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| 00:10.58 | ndnihil | blu3: why would the video chipset care what kind of SD card you use? |
| 00:12.16 | unknown_lamer | ndnihil: the glamo is also the sd controller |
| 00:12.23 | ndnihil | ah |
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| 00:58.17 | johnsu01 | so.. commenting out OccupyResource(CPU), would that stop the phone from waking up when there is an incoming call? |
| 01:05.23 | johnsu01 | this is so strange, something just obviously broke severely |
| 01:05.32 | johnsu01 | trying to delete a message now just hangs |
| 01:06.54 | *** join/#openmoko Defiant- (i=erik@c168233.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 01:07.10 | johnsu01 | and Messages isn't showing any |
| 01:07.21 | johnsu01 | it's clearly having trouble getting at the sim card now for some reason |
| 01:11.49 | Blu3 | time to reboot it |
| 01:14.01 | *** join/#openmoko Yanroy (n=rdm@68-118-226-15.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 01:15.23 | Yanroy | hi all... |
| 01:15.35 | Yanroy | I'm currently running 2008.10, IIRC... I haven't upgraded in forever |
| 01:15.39 | Yanroy | I'm thinking of re-flashing |
| 01:15.51 | Yanroy | is OM2009 the image of choice for that, or should I stick to 2008.12? |
| 01:15.56 | Yanroy | I use it as my daily phone |
| 01:16.04 | *** join/#openmoko ChandleWEi (n=chandle@218.242.153.185) |
| 01:16.20 | Yanroy | the thing that's currently pissing me off is it stops receiving SMS after a while... anything that fixes that issue will make me happy, really |
| 01:16.48 | *** part/#openmoko ChandleWEi (n=chandle@218.242.153.185) |
| 01:18.21 | Blu3 | you really should update :) |
| 01:18.36 | Blu3 | a lot of new bugs^H^H^Hfeatures have been added and old bugs fixed |
| 01:19.15 | Yanroy | I'm sure :) |
| 01:19.28 | Yanroy | is flashing the preferred way of making such a jump or would opkg be able to upgrade me? |
| 01:19.44 | Yanroy | also, if I back up my contacts, will they still work in the new version? |
| 01:19.48 | Yanroy | retyping them all would be a PITA |
| 01:20.09 | Blu3 | your contacts and messages are still stored on the sim card |
| 01:20.18 | Blu3 | so reflashing wouldn't wipe them |
| 01:20.58 | johnsu01 | Blu3: that was immediately after a fresh reboot |
| 01:20.59 | Blu3 | opkg is really only for those of stout temperament ;) i recommend flashing 2009 |
| 01:21.26 | Blu3 | john, gotta let it settle and get gsm all up and running |
| 01:21.48 | johnsu01 | Blu3: I've been using the phone successfully for 2+ months |
| 01:21.54 | Blu3 | the FR & frameworkd aren't all that super fast at doing that |
| 01:21.58 | johnsu01 | I understand how it's supposed to work, but something has gone suddenly wrong |
| 01:22.18 | johnsu01 | I don't mean immediately after it booted, I just mean I didn't do anything else between the time of reboot and that |
| 01:22.19 | Yanroy | Blu3: no, some of my contacts are on the SIM, but most are in the phone's memorry |
| 01:22.32 | Blu3 | after booting, wait until after your carrier and signal strength show up before trying to load messages |
| 01:22.38 | Yanroy | Blu3: so you recommend 2009? it's stable enough? |
| 01:22.40 | johnsu01 | Blu3: yes I did that |
| 01:22.45 | Blu3 | hmm |
| 01:22.51 | Yanroy | heh... that bug hasn't been fixed yet? |
| 01:22.59 | Blu3 | i'm on -unstable as of this morning, it's working for me |
| 01:23.11 | johnsu01 | Blu3: I'm on testing, and have made no changes, which is why I'm baffled here |
| 01:23.18 | johnsu01 | I'm trying a different sim |
| 01:23.24 | Yanroy | wonders if he can remember how to flash it |
| 01:23.33 | Blu3 | yanroy, i'm not aware of how they would be stored in fone memory. it could be but it's not something i know of |
| 01:23.43 | Blu3 | testing < unstable |
| 01:24.05 | johnsu01 | testing has been fine for me for months |
| 01:24.11 | Yanroy | Blu3: it's stored in vcard format in a hidden file or folder (can't remember) in the home directory |
| 01:24.17 | Blu3 | yanroy it works well enough for me, i use it daily both as fone and for texting |
| 01:24.24 | Yanroy | k |
| 01:24.28 | Blu3 | save your home directory then |
| 01:24.36 | Yanroy | I've been toughing it out with the old release, so presumably the new one will only be better :) |
| 01:24.47 | Yanroy | Blu3: what you've said makes me worried the new release won't be able to read the old file |
| 01:25.05 | Blu3 | i can't offer any pro or con in that regard |
| 01:25.19 | Blu3 | other than vcard is simple flat text |
| 01:25.34 | Yanroy | yeah |
| 01:31.21 | Yanroy | should I install a new uboot? |
| 01:32.36 | *** join/#openmoko rooly (n=rooly@ip70-188-121-225.lf.br.cox.net) |
| 01:32.38 | Blu3 | y'know, i haven't given that a thought. my current u-boot works good |
| 01:33.36 | Yanroy | hmm |
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| 03:56.21 | Yanroy | hi guys... |
| 03:56.32 | Yanroy | I'm trying to flash my GSM firmware |
| 03:56.39 | Yanroy | I imaged the SD card and booted from it |
| 03:56.55 | Yanroy | something briefly scrolled by and all I caught was "loading legacy kernel" |
| 03:56.58 | Yanroy | then it went blank... |
| 03:57.06 | Yanroy | it's been blank (but backlight on) for about half an hour |
| 03:57.16 | Yanroy | the wiki says it should only take 6 mins... did something go wrong? |
| 03:57.24 | Yanroy | I'm kinda afraid to interrupt it |
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| 04:29.15 | CIA-53 | openmoko: 03werner * r5121 10/trunk/gta02-core/docs/kicad-wishlist: Removed text alignment. Jean-Pierre beat us to it :-) |
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| 04:48.23 | CIA-53 | openmoko: 03rehar * r5122 10/trunk/gta02-core/components/STATUS: Review of 74x1g125, 74x2g126, exc24cb102u, emh4 and varistor |
| 04:55.16 | Yanroy | hi all... have any of you used this paroli thing? |
| 04:55.19 | Yanroy | I can't make it work |
| 04:55.41 | Yanroy | looking at the faq, I've been able to get the settings window to come up and that seems to work, but the main app itself doesn't do anything |
| 04:56.54 | Yanroy | ok, I take that back... after it suspended and came back, it works now |
| 04:59.00 | *** join/#openmoko ljp (n=lpotter@218.185.108.156) |
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| 05:05.15 | Yanroy | erm... this paroli thing does not seem to be an improvement |
| 05:05.23 | Yanroy | in fact, I'd characterize this upgrade as a disaster |
| 05:05.27 | Yanroy | where's all the stuff that was in 2008.10? |
| 05:06.23 | rooly | heehee |
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| 05:07.04 | Yanroy | ? |
| 05:07.27 | jmcnaught | Yanroy: do you mean all the apps? or just the phone related stuff? |
| 05:07.46 | Yanroy | I'm not sure what I mean |
| 05:07.48 | *** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@212-183-119-224.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 05:07.55 | Yanroy | I just want a functional phone |
| 05:08.02 | Yanroy | I had that before, except that it crashed about once a week |
| 05:08.07 | Yanroy | now I have nothing |
| 05:08.22 | jmcnaught | Yanroy: well, paroli and fso are getting close but they're not a final release yet |
| 05:08.45 | Yanroy | but it should be able to do things like send a text, right? |
| 05:08.59 | jmcnaught | yeah, that should work |
| 05:09.13 | Yanroy | well, I can't figure out how... |
| 05:09.28 | Yanroy | if I click SMS, I get a blank screen except for a plus button... plus button wants me to enter numbers |
| 05:09.34 | Yanroy | if I go to people, there's no way to text them |
| 05:09.48 | jmcnaught | under people, swipe a contact to the right |
| 05:10.08 | jmcnaught | the names are slideable to the right which gives you an option to text them |
| 05:10.51 | Yanroy | well shit... how was I supposed to figure that out? |
| 05:10.57 | Yanroy | I've been searching for a users guide for 15 minutes... |
| 05:11.18 | Yanroy | that does seem to work though :P |
| 05:11.22 | jmcnaught | yeah, it took me a while too |
| 05:11.37 | Yanroy | what's the trick to the keyboard? |
| 05:11.42 | jmcnaught | it's pretty hand once you know it's there.. makes things quick |
| 05:11.52 | Yanroy | it seems to not like me trying to scroll left and right to pick the match to what I typed... |
| 05:12.01 | Yanroy | also it chooses the matches pretty wrong :P |
| 05:12.25 | Yanroy | does it not suspend when on AC power? |
| 05:12.43 | jmcnaught | sorry, i don't know about the scrolling issue. i've found that the keyboard learns as you use it |
| 05:12.52 | jmcnaught | it shouldn't suspend but bugs are still being worked out |
| 05:13.15 | Yanroy | I'm not complaining that it isn't suspending, I'm just curious |
| 05:13.20 | Yanroy | cuz I haven't let it off the charger yet |
| 05:13.29 | Yanroy | I like the power button lighting up... |
| 05:13.34 | Yanroy | any idea what the colors mean? |
| 05:13.34 | jmcnaught | no harm in asking :) |
| 05:13.57 | jmcnaught | on the power button leds? |
| 05:14.04 | Yanroy | yes |
| 05:14.21 | jmcnaught | if i remember correctly, orange means charging, blue means fully charged |
| 05:14.28 | Yanroy | the on-screen battery icon doesn't seem to indicate charging, so I'm guessing the LEDs are the only way to tell |
| 05:14.34 | Yanroy | ok |
| 05:19.15 | Yanroy | hmm... the FR seems to have decided it is now eth1 instead of usb0 |
| 05:19.15 | Yanroy | wtf |
| 05:19.55 | PaulFertser | ljp: Hey, Lorn. Do you know that Nokia provides drivers for a cable that has nothing except wires inside? |
| 05:22.24 | Yanroy | jmcnaught: any idea if it's possible for me to salvage the contacts I backed up from 2008.10? |
| 05:22.48 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: eth1 is correct |
| 05:22.56 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: it is now using persistent MAC address. |
| 05:24.11 | Yanroy | does opkg still work like it used ot? |
| 05:24.22 | Yanroy | it says failed to download repository packages... |
| 05:24.40 | ljp | PaulFertser: ya, well.. thatts windows for ya |
| 05:25.58 | jmcnaught | Yanroy: sorry, that's something i haven't tried. i don't have a lot of contacts and i just keep them on the sim |
| 05:26.21 | Yanroy | does this paroli thing give you the option of keeping them on the SIM? |
| 05:26.24 | jmcnaught | Yanroy: opkg should work.. can you ping? |
| 05:26.26 | Yanroy | or perhaps they're always on the sim? |
| 05:26.35 | Yanroy | yes, I can ping, and magically (to me) DNS resolution even works |
| 05:26.38 | PaulFertser | ljp: and they don't provide a way to download older version and the newest version doesn't work with win2000 or winxp (without sp2). Nuts |
| 05:26.42 | Yanroy | no need to set up resolv.conf |
| 05:27.21 | jmcnaught | Yanroy: see, at least some stuff is improving, eh? i'm not sure what your opkg problem would be |
| 05:27.28 | Yanroy | hmm |
| 05:27.33 | Yanroy | it's giving me 404s |
| 05:27.38 | Yanroy | so I'm guessing the URL is wrong, or the repo is down |
| 05:27.59 | jmcnaught | i'd try it myself, but my phone is away getting buzz-fixed |
| 05:28.14 | PaulFertser | ljp: the fact is that the driver is actually needed because despite it's presented as a cable driver on site and in folder name it's "; Nokia USB Host Driver" inside the inf. |
| 05:28.14 | Yanroy | huh? |
| 05:28.18 | Yanroy | buzz fixed? |
| 05:29.00 | jmcnaught | Yanroy: there's a program to fix your phone if you've (or the people you're calling) hear an annoying buzz |
| 05:29.13 | Yanroy | ah... |
| 05:29.18 | Yanroy | perhaps I should investigate this... |
| 05:29.23 | Yanroy | you have to send it away? |
| 05:29.40 | PaulFertser | ljp: and that is not windows fault. Windows fault is that they don't work oob with standard CDC ACM devices (which nokia phones are). Nokia fault is mis-representing the driver and inability to download an older version. |
| 05:30.00 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: you can do it yourself |
| 05:30.12 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: or find a fellow SMD soldering guy. |
| 05:30.30 | Yanroy | PaulFertser: eh, I'm an ECE... I've done my fair share of SMD work. is there info on the fix on the wiki somewhere? |
| 05:30.34 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: all phones have buzz, but it depends on conditions (cell network, signal quality etc.) |
| 05:30.41 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: sure |
| 05:30.52 | jmcnaught | Yanroy: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buzz_Fix |
| 05:31.09 | Yanroy | thx |
| 05:31.18 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: change one easily accessible 0402 R and solder a big tantalum cap nearby, that's all. |
| 05:31.32 | PaulFertser | Easy :) |
| 05:31.35 | Yanroy | heh... I've probably got the parts on my desk |
| 05:31.41 | Psi_ | heh |
| 05:31.58 | Yanroy | seems like a good excuse to buy the hot air reflow station I've had my eye on |
| 05:32.10 | PaulFertser | :))) |
| 05:32.27 | PaulFertser | Do you need a hot air reflow to dismount one 0402 R? |
| 05:32.31 | Yanroy | no |
| 05:32.38 | Yanroy | I mean... yes? ;) |
| 05:32.39 | ndnihil | you can make a suitable hot air gun for $20'ish |
| 05:33.21 | Yanroy | right... but we can just neglect to tell my gf that I can do this work without a hot air reflow station |
| 05:33.33 | ndnihil | :) |
| 05:33.47 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: while we're at it, you can also fix the famous #1024 bug (random/continious network recamping in certain conditions). That requires full disassembly (easy), dismounting a can (easy), changing one 0805 cap to a 22uF one. |
| 05:33.57 | Yanroy | that's a hw bug? |
| 05:34.00 | Yanroy | I thought it was sw |
| 05:34.01 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: yes |
| 05:34.04 | Yanroy | huh |
| 05:34.09 | Yanroy | I haven't seen it since I upgraded |
| 05:34.14 | PaulFertser | Cap is conveniently located. |
| 05:34.18 | Yanroy | I'll gladly fix it though |
| 05:34.20 | Yanroy | got a link? |
| 05:34.26 | Yanroy | or the search terms? |
| 05:34.40 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: there's a software workaround to disable deep sleep mode, it adds about 8mA to your standby current. |
| 05:35.03 | Yanroy | battery already goes dry in about 20 hours... I want all the power savings I can ge |
| 05:35.05 | Yanroy | *get |
| 05:35.05 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: look for the recent messages on hardware ML archive. Or wait, i'll provide you a link. |
| 05:35.23 | Yanroy | awesome, thx |
| 05:35.30 | Yanroy | I've been way out of the loop on OM development lately |
| 05:35.37 | Yanroy | I've got probably 5000 unread ML messages |
| 05:36.13 | Yanroy | so how does this infamous in-call volume control work? and should I really install that sound scenario file thing as mentioned in the OM2009 wiki page? |
| 05:36.14 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: "Bug #1024 (oscillating re-camping), a possible solution" |
| 05:36.35 | Yanroy | k |
| 05:36.56 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: paroli uses a dirty trick and controls volume with calypso at command (indirectly, via FSO of course). |
| 05:37.15 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: probably you'd like to do a bass fix too, no? |
| 05:37.28 | Yanroy | hey, if it's fixable, I'll do it |
| 05:37.39 | Yanroy | maybe I'll end up with a phone that doesn't get me laughed at |
| 05:37.41 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: wiki/GTA02_bass_fix |
| 05:37.47 | Yanroy | on those rare occasions I can hear them laughing :P |
| 05:38.11 | jmcnaught | Yanroy: if you've been out of the loop for a while, you may also need to upgrade the GSM firmware. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM/Flashing |
| 05:38.22 | Psi_ | speaking of working phones, anyone got a working shr gta01 build? |
| 05:38.25 | PaulFertser | Yep, right. |
| 05:38.34 | PaulFertser | Psi_: just yesterday it was built. |
| 05:38.43 | PaulFertser | Psi_: with the newest kernel btw. |
| 05:39.06 | PaulFertser | Psi_: enjoy unstable (though no regressions found yet). |
| 05:39.17 | Yanroy | is there a magical UI to the volume control? I can't figure out how to change it. there's a little "100" in the corner that I"m guessing is related... |
| 05:40.27 | Psi_ | ah, new build on the 11th |
| 05:40.50 | Yanroy | notes that the clock just changed... does it finally update off the cell network? |
| 05:40.57 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: if you're goind to do a bass fix in a way similar to what i did i suggest placing the caps a bit farther from BT antenna. And additional shielding is mandatory (i used candy paper for that). |
| 05:41.07 | Yanroy | lol |
| 05:41.09 | Yanroy | k |
| 05:41.10 | Psi_ | i tried the one on the 3rd and it didnt even get to X |
| 05:41.14 | Yanroy | does BT work? |
| 05:41.23 | Psi_ | downloads new one |
| 05:41.25 | Yanroy | I've never had a phone with BT before... it'd be nice to be able to get a headset |
| 05:42.18 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: can you provide any information on updating from the cell network? We don't know how to do that. Only useless info about timezone (it's not full, only distance to GMT iirc). |
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| 05:43.26 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: with some headsets. FSO supports BT, there's information on the wiki about it. Not very polished but it works given you have a compatible headset. And the headset that works perfectly with my laptop doesn't output any sound with my FR, so you need to check with FR itself. |
| 05:43.38 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: better to borrow a bt headset from someone for testing. |
| 05:44.10 | CIA-53 | openmoko: 03werner * r5123 10/trunk/gta02-core/components/ (gta02-core-expanded.lib gta02-core.lib sc32442.lib): |
| 05:44.10 | CIA-53 | openmoko: Updated sc32442.lib to use right-adjusted text for pseudo pins. |
| 05:44.10 | CIA-53 | openmoko: Requires KiCad revision 1812 or later ! |
| 05:45.16 | Yanroy | k |
| 05:45.26 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: so for now time updates from GPS or NTP. |
| 05:45.34 | Yanroy | ah, I see |
| 05:45.44 | Yanroy | that must be it then... it updated shortly after I plugged it into my computer |
| 05:46.02 | Yanroy | I'm not sure what kind of info you're looking for re: updating from cell network. that's not my area of expertise |
| 05:46.19 | Yanroy | in fact, pretty much everything I know about GSM and the like I've learned via openmoko |
| 05:46.34 | Yanroy | I'm sure I don't have any knowledge you don't |
| 05:46.53 | PaulFertser | :))) it was meant as a way to say that neither me nor FSO developers know how to do it. |
| 05:47.04 | Yanroy | hmm.. |
| 05:47.42 | Yanroy | I always assumed it was part of the GSM protcol and accessible with an AT command, but I have no evidence to back that up... it's just how I would do it if I were creating GSM |
| 05:48.33 | Yanroy | is there a browser and a terminal? |
| 05:48.46 | CIA-53 | openmoko: 03werner * r5124 10/trunk/gta02-core/components/sc32442.lib: Revert previous commit. Right adjustment confuses plotting. |
| 05:48.48 | PaulFertser | To me it looks that some networks sometimes send an informational message (probably sms) with current time information. |
| 05:49.21 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: have you already switched off paroli "full-screen" mode? |
| 05:50.17 | Yanroy | umm... no? |
| 05:50.41 | Yanroy | it looks like all SMS include the time sent in them |
| 05:50.57 | Yanroy | at least, even when the clock on my 2008.10 was all screwed up, the receive times on the messages was correct... |
| 05:51.10 | Yanroy | except for that one day when I received a bunch of garbage characters dated tomorrow |
| 05:51.18 | Yanroy | it was probably trying to warn me of my death or something |
| 05:52.32 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: you need to switch off "full-screen" to be able to switch windows, see illume homescreen etc. |
| 05:54.51 | Yanroy | I switched the profile to paroli-illume... nothing seems to have happened |
| 05:55.02 | PaulFertser | Restart paroli |
| 05:55.02 | Yanroy | I recall reading it takes a bit, but it's been like 2 mins at least |
| 05:55.10 | Yanroy | one does that how? |
| 05:55.21 | PaulFertser | You ask me as if i ever used paroli :I |
| 05:55.24 | PaulFertser | :D |
| 05:55.32 | Yanroy | lol |
| 05:55.33 | PaulFertser | I'd just kill it via ssh |
| 05:55.36 | Yanroy | you know a lot about the hardware |
| 05:55.47 | Yanroy | does it just restart itself automatically? |
| 05:56.06 | PaulFertser | No idea, depends on .xsession script obviously. |
| 05:57.14 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: i guess you know much more about hardware in general but yes, i know about some particular FR quirks. :) |
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| 06:00.08 | Yanroy | what gave you the idea I know more about hardware in general? |
| 06:01.46 | lindi- | PaulFertser: we just got a crazy idea yesterday. we can buy a huawei usb 3g stick, atmel AVR USB-capable microcontroller, keypad, one-line LCD and some 17670 li-ion batteries to make a really simple phone :-) |
| 06:02.09 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: you're an ECE, according to what you just told me :) And i'm not. I think i'm not a professional in any area. I know some ad-hoc programming, some ad-hoc electronics. Our university is not that good unfortunately :-/ |
| 06:02.24 | Yanroy | PaulFertser: ah... I had assumed you were also an ECE |
| 06:03.11 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: that said i can mostly read schematics of digital-ICs based devices and datasheets for that ICs :) |
| 06:03.15 | PaulFertser | lindi-: wow :) |
| 06:03.30 | Yanroy | there's a secret they don't want you to know though... if you're good at something, having a degree doesn't matter at all |
| 06:03.32 | PaulFertser | lindi-: AVR usb host? |
| 06:03.42 | *** join/#openmoko sudharsh (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 06:03.46 | lindi- | PaulFertser: yep |
| 06:03.53 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: i have a "magister' degree. |
| 06:04.01 | Yanroy | I kinda wish I hadn't bothered to go to college... I'm working a software engineer now, making the same as my friend who dropped out |
| 06:04.19 | Yanroy | I didn't major in CS because I already knew it going into college... I chose ECE instead cuz it was new |
| 06:04.40 | PaulFertser | lindi-: is any AVR capable of it? I haven't read anything like that yet. |
| 06:04.50 | lindi- | PaulFertser: my at90usbkey is, and it cost only 27 EUR |
| 06:05.09 | Psi_ | im guessing this huawei usb stick has all the datasheets available? |
| 06:05.10 | lindi- | PaulFertser: (it's a complete demo board with two flash chips, leds, buttons...) |
| 06:05.17 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: i enjoyed being in university because i meet my friends there. |
| 06:05.32 | PaulFertser | Psi_: not all but enough to make it call :) |
| 06:05.37 | Psi_ | ah |
| 06:05.46 | lindi- | PaulFertser: http://www.fourwalledcubicle.com/LUFA.php is the usb library, it has lots of examples |
| 06:05.50 | Psi_ | how big is the thing? |
| 06:06.17 | lindi- | Psi_: it'll fit inside a nokia 3210 case :) |
| 06:06.40 | Psi_ | :) |
| 06:06.48 | Yanroy | ah, got illume working now... |
| 06:06.51 | Yanroy | and it has a terminal |
| 06:06.53 | Yanroy | that's enough for tonight... |
| 06:06.56 | PaulFertser | lindi-: or cool, didn't know it supports host. Probably "CDC Host" is enough to get it going. |
| 06:07.09 | Yanroy | PaulFertser: thank you very much for your help. I'd have been completely stuck without you |
| 06:07.20 | Yanroy | jmcnaught: thank you too |
| 06:07.29 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: you're welcome, feel free to ping me on low-level issues. |
| 06:07.34 | lindi- | PaulFertser: yep |
| 06:07.38 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: (like bootloader kernel hardware etc) |
| 06:07.42 | Yanroy | ok |
| 06:07.48 | Yanroy | I'm sure I'll be back here before too long :) |
| 06:07.59 | Yanroy | good night all |
| 06:07.59 | lindi- | PaulFertser: the LUFA author is currently writing support for using usb bluetooth dongles with AVR |
| 06:08.03 | PaulFertser | Yanroy: night. |
| 06:08.11 | PaulFertser | Psi_: we're waiting for your status report btw. |
| 06:08.18 | lindi- | PaulFertser: so the dream is to have bluetooth headset support :-) |
| 06:08.29 | Psi_ | on yesterdays shr build? |
| 06:08.38 | PaulFertser | lindi-: mad project :))) |
| 06:08.40 | PaulFertser | Psi_: yes |
| 06:08.49 | Psi_ | checks download |
| 06:08.50 | lindi- | (probably very distant dream indeed) |
| 06:10.12 | PaulFertser | lindi-: and even without BT writing a dumb cellphone UI will require lots of efforts. |
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| 06:11.12 | Psi_ | i do like the AVR's the datasheets actually make sense :) |
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| 06:11.23 | lindi- | PaulFertser: if i'm mad enough i'll write it in spark ada |
| 06:11.40 | lindi- | (spark was liberated very recently) |
| 06:12.43 | Psi_ | carpc uses few AVR's for pc->car interface |
| 06:13.28 | lindi- | Psi_: it talks to some CAN bus? |
| 06:14.40 | Psi_ | na, i was too lazy to do CAN |
| 06:14.59 | ndnihil | psi: you make your own? |
| 06:15.04 | Psi_ | just 5v usart between the micros |
| 06:15.06 | ndnihil | <-- also an AVR fan |
| 06:15.14 | Psi_ | yeah, made it myself |
| 06:15.17 | ndnihil | nice |
| 06:15.23 | ndnihil | I ended up buying mine |
| 06:15.28 | *** join/#openmoko LuYu (n=whatever@118-160-164-56.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 06:15.37 | Psi_ | also got a serial + lan link from gararge into house so i can program it from inside |
| 06:15.42 | ndnihil | it spoofs itself as a cd changer and can be controlled from factory radio though, VAG specific |
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| 06:16.28 | Psi_ | nice |
| 06:16.35 | lindi- | Psi_: don't AVR people use SPI between AVRs? |
| 06:16.48 | ndnihil | going to hook the FR up to it eventually |
| 06:17.00 | Psi_ | id already written the usart protocol before i found out about how easy SPI was |
| 06:17.05 | lindi- | the best part is that I can program the AVR with freerunner |
| 06:17.26 | ndnihil | you ported avr-gcc to armv4t? |
| 06:17.33 | ndnihil | if so, where can I download? :) |
| 06:17.39 | Psi_ | ^ |
| 06:17.42 | ndnihil | avr-libc, etc... |
| 06:21.08 | lindi- | ndnihil: ported? debian has gcc-avr on the following platforms: alpha amd64 armel hppa i386 ia64 mips mipsel powerpc s390 sparc |
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| 06:21.26 | ndnihil | nice |
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| 06:21.58 | ndnihil | how about s/ported/packaged/ |
| 06:22.00 | ndnihil | :) |
| 06:22.09 | Psi_ | i really should try the debian install on my phone |
| 06:22.21 | ndnihil | it's kinda slow |
| 06:22.28 | ndnihil | not quite FDOM bad |
| 06:22.36 | ndnihil | but not quite "this can replace my laptop!" |
| 06:23.27 | ndnihil | some people say using swap helps |
| 06:23.33 | ndnihil | but that's going to shred your uSD card |
| 06:23.42 | Psi_ | if its slow on your gta02 i dont really want to think what its like on gta01 |
| 06:23.59 | PaulFertser | How's debian any slower than other distros? |
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| 06:24.40 | DocScrutinizer | ndnihil: nah, swap on SD is no probl for the card |
| 06:25.05 | Psi_ | its gunna use up its write cycles tho |
| 06:25.22 | ndnihil | I killed a regular SD card using it as swap on a ngw100 |
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| 06:27.47 | ndnihil | it behaved ok up until it died though |
| 06:28.05 | DocScrutinizer | you are the first one who achieved that. German mag c't did emonths *continuous* write-stress tests and didn't find a single failure for SD-cards |
| 06:28.10 | PaulFertser | ndnihil: can you please tell me how to "you can make a suitable hot air gun for $20'ish"? |
| 06:28.33 | ndnihil | could have been something else that killed it, but as best I can tell it was using it as swap |
| 06:28.37 | DocScrutinizer | s/emon/3mon/ |
| 06:28.54 | ndnihil | paul: you get one of those heat up solder suckers from radio shack |
| 06:29.07 | ndnihil | drill a small hole in the bulb and feed in some tubing |
| 06:29.25 | ndnihil | stick some steel wool or desoldering wick in the head |
| 06:29.34 | ndnihil | heat it up and blow in the tube |
| 06:29.42 | ndnihil | or you can hook it up to an aquarium pump |
| 06:29.58 | ndnihil | a valve on the aquarium pump helps regulate it |
| 06:30.26 | ndnihil | naturally the more flow the lower the heat |
| 06:30.30 | ndnihil | so you have to find a balance |
| 06:30.35 | ndnihil | hence the valve |
| 06:30.51 | ndnihil | I got lightheaded after blowing in the tube for a couple hours |
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| 06:31.45 | PaulFertser | `They must be very curious-looking creatures.' |
| 06:32.05 | ndnihil | http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062731 |
| 06:32.07 | ndnihil | one of those |
| 06:32.22 | ndnihil | the tip screws off, and you stuff some desoldering wick in there |
| 06:32.26 | ndnihil | as a heatsink |
| 06:32.41 | ndnihil | and make the hold at the very back of the bulb |
| 06:32.43 | ndnihil | less heat there |
| 06:32.58 | ndnihil | s/hold/hole/ |
| 06:33.09 | ndnihil | it's not ideal, but it works |
| 06:33.20 | ndnihil | want to make a new tip for my digitally controlled iron |
| 06:33.22 | PaulFertser | ndnihil: how do you heat it up? |
| 06:33.27 | ndnihil | you plug it in |
| 06:33.33 | PaulFertser | Ah, |
| 06:33.36 | PaulFertser | ok :) |
| 06:33.46 | ndnihil | its just a low end soldering iron with a funny head |
| 06:35.33 | PaulFertser | ndnihil: nice know-how :) |
| 06:35.37 | ndnihil | thanks :) |
| 06:36.33 | Psi_ | ok, 11th shr booting up now, see how far it gets |
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| 06:41.19 | PaulFertser | rereading Humpty Dumpty chapter http://www.sabian.org/Alice/lgchap06.htm |
| 06:43.53 | lindi- | http://www.3sellercentral.co.uk/download/IT%20Downloads/USB%20Modems/HUAWEI%20E169%20HSDPA%20USB%20Stick%20Product%20Description.pdf claims that even my huawei E169 already support voice |
| 06:44.17 | lindi- | they cite a really large number of GSM specs, i'm not quite sure which one describes how the audio stuff works |
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| 06:50.02 | Psi_ | ok, the 11th shr boots, which is an improvment :) but messages still crashes |
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| 06:52.13 | Psi_ | interesting, messages is working now |
| 06:52.25 | PaulFertser | Psi_: probably sim wasn't ready or smth |
| 06:52.27 | Psi_ | maybe it crashes if you click it before its finished reading the sim |
| 06:52.31 | Psi_ | heh yeah |
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| 06:59.32 | PaulFertser | Psi_: does gta01 have a recamping problem? |
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| 07:00.48 | Psi_ | what is recamping? |
| 07:00.53 | Psi_ | ive heard it on here a few times |
| 07:01.04 | Psi_ | never knew what it was |
| 07:02.20 | PaulFertser | Psi_: famous #1024 |
| 07:02.35 | PaulFertser | Psi_: when the cell drops out of network for no reason. |
| 07:02.46 | Psi_ | ah, cant say ive ever noticed that |
| 07:03.13 | Psi_ | just called the phone, voice seems to be all working |
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| 07:03.26 | Psi_ | speakerphone still has no mic tho |
| 07:03.33 | Psi_ | not that i ever use it |
| 07:03.52 | ndnihil | there's a speakerphone option now? |
| 07:04.02 | PaulFertser | Psi_: statefiles are the same, i guess. So something must be wrong with it. |
| 07:04.19 | PaulFertser | Psi_: probably it's done on purpose to avoid feedback and echo. |
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| 07:04.31 | Psi_ | yeah |
| 07:04.45 | Psi_ | i only use it when talking to automated systems, so i can see the buttons |
| 07:04.53 | Psi_ | and in that situation you dont need the mic anyway |
| 07:05.00 | PaulFertser | Exactly |
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| 07:06.14 | Psi_ | ndnihil: ya, button at the bottom called "speaker" when your on a call |
| 07:06.52 | ndnihil | handy |
| 07:06.57 | Psi_ | i guess with the name "speaker" and not "speakerphone" one could say the mic isnt supposed to work |
| 07:10.23 | Psi_ | ok, voice call in both directions and sms message tested |
| 07:10.34 | Psi_ | 11th gta01 shr build seems good |
| 07:11.15 | Psi_ | mm.. do love the speakers on gta01 |
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| 07:11.43 | Psi_ | stereo sounds good :) |
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| 07:26.00 | methril|work | morning |
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| 07:40.35 | PaulFertser | Psi_: suspend/resume works ok? |
| 07:40.48 | PaulFertser | Psi_: so, do you consider this latest kernel can be recommended to all gta01 users? |
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| 07:50.26 | Psi_ | i suspended and resumed it a few times and it worked |
| 07:50.33 | Psi_ | also called it while suspended and it woke up |
| 07:50.41 | Psi_ | so all is good so far |
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| 07:57.37 | PaulFertser | Psi_: kewl |
| 07:59.15 | Psi_ | keeps warning about low batt tho |
| 07:59.20 | Psi_ | even though its full |
| 07:59.46 | Psi_ | guessing thats because gta01 has no monitor IC in the battery like gta02 |
| 08:04.25 | PaulFertser | Psi_: doesn't it have a way to at least ADC battery voltage? |
| 08:06.00 | PaulFertser | Psi_: because if it does and it doesn't work, it's a regression. |
| 08:10.18 | Psi_ | the battery voltage display is missing |
| 08:10.33 | Psi_ | it was in the power options on older shr builds |
| 08:11.16 | *** join/#openmoko sudharsh__ (n=sudharsh@59.92.88.244) |
| 08:12.23 | PaulFertser | Psi_: can you investigate it? |
| 08:12.51 | Psi_ | i wouldn't know where to start |
| 08:13.06 | PaulFertser | Psi_: <-- "Start with pressing this button" |
| 08:13.45 | PaulFertser | Psi_: ls -la /sys/class/power_supply |
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| 08:16.17 | Psi_ | two entries battery and charger |
| 08:18.13 | Psi_ | both 755 and root:root |
| 08:18.23 | PaulFertser | Psi_: ls -l /sys/class/power_supply/battery obviously |
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| 08:19.14 | Psi_ | cat /sys/class/power_supply/battery/voltage_now gives 4195 |
| 08:19.24 | Psi_ | which im guessing is 4.195v |
| 08:19.45 | PaulFertser | Psi_: what else is there? |
| 08:20.03 | Psi_ | current_now device power present status subsystem type uevent voltage_now |
| 08:20.06 | ndnihil | woot, in that case I'm pushing 4,170V! |
| 08:20.12 | ndnihil | 4170000 |
| 08:20.13 | ndnihil | :) |
| 08:20.38 | PaulFertser | ndnihil: is it the same sysfs node on your gta01 with older kernel? |
| 08:20.49 | ndnihil | errr, yeah it's that one |
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| 08:20.54 | ndnihil | I swear |
| 08:21.05 | ndnihil | same node, gta02 |
| 08:21.13 | ndnihil | at any rate |
| 08:21.37 | PaulFertser | ndnihil: anyway it means gta01 driver is broken (wrong units used). I'll send a patch soon. |
| 08:22.05 | Psi_ | cat current_now gives -21 |
| 08:22.17 | Psi_ | 21mA charging im guessing |
| 08:22.40 | ndnihil | my current_now is 15000 |
| 08:23.08 | ndnihil | it's a fairly recent SHR unstable on gta02 |
| 08:23.09 | ndnihil | if that helps |
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| 08:23.27 | PaulFertser | All voltages, currents, charges, energies, time and temperatures in uV |
| 08:23.28 | Psi_ | 'cat uevent' gives some good info |
| 08:23.38 | PaulFertser | ndnihil: nope, i have gta02 here with the latest kernel obviously. |
| 08:24.16 | PaulFertser | Psi_: i'd say discharging. |
| 08:24.22 | PaulFertser | Psi_: goes to gsm modem i guess. |
| 08:24.32 | Psi_ | its pluged into the pc atm |
| 08:25.00 | PaulFertser | Psi_: doesn't matter. The charging is over and GSM slowly sucks power directly from battery. |
| 08:25.37 | Psi_ | if its microvolts then there is a bug, as voltage_now is 4177 which if uV would be 4mV |
| 08:25.44 | PaulFertser | Psi_: exactly |
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| 08:30.18 | Psi_ | http://pastebin.com/m27526853 |
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| 08:31.37 | takeiteasy | hi |
| 08:31.49 | PaulFertser | Psi_: thanks a lot for feedback! |
| 08:31.54 | takeiteasy | i am looking for the address for feeds for shr-testing |
| 08:32.05 | takeiteasy | do you guys happen to know where they are ? |
| 08:32.08 | PaulFertser | Psi_: do you think SHR uses the write nodes to read voltage and current but it's just wrong units? |
| 08:32.33 | PaulFertser | takeiteasy: yes |
| 08:33.19 | PaulFertser | takeiteasy: http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/ipk/ |
| 08:33.48 | takeiteasy | ok thx |
| 08:34.17 | leila | Quick question, is the current shipping model still limited to 1 day battery life ? |
| 08:35.36 | PaulFertser | leila: no |
| 08:35.54 | PaulFertser | leila: all gta02 MP models can survive more than 100 hours in suspend. |
| 08:36.22 | leila | Got any links with that ? |
| 08:37.43 | PaulFertser | leila: not yet, i need to find that. Search for recent mails from Daniel about testing his #1024-fixed device. He got 130-140 hrs. |
| 08:37.52 | Psi_ | PaulFertser: it does seem to make sence, ie, i got 4170 volts on charge and -30 current when pluged in over usb. Then when unplugged 4120 volts and 290 current |
| 08:38.17 | Psi_ | err, sorry theres an error in that |
| 08:38.43 | Psi_ | i got -180 current when unplugged |
| 08:38.56 | Psi_ | then when i plugged it back in i got positive 290 |
| 08:39.00 | leila | PaulFertser, if I understand correctly this Daniel worked his magic and updated some software to get 130-140 hours ? |
| 08:39.07 | PaulFertser | Psi_: inverted sign? |
| 08:39.57 | PaulFertser | leila: no, Daniel replaced a capacitor to fix the infamous #1024 recamping bug. But not everybody experiences recamping anyway. Other than that, he has no magic hardware or software mods. |
| 08:40.13 | Psi_ | it was -30 to start with, (pluged into usb). then went -275 negative when i unpluged it, and then +180 when i plugged it back in |
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| 08:41.11 | leila | PaulFertser, Soldering on your own phone, sounds interesting and risky |
| 08:41.28 | *** part/#openmoko ChandleWEi (n=chandle@218.242.153.185) |
| 08:41.28 | PaulFertser | Psi_: i can assure you that it doesn't charge all the time even when plugged in usb. |
| 08:41.45 | Psi_ | yeah, it does seem to jump around quite a bit |
| 08:41.50 | PaulFertser | leila: i've recently proved that some sort of that work can be done even with unsuitable tools. |
| 08:42.08 | PaulFertser | leila: https://paulfertser.is-a-geek.org/files/useless_buzzfix/ . |
| 08:42.51 | PaulFertser | leila: anyway, even if you disable deep sleep you'll get around 70hrs for sure. And that's much more than 24hrs you're talking about. |
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| 08:43.47 | leila | yup, that would make it a usable device ;) |
| 08:44.11 | PaulFertser | leila: i mean no hardware mods necessary at all to get 70hrs suspend time. |
| 08:44.34 | PaulFertser | leila: even if you experience recamping. |
| 08:45.11 | Psi_ | gta01 last time i checked only got <24 hours |
| 08:45.21 | Psi_ | ill test again with this latest build |
| 08:45.25 | PaulFertser | Psi_: even suspended? |
| 08:45.28 | Psi_ | yep |
| 08:45.32 | PaulFertser | Psi_: :( |
| 08:45.49 | Psi_ | it should be better than gta02 due to less cpu speed |
| 08:46.04 | PaulFertser | Psi_: too many leaks in there... Probably some can be fixed but i asked Werner yesterday, he says nobody tried to analise or implement that. |
| 08:46.32 | PaulFertser | Psi_: and by fixed i mean change some pullups/downs from 1k to 10k and stuff like that. |
| 08:46.52 | Psi_ | are they software controllable from 1k to 10k? |
| 08:47.40 | PaulFertser | Psi_: probably there're still "unused modules powered through gpio that should have been tri-stated" issues, those can be fixed (but one needs to find a particular example first). |
| 08:47.55 | PaulFertser | Psi_: and no, resistance of 0402 parts is not software-controllable. |
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| 08:48.13 | Psi_ | yeah, id never heard of a software pullup that had options for resistance |
| 08:48.25 | PaulFertser | Psi_: and this time it's hardware |
| 08:48.34 | PaulFertser | Psi_: i'm talking about hardware pullups |
| 08:48.37 | Psi_ | ya |
| 08:49.12 | Psi_ | to limit the life to 24hours when suspended, they must be pretty big leaks or lots of little ones |
| 08:49.17 | PaulFertser | Psi_: and of course you heard about controllable resistance. You can drive your AVR gpio "weak" to use it as input or "strong" to use as output. Or tri-state. |
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| 08:49.32 | leila | PaulFertser, Is the freerunner the gta02 pm you spoke of ? |
| 08:49.40 | Psi_ | ya, avrs have pullups you can turn on/off |
| 08:49.41 | PaulFertser | Psi_: i wish someone who has the hardware can look into it... |
| 08:49.50 | Psi_ | think they are quite high tho, like 50k |
| 08:49.52 | PaulFertser | leila: freerunner==gta02 |
| 08:50.23 | PaulFertser | leila: MP==mass production |
| 08:50.56 | leila | ah ;) |
| 08:51.06 | Psi_ | by hardware you mean test equipment? |
| 08:52.16 | leila | Just asking since I need a new phone and I like to support OS, but then I want a phone that I can actually use |
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| 08:59.00 | leila | Also, freerunner seems the appropriate choice since further evolution of the phone has been iced |
| 08:59.08 | PBeck | ahoi |
| 09:05.04 | nullix | when a non-evolution becomes an advantage, i didn't think it could been seen that way :-) |
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| 09:08.17 | PaulFertser | leila: if you want a phone, buy something else. I'd say freerunner is still more of a development problem than a phone. Though i use it as my only cellphone for half a year now. |
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| 09:08.59 | PaulFertser | Psi_: at least those who have gta01 themselves. And can desolder 0402 to cut supply to different units. |
| 09:09.08 | leila | PaulFertser, let me just say that I want a phone and something cool. And terminals are cool |
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| 09:09.28 | PaulFertser | leila: can you do little bash scripting e.g.? |
| 09:09.36 | PaulFertser | leila: any programming experience? |
| 09:09.37 | leila | <-- Linux user |
| 09:09.44 | leila | <-- application develope |
| 09:09.45 | leila | r |
| 09:09.51 | nullix | it can be a usable phone if you manage to maintain two OS on it, one stable and one unstable |
| 09:10.03 | PaulFertser | leila: ok, then you'll probably like FR. |
| 09:10.12 | Psi_ | yeah, if anyone does a list of 0402 mods to gta01 i can do em |
| 09:10.18 | Psi_ | i do smt stuff all the time |
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| 09:11.14 | PaulFertser | Psi_: why don't you try it yourself then? It's easy: take out the battery, connect a lab power supply through amp-meter. Then measure the current in various modes... |
| 09:11.20 | leila | also it would replace the "little" Nokia |
| 09:11.43 | PaulFertser | Psi_: then look at the schematics and try to cut current paths one by one. |
| 09:12.33 | PaulFertser | leila: don't forget that FR doesn't support EDGE, only plain GPRS. |
| 09:12.57 | PaulFertser | leila: and you need buzz-fixed version (or do buzzfix by other means later). |
| 09:13.50 | leila | PaulFertser, it is listed as agprs in the specs ? |
| 09:14.02 | PaulFertser | Psi_: and most current paths have some 0R so you cut it by desoldering. You even can solder wires there and measure current to that different device parts. |
| 09:14.27 | PaulFertser | leila: AGPS -- assisted gps, downloading almanac and ephemeris from the internet. |
| 09:15.00 | leila | yes, but I understood that agps was good enough to know where you are ... *research* |
| 09:15.29 | Psi_ | ill have to have a look at the circuit diagram |
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| 09:16.30 | PaulFertser | Psi_: and if you find 1k pullups/down there, change to 10k, 1k with 3.3V makes 3.3mA all the time, you know :))) |
| 09:18.07 | Psi_ | ya |
| 09:18.25 | Psi_ | 10k is probably a bit low as well |
| 09:18.36 | Psi_ | 27k would be fine |
| 09:18.40 | PaulFertser | Sure |
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| 09:31.08 | leila | Ok the new gizmo should be on its way ;) |
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| 10:28.49 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rf8c07256fad7 10/fsousaged/src/plugins/controller/plugin.vala: fsousaged: send system action 'resume' after resuming |
| 10:30.00 | PaulFertser | Psi_: btw, cursory look doesn't reveal many (i found only one) 1k pullups... |
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| 10:31.28 | PaulFertser | Psi_: most other places have 100k so it's safe... |
| 10:32.35 | Psi_ | ok |
| 10:37.23 | PaulFertser | Psi_: to me only R1701 looks suspicious... Probably i looked wrong on misinterpreted the scheme. But i can't see anything obviously outright wrong that makes gta01 so power hungry. :-/ |
| 10:38.04 | SpeedEvil | in what sense do you mean |
| 10:38.11 | SpeedEvil | (power hnungry) |
| 10:38.32 | SpeedEvil | or ratehr - circumstances\ |
| 10:39.30 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03luca 07framework * rbd273ff85f10 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): |
| 10:39.30 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: Improve frameworkd configuration example and dbus configuration |
| 10:39.30 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: [PATCH 1/5] Gypsy belongs to the freedesktop tree in D-Bus frameworkd.conf |
| 10:39.30 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: [PATCH 2/5] conf/example/frameworkd.conf: adjust log_level use |
| 10:39.30 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: [PATCH 3/5] conf/example/frameworkd.conf: simplify log_to documentation |
| 10:39.33 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: [PATCH 4/5] conf/example/frameworkd.conf: adjust disable use |
| 10:39.35 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: [PATCH 5/5] conf/example/frameworkd.conf: fix English typos |
| 10:39.54 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: where are the power leaks? Why it works from battery less than FR? |
| 10:40.19 | SpeedEvil | no - under what circumstances do you mean it uses lots of power |
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| 10:40.39 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: general use. I'm told that with default settings it works for about 5 hours with backlight off. |
| 10:41.02 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: and about 4 with on. |
| 10:41.09 | SpeedEvil | that seems about right |
| 10:41.17 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: and Psi_ says that it lasts for less than 24h in suspend. |
| 10:41.47 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: nobody sure why. There might be some software flaws even and in that case they should be fixed. But someone with device and skills needs to investigate it... |
| 10:41.51 | SpeedEvil | Suspend is what CPU state? |
| 10:42.01 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: suspend to ram |
| 10:42.10 | PaulFertser | I'm not sure how's that state called. |
| 10:42.12 | SpeedEvil | yes - I mean - what CPU condition. |
| 10:42.20 | SpeedEvil | CPU idle, or 'off' |
| 10:42.33 | SpeedEvil | CPU 'off' - with RAM alive shoud use fractions of a milliamp |
| 10:42.34 | PaulFertser | I've never seen SoC datasheet. That's the state when CPU doesn't run. |
| 10:42.42 | SpeedEvil | K |
| 10:42.45 | SpeedEvil | there are severl |
| 10:42.51 | SpeedEvil | with widely disparate power usages |
| 10:42.52 | PaulFertser | In that state gta02 lives for more than 130hrs with gsm on. |
| 10:43.10 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * ref6509a12201 10/etc/dbus-1/system.d/frameworkd.conf: frameworkd.conf: make it work on newer dbus versions that are non-permissive (aka: paranoid) by default |
| 10:43.10 | SpeedEvil | Whatt does software have to do to recover from this state |
| 10:43.31 | SpeedEvil | Does it start out by a 'normal' boot - which transitions into recovery from RAM? |
| 10:44.08 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: the CPU is turned on by some external (or internal, read RTC) event, then it jumps to bootloader. Bootloader discovers it's actually resume, does minimal preparations and jumps to the relevant kernel resume address. |
| 10:44.26 | SpeedEvil | What I thought. |
| 10:44.39 | SpeedEvil | Ok - that should indeed - if stuff is setup right - last ages. |
| 10:44.44 | PaulFertser | That doesn't explain excessive power consumption though ;) |
| 10:45.07 | SpeedEvil | there i the audio amp - but I would imagine tthat's been checked |
| 10:45.42 | PaulFertser | Well, it should go to suspend according to the code. But i can't check anything directly because i don't have gta01. |
| 10:46.36 | SpeedEvil | I - hopefully - should have a bit of time free iin the next couple of weeks - the garden is getting to a state where I'm winning against some of the weeds. |
| 10:46.38 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: and no, probably nobody checked how much it consumes in suspend. |
| 10:46.50 | SpeedEvil | I did - but that wa back in 2007.2 times |
| 10:47.45 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: amp in particular or the whole system? |
| 10:47.45 | SpeedEvil | the audio amp - if not turned off uses 30mA in suspend |
| 10:47.45 | SpeedEvil | in off |
| 10:47.45 | takeiteasy | hi everybody |
| 10:47.45 | SpeedEvil | so I assume it'd be the same in suspend unless turned off |
| 10:47.46 | takeiteasy | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:47.50 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: can you explain me what's the fun in caring about one's garden? |
| 10:47.54 | takeiteasy | an unanswered message with shr-testing |
| 10:48.01 | takeiteasy | and that's pretty annoying |
| 10:48.55 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/ - recently - March - mum died, and I inherited it. I'm trying to keep it in a sane state, rather than simply leaving it to ruin. |
| 10:49.16 | takeiteasy | how do you get rid of this behavior please ? |
| 10:50.06 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: as a more general point, I'm trying to tidy up the house externals so I can leave them alone for 20 years or so. :) |
| 10:50.46 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: i see. Sorry. |
| 10:50.59 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r17c464bd41ae 10/fsousaged/ (configure.ac data/fsousaged.conf): fsousaged: install dbus configuration file |
| 10:51.32 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: anyway if you need any help in reading/understanding/tweaking kernel code, i'm ready to assist. |
| 10:51.42 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: hopefully |
| 10:51.55 | SpeedEvil | Today I'm going out killing. |
| 10:51.59 | SpeedEvil | (weeds) |
| 10:52.25 | PaulFertser | takeiteasy: use shr-unstable? |
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| 10:56.26 | PaulFertser | Psi_: probably i'd cut all consumers from PCF50606 first (there're R1715-R1719 and R1722 for that) and then checked if suspend current is ok ( <10mA with GSM turned off by AT@POFF command ). If not, i'd investigate that first. Werner's gpio utility is helpful to know (and change) the state of SoC pins. |
| 10:57.37 | PaulFertser | Psi_: with that you're supposed to get reasonable current while running by ensuring all GPIO that are connected to unpowered stuff are tri-stated or input. |
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| 10:58.26 | PaulFertser | Psi_: there're quite some testpoints that will help you to understand what's going on in suspend too. |
| 10:58.42 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: do you find my "plan" reasonable? |
| 10:58.57 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: in pprinciple yes, though I've not looked deeply at the schematic |
| 10:59.13 | Psi_ | yeah, ill have to look into it |
| 10:59.30 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: i haven't too. Do you think you will be able to spot something outright wrong there? ;) |
| 10:59.32 | Psi_ | ive not looked at the gta02 schmatics at all |
| 10:59.47 | PaulFertser | (quite possible you'll see it because i'm not EE at all) |
| 10:59.55 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: I mean - it'd be required to find the points to poke |
| 11:00.21 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: Digital stuff isn't _that_ bad. It's when it gets analog/high-speed/RF that it gets nasty |
| 11:00.27 | Psi_ | ^ |
| 11:00.38 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: fortunately gta01 doesn't have that many parts. And power management is supposed to be done by one PMU IC. |
| 11:00.54 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 11:00.57 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: afaik RF stuff wasn't changed at all. |
| 11:01.16 | SpeedEvil | I was meaning your point on 'I'm not an EE' |
| 11:01.41 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:01.41 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: some parts of RF stuff was inherited from FIC even. |
| 11:05.33 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: (nasty EE stuff) of course :) |
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| 11:14.55 | Psi_ | ok, just wired gta01 up to the dmm |
| 11:15.06 | Psi_ | lets see just how much it draws in suspend |
| 11:16.37 | PaulFertser | Psi_: wow, you're not one of those who talk a lot and does nothing :) Great, gta01 has chances ;) |
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| 11:17.47 | Psi_ | wiring it up isnt exactly hard |
| 11:17.52 | Psi_ | some wires and tape :) |
| 11:19.03 | PaulFertser | Yep, it was funnier to measure consumption on hx4700, where we had to make a wood dummy with terminals (made of nails) because there're about 7 wires to connect and terminals on device are not easily accessible :) |
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| 11:19.35 | Psi_ | lol |
| 11:22.13 | Psi_ | ok, 52mA in suspend with jumps to 82mA every so often |
| 11:22.18 | Psi_ | kinda need to use the scope i think |
| 11:22.56 | Psi_ | 52mA / 1200mAh = 23hours |
| 11:23.06 | Psi_ | sounds about right |
| 11:23.50 | PaulFertser | Psi_: GSM turns off at higher voltage than the battery minimal allowed btw. |
| 11:24.15 | Psi_ | im running it off its battery |
| 11:25.19 | PaulFertser | Psi_: have you turned off GSM beforehand? |
| 11:25.35 | PaulFertser | Psi_: by using AT@POFF command |
| 11:25.37 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07fso-monitord * reb8fb32d52d1 10/src/device.vala: Removed apm from PowerSupply Devices |
| 11:25.38 | Psi_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:25.50 | PaulFertser | (there's no other way to do that on gta01) |
| 11:26.10 | Psi_ | whats the command to send at commands ? |
| 11:26.16 | PaulFertser | Psi_: mickeyterm |
| 11:27.11 | PaulFertser | Psi_: and btw s3c-gpio is pre-installed on SHR, so you can freely use it to check GPIO state at any given time (when the system is running of course). |
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| 11:31.01 | PaulFertser | Psi_: i encourage you to become a gta01 hero by investigating power consumption issues and finally making it usable as a phone ;) The community won't forget their heros :) |
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| 11:32.02 | Psi_ | well 52mA is insane |
| 11:32.06 | Psi_ | should be much lower |
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| 11:32.54 | Psi_ | should be like 5mA |
| 11:33.15 | Psi_ | well 5-10 |
| 11:35.58 | Psi_ | think my wires a are bit thin at high GSM currents, phone keeps dying before it connects |
| 11:36.39 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r5c1418ab1dee 10/fsousaged/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fsousaged: install service file for dbus system activation |
| 11:39.11 | Psi_ | is at&poff correct? |
| 11:39.15 | Psi_ | its given error |
| 11:39.22 | PaulFertser | Psi_: Really? |
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| 11:39.31 | PaulFertser | Psi_: have you ever upgraded your gsm firmware? |
| 11:39.45 | Psi_ | yes |
| 11:39.52 | Psi_ | its not the latest but its been upgraded |
| 11:39.55 | PaulFertser | Psi_: sorry |
| 11:39.58 | PaulFertser | Psi_: AT@POFF |
| 11:39.59 | PaulFertser | @ |
| 11:40.02 | Psi_ | ah |
| 11:41.47 | Psi_ | hm.. doesnt want to suspend now that ive done that |
| 11:43.14 | PaulFertser | Psi_: just kill frameworkd |
| 11:43.17 | PaulFertser | Psi_: fully |
| 11:43.28 | PaulFertser | Psi_: and then suspend by "echo mem > /sys/power/state" |
| 11:44.14 | PaulFertser | Psi_: ophonekitd... |
| 11:44.20 | PaulFertser | Psi_: kill everything unnecessary |
| 11:44.46 | Psi_ | cant kill X, or i wont be able to type anything |
| 11:44.54 | PaulFertser | Ah, sure |
| 11:45.09 | PaulFertser | Psi_: it's not necessary |
| 11:45.37 | Psi_ | my screen is all fuzzy, i dont think it likes running like this |
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| 11:45.53 | PaulFertser | Fuzzy because of what? |
| 11:46.23 | Psi_ | i dunno it was all ghosted |
| 11:46.42 | Psi_ | like there was two images and one was 50pixel offset |
| 11:46.54 | Psi_ | na 10 pixel |
| 11:47.10 | Psi_ | booting it up again |
| 11:47.14 | PaulFertser | Psi_: hm, how did it happen? |
| 11:47.18 | PaulFertser | Psi_: after resume? |
| 11:47.24 | Psi_ | na, on boot |
| 11:47.28 | Psi_ | when it went into X |
| 11:47.47 | Psi_ | its probably the wires making intermittent contact and crashing stuff |
| 11:48.20 | Psi_ | not easy to tie wires onto the battery terminals |
| 11:48.47 | PaulFertser | Psi_: that's why it'd be better to solder esp. if you're going to do more extensive testing. |
| 11:50.10 | Psi_ | ya |
| 11:54.31 | Psi_ | ok, turning off gsm dropped the suspend current from 52mA to 44mA |
| 11:54.47 | Psi_ | so gsm uses 8mA |
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| 11:55.10 | PaulFertser | Psi_: looks reasonable |
| 11:55.42 | leila | still a phone that is "off" using that much power seems odd |
| 11:55.43 | Psi_ | the question is now, where is the 44mA going |
| 11:55.52 | Psi_ | yeah |
| 11:55.56 | Psi_ | something big is still running |
| 11:55.57 | leila | could be extreme leaking ? |
| 11:56.00 | PaulFertser | leila: it's gta01, it was never good at power consumption. |
| 11:56.07 | PaulFertser | leila: yes, extreme leaking. |
| 11:56.16 | PaulFertser | leila: and probably nobody has ever investigated it. |
| 11:56.32 | PaulFertser | leila: gta02 is much better as i've already told you. |
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| 11:57.00 | Psi_ | i need a high sensitivity thermal imager |
| 11:57.06 | Psi_ | that would show where the heat is going |
| 11:57.13 | PaulFertser | Psi_: do you have an access to one? It'd be a breakthrough! |
| 11:57.17 | Psi_ | na |
| 11:57.23 | Psi_ | wish i did, they are cool |
| 11:57.43 | leila | Was just wondering if there was some sub circuit, eg a power stabalizer, that is just in the main path of the battery + to - |
| 11:57.54 | PaulFertser | Psi_: Then i'm afraid your only chance is to remove some 0R that provide power to various parts. |
| 11:58.02 | Psi_ | yep |
| 11:58.07 | PaulFertser | leila: want to see the schematic? |
| 11:58.22 | leila | I can oogle them, but it has been a long time since uni ;) |
| 11:58.42 | leila | Any place I can see them ? |
| 11:58.53 | PaulFertser | leila: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/ |
| 12:00.02 | Psi_ | i wonder how much current refreshing the ram takes |
| 12:00.20 | Psi_ | should also try removing the sim and sdcard |
| 12:00.23 | Psi_ | see if that changes anything |
| 12:00.59 | PaulFertser | Psi_: and btw it'd be probably a good idea to compare gta01 and gta02 schem if you suspect anything particular. |
| 12:01.05 | SpeedEvil | Psi_: essentially zero |
| 12:01.10 | SpeedEvil | Psi_: if it's in sself-refresh |
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| 12:01.15 | Zorkman | does anybody know if lowering bitrate lowers cpu-usage of mplayer? |
| 12:01.20 | SpeedEvil | Psi_: It's on the order of 3mA or soo |
| 12:01.24 | Psi_ | ok |
| 12:01.28 | Psi_ | thx |
| 12:01.58 | SpeedEvil | Psi_: can you confirm the speaker amp is off? |
| 12:02.18 | jn | hi people! i've created a new screen lock theme |
| 12:02.37 | Psi_ | ok, booting up again with no sd or sim to see if either of them is stealing the power |
| 12:02.50 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: current kernel or's all amp registers with 0xf0 , it's supposed to put it to standby. |
| 12:02.51 | Psi_ | i doubt its that simple, but you never know |
| 12:03.11 | leila | anything that is ruled out already ? |
| 12:03.32 | SpeedEvil | k |
| 12:03.46 | SpeedEvil | It's jsut that the amp does use around 30mA |
| 12:03.48 | PaulFertser | leila: on gta01? Come on, Psi_ has only began his epic work ;) |
| 12:04.20 | Psi_ | hm.. i guess i should have thought about that first, i was running the os from the sdcard |
| 12:04.23 | Psi_ | heh |
| 12:04.35 | leila | Okies ;) |
| 12:04.52 | PaulFertser | s/only/just |
| 12:05.14 | SpeedEvil | Psi_: how are you measuring the power use - battery shunt? |
| 12:06.08 | Psi_ | just DMM on mA in series with the battery. I have to short out the dmm until ive booted and suspended cos it doesnt like the voltage drop |
| 12:07.02 | Psi_ | so yeah, shunt inside dmm |
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| 12:09.17 | PaulFertser | Psi_: btw, some components in some gta01 were glued to the pcb, i hope that you won't face that obstacle though. |
| 12:09.18 | leila | does the clock shutdown on the gta01 ? |
| 12:10.48 | Psi_ | interesting |
| 12:11.08 | Psi_ | ok, this maybe due to a different shr build, as im not using the old one off my onboard nand but.. |
| 12:11.24 | Psi_ | with no sd and no sim and gsm off the current is 24mA |
| 12:11.34 | PaulFertser | Psi_: what kernel is used? |
| 12:11.44 | Psi_ | ill have to check |
| 12:11.47 | PaulFertser | Psi_: uname -a |
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| 12:13.10 | Psi_ | have to wait for it to boot again, i forgot to put the clip back on and it crashed after coming out of suspend |
| 12:13.52 | PaulFertser | Psi_: if it's kernel issue, that's quite a regression... |
| 12:14.27 | PaulFertser | Psi_: anyway save somewhere s3c-gpio output just before and after suspend with both kernel preferably. |
| 12:14.58 | PaulFertser | Psi_: what shr build are you using on SD? Yesterday's? |
| 12:15.09 | Psi_ | yes, on sd is the 11th one |
| 12:15.14 | Psi_ | on nand is probably 5 months old |
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| 12:15.39 | Psi_ | it supports ext3 but not ext2 which is odd |
| 12:15.40 | PaulFertser | Psi_: the kernel on nand must be .24, so it's about June probably. |
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| 12:16.39 | Psi_ | ok, 2.6.24 #1 PREEMPT thu mar 27 |
| 12:16.43 | Psi_ | not as old as i thought |
| 12:18.11 | Psi_ | ill try this kernel with sd and sim inserted and see if the current goes to 44mA |
| 12:19.02 | PaulFertser | Psi_: please check if s3c-gpio works for you. |
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| 12:19.30 | PaulFertser | Psi_: probably it's called s3c24xx-gpio |
| 12:19.55 | SpeedEvil | The SD hardware does use a finite amount of power |
| 12:19.58 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 12:20.02 | SpeedEvil | but it shouldn't when off |
| 12:20.03 | SpeedEvil | ignore me |
| 12:20.51 | PaulFertser | Anyway 24mA in suspend with GSM on is huge... |
| 12:21.01 | SpeedEvil | GSM off I thought |
| 12:21.05 | PaulFertser | Yes, off |
| 12:21.06 | Psi_ | 24 is with it off |
| 12:21.09 | PaulFertser | typo |
| 12:21.11 | SpeedEvil | and yes - that's what - 50h |
| 12:22.37 | Psi_ | ok, booting up 2.6.24 with sd and sim inserted, will check current and try save s3c-gpio settings before and after suspend |
| 12:23.28 | Zorkman | PaulFertser: some one fot almsot 140h if i recall correctly (it was on the planet) |
| 12:24.16 | SpeedEvil | gta01 |
| 12:24.16 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 12:25.09 | PaulFertser | Psi_: btw, some/most/all PMU outputs can be disabled in software by reading pcf50606 datasheet and Werner's pmu utility (checked only on gta02 but i think it isn't hard to make it work on gta01 too). |
| 12:25.55 | SpeedEvil | perhaps also echo 0 >/proc/foo/voltage |
| 12:26.08 | SpeedEvil | Thoguh I'm unsure if that'll actully work. |
| 12:26.45 | SpeedEvil | The granularity in some subsystems rails is quite large |
| 12:26.55 | Zorkman | http://totalueberwachung.de/blog/2009/06/03/freerunner-deep-sleep-standby-time |
| 12:27.11 | Zorkman | 143.43h |
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| 12:31.40 | PaulFertser | Zorkman: and we're talking about gta01 |
| 12:31.52 | PaulFertser | Zorkman: with GSM completely off (not in deep sleep). |
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| 12:33.18 | Psi_ | ok, current on 2.6.24 with sd and sim in is 37mA |
| 12:33.33 | Psi_ | or 24mA with them both not in |
| 12:34.20 | Psi_ | ill try one at a time to see which is doing it |
| 12:34.42 | PaulFertser | Psi_: i bet it's SD |
| 12:34.50 | Psi_ | yeah |
| 12:35.02 | Psi_ | would be my guess too |
| 12:35.17 | Psi_ | shouldnt be running at all tho |
| 12:35.25 | Psi_ | when its in suspend |
| 12:36.20 | SpeedEvil | the clock can't be going - 10mA is about sane for powered but idle |
| 12:36.26 | PaulFertser | Psi_: so, it looks like 3mA is lost due to the kernel and 17 due to SD? |
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| 12:37.48 | SpeedEvil | Psi_: thoughts on the repeatability of your setup? Do you have the battery at a reasonably stable voltls? |
| 12:38.03 | Psi_ | it was fully charged when i started testing |
| 12:38.14 | Psi_ | but i dunno what the voltage drop is due to my wires |
| 12:38.22 | PaulFertser | Psi_: hm, it'd be better to run of lab psu... |
| 12:38.28 | Psi_ | ya |
| 12:38.37 | PaulFertser | (i don't have a lab psu at home too :) |
| 12:38.44 | SpeedEvil | fully charged will drop very rapidly in voltage for a bit |
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| 12:38.55 | SpeedEvil | till it stabilises at 4.05-4.1V or so |
| 12:39.28 | SpeedEvil | You may be able to run it from an external 3.3V supply. But the multimeter may cause problems in that case. |
| 12:40.09 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: how? |
| 12:40.17 | SpeedEvil | how? |
| 12:40.24 | SpeedEvil | the voltage drop |
| 12:40.51 | SpeedEvil | will lead to it probably crashing when GSM tries to do anything |
| 12:40.59 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: Ah. I'd suggest to disable gsm altogether (do not run frameworkd on startup should be enough). |
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| 12:56.58 | Psi_ | having problems getting the sim to work without a battery to press against it |
| 12:57.12 | Psi_ | dont think its making contact |
| 12:58.06 | PaulFertser | Psi_: sim? Why do you need it? |
| 12:58.26 | Psi_ | i was going to check the current draw with a sim but no sd |
| 12:58.38 | Psi_ | to prove it was the sd causing the extra current |
| 12:59.02 | PaulFertser | Psi_: you've already proved it by running with and without SD. |
| 12:59.36 | Psi_ | yes, but i also had it with and without sim at the same time |
| 12:59.43 | Psi_ | could be either |
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| 13:11.40 | Psi_ | bit late here, im off to bed. |
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| 13:12.53 | PaulFertser | Psi_: see you |
| 13:13.25 | Psi_ | nite |
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| 14:21.27 | CIA-53 | openmoko: 03daveb * r5125 10/trunk/gta02-core/components/ (atr0635.lib gta02-core-expanded.lib gta02-core.lib): Include all possible signals for multi-use pins |
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| 15:04.24 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: GSM is ceasing operation at 3V5 nominal |
| 15:05.00 | alphaone | ouch |
| 15:05.55 | DocScrutinizer | alphaone: yup, we should notice user if we find abyss can't talk to modem anymore |
| 15:06.29 | DocScrutinizer | also we should *power down* modem *and uart lines* then immediately |
| 15:06.32 | alphaone | DocScrutinizer: yeah, something like that |
| 15:07.25 | DocScrutinizer | alphaone: it's a pitty our PMU thresholds are up to 3.4V only, iirc |
| 15:07.42 | alphaone | DocScrutinizer: Yeah |
| 15:07.57 | DocScrutinizer | alphaone: otherwise I would recommend to use bat_low on 3V5, and sys_low on 2V8 |
| 15:08.18 | DocScrutinizer | alphaone: well, maybe it's still a reasonable setup |
| 15:08.37 | DocScrutinizer | alphaone: augmented by above mentioned abyss detection |
| 15:09.31 | DocScrutinizer | alphaone: but we need a means to wake from suspend on gsm-oper-thrhld tripping |
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| 15:10.40 | DocScrutinizer | for this bat_low 3V4 might still be handy (though I wonder if a dieing modem won't trigger a wake from suspend by its own, simply by irq line floating) |
| 15:10.42 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I was meaning - if it is at 3.3 - say - and it draws an amp and a half through a shunt which drops 200mV@200mA (as most meters do) - the trough voltage will cross below the minimum volts |
| 15:11.06 | SpeedEvil | (but if the modem shits itself down at 3.5 - not an ussie) |
| 15:11.08 | SpeedEvil | issue |
| 15:11.15 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: minimum voltage for GSM is 3v5 |
| 15:11.30 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 15:11.55 | SpeedEvil | (WRT using a computer 3.3V PSU to run the GTA01) |
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| 19:03.46 | slaxxer | whats up Doctor Dave? |
| 19:03.58 | slaxxer | Double D |
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| 20:57.33 | CIA-53 | openmoko: 03rehar * r5126 10/trunk/gta02-core/components/STATUS: Review of aat1275, ht210 and lis302dl |
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| 21:50.42 | fredrin | http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/latitude.png |
| 21:54.48 | Yanroy | rofl |
| 21:54.51 | Yanroy | I hadn't seen that one yet... |
| 21:55.07 | Yanroy | I'm still waiting for a location-aware todo list app for OM |
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| 23:19.55 | Slaxxer | ooo its a little devil with a pengy mask |
| 23:20.00 | Slaxxer | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:21.22 | Slaxxer | slackware64 is too cool |
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| 23:43.01 | linuxxr | wassup |
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