IRC log for #openmoko on 20090826

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04:39.29Slaxxerthat easytouch keyboard would be nice if it had bigger fonts to go with those big buttons
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04:42.59Undrwateri dun like it
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04:43.08Undrwaterbuttons at the edge are hard to hit
04:58.56Slaxxeras bad as the terminal one?
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04:59.50Slaxxerinstalling hackable 1  todays image
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05:05.27Undrwatera tad better than that one...maybe
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05:40.15PaulFertserUndrwater: Either before or after, it doesn't matter. The idea is that after unbinding (and that what frameworkd does after fsoraw releases the WiFi resource) sometimes eth0 is left errorneously but the device is not there anymore. rmmoding does the job of cleaning up.
05:40.55PaulFertserBTW, guys, for many puproses at home BT networking would be "ok" too, why apparently nobody does that?
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05:47.07lindi-PaulFertser: because bluez4 broken my scripts and i'm too busy to rewrite them
05:48.37PaulFertserlindi-: have you seen the bluez4-specific instructions already? They're quite easy to follow, i hope.
05:48.54lindi-PaulFertser: your instructions or somebody else's?
05:49.00PaulFertserlindi-: my
05:49.31lindi-PaulFertser: do they involve fso?
05:49.54PaulFertserlindi-: no, not at all.
05:50.13PaulFertserlindi-: in fact BT networking is easier with bluez4 comparing to bluez3
05:50.57lindi-PaulFertser: that's a subjective opinion :)
05:51.25PaulFertserlindi-: how is that? Can you please elaborate?
05:52.06PaulFertserlindi-: i mean i know that any opinion is subjective by definition :D But can you hilight some differences that make bluez3 easier?
05:52.13lindi-PaulFertser: well having to use git to get some "simple-agent" from source code tree is not what normal people expect
05:52.43PaulFertserlindi-: i provided a direct http link, wget is capable of using that
05:53.07lindi-PaulFertser: you did yes but i'm speaking generally about bluez4
05:53.51PaulFertserlindi-: also bluez4 has plenty of other agents, simple-agent is for those who needs command line interface, i see no problem with downloading it from the repository. Also it's about packaging, i can't see a reason why e.g. Debian packagers do not include it.
05:54.55lindi-PaulFertser: also there's this panu.py -- is it only in wiki?
05:55.53PaulFertserlindi-: yep, i had to write it myself... Basically, not releasing the bus is the only thing i miss in "bash dbus bindings" (read dbus-send). I'm not sure it's bluez4 fault, looks more like dbus folks didn't care to provide a tool.
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05:56.37lindi-PaulFertser: i'm not blaming anybody, i'm just saying that current state of bluez4 is that you can't tell somebody who to set it up without having connection to internet
05:56.42PaulFertserlindi-: i think somebody can make a patch to dbus-send to support a command line switch to stay on bus until killed, so that'd solve the problem altogether.
05:56.44lindi-s/who/how/
05:57.28PaulFertserlindi-: documentation sucks, i agree. But strictly speaking additional scripts are not necessary.
05:57.32lindi-PaulFertser: with bluez3 i did, iki.fi/lindi/bluetooth.txt and I am actually able to memorize that. I don't memorize the dbus stuff
05:58.01lindi-the command lines are so long that they don't even fit to screen, not something a user should be typing
05:58.19PaulFertserlindi-: there's introspection for a reason. With that in mind i can reproduce the instructions any time without looking at the wikipage.
05:58.44lindi-PaulFertser: I can't remember that by heart either :)
05:58.45PaulFertserlindi-: you type it once and save whereever you like, not much of a problem in my experience.
05:59.15PaulFertserlindi-: org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable.Introspect , come on, it's obvious ;)
05:59.17lindi-PaulFertser: well i was abroad and wanted to setup bluetooth network between my laptop and a laptop of a friend
05:59.25lindi-PaulFertser: we had no internet access but only debian archive
05:59.42lindi-and we could not do it even after spending two hours
06:00.09lindi-PaulFertser: very few admins know that and almost no user knows it
06:00.24lindi-users are used to 'man foo' to get help
06:00.30lindi-(speaking of experienced users here)
06:02.34lindi-PaulFertser: basically all these dbus interfaces are nice but a user-interface is needed
06:04.00CIA-52openmoko: 03werner * r5539 10/developers/werner/gta02-core/ge864/ (10 files): GE864 evaluation board. (In progress)
06:05.07lindi-PaulFertser: maybe bluez4 folks could  include your panu.py and simple-agent in the list of installed binaries?
06:05.32lindi-PaulFertser: and if those would have manual pages this would be great
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06:05.47PaulFertserlindi-: yes, i confirm, it took me many hours to setup networking with bluez4 and i did that only after receiving a hint from bluez developer ;)
06:06.20lindi-PaulFertser: bluez4 developers are hard to find without internet connection :)
06:06.42PaulFertserlindi-: yes, full ack. I mean once you know how to use bluez4 networking, you can get it going.
06:07.06PaulFertserlindi-: btw, don't debian archives include "blueman" GUI configuration utility?
06:08.29lindi-PaulFertser: did I mention that my friend had great disrespect running X apps? :-)
06:08.34lindi-+to
06:09.48lindi-but yes, i don't think we knew about blueman
06:09.55PaulFertserlindi-: well, you had bluez sources after all ;) but i confirm i didn't manage to understand that the connection drops once the client calling Connect() disappears from the bus. BTW, i've sent a patch to alter documentation, it's in the repo already.
06:10.09lindi-PaulFertser: thanks
06:10.29lindi-PaulFertser: now just write simple command line tools to do what you describe in wiki and write man pages :P
06:11.36PaulFertserlindi-: i guess it'd be nice to have some (probably even python) toolset for basic bluetooth activities. Unfortunately, bluez developers are busy with other stuff and i'm not interested enough anyway since for me using dbus-send is ok.
06:12.24lindi-PaulFertser: ok, i'll put this to my endless todo list (very low probability that i'll do anything about it...)
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06:13.57PaulFertserlindi-: but are you sure that's needed? Using bluetooth from command line is more and more rare nowadays and for those rare occasions one can use dbus-send mostly. And if you're "really embedded" and lack python and need some agent you can easily write it yourself in C...
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06:20.16lindi-PaulFertser: i need my manual pages :)
06:20.40lindi-PaulFertser: I want to configure networking without X
06:20.43PaulFertserlindi-: doesn't Debian ship doc/*api* from the sources?
06:20.52lindi-PaulFertser: that's not user documentation :)
06:20.57lindi-it's api documentation for developers
06:21.06lindi-think linux netlink socket API docs vs. "man ifconfig"
06:21.28lindi-they are both docs but the audience is different
06:21.29PaulFertserlindi-: i tested it myself, it's in fact user documentation, user-accessible with standard dbus-send utility.
06:22.13PaulFertserlindi-: those users who can't use dbus send should stick to blueman or other gui tools.
06:23.20lindi-PaulFertser: do those gui tools have manual pages?
06:23.21PaulFertserlindi-: in fact bluez4 API is _very_ high level. Really. It corresponds almost one-to-one to gui checkboxes etc.
06:23.59PaulFertserlindi-: no idea, i don't need blueman myself. I guess it has some rudimentary man page and other stuff is self-describing and obvious as GUI writers like to pretend.
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06:25.15lindi-PaulFertser: yes the API can be perfect. I'm just arguing that just like there is a GUI for using it there should be a non-graphical UI for it
06:25.40lindi-PaulFertser: and the non-graphical UI should not be more complex to use just because it uses no graphics
06:25.53PaulFertserlindi-: and there's dbus-send, it's simple to use, no?
06:26.27lindi-PaulFertser: it's like a general purpose tool for making ioctl's, it can be used for anything :)
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06:27.02PaulFertserlindi-: to me it seems it's ok if the API is high-level enough. I can't see why a dedicated tool should be used.
06:27.10lindi-PaulFertser: why use blueman when you can use d-feet? ;)
06:27.53lindi-PaulFertser: i'm not talking about changing the API, just providing a UI (a binary with manual page) for calling that API
06:28.11lindi-API is for progammers, UI is for users :)
06:30.10PaulFertserlindi-: you know some people claim that wodim's command line interface is for developers and that "users" needs front-ends for that.
06:32.19lindi-PaulFertser: well user/developer boundary is not strict
06:33.00PaulFertserlindi-: you got the hint ;)
06:34.07lindi-but now off to parse some XML...
06:39.38tomcatekanyone have any idea how to clean root filesystem? I'm running out of space, and uninstalling unused stuff didn't free lots of it :/
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06:53.59quatroxtomcatek: did you also uninstall unused dependencies (for the apps you uninstalled)?
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06:56.28tomcatekquatrox: -autoremove
06:56.56tomcatekquatrox: done that :/
07:00.34quatroxtomcatek: the only thing I can think of is if your log files are permanent (not in RAM)
07:01.52tomcatekquatrox: good idea. let me check
07:02.40tomcatekquatrox: /var/log is using only 76K
07:05.30quatroxtomcatek: hmmm... maybe you still got packages installed that could be removed ( opkg list_installed|less )
07:05.51tomcatekquatrox: I'm doing that right now
07:15.56PaulFertsertomcatek: also you can try to do "du -s * | sort -rn | less" to see where the space goes.
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07:24.54PaulFertserDoes anyone know how useable Navit is? Is it compareable with tomtom or some other commercial shit already?
07:25.13ndnihilnot even close
07:25.28ndnihilI got the gf a tomtom last christmas
07:25.47ndnihiland navit it not even close
07:25.57ndnihilthe routing engine is effectively useless
07:26.13tomcatekPaulFertser: it is very usable. but it still depends on maps You are going to use. OpenStreetMaps have some issues, but I'm using it with very goot efect
07:26.19PaulFertserndnihil: are you sure you tried the latest version of navit?
07:26.21pabs3ndnihil: is that the quality of the data, or the routing engine?
07:26.34ndnihillatest svn as far as I know
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07:27.07ndnihilpabs: I never got to check the quality of the data because simply trying to enter an address to route to is broken
07:27.17PaulFertsertomcatek: does some speach reporting work? If e.g. i put my FR in my backpack and cycle somewhere will i get decent hints on where and when to turn? Also is it fast enough if i use it in a car?
07:27.46ndnihilI can route to a town/city
07:27.47PaulFertserndnihil: is it genarally broken or only for non-latin names?
07:27.54ndnihilbut it doesnt take specific addresses
07:28.05ndnihilseems generally broken for me
07:28.32tomcatekPaulFertser: speech works OK. I used it in a car, and it wos good enough for me.
07:28.35ndnihilit will ask the country, then the town, then doesnt want to accept any input
07:29.00tomcatekndnihil: try using "internal" interface. it's much more comfortable
07:29.09ndnihilI think I am
07:29.15ndnihillet me double check
07:29.42tomcatekndnihil: in "internal" you don't have to input country
07:29.52PaulFertsertomcatek: any idea if non-latin street names work?
07:29.54ndnihil<gui type="internal" font_size="350" fullscreen="0"/>
07:30.54tomcatekPaulFertser: I'm using espeak for a voice. You can try what can it say
07:31.15ndnihilyou have to disable speech-dispatcher for espeak to work
07:31.34PaulFertsertomcatek: i mean can you successfully enter non-latin street names as a route destination?
07:32.05tomcatekspeech-dispatcher is deprecated. it tries to use OSS, so it have no effect (at least for me)
07:33.36tomcatekPaulFertser: if You mean "language specific letters" (at least for polish ones) navit takes the closest one, eg for "e+ogonek" it takes "e"
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07:34.16PaulFertsertomcatek: i think i'll be forced to use cyrillic, unfortunately all streets here are named only that way.
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07:35.47DocScrutinizer~botsnack
07:35.47apt:), DocScrutinizer
07:35.57DocScrutinizerapt: good bot
07:35.57apt:), DocScrutinizer
07:36.06tomcatekPaulFertser: install navit and see how is it done. navit is translated into lots of languages, so it may have Your also supported
07:36.28DocScrutinizer~seen bzzbot
07:36.30aptbzzbot <n=mwester@209-242-7-177.rev.dls.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #nslu2-linux, 37d 4h 42m 41s ago, saying: 'eno meant: &d sounds like a good package to be included in optware'.
07:36.55PaulFertsertomcatek: i don't care about translation obviously, but thanks for the hint and for sharing your experience...
07:37.49tomcatekPaulFertser: if You will have any problems, I can share my config file also :)
07:37.56CosmicDuckHi, I want to show pictures on my OM2009. But the packages neon and omview could not been found as described in the wiki. The opkg list gives me Exhibit, but it crash if I try to open an jpeg.
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07:38.31PaulFertserCosmicDuck: you can try to install the one from SHR repos. Or just use SHR...
07:40.35CosmicDuckIs shr more stable than om2009?
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07:42.54tomcatekCosmicDuck: i use neo + SHR as a daily phone
07:43.00tomcatekCosmicDuck: and it works well
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07:47.00DocScrutinizerCosmicDuck: even as SHR is short on manpower for maintenance & development, I think it's yet much better supported than OM2009
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07:49.00CosmicDuckOk, whats with the wifi, gprs, bt and gps support on shr? Is it working? At the moment I use my neo mainly for gps tracking with online internet connection.
07:50.20pabs3gps works fine as long as FSO/dbus stuff is working
07:51.01DocScrutinizergprs works like a charm (well mostly)
07:51.15DocScrutinizerbt you best ask PaulFertser
07:51.24DocScrutinizerwifi same
07:51.42PaulFertserCosmicDuck: there's no difference wrt bt, wifi and gps between SHR and OM2009.
07:52.49CosmicDuckI will check it by installing on my sim, later.
07:53.20CosmicDuckAny idea why jpgs could not been viewed on om2009? Looks like midori has the same problem.
07:55.00CosmicDuckanybody knows in which ipk ld  is found`
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08:00.08DocScrutinizeryou'll do a real amazing job if you manage to install it to your sim
08:01.07tomcatekhehe
08:01.51DaramarakHi everybody. I hope someone can help me. I have om2009 testing 5 and installed the 16 August unstable kernel. This was to fix an issue that my Windows (at work) computer wouldn't recognize it. Now my Windows doesn't even recognize it as an rndis device, and I have no sound on my phone. I am lost, and my GF is dissing my phone, and my IPhone wielding coworkers is smirking :D Please advice.
08:02.34CosmicDuckHmmm... I have a second neo which I can test it, but it is not really ok (my horse has to wants the neo as a boot for her hoof ;-(
08:04.04CosmicDuckIt is not destroyed, but sometimes the graphics hangs up witch scratched images on the screen.
08:04.37PaulFertserDaramarak: tell them to fuck off?
08:05.14PaulFertserDaramarak: in fact your problem most probably is because you haven't untarred the corresponding kernel modules.
08:05.41DocScrutinizerCosmicDuck: heh, that's a really interesting story
08:06.16DaramarakPaulFertser: I was hoping you were on.
08:06.35DocScrutinizerDaramarak: use SHR!
08:06.51DocScrutinizerCosmicDuck: install on uSD then?
08:06.55DaramarakPaulFertser: Give me a SHR image with paroli on, and I am in :)
08:07.25CosmicDuckOn my old neo? No. Will install at directly to the phone (nand?)
08:07.46PaulFertserDaramarak: hm, i think recent paroli were put back in the feeds several days before. Not sure if anyone tried running that.
08:07.59PaulFertserDaramarak: anyway to solve your problems you need only kernel modules.
08:07.59DocScrutinizerCosmicDuck: on the new one
08:08.04CosmicDuckIf it is working well with the fesatures I have on OM2009 than will do this on my new one too.
08:08.33CosmicDuckIf it is too hard to install it in my µSD
08:08.52CosmicDuckbut not today.
08:09.06DocScrutinizerconsidering to actually test a "opkg install paroli" on his SHR
08:09.10DaramarakPaulFertser: I am sorry, but although I know how to untar, I wouldn't know what to do with the untarred results :)
08:09.23CosmicDuckok
08:10.03DaramarakPaulFertser: Would I have to download these modules from the SHR download site, or are they already somewhere and only need untarring?
08:10.20DocScrutinizerCosmicDuck: actually setting up a uSD is muuuch more easy than it sounds on wiki
08:10.34CosmicDuck2. try? In which package I could find ld for checking installed libraries? I think there is missing one on my phone to show jpg images.
08:10.46PaulFertserDaramarak: where did you get the kernel from?
08:10.49CosmicDuckaeh used, not installed ;-)
08:11.04PaulFertserDaramarak: there should be a modules archive just in the same directory. Wget it to / and untar from there.
08:11.16DaramarakDocScrutinizer: I would be very interested to hear if that is working. Although an image with paroli as main phone application would be the only thing that would let me drop om2009 without looking back.
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08:11.41DocScrutinizerCosmicDuck: bin-utils? core-utils? sth like that
08:11.54DaramarakPaulFertser: Yes there was modules files there too.
08:11.56CosmicDuckThanks, will check it.
08:12.17DocScrutinizerCosmicDuck: opkg list | grep ld
08:12.42CIA-52openmoko: 03werner * r5540 10/developers/werner/gta02-core/ge864/ (NOTES ge864.brd ge864.cmp ge864.fpd ge864.pro pin.mod): Continuing on GE864 EVB. Flipped the module for through-hole BGA mounting.
08:12.53CosmicDuckthis was to easy ;-)
08:13.06CosmicDuckopkg install ldd
08:13.31PaulFertserDaramarak: so, are you on it?
08:14.03DocScrutinizerwtf is through-hole BGA??? o.O
08:15.09DaramarakPaulFertser: Yes, I will do as soon as I can get my FR online or equivalent. Thanks Paul, for all the help you have given me on this problem. I am not familiar with most of the inner workings of linux so you help has been very helpful.
08:15.56DaramarakPaulFertser: Your help was helpful. Wow, what a wonderful sentence. I just wanted to say that I am grateful.
08:16.04Daramarak:D
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08:16.16PaulFertserDaramarak: :D
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08:38.57CosmicDuckArgh....sh***t busybox. I cannot install findutils because xargs and file are binaries instead of links..
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08:42.15CosmicDuckOk after manual installing of jpeg libraries now I can open jpegs with exhibit...but rotate of image will now crash again...:-(
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09:22.09CIA-52openmoko: 03werner * r5541 10/developers/werner/gta02-core/ge864/ (ge864.brd ge864.cmp ge864.pro ge864.sch sot353.mod): Added dual transistor. More changes.
09:24.26DocScrutinizerCosmicDuck: see people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/opkg-u
09:25.56DocScrutinizerDaramarak: opkg list doesn't provide any paroli :-/
09:26.07DocScrutinizer(yet???)
09:29.57PaulFertserDocScrutinizer: have you opkg updated alread?
09:30.27DocScrutinizerhehe, you cheated by reading #-cdevel, no?
09:30.42PaulFertserNo :)
09:30.47DocScrutinizerupdate still in progress
09:31.24DocScrutinizerfinished
09:31.42DocScrutinizer<PROTECTED>
09:31.58DocScrutinizeryooooh
09:32.38DocScrutinizerwould I want to "opkg install paroli-autostart" as well??
09:33.05DocScrutinizerDaramarak: seems paroli hit shr-feed yesterday
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09:36.07PaulFertserDocScrutinizer: autostart? Sounds scary ;)
09:36.17DocScrutinizeryeah
09:43.59DaramarakDocScrutinizer: but does it work? Is bind-home in effect at SHR?
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09:45.03DocScrutinizerDaramarak: bind-home? why do you think this is a prerequisite for paroli?
09:45.21tomcatekDaramarak: You can manually mount /home/root to uSD
09:45.57tomcatekDaramarak: it's just a matter of editing /etc/fstab
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09:48.12DocScrutinizerand I don't see why I should need that mandatory for paroli
09:48.47DocScrutinizermy /home *is* on uSD right now, even without bind-home ;-P
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09:49.31DocScrutinizerbut it's no difference paroli was able to detect even, no?
09:50.13DocScrutinizersorry I don't see how to start paroli now that it's installed :-/
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09:54.19DocScrutinizeraaah, opkg actually obeyed to --noaction :-P
09:54.50PaulFertserDocScrutinizer: lol
09:55.00PaulFertserDocScrutinizer: you didn't expect it to, did you? ;)
09:55.09DocScrutinizerexactly
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09:56.11DocScrutinizeropkg has a printf() for every shit, but not for --noaction
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09:57.13DocScrutinizerplus opkg happily ignores faulty options like -no-action
09:58.22lindi-DocScrutinizer: and opkg --help does not work as non-root
09:58.33DocScrutinizermuhahaha
09:59.14DocScrutinizeropkg is a *really* sophisticated tool. mature and userfriendly
09:59.39DocScrutinizer</sarcasm>
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10:06.16WonkaDocScrutinizer: just wanted to ask if you were joking...
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10:09.29DocScrutinizerwooot, even an icon :-D
10:10.57DocScrutinizeryo, after 2min of loading... :)
10:13.33CIA-52freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rab41e069ee96 10/libfsobasics/ (3 files in 2 dirs): libfsobasics: add StringHandling.enumToString courtesy Playya.
10:13.50DaramarakDocScrutinizer: Is it usable?
10:14.00DocScrutinizerkinda
10:14.25DocScrutinizerdon't see any advantage over shr native yet, though
10:15.27PaulFertserDaramarak: why can't you take off your uSD, copy modules archive there, then plug in your FR and untar?
10:15.41PaulFertsers/take off/pull out/
10:19.12CIA-52freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r49005aa95703 10/fsousaged/src/plugins/controller/plugin.vala: fsousaged: controller: show resume reason as string
10:19.58DocScrutinizereeeeek, accidentally loaded illume native theme :-S
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10:31.49CIA-52freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * rbdae69937c29 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (docs/TODO pimd_generic.py):
10:31.49CIA-52freesmartphone.org: opimd: add experimental support of "greater than" and "lesser than" queries
10:31.49CIA-52freesmartphone.org: Field names to use when quering:
10:31.49CIA-52freesmartphone.org: _lt_Field, _float_lt_Field, _gt_Field, _float_gt_Field - compare after casting to float
10:31.52CIA-52freesmartphone.org: _int_lt_Field, _int_gt_Field - compare after casting to int
10:31.54CIA-52freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * r9ac762f4799a 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/backend_manager.py: opimd: backend manager: send dbus signal after initializing all backends on startup
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10:31.57CIA-52freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * r99e07ef2f0ee 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (4 files in 2 dirs): opimd: remove entries from cache when disabling backend
10:32.00CIA-52freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * r5b7244665aea 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (pimd_calls.py pimd_notes.py): opimd: Calls, Notes: check entry id when deleting to prevent tracebacks
10:32.03CIA-52freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * rfdad05603d63 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (docs/TODO pimd_generic.py):
10:32.06CIA-52freesmartphone.org: opimd: add new mode in quering: at least one
10:32.24CIA-52freesmartphone.org: To use it, set _at_least_one field to non-false value.
10:32.24CIA-52freesmartphone.org: In this mode returned entries match to at least one field in query.
10:32.38CIA-52freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07framework * r0aa6549711c6 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'dos/opimd-tracking'
10:45.53CIA-52freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r16bc121c3566 10/fsousaged/src/plugins/controller/plugin.vala:
10:45.53CIA-52freesmartphone.org: fsousaged: controller: fix crash when a resource implementor quits the bus
10:45.53CIA-52freesmartphone.org: (Note to self: do not modify an interable while iterating over it...)
10:45.53CIA-52freesmartphone.org: Thanks ptitjes and juergbi.
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11:20.18CIA-52freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r7e1c1a3e2eeb 10/fsodeviced/src/plugins/kernel_idle/plugin.vala:
11:20.18CIA-52freesmartphone.org: fsodeviced: kernel_idle: add new configuration option to Display resource specifying whether
11:20.18CIA-52freesmartphone.org: the holding the display resource will allow for dimming the display after a while.
11:20.18CIA-52freesmartphone.org: Set "display_resource_allows_dim = 1" in [fsodevice.kernel_idle] to allow dimming.
11:20.21CIA-52freesmartphone.org: Default behaviour (display always on full brightness when resource is held) remains unchanged.
11:20.24CIA-52freesmartphone.org: Fixes FSO #370
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11:41.41CIA-52freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * r84899d83f8de 10/vapi/elm.vapi: elm.vapi: bind additional toolbar (item) API as of upstream svn rev 42008
11:44.46DocScrutinizerDaramarak: paroli install works on shr. it doesn't segfault on first invocation... ;-P No further tests done, as I'm not interested in it. Nevertheless it seems there's no more excuse to switch to SHR ;-D
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11:57.44PaulFertserDoes anybody want to test my wifi patch? Please!
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12:03.13DocScrutinizerPaulFertser: sorry, have to run. Ping you later
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12:52.23naegi am missing libstdc++.so.6, in which packages is it?
12:53.09neomiliumnaeg: in which distribution ?
12:53.21naegneomilium: SHR
12:53.27naeg(sry for forgetting this)
12:59.31neomiliumnaeg: i don't know but SHR is based on OpenEmbedded, you could look this way
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13:05.23PaulFertsernaeg: libstdc++ probably?
13:05.31PaulFertsernaeg: ever tried "opkg search c++"?
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13:07.25naegnot yet, currently making a icon for linball, but i am really not good with gimp
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13:10.05CIA-52freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * r8b6a519a4964 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (pimd_generic.py query_manager.py):
13:10.05CIA-52freesmartphone.org: opimd: implement sorting
13:10.05CIA-52freesmartphone.org: _sortby field in query specifies field name to use when sorting.
13:10.05CIA-52freesmartphone.org: To reverse results, use non-false value of _sortdesc
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13:17.21PaulFertserLaF0rge: greetings :D
13:22.21LaF0rgepaul: thanks.
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13:22.24PaulFertserLaF0rge: i just realised that your reply intended for the kernel ML never made it, because our stupid lists still subscribe-only and your gnumonks address is probably not subscribed. Hence no followup. But taking an opportunity right now i can say only "Great thanks! And good luck to you hacking on something interesting in that mysterious Korea :)"
13:22.28LaF0rgewas looking for raster but he's not online right now
13:22.52LaF0rgepaul: you will soon see news on linux-arm-kernel
13:23.18LaF0rgepaul: combine that with what is public about my last trip to korea...
13:23.52PaulFertserLaF0rge: waiting eagerly :)
13:24.10LaF0rgepaul: well, will probably take another week or so
13:25.05PaulFertserSince OM-the-comany went in a shadow OM community doesn't hurry anywhere anymore.
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13:31.34naegyiha,  i can play pokemon on my neo :D
13:34.03CIA-52freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * r6ae1f6140711 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/query_manager.py: opimd: place entries without field which is used for sorting always on end
13:35.06dos1naeg: is it open source? :>
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13:38.10naegdos1: pokemon?
13:39.09soltysnaeg: hmm any link for that app ?:>
13:39.21dos1visualboyadvance i suppose
13:40.26naegsoltys: http://www.opkg.org/package_262.html
13:40.27naegyeah
13:40.48naegruns great
13:41.00naegmay someone should try to port snes9x
13:41.05DocScrutinizerLaF0rge: hey!! :-)) long time no see
13:41.08naegi'd like to play super mario brothers
13:41.19LaF0rgedoc: hi, yes. as indicated, I was mainly looking for raster.
13:41.23dos1naeg: i'll try to build it, it's already in shr/import (snes9x)
13:41.56naegdos1: great, so i don't have to try it out :) but this needs more performance
13:43.13DocScrutinizerLaF0rge: how's FOSS business?
13:43.22LaF0rgegood.
13:43.37DocScrutinizerLaF0rge: good to hear that
13:43.42LaF0rgei'm just sad that I now have a new motorbike in berlin (and an old one in taipei) but have to spend a lot of time in korea
13:43.56DocScrutinizerhehe
13:44.27DocScrutinizerLaF0rge: you either need a smaller motorbike, or a bigger private jet
13:44.51LaF0rgeheh. no. i need remote drones that i can send to korea ;)
13:44.59PaulFertserLaF0rge: (OT) are you wearing _full_ protection usually?
13:45.11DocScrutinizerLaF0rge: btw fsckng Korea. They have "paparazzi" there :-/
13:45.20LaF0rgepaul: in germany yes, in taiwan no
13:45.33LaF0rgedoc: ?
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13:46.27DocScrutinizerblockwarte, oder sowas. Lassen sich ne plastiktuete fuer umsonst geben im laden und kassieren dann die kopfpraemie fuer die anzeige
13:46.46DocScrutinizersounds like third reich
13:47.23LaF0rgedoc: oh well, nothing to seriously worry about.  I'm also not planning to live here ;)
13:47.29DocScrutinizerLaF0rge: don't spit on the street! ;-)
13:48.45DocScrutinizerLaF0rge: had a look at N900/RX-51 yet?
13:48.56LaF0rgedoc: i never do that
13:49.05DocScrutinizerlol - why?
13:49.08LaF0rgen900: well, only online obviously
13:49.14LaF0rgeneve do that (spitting)
13:49.17DocScrutinizeraaah
13:49.33DocScrutinizeryep, only online :-S
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13:49.52LaF0rgebut yes, n900 seems interesting. the keyboard looks pretty unusable, I am afraid
13:50.03DocScrutinizerstill looks so fsckng promising I simply can't wait to get hold on one
13:50.15LaF0rgein any case, there will also be LiMo based mobile phones later this year... some with Samsung SoC :)
13:50.27DocScrutinizerI know
13:50.54DocScrutinizerfor some strange reason I seem to remeber I seriously dislike LiMo
13:51.30DocScrutinizerany idea why?
13:52.54DocScrutinizerLaF0rge: (kbd) can't be worse than M800
13:53.18LaF0rgedoc: i thought the m900 kbd had even less keys? but yes, the 800 is already bad compared to tytn2 or so
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13:54.37DocScrutinizeractually it's the most shitty kbd I ever used (almost, maybe except the one on some casio wristwatch calculator)
13:54.47DocScrutinizer(m800)
13:55.08DocScrutinizerfor the number of keys: It's not the main criterion
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13:55.24DocScrutinizermore important is a really good layout
13:55.35ShellEvilwishes he could make his own devices.
13:55.37DocScrutinizerfor 2nd/3rd layer
13:55.46ShellEvil(as in laptops/...)
13:57.47DocScrutinizerLaF0rge: but I agree I as well would prefer a N810 alike kbd on N900
13:58.07CIA-52freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07framework * rc29058b34f02 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/query_manager.py: opimd: now *really* place entries without field which is used for sorting always on end ;)
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13:58.59DocScrutinizerwell, some crazy guys here are even using Dvorak :-P So probably you can get used to almost everything layout wise
13:59.13DocScrutinizeras long as the mechanical part is ok
14:00.50DocScrutinizer~seen raster
14:00.51aptraster <n=raster@enlightenment/developer/raster> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 15d 10h 55m 8s ago, saying: 'dunno'.
14:01.22DocScrutinizerLaF0rge: isn't he next door to you? :-P
14:02.57DocScrutinizerwell, probably his employer locked hin in to a tamper-proof room :-)
14:03.27LaF0rgedoc: not yet, i think he will be here soon
14:04.07LaF0rgeand his employer is the same company that I am spending my time here in... and I managed to get everything (git, ssh, openvpn)funnelled through their web proxy ;)
14:04.10DocScrutinizeronly mad dogs go to korea in August, no?
14:04.33LaF0rgewhy?
14:04.40DocScrutinizerclimate
14:04.50LaF0rgeit's less warm and less humid than taiwan
14:04.53LaF0rgein fact, not too different from germany
14:05.11DocScrutinizeroh, so it might be bearable actually
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14:06.28CIA-52openmoko: 03werner * r5542 10/trunk/eda/fped/ (delete.c gui.html):
14:06.28CIA-52openmoko: - destroy_obj: when deleting width expressions, check that they're actually
14:06.29CIA-52openmoko:  non-NULL
14:06.29CIA-52openmoko: - gui.html: added more details on selecting
14:06.33DocScrutinizerthough I start to feel like Mirko even here the last days. Much too hot
14:07.23DocScrutinizergrrrr /ban CIA-52
14:08.04DocScrutinizerI'm honestly tempted... :-(
14:08.21Wonka?
14:09.51DocScrutinizerWonka: Werner spamming this #chan with his gta02-core commit nitifications. I don't see the purpose
14:10.22Wonkahm, #openmoko-cdevel would be better, yes
14:11.00DocScrutinizerwerner doesn't even care. He states this is "Public advertising" for core :-S
14:11.28DocScrutinizerI raised the issue several times to him. No reaction
14:11.48DocScrutinizerno surprise, as he isn't even joined in here
14:12.56DocScrutinizerprobably it's just an issue of core living on same git/whatever cvs as openmoko does
14:14.32LaF0rgedoc: yes, that's the case
14:14.56Wonkawhat is this "core" stuff anyway?
14:15.23DocScrutinizerI really think it's useless here at "user" #om anyway
14:16.07DocScrutinizerand I agree with wonka completely, not only for core. For OM kernel/whatever as well
14:19.02*** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)
14:20.24DocScrutinizerwonka: check wiki for gta02-core
14:21.36DocScrutinizerwill create a wikipage "hard-core" redirecting to gta02-core ;-P
14:25.18CIA-52freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07vala-dbus-binding-tool * r57899d91854c 10/po/Makefile.in.in: typechange: po/Makefile.in.in
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14:28.07CIA-52freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r23f99551b481 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/const.py:
14:28.07CIA-52freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: add number type 161 as reported by shishz
14:28.07CIA-52freesmartphone.org: Closes FSO #469
14:31.59CIA-52freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r1d058fd865cf 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/gprs.py: ogsmd: add provider 'Telfort' to gprs. Thanks pander, closes FSO #394
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14:38.22CIA-52freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r9aa355daab1a 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/gprs.py: ogsmd: add KPN, thanks dos1
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14:48.37rhkfinPOLL: http://doodle.com/sd2c8d8snr23eeqq - What distro you run on your Openmoko phone
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14:50.34tschakawhoops. didnt add the version to the name.
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14:53.27kstarMy Freerunner's AUX button is kaput. Is there some way to get into uBoot without that?
14:53.54ShellEvilIt's probably simply fallen off the motherboard.
14:54.10ShellEvilDo you have a soldering iron?
14:54.39naegcan't i use mp3's for ringtones?
14:54.50naegsettings apps can't play
14:55.01kstarShellEvil: Yes, I do.
14:55.31SM2krhkfin: getting plenty of response I see
14:55.32kstarShellEvil: But I don't have the star screw-driver to open the cover. Is there no "software way" of doing things?
14:55.59ShellEvilkstar: what happens if you hold down power - do you get into NOR uboot?
14:56.03ShellEvilOr is that aux
14:56.17ShellEvilThe appropriate screwdriver is $2 on ebay
14:56.26ShellEvilhas no FR only GTA01.
14:56.50kstarShellEvil: If I boot with power held, it just does a normal boot
14:56.50Wonkaaux it is
14:56.55Wonkahold aux, press power
14:57.05ShellEvilk
14:57.10kstaryep
14:57.27ShellEvilI assume you've bricked it?
14:58.35kstarWill that help?
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15:14.51PBeckhi
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15:29.02PaulFertserkstar: what bootloader do you currently have? Why do you want to enter NOR?
15:29.26PaulFertserDocScrutinizer: i'm using Dvorak and it is actually easier and cooler than qwerty, it's qwerty that's weird, not dvorak! :P
15:30.28PaulFertserkstar: to open the case you might want to try various flatscrewdrivers you've laying around, one of mine was a good fit.
15:31.01kstarPaulFertser: I use uB00t
15:31.11kstarPaulFertser: Okay, thanks. Will check the screwdriver.
15:31.25kstarPaulFertser: I want to enter NOR to flash a different OS.
15:31.37PaulFertserkstar: you can do it from userspace as well.
15:31.41PaulFertserkstar: probably even faster.
15:32.05PaulFertserkstar: btw, did you apply strong force to the aux button? What could have happened with it?
15:32.16kstarPaulFertser: Yes, I did try applying force.
15:32.22kstarPaulFertser: How do I do it from user space?
15:32.34kstarPaulFertser: And thanks a lot for the tip, the smallest of the flat screwdrivers works!
15:32.37PaulFertserkstar: i mean, was it some particular impact after which it stopped working?
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15:33.07PaulFertserkstar: just "flash_eraseall /dev/mtdX; nandwrite -p <image> /dev/mtdX"
15:33.33PaulFertserkstar: search the wiki for "flash_eraseall", you'll see examples.
15:33.39UndrwaterPaulFertser: that's faster than using dfu-util?
15:34.09PaulFertserUndrwater: i've heard it is, haven't tried myself. In fact i still have factory OM2007 on NAND (but a new kernel)
15:34.57UndrwaterPaulFertser: why continue to run 2007?
15:35.01kstarPaulFertser: Oh, but I don't have shell access. I'm on QtExtended!
15:35.29Undrwaterkstar: you can ssh into qtextended, can you not?
15:35.36PaulFertserUndrwater: i don't run it of course. Just in case of emergency when i need to tweak something on my uSD.
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15:35.56Undrwaterahh..so you're running your OS of choice from SD
15:36.02PaulFertserkstar: hehe, it's like qtextended is WinMo ;)
15:36.28kstaragrees
15:36.39PaulFertserUndrwater: yup, and it was Debian since i bought my FR.
15:36.51kstarWhere are the access screws of the FR?
15:36.54kstarPaulFertser: ^
15:36.58kstarAny idea?
15:36.58PaulFertserkstar: QtE still has ssh access
15:37.03kstarI found 2
15:37.11PaulFertserkstar: there're only 2
15:37.15kstarPaulFertser: Yeah, but you need to set up that (I forgot the name) daemon
15:37.20PaulFertserkstar: there's a wiki page on disassembling.
15:37.37kstarOkay, thanks.
15:37.42PaulFertserkstar: but basically after you unscrewed the 2 screws just start to take it apart starting from _bottom_
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15:38.01PaulFertserkstar: guitarpick or even fingernail works.
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15:38.16Undrwaterit's fun
15:38.35UndrwaterPaulFertser: are you using FSO  on deb?
15:38.47PaulFertserI don't exactly remember but i think i tried once to cut my fingrenails really really short and then i think i still managed to open the case.
15:38.52PaulFertserUndrwater: yes
15:39.18Undrwateryour own build, or is this available now/
15:39.22Undrwater?
15:39.36PaulFertserAt least i remember i wanted to prove something i guess it was opening the case with cut fingernails.
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15:40.03PaulFertserUndrwater: i'm still running all python stuff (except fso-abyss) from git, cloned around MS5.5 times.
15:40.13Undrwateryou left them long to prove to the ladies that you could open them without breaking a fingernail :P
15:40.22PaulFertserUndrwater: i'm sure fso is packaged in even better state currently.
15:40.45Undrwateri'll have to check it out again...H:1 states they may move to FSO
15:41.35Undrwaterplayed with the pre a couple days ago
15:41.44PaulFertserUndrwater: i was used to be too lazy to cut the fingernails and broke them routinely, mainly by trying to use in a screwdriver-fasion. But now i have to cut regularly because i go to some kind of rock-climbing training.
15:42.05Undrwatergood reason to cut nails :)
15:42.14kstardoesn't have a guitar-pick
15:42.26kstaris trying hard with fingernails - doesn't work
15:42.59Undrwaterkstar: did you get the screw under the sticker with the "x" on it?
15:43.20kstarUndrwater: Yep
15:43.38Undrwaterlooking at the wiki?
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15:46.13kstarCool!
15:46.13kstarThanks a lot.
15:46.33Undrwatergot it?
15:46.49kstarI see the actual push button has fallen off the "external" button
15:46.50kstarUndrwater: Yep
15:47.16kstarOh well, nope, it's not that.
15:47.22kstarIt's just something very funny...
15:48.12PaulFertserkstar: make a photo!
15:48.18PaulFertserkstar: we like to laugh
15:48.21Undrwater:D
15:48.34Undrwaterbetter than crying
15:48.47PaulFertserkstar: so, managed to use fingernails or found a guitarpick finally? ;)
15:49.59kstarPaulFertser: Fingernails ;-)
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15:53.06kstarThanks a lot, PaulFertser, Undrwater, ShellEvil.
15:53.18Undrwateryw
15:53.20kstarWe wanted to do a presentation tomorrow with it, but then, I should get back to SHR :)
15:53.37PaulFertserkstar: so, what's the problem with the button?
15:54.10kstarPaulFertser: The board seems to have moved away from the button, so pressing the button from outside, doesn't press the "real" button inside far enough.
15:54.35PaulFertserkstar: hm, strange, the board fits tightly in place usually...
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15:55.56kstarAh, no
15:55.59kstarThat wasn't the problem.
15:56.28kstarPaulFertser: Due to repeated pressing, the button had become inclined instead of being flat on the motherboard.
15:56.44ShellEvilIt's almost fallen off then
15:56.47PaulFertserkstar: the button inclined?
15:56.54kstarI pushed it down and it seems to work now.
15:56.55ShellEvilit will shortly fall off totally.
15:57.00kstarBut the solder isn't very weak as yet.
15:57.04PaulFertserkstar: so that means the soldering points are weak, right?
15:57.17PaulFertserkstar: how can that be?
15:59.03kstarEven otherwise, there still seems to be some problem :-?
15:59.26ShellEvil91% of buttons on cellphones are not well secured.
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15:59.42ShellEvilAnd tend to fail on pressing too hard/too often
16:00.01kstarAww, maybe it was just that the AUX button's external cover had fallen down to far.
16:00.19ShellEvilThis is made much worse by many buttons not having tactile effects that are enough to be easily felt - so they get pressed too hard
16:00.23kstarIt seems to work now. In any case, since I now know how to open it, I should be able to fix it unless something goes terribly wrong.
16:00.32ShellEvilSoldering it on now properly is probably easy
16:00.36ShellEvilas it's in the right position.
16:01.39PaulFertserkstar: yes, ShellEvil is right provided you can solder ;)
16:03.37kstarPaulFertser, ShellEvil: But I don't have an SMD soldering iron
16:03.47PaulFertserkstar: there's no difference
16:04.24kstarOkay.
16:04.36kstarI solder on the top of the board, right?
16:04.58PaulFertserkstar: you solder it back in place
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16:05.32kstarThat's from the top, right? Since it's an SMD push button...
16:05.52PaulFertserkstar: right
16:06.05kstarPlus, my soldering iron tip is pretty large - like the conventional component ones. You really mean that isn't a problem?
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16:08.01PaulFertserkstar: if it's a regular tip you can sharpen it or change to some piece of thin cuprum wire...
16:08.10PaulFertserkstar: let me show you something...
16:08.32rhkfinSM2k: plenty resonses - that's good :)
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16:08.35PaulFertserkstar: https://paulfertser.is-a-geek.org/files/useless_buzzfix/
16:09.02PaulFertserkstar: i first removed the wire (in red insulation), then removed insulation and soldered the wire back. With that iron.
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16:16.19kstarPaulFertser: Wow. That's more primitive than my iron.
16:16.30kstarAnd thanks a lot... indeed it was the soldering
16:16.42kstarI resoldered the contacts, and it's perfect now, much to my surprise.
16:16.51kstarI didn't realise it was weak because things were sitting in place.
16:17.23kstarWill post pics in a while
16:18.26kstars/while/a few days/ O_o
16:19.54PaulFertserkstar: :-O
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16:21.34SeligArkins/days/years/
16:21.54kstarI don't think that'll happen ;-)
16:21.56kstarIt's just days
16:22.08kstarAnyway, I need to go and give the phone to a developer who's demoing it
16:22.10kstarThanks a lot
16:22.15ShellEvil:)
16:24.32ShellEvilhttp://www.michaelyon-online.com/the-kopp-etchells-effect.htm?beautiful
16:25.12PaulFertserGuys, try to google "recursion"
16:26.32ShellEvilSee the completion list for 'i am ex'
16:26.34ShellEvilon google
16:28.48rhkfinPaulFertser: heh, recursion's nice :)
16:29.49rhkfinPaulFertser: I don't know if you're already fed up with this or have I missed something, but a) do you have the rights to commit to andy-tracking b) any changes of uploading the wlan patch there? c) also some lines for gentoo installation are available..
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16:31.58PaulFertserShellEvil: there was an extremely funny completion suggested if one entered "how t" (in russian): it suggested "how to shut up that fucking dray" and there was another suggestion "how to make that it'll release me please" (here release means stop the effect of drug-abuse)
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16:32.34PaulFertserrhkfin: i've right to commit to andy-tracking
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16:32.48PaulFertserrhkfin: some chances after it gets tested by somebody and Werner will agree.
16:32.57PaulFertserrhkfin: c) i can't understand
16:34.28rhkfinPaulFertser: a) b) great, c) wait a sec..
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16:36.21mjrwhat's a dray?
16:36.45PaulFertsermjr: a 4-wheeled village vehicle pulled by horses usually.
16:36.48rhkfinPaulFertser: "build doesn't find Gentoos cross-compiler' -> installation is hard. Someone might write a patch..
16:36.57mjrI .. seee
16:37.20PaulFertserrhkfin: what's the problem with specifying CROSS_COMPILE=/whatever/path/to/gcc ./build ?
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16:38.50rhkfinPaulFertser: Trying to get the guy here to talk to you..
16:39.22Keyes
16:39.47rhkfinPaulFertser: Ke is the guy..
16:39.54rhkfinKe: 19:37 < PaulFertser> rhkfin: what's the problem with specifying CROSS_COMPILE=/whatever/path/to/gcc ./build ?
16:41.09Kehmm actually, the code is there already
16:41.14Keso none
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16:41.47PaulFertserKe: :D
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16:42.11PaulFertserKe: are you going to cross-compile emacs btw? ;)
16:42.20PaulFertserKe: i know you gentoo guys like crosscompiling.
16:42.27KeI don't use emacs
16:42.59PaulFertserKe: i suspect it can become an ultimate framework for an excellent user experience on FR.
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16:43.30KeD
16:44.27PaulFertserKe: so if anyone in gentoo community will be going to perform it, i can give some advice on partial (full is not possible anyway) solution. At least now i know how emacs's native compilation works.
16:45.45Kenow I just wonder why isn't build the recommended way of building the gentoo kernel
16:46.28Ke(I just blindly edited over the CROSS_COMPILE=...)
16:47.07PaulFertserKe: probably because the build script is an openmoko-only "invention".
16:47.34Kewell still gentoo unofficila manual recommends andy-tracking
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17:02.20Kealso vala-terminal is using 20% of memory
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17:02.41Keall the om2009 configuration files seem to be binary
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17:40.36naeghas someone a working htop.desktop? i have terminal=true in it, but no terminal spawns
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19:15.22ace_where has the repository for 2007.2 moved to? i can't find it at downloads.openmoko.org anymore
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19:25.29DocScrutinizernaeg:.... (away:-(   ) nevertheless....    htop seems broken. valatern doesn't respond good to the cmdline the .desktop tries to kick off
19:26.13DocScrutinizerace_: probably botrotten to invisible dust
19:26.21DocScrutinizerbIt
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19:30.26KeDocScrutinizer: where is the .desktop-file?
19:31.13DocScrutinizerfind / -name "*.desktop"
19:32.07Kegood point
19:32.16Zorkman./usr/share/applications/
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19:41.42rhkfinace_: yes, most likely you don't want that...
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19:52.48CIA-52freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * rb3468181e839 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (12 files in 2 dirs): opimd: implement _initialized in backends
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20:19.05SlaxxerDoc  
20:19.14Slaxxerpm?
20:21.11Slaxxerthe micro coaxial cable to the gps antenna module  is tested with ohm meter?  
20:21.15Slaxxercorrect?
20:22.23Slaxxerthe center lead should be insulated from the outer shielding?
20:22.41ace_rhkfin: anything is better than 2008.x :)
20:22.47PaulFertserSlaxxer: it should be insulated, sure
20:23.33ace_it's the most unintuitive interface i've ever had the displeasure of using, which is why i'm sticking to 2007
20:23.56PaulFertserace_: 2008.x is dead
20:23.56Slaxxerthe center lead should have continuity from the module to the center of the microplug
20:24.04PaulFertserace_: nobody's using it for long-long time
20:24.17PaulFertserSlaxxer: yes, it's just a coaxial cable.
20:24.22PaulFertserSlaxxer: at least that's my understanding
20:24.34Slaxxeri guess i need 2
20:25.07ace_paul: what are people using then? 2009? that's still in testing
20:25.11PaulFertserSlaxxer: 2 what?
20:25.21PaulFertserace_: 2008 was _never_ good.
20:25.22Slaxxergps modules
20:25.30PaulFertserace_: Most people are using SHR.
20:25.31ace_paul: i know it wasn't :)
20:25.36Slaxxerantennae
20:25.40PaulFertserace_: and SHR already has Paroli in the feeds.
20:25.54PaulFertserSlaxxer: to compare?
20:25.57Slaxxerno
20:26.23ace_alright, i might give that a try then, it still has libtool-gsm right ?
20:26.26Slaxxer<PROTECTED>
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20:27.16rhkfinace_: started this today, check what most people use: http://doodle.com/sd2c8d8snr23eeqq
20:27.19Slaxxerthen i need another replacement screen:)
20:27.45PaulFertserace_: no
20:27.57PaulFertserace_: completely different stack: FSO
20:28.05PaulFertserSlaxxer: what are you trying to do?
20:28.42Slaxxerfix 2 freerunners
20:28.46ace_ah, i'll stick to 2007 then anyway, that just works for me :)
20:29.55PaulFertserace_: you should have sticked to a nokia dumb cellphone then.
20:30.02Slaxxer1 has no continuity on the center lead an the 2nd     ,, i   broke it myself:)
20:30.03rhkfinPaulFertser: heh :
20:30.14SpeedEvilSlaxxer: you can get cable like the coax
20:30.20SpeedEvilSlaxxer: but maybe not easily
20:30.21Slaxxerace have u tried shr?
20:30.50ace_no, does it have libgsmd-tool ?
20:30.57Slaxxerno i just want to replace the antenna module
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20:31.12PaulFertserSpeedEvil: what about the plug? I'm not sure how exactly it's connected to the cable.
20:31.26Slaxxer<PROTECTED>
20:31.33Slaxxert
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20:32.17Slaxxermight require a machine
20:32.44Slaxxerplug is crimped on these 2
20:33.11Slaxxersoldered both sheild an center   on the module
20:33.31SpeedEviloh - that's going to be tricky - I forgot. yes - crimp would be hard
20:33.32PaulFertserSlaxxer: doesn't sound too hard?
20:33.54ace_paul: a dumb nokia doesn't have libgsmd-tool either, so no :)
20:33.59PaulFertser(unfortunately i don't have a spare to disassemble)
20:34.02Slaxxerif u hace some special brain surgery tools maybe
20:34.08PaulFertserace_: why do you want libgsmd-tool anyway?
20:35.06ace_i have some code that relies on it to send an sms
20:35.06PaulFertserace_: sending an sms is trivial with FSO too.
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20:35.18tomcatekace_: in SHR there is no libgsm-tool, but sending sms works well :]
20:35.22Slaxxerim thinking that the gps antenna  needs to be part of the board
20:35.46ace_there's a command line tool for sms sending? or some library i can link to that does not require x?
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20:35.52PaulFertserace_: sure,
20:36.01tomcatekSlaxxer: do You wan't to plug external GPS antenna ?
20:36.01PaulFertserace_: dbus-send is there for your pleasure.
20:36.14Slaxxerand that speaker    white plastic box is what is causing the echo an stuff
20:36.15PaulFertsertomcatek: he talks about the internal one.
20:36.58Slaxxeri just need 2 replacement antenna modules:)
20:37.22Slaxxerso i dont have to have an externen ant.
20:37.23ace_ah, i'll try shr on one of my phones then
20:37.48PaulFertserace_: take shr unstable, testing is considerably worse.
20:37.49Slaxxeruse the lite image 090808 unstableee
20:37.53tomcatekSlaxxer: what's wrong with the built-in one/
20:37.54tomcatek?
20:38.09SlaxxeriBROKE it
20:38.24PaulFertsertomcatek: try to disassemble the FR 20 times and not brake the coaxial wire going to the antenna ;)
20:38.25Slaxxeroperator malfunction
20:38.45tomcatekhehehe
20:38.47Slaxxeri replaced my diusplay screen
20:38.56tomcatekou...
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20:39.03tomcatekSlaxxer: oled one?
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20:39.33Slaxxeri hit it with  a tree limb   while in  my pocket
20:39.59tomcatekou... that might hurt...
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20:40.37Slaxxer<PROTECTED>
20:48.09CIA-52openmoko: 03daveb * r5543 10/trunk/gta02-core/components/ge865.lib: ge865 pin type changes
20:50.59*** part/#openmoko dwb (n=david@a177027.upc-a.chello.nl)
20:52.48UndrwaterSlaxxer: think it's possible to isolate that speaker box to reduce echo?
20:53.32Undrwatermaybe a small o-ring or something
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21:06.30CIA-52openmoko: 03werner * r5544 10/trunk/gta02-core/modules/332fbga-p05.fpd:
21:06.30CIA-52openmoko: - modules/332fbga-p05.fpd: set package name to "332FBGA-P0.5" (before, it used
21:06.30CIA-52openmoko:  just the default, "_")
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21:10.55DocScrutinizerspeakerbox fixing ideas are nonsense. sorry
21:11.36*** join/#openmoko reinouts (n=reinout@s559355fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl)
21:12.26DocScrutinizerSlaxxer: where do you live?
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21:20.19CIA-52openmoko: 03werner * r5545 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (bt.sch gta02-core.sch modem.sch scripts/all-sheets wlan.sch):
21:20.19CIA-52openmoko: - scripts/all-sheets: added WLAN sheet
21:20.19CIA-52openmoko: - bt.sch: moved WLAN to separate sheet wlan.sch
21:20.19CIA-52openmoko: - modem.sch: new sheet for the GSM modem
21:20.50Slaxxercenter usa
21:21.31Slaxxeryes i do think it is
21:22.23Slaxxermaybe a rubber box instead
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21:24.40Slaxxerat least some kink of noise canceling material instead  of a plastic box inside of a  plastic box
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21:25.59SpeedEvilmake the box from scrith.
21:26.28UndrwaterDocScrutinizer: why nonsense?
21:27.02UndrwaterSpeedEvil: if only ;)
21:30.15Slaxxerdoit speedy
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21:30.58Slaxxeruse the freerunner box liner to make it:)
21:31.09Slaxxerbr perfect
21:32.21Undrwaterhmm
21:32.25Undrwatergreat idea
21:32.50Undrwaterany ideas why DocScrutinizer pooh-poohed it?
21:33.24Slaxxermaybe doc will enlighten me:)
21:33.30PaulFertserUndrwater: i can't exactly suggest or explain anything but i can tell you about my testing.
21:33.53Slaxxerproly the speaker mounting
21:34.09PaulFertserUndrwater: i tried to investigate echo and found that it's not there when i use only the board and the front casing.
21:34.25Slaxxerof course not
21:34.29Undrwatermmhmm
21:34.45Slaxxersimple physics
21:34.47PaulFertserUndrwater: if i add the back casing, the echo increases. If i screw the case parts together, it gets even stronger.
21:34.58Slaxxervibration
21:35.02PaulFertserUndrwater: if i enable calypso echo supression, it disappears.
21:35.21Slaxxerspeaker next to the mic
21:35.42Slaxxercompletely?
21:35.57PaulFertserSlaxxer: in my testing, yes.
21:36.08PaulFertserSlaxxer: i called fixed line.
21:36.13Undrwaterbut not speakerphone
21:36.22CIA-52openmoko: 03werner * r5546 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (cpu.sch io.sch):
21:36.22CIA-52openmoko: - cpu.sch: implemented nACCEL_CS removal, freeing EINT8/GPG0
21:36.22CIA-52openmoko: - io.sch: implemented nACCEL_CS removal, removing R7810
21:36.22CIA-52openmoko: - io.sch: added pointer to ECN0016
21:36.34*** part/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.95.163)
21:36.49PaulFertserUndrwater: unfortunately, not. They're too close probably.
21:36.50Slaxxergooood
21:37.04DocScrutinizerwhite silly is for SPEAKER. If you use speakerphone (which btw has very few echo here on SHR-u), then the white silly is your least problem. If you use earpiece transducer (handset mode), then white silly isn't involved at all. So.... explain to me why it's NO nonsense
21:37.49CIA-52openmoko: 03werner * r5547 10/trunk/gta02-core/docs/ecn/ (STATUS ecn0016.txt): - moved ECN0016 to "Execute" (review, really)
21:39.09UndrwaterDocScrutinizer: can't...speakerphone here has great echo (shr-u) on other party's side...speakerphone is not using white silly?
21:39.56CIA-52openmoko: 03rehar * r5548 10/trunk/gta02-core/docs/ecn/ (ecn0032.txt ecn0033.txt):
21:39.56CIA-52openmoko: - removed CRLF in ECN0032
21:39.56CIA-52openmoko: - changed C3008 to C3006, added C4406 and added possible capacitors to ECN0033
21:40.15DocScrutinizerspeaker has it's output next to mic input hole. You'll gain *nothing* on fidling with white silly
21:40.38UndrwaterDocScrutinizer: but can't some isolation be done?
21:40.47DocScrutinizerhow?
21:41.20Undrwaterreducing vibration between output and mic input
21:41.25DocScrutinizerbuild a wall alonf long meridian of freerunner - across the screen and backlid?
21:41.36Undrwater:D
21:41.43Undrwaterif it could work...yes
21:42.32DocScrutinizeryou have a speaker to the air and a mic next to it. how the hell do you think you can isolate it???
21:43.47*** part/#openmoko quatrox (n=quatrox@port809.ds1-rd.adsl.cybercity.dk)
21:44.29Slaxxertheres only 1 speaker any ways   so why not let it    speak out 1 side instead of revibrating inside the dang case?
21:44.42Undrwateri was thinking of isolating some of the vibration created by the speaker, or at the mic itself...
21:45.07DocScrutinizerthe mic is isolated to the inside
21:45.23Undrwateri'm thnking of reducing the vibration of the component, not the vib in the air
21:45.34DocScrutinizerand I won't elaborate any further on that
21:45.44Undrwaterno...that makes sense
21:46.15Undrwateris the speaker as well?
21:46.23Undrwaterno..it wouldn't be
21:46.38Slaxxerone
21:47.11Slaxxeran a plastic speaker holder that    takes the sound everywhere but out of the phone
21:48.12Slaxxerim going to do it with my spare
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22:00.13flecktorhi
22:00.18flecktoranyone around?
22:00.42Slaxxerusing any type of uncured silicone   will eat the electronics
22:01.09Zeroedoutyup, around too, whats up?
22:01.40flecktori want to ask where to start if i want to setup a simple hello world software for openmoko fso
22:05.34Undrwaterwow...big update on shr-u
22:05.44Zeroedout...in python? just  type away and run in the interpretor. In C++? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain
22:08.37flecktorwhich of python and c++ is better from your point of view and why?
22:09.02*** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@90-227-33-55-no42.tbcn.telia.com)
22:15.18SpeedEvilWhich is better - a wife, or a dog?
22:15.34SpeedEvilThey are different things that sometimes are useful for overlapping stuff.
22:15.36azaghalWife
22:15.57SpeedEvilazaghal: not if you want to have them fetch sticks. :)
22:16.02azaghalTry doing you know what with dog...
22:16.21SpeedEvilPython is for some things much faster to develop for.
22:16.32SpeedEvilIt can be lots slower though, and use lots more RAM.
22:16.58SpeedEvilIf the python code only uses 1% of the CPU though - that doesn't really matter.
22:17.06azaghalPython might be interesting for prototyping.
22:17.32SpeedEvilIf you're trying to do stuff with large volumes of data that change fast in python, you've probably lost.
22:17.35Kealso python is an abomination without proper typing
22:17.41azaghalThe main reason why Python is nice, though, is no need for recompilation :)
22:17.54ndnihilhigh fives ke
22:18.07SpeedEvilyou can compile moderately large programs on the FR.
22:18.07SpeedEvilIt's not _that_ slow.
22:18.32azaghalSpeedEvil: Well, I'd probably try to setup distcc here. (my desktop machine's rather nice)
22:19.07SpeedEvilIt's probably on the order of only 20-30* slower than a normal desktop
22:19.19SpeedEvilmaybe faster.
22:19.43SpeedEvilbut gcc can do quite a large file in a second even still.
22:19.52SpeedEvilespecially if you're using make the right way.
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22:21.41SpeedEvilKe: that's why you use an external keyboard.
22:22.12flecktorhmm
22:22.19Ke!
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22:22.33flecktorwhich of the two has agile gui development?
22:23.00flecktorsince i only  worked with swing and delphi
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22:31.04flecktorthanks for all the answers. have a nice day
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