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| 00:06.27 | linuxxr | the board Nicolas is working on is going to be a viable solution? |
| 00:06.58 | linuxxr | an what plans to make more? |
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| 01:41.10 | rhaeder | someone know a more up-to-date u-boot ? I have 1.3.2-moko12 |
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| 12:09.13 | leinir | Is there anybody here with rights on bugzilla to stop the bloody spammer making the rounds on there at the moment? |
| 12:09.21 | leinir | sorry, trac |
| 12:10.53 | badcloud | leinir: wish I did, that shit is annoying |
| 12:11.25 | leinir | very |
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| 12:11.59 | Wonka | #openmoko-cdevel is already discussing who to wake |
| 12:12.02 | badcloud | which distro's trac are we talking about |
| 12:12.04 | leinir | right, thanks :) |
| 12:12.05 | badcloud | shr? |
| 12:12.09 | badcloud | oh, nm then |
| 12:15.45 | badcloud | so, is http://www.aavamobile.com/ the unofficial heir of openmoko? |
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| 12:23.37 | mickeyl | hardly |
| 12:23.59 | mickeyl | everyone who puts "first open mobile" on their website in 2010 immediately loses credibilitiy |
| 12:24.08 | mickeyl | 2nd, it's vapourware |
| 12:24.19 | mickeyl | look they even postponed sdk to q1/2011 |
| 12:24.21 | mickeyl | let alone hardware |
| 12:24.29 | mickeyl | 3rd, it's an atom |
| 12:24.31 | mickeyl | *cough* |
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| 12:24.45 | mickeyl | 4th, no UMTS |
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| 12:26.45 | badcloud | mickeyl: very true. my eyebrow almost left my forehead when I saw "1st open mobile" |
| 12:27.15 | badcloud | what's an atom (he asked curiously)? |
| 12:27.36 | gena2x | badcloud: intel's mobile chip. |
| 12:27.37 | mickeyl | atom? wannabe-embedded SoC |
| 12:27.45 | badcloud | ah |
| 12:28.11 | badcloud | but x86, that's gotta pack a huge punch |
| 12:30.06 | badcloud | even though the device looks heavier than a cinder block |
| 12:31.41 | mickeyl | fun thing is... |
| 12:31.57 | mickeyl | intel approach OM years ago to do an atom-based phone |
| 12:32.05 | mickeyl | but they never got there act together with the CPU |
| 12:32.11 | mickeyl | so the project didn't happen |
| 12:32.16 | badcloud | shame |
| 12:32.26 | mickeyl | yeah |
| 12:32.40 | SpeedEvil | StrongARM! |
| 12:32.46 | SpeedEvil | (though they sold that) |
| 12:32.57 | mickeyl | heh |
| 12:32.58 | mickeyl | you see a pattern |
| 12:33.03 | mickeyl | intel aquires arm technology |
| 12:33.08 | mickeyl | sells it for a fortune |
| 12:33.15 | mickeyl | then comes out with something "new" |
| 12:33.16 | mickeyl | tadaaa |
| 12:33.23 | badcloud | haha |
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| 12:33.51 | badcloud | nothing honest/decent left in the marketing biz |
| 12:34.13 | badcloud | "let's make a good, affordable product" |
| 12:34.42 | badcloud | feels like a thing of the past (but I might be overly pessimistic) |
| 12:35.16 | mickeyl | nah, i think that hits it |
| 12:35.35 | mickeyl | if only google would have put more pressure on hardware manufacturers |
| 12:35.40 | mickeyl | then we had a plethora of open devices now |
| 12:35.41 | badcloud | iphone's heating up/exploding, shit cameras on phones |
| 12:35.42 | mickeyl | it's a shame |
| 12:36.12 | badcloud | s/iphone's/iphones |
| 12:36.33 | mickeyl | well |
| 12:36.37 | mickeyl | can't complain much about the iphone |
| 12:36.50 | badcloud | I thought android's debut would raise the bar as far as hw |
| 12:36.50 | mickeyl | now that i'm making a living from it ... |
| 12:37.02 | badcloud | heh, right, I can dig it |
| 12:37.03 | mickeyl | yep |
| 12:37.14 | mickeyl | nexusone is a joke |
| 12:37.17 | mickeyl | our "superphone" |
| 12:37.19 | mickeyl | chuckles |
| 12:37.39 | mickeyl | the newer HTCs are quite decent |
| 12:37.42 | mickeyl | at least those with real buttons |
| 12:38.37 | SpeedEvil | I hope there is a nice open phone in a year or three when I'm looking for one. |
| 12:39.14 | mickeyl | yeah |
| 12:39.19 | mickeyl | lets see whether nokia survives |
| 12:39.26 | badcloud | seconds that |
| 12:39.37 | badcloud | seems like they're in a slump right now |
| 12:39.40 | mickeyl | yep |
| 12:39.48 | SpeedEvil | Well - for modest values of open |
| 12:39.48 | mickeyl | nokia and HP are the two bets now |
| 12:39.55 | mickeyl | SpeedEvil: oh so true |
| 12:40.01 | badcloud | SpeedEvil: agree |
| 12:40.13 | badcloud | as far as sw |
| 12:40.45 | badcloud | has HP dipped into the android market yet? |
| 12:42.09 | mickeyl | well, they're working on the next wave of WebOS devices |
| 12:42.32 | mickeyl | and in contrast to other manufacturers they do try to focus a bit more |
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| 12:45.41 | SpeedEvil | My kindle is interesting. |
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| 12:45.50 | SpeedEvil | I do wish it was more open though. |
| 12:45.57 | SpeedEvil | Another case of hardware limited by software. |
| 12:46.18 | badcloud | hmmm, gui looks decent |
| 12:46.18 | badcloud | what kind of software packaging system will they have (if at all)? |
| 12:46.39 | SpeedEvil | you mean kindle? |
| 12:46.47 | badcloud | no, webos |
| 12:46.48 | SpeedEvil | There is no software other than builtin. |
| 12:46.49 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 12:46.55 | mickeyl | webos has ipkg |
| 12:46.59 | mickeyl | as it's built on |
| 12:47.02 | mickeyl | *drumroll* |
| 12:47.04 | mickeyl | OpenEmbedded |
| 12:47.07 | mickeyl | :D |
| 12:47.32 | badcloud | meh |
| 12:47.51 | mickeyl | now the sad part is they didn't release their recipes :( |
| 12:48.01 | mickeyl | so have fun recreating everything they did from scratch |
| 12:48.17 | mickeyl | NOTE: no idea whether HP changes that. Palm at least did like i said |
| 12:48.22 | gena2x | badcloud: 'shit cameras' -> heh, main property of camera is good lens (together with sensor size). i think it's impossible to place lightweight, small and cheap lens. |
| 12:49.22 | badcloud | gena2x: right. I never was really convinced with cellphones trying to mate with cameras |
| 12:49.35 | badcloud | still doesn't feel right |
| 12:49.47 | badcloud | still one link in the evolutionary chain missing |
| 12:50.00 | SpeedEvil | gena2x: My n900 has a decent camera. But the lens limits the sensor to 2.5MP or so |
| 12:50.09 | SpeedEvil | Simply due to its diameter |
| 12:50.53 | SpeedEvil | http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4687082204/ |
| 12:50.55 | badcloud | the day digital cams get super small is the day they'll start designing better cell phone cams |
| 12:51.17 | SpeedEvil | Designing is not especially hard. |
| 12:51.44 | badcloud | SpeedEvil: nice photo. great detail, but it's not vivid |
| 12:52.10 | badcloud | feels a bit lifeless (and I'm sure it's not your photography skills that are at fault) |
| 12:52.38 | SpeedEvil | It was an off-hand snap. |
| 12:52.46 | SpeedEvil | I'm quite suprised it came out that well |
| 12:52.47 | badcloud | ah |
| 12:52.55 | SpeedEvil | The exposure is screwed |
| 12:53.09 | SpeedEvil | and I think there may be some wierd not enough IR filter going on there too |
| 12:53.40 | SpeedEvil | With the tech in the n900 camera, it would be fairly simple to make a ~20MP camera in a 15mm cube. |
| 12:53.55 | SpeedEvil | It would probably only be 15 'real' megapixels. |
| 12:54.12 | gena2x | SpeedEvil: nice photo. i see almost no noise even in shadows. |
| 12:54.41 | mickeyl | i'm fairly satisfied with the iphone4 cam, if you have enough light, it's ok |
| 12:54.46 | SpeedEvil | But a 15mm cube, and the extra $40 or so it would cost in volume, and the volume and integration constraints... |
| 12:54.49 | mickeyl | naturally i don't use it for real photos |
| 12:56.05 | SpeedEvil | On the open-source thing - there is a camera program for the n900 that actually gives OK fairly low light pictures, with real exposiures up to a second. |
| 12:56.07 | gena2x | badcloud: vivid/not vivid -> this is job of photoshop, the colors seem fine |
| 12:56.28 | SpeedEvil | yeah - it might be white balance too - I haven't really looked at it. |
| 12:56.55 | gena2x | badcloud: anyway sensor never 'shots' phone in the way eye see it |
| 12:57.13 | gena2x | s/phone/image/ |
| 12:57.44 | gena2x | SpeedEvil: _second_??? |
| 12:57.55 | SpeedEvil | gena2x: yes |
| 12:58.34 | gena2x | SpeedEvil: second from hands? i bet it has no 'hardware' compensation. so it is pure software deal. interesting. |
| 12:58.35 | SpeedEvil | gena2x: It's nothing compared to proper cameras, I agree. |
| 12:58.49 | SpeedEvil | no - you have to actually hold it still by some means. |
| 13:00.55 | gena2x | ah, if it is just laid down, where is no diff 1/100 or 1 second or 30. |
| 13:01.13 | gena2x | expect that object must be more static |
| 13:01.37 | *** join/#openmoko badcloud (~badcloud@CBL217-132-151-192.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 13:02.11 | gena2x | i had big problems with finding even much bigger in size usb camera |
| 13:02.31 | gena2x | spent much time and not really happy result. |
| 13:02.36 | gena2x | *with |
| 13:02.46 | SpeedEvil | much bigger size? |
| 13:03.02 | SpeedEvil | yeah - there are no really good webcams that are not insanely priced. |
| 13:03.30 | SpeedEvil | And most basic entry-level cameras that are oodles better than webcams can't be controlled over USB |
| 13:03.32 | gena2x | i mean that it is easy to put bigger lens and sensor to usb cameras (in comparison to handheld devices). |
| 13:04.26 | SpeedEvil | Well - no. |
| 13:04.31 | SpeedEvil | The problem is the sensor size. |
| 13:05.05 | SpeedEvil | If you have a 2mm sensor, you're not putting a 28mm focal length lens from a 'proper' camera on it without getting utterly insane zoom. |
| 13:06.10 | gena2x | i mean obvious things - where is no such strong limit imposed by frame in usb cams, as it is in handhelds. |
| 13:06.32 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - not following what you're trying to say. |
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| 14:15.25 | CVirus | I got an android phone :-( |
| 14:16.09 | badcloud | CVirus: and you're not happy with it? |
| 14:16.21 | CVirus | badcloud: I'm utterly happy with it |
| 14:16.27 | CVirus | but I wish OpenMoko was alive |
| 14:16.52 | lindi- | CVirus: how is it dead? |
| 14:17.29 | badcloud | lindi-: took the words out of my mouth |
| 14:17.45 | CVirus | I haven't been following much lately |
| 14:17.55 | CVirus | but I remember there were no future hardware versions of the device |
| 14:18.07 | CVirus | it is a completely community project now .. right ? |
| 14:18.22 | lindi- | CVirus: what is exactly? |
| 14:18.27 | CVirus | the freerunner |
| 14:19.17 | lindi- | CVirus: I think you can still buy one |
| 14:24.57 | badcloud | lindi-: I'm thinking CVirus, like many users, want newer hw |
| 14:24.58 | badcloud | s/want/wants |
| 14:25.31 | *** join/#openmoko badcloud (~badcloud@CBL217-132-151-192.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 14:25.44 | badcloud | lindi-: I'm thinking CVirus, like many users, wants newer hw |
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| 14:26.00 | badcloud | (might be late for the conversation since my connection keeps dying) |
| 14:26.04 | CVirus | I'm like many users who blames himself for not contributing to such an amazing project like OpenMoko |
| 14:26.34 | badcloud | CVirus: have you ever owned a fr/1973? |
| 14:27.14 | CVirus | nope |
| 14:27.44 | badcloud | oh |
| 14:39.28 | *** join/#openmoko badcloud (~badcloud@CBL217-132-151-192.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 14:50.02 | gena2x | CVirus: hey, recently freerunner got huge progress in terms of speed and stability. It became obvious (for me at least) that main problem of freerunner is not old hw, but bugs in sw. |
| 14:55.46 | Defiant | its still old hw als slow cpu etc |
| 15:07.47 | badcloud | i feel you guys are both right |
| 15:07.47 | badcloud | which sucks even more |
| 15:19.13 | gena2x | Defiant: heh, while researching hw ECC, i found this: http://www.friendlyarm.net/products/mini2440 |
| 15:19.42 | gena2x | Defiant: somehow this reminds me openmoko board, which seem FAR more advanced than device linked |
| 15:20.44 | gena2x | and somehow that device is still sold and bought and where is _active_ community of hackers around it |
| 15:21.14 | *** join/#openmoko badcloud (~badcloud@CBL217-132-151-192.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 15:21.16 | SpeedEvil | es - similar hardware |
| 15:21.20 | gena2x | they even ported uboot to it, hacket it from beginning to end |
| 15:21.29 | gena2x | and feel good. |
| 15:21.39 | SpeedEvil | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SamSung-S3C2440-ARM9-Mini2440-Board-3-5-TFT-LCD-128MB-/230509968366?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35ab76fbee |
| 15:21.40 | SpeedEvil | also |
| 15:21.49 | Defiant | gena2x: In the company I currently program an arm7 @60Mhz, but it does not run a flow blown operation system with lots of apps like the freerunner |
| 15:22.34 | gena2x | and from what i see in recent distros the hw is not really slow |
| 15:22.53 | gena2x | really, no problems with slowness at all in qtmoko v28 for example |
| 15:23.12 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 15:23.15 | SpeedEvil | It's depressing. |
| 15:23.20 | SpeedEvil | Though awesome. |
| 15:23.23 | gena2x | Defiant: 400mhz is more than enought to run full-blown off. |
| 15:23.28 | gena2x | s/off/os/ |
| 15:23.52 | SpeedEvil | Think for a moment back when you had a (new) 200MHz desktop. |
| 15:23.55 | SpeedEvil | Was it slow? |
| 15:24.11 | SpeedEvil | And it probably had a screen of similar dimensions. |
| 15:24.58 | Defiant | Yes, it was slow |
| 15:24.59 | gena2x | also, after going a bit depper into development, i realise about power consumption that actually, it is _fixable_ in freerunner. and most of power consumption is NOT related to CPU |
| 15:25.25 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 15:25.27 | gena2x | actually suspend time consits of suspend times of all other _hardware_ not cpu. |
| 15:26.00 | gena2x | so better power management will provide much better power consumption situation |
| 15:26.09 | SpeedEvil | wishes he had a milion or two to do a nice open phone. |
| 15:27.15 | gena2x | so omap or s3c2440... yes, it is faster, but it should not be disaster. |
| 15:28.01 | gena2x | and yes, 400mhz should be more that enough to manage 640x480x16. |
| 15:29.03 | gena2x | if you install L2 cache of 8M to FR for example. it will lightning fast device. |
| 15:29.42 | SpeedEvil | That would be really, really cunning. :) |
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| 17:38.46 | DelphiWorld | suvir: you also here? hehehe |
| 17:51.38 | DelphiWorld | slaps suvir around a bit with a large trout |
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| 18:28.35 | listonosz | hello |
| 18:28.49 | listonosz | guys can y tell me how to copy file on openmoko |
| 18:28.58 | lindi- | listonosz: openmoko distro? |
| 18:29.07 | listonosz | QtMoko |
| 18:29.18 | listonosz | I am login throw ssh |
| 18:29.32 | lindi- | listonosz: new to gnu/linux? |
| 18:29.40 | listonosz | ye |
| 18:29.43 | listonosz | command cp? |
| 18:29.47 | gena2x | listonosz: scp |
| 18:30.00 | listonosz | some example? |
| 18:30.19 | gena2x | listonosz: i just don't know where to put pictures in qtmoko |
| 18:30.32 | listonosz | mmm |
| 18:30.37 | listonosz | in home/root/ |
| 18:30.38 | listonosz | ? |
| 18:31.00 | gena2x | lindi-: but in general, you can do at host scp <local_file> root@192.168.0.220:/<path_on_qtmoko> |
| 18:31.13 | gena2x | listonosz: ^^^ |
| 18:31.18 | gena2x | lindi-: sorry :) |
| 18:31.25 | lindi- | copying pictures as root? aiee... |
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| 18:31.41 | PBeck | hi |
| 18:31.42 | gena2x | root on device! |
| 18:32.03 | gena2x | listonosz: where is 1000 ways to copy file to device |
| 18:32.12 | gena2x | listonosz: i prefer to use mc |
| 18:32.40 | gena2x | listonosz: you may use sshfs, some graphical stuff. you may install even ftp server to qtmoko |
| 18:32.52 | listonosz | my mc cann't see qtmoko |
| 18:33.03 | listonosz | and mc on qtmoko cann't see my pc |
| 18:33.03 | listonosz | :S |
| 18:33.29 | gena2x | listonosz: but you can ssh without problems? |
| 18:35.03 | gena2x | listonosz: also do apt-get install openssh-client on your qtmoko |
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| 18:40.28 | listonosz | couldn't get local adress |
| 18:43.00 | listonosz | got it |
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| 19:08.21 | listonosz | http://devi.openmoko.org/wiki/File_transfer |
| 19:10.24 | listonosz | what should I do with makefile |
| 19:10.54 | PaulFertser | rm it |
| 19:11.48 | listonosz | mm? |
| 19:13.36 | listonosz | ./Makefile 'make moko' |
| 19:13.41 | listonosz | ? |
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| 19:23.38 | listonosz | omg why scp and sshfs not working |
| 19:26.58 | gena2x | lindi-: did you installed openssh-client in qtmoko? |
| 19:27.12 | gena2x | lindi-: !!! sorry again listonosz ^^^ |
| 19:27.23 | listonosz | ye |
| 19:27.39 | gena2x | what is error message? |
| 19:27.43 | gena2x | and command line? |
| 19:28.41 | gena2x | lindi-: i have to patch xchat to add dialog 'are you really sure to send this message'? :) |
| 19:28.58 | listonosz | ye but wich command scp? |
| 19:29.31 | listonosz | it cann't find local file |
| 19:31.00 | gena2x | can you ssh to your qtmoko and check 'which scp' |
| 19:31.53 | listonosz | /usr/bin/scp |
| 19:33.34 | gena2x | hm... so, where is your local file? |
| 19:34.11 | gena2x | has no ideas, it should work! |
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| 19:37.21 | listonosz | ssh: connect to host 192.168.0.220 port 22: No route to host |
| 19:37.21 | listonosz | lost connection |
| 19:37.48 | listonosz | scp /home/daniel/Pulpit/Save.BMP root@192.168.0.220:/home/ |
| 19:45.34 | gena2x | listonosz: and how do you ssh? |
| 19:46.03 | listonosz | neo:~# |
| 19:46.15 | listonosz | ssh root@192.168.0.202 |
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| 19:46.35 | gena2x | so, replace 220 with 202 |
| 19:46.44 | gena2x | in your scp string |
| 19:47.04 | gena2x | i am using 192.168.1.5 so, i can't recall address... |
| 19:48.32 | listonosz | working |
| 19:48.33 | listonosz | : D |
| 19:48.43 | listonosz | and how configure |
| 19:48.45 | listonosz | this |
| 19:48.57 | gena2x | like in mainstream debian |
| 19:49.15 | listonosz | http://devi.openmoko.org/wiki/File_transfer |
| 19:49.18 | listonosz | SSHFS |
| 19:49.22 | listonosz | I want to mount dir |
| 19:49.31 | gena2x | like in mainstream debian |
| 19:49.48 | listonosz | I got here some Makefile |
| 19:50.16 | gena2x | on host mkdir D; sshfs root@192.168.0.202:/<dir> D |
| 19:50.41 | gena2x | do not forget to aptgetinstall sshfs itself |
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| 19:53.16 | listonosz | is it properly? root@192.168.0.202:/home/daniel/Pulpit/D/: No such file or directory |
| 19:53.41 | listonosz | I am trying mount device to D |
| 19:53.51 | gena2x | no |
| 19:53.57 | listonosz | :S |
| 19:54.00 | gena2x | read careful. sshfs -h |
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| 19:58.04 | listonosz | ye I see |
| 19:58.12 | listonosz | and how to unmount? |
| 19:58.41 | listonosz | umout D |
| 19:58.41 | listonosz | xD |
| 19:59.07 | listonosz | ye |
| 19:59.07 | listonosz | xD |
| 19:59.09 | listonosz | thnks man |
| 19:59.14 | listonosz | it is very usefull |
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| 20:06.27 | listonosz | mmm |
| 20:09.24 | listonosz | I got program Media Player but I am not sure |
| 20:09.28 | listonosz | where he read music |
| 20:10.07 | listonosz | th same pictures |
| 20:11.07 | gena2x | listonosz: don't know. should be some dir on FR's filesystem. may be some 'rescan' will be needed |
| 20:11.20 | listonosz | ye |
| 20:11.21 | listonosz | I got it |
| 20:11.30 | listonosz | but I wanna change for example |
| 20:11.34 | listonosz | appearance |
| 20:11.42 | listonosz | and background |
| 20:16.22 | listonosz | ..homscreen |
| 20:17.58 | gena2x | listonosz: i never tried to do it. share if you find how to do it. |
| 20:18.08 | listonosz | mmm |
| 20:18.15 | listonosz | nothing about catalog in help |
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| 20:28.51 | listonosz | can y advice me if I want to find background file in D it will be |
| 20:29.06 | listonosz | find <dir> -name *ground |
| 20:29.08 | listonosz | ? |
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| 20:30.13 | gena2x | listonosz: i have no even small idea how to change background. probably, this belongs to theme, so you you should try to search for it in rootfs |
| 20:30.32 | gena2x | listonosz: we have 2 themes in qtmoko (change in settings/appearance) |
| 20:30.44 | gena2x | listonosz: you may try to search my theme name. |
| 20:31.23 | listonosz | ye but wich command to search |
| 20:31.30 | listonosz | I am trying to do this |
| 20:35.42 | gena2x | find /|grep -i fixni (or how it is named, look in appearance) |
| 20:39.04 | listonosz | not find /home/daniel/Pulpit/D/ -name fixni? |
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| 20:59.06 | gena2x | listonosz: as i told, i am unsure if changing background is possible at all via /home. and 2) do all searches on device, not via ssh |
| 21:05.15 | listonosz | mmm |
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| 21:06.36 | listonosz | bat firmware |
| 21:06.37 | listonosz | :S |
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| 21:11.11 | listonosz | as a music only QMPlayer can find music |
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| 21:22.25 | listonosz | that's strange qtmoko haven't any documentation |
| 21:27.08 | listonosz | http://manual.mantisbt.org/ |
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| 22:07.09 | listonosz | I find the way |
| 22:07.18 | listonosz | y should to go document viewer |
| 22:07.20 | listonosz | and choice there |
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| 22:41.11 | listonosz | ey, what codec for mp3 I need? |
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