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| 00:54.28 | tim_abell | lindi-: yo! I think it works http://pastebin.com/QwU1xy9p |
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| 00:54.47 | tim_abell | will find out when i get out of the house and get a gps lock |
| 00:54.49 | tim_abell | laters all |
| 00:55.00 | tim_abell | feel free to add, redistribute etc |
| 00:55.14 | tim_abell | note that hardcoded path (lame) |
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| 02:31.59 | edude03 | Hello everyone |
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| 09:38.44 | michelem | hello folks |
| 09:40.14 | michelem | I have two openmoko phones, both have "date code" = 20090324 |
| 09:40.37 | michelem | but they were bought about one year apart (and actually boot different-looking OS) |
| 09:41.03 | michelem | I prepared one debian OS on microSD one the older one, then bought another one |
| 09:41.59 | michelem | but despite having exactly the same part number and date code, the new one does not boot the microSD when I move it into it |
| 09:42.08 | michelem | any clue what can cause this? |
| 09:44.10 | PaulFertser | michelem: different bootloader version. |
| 09:44.23 | PaulFertser | michelem: or if this's u-boot, different u-boot environment. |
| 09:44.40 | PaulFertser | michelem: either that, or some mechanical/electrical problem with uSD. |
| 09:45.56 | michelem | makes sense, let me try to update the U-Boot |
| 09:59.54 | *** join/#openmoko apt (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 09:59.54 | *** topic/#openmoko is Openmoko Mobile Phone Hardware users | WikiReader channel #openmoko-wikireader | Developers channel #openmoko-cdevel | German folks channel #openmoko-de | New Users read http://wiki.openmoko.org + http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html | logs http://is.gd/fiQwM | distro-specific channels: #qtmoko, #android-on-freerunner, #openmoko-debian |
| 10:00.03 | michelem | and lsusb actually shows no moko devices attached |
| 10:00.50 | PaulFertser | michelem: the recommended way to flash is with nor u-boot. |
| 10:02.24 | michelem | yes |
| 10:02.48 | michelem | AUX + power, get U-Boot screen, run dfu-util from there. There I get this message |
| 10:03.02 | PaulFertser | michelem: first hold AUX, then press power. |
| 10:03.09 | michelem | yep |
| 10:03.20 | michelem | I do see the U-Boot screen and all |
| 10:03.22 | PaulFertser | michelem: provided your cable is good, port is good and os is sane, dfu-util should see it. |
| 10:03.40 | michelem | ouh |
| 10:04.05 | michelem | i "pushed in" the cable more and it's now working |
| 10:05.14 | michelem | nice. |
| 10:05.19 | PaulFertser | michelem: if you use u-boot, then you should care about the environment too. |
| 10:05.49 | michelem | yes, I'm vegetarian indeed. |
| 10:06.27 | PaulFertser | michelem: lacto-ovo? Or a more strict one? |
| 10:06.37 | michelem | lacto ovo |
| 10:06.43 | PaulFertser | Same here |
| 10:06.48 | michelem | :) |
| 10:07.10 | michelem | what's with the uboot environment? |
| 10:07.41 | michelem | it works btw, essentially I needed a way to replicate the OS I prepared on an SD card |
| 10:08.00 | michelem | re-flashing the u-boot provides. |
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| 10:11.59 | PaulFertser | michelem: i meant that by reflashing u-boot to the same version you do not guarantee that the environment (and hence the menu and boot options and parameters) is the same. |
| 10:13.09 | michelem | ok |
| 10:13.34 | michelem | btw, it still seems to me to have the GPS / SD interference problem |
| 10:14.25 | michelem | I do not have the capacitor from http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/d/dd/Gta02_gps_10pf_rework_sop.pdf |
| 10:15.18 | michelem | but the hardware is from March 2009 indeed (that fix seems from 2008) |
| 10:15.23 | michelem | 2008 ) |
| 10:17.24 | PaulFertser | michelem: gps/sd interference is supposed to be completely mitigated by the kernel fix, capacitor is not necessary. |
| 10:18.16 | michelem | I'm checking through to verify that my debian version has that patch |
| 10:23.07 | PaulFertser | I'm a debian user too but i've always used a self-compiled kernel of course. |
| 10:24.23 | michelem | gosh. glamo-mci.0: glamo_mci driver ©2007 Openmoko, Inc |
| 10:24.58 | michelem | PaulFertser: why of course? I didn't have any issue until needing this GPS stuff |
| 10:25.05 | michelem | s/until/before |
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| 10:27.56 | PaulFertser | michelem: as i was somewhat involved in the kernel work ever since i bought my FR. |
| 10:28.22 | PaulFertser | michelem: copyright date in the file doesn't mean much. |
| 10:47.52 | michelem | PaulFertser: which out of the 100 kernel distributions listed on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianOnFreeRunner#KernelBranchesinAutumn2010 would you recommend? |
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| 10:48.59 | michelem | essentially, this is for a mobile app for time tracking to use in production, so stability is critical, battery life important, performance not. But the GPS fix must be in |
| 10:56.11 | PaulFertser | michelem: are you going to put your device in suspend-to-ram ever? |
| 10:56.33 | michelem | if possible, yes, but no big deal |
| 10:56.54 | michelem | it's not used as a phone, just to use this application. They can as well turn it on/off when needed |
| 10:57.06 | PaulFertser | michelem: there's one critical bug but it's rare and strange enough to not be fixed... |
| 10:57.12 | michelem | but if suspend works, it's convenient to avoid the 2 minutes of boot time |
| 10:57.31 | michelem | rare = unfrequent? |
| 10:57.41 | michelem | infrequent, sorry |
| 10:58.09 | michelem | uhm let's go without then, anyway |
| 10:58.36 | PaulFertser | michelem: judge for yourself: http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket//2309 |
| 10:58.39 | michelem | I prefer that the customer have UX complaints to stability ones |
| 10:59.30 | PaulFertser | michelem: i'm not sure but i suspect that 2.6.32 is as stable as 2.6.29. |
| 10:59.41 | michelem | ok |
| 10:59.56 | michelem | I didn't get whether this fix http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d04b142ffeaa15129f046751f1366b0f0614f47 |
| 11:00.04 | michelem | made it into the upstream kernel |
| 11:00.26 | michelem | or at least, "linux-image-2.6.29-openmoko-gta02" |
| 11:01.14 | PaulFertser | michelem: it most probably did, yes. You can check it on a running system with ls /sys/modules/glamo_mci/parameters |
| 11:02.00 | michelem | thx |
| 11:02.10 | michelem | in fact it appears to be on my current system too |
| 11:02.24 | michelem | still the GPS doesn't get fixes in 5 minutes |
| 11:02.51 | PaulFertser | michelem: you can play with the tweaks run-time by echoing the values to the sysfs nodes, the effect is almost immediate. |
| 11:03.15 | michelem | yes, I'm now reading that doc and will try to play around |
| 11:03.29 | michelem | actually, I don't care about GPS other than for the clock |
| 11:03.30 | PaulFertser | michelem: probably you have problems with antenna connector. |
| 11:03.46 | michelem | because after few days of phone off, the clock is reset to y2000 |
| 11:03.58 | michelem | PaulFertser: antenna connector? |
| 11:04.12 | michelem | I have no external antenna. But same problem on both hardware phones |
| 11:04.36 | PaulFertser | michelem: i mean internal connector, but it's strange you have issues on both devices. |
| 11:04.46 | PaulFertser | michelem: how exactly doesn't it work? |
| 11:05.23 | michelem | ntpq -p shows |
| 11:05.23 | michelem | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:05.23 | michelem | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:05.49 | michelem | and if I open NeronGPS it won't get fixes in minutes |
| 11:06.13 | PaulFertser | michelem: no, how exactly gps doesn't work? I mean what exactly you use and how trying to make it work? |
| 11:06.30 | michelem | rebooting, tell you in a sec... |
| 11:07.02 | michelem | there's something I don't get about the environment btw |
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| 11:07.22 | michelem | when booting the phone, I see after <3sec the "INIT:" prompt already |
| 11:07.34 | michelem | and in the initial distribution there was no "linux-image" package |
| 11:08.02 | michelem | so when/how/by who is the kernel booted? 3s seems too fast |
| 11:10.51 | michelem | and indeed, even installing linux-image-2.6.34-openmoko-gta02, dmesg still starts "Linux version 2.6.29-rc3-v24" |
| 11:12.04 | michelem | GPS: I just run "/usr/sbin/gpsd -n -F /var/run/gpsd.sock -P /var/run/gpsd.pid /dev/ttySAC1" at boot |
| 11:12.53 | michelem | then run ntpd on it ("server 127.127.28.0 minpoll 4 maxpoll 4" "fudge 127.127.28.0 time1 0.420 refid GPS" etc) and get no time set |
| 11:13.23 | PaulFertser | michelem: kernel is booted by the bootloader. |
| 11:13.43 | michelem | i'm trying to read about that |
| 11:13.52 | PaulFertser | michelem: but when you boot from uSD, most probably you have you BL configured to load kernel from /boot/uImage-GTA02 or something like that. |
| 11:14.13 | PaulFertser | michelem: you should also power on the GPS device by using the corresponding sysnode. |
| 11:14.20 | michelem | and that partition is mounted from the internal flas? |
| 11:14.49 | PaulFertser | michelem: no, /boot is just a directory on SD. It used to be a separate (first) fat partition on uSD for old u-boot versions. |
| 11:16.41 | michelem | I don't find refs to powering it up |
| 11:17.21 | michelem | Jan 1 02:23:16 neo Qtopia: Powering GPS on |
| 11:17.35 | michelem | apparently the app does it already |
| 11:17.51 | PaulFertser | michelem: probably you shouldn't be starting qpe to have a more predictable system? |
| 11:18.12 | michelem | what do you mean? |
| 11:18.15 | PaulFertser | michelem: i mean really, if you use your own gpsd instance, i think you should rather avoid possibilities for other apps to grab the port. |
| 11:19.20 | michelem | I didn't check through the logs before |
| 11:19.27 | PaulFertser | michelem: /sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-gps.0/ |
| 11:19.33 | PaulFertser | power_on there iirc |
| 11:19.36 | michelem | Qtopia seems to try to update the clock from GPS already |
| 11:30.11 | PaulFertser | michelem: btw, do you know about the package "omhacks"? |
| 11:30.19 | PaulFertser | michelem: that's what you should use to toggle gps power. |
| 11:30.49 | PaulFertser | michelem: and make sure you disable everything gps-related in qtopia, that way you'll have full control over it, with your own gpsd and omhacks. |
| 11:31.27 | michelem | I tried to install it before but it's only in sid |
| 11:31.31 | michelem | and I run testing |
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| 11:32.18 | PaulFertser | michelem: is it really dependent on something that's not in testing? |
| 11:32.53 | lindi- | PaulFertser: qtmoko has omhacks but it is not in package management system |
| 11:33.05 | lindi- | PaulFertser: they build it a part of qtopia to /opt |
| 11:33.12 | michelem | hmm, it's there, why do I get can't find package then |
| 11:33.24 | lindi- | michelem: because it's not in a package :) |
| 11:33.28 | PaulFertser | lindi-: you're good at answering question before they're asked :) |
| 11:33.37 | michelem | it is :) http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=omhacks&searchon=names&suite=all§ion=all |
| 11:33.43 | lindi- | michelem: but not in qtmoko |
| 11:33.58 | lindi- | they also omit the manual page |
| 11:34.00 | michelem | I actually run debian |
| 11:34.18 | lindi- | michelem: ah |
| 11:34.26 | lindi- | michelem: well omhacks is in squeeze |
| 11:34.53 | lindi- | michelem: and pkg-fso |
| 11:35.09 | michelem | oh, I actually run stable, not testing. |
| 11:35.51 | michelem | find /opt/qtmoko -name omhacks â> none |
| 11:36.10 | lindi- | michelem: ok |
| 11:36.32 | lindi- | michelem: you probably want to build omhacks for stable then, it shouldn't have too much dependencies |
| 11:36.52 | lindi- | the manual page generation depends on a few new help2man switches though |
| 11:37.10 | michelem | maybe someone can pass me the plain binary? :) |
| 11:37.27 | michelem | or I'll just fetch the deb by hand and dpkg -i -f it |
| 11:37.36 | lindi- | michelem: that's not recommended |
| 11:37.55 | michelem | btw, what's with apt-get bitching "N: Ignoring file 'freesmartphone-org' in directory '/etc/apt/sources.list.d/' as it has no filename extension |
| 11:38.13 | michelem | ls /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ â> backports freesmartphone-org |
| 11:38.34 | lindi- | michelem: are you sure you are running stable? where did that freesmartphone-org come from? |
| 11:38.41 | michelem | me by hand |
| 11:39.01 | michelem | I'll just move those to sources.list and workaround the pain |
| 11:42.21 | michelem | thanks for all btw :) |
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| 11:43.01 | lindi- | michelem: you could 1) add deb-src http://ftp.fi.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main |
| 11:43.05 | lindi- | michelem: 2) apt-get update |
| 11:43.11 | lindi- | michelem: 3) apt-get build-dep omhacks |
| 11:43.17 | lindi- | michelem: 4) apt-get --build source omhacks |
| 11:43.26 | lindi- | michelem: to rebuild omhacks for lenny |
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| 13:09.00 | michelem1 | ok, GPS takes minutes to get the fix |
| 13:09.13 | michelem1 | that exceeds my reqs |
| 13:10.01 | michelem1 | GSM contains timing information (NITZ), and I've seen Gsmd has been replaced with Qtopia's own stack. Anyone knows if/how to get the NITZ info from Qtopia? |
| 13:10.22 | michelem1 | I can get no info on that |
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| 13:14.02 | PaulFertser | michelem1: on my device gps takes ~40 seconds to get fix. |
| 13:14.03 | gena4x | michelem1: in qtmoko, nerongps can show gps time. you may use it's code as example, or use nerongps as tool to view gps clock. |
| 13:14.53 | michelem1 | I'm trying to take the problem from a practical PoV |
| 13:15.21 | michelem1 | it took me over 5 hours between reading up and trying to track down the problem, and I don't see the end yet |
| 13:16.07 | michelem1 | also it's hard to debug because there is no feedback/logging or debugging tool for GPS |
| 13:16.13 | gena4x | which distribution you using? |
| 13:16.16 | lindi- | michelem1: cat /dev/gps? |
| 13:16.26 | michelem1 | PaulFertser: does it work for you indoor (with windows)? |
| 13:16.51 | PaulFertser | michelem1: indoor it's not supposed to work at all. |
| 13:16.55 | PaulFertser | michelem1: so it depends |
| 13:17.22 | gena4x | my garmin can't get fix indoor, so don't expect that from fr |
| 13:17.46 | PaulFertser | michelem1: if i place the device very-very close to the window, near it's lower central part, i get a fix usually. |
| 13:17.57 | michelem1 | iPhone works indoor :) |
| 13:18.10 | PaulFertser | michelem1: nah, it can't |
| 13:18.24 | michelem1 | PaulFertser: yeah, that's what I tried in the last attempts. Still no fix in 10' |
| 13:18.26 | PaulFertser | michelem1: gps signal is too weak to reliably pass through. |
| 13:18.34 | michelem1 | PaulFertser: seriously. It works. |
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| 13:18.42 | gena4x | my garmin can see 1-2 sats indoor usually, so it can track current position |
| 13:18.45 | PaulFertser | michelem1: btw, you do not need a fix to get current time i'd say. |
| 13:18.49 | lindi- | michelem1: if you fetch ephemeris and almanac via gprs you'll get fix faster |
| 13:18.51 | gena4x | but can't get fix |
| 13:18.53 | michelem1 | it's not very precise (50m?) but it gets a position |
| 13:18.56 | PaulFertser | michelem1: and yes, agps helps a lot. |
| 13:19.09 | lindi- | michelem1: iphone uses wlan base station ids too? |
| 13:19.24 | michelem1 | lindi-: I'd like to get it working simple and slow first :) |
| 13:19.39 | gena4x | michelem1: but which distro you using? |
| 13:19.42 | PaulFertser | michelem1: i mean your iphone most probably uses agps, so no wonder it performs better. |
| 13:19.43 | michelem1 | lindi-: that worked with WiFi off and GPRS off |
| 13:20.02 | lindi- | michelem1: they are valid for several hours |
| 13:20.04 | michelem1 | guys don't take it as a neg :) |
| 13:20.25 | PaulFertser | michelem1: yeah, ephemeris last for 2-4 hours. |
| 13:20.26 | michelem1 | gena4x: debian lenny |
| 13:20.43 | lindi- | michelem1: and it could easily cache some wlan info too |
| 13:20.54 | michelem1 | I'm trying to shoot a very simple problem: |
| 13:21.18 | michelem1 | this is used on some oil platforms with an RFID reader attached (USB) to track when teams go on mission |
| 13:21.48 | michelem1 | so there is no WiFi for days/weeks, possibly no GSM, but there is clear sky (with a fair bit of reflection tho) |
| 13:21.56 | michelem1 | all I want is to get reliable time |
| 13:22.06 | PaulFertser | michelem1: clear sky should provide your ~40 fix time. |
| 13:22.10 | PaulFertser | 40s |
| 13:23.28 | gena4x | michelem1: why not launch gpsd or whatever you want? |
| 13:23.52 | michelem1 | gena4x: I do (plus ntpd) but indeed it sets nothing |
| 13:24.06 | gena4x | michelem1: add some code? |
| 13:24.22 | PaulFertser | michelem1: indoor tests do not really correlate with the clear sky condition. |
| 13:24.54 | gena4x | fr has hard time to get fix 'in car door' too |
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| 13:27.03 | gena4x | michelem1: basically time is just one more line in NMEA protocol, just read it and that's all? |
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| 13:32.09 | michelem1 | I'm tackling another problem with WiFi at the moment. |
| 13:32.27 | michelem1 | since updating u-boot eth0 (wifi) is not detected anymore |
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| 13:34.53 | gena4x | michelem1: which version of u-boot you using now? |
| 13:35.26 | gena4x | michelem1: or you updated just environment? |
| 13:36.47 | michelem1 | gena4x: thanks :) let me locate the problem first, I'll save you some time. |
| 13:37.52 | michelem1 | I have two phones, it may have happened that I flashed both. Which sucks, because I have the mid-term demo at the customer tomorrow morning :) |
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| 15:08.39 | michelem1 | uhm |
| 15:08.51 | michelem1 | about the g_ether.host_addr and .dev_addr |
| 15:09.15 | michelem1 | I guess U-Boot sets those params to the kernel |
| 15:09.25 | michelem1 | are they actually a static MAC address assignment? |
| 15:17.25 | gena4x | g_ether is 'usb gadget ether'. overwise what's 'host addr' and 'dev addr' in wifi? |
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| 15:34.56 | michelem1 | indeed. |
| 15:35.20 | michelem1 | I don't get why on phone1 wifi is eth0, and on phone2 it's eth1, with no eth0 interface existing |
| 15:35.55 | Broam | I've seen that once or twice with other linux systems (not necessary GNU) |
| 15:36.06 | Broam | I had a machine where the wireless card was wlan1, always |
| 15:36.46 | michelem1 | that's a pain :) |
| 15:37.10 | Broam | it was weird, it was detected as wlan0 then immediately re-detected as wlan1. not sure why |
| 15:37.21 | Broam | i figured it was just the driver |
| 15:37.49 | Broam | michelem1: I get the g.ether stuff and I use qi |
| 15:38.05 | michelem1 | http://trac.hackable1.org/trac/ticket/88 |
| 15:38.06 | Broam | 4 lines on boot saying "I don't know what this parameter is" |
| 15:38.33 | michelem1 | what surprises me is that both Qi and the OS image is 1:1 same |
| 15:40.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | there's some renaming mechanism that assigns same ethX to a particular mac addr |
| 15:59.58 | michelem1 | so by the way |
| 16:00.14 | michelem1 | concerning the GPS problem above: it works outside |
| 16:09.03 | lindi- | michelem1: external antenna might be what you want |
| 16:09.14 | Broam | lucky you michelem1. Mine used to work w/ SHR but doesn't w/ QtMoko |
| 16:09.17 | Broam | never gets a fix |
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| 16:12.47 | michelem1 | :) |
| 16:16.27 | michelem1 | 40'' is still too long for ntpd tho |
| 16:16.46 | michelem1 | would ntpdate with the same trick (magic IP) work from GPS? |
| 16:17.10 | michelem1 | I could run that after a minute from boot |
| 16:18.02 | lindi- | michelem1: why are you booting it so often? |
| 16:18.28 | michelem1 | 2-4 times a day |
| 16:18.38 | lindi- | yep but why? |
| 16:18.54 | michelem1 | saves battery and saves me the hassle of tuning and dealing with power management |
| 16:19.22 | michelem1 | lindi-: I get your wondering. It's not used as a phone, just as a portable time tracking machine |
| 16:20.52 | lindi- | michelem1: sure but why not keep it running 24/7? |
| 16:21.02 | michelem1 | saves battery and saves me the hassle of tuning and dealing with power management |
| 16:21.27 | Broam | Well if you can get it on a usb plug, that works, but then it's...not...mobile. |
| 16:21.30 | Broam | :) |
| 16:21.50 | lindi- | michelem1: ntpd that is restarted 4 times a day sounds odd :) |
| 16:21.59 | lindi- | michelem1: if you want accurate time you need to let it stabilize for hours |
| 16:22.22 | michelem1 | I don't need accurate time, just seconds-accurate |
| 16:22.30 | lindi- | michelem1: RTC should provide that? |
| 16:22.35 | michelem1 | the problem is the hw clock of the phone is real bad |
| 16:22.43 | lindi- | michelem1: you can compensate |
| 16:23.08 | michelem1 | lindi-: I've seen it slacks off pretty bad when the phone is off (one minute every few days?) and on one of the phones it just resets |
| 16:23.37 | lindi- | michelem1: yes if you remove the battery it resets |
| 16:25.27 | gena4x | michelem1: freerunner resumes now pretty well |
| 16:25.49 | gena4x | michelem1: and eats 7-10 ma in suspend even with GSM on |
| 16:26.03 | michelem1 | the question is, why? |
| 16:26.05 | gena4x | michelem1: so no reason to power it down |
| 16:26.13 | gena4x | just suspend |
| 16:26.47 | michelem1 | I'll check that out in the future |
| 16:27.10 | michelem1 | low prio now, it don't carry significant value in their use cases |
| 16:27.23 | gena4x | michelem1: second thing, you can replace backup battery with capacitor (have you read that in community-ml?) and it will keep time even if you replacing battery |
| 16:28.35 | michelem1 | gena4x: is that an Built-to-order option at OM? |
| 16:28.52 | gena4x | DIY fix |
| 16:29.08 | michelem1 | ok, so thanks but no thanks :) |
| 16:29.57 | gena4x | but as long as you battery charged and inserted, it should keep you time anyway without problems |
| 16:30.44 | gena4x | if it has systematic drift, it should be corrected by debian's clock scripts |
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| 16:34.00 | nicky0288 | register kaunhain nicky.gurbani@gmail.com |
| 16:34.46 | nicky0288 | ads\ |
| 16:36.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | gena2x: haha, debian's clock scripts, LOL |
| 16:37.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | those scripts are the most common cause of RTC severely skewing during power down |
| 16:40.35 | michelem | btw, I assume in sleep mode whatever scripts/ntp shall not run anyways |
| 16:42.47 | gena2x | DocScrutinizer51: whoose scripts purpose is to correct systematic drift only, so they can't harm more than that. |
| 16:43.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | nope |
| 16:43.38 | gena2x | DocScrutinizer: and somehow i think most drift in rpc in computers is really systematic |
| 16:43.51 | gena2x | s/rpc/rtc/ |
| 16:44.09 | DocScrutinizer51 | they cause a massively wrong drift compensation in /etc/adjtime |
| 16:44.39 | gena2x | adjust and set chattr +i? |
| 16:45.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | as they write back a more often than not incorrect szstime to hwclock, on shutdown |
| 16:45.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | gena2x: better fix the scripts |
| 16:46.13 | gena2x | ok, i never really debug them to great details, just read documentation. |
| 16:47.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | kill the crappy /etc/rcN/K42hwclock |
| 16:47.48 | gena2x | my time is ok on all computers even without ntp |
| 16:48.15 | gena2x | including freerunner |
| 16:48.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | and replace that by a cron job calling netdate&&hwclock --szstohc |
| 16:50.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | the debian scripts are made for always-online servers etc |
| 16:50.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | not for mobile device with random connectivity |
| 16:51.09 | gena2x | i am using it for 10 years on any kind of computers |
| 16:51.36 | gena2x | i think this piece is not changing for a while |
| 16:51.57 | gena2x | ok, may be not really 10, but 8 |
| 16:53.27 | gena2x | and really i do not want to depend on network (or what is netdate?) instead of rtc |
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| 20:03.19 | DocScrutinizer | the point is: if you do a `hwclock --systohc` in shutdown, then you MUST be on network, otherwise odds are your systemclock is more off than the RTC, and this will give an unjustified adjtime punishment to RTC, whic next time you boot makes RTC getting "corrected" to a massively offset time, and when you then adjust it, the adjtime multiplier get calculated based even worse assumptions than last time |
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| 20:03.40 | DocScrutinizer | It's basically even a bit more complex still, but that's the storyline |
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| 20:05.01 | DocScrutinizer | while netdate&&hwclock --systohc, done by a cronjob or caled from ifup, is NOT depending on network actually avalable. It just *tries* if it is, and then adjusts RTC to a *correct* time |
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