mind the risk, some are very conscious of it...we're probably both wrong or something :) |
| 03:48.07 | kergoth | warmi: would be nice, but i doubt it |
| 03:48.18 | kergoth | warmi: so I'm reinventing the wheel again.. but hey |
| 03:48.23 | kergoth | :) |
| 03:48.26 | _Psycho | someone in japan wanna go get me one ! :) |
| 03:48.41 | _Psycho | anwyay |
| 03:48.56 | warmi | well, I am perplexed why not .. this could only help their device , after all they are like Sun - making money on hardware and not software |
| 03:48.57 | _Psycho | i guess i just start coding for it when i order it =p |
| 03:48.58 | mspencer | Is there a java compiler for the Z? |
| 03:49.10 | kergoth | warmi: agreed |
| 03:49.16 | ljp | ever get the urge to bite the fingers off your cat? |
| 03:49.19 | warmi | mspencer: you mean like compiler to native code ? |
| 03:49.23 | warmi | or just javac ? |
| 03:49.26 | mspencer | no, like 'javac' |
| 03:49.31 | kergoth | warmi: but i doubt they will, regardless. I get the impression they have to jump thruogh a lot of red tape |
| 03:49.45 | warmi | kergoth: typical of a large corporation |
| 03:49.46 | mspencer | maybe even 'javadoc' or 'jdb' ^__^ |
| 03:50.08 | _Psycho | i got a failure notice subscribing to the opie mailing list, weird, OZ one worked right away |
| 03:50.10 | warmi | mspencer: I ... don't know - java compiler tends to use a lot of memory |
| 03:50.13 | mspencer | They have to make sure every step is the right step, so they take steps very slowly :) |
| 03:50.20 | mspencer | I've never heard of one either... |
| 03:50.26 | kergoth | warmi: indeed |
| 03:50.41 | _Psycho | haha wtf the computer i was entering the info just rebooted =p |
| 03:50.44 | ljp | boot! |
| 03:50.58 | _Psycho | its a sign of god ! he dont want me to order it =p |
| 03:51.17 | kergoth | screw god, buy it anyway |
| 03:51.18 | kergoth | :D |
| 03:51.23 | _Psycho | haha i know |
| 03:51.31 | mspencer | My math class is getting pretty scary. I now know a "shortcut" method for computing a large power of a number, modulo some other number. |
| 03:51.41 | _Psycho | its jsut expensive and the samsung nexio is coming out soon |
| 03:51.46 | kergoth | GRRR |
| 03:51.48 | mspencer | So I could in theory do 18^3822 mod 86 or something :) |
| 03:51.48 | kergoth | fucking OZ |
| 03:51.49 | kergoth | BOOT |
| 03:51.50 | kergoth | !@#%^@^! |
| 03:51.56 | kergoth | i dont get it |
| 03:52.12 | ljp | hmm new kernel? |
| 03:52.15 | _Psycho | and i would be a bit pissed if sharp would release a C700 in US, english with better batteries and 32 more rams of memory |
| 03:52.16 | kergoth | nope, same |
| 03:52.20 | kergoth | just changing startup scripts around |
| 03:52.38 | hobbs | mspencer: well that's cool. :) |
| 03:52.38 | kergoth | _Psycho: hehe, thatd rock if they did tho |
| 03:52.51 | _Psycho | not for me ! i would had to ebay mine or something |
| 03:52.51 | hobbs | mspencer: I read that once, but I don't recall it. Is it enough to put into one line in IRC? |
| 03:52.59 | warmi | mspencer: math can only get more scary with time .. my own experience and the others confirms that to be an absolute axiom - it never gets easier .. |
| 03:53.00 | warmi | :-) |
| 03:53.32 | mspencer | kinda...it uses the idea that if a is congruent to b mod m and c is congruent to d mod m, then ac is congruent to bd mod m. |
| 03:53.48 | _Psycho | kergoth you coding your stuff under linux then gcc cross compile for the Z ? |
| 03:53.51 | _Psycho | im curious |
| 03:53.58 | _Psycho | i didnt checked the developement part yet |
| 03:54.06 | mspencer | So you make a table of powers. In this case I'm doing powers of 18, so I find 18 ^ 1 mod 86...then 18 ^ 2 mod 86...then 18^4 mod 86... |
| 03:54.15 | kergoth | _Psycho: yep |
| 03:54.16 | kergoth | woot |
| 03:54.17 | kergoth | found the bug |
| 03:54.19 | hobbs | mspencer: alright. |
| 03:54.24 | kergoth | OZ will be happy again |
| 03:54.24 | _Psycho | ok cool |
| 03:54.30 | hobbs | mspencer: I've got a friend who's taking a Number Theory course at the local uni. |
| 03:54.32 | mspencer | and I keep doing powers of two. To go from one power to the next, I just square the 'mod' answer I found, and then crop it down to modulo 86. |
| 03:54.34 | kergoth | rc3 is coming along nicely |
| 03:54.39 | mspencer | hobbs: now you have two ^__^ |
| 03:54.44 | hobbs | mspencer: aah yes, I recall that. :) |
| 03:54.49 | _Psycho | but my linux box screen is down ! i guess i have to check about installing a linux on my other pc soon |
| 03:54.49 | hobbs | mspencer: but he's an HS Junior. :) |
| 03:55.00 | _Psycho | kergoth you have a cvs for that ? |
| 03:55.10 | _Psycho | on sourceforge ? |
| 03:55.11 | kergoth | _Psycho: cvs for what? OZ? |
| 03:55.11 | mspencer | Duuude...my number theory class has a dual course number, 4xxx/8xxx...there are grad students in it... |
| 03:55.15 | _Psycho | yeah OZ |
| 03:55.18 | _Psycho | rc3 |
| 03:55.21 | kergoth | oz uses a bitkeeper repository rather than cvs |
| 03:55.32 | kergoth | but yes, its buildsystem will build all of OZ from source with a few make commands |
| 03:55.33 | _Psycho | dont know what it is |
| 03:55.37 | mspencer | to do that as a junior in high school takes talent. :) |
| 03:55.38 | kergoth | youc ould build yourself an image if you like |
| 03:55.45 | hobbs | mspencer: oh believe me, this is a crazy class. He took multivariate calc in the fall. |
| 03:55.51 | _Psycho | well i know what it is, but never saw one ;) (whatever) |
| 03:56.08 | mspencer | whoa, waitaminute, jumping from multivariate to number theory is skipping a few important things... |
| 03:56.08 | kergoth | ibot: bitkeeper |
| 03:56.10 | | it has been said that bitkeeper is at http://www.bitkeeper.com/ or at http://www.bitmover.com/ or hosted trees at http://www.bkbits.net/ or like cvs and subversion, but its non-opensource.. but its really good, even linus uses it to develop the kernel! |
| 03:56.19 | kergoth | _Psycho: ^^ |
| 03:56.20 | _Psycho | kergoth and 'everyone' can send patch for it ? |
| 03:56.21 | ljp | ibot: botkeeper |
| 03:56.22 | | no idea, ljp |
| 03:56.24 | kergoth | _Psycho: yes |
| 03:56.31 | hobbs | mspencer: well apparently this course is only available every few years, so he hopped on. |
| 03:56.33 | _Psycho | checking on my otehr pc |
| 03:56.35 | kergoth | _Psycho: there are multiple people working on OZ.. i dont maintain all the packages anymore :) |
| 03:56.40 | hobbs | mspencer: and he gets it -- and the book is good (and hilarious) |
| 03:56.42 | Zarchon | ahh, number theory doesn't require any calculus |
| 03:56.43 | ljp | ibot: botkeeper is Tim Riker |
| 03:56.44 | | ljp: okay |
| 03:56.47 | Zarchon | you can start it anytime you like |
| 03:56.54 | _Psycho | figured that |
| 03:56.58 | hobbs | mspencer: it's like "A Friendly Introduction to Number Theory" |
| 03:57.03 | mspencer | you need discrete math to understand some of the set theory stuff, and linear algebra helps...I haven't heard if combinatorics is going to be used yet, because we haven't used any of what I learned yet, but that was in the requirements... |
| 03:57.05 | mspencer | ah, gotcha :) |
| 03:57.11 | mspencer | My class is "Number Theory and Cryptography" |
| 03:57.15 | hobbs | mspencer: haha! |
| 03:57.37 | hobbs | mspencer: discrete he gets. Linear Alg is what (else) he's taking now I think. |
| 03:57.39 | mspencer | then again, it's not that hard to look it up when the instructor says 'pigeonhole principle" or something... |
| 03:57.46 | Zarchon | most "discrete math" courses are just overviews of other courses. you can start from set theory and derive everything. |
| 03:57.48 | _Psycho | interesting |
| 03:58.01 | _Psycho | bacot my C700 order |
| 03:58.01 | Zarchon | although that'd be a bit heavy on the abs. algebra side of things |
| 03:58.04 | _Psycho | back to |
| 03:58.25 | mspencer | yeah, back to something on-topic. math isn't really. (although a good symbolic math package would be good...) |
| 03:58.31 | hobbs | mspencer: in any case, it's cool stuff, and I get to look at his stuff and watch him try to figure out proofs on occasion. :) |
| 03:58.55 | hobbs | mspencer: "This is #zaurus. Who needs to be on topic?" --kergoth |
| 04:00.13 | mspencer | proofs like: "Suppose a^k is congruent to b^k mod m, and a^(k+1) is congruent to b^(k+1) mod m. If a and m are relatively prime, is it always true that a and b are congruent mod m? If you remove the constraint that a and m are relatively prime, are a and b still congruent?" |
| 04:01.01 | *** join/#zaurus sig (~sig@h-66-167-136-188.STTNWAHO.covad.net) |
| 04:01.02 | mspencer | if you remove the constraint then it's false: 2^k is congruent to 4^k mod 4 for k=2 and k=3 but not k=1. |
| 04:01.23 | mspencer | anyway, yeah, back to your C700 order ^__^ |
| 04:01.39 | _Psycho | hehe |
| 04:01.46 | _Psycho | finished to fill out the case |
| 04:01.59 | mspencer | (I have a quick Java program to write tonight -- a simple mail client. Log into SMTP server, interact with the console, interact with the server, send mail.) |
| 04:02.14 | mspencer | (any time left over tonight after that java program...I will use to build my battery pack. :) ) |
| 04:02.23 | _Psycho | the only thing that bug me ordering my C700 is that my current contract finish by april hehe |
| 04:02.48 | _Psycho | mspencer i saw you added a pictures ;) |
| 04:03.01 | mspencer | not too many. I haven't even started yet. :) |
| 04:03.08 | _Psycho | well free hassle, i readed a tons on the translation, look very easy |
| 04:03.10 | mspencer | (he's talking about: http://mspencer.net/battery ) |
| 04:03.44 | mspencer | I'm not buying it for the translation -- I asked them to leave off the translation stuff because I study Japanese and need it ^__^ |
| 04:04.47 | _Psycho | paypal sux0r, bah i put notes in additional notes (optional) then he doesnt want to take when i wrote hehe most be some accent or something |
| 04:04.59 | _Psycho | i should start studying japanese, a third language always handy |
| 04:05.27 | mspencer | They're a very interesting culture. Definitely a fun language to study, if you don't mind some memorization. :) |
| 04:05.40 | mspencer | Definitely definitely take a class though. It's very difficult to self-teach something like that. |
| 04:06.09 | mspencer | OK, I'm going to go write that program...bbl... |
| 04:06.36 | _Psycho | GOOOOD there goes 912$ cdn |
| 04:06.44 | _Psycho | my heart is broke ! |
| 04:07.20 | kergoth | hehe |
| 04:07.25 | kergoth | the c700 is an amazing unit |
| 04:07.29 | kergoth | you'll love it |
| 04:07.49 | _Psycho | I know that part =p |
| 04:07.49 | _Psycho | haha |
| 04:08.00 | _Psycho | i saw somes peoples |
| 04:08.06 | _Psycho | having pixel getting stuck |
| 04:08.10 | _Psycho | i hope that doesnt happen |
| 04:08.34 | kergoth | fucking usb-storage just crashed my box |
| 04:08.35 | kergoth | i hate that |
| 04:09.56 | _Psycho | Second time my pc reboot tonight i was typing an email |
| 04:10.01 | _Psycho | so frigging weird |
| 04:10.12 | hobbs | kergoth: odd. |
| 04:10.20 | _Psycho | he like never did that in 8 months |
| 04:10.55 | _Psycho | btw kergoth you have like 3 weeks from now to release OZ for my c700 :p |
| 04:11.04 | kergoth | hehe |
| 04:11.14 | kergoth | 3.1 wont release without b500, a300, and c700 support |
| 04:11.29 | mspencer | btw, I've been carrying around two empty project enclosures. They're definitely not inconvenient for me to carry around in my backpack -- take about as much space as an extra book. ^__^ |
| 04:11.37 | mspencer | So the battery pack will work after-all ^__^ |
| 04:11.57 | _Psycho | I hope your battery pack work, i want to make one ;) |
| 04:12.14 | kergoth | night chouimat|Zzzzz |
| 04:12.16 | chouimat|Zzzzz | night |
| 04:12.25 | mspencer | I'll try to make my instructions as lego-project-like as possible. I've never soldered before ^__^ |
| 04:12.30 | _Psycho | i wanted to buy an extra battery pack with the charger but i think i will wait |
| 04:12.37 | _Psycho | will see how it goes |
| 04:13.08 | mspencer | This whole solution will run you about $150 if you go with the size and quantity of batteries I've got...but your ferrarri will go from a 3 gal gas tank to a 50 gal ^__^ |
| 04:13.20 | kergoth | _Psycho: dont buy an extra c700 battery |
| 04:13.29 | _Psycho | i have to start shopping SD card and MC card now |
| 04:13.29 | kergoth | _Psycho: you can modify a b500 1800maH battery to work in the c700 |
| 04:13.35 | _Psycho | yeah i saw that |
| 04:13.38 | kergoth | heh |
| 04:13.55 | _Psycho | i dont thik i didnt visited every forums and web page ;) |
| 04:14.24 | kergoth | heh |
| 04:14.30 | mspencer | "whaddya mean "impirt java.io.*;" has a syntax error?! * |
| 04:14.43 | _Psycho | Im french |
| 04:14.53 | _Psycho | everyone in my guild in Everquest make fun of me ;) |
| 04:15.12 | _Psycho | actually french canadian, but anyway |
| 04:15.13 | kergoth | hehe |
| 04:15.33 | ljp | ahh faux french! |
| 04:16.10 | _Psycho | ! |
| 04:16.17 | ljp | :D |
| 04:16.19 | _Psycho | well im english is not that bad, im just too lazy to type it good ! |
| 04:18.15 | warmi | hehe |
| 04:18.43 | kergoth | _Psycho: i live in US and i'm usually too lazy to type it good too :P |
| 04:18.47 | warmi | are French Canadians considered to be French by people in France ?? |
| 04:19.12 | kergoth | damnit damnit damnit |
| 04:19.14 | kergoth | damnit damnit |
| 04:19.16 | kergoth | damnit damnit damnit |
| 04:19.18 | ljp | if you even speak French, you are considered French in France |
| 04:19.34 | _Psycho | i guess /shrug never really bothered to ask :) |
| 04:19.38 | warmi | hehehe |
| 04:19.46 | ljp | Sugar: make kergoth a long island ice tae |
| 04:20.02 | ljp | Sugar: make kergoth a long island ice tea |
| 04:20.13 | kergoth | hrm |
| 04:20.14 | warmi | well , you know - if you look hard enough in places like Lousiana ..you will find some French American |
| 04:20.18 | kergoth | my OZ image still doenst boot |
| 04:20.20 | warmi | Americans even hehe |
| 04:20.22 | _Psycho | yeah i know :) |
| 04:20.23 | kergoth | reconfigures packages.. |
| 04:20.24 | kergoth | then b00m |
| 04:20.25 | kergoth | hang |
| 04:20.35 | ljp | too much sex! |
| 04:21.12 | kergoth | never enters runlevel 2.. |
| 04:21.13 | kergoth | hmm |
| 04:22.01 | ljp | check that one script |
| 04:23.56 | *** join/#zaurus numatrix|home (~jwiens@n128-227-48-115.xlate.ufl.edu) |
| 04:24.30 | warmi | kergoth: does C700 come with Opera ? |
| 04:24.43 | _Psycho | ok |
| 04:25.08 | ljp | no, it has netfront |
| 04:25.20 | hobbs | mspencer: you still around? |
| 04:26.06 | warmi | ljp: what is netfront ? |
| 04:26.13 | kergoth | warmi: nope, as ljp says its netfront |
| 04:27.23 | warmi | oh .. that thing (netfront) is available for PPC as well as Palm devices |
| 04:27.28 | warmi | I wonder why they skipped Opera |
| 04:27.39 | *** join/#zaurus wyvern (~supergibs@dcn243-123.dcn.davis.ca.us) |
| 04:28.16 | numatrix|home | I know; I was really looking forward to all the new features opera promised. I find it hard to believe netfront is as feature-filled. |
| 04:28.49 | hobbs | In spanish and french, double negatives are the _right_ way to speak. |
| 04:28.51 | warmi | well, perhaps opera doesn't support Japanese locale or something like that |
| 04:28.52 | _Psycho | now that i just spend 600$ US on taht thing, any recommandation on SD card, CF card (lan and wifi) ?? |
| 04:28.53 | mspencer | BufferedReader inFromServer = new BufferedReader(new InputStreamReader(clientSocket.getInputStream())); <-- it's lines like this that make me...well...really convinced that Java is different than C++ in some way. No idea which I like better, yet... |
| 04:28.58 | kergoth | netfront seems far superior to the opera we have |
| 04:29.02 | hobbs | They just keep on negating all the crap that's negative, till you can't negate no more. :) |
| 04:29.02 | kergoth | I dunno about future operas |
| 04:29.12 | warmi | hobbs: yeah ... it took me a while to get used to "single negative only' in english :-) |
| 04:29.30 | mspencer | Japanese is weird with the negatives... |
| 04:29.39 | hobbs | warmi: it makes sense to me, but I've been speaking english my whole life. :) |
| 04:29.57 | warmi | well, I guess .. now it also makes sense to me ;-) |
| 04:29.59 | mspencer | "That's painful!' "Itai desu." "That's not painful." "Itaku nai desu." |
| 04:30.10 | numatrix|home | kergoth: The 'new' features were the ones Jason and ben were talking about before; mainly flash. |
| 04:30.22 | hobbs | "I haven't seen nobody" works bettter in spanish than english. :) |
| 04:30.23 | kergoth | numatrix|home: ah, dunno if netfront has flash support, i'll check |
| 04:30.25 | treke|ho2e | what good would flash really do you? |
| 04:30.38 | warmi | but for a while I was speaking stuff like " I won't go nowhere " etc .. |
| 04:30.46 | treke|ho2e | flash stuff tends to be 1024x768 shit |
| 04:30.48 | mspencer | flash? I want flash on my C700. I need it, so I can show "Happy Tree Friends" to people :) |
| 04:30.49 | numatrix|home | treke|ho2e: Unfortunately, more and more sites use it even for stupid stuff like menus. |
| 04:30.52 | warmi | until I got use to proper English |
| 04:31.06 | kergoth | numatrix|home: i tend to ignore those sites ;) |
| 04:31.11 | hobbs | warmi: It's not really too hard to understand -- and there are plenty of miseducated native speakers who do the same thing. |
| 04:31.15 | warmi | hobbs: altought, these days tons of Americans use double negatives .. |
| 04:31.23 | warmi | yeah, precisely |
| 04:31.30 | treke|ho2e | I dont have either flash or java on my machine, can only think of one site I cant use |
| 04:31.40 | treke|ho2e | and that site only works with one specific vm :) |
| 04:31.41 | hobbs | warmi: I used to nitpick grammar, but on IRC there are so many people who don't speak english first, I just live with it. |
| 04:32.42 | warmi | hobbs: yeah, beside - even native spearks seem to think that it is somehow less "improper" to use broken English on irc - or generally on the net |
| 04:32.54 | treke|ho2e | I dunno. Most non english speakers I've spoken use better grammar than I do |
| 04:32.59 | hobbs | warmi: I don't -- I try to be as clear as possible. |
| 04:33.24 | hobbs | warmi: Well -- usually. I'll get conversational and start dropping the subjects of my verbs and punctuation and all that after a while. |
| 04:34.13 | warmi | you know what ... punctuation is actually very usefull :-) |
| 04:34.33 | hobbs | yes, it is, especially on IRC, where otherwise things can get very confusing. |
| 04:34.36 | ljp | so.are.spaces.sometimes. |
| 04:34.44 | warmi | as opposed to many other gramathical rules which seem to exist for no reason whatsover - this one helps a lot |
| 04:35.00 | warmi | ever tried reading a lot of text with punctuation removed ? |
| 04:35.12 | hobbs | warmi: yes. It's possible, but hard. :) |
| 04:35.24 | warmi | yeah |
| 04:35.32 | hobbs | that that is is that that is that that is not is that that is not that that is not is not that that is |
| 04:35.44 | hobbs | (the standard amusing punctuation-removed sentence) |
| 04:35.56 | warmi | hehe |
| 04:36.07 | hobbs | "That that is, is that that is. That that is not, is that that is not. That that is not, is not that that is." |
| 04:36.37 | ljp | I am against prepositions |
| 04:36.40 | warmi | well, even with punctuation that one is a bit too much for my non-native eyes :- |
| 04:37.03 | hobbs | warmi: It's either a profound truth or useless drivel. But you're right that it doesn't parse easily. |
| 04:37.27 | hobbs | warmi: it says that stuff that is, is. Stuff that isn't, isn't, and Stuff that isn't, isn't the stuff that is. :) |
| 04:39.42 | hobbs | not that that helps much either -- english (like most languages) has a hard time grouping things. |
| 04:39.46 | hobbs | It's easier verbally. |
| 04:40.17 | kergoth | ah ha! |
| 04:41.00 | warmi | yeah, I figured that one out - it was just damn hard - took a mental pause to digest this sentence |
| 04:41.04 | kergoth | the extraction routine isnt extracting the /dev contents for some reason |
| 04:41.53 | hobbs | kergoth: that could screw up a boot for sure. :) |
| 04:41.58 | warmi | hobbs , do you speak any other language , beside English ? |
| 04:42.23 | hobbs | warmi: Some spanish. |
| 04:42.55 | warmi | ok , do you agree that , for the most part, English grammar is relatively easy ? |
| 04:42.56 | kergoth | hobbs: yeah, having deviices helps |
| 04:43.19 | hobbs | Bastante bien pero no usa ella hace un año, más o menos. :) |
| 04:43.33 | warmi | spelling and pronounciation is not but the grammar is , as I said, relatively easy :-) |
| 04:43.36 | hobbs | warmi: I think so. It's fairly -- um -- lax. |
| 04:44.05 | *** join/#zaurus qutopia009 (~tri@128.238.79.94) |
| 04:44.20 | hobbs | warmi: Because it's all about position and helping words. There's very little information in conjugations and inflections. |
| 04:44.28 | warmi | the one thing that still drives me nuts is "the","a" - all this stuff :-) |
| 04:45.00 | warmi | seems easy on the surface but, since my language has nothing of the kind, sometimes I have a hard time to figure out when to use which |
| 04:45.15 | kergoth | the 'definitive' article? fun stuff eh |
| 04:45.24 | hobbs | oh? what do you speak first, warmi? |
| 04:45.41 | kergoth | NAND LOADER ... in NOR |
| 04:45.41 | kergoth | built on Oct 15 2002 at 19:18:18 |
| 04:45.42 | kergoth | func= 00000000 |
| 04:45.43 | kergoth | hm |
| 04:46.03 | *** join/#zaurus qutopia009 (~tri@128.238.79.94) |
| 04:46.40 | warmi | Polish |
| 04:46.49 | kergoth | ahahaha! |
| 04:46.51 | kergoth | i'm a moron! |
| 04:46.51 | warmi | which doesn't have a notion of "the","a" |
| 04:47.05 | mutexer | forget a semicolon? |
| 04:47.11 | warmi | if you one specify something you just use "this" or "that" or just simply nothing |
| 04:47.38 | warmi | mutexer: nah .. kergoth is beyong that point :-) |
| 04:47.44 | hobbs | warmi: aah. I have a friend who is from .pl |
| 04:47.55 | mutexer | well he said he was a moron :) |
| 04:48.12 | hobbs | warmi: It's not a language I know at all, though -- even when he spoke it, I could pick out almost nothing. |
| 04:48.12 | warmi | I also can understand Russian - use to be able to speak German and couple of other languages ... |
| 04:48.32 | kergoth | mutexer: stupid mistake.. not quite that simple, but stupid nonetheless :) |
| 04:48.40 | mutexer | :) |
| 04:48.42 | ljp | I speak cat |
| 04:48.59 | warmi | hobbs: it is quite similar to other European languages - they all borrow a lot from Latin - it is just pronouciation is so different , you won''t be able to pick up much |
| 04:49.28 | hobbs | warmi: aah. That could be it. |
| 04:49.35 | warmi | of course, for example English and German - both being germanic languages , are much closer than say Polish and English |
| 04:50.32 | treke|ho2e | yes. they both use vowels |
| 04:50.36 | warmi | btw .. as far as computer technology - they seem to be borowing English terms and simply changing them to match polish pronounciation |
| 04:50.42 | warmi | like computer = komputer etc .. |
| 04:50.54 | warmi | same for German |
| 04:50.56 | hobbs | warmi: the same thing happens in spanish, too. |
| 04:51.06 | treke|ho2e | computero |
| 04:51.12 | warmi | I guess only French are concerned enough to come up with their own terms for everything |
| 04:51.18 | warmi | :-) |
| 04:51.29 | gaurdian | anyone been able to use the jeode creator to install jeode on the Z, OZ rom ? |
| 04:51.29 | ljp | i'm the operator of my pocket calculator |
| 04:51.47 | gaurdian | useing the jeode creator ? |
| 04:51.52 | ljp | huh? whaa? zaurus? |
| 04:52.05 | kergoth | gaurdian: dood, what are you doing being on topic? |
| 04:52.07 | kergoth | :) |
| 04:52.14 | warmi | anyway , time for me |
| 04:52.17 | warmi | see you guys later |
| 04:52.23 | ljp | bye |
| 04:52.26 | gaurdian | well, ya know, little variety here and there kergoth :) |
| 04:52.34 | gaurdian | keep ya on ya toes |
| 04:52.36 | hobbs | hehe. :) |
| 04:52.54 | hobbs | I think I'll be going too, actually. |
| 04:54.47 | gaurdian | actually I got the jeode to install, its the java calculator rdcalc I cant get to install |
| 04:55.58 | kergoth | now that i think i have oz booting aagain i can do some real work |
| 05:05.33 | gaurdian | I guess extracting to a SD takes a while eh ? |
| 05:08.09 | *** join/#zaurus MEGA|Home (~megastep@home.megastep.org) |
| 05:08.47 | *** part/#zaurus qutopia009 (~tri@128.238.79.94) |
| 05:09.58 | *** join/#zaurus Nite_Hawk (~nh@msp-65-27-88-180.mn.rr.com) |
| 05:12.06 | gaurdian | kergoth , If I want to move /opt from /mnt/ram tpo /mnt/card, would you say its better to do that BEFORE I install any apps or does it make a difference ? |
| 05:14.41 | kergoth | gaurdian: wont matter mcuh |
| 05:14.42 | kergoth | much |
| 05:16.40 | gaurdian | now movint /opt just basically allows me more room to install things in "ram" correct, since the sym-link will put them on the SD card anyway, correct ? |
| 05:17.20 | kergoth | you can move them from flash to sd by uninstalling them and reinstalling them to sd as well |
| 05:17.40 | kergoth | symlinking /opt just lets you install to sd without quite so many symlinks |
| 05:18.02 | mspencer | what does the C700 have again? 32 MB flash, 64 MB ram? (I'm talking physical, irrespective of what happens when you turn the power on) |
| 05:18.11 | kergoth | but ipkg-link/aqpkg hides the linking anyway |
| 05:18.15 | gaurdian | ok, I am haveing some trouble installing rdcalc to SD, some reason it puts a icon there, but doesnt want to start |
| 05:18.16 | kergoth | i dont link /opt to sd myself |
| 05:18.24 | kergoth | mspencer: 64mb flash, 32mb ram |
| 05:18.30 | mspencer | ah, gotcha |
| 05:18.33 | kergoth | mspencer: adn the ram is ram after boot regardless, no ramdisk |
| 05:18.46 | kergoth | same basic specs as the b500/5600 |
| 05:18.51 | kergoth | just a different formfactor and LCD |
| 05:18.54 | mspencer | that's not bad. My Agenda has 16 MB RAM and 16 MB flash -- anything's an improvement :) |
| 05:18.55 | ljp | thats entirely too much flash space |
| 05:19.00 | kergoth | hehe |
| 05:19.00 | mspencer | Gotcha. ^__^ |
| 05:19.05 | kergoth | 64mb flash is insane |
| 05:19.10 | kergoth | i dunno what to do with that much space |
| 05:19.13 | kergoth | install _all_ of opie or something |
| 05:19.21 | ljp | tkc apps |
| 05:19.24 | kergoth | hehe |
| 05:19.46 | kergoth | start check battery ! |
| 05:19.59 | kergoth | nice to know the battery driver for the c700 is just as lame as the last one |
| 05:20.18 | kergoth | better replace that with ours when i get a chance |
| 05:20.52 | *** join/#zaurus vhalros (~vhalros@syr-24-59-96-194.twcny.rr.com) |
| 05:21.49 | gaurdian | haveing trouble with this java app, rdcalc installed fine on the sharp rom, I have jeode on the OZ, and the demo apps work fine, but this wont go on |
| 05:22.54 | kergoth | ~/coding/userspace/oz/buildroot$ cat ~/TODO|wc -l |
| 05:22.55 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:24.36 | kergoth | damnit, raster made me want a GUI init |
| 05:24.40 | kergoth | TODO is now 43 lines :) |
| 05:24.54 | treke|ho2e | gui init would be very nice |
| 05:24.57 | treke|ho2e | maybe picogui? |
| 05:25.02 | kergoth | picogui or evas |
| 05:25.11 | kergoth | either one are small and compact but fit the need well |
| 05:25.14 | treke|ho2e | qte would be to heavy :) |
| 05:25.23 | kergoth | yeah, by far |
| 05:25.44 | raster | kergoth: MUHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAAHHAH! |
| 05:25.54 | kergoth | raster: bastard :) |
| 05:26.23 | raster | i should add the ipc wrappers in ecore |
| 05:26.51 | raster | once thats done it'd be childs play to make a "message client" that just opens a unxi socket, sends some message for the gui to display/icon/status info |
| 05:26.53 | raster | then clsoes it |
| 05:26.57 | raster | shoudl be aliek a 5 liner |
| 05:27.01 | raster | so in the init scritps |
| 05:27.10 | raster | 1 you spawn the init gui first |
| 05:27.23 | raster | then just exec the init "messager" wheneber you wanto tupdate the gui |
| 05:27.37 | kergoth | yeah, thats what i was thinking as well. either messaging or the existing initctl pipe |
| 05:27.45 | kergoth | thatd be smooth |
| 05:29.39 | raster | i'd do proepr messaging |
| 05:29.42 | raster | and unix socket etc. |
| 05:29.53 | raster | cleaner |
| 05:30.02 | raster | multiple clint can stay connected and do things too |
| 05:30.08 | raster | :) |
| 05:30.34 | treke|ho2e | kergoth: that would be slick |
| 05:31.05 | kergoth | raster: could make it fallback to a curses boot progress if the necessary evas libs arent present |
| 05:31.09 | kergoth | :) |
| 05:31.18 | raster | the biggest decision really is how to "standardise" the gui |
| 05:31.23 | raster | ie do you have 1 progress bar |
| 05:31.27 | raster | or not |
| 05:31.33 | raster | if so how do you calculate its progress |
| 05:31.40 | raster | do you have iocns (ala mac os startup) |
| 05:31.45 | raster | if so what size |
| 05:31.48 | raster | what format |
| 05:31.50 | raster | where |
| 05:31.53 | kergoth | yeah, agreed |
| 05:31.55 | raster | do you allow display of text messages |
| 05:31.58 | raster | multiple lines? |
| 05:32.10 | raster | background - is it just 1 image? |
| 05:32.12 | kergoth | that'll determine how to handle the API of the messaging... what info do we need to pass form the client |
| 05:32.16 | raster | do you have a boot logo overlay too? |
| 05:32.22 | raster | do you allow the user to CONTROLboot? |
| 05:32.27 | raster | ie there is a butotn nd touchscrene |
| 05:32.31 | raster | do you let them cacnel things |
| 05:32.35 | raster | or abort boot and reset? |
| 05:32.42 | raster | how much user input do you allow? |
| 05:32.48 | raster | yup |
| 05:32.50 | raster | exactly |
| 05:32.54 | raster | hey are the bigger questions |
| 05:32.58 | raster | the rest is just mechanics |
| 05:32.58 | raster | :) |
| 05:33.13 | kergoth | brb |
| 05:33.16 | raster | do you put screen calibration into the boot? or leave that till later too? |
| 05:33.22 | raster | many q;s |
| 05:33.24 | raster | many many |
| 05:33.39 | raster | you coudl even give the user choices |
| 05:33.41 | raster | boot gpe? |
| 05:33.44 | raster | boot opie? |
| 05:33.48 | raster | boot picogui? |
| 05:33.58 | raster | boot matchbox x11? |
| 05:33.59 | raster | etc. |
| 05:34.15 | raster | it coudl be quite useful |
| 05:34.23 | raster | in whcih case |
| 05:34.33 | raster | the boot gui shoudl have the ability to contorl the boot process too |
| 05:34.41 | raster | so how would you do this.. |
| 05:34.41 | raster | etc. |
| 05:35.03 | mspencer | what's the logical and in java? && ? |
| 05:35.35 | *** join/#zaurus ZhEN (zhen@wh0rd.tk) |
| 05:35.51 | mspencer | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:36.14 | kergoth | raster: hm, i was originally thinking seperate app for the bootmenu, but init could handle it.. be easier too.. whenever there is 'need -respawn' called on a single VT for multiple apps, assume there's a choice to be made and prompt |
| 05:36.22 | kergoth | raster: if theres a single item on that VT, just fire it off |
| 05:37.22 | Nite_Hawk | hrm... the new ibm model looks kinda.... goofy |
| 05:37.33 | Nite_Hawk | raster: long time no see... :) |
| 05:37.44 | raster | kergoth: that could work. |
| 05:37.49 | raster | Nite_Hawk: hey mate :) |
| 05:37.55 | raster | Nite_Hawk: where you been? |
| 05:38.37 | Nite_Hawk | raster: I stop by gah every now and then. Mostly been working and going to University. Got engaged last summer, so spending time with the woman too. :) |
| 05:38.38 | raster | kergoth: also with some fun you can animate things on a bootloader - liek spining logos etc. :) |
| 05:38.56 | raster | Nite_Hawk: AAH the WOMAN! thatwill take up time! :) |
| 05:39.01 | Nite_Hawk | raster: yep yep. ;) |
| 05:39.08 | raster | and uni - i guess |
| 05:39.16 | raster | tho i had more spare time at uni than any time since... |
| 05:39.44 | Nite_Hawk | raster: I still check out your page and the E page every once and a while... Fun stuff... |
| 05:40.04 | Nite_Hawk | raster: University would be great without having to work to pay for it. :) |
| 05:41.10 | Nite_Hawk | raster: ever see vendu around these days? I was wondering whatever happened to that guy... |
| 05:43.25 | raster | yeah |
| 05:43.31 | raster | paying for thigns whil at uni SUCKS |
| 05:43.34 | raster | nah |
| 05:43.37 | raster | vendu has vanished these days |
| 05:46.34 | gaurdian | OK, I am installing this app, rdcalc, on my sd card. It seems to install ok, I get the icon on the screen, but when I tap to start it it wont run...ideas on where to look for problems ? |
| 05:46.44 | kergoth | gaurdian: run it from the commandline |
| 05:46.59 | Nite_Hawk | raster: yeah, haven't seen him in a couple years atleast... |
| 05:46.59 | gaurdian | uh..ok |
| 05:47.23 | Nite_Hawk | raster: so what are you up to these days? Still coding? |
| 05:47.33 | gaurdian | trying a reinstall now, will try that soon as its finished |
| 05:47.52 | raster | Nite_Hawk: yup. still coding... tonnes of it too. :) |
| 05:48.28 | Nite_Hawk | raster: Do you still work for VA or someone else now? |
| 05:49.30 | raster | Nite_Hawk: man va spat the dummy and fired most of its staff. it doesnt do linux anymore - or hardware. :) |
| 05:49.57 | raster | Nite_Hawk: sinc ei was in engineering.. that meant i went... doing contract coding these days. not very fulfilling :( |
| 05:50.07 | raster | being someone elses bitch that is |
| 05:50.09 | Nite_Hawk | raster: ya, I know mandrake got laid off a while ago there. Wasn't sure if you got the ax too... |
| 05:50.18 | gaurdian | OK, that was it...it dident have exicute perms...odd |
| 05:50.21 | gaurdian | thanks |
| 05:50.24 | raster | mandfrake went before me |
| 05:50.24 | kergoth | gaurdian: np |
| 05:50.31 | raster | they axed workstations |
| 05:50.37 | raster | i just continued in normal engineering |
| 05:50.57 | Nite_Hawk | raster: yeah, I'm getting laid off in june probably. No one has money these days, especially in education. :/ |
| 05:51.10 | Nite_Hawk | raster: ah well, sysadmining was getting boring anyway. :) |
| 05:51.38 | *** join/#zaurus sig (~sig@h-66-167-136-188.STTNWAHO.covad.net) |
| 05:52.42 | raster | Nite_Hawk: yeah.. everyones tight on cash :( kinda sucks. all the interesting stuff stopped :( |
| 05:55.02 | Nite_Hawk | raster: Yeah, lot of practical stuff going on these days, but not a whole lot of new/intersting things. I've been following the gfx realm to kinda get my fill of that. |
| 06:00.49 | raster | yeahBORING normal practicla shite |
| 06:02.12 | mspencer | OK, Java program is done, emailed to instructor, time to start on that step-by-step Zaurus SL-C700 outboard battery pack project (with pictures and a web site to come :) ) |
| 06:02.12 | Nite_Hawk | raster: I wish more was happening with xrender. |
| 06:02.42 | Nite_Hawk | raster: I really like the idea behind quartz extreme in OSX, seems like they actually pulled the implementation off pretty well too. |
| 06:03.21 | Nite_Hawk | mspencer: wow, your actually making one?! |
| 06:03.38 | Nite_Hawk | mspencer: if you single handedly get the C700 over here to the US I'll buy you a drink. ;) |
| 06:03.57 | mspencer | it's a definite do-it-yourself job... |
| 06:04.35 | mspencer | total about $180 all said and done, but you'll have 18 amp-hours of battery life. The onboard pack has 1 amp hour. The different-model battery pack people are talking about shaving off and making fit...has 2. ^__^ |
| 06:05.00 | mspencer | $120 just for the eight D cell batteries. This will be something you carry around in a bag and run a wire to the Z. |
| 06:05.42 | Nite_Hawk | mspencer: ah, I see... So not exactly what they had in mind in the C700 thread then? |
| 06:05.52 | mspencer | probably not :) |
| 06:06.42 | Nite_Hawk | mspencer: was the C700 worth buying? |
| 06:06.55 | mspencer | I don't have it yet. It's going to be another week or week and a half... |
| 06:07.03 | Nite_Hawk | mspencer: ah, I see... |
| 06:07.15 | mspencer | So anything else I say is speculation ^__^ |
| 06:07.28 | kergoth | Nite_Hawk: yes, it is. |
| 06:07.41 | mspencer | anything he says, probably isn't ^__^ |
| 06:08.00 | Nite_Hawk | kergoth/mspencer: I don't have a zaurus yet, trying to decide if I should get in on one of the developer deals with the 5500, or save up for the c700... |
| 06:08.48 | mspencer | honestly, now this is just me...but before going for a c700 you might want to get yourself a cheap other kind of PDA, and just see if there's room in your life for a fiddly toy more-than-just-a-black-book PDA. |
| 06:09.03 | mspencer | I've had an Agenda for nearly a year, and loved it -- but quickly outgrew it. |
| 06:09.26 | mspencer | if I hadn't done a PDA before, there's no way I'd lay out this kind of green for a PDA. |
| 06:09.33 | Nite_Hawk | mspencer: I had a palm pro a number of years ago, but the screen cracked.. |
| 06:10.09 | mspencer | you probably already know then. It seems worth it, but I'm not giving out any advice until I actually have it in my hands. |
| 06:11.03 | mspencer | OK, what should my how-to page start with: should I introduce the parts, with a few pictures and whatnot? |
| 06:11.16 | mspencer | Or should it be like an overclockers mod site and I'll just take snapshots of the build process... |
| 06:11.26 | mspencer | Honestly, I'm picturing something lego-instruction-like, because I suck at this ^__^ |
| 06:11.28 | Nite_Hawk | mspencer: yeah, I'm not sure honestly. I could probably do ok with something like a $100 sony palm device, but that means no wireless, and no linux hacking really.. :/ |
| 06:11.52 | mspencer | or a...hmm, does the channel mind me pimping a competing PDA (the Agenda) in here? |
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| 06:12.10 | kergoth | you must be new here |
| 06:12.16 | mspencer | I am ^__^ |
| 06:12.26 | kergoth | we're rarely on topic |
| 06:12.33 | kergoth | and we usually dont give a shit what gets talkeda bout |
| 06:12.35 | kergoth | so feel free |
| 06:13.05 | mspencer | OK ^__^ Agenda Computing went out of business, but their hardware supplier, SoftField, sells the Agenda for $143 USD which includes shipping to the USA. Only negative is, you've gotta pay by money order. |
| 06:14.22 | mspencer | http://www.softfield.com -- the Agenda has a 160x240 grayscale (4-bit) screen, 16 MB RAM, 16 MB flash. Sound-out is really bad quality and difficult to use anyway...sound in is still purely experimental, kernel-hacking still going on... |
| 06:14.53 | mspencer | serial port (which does work very well), irda port (which I've only used to beam a contact to and from a Palm *once*), consumer IR (which I couldn't get to work)... |
| 06:15.14 | mspencer | (other people say they use their Agenda mostly as a touch-screen remote control, so it appears to work for some people...) |
| 06:16.16 | mspencer | The PIM apps are a bit odd, but they work. I use them. :) You can get a web browser, irc, email, ftp, ssh, pgp, etc -- and there's a cross-compilation environment for your linux desktop. |
| 06:16.53 | mspencer | the executables are usually around 30 to 50 KB, sometimes over 100...but you only really have about 4 or 5 MB of free flash memory after the kernel and rootdisk image. |
| 06:17.30 | mspencer | It runs X and bash...perl is way too big, and microperl wouldn't compile for me. Python is available...Ruby and FLTK work... |
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| 06:18.35 | mspencer | It's a really neat toy. Really cool having a linux box to tinker with like that...and it's cheap...but don't kid yourself, it's no Zaurus. |
| 06:18.55 | kergoth | i was running irssi in console on my c700 earlier |
| 06:19.36 | kergoth | ircing with the keyboard and the horizontal screen orientation is a real pleasure L:) |
| 06:19.40 | kergoth | s/L// |
| 06:20.01 | mspencer | (I can already tell that difference. The mailing lists for the Agenda are still about 'wow, I got such-and-such to work...no kidding, I'd love to try that...' even now, two years after release. Compare that to the Zaurus community... |
| 06:20.16 | mspencer | and it's obvious that a lot more Real Work gets done here. You have a much more capable platform to work from ^__^ ) |
| 06:21.02 | mspencer | OK, I'm burning time, gonna start taking pictures of my battery pack parts :) |
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| 06:42.33 | mspencer | http://mspencer.net/battery -- got pictures of my battery pack parts (unassembled) in the 'unsorted' folder... |
| 06:42.56 | mspencer | native 1600x1200 resolution, large pictures, but let me know what you think, if you're really interested in this or following the project :) |
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| 07:11.41 | hypermush | any show stopper bugs in OZ 3.1rc2 that should stop me from upgrading? |
| 07:11.57 | hypermush | and does the calendar still have a problem with editing repeating appointments?? |
| 07:12.29 | kergoth | dunno |
| 07:12.41 | kergoth | show stopper bugs.. wireless monitor mode doesnt work |
| 07:13.22 | hypermush | thats fine |
| 07:13.28 | hypermush | i cant afford a wificard anyway :) |
| 07:13.37 | hypermush | well maybe i shall try it |
| 07:13.39 | hypermush | thanks |
| 07:13.55 | kergoth | np |
| 07:13.59 | kergoth | hacking on rc3 now |
| 07:15.09 | hypermush | gluck for a great release |
| 07:16.01 | TheMasterMind1 | did rc2 have the new orinoco stuff with the new wireless.. nm, thats with the new kernel |
| 07:16.09 | kergoth | heheh |
| 07:16.19 | kergoth | we have the new orinoco stuff |
| 07:16.25 | kergoth | just no WE16 stuff |
| 07:16.28 | TheMasterMind1 | right |
| 07:16.28 | kergoth | :) |
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| 08:00.59 | mspencer | Well, my first soldering attempt went pretty well. |
| 08:01.12 | TheMasterMind1 | heh |
| 08:01.26 | mspencer | Scrap wire to scrap wire, both ends soldered forming a loop...I can hook one end of the loop around my shoe and pull hard with two hands, and the connections won't give. |
| 08:01.56 | mspencer | it's only scrap wire, so trust me, I went all out. It wouldn't budge. ^__^ |
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| 08:56.39 | Twiun | mspencer: ping |
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| 10:33.18 | IwantAzaurusC700 | hi |
| 10:38.17 | greentea | anyone owns a zaurus c700? |
| 11:19.17 | effy-kun | greentea: yes |
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| 11:46.23 | George- | hi |
| 11:49.23 | mark | hi George- |
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| 12:17.51 | Twiun | hi mark, George-, * |
| 12:23.33 | George- | Twiun: die |
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| 12:28.40 | mark | grr, i hate half terms. theres always too much work and not enough time to go out :( |
| 12:31.41 | George- | mark: go out? blasphemy! |
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| 13:23.15 | greentea | hello |
| 13:23.40 | George- | hi |
| 13:23.47 | greentea | hi |
| 13:28.26 | George- | Is no one alive??? =P |
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| 13:51.58 | mark | hi Twiun. hows life? |
| 13:52.47 | Twiun | same as usual. just had to tweak my wonka patches as those £$(*£&%£ keep updating their code :) |
| 13:54.40 | greentea | anyone played with both ipaq and zaurus b4? which is better? |
| 13:55.14 | Twiun | 'fraid not. Only ever used the Zaurus |
| 13:55.36 | greentea | i s.e.e |
| 13:56.32 | George- | mark: DRMv1, DRMv2, DRMv3 etc? ;) |
| 13:56.45 | numatrix | greentea: yeah, I've used both. Which is better? Depends on what you want. |
| 13:56.58 | George- | greentea: mark had both and iPaq H3630 and a Zaurus 5000D |
| 13:57.17 | greentea | i see.. saw the new c700 yet>? |
| 13:57.21 | George- | greentea: if you want linux, then the Zaurus is the way to go |
| 13:57.26 | George- | greentea: it's got a keyboard |
| 13:57.44 | George- | greentea: if you want to use WinCE stuff as well, and an uber small palmtop, then the Compaq iPaq is the way forward |
| 13:58.26 | George- | Twiun: slob |
| 13:58.31 | greentea | hmmm...ipaq is more expensive.. if i got $, i probably go for c700 |
| 13:58.49 | George- | the C700 apparently has a shocking battery life, and you can see the screen refreshing |
| 13:59.09 | greentea | is it? |
| 13:59.13 | George- | apparently |
| 13:59.17 | greentea | hmm... |
| 13:59.37 | greentea | but it looks quite nice ... my lab has got 2 |
| 13:59.40 | George- | and I think the PXA-250 is slower than the SA1110 |
| 13:59.49 | George- | (unless the stuff is optimized, which it isn't) |
| 14:00.00 | greentea | pxa is intel new chip? |
| 14:00.21 | George- | Xscale |
| 14:00.23 | George- | 400MHz |
| 14:04.08 | greentea | i see. |
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| 14:24.35 | mark | George-: what? DRMv1? |
| 14:24.43 | George- | mark: haha |
| 14:24.51 | mark | George-: the battery life isn't nearly as bad as Jason made out |
| 14:25.19 | George- | mark: on the C700? |
| 14:25.37 | mark | yes |
| 14:26.05 | greentea | hey, how does it fare in reading source codes? |
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| 14:37.37 | Zarchon | Has anyone bought a developer special Zaurus from PC Connection? |
| 14:47.33 | Twiun | mspencer: you had some java-related questions earlier on? |
| 14:48.32 | mark | George-: sex |
| 14:48.46 | George- | mark: I'm not gay, thanks |
| 15:10.54 | mspencer | umm...:) |
| 15:11.14 | mspencer | Thanks Twiun, but I got them figured out on my own. I remembered what 'equals' means in the context of two Java objects ^__^ |
| 15:12.10 | mspencer | I just needed to do a string comparison, so I substring'ed the first character out, converted that to a character, and checked for equivalence that way. |
| 15:13.03 | mspencer | btw, the battery pack project is going pretty well. I've never soldered before last night, but I did a 'training' connection with two bits of wire. |
| 15:13.33 | George- | mspencer: how BIG is this battery pack? |
| 15:13.35 | mspencer | I took two lengths of wire and soldered both ends together to make a loop out of two solder connections...hooked one end around my shoe and pulled HARD with both hands, and it wouldn't budge. :) |
| 15:13.48 | Twiun | mspencer: weren't you asking about a java compiler for the Z as well? |
| 15:13.52 | mspencer | It's going to be about school-textbook-size or a bit smaller. |
| 15:13.58 | mspencer | Oh yeah, a javac for the Z would be nice too :) |
| 15:14.36 | Twiun | you can use Kopi (java-based compiler) or Jikes |
| 15:14.43 | mspencer | roughly 8 inches by 6 inches by 2 inches, with some extra wiring outside the packs. |
| 15:15.05 | Twiun | one thing I haven't been able to source yet is a jdb for the Z |
| 15:15.06 | George- | mspencer: that's huge! |
| 15:15.07 | mspencer | But let me repeat, this pack will get you 18 times the battery life of the stock internal battery, or 9 times the life of the expanded battery people are shaving and making fit into the C700. |
| 15:15.35 | mspencer | Cool -- that kicks ass, though, that one's even available. Even if it's slow and in java, even if rebuilds take 2 minutes for a simple program, that's better than nothing :) |
| 15:16.11 | Twiun | mspencer: well, jikes is in C++, from IBM and it's quite fast |
| 15:16.15 | mspencer | it's designed to just stick it in a schoolbag or something and run a wire from your bag up to your desktop... |
| 15:16.23 | mspencer | ooh, sweet ^__^ |
| 15:16.38 | George- | mspencer: what is it, like 4 D size batteries? |
| 15:16.41 | Twiun | mspencer: http://adorphuye.com/files/ZJikes.zip expands to a 2mb statically linked binary |
| 15:16.43 | mspencer | eight D size |
| 15:16.56 | Twiun | mspencer: no classes.zip though - you'll have to source that yourself |
| 15:17.01 | George- | eight?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?! |
| 15:17.01 | mspencer | that's fine :) |
| 15:17.10 | mspencer | Yes. Eight, two sets of four batteries in parallel. |
| 15:17.35 | George- | you're mad! you're just plain mad! |
| 15:18.00 | mspencer | three fuse holders and fuses (for short-circuit protection), some little white computer-like electronics hookup wires, ending in a little Radio Shack adaptaplug thingey to plug into an extension cord or two, and then into the Z. |
| 15:18.17 | mspencer | Yeah, but I bet I'll be able to run all day at full screen brightness with 802.11b on that pack. :) |
| 15:18.33 | mspencer | hearing that, now I bet you want one :) |
| 15:18.47 | George- | not really |
| 15:19.04 | mspencer | could you see where some people might want one though? Or would I be wasting my time making a how-to page? |
| 15:19.21 | George- | I'd rather put like 8 sets of AAA batteries in parallel :) |
| 15:19.46 | mspencer | but then you'd get less battery life than that expanded (shave a bit off the edge) pack they're talking about... |
| 15:20.16 | mspencer | unless...*checks batteriesamerica for industrial AAA's) |
| 15:20.19 | George- | does that thing fit in a 5000D? |
| 15:21.29 | mspencer | no idea... |
| 15:21.50 | mspencer | industrial AAA's aren't that much higher capacity than off the shelf ones, that or batteriesamerica doesn't sell them... |
| 15:22.09 | mspencer | their industrial NiMH D cells are $14.50 each and hold 9000 mAh -- compare with around 1000 for the stock C700 pack... |
| 15:22.17 | mspencer | but you need 4 D cells at that capacity to reach the voltage you need. |
| 15:22.59 | mspencer | so basically take a NiMH cell, find the capacity in mAh...you need four batteries, but that's the capacity you'd have. |
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| 15:24.20 | mspencer | if you're doing two sets of four batteries in parallel like I am, take that capacity and double it. |
| 15:24.52 | George- | hrmm, I have 1500mAh AAs here =P |
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| 15:26.05 | mspencer | so do I, they're pretty standard for NiMH...so a set of 4 gives you 50% more life than the stock pack in the C700, or only 75% of the life of the larger pack for the C700... |
| 15:26.27 | mspencer | a set of 8 gives you triple the life of the stock pack, 50% more life than the larger pack. |
| 15:27.21 | mspencer | a D cell from these guys holds 9000 mAh and weights 5.92 ounces. |
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| 15:27.49 | mspencer | An AA cell from these guys holds 2000 mAh and weighs 1.03 ounces. |
| 15:27.54 | mspencer | s/weights/weighs/ |
| 15:28.27 | mspencer | Hmm...so that means...if I did a pack of AA cells, lots of them in parallel, with the same weight as my D cell solution... |
| 15:28.50 | mspencer | I could have 24 instead of 18 amp hours, but I'd have to use 48 AA batteries. |
| 15:29.11 | mspencer | at a cost of $168 for just the batteries, from batteries-america... |
| 15:30.23 | mspencer | ack, late for Japanese class... |
| 15:31.41 | supermatt | no swedish class for me tonight - half term |
| 15:31.47 | mspencer | (we're talking 3 pounds of batteries) |
| 15:31.56 | supermatt | yay |
| 15:32.07 | supermatt | more z-time |
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| 15:43.35 | warmi | hi |
| 15:44.19 | chouimat | morning |
| 15:45.27 | *** join/#zaurus George- (~Test@m556-mp1.cvx1-b.man.dial.ntli.net) |
| 15:48.06 | chouimat | George-: openfirmware is a BIOS |
| 15:57.05 | George- | chouimat: OPENFIRMWARE IS NOT A GOD DAMN BLOODY BIOS |
| 15:57.34 | Wintre | Is it an Apple thing? |
| 15:58.15 | chouimat | George-: it's abios but withj more features. you will learn that when you will grow up |
| 15:58.38 | George- | IT'S NOT A BIOS!!! |
| 16:00.53 | chouimat | George-: believe what you want it's a BIOS (Basic Input/Output System) ok a superbios |
| 16:01.19 | Wintre | WTF is this OpenFirmware thing, anyway? |
| 16:01.31 | chouimat | Wintre: powerpc bios |
| 16:01.55 | Wintre | Oh |
| 16:02.01 | Wintre | I figured that was why George got so upset. |
| 16:02.19 | Wintre | It would be technical accurate to call the PC BIOS its "firmware" |
| 16:02.34 | warmi | Open Firmware is the name given to the IEEE-1275 Standard for Boot (Initialization Configuration) Firmware |
| 16:02.37 | Wintre | Classifying all firmware as "BIOS" is very PC-centric |
| 16:02.45 | George- | It's NOT a BIOS!!!! |
| 16:02.59 | warmi | well, it plays the same role as BIOS ( or parts of BIOS) |
| 16:03.03 | Wintre | george-: Why not? |
| 16:03.11 | warmi | so it is BIOS as far as we PC-dudes are concerned |
| 16:03.12 | warmi | :-) |
| 16:03.21 | George- | Wintre: Because it's OpenFirmware |
| 16:03.26 | George- | !!!! |
| 16:06.15 | chouimat | George-: you see it's a bios :) |
| 16:06.33 | George- | chouimat: IT'S FIRMWARE |
| 16:06.37 | George- | FIRMWARE!!!! |
| 16:06.40 | George- | _FIRMWARE_ |
| 16:07.21 | warmi | precisely .. Apple Firmware also know as BIOS |
| 16:07.22 | Wintre | george: Oh. |
| 16:07.23 | warmi | :-) |
| 16:07.25 | Wintre | I see |
| 16:08.09 | George- | MMMHFFFFF |
| 16:08.14 | George- | £%^£$(*&% |
| 16:08.54 | George- | ... |
| 16:09.04 | Wintre | And FOLDOC's |
| 16:09.15 | George- | mmhhnnnfgfgff |
| 16:09.21 | ccamp | is there any way to get to console mode with the OZ |
| 16:10.24 | warmi | hehehe |
| 16:11.41 | George- | IT'S NOT A BIOS |
| 16:11.45 | *** join/#zaurus caffeine (~khedspet@216-187-196-82.dsl.btitelecom.net) |
| 16:12.51 | Wintre | Talk about fanatical adherence to naming |
| 16:13.40 | chouimat | ulyx BIOS? |
| 16:13.40 | ulyx | no idea |
| 16:13.44 | chouimat | ulyx bios? |
| 16:13.44 | ulyx | dunno |
| 16:13.53 | chouimat | ulyx firmware? |
| 16:13.54 | ulyx | dunno |
| 16:14.39 | George- | ............ |
| 16:14.49 | George- | ibot bios is NOT OPENFIRMWARE DAMMIT!!!!! |
| 16:14.49 | | ...but bios is already something else... |
| 16:16.29 | Wintre | ibot bios |
| 16:16.29 | | it has been said that bios is the only bit that's working :) |
| 16:17.49 | chouimat | George-: please, go find someone and get laid ... it's for our mental health. can you do that please? |
| 16:18.22 | *** join/#zaurus Quilb (Quilbicus@idxgos02-161.idx.com.au) |
| 16:18.23 | Wintre | Or at least excise the fanaticism |
| 16:18.40 | George- | chouimat: BIOS != OPENFIRMWARE! |
| 16:19.32 | chouimat | George-: you know that the expression "playing with your palm" doesn't mean playing with your PDA? |
| 16:20.41 | Quilb | anyone know if sharp is planning on releasing a version of the zaurus with integrated bluetooth ? |
| 16:20.54 | George- | chouimat: DIE!!! |
| 16:21.10 | supermatt | lol |
| 16:22.32 | chouimat | George-: sorry it's not on my todo list for today |
| 16:24.22 | kergoth`zzz | yo |
| 16:24.50 | George- | hey kergoth |
| 16:27.48 | *** join/#zaurus ulyx (~charles@modemcable120.184-130-66.que.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 16:51.48 | *** join/#zaurus Hellaenergy (~Hellaener@209.181.237.141) |
| 16:52.52 | *** join/#zaurus bugfixer (~bugfixer@42gis175.gulftel.com) |
| 16:55.56 | kergoth | yo Hellaenergy |
| 16:56.58 | Quilb | does anyone know if the NetGear MA701 has external antenna support? |
| 16:57.29 | *** join/#zaurus Leaves (~Leif@d141-185-136.home.cgocable.net) |
| 16:57.45 | chouimat | ibot change 2172 CAD to usd |
| 16:57.56 | kergoth | chouimat: whats that for? |
| 16:58.16 | chouimat | kergoth: my brother is buying a mac |
| 16:58.25 | Hellaenergy | hey kergoth hows things? |
| 16:58.54 | kergoth | chouimat: ah |
| 16:59.06 | kergoth | Hellaenergy: not bad, still sick of tech support, hacking on OZ. the usual. you? |
| 16:59.33 | chouimat | kergoth: I'm want that mobo http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/boxer/ |
| 17:00.11 | kergoth | chouimat: nice |
| 17:00.22 | chouimat | kergoth: the price too |
| 17:00.25 | Hellaenergy | kergoth: sick of my cheap ass company and hacking on tomcat when I can ;) |
| 17:00.48 | George- | ibot change 5691 GBP to USD |
| 17:01.03 | warmi | Hellaenergy: yeah , me too - my cheap ass company standarized on "Orion" mostly because it is dirty cheap |
| 17:01.08 | warmi | :-) |
| 17:01.18 | chouimat | orion? |
| 17:01.33 | George- | ibot change 666 USD to GBP |
| 17:01.49 | chouimat | tomcat? |
| 17:01.50 | kergoth | hmm |
| 17:01.56 | kergoth | chouimat: just thought of something |
| 17:02.02 | warmi | Orion - java application server |
| 17:02.11 | kergoth | chouimat: I could hack the c700 cf/sd/usb updater to work with the 5x00 |
| 17:02.12 | chouimat | urk |
| 17:02.12 | kergoth | chouimat: :) |
| 17:02.21 | warmi | "almost free" - Java application server ;-) |
| 17:02.28 | chouimat | kergoth: nice |
| 17:02.39 | chouimat | kergoth: got the code? |
| 17:03.35 | Hellaenergy | chouimat: http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat |
| 17:03.57 | kergoth | chouimat: it boots a local copy of a linux kernel for the device, then runs the updater script .. i can disassemble the script, andt he kernel piece is easy |
| 17:04.38 | chouimat | kergoth: huh? |
| 17:05.00 | kergoth | the cf updater is a linux kernel and a script |
| 17:05.02 | kergoth | in the c700 |
| 17:05.10 | kergoth | :) |
| 17:05.28 | chouimat | kergoth: ok it does a dd |
| 17:05.35 | kergoth | yep |
| 17:05.39 | kergoth | quite simple |
| 17:05.59 | chouimat | kergoth: now if we can ditch the bootloader |
| 17:06.36 | kergoth | thatd be nice |
| 17:06.44 | kergoth | c700's bootloader passes in kernel params |
| 17:06.50 | kergoth | so our compiled in kernel commandline is ignored |
| 17:06.52 | kergoth | which is kinda annoying |
| 17:07.02 | kergoth | makes switching to console on VT vs console on serial a pain |
| 17:07.11 | kergoth | since i cant easily manipulate the params the bootloader is passing |
| 17:08.52 | kergoth | cvs -z4 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.xine.sf.net/cvsroot/xine co -r xine-1-beta4-release xine-lib |
| 17:08.55 | kergoth | cvs [checkout aborted]: end of file from server (consult above messages if any) |
| 17:08.57 | kergoth | grr |
| 17:09.29 | chouimat | kergoth: relog without the .xine in the name |
| 17:10.22 | kergoth | chouimat: no luck.. |
| 17:10.24 | kergoth | sf being a bitch again |
| 17:10.27 | kergoth | ~lart sf |
| 17:10.36 | chouimat | kergoth: the script is in the rootfs of the c700? |
| 17:10.44 | kergoth | chouimat: nope, its on a seperate partition |
| 17:10.47 | TheMasterMind1 | sup |
| 17:10.53 | kergoth | chouimat: c700 has a 8mb NOR flash, in addition to its 64mb NAND |
| 17:11.01 | kergoth | chouimat: the NOR is always untouched by operations |
| 17:11.07 | chouimat | kergoth: ok |
| 17:11.08 | kergoth | chouimat: and contains the bootloader, and a kernel and script for its updater |
| 17:11.12 | TheMasterMind1 | i updated to unstable yesterday and installed all the latest software, galeon-snapshot xchat2 gaim-gtk2 .. its so freaking awesome |
| 17:11.15 | kergoth | I need to rip it apart and play around |
| 17:11.15 | *** join/#zaurus icefox (~ben@gatekeepernj3.sharpsec.com) |
| 17:11.16 | TheMasterMind1 | all the apps i use have antialiasing |
| 17:11.20 | TheMasterMind1 | including xterm |
| 17:11.22 | TheMasterMind1 | :DD |
| 17:11.28 | kergoth | TheMasterMind1: yea |
| 17:11.40 | kergoth | TheMasterMind1: i was happy as hell when i saw fluxbox get it |
| 17:11.44 | TheMasterMind1 | xchat2 is pretty sweet |
| 17:11.57 | TheMasterMind1 | it has this thing where it shows you messages in other channels |
| 17:12.06 | TheMasterMind1 | so you don't have to switch over and keep checking when they turn red |
| 17:12.50 | chouimat | kergoth: we need a new bootloader that would enable us to boot from cf for testing purpose ... |
| 17:12.59 | kergoth | chouimat: yes, that would be nice |
| 17:13.19 | kergoth | TheMasterMind1: I'm stuck on irssi.. hopefully xirssi gets that feature |
| 17:13.23 | TheMasterMind1 | hehe |
| 17:13.26 | George- | ljp_work: finally got qt/opie downloaded ;) |
| 17:14.22 | TheMasterMind1 | new gaim is sweet too |
| 17:14.28 | ljp_work | aply those patches to qte before you configure it |
| 17:14.30 | chouimat | kergoth: since it's faster to do a cf image :) |
| 17:14.35 | George- | ljp_work: k |
| 17:14.52 | kergoth | TheMasterMind1: yea, i love the gaim from cvs.. real nice |
| 17:14.53 | George- | ljp_work: I'm just shifting all my sources to my athlon |
| 17:15.02 | kergoth | TheMasterMind1: too bad its gtk.. we need an app like that for opie |
| 17:15.12 | TheMasterMind1 | kergoth: heh, yes we do. |
| 17:15.17 | TheMasterMind1 | gtk2 looks so freaking awesome though |
| 17:15.22 | TheMasterMind1 | with antialiasing especially |
| 17:15.32 | kergoth | yea, but any app using freetype looks as good |
| 17:15.35 | George- | ljp: so you suggest I just go down the bug list and fix stuff |
| 17:15.37 | TheMasterMind1 | thats true |
| 17:15.37 | kergoth | :) |
| 17:15.39 | George- | s/ljp/ljp_work |
| 17:15.43 | kergoth | freetype rocks |
| 17:15.56 | TheMasterMind1 | the one good thing about microsoft.. their fonts :) |
| 17:16.00 | kergoth | hehe |
| 17:16.02 | George- | btw - anyone know if teambuilder works with gcc 3.x? |
| 17:16.03 | kergoth | true that |
| 17:16.09 | kergoth | George-: try distcc |
| 17:16.11 | kergoth | distcc rocks |
| 17:16.25 | George- | kergoth: how does it work? |
| 17:16.30 | ljp_work | yes, teambuilder will work with any versions of gcc |
| 17:16.41 | ljp_work | teambuilder has a cool monitor app |
| 17:16.44 | George- | ljp_work: ok :) |
| 17:16.52 | ljp_work | thaty gives flashing lights and compile stats |
| 17:16.58 | kergoth | George-: open source distributed compiler |
| 17:17.04 | kergoth | works well with ccache too |
| 17:17.05 | kergoth | heh |
| 17:17.10 | George- | hrmm |
| 17:17.12 | George- | any good? |
| 17:17.21 | kergoth | no fancy monitoring tools, just functionality |
| 17:17.22 | kergoth | heh |
| 17:17.28 | kergoth | install it, man distcc |
| 17:17.31 | ljp_work | if you plan on using more than 3 machines in the compile farm, use distcc |
| 17:17.36 | George- | I suppose it'll be faster than compiling all this stuff on a crappy 450MHz K6-2 ;) |
| 17:17.45 | George- | ljp_work: I'm gonna use 2 |
| 17:17.54 | ljp_work | either will work |
| 17:18.13 | George- | TrollTech make teambuilder right? |
| 17:18.17 | ljp_work | I like the monoring in teambuilder |
| 17:18.28 | ljp_work | ya, teambuilder personal is the one you want |
| 17:18.41 | ljp_work | limited to 3 machiens |
| 17:18.50 | ljp_work | machines |
| 17:20.01 | kergoth | woo |
| 17:20.04 | kergoth | SF's cvs is back |
| 17:20.13 | ljp_work | was it gone? |
| 17:20.17 | kergoth | yea |
| 17:20.23 | kergoth | couldnt pull xine |
| 17:20.28 | George- | ljp_work: thanks a lot |
| 17:24.50 | *** join/#zaurus treke|laptop (~ggilbert@12.107.12.130) |
| 17:50.04 | *** join/#zaurus ukozfan (~gary@host217-35-61-117.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 17:54.12 | *** join/#zaurus greentea (~chicken@inet-lab-d17.aist-nara.ac.jp) |
| 17:58.25 | *** join/#zaurus George- (~Test@m526-mp1.cvx1-b.man.dial.ntli.net) |
| 17:58.29 | George- | hi |
| 17:58.38 | George- | Qt compiled on this machine in 8 minutes :) |
| 17:58.44 | TheMasterMind1 | impressive |
| 17:58.48 | chouimat | not again !! |
| 17:58.48 | TheMasterMind1 | wait, no itsnot |
| 17:58.54 | kergoth | eh |
| 17:59.04 | chouimat | ~lart George`Out |
| 17:59.12 | mewyn` | warmi: ping |
| 18:04.57 | *** join/#zaurus mutexer (~spock@adsl-34-170-162.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 18:14.29 | *** join/#zaurus treke|laptop (~ggilbert@12.107.12.130) |
| 18:37.20 | *** join/#zaurus zecke (~ich@pD9E7D148.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:39.17 | *** join/#zaurus SuKoShi (~chokiko@dyn-212-232-76-131.ppp.tiscali.fr) |
| 18:39.28 | SuKoShi | hi |
| 18:39.44 | kergoth | hi SuKoShi |
| 18:40.03 | SuKoShi | no news from japan yet |
| 18:40.17 | SuKoShi | i had a look on jumpx |
| 18:40.22 | SuKoShi | it is a korean input method |
| 18:40.31 | kergoth | kjumpx you mean? |
| 18:40.31 | SuKoShi | that sounds good, but it is korean |
| 18:40.32 | kergoth | :) |
| 18:40.37 | kergoth | jumpx is the english one |
| 18:40.43 | kergoth | also, opie-multikey has a jumpx layout |
| 18:40.47 | kergoth | multikey is remappable |
| 18:40.58 | SuKoShi | i only found kjumpx on killefiz site |
| 18:41.18 | kergoth | SuKoShi: kjumpx, jumpx, and multikey are all part of opie |
| 18:41.20 | kergoth | SuKoShi: :) |
| 18:41.39 | SuKoShi | don't forget that i'm still a Qtopia user |
| 18:41.45 | greentea | sukoshi dake |
| 18:41.53 | SuKoShi | chottodake mou |
| 18:42.07 | SuKoShi | machakun ha ii desu ka? |
| 18:42.10 | greentea | wow..u sound like... |
| 18:42.31 | greentea | machakun ha? |
| 18:42.53 | SuKoShi | daijobu |
| 18:43.04 | greentea | ja ne |
| 18:43.07 | *** part/#zaurus greentea (~chicken@inet-lab-d17.aist-nara.ac.jp) |
| 18:43.09 | SuKoShi | George will shout if he read japanese here |
| 18:45.07 | Twiun | bah, George will survive |
| 18:45.36 | mark | japanese is hard |
| 18:45.45 | treke|laptop | Twiun: unfortunatly |
| 18:45.53 | Twiun | treke|laptop: lol |
| 18:46.13 | kolla | mark: never tried soft japanese? |
| 18:46.46 | mark | kolla: soft japananese? |
| 18:47.06 | mark | kolla: as in romanji? |
| 18:47.18 | kolla | asin opposed to hard japanese |
| 18:47.51 | kergoth | ~lart kolla |
| 18:47.51 | kolla | just pulling your leg, sorry |
| 18:47.54 | mark | kolla: poor joke :P |
| 18:48.02 | mark | ~lart kolla |
| 18:48.04 | kolla | I'm in that mood again |
| 18:48.11 | kolla | hehe |
| 18:48.12 | mark | http://idot.com/TheStore/Desktop/787Spec.asp?Product.id=787&Cate.id=2 |
| 18:48.13 | mark | good buy |
| 18:50.15 | Neo|Work | wonder if that CPU is faster than my PIII-500 laptop |
| 18:50.24 | Neo|Work | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:50.36 | SuKoShi | no it is not as good |
| 18:50.50 | SuKoShi | i used to play with a C3 equipped barebone |
| 18:50.59 | SuKoShi | i installed gentoo gnu/linux on it |
| 18:50.59 | mewyn` | i read idot as idiot at first :) |
| 18:51.22 | Neo|Work | heh |
| 18:51.25 | Neo|Work | I read it as ibot |
| 18:51.28 | SuKoShi | it was slower than the same install on my portege 3490 subnotebook |
| 18:51.33 | mark | mewyn: me too |
| 18:51.51 | mark | mewyn': and again |
| 18:51.57 | *** join/#zaurus pmax (~staikos@216.123.188.114) |
| 18:52.13 | mark | hi pmax |
| 18:52.33 | pmax | hi |
| 18:52.34 | mark | no cd drive though |
| 18:52.34 | SuKoShi | hi pmax |
| 18:52.40 | SuKoShi | just like mine |
| 18:52.44 | SuKoShi | no cd |
| 18:52.50 | pmax | now that people are awake, does anyone know what the deal is with the 5600? |
| 18:52.58 | kergoth | 'the deal'? |
| 18:53.00 | kergoth | heh |
| 18:53.07 | mark | pmax: how do you mean? |
| 18:53.16 | kergoth | hm, whats a good v4l app for pulling video from a webcam? |
| 18:53.20 | kergoth | I havent played with this shit before |
| 18:53.51 | pmax | is it coming out? |
| 18:53.55 | SuKoShi | mmmh something with stream in the name |
| 18:53.57 | pmax | and when? |
| 18:54.02 | SuKoShi | i tried with my philipps cam |
| 18:54.09 | Quilb | pmax: i think the only differebce is the xscale processor isnt it? |
| 18:54.21 | Quilb | difference* |
| 18:54.26 | pmax | better battery, and a few other small thins |
| 18:54.27 | SuKoShi | cpu+ memory |
| 18:54.39 | pmax | maybe even better software :) damn they shipped buggy software |
| 18:54.40 | SuKoShi | pmax: i've got one from japan |
| 18:54.56 | kergoth | pmax: software sucks less, but still sucks |
| 18:55.00 | Quilb | wish they did integrated bluetooth in it. then i would definatly get it |
| 18:55.08 | SuKoShi | memory management REALLY sucks |
| 18:55.25 | Neo|Work | kergoth: pulling video to save or to view? |
| 18:55.30 | pmax | QPE is nice, but some of the apps have loads of bugs, and the whole system layout and pkg tools really suck |
| 18:55.50 | kergoth | Neo|Work: either |
| 18:55.53 | Quilb | so is open zaurus a lot better? |
| 18:55.56 | zecke | pmax: QPE? is dead since 1.4 |
| 18:56.02 | kolla | xawtv? |
| 18:56.03 | kergoth | Quilb: yes. |
| 18:56.12 | kergoth | Quilb: but i'm biased |
| 18:56.14 | SuKoShi | kergoth: CAMSTREAM |
| 18:56.16 | pmax | QTopia whatever |
| 18:56.20 | Neo|Work | kergoth: mencoder is good for encoding, tvtime is great for viewing |
| 18:57.01 | zecke | pmax: It's not of the quality Qt is |
| 18:57.14 | zecke | pmax: not api wise and the implementation is worse |
| 18:57.18 | Quilb | im still not sure about how useful a PDA would be for me but if i get one there is a 9 out of 10 chance i will get the zaurus |
| 18:57.18 | pmax | yup |
| 18:57.26 | zecke | pmax: at least they admit it |
| 18:57.28 | pmax | but it's better than X on a PDA |
| 18:57.33 | treke|laptop | a bit |
| 18:57.35 | pmax | and it's better than PocketPC |
| 18:57.54 | zecke | pmax: X is not bad on a pda.. |
| 18:57.59 | Neo|Work | pmax: better than X only because X doesn't have a ui / environment made for a PDA I'd say |
| 18:58.08 | zecke | treke|laptop: create a Opie/X11 feed |
| 18:58.13 | Neo|Work | qtopia isn't exactly lean |
| 18:58.13 | treke|laptop | Neo|Work: well the do, just not a good one :) |
| 18:58.19 | Neo|Work | zecke: yikes, the worst of both worlds |
| 18:58.20 | treke|laptop | yet |
| 18:58.30 | Neo|Work | treke|laptop: that's what I meant really |
| 18:58.38 | Neo|Work | you need a good laucnher and crap |
| 18:58.39 | treke|laptop | Neo|Work: GPE has promise |
| 18:58.49 | Neo|Work | I don't think it has too much promise |
| 18:58.54 | zecke | Neo|Work: you think Opie is bad? |
| 18:59.13 | Neo|Work | Qt is excellent, QPE feels hasty, unplanned, or simply badly designed |
| 18:59.20 | kergoth | Neo|Work: i'd say all 3 |
| 18:59.24 | treke|laptop | Neo|Work: try all three |
| 18:59.26 | Neo|Work | zecke: I think QPE and Opie are quite bad, yes (core design) |
| 18:59.42 | kergoth | Neo|Work: libqpe and the launcher still suck |
| 18:59.46 | kergoth | Neo|Work: but the rest of opie is quite nice |
| 18:59.47 | Neo|Work | and X11 + QPE would mean you have TWO large systems, not a good thing |
| 19:00.01 | Neo|Work | ditto with X11 + Opie of course |
| 19:00.52 | zecke | Neo|Work: hmm how can you judge about the core design? |
| 19:01.00 | pmax | is trolltech redoing their embedded system internally? |
| 19:01.04 | Neo|Work | zecke: uh. how could I not? |
| 19:01.22 | Neo|Work | zecke: it's confusing and badly documented, and really rather buggy |
| 19:01.35 | zecke | Neo|Work: did you ever look at the PIM API or the rewitten apps? |
| 19:01.40 | Neo|Work | and the whole document system is some failed attempt at abstracting the filesystem |
| 19:01.45 | zecke | pmax: for some Qtopia1.6 they change some stuff |
| 19:01.53 | Neo|Work | zecke: PIM API or rewritten apps != core |
| 19:01.55 | *** join/#zaurus w0d3n (~woden@61.196.174.201) |
| 19:02.09 | zecke | Neo|Work: what is core? the clock applet? |
| 19:02.14 | Neo|Work | no, qpe |
| 19:02.17 | kergoth | zecke: I think he means libqpe and the launcher. |
| 19:02.19 | Neo|Work | libqpe mainly |
| 19:02.22 | Neo|Work | just so |
| 19:02.26 | kergoth | zecke: which both suck horribly, even in opie |
| 19:02.27 | Neo|Work | pretty obvious |
| 19:02.34 | zecke | Neo|Work: we will drop libqpe.. its a matter of time |
| 19:02.38 | kergoth | yep |
| 19:02.48 | Neo|Work | just like core X11 would be the x server/libs, window manager and laucnher /input and crap |
| 19:02.56 | zecke | kergoth: with a new AlarmServer, Categories... we can nearly drop everything |
| 19:03.01 | kergoth | zecke: yep, i know |
| 19:03.07 | Neo|Work | zecke: without libqpe it's no longer qtopia(-compatible) |
| 19:03.09 | kergoth | zecke: you saw my email, i'm a big fan of ditching it |
| 19:03.11 | kergoth | Neo|Work: wrong |
| 19:03.18 | Neo|Work | no, not wrong |
| 19:03.20 | zecke | Neo|Work: what about intalling a libqpe? |
| 19:03.25 | kergoth | Neo|Work: can create a 'libqpe' with the qpe API that interfaces with libopie |
| 19:03.27 | kergoth | Neo|Work: yes, wrong. |
| 19:03.28 | Neo|Work | unless you reimplemt it |
| 19:03.34 | Neo|Work | and then it still sucks |
| 19:03.34 | Neo|Work | so |
| 19:03.40 | kergoth | are you on crack? |
| 19:03.42 | Neo|Work | no |
| 19:03.42 | kergoth | its just a wrapper |
| 19:03.44 | Neo|Work | the API sucks |
| 19:03.47 | kergoth | yes |
| 19:03.49 | kergoth | and old apps will use it |
| 19:03.51 | treke|laptop | Neo|Work: then QPE would still suck, but OPIE would have a nicer API |
| 19:03.51 | kergoth | new ones wont |
| 19:03.51 | zecke | Neo|Work: is warwick near you? ;) |
| 19:03.55 | Neo|Work | the design sucks |
| 19:03.58 | kergoth | yes |
| 19:03.59 | kergoth | it does |
| 19:04.00 | Neo|Work | the document system sucks |
| 19:04.09 | pmax | quite |
| 19:04.12 | kergoth | dood, you're not listening |
| 19:04.13 | Neo|Work | if you still have that, which you must have or it's an entirely differentenvironment, it still sucks |
| 19:04.21 | zecke | pmax: Qtopia1.6 will have a libqtopia with included PIM access classes, timezone handling.. |
| 19:04.23 | kergoth | 1) you can reimplemetn the documents _layer_ while keeping around compatibilty api wrapper |
| 19:04.28 | Neo|Work | I AM listening |
| 19:04.31 | kergoth | you neednt keep the crap implementation |
| 19:04.33 | zecke | pmax: but actually no real clean up |
| 19:04.34 | Neo|Work | and the ABI isn't the problem, the whole system is |
| 19:04.38 | *** join/#zaurus lrz (~pinux@217-117-54-155.teledisnet.be) |
| 19:04.41 | Neo|Work | the idea of the document system is bad |
| 19:04.42 | kergoth | Neo|Work: yes, and we reimplement the system |
| 19:04.44 | Neo|Work | it doesn't work |
| 19:04.44 | pmax | zecke: what the hell is IBM licencing then? |
| 19:04.47 | pmax | this is strange |
| 19:04.51 | Neo|Work | pmax: qtopia |
| 19:04.58 | kergoth | Neo|Work: all we keep is a wrapper libqpe for compatibility with existing apps |
| 19:04.59 | pmax | yeah but... what? |
| 19:05.01 | kergoth | Neo|Work: thats it. |
| 19:05.06 | pmax | are they getting just Qtopia as is? |
| 19:05.10 | Neo|Work | as i said, as long as it's kept, it sucks. :P |
| 19:05.12 | pmax | do they intend to overhaul it? |
| 19:05.15 | *** part/#zaurus lrz (~pinux@217-117-54-155.teledisnet.be) |
| 19:05.19 | Twiun | quick question, in QWidget::eventFilter(o, e); o is the source object, right? |
| 19:05.20 | zecke | pmax: I dunno. the brisbane office of TT got a major drug problem IMHO |
| 19:05.28 | Neo|Work | pmax: I'm sure they will do custom work just as Sharp |
| 19:05.31 | Twiun | zecke: lol |
| 19:05.33 | kergoth | Neo|Work: right. we're saying libqpe goes away completely. all we keep is the lib's ABI for compatibiltiy. thats the goal for post-1.0 |
| 19:05.41 | pmax | zecke: interesting :) |
| 19:05.54 | zecke | pmax: look at the code... |
| 19:05.57 | Neo|Work | kergoth: and my point is, if you still have the "compatibility" it still suck ssince you still need the "document system" |
| 19:05.59 | Neo|Work | among other things |
| 19:06.15 | kergoth | huh? |
| 19:06.26 | zecke | pmax: we met with the product manager of Qtopia and Troll #3 in Frankfurt. They showed us the roadmap |
| 19:06.29 | Neo|Work | personal opinion: either keep it (implementing a compat ABI-safe API isn't worth it imho) or scrap it |
| 19:06.49 | pmax | break BC now before it becomes too popular |
| 19:06.59 | kergoth | pmax: BC is irrelevent |
| 19:07.04 | zecke | Neo|Work: if you want to install a QPE app. You need to install libqpe |
| 19:07.08 | kergoth | maintaining compatibility interfaces isnt difficult |
| 19:07.15 | pmax | ok |
| 19:07.20 | kergoth | the point is fixing crap implementations |
| 19:07.21 | zecke | Neo|Work: if you use a native OPIE with sane OPIE interfaces you won't need the libqpe crap |
| 19:07.26 | mewyn` | woo. |
| 19:07.28 | pmax | well compat interfaces take space |
| 19:07.30 | chouimat | what is the subject? |
| 19:07.30 | Neo|Work | zecke: my point is, if you keep libqpe, you still suck |
| 19:07.31 | mewyn` | free usb cdrw! |
| 19:07.37 | kergoth | pmax: very little. not a concern |
| 19:07.39 | Neo|Work | suckiness is still there |
| 19:07.41 | kergoth | Neo|Work: and your point is full of shit |
| 19:07.44 | Neo|Work | fuck the compatibility |
| 19:07.47 | pmax | and it makes linking slower |
| 19:07.48 | zecke | Neo|Work: it's liking installing libglib1.2 |
| 19:07.51 | kolla | chouimat: basicly "this sucks" :) |
| 19:07.52 | kergoth | pmax: wtf are you talking about? |
| 19:07.57 | kergoth | pmax: this is only for old apps |
| 19:08.06 | pmax | runtime - for C++ code |
| 19:08.07 | kergoth | pmax: 1) get a clue, 2) _then_ join the conversation |
| 19:08.09 | pmax | more symbols |
| 19:08.12 | Neo|Work | and the _implementation_ isn't the main problem |
| 19:08.16 | chouimat | kolla: everything sucks once in a while :) |
| 19:08.21 | zecke | pmax: and old apps only link against libqpe and not the opie lib |
| 19:08.36 | kergoth | Neo|Work: yes, it is. |
| 19:08.52 | Neo|Work | and if you think it's "easy" to keep an ABI-safe compat-lib in C++, you are smoking crack |
| 19:08.55 | kergoth | Neo|Work: most of the existing classes are there for a reason, and a valid one |
| 19:09.02 | Neo|Work | especially if the underlaying architecture is very different |
| 19:09.08 | zecke | pmax: Neo|Work it's like using kde1 and kde2 libs with the same version of Qt |
| 19:09.17 | kergoth | right |
| 19:09.41 | kolla | geh.. didnt work either |
| 19:09.48 | pmax | if someone uses plugins, for instance |
| 19:09.55 | kergoth | pmax: how is that a problem? |
| 19:10.10 | kergoth | chouimat: hehe |
| 19:10.11 | kolla | what on earth could make a kernel boot hang on init? |
| 19:10.13 | kergoth | chouimat: get me one too :) |
| 19:10.15 | treke|laptop | chouimat: bring enough for everyone |
| 19:10.17 | pmax | because if the app links to a BIC version of the libs that the plugin links to |
| 19:10.19 | kergoth | heh |
| 19:10.25 | pmax | you get crashes |
| 19:10.27 | kergoth | pmax: what are you talking about? |
| 19:10.28 | zecke | kergoth: if the plugin does not link libqpe |
| 19:10.47 | zecke | kergoth: you can get unresolved symbols for example |
| 19:10.51 | pmax | we have this problem in KDE already |
| 19:10.59 | kergoth | well obviously if you're trying to use the sharp launcher, you'd want to use the sharp applets for example |
| 19:11.08 | zecke | pmax: Konq can handle it though |
| 19:11.17 | chouimat | kergoth: I will go return the crappy pda soon, and after that I will take severals beers with a big boobed barmaid :) |
| 19:11.22 | pmax | zecke: actually we had to stop dlopen'ing kjs because of this |
| 19:11.24 | kergoth | chouimat: good plan |
| 19:11.25 | pmax | iirc |
| 19:11.43 | zecke | pmax: and you could take the Qt3.0.4 thingie with build keys and so on |
| 19:12.04 | chouimat | kergoth: you know what is annoying in working at home ? |
| 19:12.09 | kergoth | chouimat: waht? |
| 19:12.19 | Neo|Work | chouimat: get cold working in just underwear? |
| 19:12.20 | zecke | pmax: you still dlopen openssl? |
| 19:12.23 | pmax | yes |
| 19:12.26 | pmax | we have to |
| 19:12.31 | zecke | pmax: I know licensing.. |
| 19:12.37 | chouimat | kergoth: a cat that spend all the time on your lap or on the keyboard |
| 19:12.43 | pmax | 2 reasons - licencing, and also openssl is the most bloated library in existence |
| 19:12.44 | zecke | pmax: but how do you assure all symbols reslove? |
| 19:12.44 | kergoth | chouimat: hah |
| 19:13.06 | pmax | zecke: we don't :) well it wont' crash because my wrappers return error codes/null, but stil... |
| 19:13.07 | Neo|Work | pmax: why would you manually dlopen? |
| 19:13.08 | chouimat | Neo|Work: what is an underwear? |
| 19:13.18 | pmax | Neo|Work 2 reasons - licencing, and also openssl is the most bloated library in existence |
| 19:13.23 | Neo|Work | chouimat: gets cold working naked then? |
| 19:13.27 | pmax | openssl is GPL incompatible |
| 19:13.38 | zecke | pmax: did you port etheral to Qt cause of QPE? |
| 19:13.41 | chouimat | Neo|Work: that was true last week :) |
| 19:13.48 | pmax | zecke: not me... |
| 19:13.48 | Neo|Work | you think manually using 'dlopen' is any different than dynamic linking, license-wise? |
| 19:13.52 | chouimat | pmax: openssl sucks :) |
| 19:14.04 | zecke | Neo|Work: yes we do think so |
| 19:14.08 | pmax | Neo|Work: I can argue that, but it's not the main reason, and yes many people ague otherwise |
| 19:14.15 | pmax | chouimat: openssl sucks :) |
| 19:14.17 | Neo|Work | zecke: I'm pretty sure there is no difference |
| 19:14.32 | zecke | Neo|Work: it's like opening a text document :) |
| 19:14.34 | Neo|Work | and how is it GPL-incompatible, if I may ask? |
| 19:14.40 | pmax | Neo|Work: I can use that to prove that opening non-gpl text files is GPL violation too then |
| 19:14.47 | Neo|Work | zecke: no, it's not actaully (I've had a discussion like this with RMS) |
| 19:14.51 | *** join/#zaurus Harlekin (~max@pD9EE1193.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:14.53 | Harlekin | hi * |
| 19:14.55 | pmax | it is a custom licence, and it imposes distribution restrictions |
| 19:15.26 | Neo|Work | the document doesn't interact with and extend the application |
| 19:15.30 | Neo|Work | huge huge difference |
| 19:15.35 | pmax | anyways, my argument is, if you don't like using openssl, don't use it. kde works without it :) |
| 19:15.52 | pmax | Neo|Work: I can make an application that can be interacted with and extended with a text document |
| 19:15.56 | zecke | pmax: and who needs ssl anyway :) |
| 19:16.02 | pmax | zecke: yeah it's rap :) |
| 19:16.05 | pmax | s/rap/crap |
| 19:16.06 | *** part/#zaurus nagrom (nagrom@66-65-12-53.nyc.rr.com) |
| 19:16.10 | Harlekin | ssl ? the one with teh many holes? |
| 19:16.17 | pmax | no that's ssh :) |
| 19:16.20 | Harlekin | no |
| 19:16.21 | Harlekin | sll |
| 19:16.22 | Harlekin | ssl |
| 19:16.28 | Neo|Work | pmax: sure, and then I suppose you could have the same issue (seriously though, dynamic linking == dlopen, functionality wise) |
| 19:16.30 | pmax | tlsv1/ssl3 is not broken |
| 19:17.02 | Harlekin | ah |
| 19:17.03 | Harlekin | yeah |
| 19:17.07 | Harlekin | only openssl had holes |
| 19:17.14 | Harlekin | http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/pab-20.02.03-000/ |
| 19:17.32 | pmax | well in my eyes, they are different, and since I'm the only contributor to KDE SSL, what I say goes right now :) |
| 19:18.19 | *** join/#zaurus lrz (~pinux@217-117-54-155.teledisnet.be) |
| 19:18.36 | chouimat | pmax: how is gnutls? |
| 19:18.41 | pmax | incomplete |
| 19:18.46 | Harlekin | hmm, reminds me of the planed ssh tunnel |
| 19:19.09 | chouimat | pmax: what is missing? |
| 19:19.14 | mewyn` | fuck. fcc just said baby bells don't have to share |
| 19:19.47 | pmax | chouimat: compatibility, sslv2, some certificate handling, extensive testing |
| 19:20.01 | chouimat | pmax: ok so everything then |
| 19:20.33 | pmax | well - lots |
| 19:20.57 | pmax | and anyways, KSSL is 10,000 lines of code, plus tcpslavebase, khtml_part code, and kcmcrypto. I dont' intend to rewrite any time soon |
| 19:21.00 | Harlekin | hmm, does openssl support tcma |
| 19:21.50 | pmax | tcma? |
| 19:22.07 | Harlekin | ups |
| 19:22.08 | Harlekin | tcpa |
| 19:22.25 | pmax | what does it need to support for that? |
| 19:22.35 | Harlekin | generating of safe keys |
| 19:23.01 | pmax | dunno - haven't looked |
| 19:23.41 | Harlekin | btw, what happend to the planed kde tv app? |
| 19:23.47 | pmax | lol |
| 19:23.57 | pmax | I'm talking to one of the other authors right now |
| 19:23.57 | Harlekin | wasnt that somebody with a simular nameß |
| 19:24.13 | pmax | that's me too |
| 19:24.13 | chouimat | pmax: and cryptlib is good? |
| 19:24.16 | Harlekin | whats currently in kdenonbeta is hmm |
| 19:24.19 | pmax | chouimat: dunno |
| 19:24.34 | pmax | Harlekin: once I finish up two other things, I'm going back to it dedicated to try to finish it |
| 19:29.55 | pmax | Harlekin: it's very hard though... I don't know if anyone has ever been able to successfully directly integrate v4l into a Qt app like this. It's ugly ugly stuff |
| 19:31.07 | Neo|Work | tvtime is a really good tv-app |
| 19:31.25 | Neo|Work | does deinterlacing too |
| 19:35.33 | *** join/#zaurus ZhEN (zhen@wh0rd.tk) |
| 19:36.09 | *** join/#zaurus oGMo (~rpav@208.187.9.63) |
| 19:41.15 | gaurdian | kergoth , is there a mp3 player for OZ ? |
| 19:41.27 | kergoth | gaurdian: quite a few. |
| 19:41.28 | *** join/#zaurus ljp_work (~ljp@01-162.026.popsite.net) |
| 19:41.33 | kergoth | gaurdian: opieplayer2, mplayer/xmms-e, etc |
| 19:41.40 | *** join/#zaurus nagrom (nagrom@66-65-12-53.nyc.rr.com) |
| 19:41.44 | gaurdian | ok...reccoemnded one ? |
| 19:42.04 | kergoth | whatever you want. |
| 19:42.08 | gaurdian | ok |
| 19:42.09 | kergoth | try them out |
| 19:44.12 | nagrom | anyone seen daredevil? |
| 19:47.28 | mutexer | yes |
| 19:48.35 | Twiun | yeah |
| 19:48.41 | Twiun | unfortunately |
| 19:50.28 | nagrom | my sentiments exactly. |
| 19:50.40 | nagrom | i'm 3/4ths of the way through it and i want to barf. |
| 19:54.09 | *** join/#zaurus _AleX_ (~alex@euronode.net1.nerim.net) |
| 19:54.21 | oGMo | bah, it wasn't that bad |
| 19:54.36 | oGMo | you guys haven't seen any truly bad comic book movies if you think daredevil was bad |
| 19:55.01 | oGMo | it was poorly paced, but otherwise average for a modern comic book movie |
| 19:55.22 | oGMo | if you want to gag, go watch old Spiderman movies or Captain America or something |
| 19:55.23 | warmi | Evanescence - the soundtrack band sounds great though |
| 19:55.56 | mewyn` | warmi: looks like our dsl may go down the tubes |
| 19:56.07 | mewyn` | fcc said ilec's don't have to share with clecs |
| 19:56.50 | warmi | mewyn: actually I think fcc was wrong in forcing ilecs to what actually amounts to subsidizing clecs |
| 19:57.01 | warmi | this whole mess was created by feds in the first place |
| 19:57.16 | mewyn` | i don't want an ilec running my dsl |
| 19:57.20 | mewyn` | they make a mess of things |
| 19:57.32 | mewyn` | i know people who ahve had ameritech dsl, and it blows |
| 19:57.53 | warmi | it is not about that - the problem was that fcc was forcing ielc to charge only so much for using their lines and therefore clecs were able to undercut ielcs |
| 19:57.55 | *** join/#zaurus _AleX_ (~alex@euronode.net1.nerim.net) |
| 19:58.09 | warmi | since clecs have hardly any costs associated with maintaining lines |
| 19:58.23 | *** join/#zaurus _AleX_ (~alex@euronode.net1.nerim.net) |
| 19:58.44 | mewyn` | i hope this doesn't force covad out of busniess |
| 19:58.58 | warmi | basically, covad will still offer DSL , except it will be as expensive or even more expensive than say ameritech's offering |
| 19:59.43 | oGMo | that sucks ;/ |
| 19:59.56 | mewyn` | i wish there was a good wireless way for high speed internet |
| 19:59.57 | warmi | the problem with the current policy was that ilecs were forced to provide service - you know well how reluctant and slow they were handling requests for clecls |
| 20:00.20 | *** join/#zaurus ljp_work (~ljp@01-100.026.popsite.net) |
| 20:00.21 | warmi | it was simply because there was no money to be made on this and they were doing it only because there were forced to - that is always a sick system |
| 20:00.46 | gaurdian | does the audible alarm work on rc2 ? |
| 20:01.57 | mewyn` | ugh. i need to do my ds homework. |
| 20:02.05 | oGMo | mewyn`: actually, there's a place here called gostnet that's offering highspeed wireless in various areas |
| 20:02.11 | oGMo | it's _very_ affordable |
| 20:02.19 | oGMo | like, it makes cable look bad type affordable |
| 20:02.20 | mewyn` | nothing here |
| 20:03.00 | oGMo | mewyn`: that's too bad... actually i'm not sure if they're offering in my area yet, but it's very viable in terms of business apparently |
| 20:03.06 | mewyn` | warmi: give wolak a kick in the pants if you can ;) |
| 20:05.06 | warmi | yeah, and then I will be looking for a job as well .. |
| 20:05.09 | warmi | :-) |
| 20:06.40 | mewyn` | heh :) |
| 20:07.22 | Neo|Work | damn what a moron |
| 20:07.31 | Neo|Work | "I ordered Forest Fire and I can't install it" |
| 20:07.31 | mewyn` | hrm? |
| 20:07.38 | Neo|Work | so I ask where he purchased it from and what the problem is |
| 20:07.47 | Neo|Work | Problem == browser keeps asking "save as" (doh) |
| 20:07.55 | Neo|Work | and he bought it via paypal |
| 20:07.55 | mewyn` | iesh |
| 20:08.03 | Neo|Work | so I ask if he runs PocketPC (answer == yes) |
| 20:08.10 | Neo|Work | I inform him he bought the wrong product and go to refund |
| 20:08.12 | Neo|Work | can't find him |
| 20:08.16 | Neo|Work | turns out he used handango |
| 20:08.18 | Neo|Work | I mean wtf? |
| 20:08.28 | mewyn` | some people are dumb |
| 20:08.35 | chouimat | hmmm look like high level moron |
| 20:09.02 | Neo|Work | and mind you I asked something like "did you use handango or paypal" |
| 20:09.07 | Neo|Work | so it was one of two options |
| 20:09.21 | warmi | well, I know lots of people who would be hard pressed to understand the difference between PPC and Zaurus |
| 20:09.52 | chouimat | NeoTron: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030209&mode=classic <--- look like a severe stupidity case |
| 20:10.04 | Neo|Work | warmi: never mind that, I gave a two-choice question on where he bought it can he can't figure it out |
| 20:10.30 | warmi | hehe |
| 20:11.05 | warmi | well, you know the rule "the customer is always right" |
| 20:11.30 | Neo|Work | actually, no, the "customer is almost always a moron" I can buy. :P |
| 20:11.42 | chouimat | warmi: but some doesn't have enought brain to be customers imho |
| 20:13.11 | warmi | yeah, I guess |
| 20:13.54 | mewyn` | warmi: i need to get this job soon. i'm going nuts here. |
| 20:15.03 | warmi | yeah, I have talked to wolak just now ( instead of kicking him in his ass , as you suggested) and he said his request is still in and he is still waiting |
| 20:15.11 | warmi | he looked like he was going to kick my ass though :-) |
| 20:15.26 | mewyn` | heh |
| 20:15.37 | warmi | I guess you will remember his name for a while |
| 20:16.00 | mewyn` | but, for example, my family wants me to spraypaint some outlet covers for my sister's recently repainted room |
| 20:16.14 | warmi | ms .. John Wolak - Dir, Enterprise Systems - TMS - Tribune Tower |
| 20:16.16 | warmi | hehe |
| 20:16.52 | mewyn` | i ask them to set the stuff aside, and they don't, then they yell at me for not doing it, despite the fact that i have no clue where it is |
| 20:17.01 | warmi | http://www.zap2it.com/index/0,1146,4_L_0_000,00.html |
| 20:17.04 | warmi | check this page |
| 20:17.12 | warmi | at the very bottom he is listed there |
| 20:17.17 | chouimat | mewyn`: ouch |
| 20:17.22 | *** part/#zaurus pmax (~staikos@216.123.188.114) |
| 20:18.01 | warmi | they listed all the managers, directors but forgot about developers |
| 20:18.05 | warmi | how nice of them |
| 20:18.09 | mewyn` | yah |
| 20:18.17 | mewyn` | they forget developers too often |
| 20:18.28 | chouimat | warmi: developers are not importants ... you can easily replace them |
| 20:19.11 | warmi | well, not always - especially if you are supporting legacy stuff and you know that system inside-out - it is hard to find replacement |
| 20:19.30 | warmi | but generally, even in cases like that - developers are still at the bottom of the ladder |
| 20:19.32 | chouimat | warmi: I know |
| 20:21.37 | mewyn` | meh, i've never really cared about recognition like that, though |
| 20:31.42 | *** join/#zaurus Aimio2 (~user@adsl-189-145.iomart.com) |
| 20:31.44 | Aimio2 | Hi |
| 20:32.58 | *** join/#zaurus jerome_busy (jerome@dhcp-rocq-88.inria.fr) |
| 20:33.01 | jerome_busy | hi guys |
| 20:33.21 | jerome_busy | Is there any reason why desktop files are stored in two different places ? |
| 20:33.51 | warmi | hi |
| 20:34.07 | treke|laptop | jerome_busy: ? |
| 20:34.11 | warmi | which places are these ? |
| 20:34.26 | *** join/#zaurus Novas007 (mike@levy.res.WPI.NET) |
| 20:34.36 | jerome_busy | i found desktop files in at least two places, but cannot tell you exactly my Z is at home |
| 20:34.53 | jerome_busy | or maybe It was just too late at night and I kinda dreamt |
| 20:34.56 | treke|laptop | jerome_busy: application .desktop files are only in $QPEDIR/apps |
| 20:34.59 | warmi | perhaps you were looking at the soft links |
| 20:35.13 | jerome_busy | could be that |
| 20:35.13 | kergoth | maybe he was looking at the document .desktops, not the application ones |
| 20:35.20 | warmi | maybe |
| 20:35.36 | Aimio2 | Heard any speak of Zaurus sound apps? such as soundtracker or something, anything. Need latency/pre-empt? included? |
| 20:35.45 | warmi | normally you will see app .desktop files only in $QPEDIR/apps - liek treke said |
| 20:36.05 | warmi | Aimio2: you mean mod players or mod composers ? |
| 20:36.06 | jerome_busy | kergoth: would it be hard to recompile libopie to first look for files instead of inlined icons (I've never done cross compiling) |
| 20:36.18 | kergoth | jerome_busy: not hard at all |
| 20:36.48 | Aimio2 | anything for making music :) |
| 20:37.00 | jerome_busy | kergoth: next week I'm on vacation and if I get time to put Linux on my laptop I may try it |
| 20:37.06 | warmi | ah - I don';t know about that - I know there are many mod players |
| 20:37.16 | warmi | but I haven't seen any trackers |
| 20:37.38 | Aimio2 | is pre-emption in any of the roms? |
| 20:37.59 | kergoth | Aimio2: no |
| 20:38.04 | kergoth | Aimio2: and will not be while on 2.4.6 |
| 20:38.34 | jerome_busy | kergoth: is there any doc on how to compile libopie or the Makefile should do the trick |
| 20:38.35 | Aimio2 | hold-back due to mmc? |
| 20:38.42 | kergoth | jerome_busy: read the wiki and readme. |
| 20:38.43 | Aimio2 | (side-port thing) |
| 20:38.48 | kergoth | Aimio2: mmc/sd. |
| 20:38.51 | Aimio2 | ty |
| 20:39.05 | kergoth | and since sharp istn cooperating.. |
| 20:39.15 | Aimio2 | sorry to bring it up |
| 20:39.18 | jerome_busy | kergoth: thx |
| 20:39.27 | kergoth | fyi: http://www.openembedded.org/phpwiki/index.php/KergothsTODO |
| 20:39.38 | kergoth | for those wondering what i'm working on for OZ and the like |
| 20:41.44 | Aimio2 | Has OOS mmc, non-sd driver been suggested? Do sharp provide a closed-src module for 2.4.19+? |
| 20:46.24 | *** join/#zaurus mark (~mark@s.westcott.freeuk.com) |
| 20:46.59 | kergoth | Aimio2: I cant port a mmc driver until sharp gives me specs |
| 20:47.05 | kergoth | Aimio2: which they _finally_ did after over a year |
| 20:47.12 | kergoth | Aimio2: and it sin japanese. i'm waiting for translation |
| 20:47.19 | kergoth | Aimio2: sharp wont build a new binary module |
| 20:47.56 | Aimio2 | got those docs published, we see if we can find someone to translate |
| 20:48.05 | kergoth | ? |
| 20:48.06 | kergoth | no |
| 20:48.12 | kergoth | you're not listening to me. |
| 20:48.13 | *** join/#zaurus George- (~Test@m392-mp1.cvx3-a.bre.dial.ntli.net) |
| 20:48.18 | kergoth | 1) they will _never_ be publically releaesd |
| 20:48.27 | kergoth | 2) i already have a developer translating the sections i need |
| 20:48.44 | Aimio2 | ic, the documentation has been given to you and you're not allow to share that infomation |
| 20:48.48 | George- | kergoth: heya |
| 20:49.00 | George- | kergoth: translating what? |
| 20:49.08 | mark | can anyone adept at maths do a quick some for me? |
| 20:49.20 | George- | yeh! =P |
| 20:49.34 | kergoth | Aimio2: yes, i have it under a nondisclosure agreement. |
| 20:49.54 | George- | kergoth: is this the SD stuff? |
| 20:50.00 | kergoth | no |
| 20:50.07 | kergoth | this is MMC specifically |
| 20:50.12 | mark | George-: 9 - 2x - 2x^2 / 2 + x - x^2 |
| 20:50.13 | kergoth | the specs will let us have a open source mmc driver |
| 20:50.45 | George- | kergoth: cool |
| 20:50.51 | George- | kergoth: but SD won't work, I take it |
| 20:50.58 | kergoth | correct. |
| 20:51.02 | George- | I hate the DMCA |
| 20:51.06 | kergoth | and it will not until I make the decision on what to do in that regard |
| 20:51.10 | kergoth | which will not happen until post-3.1 final |
| 20:51.20 | mark | George-: i'm sure it hates you |
| 20:51.27 | Aimio2 | kergoth: I wish u the strength of patience dealing with Sharp. Don't be afraid to employ the help of someone wiser in negotiation if you feel they are using you |
| 20:51.34 | treke|laptop | George-: this isnt the DMCA |
| 20:51.46 | treke|laptop | George-: this is plain old Non Disclosure Agreements |
| 20:51.53 | George- | treke|laptop: for the SD stuff |
| 20:51.57 | mutexer | do you think picoGUI will be better than Qtopia or are they about the same? |
| 20:52.00 | kergoth | the DMCA just prevents me from disassembling the existing driver |
| 20:52.02 | treke|laptop | George-: Once again, not SD |
| 20:52.04 | kergoth | mutexer: they're completely different in nature |
| 20:52.10 | kergoth | mutexer: picogui has no PIM apps |
| 20:52.19 | kergoth | mutexer: yet anyway |
| 20:52.27 | mutexer | its a lightweight windowmanager? |
| 20:52.36 | kergoth | .. |
| 20:52.38 | kergoth | go READ |
| 20:52.44 | George- | kergoth: precisely. |
| 20:52.48 | kergoth | its not a windowmanager, a windowmanager implies X |
| 20:52.52 | kergoth | its not X |
| 20:52.59 | kergoth | its a completely different system |
| 20:53.01 | kergoth | go read about it |
| 20:53.04 | mark | George-: do my sum |
| 20:53.07 | mutexer | I wasnt implying X |
| 20:53.19 | kergoth | mutexer: its a completely different GUI environment |
| 20:53.24 | treke|laptop | the term window manager does imply X though |
| 20:53.25 | kergoth | mutexer: that ipmlies alot more than managing windows. |
| 20:53.28 | kergoth | yep |
| 20:53.58 | mutexer | window manager to me is something that handles windows ... explorer is a window manager and it doesnt use X |
| 20:54.00 | George- | mark: no |
| 20:54.12 | kergoth | mutexer: and picogui is alot more than a window manager |
| 20:54.19 | mutexer | I know that |
| 20:54.23 | kergoth | mutexer: just as qt/embedded does more than manage windows |
| 20:54.31 | kergoth | then no, its not a lightweight window manager, its a GUI environment |
| 20:54.33 | Aimio2 | Don't worry, companies can be swayed if we keep a money based attitude. If we can't persuade don't let it get to us; there are greater injustices in the open vs closed source attitude sway |
| 20:54.34 | kergoth | which is larger scale |
| 20:54.38 | George- | mutexer: just admit you're wrong... kergoth is a bitch to argue with ;) |
| 20:54.48 | George- | mutexer: (especially when he's right) |
| 20:54.57 | mutexer | ok let me rephrase... its a lightweight GUI environment? |
| 20:55.00 | kergoth | yes |
| 20:55.05 | kergoth | its very small |
| 20:55.10 | kergoth | good on devices qt/e would be useless on |
| 20:55.11 | mutexer | thats all you had to say in the beginning :) |
| 20:55.12 | mark | George-: fixe dit |
| 20:56.21 | George- | kergoth: regarding the SD issue, can't you make a module that loads the current 2.4.6 module within itself? |
| 20:56.40 | George- | kergoth: and acts as a compatibility layer between the current SD module and 2.4.19? |
| 20:56.55 | kergoth | not going to work |
| 20:56.57 | kergoth | I already wrote one |
| 20:57.05 | George- | hrmm |
| 20:57.06 | kergoth | and it worked around 3 of the bugs |
| 20:57.12 | kergoth | but their driver access an array in the kernel directly |
| 20:57.13 | George- | ouch |
| 20:57.17 | kergoth | not through a function call |
| 20:57.20 | kergoth | and that array's structure has changed |
| 20:57.22 | kergoth | .. |
| 20:57.24 | George- | is that sloppy programming? |
| 20:57.31 | kergoth | yes |
| 20:57.33 | nayr | mostly |
| 20:57.37 | kergoth | it couldve been designed in a sane fashion |
| 20:57.42 | kergoth | well |
| 20:57.49 | kergoth | its expected that you touch that array |
| 20:57.53 | kergoth | all the block drivers do |
| 20:58.04 | kergoth | but they shoudlve split the kernel specifics into a seperate module from teh core init code |
| 20:58.12 | kergoth | similar to how nvidia handles theirs |
| 20:58.27 | George- | This sucks |
| 20:58.45 | kergoth | ? |
| 20:58.53 | George- | kergoth: the whole SD issue |
| 20:59.02 | kergoth | yeah, i was bitching about it weeks ago |
| 20:59.05 | kergoth | when i figured all this out |
| 20:59.12 | *** join/#zaurus mtm (~mtmm@lax.oingo.com) |
| 20:59.12 | kergoth | its on hold until post 3.1 final when i make a final decision on it |
| 20:59.18 | treke|laptop | thats what you get for depending on proprietary technologies :) |
| 20:59.27 | George- | kergoth: how's 2.4.19 then other than SD? |
| 21:00.08 | kergoth | George-: just fine. ts needs some TLC, and a couple really minor bits to finish |
| 21:00.16 | kergoth | like making it obey the normal operation / replace battery switch |
| 21:00.17 | George- | great |
| 21:00.38 | mark | touchscreen done? |
| 21:01.05 | kergoth | it works, but the values are odd |
| 21:01.14 | kergoth | it could be i can adapt the calibration to be able to handle it |
| 21:03.03 | George- | kergoth: tried contacting SD corp? |
| 21:04.03 | kergoth | George-: useless. |
| 21:04.08 | kergoth | George-: the driver is sharp's, not SDs |
| 21:04.14 | kergoth | George-: look, i have this handled. |
| 21:04.18 | kergoth | George-: just sit quietly :P |
| 21:05.00 | *** join/#zaurus mewyn` (~mike@dsl081-228-057.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 21:05.07 | George- | kergoth: yeh, but you could try and get the info directly from SD :) |
| 21:05.20 | kergoth | .. |
| 21:05.26 | kergoth | NO SHIT SHERLOCK |
| 21:05.27 | George- | kergoth: and ok, I'll sit quietly, cursing the DMCA and SD and Sharp etc in my head ;) |
| 21:05.33 | kergoth | you have to pay $1000 a year for the liense |
| 21:05.42 | kergoth | and thats one of the many possibilities i'm considering |
| 21:05.44 | George- | oh right, not good |
| 21:05.47 | kergoth | which i'll decide on POST-3.1! |
| 21:05.51 | kergoth | SO SHUT UP |
| 21:05.52 | kergoth | jesus |
| 21:06.19 | kergoth | heh |
| 21:06.57 | Aimio2 | we owe for this kergoth, curse as you wish <bows down> ;) |
| 21:07.27 | kergoth | George-: go read the part of the news page that says dont ask me about sd |
| 21:07.30 | kergoth | George-: then read it again |
| 21:07.31 | kergoth | George-: and again |
| 21:07.46 | George- | kergoth: cool, does that mean we'll have SD support by the end of the year? |
| 21:08.25 | *** kick/#zaurus [George-!~kergoth@dsl081-228-056.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net] by kergoth (maybe) |
| 21:08.25 | ulyx | kergoth: I hate you :( |
| 21:08.48 | *** join/#zaurus George- (~Test@m392-mp1.cvx3-a.bre.dial.ntli.net) |
| 21:08.49 | George- | hehe |
| 21:11.23 | *** join/#zaurus icefox (~ben@gatekeepernj3.sharpsec.com) |
| 21:13.54 | kergoth | http://www.openembedded.org/phpwiki/index.php/TODO .. no longer kergothsTODO |
| 21:14.05 | kergoth | main TODO for OZ and OE until we get a php driven task manager |
| 21:14.46 | *** join/#zaurus icefox (~ben@gatekeepernj3.sharpsec.com) |
| 21:17.13 | George- | ljp: opie wouldn't compile |
| 21:17.19 | mutexer | anyone know how to get qvfb & qpe to work? it tries to open qpe too quickly and fails |
| 21:17.37 | kergoth | George-: thats like saying 'its broke' |
| 21:17.42 | kergoth | mutexer: ? |
| 21:17.49 | kergoth | mutexer: qvfb doesnt run qpe.. you do |
| 21:18.07 | mutexer | you can do qvfb & qpe and itll work sometimes |
| 21:18.09 | George- | kergoth: ok, it's broke! |
| 21:18.16 | kergoth | ~lart George- |
| 21:18.32 | kergoth | mutexer: so its a timing issue.. qvfb && (sleep 5; qpe;) |
| 21:18.37 | mutexer | at least I used to always use it on mandrake... might have been cause it was slow |
| 21:18.49 | kergoth | or whatever |
| 21:18.50 | kergoth | heh |
| 21:18.50 | mutexer | k.. the sleep command is what I didnt know |
| 21:18.51 | mutexer | thx |
| 21:19.00 | kergoth | sleep is how you introduce a delay |
| 21:19.01 | kergoth | np |
| 21:19.11 | kergoth | ibot: logs |
| 21:19.12 | | http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/, or stats http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz |
| 21:20.02 | George- | kergoth: twas in euroconv, i've disabled that from compiling now ;) |
| 21:20.47 | *** join/#zaurus lsmith (~vandal@p213.54.20.85.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 21:23.26 | Twiun | anyone know why o in QWidget::eventFilter(QObject* o, QEvent* e) isn't a pointer to any known widget? |
| 21:23.49 | George- | Twiun: it's kergoth's fault |
| 21:23.53 | George- | Twiun: no idea why, but it is |
| 21:24.40 | *** join/#zaurus oGMo (~rpav@216.190.2.72) |
| 21:24.59 | George- | That's insane |
| 21:25.04 | George- | I need to sort my life out |
| 21:25.04 | George- | lol |
| 21:25.20 | George- | 18 frickin' months! |
| 21:26.21 | George- | In file included from gsmtool.h:3, |
| 21:26.22 | George- | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:26.22 | George- | gsmtoolbase.h:12:22: qvariant.h: No such file or directory |
| 21:26.22 | George- | gsmtoolbase.h:13:21: qwidget.h: No such file or directory |
| 21:26.23 | George- | bleh |
| 21:28.44 | Twiun | sounds like you're not making $QTDIR/include available |
| 21:28.46 | kergoth | disable gsmtool too then |
| 21:28.55 | kergoth | nah that .pro is likely borked |
| 21:29.05 | kergoth | doesnt have QTDIR/include in its includepath |
| 21:29.27 | George- | Twiun: it's got -I/home/george/OpieCVS/qt-2.3.4-beta5/include |
| 21:29.34 | George- | Twiun: and qwidget.h is definitely in there |
| 21:29.38 | kergoth | George-: just disable gsmtool. |
| 21:29.42 | George- | kergoth: k |
| 21:31.48 | George- | qrichtext.o: In function `Qt3::QTextFormatter::bidiReorderLine(Qt3::QTextParagraph*, Qt3::QTextString*, Qt3::QTextLineStart*, Qt3::QTextStringChar*, Qt3::QTextStringChar*, int, int)': |
| 21:31.49 | George- | qrichtext.o(.text+0x21a7a): undefined reference to `Qt3::QComplexText::bidiReorderLine(Qt3::QBidiControl*, QString const&, int, int, QChar::Direction)' |
| 21:31.50 | George- | grah |
| 21:32.03 | kergoth | heh |
| 21:32.07 | kergoth | qt3? |
| 21:32.11 | kergoth | odd |
| 21:32.11 | George- | No idea |
| 21:32.24 | George- | Oic |
| 21:32.35 | George- | opie-write obviously has a qrichtext class backported to qt2 |
| 21:32.40 | George- | by the looks of it |
| 21:36.35 | *** part/#zaurus jerome_busy (jerome@dhcp-rocq-88.inria.fr) |
| 21:37.06 | George- | kergoth: perhaps it's because I'm using gcc 3.2 :) |
| 21:37.20 | *** join/#zaurus gtr (~gtr@dsl-213-023-036-196.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:37.32 | kergoth | George-: heh, cut it out :) |
| 21:37.40 | kergoth | George-: you do realize you lose BC doing tha tiright? |
| 21:37.49 | George- | kergoth: ? |
| 21:38.25 | kergoth | gcc3.2's c++ abi is different |
| 21:38.30 | kergoth | you lose binary compatibility |
| 21:38.37 | George- | kergoth: it's either gcc 2.95.x on a 450MHz K6-2, or gcc 3.2 on a 2GHz :) |
| 21:38.40 | kergoth | or are you building for x86 just for dev purposes? |
| 21:38.47 | George- | kergoth: I'm building for x86 for debugging |
| 21:38.51 | kergoth | gotcha |
| 21:39.11 | George- | kergoth: ljp suggested I go down the opie mantis bugs, and fix some |
| 21:39.17 | George- | kergoth: I can't believe I agreed |
| 21:39.38 | kergoth | its a good idea |
| 21:39.40 | kergoth | theres a shitload of em |
| 21:39.46 | George- | yah, I know |
| 21:39.55 | George- | but I'm having trouble compiling the frickin' thing !!!! :) |
| 21:41.43 | George- | then again.. it's quicker than my tibook at compiling |
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| 21:59.54 | *** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-435182be.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 22:00.18 | George- | yay! |
| 22:00.21 | George- | Steve Penk is on! |
| 22:05.57 | George- | wahoo!! |
| 22:06.02 | George- | opie finally finished building!! |
| 22:06.12 | *** join/#zaurus mewyn` (~mike@dsl081-228-057.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 22:07.44 | George- | cya |
| 22:07.49 | George- | upgrading this distro |
| 22:07.54 | George- | to something more sane :) |
| 22:08.24 | *** part/#zaurus George- (~Test@m392-mp1.cvx3-a.bre.dial.ntli.net) |
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| 22:16.55 | Cloudchaser_ | hey.. there's a gba emu for linux...any chance that would work on the zaurus? |
| 22:18.09 | Cloudchaser_ | i downloaded it for my pc...unzipped it and it just ran from command line |
| 22:18.18 | Cloudchaser_ | didn't have to compile it or anything |
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| 23:01.51 | gtr | hi |
| 23:04.16 | phoen][x | python is lovely |
| 23:04.26 | kergoth | i'm still learning it |
| 23:04.32 | kergoth | and keep ending lines in ; goddamnit |
| 23:04.33 | kergoth | :) |
| 23:04.47 | phoen][x | our whole package-management is written in py |
| 23:04.47 | kergoth | too many years of perl and c and c++ |
| 23:04.57 | kergoth | what package management? |
| 23:05.06 | phoen][x | portage. the gentoo package-manager. |
| 23:05.10 | kergoth | ah |
| 23:05.10 | kergoth | yeah |
| 23:05.32 | phoen][x | its not too hard to learn, and its mighty |
| 23:05.36 | kergoth | indeed |
| 23:05.51 | phoen][x | you wrote perl and you like python? is that possible? :) |
| 23:05.52 | kergoth | we're using it as the new open embedded build system |
| 23:05.57 | kergoth | http://openembedded.org/ |
| 23:06.04 | kergoth | phoen][x: dood, i can write code.. and .. read it later! |
| 23:06.07 | kergoth | phoen][x: i'm amazed |
| 23:06.09 | kergoth | phoen][x: :) |
| 23:06.20 | treke|laptop | kergoth: why would you want to do that? |
| 23:06.38 | phoen][x | kergoth: indeed. and i love the fact that you do everything without {} |
| 23:06.44 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:07.11 | kergoth | i like {}, but the forcing formatting in syntax really makes things readable |
| 23:07.24 | phoen][x | yes it does. |
| 23:07.38 | phoen][x | it forces those lazy programmers to write a better style |
| 23:08.01 | kergoth | well, other than intending. programmers will still argue about intendation :) |
| 23:08.12 | kergoth | "no, its 4 spaces!" .. "no, its tabs!" |
| 23:08.15 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:08.23 | gtr | *g* |
| 23:08.46 | kergoth | treke|laptop: yeah, it limits flexibility |
| 23:08.59 | kergoth | treke|laptop: but its an intentional limit to force format |
| 23:09.03 | kergoth | treke|laptop: so i can see why they did it |
| 23:09.08 | phoen][x | lol |
| 23:09.12 | kergoth | I use real tabs, myself |
| 23:09.29 | kergoth | if i'm indented enough to run off my terminal, my code needs a redesign |
| 23:09.30 | kergoth | :) |
| 23:09.37 | kergoth | treke|laptop: i hate that |
| 23:09.52 | treke|laptop | kergoth: which basically forces me to use spaces all the time :) |
| 23:10.13 | kergoth | phoen][x: wheres the portage code? I'm not on gentoo, but want to d/l it and peruse it |
| 23:10.28 | phoen][x | kergoth: let me get you an url. |
| 23:10.32 | kergoth | thanks |
| 23:12.49 | kergoth | Given I'm hacking on a buildsystem, and schurig and I agreed to take aspects of portage into the new system.. |
| 23:12.52 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:13.16 | treke|laptop | maybe oz should replace ipkg with portage |
| 23:13.34 | Harlekin | treke|laptop: size |
| 23:13.35 | gtr | would be nicer, I think |
| 23:13.56 | treke|laptop | Harlekin: I hope you didnt think that was a serious suggestion |
| 23:13.59 | kergoth | hehe |
| 23:14.17 | Harlekin | i did |
| 23:14.26 | treke|laptop | I couldnt imagine compiling everything on dual athlon, let alone a 206mhz strong arm |
| 23:14.30 | Harlekin | same as the debian maniacs |
| 23:14.37 | Harlekin | they think dpkg is suitable |
| 23:14.41 | phoen][x | kergoth: http://cvs.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/gentoo-x86/sys-apps/portage/files/portage-rescue-2.0.44-x86.tbz2?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/plain - thats a tbz2. unpack it and check out the stuff in usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/ and usr/bin/emerge. |
| 23:15.22 | kergoth | Harlekin: dpkg is suitable, apt isnt :) |
| 23:15.28 | kergoth | Harlekin: fyi, bug1 is working on a busybox apt.. |
| 23:15.31 | Harlekin | dpkh not either |
| 23:15.36 | Harlekin | kergoth: caching packages |
| 23:15.38 | kergoth | Harlekin: busybox apt + busybox dpkg could very well be a solid ipkg replacement |
| 23:16.23 | Harlekin | depends on the size |
| 23:16.48 | gtr | I hate the sharp keyboard, no | on it :-( |
| 23:17.00 | kergoth | gtr: shift+space or fn+space depending on context |
| 23:17.01 | Harlekin | gtr: i think there was one |
| 23:17.06 | kergoth | gtr: read the zaurus faq |
| 23:17.16 | Harlekin | gtr: there are also {} [] and some more |
| 23:17.20 | phoen][x | kergoth: some things are kinda hax0rish though :) |
| 23:17.26 | kergoth | Harlekin: its busybox.. busybox applets are pretty small by nature |
| 23:17.27 | gtr | That point i didn't found, Many Thanx |
| 23:17.36 | treke|laptop | kergoth: hmmm, just plain dpkg is taking up 20 megs of space on my laptop |
| 23:17.37 | Harlekin | handbooks are good sometimes |
| 23:17.41 | kergoth | treke|laptop: whee |
| 23:17.46 | kergoth | busybox dpkg isnt bad |
| 23:17.50 | kergoth | just lacks net install |
| 23:17.58 | treke|laptop | ah there is a dpkg busybox applet |
| 23:18.01 | Harlekin | thats usefull |
| 23:18.03 | treke|laptop | though you meant real dpkg |
| 23:19.43 | kergoth | phoen][x: ehh yeah i noticed |
| 23:19.46 | kergoth | phoen][x: :) |
| 23:20.03 | phoen][x | kergoth: there was this user-boom... |
| 23:20.32 | kergoth | hehe |
| 23:20.55 | phoen][x | well, you should know that :) |
| 23:21.02 | kergoth | ah, the portage spawn w/ sandbox function looks spiffy |
| 23:21.05 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:21.25 | phoen][x | sandbox is evil though. it interrupts system calls. |
| 23:21.44 | kergoth | yeah, not like i'll be using it without alteration :) |
| 23:21.49 | kergoth | some of this will be useful though |
| 23:21.53 | kergoth | hrm |
| 23:22.02 | kergoth | or not |
| 23:22.40 | phoen][x | well, it was designed for something else. :) |
| 23:22.48 | kergoth | yep |
| 23:23.36 | kergoth | thing is, all its python modules are GPL.. i'd rather have this system BSD |
| 23:23.41 | kergoth | so maybe i'll just reimplement |
| 23:23.54 | kergoth | lots to be done before we start actual implementation anyway |
| 23:23.59 | kergoth | further policy decisions to be made |
| 23:24.01 | kergoth | scripts to write |
| 23:24.31 | kergoth | phoen][x: take a look at openembedded.org, if you have any ideas, let me know |
| 23:24.43 | phoen][x | will do that. |
| 23:24.48 | ccamp | ho ho |
| 23:26.11 | *** join/#zaurus mutexer (~spock@adsl-34-170-162.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 23:27.31 | kergoth | treke|laptop, treke|ho2e: nelson was wondering where your OZ room images are |
| 23:27.35 | kergoth | s/room/root/ |
| 23:28.16 | treke|laptop | http://info.brooks.edu/~ggilbert/oz-ipaq.jffs2 is where I usually put it |
| 23:28.22 | treke|laptop | that one is a bit old though |
| 23:28.39 | phoen][x | kergoth: you plan to use devfs? |
| 23:29.26 | gtr | does anybody have a link handy for key-combinations for {}, ... ? I only found | til now |
| 23:29.39 | *** part/#zaurus Leaves (~Leif@d141-185-136.home.cgocable.net) |
| 23:29.41 | treke|laptop | kergoth: doing alsa right now |
| 23:29.59 | ccamp | someone should port gentoo to the Z :P |
| 23:30.13 | ccamp | rsync > ap-get |
| 23:30.24 | *** join/#zaurus Leaves (~Leif@d141-185-136.home.cgocable.net) |
| 23:30.29 | gtr | and tomshardware should tell, how to overclock ;-) |
| 23:30.53 | treke|laptop | ccamp: yeah becasue you now its great generating 1.6 gigs worth the object files to install a system in 16mb of storage |
| 23:31.12 | gtr | dev/null is a good compressor |
| 23:31.30 | gtr | ok not really lossless, but |
| 23:31.42 | treke|laptop | lossless compression is overrated |
| 23:32.17 | ccamp | treka the source wouel be dl'ed to a pc, cross compiled, then pu ton your Z either through the dock or thru scp / rsync |
| 23:32.32 | treke|laptop | ccamp: and why would we do this? |
| 23:32.43 | treke|laptop | what is there to gain? |
| 23:32.45 | ccamp | im totally joking. |
| 23:32.50 | treke|laptop | ok good :) |
| 23:33.00 | gtr | Platform independency ;-) |
| 23:33.24 | ccamp | i do give props to gentoo tho |
| 23:34.36 | *** join/#zaurus w0d3n (~woden@61.196.174.73) |
| 23:40.10 | kergoth | phoen][x: I'm not a big fan of devfs |
| 23:40.20 | kergoth | phoen][x: besides, it was crap in 2.4.6 |
| 23:40.24 | kergoth | phoen][x: :) |
| 23:40.54 | phoen][x | kergoth: i read something in the wiki, and i wondered if devfs would be useful - all Z's come with the same hardware, no? |
| 23:41.00 | kergoth | .. |
| 23:41.05 | kergoth | 5000d/5500, yes |
| 23:41.15 | kergoth | 'all Z\'s' is a big too all enclusive |
| 23:41.18 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:41.29 | phoen][x | 'all Z\'s' in germany :) |
| 23:41.36 | phoen][x | yeah you are right |
| 23:41.57 | phoen][x | i wouldnt use devfs though. takes away more resources. |
| 23:42.03 | *** join/#zaurus gtr (~gtr@dsl-213-023-036-196.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:42.09 | *** join/#zaurus raster (~raster@203.206.217.82) |
| 23:42.35 | kergoth | phoen][x: not really |
| 23:42.41 | kergoth | phoen][x: devfsd does, but you can operate without it |
| 23:43.06 | phoen][x | gentoo uses devfs and i kinda got used to it, but i would never use it on a pda device |
| 23:43.11 | phoen][x | exactly |
| 23:43.24 | kergoth | familiar for example creates the symlinks manually on boot |
| 23:43.32 | kergoth | OZ's scripts are devfs capable, just the kernel isnt built with it |
| 23:43.40 | kergoth | schurig's ramses device runs oZ using devfs |
| 23:44.09 | phoen][x | shurigs ramses device? |
| 23:44.43 | kergoth | schurig = a guy, holger schurig |
| 23:44.48 | kergoth | ramses = industrial pda device |
| 23:45.03 | kergoth | OZ runs on a number of devices atm |
| 23:45.57 | phoen][x | mm, sounds interesting |
| 23:46.21 | kergoth | that industrial device can be dropped from feed onto a cement floor and still be fine.. |
| 23:46.24 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:46.29 | kergoth | hey raster |
| 23:46.40 | phoen][x | definitely the right thing for me - same hardware inside? |
| 23:47.59 | ccamp | kergoth are you an OZ dev? |
| 23:48.05 | phoen][x | ccamp: you bet |
| 23:48.23 | phoen][x | kergoth is the great OZ master :) |
| 23:48.32 | kergoth | :P |
| 23:48.47 | ccamp | kergoth how hard would it be to cross compile a decent mail app with ssl imap? |
| 23:49.05 | kergoth | ccamp: like what? |
| 23:49.10 | kergoth | mutt, sure |
| 23:49.12 | phoen][x | evolution, hehe :) |
| 23:49.12 | ccamp | not quite sure |
| 23:49.17 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:49.18 | ccamp | id settle for pine |
| 23:49.21 | ccamp | eww |
| 23:49.28 | phoen][x | pine shouldnt be a problem |
| 23:49.28 | kergoth | mutt is avail |
| 23:49.35 | kergoth | pine could be done |
| 23:49.45 | ccamp | cool |
| 23:50.23 | phoen][x | kergoth: besides, do you plan to switch to qtopia/xfree in some later version? |
| 23:50.30 | kergoth | ? |
| 23:50.36 | kergoth | qtopia, hell no, its crap |
| 23:50.40 | kergoth | could add packages for it though (1.6) |
| 23:50.44 | phoen][x | opie even |
| 23:50.44 | kergoth | we already support X. |
| 23:50.49 | kergoth | tinyx packages are available |
| 23:50.51 | phoen][x | not qtopia, sorry |
| 23:50.56 | kergoth | you mea opie _on_ X11? |
| 23:51.00 | phoen][x | yessir |
| 23:51.06 | kergoth | a feed will be available |
| 23:51.08 | _Psycho | hehe conics.net refuse CC by paypal, i had to go to the bank, was so long to transfert cdn to yen ;) |
| 23:51.12 | kergoth | wehether to use them in the images is something else entirely |
| 23:51.17 | Harlekin | kergoth: it still need a lot of work |
| 23:51.25 | kergoth | Harlekin: yeah, i know :) |
| 23:51.45 | phoen][x | kergoth: it should make porting stuff much easier - i dont have an idea about performance-loss though |
| 23:52.06 | kergoth | most apps that run on X werent designed for a small screen anyway |
| 23:52.26 | phoen][x | indeed, but stuff like snes9x would work :) |
| 23:52.27 | kergoth | opie on X will be useful particularly for enterprise, or folks needing to run remote X apps |
| 23:52.31 | Zarchon | Has anyone taken advantage of the PC Connection offer? |
| 23:52.32 | *** join/#zaurus George- (~Test@m116-mp1.cvx2-b.bre.dial.ntli.net) |
| 23:52.33 | George- | Heya |
| 23:52.37 | phoen][x | lo George- |
| 23:52.40 | George- | heya |
| 23:52.46 | Harlekin | kergoth: still not sure enterprises want that |
| 23:53.13 | kergoth | Harlekin: some will.. i could see industrial applications for example that are too large to run directly |
| 23:53.15 | George- | ljp: Got teambuilder installed... now to test it... see how long it takes to compile KDE on a 450MHz machine using teambuilder and a 2GHz machine ;) |
| 23:53.22 | raster | kergoth: mornin! |
| 23:53.37 | ccamp | does anyone know if i can use a usb -> usb adapter from teh zaurus to my cell phone, and spawn ppp on /dev/ttyUSB to dial out through the cell phone? |
| 23:53.40 | Harlekin | kergoth: that normally happens via a transport layer |
| 23:53.44 | phoen][x | teambuilder? is that something like mosix? |
| 23:53.50 | Harlekin | kergoth: client server concept |
| 23:53.57 | kergoth | Harlekin: yep, good point |
| 23:54.09 | kergoth | Harlekin: but if they dont want to spend $$ on an opie port.. |
| 23:54.14 | Harlekin | kergoth: especially X forward is not even encrypted |
| 23:54.14 | kergoth | Harlekin: ;) |
| 23:54.15 | Zarchon | ccamp: from what I gather, no, since zaurus is usb slave. |
| 23:54.26 | kergoth | Harlekin: running over an ssh tunnel would be a breeze |
| 23:54.29 | kergoth | Harlekin: but i get the point |
| 23:54.53 | Harlekin | kergoth: i think the future will be a ssl guarded connection to an xml gui server |
| 23:54.56 | ccamp | crappy |
| 23:55.04 | kergoth | todays task is play with python extensively |
| 23:55.05 | kergoth | fun stuff |
| 23:55.27 | phoen][x | kergoth: pythons slicing ability is incredible |
| 23:55.29 | kergoth | Harlekin: yeah. thinking of adding network transparency to qt/e? ;) |
| 23:55.32 | Harlekin | servers gui description in xml, gets actions back in xml |
| 23:55.49 | kergoth | phoen][x: oh yes, i was drooling over that.. the ability to set a slice to null and shit is spiffyyy |
| 23:55.51 | Harlekin | and then all kinds of guis can interprete it |
| 23:55.56 | Harlekin | worst case a webbrowser |
| 23:55.57 | Harlekin | .) |
| 23:56.22 | phoen][x | kergoth: values <0 are funny :) like foo[:-1] |
| 23:58.59 | ccamp | whats all the rage with python when there are langs like perl out there? |
| 23:59.09 | ccamp | the "overhead"? |
| 23:59.29 | kergoth | ccamp: 1) object orientation that doesnt suck |
| 23:59.41 | kergoth | ccamp: 2) the locked down syntax makes it readable |
| 23:59.49 | kergoth | from what i've gathered to date |