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| 08:42.29 | oliver__ | good morning |
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| 14:11.54 | spydon | Hmm, how do I open a terminal on a fresh debian install? |
| 14:12.05 | spydon | I forgot which password I set |
| 14:13.28 | lindi- | spydon: which window manager are you using? |
| 14:14.35 | spydon | I don't know acctually... |
| 14:14.42 | spydon | It has a slim bar at the top |
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| 14:17.15 | lindi- | spydon: http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-fso/files.git;a=blob_plain;f=install.sh;hb=HEAD seems to install matchbox-window-manager |
| 14:17.28 | lindi- | spydon: the bar at bottom is maybe this "openmoko-panel-plugin"? |
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| 14:18.28 | spydon | Yeah, it's probably matchbox |
| 14:19.16 | lindi- | spydon: I recommend you read install.sh |
| 14:19.29 | lindi- | spydon: there's handleauxshortexternalcommand = exec /usr/bin/matchbox-keyboard |
| 14:20.28 | spydon | Yeah, but how do I open a terminal with the keyboard? Ctrl+alt+t or something? |
| 14:21.41 | lindi- | spydon: ctrl-alt-x? |
| 14:21.53 | spydon | worked, thx :) |
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| 15:34.10 | xqo | how is android? |
| 15:34.37 | xqo | im looking to buy a new phone, deciding between the N900 and the HTC Desire |
| 15:35.10 | xqo | but i think you guys said android wasnt really that nice last time i asked, so i dont know if the desire should really be considered or not |
| 15:37.52 | SpeedEvil | Speaking personally, my only regret about my n900 is that they only put one stylus in the box |
| 15:38.00 | SpeedEvil | But that's not a huge limit. :) |
| 15:38.42 | SpeedEvil | The stack is comparatively open, though it has various issues, and the hardware is as documented as FR - pretty much - due to a leaked schematic. |
| 15:38.47 | SpeedEvil | Almost as. |
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| 15:43.52 | xqo | would you recommend it? |
| 15:43.57 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 15:44.03 | SpeedEvil | Absolutely. |
| 15:44.21 | SpeedEvil | For example - apt-get install build-essentials 'just works'. |
| 15:44.26 | SpeedEvil | (if you setup the right repo) |
| 15:44.37 | xqo | i read that gsm is kind of clunky, since you have to open the calling-app or whatever before you can call and stuff. no complaints? |
| 15:46.20 | SpeedEvil | What do you mean by that? |
| 15:46.32 | SpeedEvil | i have to say I've used it for maybe 5 calls. |
| 15:46.42 | xqo | oh, you dont use it as a phone? |
| 15:46.44 | SpeedEvil | I can't really speak much to that aspect of it. |
| 15:47.00 | xqo | i need something to make calls with |
| 15:47.24 | SpeedEvil | there is no hardware 'phone' key. |
| 15:48.34 | SpeedEvil | If you're in an app, for example, you can install the camkeyd software - then simply press the key to go to the app-switcher. click out of that to the desktop. |
| 15:48.43 | SpeedEvil | then start typing the name of your contact |
| 15:48.56 | SpeedEvil | and then just click to call/sms/sip it |
| 15:49.08 | SpeedEvil | or you can setup icons on your desktop to click for contacts. |
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| 15:49.51 | SpeedEvil | There are a number of ways to set it up. |
| 15:50.05 | xqo | would you still recommend it for me though? I want an open phone, particularily because i want python. But it is still going to be used as a phone |
| 15:50.40 | SpeedEvil | I have found it easy to use as a phone. |
| 15:50.51 | SpeedEvil | I'd recommend asking on #maemo for people who may have used it more. |
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| 15:51.05 | xqo | oh ye about that |
| 15:51.13 | xqo | i read that you can use Meego on the n900 if you want to |
| 15:51.29 | xqo | something to consider or |
| 15:52.14 | xqo | meego will take over for maemo wont it, so you should be able to get the new versions when they are out for the n900 and it will all work out just great? |
| 15:52.55 | SpeedEvil | Nokia seem to not announce beforehand. |
| 15:53.15 | SpeedEvil | It's looking like there will be meego for the n900, but it will not be 'official' on the part of nokia. |
| 15:53.31 | SpeedEvil | The n900 is one of the reference platforms for meego though |
| 15:54.05 | xqo | ok |
| 15:54.11 | xqo | isnt the n900 kind of old? |
| 15:55.59 | xqo | how long will it last and stuff? it is still pretty expensive for a year old phone |
| 15:56.38 | SpeedEvil | I've had no reliabiltiy issues. |
| 15:56.42 | SpeedEvil | And yes. |
| 15:56.50 | SpeedEvil | It hasn't come down in price much. |
| 15:58.04 | xqo | but you still think it is my best bet? are there any alternatives? |
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| 16:05.31 | SpeedEvil | Speaking personally, yes. |
| 16:05.42 | SpeedEvil | I haven't seen anything comparatively as open |
| 16:08.35 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: except freerunner? |
| 16:13.19 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 16:13.22 | SpeedEvil | Recently |
| 16:13.42 | xqo | Its more finished right? |
| 16:13.48 | xqo | maemo |
| 16:14.15 | SpeedEvil | Yes. It works with relatively few niggles for most. |
| 16:14.16 | xqo | I dont want to struggle as much as i do with the freerunner, i want a finished phone with the openness of the freerunner |
| 16:14.24 | lindi- | xqo: more finished than what? |
| 16:14.29 | SpeedEvil | It is - for me - pretty much that. |
| 16:15.05 | xqo | any distro, lindi-. bugs, slugginess and all that |
| 16:16.17 | SpeedEvil | There are bugs. However - it's actually stable in my general experience, and the bugs are often user-fixable or workaroundable. |
| 16:16.42 | lindi- | xqo: so use maemo on freerunner? ;) |
| 16:17.00 | SpeedEvil | no. maemo has binary components from nokia too. |
| 16:17.37 | lindi- | xqo: ok so if you want free stuff you don't want maemo |
| 16:17.54 | lindi- | (of course it's not that black and white but) |
| 16:18.37 | SpeedEvil | It depends. |
| 16:18.50 | SpeedEvil | If you're developing applications in python/C/C++/perl/... |
| 16:18.56 | SpeedEvil | then it's just fine generally. |
| 16:19.13 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: but it contains non-free software |
| 16:19.18 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 16:19.25 | SpeedEvil | So do all phones if you go far enough. |
| 16:20.14 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: possibly but that is no reason to increase the number of non-free software if it already can be done without it |
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| 16:20.45 | SpeedEvil | Sure. |
| 16:20.50 | SpeedEvil | http://bb.osmocom.org/trac/ |
| 16:20.55 | SpeedEvil | If you want to go that far. |
| 16:20.58 | SpeedEvil | But ... :) |
| 16:21.22 | SpeedEvil | And we don't get what we want. |
| 16:21.29 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: that's not legal yet |
| 16:21.43 | SpeedEvil | There is the choice of android, iphone, or random linux based stuff, or maemo. |
| 16:22.10 | SpeedEvil | All of the others are 'more closed' to normal development than maemo. |
| 16:22.22 | lindi- | hard to say |
| 16:23.12 | SpeedEvil | You can't port 'normal' GTK/X apps to the others pretty much at all. |
| 16:23.20 | SpeedEvil | without rewriting. |
| 16:23.47 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: I'm hoping I could just buy some "android" phone and run my own software on it |
| 16:24.38 | SpeedEvil | I'm not saying that's bad. |
| 16:24.48 | SpeedEvil | just that it's very not 'normal' linux. |
| 16:25.28 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: maybe we see this bit differently indeed. I'm buying hardware, not the software stack :) |
| 16:25.34 | SpeedEvil | Well... |
| 16:25.37 | SpeedEvil | It depends. |
| 16:25.56 | SpeedEvil | http://xkcd.com/644/ |
| 16:26.00 | lindi- | but of course having linux support for the hardware makes it a lot better for me |
| 16:26.18 | lindi- | heh :) |
| 16:27.12 | SpeedEvil | Yes, it's nice having in some aspects starting 'clean slate' - but it's a hell of a lot of work. |
| 16:27.24 | SpeedEvil | And sometimes having 'good enough' infrastructure is fine. |
| 16:28.02 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: maybe |
| 16:28.34 | lindi- | so many of these custom distros have born and died recently that I'm really sceptical :) |
| 16:29.01 | SpeedEvil | Exactly. |
| 16:29.18 | lindi- | I'm not sure if I want to invest time in learning some distro that is used by only one manufacturer |
| 16:29.34 | SpeedEvil | meego is at least intel and nokia |
| 16:29.40 | SpeedEvil | And there are some others. |
| 16:29.50 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: yes but it is very new |
| 16:30.00 | SpeedEvil | Sure. |
| 16:32.22 | gena2x | hm... should be not really hard to check... |
| 16:32.42 | gena2x | whoops |
| 16:32.53 | gena2x | wrong channel |
| 16:36.07 | SpeedEvil | and of course, there is the goodness in having a platform with maybe half a million (?) deployed units out there. |
| 16:36.19 | SpeedEvil | There is a much, much larger dev community out there. |
| 16:36.45 | SpeedEvil | Meaning even if nokia entirely drop support - it will be at least somewhat supported by community. |
| 16:36.58 | SpeedEvil | There are ongoing efforts to openup the closed parts. |
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| 16:44.53 | xqo | hey SpeedEvil, how is the app-selection? |
| 16:45.52 | SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/ |
| 16:46.27 | SpeedEvil | I currently have xchat, fbreader as my most used apps |
| 16:58.44 | xqo | wow nice |
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| 17:00.28 | xqo | and also anything from the debian-repository or? |
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| 17:31.01 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: sounds promising: The "Debian Meego Maintainers <pkg-meego-maintainers@l.a.d.o>" intend to package almost everything that comes out of MeeGo (see http://meego.gitorious.org ). |
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| 18:05.41 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
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