| 00:00:39 | dkl | Anyone have the Hancom suite installed? |
| 00:01:17 | Neo|Work | jperlow-sharp: Hehe. that's usually true |
| 00:01:24 | Mallory | I installed the desktop version and was not very impressed. I didn't think the embedded one was available yet (it will be on the 5500 ROMs though from what I understand). |
| 00:03:03 | dkl | Mallory: the rom they installed on my unit at LWE expo had it installed (alpha version) and I thought I was able to copy all I needed off before upgrading to the newest rom but I missed a couple files :( |
| 00:03:51 | Mallory | Hmm, it wasn't on the ROMs released last night. |
| 00:04:09 | Mallory | (which I thought were the same ones they were putting on at LWCE) |
| 00:04:53 | dkl | Mallory: guess it was special rom for show since all of the units on display had the Hancom suite on them. |
| 00:06:03 | kergoth | im goin home |
| 00:06:10 | dkl | also jus copying back my addressbook.xml and datebook.xml files after update did not bring back my data |
| 00:10:10 | Mallory | It would be nice if they would make the Hancom stuff available, I'd like to at least play with it on the Z. :) |
| 00:10:34 | roge99 | dkl: you need to uncheck fast load and then shut down the apps then you can copy your old data back |
| 00:13:38 | ljp | dkl: that Hancom stuff was on the test rom built 1/08. |
| 00:14:17 | ljp | supposedly there were 'problems' with them |
| 00:14:38 | ljp | you might be able to get them from handcom.com |
| 00:14:46 | ljp | err hancom.com |
| 00:16:18 | dkl | roge99: thanks |
| 00:17:32 | dkl | ljp: There doenst seem to be a place to download the beta version of the mobile office so I thought I would copy off the Hancom stuff and put it back before wiping out the LWE rom but unfortunately missed one library |
| 00:17:59 | ljp | ahh.. you had 1/08, then? |
| 00:18:09 | dkl | yeah |
| 00:18:10 | ljp | that's what I did, also.. heheheh |
| 00:18:30 | dkl | ljp: cool. Do you still have a local copy of the libhstorage.so libs? |
| 00:19:28 | ljp | hmm... I don't think I do... |
| 00:19:37 | ljp | but I still have 1/08 rom |
| 00:19:51 | dkl | can the rom be uncompressed? |
| 00:20:13 | ljp | probably.. |
| 00:20:36 | dkl | ljp: could you mail that rom to me? |
| 00:21:05 | ljp | you don't have it? |
| 00:22:00 | dkl | ljp: they put it on the unit for me at LWE. I didnt get my own copy. |
| 00:22:20 | ljp | ahhh.. |
| 00:23:06 | treke | is hancom planning on selling it or is it going to be a zaurus bundle? |
| 00:23:53 | dkl | treke: it is probably going to sell it separately but they havent posted a price or availability date on their web site. I should have asked them personally when I was at LWE. |
| 00:24:20 | ljp | email shawn@hancom.com |
| 00:24:45 | dkl | ah, cool |
| 00:24:51 | treke | the excel compatibility might be handy |
| 00:25:36 | MSpin | I was really impressed with the spreadsheet app |
| 00:26:52 | treke | anyone tried using ms files in it? |
| 00:27:00 | dkl | treke: I suppose one would need to first save the Excel in hancom format on their workstation and then they could view it on the Zaurus. |
| 00:27:31 | treke | dkl : It seems to indicate it reads them nativly |
| 00:27:59 | Mallory | I wish there was a way to zap all the Java crap off my Z :) |
| 00:28:01 | Mallory | Free up some space |
| 00:30:31 | Neo|Work | any1 interested in testing the beta of my game on the Z? :) |
| 00:31:15 | Mallory | What kind of game? :) |
| 00:31:25 | treke | highly recommends it |
| 00:31:39 | Neo|Work | puzzle |
| 00:31:55 | treke | its very similar to crack |
| 00:32:39 | Mallory | Sure, point me to a URL and I'll put it on next time I get out my Socket. |
| 00:33:38 | sean | i'll check it out.. |
| 00:33:54 | Neo|Work | http://david.hedbor.org/tmp/z.html |
| 00:34:13 | Neo|Work | Note, don't spread that URL all around the world... :P |
| 00:34:25 | Mallory | heh, I've always wanted ryan.maple.com but I don't think the Maple Consulting people would like that :) |
| 00:34:27 | Mallory | no prob |
| 00:34:28 | Neo|Work | and also note that I myself have not played it on the Z. :P |
| 00:34:33 | sean | haha |
| 00:34:41 | BZFlag | Neo|Work: screen shots? |
| 00:35:14 | Neo|Work | http://david.hedbor.org/tmp/snapshot0[1-6].png |
| 00:35:46 | BZFlag | is looking for some commercial games for a Z like platform. If you are interested email me Tim@Rikers.org |
| 00:37:02 | BZFlag | Neo|Work: hmm.. I'll try it out sometime. |
| 00:37:03 | woot | hello everyone |
| 00:37:30 | woot | umm......the motd......does that mean the new ROM is out? |
| 00:37:40 | roge99 | yep |
| 00:37:48 | woot | shit.....i just upgraded an hour ago |
| 00:38:33 | woot | ok.....would updating (using CF of course) wipe out the existing files on the CF card? I have a lot on my only one that I dont want lost |
| 00:39:24 | kyoorius | does anyone here have a clue how i might cross compile php on my x86 to produce ARM source? |
| 00:39:36 | treke | compile php? |
| 00:39:40 | roge99 | ??? |
| 00:40:00 | kyoorius | im trying to build an executable of php to run on the Z |
| 00:40:05 | Neo|Work | might be a minor hassle to compile php for arm. :P |
| 00:40:15 | Neo|Work | but basically, make it use the right devtools |
| 00:40:17 | treke | oh... that makes far sense |
| 00:40:24 | kyoorius | php can be compiled to work as an apache module, but can also be a stand alone. |
| 00:40:25 | treke | far more |
| 00:40:39 | treke | kyoorius : someone already has I think |
| 00:40:51 | kyoorius | ya? |
| 00:40:54 | treke | yeah |
| 00:41:23 | kyoorius | know where i might be able to find it? |
| 00:41:26 | Night_Vis | anyone get the Z with new ROM connected to XP |
| 00:41:40 | woot | new ROM, as in 1.1 or 1.02? |
| 00:41:41 | kyoorius | oh, btw, my config line for php looks like this: |
| 00:41:42 | kyoorius | ./configure --target=arm-linux --includedir=/opt/Qtopia/sharp/include --libdir=/opt/Qtopia/sharp/lib --host=i586-pc-linux-gnu |
| 00:41:56 | Night_Vis | yeah the 1.11 |
| 00:42:05 | woot | oh |
| 00:42:10 | woot | dling 1.11 now |
| 00:42:19 | kyoorius | which works ok, but i think when i do a make, it's still using gcc and not the arm-linux-gcc |
| 00:42:23 | Night_Vis | ok |
| 00:42:26 | woot | but ill remember ur name.....b/c I want to sync with XP as well |
| 00:42:29 | treke | kyoorius : /home/guest/mallum@10.am/thttpd |
| 00:42:38 | treke | kyoorius : On compaqs skiffcluster |
| 00:42:40 | Night_Vis | heh |
| 00:42:41 | woot | if I have any trouble or luck ill talk to ya |
| 00:42:49 | Night_Vis | ok |
| 00:43:04 | woot | but.....will upgrading via flash (to the new rom) wipe out the existing files on the CF? |
| 00:43:13 | Night_Vis | no |
| 00:43:16 | woot | via compactflash i mean |
| 00:43:17 | treke | http://www.handhelds.org/projects/skiffcluster.html |
| 00:43:20 | woot | whew, good |
| 00:43:50 | Neo|Work | CC=arm-linux-gcc CXX=arm-linux-g++ ./configure ... |
| 00:44:09 | woot | also.....i am having stability problems when FTPing files (one by one) to the compact flash, every once and a while the zaurus will stop responding |
| 00:44:21 | woot | how do I 1) recover, 2) fix it? |
| 00:44:30 | Neo|Work | aand the includedir /libdir ones shouldn't be needed. All the arm includes/libs (non-qt/qpe) are in /usr/local/arm/... |
| 00:45:07 | woot | usually i have to take out the CF, flip the battery lock on the back 2, reboot, turn off, then put cf in, and turn on |
| 00:45:11 | woot | is there a better way? |
| 00:45:22 | kyoorius | i've got some weired issues with the arm compiler from the rpm. |
| 00:45:24 | Night_Vis | nope |
| 00:45:29 | woot | aight |
| 00:45:30 | Neo|Work | kyoorius: like? |
| 00:45:50 | woot | im surprised linux is crashing on me so much.....i guess the support for CF is new and buggy |
| 00:46:04 | kyoorius | not sure yet, but stuff wasnt compiling with the arm-linux-gcc under /opt/Qtopia |
| 00:46:14 | kyoorius | I had installed the Embeddixx one before, and that one works. |
| 00:46:25 | kyoorius | some of the stuff might be interfering. |
| 00:46:43 | kyoorius | actually ... I think they are the same arm-linux-gcc.. |
| 00:46:45 | kyoorius | hrmm. |
| 00:48:36 | woot | also, could someone please link me to a page explaining the differences between 1.02 and 1.11? |
| 00:48:51 | roge99 | http://more.sbc.co.jp/slj/qa/test/check/download.asp |
| 00:49:00 | woot | thx |
| 00:49:03 | roge99 | np |
| 00:51:15 | woot | wow.....nice upgrades |
| 00:51:22 | woot | plus upgraded sync software |
| 00:51:24 | woot | very nice |
| 00:51:26 | CosmicPenguin | is away: sqlite rule! |
| 00:51:36 | woot | i hope the sync software is more stable |
| 00:51:43 | Neo|Work | so does anyone have gcc etc on their Z? :P |
| 00:51:56 | Neo|Work | (crosscompiling is for wusses. :-) |
| 00:55:36 | kyoorius | checking for int8... configure: error: can not run test program while cross compiling |
| 00:55:39 | kyoorius | bleh. |
| 00:57:36 | kyoorius | man, i feel like i have no idea wtf im doing .. :( |
| 01:00:35 | Neo|Work | well, its configure script isn't setup for cross-compilation. common issue |
| 01:00:54 | Neo|Work | it lacks defaults, basically |
| 01:01:19 | woot | not much talking goin on (at least, not what im used to) |
| 01:01:57 | sean | is busy playing with his Z |
| 01:02:15 | woot | hehe.....guess all of us are |
| 01:02:20 | woot | or at least programming for it |
| 01:03:48 | Neo|Work | repeat URL: http://david.hedbor.org/tmp/z.html |
| 01:05:58 | BZFlag | lags, but returns |
| 01:06:40 | BZFlag | Neo|Work: I have an ipaq with gcc on it, full debian-arm on a udrive. should work on the Z but I've never tried it. |
| 01:06:59 | woot | bzf....u have gcc ON ur ipaq? |
| 01:07:25 | BZFlag | woot: yes. and automake/autoconf/binutils/imake/X/ etc |
| 01:07:26 | woot | and develop using the ipaq? |
| 01:07:48 | woot | now that is awesome |
| 01:07:48 | BZFlag | I have, yes. ssh over usb-net and build. |
| 01:08:28 | BZFlag | I've also done nfs-root from an ipaq and a yopy and native builds over nfs. that's slower though. |
| 01:08:39 | woot | Yopy? |
| 01:08:41 | BZFlag | with the udrive I can add a 100M of swap. ;-) |
| 01:08:45 | woot | is that any good? |
| 01:08:49 | woot | ive read about them |
| 01:08:54 | woot | and was about to buy one |
| 01:08:59 | BZFlag | http://yopy.org/ oh, no... http://www.gmate.com/ |
| 01:09:05 | woot | but went for the zaurus instead (surprise)? |
| 01:09:14 | woot | BZf....i know the site |
| 01:09:21 | woot | what do YOU think about it? |
| 01:10:35 | BZFlag | The devices are a bit flakey, I've busted buttons on them. they don't test very well, I've seen many DOA units and units that died in the field. They don't get "open source", and they are way out of date on software revisions. |
| 01:10:55 | BZFlag | course, I updated a binch of stuff, converted to jffs2 and was happy doing demos. ;-) |
| 01:10:57 | Neo|Work | BZFlag: cool |
| 01:10:57 | woot | hehe |
| 01:11:08 | BZFlag | s/binch/bunch/ |
| 01:11:12 | woot | pretty much what I thought |
| 01:11:18 | woot | i read bad reviews |
| 01:11:20 | file | BZFlag: Helio? |
| 01:11:35 | woot | which further reinforced me getting the zaurus isntead |
| 01:11:41 | BZFlag | I have 3 helio's in a drawer here. never even powered them on. |
| 01:11:48 | file | can I have one? |
| 01:11:51 | file | :) |
| 01:11:56 | BZFlag | heh. talk to Lineo. ;-) |
| 01:12:10 | ][N-Flux | I was leaning twoard the yopy myself, but they fell way behind |
| 01:12:14 | file | but your funner to talk to |
| 01:12:16 | Neo|Work | what is a helio? |
| 01:12:21 | scanline | is away: food(sorta?) .. and i'm not messing up my /away this time |
| 01:12:25 | BZFlag | I also have quite a few agendas. They are cool for the price, but the Z is more fun for a bit more. |
| 01:12:41 | file | Neo|Work: 75MHz MIPS, 2mb flash, 8mb dram |
| 01:12:42 | BZFlag | http://vhl-tools.sourceforge.net/ |
| 01:13:08 | file | vhl-tools is dead |
| 01:13:14 | file | http://picolinux.sourceforge.net/ is more up to date |
| 01:13:18 | treke | who would want a black and white pda :) |
| 01:13:30 | file | treke: a cheap person |
| 01:13:36 | file | BZFlag: I looked at the Agenda... not too bad |
| 01:13:37 | woot | hehe |
| 01:13:48 | ][N-Flux | I had a B&W ipaq |
| 01:14:07 | file | has a B&W 386 25MHz laptop with 4MB ram |
| 01:14:11 | file | it gets roughly 7 BogoMIPS |
| 01:14:12 | roge99 | i wasnt real impressed w/ my agenda |
| 01:14:24 | BZFlag | file: cool. thanx. |
| 01:14:44 | file | roge99: life is full of disappointments |
| 01:14:46 | woot | is the VR3 another name for the agenda, or is it completely different? |
| 01:14:54 | file | VR3 is the Agenda |
| 01:15:03 | woot | ok, thought so |
| 01:15:06 | BZFlag | VR3 is the current agenda. |
| 01:15:25 | BZFlag | they planned another, but it's vapor hardware as far as I know. |
| 01:15:25 | woot | hehe....thanx BZF |
| 01:15:30 | ][N-Flux | Agenda didn't do it for me |
| 01:15:58 | file | I'm happy with my Nino for now, and soon a Helio |
| 01:16:17 | BZFlag | nope. my previous preference was the ipaq. I think I have 4 of those around. but the Z with a keyboard is even cooler. ;-) |
| 01:16:31 | file | is taking his Nino, it's click-on modem and a calling card to Quebec City in May... gonna IRC/ICQ/Browse from his hotel room |
| 01:16:48 | ][N-Flux | I had a nin that was kinda cool at the time |
| 01:16:49 | woot | hehe |
| 01:16:53 | ][N-Flux | nino even |
| 01:17:04 | file | I hope I don't overload the hotel's phone system |
| 01:17:14 | file | and I hope they don't charge me to use my calling card |
| 01:17:25 | file | ][N-Flux: considering I got it free, it was a great deal |
| 01:18:01 | ][N-Flux | free is always good |
| 01:18:07 | ][N-Flux | I have a clie I need to get rid of |
| 01:18:17 | file | how much? |
| 01:18:34 | BZFlag | you mean clio? |
| 01:18:37 | ][N-Flux | ped-s320 |
| 01:18:49 | ][N-Flux | peg-s320 even |
| 01:18:56 | ][N-Flux | sony palm thing |
| 01:19:23 | BZFlag | ahh. another palm thing. |
| 01:19:30 | BZFlag | palm never did it for me. ;-) |
| 01:19:38 | file | don't even start talking about Palm or PalmOS. |
| 01:19:52 | woot | hehe |
| 01:20:25 | woot | hm, im thinking of the possibilities with wireless (internet and Lan)....but dont know which would be the most cost effective |
| 01:20:47 | sean | neo|work, your game rox |
| 01:20:49 | ][N-Flux | wireless is nto cheap |
| 01:20:55 | ][N-Flux | not even |
| 01:20:58 | sean | wireless lan is cheap enough |
| 01:20:59 | Neo|Work | sean: hey, thanks. :) |
| 01:21:05 | ][N-Flux | is dyslexic when he has the flu |
| 01:21:06 | woot | yeah |
| 01:21:14 | ][N-Flux | what game??? |
| 01:21:20 | woot | but relatively to other options |
| 01:21:50 | woot | for wireless internet, i would need a wireless ISP, right? |
| 01:21:50 | sean | i paid uh $115 including shipping for my wirelss cf card |
| 01:21:59 | Neo|Work | ][N-Flux: http://david.hedbor.org/tmp/z.html |
| 01:22:26 | file | spits on PalmOS |
| 01:22:35 | ][N-Flux | I will have a look |
| 01:23:06 | sean | wants to see some networked games |
| 01:23:20 | file | sean: you have to look in order to see |
| 01:23:21 | Mallory | About to install it and try it over a smoke |
| 01:24:27 | woot | also, what about using my cell phone to dial into my regular, non-wireless ISP, and using IR between the cell and my Z - would that work? |
| 01:24:41 | Neo|Work | check http://david.hedbor.org/tmp/screenshots.html too. :-P |
| 01:25:00 | sean | i want a cellphone w/ bluetooth, and a bluetooth card |
| 01:25:09 | woot | whats eligo? |
| 01:25:20 | Mallory | Okay, quick hint, how the hell do you play this? :) |
| 01:25:29 | treke | woot : a quite funky game |
| 01:25:35 | Neo|Work | Mallory: menu->help->manual |
| 01:25:35 | woot | hehe |
| 01:25:36 | Mallory | w00t, help menu |
| 01:25:41 | sean | mallory, line things up in 5s |
| 01:25:43 | woot | yeah, looking at screenshots now |
| 01:26:01 | Neo|Work | adds to the TODO: pop up a "For instructions on how to play, see the menu" at the first run |
| 01:26:21 | peanut | waves |
| 01:27:11 | peanut | any word on the lineo driver? |
| 01:27:24 | peanut | jason? |
| 01:28:03 | file | read/write error on /dev/jason. |
| 01:29:40 | ][N-Flux | Neo|Work: Looking good so far |
| 01:30:06 | Neo|Work | ][N-Flux: :-) not too shabby for not having a device to try it on myself. :-P |
| 01:30:33 | ][N-Flux | heh, you need one man |
| 01:31:03 | Neo|Work | Indeed. :-P |
| 01:31:17 | Neo|Work | thus the game "port" (wishes hard) |
| 01:32:00 | scanline | is back (gone 00:19:39) |
| 01:35:25 | scribe | Hey guys, finally got my app submitted to trolltech. They took it via email, as I couldn't get it to submit via the website. |
| 01:35:37 | file[Bed] | I hope my bed doesn't collapse |
| 01:35:44 | scribe | Wanna see a screen shot? |
| 01:35:51 | scribe | it's my first real Qt app |
| 01:35:55 | treke | sure |
| 01:35:56 | ][N-Flux | shuuure |
| 01:36:28 | Mallory | Neo: Fun gam! |
| 01:36:35 | scribe | http://www.crosswire.org/images/qpsword0001.jpg |
| 01:36:36 | Mallory | game |
| 01:36:45 | scribe | what all did everyone else submit?! |
| 01:37:00 | treke | scribe : vert cool |
| 01:37:01 | scribe | I want to make an ipk, but don't know how yet. |
| 01:37:19 | treke | scribe : what kind of license? |
| 01:37:41 | scribe | gpl |
| 01:37:46 | treke | even cooler :) |
| 01:37:49 | scribe | :) |
| 01:37:54 | ][N-Flux | gpl works |
| 01:38:07 | Neo|Work | Mallory: :-) Any comments are welcome. Note that the Ogile* modes are (IMHO) way too easy once you figure out the good tactics (at least the tournament mode). |
| 01:38:11 | ljp | scribe: http://more.sbc.co.jp/slj/doc/pdf/pjava_prog-gd.pdf |
| 01:38:18 | ljp | and http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/iPKG |
| 01:38:19 | Neo|Work | scribe: have a full-size shot? :P |
| 01:38:22 | ][N-Flux | we need emulators |
| 01:38:31 | Mallory | Yeah, I'll play around with it and let you know how I like it. |
| 01:38:35 | Mallory | I just gave it a quick testrun |
| 01:39:02 | Neo|Work | I'm excited to get the themes stuff working so easily. allows for third party themes relatively easily |
| 01:39:03 | peanut | the sdk has an emulator |
| 01:39:37 | Neo|Work | peanut: no. it has a virtual framebuffer and x86 qpe. emulator == works like the device, running it's rom |
| 01:39:46 | scribe | ljp: you submitted personal java as your app? |
| 01:39:47 | Neo|Work | like POSE (ie x-copilot++) |
| 01:40:01 | peanut | oh.. right.. |
| 01:40:17 | peanut | you want a strongarm emulator |
| 01:40:34 | Neo|Work | now that said, the dev environment is cool. Had to wrestle some to get the x-compile to work but once done it obviously runs |
| 01:40:37 | Neo|Work | peanut: indeed |
| 01:41:04 | treke | yeah the virtual framebuffer can be a bit misleading on performance |
| 01:41:26 | peanut | a quick google search shows several arm emulators |
| 01:41:27 | Neo|Work | performance testing almost always has to be done on the device itself though |
| 01:41:55 | treke | Neo|Work : true, but it would be nice to have a closer estimation :) |
| 01:41:55 | peanut | ouch.. not good though.. |
| 01:41:58 | file[Bed] | rubs his eyes |
| 01:42:26 | Neo|Work | treke: run it on a old PC with similar speeds. I mean, w/o a virtual framebuffer. :-)) |
| 01:42:29 | scribe | Neo|Work: just uploaded a full size image |
| 01:42:32 | scribe | http://www.crosswire.org/images/qpsword_full.jpg |
| 01:43:09 | file[Bed] | hrm |
| 01:43:52 | Neo|Work | Sword reader? what is sword? Looks nice anyway. :P |
| 01:44:05 | scribe | http://www.crosswire.org/sword |
| 01:44:33 | Neo|Work | aha. Thought it looked like the Bible |
| 01:45:23 | scribe | :) We just finished General Book Support, also, so am hoping to get some classics available |
| 01:46:05 | scribe | ok, now I am new to Qt, but I had a heck of a time with getting some things to work correctly. |
| 01:46:19 | scribe | like tap-n-hold context menus |
| 01:46:32 | Neo|Work | Really? I found it relatively easy. |
| 01:46:39 | Neo|Work | what problems did you have? |
| 01:46:42 | Neo|Work | with that I mean |
| 01:46:57 | scribe | Well, QTextView doesn't emit any mouse signals |
| 01:47:06 | scribe | I looked at the code |
| 01:47:06 | Neo|Work | hmm |
| 01:47:19 | scribe | and the methods are NOT virtual, so I could not override them! |
| 01:47:26 | file[Bed] | screams as his toe hurts |
| 01:47:34 | Neo|Work | I use QTextBrowser |
| 01:47:47 | scribe | Neo|Work: should be same problem |
| 01:47:51 | scribe | how did you get mouse events? |
| 01:48:00 | Neo|Work | I don't actually do any of my own mouse events |
| 01:48:12 | scribe | well, how did you popup context menus? |
| 01:48:15 | Neo|Work | I have some navigational buttons but otherwise let it handle its own events |
| 01:48:42 | Neo|Work | I just have a popup menu triggered by a QPushButton |
| 01:48:50 | scribe | I had to COPY the source for QTextView and create a new control! |
| 01:48:52 | scribe | oh. |
| 01:49:00 | file[Bed] | holy heck I almost just fainted |
| 01:49:06 | scanline | is away: class |
| 01:49:08 | Neo|Work | that kinda blows. bug report? :) |
| 01:49:10 | scribe | yeah, if you need to do a tap-n-hold thing, I think you'd have troubles |
| 01:49:23 | scribe | unless I just don't understand things (which is entirely possible). |
| 01:50:18 | Neo|Work | what is the event for press'n'hold? |
| 01:50:28 | scribe | And tap-n-hold doesn't produce a right-click like you'd expect |
| 01:50:29 | scribe | :) |
| 01:50:35 | scribe | there isn't one! |
| 01:50:45 | scribe | I looked to see how filebrowser was doing it. |
| 01:50:52 | murph | Is there any info anywhere on the release of the SL-5500 that's more specific than "early 2002"? |
| 01:50:56 | file[Bed] | dances |
| 01:50:59 | scribe | they have a timer! and do it all manually! |
| 01:51:00 | Neo|Work | Actually, I know how you can do it... |
| 01:51:07 | Neo|Work | right, was just about to suggest that |
| 01:51:22 | Neo|Work | however, shouldn't need to copy the class. just create a subclass |
| 01:51:29 | treke | hmmm, a right click seems like it would make sense |
| 01:51:34 | treke | would ease porting |
| 01:51:38 | Neo|Work | treke: yah. |
| 01:51:53 | Neo|Work | should be suggested perhaps? :P but then again, it might not always be a desirable thing to have either |
| 01:52:06 | treke | I kinda like the way win ce did it |
| 01:52:09 | scribe | Neo|Work: tried a subclass |
| 01:52:33 | scribe | but QTextView is implementing mouseClickEvent and is NOT declaring it as virtual! |
| 01:53:01 | Neo|Work | void QTextBrowser::viewportMousePressEvent ( QMouseEvent * e ) |
| 01:53:02 | Neo|Work | ...? |
| 01:53:10 | Neo|Work | and corresponding release/move events |
| 01:53:18 | scribe | sure, but it's not virtual either, is it?! |
| 01:53:19 | Neo|Work | Oh, that's in QTextBrowser |
| 01:53:29 | Neo|Work | they are |
| 01:53:52 | Neo|Work | all event callbacks _should_ be virtual |
| 01:54:07 | scribe | protected: |
| 01:54:07 | scribe | void viewportMousePressEvent( QMouseEvent* ); |
| 01:54:09 | Neo|Work | but I'm just reading the docs, not the source and I'm no expert |
| 01:54:17 | scribe | not in my /opt/Qtopia/include directory, it's not. |
| 01:54:40 | scribe | Neo|Work: yeah, you'd think they would all be. |
| 01:54:50 | Neo|Work | scribe: doh. Indeed. Documentation != reality |
| 01:55:26 | scribe | But all in all Qt isn't so bad |
| 01:55:39 | Neo|Work | perhaps you can try virtual void contentsMousePressEvent( QMouseEvent* ); |
| 01:55:39 | Neo|Work | virtual void contentsMouseReleaseEvent( QMouseEvent* ); |
| 01:55:54 | Neo|Work | they are defined in qscrollview.h |
| 01:56:08 | Neo|Work | not quite sure what they are for tho. :-)) |
| 01:56:33 | scribe | right, but QTextView extends that, implements that method and, itself, doesn't declare it's reimplementation virtual |
| 01:56:58 | scribe | (QTextBrowser extends QTextView) |
| 01:56:59 | Neo|Work | no, not the contects* methods, only the viewport* ones |
| 01:57:43 | scribe | QTextBrower : QTextView : QScrollView |
| 01:57:46 | Neo|Work | right |
| 01:58:00 | Neo|Work | but if you look, contentsMouse*Event are not redefined in the subclasses |
| 01:58:14 | scribe | QTextView redefines them, I thought |
| 01:58:29 | scribe | looking |
| 01:58:45 | Neo|Work | not that I can see |
| 01:59:07 | Neo|Work | the zaurus doesn't have a "Wheel" does it? (i.e like the Sony Palms has?) |
| 02:00:24 | scribe | Neo|Work: I looks like you may be correct! |
| 02:00:28 | scribe | wooo hooooo |
| 02:00:46 | Neo|Work | :) |
| 02:01:01 | scribe | I can reduce the size of my app if that is the case! |
| 02:01:08 | scribe | it's 700K now |
| 02:01:11 | Neo|Work | * |
| 02:01:11 | Neo|Work | void contentsToViewport ( int x, int y, int & vx, int & vy ) |
| 02:01:11 | Neo|Work | * |
| 02:01:11 | Neo|Work | void viewportToContents ( int vx, int vy, int & x, int & y ) |
| 02:01:11 | Neo|Work | * |
| 02:01:12 | Neo|Work | QPoint contentsToViewport ( const QPoint & ) |
| 02:01:14 | Neo|Work | * |
| 02:01:16 | Neo|Work | QPoint viewportToContents ( const QPoint & ) |
| 02:01:21 | Neo|Work | those might be helpful too I suppose. |
| 02:01:33 | Neo|Work | 700k? stripped w/o debug? |
| 02:01:38 | scribe | yep |
| 02:01:56 | Neo|Work | wow. :-) |
| 02:01:57 | scribe | I'm probably gonna remove the compression drivers also to read compressed books |
| 02:02:06 | scribe | jffs2 give good compression on its owhn |
| 02:02:14 | Neo|Work | so I've heard |
| 02:02:33 | Neo|Work | you have a Z btw? |
| 02:02:44 | scribe | nope |
| 02:02:52 | scribe | I have an ipaq |
| 02:02:59 | scribe | will the binaries work between the 2? |
| 02:03:56 | scribe | ljp: thanks for the ipk info! looking now. |
| 02:04:06 | treke | scribe : they will |
| 02:04:29 | Neo|Work | treke ran Eligo on an ipaq I believe |
| 02:04:47 | scribe | cool. trying to get things packaged... |
| 02:04:59 | peanut | yawns.. |
| 02:05:09 | peanut | misses being able to sync with his linux laptop and desktop |
| 02:05:15 | scribe | any of you know how to disable select scrolling? |
| 02:05:24 | peanut | but i like the built in ir beaming |
| 02:05:38 | scribe | i.e. when I click and drag in a window, it scrolls. |
| 02:05:45 | Neo|Work | has no clue. :) |
| 02:06:25 | Neo|Work | virtual void setContentsPos ( int x, int y ) <-- reimplemnt that perhaps? |
| 02:07:34 | Neo|Work | chek QScrollView::setDragAutoScroll too |
| 02:08:31 | Neo|Work | anyhow, time to go home |
| 02:08:42 | Neo|Work | didn't come early to work just to stay late anyway |
| 02:09:17 | treke | now what kind of attitude is that? |
| 02:09:43 | Neo|Work | a sane one? :-)) |
| 02:10:40 | Neo|Work | is away: gone. |
| 02:18:59 | scribe | Neo|Work: I can't seem to get it to work. |
| 02:19:12 | scribe | no matching function for call to `QTextBrowser::setDragAutoScroll (bool)' |
| 02:19:20 | scribe | but it is in the header |
| 02:19:51 | scribe | it's in a #ifndef QT_NO_DRAGANDDROP |
| 02:20:13 | scribe | I wonder if QT_NO_DRAGANDDROP is defined??? |
| 02:20:18 | treke | I think it is |
| 02:20:20 | treke | lemme look |
| 02:20:55 | treke | yup. its defined |
| 02:21:25 | scribe | bummer |
| 02:23:52 | scribe | hmmm. |
| 02:23:57 | Aelfweld | ok so my z will not flash the new images(right now oz 2.6 is isntalled) the leds light for a second then go out. I have tired both images and two flash cards. any ideas? |
| 02:23:59 | scribe | ok, back to ipk... |
| 02:27:35 | altered | hmm... too bad the voice recorder doesn't encode to MP3s... |
| 02:27:50 | treke | wav? |
| 02:28:43 | altered | 16khz 16bit 256kbps... probably wav. |
| 02:28:55 | altered | (oh, and that's mono) |
| 02:29:07 | altered | at least it works nicely with my headset :) |
| 02:29:25 | peanut | what headset are you using? |
| 02:29:34 | treke | how large are the files? |
| 02:29:38 | altered | peanut: some cheapo headset I got a long time ago... |
| 02:30:14 | peanut | ahh.. |
| 02:31:05 | altered | peanut: http://www.mpja.com/product.asp?product=8290+MK |
| 02:31:12 | altered | $2.49 |
| 02:31:29 | altered | err... $2.95 if you want less than 5 of them :) |
| 02:31:49 | scribe | is /root the working dir for apps on the zaurus? |
| 02:32:09 | ljp | altered: too bad Fraunhofer charges for licensing it |
| 02:32:25 | treke | scribe : probably safer to assume $home |
| 02:32:25 | ekkis | I need to edit my /etc/hosts file on the Z but vi doesn't come with it and I can't use the notepad-like editor it does come with to do it because it doesn't allow me to save... can anyone suggest how this might be accomplished? |
| 02:32:25 | peanut | oh.. i could use my agenda mic/speaker combo |
| 02:32:42 | peanut | echo? |
| 02:32:46 | scribe | treke: I'm makin' a ipk and want to know where to put stuff |
| 02:32:49 | peanut | echo wouldn't edit though.. |
| 02:32:58 | scribe | like user prefs and stuff |
| 02:33:14 | peanut | you could install necessary software from the zaurus project @ sf |
| 02:33:14 | ekkis | peanut: yes... there must be a better way though? |
| 02:34:16 | scribe | ekkis: I had to cat >> /etc/hosts |
| 02:34:17 | treke | scribe : probably ought to generate the preferences automatically and not ship a config file. not sure where data should go |
| 02:34:26 | scribe | ekkis: paste then ctrl-d |
| 02:34:34 | altered | 5 seconds of audio 137.5k |
| 02:34:51 | kyoorius | ekkis: u could ftp it down, make a change, and the ftp it back. (port 4242) |
| 02:35:24 | ekkis | scribe: thx! |
| 02:35:58 | ekkis | kyoorius: aha! I had not realised you could ftp with it... so much to learn... |
| 02:36:06 | scribe | ekkis: np |
| 02:36:06 | ekkis | kyoorius: thank you. |
| 02:36:23 | kyoorius | scribe's way sounds faster if you're only adding 1 line. |
| 02:37:14 | scribe | could someone do a: df on their z and paste the contents here? |
| 02:37:49 | kyoorius | # df |
| 02:37:49 | kyoorius | Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on |
| 02:37:54 | kyoorius | doh. |
| 02:38:04 | kyoorius | /dev/ram1 44 25 19 57% /dev |
| 02:38:10 | kyoorius | /dev/mtdblock1 5371 1006 4058 20% /home |
| 02:38:14 | kyoorius | /dev/hda1 63842 16416 47426 26% /usr/mnt.rom/cf |
| 02:38:55 | scribe | kyoorius: thanks, so where is flash? |
| 02:39:10 | scribe | /home? |
| 02:39:15 | kyoorius | cardflash? |
| 02:39:20 | kyoorius | cardflash=/dev/hda1 |
| 02:39:25 | scribe | ah! I see why 'doh.' :) |
| 02:39:59 | scribe | ok, that's external, but is there a place I can write that will store in internal flash? |
| 02:40:07 | scribe | I have this on my ipaq: |
| 02:40:31 | scribe | Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on |
| 02:40:31 | scribe | /dev/mtdblock/1 16128 15704 424 98% / |
| 02:40:31 | scribe | tmpfs 15428 112 15316 1% /mnt/ramfs |
| 02:40:47 | scribe | / is internal flash |
| 02:41:16 | scribe | /mnt/ramfs is 16megs of ram storage (goes away on powerdown) |
| 02:42:17 | treke | scribe : the storage on the z is similar I think. |
| 02:42:20 | scribe | hey, kyoorius, there's no '/' partition in your df listing! |
| 02:42:39 | treke | except it doesnt go away on powerdown, just when the battery dies |
| 02:42:40 | | kergoth was last seen on #zaurus 2 hours, 36 minutes and 37 seconds ago, saying: im goin home [Wed Feb 6 00:06:03 2002] |
| 02:42:40 | zero1 | ibot seen kergoth |
| 02:42:41 | kergoth | re |
| 02:42:56 | | I haven't seen 'my', peanut |
| 02:42:56 | peanut | ibot seen my pants |
| 02:43:08 | kyoorius | ya. that is wierd, no / listing.. |
| 02:43:09 | scribe | treke: right, I should have been more specific: not on suspend, but on loss of power |
| 02:43:10 | | peanut was last seen on #zaurus 0 seconds ago, saying: ibot seen peanut [Wed Feb 6 02:43:10 2002] |
| 02:43:10 | peanut | ibot seen peanut |
| 02:43:14 | | zero1: huh? |
| 02:43:14 | zero1 | ibot pay my bills |
| 02:43:18 | Drago | hmm it would be nice if we had the usb driver fix :( |
| 02:43:21 | peanut | i like that.. |
| 02:43:23 | treke | scribe : yes and on reboots on the ipaq |
| 02:43:26 | kyoorius | i think the layout on this 1.11 rom is different from my 1.02 rom. |
| 02:43:37 | kyoorius | there was a cramfs somewhere b4. |
| 02:43:42 | peanut | just wants connectivity with linux again |
| 02:44:00 | Drago | i wish i knew what they changed on the Z side in the usb driver |
| 02:44:38 | kyoorius | mount shows: |
| 02:44:39 | kyoorius | /dev/mtdblock0 on / type cramfs (ro) |
| 02:44:39 | kyoorius | /proc on /proc type proc (rw) |
| 02:44:39 | kyoorius | /dev/ram1 on /dev type minix (rw) |
| 02:44:39 | kyoorius | /dev/mtdblock1 on /home type ext2 (rw,sync) |
| 02:44:39 | kyoorius | none on /dev/pts type devpts (rw) |
| 02:44:40 | kyoorius | /dev/hda1 on /usr/mnt.rom/cf type vfat (rw) |
| 02:44:41 | scribe | treke: oh! so you can reboot the zaurus and not lose ramfs?! |
| 02:45:10 | treke | scribe : right, its not really ramfs, but similar |
| 02:45:21 | treke | scribe : its more like the nonvolitile ram disk driver on the ipaq |
| 02:45:45 | peanut | hey.. ibot is kind of cool |
| 02:45:52 | kyoorius | here's something interesting: |
| 02:45:55 | scribe | ok, so here's my problem. I want to install a configuration file that looks in 2 places for it's books. 1) in flash, for stuff you want to keep around; 2) ram for books that you wouldn't care about loosing |
| 02:46:04 | kyoorius | I edited my /etc/hotplug/dhcpcd.conf file. |
| 02:46:07 | scribe | treke: cool |
| 02:46:21 | kyoorius | but i think it resets back to default when the unit goes into power off,then back on. |
| 02:46:34 | treke | can you write to flash on the zaurus? |
| 02:46:51 | kergoth | scribe: i wouldnt do it that way. use the documents system in qtopia with FielSelector, FileManager and friends |
| 02:46:55 | kergoth | treke: no |
| 02:46:56 | ljp | the next openzaurus will be able too |
| 02:46:57 | scribe | treke: not sure. I'm thinking in ipaq terms |
| 02:47:03 | kergoth | treke: well, not on the sharp roms anyway |
| 02:47:10 | treke | scribe : well like kergoth said, you cant :) |
| 02:47:24 | Aelfweld | anyone know why I wouldn't be able to flash from oz 2.6 to any of the sharp roms? |
| 02:47:41 | kergoth | Aelfweld: ive done it, shouldnt be a prob |
| 02:47:59 | kyoorius | maybe you're having a hard time holding down the C -D buttons. |
| 02:48:01 | Aelfweld | my leds light for like 5 seconds then go out |
| 02:48:19 | whardier | HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEee |
| 02:48:19 | kyoorius | & make sure the power is plugged into the bottom. |
| 02:48:21 | whardier | yah |
| 02:48:32 | Aelfweld | yep pluged in |
| 02:48:38 | kergoth | Aelfweld : check for currupt romimage |
| 02:48:48 | scribe | ok, so how about /home/sword and /usr/mnt.rom/cf That way, if you can swap cf cards with different books on them. |
| 02:48:52 | kergoth | hey whardier |
| 02:48:58 | whardier | hows my little muffin cake |
| 02:49:14 | Aelfweld | I tried going back to the 1.02 I had used fine before didn't work |
| 02:49:18 | whardier | is done with the wireless install.. now I have tomake install disks and then I can get the hell out of Anchorage |
| 02:49:22 | treke | scribe what about people who dont have cf cards? |
| 02:49:31 | kergoth | scribe: when you insert a cf card, qtopia populates the documents interface with those files on the cf. if you access the docs interface, it'll take care of that |
| 02:49:32 | Aelfweld | damn guess I will kee[ trying |
| 02:49:39 | scribe | well, then it will only find stuff in /home/sword |
| 02:49:41 | altered | Aelfweld: are there any other files in the root directory of your flash card? |
| 02:49:45 | treke | scribe : Use the DocLnk system |
| 02:49:51 | kergoth | precisely |
| 02:49:53 | Aelfweld | no i deleted those when i started having a problem |
| 02:50:05 | Aelfweld | and tried a second flash card too |
| 02:50:08 | scribe | kergoth: ok, but my reader needs to look somewhere for it's books on startup. |
| 02:50:24 | kergoth | scribe: populate teh list using the DocLnk system. |
| 02:50:38 | scribe | kergoth: I think you want me to associate a book with my reader? |
| 02:50:39 | kergoth | scribe: either open a FileSelector or create the list yourself |
| 02:51:12 | scribe | kergoth: ok, trying to understand... |
| 02:51:16 | kergoth | scribe: yes, but the document->app connection isnt necessary for you to operate in the reverse direction |
| 02:51:37 | altered | 42 seconds of audio... 1.5M... seems excessive... |
| 02:51:48 | kergoth | scribe: read the qtopia docs on FileManager, FileSelector, and related classes. possibly look at the DocLnk code itself |
| 02:51:52 | kergoth | s/DocLmk/DocLnk/ |
| 02:52:11 | kergoth | altered: that using the voice recorder? |
| 02:52:12 | scribe | kergoth: on startup, but bookreader looks in 3 places for it's books. 1) working directory; 2)$SWORD_PATH; 3)/etc/sword.conf and inside DataPath= |
| 02:52:38 | altered | kergoth: yes... they need plugin support for alternate encoders :) |
| 02:52:46 | fiferboy | aelfweld: I had that problem too, turns out I forgot to unzip the image... |
| 02:52:52 | scribe | kergoth: then augments what it found with $HOME/.sword/ |
| 02:53:07 | scribe | there is no file selector offered to the user to pick the book |
| 02:53:21 | kergoth | scribe: what interface does it offer for book selection? |
| 02:53:28 | Aelfweld | no I extracted romimage to the flash using winzip so thats not it |
| 02:53:50 | Aelfweld | good thought though o) |
| 02:53:52 | kergoth | Aelfweld: do a md5sum on 'romimage' and compare to what one of us has |
| 02:54:14 | scribe | kergoth: books are specialized for functionity: e.g. dictionary book gets opened when you highlight a word and choose 'Lookup' from tap-n-hold menu |
| 02:54:53 | scribe | there is a basic utility to switch between installed book on tap-n-hold|Choose Module|<list of books> |
| 02:55:01 | kergoth | scribe: i see.. hmm |
| 02:55:10 | Aelfweld | ba8ebe3d420c165224aceb580b9d5074 ROMIMAGE for 1.11 |
| 02:55:16 | scribe | So I just need 2 good places to install books |
| 02:55:30 | kergoth | scribe: still, there must be a way to use built in qtopia aspects for dealing with locating books |
| 02:55:33 | kergoth | hmm |
| 02:56:01 | whardier | poke |
| 02:56:09 | Aelfweld | peek |
| 02:56:10 | treke | sounds like the real problem is associating data with a book |
| 02:56:21 | scribe | kergoth: ok, well, you said something happens when a cf card is inserted. What was that again? |
| 02:57:02 | scribe | treke: right, a book consists of all kinds of data files, including indecies |
| 02:57:35 | kergoth | brb |
| 02:57:38 | treke | scribe : are the extentions unique? |
| 02:57:46 | scribe | where does typical program data get stored? |
| 02:57:51 | kergoth | treke: its not extensions, its mime type that is the key |
| 02:58:02 | treke | kergoth : but he could cheat using the extentions |
| 02:58:16 | kergoth | scribe: if its a document, it goes in $HOME/Documents iirc |
| 02:58:31 | scribe | kergoth: how does it 'know' if it's a document? |
| 02:58:54 | treke | scribe : It will have a .desktop file also |
| 02:59:02 | kergoth | scribe: mime type. associations made by the .desktop file for the app |
| 02:59:37 | treke | kergoth : is there any way to define the mime type without a desktop file to link link the document to datafile? |
| 02:59:53 | scribe | I know if I have books on a CF. my engine can look at the contents and figure that out. |
| 02:59:58 | kergoth | treke: yes, /opt/QtPalmtop/etc/mime.types |
| 03:00:12 | treke | looks |
| 03:00:23 | Aelfweld | kergoth: what was your md5sum for 1.10 or 1.11? |
| 03:01:13 | treke | arent those only the "official" mime types? |
| 03:01:16 | Mallory | 296fb3e7567d4f2d3e1e318193cf99cc SL5UpdateV110.zip |
| 03:01:18 | Mallory | a8bdccc0db1a9a9d4c32dc4898def242 ROMIMAGE |
| 03:01:28 | treke | wouldnt scribe need to use an xapplication-something type? |
| 03:02:11 | scribe | guys, I'm not sure what we're trying to do here. If we associate a mime type to the files somehow, that will give us? |
| 03:02:14 | kergoth | treke: yes, but i think the .desktop will be the only means of registering those types |
| 03:02:40 | scribe | kergoth: my book reader has a .desktop file |
| 03:02:41 | kergoth | re JasonNJ |
| 03:02:52 | kergoth | yawns |
| 03:02:54 | ljp | MImeType=scribe/plain or whatever |
| 03:02:55 | kergoth | brb |
| 03:03:00 | treke | kergoth : but when he distributes his data files they want have a .desktop :) |
| 03:03:20 | scribe | treke: right |
| 03:03:26 | scribe | I still don't get it. |
| 03:03:33 | scribe | say there is an associate. |
| 03:03:37 | scribe | what does that give us? |
| 03:03:38 | Aelfweld | ugh the checksums are fine |
| 03:04:25 | scribe | ok, I'm gonna work on this for the ipaq first, since I know what's up there... |
| 03:04:28 | treke | scribe : then you just request documents of type scribe/plain or whatever and you can get a list of them |
| 03:04:48 | scribe | no matter where they are? |
| 03:04:59 | scribe | anywhere in the filesystem? |
| 03:05:10 | treke | scribe : right |
| 03:05:26 | scribe | well, each book has a .conf file |
| 03:05:41 | scribe | but I'm sure that's already used. |
| 03:06:04 | scribe | I could distribute a special .qpsword file or something, I guess. |
| 03:06:11 | ljp | DocLnk lnk; lnk.setType("scribe/plain"); when you create files |
| 03:06:21 | treke | ljp : The files are preexisting |
| 03:06:27 | ljp | ahh.. hmmm |
| 03:06:45 | treke | and it has to coopeate with non-qtopia platform |
| 03:06:45 | JasonNJ | man I'm beat |
| 03:07:03 | Aelfweld | ok one last try to flash my z then I suppose I will have to contact sharp tomorrow after work |
| 03:07:05 | treke | scribe : take a look at ljps guten book source. maybe that'll help |
| 03:07:22 | treke | ljp : Its actually similiar to what gutenbook does now that I think of it :) |
| 03:07:31 | ljp | but it doesn't matter, you can lnk.setName("anypreexistingFilename"); lnk.writeLnk(); |
| 03:07:57 | ljp | ya. I just rename the text file, and write a lnk |
| 03:08:00 | treke | ljp : but the location of the file isnt necesarrily known |
| 03:09:21 | scribe | I'm just gonna store stuff in /root and $HOME/.sword and ln -s /mnt/ramfs/.sword $HOME/.sword That will work for the ipaq |
| 03:09:35 | scribe | someone else can figure out the z |
| 03:09:36 | scribe | :) |
| 03:09:59 | scribe | /root is $HOME for qtopia apps on ipaq |
| 03:10:10 | scribe | and is also on flash |
| 03:10:14 | peanut | hey hason |
| 03:10:17 | treke | at the very least use $HOME and not /root :) |
| 03:10:17 | peanut | sorry to hear that.. |
| 03:10:42 | treke | not everyone leaves $HOME at /root |
| 03:10:46 | roge99 | Aelfweld: your cards are FAT16 right ? |
| 03:10:57 | JasonNJ | jerry epplin at linuxdevices reviewed the yopy |
| 03:11:02 | JasonNJ | he basically says it sucks |
| 03:11:02 | Aelfweld | ok the last thing I can think of is the card is not formatted correctly. what the best way to reformat it? |
| 03:11:03 | scribe | so I should use a script to move the book after install to $HOME/.sword? |
| 03:11:12 | Aelfweld | roge99: thats what I am wondering |
| 03:11:35 | scribe | so far, these ipk things seem to want a directory structure from root |
| 03:11:59 | scribe | I wonder how to install to $HOME/.sword |
| 03:12:02 | altered | JasonNJ: does the Image viewer have a problem with all large images, or just some of them? |
| 03:12:06 | scribe | looking more at the ipk docs... |
| 03:12:19 | Aelfweld | is there a way to format the card fat16 under oz? |
| 03:12:35 | JasonNJ | altered: even on the 1.11 rom? |
| 03:12:59 | altered | JasonNJ: yep... can't view images from my Nikon Coolpix 775... |
| 03:13:08 | Mallory | It has problems with any images I throw at it |
| 03:13:17 | altered | JasonNJ: they're only 300k or so... and with 8M of free ram, you'd think I could view them :) |
| 03:13:23 | JasonNJ | aef: yes you can format it |
| 03:13:26 | Mallory | (pictures from my DC280 that were on the CF card before I put it in the Z) |
| 03:13:39 | Mallory | Same situation, altered |
| 03:13:43 | JasonNJ | altered I'll talk to mitchy about it but I think its a problem being lack of ram |
| 03:13:52 | Mallory | Looking at pictures on my Z is not a huge priority for me though so I don't care much. :) |
| 03:13:53 | JasonNJ | at least on the 5000D |
| 03:14:14 | JasonNJ | a swapfile on the flashcard will solve the problem, but you really dont want to swap on flash |
| 03:14:43 | JasonNJ | altered do you have 8 |
| 03:14:47 | altered | JasonNJ: yes, it says it runs out of memory... |
| 03:14:57 | JasonNJ | altered do you have 8MB of free HEAP or filesystem |
| 03:15:04 | altered | JasonNJ: 8M free heap. |
| 03:15:05 | JasonNJ | and are you using 1.11 or 1.10 |
| 03:15:08 | Mallory | I tried with swap, same thing :) |
| 03:15:10 | altered | 1.11 |
| 03:15:15 | JasonNJ | hmm |
| 03:15:18 | Aelfweld | how do I format the cf on the z? |
| 03:15:19 | JasonNJ | email mitchy about it |
| 03:15:22 | JasonNJ | tell him I sent you |
| 03:15:27 | roge99 | Aelfweld: mkdosfs |
| 03:15:48 | Aelfweld | thanks |
| 03:15:54 | JasonNJ | katayama.michita@sharp.co.jp |
| 03:16:12 | JasonNJ | its just after lunchtime now in nara |
| 03:16:15 | roge99 | Aelfweld: i think you need -F 16 on that as well |
| 03:16:19 | JasonNJ | he'll get it immediately |
| 03:16:24 | Aelfweld | and a /dev/?? |
| 03:16:36 | roge99 | Aelfweld: you may want to check the manpage |
| 03:16:37 | peanut | bought a new car |
| 03:16:54 | JasonNJ | df -k will tell you what the mounted device name is |
| 03:17:06 | JasonNJ | peanut what kind |
| 03:17:10 | roge99 | Aelfweld: i think cf shows up as hda |
| 03:17:13 | roge99 | Aelfweld: i think cf shows up as hda1 |
| 03:17:35 | peanut | JasonNJ: a 2002 nissan pathfinder le |
| 03:18:43 | roge99 | Aelfweld: yea shows up as /dev/hda1 |
| 03:19:05 | roge99 | Aelfweld: you need to umount it before formating it |
| 03:19:31 | JasonNJ | peanut: nice |
| 03:19:35 | JasonNJ | I had a pathfinder once |
| 03:19:37 | JasonNJ | good car |
| 03:19:47 | peanut | this replaced our 99 pathfinder (Which was a lease) |
| 03:19:50 | peanut | will never lease again |
| 03:20:17 | peanut | we had a dvd entertainment system put in.. |
| 03:20:20 | peanut | from circuit city.. |
| 03:20:25 | peanut | i will never deal with them again either.. |
| 03:20:38 | JasonNJ | I dont know why the hell people put dvds in their cars |
| 03:20:42 | peanut | it was 1" bigger, and 200 dollars cheaper |
| 03:20:51 | peanut | looking back, i should have got the dealer model |
| 03:20:57 | peanut | JasonNJ: its obvious you do not have kids |
| 03:21:16 | JasonNJ | peanut: there are other ways for kids to entertain themselves |
| 03:21:25 | JasonNJ | like, there are things called books |
| 03:21:28 | peanut | on 5 and 10 hour trips |
| 03:21:34 | peanut | when they're 2-4 years old |
| 03:21:34 | roge99 | yea beat the crap outa each other |
| 03:21:44 | roge99 | peanut: how many you got |
| 03:21:57 | peanut | has 1, but usually takes long trips with nephew as well |
| 03:22:06 | JasonNJ | damn how many 5 and 10 hour trips do you go on |
| 03:22:07 | roge99 | i got 2 myself |
| 03:22:18 | treke | I seem to remember entertaining myself by pestering my parents :) |
| 03:22:20 | peanut | takes a montly trip to ct (from de) |
| 03:22:27 | peanut | monthly even |
| 03:22:31 | roge99 | where in ct |
| 03:22:34 | roge99 | im in ct |
| 03:22:37 | peanut | ridgefield |
| 03:22:41 | roge99 | cool |
| 03:22:46 | peanut | my in-laws |
| 03:22:53 | JasonNJ | I dunno I suppose if tis for your sanity in the car its ok. |
| 03:23:08 | JasonNJ | but I really hate it when parents shove kids in front of TV's to get them out of their hair |
| 03:23:21 | peanut | JasonNJ: the car is different |
| 03:23:26 | JasonNJ | my brothers in law do that and it annoys the shit out of me |
| 03:23:29 | peanut | my daughter might watch an hour a day. |
| 03:23:31 | JasonNJ | yeah the car is different |
| 03:23:37 | peanut | and that includes the time when my wife showers |
| 03:23:39 | JasonNJ | I hate it when people drive me nuts in the car |
| 03:23:45 | Aelfweld | hmm now I have flashing green+orange leds.. what does that mean? |
| 03:23:53 | peanut | the dvd in the car is to keep her occupied and not fussing.. |
| 03:23:54 | JasonNJ | I suppose kids would drive me nuts in the car |
| 03:23:58 | roge99 | morse code ? |
| 03:24:08 | peanut | before this, the driver (my wife or I) was distracted constantly! |
| 03:24:15 | roge99 | how old |
| 03:24:39 | peanut | anyway.. |
| 03:24:42 | NeoTron | I can definitely see the point of a DVD/video in the car. Not that my kids would care much at the moment (2x9 mo) |
| 03:24:48 | roge99 | long trips w/ small childern can be fun |
| 03:24:54 | peanut | hehehe.. |
| 03:25:03 | peanut | yeah.. "fun" |
| 03:25:11 | peanut | we drove 5.5 hours to pittsburgh.. |
| 03:25:16 | JasonNJ | I have no kids. just 2 miniature poodles |
| 03:25:24 | JasonNJ | they are active enough as it is |
| 03:25:25 | peanut | how do your dogs travel? |
| 03:25:32 | kyoorius_ | does anyone know what "/usr/sbin/chat -f /etc/ppp/scripts/winclient.chat" is for? |
| 03:25:36 | peanut | my labs get impatient after about 4 hours. |
| 03:25:37 | JasonNJ | they dont |
| 03:25:40 | roge99 | i got projetile-vomited on the back of my head while driving 2 hours from home |
| 03:25:43 | peanut | smart.. |
| 03:25:45 | JasonNJ | I kennel them |
| 03:25:48 | Aelfweld | chat is for startign ppp |
| 03:25:49 | peanut | ahh.. |
| 03:25:51 | peanut | we never kennel |
| 03:26:02 | JasonNJ | that or I give them to my parents |
| 03:26:03 | peanut | they either travel with us (or the girl next door watches them) |
| 03:26:07 | JasonNJ | who also have 2 poodles |
| 03:26:10 | peanut | i know :) |
| 03:26:16 | kyoorius_ | aelf: is that ppp -> usb -> my pc? |
| 03:26:24 | Aelfweld | kyoorius_ that must pring up the pp connection to windows |
| 03:26:32 | Aelfweld | kyoorius_: yeah I think so |
| 03:26:33 | peanut | can't dial up over irda.. |
| 03:26:40 | JasonNJ | btw anyone having opera problems with 1.10 or 1.11 |
| 03:26:45 | JasonNJ | like, segmentation faults |
| 03:27:04 | Aelfweld | someone was mentioning that earlier I think |
| 03:27:08 | roge99 | JasonNJ: havent used it enough |
| 03:27:10 | kyoorius | im killing off everything i can to free up memory and see if I can load up a 500K pic in image viewer. |
| 03:27:13 | JasonNJ | yeah I reported that to mitchy |
| 03:27:17 | peanut | anyone dialing up over irda? |
| 03:27:32 | roge99 | kyoorius: that ppp connection is started from inittab |
| 03:27:33 | JasonNJ | I am not entirely sure that jpeg problem is a memory issue |
| 03:27:46 | peanut | i can call from my laptop over irda (using minicom) |
| 03:27:49 | kyoorius | well, the image viwer takes up 4megs by itself. |
| 03:27:49 | JasonNJ | because we run pretty friggin huge mpeg4 files without a hitch |
| 03:28:04 | peanut | but the Z just won't go.. |
| 03:28:13 | peanut | it dials, connects, but then sputters |
| 03:28:23 | kyoorius | mpegs are streamed, the jpeg might be read into a buffer and then decompressed before resized .... |
| 03:28:55 | peanut | hrmm.. its like i don't get a CONNECT |
| 03:30:34 | roge99 | Aelfweld: did you get that card formatted |
| 03:30:43 | Aelfweld | ahh its flashing yes thanks |
| 03:30:44 | kyoorius | i just tried to pull up the 500K jpg under the opera browser.. |
| 03:30:49 | kyoorius | all i get is a blank screen. |
| 03:30:55 | Aelfweld | windows kept screwing up the card |
| 03:31:11 | roge99 | windows could screw up anything |
| 03:31:27 | roge99 | can ya tell im a big fan |
| 03:32:46 | peanut | aren't we all? |
| 03:33:00 | roge99 | :-) |
| 03:33:57 | Aelfweld | its good for playing diablo2 and quicken thats about it |
| 04:00:52 | whardier | hi |
| 04:01:54 | kergoth`home | whardier: hey |
| 04:02:01 | whardier | whats new pussy cat? |
| 04:02:50 | ljp | meow, meow, meow |
| 04:02:54 | whardier | heh |
| 04:03:00 | ljp | meow |
| 04:03:37 | kergoth`home | Kernel panic: no init found. |
| 04:03:41 | kergoth`home | hate that. |
| 04:03:55 | whardier | HAHA |
| 04:03:56 | whardier | doh |
| 04:04:00 | whardier | I cannot wait to work on OZ again |
| 04:05:07 | kergoth`home | yeah i could use the assistance. you may want to start hanging out in #opie as well, since that is the ver of qtopia we use in OZ now. we've been discussing integration of konq/e and a micro kdelibs lately |
| 04:05:29 | kergoth`home | http://opie.handhelds.org/ |
| 04:05:30 | kergoth`home | heh |
| 04:08:51 | kergoth`home | whardier: where's the kernel patch for the fonts.. 4x6 and friends? |
| 04:08:58 | kergoth`home | whardier: i need to add that patch to the buildsystem |
| 04:09:46 | ljp | micro kdelibs? |
| 04:10:07 | kergoth`home | ljp: well kdelibs but cleaned a bit for embedded. heh |
| 04:10:32 | ljp | seems like a lot of work... :) |
| 04:10:47 | kergoth`home | indeed. i'm glad there are kde developers assisting with the project. hehe |
| 04:10:50 | kergoth`home | yawns |
| 04:13:51 | roge99 | ljp: did you get that romimage mounted ? |
| 04:15:52 | ljp | yes I did.. that's cool |
| 04:16:02 | roge99 | cool |
| 04:16:32 | whardier | kergoth`home sorry.. I was off talking to the mayor |
| 04:16:37 | whardier | smallfonts.diff |
| 04:16:41 | whardier | on geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezer |
| 04:17:09 | whardier | /var/www/smallfonts.diff |
| 04:17:56 | kergoth`home | whardier: k |
| 04:19:52 | whardier | jffs2? |
| 04:20:20 | kergoth`home | whardier: jffs2 works, just hacking at the filesystem to get rid of symlink hell |
| 04:20:21 | kergoth`home | heh |
| 04:20:29 | whardier | WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 04:20:42 | whardier | I wanna install that tonight :) |
| 04:20:45 | whardier | wow |
| 04:20:46 | whardier | WOOWOO |
| 04:20:51 | whardier | kisses bzflag and kergoth |
| 04:21:43 | kergoth`home | lol.. chill! |
| 04:21:58 | roge99 | nite all |
| 04:22:18 | kergoth`home | backs away slowly. try to do that again, and i will certainly kill you. |
| 04:22:20 | kergoth`home | eheh |
| 04:22:35 | kergoth`home | whardier: finally got the buildsystem building gnupg properly.. took long enough |
| 04:22:43 | whardier | gnupg? |
| 04:23:10 | kergoth`home | yeah, it was being a bitch. undefined references all over the place |
| 04:23:33 | kergoth`home | it'd be nifty to have gnupg support in a qpe mail app |
| 04:23:51 | whardier | gnu privacy guard? |
| 04:23:56 | kergoth`home | yeah |
| 04:24:05 | roge99_sleep | is away: ZZzzzZZzzzzzzzz |
| 04:24:19 | whardier | when did we need that? |
| 04:24:32 | whardier | pgp replacement prettymuch? |
| 04:24:37 | kergoth`home | yeah |
| 04:24:40 | kergoth`home | openpgp implementation |
| 04:24:49 | kergoth`home | works well |
| 04:24:52 | finkployd_II | When pgp went closed source and Zimmerman quit |
| 04:25:00 | whardier | :( |
| 04:25:02 | whardier | Fuck |
| 04:25:41 | Mallory | gnupg is just an OpenPGP-compliant PGP program. |
| 04:26:03 | kergoth`home | yep |
| 04:26:08 | finkployd_II | gnupg is the only public key encryption system I trust. It is also the only one that Penn State University and PHEAA (huge student load bank) and several other institutions trust. (but they will not admit that publicly) |
| 04:26:26 | Mallory | gnupg is an application, not really a "system" IMHO. |
| 04:26:39 | Mallory | I trust PGP, and I trust GnuPG to do PGP for me. |
| 04:26:51 | finkployd_II | system, application, it's all just code |
| 04:26:52 | finkployd_II | :) |
| 04:27:03 | kergoth`home | Mallory: indeed. me too. which is why I want gnupg on my Z, and integrationi with my qpe mail app :-) |
| 04:27:07 | Mallory | it also depends on what you want to use crypto for. |
| 04:27:17 | Mallory | I want GnuPG on my Z for other reasons. I don't think I'll ever read mail on my Z. |
| 04:27:46 | Mallory | If I'm not at work I have to SSH through three firealls to get to my mail so it's not exatly "ideal for me" :) |
| 04:27:59 | Mallory | bbiab, as fastolife would say "nicotine break" |
| 04:28:08 | kergoth`home | heh |
| 04:28:23 | finkployd_II | PGP (RFC2440) I trust. PGP (Network Associates Program) I do not. |
| 04:29:04 | kergoth`home | finkployd_II: yes, i suspect that was what he meant. hehe. |
| 04:30:38 | kergoth`home | whardier: I added a cvslogs mailing list to the openzaurus sourceforge project and set it up. feel free to join and monitor the activities in the oz buildsystem |
| 04:34:21 | Mallory | Yeah, when I say "PGP" I'm talking about the PGP system, not about PGP Inc. or Network Associates. :) |
| 04:49:38 | tux_mike | hrmmm.... |
| 04:50:11 | Mallory | Okay, are there any issues with the CDCEther driver and the new ROMs? |
| 04:50:41 | Fastolfe | yes |
| 04:50:42 | sjohnson | Mallory: they don't work? |
| 04:50:43 | Fastolfe | it won't work |
| 04:50:49 | Mallory | I cannot for the life of me get networking through the USB cradle working and I have things set up just about exactly how I had them with the old ROMs. |
| 04:50:50 | sjohnson | Would that count? |
| 04:50:51 | Mallory | Any workarounds? |
| 04:50:55 | Fastolfe | just like with 1.08 |
| 04:51:04 | Fastolfe | Mallory: I'm working on it |
| 04:51:06 | sjohnson | Drop back to an old ROM image |
| 04:51:07 | Mallory | All I'm seeing (tcpdump) |
| 04:51:09 | Mallory | 23:52:15.378456 arp who-has 192.168.1.201 tell 192.168.1.200 |
| 04:51:10 | Fastolfe | Mallory: trying |
| 04:51:20 | Mallory | Hey cool, if you need any help or want testing let me know. :) |
| 04:51:22 | Mallory | I'll be here all night. |
| 04:51:26 | Fastolfe | heh |
| 04:51:32 | Mallory | works better at night |
| 04:51:36 | Fastolfe | not me, for the life of me I need sleep these days :) |
| 04:52:36 | Mallory | Na, I only need 2hrs of sleep each night and about 10 every three days and I'm fine. |
| 04:54:49 | Mallory | Finally got a new switch closer to my desk so I don't have to run a ghetto net across the room to use my Socket |
| 04:54:52 | Mallory | crimps |
| 05:03:28 | NeoTron | yawns. |
| 05:12:37 | JasonNJ | fastolfe: your calibration for the framebuffer deamon is squirrely |
| 05:12:56 | JasonNJ | takes several tries to get it to work |
| 05:13:02 | Fastolfe | shoudn't |
| 05:13:17 | Fastolfe | It works rightaway with mine |
| 05:13:38 | JasonNJ | I wish it had some kind of audio feedback |
| 05:13:39 | sjohnson | is away: going to read his cache of magazines |
| 05:13:49 | JasonNJ | or visual |
| 05:13:53 | Fastolfe | I can flash the leds if you want |
| 05:13:56 | JasonNJ | it should blink the email when it calibrates |
| 05:13:58 | JasonNJ | yeah |
| 05:14:00 | JasonNJ | I like that |
| 05:14:02 | Fastolfe | k |
| 05:14:16 | Fastolfe | next release :) |
| 05:14:21 | JasonNJ | oh |
| 05:14:42 | JasonNJ | how do you specify to the server from teh windows client to run in regular mode |
| 05:14:45 | JasonNJ | without the fancy skin |
| 05:15:00 | Fastolfe | you can't, it's a server-side option |
| 05:15:02 | JasonNJ | and is there any way to launch the client in 16 bit graphics in the browser |
| 05:15:12 | Fastolfe | I'd have to run modified VNC clients for that |
| 05:15:16 | Fastolfe | I don't want that |
| 05:15:23 | JasonNJ | it seems the browser only does 8 bit |
| 05:15:52 | Fastolfe | The java client is in 16bpp, but it's the browser and java that brings it down |
| 05:16:01 | Fastolfe | It's like that with java |
| 05:16:03 | JasonNJ | hmm |
| 05:16:07 | JasonNJ | bleah |
| 05:16:15 | Fastolfe | nobody said java was desirable |
| 05:16:21 | Mallory | ahh, the Z finally has it's own perm. 'net cable |
| 05:16:32 | Fastolfe | I think it has something to do with limited palettes in the browser |
| 05:16:47 | MSpin | Fastolfe: what is the possibility of seperate packages for the server and the java stuff? |
| 05:16:47 | Fastolfe | Mallory: heh |
| 05:17:00 | JasonNJ | the vnc is very fast over usb |
| 05:17:02 | Fastolfe | MSpin: yes and no |
| 05:17:05 | JasonNJ | much faster than 802.11 |
| 05:17:13 | Fastolfe | JasonNJ: probably latency issues |
| 05:17:36 | Fastolfe | MSpin: you can serve the java from a http server, but then you have to install an http server and copy the files by hand |
| 05:17:45 | JasonNJ | asteroids is almost playable |
| 05:17:47 | Fastolfe | MSpin: in short it's rah-rah |
| 05:18:10 | Fastolfe | JasonNJ: almost because the keyboard emulation doesn't allow you to keep a key pressed :) |
| 05:18:16 | Mallory | So 0.0.5 is current? |
| 05:18:19 | Mallory | About to give it a whirl |
| 05:18:19 | Fastolfe | yeah |
| 05:18:25 | Fastolfe | 0.5.5-5 |
| 05:18:33 | Fastolfe | whirl ? :) |
| 05:18:33 | JasonNJ | are there any faster protocols than vnc |
| 05:18:35 | Mallory | Got all those malloc() issues worked out? |
| 05:18:37 | Fastolfe | oh |
| 05:18:41 | JasonNJ | like tarantella? |
| 05:18:45 | Mallory | whirl == about to try it out |
| 05:18:50 | JasonNJ | or the linux terminal server project |
| 05:18:51 | MSpin | Fastolfe: I was just thinking you might be able to not install the java code..make it smaller |
| 05:18:51 | Fastolfe | yeah, I misread |
| 05:18:53 | kergoth`home | yawns |
| 05:19:11 | Fastolfe | MSpin: you can zap the /usr/local/vnc dir if you don't care about java |
| 05:19:20 | MSpin | k |
| 05:19:22 | kergoth`home | Fastolfe: does tight encoding work to the Z to decrease lag? |
| 05:19:25 | Fastolfe | the mem leaks are out, yes |
| 05:19:27 | NeoTron | JasonNJ: I need to port SDLRoids to the Z. It kicks kastroids butt. :-PP |
| 05:19:43 | JasonNJ | I have to get hall a z to port sdl |
| 05:19:51 | JasonNJ | thats one of the things on my list |
| 05:20:03 | NeoTron | I wouldn't use SDL. Already have a PalmOS port. :-) |
| 05:20:12 | NeoTron | but SDL would be nice in general yes |
| 05:20:17 | Fastolfe | kergoth: the prob with fancy encoding on a slow-ish CPU like the sa1100 is, when you're on a lan, or over usb, it actually works slightly against you |
| 05:20:17 | MSpin | Is there a decently safe way to allow users (on a desktop) to loop back mount stuff off their home dir ? |
| 05:20:24 | JasonNJ | speaking of palmOs |
| 05:20:32 | JasonNJ | I had a cool idea for a wicked peripheral. |
| 05:20:37 | Mallory | I see telnetd is on the new ROMs. Can you telnet to it as root? |
| 05:20:41 | Fastolfe | kergoth: but if you use less fancy compressions, it also works against you |
| 05:20:41 | JasonNJ | but not sure if it is even possible technically |
| 05:20:50 | Fastolfe | kergoth: so all in all they are all comparable |
| 05:21:02 | Fastolfe | kergoth: on a lan. Over modem, tight wins |
| 05:21:24 | Fastolfe | JasonNJ: you want to see a wicked peripheral I'm working on right now ? :) |
| 05:21:25 | JasonNJ | I was thinking, what if you put a dragonball processor and 8MB of RAM in a CF card |
| 05:21:55 | JasonNJ | basically, a palm with no screen, no keyboard. |
| 05:21:56 | Fastolfe | is real proud of his latest Zaurus hack |
| 05:22:13 | JasonNJ | use the Z's screen, keyboard, and local storage for the rom image |
| 05:22:22 | NeoTron | JasonNJ: talk about a hack. :P |
| 05:22:23 | JasonNJ | thru a software viewer application. |
| 05:22:28 | NeoTron | like those PC cards for Sparc |
| 05:22:30 | Fastolfe | JasonNJ: I'm sure someone will do it eventually |
| 05:22:41 | JasonNJ | I bet it could go for less than 100 bux |
| 05:22:43 | scanline | is back (gone 03:33:37) |
| 05:22:49 | JasonNJ | and you could package an app to suck the rom out of your palm |
| 05:22:54 | JasonNJ | and run it on the Z |
| 05:22:57 | Fastolfe | JasonNJ: so picture this : how about a 1942 morse key on a Zaurus ? :) |
| 05:22:57 | JasonNJ | in native mode |
| 05:24:09 | JasonNJ | thing is, is CF's bandwidth big enough to do send color palm video data fast to the Z |
| 05:24:22 | JasonNJ | its certainly big enough to load a romimage |
| 05:24:31 | JasonNJ | cause I tested it with pose |
| 05:25:18 | NeoTron | wonder how fast pose would be on the Zaurus |
| 05:25:28 | JasonNJ | neo: well, copilot runs like shit |
| 05:25:31 | NeoTron | heh |
| 05:25:32 | JasonNJ | fastolfe ported it |
| 05:25:42 | Fastolfe | yeah, that's why it runs like shit :) |
| 05:26:08 | NeoTron | well, it's an emulator |
| 05:26:12 | JasonNJ | fastolfe: is it a processor issue or is just the code really bad |
| 05:26:28 | Fastolfe | the code is super-ultra-portable, which makes it that much slower |
| 05:26:44 | Fastolfe | it would run faster than a palm if I had time to make a native CPU emul |
| 05:26:56 | JasonNJ | you mean like run as a kernel process |
| 05:26:56 | NeoTron | I'm sure pose has been made better, at least I'm guessing that it's improved |
| 05:27:05 | Fastolfe | and pose would be even worse |
| 05:27:42 | NeoTron | Mallory: around? just added this on the first run: http://david.hedbor.org/tmp/snapshot07.png :-) |
| 05:28:06 | Mallory | nice |
| 05:28:09 | JasonNJ | neo: I saw the submission, havent compiled it yet |
| 05:28:14 | Mallory | I'm around, trying to get tlenet working |
| 05:28:16 | JasonNJ | I got a huge list to go thru |
| 05:28:59 | NeoTron | I believe ya |
| 05:29:50 | Mallory | hmm |
| 05:30:05 | Mallory | Okay, I haven't used telnet in a LONG time. What do I need to do to be able to telnet in? :) |
| 05:30:21 | Mallory | Does the account have to have a password? |
| 05:33:20 | Mallory | There we go |
| 05:33:31 | Fastolfe | is anybody not behind a firewall ? |
| 05:33:37 | Mallory | Hmm, can't su to an account without a password |
| 05:33:41 | Fastolfe | and on a real non-NATed IP ? |
| 05:33:41 | Mallory | Fast: Yup, why? |
| 05:33:53 | Mallory | I have a DMZ I can teset something from, why? |
| 05:33:56 | Fastolfe | I was thinking, how bout testing the fbvncserver remotely ? :) |
| 05:33:57 | Mallory | A few DMZ's actually. |
| 05:34:24 | Mallory | heh, not a reality. Our rules are really tight and I don't feel like hacking them right now. |
| 05:34:45 | Fastolfe | yeah, I was more thinking of somebody at home with a modem or something |
| 05:34:46 | Mallory | If you want to test latencies I can set up some CBQ rules and tell you how it feels |
| 05:34:52 | MSpin | Fastolfe: sure |
| 05:35:19 | Fastolfe | MSpin: you under windows or linux ? |
| 05:35:24 | MSpin | linux |
| 05:35:39 | Fastolfe | does your Zaurus have a real IP ? |
| 05:35:46 | MSpin | no:( |
| 05:35:47 | Fastolfe | that I can see that is ? |
| 05:35:49 | Fastolfe | oh ok |
| 05:35:53 | MSpin | sorry |
| 05:35:55 | Fastolfe | then do a port redirection |
| 05:36:04 | whardier | *hic* |
| 05:36:15 | whardier | I cannot wait to go home and down some cider |
| 05:36:33 | Fastolfe | hold on mspin, I'll tell you what do get in a sec |
| 05:36:39 | MSpin | Fastolfe: good point, let me see what I can do..brb |
| 05:36:49 | MSpin | I need to throw on the latest version |
| 05:36:51 | whardier | just watched the mayor get buzzed |
| 05:37:08 | Fastolfe | MSpin: do you have debian or rh or something else ? |
| 05:37:34 | MSpin | it's a rh box |
| 05:37:44 | Fastolfe | ok, go to rpmfind.net and look for "redir" |
| 05:37:47 | Fastolfe | that's what you want |
| 05:38:05 | Mallory | Or ipmasqadm |
| 05:38:08 | Mallory | Do port forwarding |
| 05:38:12 | whardier | lalala |
| 05:38:21 | whardier | who wants iptables rules! |
| 05:38:27 | Mallory | Usage: portfw -a -P PROTO -L LADDR LPORT -R RADDR RPORT [-p PREF] add entry |
| 05:38:44 | whardier | port redirection with iptables rules.. |
| 05:38:45 | Fastolfe | heh :) |
| 05:38:48 | Fastolfe | is behind |
| 05:39:02 | Fastolfe | I told you guys I was a computer idiot |
| 05:39:05 | MSpin | can't iptables rewrite ports? |
| 05:39:17 | Mallory | No big thing, but /etc/shadow is world-readable. |
| 05:39:19 | Mallory | Not a Good Idea. |
| 05:39:28 | Fastolfe | readable where ? |
| 05:39:39 | Mallory | On the Z |
| 05:39:50 | Mallory | $ id |
| 05:39:50 | Fastolfe | so what ? there's no pwd is there ? |
| 05:39:50 | Mallory | uid=666(rwm) gid=100(users) |
| 05:39:50 | Mallory | $ ls -la /etc/shadow |
| 05:39:50 | Mallory | -rw-rw-r-- 1 root root 330 Feb 7 05:32 /etc/shadow |
| 05:40:06 | Fastolfe | there's only one user and it's root :) |
| 05:40:13 | Mallory | It's no big deal, I'm just making a statement. :) |
| 05:40:18 | Fastolfe | lol |
| 05:40:28 | Fastolfe | well, I'm sure mspin will kill the redir once we're done |
| 05:40:30 | Fastolfe | :) |
| 05:40:56 | NeoTron | Mallory: telnet is evil. Use ssh. hehe :-) |
| 05:41:18 | kergoth`home | re |
| 05:41:20 | Mallory | Dude, I haven't used telnet since '98 |
| 05:41:21 | kergoth`home | yawns |
| 05:41:35 | Mallory | I just don't feel like installing SSH yet |
| 05:41:50 | kergoth`home | had to read every telnet rfc and write a telnet implementation with rfc2217 com port control support 6 months ago |
| 05:41:55 | kergoth`home | shudders |
| 05:42:19 | NeoTron | Mallory: hehe. I must say that the appearance of ssh made life so much easier |
| 05:42:47 | NeoTron | no longer did you ever have to be bothered by xauth issues, setting the display after telnetting (although telnet eventually "fixed" this issue) |
| 05:42:49 | Mallory | kergoth: What for? |
| 05:43:10 | NeoTron | also perfect for bypassing annoying firewalls... (port forwarding baby!) |
| 05:43:34 | kergoth`home | Mallory: well my company is selling a single port network attached serial device with rfc2217 support as the primary serial port config means |
| 05:43:40 | NeoTron | kergoth: most people probably don't even know that there's a telnet protocol |
| 05:43:43 | kergoth`home | Mallory: I had to write the sdk for it |
| 05:43:47 | Mallory | ahh |
| 05:43:50 | Mallory | Sounds ilke fun |
| 05:43:57 | kergoth`home | Mallory: even though I'm in tech support. how did i end up doing that i wonder? |
| 05:43:58 | kergoth`home | lol |
| 05:44:01 | Mallory | hahah |
| 05:44:06 | kergoth`home | thinks he should stop admitting he knows things |
| 05:44:16 | Mallory | Okay, so I think I'm gonna have to write a suid shell so I can get root once telnetted in |
| 05:44:44 | kergoth`home | Mallow: you realize, setting up sshd on there wouldve been easier than that |
| 05:44:45 | kergoth`home | hehe |
| 05:44:57 | Mallory | I know this |
| 05:45:14 | Mallory | I just may |
| 05:45:50 | kergoth`home | damnit . "Kernel panic: no init found." |
| 05:45:52 | kergoth`home | argh |
| 05:46:06 | kergoth`home | it couldnt find /sbin/init OR /dev/console once mounting the rootfs |
| 05:46:20 | kergoth`home | even though both are in the jffs2 rootfs according to jffs2reader |
| 05:46:28 | kergoth`home | need caffeine. brb |
| 05:47:25 | Mallory | hmm, vncserver isn't starting? |
| 05:48:44 | kergoth`home | k |
| 05:48:56 | Mallory | Yeah, fbvncserver isn't starting |
| 05:48:57 | Mallory | hmm |
| 05:49:14 | kergoth`home | rebooted since installing it? |
| 05:49:15 | kergoth`home | woot. signed the purchase agreement on my first house today. :-) |
| 05:49:19 | ljp | working here! |
| 05:49:29 | ljp | congrats kergoth! |
| 05:49:32 | Mallory | wow, ssh 3.0 is huge |
| 05:49:35 | Mallory | ker: yes |
| 05:49:39 | kergoth`home | ljp: thanks :-) |
| 05:49:55 | kergoth`home | Mallory: is it? how large? i was planning on integrating openssh 3.0 into oz 3 |
| 05:50:01 | NeoTron | kergoth: good for you. :) I've lived in 10 months now in my first house. |
| 05:50:08 | ljp | oh, man its huge! |
| 05:50:12 | ljp | I installed it to cf |
| 05:50:12 | Fastolfe | This is very confusing : it looks like /dev/dsp on the Zaurus does joint stereo |
| 05:50:17 | NeoTron | Mallory: ssh 3? Openssh3 or other ssh 3? |
| 05:50:43 | ljp | Fastolfe: what do you mean by joint stereo? |
| 05:51:42 | ljp | I just installed fbvncserver |
| 05:51:51 | ljp | wooohooo! |
| 05:52:05 | Fastolfe | well, I set /dev/dsp to be 16bit, 44100, stereo, send it a carrier wave with samples made of 4 bytes each, 2 for one channel, 2 for the other, and it only plays on the left one. Then when I dephase one channel 90 degrees from the other, it's total silence |
| 05:52:07 | Fastolfe | any thought ? |
| 05:52:55 | ljp | how odd |
| 05:53:34 | Fastolfe | yeah |
| 05:53:54 | Fastolfe | nothing surprises me anymore with that shitty kernel |
| 05:54:08 | tux_mike | I wonder if i could get any sponsors for a linux based battlebot :) |
| 05:57:51 | ljp | Fastolfe: ya.. I'm trying to read /dev/dsp1 and the sound is distorted doing a simple read/write |
| 05:58:06 | ljp | I dunno maybe I'm doing something wrong.. |
| 05:58:21 | ljp | vnc is way rad!!! BTW |
| 05:58:37 | Mallory | Man our upstream is having SERIOUS issues tonight. |
| 06:03:51 | Amigaman | hi.. anyone know where I can get an "package" file for handheld quake? |
| 06:03:56 | Amigaman | an=the |
| 06:04:23 | Mallory | http://opie.handhelds.org/feed/ipaq/ |
| 06:04:30 | ljp | last I heard quake was still not working very much on the Z |
| 06:04:38 | Mallory | It's not :) |
| 06:05:05 | Amigaman | oh |
| 06:05:14 | Amigaman | I am testing the AmigaDE |
| 06:05:16 | Mallory | You can install it but it's rather unplayable |
| 06:05:23 | Amigaman | We wanted to see the QT port in action first |
| 06:05:38 | Amigaman | I'll install it anyway.. |
| 06:05:39 | Mallory | 0K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 2% @ 272.12 B/s |
| 06:05:42 | Mallory | Man this hurts |
| 06:05:54 | kergoth`home | Mallory: thats just sad. |
| 06:06:03 | treke | 272KB/s? thats not bad |
| 06:06:07 | Fastolfe | lol I can see mspin's Z :)) |
| 06:06:13 | Mallory | Where do you see the K? |
| 06:06:17 | treke | oh |
| 06:06:23 | treke | that sucks |
| 06:06:25 | Mallory | :) |
| 06:06:40 | MSpin | Fastolfe: sloooooooooooly:) |
| 06:06:45 | Amigaman | hmm I cant see a filename that is similar to quake |
| 06:06:57 | kergoth`home | the quake packages arent in the opie feed |
| 06:07:02 | Amigaman | oh |
| 06:07:09 | Mallory | Oh, oops, yeah, that's the wrong URL. :) |
| 06:07:14 | | somebody said bipolar was going insane, his feed is at http://www.longbros.com/benjamin/ipaq/dist/feed/ |
| 06:07:14 | kergoth`home | ibot: bipolar? |
| 06:07:19 | | mallory: i don't know |
| 06:07:19 | Mallory | ibot: quake? |
| 06:07:23 | tux_mike | anyone know what they do for the menus in Qtopia Apps? |
| 06:07:33 | kergoth`home | Amigaman: go to bipolars feed at that url |
| 06:07:41 | treke | tux_mike : What do you mean? |
| 06:07:43 | kergoth`home | tux_mike: yes. what about them? |
| 06:07:45 | kergoth`home | heh |
| 06:07:47 | Amigaman | kergoth : ok .. thanks. |
| 06:07:53 | kergoth`home | Amigaman: np |
| 06:07:54 | tux_mike | what widgets do they use? |
| 06:08:07 | treke | QMenuBar I thinl |
| 06:08:14 | tux_mike | I need a file menu and an add/edit button |
| 06:09:02 | tux_mike | i hate how few widgets qdesigner uses |
| 06:09:13 | Fastolfe | The unusability of the Z over the internet is overwhelming :)) |
| 06:09:14 | Amigaman | kergoth : Sorry, I cant find the file there either.. closest I saw was "qipkg" but it seems a bit small. |
| 06:09:37 | treke | tux_mike : http://doc.trolltech.com/2.3/qmenubar.html |
| 06:09:44 | kergoth`home | Amigaman: doh, wrong url again. lol... |
| 06:09:45 | MSpin | Fastolfe: yeah, but still...it's a first:) |
| 06:09:49 | ljp | Fastolfe: don't tell me your nowhere near your Z! |
| 06:09:57 | Amigaman | heh |
| 06:09:59 | tux_mike | yah, im heading there now (i keep my files on my own server for speed) |
| 06:10:36 | Fastolfe | ljp: I was playing with MSpin's :)) |
| 06:10:52 | tux_mike | i just wish QT Designer used some of these objects |
| 06:10:53 | ljp | that's crazy! |
| 06:10:56 | ljp | :) |
| 06:10:58 | Fastolfe | sure is |
| 06:11:03 | MSpin | hehe |
| 06:11:16 | MSpin | sorry guys, the redirector is off;) |
| 06:11:43 | Fastolfe | NA NA NA NA |
| 06:11:44 | Fastolfe | :) |
| 06:12:58 | kergoth`home | Amigaman: try http://qpe.sf.net/packages/ipaq/ in unstable/ |
| 06:14:12 | Amigaman | kergoth : Ok I see two packages, I install both? |
| 06:14:51 | kergoth`home | Amigaman: yes, iirc |
| 06:15:09 | Amigaman | kergoth : thanks for the help.. I'll give it a shot.. |
| 06:15:29 | kergoth`home | Amigaman: np |
| 06:18:17 | Fastolfe | so, can somebody shed some light on that stereo sound business of mine ? |
| 06:21:38 | Fastolfe | oh duh me |
| 06:26:10 | Fastolfe | Lady Nicotine is sweet-talking me. brb |
| 06:27:11 | Mallory | clear |
| 06:29:27 | Mallory | grrr |
| 06:29:33 | Mallory | "/etc/inetd.conf" is busy |
| 06:29:37 | Mallory | I need lsof |
| 06:30:30 | Fastolfe | ah! bug in the sound driver :((( |
| 06:30:38 | Fastolfe | DAMMIT I DON'T BELIEVE IT ! |
| 06:31:06 | kergoth` | eh |
| 06:31:10 | kergoth` | that sucks. |
| 06:31:28 | Fastolfe | fires off a flame mail |
| 06:33:55 | ljp | what's your bug? |
| 06:35:09 | Fastolfe | The old SNDCTL_DSP_STEREO ioctl takes 0 for mono and 1 for stereo, and the new SNDCTL_DSP_CHANNELS takes 1 for mono and 2 for stereo. The kernel handles the latter like the former (they mix the 2 cases) |
| 06:35:53 | ljp | really? |
| 06:36:14 | Fastolfe | yeah, and the beautiful thing is, my prog still doesn't work correctly :( |
| 06:36:37 | Amigaman | Hi again.. I insalled quake.. but it tells me I need the "registered version to use modified games" and refers me back to the web page that Ive seen.. (and has no info) |
| 06:36:44 | Amigaman | anyone got any ideas? |
| 06:36:53 | ljp | that's on /dev/dsp? I wonder if that even exists on the mono input |
| 06:36:58 | Mallory | Did you install the pak's? |
| 06:37:00 | Fastolfe | no no, it's output |
| 06:37:12 | Fastolfe | it's only mono on input |
| 06:37:15 | Amigaman | Mallory : I installed quake and data |
| 06:37:28 | Mallory | ryan:~# ls -la /usr/share/games/quake/idsw/pak* |
| 06:37:28 | Mallory | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 18689235 Jan 22 2000 /usr/share/games/quake/idsw/pak0.pak |
| 06:37:28 | Mallory | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 34257856 Nov 21 21:06 /usr/share/games/quake/idsw/pak1.pak |
| 06:37:30 | Mallory | (my desktop) |
| 06:37:45 | Amigaman | Mallory : i'll take a look |
| 06:38:52 | Amigaman | Mallory : there's no /usr/share/games directory |
| 06:39:29 | Amigaman | Mallory : so apart from the two packages that I installed via the package manager, I need to do some additional installing..? |
| 06:41:00 | Mallory | <Mallory> (my desktop) |
| 06:41:06 | Mallory | That was a desktop quake installation. |
| 06:41:16 | Mallory | The *.pak files are the actual game layout that you get when you purchase the game. |
| 06:41:20 | Amigaman | oh |
| 06:41:37 | Amigaman | like wad's |
| 06:41:48 | treke | similar |
| 06:42:02 | Amigaman | so handheld quake doesnt actually come with the paks |
| 06:42:08 | Amigaman | i thought it did, oops.. |
| 06:42:12 | treke | no you have to buy them :) |
| 06:42:19 | Amigaman | hehe |
| 06:42:34 | Amigaman | any alternatives? |
| 06:42:39 | treke | nope |
| 06:42:47 | Amigaman | so its only "open source" so to speak |
| 06:42:55 | treke | oh its open source |
| 06:42:57 | Mallory | aha! No libz installed (why I can't use fbvncserver) |
| 06:43:12 | Amigaman | treke : yeah.. but no levels |
| 06:43:14 | treke | the data just isnt available (textures,sounds) |
| 06:43:15 | Mallory | What packages on sourceforge has those again? |
| 06:43:43 | Mallory | (Note: That should probably be a package dependancy.) |
| 06:43:53 | Amigaman | treke : they'd be huge.. I dont think theres any space on the Zaurus for it |
| 06:44:08 | Amigaman | treke: A symbolic link to a cf card would work..? |
| 06:44:16 | treke | sure that would work |
| 06:44:19 | Mallory | Yup |
| 06:44:31 | treke | I bet quake1 could be installed in ram |
| 06:44:45 | Amigaman | ok, so i'll use the /usr/share/games/..... path |
| 06:44:52 | Amigaman | I installed the two packages in ram |
| 06:46:19 | Mallory | fastolfe, you are da man :) |
| 06:46:26 | Fastolfe | I da man ? |
| 06:46:31 | Fastolfe | I da man for what ? |
| 06:46:32 | Amigaman | thanks for the help guys.. |
| 06:46:40 | Mallory | the new fbvncserver is nice |
| 06:46:47 | Fastolfe | thanks |
| 06:46:59 | Fastolfe | starts charging $20 a pop |
| 06:47:07 | ljp | way rad... heh |
| 06:47:11 | Fastolfe | it's too popular to pass making a kwik buck |
| 06:47:13 | Fastolfe | :) |
| 06:47:16 | Mallory | I'd pay it |
| 06:47:27 | ljp | sell it to Sharp |
| 06:47:31 | Fastolfe | no you wouldn't because I would never sell it |
| 06:47:39 | Fastolfe | ljp: it's GPL, I think not :) |
| 06:47:55 | ljp | ok. sell them a license |
| 06:47:58 | ljp | ") |
| 06:48:05 | Fastolfe | I'll sell them ice creams |
| 06:48:59 | Fastolfe | That driver is disgusting, I'm losing so much time doing that stupid routine when it should take 30 minutes |
| 06:49:49 | ljp | who wrote that driver? |
| 06:49:54 | Fastolfe | dare I say .. |
| 06:50:22 | Fastolfe | As a Lineo employee I have no comment |
| 06:50:24 | ljp | heh never mind |
| 06:52:28 | Mallory | Fasolfe: nmap doesn't kill the server anymore either :) |
| 06:52:44 | Fastolfe | yeah, I fixed that specifically |
| 06:53:43 | Fastolfe | the early "client gone" bailout would happen before the client structure was done initializing, therefore the server would free bogus pointers and puke |
| 06:53:53 | Mallory | # cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail |
| 06:53:53 | Mallory | 0 |
| 06:53:56 | Fastolfe | the guy who made that library is a moron |
| 06:54:02 | Fastolfe | lol |
| 06:54:04 | Fastolfe | heh |
| 06:54:05 | Mallory | One problem about doing crypto-intensive operations on an embedded device :) |
| 06:54:21 | Mallory | Who does the kernels? Linoe? |
| 06:54:23 | Mallory | Lineo? |
| 06:54:28 | Fastolfe | As a Lineo employee I have no comment |
| 06:54:35 | Mallory | They should try to feed the entropy pool from the touch screen. |
| 06:54:38 | Fastolfe | As a Lineo employee I have no comment |
| 06:54:41 | Mallory | I'm not asking for a comment, I'm makin ga suggestion. :) |
| 06:54:53 | Fastolfe | I'll pass the suggestion along |
| 06:54:55 | Mallory | Don't worry, we all have people we work with that are morons. :) |
| 06:55:01 | Fastolfe | I'll pass the suggestion along |
| 06:55:03 | Fastolfe | As a Lineo employee I have no comment |
| 06:55:15 | Fastolfe | (morons) |
| 06:55:16 | Fastolfe | :) |
| 06:55:17 | Mallory | I know Robert Love has a patch that feeds from network devices, that may be nice for those of us with Socket cards. :) |
| 06:55:26 | Mallory | </LINEO> |
| 06:55:34 | Fastolfe | heh :) |
| 06:55:57 | Fastolfe | really, I do pass suggestions along :) |
| 06:56:15 | Fastolfe | trouble is, I know what they do with it |
| 06:56:21 | Mallory | heh |
| 06:56:24 | Mallory | bit bucket? |
| 06:56:55 | Fastolfe | well, the toilet is always out of paper and there are all those nice printouts on the printer |
| 06:57:04 | MSpin | hrm, what kernel patch has the jffs2 shiznat in it? |
| 06:57:06 | Mallory | -rw-r--r-- 1 rwm rwm 1394605 Feb 6 01:58 ssh.ORIG |
| 06:57:06 | Mallory | -rw-r--r-- 1 rwm rwm 801792 Feb 6 01:59 ssh.STRIPPED |
| 06:57:14 | Fastolfe | lol |
| 06:57:15 | Fastolfe | yeah |
| 06:57:22 | Mallory | It would be nice if the maintainer did this :) |
| 06:57:39 | Fastolfe | I had a package that was 8M without stripping and 340K after ;) |
| 06:57:49 | NeoTron | Mallory: pretty big |
| 06:58:01 | Fastolfe | well, if it exports a lot of symbols ... |
| 06:58:18 | NeoTron | : 0 neotron@stellar ls -l /usr/bin/ssh eligo/qtopia/ |
| 06:58:18 | NeoTron | 224 -rws--x--x 1 root root 225068 Dec 3 22:16 /usr/bin/ssh* |
| 06:58:19 | NeoTron | gesh |
| 06:58:23 | NeoTron | what ssh is that you have? |
| 06:58:38 | Mallory | The openssh 3.0 from sourceforge |
| 06:59:08 | Mallory | No scp either |
| 06:59:15 | Mallory | (In this) |
| 07:02:53 | Fastolfe | anybody knows where I can find mpg123 ? |
| 07:03:22 | treke | http://www.mpg123.de/ |
| 07:03:28 | Fastolfe | I mean for the Z |
| 07:03:40 | treke | wouldnt madplay be a better bet? |
| 07:03:54 | Fastolfe | I just need a simple app that does stereo correctly to strace |
| 07:04:02 | Fastolfe | the Qtopia media player crap is not helpful |
| 07:04:08 | treke | true |
| 07:05:09 | treke | http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/unstable/packages/armv4l/madplay_0.14.2b-1_arm.ipk |
| 07:05:57 | Fastolfe | ooh it's a 'paq package |
| 07:05:59 | Fastolfe | k thanks |
| 07:06:20 | treke | it tries installing to /usr though |
| 07:06:34 | Fastolfe | hmm |
| 07:07:09 | Fastolfe | seems to work anyway :)) |
| 07:07:33 | treke | didnt think you zaurus fellows could write to /usr :) |
| 07:07:40 | Fastolfe | you can't :) |
| 07:07:45 | Fastolfe | lemme check where it put it |
| 07:08:27 | Fastolfe | this is impressive |
| 07:08:48 | Fastolfe | I think it *came* with madplay, because it is in /usr/bin which is RO |
| 07:11:30 | Mallory | Yeah, these stripped ones are working just fine and they're half the size |
| 07:12:13 | Mallory | Anybody know who "patrickheim" is? |
| 07:12:22 | ljp | heh /usr/bin is now writable |
| 07:12:51 | Mallory | /dev/mtdblock1 11.2M 7.0M 3.6M 66% /home |
| 07:12:56 | Mallory | My Z thanks you strip! |
| 07:16:48 | Mallory | yay, Qtopia Desktop actually syncs now. |
| 07:19:19 | Amigaman | Does anyone know for sure where the quake pak files should be installed to use quake on Zarus.. I tried /usr/share/games/quake/idsw/ |
| 07:36:24 | mark_ | JasonNJ: hi there. I'm an opie developer - I've heard someone has ported a HP48 emulator for the contest? |
| 07:38:28 | Amigaman | ooh i got it to work |
| 07:40:26 | Mallory | Good stuff |
| 07:51:53 | Amigaman | :) |
| 07:52:06 | Amigaman | It doesnt need a pak from the commerical version |
| 08:01:37 | Mallory | Hmm, I'm looking at dmesg from my Z... is this normal? |
| 08:01:44 | Mallory | Fixing up bad data abort at 02004de0 |
| 08:01:45 | Mallory | pgd = c0fd0000 |
| 08:01:45 | Mallory | *pgd = c05fc001, *pmd = c05fc001, *pte = c0c4e01f, *ppte = c0c4eaae |
| 08:01:45 | Mallory | check backup battery ! |
| 08:02:16 | Fastolfe | kernel bug |
| 08:02:30 | Fastolfe | brb nicotine |
| 08:02:38 | Mallory | Well I figgured as such :) |
| 08:02:48 | Mallory | I was wondering more if it was known or if it's only me. |
| 08:27:18 | NeoTron | time to go to bed |
| 10:13:59 | scanline | is away: ZzZzZzzzzzz |
| 13:33:48 | MazterVIP | is anyone running qtopia desktop under linux? |
| 13:36:36 | Triskelios | qtopia only runs under linux :Þ |
| 13:37:39 | Mallory | No, there are Windows version of the Qtopia Desktop (QT Paltop Center, whatever you call it) |
| 13:37:51 | Triskelios | oh that thing |
| 13:38:15 | Mallory | yeah, that's what he said :) |
| 13:38:25 | Mallory | Master: Yes I am. I didn't work until the latest ROMs. |
| 13:38:36 | Mallory | I'm not using the USB connection though, I"m using the Ethernet connection from my CF Ethernet card. |
| 13:41:48 | MazterVIP | Mallory: ok...im about to sync a Ipaq using serial interface...that should work..but i think it need a bit of tweeking =) |
| 13:52:15 | Mallory | Good luck. I'd be no help :) |
| 13:54:58 | bipolar | is back (gone 14:51:38) |
| 14:02:53 | MazterVIP | is away: I'm busy |
| 14:20:16 | Nightvisi | anyone syncing with windows 2000/XP with ROM 1.11 or 1.10? |
| 14:27:52 | MazterVIP | is back (gone 00:24:59) |
| 14:38:26 | finkployd | Nightvisi: Yes |
| 14:38:35 | finkployd | I'm using winxp |
| 14:45:15 | Mallory-Z | Wave for the camera! |
| 14:45:49 | Mallory-Z | whee... |
| 14:48:29 | Mallory | http://www.dir-t.org/gallery/zaurus/aba?full=1 |
| 14:50:22 | finkployd | heh, cool |
| 14:52:26 | sMiles | morning all |
| 14:52:40 | mandrake | morning |
| 14:52:47 | mandrake | I have so much to do today :) |
| 14:55:11 | bipolar | Damnit! I need more flash! |
| 14:57:01 | finkployd | pihekh1 |
| 14:57:11 | finkployd | oops wrong window |
| 14:57:30 | bipolar | finkployd: Now you need to change your password.... :) |
| 14:57:44 | finkployd | no, that is actually a poker program I'm writing :) |
| 14:57:56 | bipolar | hehehe |
| 14:58:03 | finkployd | it stands for "poker, I hardly even know her" |
| 14:58:22 | finkployd | (I have a bad sense of humor) |
| 14:58:28 | Mallory | I thought it was a Pokemon reference. |
| 14:58:31 | Mallory | I was about to say "god bless you" |
| 15:02:03 | Twiun | Howdy peeps |
| 15:06:21 | kergoth`work | mornin |
| 15:07:28 | roge99_sleep | is back (gone 10:43:24) |
| 15:07:50 | roge99 | mornin |
| 15:14:04 | roge99 | mornin jason |
| 15:14:31 | bipolar | roge99: hello |
| 15:14:38 | roge99 | hey bipolar |
| 15:15:09 | bipolar | Could someone please tell me how the Zaurus uses it's non volitile ramdisk? I want to emulate that on my iPaq now that support is there for it. |
| 15:16:07 | roge99 | bipolar: cramfs is a ro fs |
| 15:16:35 | bipolar | roge99: Right, but what FS does the ramdisk use? |
| 15:16:47 | roge99 | ?? |
| 15:16:57 | kergoth`work | bipolar: minix, on a mtd emulation layer |
| 15:17:00 | kergoth`work | bipolar: iirc |
| 15:17:08 | tux_mike | minix? |
| 15:17:10 | finkployd | what is the largest capacity SD card you can get? |
| 15:17:24 | bipolar | kergoth`work: thats strange. |
| 15:17:33 | Nightvisi | 256 will come out in MArch for $199 |
| 15:17:38 | tux_mike | finkployd: right now 128 |
| 15:17:39 | kergoth`work | kergoth`work: no, im wrong, its just ext2 |
| 15:17:41 | kergoth`work | heh |
| 15:17:42 | Nightvisi | right now it's 128mb |
| 15:17:49 | finkployd | tux_mike: Thanks |
| 15:18:07 | bipolar | kergoth: we'll I think i'll use jffs2, thankuverymuch. :) |
| 15:18:47 | roge99 | kergoth`work: isnt /dev minix and /home ext2 |
| 15:18:49 | kergoth`work | bipolar: your nvrd driver emulates an mtd? |
| 15:18:54 | bipolar | Is there a dir structure I can look at? |
| 15:18:59 | bipolar | kergoth`work: I think so. |
| 15:19:06 | kergoth`work | roge99: yes |
| 15:19:22 | roge99 | kergoth: and both are ramdisks right |
| 15:19:24 | finkployd | boy, the Z doesn't like me having two seperate desktops that I sync with |
| 15:19:45 | finkployd | First it created duplicated of all my address book entries, then deleted all of them on both the desktop and the Z |
| 15:19:56 | kergoth`work | roge99: yes. however, i dont think /dev and /var are nonvolitile |
| 15:19:57 | Fluxwerk | any gaim users here? |
| 15:20:04 | bipolar | Fluxwerk: me |
| 15:20:06 | finkployd | Fluxwerk: and me |
| 15:20:16 | fiferboy | Fluxwerk: me |
| 15:20:16 | Fluxwerk | bipolar: are you signed on? |
| 15:20:21 | bipolar | Fluxwerk: yes |
| 15:20:24 | Fluxwerk | hrmmm |
| 15:20:29 | bipolar | Fluxwerk: TOC and Yahoo |
| 15:20:40 | fiferboy | Fluxwerk: I'm using gabber right now... |
| 15:20:43 | Fluxwerk | gaim isn't signing on for me this morning |
| 15:20:50 | finkployd | I'm on OSCAR, ICQ, and Jabber |
| 15:21:08 | Fluxwerk | gaim would be a nice zaurus addition now that I think about it |
| 15:21:13 | tux_mike | Fluxwerk: nor is everybuddy |
| 15:21:22 | finkployd | only it's GTK |
| 15:21:45 | Fluxwerk | tux_mike: odd sutff |
| 15:21:49 | Fluxwerk | stuff even |
| 15:21:53 | bipolar | Fluxwerk: there is KinkattaLite for TOC, and theKompany has a jabber app. |
| 15:22:03 | tux_mike | prolly more of aol's horse crap |
| 15:22:06 | Fluxwerk | yeah |
| 15:22:08 | Fluxwerk | probably |
| 15:22:48 | fiferboy | Any news on syncing the new ROMs in Linux? |
| 15:23:38 | roge99 | kergoth`work: i thought that only the initrd.bin cramfs filesystem was the non volitle one |
| 15:23:55 | Fluxwerk | wow aim for linux last updated aug 01, they are on the ball :) |
| 15:24:04 | bipolar | kergoth`work: the nvrd only makes a block device. :\ |
| 15:24:26 | roge99 | kergoth`work: everything else is in ram right ? |
| 15:25:16 | roge99 | fiferboy: what are you trying to sync with |
| 15:27:59 | kergoth`work | bipolar: so you need a standard filesystem.. not jffs2. minix, ext2, what have you |
| 15:28:10 | kergoth`work | roge99: yes everything else is in ram |
| 15:28:18 | roge99 | thx |
| 15:28:33 | roge99 | bbl off to work ! |
| 15:29:05 | bipolar | kergoth`work: yeah. But there is a mtdram driver too. I'd like the compression and journaling. :) |
| 15:29:19 | kergoth`work | bipolar: of course |
| 15:29:31 | kergoth`work | bipolar: we use mtdram in the z for /home |
| 15:29:40 | kergoth`work | brb |
| 15:29:42 | bipolar | kergoth`work: cool |
| 15:30:05 | bipolar | kergoth`work: what are the module params that are used when it is loaded? |
| 15:36:19 | kergoth`work | bipolar: its built in monolithically, and the mem addr depends on the heap size.. |
| 15:36:54 | cpenguin_work | is back (gone 14:45:26) |
| 15:37:31 | bipolar | kergoth`work: so it uses whatever is not already alocated. Whatever is left after mem=20? |
| 15:38:18 | kergoth`work | bipolar: yes |
| 15:38:23 | kergoth`meeting | bbiab |
| 15:49:47 | finkployd | is there an AOL IM client for Zaurus? |
| 15:49:51 | CoreySaway | Is there a way to sync with Qtopia desktop (Windows or Linux version, but I'm running the windows version at the moment) via network instead of serial/USB? |
| 15:50:52 | finkployd-zaurus | heh cool |
| 15:51:12 | finkployd-zaurus | zic is nice |
| 15:54:48 | Fluxwerk | no aim clent yet |
| 15:54:56 | Fluxwerk | client even |
| 15:56:18 | peanut | did you see the beans were spilled on the mailing list about the new roms |
| 15:57:16 | finkployd-zaurus | how about jabber? |
| 15:57:36 | peanut | any news on lineo's driver? |
| 16:00:08 | peanut | anyone dialing over irda |
| 16:00:51 | bipolar | finkployd-zaurus: TheKompany.com sells a jabber client |
| 16:01:48 | BigBoss | yes, and it is awesome :) |
| 16:02:01 | peanut | what type of credit cards do you take |
| 16:02:05 | BigBoss | all of them |
| 16:02:08 | BigBoss | I told you that the other day |
| 16:02:14 | peanut | you didn't tell me that.. |
| 16:02:20 | peanut | unless of course i wasn't listening.. |
| 16:02:27 | BigBoss | yes I did, but I was late answering from your question :) |
| 16:02:32 | peanut | ahhh.. |
| 16:02:33 | bipolar | trys to get mtdram running on his ipaq... |
| 16:02:37 | peanut | hehehe.. |
| 16:02:56 | finkployd-zaurus | it works ok on 1.10? |
| 16:03:30 | bipolar | finkployd-zaurus: It should work on anything. It will work in Opie on the iPaq too. :) |
| 16:03:36 | finkployd-zaurus | cool |
| 16:03:43 | peanut | well, i guess since i bugged you to make it 49.95 i should buy it.. |
| 16:03:44 | peanut | oh.. |
| 16:03:50 | peanut | one more suggestion.. |
| 16:04:03 | peanut | put a little note as so which (in your case all) credit cards you accept |
| 16:04:13 | peanut | on your checkout page |
| 16:04:42 | peanut | how much space do all of the apps take installed? |
| 16:04:51 | Hellaenergy | "Hi Everybody!" - Dr. Marvin Menroe |
| 16:04:54 | peanut | slow.. |
| 16:06:05 | peanut | damn that as a slow checkout.. |
| 16:06:20 | finkployd-zaurus | wonders how long his battery will last with this wireless card |
| 16:06:42 | tux_mike | hrm... |
| 16:07:14 | Fluxwerk | what is the best cf network to get right now, and is there a combo wire/less one? |
| 16:07:24 | tux_mike | anyone know anything about RTP patches and linux? |
| 16:07:40 | tux_mike | Fluxwerk: no combo, too many components |
| 16:08:05 | Fluxwerk | yeah, figured as much |
| 16:08:12 | Fluxwerk | so that's alot of cash for both |
| 16:08:14 | peanut | hrmm.. |
| 16:08:50 | peanut | thinks they will all install to ram on 1.11 |
| 16:09:06 | finkployd-zaurus | I am using D-link wireless now. seems to work ok |
| 16:09:09 | peanut | anyone here using sd/mmc cards |
| 16:09:16 | peanut | has dlink, works great |
| 16:09:19 | Fluxwerk | Hellaenergy: that's Dr. Nick silly |
| 16:09:21 | peanut | blocks headphone and stylus though.. |
| 16:09:30 | BigBoss | peanut: the checkout has to do with the speed of the CC authorization system |
| 16:09:38 | peanut | BigBoss: i know.. its slow.. |
| 16:09:45 | BigBoss | the whole suite is probably between 1 and 2 mb |
| 16:09:52 | BigBoss | it is usually pretty fast, maybe 10 seconds |
| 16:10:47 | finkployd-zaurus | peanut: true |
| 16:11:08 | rospahr | can anyone explain the diff between 110 and rom 1.03? |
| 16:11:33 | tux_mike | rospahr: sharp has a changelog |
| 16:11:36 | tux_mike | sorta |
| 16:11:36 | Fluxwerk | alot of added features |
| 16:12:33 | rospahr | oh ok thanks |
| 16:12:36 | Fluxwerk | 110 is nice |
| 16:12:39 | rospahr | will look for the change log |
| 16:13:10 | finkployd | hmmm, I'm still not happy with the battery meter |
| 16:13:36 | peanut | anyway.. is anyone using sd/mmc cards |
| 16:13:37 | finkployd | "Full" and "1/4" really don't help when those are your only settings |
| 16:13:45 | peanut | is thinking of using that to augment his internal storage |
| 16:13:53 | tux_mike | rospahr: it's not complete, it's on the download page... they left a lot off |
| 16:13:59 | Fluxwerk | anyone know if we will be able to bring the developer model up to 64meg like the final product? |
| 16:14:00 | peanut | and using the compact flash to support the dlink,my microdrive, etc, etc |
| 16:14:03 | Nightvisi | peanut: I am |
| 16:14:05 | peanut | Fluxwerk: no |
| 16:14:13 | tux_mike | there may be more info in the readme that i didnt read |
| 16:14:13 | peanut | Nightvisi: which brand/capacity |
| 16:14:25 | Nightvisi | peanut: I'm using sd/MMC card |
| 16:14:27 | peanut | 1.10/11 is very nice.. |
| 16:14:34 | finkployd | Fluxwerk: People do it with ipaq's I imagine someone might figure out how to do it with the zaurus |
| 16:14:51 | finkployd | battery is dying already |
| 16:14:53 | finkployd | crap |
| 16:15:02 | finkployd | that was less than one hour |
| 16:15:08 | Fluxwerk | peanut: didn't think so, not that it's such a big deal, 32meg for an extra $150 though |
| 16:15:10 | Nightvisi | simpletech 64mb |
| 16:15:24 | peanut | 150 bucks for 32mb? |
| 16:15:24 | kergoth`work | re |
| 16:15:29 | peanut | kergoth! |
| 16:15:33 | tux_mike | hey ker |
| 16:15:51 | Fluxwerk | peanut: reatil will be $550 right, developer version is $399 |
| 16:15:51 | Nightvisi | 64mb sd/MMC cost me $70 |
| 16:16:19 | peanut | developer is 399, i can't comment on prosumer model |
| 16:16:27 | peanut | 70 is more my speed |
| 16:16:47 | Nightvisi | I got it here in NY at a store called Micro Center |
| 16:18:14 | Hellaenergy | Fluwerk: Your right :) |
| 16:18:31 | Fluxwerk | Hellaenergy: I know my Simpsons ;0 |
| 16:19:04 | Hellaenergy | Fluxwerk: I know, I love em too. |
| 16:19:08 | finkployd | I hope there is some improvement in the battery technology in the future... |
| 16:19:38 | finkployd | I'm kinda used to a palm that goes for months without needing new batteries (or recharged, in the case of the newer ones) |
| 16:19:43 | Fluxwerk | the backlight sucks alot of juice, just gotta pump it down a notch |
| 16:20:03 | finkployd | 45 minutes with a wireless card is not really impressive |
| 16:20:19 | Hellaenergy | I wish there was not so much glare on the Z's screen |
| 16:22:11 | kergoth`work | hah. i just booted a jffs2 version of 1.11 |
| 16:22:37 | Hellaenergy | kergoth`work: good job! |
| 16:22:51 | Hellaenergy | Now start writing :) |
| 16:23:04 | dkl | Hellaenergy: the IPAQ screen protectors seem to help alleviate some of the screen glare |
| 16:23:07 | kergoth`work | what am i writing? lol |
| 16:24:12 | Hellaenergy | dkl: thanks for the advise; I'm going blind * |
| 16:24:56 | dkl | Hellaenergy: plus I wont use a PDA without a screen protector ever since I scratched my old Agenda and it annoyed me to no end |
| 16:25:23 | Hellaenergy | The cover seems to be enough but your right I should get one too |
| 16:25:26 | kergoth`work | dkl: wheres a good place to pick up a good screen protector? I still havent gotten one |
| 16:25:39 | kergoth`work | i love the Z display cover. lifesaver. |
| 16:25:45 | Hellaenergy | Micro Center? |
| 16:26:15 | Hellaenergy | kergoth`work: where are you? |
| 16:26:16 | peanut | the 55 has a much better battery |
| 16:26:33 | Hellaenergy | peanut: what is it made of? |
| 16:26:36 | dkl | kergoth`work: I got mine at my local Best Buy. Just buy the ones that say IPAQ and trim a small amount off the lower end before applying. |
| 16:27:00 | kergoth`work | dkl: k. hows visability through it? |
| 16:27:15 | finkployd | peanut: Can we lowly 50 users pop in a 55 battery? |
| 16:27:32 | peanut | can't say |
| 16:27:32 | dkl | kergoth`work: It seems to make the screen a little darker but not enough to be a problem. Otherwise visibility is fine. |
| 16:27:41 | peanut | ask jason.. |
| 16:28:18 | peanut | gets ready to install thekompany apps |
| 16:28:36 | dkl | peanut: so the consumer version if different in more than just memory, battery also. The lady at the LWE booth said that extra batteries will be obtainable when the consumer units ship. |
| 16:28:50 | dkl | I suppose both units will be able to use the extra batteries. |
| 16:29:33 | kergoth`work | I want a desktop cradle with the ability to charge a standalone Z battery while charging the Z itself.. dual charger, like those cell phone chargers. hehe. |
| 16:29:35 | finkployd | I'm just hoping the new battery will be usable in the 5000. |
| 16:30:00 | finkployd | kergoth`work: If this guy takes off, I imagine all sorts of cool accessories like that will pop out |
| 16:30:51 | kergoth`work | finkployd: i'm sure. looking forward to it. I want the colored display covers jason was alluding to |
| 16:30:56 | finkployd | And I'm pretty sure it will take off unless Sharp does something silly like charge > $600 for it or ship it with the current windows desktop software :) |
| 16:30:56 | peanut | dkl: the cradle is different as well |
| 16:31:34 | dkl | hmm, If the differences become too great, I may be making another purchase in the future :) |
| 16:32:06 | finkployd | I still predict that hundreds of the 5000s will be on ebay next month :) |
| 16:32:09 | peanut | the new cradle will work with the 50 |
| 16:32:47 | finkployd | if the new cradle and battery work with the 50, then I'll keep it. I can use use SD for any storage I like due to the RAM issue |
| 16:32:53 | gillus | cd |
| 16:33:10 | gillus | oups sorry, wrong focus |
| 16:33:29 | Fluxwerk | finkployd: exactly, I can't imagine the design is gonna be THAT different |
| 16:34:04 | finkployd | any word on why the ROM hasn't been officially announced yet? |
| 16:34:26 | peanut | the intellisync driver doesn't work |
| 16:34:28 | finkployd | and is Jason going to get fired for giving it out on his first day on the job? :) |
| 16:34:41 | peanut | i doubt it |
| 16:36:17 | peanut | my z is dirty |
| 16:37:17 | kergoth`work | i need to clean off my screen |
| 16:37:31 | peanut | has installed thekompany apps |
| 16:38:06 | peanut | BigBoss: very cool |
| 16:45:18 | rospahr | i was just reading the changelist from romimage 110 and 111. the difference seems to be the ram disk allocation. Does anyone have recommendations as to which one is better and why? |
| 16:46:08 | finkployd | unless you are doing java development, I believe the recommendation is 1.10 |
| 16:46:28 | kergoth`work | rospahr: depends on whether you want more ram or more fs space |
| 16:47:13 | dkl | but more ram is also nice if you keep alot of the non-java apps open at the same time. But most of the time I am only running one thing at a time. |
| 16:47:18 | peanut | thinks 1.11 is the way to go.. |
| 16:47:22 | peanut | use sd/cf if you need space :) |
| 16:47:46 | rospahr | so 1.11 has more ram correct? |
| 16:47:50 | kergoth`work | rospahr: correct |
| 16:47:53 | rospahr | thanks |
| 16:48:16 | kergoth`work | I would use 1.11 if i was actually using my Z actively |
| 16:48:34 | peanut | wait.. you're not using your Z actively? |
| 16:48:41 | kergoth`work | well, not for real use |
| 16:48:48 | kergoth`work | I flash the thing multiple times a day working on OZ |
| 16:49:12 | finkployd | I've only ever run out of ram if I've viewing a huge jpeg |
| 16:49:59 | dkl | the OZ release does not support the SD slot right? |
| 16:50:08 | kergoth`work | it supports it |
| 16:51:13 | dkl | hmm, I thought that part was not open source by Sharp since it had the copy protection issue. And of course Opera. |
| 16:51:23 | kergoth`work | its not open source |
| 16:51:33 | finkployd | The Z does not support the copy protection part of SD |
| 16:51:35 | dkl | so using the OZ release does not mean losing any device specific support? |
| 16:51:36 | kergoth`work | but the module binary and daemon binaries I kept in, and didnt modify the kenrel sufficiently to break it |
| 16:51:41 | kergoth`work | dkl: no |
| 16:51:54 | kergoth`work | dkl: it just doesnt have opera or java, though that may change |
| 16:52:24 | dkl | two things I could probably do without. I mean Konq/embedded works pretty much as well as Opera at this point right? |
| 16:52:25 | finkployd | actually, I would prefer java not be in it =) |
| 16:52:55 | finkployd | The only thing that opera really has over konq is the zoom in/out thing. |
| 16:53:27 | kergoth`work | yep |
| 16:53:50 | finkployd | and it is hard to live without the zoom in/out thing imho :) |
| 16:54:12 | kergoth`work | indeed. you could always rip opera and java out of the sharp rom of course |
| 16:54:12 | kergoth`work | heh |
| 16:54:37 | finkployd | kergoth`work: really? how? Can I rip out the mail client also? |
| 16:54:47 | finkployd | there are a few things in the sharp rom I could do without |
| 16:54:52 | dkl | kergoth`work: is there any documentation to disassembling the romimage sharp puts out to remove unwanted software and remake a new romimage for flashing? |
| 16:55:01 | kergoth`work | finkployd: heh. cp the opera and jvm binaries to the bin/ dir on cf. |
| 16:55:05 | kergoth`work | dkl: no. |
| 16:55:13 | kergoth`work | dkl: however.. |
| 16:55:39 | dkl | With the Agenda we were able to run a prog called uncramfs that would allow us to explode a rom image and remove files then remake the cramfs image |
| 16:56:02 | dkl | of course sharp may not be using cramfs |
| 16:56:06 | kergoth`work | dkl: cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.openzaurus.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/openzaurus co buildroot-oz; cd buildroot-oz; make sharprom sharproot; |
| 16:56:29 | Fluxwerk | bbiab |
| 16:56:41 | kergoth`work | make sharprom will download the 1.02 rom (you can change the url and filename in configs/sharp.mk.inc) and rip it apart into its components |
| 16:56:55 | dkl | ah cool |
| 16:56:55 | kergoth`work | make sharproot will do a mount of the cramfs root filesystem using the loopback device |
| 16:57:07 | finkployd | Sharp appears to be supportive of OZ, is this really the case? |
| 16:57:11 | kergoth`work | finkployd: yes |
| 16:57:18 | finkployd | that is cool |
| 16:57:19 | kergoth`work | finkployd: sharp, lineo, trolltech, all appear to support it |
| 16:57:45 | kergoth`work | finkployd: per recent meetings, openzaurus may become a standard linux base system, we'll see what comes of that |
| 16:57:51 | kergoth`work | brb, actual work |
| 16:57:52 | dkl | I imagine Sharp is more in the hardware side of the business than the software side and is not really turned off by the fact that people may be using a different distro on their devices. |
| 17:03:48 | Mallory | I may play with OpenZaurus sometime soon. |
| 17:04:24 | kergoth`work | k |
| 17:04:48 | Mallory | I'd like to rip out a bunch of stuff and understand how it works more. |
| 17:05:12 | kergoth`work | dkl: after a 'make sharproot' which mounts the sharp initrd in build/sharproot, you can cp -a build/sharproot/* root/; and make alterations to the root fs in root/, then ln -s root root_cramfs; bin/build.sh; to create a new initrd.bin using cramfs. |
| 17:07:04 | dkl | kergoth`work: that sounds like what I needed to know. So then you can rebuild a new ROMIMAGE file using the old zImage file and the new initrd? |
| 17:07:29 | dkl | Also should this still work with the new 1.10/11 roms? |
| 17:08:57 | kergoth`work | dkl: it should |
| 17:09:18 | kergoth`work | dkl: the components necessary to build a 'romimage' file arent operational right now.. OZ isnt distributed as a 'romimage' anymore |
| 17:10:15 | dkl | I noticed that some also use a combination of three files 'zImage', 'initrd', and 'bootflag.txt' for updating from a CF card. |
| 17:10:31 | kergoth`work | yes |
| 17:18:45 | BigBoss | so is jason really in here? |
| 17:34:22 | kergoth`work | BigBoss: dont think so, idle for over 2 hours |
| 17:34:24 | kergoth`work | heh |
| 17:34:42 | BigBoss | oh well - I guess he has to work once in a while |
| 17:34:49 | BigBoss | hopefully he won't explode from frustration :) |
| 17:35:19 | kergoth`work | hehe. indeed. |
| 17:35:49 | BigBoss | how is oz 3 coming? |
| 17:40:26 | kergoth`work | Just booted up oz 2.6 using a jffs2 filesystem last night.. worked flawless.. I have some tweaking to do on the filesystem. get rid of all the clutter that was there because the root wasnt writable.. once thats done i'll add a couple features, fix a bug or two, and send you guys a prerelease version to add the copywrite stuff to tKcjabber. Then release comes shortly after. |
| 17:41:08 | BigBoss | very cool |
| 17:41:34 | dkl | kergoth`work: How much of the 16mb flash is actually left after kernel and initrd that could be usable for user space? |
| 17:43:24 | dkl | Anyone know if the Sharp Mobile wireless service at http://www.sharpmobile.com will be similar to what Palm is doing with the i705? |
| 17:43:58 | kergoth`work | dkl: the total is approx 14.5 megs. I could easily fill that up with openzaurus adding various components.. but the advantage is you gain not only space, but also the ability to remove things you dont want |
| 17:43:58 | kergoth`work | heh |
| 17:44:39 | dkl | kergoth`work: so you are saying that 14.5 is free or only 14.5 is accessible due to hardware restrictions? |
| 17:45:51 | BigBoss | dkl: I think it is different - I don't know if the i705 has all the infrasturcture pieces like Aether systems and stuff |
| 17:46:01 | kergoth`work | dkl: 14.5 is the max space for the root filesystem, period |
| 17:46:09 | kergoth`work | dkl: the rest is for kernel and the like |
| 17:46:28 | dkl | ah ok |
| 17:46:32 | dkl | thanks |
| 17:46:56 | dkl | Is there some sort of bootloader in a fixed location also on the flash rom? |
| 17:47:15 | kergoth`work | yes |
| 17:47:43 | kergoth`work | dkl: the next openzaurus will use tim riker's new kernel that has seperate mtd devices for the bootloader, kernel, etc |
| 17:48:05 | dkl | is it write protected to keep accidents from happening by idiots like myself? ;) |
| 17:48:18 | kergoth`work | doubtful |
| 17:48:23 | sean | heh |
| 17:48:28 | kergoth`work | the whole point was to allow writable mtd devices. heh |
| 17:48:31 | Mallory | wow, PC133 ram is only 95MB/s? |
| 17:48:41 | kergoth`work | which is why his new mtd stuff probably wont make it into a commercial sharp rom |
| 17:49:36 | Mallory | ugh, I hate it when BitchX goes haywire |
| 17:50:00 | dkl | kergoth`work: That was one of the scary things with the Agenda that if the bootloader was screwed, you essentially had a brick and just wouldnt want that to happen wth the Zaurus |
| 17:50:21 | kergoth`work | dkl: indeed, if your 'romimage' file got corrupt in the wrong way, you could end up with a bricked Z |
| 17:50:31 | kergoth`work | dkl: since the bootloader is in the beginning of the 'romimage' |
| 17:50:33 | kergoth`work | heh |
| 17:50:37 | dkl | eek |
| 17:50:49 | kergoth`work | or if you shut off the Z during a flash at the exact WRONG time |
| 17:50:51 | kergoth`work | heh |
| 17:51:05 | kergoth`work | which is why OZ doesnt use a 'romimage' anymore, just zImage and initrd to avoid that possibility |
| 17:51:06 | dkl | The bootloader should be a separate less oft updated file IMHO |
| 17:51:10 | kergoth`work | yep |
| 17:51:49 | dkl | Also Sharp should post MD5SUMS for the romimage files if they do not already so you tell if a romimage has been corrupted before applying |
| 17:52:46 | kergoth`work | agreed |
| 17:52:51 | Mallory | second' |
| 17:53:06 | kergoth`work | hey mark_ |
| 17:53:28 | mark_ | hiya kergoth`work :) - just popping in, thought jason may be here :) |
| 17:53:42 | kergoth`work | ah. he's been idle for like 2 hours |
| 17:53:42 | kergoth`work | heh |
| 17:53:59 | mark_ | grrr :) |
| 17:54:03 | mark_ | what time zone does he live? |
| 17:54:26 | bipolar | mark_: New Jersy. EST. |
| 17:54:37 | bipolar | mark_: so it's ~1pm |
| 17:55:09 | mark_ | bipolar: okay, cheers. hmm, i'll be around for the next 4, so hopefully will catch him :) |
| 18:04:28 | mark_ | bipolar: any news on the cvs move to CRL? |
| 18:05:30 | bipolar | mark_: not yet. I think I'll have to wait until I can't login any more to know. :) |
| 18:06:18 | mark_ | bipolar: huh? |
| 18:06:40 | bipolar | mark_: When the server gets moved, pserver login will not work any more. |
| 18:09:29 | mark_ | bipolar: oh right, i get it :( |
| 18:09:33 | mark_ | :) i mean |
| 18:09:49 | bipolar | oh... god..... |
| 18:10:01 | bipolar | www.utilikilts.com |
| 18:10:08 | bipolar | rotflmao |
| 18:10:12 | sean | heh utilikilts rock yo. |
| 18:10:20 | bipolar | lol |
| 18:10:24 | whardier | HI |
| 18:10:30 | bipolar | whardier: hiya |
| 18:10:40 | whardier | hiya |
| 18:10:49 | whardier | long time no mental breakdown bipolar |
| 18:10:56 | kergoth`work | sup whardier |
| 18:10:57 | whardier | how yah been? |
| 18:11:03 | bipolar | whardier: nah... you just missed ot |
| 18:11:16 | whardier | heh |
| 18:13:19 | bipolar | I *need* one of these |
| 18:13:29 | bipolar | lol |
| 18:13:32 | whardier | a mental breakdown? |
| 18:13:42 | bipolar | whardier: no. a utilikilt |
| 18:14:18 | bipolar | whardier: My regular mental breakdown should happen between tonight and friday... |
| 18:14:47 | whardier | hah |
| 18:14:50 | whardier | mine too! |
| 18:14:59 | whardier | we have soo much in common! |
| 18:15:32 | bipolar | whardier: Are you anywhere nead allentown pa? we could have a breakdown together. :) lol |
| 18:15:48 | kergoth`work | wonders if he should leave you two alone |
| 18:16:04 | bipolar | lol |
| 18:17:18 | bipolar | Hey! Is says "A utilikilt can hold an entire six-pack"! |
| 18:17:36 | kergoth`work | hah |
| 18:18:03 | mark_ | grrr this cvs is slow - i did 'cvs up' about 20 mins ago and still nothing come down the line |
| 18:18:09 | bipolar | I need one. Really. I'm geared up to get something crazy anyway.... |
| 18:18:15 | kergoth`work | mark_: cvs for what/ |
| 18:18:26 | mark_ | kergoth`work: opie |
| 18:18:47 | kergoth`work | ah |
| 18:21:52 | whardier | is in alaska |
| 18:21:53 | Mallory | "All improvements added to Opie will be pursued with TrollTech to get them added to Qtopia as well." |
| 18:22:01 | whardier | tonight I will leave back to my home planet |
| 18:22:01 | Mallory | Translation: the -ac Qtopia tree |
| 18:22:02 | Mallory | :) |
| 18:22:23 | kergoth`work | lol..excellent metaphor |
| 18:22:27 | bipolar_lunch | Mallory: where are you reading that? |
| 18:22:36 | bipolar_lunch | ohh |
| 18:22:36 | kergoth`work | bipolar_lunch: the opie announcement i just sent |
| 18:22:37 | bipolar_lunch | :) |
| 18:22:44 | Hellaenergy | If you guys where to vote what app would with right now? |
| 18:22:57 | Hellaenergy | app would be the best.. |
| 18:23:13 | Mallory | the opie announcment, yeah |
| 18:23:17 | kergoth`work | hm did the announcement make it to zaurus-general? i havent seen it come from there yet |
| 18:23:31 | Mallory | nope, I only got it on opie@handhelds.org |
| 18:23:37 | Mallory | Subject: [Zaurus-qtopia] [Fwd: [Opie] [ANNOUNCE] Opie Project] |
| 18:23:47 | Mallory | qpt-devel too |
| 18:24:05 | kergoth`work | k, i'll forward it over to general |
| 18:25:01 | bipolar_lunch | kergoth`work: Don't forget the handhelds lists. |
| 18:25:07 | bipolar_lunch | bbiab |
| 18:25:27 | kergoth`work | bipolar_lunch: which hh lists? |
| 18:26:31 | Hellaenergy | Cheers to OPIE! |
| 18:28:04 | Hellaenergy | This sound stupid but I wish I could develop for the z on windows :~} |
| 18:28:56 | roge99 | Hellaenergy: but windows sucks ;-P |
| 18:29:12 | mandrake | Hellaenergy: why can't you? |
| 18:29:22 | kergoth`work | Hellaenergy: build a crosscompilation toolchain w/ cygwin |
| 18:29:22 | Hellaenergy | Ya but its the fucking platform I use at work |
| 18:29:23 | kergoth`work | heh |
| 18:29:51 | Hellaenergy | Has any one else tried to using Cygwin? |
| 18:30:10 | mandrake | Hellaenergy: it shouldn't be too complicated. |
| 18:30:27 | ep0ch | has everyone else found that Z hangs all the time with v1.11 ROM??? |
| 18:30:35 | Hellaenergy | I don't even know where to start |
| 18:30:43 | Hellaenergy | whats new :) |
| 18:30:44 | mandrake | ep0ch: it's not hanging, it's the same problem I have on my ipaq... qpe is crashing. |
| 18:30:53 | finkployd | I use cygwin, but not for development |
| 18:31:08 | mandrake | ep0ch: a potential fix for that would be to have init responsible for keeping qpe running |
| 18:31:09 | Hellaenergy | I use it too. Its alright. |
| 18:31:10 | ep0ch | yeah it crashes the current app |
| 18:31:14 | finkployd | I'm using 1.10 and I haven't had it hang yet |
| 18:31:26 | roge99 | ep0ch: yea i locked mine up a bunh of timesc |
| 18:31:27 | mandrake | finkployd: happens to me all the time |
| 18:31:35 | mandrake | but then again I am a lot more stressful on my hardware than most people |
| 18:31:36 | Hellaenergy | Im using 1.11 and have not had it hang at all. |
| 18:31:39 | ep0ch | they should fix it asap |
| 18:32:12 | ep0ch | it hangs all the time... its happened about 5 times today... |
| 18:32:21 | finkployd | what do you do that causes to hang? I'll try to duplicate it |
| 18:32:23 | ep0ch | and all i'm using is the console |
| 18:32:39 | ep0ch | finkployd: i use it ;) |
| 18:32:41 | scanline | is back (gone 08:18:42) |
| 18:32:41 | mandrake | finkployd: me or ep0ch? |
| 18:32:42 | mandrake | :) |
| 18:32:47 | finkployd | either |
| 18:32:51 | mandrake | you're not going to be able to duplicate what I'm doing |
| 18:32:55 | mandrake | heh |
| 18:33:02 | mandrake | I'm running my synthesizer on it |
| 18:33:05 | finkployd | ah |
| 18:33:05 | ep0ch | mandrake: we dont wanna know |
| 18:33:12 | ep0ch | synth??? |
| 18:33:16 | ep0ch | soft-synth? |
| 18:33:28 | mandrake | ep0ch: it's the app I entered into the zaurus competition |
| 18:33:33 | mandrake | http://mandrake.net/images/kutabi.jpg |
| 18:33:50 | mandrake | you can listen to demos of it at http://www.cepstral.com/demo |
| 18:33:51 | roge99 | mandrake: isnt qpe started form inittab ? |
| 18:33:58 | mandrake | roge99: not on the ipaq |
| 18:34:03 | roge99 | ahh |
| 18:34:11 | roge99 | mandrake: it is on the Z |
| 18:34:16 | mandrake | roge99: but that's what I did on my ipaq to fix the problem :) |
| 18:34:17 | ep0ch | oh so its not a music synth :( |
| 18:34:26 | mandrake | ep0ch: no, it's speech synthesis. |
| 18:34:31 | finkployd | wow, that is slick |
| 18:34:35 | roge99 | mandrake: although init is screwed on the z ( at least on 1.02) |
| 18:34:42 | finkployd | how much space does it take up? |
| 18:34:50 | mandrake | finkployd: sadly it's not small :) |
| 18:34:56 | finkployd | I imagine :) |
| 18:35:07 | mandrake | finkployd: and you need a compact flash card or other external storage to load voices. |
| 18:35:22 | kergoth`work | roge99: whats wrong with init in 1.02? |
| 18:35:25 | mandrake | but the good news is I have it set up where you can just drop a new compact flash or sd card in with new voices :) |
| 18:35:40 | roge99 | kergoth`work: it ignores the initdefault setting |
| 18:35:46 | roge99 | kergoth`work: for the most part |
| 18:35:49 | mandrake | finkployd: also on the non-consumer (read: developer version) zauruses you need a swap file. |
| 18:35:51 | mark_ | mandrake: how big is a typical voice? |
| 18:35:59 | mandrake | mark_: they can range from 2 mb to 24 mb |
| 18:36:22 | roge99 | kergoth`work: i was setting stuff not to start ( namely qpe ) and start a console instead |
| 18:36:27 | kergoth`work | roge99: the initial runlevel is determined by the bootflag.txt in the romimage |
| 18:36:29 | mark_ | mandrake: ah, thats not too bad |
| 18:36:37 | finkployd | it not a good idea to use a swapfile without the jffs stuff? |
| 18:36:44 | roge99 | kergoth`work: ahh well that explains it |
| 18:36:45 | kergoth`work | roge99: remember, there is an inittab in the rootfs, and there is an inittab in the home filesystem as well |
| 18:36:50 | finkployd | Or whatever the name of the journaling filesystem is |
| 18:37:09 | kergoth`work | roge99: and rc.rofilesys does NOT call 'init q' after mounting the home filesystem to effect the changes you may have made to the inittab in the home filesystem |
| 18:37:16 | mark_ | mandrake: how much is this gonna be selling for? |
| 18:37:46 | roge99 | kergoth`work: well if i commentd qpe out it didn't start |
| 18:38:05 | roge99 | but any other runlevel other that 1 would start it |
| 18:38:28 | Mallory | clear |
| 18:38:34 | roge99 | ( when it wasnt commentd out 0 |
| 18:40:19 | Hellaenergy | What is the difference between the timzones app and the city time app? |
| 18:42:12 | mandrake | mark_: we're looking into that. |
| 18:42:53 | altered | mandrake: which limited domain speech synthesis engine are you using? |
| 18:44:01 | mandrake | altered: ours. |
| 18:44:27 | altered | mandrake: the US English diphone concentration voice sounds alot like Kal. |
| 18:44:56 | mandrake | that's because KAL is our CEO. |
| 18:44:58 | altered | mandrake: you've seen flite, right? (embedded version of the Festival speech synthesis engine) |
| 18:45:05 | mandrake | we also made flite. |
| 18:45:14 | mandrake | although through CMU |
| 18:45:14 | scanline | is away: class |
| 18:45:45 | mandrake | we're still working on compressing the kal diphone voice down to 0.5 megs so it will come with familiar by default. |
| 18:46:12 | mandrake | I wrote a good chunk of the audio routines for flite :) |
| 18:46:24 | mandrake | even though I didn't put my name in the credits |
| 18:46:31 | mandrake | I ported flite to qnx also |
| 18:46:39 | mandrake | (and ALSA) |
| 18:46:45 | Neo|Work | is away: I'm busy |
| 18:46:46 | altered | mandrake: ah... :) well, I only saw Alan Black's name in the source :) |
| 18:46:54 | mandrake | Alan is our CTO |
| 18:46:58 | Neo|Work | is back (gone 00:00:01) |
| 18:47:17 | altered | mandrake: cool, flite is the first thing I put on my Z when I got it :) |
| 18:47:45 | mandrake | so running this app is somewhat like running flite - you still have to make that nasty swapfile madness until the consumer version is out |
| 18:47:58 | mandrake | unless the new rom has sufficiently more ram enabled |
| 18:48:09 | altered | mandrake: hmm... why the need for swap? |
| 18:48:16 | mandrake | QPE takes a lot of ram |
| 18:48:27 | altered | mandrake: ran fine for me even on the initial 1.02 ROM. |
| 18:48:29 | mandrake | and so does synthesizing speech |
| 18:48:41 | mandrake | altered: it would crash my zaurus at least. |
| 18:48:56 | mandrake | you'll notice there's a readme on the flite site about running on the zaurus |
| 18:48:59 | altered | mandrake: ah... worked well for me.. (using the Arm binaries for the compaq) |
| 18:49:08 | mandrake | that explains that you should make a swapfile |
| 18:49:33 | mandrake | hopefully the latest binaries after I fixed the bug with playing mono out a stereo-only device. |
| 18:50:04 | altered | hmm... didn't see a README at http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/flite/index.html |
| 18:50:10 | Hellaenergy | What is the Opie sounds app for? |
| 18:50:36 | mandrake | http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/flite/packed/flite-1.1/ |
| 18:50:48 | mandrake | notice the first thing up there is aREADME.sharp.zaurus.... |
| 18:52:03 | altered | mandrake: ah.. yes, I see... well, if I ever have problems with it, I'll try those instructions. so far I haven't had a problem. |
| 18:52:22 | altered | mandrake: does flite stream the audio yet? |
| 18:52:42 | mandrake | I'm not sure we migrated any of the audio streaming stuff back into flite |
| 18:53:21 | altered | mandrake: seems like that could help with the memory problem :) |
| 18:53:28 | mandrake | anyways, cepstral (the company I work at) is sort of a commercial branch of the LTI at CMU |
| 18:53:48 | altered | mandrake: I don't think I tried synthesizing anything too large... |
| 18:54:33 | mandrake | I've read war and peace through kutabi (the frontend I built for the contest) |
| 18:55:40 | whardier | you know.. boys and girls |
| 18:55:43 | whardier | ESD ROCKS |
| 18:55:46 | altered | mandrake: cool, I started some custom extensions the Qt engine to read widget text with flite :) |
| 18:56:07 | altered | mandrake: but I got side tracked with Stash. |
| 18:58:44 | altered | whardier: Electro-static discharge? or Elightenment Sound Deamon? |
| 18:59:01 | whardier | BOTH! |
| 18:59:16 | whardier | I like having esd on the Zaurus |
| 18:59:18 | whardier | heh |
| 18:59:26 | whardier | itmakes me soooo happyyy |
| 18:59:35 | |ep0ch| | wots it do? |
| 18:59:40 | altered | whardier: but Qtopia doesn't use it :) |
| 18:59:48 | whardier | altered: oooh but itcan |
| 19:00:10 | whardier | is gonna add that to the main libs |
| 19:00:12 | whardier | for Opie |
| 19:00:23 | altered | whardier: that sounds like a good idea to me.. software mixing? |
| 19:00:27 | whardier | pretty much |
| 19:00:34 | whardier | I was using it as a portable 802.11b walkman |
| 19:00:35 | mandrake | it's latent software mixing |
| 19:00:45 | whardier | or as a portable remote mic monitoring system |
| 19:00:46 | altered | whardier: any idea if the sound hardware on the Z is full duplex? |
| 19:01:04 | ljp_work | altered: no fd |
| 19:01:10 | mandrake | sad |
| 19:01:18 | mandrake | it'd be a lot more useful FD |
| 19:01:29 | mandrake | I was hoping to add speech controls to kutabi |
| 19:01:39 | ljp_work | it'd be more useful if the driver code did suk rocks |
| 19:01:52 | altered | so much for a good mobile phone application :) |
| 19:02:03 | mandrake | the ipaq has FD audio hardware on it |
| 19:02:05 | altered | ljp: did or didn't? |
| 19:02:22 | mandrake | is it just the drivers that don't support the full duplex or the hardware itself? |
| 19:02:52 | altered | whardier: I was thinking about making a remote baby monitoring application for my wife :) baby comes in March, don't know if I'll make it in time. |
| 19:03:18 | ljp_work | hmm.. I haven't really looked into it. Fastolfe has been finding really stupid mistakes in the sound driver |
| 19:03:39 | whardier | mandrake: I would love FD.. |
| 19:03:51 | whardier | maybewe canhack in a 22khz FD patch to the kernel :) |
| 19:04:00 | ljp_work | like mixing up old ioctl and new ioctl calls for channel setting |
| 19:04:43 | whardier | hehe |
| 19:04:47 | whardier | that would be a funhack |
| 19:04:52 | whardier | butthe poor sound hardware |
| 19:04:56 | ljp_work | let me do some more checking, but I thinkit failed to be set to fd |
| 19:05:14 | whardier | its one or the other. in or out |
| 19:05:19 | whardier | orr |
| 19:05:20 | whardier | actually |
| 19:05:26 | whardier | spank my monkey and call me wrong |
| 19:05:31 | whardier | it should be FD in mono |
| 19:05:51 | whardier | its the same sound card that is in the iPaq.. only with some sharp tweaks AFIAK |
| 19:06:01 | whardier | once setting the stereo to mono you should have mono mic in |
| 19:06:05 | whardier | and then FD |
| 19:06:20 | whardier | however you will have to tear apart the VoiceRecord app from the later sharp roms.. |
| 19:06:28 | ljp_work | hmm.. ok. I'll try that, I had forgotten that input was only mono... |
| 19:06:30 | whardier | to find out the ioctl needed for audio input |
| 19:07:11 | ljp_work | naaa.. it's just standard ioctls.. the driver is OS, and is in the linux kernel source for the Z |
| 19:07:33 | whardier | however nothing I compiled could get mic input |
| 19:07:44 | whardier | mixers do not recognize mic volume |
| 19:07:45 | ljp_work | if you grab the Z source tree. all the Z stuff is 'collie' |
| 19:07:57 | whardier | xcompiled aumix and another mixer |
| 19:07:58 | ljp_work | use /dev/dsp1 for input |
| 19:08:05 | whardier | oh no shit! |
| 19:08:11 | whardier | heh |
| 19:08:12 | whardier | BRB |
| 19:08:37 | ljp_work | ya. it doesn't set itslef up correctly |
| 19:08:51 | ljp_work | drive source is called collie_ssp.c |
| 19:09:00 | whardier | I have no /dev/dsp1 |
| 19:09:13 | whardier | what are your mknod params for it |
| 19:09:15 | ljp_work | on the Z? |
| 19:09:24 | whardier | it might have been left out of the OZ tree |
| 19:09:28 | whardier | yeah |
| 19:09:32 | whardier | on los Z!! |
| 19:09:56 | ljp_work | I know that Sharp rom's < 1.03 didn't have input |
| 19:10:25 | ljp_work | brb |
| 19:10:46 | whardier | whats the mknod param for /dev/dsp1 on the Z |
| 19:11:23 | whardier | wait |
| 19:11:26 | whardier | I have /dev/dsp1 |
| 19:11:30 | whardier | it is just not responding |
| 19:11:48 | whardier | keeps saying no such device |
| 19:11:50 | whardier | that blows |
| 19:25:07 | jperlow-sharp | whardier what is your last name again |
| 19:25:40 | treke | takes a gues and says hardier |
| 19:26:19 | Neo|Work | jperlow-sharp: morning |
| 19:29:08 | Hellaenergy | What is opie-qcop? |
| 19:30:37 | Mallory | qcop is a message passing interface of sorts for Qt |
| 19:31:02 | Mallory | file:/opt/Qtopia/doc/html/qtopia/qcop.html |
| 19:31:10 | Mallory | QCop messages allow applications to communicate with each other. These messages are send using QCopEnvelope, and received by connecting to a QCopChannel. |
| 19:34:40 | Hellaenergy | What is opie-qcop?Mallory: Thanks :) |
| 19:35:03 | Neo|Work | does that work for network too or is it only for local stuff? |
| 19:36:02 | Mallory | I think it's only local stuff. |
| 19:36:17 | Mallory | For network stuff I assume you'd want to use QSocket? |
| 19:38:30 | Neo|Work | Right, but that's low-level no, while QCops is a messaging protocol or what not |
| 19:39:06 | tux_mike | i really need to use my tivo to archive all the simpsons epsiodes :) |
| 19:39:11 | BigBoss | i'd like to say thanks to all those folks here that bought our new embedded software - we got some really good sales |
| 19:39:26 | Neo|Work | BigBoss: good for you. :-) |
| 19:39:46 | BigBoss | there is going to be a series of product reviews on linuxdevices in a few days |
| 19:43:07 | finkployd | well, if nothing else, the Z makes a pretty nice (if a bit expensive) mp3 player :) |
| 19:43:33 | BigBoss | it does play MP3's well |
| 19:44:15 | finkployd | I really need a 128MB SD card |
| 19:44:37 | Neo|Work | wait and get a 256 MB one. ;-) |
| 19:44:42 | BigBoss | get a 640mb card - 18 hours of music :) |
| 19:44:58 | finkployd | I thought 126 was the largest? |
| 19:45:02 | finkployd | 128 rather |
| 19:45:12 | BigBoss | there was a 640 at the IWWW show |
| 19:45:18 | finkployd | cool |
| 19:45:21 | BigBoss | i hear the 1gb micro drive is too hot |
| 19:45:46 | finkployd | I'm going to port an application that I will very likely be the only person in the world to use :) |
| 19:45:48 | treke | 18 hours of music and how long a battery life? :) |
| 19:45:59 | BigBoss | maybe 2 hours :) |
| 19:46:01 | finkployd | A 3270 terminal emulator |
| 19:46:06 | tux_mike | you can get a 1G flash card |
| 19:46:53 | finkployd | so I don't expect alot of help :) |
| 19:47:24 | finkployd | But I need one. The ability to log into out mainframe from my Z just strikes my as too cool for words |
| 19:47:31 | finkployd | s/out/our |
| 19:47:33 | altered | has trolltech released Qtopia Desktop for Linux? and the plugin framework? |
| 19:48:13 | Mallory | The current Qtopia Desktop is working with my Z |
| 19:48:15 | Mallory | (Linux) |
| 19:48:27 | Mallory | This one: ftp://ftp.trolltech.com/qt/embedded/palmtop/ |
| 19:48:57 | altered | Mallory: thanx |
| 19:49:01 | Mallory | no problem |
| 19:49:09 | treke | finkployd : I wouldnt be surprised if there was more demand for one than you think :) |
| 19:49:15 | Mallory | I'm using it through my CF Ethernet card though sinc eI can't get USB networking to work with the new ROMs. |
| 19:49:34 | Mallory | And I'm very psyched because now I can enter in all my info on a _real_ keyboard :) |
| 19:49:35 | finkployd | treke: I would be astounded. Seriously :) |
| 19:51:25 | Neo|Work | BigBoss: difference between SD (max 128 MB now, soon 256 from sandisk) and Compact Flash tho |
| 19:51:39 | BigBoss | what are you asking me? |
| 19:53:02 | Neo|Work | BigBoss: just noting that 128MB is the largest currently available SD card, although there are larger CF ones. "<BigBoss> there was a 640 at the IWWW show" |
| 19:53:19 | Neo|Work | 640 MB SD sounds like a rather big leap from 128. :P |
| 19:53:30 | BigBoss | it's a CF card - sorry |
| 19:53:38 | altered | BigBoss: does tkcKapital sync with Kapital through Qtopia Desktop? |
| 19:53:38 | BigBoss | the CF is physically larger, so I guess that is why |
| 19:53:58 | Hellaenergy | Man how do you set up a connection to the internet from the z using USB? |
| 19:54:40 | altered | Hellaenergy: which desktop OS? |
| 19:55:10 | Hellaenergy | Window$ 2000 |
| 19:55:12 | BZFlag | <tux_mike> you can get a 1G flash card <- where? |
| 19:55:13 | Neo|Work | BigBoss: right. Just wanted to clear that up to avoid confusion |
| 19:55:49 | kergoth`lunch | Hellaenergy: do you need NAT? or do you just want forwarding? |
| 19:55:56 | altered | Hellaenergy: setup connection sharing on your primary internet adapter, then setup a default route on the Z... though, I'm having trouble since the new ROM/driver update. |
| 19:56:08 | kergoth | yawns |
| 19:56:18 | Hellaenergy | forwarding |
| 19:57:24 | weimer | Hi. Any Sharp-Employees in here? |
| 19:58:42 | Hellaenergy | What is the default route on the z 192.168.1.201 255.255.255.0> |
| 19:59:34 | altered | Hellaenergy: which ROM are you using? |
| 19:59:53 | Hellaenergy | 1.11 |
| 19:59:56 | Hellaenergy | 1.11 |
| 20:00:08 | BigBoss | the 1gb is the IBM microdrive and it get's too hot to work in the Z, not to mention the battery life |
| 20:00:47 | tux_mike | BigBoss: Sandisk is making a 1G CF card |
| 20:00:50 | Neo|Work | BigBoss: SanDisk will come out with a 1 GB one |
| 20:01:00 | altered | BigBiss: BZ was asking about the 1G flash cards... I know IBM has one, not sure where to find it retail. |
| 20:01:02 | Neo|Work | BigBoss: and I found a reference to another company having one too, but no details |
| 20:01:25 | icefox | BigBoss: also trying to get anything off of the microdrive via the usb/ftp is not possible for the z locks up too soon. ftp needs to be tweeked |
| 20:01:51 | Neo|Work | doesn't the microdrive use too much power too? |
| 20:02:21 | altered | I take that back... it wasn't IBM... hmm... let me see if I can locate the press release where I first found it. |
| 20:02:51 | BigBoss | holy crap - a 1gb flash card? |
| 20:02:54 | BigBoss | that is just insane |
| 20:03:20 | Hellaenergy | Where? |
| 20:03:21 | BigBoss | I remember when I was a young pup and got a great deal for a HD on my Atari 1040ST for only $1,100 for 60mb |
| 20:03:39 | altered | BigBoss: 1G compact flash was announced quite some time ago... that's why I'm surprised that IBM hasn't had larger uDrives come out... |
| 20:03:53 | notAguru | I paid $500 for the used 20mb for my 1040st ... which I still own... :) |
| 20:04:24 | Hellaenergy | altered: 1.11 |
| 20:04:33 | altered | Hellaenergy: I think the new ROM uses 192.168.129.1 for the desktop IP. |
| 20:04:46 | Hellaenergy | ok thanks |
| 20:05:24 | altered | Hellaenergy: let me know if you get it to work... like I said, I had luck with the 1.02 and 1.03 ROMs with the older drivers... but no luck with the 1.11 ROM and the new drivers... |
| 20:05:51 | BigBoss | i upgraded to a Mega4, which I still use for sequencing :) |
| 20:05:56 | altered | Hellaenergy: but, then again, I had no luck with the sync software with the old roms/drivers and they work great now. |
| 20:08:28 | Neo|Work | http://www.dpreview.com/articles/mediacompare/ might be fun rea |
| 20:08:31 | Neo|Work | read |
| 20:09:46 | Hellaenergy | Could not locate remote server :(((( |
| 20:10:09 | Neo|Work | is away: lunch |
| 20:10:17 | Hellaenergy | I set up TCP/IP over USB did a connect sharing on my primary adapter.... |
| 20:10:32 | Hellaenergy | 192.168.129.2 for the z |
| 20:16:34 | Mallory | I thought somebody say that the "old" (non-patched) CDCEther worked on zaurus-general. |
| 20:16:43 | Mallory | I haven't gotten around to trying that yet |
| 20:18:02 | Hellaenergy | For the record the default for the new USB Driver IP is 192.168.0.1 |
| 20:18:16 | Mallory | You're talking about Windows? |
| 20:18:48 | altered | Hellaenergy: hmm... it was 192.168.129.1 for me.. |
| 20:19:28 | Hellaenergy | I just looked in the properties of the SL Series (NDIS 5) adapter |
| 20:19:42 | Hellaenergy | it was 192.168.0.1 for the IP |
| 20:19:47 | Mallory | DB server |
| 20:19:59 | Mallory | Man I'm gonna start using different screens for different damn channels |
| 20:20:16 | altered | Hellaenergy: was it set to DHCP by default? |
| 20:21:25 | Hellaenergy | Don't remember accually :P |
| 20:21:42 | altered | Hellaenergy: mine was set to DHCP by default, and obtains an address of 192.168.129.1 and the Z is set to 192.168.129.201 |
| 20:22:24 | Hellaenergy | So what did you do to connect to the web again? |
| 20:24:21 | altered | Hellaenergy: I haven't been able to with the new rom/drivers... with the old ones I just added the route: route add default gw 192.168.0.200 (or whatever the old host IP was) |
| 20:24:28 | altered | err... not host, but desktop. |
| 20:24:45 | Mallory | Yeah, the old CDCEther doesn't seem to be working either |
| 20:26:24 | altered | it was so nice to have an internet connection from the cradle... |
| 20:39:54 | Hellaenergy | Ya some of our z's have never tasted the internet before :( |
| 20:40:41 | Mallory | Invest in a CF Ethernet card, it makes the Internet taste yummy. |
| 20:42:20 | mandrake | we have some CF wireless cards here |
| 20:42:37 | mandrake | but I don't think that is the killer app for the zaurus. |
| 20:43:00 | mandrake | not until we're all online from everywhere |
| 20:43:02 | mandrake | then it'll make more sense. |
| 20:44:07 | dkl_lunch_time | mandrake: I think it will be nice when sharp rolls out their wireless service for Z, http://www.sharpmobile.com. Looks like it will give same functionality as Palm i705 |
| 20:44:54 | Mallory | yeah, I just hope they firewall port 4242 :/ |
| 20:45:33 | kergoth | Mallory: you can limit what ips are allowed to connect to port 4242 in the security tool in settings.. at least in current qtopia from cvs, i dunno about the sharp roms |
| 20:45:42 | Mallory | Hmm, looking |
| 20:46:11 | Mallory | Nope, not in this one |
| 20:46:13 | kergoth | ah |
| 20:46:28 | kergoth | well OZ will be able to do that. hehe. not to mention it has iptables support, so you could firewall it yourself |
| 20:46:30 | kergoth | :-P |
| 20:46:38 | Mallory | No biggie right now as I'm always on private LANs. |
| 20:46:50 | kergoth | yep |
| 20:46:52 | kergoth | yawns |
| 20:47:20 | Mallory | Also 4242 does not show up to nmap. |
| 20:50:51 | Mallory | So that sharpmobile stuff... that's gonna be 802.3b? |
| 20:54:43 | dkl | Mallory: http://www.sharp-usa.com/about/AboutPressRelease/0,1130,C204,00.html |
| 20:56:58 | Mallory | I love how sharp-usa.com is right up the street but the site is stailling. |
| 20:57:39 | Hellaenergy | Who is going to write the Oreilly Book: "Programming for the Sharp SL5 Series" ?:~} |
| 20:57:53 | Mallory | Hella: There is already a Qt ORA book. |
| 20:58:03 | Mallory | I picked it up a LWCE, pretty good for those of us who know jack about Qt. :) |
| 20:58:03 | Hellaenergy | Is it good? |
| 20:58:08 | Mallory | So far yeah |
| 20:58:14 | Mallory | Nice intro (I got through the first two chapters) |
| 20:58:29 | Mallory | If you don't know C++ and object-oriented principles then you should start somewhere else though. |
| 20:58:43 | Hellaenergy | Does it apply well to what you need to do on the z? |
| 20:58:44 | kergoth | creates a debian package for the arch revision system |
| 20:59:10 | Mallory | Well you need to understand Qt (Qt/E in particular) to write anything for the Z. |
| 20:59:13 | Hellaenergy | I should say what you have to work with on the z? |
| 20:59:23 | Mallory | This book outlines all the basics which appiy to Qt/E |
| 20:59:33 | Mallory | If you have the qtopia SDK then it's easy. |
| 20:59:36 | Hellaenergy | QT version? |
| 20:59:42 | Mallory | mmh? |
| 21:00:14 | Hellaenergy | What version are we working with on the z? Latest and Greatest? |
| 21:00:26 | bipolar_away | is away: I'm not here... Really.... |
| 21:00:30 | Mallory | Oh, 2.3.2 IIRC |
| 21:00:38 | Hellaenergy | IIRC |
| 21:00:43 | Hellaenergy | ? |
| 21:00:46 | Mallory | qtopia-sdk-1.5.0-3 |
| 21:00:52 | Mallory | If I Recall Correctly |
| 21:01:44 | Hellaenergy | Mallory: What is 2.3.2 IIRC |
| 21:03:01 | Mallory | I think Qtopia is based on Qt/E 2.3.2, If I Recall Correctly. |
| 21:03:06 | mark_ | it is |
| 21:03:29 | Mallory | Which is what the book covers, going back to the subject. :) |
| 21:03:35 | Mallory | Think of Qt/E as a subset of Qt for the most part. |
| 21:03:44 | Mallory | If you understand Qt then you'll understand Qt/E |
| 21:03:53 | Mallory | You need to know Qt/E to write Z apps (for the most part). |
| 21:03:56 | Mallory | Got it? :) |
| 21:03:57 | mark_ | Qt/E is Qt |
| 21:03:59 | dkl | Looks like sharpmobile will use 2G CDPD since it is going with AetherFusion and AetherFusion uses that PocketPC platform although I dont know what any of that means. |
| 21:04:06 | mark_ | like Qt/X11 and Qt/win32 is Qt |
| 21:04:09 | Mallory | Oh, I thought it ws a subset |
| 21:04:15 | Mallory | Even better then :) |
| 21:04:41 | Hellaenergy | Mallory: Got it :) |
| 21:04:54 | Mallory | Good! |
| 21:05:44 | Hellaenergy | Thanks! |
| 21:12:10 | Hellaenergy | Anyone Else read the QT book from Oreilly? |
| 21:14:20 | Hellaenergy | Mallory: Do you have second edition or the first one? |
| 21:16:17 | Hellaenergy | I guess it just came out never mind http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/prowqt2/ |
| 21:19:20 | Mallory | Second edition |
| 21:19:33 | Mallory | It came out on Tuesday and I bought it that Thursday at the expo before the bookstores even had it :) |
| 21:19:40 | Hellaenergy | That says it covers QT 3 |
| 21:20:07 | Mallory | Yeah, but I'm looking to learn Qt in general. I can deal withthe specifics as I need to. |
| 21:20:43 | Hellaenergy | I heard QT 3 takes a while to compile :) |
| 21:21:02 | icefox | define: a while |
| 21:21:13 | Hellaenergy | 8 hours someone said |
| 21:21:16 | icefox | :-) |
| 21:21:27 | Hellaenergy | icefox: was that you? |
| 21:21:43 | icefox | My 133 takes a long time to compile it, but my dual 1600 doesn't |
| 21:21:45 | icefox | :) |
| 21:21:57 | Mallory | I can time it on my Dual XP if you're really curious :) |
| 21:24:06 | icefox | ok |
| 21:24:30 | mark_ | drools at mention of dual xp |
| 21:25:27 | Hellaenergy | Do it Do it!!! |
| 21:30:19 | dkl | Programming with QT 2nd ed. 24.50 (39% off retail) at http://www.bookpool.com |
| 21:34:16 | icefox | How do I find out what net connections I currently have? |
| 21:34:25 | icefox | i.e. what ips are open |
| 21:34:28 | kergoth | netstat |
| 21:36:14 | icefox | bingo |
| 21:36:41 | Hellaenergy | dkl: Good Look :) |
| 21:38:49 | Hellaenergy | 4243.... |
| 21:40:50 | ljp | whom ever invented MICROS~1 Windows (tm) is an idiot!! |
| 21:41:22 | mark_ | ljp: you refering to gates? |
| 21:41:52 | ljp | not necessarily.. I just am hating windows righ tnow.. stupid os |
| 21:42:06 | mark_ | oh right, yes |
| 21:42:22 | Hellaenergy | Lets all take a moment to hate windows right now |
| 21:42:23 | mark_ | but gates is reported to be a very skilled programmer |
| 21:42:42 | ljp | my win2k at work crashed.. the Z was in the cradle, and when I rebooted.. it couldn't find the USB network interface.. no matter what I did |
| 21:42:55 | ljp | it wouldn't even reinstall the damn thing |
| 21:43:21 | ljp | so I have a usb icon in the tray.. but no network to the Z |
| 21:43:47 | dkl | Hellaenergy: what do you mean? |
| 21:44:17 | ljp | there's two parts to the windows driver... the USB interface, and the newtwork interface |
| 21:44:44 | ljp | the network interface isn't working, nor is it uninstalling, nor is it installing. |
| 21:45:36 | ljp | registry.. my ass.... |
| 21:50:12 | ][N-Flux | http://www.xengames.com/ |
| 21:50:26 | ][N-Flux | 3d is actually coming aolng on the arm |
| 21:52:16 | Mallory | Hmm, there is no scp included with the openssh on sourceforge |
| 21:52:39 | kergoth | Mallory: wtf |
| 21:53:00 | mark_ | ][N-Flux: that looks pretty cool (shame its pocketpc) |
| 21:53:25 | treke | reiterates the call for pocketwine |
| 21:53:41 | ][N-Flux | yeah, just using it as a comparison |
| 21:53:56 | ][N-Flux | we should be able to squeeze out better :) |
| 21:54:49 | tux_mike | b |
| 21:54:56 | Mallory | wtf what? |
| 21:56:16 | Hellaenergy | ][N-Flux: Let get that puppy on the Z ;) |
| 21:56:23 | ][N-Flux | :) |
| 21:56:49 | kergoth | Mallory: leaving out scp annoys me :-) |
| 21:57:03 | ][N-Flux | love to get some sort of 3d going, haven't seen anything yet |
| 21:57:13 | Mallory | Yeah, it annoys me too. |
| 21:57:16 | ][N-Flux | outside quake, which don't work :) |
| 21:57:19 | Mallory | There is sftp but I never use that. |
| 21:57:24 | Hellaenergy | mark_: done even start Wine'in. We need it to be written for Linux. |
| 21:57:45 | ][N-Flux | ponders |
| 21:57:55 | ][N-Flux | GLtron w/software renderer |
| 21:58:00 | ][N-Flux | hrmmm |
| 21:58:03 | mark_ | Hellaenergy: not really suprising it doesnt work in wine |
| 21:58:09 | Hellaenergy | I don't know #$%^ about 3D Development |
| 21:58:41 | pradu | hey, is someone already using the 1.11 rom with the CDCEther driver? |
| 21:59:06 | kergoth | pradu: cdcether wont work with the usb networking driver in the 1.11 rom |
| 21:59:12 | kergoth | pradu: not the way it is now, anyway |
| 21:59:32 | nelazul | hmm what are people's opinions on the new sharp rom vs. the most recent openzaurus? |
| 21:59:48 | Hellaenergy | kergoth: Is there anything that does work right now with 1.11? |
| 21:59:54 | pradu | ah, shit. Does the serial interface work? (last time I tried it freezed my PC after few mins) |
| 21:59:57 | ][N-Flux | nelazul: new sharp has more features |
| 21:59:59 | kergoth | nelazul: new sharp rom is more feature rich at this point. cleaner interface. but lacks linux usb networking |
| 22:00:07 | kergoth | pradu: yes, but probably still crashes |
| 22:00:18 | Hellaenergy | new sharp would be nice if I could network it. |
| 22:00:19 | kergoth | Hellaenergy: the new windows drivers probably should, but no usb networking in linux yet |
| 22:00:30 | Mallory | Pierre was working on the CDCEther driver last night. |
| 22:00:47 | Hellaenergy | Cheers to Pierre! |
| 22:00:49 | whardier | damn |
| 22:01:11 | kergoth | whardier: I booted OZ 2.6 using jffs2 rootfs last night.. the symlink hell was still there, but hey it worked |
| 22:01:11 | pradu | I still don't get the point in doing a Linux based PDA that does not connect to Linux :( |
| 22:01:14 | kergoth | whardier: heh |
| 22:01:18 | kergoth | pradu: no kidding |
| 22:01:27 | nelazul | heh i have a recommendation to everyone: get a cf network card. It' SO much easier than USB networking |
| 22:01:42 | Hellaenergy | We need a TV out for the Z |
| 22:01:48 | Mallory | pradu: Because a Linux-based PDA is not necessarily targetted for Linux users. |
| 22:01:55 | whardier | heh |
| 22:01:55 | whardier | well |
| 22:02:00 | whardier | they sorta by default are |
| 22:02:04 | whardier | I bought one.. cause I am a linux user |
| 22:02:13 | pradu | I bet the initial user base will be Linux hackers |
| 22:02:19 | whardier | pretty much |
| 22:02:30 | kergoth | whardier: we're not sharp's target market of course, but we'll be the first ones to jump on it |
| 22:02:31 | Mallory | The initial userbase, but this is why it's still developmental. Stuff breaks in development. :) |
| 22:02:38 | kergoth | yep |
| 22:03:05 | Mallory | It's a little frustrating but I'm accepting it and just syncing through my Socket. :) |
| 22:03:11 | kergoth | gah |
| 22:03:22 | kergoth | starts writing the Opie Policy Manual |
| 22:03:23 | whardier | I have a dhcp serveron 10.11.0.2 . I wanna serve another t1 elsewhere on our network with 10.10.0.50-100.. any ideas? |
| 22:03:24 | kergoth | shudders |
| 22:03:34 | pradu | Well the last good rom from sharp is still 1.02. All subsequent one did break for me :(. I think I'll go back to OZ 2.6 |
| 22:03:57 | whardier | watches kergoth shudder |
| 22:04:20 | ][N-Flux | linux=work |
| 22:04:30 | ][N-Flux | it's the way of the world :/ |
| 22:04:42 | ][N-Flux | have to make it work, not expect it to :) |
| 22:05:09 | Mallory | Exactly. :) |
| 22:05:48 | Neo|Work | is back from YAM (Yet Another Meeting) |
| 22:05:58 | pradu | It's just that I'm not that good at kernel hacking :). I still prefer doing application programming |
| 22:06:41 | Dr_Who | greets |
| 22:06:47 | Neo|Work | Dr_Who: lo |
| 22:06:50 | Mallory | Okay, "Duplicate Entries" in Palmtop Center is not doing jack shit. |
| 22:07:02 | Mallory | The PDA overrides the desktop them the desktop overrides the PDA. |
| 22:07:22 | Dr_Who | puts on the newbie cap |
| 22:07:25 | altered | Mallory: duplicate entries is only for conficts... |
| 22:07:41 | Mallory | Well there are three options |
| 22:07:43 | altered | Mallory: ex. edit the same record on the Z and in Qtopia Desktop. |
| 22:07:44 | kergoth | brb |
| 22:07:45 | Dr_Who | I sorta assume that someone has more recent kernel source than 2.4.6 that works.... |
| 22:07:57 | altered | Mallory: yes.. three options on how to handle conflicts... |
| 22:08:14 | Mallory | Okay, but I add a contact in desktop, sync it to Z, then it mysteriously disappears from desktop but is still in Z, then is gone from both next time I sync |
| 22:08:52 | altered | Mallory: hmmm... I've noticed odd syncing behavior, but only when I try and sync two different Z's with Qtopia Desktop. |
| 22:09:16 | Mallory | I'll play more later. |
| 22:10:30 | Dr_Who | additional stupid question of that day ... how do you invoke the package manager to install a particular package... |
| 22:10:47 | Mallory | The "Add / Remove" app didn't work for me until the latest ROMs |
| 22:10:54 | Mallory | ipkg install <packages> from Terminal |
| 22:11:03 | Dr_Who | ahhhhhhh ok |
| 22:11:10 | Dr_Who | where does ipkg hale from ? |
| 22:11:18 | Dr_Who | entirely new concept or built on deb or rpm? |
| 22:11:29 | nasa | Has anyone got ppp over usb under linux to work with the new rom? |
| 22:11:34 | nelazul | its kinda deb-ish |
| 22:11:41 | nelazul | it was developed by the ipaq guys |
| 22:12:18 | kendrick2 | jason? |
| 22:12:29 | Dr_Who | thanks much Mallory |
| 22:12:30 | altered | is there a Z package for libncurses5? |
| 22:12:38 | kendrick2 | someone in italy wants to know if they can get a z dev ed? |
| 22:12:41 | ][N-Flux | what is the best for sharing a network in windows? |
| 22:13:02 | Dr_Who | anyway ... anyone here done any hacking on the kernel? ... I've noticed this 2.4.6 kernel leaves alot to be desired from a PDA perspective |
| 22:13:15 | Neo|Work | kendrick2: I believe Jason is very idle(TM) |
| 22:13:27 | Neo|Work | sugar, seen JasonNJ |
| 22:13:27 | Sugar | Neo|Work: I last saw JasonNJ quitting IRC 5h 25m 6s ago. |
| 22:13:32 | Neo|Work | sugar, heard jperlow-sharp |
| 22:13:32 | Sugar | Neo|Work: I last heard jperlow-sharp on IRC 2h 48m 26s ago in channel #zaurus saying: whardier what is your last name again |
| 22:13:57 | kendrick2 | whardier's last name was so disturbing and horrible that jason kicked the bucket! hehe |
| 22:14:15 | kendrick2 | so anyone know? |
| 22:14:20 | Neo|Work | From an email I just got: "Vyplnenim nasi ankety se dostavate do slosovani o darek!" - Aha, ok, thanks for the mail dude |
| 22:15:06 | Mallory | use the fish |
| 22:15:07 | altered | kendrick2: tell him I'll sell him mine if he get's me a plane ticket! :) |
| 22:15:08 | Neo|Work | kendrick2: I have no clue although I saw something in this channel some time ago about it being available only in the UK and the US |
| 22:15:22 | kendrick2 | yeah, that's what he heard |
| 22:15:25 | kendrick2 | anyone know when/if? |
| 22:15:28 | Neo|Work | ebay? :) |
| 22:15:28 | Hellaenergy | www.bookpool.com is out of QT 2nd edition books :( |
| 22:15:53 | Mallory | Hella: Check your local bookstore. |
| 22:16:01 | Mallory | It's been out for two weeks or so now, I'm sure they'll have it by now. |
| 22:16:20 | Hellaenergy | 39% off is what sold me though |
| 22:16:23 | kergoth | Dr_Who: the shapr specific kernel stuff (Collie) hasnt been ported to 2.4.18, I believe tim riker at lineo is planning on doing it eventually |
| 22:16:25 | Neo|Work | haha. you can buy a Zaurus t-shirt on ebay. ;-) |
| 22:16:43 | kergoth | s/shapr/sharp/ |
| 22:16:55 | pradu | kedrick2: I'm in italy, and I got a developer unit from sharp |
| 22:17:05 | Mallory | So was there a report of the 2.4.6 CDCEther driver working? |
| 22:17:28 | kergoth | jperlow-sharp, whardier: we need to update the cafepress stuff. |
| 22:17:45 | Neo|Work | I should order that book. have some amazon bucks to spend |
| 22:21:51 | Hellaenergy | Neo|Work: What price did you get on Amazon? |
| 22:23:06 | kendrick2 | pradu - how? |
| 22:23:40 | LarryGarfield | looks around, since it's been a while since he's been here. |
| 22:23:46 | LarryGarfield | You changed the drapes. :-) |
| 22:23:53 | kergoth | LarryGarfield: wb |
| 22:23:54 | kergoth | heh |
| 22:24:00 | Neo|Work | 31.95 before tax |
| 22:24:09 | LarryGarfield | Good price for drapes. |
| 22:24:13 | Neo|Work | hehe |
| 22:24:24 | pradu | through theKompany (I work for them) |
| 22:24:29 | kendrick2 | oh :^P |
| 22:24:37 | LarryGarfield | Ah, on a business expense account, too! |
| 22:24:43 | LarryGarfield | <MontyBurns>Excellent</MontyBurns> |
| 22:24:46 | Fastolfe | Anybody has done inline ARM assembly in C ? |
| 22:24:53 | Fastolfe | that ATT syntax is making me crazy |
| 22:24:56 | icefox | haha |
| 22:25:00 | Neo|Work | Hellaenergy: $27.96 + $3.99 S&H + $2.82 tax => $34.77 |
| 22:25:03 | icefox | but that is half of the fun |
| 22:25:07 | LarryGarfield | is getting a horribly slow connection to Sharp |
| 22:25:18 | Hellaenergy | Not bad |
| 22:26:24 | nelazul | heh i wish the qt book was an o'reilly so i could get my usenix discount |
| 22:26:30 | nelazul | that thing has come in very handy |
| 22:26:52 | Hellaenergy | Still not the 28.19 from bookpool |
| 22:27:20 | Mallory | Hmm |
| 22:27:22 | Hellaenergy | nelazul: It is http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/prowqt2/ |
| 22:27:27 | Mallory | CDCEther doesn't even exist in 2.4.8 |
| 22:27:48 | nelazul | hellaenergy: thank you very much :) |
| 22:27:49 | Hellaenergy | What kernel are you talking about Mallory? |
| 22:27:57 | Neo|Work | gesh, was > 1 yr since my last amazon order. :P |
| 22:27:59 | Hellaenergy | no prob |
| 22:28:18 | Mallory | 2.4.8? |
| 22:28:20 | Mallory | :) |
| 22:28:34 | Dr_Who | kergoth: thanks much ... |
| 22:28:41 | LarryGarfield | Is ZaurusZone still the best 3rd party ipk archive, or is there another? |
| 22:29:00 | Hellaenergy | Mallory: Embedix? |
| 22:29:17 | kergoth | LarryGarfield: http://sourceforge.net/projects/zaurus/ and zauruszone are good. frankly. we need a better pacakge archive |
| 22:29:18 | Mallory | no, vanilla |
| 22:29:42 | Neo|Work | kergoth: Jason was talking on how he'd work to setup such a beast |
| 22:29:42 | LarryGarfield | ZaurusGear.com? :-) |
| 22:29:50 | kergoth | Neo|Work: i know :-) |
| 22:29:56 | nasa | Has anyone got linux to sync with the new rom? |
| 22:29:59 | kergoth | Neo|Work: looking forward to it |
| 22:30:08 | kergoth | nasa: it wont. period. wait on lineo |
| 22:30:10 | kergoth | heh |
| 22:30:29 | kergoth | nasa: unless you want to do serial over usb instead of networking, or use a cf networking card, thatd work |
| 22:30:31 | kergoth | yawns |
| 22:30:32 | kergoth | brb |
| 22:31:05 | Neo|Work | the linux syncing simply uses TCP then? |
| 22:31:20 | Mallory | Basically, AFAIK it uses the ftpd on port 4242 |
| 22:31:32 | Mallory | It works over a CF Ethernet card by pointing it to the right IP |
| 22:32:14 | nasa | I have been trying to use the networking howto -- which use to work |
| 22:32:27 | nasa | Has the new rom broken that process? |
| 22:32:51 | LarryGarfield | Well, they certainly manage to keep the SF page bare of information.... |
| 22:32:53 | LarryGarfield | No descriptions. |
| 22:33:29 | kergoth | nasa: for usb networking? |
| 22:33:48 | nasa | Yeah |
| 22:34:01 | kergoth | nasa: the usb networking driver on the Z changed. |
| 22:34:13 | Mallory | /topic No, the CDCEther modules does not work with the new 1.10 or 1.11 ROMs. |
| 22:34:14 | Mallory | :) |
| 22:34:26 | nasa | Oh |
| 22:34:35 | scanline | is back (gone 03:49:20) |
| 22:34:37 | Mallory | Is the source for the Z networking drivers available? |
| 22:34:47 | Mallory | Or only the binaries in the ROM? |
| 22:35:50 | LarryGarfield | grrr.... Any idea why I can't download the 1.11 ROM? I keep getting a transfer error. |
| 22:35:57 | kergoth | Mallory: the source is in the kernel, but again, they havent released the source to their changed drivers |
| 22:36:10 | Mallory | Yeah, that's what I was getting at. |
| 22:36:30 | Neo|Work | Mallory: ftp? Funky. :P |
| 22:36:33 | Mallory | With no source or outline of changes its hard to fix the problem. |
| 22:36:36 | ljp_laptop | Larry: what url are you using? |
| 22:36:42 | kergoth | yep |
| 22:36:47 | LarryGarfield | The one posted to zaurus-general. |
| 22:37:04 | LarryGarfield | http://more.sbc.co.jp/slj/qa/test/check/download/binary/SL5UpdateV111.zip |
| 22:37:15 | Mallory | I have it mirrored here if you want |
| 22:37:17 | ljp_laptop | have you tried the one on ZZ? |
| 22:37:25 | Mallory | http://ftp.engardelinux.org/pub/engarde/people/ryan/stash/zaurus/ |
| 22:37:28 | LarryGarfield | ljp: No. |
| 22:37:34 | LarryGarfield | Mallory: Thanks! |
| 22:37:36 | Mallory | No prob |
| 22:37:50 | ljp_laptop | there's also updated windows drivers at the japan site |
| 22:37:56 | LarryGarfield | What is the 1.10 and 1.11 difference? |
| 22:37:56 | Mallory | (I typed that URL from memory, let me know if it doesn't work) |
| 22:38:06 | Mallory | the memory layout |
| 22:38:11 | LarryGarfield | crap, the download just crashed Opera. :-) |
| 22:38:19 | Mallory | 1.11 is the same layout as the initial ROMs, 1.10 has more RAM for big apps |
| 22:38:47 | LarryGarfield | I still think not using XIP is incredibly bad. |
| 22:38:59 | LarryGarfield | Mallory: Getting an error on your link too. |
| 22:39:00 | ljp_laptop | XIP? |
| 22:39:08 | LarryGarfield | eXicute In Place. |
| 22:39:27 | ljp_laptop | you mean from the rom? |
| 22:39:30 | Mallory | http://ftp.engardelinux.org/pub/engarde/people/ryan/stash/zaurus/ |
| 22:39:32 | Mallory | It's in there |
| 22:39:34 | LarryGarfield | Technique(s) for executing programs in a RAM disk where they are rather than copying to another location in RAM. |
| 22:39:38 | Mallory | http://ftp.engardelinux.org/pub/engarde/people/ryan/stash/zaurus/SL5UpdateV110.zip |
| 22:39:42 | Mallory | http://ftp.engardelinux.org/pub/engarde/people/ryan/stash/zaurus/ROMIMAGE |
| 22:39:51 | LarryGarfield | Mallory: Yes, but Opera gives an error on the file when I try to download it. :-) |
| 22:39:57 | LarryGarfield | goes to try a different browser. |
| 22:40:17 | Mallory | Right click and Save As? |
| 22:40:23 | Mallory | (If Opera has that) |
| 22:40:30 | LarryGarfield | I did. |
| 22:40:34 | ljp_laptop | Larry: if that's like running them from the flash rom,, it'd be too slow |
| 22:40:36 | LarryGarfield | It starts downloading, then quits. |
| 22:40:40 | Mallory | wierd |
| 22:40:59 | LarryGarfield | ljp: Why? PalmOS runs the OS and PIM apps direct from ROM. |
| 22:41:08 | LarryGarfield | And it's only got a 16 or 33 MHz chip. |
| 22:41:37 | zacs | anyone else have problems starting opera with the 1.10 rom? |
| 22:41:39 | LarryGarfield | You'd need to rewrite the mmap and read functions in the kernel, but it could be done. |
| 22:41:51 | LarryGarfield | I'll let you know when I have it, zacs. :-) |
| 22:42:36 | LarryGarfield | Ah! That's the problem. |
| 22:43:58 | Neo|Work | ][N-Flux: initiated a dialog with Xen Games RE porting... :-) |
| 22:44:12 | dkl | LarryGarfield: Agenda PDA made heavy use of XIP in its images. |
| 22:44:21 | LarryGarfield | Wow, I didn't think this was possible.... I have over 200 MB of Palm downloads. :-) |
| 22:44:32 | dkl | Problem is XIP binaries cant be compressed if using cramfs |
| 22:44:42 | LarryGarfield | True. |
| 22:44:59 | LarryGarfield | But it means that you waste enormous amounts of time and RAM duplicating everything that is already in RAM when you execute it. |
| 22:45:07 | LarryGarfield | It's the #1 architectural flaw in WinCE. |
| 22:45:31 | dkl | LarryGarfield: you save on load time but lose on execution time since Flash is slower than SDRAM |
| 22:45:43 | dkl | but it does leave the sdram for other things |
| 22:45:46 | LarryGarfield | By how much? |
| 22:45:58 | dkl | I do not know exact access times |
| 22:46:15 | Neo|Work | flash reads seems to be a lot slower than ram |
| 22:46:19 | LarryGarfield | Right, with a 32 MB device you have about 5 MB of "storage", the rest is reserved as "Active" RAM. |
| 22:46:35 | LarryGarfield | (At least as of the last ROM I played with on the Z) |
| 22:46:49 | dkl | The 64meg versions will not suffer as much. But people will then want to load even more apps and you start to run into the same trouble again |
| 22:46:54 | Hella_Workin | We need a lpd on the zau |
| 22:46:56 | LarryGarfield | Precisely. |
| 22:47:06 | Neo|Work | the main benefit for Palm is that's it's really a single tasking environment |
| 22:47:16 | Neo|Work | only one app at any one point in time |
| 22:47:27 | nelazul | i wish mmc cards were as cheap as cf... |
| 22:47:33 | LarryGarfield | True. The way it handles it is a bit weird, but it's very effective. |
| 22:47:41 | nelazul | my cf slot is a bit busy with the netowkr card righht now |
| 22:47:42 | LarryGarfield | (One process, 4 threads, your app is one of those threads) |
| 22:48:10 | dkl | nelazul: Why are mmc cards more expensive anyway, I do not know much about the differences |
| 22:48:25 | Neo|Work | they are physically smaller so harder to make? |
| 22:48:33 | kendrick2 | runs off |
| 22:48:39 | Mallory | It also looks like suppy/demand. |
| 22:48:50 | Mallory | CF can be used in more things so they're more popular, thus cheaper. |
| 22:49:24 | dkl | ah but technically similar |
| 22:49:42 | LarryGarfield | Well, no. |
| 22:49:53 | LarryGarfield | CF is parallel, SD/MMC are serial. |
| 22:49:58 | dkl | I have only seen the palm brand ones in stores, do other manufacturers make them? |
| 22:50:08 | LarryGarfield | dkl: Plenty. |
| 22:50:17 | LarryGarfield | SD and MMC are license free, as is CF. |
| 22:50:24 | dkl | ok |
| 22:50:28 | Neo|Work | isn't MMC "worse" than SD btw? (i.e slower or what not) |
| 22:50:29 | LarryGarfield | It's only memory stick that requires a one-time license from Sony. |
| 22:50:43 | LarryGarfield | MMC is slower than SD in spec, actual speed depends on the device. |
| 22:50:49 | LarryGarfield | SD also supports IO, MMC is data only. |
| 22:50:54 | LarryGarfield | er, storage only. |
| 22:51:08 | LarryGarfield | SD also includes SDMI encryption, which is just plain evil, but most people don't implement it yet. |
| 22:51:13 | nelazul | and i don't intend on supporting the RIAA's efforts to take over the world |
| 22:51:37 | Neo|Work | LarryGarfield: I saw some wireless network card using SD, which surprised me. :) |
| 22:51:37 | ][N-Flux | hehehe |
| 22:51:38 | LarryGarfield | I don't know of any devices that implement SDMI on SD yet, fortunately. |
| 22:51:52 | LarryGarfield | The SDIO spec was approved in January, about 6 months behind schedule. |
| 22:52:06 | file | pity. |
| 22:52:25 | LarryGarfield | The only reason anyone considers SD a player is (1) The RIAA isn't complaining because it has SDMI (2) Palm is backing it. |
| 22:52:43 | LarryGarfield | And the CF/SD device craze was started by HandEra. |
| 22:52:52 | ][N-Flux | Palm |
| 22:52:54 | ][N-Flux | heh |
| 22:53:12 | ][N-Flux | how palm survived is beyond me |
| 22:53:30 | LarryGarfield | When you have a product people actually want, it's amazing how slow you can be and survive. ;-) |
| 22:53:39 | Neo|Work | ][N-Flux: the devices do what people want and start cheaper and have longer battery life.. |
| 22:53:50 | LarryGarfield | They got it right the first time. The "3rd time's the charm" is an MS thing. |
| 22:54:05 | ][N-Flux | palm devices always seemed to be too much money for what they did |
| 22:54:26 | LarryGarfield | Compared to what was on the market in 1996? :-) |
| 22:54:31 | ][N-Flux | newton dammit |
| 22:54:33 | ][N-Flux | :) |
| 22:54:50 | LarryGarfield | Was more PocketPC than super-organizer. |
| 22:55:02 | LarryGarfield | People wanted a super-organizer, not a PocketPC. |
| 22:55:04 | Neo|Work | today many Palm devices are rather underpowered compared to say Pocket PC, but yet they manage to do very very well in the application /usability point of view |
| 22:55:16 | LarryGarfield | Very Mac-like. :-) |
| 22:55:37 | ][N-Flux | LarryGarfield: sure in 96, but they never really updated all that much, the palm devices are still slow as hell, and the prices never came to a comfortable point |
| 22:55:59 | BigBoss | that was why Handspring did so well by coming in so cheap |
| 22:56:03 | LarryGarfield | $99 isn't comfortable? |
| 22:56:04 | ][N-Flux | but now they are jumping on the arm bandwagon |
| 22:56:05 | BigBoss | that is what made Palm drop the price |
| 22:56:20 | ][N-Flux | LarryGarfield: look at wha you get for $99, shite :) |
| 22:56:22 | LarryGarfield | The core OS hasn't changed much, which is what people like. |
| 22:56:40 | ][N-Flux | palm OS5 is gonna be embedded BeOS |
| 22:56:43 | LarryGarfield | But they've added a decent amount, shifted the design, etc. |
| 22:56:52 | LarryGarfield | There's no BeOS in OS 5, OS 5 has been in development for 3 years. |
| 22:57:06 | LarryGarfield | They only got Be last fall. |
| 22:57:10 | ][N-Flux | LarryGarfield: Just kidding, dunno what the are gonna do with Be |
| 22:57:17 | LarryGarfield | They don't know either. :-) |
| 22:57:31 | BigBoss | personally I like the Palm for what it does |
| 22:57:32 | ][N-Flux | likes Be |
| 22:57:38 | LarryGarfield | As long as OS 5 does XIP..... |
| 22:57:40 | BigBoss | it does the things I need and want and it is fast |
| 22:57:51 | BigBoss | the Z is really more than I want in that kind of device |
| 22:58:10 | ][N-Flux | don't get me wrong, I've owned a few palmOS devices, just always felt a bit ripped off |
| 22:58:13 | LarryGarfield | Indeed. It takes too much effort to grab a phone number, compared to a Palm. |
| 22:58:30 | scribe | where can I see my qWarning messages? |
| 22:58:50 | BigBoss | well I bought my Visor cheap and it has been a good friend :) |
| 22:58:59 | LarryGarfield | hehe |
| 22:59:00 | BigBoss | my wife will get it now when I move over to the Z for real |
| 22:59:13 | LarryGarfield | I've got a couple of devices for reviewing stuff. |
| 22:59:14 | BigBoss | of course it can't show porn (the Palm) worth a dam |
| 22:59:29 | ][N-Flux | I had a Visor Deluxe, actually liked the Visor's and I have a Clie, but looking to dump that now |
| 22:59:29 | LarryGarfield | Tried PalmaSutra? |
| 22:59:55 | LarryGarfield | PalmaSutra on a CLIE is decent for the more erotically inclined |
| 23:00:17 | ][N-Flux | PalmaSutra? |
| 23:00:46 | BigBoss | i've heard of it |
| 23:00:55 | BigBoss | kendrick keeps trying to get me to port it to the Z :) |
| 23:00:59 | LarryGarfield | lol. |
| 23:01:03 | LarryGarfield | N-Flux: http://www.palmasutra2.isfun.net/ |
| 23:01:28 | Neo|Work | ][N-Flux: I just won a Visor Edge in a handspring newsletter drawing. Own a Visor Deluxe now |
| 23:01:36 | ][N-Flux | looking, quite nice |
| 23:01:45 | LarryGarfield | Yes, looking.... |
| 23:02:23 | Balthor | hi |
| 23:02:29 | ][N-Flux | that is funny |
| 23:02:37 | ][N-Flux | use that jog dial when in a pinch |
| 23:03:10 | Balthor | anyone tried sd_swap_installer.tgz? |
| 23:03:32 | LarryGarfield | hehe. |
| 23:03:40 | LarryGarfield | Now, where is the 16k color version for the CLIE..... :-) |
| 23:03:50 | Hella_Workin | Anyone elses CPU Cherning like mine? |
| 23:03:57 | ][N-Flux | I have a greyscale clie |
| 23:04:04 | Hella_Workin | I am not even doing anything |
| 23:04:05 | LarryGarfield | has to go get some work done for a client. |
| 23:04:12 | ][N-Flux | can we emu palm on the Z yet? |
| 23:04:30 | LarryGarfield | With X-Copilot on X, I think. |
| 23:04:32 | LarryGarfield | BBL, folks. |
| 23:04:42 | ][N-Flux | lates LarryGarfield |
| 23:04:49 | Neo|Work | apparently it's about as fast as a snail though |
| 23:05:40 | ][N-Flux | figures |
| 23:06:22 | ][N-Flux | gotta stick my clie on the good ole ebay |
| 23:07:07 | LarryElsewhere | Which model? |
| 23:07:11 | LarryElsewhere | And why? |
| 23:07:34 | ][N-Flux | PEG-S320, and I need some cash, and not 2 pda's :) |
| 23:08:12 | LarryElsewhere | hehe. Yeah, the S320 is kinda redundant. |
| 23:08:20 | ][N-Flux | indeed |
| 23:09:12 | ][N-Flux | I had the ipaq h3650 I think, the greyscale one, anyway, the screen cracked, and comp USA didn't have any more so I took the clie at the time |
| 23:09:48 | Hella_Workin | Any one here in MN |
| 23:09:55 | kergoth | Hella_Workin: yep |
| 23:10:16 | Hella_Workin | We should start meeting at some bar and shootin the shit about the z |
| 23:10:35 | kergoth | hah. the first ZUG |
| 23:10:46 | Hella_Workin | In the making :) |
| 23:10:47 | zacs | hahah |
| 23:11:05 | Hella_Workin | Where you at kergoth? |
| 23:11:13 | kergoth | northerly suburb of minneapolis |
| 23:11:14 | kergoth | you? |
| 23:11:15 | Hella_Workin | MPLS |
| 23:11:21 | Hella_Workin | Downtown MPLS |
| 23:11:34 | ][N-Flux | Well, anyone from New England, since we are on the subject? |
| 23:11:41 | kergoth | ah cool. my girl lives in south mpls |
| 23:11:50 | Hella_Workin | aight |
| 23:12:04 | zacs | i'm in canadia |
| 23:12:12 | LarryElsewhere | is in Chicago |
| 23:12:15 | Hella_Workin | zacs: sorry bout that |
| 23:12:41 | kergoth | LarryElsewhere: chicago is elsewhere? :-P |
| 23:12:44 | Hella_Workin | zug mpls |
| 23:13:12 | tux_mike | anyone know how to do the copy/cut/paste operations from a menu item? |
| 23:13:40 | LarryElsewhere | kergoth: Yup. :-) |
| 23:14:43 | Hella_Workin | I like Chicago :) |
| 23:15:11 | Hella_Workin | kergoth: You old enough to go to a bar? |
| 23:15:48 | kergoth | Hella_Workin: yep, 21 |
| 23:16:31 | Hella_Workin | Nice, we would have to make it so zug mpls was in a bar [manditory] |
| 23:16:55 | Hella_Workin | Especially since our computers are portable |
| 23:17:31 | Hella_Workin | There was some other cat on this channel from MN too only he was only 17 :( |
| 23:17:52 | kergoth | course. ah that sucks |
| 23:18:09 | Neo|Work | goes to get a drink. |
| 23:18:18 | Hella_Workin | Maybe the bar thing could be after the zug mpls meetings :) |
| 23:18:32 | Hella_Workin | Neo|Work have one for me :) |
| 23:18:35 | kergoth | Neo|Work: good call. im still stuck at work |
| 23:18:45 | kergoth | Hella_Workin: there's no decent lug around here is there? |
| 23:18:59 | Hella_Workin | Dono |
| 23:19:04 | Hella_Workin | Never been to one |
| 23:19:21 | Hella_Workin | I think there is a decent jug though |
| 23:19:29 | Neo|Work | oh, no. not that kind of drink unfortunatelt. :-( just pop (free but still) |
| 23:19:33 | Neo|Work | is also @ Work |
| 23:19:43 | kergoth | ah ic |
| 23:19:53 | kergoth | wants a bar AT work damnit. |
| 23:20:03 | Hella_Workin | I second that |
| 23:20:04 | Neo|Work | sugar, make kergoth bloody |
| 23:20:04 | Sugar | Bloody Mary, Al's Bloody Mary, Bloody Bull, Bloody Maria or Bloody Caesar? |
| 23:20:06 | Neo|Work | sugar, make kergoth bloody mary |
| 23:20:07 | Sugar | shakes vodka, tomato juice, lemon juice, worcestershire sauce, tabasco sauce, salt and pepper to taste and ice, strains it into an old-fashioned glass over ice cubes then adds wedge of lime and serves it to kergoth. |
| 23:20:30 | Hella_Workin | Lets fly Neo|Work to mpls :) |
| 23:20:38 | kergoth | hah |
| 23:21:32 | file | Hella_Workin: go to work. |
| 23:21:47 | Hella_Workin | I am at work |
| 23:22:33 | Hella_Workin | I can juggle very well ;) |
| 23:23:33 | kergoth | needs to get out of tech support before he kills someone |
| 23:23:56 | ][N-Flux | ts is evil |
| 23:24:00 | Hella_Workin | Consult |
| 23:24:09 | kergoth | yes, ts is evil |
| 23:24:20 | kergoth | i tried to get the company to buy a tech support stress relief punching bag, but they didnt go for it |
| 23:24:21 | kergoth | hehe |
| 23:24:29 | Hella_Workin | But you love working with people... |
| 23:25:08 | Neo|Work | Hella_Workin: mpls is? |
| 23:25:20 | Hella_Workin | http://www.mn-linux.org/ |
| 23:25:59 | Hella_Workin | Minneapolis |
| 23:26:07 | Hella_Workin | Minnesota |
| 23:26:29 | Neo|Work | ah |
| 23:26:52 | LarryElsewhere | All my non-IE browsers are crashing a lot lately. |
| 23:26:58 | LarryElsewhere | Gee, I wonder... |
| 23:27:10 | Hella_Workin | It is currently 41F |
| 23:27:11 | Neo|Work | it's a conspiracy |
| 23:27:23 | Hella_Workin | Even Mozilla? |
| 23:27:41 | Hella_Workin | Anyone know of a Windows APOP client? |
| 23:27:53 | tux_mike | apop? |
| 23:28:04 | Hella_Workin | Authenticated POP |
| 23:28:19 | Hella_Workin | Hides your password :) |
| 23:28:25 | treke | outlook? |
| 23:28:29 | whardier | blah |
| 23:28:30 | Hella_Workin | nope |
| 23:28:47 | Hella_Workin | Evoloution can handle it, though :) |
| 23:29:04 | LarryElsewhere | gah!!! |
| 23:29:13 | LarryElsewhere | Now Netscape crashes on this 100% W3C valid web page. |
| 23:29:27 | tux_mike | LarryElsewhere: go figure... it's netscape |
| 23:29:33 | Hella_Workin | Are you being violated Larry? |
| 23:29:54 | LarryElsewhere | It's 10%-20% of my client's visitors, I can't forget them completely. :-) |
| 23:29:57 | zacs | Eudora Pro for Mac's and PC's support APOP. |
| 23:29:59 | LarryElsewhere | Yet I have no clue what the problem is. |
| 23:30:22 | LarryElsewhere | wtf?? |
| 23:30:33 | tux_mike | LarryElsewhere: are those people on windows? |
| 23:30:45 | LarryElsewhere | Yes. |
| 23:30:48 | Hella_Workin | kergoth: I can't believe there is no Linux Users Group in Minneapolis |
| 23:30:57 | Hella_Workin | At least there is a zug :) |
| 23:31:09 | tux_mike | why aren't they using IE? what version of nescape are they using? |
| 23:31:17 | kergoth | Hella_Workin: wonder how many ppl are in the tclug |
| 23:31:45 | LarryElsewhere | This is an NS 4 issue. |
| 23:32:04 | tux_mike | why are they using a 4 year old pos. |
| 23:32:06 | LarryElsewhere | When I was using div tags for the sidebar, it wouldn't recognize the links as links. Now I switched to tables, and it's crashing my NS 4. :-) |
| 23:32:08 | Hella_Workin | Oh never mind :) |
| 23:32:18 | LarryElsewhere | I was usin NS 4 until last December, when I switched to Opera 6 on windows. |
| 23:32:53 | kergoth | opera 6 is nice |
| 23:32:58 | kergoth | i use the latest mozilla build myself |
| 23:33:02 | Hella_Workin | kergoth: Where is the headquarters I wonder? |
| 23:33:04 | tux_mike | i've been using konq since kde 2.0, before that, i used mozilla |
| 23:33:20 | LarryElsewhere | Yes, but the users of the site include a decent number of NS 4 users. :-) |
| 23:33:56 | Hella_Workin | kergoth: 144 members |
| 23:34:01 | kergoth | Hella_Workin: on the tclug page: "We also have biweekly beer meetings at various locations in the Twin Cities area." |
| 23:34:03 | kergoth | heheh |
| 23:34:05 | Hella_Workin | http://www.mn-linux.org/tclugmembers/members.php |
| 23:34:27 | tux_mike | i hate netscape. i have since ie has become more standard than it |
| 23:34:33 | kergoth | Hella_Workin: the next installfest is in Apple Valley. thats a long drive from here. |
| 23:34:35 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:34:56 | Hella_Workin | Me to about 30-40 min |
| 23:35:07 | Hella_Workin | s/to/too |
| 23:35:48 | Hella_Workin | kergoth: http://www.mn-linux.org/tclugmembers//members.php/submit/ |
| 23:37:11 | LarryElsewhere | You hate Netscape because IE became common? :-) |
| 23:37:40 | tux_mike | no, i hate netscape because IE supports more of the W3C standards. |
| 23:37:55 | LarryElsewhere | NS 4 supported the 1998 standards just fine. :-) |
| 23:38:05 | tux_mike | i wouldn't be using linux if i liked the common stuff :) |
| 23:38:14 | LarryElsewhere | That is, HTML 3.2 and bits and pieces of HTML 4. |
| 23:38:15 | Hella_Workin | Mo-zil-a |
| 23:38:18 | tux_mike | that was 1998, 4 years ago :) |
| 23:38:29 | LarryElsewhere | Which is why I now use Opera. |
| 23:38:38 | tux_mike | konq! :) |
| 23:38:45 | kergoth | Opera's javascript has been flaky for me in the past |
| 23:38:50 | LarryElsewhere | But regardless, I need to figure out why this thing is crashing NS4, because that's what the customers are using. |
| 23:39:15 | tux_mike | are they on the latest version of ns4.7x? |
| 23:39:16 | LarryElsewhere | Let me see if going back to divs makes it work again. |
| 23:39:21 | LarryElsewhere | I am. |
| 23:39:31 | LarryElsewhere | I have no idea what they're on, NS 4.x is all the hit counter tells me. |
| 23:40:07 | tux_mike | what is ns doing? GPF? IPF? |
| 23:40:19 | LarryElsewhere | IPF I think. |
| 23:40:20 | LarryElsewhere | Not GPF. |
| 23:40:35 | tux_mike | do you know the module? |
| 23:40:50 | LarryElsewhere | Um, I'd have to try and recreate the error, hold on. :-) |
| 23:41:50 | LarryElsewhere | ok, now it's not crashing..... |
| 23:41:57 | LarryElsewhere | Still getting the same bug, though. |
| 23:42:03 | kergoth | lol..dont ya just love those elusive bugs? :-P |
| 23:42:29 | LarryElsewhere | Not really. :-) |
| 23:42:36 | LarryElsewhere | Here's the URL: http://betazed.packrat.wox.org/~lgarfiel/suffredin/ |
| 23:42:46 | LarryElsewhere | In Opera and IE, the sidebar renders and works fine. |
| 23:42:59 | tux_mike | well the typical problem with an IPF is the memory page is corupt... i've only really seen those with hardware problems :/ |
| 23:43:00 | LarryElsewhere | In NS 4, the image links aren't considered links. |
| 23:43:22 | kergoth | LarryElsewhere: mozilla is happy with it also. heh. |
| 23:43:32 | LarryElsewhere | In Konqueror, it ignores the size specifications of the table, so it appears all squished. |
| 23:44:35 | LarryElsewhere | NS is also moving the W3C images up above the HR, even though they're defined below it. At least sometimes it does that. :-) |
| 23:44:35 | tux_mike | LarryElsewhere: in my konq everything looks ok, except the top bar and the side bar arent touching |
| 23:44:51 | LarryElsewhere | They shouldn't touch, there's a white space between them. |
| 23:45:08 | tux_mike | oh, ok, then it looks fine :) |
| 23:45:39 | tux_mike | the image isn't coming up though |
| 23:45:45 | LarryElsewhere | sighs |
| 23:45:59 | LarryElsewhere | Is the text in the sidebar wrapping, or is it making the sidebar wide? |
| 23:46:03 | LarryElsewhere | It does the latter on my K. |
| 23:46:04 | tux_mike | color is wrong in mozilla for me on the left bar |
| 23:46:16 | LarryElsewhere | I want out of web design..... |
| 23:46:17 | tux_mike | on konq it's wrapping |
| 23:46:25 | LarryElsewhere | I must have an old Konq then. |
| 23:46:36 | LarryElsewhere | needs to switch to Debian to make updating easier. :-) |
| 23:46:51 | kergoth | LarryElsewhere: or at least conectiva, if you like rpm |
| 23:46:53 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:47:16 | LarryElsewhere | I like things to work and be easy to use. That's my main prioirity. :-) |
| 23:48:27 | tux_mike | i have RH and the latest version |
| 23:48:38 | LarryElsewhere | Screw it, I'm going back to div tags, NS 4 users can deal. |
| 23:48:43 | LarryElsewhere | uses Mandrake 8 |
| 23:49:17 | ][N-Flux | is a redhat whore |
| 23:49:24 | kergoth | I personally distro favs are debian, conectiva, and finally redhat |
| 23:49:25 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:49:28 | ][N-Flux | don't like the mandrake after 7.2 |
| 23:49:42 | tux_mike | bleh. mandrake. use either RH or debian |
| 23:49:54 | kergoth | i love the look people give me when they realize I'm a RHCE that doesnt like redhat much |
| 23:49:57 | kergoth | hehe |
| 23:50:20 | tux_mike | lol |
| 23:50:22 | ][N-Flux | redhat gets the support |
| 23:50:46 | tux_mike | i like redhat on the ways it works. the others just seem to have quirks |
| 23:51:08 | kergoth | tux_mike: every redhat but the x.2 versions have a shitload of quirks |
| 23:51:10 | kergoth | tux_mike: :-P |
| 23:51:37 | tux_mike | those are bugs, not quriks :) |
| 23:51:50 | kergoth | hah. whatever :-) |
| 23:52:01 | tux_mike | 7.1 was good for a .1 |
| 23:52:12 | kergoth | like the broken alternate open() interface in 7.1's -ac kernel |
| 23:52:13 | kergoth | ugh |
| 23:52:23 | tux_mike | 7.0 was horrible. there was so much crap i had to do to make it useable. |
| 23:52:27 | kergoth | and the 2.96 development compiler included by default that breaks kernel level stuff |
| 23:52:37 | tux_mike | kergoth: i never used the stock kernel in 7.1 |
| 23:52:40 | tux_mike | i rarely do |
| 23:52:57 | kergoth | and the kernel configs in /usr/src/linux/configs/ didnt match the actual prebuilt kernels in 7.0 |
| 23:52:59 | kergoth | iirc |
| 23:53:00 | Neo|Work | uses Mandrake cooker. :-)) |
| 23:54:08 | tux_mike | kergoth: wouldn't suprise me |
| 23:54:41 | Hella_Workin | I just became the 145 member of the tc-lug :) |
| 23:55:28 | kergoth | hm im thinking about grabbing the solaris and aix admin certs |
| 23:55:35 | tux_mike | with 7.2 i only have to do the usual updates, load a new kernel, and put in my custom propts and I'm set |
| 23:55:47 | tux_mike | kergoth: i'm going for solaris right now :) |
| 23:56:00 | LarryElsewhere | wants to develop for PDAs, not desktop. |
| 23:56:18 | tux_mike | i like pda development |
| 23:56:21 | LarryElsewhere | The consumer desktop world is swamped by MS anyway, and the apps get too stompin big. |
| 23:56:24 | kergoth | tux_mike: are you? nice. I dont have a degree, so anything that can prove my skills helps. its why i grabbed 3 linux certs. heh. |
| 23:56:27 | tux_mike | LarryElsewhere: have you done anything in qpe? |
| 23:56:40 | LarryElsewhere | Not a thing, my only PDA dev to date is PalmOS apps and hacks. ;-) |
| 23:57:12 | kergoth | I still havent actually done a qpe application, either. just bug fixes and tweaks and hacks |
| 23:57:13 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:57:25 | tux_mike | kergoth: yah, my "company" is paying for it. they want people with solaris certs... so they picked me |
| 23:57:28 | fiferboy | What's the install like on Debian? |
| 23:57:36 | kergoth | tux_mike: nice. my company has grown cheap in this market :-) |
| 23:57:48 | tux_mike | i really need to know how to make the edit menu with copy/paste/cut |
| 23:58:24 | treke | tux_mike : pretty easy :) I can email you some sample code |
| 23:58:28 | kergoth | fiferboy: its basic, pretty easy, but isnt a X gui fancy install like redhat and others |
| 23:58:37 | tux_mike | treke: could you? :) mike@tuxnami.org |
| 23:58:38 | kergoth | fiferboy: see #debian for details |
| 23:58:53 | fiferboy | kergoth: Thanks. |
| 23:58:59 | kergoth | fiferboy: np |
![http://david.hedbor.org/tmp/snapshot0[1-6].png](http://david.hedbor.org/tmp/snapshot0[1-6].png){kind=link}
