| 00:00.10 | *** join/#openmoko arg0 (n=stephen@CPE001c10acab63-CM000a7369b290.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 00:02.00 | *** join/#openmoko merriam_ (n=merriam@wmerriam.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:03.52 | vininim | cupcake just kicked in (and then I read how this version is all broken =X) |
| 00:05.10 | SeligArkin | 'all broken' describes all the software stacks for the openmoko so far. :P |
| 00:05.10 | Docscrutinizer99 | woohoo, live out there |
| 00:05.59 | SeligArkin | I feel sad for having said that |
| 00:06.45 | Blu3 | indeed |
| 00:06.51 | vininim | that's a good |
| 00:06.55 | Blu3 | why? |
| 00:07.04 | vininim | thing, it means you'll dominate the market if you release something that does ;P |
| 00:07.13 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host86-155-247-111.range86-155.btcentralplus.com) |
| 00:07.27 | vininim | (work) |
| 00:07.48 | SeligArkin | makes a distro that works awsomely and uses pixies to make the openmoko run like a quad core with unlimited ram |
| 00:07.52 | Blu3 | what if i just want to use something that has 100% of what i -need- and i just want to add stuff to play with? |
| 00:08.27 | Blu3 | sigh, opkg keeps making my FR go OOM boom |
| 00:08.43 | SeligArkin | Blu3: opkg is one thing I am going to replace once I can |
| 00:08.58 | Blu3 | it's a bit of a bothersome thing |
| 00:09.45 | slaxxin | no better time than the present |
| 00:10.07 | SeligArkin | slaxxin: why do you think I am setting up the dev environment? |
| 00:10.21 | Blu3 | -_- actually i have other things to do at the present that are preferrable |
| 00:10.21 | slaxxin | use the bytestore image of 2008.12 |
| 00:11.03 | SeligArkin | slaxxin: I like shr's dialer and all |
| 00:11.10 | slaxxin | yea |
| 00:11.18 | SeligArkin | though I am probably going to go back to debian and just write my own |
| 00:11.27 | slaxxin | too slow though |
| 00:11.35 | Blu3 | there are too many convoluted distributions and packages with different versions and they all seem to have some significant flaws one way or another |
| 00:13.22 | SeligArkin | if I do bite the bullet and write my own like i am considering |
| 00:14.04 | SeligArkin | I intend to atleast allow loading opkg ones if possible,in addition to whatever zany pakckage management I cook up |
| 00:14.19 | SeligArkin | but I doubt I will,I am too lazy. :P |
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| 00:19.33 | Blu3 | *adds swapfile from sd* |
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| 00:20.50 | Dave | SeligAchin |
| 00:23.10 | Docscrutinizer99 | hehe, fixed itself |
| 00:23.57 | SeligArkin | Dave |
| 00:24.36 | Docscrutinizer99 | though not really |
| 00:27.42 | Dave | SPEAK MORTAL |
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| 00:28.12 | SeligArkin | <demon voice>Greetings mortal... Are you ready to die?</demon voice> |
| 00:29.35 | SpeedEvil | wonders why the demon voice sounds like LaLa from the teletubbies. |
| 00:29.58 | Dave | stabs SeligArkin |
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| 00:33.03 | SeligArkin | :O |
| 00:33.20 | SeligArkin | absorbs the knife into her body |
| 00:33.30 | Dave | kinky hot |
| 00:33.32 | Dave | ;D |
| 00:33.38 | Dave | That's my kind of woman! |
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| 00:37.19 | SeligArkin | coughs up a knife and throws it into the trash |
| 00:38.31 | Dave | reuse! |
| 00:38.35 | Dave | hahaha omg |
| 00:38.37 | Dave | rofl |
| 00:39.03 | Dave | Which is harder, making a phonecall with the freerunner or trying to murder someone by stabbing them with the freerunner? |
| 00:39.32 | SeligArkin | neither, they both crash it. |
| 00:39.45 | SeligArkin | ;p |
| 00:39.46 | SeligArkin | :P |
| 00:39.48 | mmontour | "lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 34 Mar 13 20:16 /etc/localtime -> /usr/share/zoneinfo/Canada/Pacific", so why TF does my Freerunner insist that it's in Newfoundland? |
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| 00:40.17 | SeligArkin | mmontour: your bacon is out of balance |
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| 00:40.45 | tomboy64 | o.O |
| 00:40.51 | Dave | mmontour, is that software time or hw time? |
| 00:40.52 | Dave | clock |
| 00:42.04 | mmontour | Well I'm trying to get all times to be consistent (ntpdate to set the system time, then hwclock to save it) but it doesn't work right with the timezone messed up |
| 00:43.15 | Dave | right |
| 00:43.18 | Dave | hmm |
| 00:43.34 | Dave | I always had trouble with this too >:( |
| 00:43.54 | Dave | I usually ended up searching forums for the answer, and then came up with something that worked |
| 00:44.10 | Dave | also a few times I just manually configured the tz since the tz file was actually bogus or incorrect |
| 00:44.31 | balrog-kun | or both |
| 00:44.44 | mmontour | I'll try reinstalling whichever package contains those zoneinfo files |
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| 00:46.12 | Dave | then resync and try again |
| 00:46.17 | Dave | balrogkun :p |
| 00:49.06 | mmontour | damnit! That worked briefly but something stomped on it again. I guess something in FSO is not expecting /etc/localtime to be a symlink, and is overwriting it with its idea of my timezone |
| 00:49.19 | vininim | has a nice koolu bootsplash on FR |
| 00:49.25 | vininim | and it's been there for some time |
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| 01:02.55 | Dave | Cthulhu? |
| 01:02.58 | Dave | >:) |
| 01:03.14 | mmontour | Ia! Ia! |
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| 01:17.38 | mmontour | "otimed INFO GSM: Zone America/St_Johns". Now where is that coming from? |
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| 01:19.49 | mwester | Did you move to Newfoundland, then? |
| 01:19.50 | *** join/#openmoko shellevil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 01:20.41 | mwester | sounds like something might be trying to mess with your TZ data based on GSM messages? |
| 01:21.11 | mwester | has not observed sensible values for the TZ data from his calypso/carrier. |
| 01:23.11 | mmontour | Maybe the carrier's HQ is in Newfoundland or something; I'm certainly not |
| 01:24.09 | mmontour | is in Vancouver - different ocean |
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| 01:29.38 | mmontour | Ah, now I see. otimed.py is looking up the ISO country code reported by GSM in /usr/share/zoneinfo/zone.tab and is taking the timezone from the first matching row |
| 01:29.43 | Dave | heehee |
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| 01:30.32 | mmontour | There are 27 entries in that file for Canada. |
| 01:31.04 | Dave | o.O |
| 01:31.07 | Dave | hmm |
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| 01:31.48 | mmontour | OK, dinner break and then bug-reporting time |
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| 01:32.13 | Dave | Hooray! |
| 01:32.30 | Dave | Mmontour, you're in vancouver? |
| 01:32.38 | mmontour | yes |
| 01:32.57 | Dave | :) |
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| 01:51.29 | SeligArkin | Dave: what area are you in? |
| 01:53.08 | Dave | IM IN UR BASEMENT, HOOKIN UP MAH FREERUNNERZ |
| 01:53.33 | SeligArkin | :O |
| 01:53.40 | SeligArkin | HOW DID YOU GET IN MY HOUSE!? |
| 01:53.45 | mwester | Nobody really knows, and in fact we have only the so-called-Dave's assertion that he actually owns any Freerrunners at all. |
| 01:53.46 | slaxxin | there are daves everywhere ive found |
| 01:54.08 | mwester | he's probably not even named Dave. |
| 01:54.26 | SeligArkin | I bet he's actualy a girl named sally |
| 01:54.31 | mwester | In fact, he may very well be the successor to the "eliza" program. |
| 01:54.46 | slaxxin | conjured up by apt |
| 01:54.48 | SeligArkin | Dave: I am going to call you sally from nowon |
| 01:54.58 | SeligArkin | ok, sally? |
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| 01:55.31 | slaxxin | u interactive bot u |
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| 01:56.19 | Dave | AFFIRMATIVE |
| 01:56.31 | Dave | Selig, whatever you like ;) |
| 01:56.45 | slaxxin | so wheres the latest news at? |
| 01:58.45 | tomboy64 | NWFPE versus FASTFPE in kernel - any comments? |
| 01:58.57 | tomboy64 | i think i'm going for fastfpe |
| 01:59.17 | SeligArkin | tomboy64: nwfpe won by 12 points |
| 01:59.30 | tomboy64 | why? |
| 01:59.31 | SeligArkin | sally, make me a a sammich please |
| 01:59.38 | SeligArkin | tomboy64: I was just being random |
| 01:59.46 | tomboy64 | :-S |
| 01:59.52 | SeligArkin | I honestly have no clue what you were talking about |
| 02:00.10 | SeligArkin | you said "versus" so Io imagined it was a fight or a game or something |
| 02:00.27 | arg0 | shr-project.org down for anybody else? |
| 02:00.57 | *** join/#openmoko rooly (n=rooly@12.151.197.98) |
| 02:01.20 | SeligArkin | rooly! say hello to my new friend sally, ~points to Dave~ |
| 02:01.41 | rooly | ... |
| 02:01.50 | rooly | hiya dally |
| 02:01.53 | rooly | i mean save |
| 02:01.54 | rooly | i mean |
| 02:01.55 | rooly | nvm |
| 02:02.11 | tomboy64 | arg0, how bout shr.bearstech.com/trac? |
| 02:03.39 | arg0 | that does work |
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| 02:06.44 | mmontour | tomboy64: personally I would stick with NWFPE. Openmoko is flaky enough without turning on experimental kernel features. |
| 02:07.23 | tomboy64 | the question is, how experimental is fastfpe? |
| 02:07.59 | tomboy64 | in the past i found "experimental" features in the past to be rock-stable |
| 02:08.19 | mmontour | I don't know anything about it beyond what's in the kernel config, but I have a low tolerance for bit-flips or incorrect calculations |
| 02:08.55 | mmontour | remembers a half-day of tracing code before finding that it was an Intel CPU mis-calculating some floating-point math. |
| 02:09.31 | tomboy64 | ewww |
| 02:10.03 | mmontour | luckily in that situation it was *way* wrong so it was easy to spot |
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| 02:11.53 | tomboy64 | hmm |
| 02:12.39 | tomboy64 | i just did some reading and reckon that, since i'm using softfloat and compiling everything on my own, the emulated fpu is not necessary |
| 02:13.02 | tomboy64 | hence i opt for sta(b)le and take nwfpe |
| 02:13.37 | mmontour | that sounds like a good approach |
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| 02:31.19 | BillK | mmontour: just reading back over the conversations - I raised a bug about otimed and some of its nasty habits |
| 02:31.22 | BillK | Openmoko Bug #2244: otimed is poorly designed/implemented in a way that affects its operation |
| 02:32.11 | mmontour | thanks, I'll look at that. I was just about to file a report on trac.freesmartphone.org |
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| 02:33.41 | BillK | I probably put it in the wrong place, but at the time I didnt realise that FSO |
| 02:33.48 | BillK | had a different trac |
| 02:34.07 | mmontour | It's hard to know where to report stuff - mailing lists, OM trac, OE, FSO, etc. |
| 02:34.39 | mmontour | sometimes it's easier just to complain here on IRC :) |
| 02:38.56 | mwester | Certainly more gratifying! But at least if its noted here, others are more likely to remember the issue (and cause/solution) when they encounter it. |
| 02:39.36 | mwester | For example, now I know what to suspect if my phone starts thinking its in the Eastern time zone. |
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| 03:06.37 | BillK | mwester: thats what mine did - lord howe island - would have been nice if I was really there - but I am in Perth :) |
| 03:07.55 | mmontour | BillK: same bug. Lord Howe is top of the list for AU in zone.tab |
| 03:08.42 | Blu3 | i'm really getting to dislike opkg |
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| 05:34.16 | slaxxin | has the news been moved or is there no news? |
| 05:34.23 | slaxxin | DOC? |
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| 05:44.35 | slaxxin | haha 3.18 fyp |
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| 07:32.13 | Blu3 | what daemon or process is responsible for finding the SIM card? |
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| 08:04.35 | freerunnerlive | i have a problem with qi he sad installing qi and then withe screen ever and ever |
| 08:04.44 | freerunnerlive | can anybody help |
| 08:04.47 | freerunnerlive | ? |
| 08:11.54 | methril|work | morning |
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| 08:18.33 | PaulFert1er_ | "he sad installing qi" lol |
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| 08:25.00 | PaulFert1er_ | Thou shalt not trust Him to install Qi when too sad is he. |
| 08:30.39 | CVirus | thou shall not fart in closed places |
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| 08:36.16 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 08:49.26 | Dave | :) |
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| 13:24.12 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFert1er_: You have a lot of trouble with that nick. :P |
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| 13:25.08 | PaulFert1er_ | Digital_Pioneer: No, i have troubles with perl scripts hogging cpu on BIP server. |
| 13:25.23 | Digital_Pioneer | Heheh, what's BIP? |
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| 13:36.34 | Docscrutinizer99 | hmm, gone. Anyway, bip is an IRC-proxy |
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| 14:36.55 | joejoe | hi guys, is there any schedule for GTA03 ? In case, that the release is schedule on Q1 of 2010, then i could be interested about buying of about 10-15 devices.. |
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| 14:38.38 | Zorkman_ | joejoe, nobody knows, and those that can guess won't talk :) |
| 14:41.19 | joejoe | you know, right now is the time for requests on new lab equipment for next year and i was thinking about gta03. But i have to discuss it with my boss yet. |
| 14:42.39 | max_posedon | joejoe, you should contract directly OM(FIC) |
| 14:44.59 | PaulFertser | joejoe: and i guess you might be interested to buy gta02 instead of gta03 even after it is released. |
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| 14:47.20 | PaulFertser | joejoe: and i'd not hope to receive any answer from OM about eta for gta03. |
| 14:47.40 | PaulFertser | BTW, OM is not FIC anymore. Two different companies. |
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| 14:49.45 | joejoe | you know, our research group is focused on computer vision, and because of some accident we are opening new lectures about mobile devices. The other guys want to buy iphones and g1s, and camera and openness of gta03 could be good argument.. |
| 14:49.57 | DocScrutinizer | joejoe: PaulFertser is right |
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| 14:51.27 | DocScrutinizer | joejoe: right now you aren't even able to have an idea what gta0e will look alike (feature wise) |
| 14:51.48 | DocScrutinizer | *03 even |
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| 14:54.23 | joejoe | ok, will see (i just write to request "some mobile devices" .. ) |
| 14:54.25 | DocScrutinizer | joejoe: I'd suggest buying FR anyway |
| 14:54.41 | vininim | FR doesn't have cam |
| 14:55.23 | DocScrutinizer | vininim: who's telling you gta03 will have? |
| 14:56.16 | vininim | nobody, but iphone has =P |
| 14:56.24 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 14:57.04 | DocScrutinizer | err, maybe. no iphone here :-P |
| 14:57.32 | PaulFertser | joejoe: btw, if you buy htc dream (g1) today from uk, you'll be able to easily "root" it. |
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| 14:57.51 | DocScrutinizer | fwiw |
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| 14:59.14 | PaulFertser | joejoe: but it doesn't have a free software to use camera yet, afaik. |
| 14:59.31 | DocScrutinizer | root hormone fertilizer ;P |
| 14:59.40 | joejoe | there is some problem with opencv and driver? |
| 14:59.42 | PaulFertser | joejoe: but iphone is not an option, even the kernel is non-free. |
| 14:59.59 | PaulFertser | joejoe: there's some problem with HTC and other motherfuckers who like proprietary stuff. |
| 15:00.54 | CVirus | LOL |
| 15:01.01 | CVirus | fuck proprietary stuff |
| 15:01.48 | DocScrutinizer | away to send envelope with ridiculously lightwight small content across half the continent |
| 15:04.34 | mwester | Are folks who like proprietary stuff really all guilty of incest, then? |
| 15:05.07 | mjr | yes, and also child molesting |
| 15:05.41 | PaulFertser | mwester: no, i didn't imply that |
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| 15:07.27 | DocScrutinizer | they're guilty of a much more severe crime: missing respect of freedom, out of mere stupidity |
| 15:07.50 | PaulFertser | I usually use the explecitives without intent of offensing anybody, btw. |
| 15:11.05 | DocScrutinizer | mwester: ther's no good reason to *like* proprietary stuff (except if you're selling it) |
| 15:11.52 | henk | or if it's plainly good. i liked nokia a long time. |
| 15:12.26 | mwester | doesn't think it's quite so simple; he's very pleased that some of his work is considered valuable enough that people pay for it, and it's rather nice to have a roof over one's head and food on the table -- that's not free (no matter what Obama wants) |
| 15:12.48 | DocScrutinizer | you may like a good soft- or hardware, but never the concept of proprietary stuff |
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| 15:15.06 | henk | DocScrutinizer: i disliked it for being proprietary, but that's not necessarily a factor for liking or not liking... |
| 15:15.20 | DocScrutinizer | mwester: so you're selling it. it's that simple. even then you take prop. for a measure to copyprotect. there's no beauty in prop. by itself |
| 15:15.52 | SpeedEvil | for craft stuff there is |
| 15:16.20 | SpeedEvil | but, code is so easily copied that there isn't much virtue in that |
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| 15:18.31 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, have a nice start into weekend folks! me leaving now |
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| 15:18.44 | henk | waves |
| 15:19.15 | SpeedEvil | wave |
| 15:20.49 | vininim | Erasing failed write from 00020000-0003ffff |
| 15:20.52 | vininim | =O |
| 15:21.59 | Blu3 | mwester, i don't care if people charge money for an open source program package. as long as the code is freely available at no cost. the people getting the code aren't likely to pay for the software were it closed source. the people who do pay for it are likely to pay regardless of it being closed or open. |
| 15:22.55 | mwester | You base the last sentence on your personal experience, or on some economic studies that prove that businesses will purchase software that is open source? |
| 15:22.57 | SpeedEvil | There is a flaw in that logic |
| 15:23.19 | Blu3 | proprietary software often is really crappy under the hood and in my past experience, it's crappy because it's rushed to market, driven by making sales. so a lot of shortcuts are taken by the engineers to satisfy the demand of the sales force |
| 15:23.27 | mwester | has customers that purchase _support_ for certain opensource from Red Hat, but none that actually pay anyone for opensource. |
| 15:23.28 | SpeedEvil | for example, I'd quite happily purchase a GPS map navigation system for my OM for 30 -50 quid or so. |
| 15:23.42 | SpeedEvil | Or complete voice recognition. |
| 15:24.08 | SpeedEvil | The former has legal problems preventing it being open-source, the latter is just hideously complex. |
| 15:24.19 | SpeedEvil | and takes a lot of man-years of directed work. |
| 15:24.38 | SpeedEvil | It's not vulnerable to random coders picking off a 25 line function at a time. |
| 15:24.47 | mwester | Blu3: If the code is freely available at no cost, as you say, then why would a company send my company a check to pay for it? |
| 15:24.48 | Blu3 | i base it on a lot of experience with dealing with both sides of the fence. people with money (and businesses) prefer to buy something because the transfer of money imbues a false sense of "better" |
| 15:25.08 | Blu3 | because the company doesn't write or compile software, they just want something that works |
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| 15:25.25 | cjb | SpeedEvil: I did purchase a GPS map systeem for OM; I donated to the tangogps guy :) |
| 15:25.31 | cjb | but isn't navigation, yeah |
| 15:26.14 | vininim | mwester: software life cycle and requirements change justify investing on an (opensource) software project. |
| 15:26.21 | mwester | Blu3: Do you have the names of any customers that actually do that? I will happily sell them pre-compiled versions of opensource. that's rather easy. |
| 15:26.31 | mwester | vininim: translations? |
| 15:26.39 | Blu3 | mind you, i didn't make a statement that said always. i said likely. there's no perfect answer. people will pirate closed source stuff |
| 15:26.47 | SpeedEvil | cjb: no - a navigation package with rights to vectorised maps |
| 15:26.48 | vininim | not every company sees information systems as IP |
| 15:26.52 | Blu3 | sure. all the boxed linux distributions |
| 15:26.59 | Blu3 | :P |
| 15:27.02 | vininim | some see it as a mean to an end |
| 15:27.16 | vininim | a minimal part of their bussiness process |
| 15:27.28 | SpeedEvil | cjb: good vectorised maps that I can say '45 projected street, cambridge' and it'll get me there. |
| 15:27.48 | mwester | Blu3: no, I think you misunderstand. I'm specifically exlcuding support contracts, which is really what those companies sell. |
| 15:27.53 | Blu3 | speedevil, buying the gps product rarely gives you any rights other than the use of the product. the maps are still copyrighted. most software doesn't give you any ownership, just license to use |
| 15:28.21 | SpeedEvil | Blu3: I know - I want the ability to purchase maps. |
| 15:28.32 | SpeedEvil | is involved with OSM, /me knows all this crap. |
| 15:28.35 | vininim | mwester: basically it's hard to see a company getting a final product wrt to software. Requirements will change |
| 15:29.02 | SpeedEvil | vininim: this is why microsoft doesn't sell products. |
| 15:29.15 | SpeedEvil | Oh - wait. /me checks microsofts market cap. |
| 15:29.18 | mwester | But heck, this is a silly argument, I've been here many times before. I won't convince you that there is room for proprietary software, and you can't convince me that I'll continue to be paid if I give away all my work for free. |
| 15:29.27 | vininim | i'm not touching propietary vs floss yet. =P |
| 15:29.49 | vininim | I see that there is space for both |
| 15:30.18 | Blu3 | mwester, i've spent the last fifteen years making software recommendations for a variety of products. businesses always want the one that costs the most (that they can afford). specifically firewalls, they see that "linux iptables" costs $0 and -completely- dismiss it and opt for a $50,000 HP firewall that is like kindergarten crayons compared to iptables for functionality |
| 15:30.23 | Blu3 | :P |
| 15:30.32 | mwester | But regardless of how one feels on the topic, I don't think vulgarities and insults are called for. |
| 15:30.33 | vininim | just because it's not clear yet that floss is the ultimate process |
| 15:30.38 | Blu3 | i didn't say there was no room for proprietary |
| 15:30.38 | mwester | Which is how this topic started. |
| 15:30.43 | mwester | And now it ends. :) |
| 15:31.07 | Blu3 | please don't presume my position |
| 15:32.34 | SpeedEvil | wonders if http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&=&q=projected street&lr=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl is a real street |
| 15:33.07 | SpeedEvil | http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?source=ig&hl=en&q=Projected+St,+London,+Middlesex+County,+Ontario,+Canada&ie=UTF8&cd=2&geocode=FZryjwIdEVgn-w&split=0&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=6.881357,14.941406&ll=42.988419,-81.307626&spn=0.008711,0.017231&t=h&z=16&iwloc=addr rather |
| 15:34.10 | vininim | heh |
| 15:34.36 | vininim | anyway, should I worry about ``Erasing failed write from 00020000-0003ffff'' ? |
| 15:34.59 | SpeedEvil | during normal operation? |
| 15:35.29 | SpeedEvil | The NAND flash is an unreliable medium. It has blocks go bad during use, this is expected, and there are algorithms to deal with it without data loss. |
| 15:36.03 | SpeedEvil | This is expected. I don't however know if this is a 'situation normal' message, or a 'monkeys are about to fly out of your nose' message, as I've not read the code. |
| 15:36.08 | vininim | dugin a nandwrite |
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| 15:36.35 | vininim | *during |
| 15:36.45 | SpeedEvil | hands vininim a hanky. |
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| 15:39.31 | vininim | =~ |
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| 15:42.45 | mmontour | vininim: try using flash_eraseall to erase the partition before using nandwrite |
| 15:43.06 | vininim | I did |
| 15:44.03 | mmontour | then I guess it's a real bad block |
| 15:44.49 | mmontour | In theory this is normal for NAND, but I don't know how well Openmoko handles it at the moment |
| 15:47.08 | vininim | does debian support yaffs2 somehow? |
| 15:47.41 | mmontour | I don't know |
| 15:48.04 | mmontour | Which partition did you see the error on? |
| 15:48.30 | vininim | mtd7 |
| 15:48.41 | bjdooks | it depends on filesystem and how it interacts with the mtd layer on how error correction and bad block management is done |
| 15:49.14 | mmontour | mine only goes up to mtd6 (rootfs) |
| 15:49.49 | vininim | android qi changes that supposedly |
| 15:51.04 | mmontour | OK, I've never tried android. Anyway, my concern was that if it was in an earlier partition then it might mess up the offsets of all of the following partitions (see the "dynpart" u-boot command) |
| 15:51.37 | *** join/#openmoko janrikard (n=rikard@c-371672d5.25-93-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 15:52.19 | *** join/#openmoko agg1n (n=jan@static-87-245-54-39.teleos-web.de) |
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| 15:55.57 | henk | vininim: what's in /proc/cmdline? |
| 16:02.28 | *** join/#openmoko polymar (n=polymar@ip72-219-145-48.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 16:02.29 | mmontour | vininim: you can use the u-boot "nand" command for further debugging. "nand bad" should show you the bad-block table. Also look at the "NAND bad blocks" wiki page. |
| 16:03.33 | vininim | loglevel=4 console=ttySAC2,115200 init=/sbin/init rdinit=/init ro mtdparts=physmap-flash:-(nor);neo1973-nand:0x00040000(qi),0x00040000(depr-ub-env),0x00800000(kernel),0x000a0000(depr),0x00040000(identity-ext2),0x04000000(system),0x0b6a0000(userdata) g_ether.host_addr=00:1F:11:01:68:4B g_ether.dev_addr=00:1F:11:01:68:4B root=/dev/mmcblk0p1 rootdelay=1 root=/dev/mmcblk0p1 rootdelay=1 loglevel=8 |
| 16:04.57 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
| 16:10.07 | Zorkman_ | root@om-gta02 /usr/share/applications $ DISPLAY=:0 xboard |
| 16:10.07 | Zorkman_ | xboard: error while loading shared libraries: libXaw8.so.8: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 16:10.10 | Zorkman_ | oeps |
| 16:12.30 | *** part/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
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| 16:36.31 | Sharwin_F | Zorkman,, you can install it from angstrom-distribution :) |
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| 16:46.20 | Blu3 | if i boot from SD, what dev can i use to mount the flash root filesystem? |
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| 16:58.34 | UnknownArtists | hi, does anyone know something about the design of the new GTA03? |
| 16:58.45 | *** join/#openmoko cdbot2 (n=cdbot2@hentges.net) |
| 16:58.55 | UnknownArtists | sory i meant someone .... |
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| 17:02.22 | *** join/#openmoko tomer_ (n=tomer@89-139-68-164.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 17:05.14 | mmontour | Blu3: mount -t jffs2 /dev/mtdblock6 /mnt |
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| 17:07.49 | Blu3 | thanky |
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| 17:08.23 | *** part/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@114-45-170-114.dynamic.hinet.net) |
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| 17:11.15 | *** join/#openmoko Digital_Pioneer (n=digitalp@192.133.129.3) |
| 17:11.56 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: Well, I've got about 50 minutes to work on BT. Your e-mail said to come, so here I am. :P |
| 17:12.43 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFert1er_: Same to you. Heheh |
| 17:14.45 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rdfa86d77ef70 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/mediator.py: ogsmd: fix prefixmap for several free-format commands (spotted on HTC Touch Pro) |
| 17:15.18 | *** part/#openmoko tig| (n=Tig|@aurix.plus.com) |
| 17:15.27 | *** join/#openmoko tomer__ (n=tomer@89-139-68-164.bb.netvision.net.il) |
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| 17:22.57 | vininim | mmm I could use a card reader |
| 17:22.59 | *** join/#openmoko hd (n=jd@modemcable022.187-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 17:27.14 | *** join/#openmoko rcxdude (n=rcxdude@78-105-140-204.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:27.20 | mmontour | vininim: it's possible to use the Freerunner as a card reader (remove the "g_ether" USB-networking module and load "g_file_storage") |
| 17:28.03 | *** join/#openmoko divanorama (n=divan@ivanco.convex.ru) |
| 17:28.21 | Digital_Pioneer | How do I clear bluetooth bonds that have been made? |
| 17:28.44 | SeligArkin | sell them? |
| 17:28.59 | SeligArkin | sorry that was a horrible joke |
| 17:29.13 | vininim | mmontour: I mean, I just flashed FSO, so I can copy the android installer into a card, so I can use that to flash android. |
| 17:29.32 | *** join/#openmoko Aelia (n=any@adsl-fami-1-c52-p064.vtx.ch) |
| 17:31.33 | mmontour | In my opinion, the fewer times you have to physically remove the uSD card the better. I really hate the card holder on the FR |
| 17:31.50 | SeligArkin | mmontour: agreed |
| 17:32.01 | mmontour | I put together a minimal rootfs that just exports the card over g_file_storage; less overhead that flashing a full distro |
| 17:32.16 | mmontour | s/that/than |
| 17:33.03 | *** join/#openmoko kirun (n=kirun@78-86-154-194.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:33.15 | mmontour | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-March/005135.html |
| 17:33.48 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-078-042-071-198.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 17:34.18 | *** join/#openmoko hd (n=jd@modemcable022.187-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 17:34.21 | PBeck | hallo |
| 17:34.59 | SeligArkin | ohai |
| 17:35.03 | SeligArkin | can haz bacon? |
| 17:35.09 | SpeedEvil | realises a probable reason for google-live, other than the obvious. |
| 17:35.20 | SpeedEvil | It - with a little software to read streetnames / point them to humans to read them - and a little smarts to work out stuff like road borders from edges, completely removes their reliance on external map providers. |
| 17:35.29 | SpeedEvil | meaning they don't need to licence any data at all for viewers in google-live mapped areas. (in principle, in the future) |
| 17:36.15 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=christoo@BSN-143-136-16.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 17:36.24 | Dave | cats seligarkin |
| 17:36.39 | SeligArkin | Meow! |
| 17:37.49 | SeligArkin | I should replace cat with a shell script again |
| 17:37.51 | Digital_Pioneer | cat SeligArkin > /mnt/dog |
| 17:38.11 | Digital_Pioneer | Well... |
| 17:38.14 | Digital_Pioneer | s/mnt/dev/ |
| 17:38.53 | SeligArkin | echo 1>&2 'WOOf WOOf WoOF! MEEERRRRRROWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWw' |
| 17:39.36 | mmontour | cat > /dev/watchdog |
| 17:40.30 | SeligArkin | turns into a lobster and pinches Dave's butt |
| 17:40.34 | Digital_Pioneer | ALSA lib pcm_bluetooth.c:1569:(audioservice_expect) BT_START_STREAM failed : Success(0) |
| 17:40.44 | Digital_Pioneer | Such lovely errors we get... |
| 17:40.56 | SeligArkin | indeed, Digital_Pioneer |
| 17:40.59 | mmontour | lol, SeligArkin's favorite error |
| 17:41.01 | SeligArkin | I got that yesterday |
| 17:41.14 | Digital_Pioneer | Hahah |
| 17:41.34 | SeligArkin | from something completelseperatw ethough |
| 17:41.34 | Digital_Pioneer | Error: Unexpected reply: `Success' |
| 17:42.01 | *** join/#openmoko muxe (n=muxe@i577B6E9A.versanet.de) |
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| 17:42.40 | mmontour | the bluetooth code is so accustomed to something going wrong that it cannot cope with the possibility of it actually working |
| 17:42.49 | Digital_Pioneer | Indeed. |
| 17:44.01 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.244) |
| 17:44.46 | SeligArkin | Bluetooth!? UCCEED!? THAT SHOULD CAUSE A KERNEL PANIC' |
| 17:46.07 | Digital_Pioneer | ERROR: pipeline doesn't want to preroll. |
| 17:46.12 | Digital_Pioneer | Ehh? |
| 17:46.13 | Digital_Pioneer | :P |
| 17:46.22 | SeligArkin | ... WHAAA |
| 17:47.02 | Digital_Pioneer | Pipeline is live and does not need PREROLL ... |
| 17:47.06 | Digital_Pioneer | ERROR: pipeline doesn't want to preroll. |
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| 17:47.34 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.241) |
| 17:47.39 | Digital_Pioneer | Pipeline is PREROLLED ... |
| 17:47.49 | Digital_Pioneer | ERROR: pipeline doesn't want to preroll. |
| 17:48.05 | Digital_Pioneer | Very interesting output from gst-launch. |
| 17:48.43 | Digital_Pioneer | "It doesn't need to do x, but we're going to fail because it won't do x. It has already done x, but we fail because it don't do x." |
| 17:49.00 | Digital_Pioneer | s/don't/won't/; |
| 17:50.29 | Digital_Pioneer | Well, I've gotta run. Later, fellow Freerunnerers. :P |
| 17:53.46 | *** join/#openmoko samgee (n=samgee@145.40-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 17:54.42 | DocScrutinizer | mmontour: cat > /dev/watchdog? wtf?! a tiger? |
| 17:55.06 | Dave | woof! |
| 17:57.07 | DocScrutinizer | efff, arrr, effff eff |
| 17:57.16 | Dave | scary :D |
| 17:57.56 | DocScrutinizer | a dog smaller than cat?! what'd you expect anyway? |
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| 17:59.44 | Dave | moo |
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| 18:20.28 | *** part/#openmoko Jack_Flame1 (n=dani@net-93-148-230-224.t2.dsl.vodafone.it) |
| 18:20.54 | vininim | android beta 4 just kicked in, and this time it really did. =P |
| 18:21.46 | Dave | oh snap! |
| 18:22.40 | mickeyl | great great |
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| 18:44.11 | Blu3 | erm. oops. i made my top shelf icons too big it seems, now i can't tap on it to get the settings. what's the program name to launch so i can fix this? |
| 18:44.51 | Blu3 | i'm using shr/illume |
| 18:47.03 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r1b57e0a6bab4 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): |
| 18:47.03 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: Do not assume a range of 0-255 for +CLVL, rather |
| 18:47.03 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: query the modem first. If the respective query is not supported, |
| 18:47.03 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: _then_ assume 0-255. [QUALCOMM MSM] uses a range of 0-5. |
| 18:51.34 | *** join/#openmoko tig| (n=tigger@tig.gotadsl.co.uk) |
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| 18:58.23 | Dave | tig |
| 18:58.35 | CVirus | dave |
| 18:59.26 | tig| | Dave! |
| 18:59.47 | Wonka | tig tag tig tag |
| 18:59.52 | Wonka | Dave :) |
| 19:00.07 | tig| | hmm |
| 19:00.12 | tig| | more beer needed |
| 19:01.11 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.241) |
| 19:06.42 | Dave | :D |
| 19:09.18 | *** part/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@95.89.148.250) |
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| 19:33.21 | tig| | opkg install beer && opkg install lasagne |
| 19:33.26 | tig| | oops wrong window |
| 19:33.49 | Wonka | wrong order |
| 19:33.56 | Wonka | lasagna first |
| 19:34.05 | *** join/#openmoko booxter (n=booxter@night02.sml.by) |
| 19:34.29 | tig| | opkg : error lasagne is installed in /dev/oven |
| 19:34.40 | tig| | :) |
| 19:34.52 | SpeedEvil | just had a balanced meal. |
| 19:35.07 | SpeedEvil | Pork-pie, hot-cross-bun, chocolate-chip-muffin |
| 19:35.10 | tig| | beer with a beer to drink? |
| 19:35.26 | tig| | that is not balanced, there was no beer |
| 19:37.08 | Serdar | what's this remoko? |
| 19:38.15 | tig| | remoko turns your freerunner into a bluetooth remote controll iirc |
| 19:39.11 | tig| | I have not tried installing it for ages, I had it running on 2008.x and used it to control my mythbox |
| 19:39.33 | Serdar | really nice |
| 19:40.03 | Serdar | so I can Use my moko for presentations? :D |
| 19:40.07 | tig| | yep |
| 19:40.24 | tig| | well if the other machine is a linux box |
| 19:40.45 | tig| | I don't know if it will work with anything else, it might do I have not looked at it in ages |
| 19:41.09 | Serdar | there is no need, maybe for macOS and Unix itself |
| 19:41.25 | tig| | it probably does as iirc it just turns the fr into a bluetooth hid device |
| 19:47.02 | Serdar | hmm I wanted to buy a wii remote for presentations, but this sounds funny too |
| 19:49.16 | johnsu01 | So, I'm still trying to figure out what is supposed to provide this input.pc pkg-config file that ecore-x is complaining about |
| 19:52.37 | *** join/#openmoko jonsmith1982 (n=jon@82-38-88-58.cable.ubr01.donc.blueyonder.co.uk) |
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| 19:59.18 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: Hey. I'm back. :) |
| 20:00.57 | balrog-kun | tries to remember what the best way was to charge the gta batteries after not using it for quite a while |
| 20:01.31 | balrog-kun | in particular whether it was better to charge in the gta01 or 02 and whether it was better to have the device on or off during charging |
| 20:02.14 | PaulFertser | balrog-kun: there's some info on the wiki, search for flat battery |
| 20:02.40 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: To erase bonding, you just supply an extra dummy parameter to simple-agent |
| 20:02.49 | balrog-kun | PaulFertser: hopefully they aren't flat |
| 20:02.57 | mmontour | it depends. If you have a GTA02 battery that's completely dead, I would put it into a gta01 (off, plugged into USB) for about 15 minutes and then see if it has enough juice to boot your gta02 into Linux |
| 20:03.10 | balrog-kun | i just need to charge 3 of them before tomorrow (setting out on a travel and will need a gps) |
| 20:03.22 | tig| | balrog-kun: if you have a nokia battery around of the same size then boot off that then while plugged into the mains adaptor swap the batteries over :) |
| 20:04.06 | balrog-kun | they are two gta01 batts and a nokia battery that is possible dead (and possibly can't be charged anymore), but the gta01 ones should be both okay and not flat |
| 20:04.10 | tig| | once the batteries have a bit of juice in them the freerunner should be able to switch to fast charge mode even when off (this is from memory) |
| 20:05.24 | balrog-kun | sweeps the dust off the cases :p |
| 20:05.32 | PaulFertser | balrog-kun: if you have gta02, then boot it until it negotiates 500mA via USB and charge all batteries hotswapping. |
| 20:06.15 | mmontour | he can charge in parallel (once booted), one in gta01 and one in gta02 (each at 500mA) |
| 20:06.19 | balrog-kun | PaulFertser: booting up to u-boot menu should be enough i think? |
| 20:06.25 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: Yeah, finally broke down and started reading the code and figured that out. :P |
| 20:06.36 | PaulFertser | mmontour: i'm afraid gta01 wouldn't like hot-swapping or is it ok? |
| 20:06.46 | mmontour | you can't hot-swap on gta01 |
| 20:07.16 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: i told you about the dummy parameter several times already ;) Do you use away-log? |
| 20:08.07 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: I never actually _set_ myself as away. |
| 20:08.47 | *** join/#openmoko GovCon_ (n=GC@cpc2-tref2-0-0-cust503.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:09.18 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: ha-ha, always online, makes you feel better, doesn't it? ;) |
| 20:09.49 | Digital_Pioneer | Meh, I just don't think about it. |
| 20:11.30 | balrog-kun | yup, the batteries still had juice :) |
| 20:11.43 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: so, are you going to actually try gsm calls with the latest FSO version? |
| 20:12.23 | balrog-kun | wonders if the battery meter will work with new kernels... last time i used the gta02 it wouldn't work possibly because it's a v3 |
| 20:12.33 | balrog-kun | and a gta01 battery |
| 20:13.26 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: Uhh, just plain old boring GSM? |
| 20:13.59 | Digital_Pioneer | SHR uses FSO, no? So I guess I do that all the time. |
| 20:15.14 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: voip over bluetooth is more tricky, nobody actually implemented all the stuff to do it in a clean way, but i can give you some hints. But i'm not sure if alsa plugin works well with SCO and therefore i can't tell if any voip app will be able to use it. |
| 20:16.15 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: I don't use VOIP, seeing as I don't have GPRS. |
| 20:16.20 | Digital_Pioneer | Just GSM. |
| 20:17.06 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: yes, gsm. But you need recent framework for that. Do you already have that? |
| 20:18.55 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: Yeah, it finally updated. |
| 20:19.32 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: you need to tell framework you have a headset. Use SetBTHeadsetAddress on org.freesmartphone.Phone. |
| 20:19.33 | *** join/#openmoko DorX (n=freak@p5B3B2F97.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:19.47 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: and enable it with SetBTHeadsetEnabled |
| 20:20.28 | mickey|tv | balrog-kun: hey, good to see you're back. can we expect the tickless clock soon? word is on the street, the kernel will get into its final stabilization phase |
| 20:21.58 | balrog-kun | mickey|tv: oh, maybe during the trip, i'll remember to clone the kernel tree on my laptop |
| 20:22.03 | balrog-kun | i'm leaving in the morning |
| 20:22.09 | mickey|tv | cool |
| 20:22.13 | mickey|tv | thanks |
| 20:23.32 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: Just to be sure, uhh, frameworkd should be running right? So `pgrep frameworkd` should give a PID? |
| 20:23.39 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: :) |
| 20:23.49 | *** join/#openmoko zer (i=4f9c8e4a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f3de56f94ee0a64b) |
| 20:24.05 | *** join/#openmoko vininim (n=vininim@pdpc/supporter/student/vininim) |
| 20:24.06 | Digital_Pioneer | frameworkd exits with 255 a few seconds after I run it. |
| 20:24.13 | Digital_Pioneer | That could be problematic, no? |
| 20:24.18 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: run it from the console to see the output |
| 20:24.20 | zer | when my openmoko reboots it only displays the logo nothing happends but if i press the aux button i get into the menu and choose flash it works fine |
| 20:24.28 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: It has none. |
| 20:24.58 | tig| | zer have you attempted to flash uboot or qi recently? |
| 20:25.08 | zer | tig|: no |
| 20:25.26 | *** join/#openmoko Deubeuliou (n=Deubeuli@AFontenayssB-151-1-44-32.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:25.30 | mmontour | zer: does it make a difference if the phone is plugged into a PC over USB when you reboot it? |
| 20:25.34 | balrog-kun | mickey|tv: i suppose we want it in andy-tracking first, not against mainline? |
| 20:25.38 | Digital_Pioneer | FTR, I have frameworkd 0.8.5.1+gitr1227+fb14e3806f166d067ad0d961efa3f44aba3b0ef4-r0 |
| 20:25.38 | zer | i have only updated uboot once, when i got my phone and it was becuase it did not work at the time |
| 20:25.42 | zer | hmm |
| 20:25.45 | zer | mmontour: yes maybe |
| 20:25.49 | balrog-kun | mickey|tv: probably there aren't big differences there, but just to be sure |
| 20:25.51 | mickey|tv | balrog-kun: correct. andy-tracking will become the new stable one |
| 20:26.00 | mmontour | there was an old u-boot bug that would do that |
| 20:26.04 | mickey|tv | i expect very few changes in the future to andy-tracking |
| 20:26.10 | mickey|tv | so we have a chance to finally get something solid |
| 20:26.29 | PaulFertser | mickey|tv: what about getting something upstream? |
| 20:26.41 | zer | i booted it without the usb cable, it still just displays the openmoko logo |
| 20:26.41 | mickey|tv | balaji still working on that iirc |
| 20:26.48 | zer | i have to remove the battery to reboot it |
| 20:27.02 | PaulFertser | mickey|tv: i mean if it won't track upstream so closely, it can be more and more hard to do that... |
| 20:28.07 | mickey|tv | true |
| 20:28.20 | mickey|tv | but i'd rather have something completely diverged than tracking upstream forever |
| 20:28.24 | mickey|tv | i'm getting old |
| 20:28.27 | mickey|tv | i want a solid kernel |
| 20:28.31 | mickey|tv | and i don't care whether it's a bit old |
| 20:28.33 | mickey|tv | sorry |
| 20:28.40 | zer | haha |
| 20:28.48 | zer | old geezer |
| 20:28.52 | mmontour | zer: I have to go to a meeting now but I'll check back later if you're still having trouble |
| 20:28.52 | PaulFertser | And end with something like handhelds obsolete kernels for plenty of cool devices? |
| 20:29.05 | zer | mmontour: ok |
| 20:29.07 | zer | thanks |
| 20:29.09 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: So what do I do when frameworkd exits without any output? :\ |
| 20:29.35 | mickey|tv | PaulFertser: the problem with handhelds kernel was that it was never finished _and_ diverging from upstream |
| 20:29.42 | mickey|tv | i don't care as long as everyhing works |
| 20:29.52 | mickey|tv | then i don't care about diverging any longer |
| 20:29.56 | mickey|tv | anyways, back to wifey |
| 20:29.57 | mickey|tv | l8er |
| 20:30.00 | PaulFertser | :) |
| 20:32.01 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03Sebastian 07libeflvala * r6ac870676f97 10/vapi/evas.vapi: evas/elm name_get|set |
| 20:35.02 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: ok, you version is recent enough. As to the silent exit... It shouldn't do it silently. Was your upgrade smooth? |
| 20:35.18 | Digital_Pioneer | Yeah. |
| 20:35.41 | Digital_Pioneer | http://pastebin.ca/1366494 <<< python -v /usr/bin/frameworkd |
| 20:37.32 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
| 20:38.40 | Digital_Pioneer | I stole its configuration file, and it complained, but when I gave it an empty one, it still complained but also said this: |
| 20:38.48 | Digital_Pioneer | 2009.03.20 15:37:51.618 frameworkd.controller ERROR dbus bus name org.freesmartphone.frameworkd already claimed. Exiting. |
| 20:39.18 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: it means frameworkd already running. |
| 20:39.45 | Digital_Pioneer | shrugs. How do I know? :P |
| 20:39.58 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=christoo@89-212-223-216.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net) |
| 20:40.05 | Digital_Pioneer | Ahh, pgrep just doesn't find it. |
| 20:40.33 | Digital_Pioneer | After the long, arduous task of writing ps aux | grep frameworkd, I finally found it... Hahah |
| 20:41.50 | DocScrutinizer | pgrep wtf |
| 20:43.07 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: OK, I'm playing with mdbus here, there doesn't appear to be an org.freesmartphone.Phone |
| 20:43.24 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: on the org.freesmartphone.ophoned bus? |
| 20:43.42 | Digital_Pioneer | Oh, ophoned |
| 20:43.49 | Digital_Pioneer | Yeah, GSM stuff |
| 20:44.45 | Digital_Pioneer | So, since I've never really used mdbus before (except copy and paste) how do I do this exactly? :\ |
| 20:46.01 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: use mdbus -s to see available buses. Use mdbus -s bus to see available interfaces. Use mdbus -s bus interface to see available functions. Use mdbus -s bus interface function function arguments |
| 20:46.37 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: All /org/freesmartphone/Phone/ has is GSM stuff |
| 20:47.37 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: have you actually restarted frameworkd after you upgraded? |
| 20:48.12 | Digital_Pioneer | Well, it was SUPPOSED to do it automatically. |
| 20:48.25 | Digital_Pioneer | But somewhere along the way, /var/run/frameworkd.pid got screwed up. Fixed it. |
| 20:50.03 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03Sebastian 07libeflvala * r3b35a90b8056 10/vapi/evas.vapi: return of const *char translates to a 'weak string' or we free too much. this works now. |
| 20:50.03 | Digital_Pioneer | Ack, I'm just gonna reboot the thing. LOL |
| 20:50.08 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: only the frameworkd |
| 20:51.05 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host26-28-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:51.07 | Digital_Pioneer | No, I'm rebooting the phone. Restarting frameworkd seems to have confused things. |
| 20:51.22 | Digital_Pioneer | It wouldn't make calls anymore. |
| 20:54.21 | mmontour | zer: I'm back. Still having that booting problem? |
| 20:55.28 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: OK, it's acting normal again now. But /org/freesmartphone/Phone appears to be empty. |
| 20:55.53 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: same for me... Let me look... |
| 20:56.59 | DocScrutinizer | swears. tape of 100 0402 and no idea of type of component |
| 20:58.21 | *** part/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
| 21:00.08 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: looks like headset.py line 103 causes problems... |
| 21:00.38 | *** join/#openmoko DorX (n=freak@p5B3B2F97.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:00.49 | *** part/#openmoko DorX (n=freak@p5B3B2F97.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 21:02.14 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: Should I have that somewhere? |
| 21:02.45 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: in the frameworkd log |
| 21:02.46 | *** join/#openmoko AntonTak1 (n=AntonTak@poolofdespair.net) |
| 21:03.38 | Digital_Pioneer | Ugh, can I get a real `less` on this thing?... :( |
| 21:04.17 | *** join/#openmoko azaghal (n=azaghal@91.148.112.250) |
| 21:04.56 | DocScrutinizer | kicks ass busybox >:-( |
| 21:05.19 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: to me it was python2.5 incompatibility |
| 21:06.09 | Blu3 | how many of each of these enlightenment modules, i.e. wifiget, batget etc, should be running? multiple copies of each? |
| 21:06.26 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.ophoned /org/freesmartphone/Phone works for me |
| 21:07.06 | Digital_Pioneer | Yeah, works for me too, but how was I supposed to know I was supposed to do that? Hahah |
| 21:07.15 | Digital_Pioneer | I'm stupid, remember? ;D |
| 21:08.02 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.ophoned /org/freesmartphone/Phone org.freesmartphone.Phone.SetBTHeadsetAddress 00:11:22 ? |
| 21:08.23 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: btw, you should use at least part of the new rules.yaml file |
| 21:08.38 | Digital_Pioneer | OK, where do I get it? |
| 21:09.20 | *** join/#openmoko azaghal_ (n=azaghal@183.229.178.212.adsl.dyn.beotel.net) |
| 21:10.35 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: in git it's in etc/freesmartphone/oeventsd, you should have http://pastebin.com/m2938e4 |
| 21:13.12 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: And that totally replaces the "while: CallStatus()" section I had before? |
| 21:13.33 | Digital_Pioneer | Or adds onto it? |
| 21:14.20 | vininim | lxde defaults for a phone is not adequate |
| 21:14.31 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: http://pastebin.com/m22fab501 |
| 21:15.20 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: and don't forget to call org.freesmartphone.Phone.SetBTHeadsetEnabled |
| 21:17.40 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03Sebastian 07libeflvala * rf34ef380ce5c 10/vapi/evas.vapi: add Evas.Object.visible_get(). Tested. |
| 21:17.50 | Digital_Pioneer | OK, do I restart frameworkd after changing rules.yaml? |
| 21:17.53 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: yes |
| 21:19.00 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: and repeat the calls to SetBTHeadsetAddress and then to SetBTHeadsetEnabled |
| 21:19.16 | Digital_Pioneer | I haven't made them yet... Heheh |
| 21:19.51 | Digital_Pioneer | Does it take frameworkd a while to get back on its feet or something?... |
| 21:20.06 | Digital_Pioneer | Ahh, yes, there they are. |
| 21:21.05 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.233.153.156) |
| 21:21.18 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@adsl-99-2-134-30.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:23.36 | *** join/#openmoko illyia (n=Sypho@d54C39937.access.telenet.be) |
| 21:25.20 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: So theoretically, BT should work after doing all that? |
| 21:25.55 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: yes |
| 21:26.44 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: provided you have a good statefile. I don't know if the stock one is good enough, but you can at least try. |
| 21:29.06 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: Restarting frameworkd killed my phone... |
| 21:29.12 | Digital_Pioneer | It won't make calls anymore. |
| 21:29.23 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: but at least you'll hear static in your headset during calls, even if the state file is incorrect |
| 21:29.28 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: read the frameworkd log |
| 21:30.03 | Digital_Pioneer | Ahh, my headset beeped, which means something connected to it... On restarting frameworkd. |
| 21:30.40 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: you need to use http://www.robsims.com/GSMBLUETOOTH.txt state file. Wait a bit, i'll tell you how it should be called. |
| 21:31.45 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: it should be called gsmbluetooth.state |
| 21:31.56 | Digital_Pioneer | Failed to handle dbus error: Resource Device is not enabled, current status is 'disabled', 69 (dbus-glib-error-quark), code32 |
| 21:32.03 | Digital_Pioneer | From dialer. |
| 21:32.42 | *** join/#openmoko Inc_Vega3 (n=dpopov@91.195.136.14) |
| 21:32.43 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: you might need to restart ophonekitd after restarting frameworkd. |
| 21:33.07 | Digital_Pioneer | Is there a good way to do that, other than killing it and starting it again? |
| 21:33.19 | *** join/#openmoko Q-Master (n=qmaster@78.111.152.196) |
| 21:33.24 | Inc_Vega3 | Hi all |
| 21:33.29 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: i still don't know :) |
| 21:33.34 | Digital_Pioneer | Hahah |
| 21:33.37 | *** join/#openmoko tomer (n=tomer@89-138-95-70.bb.netvision.net.il) |
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| 21:34.01 | Digital_Pioneer | waits for GSM to reregister. |
| 21:35.19 | Q-Master | Hi All! |
| 21:35.36 | Digital_Pioneer | Hi |
| 21:36.34 | Inc_Vega3 | Does we have stable project currently on the Neo ? I mean use Neo as usual phone ? |
| 21:36.52 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: Ugh, now the dbus call is erroring. |
| 21:36.58 | Digital_Pioneer | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:37.51 | Inc_Vega3 | any update , |
| 21:37.53 | Inc_Vega3 | ? |
| 21:38.05 | *** part/#openmoko jlmoko (n=jluis@58.Red-83-56-231.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 21:38.31 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: anything in the log? |
| 21:39.53 | mmontour | Inc_Vega3: some people (not me) are using the FR as their only phone. There is still lots of work to be done before it can really be called consumer-ready. "SHR" seems to be the most popular distribution at the moment. |
| 21:40.11 | *** join/#openmoko dolf1074 (n=ibex@d51A515D7.access.telenet.be) |
| 21:40.26 | Inc_Vega3 | good |
| 21:40.33 | Inc_Vega3 | still wait |
| 21:40.41 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: probably you're trying to set address while headset is already enabled? |
| 21:40.58 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: Looks like it. So disable first? |
| 21:41.04 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: i guess |
| 21:42.05 | Inc_Vega3 | I can see gentoo is developing :) |
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| 21:50.21 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: have you stored the state file in the right place with the right name? |
| 21:51.29 | Digital_Pioneer | I think. |
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| 21:53.25 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: ok, so does anything work? :) |
| 21:53.34 | *** join/#openmoko StOrM_NW (n=Josias@alm.nlink.com.br) |
| 21:55.10 | Digital_Pioneer | GOT STATIC! Checking over statefile again. |
| 21:55.23 | *** join/#openmoko tomer_ (n=tomer@89-138-95-70.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 21:58.17 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: OK, it's definitely trying to do something, I fixed the statefile to the one you liked me and now I hear no static or crackling, but when I terminate the call, the headset beeps as it does when the call ends. |
| 21:58.43 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: and when you initiate the call, it bips like the call starts? |
| 21:59.04 | Inc_Vega3 | what about android currently |
| 21:59.12 | Inc_Vega3 | is it stable or.. ? |
| 21:59.18 | PaulFertser | Inc_Vega3: android is not for hackers |
| 21:59.23 | PaulFertser | Inc_Vega3: therefore it sucks ;) |
| 21:59.58 | Inc_Vega3 | )) |
| 22:00.04 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: No, but I don't know whether this headset does that or not. :P |
| 22:00.46 | *** join/#openmoko _charly_ (i=kroseneg@sunrise.schmidham.net) |
| 22:01.04 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: hm, the headset i have hear doesn't produce any sound when i try to feed it SCO data. And the other i borrowed at work works with the same setup... |
| 22:01.19 | Digital_Pioneer | Ahh, crackling now. |
| 22:02.06 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: (i mean it does produce only noise of the amplifier and beeps on connection and disconnection) |
| 22:02.08 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: Should I have created some pcm in asound.conf first? |
| 22:02.08 | Inc_Vega3 | PaulFertser: what installed on your Neo ? |
| 22:02.59 | PaulFertser | Inc_Vega3: Debian GNU/Linux |
| 22:03.33 | Serdar | oh |
| 22:03.34 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: no, you should have downloaded the file i gave you a link to and saved in /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios/gsmbluetooth.state |
| 22:03.39 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: or smth like that |
| 22:03.42 | Inc_Vega3 | ][acker :)))))) |
| 22:03.43 | Serdar | my openmoko directory is 14G big |
| 22:03.55 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: That I did. |
| 22:03.58 | Digital_Pioneer | So what now? :P |
| 22:04.03 | PaulFertser | Inc_Vega3: i'm not really a hacker. But android still sucks :p |
| 22:04.36 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: so, you initiate the call and hear crackling sound, yes? |
| 22:04.49 | *** part/#openmoko gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) |
| 22:05.25 | Digital_Pioneer | Yes. |
| 22:05.38 | Inc_Vega3 | just I want use Neo like usual phone |
| 22:05.49 | Inc_Vega3 | during 4 month it is impossble! |
| 22:06.07 | Digital_Pioneer | Not to say I'm not excited, I mean, it's actually trying, but I kinda need a voice... :P |
| 22:06.17 | Inc_Vega3 | currently it is brick |
| 22:07.16 | Q-Master | was trying to use Neo with dead mic. 8) |
| 22:07.17 | PaulFertser | Inc_Vega3: what a strange idea, to use Neo like a usual phone. |
| 22:07.35 | PaulFertser | Inc_Vega3: ;) |
| 22:07.45 | PaulFertser | Inc_Vega3: i use it as my only cell phone from November |
| 22:08.02 | Inc_Vega3 | PaulFertser yes you are right it is strange idea :) |
| 22:08.18 | PaulFertser | Inc_Vega3: why don't you install shr and try it yourself? |
| 22:08.28 | Inc_Vega3 | I will |
| 22:08.44 | Digital_Pioneer | PaulFertser: !!!! How do I make it STOP using bluetooth?.. |
| 22:08.49 | Digital_Pioneer | Someone's trying to call me. LOL |
| 22:09.08 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: SetBTHeadsetEnabled 0 |
| 22:09.57 | Digital_Pioneer | It's not working... |
| 22:09.58 | Inc_Vega3 | does in HSR wi-fi works as well ? |
| 22:10.17 | PaulFertser | Inc_Vega3: as well as what? |
| 22:10.58 | Inc_Vega3 | I mean if I need chagne SSID it is possible ? |
| 22:11.30 | PaulFertser | Inc_Vega3: why not? I think there is no distro where iwconfig doesn't work. |
| 22:12.26 | *** join/#openmoko wanders (i=andersg@0x63.nu) |
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| 22:12.39 | Inc_Vega3 | i know, any way :) |
| 22:13.03 | PaulFertser | Digital_Pioneer: what is the sound from the headset during call like? Does it look like some sample size/type mismatch? |
| 22:13.50 | PaulFertser | Inc_Vega3: no, really, do you know of any specific problems with ESSID? |
| 22:13.55 | Digital_Pioneer | Ack gotta run. BBL. |
| 22:14.22 | PaulFertser | I'll Be sleeping latel. |
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| 22:35.21 | PaulFertser | Inc_Vega3: have you already fixed the buzz? |
| 22:35.58 | PaulFertser | Inc_Vega3: do you know if anybody in Moscow except me has already done that? |
| 22:36.35 | SpeedEvil | PaulFert1er_: oh - I was wandering round my local town centre (40k pop) and found a mobile phone repair shop |
| 22:36.42 | SpeedEvil | PaulFert1er_: strictly parts swapping |
| 22:36.53 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: no smt rework at all? |
| 22:36.56 | SpeedEvil | nope |
| 22:37.21 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: bad luck. Do you have any chineese or turkish places? |
| 22:37.29 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 22:37.52 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: like separate districts :) |
| 22:37.55 | SpeedEvil | Oh - right. No |
| 22:38.02 | SpeedEvil | Anyway - it was purely curiosity. |
| 22:38.14 | SpeedEvil | I've got a SMT rework station in the lounge. |
| 22:38.34 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: i guess you're not going to disclose the country you're in, are you? |
| 22:38.39 | SpeedEvil | UK |
| 22:38.48 | SpeedEvil | Scotland, Glenrothes was the town in question |
| 22:39.52 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: loosers :p |
| 22:40.35 | SpeedEvil | PaulFert1er_: there is probably actually places in town that can do it - but historically (1970-1990) there was lots of electronic manufacture. |
| 22:40.45 | SpeedEvil | There is even a MEMs fab 6 miles from me. |
| 22:41.11 | SpeedEvil | And RoDime started up in the teeny little unit next to my parents jewlery buisness. |
| 22:41.24 | SpeedEvil | (first PC drive maker) |
| 22:41.43 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: so, your point is that it's actually hard to fix buzz living in a devoloped country, right? |
| 22:42.16 | SpeedEvil | I'm saying that I haven't ever seen a shop that might do it on the street. |
| 22:42.30 | PaulFertser | wonders how come there's like 100 freerunner owners in Moscow and we don't usually see anybody here |
| 22:42.31 | Q-Master | PaulFertser: I've done a buzzfix. 8) |
| 22:42.38 | SpeedEvil | The few TV/... shops that might have attempted it have shut maybe 10 years ago |
| 22:42.43 | Q-Master | PaulFertser: almost in Moscow |
| 22:42.53 | *** join/#openmoko SiNiESTrO (n=siniestr@179.Red-80-33-148.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 22:42.58 | SpeedEvil | For those that care. http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=56.21685,-3.112119&spn=0.001656,0.004308&t=h&z=18 |
| 22:43.11 | PaulFertser | Q-Master: have you done it yourself? |
| 22:43.14 | SpeedEvil | I offer freerunner rework for free, in exchange for moving 15 tons of gravel. |
| 22:43.28 | *** join/#openmoko tomer_ (n=tomer@89-138-95-70.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 22:43.48 | Q-Master | PaulFertser: nop. My friend helped me. He also switched the mic on my Neo, which was dead 8( |
| 22:43.57 | SpeedEvil | will provide barrow and shovel. |
| 22:44.35 | Q-Master | PaulFertser: It is not so hard BTW. 8) |
| 22:46.07 | PaulFertser | Q-Master: i know, but it's not hard for those who did some SMT work before. And apparently it's hard to find any real repair shop in developed countries. :( |
| 22:46.22 | SpeedEvil | Labour costs are too high. |
| 22:46.34 | Q-Master | PaulFertser: That's true. |
| 22:47.01 | SpeedEvil | A skilled rework tech might make what - 25 quid an hour? (random guess) Which means they need to bill the customer some 50/hour minimum. And that's assuming there is constant work coming in - which there won't be |
| 22:47.06 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: and here we can find someone who does BGA reballing easily... |
| 22:47.13 | Q-Master | BTW, does OM abandoned qtopia in their Neo build? |
| 22:47.29 | PaulFertser | Q-Master: they never supported it directly. |
| 22:47.35 | SpeedEvil | PaulFert1er_: yeah - but how many hours average wage is a mid-range phone. |
| 22:47.37 | PaulFertser | Q-Master: only a qtopia on x11 fork |
| 22:47.47 | Q-Master | I meant that |
| 22:48.30 | Q-Master | It seems that there is no qtopia on x11 in unstable and experimental branches in repo |
| 22:48.45 | PaulFertser | Q-Master: they abandoned it long time ago |
| 22:49.00 | Q-Master | Too bad. It had a good PIM |
| 22:49.25 | Q-Master | I was forced to write a patch for Zhone to use sqlite db to store contacts |
| 22:49.26 | PaulFertser | Q-Master: do you know if those guys from bytestore are going to support it? |
| 22:49.32 | *** join/#openmoko DrRabbit (n=xchat@ip68-99-219-29.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 22:49.32 | Q-Master | primitive of cource |
| 22:49.52 | Q-Master | Never asked them about. |
| 22:50.04 | *** join/#openmoko d-b (n=alias@124-171-21-185.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 22:50.19 | Q-Master | I think I'll try to update zhone as much as I can. |
| 22:50.26 | PaulFertser | Q-Master: i mean, is there probably a place (web-forum?) where russian "community" does anything good? |
| 22:50.33 | Q-Master | Simple work has been done. |
| 22:50.55 | Q-Master | PaulFertser: http://www.linuxphone.ru/forum ? |
| 22:50.56 | PaulFertser | Q-Master: why don't you want to help SHR guys instead of tweaking demo app? ;) |
| 22:51.14 | Q-Master | PaulFertser: I never seen SHR yet |
| 22:51.15 | PaulFertser | Q-Master: yes, this one, i guess. But it sucks so much (as all web-forums do), that i don't visit it. |
| 22:51.18 | DocScrutinizer | zhone is a test environment |
| 22:51.20 | *** join/#openmoko khorben (n=khorben@AVelizy-155-1-99-57.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:51.55 | Q-Master | What tool does SHR use to phone and sms? |
| 22:52.21 | Q-Master | BTW I'm also playing with virtual keyboard now. I don't like the illume one. 8( |
| 22:52.34 | Q-Master | it is not finger friendly at all |
| 22:52.34 | PaulFertser | Q-Master: it has ophonekitd that is used by SHR dialer and sms app. Based on FSO. |
| 22:52.55 | Q-Master | Need to try. |
| 22:53.39 | Q-Master | PaulFertser: http://openmoko.spb.ru/ ? |
| 22:53.47 | Q-Master | bytestore's home. 8) |
| 22:54.02 | PaulFertser | Q-Master: web-forum again |
| 22:54.04 | Q-Master | A little bit dead. 8) |
| 22:54.18 | PaulFertser | Q-Master: web-forum users are on drugs |
| 22:54.24 | Q-Master | not all |
| 22:54.30 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 22:54.34 | Q-Master | not |
| 22:54.48 | SpeedEvil | bemoans the death of usenet. |
| 22:54.53 | SpeedEvil | (pretty much) |
| 22:54.54 | max_posedon | too many empty forums.... |
| 22:55.38 | max_posedon | I sometimes think, that count of forums for FR bigger than count of FR's |
| 22:56.18 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: hahaha, i'm lucky to never visit them :) I can imagine the level of insaneness there. |
| 22:57.09 | Q-Master | PaulFertser: you should try. linuxphones is a normal one. |
| 22:57.18 | *** join/#openmoko tomer (n=tomer@89-138-95-70.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 22:57.19 | Q-Master | with some stranges, but... |
| 22:57.34 | max_posedon | Q-Master, sorry, no it don't) |
| 22:57.41 | Dave | Master P! |
| 22:58.28 | Q-Master | Sitting in nowhere is not a good choice |
| 22:58.31 | Q-Master | anyway |
| 22:58.50 | max_posedon | nowhere?) but I'm here) |
| 22:58.51 | PaulFertser | Q-Master: there can't be a normal web-forum, because the idea to abuse http/html trying to do what NNTP was designed for (and e-mail works decently too) is fucked up. |
| 22:59.11 | SpeedEvil | and lack of global archiving and client flexibility |
| 22:59.12 | DocScrutinizer | ponders about S/N and sanity on [community] |
| 22:59.13 | SpeedEvil | which sucks |
| 22:59.35 | Q-Master | hehe |
| 22:59.35 | SpeedEvil | x.random.forum.com - you're stuck with their interface |
| 22:59.58 | SpeedEvil | misc.a.usenet.group - you can use anything |
| 23:00.00 | *** join/#openmoko khorben (n=khorben@90.35.30.57) |
| 23:00.03 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: or you have to do stupid tricks like greasemonkey scripts. |
| 23:00.18 | SpeedEvil | from telnet, to graphical clients that animate all the text, and add pretty colours. |
| 23:00.47 | Q-Master | Fidonet roxx. 8) |
| 23:01.01 | PaulFertser | Oh now, all my text is animated, i guess accidently eated the wrong mushroom. |
| 23:01.05 | DocScrutinizer | (scripts) HUUUAAALP |
| 23:01.45 | PaulFertser | Q-Master: yeah |
| 23:02.09 | Dave | :O |
| 23:02.25 | Q-Master | we need to compile binkd and golded for neo. 8) |
| 23:02.44 | max_posedon | Main problem with all this forums, is that only 5% visitors know about what they sleak, all others just creating flood. |
| 23:02.48 | *** join/#openmoko StOrM_NW (n=Josias@alm.nlink.com.br) |
| 23:02.51 | vininim | do we have a usetnet group? |
| 23:03.01 | max_posedon | *about what they speak* |
| 23:03.03 | PaulFertser | Q-Master: i'd prefer to use gnus |
| 23:03.15 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: wikipedia for FIDOnet :) |
| 23:03.42 | PaulFertser | vininim: gmane NNTP interface is ok, btw |
| 23:03.47 | Q-Master | prefers an Amiga to access a fido |
| 23:04.12 | vininim | gmane archive web interface is stupid |
| 23:04.20 | max_posedon | PaulFertser, I'm too young to know anything about fido, and don't understand any jokes about it) |
| 23:04.28 | mmontour | so don't use the web interface |
| 23:04.31 | PaulFertser | vininim: but NNTP works ok |
| 23:04.39 | vininim | checks |
| 23:04.47 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: gmane sucks as well. particularly NNTP |
| 23:04.49 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: we just mentioned popular fido software. |
| 23:05.04 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: how that? I use it all the time. |
| 23:05.15 | max_posedon | nntp comes from fido? |
| 23:05.33 | DocScrutinizer | so you drastically fixed some of your settings |
| 23:05.36 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: no, but you can emulate it. |
| 23:06.29 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: I guess i only added ignoring of Reply-To header that community mailing list admin ABUSES for no good reason. But that is needed for a regular MUA as well. |
| 23:07.08 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, never bothered me |
| 23:07.21 | PaulFertser | dislikes stupidity so much and forging reply-to header is plain stupid and pointless and also harmful. |
| 23:07.43 | Dave | DANGER WILL ROBINSON |
| 23:07.55 | PaulFertser | Dave: prove me wrong |
| 23:08.09 | Dave | I dare not! |
| 23:08.19 | PaulFertser | Ahahaha |
| 23:08.27 | PaulFertser | (evil laugh) |
| 23:08.42 | Dave | DrEvilPaulFertser |
| 23:09.15 | DocScrutinizer | Reply-To: List for Openmoko community discussion <community@lists.openmoko.org> |
| 23:09.22 | DocScrutinizer | what's wrong with that? |
| 23:09.41 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: it's forged |
| 23:09.48 | DocScrutinizer | huh? |
| 23:10.32 | Q-Master | Returning to phone sw. What are the normal dialer/sms/pim now? |
| 23:10.44 | Q-Master | not demo, not abandoned |
| 23:10.55 | *** join/#openmoko tomer__ (n=tomer@89-138-95-70.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 23:11.13 | PaulFertser | Q-Master: SHR |
| 23:11.29 | Q-Master | and that's all??? |
| 23:11.31 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: here's the detailed description: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html |
| 23:11.41 | Q-Master | PaulFertser: url? |
| 23:11.55 | PaulFertser | Q-Master: shr-project.org |
| 23:12.26 | PaulFertser | Q-Master: also gentoo and Debian, but they all aim to use FSO and probably SHR apps for the end-user interface. |
| 23:12.47 | Q-Master | seems that debian uses zhone |
| 23:12.57 | Blu3 | argg. ok, what library holds elm_list_go() symbol now? |
| 23:13.01 | PaulFertser | Q-Master: Debian lacks recent enough e17 libs to run shr :( |
| 23:13.46 | *** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:16.16 | *** join/#openmoko muxe (n=muxe@i577B6E9A.versanet.de) |
| 23:16.51 | SpeedEvil | http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=103102840187268825196.0004538c812787823283d&ll=56.216987,-3.11221&spn=0.000828,0.002154&t=h&z=19 |
| 23:16.53 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 23:18.15 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: I frequently find replies on onther lists to replies that never showed up on the list. In Germany we call this DAU, noob or luser just a weak translation. On [community] this won't happen by accident. Still it's easy as milk to send a mail directly to OP (if you *really* want to do, what is strongly deprecated on ML) |
| 23:19.18 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: if a reply from the person that can't use his MUA never hits the list, i guess it's for good. |
| 23:20.11 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: so *this* is the added benefit of *not* adding a reply-to ? c'mon! |
| 23:20.16 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: and if a person is not subscribed to the list but sends there a message he will never recieve any replies because of this stupidity. |
| 23:20.43 | DocScrutinizer | too bad |
| 23:20.45 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: reply-to shouldn't be added because it's plain wrong and breaks many assumptions. |
| 23:21.05 | DocScrutinizer | I prefer him not getting he answer, than the ML not getting the answer |
| 23:21.08 | Dave | Doctor Joerg! |
| 23:21.22 | Dave | DocBreakage |
| 23:21.28 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: i really prefer ML not getting the answer from those who can't use MUA properly. |
| 23:21.29 | Dave | /nick |
| 23:21.30 | Dave | oops |
| 23:22.38 | DocScrutinizer | honestly, I don't care, as I always "answer to all" and get my ML per IMAP, and send per POP3. GMANE *SUCKS* ;D |
| 23:23.10 | *** join/#openmoko khorben (n=khorben@APuteaux-552-1-115-57.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 23:23.16 | Blu3 | you send with pop3? |
| 23:23.18 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: i sent via SMTP. And read via gmane/NNTP. And it works good for me so far. |
| 23:23.27 | DocScrutinizer | sorry |
| 23:23.33 | DocScrutinizer | yeahyeahyeah |
| 23:23.45 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: is roh the admin? |
| 23:23.49 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 23:24.08 | mmontour | I only use gmane/NNTP (with Thunderbird as a client) and it works fine for me. |
| 23:24.12 | Blu3 | do you (guys) have a working mail app on gta2/shr? using imaps? |
| 23:24.20 | PaulFertser | roh: ABUSING reply-to SUCKS and you know it ;) |
| 23:24.58 | DocScrutinizer | lol, yeah let's start a flamewar. It's Friday eve after all :D |
| 23:25.24 | PaulFertser | roh: breaking something that works for real users to workaround problems in inadequate users is plain wrong. |
| 23:25.58 | PaulFertser | "Let's build a snowman" (Cannibal. The Musical!) |
| 23:27.13 | PaulFertser | roh: if userspace is wrong, should we implement kernel workarounds? If users are wrong, should we really try to workaround it by breaking RFCs and assumptions of reasonable users? |
| 23:27.21 | *** join/#openmoko tomer_ (n=tomer@89-138-95-70.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 23:28.45 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: roh needs facts, not questions of epic diversity ;). Odds are you already triggered his filter ;D |
| 23:29.07 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: header forging is fact. |
| 23:29.42 | *** join/#openmoko Dominus (i=unices@195-241-252-199.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 23:29.51 | PaulFertser | Forging is wrong. Roh is forging headers. Roh is wrong. ;) |
| 23:29.59 | Dominus | /join #lad |
| 23:30.01 | Dominus | Doh |
| 23:30.30 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: roh is sysop. |
| 23:31.02 | DocScrutinizer | he's not forging anything ;-) |
| 23:31.38 | DocScrutinizer | mailman does |
| 23:31.45 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: i'm not typing anything. It's my hand typing. |
| 23:31.53 | *** join/#openmoko atsui (n=atsui@sjs-130-65-109-105.sjsu.edu) |
| 23:33.22 | Dave | mmontour! |
| 23:33.29 | mmontour | ? |
| 23:33.35 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: if you read *only* the lines starting "roh: " do you think you'd get the topic? |
| 23:33.37 | Dave | gmane user? |
| 23:33.57 | Dave | works fine with t-bird? |
| 23:34.22 | mmontour | yeah, works fine and makes it easy to skip over the pointless threads on 'community'. |
| 23:35.07 | *** join/#openmoko fradeve (n=fradeve@87.18.29.183) |
| 23:35.20 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: and you for sure can't tell *who* decided to have that reply-to: on [community]. So maybe it's a little rude to roh. |
| 23:35.20 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: yeah, community is the only list where he does that. |
| 23:36.25 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: hm, i thought it's obvious i'm semi-joking. It can't be rude. As a rule, i can't be rude, as i'm always gentle and polite :p |
| 23:36.48 | DocScrutinizer | roh is sysop |
| 23:37.12 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: in fact, there was a discussion about that on the community and probably the consensus was to do that. But stupid things annoy me to no end, you know... |
| 23:37.29 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 23:38.07 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: i guess a sysop can refuse to break RFC, it's his obligation to the whole global network to follow the standards. |
| 23:38.14 | DocScrutinizer | I pick my 25% share of stupid things to get exited about. otherwise I had no time to sleep ;-) |
| 23:38.47 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: THAT'S a statement you probably could discuss with roh |
| 23:38.48 | Blu3 | is there an opkg for arora somewhere? |
| 23:39.09 | Digital_Pioneer | returns. |
| 23:39.59 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: in fact i thought he'd just come here and said "hey, yes, i do that. I was forced to, sorry guys. I know it's wrong, but they really forced me to do that" |
| 23:40.25 | mwester | Paul, are you causing more trouble, again?! :-D :P |
| 23:41.07 | DocScrutinizer | assumes roh reading ~96 irc-channels while watching TV. 5 times as much when actually 100% online |
| 23:42.37 | PaulFertser | mwester: /me's like a pendulum: after talking with/or end-users for some time politely, he has to complain about something aloud. |
| 23:42.42 | DocScrutinizer | so no, I don't think he just drops in and answers your previous lines to him |
| 23:44.17 | PaulFertser | Ok, i'd better sleep to avoid causing even more trouble. Have a nice weekend, see you :) |
| 23:44.24 | mwester | later! |
| 23:44.54 | DocScrutinizer | also I'm not sure it's obvious to him you're "semi-joking" |
| 23:45.08 | Dave | Roger that |
| 23:45.31 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: night :) |
| 23:45.57 | *** join/#openmoko veranazogirl (n=qwerty@156.28.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 23:46.08 | PaulFertser | is a bad joker apparently :-/ |
| 23:46.36 | max_posedon | russian sence of humor little bit different may be) |
| 23:46.37 | *** join/#openmoko veran (n=qwerty@156.28.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 23:47.22 | DocScrutinizer | jokes massively depend on context. context lost on speedreading |
| 23:47.28 | dkr | http://rolcats.com/ |
| 23:48.05 | Q-Master | goind to bed too. 8) |
| 23:50.45 | dkr | those have joke soviet-ish translations of russian lolcats. these are more literal translations: http://lolkot.ru/ :) |
| 23:53.28 | mmontour | bookmarks those sites |
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