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| 10:57.46 | qopi | hello |
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| 13:08.22 | qopi | hey batawata |
| 13:08.25 | qopi | how goes it |
| 13:08.29 | qopi | it got your mail |
| 13:08.32 | qopi | thanks! |
| 13:08.39 | qopi | all sounds very interesting |
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| 13:18.35 | qopi | hey olisb |
| 13:18.46 | qopi | have you recieved the mail from Jon @ Interra? |
| 13:35.55 | batawata | hey qopi! |
| 13:47.42 | olisb | hi qopi, no nothing yet |
| 14:05.39 | *** join/#ud garyalex (~garyalex@213.55.23.1) |
| 14:10.41 | garyalex | hi evangineer |
| 14:14.09 | garyalex | hi olisb, qopi |
| 14:14.40 | olisb | hello again :) |
| 14:16.10 | qopi | hello garyalex |
| 14:16.13 | garyalex | Hi oli, I've just had a good chat with Jamie McG |
| 14:16.41 | qopi | do tell all ;P |
| 14:16.51 | garyalex | I'm going to try to get the root information from Mamding as soon as I can, |
| 14:17.09 | garyalex | and if I can't get through to him in the next day or so, I'll get it directly from the OU. |
| 14:17.18 | garyalex | (I'd rather not do that if possible.) |
| 14:17.56 | olisb | ok, it'd just be good to have some ftp access asap really |
| 14:17.58 | garyalex | Then we can set up Baldrick so that the four of us, Jamie, oli, qopi, gary can set up what we discussed at Candid Cafe |
| 14:18.31 | garyalex | Well, ftp and more, Just access for us |
| 14:18.39 | garyalex | I can't bear this endless waiting for Mamading |
| 14:19.02 | garyalex | I can't get him here, or on his landline or mobile. |
| 14:19.43 | garyalex | I like the plan building on groupware, but let's do what we were going to also. |
| 14:21.26 | olisb | right, do we have some groups to set stuff up for? or will we still mostly be experimenting? |
| 14:22.21 | garyalex | No groups yet. |
| 14:22.48 | garyalex | I want to set something up for 'Funky food', our mythical food co-op, so I can show it to the local food group. |
| 14:23.01 | qopi | olisb: you could well be right. Have you chased him recently/again? |
| 14:23.05 | olisb | well, is it not poss that we could set something up for your slow food pose, cambriadge baby sitters or other groups you have spoken to ... |
| 14:23.21 | garyalex | Also, I've got a new guy in Cambridge who is a marketing man and very keen. |
| 14:23.26 | olisb | qopi: no, nothing since his, 'i'm busy' mail... |
| 14:23.53 | olisb | very keen, on what? |
| 14:24.01 | garyalex | Working with us. |
| 14:24.08 | olisb | to do what? |
| 14:24.19 | garyalex | Set up a Cambridge Open Co-op. |
| 14:24.37 | olisb | ok! well there's the start of a group then. |
| 14:24.45 | garyalex | He and Gareth and I will be going to that Funding Network meeting in Cambridge next wednesday. |
| 14:25.35 | garyalex | qopi, have you got any groups raring to go with us (or even just willling? |
| 14:26.02 | olisb | in the absence of Groupserver, there must be another OS package we could easily appply to Baldrick which manages mailing lists |
| 14:26.26 | qopi | olisb: sympa or mailman |
| 14:26.33 | qopi | sympa is what riseup use |
| 14:26.41 | qopi | mailman is what mose uses for nguild |
| 14:26.46 | garyalex | But I think Mamading has already set up something. |
| 14:26.52 | olisb | right, they could form the basis of easy to create groups which link to the wikis / blogs etc |
| 14:26.56 | garyalex | He has been doing sme work. |
| 14:27.20 | olisb | i'm sure tis getting there, i just want to get going... |
| 14:27.38 | olisb | qopi: is Rise up Sympa? |
| 14:28.00 | qopi | garyalex: i suggest you always write evangineer as opposed to mamading, then at least there is an outside chance we'll attract his attention |
| 14:28.22 | qopi | olisb: riseup uses sypmpa, yes |
| 14:29.33 | qopi | he did say yes, but was busy at the time |
| 14:30.13 | olisb | u see, if i look at my rise up 'open' group, it has a HP where qopi has written intro text, which could act as the main group page for any group we care to create! |
| 14:30.22 | qopi | olisb: do you think you could describe yourself as a mid-senior project manager? |
| 14:30.35 | olisb | sure, to whom tho? |
| 14:31.21 | qopi | http://www.tonic.co.uk want someone for 4 weeks asap |
| 14:31.25 | olisb | what does groupserver do (now) that is better than that? perhaps the mail into the forums...? |
| 14:32.12 | garyalex | I think the point about groupserver was that it is build on top of zope(?) which means it is easy to integrate it with other apps. |
| 14:32.57 | qopi | that was part of it |
| 14:32.58 | garyalex | If we start with a random set of apps that we like, we won't easily be able to integrate them. |
| 14:33.12 | garyalex | On the other hand, we can begin to play and think. |
| 14:33.30 | qopi | but it is also has rss feeds of messages and a nice web interface |
| 14:34.08 | garyalex | My Dance Camp and Portugal project groups now use Yahoo groups. But perhaps we could do something for them. Also my Fair Green Neighbourhood Assn. |
| 14:34.30 | qopi | yes, lots of groups I know use yahoo |
| 14:34.32 | garyalex | Groupserver did seem like a sensible starting point. |
| 14:34.54 | qopi | but i don't think we really want to start offering other people mailing lists yet |
| 14:35.03 | qopi | since we're not techies |
| 14:35.04 | garyalex | The key thing is the people, us. |
| 14:35.14 | garyalex | We need more techies. |
| 14:35.16 | qopi | and what if our service goes down for some reason |
| 14:35.21 | garyalex | Jamie is a start. |
| 14:35.30 | olisb | qopi: tonic look a bit un-eco and flash oriented for me |
| 14:35.53 | olisb | ie they do car sites, i'd rather shoot myself in the head than do that.... |
| 14:36.07 | qopi | lol |
| 14:36.08 | olisb | (thanks for the thought tho!) |
| 14:36.18 | qopi | well, I've forwarded you the e-mail anyhow |
| 14:36.23 | olisb | ok |
| 14:36.25 | qopi | (cc'd you actually) |
| 14:37.05 | olisb | qopi: why do we need to be techies to offeer small mailing lists which consolidate groups? |
| 14:37.57 | olisb | gary: who do ou think tom meant when he said getting techies was no prob? skool folk? |
| 14:38.08 | qopi | we don't, but things need to be maintain, archives kept etc |
| 14:38.10 | qopi | that need someone dedicated to doing that |
| 14:38.12 | garyalex | How can I say? |
| 14:38.35 | qopi | olisb: yeah, i think he means people at skool |
| 14:38.44 | qopi | in fact, that is defo what he means |
| 14:38.45 | garyalex | I think we need a fairly heavy duty linux server type person who can sort out problems |
| 14:39.08 | olisb | it seems any potential group will always resort to yahoo because of their 'group' functionality, which is essentially built around lists. so that's what we need to offer... |
| 14:39.34 | olisb | imho |
| 14:39.41 | qopi | olisb: i agree |
| 14:39.51 | garyalex | We've been round this loop several times. It was our starting point but then you two said, no, its blogs and wikis :) |
| 14:39.57 | qopi | but open is basically you me and gary (and tom next year) |
| 14:39.59 | olisb | i know |
| 14:40.05 | olisb | i just thought that to gary! |
| 14:40.10 | qopi | do we really want to set-up another riseup? |
| 14:40.16 | olisb | but i think, with hidsight we know more now |
| 14:40.52 | olisb | um, no, we dont want to qopi |
| 14:40.56 | olisb | but i say... |
| 14:41.03 | qopi | we only side-stepped mailing lists because of the phone co-op stuff |
| 14:41.04 | olisb | we dont market it like that (ie lists) |
| 14:41.14 | garyalex | [Some of your comments are coming up on a gray background, like the 'I just thought that to gary!. Are you doing something to make that happen?] |
| 14:41.27 | olisb | we say, 'group services for ecominded chaps' etc |
| 14:41.37 | garyalex | Its the push versus pull argument. |
| 14:41.48 | garyalex | Yes, |
| 14:42.02 | garyalex | And we add blogs and wikis because they are sexier |
| 14:42.06 | qopi | um, that is more of less what riseup say |
| 14:42.17 | qopi | and they've got geeks to keep things ticking over |
| 14:42.32 | olisb | hmmm |
| 14:42.33 | qopi | and partner some instead |
| 14:42.39 | garyalex | But our USP is how we work with the groups. |
| 14:42.45 | qopi | perhaps riseup or electirc embers or something |
| 14:42.47 | olisb | [gary, no, i aint done nothing to make gray!] |
| 14:42.51 | garyalex | Were not jst selling software. |
| 14:43.00 | garyalex | What did you do just then? |
| 14:43.13 | olisb | nuttin! |
| 14:43.16 | garyalex | Why is that gray and not hmmmmm |
| 14:43.34 | olisb | dunno |
| 14:43.47 | garyalex | Ah the mysteries of life? |
| 14:43.52 | qopi | garyalex: perhaps you've set "gary" as one of your hotwords (or whatever they are called) |
| 14:43.53 | olisb | qopi: u r right, partnering is KEY |
| 14:44.13 | garyalex | alright, I'll try that too: gary |
| 14:44.20 | olisb | what DID mr interra card say? |
| 14:44.20 | garyalex | didn't work for me. |
| 14:44.31 | qopi | garyalex: it wouldn't work if you did it yourself |
| 14:44.31 | olisb | gary? |
| 14:44.35 | qopi | gary? |
| 14:44.40 | garyalex | both gray |
| 14:44.42 | olisb | lol |
| 14:44.53 | olisb | ok, we sussed that! |
| 14:45.14 | olisb | is he into a partnershop qopi? |
| 14:45.22 | olisb | is he into a partnership qopi? |
| 14:45.28 | qopi | who? |
| 14:45.33 | qopi | the interra fella? |
| 14:45.37 | olisb | mr interra card |
| 14:45.56 | qopi | he didn't say much other than he agreed we should be talking |
| 14:47.34 | qopi | sent |
| 14:48.52 | qopi | overall, pretty positive response |
| 14:49.49 | olisb | cool, nice one |
| 14:50.54 | lisppaste2 | olisb pasted "US to attack Iran in June?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/6171 |
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| 15:18.23 | qopi | in out, shake it all about |
| 15:33.01 | evangineer | hey guys |
| 15:33.17 | evangineer | what account names do people want? |
| 15:43.52 | qopi | evangineer: what do you mean? our log-in details or the name of our subdir? or something else? |
| 15:44.44 | evangineer | for those of you who want a shell account so you can ssh, sftp and stuff. |
| 15:46.37 | qopi | evangineer: i figured that, but what exactly are you asking for |
| 15:46.49 | qopi | ? |
| 15:47.06 | qopi | well, whatever it is, I don't mind what account name really |
| 15:47.09 | qopi | josef i guess |
| 15:47.32 | qopi | olisb: what account name to you want for your account on baldrick? |
| 15:47.48 | qopi | olisb? or something else? |
| 15:47.58 | olisb | olisb |
| 15:49.05 | olisb | groovy, are we almost able to bash the baldrick? |
| 16:00.09 | olisb | qopi: did u already tell me about an sftp client fo rthe mac? |
| 16:00.57 | qopi | olisb: er, not that I can remember |
| 16:01.10 | olisb | ok |
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| 16:43.02 | qopi | (to see when he should call the Interra bloke) |
| 16:44.10 | qopi | 8.43am |
| 16:44.13 | qopi | monday morn |
| 16:44.45 | qopi | so they 8 hours behind |
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| 17:17.51 | *** join/#ud garyalex (~garyalex@213.55.23.1) |
| 17:54.28 | garyalex | olisb, josef, are you around? |
| 17:54.35 | *** join/#ud JamesMcG (~jamesmcg@host-84-9-15-103.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 17:54.43 | olisb | y |
| 17:54.55 | JamesMcG | hi all |
| 17:55.15 | garyalex | Well, I've just been on Baldrick! |
| 17:55.22 | garyalex | (Actually, I'm on it at the moment.) |
| 17:55.36 | garyalex | And so is Jamie, and olisb and qopi have accounts set up too |
| 17:56.16 | olisb | yes great, hi James |
| 17:56.27 | garyalex | Also, there is an opencoop area where we all have access and privileges |
| 17:57.27 | garyalex | I also got on using my ftp client, but then crashed when I tried to drag a random file over. |
| 17:57.46 | olisb | my ftp client failed |
| 17:57.57 | olisb | evangineer says we need to use sftp |
| 17:58.03 | olisb | which client do u use gary? |
| 17:58.07 | garyalex | Yes, I did that. |
| 17:58.12 | garyalex | Captain ftp |
| 17:58.21 | olisb | right |
| 17:58.40 | garyalex | Do you know it? A slick, fairly cheap shareware app |
| 18:00.23 | garyalex | It lets me on Baldrick, and I can browse around the file hierarchy alright. |
| 18:00.58 | olisb | so can we set up sql dbs? |
| 18:01.19 | garyalex | I presume so, JamesMcG, can you answer that? |
| 18:02.05 | garyalex | Do you need a separate copy of mysql for every app you set up? |
| 18:02.17 | evangineer | no |
| 18:02.32 | garyalex | OK, thanks evangineer |
| 18:02.42 | evangineer | you can setup separate databases running under the same mysql server instance |
| 18:03.17 | garyalex | So if we want to set up WordPress in the Open Co-op folder would we use an existing copy of mysql? |
| 18:04.02 | garyalex | OK, I understand that. |
| 18:05.08 | garyalex | Is there a copy of mysql server there already evangineer? |
| 18:05.26 | evangineer | yes |
| 18:05.37 | garyalex | where is it? |
| 18:06.02 | evangineer | waitasec |
| 18:10.17 | qopi | hello JamesMcG |
| 18:10.24 | JamesMcG | Hello |
| 18:11.22 | garyalex | hi qopi |
| 18:11.42 | garyalex | evangineer has set up accounts for us all on Baldrick |
| 18:12.13 | qopi | i know |
| 18:12.15 | qopi | :) |
| 18:12.48 | garyalex | I've been browsing around with my ftp client, but if I try to search or transfer a file it crashes. |
| 18:14.50 | olisb | good mail from Interra tho! |
| 18:15.11 | qopi | yeah, if i wasn't feeling a bit hung over i'd give them a call now |
| 18:15.58 | garyalex | Oh, can I have a bit? |
| 18:16.38 | qopi | no, all mine! |
| 18:18.27 | qopi | garyalex: i checked out your dance camp site |
| 18:18.36 | qopi | i think it needs some tense updating |
| 18:18.59 | qopi | it seems to switch between what you did in the past and what you're doing to do at the next one |
| 18:19.05 | garyalex | Oh, probably. It was set up for the previous camp and then updated for the forthcoming one. |
| 18:19.19 | qopi | yes, it notices |
| 18:19.22 | qopi | :) |
| 18:19.23 | garyalex | I noticed that too. |
| 18:19.48 | garyalex | Do you fancy coming? qopi, olisb, jamesmcg? |
| 18:20.21 | qopi | when is it again? |
| 18:20.23 | qopi | august? |
| 18:20.31 | qopi | how much? |
| 18:20.36 | garyalex | 12-21 august |
| 18:20.55 | garyalex | £155 if paid in full by 1 june, otherwise £165 |
| 18:20.59 | qopi | garyalex: i've just remembered another thing about the site that I think needs changing / clarifying |
| 18:21.01 | evangineer | garyalex, mysql is running now. doesn't have any databases setup on it yet. |
| 18:21.25 | garyalex | thanks evangineer. Do you want to come to a Dance Camp? |
| 18:21.34 | qopi | what is the url of the dance camp site again? |
| 18:21.41 | garyalex | dancecampeast.org |
| 18:22.01 | garyalex | Very much an amateur job, but I thought pretty good for that. |
| 18:22.24 | garyalex | We don't get many bookings that way. It's mostly by word of mouth and brochure. |
| 18:22.49 | garyalex | Yes, I would have guessed that :) |
| 18:23.15 | qopi | "we ask campers and staff not to invite friends or even close family to visit the camp." |
| 18:23.33 | qopi | it sounds like you don't want people to come |
| 18:23.38 | garyalex | It is very much a closed camp. |
| 18:23.43 | qopi | i know what you really mean |
| 18:23.52 | garyalex | We don't want people who haven't booked coming on the site. |
| 18:24.10 | garyalex | Strangers stand out very clearly after a few days. |
| 18:24.42 | garyalex | I'm off to make dinner now. CU all later. |
| 18:24.46 | qopi | slater |
| 18:25.22 | qopi | but that part could be said in a clearer/nicer way methinks |
| 18:27.04 | qopi | garyalex: do lots of children go to the camp? is it mostly families? |
| 18:37.29 | qopi | and if not, why he bothers to close his IRC client at all |
| 18:52.07 | olisb | i think he no like being connected! |
| 18:53.58 | olisb | evangineer, thanks for the sftp access, i'm wondering if you're planning any cpanel and phpadmin type interfaces to allow us set up dbs and the like? |
| 18:54.25 | qopi | that why I asked if evangineer had gotten round to checking out http://syscp.de |
| 18:54.34 | olisb | i'm not sure how to set up a mysql db another way |
| 18:55.08 | olisb | or view stats, manage cron jobs, subdomains, perms etc... |
| 18:55.33 | evangineer | I am planning on doing that stuff, I just gave out logins for those who were getting (correctly) impatient |
| 18:56.27 | olisb | ok, any idea how long that might take as login alone is not much use to me without it...? |
| 18:57.28 | evangineer | JamesMcG has sudo access so he can take care of any immediate needs you might have. |
| 18:58.51 | olisb | hmm, that's a bit third hand for my liking (increeases my dependence on others, hence slows me down) it'd be good to know when if poss..? |
| 18:58.53 | qopi | JamesMcG: wanna try installing http://syscp.de ;) |
| 18:59.05 | qopi | tehe |
| 19:02.21 | olisb | also, should I only sftp stuff up to the olisb folder? and is there a url where I can see that? |
| 19:02.38 | olisb | (sorry to be such a newbie! :) ) |
| 19:04.25 | qopi | evangineer: i understand totally how hard it is to actually do things being a compulsive infomation absorber/researcher myself, but we are kinda relying on you to get up cpanel like tools pretty quickly |
| 19:04.48 | qopi | (doesn't think saying that will actually help much, but hey ;P ) |
| 19:05.45 | qopi | Info-absorbers-anonymous |
| 19:06.10 | qopi | and use it to recruit further members of ARU |
| 19:06.17 | qopi | anti-reinvention-unit |
| 19:06.34 | qopi | nooooooooooooooooooooo |
| 19:06.40 | qopi | come back! |
| 19:06.46 | *** join/#ud phenny (sbp@vorpal.notabug.com) |
| 19:06.57 | qopi | thank god |
| 19:06.59 | qopi | phew |
| 19:08.51 | evangineer | olisb, /home/opencoop is a common area that can be used by everyone |
| 19:11.00 | qopi | :) |
| 19:11.25 | evangineer | olisb, UserDirs is turned on. |
| 19:11.26 | JamesMcG | it would download the relivant packages, apply the various patches and install syscp on the server then ask me a couple of config questions :-) |
| 19:12.10 | qopi | evangineer: any reason for us not to try it out? |
| 19:12.44 | qopi | know of any other OS control panels? (assumes so) |
| 19:12.52 | evangineer | olisb, so anything sitting in a public_html folder directory under a home directory will be visible |
| 19:13.21 | evangineer | qopi, the one I'm planning to use is vertigo, when I finish setting the other stuff up. |
| 19:16.44 | qopi | what other stuff? |
| 19:18.57 | qopi | evangineer: one more: url for vertigo? |
| 19:30.28 | qopi | olisb: just got a reply from marcos |
| 19:30.32 | qopi | "ok. it is the must fuel economic car in it's class. but I understand. cheers anyways, " |
| 19:30.48 | qopi | i assume he means most and not must |
| 19:31.56 | qopi | btw, you planning to go to that SIMPOL Policy Forum wotsit? |
| 19:32.12 | qopi | the one at the House of Lords on Monetary Reform |
| 19:34.38 | olisb | yeah, when is that? |
| 19:36.38 | *** join/#ud garyalex (~garyalex@213.55.23.1) |
| 19:38.07 | olisb | evangineer, i dont have perms to upload to opencoop folder |
| 19:39.57 | olisb | gary, did u manage to ftp anything yet? |
| 19:40.52 | olisb | do u know what url to look at to see fiiles in /olisb ? |
| 19:44.47 | olisb | qopi, do u know? |
| 19:45.50 | qopi | olisb: no, unfortunately not |
| 19:46.02 | olisb | oh well |
| 19:46.20 | qopi | i just tried looking at http://baldrick.open.ac.uk but couldn |
| 19:46.32 | qopi | t find anything other than that holding page |
| 19:47.46 | qopi | olisb, garyalex, anyonw: what would you say my stengths are? |
| 19:47.54 | qopi | what am I good at? |
| 19:48.01 | olisb | smoking? |
| 19:48.04 | qopi | s/good/best |
| 19:48.14 | qopi | very funny |
| 19:48.18 | olisb | definitely |
| 19:48.26 | olisb | who for? |
| 19:48.30 | qopi | hardly smoked since thursday actually |
| 19:48.35 | qopi | :) |
| 19:48.43 | olisb | golly! |
| 19:49.19 | qopi | generally |
| 19:49.45 | qopi | had a couple of pulls on friday and a couple of pulls on sunday, and that's it |
| 20:00.41 | qopi | in out, shake it all about |
| 20:06.30 | evangineer | olisb, wrt perms you may need to logout and log back in again |
| 20:08.24 | qopi | olisb: did you every try to download the webcal patch? |
| 20:09.44 | qopi | methinks that is maybe why you couldn't get it to work before - we didn't have the patch |
| 20:09.54 | olisb | thanks evangineer, i still cant find the file i ahve uploaded tho, what ur should i llok at? |
| 20:10.07 | evangineer | olisb, stuff in your public_html folder is visible at http://baldrick.open.ac.uk/~olisb/ |
| 20:10.17 | olisb | ah ta |
| 20:10.18 | qopi | ah, the ~ |
| 20:10.49 | olisb | h-ho :) |
| 20:11.06 | olisb | qopi: no i dint, i'll check it out one day! |
| 20:11.22 | qopi | that would be cool |
| 20:11.23 | olisb | thanbks tho, i didnt realsie there was a ptch |
| 20:12.33 | qopi | enjoy! |
| 21:17.48 | *** join/#ud garyalex (~garyalex@213.55.23.1) |
| 21:19.18 | qopi | wb garyalex |
| 21:19.22 | garyalex | hi qopi |
| 21:19.37 | qopi | do you like the hokey koky? |
| 21:19.40 | garyalex | any exciting discussions since I left? |
| 21:19.47 | garyalex | A bit corny! |
| 21:20.17 | garyalex | In answer to your earlier question, there are lots of families and children at the Dance Camp but also lots of single. |
| 21:25.32 | qopi | garyalex: i was just wondering (about the hokey koky) since you seem to like going in and out of the channel :P |
| 21:25.49 | qopi | often, when you leave, I say "in out, shake it all about" :P |
| 21:25.59 | garyalex | That's because I use a laptop :D |
| 21:26.19 | garyalex | It goes to sleep anytime I don't pay it enough attention. |
| 21:27.12 | qopi | ah, i see, that explains it |
| 21:27.17 | qopi | power-saving |
| 21:27.34 | garyalex | energy-saving |
| 21:27.46 | qopi | i.e. not the connection |
| 21:28.06 | garyalex | Interesting, perhaps I could set mine like that too. |
| 21:28.42 | qopi | probably, though I didn't set anything, that's just how mine is |
| 21:29.40 | garyalex | Yes, I have separate controls for 'put the computer to sleep' and 'put the display to sleep'. I've change the 'computer' to never. |
| 21:29.55 | garyalex | That way I should get a more complete log when I'm on IRC. |
| 21:30.18 | garyalex | qopi: we really have to get Open Co-op moving. |
| 21:30.42 | garyalex | We need some groups as clients to work with. |
| 21:30.58 | garyalex | Your a big networker. What can you find? |
| 21:31.42 | garyalex | So many people love our vision. But is it just a fantasy or is it achievable? |
| 21:32.12 | qopi | garyalex: i'm not sure we've got anything to offer anyone atm |
| 21:32.50 | garyalex | It's a chicken and egg problem. without clients we don't know what we can create too. |
| 21:33.07 | garyalex | We agreed that we would start with existing open source packages. |
| 21:33.27 | garyalex | We need some really tame, friendly groups who will put up with our learning! |
| 21:33.36 | garyalex | Just a few to start with. |
| 21:34.18 | garyalex | It's not the software we are offering, its is the way to use it that begins to implement our vision. |
| 21:36.36 | qopi | garyalex: i think people use it like that already |
| 21:36.50 | qopi | we're no experts |
| 21:36.54 | qopi | we don't even blog |
| 21:37.29 | garyalex | Well, I do a little on Open Co-op, and I've been thinking about a serious personal blog. |
| 21:38.51 | qopi | garyalex: i can't hurt |
| 21:39.03 | garyalex | ?? |
| 21:39.12 | qopi | it can't hurt |
| 21:39.39 | qopi | but to be honest, i doubt you'd become an A-list blogger, if that is your intention? |
| 21:39.54 | garyalex | An A-list blogger? |
| 21:40.14 | garyalex | What letter could I become? :) |
| 21:40.33 | qopi | i dunno |
| 21:40.51 | qopi | depends how insightful you are and how well you write and what you write about |
| 21:41.25 | garyalex | Suppose I could do that well, which is possible, how would I get my blog well known? |
| 21:41.56 | qopi | you'd get other top bloggers to blog about stuff you write |
| 21:42.06 | qopi | and link to you |
| 21:42.25 | qopi | i no expert to be honest |
| 21:43.03 | qopi | that would work, but then you'd prob have to spend a lot of time reading their blogs and linking to what they say, making insightful comments on it |
| 21:43.43 | garyalex | Oh I see. The trick is to find them and comment on their blogs, in the hope that they would then look at mine. |
| 21:43.55 | qopi | i guess that is one trick |
| 21:43.59 | garyalex | Who are the relevant A list bloggers? |
| 21:44.08 | garyalex | How would I find them? |
| 21:45.26 | garyalex | Qopi: on a similar track, I've been thinking about running a conference, as you know. How would I find good projects and speakers for that? |
| 21:47.15 | qopi | garyalex: i afraid to say that if you can't discover that from surfing, then your chances of becoming one are serverly hampered |
| 21:47.41 | qopi | garyalex: a good conference imho doesn't have speakers |
| 21:47.47 | garyalex | How do you surf the blogosphere? |
| 21:48.10 | garyalex | It shouldn't be dominated by speakers but it does need some. |
| 21:48.22 | qopi | .g "a-list bloggers" |
| 21:48.28 | garyalex | People who have something to say or report |
| 21:48.28 | phenny | "a-list bloggers": http://radio.weblogs.com/0001011/blogparody.htm |
| 21:48.35 | qopi | that might be a starting point? |
| 21:49.56 | garyalex | Very funny :D |
| 21:50.11 | garyalex | But yes, it could be a starting point! |
| 21:50.55 | qopi | .g blogshares |
| 21:50.57 | phenny | blogshares: http://www.blogshares.com/ |
| 21:51.05 | qopi | .g technorati |
| 21:51.08 | phenny | technorati: http://www.technorati.com/ |
| 21:51.23 | tav | it'd be pretty impossible to become an a-list blogger if starting now... |
| 21:51.36 | olisb | says who |
| 21:51.38 | qopi | indeed |
| 21:51.49 | tav | a blog now is just another one of millions of the blogging masses |
| 21:52.07 | qopi | says first mover in netoworks |
| 21:52.07 | tav | olisb: my deep familiarity of the blogosphere |
| 21:52.16 | olisb | it's not what u got, it's what u do with it etc... |
| 21:52.17 | garyalex | OK guys, are there any bloggers who are really worth reading? |
| 21:52.25 | qopi | garyalex: lots of them |
| 21:52.36 | qopi | and some group blogs too |
| 21:52.39 | garyalex | Thanks, that's a great help ;) |
| 21:52.47 | garyalex | even better. |
| 21:52.49 | tav | depends what you like |
| 21:52.50 | qopi | but "worth reading" is very relative |
| 21:53.12 | *** join/#ud simmo (~simmo@adsl-18-27.swiftdsl.com.au) |
| 21:53.17 | qopi | wb simmo |
| 21:53.32 | olisb | yo simmo |
| 21:53.44 | garyalex | bloggers who express similar world views, or views relevant to Open Co-op |
| 21:53.50 | simmo | :) re |
| 21:53.55 | qopi | garyalex: you might want to start with World Changing |
| 21:53.59 | qopi | and Smart Mobs |
| 21:54.00 | garyalex | Simmo: do you have a favourite blogger? |
| 21:54.06 | qopi | .g world changing |
| 21:54.08 | phenny | world changing: http://www.worldchanging.com/ |
| 21:54.13 | qopi | .g smart mobs |
| 21:54.16 | phenny | smart mobs: http://www.smartmobs.com/ |
| 21:54.25 | simmo | garyalex nope - someone leses ;) |
| 21:54.27 | qopi | and all the people they link to |
| 21:54.28 | simmo | else |
| 21:54.36 | qopi | and all the people they link to ad infinitum |
| 21:54.49 | simmo | still meaning to set up one for me .. prolly a wiki |
| 21:55.06 | simmo | or you mean blogger as in human author of blogs? |
| 21:55.17 | garyalex | Sure. Good starting points. |
| 21:55.25 | garyalex | either simmo |
| 21:55.57 | simmo | hmm .. groklaw maybe |
| 21:56.11 | simmo | or that other free software lawyer .. |
| 21:57.25 | qopi | garyalex: http://del.icio.us/tag/blog is a starting point also |
| 21:59.28 | qopi | and maybe do some searches on http://feedster.com for key words you're interested in |
| 21:59.58 | qopi | but, really, if you're to succeed, you'll need to be able to discover such things independently :P |
| 22:00.29 | qopi | http://joi.ito.com is a very famous blogger |
| 22:00.37 | olisb | news make a top blog imho, think iraqyblogger... |
| 22:00.57 | qopi | yes, topical can work too |
| 22:01.20 | garyalex | joi ito was on that A-list parody site |
| 22:01.20 | qopi | but i doubt it gets many hits |
| 22:01.27 | qopi | he would be |
| 22:01.37 | qopi | g. malung tv news |
| 22:01.38 | olisb | and rediculously welll informed extremely opinionated waffle |
| 22:01.58 | qopi | olisb: yeah, that seems to be a winner too |
| 22:02.23 | qopi | phenny: ? |
| 22:02.30 | qopi | ah |
| 22:02.34 | qopi | .g malung tv news |
| 22:02.37 | phenny | malung tv news: http://blogcatalog.com/directory/personal/humor/10 |
| 22:02.41 | olisb | which i why i say its easily poss toi become a top blogger |
| 22:03.37 | qopi | olisb: only if some of the existing rediculously welll informed extremely opinionated wafflers link to you a lot |
| 22:03.38 | garyalex | I'm already one of the top Gary Alexander's on Google! :) |
| 22:03.54 | qopi | else, like tavs say's you're just another in the millions |
| 22:04.17 | qopi | garyalex: i guess you're open.ac.uk google juice could help |
| 22:04.32 | qopi | not quite sure how though |
| 22:04.40 | olisb | i dunno, if you are so way out or cool calm and collected and blooging pure truth i think people find u regardless of links |
| 22:05.11 | qopi | olisb: how? |
| 22:05.11 | garyalex | Amen ;) |
| 22:05.33 | qopi | maybe if you get tagged on delicious |
| 22:05.33 | olisb | your name helps too, imagine if Saddam started blogging... |
| 22:05.46 | olisb | people tell people stuff u know |
| 22:05.48 | qopi | .g saddam blog |
| 22:05.50 | phenny | saddam blog: http://saddamhussein.blogspot.com/ |
| 22:05.59 | olisb | the whoile world isnt linked on the web... |
| 22:07.36 | garyalex | That saddam blog is very funny! |
| 22:10.29 | olisb | one set of groups which would be good are the freecycle pose, d'ya think they might be up for some OS solutions instead of yahoo |
| 22:13.08 | garyalex | olisb: yes, that's a good idea. We could think of ways to give them an enhanced service. |
| 22:13.34 | olisb | the only enahncement i can see is no ads |
| 22:14.42 | tav | hmz, you guys mind if i join in the conversation? |
| 22:14.59 | garyalex | Hi Tav, welcome |
| 22:15.05 | tav | hey |
| 22:15.24 | tav | well, i've been very confused about open.coop lately |
| 22:15.36 | olisb | wot conversation... |
| 22:15.43 | olisb | oh, right... |
| 22:16.25 | tav | so, first i thought you guys had a clear plan about what you want to do. but, reading recent conversations it seems that you are kind of stuck in a runaround of sorts? not really sure which direction to head off in, but wanting to? |
| 22:16.47 | tav | sorry if that's the wrong impression and not meaning to offend... |
| 22:17.03 | olisb | to some extent it's right |
| 22:17.10 | olisb | but we still know what we want to do |
| 22:17.20 | garyalex | I think the early clear plan now seems much harder than it did at first. |
| 22:17.38 | tav | olisb, which is? |
| 22:17.49 | tav | garyalex: "early clear plan" == ? |
| 22:17.51 | olisb | network the sust econ |
| 22:18.06 | garyalex | community support providers: set them up |
| 22:18.18 | olisb | faciltate with os solutions |
| 22:18.27 | tav | right -- that's the clear plan i was referring to earlier too |
| 22:18.53 | qopi | but since they are not really an org (but an idea that people have chosen to implement) |
| 22:19.04 | olisb | create a partnership agreement which enables people to contrib time for a stake in future profits..? |
| 22:19.07 | qopi | i don't see anyone who we could actually offer anything too |
| 22:19.17 | tav | that plan is pretty cool, unique (within that broad niche) and open to growth |
| 22:19.48 | tav | so, which bit is causing problems in that? |
| 22:20.04 | olisb | cash money, land etc |
| 22:20.32 | garyalex | A community support provider is a big idea, people are caught up in their own projects, don't have time for something big. |
| 22:20.54 | garyalex | I still want to go ahead with it, and think we should look more narrowly. Like local food. |
| 22:22.04 | garyalex | We need smaller simpler starting points, which still point towards the larger vision. |
| 22:24.04 | qopi | which is basically what olisb said - an off the self "open co-operative" membership agreement for an LLP |
| 22:24.27 | *** join/#ud mattis_ (~mattis@host151-179.pool8250.interbusiness.it) |
| 22:24.35 | qopi | but that is adaptable to local circunstances (somehow) |
| 22:24.39 | olisb | i still beleieve that is *the* tool for change |
| 22:25.19 | qopi | it also seems to be (kinda) what the Interra folk want to do with their toolkits for Community Alliances |
| 22:25.24 | qopi | resource mapping etc/ |
| 22:25.28 | garyalex | I suppose our current quest is a)for groups to work with us and b)ways to use existing OS software to provide a large chunk of the vision |
| 22:25.36 | qopi | which is basically using nef-like local alchemy tols |
| 22:25.58 | qopi | none of which actually involve using OS software tool at all |
| 22:26.09 | qopi | but meeting f2f |
| 22:26.17 | qopi | and signing paper forms |
| 22:27.43 | garyalex | Olisb: 'the tool for change' is the Open co-op membership agreement? |
| 22:28.02 | olisb | y |
| 22:28.28 | olisb | certainly the most powerful |
| 22:28.32 | qopi | olisb: you seem to use y as both yes and why, is that correct |
| 22:28.43 | qopi | if so, it confuses me :/ |
| 22:28.48 | garyalex | Which doesn't exist yet. :( |
| 22:28.55 | olisb | it would enable all the peeps i know who want to start cool co-ops to do so! |
| 22:28.59 | *** join/#ud lisppaste2 (~lisppaste@common-lisp.net) |
| 22:29.09 | olisb | normally I mean yes :) |
| 22:29.24 | garyalex | I keep chasing Chris Cook. I do think his ideas are good. Tantalising, but he doesn't actually come up with anything. |
| 22:29.42 | garyalex | Hi lisppaste2, interesting name you have. |
| 22:29.51 | olisb | so tav, i spose that clarifies your confusion? |
| 22:30.07 | qopi | garyalex: lisppaste2 is a bot (in case you didn't realise_ |
| 22:30.35 | olisb | it's a huge vision, we recognise that, which we're trying to approach from all angles... |
| 22:30.45 | garyalex | I didn't. Sorry lisppaste2, for taking your for a human! Why did you just join the chat room? |
| 22:31.14 | garyalex | Tav: what would you suggest we do? |
| 22:31.15 | olisb | to tell us about the war in Iran and syria? |
| 22:31.16 | qopi | bots come and go and their owners play around with/update them/do things with their servers |
| 22:31.36 | garyalex | Whop |
| 22:31.43 | garyalex | who are the bots here? |
| 22:31.46 | qopi | as their owners |
| 22:31.55 | garyalex | And who owns them? |
| 22:32.07 | qopi | garyalex: irc-stats-bot / julie / lisppaste2 / phenny / purl |
| 22:32.17 | qopi | various people own them |
| 22:32.26 | garyalex | Julie too! And I was going to chat her up! |
| 22:32.27 | olisb | u mean ixx is a person? |
| 22:32.59 | qopi | scum-person / can't remember / crschmitd (i think) / sbp / tim ricker |
| 22:33.02 | qopi | riker |
| 22:33.10 | qopi | yes ixx is a person |
| 22:33.16 | garyalex | hi ixx |
| 22:33.50 | qopi | .g codecafe |
| 22:33.50 | phenny | codecafe: http://www.codecafe.com/ |
| 22:33.50 | qopi | he is responsiblle for that i think |
| 22:33.50 | qopi | he might be very useful potentially |
| 22:33.56 | qopi | freelance coders |
| 22:34.05 | qopi | but who knows |
| 22:34.22 | qopi | ixx seems to like hanging here and in #esp though |
| 22:34.33 | qopi | so obviously like-minded to a degree :) |
| 22:35.09 | qopi | he's been idle for 5 days though |
| 22:35.15 | qopi | so doesn't say much |
| 22:35.27 | qopi | nearly 6 days |
| 22:36.51 | qopi | olisb: whois |
| 22:37.23 | qopi | but that doesn't give you a very good answer |
| 22:37.38 | olisb | i wos joking... ;) |
| 22:38.06 | qopi | idleness on irc is probably invertly proportional to real productivity |
| 22:38.20 | qopi | hence my idleness in real like :/ |
| 22:38.24 | qopi | life |
| 22:38.31 | qopi | ;) |
| 22:38.36 | olisb | :) |
| 22:39.26 | qopi | tav even told me off earlier for creating too much noise in #esp :P |
| 22:41.04 | qopi | (i.e yapping on about nonsense |
| 22:41.19 | qopi | ) |
| 22:41.21 | qopi | as in noise:signal ratio |
| 22:41.22 | qopi | but he had a point :) |
| 22:42.56 | olisb | are u on the practicenet group at groupserver? |
| 22:48.23 | olisb | wonder how long it will take them to work out i'm mguy forks 34th cousin |
| 22:48.40 | olisb | are u gonna go qopi? |
| 22:48.49 | olisb | Surely it'll be well over subscribed? |
| 22:49.06 | olisb | i cant imagine they'll really let just anyone in... |
| 22:55.11 | qopi | garyalex: btw, i've starting collecting links to blog stuff i come accross at http://del.icio.us/qopi/blog |
| 22:55.34 | qopi | and i strongly suggest you join delicious too |
| 22:56.27 | olisb | he's getting jiggy in esp |
| 22:56.38 | olisb | so r u gonna go to simpol event qopi? |
| 23:04.44 | qopi | garyalex: btw, i've very glad you had lunch with pat |
| 23:04.44 | qopi | and made friends |
| 23:04.44 | qopi | he is a very key person |
| 23:04.45 | garyalex | qopi: I've put that in a bookmark folder I've started for blogging. Thanks. |
| 23:05.11 | garyalex | I'm glad to hear you say that. I liked him a lot. |
| 23:05.22 | qopi | good |
| 23:05.35 | qopi | he seems to always be ahead of the game |
| 23:05.42 | qopi | and responsible for lots of cool things |
| 23:06.00 | qopi | especially all the community banking stuff |
| 23:06.29 | garyalex | Yes. I'm hoping we can work with him on that. |
| 23:06.42 | garyalex | He bought a copy of my book. I would have given it to him free! |
| 23:06.57 | qopi | he understands that monetary reform, land reform, and ecological taxs (real measurement) are key |
| 23:07.03 | garyalex | Yes |
| 23:07.31 | garyalex | By the way, qopi, do you use skype? |
| 23:07.39 | *** join/#ud r7_ (~r7@82-38-185-110.cable.ubr03.shef.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 23:07.45 | qopi | garyalex: you shouldn't have a bookmark folder, use should have a delicious tag |
| 23:07.53 | qopi | that way you can share it with others |
| 23:08.07 | qopi | and access it anywhere |
| 23:08.21 | garyalex | OK, I'll check it out. |
| 23:08.32 | qopi | good :) |
| 23:09.36 | qopi | it is very simple really, instead of adding things to your bookmarks, you click the little bookmarklet and add it to delicious, and then enter a description is you choose and file it by giving it tags |
| 23:09.54 | qopi | i'd better try to sleep now |
| 23:10.44 | qopi | gotta be in southwark at 10am |
| 23:12.14 | garyalex | I'm off now too. |
| 23:12.20 | *** part/#ud garyalex (~garyalex@213.55.23.1) |
| 23:54.29 | *** join/#ud purl (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 23:54.29 | *** topic/#ud is uniteddiversity & The Open Co-op. Together We Have Everything. w. http://ud.lir.be List http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/ud Newsletter http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/uniteddiversity t. +44 (0) 7800 849 287 Daily Logs http://ibot.rikers.org/%23ud/ Stats http://www.scumperson.eu.org/stats/ud.html Paste large bits of text http://paste.lisp.org/new/ud Social Diagram: http://crschmidt.net/sw_piespy/ud/ |