| 00:05.00 | goozbach | http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/idaho_does_not_exist.html |
| 00:05.35 | sjansen | tensai lied to me! |
| 00:05.36 | Newsome | It's true. Idaho doesn't exist. |
| 00:06.42 | bucky | oh yes it does |
| 00:07.05 | bucky | it's where they sell lotto tickets |
| 00:07.28 | bucky | hah |
| 00:08.03 | Newsome | Even lived there for upwards of 8 months |
| 00:08.18 | bucky | Idaho is great |
| 00:08.52 | goozbach | http://www.flooble.com/fun/bloggen.php |
| 00:09.05 | bucky | ever been to the Hemingway museum at BSU ? |
| 00:10.10 | levi | Newsome: But... but... that website just said Idaho doesn't exist! |
| 00:10.51 | levi | I think we must have been given hypnotically-implanted false memories, because I remember going there too. |
| 00:10.53 | Newsome | actually, the people up where I was weren't really very proud about calling it Idaho either. |
| 00:11.04 | bucky | 1,150-foot depth Lake Pend Oreille |
| 00:11.40 | bucky | third in per capita millionaires in the US |
| 00:11.53 | bucky | maybe second |
| 00:12.44 | levi | That was a nasty trick debian unstable played on me. It wanted a certain kernel version /running/ before it let me install a package, so I had to do all sorts of force-depends on the unconfigured kernel packages to get them to finish installing, and then reboot before I could continue. |
| 00:13.17 | Newsome | then some doofus started a town, but didn't like the "Pend Oreille" spelling, so they just named it "Ponderay" |
| 00:13.21 | levi | (this was in the midst of a dist-upgrade) |
| 00:16.25 | bucky | Newsome, that sounds more like the history of Provost |
| 00:17.20 | bucky | levi is there a reason you're running unstable? sata support or something? |
| 00:17.52 | levi | bucky: No, I just like having recent versions of stuff. |
| 00:18.03 | levi | And I've done it long enough I can deal with the breakage. |
| 00:18.53 | bucky | debian has been painful lately.. luckily, debian-amd64 sid seems more polished for some reason |
| 00:19.30 | bucky | but i didn't bother to set up my codecs in my 32 bit chroot and just live without them |
| 00:22.38 | bucky | another annoying trend with debian is aptitude and apt-get handle the package database differently... so i decide which one to use at the out set because using both doesn't work very well |
| 00:23.17 | bucky | their is a command that get those two dpkg front-ends on the same page but i forget what it is |
| 00:25.24 | bucky | i hate to say it but i probably would prefer Ubuntu for the desktop... but i hate desktop computing |
| 00:30.04 | hans | my beef with ubuntu is that it is harder to be up to date. I know that sounds weird, but it's true |
| 00:30.10 | levi | Sweet, I have an emulator of a MIT CADR Lisp Machine running. |
| 00:30.17 | hans | actually, maybe ubuntu has an unstable too. haven't pursued that option |
| 00:30.49 | hans | but ubuntu changes just enough from debian testing/unstable to make it dangerous to get stuff from unstable, and so you're stuck with the unstable snapshot which will be up to 6 months old |
| 00:32.08 | hans | levi: which package was that? sounds like a bug report needs to be written |
| 00:32.15 | sjansen | wow, "up to 6 months old" |
| 00:32.25 | sjansen | sounds like someone needs to switch to gentoo |
| 00:32.25 | hans | agreed, better than running debian stable |
| 00:32.37 | levi | hans: udev |
| 00:33.00 | hans | nah, I just need to stop running stuff that has been released recently. I don't usually mind older versions - it's the stuff that is brand new that gets me |
| 00:33.23 | hans | levi: ick. I've filed a couple of reports against that one. The maintainer belongs in gentoo, imho |
| 00:33.59 | hans | once he pulled in a patch that didn't work on < 2.6.8 so he just made udev not work on < 2.6.8 |
| 00:34.15 | hans | even though it worked perfectly fine if you weren't using whatever obscure thing the patch was for |
| 00:34.21 | hans | (even with the patch in) |
| 00:34.28 | levi | Heh. |
| 00:34.32 | levi | Idiot. |
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| 00:36.13 | levi | Heh, the CADR had y2k bugs. |
| 00:37.48 | sjansen | the good news is debian now has an official policy for evicting maintainers |
| 00:39.05 | levi | Sweet, I'm running zmacs on a CADR Lisp Machine emulator. |
| 00:42.47 | sjansen | levi - making it possible for regular geeks to feel normal |
| 00:44.32 | sjansen | here's an idea: build your own lisp machine using fpga's |
| 00:44.43 | sjansen | then put together a cool website and host details about the project |
| 00:44.51 | sjansen | just like the contiki people |
| 00:45.14 | levi | That would be kind of cool, actually. |
| 00:45.26 | sjansen | very cool |
| 00:45.34 | sjansen | major geek points |
| 00:47.46 | goozbach | ~lart stupid ldap problems |
| 00:51.01 | levi | I've actually got a board with a FPGA-based CPU on it. |
| 00:51.15 | levi | I don't think I have a license for the FPGA programming tool, though. |
| 00:53.46 | levi | Cool, it's got a semi-graphical mail program. |
| 00:54.31 | levi | It's cool to think that RMS hacked on one of these. |
| 00:57.09 | sjansen | wow, contiki even runs on the gameboy |
| 00:58.05 | bucky | levi, that is awsome... isn't there an FPGA group in utah |
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| 01:09.33 | goozbach | http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4133&n=2 |
| 01:13.55 | bucky | lol@ goozbach |
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| 03:13.14 | Maquis | Newsome: help! |
| 03:13.18 | Maquis | please!!! |
| 03:18.26 | byronc | Maquis: hello |
| 03:18.32 | Maquis | byronc: sup? |
| 03:18.36 | Maquis | how's it goin |
| 03:18.36 | Maquis | ? |
| 03:18.37 | levi | Maquis: What do you need? |
| 03:18.56 | Maquis | oit killed the uug server again |
| 03:19.02 | byronc | doh |
| 03:19.07 | Maquis | and i don't have rights to the cs dept stuff |
| 03:19.17 | Maquis | and if i did, i still wouldn't know what to do |
| 03:19.39 | byronc | where is phantom these days? is it still in the byusa offices? |
| 03:19.39 | levi | Heh. Stupid OIT. |
| 03:19.46 | Maquis | byronc: they've done this 5 times in the past week |
| 03:19.52 | Maquis | nope... we're in the tmcb now |
| 03:19.59 | Maquis | we're also no longer part of byusa |
| 03:20.01 | Maquis | ~cheer |
| 03:20.01 | ibot | shift to the left, unshift to the right, push down, pop up, byte byte byte. |
| 03:20.16 | Maquis | ibot: ummm... thanks? |
| 03:20.16 | ibot | no problem <who> |
| 03:20.37 | Maquis | byronc: what have you been up to recently? |
| 03:20.45 | byronc | is it on the cs network or the oit network? |
| 03:20.50 | Maquis | cs network... |
| 03:20.52 | byronc | Maquis: work, lots of work |
| 03:20.56 | Maquis | but oit has been messing with all the depts |
| 03:21.06 | Maquis | byronc: where did you first learn about kernel hacking? |
| 03:21.14 | Maquis | did you teach yourself? and if so, how? |
| 03:21.30 | levi | Maquis: The O'Reilly book on Kernel Device Drivers is good. |
| 03:22.02 | Maquis | levi: cool... i'm going to have to look into it... |
| 03:22.04 | byronc | Maquis: pretty much self taught. just dove in looking for a bug. |
| 03:22.10 | Maquis | byronc: cool... |
| 03:22.24 | byronc | the device drivers book is good, and the Robert Love book is incredible |
| 03:22.28 | levi | My impression is that the Linux kernel is a nasty ugly mess, though. |
| 03:22.41 | Maquis | if i have a separate box that i'm thinking about using solely for that, do i still need to use something like qemu? |
| 03:22.44 | levi | Not only that, but a constantly changing mess. |
| 03:23.01 | byronc | The mess isn't too bad if you stay out of certain parts |
| 03:23.01 | Maquis | byronc: Robert Love book? |
| 03:23.21 | byronc | most the mm and serial layers |
| 03:23.56 | byronc | Maquis: "Linux Kernel Development" Novell publishes it. |
| 03:24.23 | Maquis | byronc: i'm going to have to look into that |
| 03:24.28 | Maquis | how much is it? |
| 03:24.38 | levi | What version does it cover? |
| 03:25.01 | byronc | it's current to 2.6.10 if memory serves, I'll check |
| 03:25.07 | Maquis | wow... |
| 03:25.10 | Maquis | that's pretty good |
| 03:25.28 | Maquis | do you grab the daily-builds to work off of? |
| 03:25.30 | Maquis | or what? |
| 03:25.31 | levi | Gotta catch those books while they're fresh, since they go out of date quick. :) |
| 03:26.36 | byronc | Maquis: I found it best to have a stable base to get stuff working and then worry about porting it up to mainline. Just grab a stable kernel and stick with it till your stuff works. Trying to keep up with the API changes and your development will make it much harder. |
| 03:27.11 | Maquis | cool |
| 03:27.27 | levi | I wonder if the BSD kernel internals are any more stable. |
| 03:27.53 | Maquis | and should i still set up qemu if i'm devoting a computer to it? |
| 03:28.07 | byronc | as for using another box, you won't need qemu unless you plan on doing something destructive in the filesystems... of course it's always nice to roll back to a known good snapshot |
| 03:28.21 | byronc | although I don't know if qemu does that well. |
| 03:35.01 | Maquis | hmmm... |
| 03:35.15 | Maquis | in that case, i might not sell my old laptop right away... :) |
| 03:43.52 | Maquis | http://thedailywtf.com/forums/26245/ShowPost.aspx |
| 03:43.56 | Maquis | byronc: check that out! :) |
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| 03:56.02 | Newsome | Maquis: what did they do to get rid of phantom/uug? I've fixed this like 3 times in the last 2 weeks |
| 03:56.50 | Maquis | Newsome: i know you have |
| 03:56.56 | Maquis | they're just creative and don't like us |
| 03:57.10 | Maquis | phantom is now only at phantom.cs.byu.edu, not at phantom.byu.edu or at uug.byu.edu |
| 03:57.20 | Maquis | spr said that they're going to take care of it, though |
| 03:58.56 | Newsome | Maquis: Okay. I just set it _again_. |
| 04:00.08 | goozbach | the average american drings 52gallons of soda per year |
| 04:00.31 | goozbach | I think I averege that per week |
| 04:00.42 | Maquis | Newsome: thanks |
| 04:00.49 | Maquis | sorry to bug you about this so many times |
| 04:00.53 | Maquis | granted, if you hired me... |
| 04:01.05 | Maquis | goozbach: that's disgusting |
| 04:01.25 | goozbach | I had 7 glasses of soda at dinner tonight |
| 04:02.24 | goozbach | that's like a gallon and a half |
| 04:07.16 | goozbach | bank one ballpark is small |
| 04:08.37 | goozbach | it's going to be great |
| 04:08.56 | goozbach | I think I'll see if I can't get a ticket to the pool area |
| 04:09.34 | goozbach | watching the game from deep left center, IN a POOL! nonetheless, is kinda fun |
| 04:11.51 | goozbach | meh, I've got a bladder that can handle 3.7l |
| 04:12.15 | goozbach | the only reason I know that was a recent hospital stay where I had an IV |
| 04:12.17 | JoshH | i used to swill soda like that when i was a kid |
| 04:12.21 | JoshH | but these days i can barely finish 2 cans |
| 04:12.42 | JoshH | i remember one day when i was 13 or 14 |
| 04:12.55 | JoshH | i was working outside one day and i had 26 cans of pepsi and mountain dew |
| 04:12.59 | JoshH | i think thats my record |
| 04:13.13 | goozbach | the poor nurse had to run back to the supply closet and grab another metered urinal. |
| 04:14.36 | goozbach | W00t!!! |
| 04:14.41 | goozbach | I get to go to anehiem |
| 04:14.55 | JoshH | that ballpark sucks though |
| 04:15.47 | goozbach | JoshH: you're right |
| 04:16.03 | goozbach | I think the coolest 'new' stadium is Turner Field |
| 04:16.22 | goozbach | I mean where else can you find a 6-story HD display? |
| 04:16.49 | JoshH | actually the only mlb park ive been to is the ballpark in arlington |
| 04:16.56 | JoshH | but ive heard anaheims park is nothing special |
| 04:17.57 | goozbach | http://www.friocorte.com/talam/photo?photo_id=3181 |
| 04:18.33 | goozbach | there's always the cool old stadiums. fenway, wrigley, etc... |
| 04:19.08 | JoshH | wrigley, fenway, yankee, and dodger would be the ones i want to go to the most |
| 04:19.25 | goozbach | oh yeah! |
| 04:19.39 | goozbach | yankee stadium is neat as well |
| 04:19.59 | JoshH | the ballpark in arlington was pretty cool though imo, it really blows away franklin covey field at least. :P |
| 04:20.22 | goozbach | heh |
| 04:20.50 | JoshH | utah needs more pro sports teams |
| 04:20.59 | JoshH | i know everyone says we dont have enough people, but i think thats crap |
| 04:21.00 | Supaplex | and people named Josh |
| 04:21.13 | JoshH | there are enough bored people in this state to pack a huge football or baseball stadium |
| 04:21.15 | goozbach | JoshH: find sports that don't play on sunday and then we can tlake |
| 04:21.18 | goozbach | er talk |
| 04:21.25 | JoshH | the jazz sell out on sunday |
| 04:21.33 | JoshH | i dont think that would be as much of a problem as people think |
| 04:21.34 | goozbach | I'm hyper-suprised that they do |
| 04:21.50 | JoshH | i know tons of mormons who go shopping and go to movies and whatnot on sunday |
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| 04:22.05 | Supaplex | they'll get their reward :) |
| 04:22.09 | JoshH | lol |
| 04:22.39 | goozbach | I go out to eat almost every sunday |
| 04:22.41 | JoshH | what, only the second best heaven? :P it's worth it to live a life in a sports town |
| 04:22.54 | goozbach | heh! |
| 04:23.40 | JoshH | the guy that brought the jazz here was called an idiot by all the naysayers |
| 04:23.44 | JoshH | but they turned out wrong |
| 04:23.57 | JoshH | real salt lake is doing pretty well and i can count the people i know who dont hate soccer on one hand |
| 04:24.18 | goozbach | I've been wanting to go to a Real game |
| 04:24.31 | goozbach | problem is that I don't know anyone who wants to go |
| 04:24.42 | JoshH | me neither |
| 04:24.46 | JoshH | but apparently a lot of people do go |
| 04:25.05 | JoshH | but if we had an nfl team in town, i guarantee it would be packed for every game |
| 04:25.07 | goozbach | let's start the offical #utah Real trip |
| 04:25.31 | JoshH | of course, the tv market would be tiny, and i guess thats what really matters |
| 04:25.32 | dataw0lf- | alot of geeks I hang out with go regularly. |
| 04:26.05 | JoshH | have you been? |
| 04:26.23 | dataw0lf- | No, watching soccer, to me, is the equivalent of having teeth pulled. |
| 04:26.54 | JoshH | same, and most people i have discussed it with agree |
| 04:27.02 | dataw0lf- | it's a great sport. |
| 04:27.07 | dataw0lf- | just not very enjoyable to watch |
| 04:27.15 | JoshH | its like the utah grizzlies |
| 04:27.21 | JoshH | the only part about hockey that i like is the fighting |
| 04:27.27 | dataw0lf- | whoa |
| 04:27.30 | JoshH | but they get pretty decent attendance |
| 04:27.31 | dataw0lf- | hockey is a great sport to watch |
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| 04:27.58 | JoshH | ive never been much of a hockey lover |
| 04:28.03 | JoshH | but i would rather watch it than soccer |
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| 04:29.16 | Supaplex | I'd rather listen to knobtweakers.net |
| 04:29.20 | Supaplex | but that's just me |
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| 04:34.37 | JoshH | ill be watching that |
| 04:35.12 | bigdog_ut | no doubt |
| 04:35.23 | bigdog_ut | i want to see diego fight...wondering how good he is |
| 04:35.42 | JoshH | i wouldnt want to find out first hand :P |
| 04:36.02 | bigdog_ut | yeah...but i really want to the "the natural" fight |
| 04:36.15 | JoshH | i dont think my green belt in taikwando that i got when i was 12 would be of much use against him |
| 04:37.38 | bigdog_ut | i wish matt hughes was fighting though...that man is one of the best |
| 04:40.42 | bigdog_ut | http://www.ufc.tv/multimedia/photoGallery_full_loader.asp?feature=photo&assetID=1835 |
| 04:40.57 | bigdog_ut | i cant believe he got out of this choke |
| 04:42.24 | bigdog_ut | this was a great fight -> http://www.ufc.tv/multimedia/photoGallery_full_loader.asp?feature=photo&assetID=1835 |
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| 06:16.25 | goozbach | getopts++ |
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| 06:23.17 | xbmodder | getopts++ |
| 06:23.29 | xbmodder | Maquis_, hey? are you Maq |
| 06:41.11 | goozbach | getoptsx++ |
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| 14:23.03 | JoshH | dataw0lf: lol, you gotta be more careful when passing out in a hotel man |
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| 14:27.21 | dataw0lf | JoshH: yeah, tell me about it. It was my RL roommate's hotel room, though. |
| 14:27.42 | dataw0lf | so I kinda, I dunno, felt comfortable. I had no idea his friend was a homosexual rapist. |
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| 14:28.59 | JoshH | thats pretty insane |
| 14:29.24 | dataw0lf | JoshH: if I had any idea that anyone besides people who know the whole story would read the blog, I probably would've clarified a bit. |
| 14:30.06 | dataw0lf | Coates likes to redirect attention away from himself (unless he happens to be patting himself on the back ) as much as possible though. I should've expected it. |
| 14:31.49 | JoshH | ive noticed he never really contributes anything useful to the list, he just takes little potshots during the flamewars |
| 14:32.07 | JoshH | i dont contribute anything useful either, but i also avoid the flamewars |
| 14:33.11 | JoshH | that was definitely pretty lame to pull up a lame "gay bashing" from your blog |
| 14:35.49 | dataw0lf | It happens. |
| 14:35.50 | vontrapp | oh boy, another flame war? |
| 14:36.36 | dataw0lf | well, the one from yesterday labeled 'flame war' |
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| 14:37.14 | dataw0lf | Coates kinda attacked Maquis so I stepped in *shrug* he still isn't trimming his posts. |
| 14:37.38 | vontrapp | haha |
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| 14:56.43 | Maquis_ | dataw0lf: thanks for stepping in... |
| 14:57.15 | dataw0lf | Maquis_: meh, sorry it dissolved into an argument completely unrelated. |
| 14:57.34 | dataw0lf | I thought he came across as pretty harsh in his post to you, I dunno if anyone else got that feeling.. |
| 14:58.23 | vontrapp | i did, and was pretty close to responding "And yours wasn't" to his post about hers being kinda funny, but i resisted |
| 14:59.04 | Maquis_ | dataw0lf: i got that feeling, but i wasn't certain if that was just because i was the one being attacked |
| 14:59.07 | vontrapp | i did respond to gay bashing though |
| 14:59.28 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@64.50.35.114.2O7.net) |
| 14:59.42 | dataw0lf | I'm pretty sure he does. |
| 14:59.51 | dataw0lf | he made the uug reference to you |
| 14:59.57 | Maquis_ | i mean, i doubt he just "stumbled" across dataw0lf's blog right before posting that comment |
| 14:59.57 | dataw0lf | then made the gay bashing reference to me. |
| 15:00.22 | dataw0lf | he seems to like to attack people quite a bit *shrug* |
| 15:00.22 | Maquis_ | that's pretty stupid |
| 15:02.35 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208-186-97-26.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 15:02.41 | mheath | Hahaha: "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." |
| 15:02.55 | wps | you are correct, dataw0lf |
| 15:03.02 | wps | I have been very unimpressed with josh |
| 15:03.12 | wps | he rarely has anything good to say |
| 15:03.28 | dataw0lf | yeah, he seems pretty negative. |
| 15:03.58 | vontrapp | i've seen a couple redeeming posts from him, but not many |
| 15:04.14 | *** part/#utah ralphsnart (i=fwuser@66.187.129.78) |
| 15:07.45 | *** join/#utah joshc (i=joshc@208.187.239.18) |
| 15:07.59 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:08.25 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:09.03 | Maquis_ | ~lart joshc |
| 15:09.19 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:09.37 | dataw0lf | why do I have to be like that? |
| 15:09.42 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:09.49 | dataw0lf | you attacked me when all I was saying was 'Stop the hate!' |
| 15:10.06 | goozbach | oh hell... here goes again... |
| 15:10.06 | dataw0lf | did you google for 'dataw0lf hate' and see if you could find something to leverage against me? |
| 15:10.12 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:10.22 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@208.177.141.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 15:10.29 | dataw0lf | I'm not the one looking like an arse, here, joshc. Enough said. |
| 15:10.30 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:10.36 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:11.10 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:11.32 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:11.38 | dataw0lf | Um, it has nothing to do with sex. |
| 15:11.44 | *** mode/#utah [+o hans] by ChanServ |
| 15:11.46 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:11.48 | dataw0lf | Nice diversion attempt again. |
| 15:11.50 | *** mode/#utah [+m] by hans |
| 15:13.32 | *** join/#utah joshc (i=joshc@208.187.239.18) |
| 15:13.53 | *** part/#utah joshc (i=joshc@208.187.239.18) |
| 15:15.56 | *** mode/#utah [+v vontrapp] by hans |
| 15:16.01 | *** mode/#utah [+v sjansen] by hans |
| 15:16.05 | *** mode/#utah [+v ibot] by hans |
| 15:16.10 | hans | ~lart sjansen |
| 15:16.26 | vontrapp | +v? |
| 15:16.36 | vontrapp | oh |
| 15:16.49 | *** mode/#utah [-m] by hans |
| 15:16.56 | dataw0lf | mrawr. |
| 15:16.57 | dataw0lf | Sorry. |
| 15:17.03 | Maquis_ | ??? |
| 15:17.16 | vontrapp | that's why it got quiet |
| 15:17.21 | hans | i don't mind the bickering, just take it off list/channel |
| 15:17.36 | dataw0lf | Wow, that's a new one, hehe. |
| 15:18.09 | dataw0lf | Is this a new leaf for PLUG / #utah? |
| 15:18.16 | *** topic/#utah by hans -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feed |
| 15:18.26 | hans | well, I could put plug in moderation mode too |
| 15:18.33 | Maquis_ | haha |
| 15:18.41 | Maquis_ | you'd have a busy day keepipng things moving, though |
| 15:18.42 | hans | but it'd be too much work to do it every time a flamewar started. :) |
| 15:18.43 | levi | hans: Someone took you up on the Pentium Pro? |
| 15:18.46 | JoshH | dont do that, im all out of reading material this morning |
| 15:18.56 | hans | levi: no, but I'm going to take it to DI today |
| 15:19.01 | hans | if anyone wants it, it's still here |
| 15:19.02 | JoshH | there needs to be a plug-flame@plug.org list |
| 15:19.13 | dataw0lf | I like how Coates did the whole fakeout thing. |
| 15:19.20 | dataw0lf | hehe. |
| 15:19.21 | JoshH | hans: are you just giving it away? |
| 15:19.24 | hans | with fuzzy logic that sends it to the other list |
| 15:19.25 | hans | yeah |
| 15:19.49 | JoshH | what are the specs? i might be able to swing a trip down to provo later tonight |
| 15:20.20 | hans | well let me fire it up and get you the precise specs. (gotta wipe the hdd anyway) |
| 15:20.35 | levi | I think 'Pentium Pro' is enough spec to know it's DI-worthy. ;) |
| 15:20.54 | JoshH | well, i could use a new router or something |
| 15:22.18 | hans | yeah, makes a good router or low-volume mail server |
| 15:22.20 | mheath | JoshH: take some of my hardware |
| 15:22.30 | JoshH | what do you have? |
| 15:22.35 | hans | you wouldn't have to come down tonight |
| 15:22.42 | hans | I could leave it with vontrapp or something. |
| 15:22.56 | dataw0lf | speaking of hardware, anyone looking for any snazzy SATA drives? |
| 15:22.59 | JoshH | whatever works |
| 15:23.02 | mheath | Three Pentium 1s, a couple pentium 2s, a dual processor pentium 2, an old sun ultra enterprise 1 |
| 15:23.08 | JoshH | dataw0lf: if youre giving them away, i am |
| 15:23.20 | JoshH | if youre selling them for cheap, i am |
| 15:23.22 | hans | i can use sata drives |
| 15:23.25 | JoshH | if youre selling them for a lot, then i dunno |
| 15:23.38 | dataw0lf | JoshH: selling them, I got ten WD Raptors @ 36gigs for 20 bucks each. |
| 15:23.53 | mheath | This is all stuff I have to clear out soon |
| 15:24.06 | JoshH | youre selling them for 20, or you got them for 20? |
| 15:24.16 | dataw0lf | selling them. |
| 15:24.39 | JoshH | sweet, ill probably buy a couple, if you have any on saturday |
| 15:24.57 | dataw0lf | alright |
| 15:25.08 | levi | I wouldn't mind a SATA drive. |
| 15:25.12 | dataw0lf | I'll let you know, I gotta make sure they're all good. |
| 15:25.19 | JoshH | ok, cool |
| 15:25.35 | mheath | no one interested? This hardware is going in the garbage if no one claims it, basically |
| 15:25.46 | mheath | except for the sun server...I could never throw that out =P |
| 15:25.54 | JoshH | mheath: the dual p2 could be interesting, is it a complete system? |
| 15:26.35 | mheath | JoshH: the P2 system has a problem |
| 15:26.36 | vontrapp | if anyone is giving away tv tuner cards, i'll take those |
| 15:26.50 | mheath | its a weird form factor....I have the case, but its missing a lot of pieces..... |
| 15:26.52 | JoshH | what problem? |
| 15:26.55 | levi | Anyone giving away any Opteron systems? |
| 15:26.59 | JoshH | lol |
| 15:27.16 | dataw0lf | I'm getting a bunch of hardware for free from work, it's pretty sweet. |
| 15:27.39 | mheath | I was working a while back on making a new case for it out of plexiglass, but I didn't have enough time |
| 15:29.26 | mheath | JoshH: other than that, though, all the other systems are 100% intact and in 100% working order |
| 15:30.33 | JoshH | dont you live in ogden? |
| 15:30.42 | mheath | Yep. |
| 15:31.14 | hans | joshh, it's still doing a POST |
| 15:31.16 | hans | :) |
| 15:31.21 | JoshH | i could use a p1 that has at least 64mb of ram, preferably 128, and an hd bigger than a couple gigs |
| 15:31.52 | JoshH | or at least a couple gigs i guess |
| 15:32.09 | mheath | JoshH: I could give you a P1 with 128 and like an 8 gig HDD |
| 15:32.41 | hans | you're stealing my customer! |
| 15:32.50 | JoshH | that would be awesome. do you ever get down to slc? i could cruise up to ogden this weekend sometime. |
| 15:33.05 | mheath | JoshH: I'll be down in SLC this weekend |
| 15:33.12 | JoshH | what day? |
| 15:33.14 | mheath | up at Fort Dogulas |
| 15:33.17 | mheath | Saturday and Sunday |
| 15:33.18 | hans | i'll be in slc tonight |
| 15:33.41 | JoshH | heh, cool, i might get two boxes then |
| 15:34.07 | JoshH | well ill be busy until about 7:30-8 tonight, but i can meet people wherever after that |
| 15:34.12 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 15:34.12 | mheath | I still don't get why people are more interested in a P1 system than a nice Sun server |
| 15:34.29 | JoshH | hey, bring it too :) |
| 15:34.40 | JoshH | brb |
| 15:35.07 | hans | heh. ok, here's the stats. pentium pro 180mhz 159mb diskette cdrom |
| 15:35.48 | hans | scsi |
| 15:36.19 | hans | it's an ibm server, for whatever benefits that has over regular old pcs |
| 15:38.36 | hans | it's fun to shred the root partition |
| 15:38.38 | levi | Heh, fun 'heated discussion' on Lambda the Ultimate about research journals and their usefulness. |
| 15:38.39 | *** join/#utah respli1 (n=richard@208.187.239.18) |
| 15:38.39 | hans | while it's running |
| 15:38.49 | vontrapp | waoh, thinkgeek has sliderules |
| 15:38.54 | *** join/#utah resplin (n=richard@208.187.239.18) |
| 15:39.00 | jsmith | vontrapp: Cool, huh... I need to buy me one. |
| 15:40.18 | hans | abacuses? |
| 15:40.22 | levi | hans: If you don't read LtU, then you should start. |
| 15:42.16 | hans | JoshH: 2g hdd |
| 15:42.42 | JoshH | when and where will you be in slc tonight hans? |
| 15:43.03 | hans | going to dinner around 32nd south, dinner at 6 |
| 15:45.40 | JoshH | hmm, ill be up on foothill until about 730, then ill be by the cottonwood mall after that |
| 15:51.29 | *** join/#utah joshc (i=joshc@208.187.239.18) |
| 15:51.37 | joshc | we still mod'd? |
| 15:51.45 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:53.09 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:55.44 | hans | i think we can handle it |
| 15:56.08 | tene_ | go right ahead. |
| 15:56.23 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:56.24 | tene_ | but if you use the word "aardvark", we'll be forced to kill you. |
| 15:56.27 | tene_ | eh? |
| 15:56.36 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:56.37 | tene_ | I'm not familiar with it by name... |
| 15:56.39 | JoshH | its not |
| 15:56.59 | JoshH | its just a man's natural instinct to defend a woman |
| 15:57.00 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:57.09 | JoshH | unless he is some rapist or something, of course |
| 15:57.30 | dataw0lf | I guess me supporting sjansen a couple days ago in another flame fest makes him a woman. |
| 15:57.33 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:57.33 | Maquis | JoshH: i've seen both the 'white knight' and 'black knight' phenomena |
| 15:57.47 | dataw0lf | Sorry sjansen. |
| 15:57.48 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:58.03 | Maquis | joshc: the opposite of the white-knight |
| 15:58.06 | JoshH | people automatically assuming she is clueless because she is a woman? |
| 15:58.12 | Maquis | yup |
| 15:58.20 | hans | sjansen is a woman? woah, that makes his beard even more impressive |
| 15:58.30 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:58.58 | Maquis | joshc: that and a few other things |
| 15:59.04 | dataw0lf | 'go back to uug and post a test thread or something' I would've responded whether or not she was female. |
| 15:59.31 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@128.187.241.31) |
| 15:59.33 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:59.39 | dataw0lf | However, there might be weight to someone jumping to the conclusion that people are defending someone just because there a woman, rather than the fact that the offensive party is, you know, an ass. |
| 15:59.47 | dataw0lf | s/there/their |
| 15:59.54 | dataw0lf | s/they're/their |
| 15:59.56 | dataw0lf | mrawr |
| 15:59.57 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:00.20 | tene_ | killing someone because that person isn't a woman? |
| 16:00.25 | vontrapp | rwarm |
| 16:00.51 | dataw0lf | ~lart vontrapp |
| 16:01.06 | vontrapp | ibot, thanks |
| 16:01.06 | ibot | vontrapp: bitte |
| 16:01.11 | vontrapp | ? |
| 16:01.17 | hans | please? please is a response to thanks? |
| 16:01.18 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:01.18 | dataw0lf | German. |
| 16:01.24 | hans | maybe my german is bad |
| 16:01.25 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:01.27 | Maquis | joshc: there are plenty of things... situations where the person is attacking the person because they're a woman |
| 16:01.31 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:01.42 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:01.49 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:02.02 | dataw0lf | joshc: you don't think your post was a tad bit offensive? |
| 16:02.09 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:02.12 | Maquis | joshc: i think that in the situation where there's a bunch o geeks with one or two women, you'll see both situations if you're keeping your eyes open |
| 16:02.16 | vontrapp | joshc: i don't think you need techies to observe that |
| 16:02.33 | tene_ | Maquis: I assert that you are incompetent based solely on the fact that you are female, despite my past experience with you. |
| 16:02.38 | dataw0lf | joshc: or that, 99% of the time, you don't have anything constructive to say, you just take pot shots? |
| 16:02.55 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:03.09 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:03.20 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:03.29 | dataw0lf | You're missing the whole point! |
| 16:03.38 | dataw0lf | You're an a**hole! |
| 16:03.50 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:04.15 | levi | dataw0lf: If you ignore him, too, we'll all be one step closer to peace of mind. |
| 16:04.17 | dataw0lf | For the record, if it had been anyone else, I would've said the same thing. |
| 16:04.24 | dataw0lf | levi: roger |
| 16:04.56 | hans | i love it. one of my texts for this semester is an oreilly book |
| 16:05.02 | levi | hans: Mine, too. |
| 16:05.06 | JoshH | what one? |
| 16:05.15 | levi | hans: Head First Design Patterns, or something like that. |
| 16:05.30 | hans | tell me how it is, that one sounds interesting |
| 16:05.30 | Maquis | joshc: i don't think that the guys defending the woman is necessarily sexism |
| 16:05.37 | jsmith | hans: That's a good book... send me a copy! |
| 16:05.40 | levi | Too bad we're not using the GOF book, though. |
| 16:05.46 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:05.46 | Maquis | i think that often it's a situation where they see someone getting picked on, and they respond to defend the person |
| 16:05.56 | Maquis | in tech circles, it tends to often be the woman getting picked on |
| 16:06.09 | Maquis | i'm not saying that this particular case was that way, but i'd say that a lot of times it is |
| 16:06.10 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:06.10 | tene_ | joshc: do basically you're saying "sometimes some people are sexist" |
| 16:06.13 | hans | jsmith: did you mean levi? I haven't announced my book yet :) |
| 16:06.13 | tene_ | s/do/so/ |
| 16:06.24 | hans | I'm still going to look it up. understanding the linux kernel iirc |
| 16:06.34 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:06.44 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:07.07 | Maquis | joshc: if they wouldn't defend the person if it had been a guy, then yes |
| 16:07.20 | levi | I've no doubt that there's sexism in the industry, and I wouldn't be surprised if there's a higher incidence of it in Utah. |
| 16:07.25 | hans | ~lart tene_ |
| 16:07.35 | JoshH | personally, i admit that i am less quick to defend a guy than a woman, maybe that makes me sexist, i dunno |
| 16:07.38 | JoshH | but it seems normal to me |
| 16:07.46 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:07.54 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:07.56 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:07.59 | dataw0lf | Maquis: I think we've concluded that he makes large, illogical conclusions based on spurious information to try to excuse his behavior. |
| 16:08.03 | Maquis | i think that given the other situations in the industry, it's pretty refreshing, though |
| 16:08.09 | levi | Utah does have a strong tendency towards specific gender roles. |
| 16:08.18 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:08.22 | Maquis | in the industry, there's a good deal of negative sexism |
| 16:08.23 | JoshH | but im also more quick than most to speak up when i think an unqualified woman is being promoted because she has boobs |
| 16:08.34 | JoshH | which ive seen happen more than once |
| 16:08.38 | hans | yup, understanding the linux kernel |
| 16:09.04 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:09.08 | Maquis | JoshH: that makes me mad too... the unfortunate part is that some people assume that any time a woman is promoted, it's for that reason... |
| 16:09.50 | JoshH | right |
| 16:09.53 | Maquis | joshc: no... negative sexism is the idea that if a woman gets a job or a promotion, it's because they got a "leg up" with affirmative action or because the manager thought they were cute or anything like that |
| 16:10.11 | JoshH | its the same thing with minorities who get promoted... a lot of people just automatically think "affirmative action" |
| 16:10.12 | Maquis | some people have an assumption that women are inherently less qualified, or that a woman can't be qualified for certain thing |
| 16:10.16 | Maquis | s |
| 16:10.16 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:10.21 | Maquis | yeah |
| 16:10.25 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:10.35 | Maquis | it's a really stupid phenomena |
| 16:10.44 | Maquis | i think that affirmative action in general is stupid, though |
| 16:10.56 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:11.15 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:11.25 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:11.36 | Maquis | joshc: if there wasn't any negative sexism, i think that positive sexism would go down quite a bit in the field |
| 16:11.43 | JoshH | joshc: do you think women should be in frontline infantry units? |
| 16:11.44 | Maquis | i think there wouldn't be a need for the |
| 16:11.44 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:11.52 | Maquis | "encouraging women in computers" programs |
| 16:11.54 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:11.56 | Maquis | and all of that |
| 16:12.06 | Maquis | JoshH: i don't either |
| 16:12.08 | dataw0lf | JoshH: there are specific reasons behind that though. |
| 16:12.16 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:12.40 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:12.58 | Maquis | i think that what we've done in the military is make the requirements different between men and women for being in frontline infantry units |
| 16:13.06 | Maquis | i don't think that's fair to anyone involved |
| 16:13.16 | levi | joshc: The fact that women are so rare in the tech field is part of the problem, I think. For one thing, a lot of tech-oriented men don't have a lot of social exposure to women, so they don't think about them as 'just other people'. |
| 16:13.20 | JoshH | im just saying we can never have real equality unless we go all out |
| 16:13.30 | dataw0lf | Maquis: 'requirements different' ? Women aren't in frontline infantry units. |
| 16:13.39 | dataw0lf | And infantry units aren't frontline to begin with, anyways. |
| 16:13.40 | Maquis | dataw0lf: sorry... in military units in general |
| 16:13.44 | JoshH | if women get paid the same as men for the same work (and they should), then why should men continue to be expected to be the main providers for a family? |
| 16:13.44 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:13.46 | dataw0lf | Maquis: ah, roger. |
| 16:13.53 | Maquis | sorry... i don't know the military things... |
| 16:14.02 | dataw0lf | just attempting to explain. |
| 16:14.06 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:14.11 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:14.33 | dataw0lf | So basically I'm a sexist and a homophobe, I'm glad I someone did some soul searching for me on _that_ particular topic. |
| 16:15.01 | dataw0lf | mrawr. |
| 16:15.40 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:15.43 | Maquis | women in CS have plenty of frustrating situations during career fairs and job interviews and such |
| 16:15.56 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:16.00 | Jayce^ | joshc, you taking the jeep to the lehi car thing this weekend? |
| 16:16.03 | Maquis | joshc: here's a situation and tell me if it's deserved or not |
| 16:16.03 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:16.16 | Maquis | a girl and a guy are at a career fair... |
| 16:16.22 | Maquis | the girl starts asking the recruiter questiosn |
| 16:16.22 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:16.31 | Maquis | he listens to the question, then turns to the guy and answers |
| 16:16.36 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:16.38 | Maquis | the girl asks another question |
| 16:16.42 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:16.42 | Maquis | the same thing happens |
| 16:16.45 | Maquis | another situation |
| 16:16.48 | Jayce^ | joshc, mostly a cruise, but still, would be cool |
| 16:16.53 | Maquis | girl is in an interview |
| 16:16.57 | Maquis | interview's going pretty well |
| 16:17.52 | Maquis | then the interviewer says "well, we generally try to fill all of our minority and female quotas with interns, so you should receive an offer" |
| 16:17.58 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:18.01 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:18.01 | Maquis | joshc: those aren't things i'm just making up |
| 16:18.04 | Maquis | they've actually happened |
| 16:18.14 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:18.22 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:18.23 | levi | I think a certain amount of sexism is wired into human brains, even more so than skin-color prejudices are. Of course it can be overcome, and not everyone reacts to it the same way, but it's there nonetheless. |
| 16:18.24 | Maquis | and they're not exceptionally rare |
| 16:18.29 | shadoi | oi.. not you 3 again. |
| 16:18.35 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:18.37 | Maquis | shadoi: sorry |
| 16:18.44 | Jayce^ | Maquis, that happens a lot in colleges too... I was actually told by one college they couldn't accpet more non-minorities.... |
| 16:19.02 | Maquis | Jayce^: my dad saw that at medical school |
| 16:19.05 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:19.12 | Maquis | when he was going, they had their quotas at admissions |
| 16:19.16 | JoshH | Maquis: society is just a mess these days in that regard... it all comes down to a zealous pc attitude that we should counteract the country' |
| 16:19.27 | JoshH | s history of racism and sexism with AA and diversity |
| 16:19.31 | Maquis | JoshH: yeah... but it's stupid |
| 16:19.31 | Jayce^ | joshc, that's because everybody trying to go to berkely is some form of *special* case :)( |
| 16:19.39 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:19.48 | Maquis | it just causes more problems than it solves |
| 16:20.08 | JoshH | heh, in northern california the problem is trying to fill your quota of straight white males |
| 16:20.12 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:20.15 | neybar_work | heh |
| 16:20.37 | Maquis | i think a lot of the negative stereotypes of women in the industry would be lessened if it weren't for all the effort to get women into the field |
| 16:20.49 | Jayce^ | JoshH, too bad they can't make that quote, woulda helped me out earlier in life :) |
| 16:20.52 | Maquis | joshc: i hope not.... |
| 16:20.54 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:21.14 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:21.15 | Maquis | joshc: at least the thoughts that people are just AA promotes or AA hires would be lessened |
| 16:21.20 | JoshH | if geeks could get laid more, none of this would even be an issue |
| 16:21.22 | neybar_work | joshc, it is double compounded in "geek" industries because we are generally socially inept anyway, so you add polical fire to the mix and bad things are bound to happen :) |
| 16:21.27 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:21.36 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:21.59 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:23.05 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:23.18 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:23.59 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:24.09 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:24.16 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:25.38 | Jayce^ | sounds like unions :) |
| 16:26.21 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:26.40 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:26.41 | Jayce^ | but they are in society |
| 16:26.52 | *** join/#utah jakea (n=jakea@128.187.238.108) |
| 16:28.33 | *** join/#utah sorenson (n=sorenson@ip-64-32-195-35.iad.megapath.net) |
| 16:29.06 | JoshH | i think unions are bad in principle, but they wouldnt have ever been created if employers werent trying to screw their workers in the first place. i think that as outsourcing continues to get worse, its only a matter of time before the labor force starts to rebel again. |
| 16:29.30 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:29.57 | JoshH | but with the way most americans are so fat, lazy and apathetic these days, who knows |
| 16:30.37 | dataw0lf | Indeed. Or, completely misled if they're not apathetic. |
| 16:30.38 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:30.43 | JoshH | i dont even think congress bringing back the draft would be enough to get the mindless masses off their couches away from american idol |
| 16:31.03 | dataw0lf | JoshH: we'll see in 4-6 years ;) |
| 16:31.15 | JoshH | probably |
| 16:31.57 | vontrapp | the draft is an interesting thing |
| 16:32.11 | Newsome | what about American Geek, or American Perlmonger? |
| 16:32.15 | sjansen | How'd I know I'd find a bunch of joshc and dataw0lf traffic if I glanced at #utah? |
| 16:32.24 | vontrapp | i mean, i guess it's bad to force people to go fight when they don't want to |
| 16:32.32 | dataw0lf | sjansen: Magic? |
| 16:32.42 | sjansen | Must be it. |
| 16:32.49 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:32.59 | vontrapp | but what about people like me who would never voluntarily join the army, but yet would be perfectly happy to serve the country when asked to |
| 16:33.11 | dataw0lf | vontrapp: I laugh quietly at you. |
| 16:33.24 | neybar_work | why? |
| 16:33.32 | vontrapp | dataw0lf: well, provided it's needed |
| 16:33.33 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:33.50 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:34.02 | dataw0lf | neybar_work: because I volunteered. I can only imagine what would have been going through my head if I was drafted. |
| 16:34.11 | dataw0lf | probably the quickest route to Canada. |
| 16:35.04 | dataw0lf | vontrapp: would you be perfectly happy to be recruited into ... say ... the Iraq situation? |
| 16:35.16 | JoshH | in a situation like WW2, support for a draft would be pretty high. but if they bring back the draft for iraq, or even iran or whatever country is next on the list, it will be a different story. even a lot of the die hard bush worshippers are starting to have doubts about the war. |
| 16:35.28 | vontrapp | see my "provided it's necessary" comment |
| 16:35.32 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:35.37 | dataw0lf | vontrapp: well, that's what I'm asking. |
| 16:35.41 | sjansen | dataw0lf: don't worry, there's nothing you can do (without a sharp object) to threaten my sexual identity |
| 16:35.41 | dataw0lf | 4-6 years, it will be necessary. |
| 16:35.44 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:35.44 | dataw0lf | Stopless ends. |
| 16:35.44 | hans | anyone know dhl's shipping policy? if I order standard ground today and ship it to my new address, will it show up monday or later? |
| 16:35.52 | vontrapp | iraq is not necessary, so no |
| 16:35.52 | dataw0lf | sjansen: hehe |
| 16:36.12 | dataw0lf | err s/stopless/stoploss |
| 16:36.32 | dataw0lf | Now THAT (when Stop Loss ends) is going to be interesting. |
| 16:36.33 | JoshH | hans: if it ever shows up at all :P |
| 16:36.39 | hans | in other words, it's not going to go back to sender is it? |
| 16:36.59 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:37.00 | hans | JoshH: bad luck with DHL? |
| 16:37.14 | JoshH | used to get complaints about them breaking stuff all the time when i worked at overstock |
| 16:37.23 | jsmith | hans: DHL is awful. |
| 16:37.31 | hans | well it's just a book. not easy to break. |
| 16:37.39 | jsmith | hans: Do you want the book? |
| 16:37.40 | vontrapp | joshc: read, "when it's to DEFEND the country" |
| 16:38.00 | vontrapp | and not to construe that defense in strange ways |
| 16:38.05 | hans | yup |
| 16:38.11 | hans | is dhl that bad? |
| 16:38.12 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:38.21 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:38.32 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:38.40 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:38.48 | vontrapp | that's true, it's not easy |
| 16:38.48 | neybar_work | I agree |
| 16:39.18 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:39.33 | JoshH | honestly i do think that bringing democracy to the middle east is a huge part of "winning the war on terror", but the bush administration has been bungling iraq pretty badly. and i think its pretty low of bush not to talk to that protester lady face to face. |
| 16:39.50 | vontrapp | maybe we should just have a draft warning, "there will be a draft, if you do not like our current war, move out of the country" |
| 16:39.53 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:39.58 | JoshH | when? |
| 16:40.01 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:40.04 | Jayce^ | JoshH, how could it be low, he already did.. |
| 16:40.08 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:40.12 | sjansen | *sigh* |
| 16:40.24 | JoshH | the last time i read about it (yesterday) she was still waiting. |
| 16:40.29 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:40.39 | Jayce^ | yup, and she went on the record then of hour great he was, and how nice he tried... her current story is the opposite |
| 16:40.56 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:40.58 | Jayce^ | she was quoted in her local paper saying to opposite of what she says now |
| 16:41.06 | JoshH | i didnt know that she talked to him a long time ago. |
| 16:41.15 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:41.17 | vontrapp | sjansen: are you just now reading the plug mails or talking about current conversation? |
| 16:41.19 | Jayce^ | yeah, just after he died |
| 16:41.26 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:41.31 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:41.38 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:41.43 | Jayce^ | currently she is just a tool for people who like to go after anything they can.. |
| 16:41.43 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:41.43 | sjansen | Up her in Cananda, I saw something strange on the news. An honest news report. The reporter admitting the only reason the whole thing matters is that August is a slow news month. |
| 16:41.47 | JoshH | the flip flopper |
| 16:41.53 | sjansen | vontrapp: both |
| 16:42.11 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: anything they can? I think the Iraqi War is a valid target for people to 'go after'. |
| 16:42.13 | Jayce^ | sjansen, it's the truth, August really is a slow new month for some reason.. |
| 16:42.34 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf, these are the same people who will attack anybody for being different |
| 16:42.53 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:42.58 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: I certainly don't think that the tactics they're using are fair, but, hey, both sides. |
| 16:43.05 | levi | Heh, Ron Minnich's plan9 slides: http://www.cs.unm.edu/~fastos/05meeting/PLAN9NOTDEADYET.pdf |
| 16:43.24 | sjansen | If you're protesting because you're opposed, that's fine by me. If you're protesting because it was a war started it is a war started by a republican president, then shut up and go do something productive. |
| 16:43.34 | JoshH | sjansen: exactly |
| 16:43.34 | dataw0lf | sjansen: I agree completely. |
| 16:43.36 | Jayce^ | of course, this same lady now claims that we are waging a nuclear war in iraq now.. |
| 16:43.45 | dataw0lf | Or supporting the war because it was started by a republican president. |
| 16:43.46 | Jayce^ | sjansen__ |
| 16:43.48 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:43.54 | JoshH | dataw0lf: exactly |
| 16:43.54 | Jayce^ | sjansen++ (wong key :) ) |
| 16:43.58 | JoshH | partisans piss me off |
| 16:44.06 | dataw0lf | I thought she said we were using uranium tipped rounds? |
| 16:44.09 | dataw0lf | (which we are) |
| 16:44.34 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:44.43 | dataw0lf | they're still using uranium tipped rounds. |
| 16:44.55 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:44.58 | Jayce^ | "We are waging a nuclear war in Iraq right now. That country is contaminated. It will be contaminated for practically eternity now." |
| 16:44.59 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:45.04 | dataw0lf | .223 and .50 |
| 16:45.13 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:45.21 | dataw0lf | and 7.62, I'm sure, I didn't have a SAW though so I can't confirm nor deny. |
| 16:45.22 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:45.39 | dataw0lf | well you can find it hard to believe all you want, I had to magazines with em at all times when I was in Iraq for 9 months+ |
| 16:45.41 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:45.42 | Jayce^ | depleted? |
| 16:45.54 | dataw0lf | yes. |
| 16:45.55 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:46.02 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:46.03 | Jayce^ | yeah, big difference |
| 16:46.04 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:46.12 | Jayce^ | saw isn't .223 |
| 16:46.13 | dataw0lf | erm, wait, you're right. |
| 16:46.21 | dataw0lf | the saw can use both. |
| 16:46.23 | JoshH | i wonder why nobody ever protests our own utah legislature. this is from the new salt lake city weekly (not a major news source, i know, but still..) |
| 16:46.26 | JoshH | Utah lawmakers hesitant to accept federal school improvement money have good reason: lots are lining their pockets with the aftermath of failing schools. The burgeoning business of building and running ?charter schools? for parents wanting out of the public schools has been taken on by companies owned by the same Utah legislators who marshaled through laws allowing the new schools and exempting them from meddlesome public-education requirements such as c |
| 16:46.27 | JoshH | ompetitive bidding. One result is that six new charter schools are being built this summer by companies owned by or employing lawmakers who will become the state?s landlords, renting the buildings out to the tune of multimillions per year. |
| 16:47.08 | JoshH | its amazing that people think these legislators are "moral" just because they oppose porn, alcohol, and gambling when they do things like this |
| 16:48.15 | dataw0lf | man, my military knowledge is slipping away after a year. |
| 16:48.24 | dataw0lf | I wish I'd not got dropped from SFAS |
| 16:48.58 | JoshH | dataw0lf: did you quit or get disqualified? |
| 16:49.30 | dataw0lf | JoshH: SFAS? I snapped my ankle in Georgia in a swamp on some tree's roots and had to pop smoke. |
| 16:49.36 | dataw0lf | and there's no medical recycles in SFAS |
| 16:49.49 | JoshH | dataw0lf: you should still be proud of your service, you did a hell of a lot more than most people do. |
| 16:50.02 | dataw0lf | JoshH: Yeah, but I totally would still be in if I was SF. |
| 16:50.03 | JoshH | man, that sucks |
| 16:51.07 | dataw0lf | yeah, I was about 1 km away from my last point (it was the final, 3 day, land nav course) |
| 16:51.29 | Maquis | SF? |
| 16:51.30 | JoshH | dont they let you try again in a later class? |
| 16:51.33 | sjansen | wow |
| 16:51.39 | dataw0lf | almost drowned when I got my ankle stuck, I was in 3 feet of swamp water and got dragged down by my ruck. |
| 16:51.50 | dataw0lf | JoshH: eh, it wasn't worth it to go through SFAS again |
| 16:51.59 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:52.02 | dataw0lf | Maquis: SF == special forces SFAS == special forces assessment and selection |
| 16:52.09 | neybar_work | dataw0lf, have the changed the way things work in the SF qualifying courses? My father got a hairline fracture in his foot and was able to finish after it had healed |
| 16:52.14 | Jayce^ | JoshH, not unless they make you go for medical, not if you basically admit to not being able to for medical reasons |
| 16:52.38 | Jayce^ | neybar_work, depends on the branch, and type |
| 16:52.40 | dataw0lf | neybar_work: If you injure yourself so you're not mission ready they drop you, though you can retry at a later date. But you have to go through all over again. |
| 16:52.55 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: if it's SF it's SF. ie Army |
| 16:53.04 | Maquis | dataw0lf: cool! which one? seals? green berets? |
| 16:53.15 | JoshH | Maquis: technically only green berets are special forces |
| 16:53.15 | dataw0lf | Maquis: SF == green berets. |
| 16:53.18 | neybar_work | ditto |
| 16:53.40 | dataw0lf | I was special operations already. Attack Pathfinder (19d MOS, cavalry scout) |
| 16:53.42 | Maquis | really? |
| 16:53.43 | JoshH | SEAL's are "naval special warfare" but not "special forces" |
| 16:53.47 | Maquis | ah... |
| 16:54.03 | Maquis | the marines have a group too... |
| 16:54.04 | dataw0lf | yeah, seals will get really angry if you call them SF, and vice versa. |
| 16:54.30 | JoshH | they get pissed if you call them "seals" too, instead of SEALs :P |
| 16:54.41 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf, talking to most people, they see SF and any form of SF (eg pararescue, seals,etc.) |
| 16:54.55 | *** part/#utah resplin (n=richard@208.187.239.18) |
| 16:55.05 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: yeah, just recitifying for said people. |
| 16:55.15 | dataw0lf | s/recitifying/rectifying |
| 16:55.16 | levi | Heh, P Diddy is now just Diddy. |
| 16:55.41 | dataw0lf | Didiot |
| 16:55.44 | Jayce^ | Brother in law is a seal, got pushed out medically his first try (doctor expelled him).. got in in the next round |
| 16:55.52 | Jayce^ | Dippy |
| 16:56.13 | sjansen | Prince renamed himself again? |
| 16:56.14 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: I might've tried it again if I had more time in my enlistment. |
| 16:56.44 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf, yeah, definately something you have to work up to.. |
| 16:57.34 | hans | so you really think I should find another vendor that doesn't use DHL? |
| 16:57.46 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:58.00 | sjansen | hans: IIRC, we use DHL w/o problems |
| 16:58.03 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: heh, no kidding |
| 16:58.31 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: I did the whole running in boots exercises every day for a month before SFAS and still was hurting so bad I would actually puke on our ruck marches. |
| 16:58.56 | hans | i guess I'll find out the hard way, it's ordered. |
| 16:59.02 | hans | i've got safari to fall back on anyway |
| 16:59.34 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: and I was in top notch shape. I expected it to be hard... but, man, I had no idea. |
| 16:59.49 | dataw0lf | I hear SEALs have it exponentially harder though. |
| 17:00.16 | Jayce^ | yeah, growing up around a lot of them, always interesting to see the guys who went to camp (and of course most comign back early) |
| 17:00.17 | hans | sweet, svg is going to be included in firefox Real Soon NOw (already in nightly builds) |
| 17:01.15 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:01.24 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:01.45 | hans | interesting, I'm consistely less dissapointed with it than any other browser |
| 17:01.47 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:01.53 | hans | well, except maybe safari which I put on par |
| 17:01.59 | hans | you must be using windows |
| 17:02.03 | dataw0lf | only problems I've had with firefox have been with 64 architecture. |
| 17:02.03 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:02.14 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:02.14 | hans | i don't have much experience with firefox on windows, since I don't use windows |
| 17:02.17 | Jayce^ | hans, don't state the obvious, this is joshc :-) |
| 17:02.24 | levi | I've mostly been running Safari lately. |
| 17:02.37 | hans | yeah, on my mac I use safari. I still miss searching with / |
| 17:02.39 | Jayce^ | safari mostly here, but I use Konq on my linux boxes.. |
| 17:03.09 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:03.31 | hans | that's like saying I use computers instead of mainframes because they fit in my living room |
| 17:03.41 | hans | duh. :) |
| 17:04.03 | hans | i wnoder if they'll ever get them tabs in ie |
| 17:04.27 | hans | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:04.32 | RyanE | it's my default because of extensions. BTW, ie7 preview does have tabs. |
| 17:04.47 | RyanE | I like the greasemonkey. |
| 17:04.53 | RyanE | and Adblock |
| 17:05.17 | dataw0lf | the web developer extensions are pretty helpful too. |
| 17:05.29 | tene | hans: ie7 |
| 17:05.32 | RyanE | oh yeah. |
| 17:05.42 | JoshH | i use firefox on windows, osx, and *nix and ive only had crashing problems on *nix. weird javascript and crappy flash are usually the culprits. |
| 17:05.51 | hans | webdev extension is invaluable when doing webdev |
| 17:05.53 | JoshH | but i still use it and love it |
| 17:06.02 | dataw0lf | hans: exponentially speeds up development. |
| 17:06.14 | Jayce^ | hans, you played with the webdev stuff in safari at all? |
| 17:06.15 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:06.21 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:06.33 | JoshH | internet explorer just sucks way too much for me to use it |
| 17:06.47 | JoshH | firefox only sucks about once a month when it crashes for me |
| 17:06.47 | hans | no didn't know safari had any |
| 17:07.02 | dataw0lf | I have to switch to links constantly on this amd 64 machine because firefox crashes on every other page. |
| 17:07.05 | dataw0lf | it's ridiculous. |
| 17:07.10 | Jayce^ | pimpmysafari.com has some tricks/links... good starting spot |
| 17:07.14 | JoshH | what about mozilla proper? |
| 17:07.17 | dataw0lf | but on x86 Linux never had a problem with firefox whatsoever |
| 17:07.48 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:07.58 | hans | Jayce^: while we're talking safari, can I tell it either to open pdfs in preview or to fit to width every time? I hate clicking on pdfs and getting an unreadable preview |
| 17:08.05 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:08.27 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:10.02 | Jayce^ | not sure |
| 17:10.13 | JoshH | i think you need to do it in your user.js or prefs.js file |
| 17:10.24 | JoshH | which does suck, i guess |
| 17:10.37 | dataw0lf | I thought they didn't even include it, you had to get it as an extension. |
| 17:11.23 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:11.24 | joshc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:11.26 | JoshH | i had to edit my user.js for thunderbird to turn off the "flowed" text |
| 17:11.26 | *** part/#utah joshc (i=joshc@208.187.239.18) |
| 17:11.51 | hans | sigh. someone's having trouble with someone else's website. so they contact them and they say: |
| 17:12.01 | hans | "Virtual directory listing denied" errors are generally a side effect of |
| 17:12.01 | hans | JavaScript not working correctly on the client's machine. They might be |
| 17:12.01 | hans | using an unsupported browser, have scripting disabled in their settings, |
| 17:12.01 | hans | have some security package that is interfering with our client side |
| 17:12.01 | hans | script, |
| 17:12.04 | hans | or some other similar client side cause. The problem here is most likely |
| 17:12.07 | hans | not with our code. |
| 17:12.18 | levi | Here's some sweet retro-computing goodness: http://www.imsai.net/ |
| 17:12.26 | hans | you know the virtual directory listing denied error you get when the web browser isn't configured to do directory listings when there's no index.html. |
| 17:12.48 | JoshH | lol |
| 17:17.52 | levi | Wouldn't it be sweet to have a computer with front panel switches and lights? |
| 17:18.49 | levi | It looks like you can use it to control the z80 board that's what the original computer ran, and also hook it via USB to the ATX motherboard that's also inside the case. |
| 17:34.26 | *** join/#utah bucky (n=bucky@pdpc/supporter/active/bucky) |
| 17:38.16 | sjansen | ~hug firefox |
| 17:38.16 | ibot | ACTION hugs firefox |
| 17:39.32 | sjansen | I've had no problems with firefox, even on my amd64. |
| 17:39.43 | sjansen | And I'd notice 'cause it's my primary machine. |
| 17:40.00 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 17:40.00 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 17:40.18 | levi | I had unending problems with Firefox on x86 gentoo, but none on Debian. |
| 17:40.26 | sjansen | you were on gentoo |
| 17:41.08 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@66-163-12-54.ip.tor.radiant.net) |
| 17:41.20 | levi | I wanted to try it out, and I invested so much time in getting it to work, I was reluctant to just erase it all. But eventually sanity won, and I did so. |
| 17:46.05 | vontrapp | lol, "There's no place like 127.0.0.1" doormat |
| 17:46.16 | tene | ::1 |
| 17:46.52 | vontrapp | tene++ |
| 17:51.09 | bucky | what's with these people crawling into caves? |
| 17:51.25 | bucky | four dead in provo |
| 17:51.34 | bucky | ages 19 to 28 |
| 17:51.58 | Jayce^ | which cave? |
| 17:51.59 | levi | What cave was it? |
| 17:52.21 | bucky | by provo somewhere |
| 17:52.44 | Jayce^ | hopefully not more in nutty putty |
| 17:52.58 | jsmith | Apparently it's in some cave right below the Y. |
| 17:54.03 | levi | I never knew there was a cave right below the Y. |
| 17:54.08 | levi | Perhaps that's for the best. |
| 17:54.18 | LANFear__ | 14link? |
| 17:57.43 | *** join/#utah sjansen_ (n=sjansen@66-163-12-54.ip.tor.radiant.net) |
| 17:57.54 | vontrapp | great, now they're gonna go and get them caves closed |
| 17:59.10 | vontrapp | ~lart sjansen[underscore] |
| 18:01.54 | sjansen_ | oh well, might as well enjoy it |
| 18:01.58 | bucky | damn.. now they're going to keep more stupid people from killing themselves and let them breed some more |
| 18:07.37 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:08.08 | sjansen | heh, it was hiding on a different desktop |
| 18:08.42 | vontrapp | yay for screen |
| 18:09.24 | vontrapp | to make an army of robots to take over the world |
| 18:09.54 | sjansen | screen is for wusses and addicts |
| 18:10.14 | sjansen | real men fight for their nick, then walk away when they're done |
| 18:10.46 | vontrapp | guess i'm an addict |
| 18:11.32 | *** join/#utah von (i=fuglv@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 18:11.55 | *** join/#utah vontrapp_ (i=fuglv@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 18:12.34 | vontrapp | see, i can fight for my nick, win, and walk away, all without opening a new terminal :-p |
| 18:12.42 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@70.98.251.27) |
| 18:12.57 | *** part/#utah vontrapp (i=fuglv@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 18:25.10 | mheath | xbmodder: I'd say they're looking for Mechanical Engineers to independently design electro-mechanical packaging means for large-scale networked computer systems. |
| 18:26.04 | spr | ~logs |
| 18:26.04 | ibot | apt/ibot/jbot/purl all log to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz, or updated "nightly" |
| 18:39.15 | JoshH | http://www.winterson.com/2005/06/episode-iii-backstroke-of-west.html#ha |
| 18:39.27 | JoshH | episode 3 with hilarious english subtitles translated from chinese |
| 18:40.11 | bucky | 5,500 showed up at the Richmond International Raceway to purchase 1,000 used Apple iBook laptop computers |
| 18:40.34 | bucky | People trampled, beaten with a folding chair. A woman urinating on herself. The police called, then themselves calling for backup. |
| 18:42.09 | tensai | noodles just weren't meant to be eaten with a fork. honestly, I don't know how anybody can do it. |
| 18:43.09 | tene | What do you eat them with? |
| 18:43.30 | tensai | chopsticks, man |
| 18:43.38 | JoshH | i cant handle chopsticks |
| 18:43.46 | JoshH | at least not like a real master |
| 18:43.59 | tensai | unfortunately I forgot to bring some so I'm stuck with this fork. it's just not working well. |
| 18:47.46 | *** join/#utah joshc (i=joshc@208.187.239.18) |
| 18:48.05 | *** join/#utah mindjuju (n=mindjuju@216.20.238.225) |
| 18:53.33 | sjansen | noodles are manageable with chopsticks, it amazing me that asia doesn't starve to death trying to eat rice with chopsticks |
| 18:54.01 | tene | sjansen: your rice isn't sticky. |
| 18:54.10 | spr | mmmm.. short grain rice.. |
| 18:54.11 | sjansen | rice shouldn't be sticky |
| 18:54.31 | tene | it should be if you want to eat it with chopsticks. |
| 18:54.31 | sjansen | sticky rice is an abomination |
| 18:54.40 | spr | you're an abomination |
| 18:54.57 | sjansen | if I want my rice to stick together, I'll add beans |
| 18:55.12 | tene | so add beans and then eat it with chopsticks. |
| 18:55.43 | hans | JoshH: so, you want? it sounds like slc tonight isn't going to work so I can leave it with someone here in utah county |
| 18:55.46 | hans | or I can take it to DI |
| 18:55.57 | hans | or I can take it to DI |
| 18:57.01 | JoshH | meh, screw it, just take it to the DI i guess |
| 18:57.14 | sjansen | that star wars things can't be tree |
| 18:57.45 | JoshH | sjansen: ? |
| 18:57.54 | sjansen | ~links |
| 18:57.55 | ibot | Lynx-like text WWW browser. URL: http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~mikulas/links/ |
| 18:58.10 | sjansen | bah, that last link JoshH posted |
| 18:58.14 | sjansen | ~urls |
| 18:58.23 | hans | you're thinking brigham. |
| 18:58.27 | JoshH | it cant be tree? |
| 18:58.29 | dataw0lf | http://www.winterson.com/2005/06/episode-iii-backstroke-of-west.html#ha ? |
| 18:58.30 | sjansen | ~lart brigham |
| 18:58.46 | *** part/#utah joshc (i=joshc@208.187.239.18) |
| 19:03.48 | hans | I was just made by the presbyterian church. lol |
| 19:04.50 | goozbach | ~lart stupid cateriors |
| 19:04.56 | goozbach | heh! |
| 19:05.07 | goozbach | how appropiate! |
| 19:05.20 | goozbach | they forgot bread for our sandwitch platters. |
| 19:05.31 | dataw0lf | caterior? |
| 19:05.34 | dataw0lf | ah. |
| 19:05.47 | dataw0lf | caterer. |
| 19:06.18 | goozbach | yeah that!!! |
| 19:07.24 | dataw0lf | I thought you were talking about some type of artery or something. |
| 19:08.38 | hans | so sjansen why can't it be tree? |
| 19:13.04 | *** part/#utah mindjuju (n=mindjuju@216.20.238.225) |
| 19:22.34 | goozbach | ~smalley Maquis |
| 19:22.43 | goozbach | ~stuart Maquis |
| 19:23.40 | tene | ~emulate gaz |
| 19:23.40 | ibot | He stole my GameSlave and now he's gonna pay. |
| 20:09.13 | tensai | ~emulate tene |
| 20:10.00 | tene | ibot: emulate tensai is <action> destroys the moon. |
| 20:10.01 | ibot | okay, tene |
| 20:10.04 | tene | ~emulate tensai |
| 20:10.05 | ibot | ACTION destroys the moon. |
| 20:10.30 | tensai | ibot: emulate tene is <action> eats a Pop Tart(tm) |
| 20:10.30 | ibot | tensai: okay |
| 20:10.33 | tensai | ~emulate tene |
| 20:10.33 | ibot | ACTION eats a Pop Tart(tm) |
| 20:10.39 | vontrapp | ~emulate sjansen |
| 20:10.40 | ibot | ACTION beats i=fuglv to a bloody pulp with some well crafted XML weapons |
| 20:11.15 | vontrapp | ~emulate sjansen ~= s/user/who/ |
| 20:12.01 | vontrapp | ~emulate sjansen |
| 20:12.01 | ibot | ACTION beats vontrapp to a bloody pulp with some well crafted XML weapons |
| 20:12.05 | vontrapp | better |
| 20:12.13 | tene | is there a windows equivalent of ldd? |
| 20:12.24 | tene | a way to list all dlls that an executable depends on? |
| 20:12.49 | vontrapp | hmm, i found that once |
| 20:12.56 | xbmodder | tene, I saw some utility out there that you could DL |
| 20:13.02 | vontrapp | it's in a batch file on my brothers usb drive |
| 20:13.15 | xbmodder | is it just me or is every job that I can work from home filled? |
| 20:13.22 | vontrapp | you can use special variables and stuff |
| 20:13.29 | vontrapp | no need to download anything |
| 20:13.35 | vontrapp | can't remember though |
| 20:15.45 | tene | http://www.dependencywalker.com/ possibly |
| 20:15.47 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@66.239.17.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 20:17.25 | xbmodder | anyone here need a technician? |
| 20:17.44 | xbmodder | web hosting, python CGI, server setup |
| 20:18.36 | xbmodder | when has "Ability to lift 60 Lbs" been a requirment for a "Jr Helpdesk Support Engineer" |
| 20:19.10 | Maquis | xbmodder: you have to support the ceiling all day... that's why it's a support engineer |
| 20:20.26 | xbmodder | heh. |
| 20:20.56 | xbmodder | but a 60 pound ceiling.. thats light.. thats like what a huge paper ceiling? |
| 20:22.35 | vontrapp | maybe you work with 60 other support engineers |
| 20:23.15 | vontrapp | or maybe you just support the Jr Helpdesk |
| 20:33.19 | mrpull | xbmodder have you every carried a monitor or hacked a server? |
| 20:33.31 | mrpull | that is a reasonable requirement |
| 20:33.50 | mrpull | s/hacked/racked/ |
| 20:34.25 | mrpull | silly fingers... (or maybe silly mind) |
| 20:34.44 | tene | is that really something that needs to be listed, though? |
| 20:34.50 | mrpull | absolutely |
| 20:34.55 | tene | Is that the sort of thing that many people wouldn't be able to do? |
| 20:35.31 | mrpull | it can help avoid (perceived) discrimination problems |
| 20:35.42 | tene | howso? |
| 20:36.21 | mrpull | (back to sexism in the tech industry) |
| 20:36.32 | mrpull | say a woman applies for a job as a entry level sysadmin |
| 20:36.40 | mrpull | and she can only lift 30 pounds |
| 20:36.47 | mrpull | (or man, whatever) |
| 20:37.11 | mrpull | if you advertise before the fact that heavy lifting is required... you have it documented |
| 20:37.14 | tene | ahh |
| 20:37.29 | vontrapp | the point is, lifting only thirty pounds and being a woman aren't, um, dependent on eachother |
| 20:37.44 | tene | Is it common that an adult human wouldn't be able to lift 60 lbs? |
| 20:37.51 | mrpull | ok. a person in a wheel chair or on crutches, whatever |
| 20:37.55 | *** join/#utah lars-ut (n=me@67.137.31.58) |
| 20:38.02 | mrpull | sure. I have back problems. |
| 20:38.04 | tene | No, I understand what you're saying, I'm just asking. |
| 20:38.19 | tene | Oh, wait, you were replying to vontrapp. |
| 20:38.33 | mrpull | i've also seen requirements for sitting in one place for long periods. |
| 20:38.33 | tene | I hadn't considered that. |
| 20:39.14 | xbmodder | sitting in one place? |
| 20:39.19 | xbmodder | how hard is that? |
| 20:39.29 | tene | It's hard for some people. |
| 20:39.42 | tene | Or standing for long periods of time |
| 20:40.14 | mrpull | xbmodder: have you ever been injured? |
| 20:40.51 | vontrapp | tene: right that's what i'm saying, someone may not be able to lift 60lbs and then fall back on the minority thing, whatever they may be, when you're not pleased with what they're able to do |
| 20:40.57 | tene | nodnod |
| 20:41.03 | tene | I understand now. |
| 20:41.54 | mrpull | it's pretty sad that we have to CYA for common sense things to avoid the appearance of discrimination, but that is life today |
| 20:42.41 | xbmodder | mrpull, yeah |
| 20:42.57 | xbmodder | standing for hours is hard |
| 20:57.17 | lars-ut | ~emulate Ms Bitters |
| 20:57.17 | ibot | Everything was so nice and peaceful, 'till one day it all went horribly wrong! |
| 21:00.57 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@64.50.35.114.2O7.net) |
| 21:01.42 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@128.187.241.31) |
| 21:08.36 | lars-ut | I've been amazed at the polarizing effect of joshc of late - does anybody here not have a strong opinion about him? It sure is wild to watch. |
| 21:10.29 | mrpull | joshc is alright. i don't love nor hate him. |
| 21:11.11 | dataw0lf | Not a big fan. |
| 21:11.24 | mrpull | is it common to have localizations for piglatin and ebonics? |
| 21:11.27 | lars-ut | I think he holds his own pretty well while maintaining some opinions that others disgree with. dataw0lf, I'm gonna have to say that I would not classify you as a <anything>basher. |
| 21:12.14 | dataw0lf | lars-ut: Appreciated. |
| 21:12.15 | dataw0lf | well |
| 21:12.17 | dataw0lf | Gentoo-basher |
| 21:12.19 | dataw0lf | ;) |
| 21:12.34 | lars-ut | that's the kind of bigotry I can appreciate. |
| 21:12.38 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 21:12.51 | tene | lars: what would you not classify me as? |
| 21:13.17 | lars-ut | tene is not a... |
| 21:13.58 | lars-ut | ...not an IRC ignoramus. Inference: you've been around a while. |
| 21:15.12 | tene | 'kay |
| 21:15.16 | tene | now do spr! |
| 21:15.30 | lars-ut | spr: insufficient data |
| 21:15.35 | *** join/#utah xbmodder (i=nobody@unaffiliated/xbmodder) |
| 21:15.37 | xbmodder | hey |
| 21:16.12 | lars-ut | tene: Only fair - what would you not classify me as? |
| 21:16.30 | tene | not someone that I know anything at all about. |
| 21:16.51 | lars-ut | It's all on Google. |
| 21:19.45 | lars-ut | the archives for this channel would reveal at least the following: my political leanings, eating habits, media viewing/listening habits, and software/hardware opinions. |
| 21:20.16 | jsmith | lars-ut: Is that why some people start all their comments with a space, so as not to be logged? |
| 21:20.29 | tene | I don't think that there's very much about myself that I would object to being public knowledge |
| 21:20.41 | lars-ut | jsmith: I don't know. |
| 21:20.51 | vontrapp | jsmith: that's exactly why |
| 21:21.00 | lars-ut | wow. |
| 21:21.46 | JoshH | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:22.07 | jsmith | vontrapp: It took me a while to figure that out :-) |
| 21:22.08 | lars-ut | tene: I'm under the impression that the cat's already out of the bag. I could try to hide, but it wouldn't do much good. No spaces in front of my IRC rantings. |
| 21:22.51 | tene | I don't have very much of a presence online. The only place information about me would be available is probably irc logs. |
| 21:22.56 | tene | and maybe a few mailing list archives |
| 21:23.32 | lars-ut | doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to add spaces - I'd wager most of the folks that bother to do that are already heavily archived public mailman posts. |
| 21:23.40 | jsmith | tene: Lucky you... I've got way too much online. Luckily, there are a lot of Jared Smiths out there... |
| 21:23.51 | lars-ut | and Lars Rasmussens. |
| 21:24.00 | tene | I've only seen one other Stephen Weeks online. |
| 21:24.03 | vontrapp | not a lot of von fugals |
| 21:24.07 | vontrapp | ~google von fugal |
| 21:24.10 | lars-ut | For all you know I created google maps. |
| 21:24.25 | tene | I'm sure there are more, but there's one that comes up consistently when I google for myself |
| 21:24.30 | vontrapp | ~lart ibot |
| 21:25.45 | lars-ut | nice domain though. |
| 21:26.02 | tene | I suppose I could kill him and steal it. |
| 21:26.19 | lars-ut | there ya' go. |
| 21:26.59 | lars-ut | tene: I think you're on to a new form of identity theft: offing someone & assuming their domain. |
| 21:27.05 | tene | hehe |
| 21:28.34 | lars-ut | let's see last time we talked about crime in this channel I think we went full tilt with the 'listening' words... that's always fun. I'll start... |
| 21:28.36 | lars-ut | insurgency |
| 21:29.07 | lars-ut | attack |
| 21:29.10 | tene | bomb? |
| 21:29.15 | lars-ut | president |
| 21:29.21 | tene | assassinate |
| 21:29.27 | lars-ut | covert |
| 21:29.37 | tene | doom |
| 21:29.40 | lars-ut | ied |
| 21:29.40 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@216.123.178.194) |
| 21:29.55 | vontrapp | nuke |
| 21:29.58 | lars-ut | explosive yield |
| 21:30.30 | dataw0lf | one...hour |
| 21:30.41 | vontrapp | 1.5 |
| 21:32.29 | sjansen | Ha ha. For last hour I've been watching brides set their hair on fire, stupid people try to drive through floods, and cops smack down bad guys. |
| 21:32.48 | sjansen | SpikeTV almost makes me want to get cable. |
| 21:33.09 | vontrapp | :) |
| 21:33.12 | levi | The only good thing about SpikeTV was ST:TNG reruns. |
| 21:33.18 | lars-ut | seconded. |
| 21:33.30 | levi | I don't know if there's anything good on it now. Alas, no cable. |
| 21:33.51 | lars-ut | I watch cable when I'm out of town - that's it. |
| 21:34.29 | lars-ut | Commercials are a waste of my life - I choose to watch shows w/o them. |
| 21:35.58 | sjansen | Max-X deserves govt. subsidies as educational TV. |
| 21:36.19 | sjansen | For example, they just gave an object lesson on why not to try climbing down a man hole. |
| 21:36.40 | lars-ut | I can't stomach Max-X for more than a couple minutes. |
| 21:36.44 | sjansen | And it looks like we're about to be treated to a lesson on why not walk across partially frozen lakes. |
| 21:37.03 | lars-ut | sjansen: go watch Nova or Frontline. |
| 21:37.54 | vontrapp | levi: what about macgyver? |
| 21:38.18 | levi | vontrapp: Well, that's good too, but even more dated still than ST:TNG. |
| 21:39.22 | lars-ut | sigint echelon sugar grove virginia sabana seca puerto rico waihopai new zealand comsat intelsat interception wideband extraction aluminium potassium sulphate signal analysis filtering data processing nitroglycerin facsimile analysis nitrogen trichloride traffic analysis phenol keyword recognition text retrieval topic analysis ammonium hydroxide continuous speech recognition distillate diesel naphthalene red nitric acid ammonium nitrate fissile |
| 21:39.28 | lars-ut | that should do it. |
| 21:39.52 | lars-ut | this converstion will now last one hundered years. |
| 21:40.10 | lars-ut | and one hundered is even more than one hundred. |
| 21:40.18 | tene | how much more? |
| 21:40.25 | lars-ut | I'm not allowed to say. |
| 21:40.32 | RyanE | about a hunnert |
| 21:40.36 | lars-ut | :) |
| 21:40.40 | sjansen | well, if that's the case, I'd just like to take this chance to remind posterity that |
| 21:41.02 | sjansen | sjansen 15 s00p3r l337z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 21:41.31 | tene | s/15/51/ |
| 21:41.36 | mrpull | ~praise argus |
| 21:41.37 | ibot | All hail argus! |
| 21:41.41 | tene | 'cause 51>15 |
| 21:41.51 | lars-ut | ~hail Invader Zim |
| 21:41.51 | ibot | ACTION bows down to Invader Zim and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" |
| 21:43.11 | vontrapp | also 373>337 |
| 21:43.24 | lars-ut | sjansen: Don't forget about the History & Discovery, and Military Channels. |
| 21:43.24 | vontrapp | 51 s00p3r l373z!! |
| 21:44.08 | lars-ut | were there any tremors in provo today? |
| 21:45.01 | lars-ut | I'm right by the mouth of the canyon & a 'lifetime' table collapsed with some computers on it. |
| 21:45.26 | lars-ut | nobody was close to it when it fell - I think it was just off balance. |
| 21:45.46 | jsmith | lars-ut: Not according to the U of U seismograph stations |
| 21:45.55 | lars-ut | thanks jsmith. |
| 21:46.00 | jsmith | http://www.seis.utah.edu/recactivity/recent.shtml |
| 21:46.19 | mrpull | what is a 'lifetime table'? something from that awful womens network? |
| 21:46.54 | sjansen | lars-ut: I don't have those channels here. |
| 21:47.13 | sjansen | I also don't have Comedy Network or the Sci Fi channel. |
| 21:47.24 | sjansen | Although I do have CMT, so it's not so bad. |
| 21:47.34 | lars-ut | time to check out torrents. |
| 21:47.46 | lars-ut | CMT is of the devil |
| 21:48.08 | dataw0lf | true true |
| 21:48.15 | vontrapp | so at least you can make fun of the boot stompin, hat tossin, beer downin', dog mournin' fools? |
| 21:48.16 | lars-ut | the combination of country music AND music videos - truly evil. |
| 21:48.22 | dataw0lf | there's no point in cable if you can't get Comedy Central or HBO |
| 21:48.24 | sjansen | life is not complete without country music |
| 21:48.49 | lars-ut | well, maybe 10 tracks of it spread throughout one's lifetime. |
| 21:48.51 | dataw0lf | sjansen: you get a trailer and you'll come full circle |
| 21:48.53 | dataw0lf | ;) |
| 21:50.20 | lars-ut | if you had a trailer it would be easier to employ anti-wireless techniques. |
| 21:50.34 | dataw0lf | that's what my tinfoil hat is for, though! |
| 21:50.41 | lars-ut | think bigger. |
| 21:50.52 | dataw0lf | I can't, that's why I'm wearing a tinfoil hat. |
| 21:51.26 | lars-ut | you wouldn't have to wear the hat if you just put a large hat over the entire trailer. |
| 21:51.39 | dataw0lf | hmmmmm |
| 21:51.44 | dataw0lf | you make an excellent point, sir! |
| 21:51.54 | lars-ut | some large-scale origami might be in order. |
| 21:52.01 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 21:52.49 | sjansen | "I was at the gun club playing russian roulette." |
| 21:52.53 | sjansen | "Did you win?" |
| 21:53.03 | sjansen | "You're not familiar with the game, are you?" |
| 21:53.06 | lars-ut | sjansen: I'll wean you off country with some good female vocalists: say Sarah McLachlan, Jewel(she's from Texas), and Annie Lennox |
| 21:53.28 | vontrapp | eww, sarah :p |
| 21:53.45 | lars-ut | with a protacted 12-step program, you'll be able to change your life. |
| 21:54.04 | lars-ut | & a protactor. |
| 21:54.08 | lars-ut | :) |
| 21:54.22 | dataw0lf | what about Janis Joplin? |
| 21:54.33 | lars-ut | haven't listened to her much |
| 21:54.38 | dataw0lf | I likes. |
| 21:55.04 | lars-ut | vontrapp: Listen to some of Sarah's earlier stuff - much better. |
| 21:55.36 | vontrapp | hmm, maybe |
| 21:55.57 | vontrapp | not a bad voice, i just don't like what she does with it in the now popular songs |
| 21:56.04 | lars-ut | me neither |
| 21:56.14 | lars-ut | too produced. |
| 21:56.23 | dataw0lf | that's about 99% of music nowadays. |
| 21:56.27 | lars-ut | yup |
| 21:56.27 | levi | Hmm, I haven't listened to Sarah McLachlan in a while. |
| 21:56.55 | levi | dataw0lf: If you can get into indie rock, it's far less overproduced. |
| 21:57.03 | dataw0lf | levi: I listen to alot of indie rock. |
| 21:57.57 | lars-ut | I'm making my brother a CD for his upcoming birthday, and I'm going to use popular music, most of it purchased from allofmp3.com |
| 21:58.02 | levi | The mainstream radio is starting to pick up on some more of the raw indie sound. |
| 21:58.03 | dataw0lf | bands like, say, Linkin Park make me want to shove dynamite in my ears. |
| 21:58.14 | dataw0lf | levi: Yeah, Modest Mouse, The Strokes, etc |
| 21:58.23 | dataw0lf | I was really surprised when I heard the strokes on the radio. |
| 21:58.34 | levi | I was surprised about Modest Mouse, too. |
| 21:58.55 | dataw0lf | levi: really, i kinda saw it coming. They've been around forever, though, as I'm sure you know. |
| 21:58.57 | levi | I never really got into them, but a roommate I had listened to them all the time. |
| 21:59.01 | dataw0lf | I heart the Strokes. |
| 21:59.05 | sjansen | http://devboi.mozdev.org/ <--- Rock on! |
| 21:59.24 | lars-ut | then you have the Moby-types: seems like a weird class of music to me... bands that don't exist, like Gorillaz. |
| 21:59.47 | levi | I kinda like Gorillaz. |
| 21:59.57 | levi | I like UNKLE even more, though. |
| 22:00.19 | dataw0lf | I like the Gorillaz. |
| 22:00.32 | dataw0lf | that Clint Eastwood music video is really what got me into them, though, not the music. |
| 22:00.37 | levi | Their new album seems a little less playful than the first one. |
| 22:00.55 | lars-ut | I like the one track I've heard - I'll be including it on the CD. But I'm tired of hearing songs with a single off-key or high pitched sample for a hook. |
| 22:01.19 | levi | I liked the collaboration with Cibo Matto on the first Gorillaz album. |
| 22:01.25 | dataw0lf | I've heard rumors that the strokes might play at the lofi. if they are, I'll see if I can get you guys some tickets for free. |
| 22:01.32 | tene | that'd be sweet |
| 22:01.32 | dataw0lf | or just sneak you in. |
| 22:01.43 | lars-ut | I was thinking about seeing Tori Amos. |
| 22:02.22 | lars-ut | not very often you get too See a red-haired Juilliard-trained performer. |
| 22:02.43 | lars-ut | s/too See/to see |
| 22:03.34 | lars-ut | before I go: anybody here buy shoes on the web? |
| 22:04.00 | hans | odd, wonder why Option "XkbRules" "xorg" would break my ctrl:nocaps and windows key vs s/xorg/xfree86/ |
| 22:04.57 | dataw0lf | lars-ut: hehe, that's an odd request. |
| 22:05.14 | dataw0lf | I like the try before you buy idea with shoes, televisions and speakers. |
| 22:06.42 | levi | lars-ut: I bought bike shoes for my wife on the web, but only after we'd gone and tried on a bunch of similar ones at various bike stores. |
| 22:07.14 | levi | I would have liked to buy them locally, but the online store had a closeout sale on last year's model... |
| 22:07.20 | levi | Couldn't pass up the deal. |
| 22:07.33 | dataw0lf | yeah. I've bought a pair of rock climbing shoes online, so I'm guilty too. |
| 22:08.09 | vontrapp | not much selection otherwise |
| 22:08.54 | hans | would you have felt guilty buying from a different local store than the one where you tried them on at first? |
| 22:09.16 | vontrapp | is it cheaper at the other store? |
| 22:09.35 | hans | naturally |
| 22:09.45 | hans | or you wouldn't have bought there (unless it was an impulse buy) |
| 22:11.36 | levi | hans: Well, I like supporting local bike stores. |
| 22:12.39 | hans | sure, but I'm trying to make a philosophical argument. :) |
| 22:13.23 | hans | people often feel guilty for trying on something locally and then buying online. I'm just posing the question as to whether that's logical. not quite decided myself |
| 22:14.46 | hans | to be sure, online stores have lower cost, but it's harder to get in the face of the customer (and therefore to get impulse buys) |
| 22:15.12 | hans | people are wary of things they haven't hefted, and if they're going to buy anyway they'll probably buy where they heft unless you can get it considerably cheaper online |
| 22:15.54 | hans | I think overall the pros and cons balance out mostly and we shouldn't feel guilty for being blatantly deal-following consumers in a country where that's how we're supposed to behave for the good of the economy |
| 22:17.57 | sjansen | anyone who buys from WalMart is contributing to the end of society and the imminent IMPLOSION OF THE SUN!!! |
| 22:18.49 | neybar_work | wow, I hadn't realized that I was so evil... Bwahaha! |
| 22:19.18 | dataw0lf | I don't buy from WalMart *shrug* |
| 22:20.19 | vontrapp | pretty much the only time i consider going to walmart is when looking for generic electronics, like portable cd player or somthing |
| 22:22.06 | levi | hans: It's just that bike parts are almost always cheaper online, and if you don't support the local store, it's likely to not carry as much stuff and may eventually go away despite local demand for bike stuff. |
| 22:24.31 | hans | maybe. *shrug* |
| 22:24.47 | hans | i'm just thinking maybe not. don't underestimate impulse and immediacy buys |
| 22:24.50 | Jayce^ | neybar_work, we did :) |
| 22:24.58 | hans | but I'm sure it does happen sometimes. |
| 22:26.04 | levi | Bike stores are currently a bit protected by the fact that you can't buy a lot of brand-name bikes online. But I think the accessory inventory that stores carry is drastically reduced by the fact that they can't price-compete with the online stores. |
| 22:28.28 | lars-ut | jsmith: you have a recommendation for a site to line test for voip for home use? |
| 22:28.48 | lars-ut | more of a speed/latency test I'd guess |
| 22:29.12 | lars-ut | I stumbled upon one once upon a time but can't find it now. |
| 22:29.32 | lars-ut | I'm assuming the worst at ~95kbps upstream needed. |
| 22:29.52 | lars-ut | I know you can chop that down much further |
| 22:30.20 | lars-ut | but I just want to know what to recommend to folks to see if their connection can handle voip traffic. |
| 22:30.35 | lars-ut | anybidy else? |
| 22:30.52 | lars-ut | i=o; |
| 22:31.44 | tensai | www.talkswitch.com/voip/voip_test.php |
| 22:31.51 | tensai | java applet |
| 22:32.58 | vontrapp | where does bucky live? |
| 22:34.21 | lars-ut | tensai: Firefox blocked the app - IE didn't. Need to check my Java install on my XP. That's what I was looking for. Thanks. |
| 22:34.54 | lars-ut | maybe it was my AdBlock extension. |
| 22:47.16 | hans | blanding |
| 22:57.33 | vontrapp | that's what i thought |
| 23:00.45 | vontrapp | turns out the person i'm picking up the braille BoM for is from blanding |
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| 23:03.31 | bonez39 | braille, eh....last time I thought of braille was watching Sneakers....when the blind guy was reading....... a braille magazine... |
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