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| 00:39.52 | Request | Free Programming ebooks With Direct Links & Request ebooks Here : http://request-ebooks.blogspot.com/ |
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| 00:45.41 | jbick | Is it correct to say that on the 2008.9 build, the software stack communicates with the devices? Is there any interaction between the kernel and devices? |
| 00:45.57 | balrog-k1n | how would otherwise software work? |
| 00:46.15 | balrog-k1n | all existing software does |
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| 01:01.57 | quatrox | jbick: the drivers talk with the hardware |
| 01:03.26 | quatrox | and things are exported to /sys, /dev and /proc |
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| 03:07.25 | *** topic/#openmoko is Developers, please join #openmoko-cdevel | Freerunner is in stock in some resellers. | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Quickstart | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems | Keyboard numbers for 2008.8 : slide finger up on the keyboard |
| 03:07.46 | mwester | If it can't negotiate a connection (perhaps a windows machine with no drivers on the other end) then it only draws 100ma, and can actually discharge the battery instead of charge! |
| 03:08.24 | mwester | If you use a wall or car charger that the device does not recognize, it also ends up drawing only 100ma -- which is a real problem... |
| 03:08.34 | mrgarlic | i am on third day. i had inadvertently let the battery run so low it wouldn't make it through boot. so i used a Nokia BL 4C to boot. |
| 03:09.05 | mrgarlic | i am charging off Mac Book Pro. Maybe i should go through powered USB hub? |
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| 03:10.27 | mrgarlic | charger is not present at this moment. |
| 03:11.41 | mwester | mrgarlic: If you don't have the wall charger, the best you can do is to get the device booted up to the point where it recognized the cdc-ether device on the USB on both ends (the network doesn't need to be configured, just recognized). Can you do that on the Mac? |
| 03:12.18 | vininim | oh my |
| 03:12.24 | vininim | hub 7-0:1.0: unable to enumerate USB device on port 1 |
| 03:17.58 | mrgarlic | hmm |
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| 03:20.39 | slaxxin | boot slax live |
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| 03:26.04 | mrgarlic | downloading slax |
| 03:30.12 | *** join/#openmoko rooly (i=rooly@host-125-232.lalacap.clients.pavlovmedia.com) |
| 03:30.13 | slaxxin | http://www.slackware.com/ |
| 03:30.26 | slaxxin | slackware 12.2 is released |
| 03:31.03 | slaxxin | bt time |
| 03:31.11 | slaxxin | has wicd |
| 03:32.58 | slaxxin | http://www.slackware.com/announce/12.2.php |
| 03:33.04 | slaxxin | ok i stop |
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| 03:35.56 | slaxxin | its going on the 5000+ Black |
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| 03:38.13 | uhsf | maemo 5 is released |
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| 03:43.31 | *** topic/#openmoko is Developers, please join #openmoko-cdevel | Freerunner is in stock in some resellers. | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Quickstart | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems | Keyboard numbers for 2008.8 : slide finger up on the keyboard |
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| 04:11.18 | gawdawful | Hello World! |
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| 06:37.40 | sebbs | i must say, yesterday i came in here worried about the openmoko interface (about inputting alot of text on the device) and i must say i am very pleasently supprised, the screentapping works very well. i am impressed with how far you people have come on this device :) |
| 06:38.23 | slaxxin | which os u have? |
| 06:38.29 | slaxxin | 2007.2? |
| 06:38.33 | sebbs | right now the 2008.8 i believe it was named |
| 06:38.34 | sebbs | no |
| 06:38.39 | sebbs | 2007.2 works well too |
| 06:38.48 | slaxxin | tried fdom? |
| 06:38.51 | sebbs | but is a bit boring |
| 06:38.55 | sebbs | no i have not as of yet. |
| 06:38.59 | sebbs | im gonna though :) |
| 06:39.23 | sebbs | i wanna try all the oses except perhaps qtopia |
| 06:39.33 | slaxxin | shr works well except i cant install applications as i could in 2008.8 |
| 06:39.44 | sebbs | shr? |
| 06:40.23 | slaxxin | http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/neo1973/ |
| 06:40.32 | slaxxin | french moko |
| 06:40.35 | *** join/#openmoko rooly|away (i=rooly@host-125-232.lalacap.clients.pavlovmedia.com) |
| 06:41.09 | sebbs | french as in the os is made by french people, or its in french (as in the langauge) |
| 06:43.41 | slaxxin | lolol |
| 06:43.45 | slaxxin | yea |
| 06:44.18 | slaxxin | wiki/distributions |
| 06:44.24 | rooly|away | i hate my isp |
| 06:44.30 | rooly|away | i bleeping hate them |
| 06:44.40 | sebbs | rooly|away: well they cant be worse then mine |
| 06:44.50 | rooly|away | see my join/part's? |
| 06:44.50 | sebbs | i highly doubt they can even if they tried |
| 06:44.59 | sebbs | i wish i had logged mine |
| 06:45.09 | sebbs | it would be one that starts at 12 and ends at 6 |
| 06:45.16 | sebbs | everynight |
| 06:45.34 | rooly|away | mine's been doing that for the past 2 weeks all day long |
| 06:45.42 | sebbs | :( thats crap |
| 06:45.45 | sebbs | what isp? |
| 06:45.50 | rooly|away | 'Pavlov' |
| 06:45.53 | sebbs | you should not have to pay for that |
| 06:45.54 | rooly|away | comes with my appartment |
| 06:46.04 | sebbs | ah |
| 06:46.09 | sebbs | mine too |
| 06:46.14 | rooly|away | i don't 'pay' for it in the general sense |
| 06:46.32 | sebbs | wifi works fine to the router, but the router just dropps the connection every 60 minutes |
| 06:46.35 | rooly|away | but its lumped in with my huge-ass rent bill |
| 06:46.42 | sebbs | :/ |
| 06:46.52 | rooly|away | here's how i've managed to keep my internet running |
| 06:46.56 | sebbs | tell your landloard its not working and that you cant work on it |
| 06:47.07 | rooly|away | i have a ping running constantly to opendns |
| 06:47.10 | sebbs | i did that so dont have to pay anymore |
| 06:47.28 | rooly|away | wouldn't help me |
| 06:47.32 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=toi@d54C2AAB7.access.telenet.be) |
| 06:47.33 | sebbs | sucks to have to go to a internetcafe to work though |
| 06:47.51 | rooly|away | ping -t 208.67.222.222 |
| 06:47.52 | sebbs | back where i come from i used to have 100/100 that never was down |
| 06:47.58 | rooly|away | just keep that running in the background |
| 06:47.59 | sebbs | here i have a 2mbit that bearly works |
| 06:48.06 | rooly|away | and i more or less keep decent connection |
| 06:48.20 | sebbs | yea that worked for me too |
| 06:48.40 | sebbs | i pinged a workbox and it made other connections work a bit better |
| 06:48.45 | rooly | fuck, almost did it again |
| 06:48.51 | rooly | sorry for the language guys |
| 06:49.09 | sebbs | i atleast accept isp rage |
| 06:49.11 | rooly | changing over to google |
| 06:49.41 | sebbs | atleast you can call your isp, i dont even speak the language |
| 06:49.42 | rooly | oooo, guess what i found out |
| 06:49.48 | sebbs | wha? |
| 06:49.55 | rooly | netbeans has a uml modeller |
| 06:50.08 | sebbs | netbeans |
| 06:50.10 | rooly | granted, c/++ isn't integrated into that |
| 06:50.16 | rooly | its an x-platform ide |
| 06:50.23 | sebbs | oh |
| 06:50.30 | sebbs | x platform? |
| 06:50.30 | slaxxin | umbrello |
| 06:50.33 | rooly | cross |
| 06:50.38 | rooly | slaxxin, not stable on windows |
| 06:50.39 | sebbs | cool |
| 06:50.47 | sebbs | windows |
| 06:50.50 | sebbs | *shrugs* |
| 06:50.58 | rooly | yeah, but you work with what you got man |
| 06:51.10 | sebbs | you need windows? |
| 06:51.25 | rooly | no, but i don't have the capacity to mess around with installing it again |
| 06:51.31 | rooly | installing linux again |
| 06:51.35 | rooly | not at the moment |
| 06:52.15 | sebbs | i could be a geek and tell you to use dsl and tell you all the wonders of vi mutt etc but i wont |
| 06:52.30 | sebbs | i am far too busy playing with my new toy |
| 06:52.33 | sebbs | ;) |
| 06:52.55 | rooly | i could in reply be a geek and say i've done such things, that i prefer pico/nano, and that dsl simply doesn't have enough for me |
| 06:53.14 | sebbs | :) |
| 06:53.23 | sebbs | ive not used pico |
| 06:53.28 | rooly | its nice |
| 06:53.31 | sebbs | why? |
| 06:53.32 | *** join/#openmoko gecco (n=carlo@host13-147-static.12-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 06:53.34 | rooly | you see, its like a normal text editor |
| 06:53.41 | sebbs | define normal |
| 06:53.48 | rooly | the arrow keys move the cursor |
| 06:53.55 | gecco | good morning |
| 06:53.55 | slaxxin | slack12.2 is just plum sweet |
| 06:53.57 | sebbs | but vi does that too if you bind it |
| 06:54.04 | rooly | if you bind it |
| 06:54.06 | sebbs | but i see your point |
| 06:54.20 | rooly | why in god's name should i need to bind keys for a simple text editor |
| 06:54.21 | sebbs | but i mean you have to configure vi otherwise it sucks hard |
| 06:54.39 | rooly | if i'm gonna do that, might as well use the emac's OS |
| 06:54.40 | sebbs | well, why in gods name do you need to customize you phone |
| 06:54.45 | sebbs | ah |
| 06:54.50 | sebbs | ok i see your point |
| 06:55.29 | sebbs | valid argument -- my counter argument would be, vi looks pretty with syntax highlighting |
| 06:55.31 | rooly | by the way, customizing a text editor and a phone operating system are two completely different things |
| 06:55.50 | sebbs | true -- but the drive i would think is the same. |
| 06:56.02 | gecco | violence!! |
| 06:56.04 | sebbs | atleast it is for me |
| 06:56.06 | rooly | my counter point, pico/nano has a toolbar at the bottom giving you all the keybind options it needs |
| 06:56.29 | rooly | plus, given support, i do believe it works with the text framebuffer/mouse interface |
| 06:56.37 | rooly | just like htop |
| 06:56.51 | sebbs | oh gecco thanks for that url you gave me yesterday, im gonna make a wire with my dad when i get back home. he is a electircian, and we always used to do stuff like that when i was a kid. |
| 06:57.08 | sebbs | rooly: ok so user friendlyness basically |
| 06:57.12 | rooly | yeah |
| 06:57.18 | rooly | instant usability |
| 06:57.26 | sebbs | ok i can see that, my brother prefers nano cos of the menu on the bottom |
| 06:57.38 | slaxxin | nano war |
| 06:57.46 | sebbs | ;) no wars |
| 06:57.48 | gecco | vi is for real man :) |
| 06:57.54 | sebbs | haha |
| 06:58.00 | slaxxin | yeayea |
| 06:58.01 | sebbs | where is mr emacs |
| 06:58.02 | rooly | butterfly's and that joke is done |
| 06:58.27 | sebbs | ok, i should go back to coding my backup script |
| 06:58.28 | rooly | fuck |
| 06:58.31 | rooly | its happening again |
| 06:58.34 | sebbs | :( |
| 06:58.39 | gecco | emacs is for richard stallman |
| 06:58.41 | rooly | i'll disconnect shortly |
| 06:58.46 | sebbs | gecco: ^^ |
| 06:58.54 | rooly | whew |
| 06:58.56 | rooly | thank god |
| 06:59.00 | rooly | crisis averted |
| 06:59.10 | slaxxin | wth |
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| 07:00.09 | rooly | damn internet thing now has me in trouble with my gf |
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| 07:00.50 | gecco | rooly: is it because you want to use openvibe? :) |
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| 07:01.25 | rooly | i swear to the almight fsm |
| 07:02.03 | rooly | i'm going to bed |
| 07:02.05 | sebbs | rooly: "08:00 < rooly> damn internet thing now has me in trouble with my gf |
| 07:02.07 | sebbs | lol |
| 07:02.25 | sebbs | not funny, still funny |
| 07:02.45 | rooly | she was upset, i was trying to find out why, boom. internet gone |
| 07:02.54 | sebbs | :( |
| 07:02.57 | rooly | dc'ed for a good 2 minutes or so |
| 07:03.09 | sebbs | i had that happening to me too |
| 07:03.18 | gecco | going to bed? what time is it? |
| 07:03.20 | sebbs | and i ran pidgin and it did not support offline messages at the time |
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| 07:03.25 | rooly | 1am |
| 07:03.28 | sebbs | its 08;03 |
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| 07:06.56 | *** join/#openmoko rooly|away (i=rooly@host-125-232.lalacap.clients.pavlovmedia.com) |
| 07:07.02 | rooly|away | is gonna fscking kill a homie messin with mah 'net |
| 07:07.54 | rooly|away | but i'm really going to bed now |
| 07:07.55 | slaxxin | prolly your neighbors downloading porn an music |
| 07:08.01 | rooly|away | nope |
| 07:08.03 | rooly|away | it aint |
| 07:08.12 | slaxxin | thats good |
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| 07:08.25 | slaxxin | night |
| 07:08.29 | rooly|away | i have my own seemingly qos'ed connection |
| 07:08.47 | rooly|away | this shit is at the hub |
| 07:08.49 | rooly|away | but night |
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| 07:36.38 | Wonka | rooly: bah. other people don't even have a gf... |
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| 09:02.13 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 09:08.18 | elserpiente | morning |
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| 09:11.05 | jmontane | hello |
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| 09:18.31 | ecraven | hello ;) is there any decent software stack yet? |
| 09:19.21 | gurugentoo | what are you defining as decent? |
| 09:19.54 | Tig| | I personally think SHR is showing the most promise at the moment |
| 09:20.30 | Tig| | it is flirting with being able to be my daily phone |
| 09:20.44 | vininim | heh, om-daily "kind of" works too |
| 09:21.02 | gurugentoo | Tig|: the one thing I really want is the phone/sms log |
| 09:21.07 | Wonka | would like to have e and illume on debian... |
| 09:21.22 | Wonka | and a decent phone app, zhone doesn't quite cut it |
| 09:21.56 | Wonka | i am working on improving the zhone gps part... already threw everything else out and renamed the rest zgps |
| 09:21.59 | Tig| | gurugentoo, erm 2007 then :P |
| 09:22.28 | gurugentoo | ya...if other things worked well |
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| 09:23.38 | Tig| | gurugentoo, ah you didn't say you wanted to make calls with it too :) |
| 09:25.16 | gurugentoo | I think I prefer make/receive calls to a working log...let me think |
| 09:25.23 | gurugentoo | hmm ya |
| 09:28.18 | ecraven | gurugentoo: works as a phone ;) |
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| 09:30.15 | ecraven | incoming, outgoing, log of calls, send and receive sms |
| 09:30.24 | ecraven | and works for more than 8 hours |
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| 09:37.14 | jmontane | so to have a working phone, which distro do you suggest ? |
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| 09:56.58 | vininim | ecraven: shr used to do that |
| 09:57.00 | jc | hi, what do you think about alternate standard c libraries ? dietlibc and the likes? |
| 09:58.15 | vininim | ecraven: the problem is that under some circustance it can change the picture |
| 09:58.18 | ronny | jc: less bloat, less pain |
| 09:58.30 | jc | ronny but also less performance ? |
| 09:58.51 | vininim | more like trouble porting apps |
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| 10:00.22 | jc | huh.. I see even mplayer is supposed to work on uclibc |
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| 10:00.41 | jc | and uclibc is supposed to be the slimmest of them all, right ? |
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| 10:01.55 | jc | I'd like to see in what sense glibc is really bloated, since all I read about the topic on the net wasn't much objective, rather just bsd flame |
| 10:02.19 | jc | and if it makes sense to start compiling my lfs against anything else than glibc |
| 10:02.28 | jc | (for freerunner) |
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| 10:07.22 | jc | aww python supposedly doesn't compile against dietlibc |
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| 10:12.35 | jc | also, is there a gcc version known not to work with openmoko sources (kernel patches, etc) ? |
| 10:16.34 | jc | btw. in gcc, 'armeb' is big endian and 'arm' is little endian? |
| 10:17.15 | Wonka | there are "Endian Big" and "Endian Little" |
| 10:17.28 | jc | oh, I get it, so armeb is big endian |
| 10:17.47 | Wonka | in debian, it's "make ARCH=arm", and gcc gets passed -march=armel, iirc |
| 10:17.55 | jc | so armel would be le |
| 10:18.06 | jc | thanks, Wonka, for clarification :) |
| 10:19.20 | vininim | jc: have you tried the wiki toolchain? |
| 10:19.41 | jc | I guess I'll go with little endian, not to break compatibility if some binary-only util comes up |
| 10:20.04 | jc | vininim, nope, I'm making my own via 'crossdev' in gentoo |
| 10:20.37 | jc | but thanks for the sugestion, I'll look at it |
| 10:20.46 | vininim | jc: hopefully you could see which version-revision they base off gcc and which patches to appl in the git |
| 10:21.27 | jc | vininim so standard gcc distribution compiled for arm crosscompiling doesn't work ? |
| 10:21.54 | vininim | not sure, just saying if it doesn't you could check that =) |
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| 10:24.39 | jc | according to parameters in wiki, it looks the same |
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| 10:28.32 | jc | just for fun, I'll try compiling kernel with either and compare :) |
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| 10:30.55 | jc | also the soc doesn't have floating point coprocessor and it isn't provided on board either ? |
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| 10:40.22 | balrog | jc: a standard gcc compiled as a cross gcc for armv4 works fine for me |
| 10:40.31 | balrog | jc: no, there's no floating-point |
| 10:40.38 | jc | so I'll use softfloat... |
| 10:40.56 | jc | I can't find it in the datasheet either, so it doesn't have coprocessor on die |
| 10:41.11 | jc | now I'm deciding on the ABI :) |
| 10:41.40 | XorA | careful of the binutils you use as well |
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| 10:43.07 | jc | the difference with softfloat is that fpu instructions aren't emulated via abort interrupts but called directly so it should be faster, right ? |
| 10:43.25 | XorA | jc: yes |
| 10:43.43 | jc | great, every little speedup is good :) |
| 10:43.47 | XorA | jc: you want EABI with softfloat for most efficient usage |
| 10:43.58 | jc | XorA GNU or ARM EABI ? |
| 10:44.14 | XorA | jc: and maybe thumb to reduce the cache load, helps in some cases |
| 10:44.42 | jc | but drastically increase code size |
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| 10:45.44 | XorA | jc: decrease you mean |
| 10:46.01 | jc | I think in many cases ARM prefixes are very useful |
| 10:46.34 | jc | for bit shuffling in interrupt handlers, thumb is great... |
| 10:46.46 | jc | but for mpeg decoding? doubted :) |
| 10:47.10 | balrog | if you count instructions it's an increase (statistically) |
| 10:47.16 | balrog | if you count bytes it's a decrease :) |
| 10:47.20 | jc | yep |
| 10:47.46 | jc | you even have to consider register file switching which isn't also good for your help when you have C code with many variables |
| 10:48.03 | jc | I think it also has less addressing power in instructions ? |
| 10:48.43 | jc | then stuff moving large quantities of data would certainly make use of store/load multiple instructions which also aren't present |
| 10:48.52 | XorA | on average building linux system using thumb caused a slight increase in performance and noted decrease in size |
| 10:49.11 | jc | really ? |
| 10:49.31 | XorA | yes |
| 10:49.42 | jc | any benchmarks ? |
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| 10:50.02 | XorA | pb__ did some work on it which is on the OE mailing list archives |
| 10:50.37 | XorA | pb__ is OE's toolchain genius :-) |
| 10:51.12 | jc | ok, it just doesn't make much sense :/ |
| 10:51.51 | XorA | less cache reloads, less bytes to read from slow flash memory :-) |
| 10:52.06 | jc | the cache is so small it doesn't matter that much I think |
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| 10:52.44 | jc | and shouldn't really code run in ram ? |
| 10:52.52 | jc | at least the kernel |
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| 10:53.20 | raster | thats the only place code can run from... |
| 10:53.20 | jc | oh just to be clear on this, I don't mind initial program loading times, I mind performance once they're loaded in memory |
| 10:53.29 | raster | at least on the gta01/02 |
| 10:53.34 | raster | :) |
| 10:53.45 | raster | remember u have a dynamic paging os |
| 10:53.47 | jc | I thought the flash was directly addressable |
| 10:53.52 | raster | it will page in code from disk as needed |
| 10:54.06 | raster | and when it isnt needed anymore - will be "paged out" (thrown away) |
| 10:54.11 | raster | no it isn't |
| 10:54.15 | raster | not nand |
| 10:54.38 | raster | even if it were - jffs2 would preclude XIP |
| 10:54.42 | raster | as it compresses |
| 10:54.55 | raster | so u still need to load data from flash, decompress it into ram THEN use it |
| 10:54.57 | XorA | I saw montavista do a talk on XIP at last FOSDEM and the conclusion was it is pretty worthless concept |
| 10:55.11 | jc | is looking for nand flash in the schematics |
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| 10:55.28 | XorA | NAND can never be directly addressed as its paged inside the chip |
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| 10:56.02 | XorA | some smart CPUs used to have nand controllers on them that looked like direct addressing |
| 10:57.28 | jc | so the NOR is hooked on 16bit data bus and is directly addresable as expected but I can't find the nand |
| 10:58.13 | jc | oh now I see it |
| 10:58.16 | jc | its on the initial sheet |
| 10:58.31 | jc | and its hooked directly and even with 32bit data bus |
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| 10:58.52 | starox__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:59.34 | raster | 32bit bus |
| 10:59.35 | raster | nand |
| 10:59.36 | raster | hehehehe |
| 10:59.38 | jc | raster but I think youre right that its internally paged and definitely its slow |
| 10:59.38 | raster | giggle |
| 10:59.49 | jc | raster really, its there |
| 11:00.05 | raster | flash on the FR is about the speed of continental drift |
| 11:00.08 | raster | ok.. well it was |
| 11:00.18 | raster | now it accelerated to grass-growing speed |
| 11:01.31 | jc | let's be objective... |
| 11:01.38 | jc | I really want my system to be fast |
| 11:01.52 | jc | not in the sense of initial program loading |
| 11:02.03 | jc | but in sense of performance once they're loaded and running |
| 11:02.21 | jc | so they're efficiently executed by the cpu |
| 11:02.30 | jc | not small |
| 11:03.03 | raster | its not such a simple thnig |
| 11:03.03 | jc | if you wanted small you could go with uclinux/uclibc and it would maybe take only a few megs of ram but you couldn't do much with it |
| 11:03.07 | raster | you have many levels of caching |
| 11:03.45 | raster | you ahve a gfx chip that will hog the entire bus (and thus cpu as its an soc) whenever u read/write to it and it throttles IO read/wrtie bandwidth to about 7m/sec) |
| 11:03.46 | swetland | thumb helps a good deal by reducing code size and cache pressure |
| 11:03.56 | jc | hey I think you were right |
| 11:03.58 | raster | you have flash and a dynamic paging system that will page as needed |
| 11:04.00 | swetland | the trick is to find the hotspots where the arm instructions make the difference |
| 11:04.04 | raster | u can p-lay tricks by pre-caching pages |
| 11:04.14 | raster | and you can simply never do any gfx |
| 11:04.20 | jc | even though in the schematic theres a 32bit data and address bus going to the nand |
| 11:04.27 | swetland | often this overlaps with things you'd tend to use hand tuned assembly for anyway |
| 11:04.39 | jc | in SC32442B datasheet in the NAND controller section, theres clearly only a few pins |
| 11:04.41 | raster | but you need to full grasp the system first before micro-optimising |
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| 11:05.21 | raster | i'd advise against asm except for very specific inner loops you execute a LOT |
| 11:05.29 | swetland | yup. |
| 11:05.33 | raster | and then make it optional #ifdef's and #define'd macors |
| 11:05.43 | jc | I'm not writing assembly, I'm choosing compiler for my lfs :) |
| 11:05.44 | swetland | software rasterizers, codecs, etc |
| 11:05.46 | raster | as you can bet in 12 months u'll be working on a different soc |
| 11:05.49 | raster | a different arm version |
| 11:05.56 | raster | and u'll want different asm |
| 11:05.58 | jc | and also, trying to understand freerunner |
| 11:06.00 | *** join/#openmoko mokolade (n=mokolade@85.221.112.173) |
| 11:06.03 | raster | or none at all |
| 11:06.05 | jc | about the glamo, I know its a hog... |
| 11:06.07 | raster | or maybe its mips |
| 11:06.07 | raster | or x86... |
| 11:07.08 | jc | what are you kidding, the 16KB instruction cache can't even hold glibc :) |
| 11:07.08 | *** join/#openmoko GNUtoo (n=GNUtoo@host135-29-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 11:10.21 | jc | btw. whats the thumb/arm switch overhead ? |
| 11:10.41 | raster | dunno |
| 11:10.50 | swetland | depends on the core |
| 11:10.59 | GNUtoo | has SHR switched to thumbs? |
| 11:11.03 | raster | but i suspect you're barking up the wrong tree worriing about "Fitting libc into cache" |
| 11:11.06 | raster | or anything even close |
| 11:11.06 | swetland | v6, virtually any pc load (except simple arithmetic) can change modes |
| 11:11.09 | jc | on ARM920T |
| 11:11.19 | *** join/#openmoko arzej (n=arzej@avr170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 11:11.24 | swetland | bx required iirc |
| 11:11.35 | jc | is there a cache flush on it ? |
| 11:11.37 | swetland | I keep forgetting that fr is still v4t |
| 11:11.39 | swetland | no |
| 11:11.49 | jc | since they have different instruction alignment ? |
| 11:12.05 | swetland | just a pipeline flush like any branch |
| 11:12.24 | swetland | (well, on any branch on an older core without branch target cache, etc, etc) |
| 11:12.37 | raster | first profiel your code |
| 11:12.39 | raster | on x86 |
| 11:12.45 | raster | just make it efficient in principle |
| 11:12.55 | jc | allright then, so I guess since most utils are just get stuff/move stuff/compare stuff/do syscall and no great calculations thumb would be good for majority of programs |
| 11:13.02 | swetland | raster is 100% correct that the algorithmic wins will almost always dwarf anything else |
| 11:13.09 | raster | if you have pretty much squeezed it there for all its worth - then think about more exotics |
| 11:13.20 | jc | and the rest where it makes a difference, I'd compare in arm mode |
| 11:13.21 | *** join/#openmoko cvwillegen (n=chatzill@tnf-s2040-asd-001-wan.thenetworkfactory.nl) |
| 11:13.25 | raster | for example |
| 11:13.27 | jc | they work seamlessly on linux, right ? |
| 11:13.44 | raster | i got a `350% sp3eedup in one particular situation.. just by being smart and throwing in a cache |
| 11:13.45 | raster | err |
| 11:13.50 | raster | 1350% |
| 11:13.54 | swetland | jc: that has been my experience building the hiptop os and android -- that for "generic" code thumb tends to win out just by better code density |
| 11:14.16 | jc | and stuff like mplayer I'd compile in ARM mode |
| 11:14.18 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 11:14.22 | raster | all the thumb/arm cache/whatever games in the world would never get close |
| 11:14.30 | swetland | hairier things (even in C) will often benefit from arm though (codecs, we compiled the c parts of the vm and gc in arm, etc) |
| 11:15.18 | raster | those bitshifts while doing a mov/add/sub/whatever rock |
| 11:15.18 | jc | ok then you've convinced me for thumb default :) |
| 11:15.20 | swetland | raster: I'll still happily take a 10-20% gain across the board if I can get it, but yes, fiddling with your compiler is never going to get you those single enormous wins |
| 11:15.30 | raster | for gfx/audio/video codec stuff |
| 11:15.31 | raster | ... |
| 11:15.37 | jc | also, conditional execution ;P |
| 11:16.06 | jc | great for unrolling complicated loops |
| 11:16.18 | jc | arm is such a beautiful nonbloated architecture |
| 11:16.27 | swetland | and finding crap like "oh shit there's a bug in the layout code that retraverses or repaints everything twice" |
| 11:16.28 | raster | swetland: the problem with fiddling with the compiler for thnigs like thumb is that you can easily stumble apon totally bizarre bugs |
| 11:16.36 | raster | as they are note very tried-and-tested paths |
| 11:17.05 | jc | so if it doesn't work, recompile it for arm, right? ;P |
| 11:17.08 | jc | I'll just try it :) |
| 11:17.32 | raster | swetland: yes. those kind of optimisations are what i'd be squeezing at first. trivial to work on and profile on a desktop so rate of "% speed gain per hour spent" it probably highest |
| 11:17.32 | swetland | raster: I've been shipping 90% thumb code in commercial projects build with gcc since 2000. It's not quite as bad as some may think. You're right that it doesn't get as much love as arm mode. |
| 11:17.37 | jc | what I fear the most is, if it works, maintenance |
| 11:17.48 | jc | no packaging system whatsoever |
| 11:17.51 | swetland | yeah, and totally the right place to start, no argument here |
| 11:18.13 | raster | i wish i could say that i had nothng left to win in that area |
| 11:18.35 | raster | but i know i can probably overall double the speed a lot of the code in evas for example |
| 11:18.42 | raster | but then i'm in diminishing returns land |
| 11:18.47 | raster | software will only go so far |
| 11:19.08 | raster | thouhg i have been wanting a cortex arm so i can try the nice simd in cortex - as it's 128bit registers its useful |
| 11:19.23 | jc | thats getting complicated |
| 11:19.30 | raster | nah - thats easy |
| 11:19.32 | swetland | I expect mathias will have fun updating pixelflinger/codeflinger for NEON |
| 11:19.36 | raster | ... if you already have the infra for inline asm |
| 11:19.38 | jc | what I like about the fr is it shows even a generic arm can do great things |
| 11:19.58 | jc | if it wasn't for the glamo screwup, it would be a dreamy architecture for me |
| 11:20.12 | raster | jc: i'm not so sure there. |
| 11:20.14 | swetland | you can go a long way on a tiny core |
| 11:20.20 | raster | i actually much prefer my treo650 |
| 11:20.33 | raster | except for its minimal 32m ram... |
| 11:20.39 | jc | or the ds :P |
| 11:20.44 | raster | but thats enough... until you throw python on it |
| 11:20.45 | raster | :) |
| 11:20.49 | jc | except for the lack of mmu and 4megs of ram :P |
| 11:21.00 | swetland | hiptop 1.0 was a 24MHz arm7, 8kb unified cache, 16mb of ram. System and apps in 1.0 were about 300K lines C, 600K lines of java. was a snappy little machine |
| 11:21.01 | raster | nah treo is fine |
| 11:21.03 | raster | its fast |
| 11:21.06 | jc | python isn't meant to go fast anyway |
| 11:21.12 | jc | good for UI I think |
| 11:22.52 | jc | so after making a toolchain, then it would be a day until I see a custom kernel successfully boot :D |
| 11:23.12 | *** join/#openmoko vishal (n=chatzill@122.166.2.243) |
| 11:23.14 | jc | after that, putting together a root with minimal utilities |
| 11:23.21 | vishal | hello friends |
| 11:23.38 | jc | after that, I'll be able to ssh to it and begin making X and phone stuff |
| 11:23.45 | *** join/#openmoko sebbs (n=sebbs@159.Red-79-155-247.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 11:24.00 | jc | then I'll get all those spiffy UI apps to be able to actually use it without a computer |
| 11:24.05 | jc | and then comes the best part |
| 11:24.08 | *** join/#openmoko Isajha (n=Isajha4@wrzb-4d00cf6a.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 11:24.12 | vishal | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:24.24 | jc | I'll realize 'damnt theres no way to update the packages except for recompiling and hand moving everything' |
| 11:24.25 | jc | :P |
| 11:24.26 | sebbs | hmm the wiki seems to be outdated "The 2007.2 repository has been moved to http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/Om2007.2" |
| 11:24.29 | sebbs | that link is not working |
| 11:25.00 | sebbs | just a FYI |
| 11:25.15 | *** join/#openmoko reinouts (n=reinout@s559355fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 11:25.17 | jc | yep, I noticed too but dunno where it is |
| 11:25.24 | jc | (the repo) |
| 11:26.30 | jc | which package management system do you think is best ? |
| 11:26.30 | sebbs | would it be possible to point it at a 2008 repo and get everything uptodate, or is flashing nessecary? |
| 11:26.45 | sebbs | like in debian you can just change the /etc/apt/sources.list and change to lenny or whatever |
| 11:26.46 | jc | I want to compile everything optimized for the fr, not use any repo |
| 11:27.11 | jc | so I'll make packages on my computer and then download them somehow to fr |
| 11:27.23 | sebbs | ^^ nice |
| 11:27.48 | jc | so like, I'll use a repo but my computer, not any arm generic repo |
| 11:28.09 | sebbs | i see your point |
| 11:28.11 | jc | so I need a package management system thats good with installing blobs |
| 11:28.30 | jc | like apt or something |
| 11:28.32 | jc | or even better |
| 11:28.32 | sebbs | blobs? |
| 11:28.35 | jc | use portage on my pc |
| 11:28.39 | jc | binary objects :) |
| 11:28.42 | jc | binaries |
| 11:28.47 | sebbs | hehe |
| 11:29.00 | sebbs | yeah gentoo is prolly more clever then debian in this case |
| 11:29.04 | jc | so use portage on my pc to automatically crosscompile it optimized |
| 11:29.10 | jc | and then move it to fr |
| 11:29.12 | sebbs | cos you would just change the flags and then yo uare off |
| 11:29.16 | jc | that would be just ideal |
| 11:29.37 | jc | I wouldn't have to hand compile everything and still have the advantages coming from optimization |
| 11:29.47 | jc | but that would be hard to setup I think.. |
| 11:30.01 | sebbs | but i mean compiling with emerge is not that bad i kinda like it |
| 11:30.11 | sebbs | im prolly gonna skip debian and run gentoo instead just for kicks |
| 11:30.15 | sebbs | :) |
| 11:30.27 | jc | I use gentoo normally |
| 11:30.34 | sebbs | i used to |
| 11:30.36 | jc | portage is a large bloat |
| 11:30.39 | jc | but I like it |
| 11:30.42 | jc | but not on my phone ;P |
| 11:30.44 | sebbs | but got tired from compiling everydamn thing |
| 11:30.54 | sebbs | i dont like it on my comp but perhaps on my phone ^^ |
| 11:30.54 | jc | no me, I still like it :) |
| 11:31.09 | sebbs | i mean if i just wanted zip i had to compile it |
| 11:31.14 | jc | well if you want to waste like 2GB of space on sd card just for package list... |
| 11:31.18 | sebbs | it gets annoying after a while |
| 11:31.31 | jc | theres a possibility to mount it over nfs from a laptop for example.. |
| 11:31.37 | sebbs | jc: i did not think that far (as to diskstorage) |
| 11:31.38 | jc | but thats slow |
| 11:31.55 | jc | gentoo is a bitch as far as disk storage goes |
| 11:31.59 | sebbs | well im not that far yet sir, i just got my phone yesterday |
| 11:32.01 | jc | as is debian apparently |
| 11:32.04 | sebbs | i still have shitloads to configure |
| 11:32.07 | sebbs | :D |
| 11:32.16 | jc | me2 |
| 11:32.24 | jc | I dumped all the standard distros as soon as I tried them |
| 11:32.29 | sebbs | why |
| 11:32.38 | jc | slow, reeeeally slow |
| 11:32.40 | sebbs | ive not tried them, im still on the first thingy |
| 11:32.50 | sebbs | ah but im just gonna use a terminal |
| 11:32.56 | jc | that one is good :) |
| 11:32.58 | sebbs | you mean like running gnome or what? |
| 11:33.05 | jc | not really, gnome is a memory hog |
| 11:33.14 | sebbs | yea i would think so |
| 11:33.18 | sebbs | wmi is nice |
| 11:33.24 | sebbs | i was thinking something like that |
| 11:33.26 | jc | for example, gnome-panel here takes about 20MB |
| 11:33.32 | sebbs | pwm |
| 11:33.37 | sebbs | dang |
| 11:33.38 | jc | as do many stuff gnome |
| 11:33.45 | jc | cause of glib and stuff |
| 11:33.50 | sebbs | yeah but i would not run gnome on a 200mhz |
| 11:33.56 | sebbs | thats just sick |
| 11:33.56 | jc | I think you would |
| 11:34.00 | jc | and its 400MHz :) |
| 11:34.08 | sebbs | is it? |
| 11:34.12 | sebbs | ive not checked yet |
| 11:34.18 | sebbs | i just read somewhere |
| 11:34.19 | jc | yup, its not that slow |
| 11:34.33 | sebbs | is it dual cpu or one core? |
| 11:34.40 | sebbs | i mean one 400 core |
| 11:34.47 | sebbs | or 2 200 cores |
| 11:34.55 | jc | single core ARM920T based |
| 11:35.01 | sebbs | thats sweet |
| 11:35.06 | jc | armv4t |
| 11:35.09 | sebbs | and it had a 3d accelerator too |
| 11:35.12 | jc | thats a generic arm with mmu added |
| 11:35.14 | sebbs | im gonna have so much fun with this |
| 11:35.25 | sebbs | im gonna install supercollider |
| 11:35.28 | sebbs | and just sit for days dude |
| 11:35.34 | sebbs | create instruments and stuff |
| 11:35.36 | jc | what? supercollider? :D |
| 11:35.43 | sebbs | this is the ultimate tool for making music |
| 11:35.44 | sebbs | yeah |
| 11:35.51 | jc | oh music stuf |
| 11:35.59 | sebbs | supercollider == music programming language |
| 11:36.01 | jc | then you'd get to like the audio codec |
| 11:36.02 | sebbs | haha |
| 11:36.07 | sebbs | u thought i meant like LHC |
| 11:36.22 | jc | it can for example play sound from headphones and loudspeakers at the same time |
| 11:36.26 | sebbs | particle accelerator |
| 11:36.36 | sebbs | jc: yeah i saw that today |
| 11:36.43 | sebbs | im gonna play around, i wanna compile a realtime kernel on this mamma |
| 11:36.47 | sebbs | and see how that works out |
| 11:36.48 | sebbs | :D |
| 11:36.51 | jc | try 'alsamixer' :D |
| 11:37.03 | sebbs | yeah |
| 11:37.06 | sebbs | ^^ |
| 11:37.15 | jc | you'd get to love it how complicated the chipset is |
| 11:37.22 | sebbs | and i wanna compile a modular syntheiszer and perhaps a drummachine too |
| 11:37.31 | sebbs | or i will build them myself in some language |
| 11:37.42 | jc | you can ;) |
| 11:37.49 | sebbs | but i will have to port alot of stuff |
| 11:37.53 | jc | you could like |
| 11:38.03 | jc | for example make dynamic ringtones :D |
| 11:38.03 | sebbs | which is kinda sucky cos i dont know how to compile for the openmoko |
| 11:38.08 | *** join/#openmoko Toutoug (n=ludovic_@tsf-wpa-2-160.epfl.ch) |
| 11:38.10 | sebbs | no dude i mean like |
| 11:38.18 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 11:38.30 | sebbs | i could build intelligent musical machines that play random music which sounds cool |
| 11:38.36 | jc | synthesize ringtone on the go |
| 11:38.46 | jc | based on accelerometer values, gps position, whos calling, ... |
| 11:38.51 | sebbs | haha |
| 11:38.53 | sebbs | gps position |
| 11:38.56 | sebbs | i love that |
| 11:39.01 | jc | like |
| 11:39.03 | sebbs | if i am at home i have home music |
| 11:39.09 | sebbs | and depending on the time of day |
| 11:39.23 | sebbs | im getting nausia from thinking about everything i can do |
| 11:39.39 | sebbs | i need to not wander off in thoughts and keep confing this so i can get ot that point |
| 11:39.42 | sebbs | :D |
| 11:39.47 | jc | you could have on the background of a tune 'who the fuck is calling me at 5 am' |
| 11:40.01 | sebbs | ;) |
| 11:40.04 | jc | or 'who the hell is distrurbing me in the bathroom' |
| 11:40.22 | sebbs | ive not tried the gps lock yet |
| 11:40.26 | sebbs | i hope its better then my old nokia |
| 11:40.37 | jc | on my distro its awful |
| 11:40.39 | jc | I use FDOM now |
| 11:40.46 | sebbs | my old my nokia it was brutally slow |
| 11:40.50 | jc | it takes about 10 minutes for first lock |
| 11:41.03 | jc | but then its good and very precise |
| 11:41.03 | sebbs | first as in first everytime |
| 11:41.03 | jc | it has to do with a software bug though |
| 11:41.05 | sebbs | or first as in the first time |
| 11:41.14 | jc | the gps module inside allows for 30s locks |
| 11:41.19 | jc | according to datasheet |
| 11:41.23 | jc | so theres still way to go |
| 11:41.27 | sebbs | wow 30s is sweet |
| 11:41.35 | sebbs | 10 minutes is not very useful |
| 11:41.42 | sebbs | but my nokia was the same |
| 11:41.44 | jc | first after cold start |
| 11:41.46 | sebbs | first lock was like 10 minutes |
| 11:41.50 | jc | when it doesn't know where it is at all |
| 11:41.59 | sebbs | jc: ok just like the nokia i had |
| 11:42.10 | jc | for the time being, yes |
| 11:42.19 | jc | or at least with fdom |
| 11:42.22 | jc | it has old kernel |
| 11:42.22 | sebbs | :) |
| 11:42.32 | sebbs | do you install your stuff on the SD card or what? |
| 11:42.33 | jc | new one has some bugfixes with sd clock that improve gps signal |
| 11:42.35 | lindi- | jc: how does the distro matter? |
| 11:42.54 | jc | lindi-: old kernel |
| 11:42.58 | jc | bad abi |
| 11:43.05 | sebbs | what is abi |
| 11:43.18 | jc | application binary interface |
| 11:43.27 | sebbs | agencia boliviana de informacia |
| 11:43.33 | sebbs | ^^ |
| 11:43.41 | jc | the newer compiler is the better chance of stuff running better |
| 11:43.58 | jc | and since the distros are a mix of various binary blobs not necessarily compiled for the freerunner... |
| 11:44.26 | sebbs | what does a program compilation have to do with gps though |
| 11:44.41 | jc | its a fix in kernel |
| 11:44.49 | sebbs | yea ok i think i missread |
| 11:44.58 | jc | clock on sd card was running even when sd wasn't used |
| 11:45.04 | lindi- | jc: how can kernel matter with gps? |
| 11:45.04 | jc | and it interfered with gps a lot |
| 11:45.15 | vishal | guys can you help me ? where can i sread more aboug gps integration in openmoko ????? |
| 11:45.19 | jc | in a new kernel theres a patch to stop sd clock when not needed |
| 11:45.28 | vininim | lindi-: sd freq, but I don't think a compiler would fix that =P |
| 11:45.30 | lindi- | jc: hasn't that been there for ages? |
| 11:45.32 | jc | thats difference in lots of minutes on first fix when signal is critical |
| 11:45.35 | jc | dunno |
| 11:45.41 | sebbs | lindi-: is the gps apart of the kernel? |
| 11:45.46 | lindi- | sebbs: yes |
| 11:45.48 | jc | but clearly in kernel that came with my distro, it isn't |
| 11:45.53 | lindi- | sebbs: you just talk it over serial port |
| 11:45.53 | *** join/#openmoko ayeuu (n=ayeuu@LMontsouris-152-61-5-195.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 11:46.28 | *** join/#openmoko Tig| (n=tigger@94.196.29.247) |
| 11:46.31 | *** join/#openmoko jonkristian (n=jonkrist@15.84-48-197.nextgentel.com) |
| 11:46.43 | lindi- | jc: cat /sys/module/glamo_mci/parameters/sd_idleclk |
| 11:47.00 | jc | anyway the calibration patch sounds cool for example, I'll make a git kernel |
| 11:47.13 | sebbs | lindi-: i would not know about it, ive only ever used one gps device before this one and it was completly locked down |
| 11:47.17 | balrog | vishal: there isn't much to learn |
| 11:47.22 | sebbs | lindi-: i will explore though ^^ |
| 11:47.33 | balrog | vishal: you can see the schematics to see how exactly it's integrated |
| 11:47.37 | jc | lindi- my neos of now, I'm already making my rootfs on the card :) |
| 11:47.41 | lindi- | jc: cat /sys/module/glamo_mci/parameters/sd_drive? |
| 11:47.42 | jc | *off |
| 11:48.09 | lindi- | better make backup of /sys off-site then :) |
| 11:49.12 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback) |
| 11:50.56 | cvwillegen | Yesterday evening, I flashed Andy's latest moredrivers kernel (from Dec 5th) and the latest Qi that was on his page. Now, I don't get a SIM-PIN popup. Is this a known issue? |
| 11:51.05 | *** join/#openmoko jas4711 (n=jas@c80-216-27-189.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 11:57.06 | *** join/#openmoko Varox (n=Varox@p4FD46B3E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:57.24 | sebbs | im trying to descide what to install |
| 11:57.28 | sebbs | :D |
| 11:57.34 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:58.11 | lindi- | cvwillegen: kernel definitely does not know _anything_ about PIN codes :) |
| 11:58.25 | jc | gsmd does |
| 11:58.37 | cvwillegen | So, I should check if gsmd is running? |
| 11:58.46 | jc | (I know I'm still in the 'stone age') |
| 11:58.51 | sebbs | lindi-: i remember you telling me htat you installed debian on your phonememory (not the sd card) or did i missunderstand that |
| 11:58.54 | cvwillegen | Maybe the new kernel borked something? |
| 11:59.19 | jc | now qtopia has taken over I think |
| 11:59.34 | jc | I don't really know anything about the generic distros anymore |
| 11:59.44 | sebbs | jc: can you run qtopia and then debian chrooted ? |
| 12:00.04 | jc | you can like have qtopia stuff on debian |
| 12:00.08 | sebbs | fsck it, im just gonna try |
| 12:02.23 | sebbs | fdom seems good to start with |
| 12:02.34 | jc | thats what I use |
| 12:02.40 | jc | its working.. for the most part |
| 12:02.49 | sebbs | yea i saw the sheet |
| 12:02.50 | jc | but I'm switching away from it as soon as I can :) |
| 12:03.18 | sebbs | to what |
| 12:03.30 | jc | to my own |
| 12:03.39 | jc | linux from scratch |
| 12:03.39 | sebbs | did you have t oflash first to 2008.9 then fdom |
| 12:03.45 | jc | nope |
| 12:03.54 | sebbs | just 2007.2 -> fdom? |
| 12:03.57 | jc | I directly flashed fdom |
| 12:04.03 | sebbs | ok cool |
| 12:04.05 | jc | you could use fdomizer I think |
| 12:04.09 | jc | but I just flashed it |
| 12:04.13 | jc | to start from scratch |
| 12:04.19 | sebbs | i dont even know what that is |
| 12:04.21 | jc | take care however |
| 12:04.31 | jc | if you flash it and it doesn't work |
| 12:04.34 | sebbs | yeah my phone is empty atm nothing on it |
| 12:04.39 | jc | and you can't start a normal os, you can't charge |
| 12:04.43 | jc | (the battery)_ |
| 12:04.47 | sebbs | ? |
| 12:04.52 | jc | and if it gets discharged, you're screwed |
| 12:04.55 | lindi- | sebbs: yes i use debian |
| 12:05.01 | sebbs | jc: seriously? |
| 12:05.03 | jc | afaik |
| 12:05.07 | jc | yup |
| 12:05.10 | jc | so if I was you |
| 12:05.17 | jc | I'd write it to SD first |
| 12:05.18 | sebbs | why though it only charges in the os? |
| 12:05.18 | jc | then test it |
| 12:05.24 | jc | to see it boots and charges ok |
| 12:05.30 | jc | and then overwrite the default os in flash |
| 12:05.31 | lindi- | it will charge in boot loader too |
| 12:05.34 | jc | thats how I did it |
| 12:05.40 | lindi- | but only at 100mA |
| 12:05.47 | cvwillegen | ISTR a discussion where it was stated that uboot will also charge, at 100mA. |
| 12:05.52 | jc | lindi- even in the old NOR u-boot ? |
| 12:06.07 | lindi- | jc: that i am not sure about |
| 12:06.17 | jc | FDOM overwrites NAND bootloader |
| 12:06.21 | jc | it could ruin it |
| 12:06.28 | lindi- | jc: from there you can write anything to nand |
| 12:06.45 | lindi- | jc: so it should not be a problem |
| 12:06.52 | sebbs | i need to read up on these memories |
| 12:06.58 | jc | so to be clear |
| 12:07.03 | *** part/#openmoko Tuju (n=tuju@178.156.190.90.sta.estpak.ee) |
| 12:07.12 | jc | NOR u-boot shipped in freerunner charges via USB at 100mA ? |
| 12:07.28 | sebbs | oh yeah i read about this |
| 12:07.28 | GNUtoo | hello, does someone use SHR here? |
| 12:07.35 | sebbs | it just takes a looong time for it to work |
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| 12:07.48 | sebbs | jc: there is something about this on the wiki |
| 12:07.53 | sebbs | iirc |
| 12:07.54 | GNUtoo | how do I answer a call? i heard it ringing but no GUI appeared |
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| 12:08.28 | jc | how ? |
| 12:08.31 | jc | oh thats simple |
| 12:08.47 | jc | just introduce whatever stimuli you configured it to for answering a call :D |
| 12:08.51 | jc | like a terminal command :D |
| 12:09.00 | GNUtoo | jc, so there is no GUI? |
| 12:09.09 | jc | depends on what distro you use |
| 12:09.18 | GNUtoo | jc, SHR pre-release |
| 12:09.24 | GNUtoo | the lastest image |
| 12:09.29 | jc | then I dunno, haven't used that |
| 12:09.36 | GNUtoo | ok thanks anyway |
| 12:09.40 | lindi- | jc: it does not need to charge |
| 12:09.53 | lindi- | jc: as long as it can fetch 100mA from usb and run with that |
| 12:10.07 | jc | lindi- well my kernel crashes when I remove the battery |
| 12:10.24 | jc | GNUtoo I think they now use qtopia tools for that everywhere |
| 12:10.27 | lindi- | jc: how? |
| 12:10.37 | jc | GNUtoo so you should make sure qtopia daemons for that are running I think |
| 12:10.38 | sebbs | hey tuxbrain |
| 12:10.52 | sebbs | how is tuxbrain connected to FDOM? |
| 12:11.01 | GNUtoo | jc, ah ok...i thought they used custom-made efl gui |
| 12:11.23 | jc | lindi-: I remove the battery and it just hangs, the image that was there before stays there and doesn't respond anyhow to button presses |
| 12:11.42 | jc | also can't ping it, disappears from usb, etc |
| 12:11.51 | GNUtoo | jc, http://shr.bearstech.com/trac/wiki/SHR_Architecture |
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| 12:12.20 | jc | lindi- don't worry about that I'm getting a git kernel soon :) |
| 12:12.40 | jc | thats some old one provided with fdom |
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| 12:36.25 | polz | GNUtoo: SHR uses an efl-based gui and yes, the latest few images seem to be a bit buggy. |
| 12:36.52 | polz | GNUtoo: I usually ssh to the phone, look up the calling number in /var/log/frameworkd.log and call them back |
| 12:38.13 | Zorkman | polz: there is something to view your missed calls |
| 12:38.42 | Zorkman | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/PyPhonelog |
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| 12:53.54 | GNUtoo | polz, lol thanks a lot |
| 12:58.26 | Wonka | i'd not call grepping the log "end user compatible" |
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| 13:07.39 | jc | btw is there a usb ethernet gadget driver for windows compatible with the linux one ? |
| 13:07.52 | jc | so I can connect my freerunner to vista |
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| 13:12.26 | Weiss | jc: should work. "ethernet gadget driver" means the bit that goes in your FR's kernel that allows it to behave as a USB ethernet device. as far as the other side is concerned, it's just a "USB ethernet device". at least, that is my understanding. give it a try.. |
| 13:15.05 | jc | Weiss: thx, I know but when I hooked it up to vista, it couldn't find a driver so I guess it doesn't know a 'ethernet device' class |
| 13:15.38 | jc | works great between linuxes though |
| 13:16.00 | jc | (provided I have the gadget drivers compiled in) |
| 13:18.36 | Weiss | did you find http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_and_Windows ? |
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| 13:20.45 | jc | Weiss I didn't, thank you :) |
| 13:22.16 | Weiss | i'm not sure why 'doze doesn't have the drivers by default - surely it isn't that exotic a device.. |
| 13:23.05 | jc | I think its something linux-usb guys came up with themselves |
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| 13:24.35 | GNUtoo | polz, Zorkman you seem to use SHR...so how did you resolve the echo problem...the person who called me said that there still was an eccho |
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| 13:25.05 | GNUtoo | by the way services numbers don't work...but i found a workarround...calling a number they told me my credit |
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| 13:46.23 | sebbs | could someone explain to me how to change between keyboard modes 2008.8 ? |
| 13:46.31 | sebbs | its asking for my PIN and i cannot enter numbers :S |
| 13:46.32 | Weiss | jc: i.e. not a standard USB network protocol of any kind? |
| 13:46.42 | Weiss | sebbs: topic :) |
| 13:46.49 | sebbs | oh :) |
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| 13:47.01 | sebbs | haha funny |
| 13:47.58 | Tig| | Dunno why it was put in the topic nobody ever reads it :P |
| 13:48.55 | Weiss | i think the topic could actually do with a bit of an update |
| 13:49.11 | Tig| | yeah GPS has been solved now |
| 13:49.26 | sebbs | i dont always read the topic cos the names list gets too long |
| 13:49.37 | sebbs | i use irssi, im sorry i am lazy, i should just scroll up |
| 13:51.59 | polz | GNUtoo: I manually applied the "AT%N0187" patch |
| 13:52.10 | jc | Weiss: AFAIK, its a standard communications device class |
| 13:52.24 | sebbs | i would recomend putting that keyboard tip in the keyboard section on the wiki |
| 13:52.30 | GNUtoo | polz, ok thanks...where can I find the patch, and once applied no more eccho? |
| 13:52.46 | jc | Weiss: although it sounds standard, its just a label that 'this thing talks some network protocol' and doesn't specify the protocol exactly |
| 13:53.04 | polz | GNUtoo: you just need to add 2 lines to unsolicited.py |
| 13:54.15 | GNUtoo | polz, where can i find the patch? i will manually add it but i have to know what to add and where... |
| 13:54.29 | *** part/#openmoko emsyr (n=emsyr@ppp079166088239.dsl.hol.gr) |
| 13:55.49 | GNUtoo | polz, is it this patch: http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td1486414|a1518726 ? |
| 13:55.54 | jc | Weiss: if it were standard, you wouldn't have like 20 drivers for usb to serial converters in the kernel... |
| 13:56.07 | jc | Weiss like RFCOMM in bluetooth is |
| 13:56.29 | sebbs | why is 2008.8 all black? |
| 13:56.41 | sebbs | i mean should it be all black |
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| 13:58.15 | Tig| | yeah they changed the colour scheme |
| 13:58.33 | jc | its not black anymore? |
| 13:58.45 | jc | oh I'm so switching and not ever looking back :)) |
| 13:58.56 | jc | Ilume is ugly anyway |
| 13:59.11 | jc | *ll |
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| 14:00.35 | polz | GNUtoo: yep. |
| 14:00.41 | GNUtoo | ok thanks a lot |
| 14:03.56 | sebbs | or are there different colour schemes? |
| 14:04.06 | jc | hey let's write a first ever armel linux virus :P |
| 14:04.17 | jc | to force people set root passwords and use thumb |
| 14:04.25 | sebbs | thumb? |
| 14:04.36 | jc | alternate instruction set |
| 14:04.59 | sebbs | instructions about what |
| 14:05.53 | sebbs | oh |
| 14:05.57 | sebbs | ok i read up on it |
| 14:07.27 | sebbs | jc: which keyboard type do you use? |
| 14:07.36 | sebbs | oh i found a whole section about it on the wiki ^^ |
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| 14:31.24 | sebbs | how do i backspace with the keyboard? |
| 14:31.45 | sebbs | jc: u are right about it not being very good |
| 14:32.17 | Tig| | slide you finger left anywhere on it |
| 14:32.31 | Tig| | usually |
| 14:33.05 | sebbs | ok so its all about the slinding |
| 14:33.56 | sebbs | ok i see now |
| 14:34.00 | sebbs | thank you |
| 14:34.04 | Tig| | no problem |
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| 14:40.54 | fredrin | anyone using Andriod as their daily phone? |
| 14:42.36 | jonkristian | nah |
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| 14:53.43 | |Marco| | uh... did shr just remove theire repository ?? |
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| 14:54.40 | beuss | maintainance |
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| 14:55.01 | jonkristian | dang |
| 14:55.05 | beuss | should be back in less than one hour |
| 14:55.19 | jonkristian | can't even ssh into om development image:/ |
| 14:55.25 | *** join/#openmoko Openfree (n=df@222.65.143.118) |
| 14:55.44 | jonkristian | probably because of a conflict on the phone, and that crap doesn't even come with a terminal. |
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| 15:00.51 | sebbs | i am trying to find some docs on building packages for 2008.8 could someone point me in the correct direction |
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| 15:01.37 | jc | is it possible to write a bisexual code that runs on thumb and arm ? |
| 15:01.52 | sebbs | bisexual code |
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| 15:02.04 | jc | some kind of thing that jumps to a proper handling code |
| 15:02.33 | jc | for the virus |
| 15:03.05 | ubu | hello, i'm on SHR...and usb host mode doesn't work...even with the lsusb mode...what should I do? |
| 15:03.49 | jc | dunno.. |
| 15:03.58 | lindi- | ubu: lsusb mode? |
| 15:04.11 | jc | sebbs I think you'd like to look at the package system documentation |
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| 15:04.24 | ubu | s/mode/trick |
| 15:04.27 | jc | lsusb is an util to show devices connected on usb AFAIK |
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| 15:04.37 | lindi- | ubu: what lsusb trick? |
| 15:05.21 | ubu | https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2166 |
| 15:05.59 | ubu | and usb_mode is set to host and hostmode to 1 |
| 15:06.38 | sebbs | ye si would like to see the package systme documentation, would you know where it is? |
| 15:06.41 | sebbs | is it on the wiki |
| 15:07.02 | sebbs | ah |
| 15:07.06 | sebbs | thanks jc |
| 15:08.03 | jc | sebbs: to be honest with you, I don't use the default package management so I wouldn't help you much beyond that |
| 15:08.09 | ubu | lindi-, the 3 leds of my keyboard are on...but no way to use it |
| 15:08.10 | jonkristian | what are you guys running these days? |
| 15:08.23 | ubu | SHR pre-release |
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| 15:08.58 | sebbs | jc: no i think this documentation is enough, i want to build a few packages |
| 15:09.04 | jc | ubu AFAIK, HID is somehow broken with openmoko distribution, I think its misinterpreting scancodes, I read that somewhere |
| 15:09.15 | sebbs | but im not sure i wanna run 2008.8 yet, its not very good |
| 15:09.44 | sebbs | i dont like the look of it, 2007.2 felt more complete (gui wise) |
| 15:09.59 | sebbs | perhaps im missing something |
| 15:10.12 | sebbs | still alot more to read before i get all of this |
| 15:10.18 | ubu | jc, as openmoko distribution you means the config file for openembedded? |
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| 15:10.48 | jc | ubu I mean the default rootfs images provided on the wiki, I think I got it from there somewhere |
| 15:11.07 | jc | but really I don't have a cable yet so I didn't try a mouse/keyboard |
| 15:11.13 | jc | pls let me know if it works ok :) |
| 15:11.39 | sebbs | after a update do i need to restat the phone? |
| 15:11.49 | sebbs | sorry upgrade |
| 15:11.50 | jc | sebbs update of the rootfs ? |
| 15:11.54 | sebbs | yes |
| 15:11.59 | ubu | jc, ok but I used SHR and it worked with 2008 |
| 15:12.04 | jc | sebbs if you update just the packages, then maybe X restart |
| 15:12.11 | jc | sebbs if you update kernel, then the phone |
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| 15:12.30 | sebbs | how do i restart X without a terminal? |
| 15:12.35 | jc | sebbs and if you update the whole rootfs then you're not doing it from linux but over USB DFU probably :) |
| 15:12.44 | jc | sebbs /etc/init.d/something |
| 15:12.46 | jc | mmnt |
| 15:13.15 | jc | /etc/init.d/x-nodm restart |
| 15:13.17 | jc | wait |
| 15:13.18 | sebbs | jc: yes but i think, let me check my output |
| 15:13.19 | *** join/#openmoko ARZEJ (n=user@dgv88.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 15:13.25 | jc | be sure not to do it from a graphical terminal on the phone ;) |
| 15:13.35 | jc | or do it in a screen session |
| 15:13.37 | jc | screen |
| 15:13.38 | jc | and then |
| 15:13.43 | jc | /etc/init.d/x-nodm restart |
| 15:14.05 | sebbs | is there a package database of some sort? (so i can check what a certain package is) |
| 15:14.26 | sebbs | nevermind ill read through the opkg man |
| 15:14.34 | ubu | ah dmesg says cannot enable port2...mabe cable is bad |
| 15:15.17 | jc | I think theres some sort of search in opkg |
| 15:15.18 | ubu | but i've tried with 2 different keyboards and it worked before |
| 15:15.30 | ubu | i'll reboot the openmoko |
| 15:15.51 | sebbs | is there a community repo? |
| 15:17.22 | jc | they have publicly accessible git repos |
| 15:17.26 | jc | its on the wiki |
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| 15:24.57 | ubu | my usb key works but not my keyboard |
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| 15:29.18 | ecraven | what distribution do people here usually suggest for phone + text messages? |
| 15:29.43 | polz | I'd say qt-extended |
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| 15:32.26 | GNUtoo | i was ubu, seems to works not on X...i'll try to see if there are things to install to get keyboard support such as keyboard module for X/kdrive |
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| 15:38.39 | PBeck | ahoi |
| 15:40.11 | jonkristian | anyone else using networkmanager on host machine? |
| 15:40.11 | jonkristian | It keeps disconnecting me when i plug-in my fr. |
| 15:41.13 | dent | yeah, nm does that |
| 15:41.29 | dent | and I hate nm... |
| 15:41.33 | jonkristian | wonder if there's a way to block that |
| 15:41.37 | jonkristian | i love nm |
| 15:42.09 | dent | I think wiki suggested some nm-like app that handles this well, but instead of trying, I jsut set up my router to handle usbnet for the fr:) |
| 15:42.53 | dent | nm is nice - as long as you stick to the standard suecases, but when you want something special, I think you're ***ed |
| 15:43.25 | dent | ehm, usecases... standard suecases sounds SCOish :) |
| 15:43.27 | XorA | NM is yet another waste of space program |
| 15:43.38 | jonkristian | XorA: how so? |
| 15:43.51 | XorA | it goes wrong in more situations than it is right |
| 15:43.57 | XorA | and gets worse with every release |
| 15:44.07 | jc | dent hello, arent you from Czech Republic ? |
| 15:44.20 | dent | jc: yeah... why? |
| 15:44.32 | jc | dent I lost logs, so I remember correctly :) |
| 15:44.49 | dent | XorA: yeah, before usb net used to work well, but when I upgraded my work laptop to ubuntu8.10... yuck |
| 15:44.53 | jc | dent: have you bought a 3.5mm to 2.5mm jack converter ? |
| 15:45.04 | dent | nope |
| 15:45.15 | jc | I don't know where to get it, people say some work and some don't |
| 15:45.21 | jc | any suggestions ? |
| 15:45.38 | jonkristian | I bought a bluetooth receiver with a 3.5mm input |
| 15:45.42 | dent | didn't investigate it yet, but I guess one day I hack othether my own... as I'd like there to be a piece of cable between the two connectors, in order not to destroy the FR :) |
| 15:46.15 | jc | dent can you get 2.5mm 4 pin connector in GM ? |
| 15:46.39 | dent | I haven't looked, but I don't expect a problem... |
| 15:46.54 | jc | I do, my ff just froze up... |
| 15:47.00 | dent | :)) |
| 15:47.21 | jc | http://www.gme.cz/cz/index.php?page=product&detail=809-078 |
| 15:47.25 | jc | for example this is a 3 pin one |
| 15:48.00 | jc | and they don't seem to have anything else.. |
| 15:48.32 | jc | someone suggested a generic radioshack connector so maybe I'll just get it from abroad... |
| 15:48.47 | jc | *converter |
| 15:48.50 | dent | http://www.gme.cz/cz/index.php?page=product&detail=809-077 ? |
| 15:48.59 | dent | but I'm not a HW guy, so... |
| 15:49.05 | dent | better check with someone else :) |
| 15:49.15 | jc | thats just a connector :) |
| 15:49.22 | dent | and? :) |
| 15:49.26 | jc | but yeah, you could make one yourself |
| 15:49.33 | dent | you buy another one and a piece of cable and you're ready to go :) |
| 15:49.35 | jc | it would just look ugly |
| 15:49.44 | jonkristian | Why not get one of these? http://www.clasohlson.no/Product/Product.aspx?id=59169904 |
| 15:49.45 | dent | can't look more ugly than what you pasted :) |
| 15:50.12 | jc | it would be kinda big to carry in pocket |
| 15:50.15 | jonkristian | I haven't tested it on the fr yet, but the sound quality from my laptop to that one is pretty good, even with my AKG's |
| 15:50.16 | jc | I know that from practice... |
| 15:50.21 | dent | jonkristian: bc it would mean another battery to worry about? |
| 15:50.42 | jc | yep, I'd prefer to connect it to fr directly |
| 15:51.05 | jc | and not hog the internal usb bus to which bluetooth module is connected to internally |
| 15:51.38 | SpeedEvil | You can't |
| 15:51.45 | SpeedEvil | there are two USB units on the FR |
| 15:51.55 | SpeedEvil | one is host only, and connected internally to the bluetooth |
| 15:52.06 | SpeedEvil | the other is host/device, and connected to teh external port. |
| 15:52.14 | SpeedEvil | There is no easy way to access the bluetooth port. |
| 15:52.26 | jonkristian | SpeedEvil: can't do what? |
| 15:52.35 | SpeedEvil | hog the internal usb bus to which bluetooth module is connected |
| 15:52.39 | jonkristian | Connect that receiver? |
| 15:52.57 | SpeedEvil | Unless I misses something on backscroll |
| 15:53.26 | SpeedEvil | you can't hog that USB bus, as you can't access it without desoldering stuff |
| 15:53.36 | jonkristian | it's a bluetooth adapter |
| 15:53.46 | jonkristian | it doesn't connect via any usb port |
| 15:53.52 | dent | each of you is talking about something else |
| 15:53.56 | SpeedEvil | I suspect so. |
| 15:53.58 | dent | :) |
| 15:54.00 | jonkristian | ah, okee |
| 15:54.04 | SpeedEvil | I'm talking of the internal bluetooth adaptor. |
| 15:54.12 | SpeedEvil | Which is connected by USB to a USB host-only port. |
| 15:54.20 | dent | jonkristian: SpeedEvil reacted to jc's comment |
| 15:54.35 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-64-162.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 15:55.13 | jc | sorry, afk |
| 15:55.39 | jc | SpeedEvil, I think you meant hook? :) |
| 15:55.54 | jc | I meant not to use it and drain battery since its not necessary |
| 15:56.37 | jc | btw I was, too, talking about the internal bt module |
| 15:56.45 | jc | so its on second port anyway ? |
| 15:56.51 | jc | good 2 know |
| 15:57.01 | jonkristian | anyway, PIZZA |
| 15:57.09 | jonkristian | \o/ |
| 15:57.34 | dent | jc: rmoravcik... another poor cz soul, it seems :) |
| 15:57.48 | jc | dent how do you tell ? |
| 15:58.03 | jc | from the name ? |
| 15:58.03 | dent | rmoravcik [n=rmoravci@gtsgw.ttc.cz] :) |
| 15:58.07 | jc | oh... |
| 15:58.15 | dent | nah, just that he jsut parted ^ |
| 15:58.19 | jc | allright, I'm not used to IRC... |
| 15:58.24 | dent | na ja |
| 15:58.34 | *** join/#openmoko nio_ (n=nio@86.92.255.117) |
| 15:58.53 | jc | according to tangoGPS, there are at least 4 of them around ;) |
| 15:59.18 | jc | and according to czech distributors sales, its about 30 I think |
| 15:59.37 | jc | I remember somebody bought it the day after me because I saw the stock number decrease ;) |
| 16:00.12 | jc | czech phone linux freaks ;) |
| 16:00.23 | jc | hope they make some meeting or something |
| 16:00.26 | ecraven | is there a default uboot_env binary around somewhere? i kept changing mine, now i'd like some kind of working default back (something that also includes support for booting from SD) |
| 16:00.45 | jc | ecraven I could dump it for you |
| 16:01.25 | jc | mines booting from fat/ext2 |
| 16:01.28 | jc | from sd |
| 16:02.07 | *** join/#openmoko gcwilson (n=gcwilson@32.97.110.59) |
| 16:03.09 | ecraven | jc: hm.. then i'll just work with mine, i did away with the boot partition, i like it better if there's only one partition on the sd |
| 16:03.12 | *** join/#openmoko jserv-- (n=jserv@122-116-62-89.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 16:03.57 | ecraven | also, did anyone do anything about the crappy sound while talking on the phone? neither the talking nor the listening part is anywhere near as good as any other phone i know |
| 16:04.01 | jc | ecraven if you put kernel image in root of the only partition I think it should work |
| 16:04.13 | jc | I know only about some echo |
| 16:04.19 | jc | on the other side |
| 16:04.32 | jc | I didn't look it up yet |
| 16:04.43 | jc | but I think these are well known problems on the wikk |
| 16:04.44 | jc | i |
| 16:09.06 | jc | I'd really love to get gta02 to be good for listening to music on the go |
| 16:09.34 | jc | I was thinking about something like bluetooth music controls (buttons) ? |
| 16:09.54 | jc | so you can pause/play, skip in songs, skip albums and stuff |
| 16:09.56 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 16:10.00 | jc | and of course set volume |
| 16:10.17 | jc | any recommendations? :) |
| 16:10.29 | sebbs | i would be sweet if one could install .deb packages in openmoko |
| 16:10.40 | jc | sebbs just install apt? |
| 16:10.41 | sebbs | i guess its just a matter of packaging apt |
| 16:10.57 | sebbs | is it avalible as a package? |
| 16:10.58 | jc | (or just crosscompiling it and copying it over) |
| 16:11.05 | sebbs | ok |
| 16:11.20 | jc | dunno, you could try it... |
| 16:11.38 | sebbs | it has deps too |
| 16:11.53 | sebbs | it would be well worth it |
| 16:12.01 | jc | btw. on arm you have several ABIs, multiple standard c libraries and stuff |
| 16:12.14 | jc | you have to make sure that the binaries you install are binary compatible with your system |
| 16:12.15 | *** join/#openmoko loca| (n=tux@196.203.53.221) |
| 16:12.20 | sebbs | oh |
| 16:12.42 | sebbs | ok good to know, i will read up on ARM |
| 16:12.46 | jc | also arm is bisexual |
| 16:12.49 | jc | (little/big endian) |
| 16:12.58 | jc | so you have to have right sex packages |
| 16:13.21 | jc | you don't have to, arm is the processor inside ;) |
| 16:13.27 | sebbs | oh btw some packages are broken |
| 16:13.30 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@72.62.207.4) |
| 16:13.39 | *** join/#openmoko Isajha (n=Isajha4@wrzb-4d00cf6a.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 16:13.48 | jc | well, dunno, I don't use the default ones.. |
| 16:13.49 | sebbs | like the mediaplayer |
| 16:13.56 | sebbs | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:13.56 | sebbs | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:14.09 | sebbs | its easy to fix, just wanted to point it out |
| 16:14.13 | jc | but I think this specific problem was mentioned in wiki |
| 16:14.27 | sebbs | ive not found(nor looked for) a bug reporting place |
| 16:14.30 | sebbs | jc: ok |
| 16:16.02 | jc | I thoght they switched away from pulseaudio.. |
| 16:16.05 | jc | I use mplayer anyway... |
| 16:16.21 | sebbs | hmm most packages i want seem to be included as ipk files, i wonder if its really worth running debian from the SD when i could be running openmoko with the apps i want |
| 16:16.35 | sebbs | jc: i just found the repo, ive only been using the default one up to this point |
| 16:16.45 | jc | I just hate that debian is so large :/ |
| 16:16.49 | jc | I don't understand it.;.. |
| 16:16.49 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@net70-17.metalit.net) |
| 16:17.00 | sebbs | well its not really you can strip it down quite alot |
| 16:17.18 | jc | would be nice to have a minimal root to start with |
| 16:17.20 | jc | not that bloat |
| 16:17.30 | sebbs | which bloat? |
| 16:17.39 | dent | jc: debootstrap seemed reasonable to me |
| 16:17.41 | sebbs | you can install debian with only theessential base packages |
| 16:17.42 | jc | those 400MB or so you install in default |
| 16:17.49 | dent | nah |
| 16:17.54 | sebbs | jc: i dont know it might be specific for openmoko then |
| 16:18.09 | jc | dent: debootstrap ? |
| 16:18.22 | sebbs | debootstrap is crack |
| 16:18.39 | dent | jc: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/426 |
| 16:18.42 | dent | sebbs: why? |
| 16:19.11 | sebbs | dent: because one day i realized i dont acctually need a whole virtual machine, debootstrap is enough for my needs |
| 16:19.18 | jc | dent you use some repo with optimized packages for the fr ? |
| 16:19.19 | slaxxin | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:20.03 | sebbs | slaxxin: tell me about shr |
| 16:20.04 | jc | comes from the people who invent theyr own package management system |
| 16:20.05 | sebbs | why is it so good |
| 16:20.24 | jc | I really don't understand it |
| 16:20.29 | sebbs | jc: understand what |
| 16:20.44 | dent | is lost... |
| 16:20.48 | sebbs | jc: from a sysadmins point of view debian is great. |
| 16:20.51 | jc | why there so many package management systems |
| 16:20.51 | dent | but that doesn't really matter :) |
| 16:21.04 | sebbs | jc: because there is no standard |
| 16:21.06 | jc | I mean you can clearly see a contrast between apt/portage |
| 16:21.26 | sebbs | you are thinking function |
| 16:21.37 | jc | but when you want 'just something that moves binary blobs around your system', why have so many systems for that |
| 16:21.39 | sebbs | logically, but reality is that there are alot of people wanting to create "the best" |
| 16:21.53 | sebbs | thus we have a gazilion different packaging tools |
| 16:22.02 | jc | its like all those ports of ubuntu |
| 16:22.09 | sebbs | till one day one beats them all, and then everybody will use that, till a better branch comes along |
| 16:22.12 | jc | *forks |
| 16:22.15 | sebbs | they are not acctually ports |
| 16:22.25 | sebbs | yes |
| 16:22.25 | sebbs | they are bundles of packages |
| 16:22.32 | sebbs | really not much more then that |
| 16:22.32 | sebbs | +artwork |
| 16:22.32 | jc | I know, they just change a background and motives and rebrand it :D |
| 16:22.41 | sebbs | yea |
| 16:22.53 | sebbs | its basically that, someone wanted ot be able to say "i created my own dist" |
| 16:23.06 | sebbs | so it starts, and they say its better because blabla feature |
| 16:23.07 | jc | why rpm/apt/yum/whatever |
| 16:23.10 | jc | ipkg, opkg |
| 16:23.14 | sebbs | pacman |
| 16:23.20 | jc | portage/paludis makes sense |
| 16:23.32 | jc | one is a big overcramped with features written in python |
| 16:23.41 | ecraven | i like apt and pacman/yaourt |
| 16:23.42 | jc | second is small, reliable but feature poor |
| 16:23.58 | sebbs | pacman is nice |
| 16:24.10 | jc | (written in c) |
| 16:24.11 | sebbs | back in the day it was way better then apt-get was |
| 16:24.19 | sebbs | pacman == python iirc |
| 16:24.34 | jc | how better ? only thing all these stuff do is download blobs into your system and keep track of them :) |
| 16:24.38 | *** join/#openmoko orzo (n=grml@adsl-074-236-102-092.sip.bct.bellsouth.net) |
| 16:24.55 | orzo | hi |
| 16:25.00 | sebbs | better cos it resolved deps quicker nad updated db faster |
| 16:25.07 | sebbs | now its as bloated as apt |
| 16:25.08 | orzo | i have a bricked neo1973 |
| 16:25.13 | sebbs | orzo: sweet |
| 16:25.16 | jc | orly so why didn't they focus on debloating and improving apt |
| 16:25.42 | sebbs | i dont follow you jc |
| 16:25.46 | orzo | i believe the problem is that the battery ran completely out |
| 16:25.54 | sebbs | orzo: yeah go into uboot |
| 16:25.55 | ronny | jc: someone always finds a stupid reason |
| 16:26.02 | orzo | uboot? |
| 16:26.05 | orzo | i cant even turn it on |
| 16:26.10 | sebbs | oh |
| 16:26.15 | jc | well I do really see the sense in having apt/portage |
| 16:26.21 | sebbs | if you put the wire in and let it charge it should just take a long time |
| 16:26.25 | sebbs | i read that somewhere on the wiki |
| 16:26.28 | Tig| | orzo do you have a nokia phone handy with a similar battery? |
| 16:26.28 | jc | but I don't see a sense in apt/rpm and other stuff |
| 16:26.51 | unknown_lamer | jc: packages do a bit more -- e.g. handle common-lisp-controller stuff, merging config changes, ... |
| 16:26.57 | jc | even having gnome and kde makes more sense |
| 16:27.02 | orzo | i have a motorola phone |
| 16:27.05 | sebbs | jc: but pacman for example |
| 16:27.13 | sebbs | it had the portage part |
| 16:27.15 | orzo | and it's battery has 4 terminals instead of 3 |
| 16:27.17 | sebbs | sorry archlinux i mean the distro |
| 16:27.28 | sebbs | it had pacman and a portage tree (kinda ABS) |
| 16:27.32 | slaxxin | orzo just pressaux + power amnn see |
| 16:27.33 | unknown_lamer | jc: keep in mind when rpm/deb were being worked on initially there were not GNU/Linux package managers |
| 16:27.35 | jc | unknown_lamer: thats an added side effect :) |
| 16:27.37 | sebbs | i mean that was a leathal combo |
| 16:27.41 | Tig| | orzo ah that will not help, iirc you have to plug it in and leave it for ages |
| 16:27.49 | jc | portage does sandboxing and wary merging for example |
| 16:27.52 | Tig| | it will trickle charge at a very low rate |
| 16:27.54 | *** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 16:27.55 | slaxxin | 1 minuit |
| 16:27.57 | sebbs | orzo: yes Tig| is correct |
| 16:28.27 | slaxxin | wall plug it wait 1 minuit then hit aux + power |
| 16:28.31 | orzo | plug it into a computer? |
| 16:28.35 | slaxxin | no |
| 16:28.40 | orzo | i dont have a wall charger |
| 16:28.40 | slaxxin | wall charger |
| 16:28.51 | slaxxin | well dammit |
| 16:29.09 | slaxxin | how u get it without a wall charger? |
| 16:29.16 | orzo | it never came with one |
| 16:29.21 | slaxxin | ahhh |
| 16:29.27 | slaxxin | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:29.42 | slaxxin | u got robbed |
| 16:29.45 | orzo | will any old usb wall charger do? |
| 16:29.45 | jc | someone got ripped off |
| 16:30.05 | jc | it has to supply 2A |
| 16:30.09 | slaxxin | i think a tomtom will work |
| 16:30.29 | slaxxin | are u sure about that? |
| 16:30.30 | orzo | i used to borrow a wall charger and issue a command to tell it to draw more power |
| 16:30.58 | jc | if you want to handle the startup spike + charge battery and run ok it should source more than 1A I think |
| 16:31.18 | jc | but 2A would be on the safe side, I think its the rating of the default one |
| 16:31.34 | orzo | but i cant get one off the shelf at walmart or something? |
| 16:32.21 | orzo | has anybody got both teh neo1973 and freerunner |
| 16:32.25 | orzo | and can compare |
| 16:32.37 | SpeedEvil | Neo never came with a PSU |
| 16:32.41 | jc | oh youre talking about gta01 |
| 16:32.44 | jc | then I don't know... |
| 16:33.05 | SpeedEvil | Any wall charger, or a computer will perfomr the same. |
| 16:33.18 | jc | my laptop only sources 500mA |
| 16:33.19 | orzo | SpeedEvil: even when the battery is compeltely exhausted? |
| 16:33.43 | SpeedEvil | unplug bat for 5 mins. Plug back in. Plug into USB port on computer, or powered hub. |
| 16:33.47 | Tig| | orzo the freerunner wall charger (I have in my hand) says +5V 2.0A |
| 16:33.54 | SpeedEvil | Leave for 4 hours 32 minutes. |
| 16:33.59 | jc | you could try removing the battery, plugging usb power, booting, inserting battery and see if it charges |
| 16:34.04 | SpeedEvil | jc: won't |
| 16:34.12 | orzo | SpeedEvil: i think i tried that before |
| 16:34.19 | SpeedEvil | jc: the above is the approved procedure for GTA01 |
| 16:34.57 | *** join/#openmoko Zorkman (i=Zorkman@dD5771B06.access.telenet.be) |
| 16:35.00 | mwester | attempting to run the GTA01 with no battery will risk releasing the magic smoke from the PMU chip. |
| 16:35.02 | SpeedEvil | you must not touch the buttons till you try to power it up, otherwise you risk getting it in a state where it boots partially without result, and re-drains the bat as it's charged |
| 16:35.24 | jc | braindead design :) |
| 16:35.56 | jc | you might have as well just used a microcontroller for controling the charging and stuff |
| 16:36.00 | orzo | is the freerunner a good everyday phone? |
| 16:36.08 | jc | so nobody would have to worry about it in software whatsoever |
| 16:36.22 | jc | as is normal almost everywhere |
| 16:36.35 | orzo | my gta01 is not very good |
| 16:36.44 | sebbs | orzo: why not |
| 16:36.59 | orzo | people would always complain about an echo and demand i use a different phone |
| 16:37.06 | jc | but I understand it gives you additional freedom |
| 16:37.07 | sebbs | oh |
| 16:37.10 | jc | to charge or not to charge :D |
| 16:37.15 | sebbs | orzo: is that the software or hardware? |
| 16:37.21 | jc | (or to overcharge and blow up battery) |
| 16:37.26 | orzo | i dont know, probably hardware |
| 16:37.29 | sebbs | orzo: have you tried another distro? |
| 16:37.39 | sebbs | orzo: what are you running now? |
| 16:37.46 | orzo | i was running openmoko |
| 16:37.58 | sebbs | oh and then you changed |
| 16:38.00 | sebbs | and bricked it? |
| 16:38.03 | orzo | no |
| 16:38.22 | sebbs | ok i forgot who bricked the phone |
| 16:38.26 | sebbs | im getting tired |
| 16:38.27 | orzo | it bricked because it runs the battery down too fast for me |
| 16:38.40 | sebbs | how fast is too fast |
| 16:38.43 | orzo | and because it wont charge after its run down |
| 16:39.02 | sebbs | that has not happened to me (yet) |
| 16:39.07 | orzo | without some crazy procedure that speedevil mentioned, but even then, i've not been able to get it to charge |
| 16:39.18 | orzo | you have a gta01, sebbs? |
| 16:39.24 | sebbs | so its not charging or charging really slow? |
| 16:39.32 | orzo | it charges ok |
| 16:39.36 | sebbs | gta02 6th hardware revision |
| 16:39.39 | orzo | its just that i always have to tell it to draw more poewr |
| 16:39.45 | sebbs | yeah |
| 16:39.52 | sebbs | thats what lindi- said i think |
| 16:39.55 | orzo | and if its run down, i cant tell it anything |
| 16:40.06 | sebbs | it charges using low battery |
| 16:40.11 | sebbs | low current |
| 16:40.23 | sebbs | im too tired now i should get some sleep |
| 16:40.31 | orzo | well, its a hassle |
| 16:40.45 | sebbs | i understand |
| 16:40.47 | orzo | im weary of the gta02 |
| 16:40.54 | orzo | because of my gta01 |
| 16:40.55 | sebbs | but gta01 was a development phone |
| 16:40.58 | orzo | ya |
| 16:41.03 | orzo | so hows gta02 |
| 16:41.08 | orzo | any complaints |
| 16:41.14 | sebbs | ive only had it a day this far |
| 16:41.18 | orzo | oh |
| 16:41.21 | ecraven | enough complaints :) |
| 16:41.37 | orzo | well im probably not going to get it i guess |
| 16:41.38 | sebbs | i like it though, even though its slow etc its not as bad as the nokia i had |
| 16:41.45 | sebbs | that shit almost made me go mental |
| 16:41.51 | jc | me2 |
| 16:41.56 | jc | it takes time getting used to |
| 16:41.57 | sebbs | this phone does not freeze and not do anythign for 20 minutes |
| 16:41.59 | jc | but you get to love it |
| 16:42.05 | jc | once you get the proper software |
| 16:42.09 | orzo | well |
| 16:42.10 | sebbs | i can always ssh to it and stop processes if i want |
| 16:42.14 | orzo | i mean hardware complaints |
| 16:42.23 | jc | you can rig in a failsafe |
| 16:42.24 | sebbs | ive not tried calling people that much |
| 16:42.27 | ecraven | orzo: bad sound quality, sd/gps problem (partly solved in software) |
| 16:42.32 | jc | like shutting down stuff with the power button and so on |
| 16:42.37 | sebbs | my brother said the soundquality was kinda sucky |
| 16:42.44 | orzo | okay |
| 16:42.47 | sebbs | but i mean i had a nokia before that and nokia has very sharp sound |
| 16:42.49 | jc | would be nice to rig some kind of 'magic sysrq' reset to one :) |
| 16:43.14 | jc | the bass issue is a known one, and is documented on the wiki |
| 16:43.15 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178052046.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:43.21 | jc | you have to modify mixer values |
| 16:43.28 | ecraven | jc: no, it's a gsm hardware issue |
| 16:43.34 | orzo | the gta01 only worked for certain sim cards |
| 16:43.38 | orzo | i lost my sim card heh |
| 16:43.49 | orzo | does the gta02 have that problem? |
| 16:44.10 | mwester | That issue was a function of the GSM firmware. |
| 16:44.16 | mwester | Not the GTA itself. |
| 16:44.24 | jc | dammit anyone knows of a good site for torrent on NDA'd datasheets? :D |
| 16:44.27 | orzo | oh really? |
| 16:44.32 | mwester | If you update the GSM firmware (per the wiki) the same sims will work on either. |
| 16:44.36 | orzo | so i can flash my phone and get a new sim card adn it will work now? |
| 16:44.39 | jc | I want SD card init specs |
| 16:44.48 | *** join/#openmoko Fragggy (n=dennis@dslb-084-062-190-237.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:45.05 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@78-1-180-150.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 16:45.22 | orzo | mwester: was that always known to be a software issue? |
| 16:45.30 | *** join/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu (n=Leachim@ip-77-24-227-25.web.vodafone.de) |
| 16:45.37 | mwester | Yes, that was always known to be a GSM firmware issue. |
| 16:45.55 | *** join/#openmoko gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) |
| 16:46.03 | orzo | and teh gsm firmware is flashed with everything else when i flash the phone? or do i need to do somethign special with uboot? |
| 16:46.04 | jc | dammit how can something as simple as a gsm controller have such a buggy firmware ? |
| 16:46.25 | SpeedEvil | haha |
| 16:46.35 | mwester | There's nothing at all simple about the GSM -- it's an entire ARM core in itself. |
| 16:46.41 | jc | I know |
| 16:46.41 | SpeedEvil | The GSM stack is probably >50K lines of code |
| 16:46.46 | orzo | does the gta01 accept bluetooth headsets now? |
| 16:47.04 | jc | but once you understand it its as simple as writing a tcp/ip stack |
| 16:47.11 | SpeedEvil | two ARM cores |
| 16:47.14 | jc | if you design it right overally its ok |
| 16:47.23 | SpeedEvil | jc: with added hard-realtime fun. |
| 16:47.31 | ecraven | hm. so by disabling gsm, i'd get a dual core phone?? <*g*> |
| 16:47.40 | SpeedEvil | ecraven: It's got about 7 |
| 16:47.51 | SpeedEvil | ecraven: the FR that is |
| 16:47.53 | jc | anyway, do they fix firmware for the gsm chip ? |
| 16:47.58 | orzo | does the freerunner have longer battery life? |
| 16:48.04 | ecraven | SpeedEvil: now if we had a decent bus between them.. |
| 16:48.09 | SpeedEvil | orospakr: battery life is unfinished |
| 16:48.26 | SpeedEvil | orospakr: 90% of the battery saving stuff is unimplemented |
| 16:48.31 | Zorkman | orzo: did a test yesterday; on SHR currently 8.67 hours when using gps all the time, and no wifi, gsm or bluetooth |
| 16:48.43 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=toi@d54C2AAB7.access.telenet.be) |
| 16:48.51 | orzo | hm |
| 16:48.58 | orzo | tahts not too bad i guess |
| 16:49.05 | jc | you just have to idle the cpu in idle loops |
| 16:49.18 | SpeedEvil | Idle is a small saving |
| 16:49.30 | jc | yep, whatever else would you want to save |
| 16:49.34 | SpeedEvil | The big saving that's not done at the moment is clocking it roght down |
| 16:49.37 | jc | you just suspend after some time |
| 16:49.51 | jc | you can overclock it on the fly ? |
| 16:49.57 | jc | like choosing a prescaler? |
| 16:50.15 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 16:50.19 | jc | thats nice |
| 16:50.30 | SpeedEvil | but you need to change all the prescalers on everything |
| 16:50.56 | SpeedEvil | you can clock the processor down, but all the peripherals need to be paused, their prescalers changed, and then resumed |
| 16:50.59 | jc | all mcus I worked with had a prescalable master clock from which al other clocks derived |
| 16:51.13 | jc | but like USB clock has to be changed to be correct for example then |
| 16:51.18 | orzo | does the gta02 have this issue where it cant charge after the battery is run down? |
| 16:51.22 | SpeedEvil | This can be done very fast, easily fast enough for it to be worthwhile. |
| 16:51.25 | SpeedEvil | But it's not. |
| 16:51.50 | jc | what about the cpufreq stuff in kernel ? |
| 16:51.54 | jc | or whatever was it called |
| 16:51.56 | SpeedEvil | Not there. |
| 16:52.03 | jc | it already has some governors |
| 16:52.12 | SpeedEvil | you need the low-level drivers |
| 16:52.14 | SpeedEvil | which aren't there |
| 16:52.15 | jc | if you implement the clock changing there it would work |
| 16:52.23 | SpeedEvil | Please, go ahead. |
| 16:52.25 | orzo | SpeedEvil: my battery has been otuside of the phone for the duration of this conversation. You say taht if i plug it into my computer now (desktop, linux), then after four hours i can power it on? |
| 16:52.34 | jc | if I had the time :) |
| 16:52.35 | SpeedEvil | orospakr: should work |
| 16:52.57 | orospakr | SpeedEvil, I assume you mean "orzo"? :P |
| 16:52.57 | SpeedEvil | orzo: though 4h is a rough guess - it charges _very_ slowly |
| 16:53.01 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 16:53.34 | orzo | well i'm skeptical |
| 16:53.44 | jc | first of all I have to get the freerunner working in the first place... |
| 16:54.01 | orzo | i suppose if i hit the button after four hours and it doesnt turn on then i have to remove the battery for 5 minutes again eh? |
| 16:54.14 | SpeedEvil | It should turn on and run for a few mins then |
| 16:54.24 | SpeedEvil | It should in principle have about 10% charge by then |
| 16:54.38 | SpeedEvil | Much less, and it can sort-of, but not properly boot |
| 16:55.38 | orzo | is bluetooth headsets implemented for gta01 these days? |
| 16:55.58 | SpeedEvil | GTA02 and 1 bluetooth as as far as I know identical |
| 16:56.08 | orzo | well |
| 16:56.11 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-200-69.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 16:56.22 | orzo | so then, gta02, does it work with headsets? |
| 16:57.05 | orzo | i dont like holding the phone to my head |
| 16:57.09 | orzo | it's akward |
| 16:57.52 | orzo | plus maybe a headset would resolve some of the echo issues |
| 16:58.27 | *** join/#openmoko Shlee (n=MrShlee@c122-106-217-30.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 16:58.50 | jc | SpeedEvil would it help you if I wrote assembly to switch different clocks ? |
| 16:58.50 | orzo | hello? |
| 16:59.00 | jc | SpeedEvil I really don't orientate in kernel yet |
| 16:59.02 | SpeedEvil | jc: I'm not personally involved in the code |
| 16:59.27 | *** part/#openmoko gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) |
| 16:59.31 | SpeedEvil | jc: the person you need to poke is cesarb - but I don't know if he's got any time at all. He started working on it, then real-life got in the way. |
| 16:59.38 | jc | well I see wheres the problem, USB and UART clocks need to be recalculated |
| 16:59.48 | SpeedEvil | if only. |
| 16:59.59 | jc | thats the obvious stuff I see so far |
| 17:00.28 | SpeedEvil | USB, UART, framebuffer, and about 3 other PLLs |
| 17:00.39 | jc | I admit the clock diagram looks scary :) |
| 17:00.53 | jc | little more complicated than a stupid avr :D |
| 17:00.55 | SpeedEvil | USB, UART, framebuffer, and about 3 other prescalers and scalers |
| 17:01.03 | jc | the timers ? |
| 17:01.09 | jc | oh yeah |
| 17:01.11 | jc | timers |
| 17:01.19 | SpeedEvil | each one has prerequisites that will make certain clocking frequencies impossible. |
| 17:01.26 | jc | yeah |
| 17:01.32 | mwester | jc: search the ML archives; cesarb has written up some pretty good notes on what works, what doesn't, which are hard limitations, and which are things yet to be worked upon. |
| 17:01.37 | jc | also what timers are you using ? |
| 17:01.43 | SpeedEvil | So if the screen is blanked, you don't need to pay attention to the screens prerequisites. |
| 17:01.56 | jc | I'm curious if kernel uses more than one timer :) |
| 17:02.00 | SpeedEvil | But if the screen needs unblanked, it needs to change up, so it can work. |
| 17:02.23 | jc | well |
| 17:02.24 | SpeedEvil | I've not looked at the code in detail. Only the hardware. |
| 17:02.24 | mwester | jc: the kernel on the 02 uses all the timers; there may be one timer spare on the gta01 |
| 17:02.33 | jc | it makes sense to precalculate all the necessary values |
| 17:02.38 | jc | and just update everything |
| 17:02.49 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish_ (n=ivan@proxy.salfordsoftware.co.uk) |
| 17:02.52 | jc | do you use thumb for code in kernel for this ? |
| 17:02.59 | mwester | no |
| 17:03.01 | mwester | C |
| 17:03.12 | SpeedEvil | jc: the processor in the GTA01 is _FAST_ |
| 17:03.12 | jc | well do you want it to be fast or not? ;) |
| 17:03.21 | jc | I only have gta02 |
| 17:03.36 | SpeedEvil | jc: It's 200MHz - you're absolutely not going to run into problems doing a couple of divisions in C. |
| 17:03.51 | jc | why dividing |
| 17:03.57 | SpeedEvil | jc: the much longer delay is the lock time of the PLL |
| 17:04.01 | jc | you know up front what frequencies to expect |
| 17:04.01 | SpeedEvil | division or whatever. |
| 17:04.12 | jc | unless you want to overclock to arbitrary values |
| 17:04.16 | jc | I was thinking of presets |
| 17:04.17 | mwester | The overwhelming cost of changing frequencies is delays and waits for the PLLs to stabilize; you could write the code in python and it would make no difference in the total time. |
| 17:04.17 | SpeedEvil | It was an example |
| 17:04.27 | jc | whatever the prescalers allow |
| 17:04.50 | *** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@unixboard/users/neldoreth) |
| 17:04.55 | SpeedEvil | The PLLs take some time - large fractions of a millisecond - to rel-lock |
| 17:04.58 | SpeedEvil | re-lock |
| 17:05.11 | jc | so when you wait for it to stabilize, everything from usb, uart, etc is unstable ? |
| 17:05.22 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 17:05.27 | orzo | do off the shelf gophone sims work in the gta01 with latest firmware now? |
| 17:05.36 | jc | so when youre performing a usb transfer and it overclocks, its bad for you |
| 17:05.47 | jc | very bad |
| 17:06.06 | SpeedEvil | jc: that probably means that USB is one of the above prerequisites. |
| 17:06.17 | SpeedEvil | jc: if USB is active, you can't clock up or down as flexibly. |
| 17:06.25 | jc | if at all |
| 17:06.29 | SpeedEvil | jc: same with serial, framebufgfer, audio, ... |
| 17:06.38 | jc | USB synchronizes clocks at start of packets |
| 17:06.43 | SpeedEvil | And IIRC some of the datasheet is ambiguous. |
| 17:06.46 | mwester | USB, IIRC, is one of the worst, and I think that is one of the remaining trouble areas in the code. I think you actually have to suspend the USB entirely and then bring it back up from nothing to change the clocks. |
| 17:06.48 | SpeedEvil | The USB PLL is seperate. |
| 17:07.21 | SpeedEvil | But how much the USB unit can buffer stuff while the main CPU is suspended is doubtful. |
| 17:07.28 | jc | thats the UPLL thing ? |
| 17:07.28 | mwester | However, USB is not really a big concern, because if you have it tethered, there's really no big reason to lower the clock for the USB, is there? |
| 17:07.39 | SpeedEvil | mwester: other than host mode |
| 17:07.54 | jc | well if you transfer/receive packets when you change clocks, you get a typical overrun/underrun |
| 17:08.07 | SpeedEvil | jc: as a best case |
| 17:08.09 | jc | and if it takes a 1 ms you lose about 10 packets at least |
| 17:08.16 | SpeedEvil | jc: USB1.1 |
| 17:08.17 | jc | no wait |
| 17:08.20 | jc | 12mbit |
| 17:08.23 | jc | nrzi |
| 17:08.31 | jc | ok less than 10 packets |
| 17:08.39 | jc | I think the smallest one is about 8bit or so |
| 17:08.48 | jc | but you completely lose one usb frame, thats for sure |
| 17:09.16 | SpeedEvil | jc: that's the best case. It may well not come back sanely without a complete teardown/rebuild |
| 17:09.22 | SpeedEvil | jc: effective unplug/replug |
| 17:09.24 | jc | it should |
| 17:09.28 | jc | usb synchronizes clocks |
| 17:09.35 | SpeedEvil | jc: 'should'. |
| 17:09.39 | jc | it will |
| 17:09.40 | mwester | Well, IIRC it doesn't. Something to fix then. |
| 17:09.52 | jc | at start of frame, it sends dummy bits to synchronize clock |
| 17:10.19 | SpeedEvil | jc: Saying definite stuff, without actually trying it on complex systems leads to choosing the wrong graphics chip. |
| 17:10.21 | jc | in theory it should be better when you're a host since you send the synchronize bit |
| 17:10.22 | SpeedEvil | Or other nastiness. |
| 17:10.28 | jc | :) |
| 17:10.36 | *** join/#openmoko sudhi (n=sudheend@117.192.201.3) |
| 17:11.00 | jc | if only we had the datasheet |
| 17:11.05 | jc | I'd love to see some opengl tech demo |
| 17:11.16 | jc | the display is so beautiful |
| 17:11.32 | *** part/#openmoko sudhi (n=sudheend@117.192.201.3) |
| 17:11.50 | jc | but I guess there are lots of other priorities which is good |
| 17:11.56 | jc | still lot of work to be done |
| 17:11.59 | orzo | i find the touchscreen display akward |
| 17:12.14 | jc | maybe I'll look at the overclock stuff when I get it working and have some time :) |
| 17:12.17 | orzo | its always getting activated when its in my pocket |
| 17:12.25 | *** join/#openmoko gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) |
| 17:12.41 | mwester | orzo: yes, a screen lock would be nice, wouldn't it? |
| 17:13.05 | jc | afaik, 'touching' screen does adc interrupt |
| 17:13.25 | orzo | i had a software screen lock |
| 17:13.30 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 17:13.36 | jc | so its up to the software to figure out that when you touched the screen for 10th time or so and did nothing, it shouldnt light it again |
| 17:13.41 | orzo | that didnt turn off teh display and was unlockable via a touch action |
| 17:14.00 | orzo | so that it'd still get touched and light up |
| 17:14.16 | jc | why not just lock it with a button ? |
| 17:14.28 | jc | first press - lcd is off and locked, can't touch it |
| 17:14.32 | orzo | i was just using what was coded in openmoko |
| 17:14.33 | jc | second press, it comes alive again |
| 17:14.48 | orzo | jc, ya, that would be a lot better |
| 17:15.13 | jc | when you suspend (which is something you do usually), it doesn't wake up on touches in my distro |
| 17:15.25 | jc | also I think adcs are stopped |
| 17:15.58 | orzo | i dont know what an adc is |
| 17:16.10 | jc | analog/digital converter |
| 17:16.22 | jc | the thing inside the cpu that reads whats happening on the touchscreen |
| 17:16.52 | *** join/#openmoko PaulFertser_ (n=pavel@ppp91-77-172-4.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) |
| 17:17.18 | orzo | does the gta02 battery work in teh gta01 ? |
| 17:17.27 | jc | dunno |
| 17:18.05 | *** join/#openmoko Batchy (n=batchy@AVelizy-155-1-44-84.w83-204.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:20.41 | *** join/#openmoko cjb (n=cjb@pullcord.laptop.org) |
| 17:21.09 | orzo | is there reason to think it wouldnt? |
| 17:21.28 | jc | well, does it use the same interface and is it the same size ? |
| 17:21.46 | SpeedEvil | No |
| 17:21.59 | SpeedEvil | The GTA01 battery has only a thermistor - to measure temperature |
| 17:22.13 | SpeedEvil | the GTA02 battery has a chip connected to teh middle pin |
| 17:22.17 | jc | gta02 bat has a counter? |
| 17:22.34 | SpeedEvil | I think they are mechanically compatible, and both will run but not charge on the other |
| 17:22.36 | SpeedEvil | jc: yes |
| 17:22.47 | jc | btw. how do you figure out remaining time and stuff in sysfs ? |
| 17:23.02 | SpeedEvil | haven't looked - no FR |
| 17:23.21 | jc | it just spits out many weird numbers |
| 17:23.35 | jc | there must be some userspace util I'm overlooking |
| 17:25.23 | jc | still its so dumb all the distros show only 'three dot' information |
| 17:28.08 | *** join/#openmoko mokel (n=hole@p5487F66E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:28.47 | mokel | anyone knows why i cannot log in via ssh key to my freerunner? yesterday all worked fine, know i have to enter a password |
| 17:29.11 | jc | mokel check out logs, pam config and whether your keys match |
| 17:29.14 | *** join/#openmoko Dave (n=dave@pool-151-198-26-143.mad.east.verizon.net) |
| 17:29.23 | SpeedEvil | you rebooted or reflashed FR? |
| 17:29.28 | mokel | rebooted |
| 17:29.31 | mokel | nothing else |
| 17:29.35 | SpeedEvil | The MAC will change |
| 17:29.37 | mokel | it worked for weeks |
| 17:29.39 | jc | lol ! |
| 17:29.45 | jc | orly |
| 17:29.54 | SpeedEvil | It's a random MAC. This can cause problems with some configs |
| 17:29.54 | jc | who came up with this genius idea |
| 17:30.02 | SpeedEvil | jc: plz fix. |
| 17:30.05 | jc | :)) |
| 17:30.11 | mokel | how can i solve this now |
| 17:30.12 | mokel | ? |
| 17:30.25 | jc | what mac does it concern ? |
| 17:30.31 | SpeedEvil | mokel: or the other option - you've misconfigured usb0, and are trying to conect to your own box |
| 17:30.35 | SpeedEvil | jc: the USB0 MAC |
| 17:30.37 | jc | if you mean the usb gadget one, you pass it via parameter to kernel |
| 17:30.48 | jc | only thing you have to do is define it in uboot |
| 17:30.53 | mokel | no, everything else is fine |
| 17:30.56 | jc | if it can pass parameters to kernel |
| 17:30.59 | jc | or |
| 17:31.03 | jc | load it as module |
| 17:31.04 | mokel | only login via ssh key does not work |
| 17:31.08 | mokel | when i press enter i am in |
| 17:31.11 | jc | and specify it as a parameter |
| 17:32.07 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@g226196063.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:32.31 | jc | yet another person without root password :) |
| 17:32.36 | mokel | ... |
| 17:32.58 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=rudi@dsbg-4db5f8e7.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 17:34.04 | jc | well for example fdom doesn't use shadow file at all, not very secure either... |
| 17:34.47 | jc | oh what the heck, everyhthing runs as root anyway :D |
| 17:35.06 | *** join/#openmoko Wiedi (n=wiedi@newton-air.w.fruky.net) |
| 17:39.00 | *** join/#openmoko sebbs (n=sebbs@164.Red-81-32-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 17:40.36 | orzo | crap! |
| 17:40.39 | orzo | it's booting |
| 17:40.41 | orzo | what do i do? |
| 17:40.55 | mokel | got it |
| 17:40.56 | jc | what ? |
| 17:41.03 | jc | with gta02 battery ? |
| 17:41.13 | mokel | when you install remoko (i guess) your home changes to user 1000 |
| 17:41.18 | mokel | it must be root |
| 17:41.23 | mokel | damn package |
| 17:41.35 | jc | lol |
| 17:41.46 | mokel | every file from this package is uid 1000 |
| 17:41.53 | jc | everything is so broken I just want to get hign |
| 17:41.55 | jc | h |
| 17:42.13 | orzo | no |
| 17:42.17 | orzo | with gta01 battery |
| 17:42.21 | orzo | it seems to be booted |
| 17:42.23 | orzo | and running |
| 17:42.24 | jc | orzo fr ? |
| 17:42.36 | orzo | i didnt turn it on |
| 17:42.37 | *** join/#openmoko Isajha (n=Isajha4@wrzb-4d00cf6a.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 17:42.38 | orzo | i just had it plugged in |
| 17:42.42 | orzo | its been way less than 4 hours |
| 17:42.52 | jc | so what ? |
| 17:43.06 | orzo | so i thought it would half boot and then i'd have to start the whole process over |
| 17:43.08 | jc | it charged and started ? |
| 17:43.15 | *** join/#openmoko Isajha (n=Isajha4@wrzb-4d00cf6a.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 17:43.21 | orzo | but its apparently up and running |
| 17:43.25 | jc | you have gta01 ? |
| 17:43.33 | orzo | yes, apparently i have a gta01 again |
| 17:43.47 | orzo | but no sim |
| 17:43.57 | jc | oh.. |
| 17:44.01 | jc | then I dunno |
| 17:44.12 | *** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peeps@cpe-70-116-14-46.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 17:44.13 | jc | I have freerunner |
| 17:44.26 | orzo | well |
| 17:44.57 | orzo | i am intending to buy a gophone sim off the shelf |
| 17:45.04 | orzo | will it work? |
| 17:45.09 | orzo | i just need some firmware update? |
| 17:45.54 | jc | dunno... |
| 17:45.54 | *** join/#openmoko christooss1 (n=matic@BSN-95-239-218.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 17:46.08 | jc | I have an extremely old sim and it works fine on fr |
| 17:48.15 | jc | I guess I'd try another sim |
| 17:48.31 | jc | if it doesn't work either it might be a software problem |
| 17:48.47 | *** join/#openmoko guerby (n=guerby@82.61.75-86.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 17:51.08 | orzo | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT |
| 17:51.11 | orzo | is that info current? |
| 17:51.11 | *** part/#openmoko Toutoug (n=ludovic_@tsf-wpa-2-160.epfl.ch) |
| 17:51.17 | orzo | i dont see anything about a firmware update fixing the issue |
| 17:52.06 | jc | not nice |
| 17:52.28 | jc | I'm glad we don't have AT&T here :) |
| 17:53.26 | orzo | its nto att's fault |
| 17:53.40 | orzo | that sim cards dont work |
| 17:53.51 | *** join/#openmoko raff (n=raff@84-73-72-179.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:54.33 | jc | should I compile everything with -mthumb-interwork when I use thumb by default ? |
| 17:54.33 | orzo | is there a way to test a sim without activating it? |
| 17:55.17 | jc | 'activating' ? |
| 17:55.39 | jc | I think i'd read docs to gsm daemon then |
| 17:55.46 | jc | gta02 has some util for that |
| 17:55.53 | jc | could tell you more about whats going on |
| 17:55.56 | *** part/#openmoko mokel (n=hole@p5487F66E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 18:10.37 | *** join/#openmoko ||Leto|| (n=tomboy64@e178058049.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:19.30 | *** join/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@86.56.82.74) |
| 18:21.22 | mjr | soo, decided to try the testing image, how do I input, like, you know, numbers for the pin? |
| 18:21.28 | *** join/#openmoko kirun (n=kirun@78-86-140-200.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:22.01 | Zorkman | move finger up->down on the keyboard |
| 18:22.04 | Zorkman | and the layout will change |
| 18:22.18 | Zorkman | it's in the topic of this chan.... |
| 18:23.09 | mjr | well duh |
| 18:24.06 | *** join/#openmoko peeps[work] (n=peepsalo@rrcs-97-77-8-59.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 18:29.28 | orzo | damn it |
| 18:29.33 | orzo | my gta01 is bricked again |
| 18:29.48 | orzo | it booted up and then i left it alone plugged in and then it rebooted at some point for no reason |
| 18:29.56 | orzo | and now it wont turn on |
| 18:33.16 | *** join/#openmoko jas4711 (n=jas@c80-216-27-189.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 18:34.40 | jc | DAMMIT what's worse than overriding SIGKILL handler !?? f*ck cdrecord ! |
| 18:35.06 | jc | oh.. sorry.. bad window :/ |
| 18:35.40 | sebbs | :D |
| 18:35.54 | sebbs | your funny jc |
| 18:36.06 | jc | :/ |
| 18:36.27 | jc | ... trying to burn dual layer dvd under linux without k3b |
| 18:36.58 | jc | I just admitted defeat and I'm compilling the kde c*ap again |
| 18:37.03 | orzo | i guess i need to flash |
| 18:37.08 | orzo | if i ever get it working again |
| 18:37.27 | orzo | what distro should i use |
| 18:37.32 | orzo | i used tangogps |
| 18:37.41 | jc | afaik thats a program |
| 18:37.43 | dent | jc: why do you use cdrecord? why not growisofs or how's da tool called... |
| 18:37.44 | orzo | which wasnt available for qtopia |
| 18:37.49 | orzo | ya its a program i liked to sue |
| 18:37.58 | jc | dent thx I couldn't find it :P |
| 18:38.11 | dent | jc: np :) |
| 18:38.11 | orzo | what's the most usable platform right now? |
| 18:38.16 | jc | kills qt compilation |
| 18:38.26 | orzo | gps included |
| 18:38.35 | jc | lol thats stupid name :)) |
| 18:39.05 | dent | orzo: I think tangogps is enough of "staple" app to be included in all distros (except for uberl-light images, but still it can be installed later I guess) |
| 18:39.06 | jc | I get it, grow as in plant growing or something |
| 18:39.13 | mrgarlic | i just ran Slax LiveCD in windows machine and it won't boot back into XP. |
| 18:39.17 | jc | green dvd :D |
| 18:39.30 | *** join/#openmoko bumbl (n=bumbl@91-113-57-6.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 18:39.59 | mrgarlic | has anyone had this experience with Slax Disc? |
| 18:40.03 | jc | another thing, how to kill a program that overrides glibc sigkill handler thinking it never crashes :D |
| 18:40.19 | jc | reboot I guess.. |
| 18:40.38 | orzo | i thought signal 9 couldnt be overridden |
| 18:40.46 | dent | ? I don't think it's possible to zap SIGKILL |
| 18:40.48 | dent | yeah |
| 18:40.53 | dent | kill -KILL pid |
| 18:41.00 | jc | nope |
| 18:41.05 | Sargun_Screen | 9 cannot be over ridden |
| 18:41.07 | jc | thats exactly the thing, its overriden |
| 18:41.12 | sebbs | what happends if a uboot update crashes |
| 18:41.17 | dent | then it must be stuck in some uninterruptible sleep |
| 18:41.26 | sebbs | how would one fix that? is that when the debugboard would come in? |
| 18:41.27 | jc | cdrecord is stuck in middle of immutable io operation |
| 18:41.30 | orzo | jc, do you see it overridden in code? or are you jumping to conclusions based on that it doesnt work? |
| 18:41.34 | sebbs | since one can access that other memory? |
| 18:42.04 | jc | I know because my burner sometimes doesn't work right and apps get stuck on it |
| 18:42.13 | Sargun_Screen | sebbs: tap your feet and say "I've gotta paperweight" 3 times! |
| 18:42.21 | jc | but usually they just can be killed |
| 18:42.22 | dent | it's some hw issue then... i.e. app getting stuck waiting for driver |
| 18:42.31 | sebbs | Sargun_Screen: is that really true? |
| 18:42.33 | orzo | well sigkill wont interrupt certain kernel calls |
| 18:42.43 | jc | yup its waiting for some scsi command |
| 18:42.49 | Sargun_Screen | sebbs: no, I'm just kind of an asshole. |
| 18:43.05 | Sargun_Screen | sebbs: can you get into NOR u-boot? |
| 18:43.12 | sebbs | Sargun_Screen: i am autistic so your sarcasm is lost on me. |
| 18:43.23 | sebbs | Sargun_Screen: i would not know |
| 18:43.36 | Sargun_Screen | I am also slightly autistic. |
| 18:44.02 | Sargun_Screen | high functioning autism. |
| 18:44.11 | jc | what is that? :D |
| 18:44.12 | sebbs | i have not done that to my phone i am asking because i am wondering out of curiosity |
| 18:44.18 | sebbs | yes i am high functioning too |
| 18:44.30 | dent | while I feel like I'm nonfunctional... |
| 18:44.43 | sebbs | gives dent a bunny |
| 18:44.43 | dent | anyway there are two uboots... if you kill off one, the other can help |
| 18:44.49 | Sargun_Screen | uhm hit the aux and then power key, can hyou get into u-boot? make sure it's unplugged from usb |
| 18:44.53 | dent | sebbs: muchisimas gracias |
| 18:44.54 | sebbs | where is the otherone |
| 18:45.04 | Sargun_Screen | sebbs: read above |
| 18:45.08 | sebbs | muchismas? |
| 18:45.13 | Sargun_Screen | hit aux, hold, hit power, hold |
| 18:45.21 | sebbs | Sargun_Screen: yes that one i know |
| 18:45.24 | sebbs | that is uboot |
| 18:45.27 | Sargun_Screen | why did you upgrade your uboot anyways? |
| 18:45.36 | sebbs | no you are missundestanding me, i have not done it |
| 18:45.36 | Sargun_Screen | sebbs: can you get to it? |
| 18:45.45 | sebbs | i am wondering what would happend if it where to get screwed |
| 18:45.52 | sebbs | in theory |
| 18:46.01 | Sargun_Screen | oh, nothing other than an inconvience |
| 18:46.02 | spydon | can you call from the android image yet? And where can I find it? :P |
| 18:46.14 | sebbs | i am working out theory, creating a supposed scenaro where the uboot gets crapped |
| 18:46.16 | Sargun_Screen | unless you do something -very- stupid. |
| 18:46.28 | mwester | except on the GTA01 -- you *ARE* screwed on the gta01 as it has no NOR flash. |
| 18:46.40 | sebbs | Sargun_Screen: how can i brick my phone |
| 18:46.42 | mwester | And if that happens, yes, the debug board is the solution. |
| 18:47.07 | sebbs | is basically what i am trying to figure out, i thought about wrecking the uboot, but that would be fixable |
| 18:47.12 | sebbs | mwester: thank you |
| 18:47.23 | jc | I think I'm about to go on crazy rage |
| 18:47.23 | sebbs | so i will not get a debugboard unless i break my phone. |
| 18:47.26 | dent | sebbs: try GSM flashing... killing the gsm chipset might be doable :) |
| 18:47.45 | sebbs | haha flashing the gsm |
| 18:47.49 | dent | (if you jsut want to brick something :) |
| 18:48.00 | sebbs | thats great |
| 18:48.10 | sebbs | i am just curious |
| 18:48.29 | sebbs | i ask alot of questions, some people find it annoying but those people can just /ignore me |
| 18:48.37 | dent | btw. on my laptop the dfu-util finds some other DFU thing apart from the FR, it must be something inside... once I feel adventurous I let dfu-util flash that :) |
| 18:48.41 | Sargun_Screen | sebbs: it's pretty hard to brick the fr. |
| 18:48.54 | Sargun_Screen | but if you try hard enough, you can. |
| 18:48.56 | mwester | dent: that's almost certainly your built-in bluetooth. |
| 18:48.58 | sebbs | Sargun_Screen: that is good |
| 18:49.12 | dent | mwester: sounds reasonable |
| 18:49.25 | sebbs | Sargun_Screen: i think im a bit affected from the old monkey island games, i wish things where not brickable. like in monkey island you cant die. |
| 18:49.30 | sebbs | its kinda idyllic |
| 18:49.55 | *** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@212-183-114-68.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 18:49.57 | *** join/#openmoko uhsf (n=uhsf@modemcable059.11-131-66.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 18:50.01 | *** join/#openmoko GvzEvxre (n=timr@72.62.207.4) |
| 18:50.18 | Sargun_Screen | sebbs: if you open up your fr, hyou can certainly brick it. |
| 18:50.35 | sebbs | Sargun_Screen: yes but i ment it only on the software side |
| 18:50.45 | sebbs | i could smash a brick on it |
| 18:50.47 | sebbs | to brick it |
| 18:51.11 | Sargun_Screen | Just make sure you read the instructions |
| 18:51.29 | sebbs | Sargun_Screen: yes i have read alot today. |
| 18:51.45 | jc | you can like still reprogram it via jtag |
| 18:51.58 | sebbs | reprogram what via jtag |
| 18:52.05 | sebbs | what is jtag |
| 18:52.24 | jc | !google jtag |
| 18:52.26 | Sargun_Screen | something you get via the debug board |
| 18:52.26 | cdbot2 | Images @ http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=jtag&safe=off&lr=lang_all&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi%20onclick=gbar.qs(this)%20class=gb1 | Boundary-Scan (<em>JTAG</em>) test and i @ http://www.jtag.com/%20class=l | A Brief Introduction to <em>JTAG</em> @ http://www.inaccessnetworks.com/projects/ianjtag/jtag-intro/jtag-intro.html%20class=l |
| 18:52.33 | Sargun_Screen | letmegooglethatforyou.com |
| 18:52.48 | jc | not only debug board |
| 18:52.55 | jc | if you disassemble it you can tap into it |
| 18:53.01 | sebbs | jc: i am googling jtag but i did not know which one you ment |
| 18:53.09 | sebbs | jtag means alot of things |
| 18:53.19 | jc | its a serial bus for hardware testing |
| 18:53.25 | sebbs | ah ok |
| 18:53.28 | sebbs | thank you i will read up on it |
| 18:53.33 | jc | if everything is soldered ok on the circuit board |
| 18:53.43 | jc | also it allows for some chips to reprogram their memories |
| 18:53.52 | jc | thats the case for the cpu of freerunner for example |
| 18:53.58 | sebbs | ah |
| 18:54.00 | sebbs | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:54.07 | jc | also sometimes jtag allows you to debug code directly on the cpu |
| 18:54.14 | jc | I think thats also the case for fr cpu |
| 18:54.32 | jc | so you can debrick it anytime |
| 18:54.49 | jc | jtag works regardless of whats the contents of any memories in the system |
| 18:55.19 | jc | its a state machine implemented on die in the chips, can't change it |
| 18:56.12 | jc | but still, it requires you to open your fr completely |
| 18:56.19 | jc | I think fr has some weird screws |
| 18:56.23 | SpeedEvil | Torx |
| 18:56.26 | SpeedEvil | hardly wierd |
| 18:56.45 | SpeedEvil | And no. |
| 18:56.50 | Sargun_Screen | it's SpeedEvil! |
| 18:56.53 | SpeedEvil | You can't brick the FR without a debug board. |
| 18:57.05 | jc | you can |
| 18:57.12 | jc | you just erase nand and nor |
| 18:57.13 | SpeedEvil | The NOR flash holds a copy of u-boot which you cannot write without teh debug board |
| 18:57.18 | Sargun_Screen | SpeedEvil: you can, you can nuke gsm |
| 18:57.18 | jc | and then what :) |
| 18:57.31 | jc | and gps too |
| 18:57.33 | SpeedEvil | Sargun_Screen: well - yes. But the FR still works as it did before. |
| 18:57.38 | Zorkman | jc: you can't erase both withouth debugboard |
| 18:58.01 | Sargun_Screen | SpeedEvil: without gsm, an fr is barely an fr. |
| 18:58.16 | SpeedEvil | Sargun_Screen: I was commenting on the state of phone functionality. |
| 18:58.19 | Zorkman | with working gsm, it would be no longer be a FR to me ;-) |
| 18:58.39 | jc | Zorkman why not ? |
| 18:58.50 | Zorkman | because we're all in love with the bugs :) |
| 18:59.05 | jc | you just run your os from ram |
| 18:59.11 | jc | and get it to erase nor and nand |
| 18:59.21 | SpeedEvil | jc: the FR _cannot_ erase NOR |
| 18:59.26 | jc | then you don't get USB DFU anymore so its bricked |
| 18:59.28 | SpeedEvil | jc: only the debug board can do that |
| 18:59.36 | Zorkman | jc: trust it, you CAN NOT erase NOR withouth a debug board |
| 18:59.38 | jc | cpu hasn't write access to it ? :P |
| 18:59.44 | SpeedEvil | jc: yes |
| 18:59.49 | jc | thats evil |
| 18:59.57 | Sargun_Screen | SpeedEvil: you can nuke the board by mucking with things enough. |
| 19:00.02 | SpeedEvil | Sargun_Screen: yes |
| 19:00.03 | leinirAWAY | jc: That's safe |
| 19:00.12 | jc | also, evil |
| 19:00.16 | SpeedEvil | Sargun_Screen: 1.8V to 5V may do it |
| 19:00.20 | leinirAWAY | It means that the neo1973 is brickable, while the freerunner isn't ;) |
| 19:00.45 | jc | but what if I find u-boot ugly and want to use my thing |
| 19:00.45 | SpeedEvil | Sargun_Screen: you can make it so you brick NAND - burn out the flash chip, and have to hold the key down every time |
| 19:00.58 | jc | and dont want to pay for a debugboard expensive |
| 19:00.58 | Zorkman | jc: you can flash uboot |
| 19:01.04 | SpeedEvil | jc: you only get NOR uboot, if you hold down one key on boot |
| 19:01.09 | Zorkman | and you can change it andput qi on it |
| 19:01.10 | leinirAWAY | jc: Ehrm... you flash e.g. Qi onto it, since it boots from NAND by default :) |
| 19:01.10 | SpeedEvil | I forget which one it is. |
| 19:01.20 | SpeedEvil | It is _solely_ an emergency recovery device |
| 19:01.27 | jc | but what if I don't like the one in NOR ;) |
| 19:01.32 | SpeedEvil | It is _solely_ an emergency recovery device |
| 19:01.51 | dent | jc: then you f...ing get a debugboard :) |
| 19:01.57 | Sargun_Screen | SpeedEvil: you could probably cause the device to put too much power somewhere. |
| 19:02.06 | jc | what if I don't want it? :P I bought a phone already... |
| 19:02.08 | *** join/#openmoko guerby (n=guerby@82.61.75-86.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 19:02.18 | dent | jc: then you should stop irritating ppl :) |
| 19:02.21 | SpeedEvil | Sargun_Screen: 1.8V to 5V may do it |
| 19:02.33 | leinirAWAY | Or build a debugboard ;) |
| 19:02.36 | jc | damn, cant even tap to a damn jtag :D |
| 19:02.39 | SpeedEvil | Sargun_Screen: Set the 1.8V rail to 5V |
| 19:02.48 | jc | well I'd have to open the thing in the first place :P |
| 19:03.00 | jc | why couldn't you use normal screws.. |
| 19:03.01 | SpeedEvil | The connector for the debug board is an utter bitch. |
| 19:03.08 | SpeedEvil | jc: torx are _common_ |
| 19:03.14 | leinirAWAY | Because torx are nice when things are so tiny |
| 19:03.24 | jc | how come no shop around here then sells a screwdriver for it |
| 19:03.33 | dent | nah, come on |
| 19:03.33 | Sargun_Screen | peeps[work]: would that nuke the cpu? |
| 19:03.34 | SpeedEvil | jc: because your shops suck |
| 19:03.42 | Sargun_Screen | jc: because your shops suck |
| 19:03.45 | Sargun_Screen | haha |
| 19:03.47 | Sargun_Screen | damn lag |
| 19:03.52 | dent | nah, because he sucks |
| 19:03.55 | SpeedEvil | Where are you jc? |
| 19:04.05 | jc | Czech republic |
| 19:04.08 | jc | gotta admit |
| 19:04.16 | jc | its an utter fun pissing you off :)) |
| 19:04.22 | orzo | FDOM distro seems to have only a single image. Does that work on both gta01 and gta02 ? |
| 19:04.33 | SpeedEvil | is not yet pissed off |
| 19:04.34 | leinirAWAY | This isn't pissing off, jc, this is making yourself look like a complete idiot ;) |
| 19:04.34 | *** join/#openmoko Guilt (i=7aa7221c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-572e4b25be202f49) |
| 19:05.01 | jc | orly, I bought and open phone and I can't tap into its JTAG |
| 19:05.11 | dent | then buy a nokia |
| 19:05.13 | Sargun_Screen | jc: why not? |
| 19:05.16 | jc | thing I can do even with proprietary waps I have lying around here |
| 19:05.23 | jc | because I can't get it unscrewed |
| 19:05.31 | Sargun_Screen | hhaha, bahahaha |
| 19:05.37 | SpeedEvil | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Torx-T6-Screwdriver-for-Nokia-Samsung-Sony-Ericsson-UK_W0QQitemZ280293858378QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MobilePhones_MobilePhoneAccessories_MobilePhoneBatteries?hash=item280293858378&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318 |
| 19:05.44 | SpeedEvil | one pound, delivered. |
| 19:05.57 | SpeedEvil | (though I suspect that one more local to you would be more sane) |
| 19:06.05 | SpeedEvil | (and I'm not completeyl sure that's the size) |
| 19:06.27 | jc | hey, good price |
| 19:06.37 | SpeedEvil | It is |
| 19:06.42 | SpeedEvil | (the size) |
| 19:06.45 | jc | here they don't sell them |
| 19:06.52 | jc | they don't even have f*cking cplds |
| 19:06.56 | SpeedEvil | Internet killed retail. |
| 19:07.02 | jc | I'm just sharing bloody frustration |
| 19:07.07 | SpeedEvil | CPLDs are dead-ends. |
| 19:07.22 | *** join/#openmoko polymar (n=polymar@12.186.229.30) |
| 19:07.22 | jc | how else do you want to do PAL encoding |
| 19:07.29 | jc | on an avr ? |
| 19:07.33 | SpeedEvil | FPGA, micro, ... |
| 19:07.42 | jc | cplds are fast and good |
| 19:07.55 | jc | fpgas are too big for something |
| 19:08.12 | jc | and they don't sell even fpgas anyway |
| 19:08.36 | jc | until this year, the most powerfull micro you could buy here was arm7tdmi |
| 19:08.48 | jc | now they threw in atmel arm9s |
| 19:09.04 | jc | and before that, you couldn't even get arm |
| 19:09.05 | jc | dammit |
| 19:09.18 | *** join/#openmoko tolessi (n=tolessi@h195202184107.med.cm.kabsi.at) |
| 19:09.30 | *** join/#openmoko quatrox (n=quatrox@58.80-202-61.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:10.07 | Sargun_Screen | who is they? |
| 19:10.19 | jc | gme, the monopolous local distributor |
| 19:10.30 | Sargun_Screen | I havent mucked with cplds too much |
| 19:10.34 | Sargun_Screen | how are they? |
| 19:10.36 | jc | me neither |
| 19:10.39 | jc | oooh why oh why |
| 19:10.45 | jc | guess why it could be |
| 19:11.18 | jc | they're good for generic stuff, bad for anything above an 8bit micro |
| 19:11.38 | jc | (and even 8bits they usually have only in dip packages) |
| 19:11.53 | quatrox | I use SHR. I inserted my sim card after booting the phone and does not want to reboot. What do I need to do to activate it? |
| 19:12.42 | Sargun_Screen | you mean a software microcontroller? |
| 19:13.40 | SpeedEvil | jc: the problem I have with CPLDs is http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=122-1541-ND |
| 19:13.42 | SpeedEvil | forex |
| 19:13.49 | SpeedEvil | $7, 50000 gates |
| 19:14.35 | orzo | man |
| 19:14.41 | orzo | does FDOM work on gta01 ? |
| 19:14.47 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.94.236) |
| 19:15.27 | *** part/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@86.56.82.74) |
| 19:15.41 | Sargun_Screen | SpeedEvil: what's the actual size for that? |
| 19:15.50 | SpeedEvil | 144tqfp |
| 19:15.54 | Sargun_Screen | ah |
| 19:15.55 | jc | SpeedEvil the problem I have with FPGAS is they aren't available and they consume a lot of power (or at least so people say) |
| 19:16.22 | orzo | guess i wont be installing fdom |
| 19:16.27 | Sargun_Screen | the problem with fpgas are that they're huge, expensive, and not ultra efficent. |
| 19:16.38 | jc | all I need is like make only a few registers, implement some fast hanfling stuff with gates and tap all that to a slow mcu for control |
| 19:17.03 | jc | not write an arm core for fpga to twiddle a signal |
| 19:17.25 | jc | *d |
| 19:20.02 | orzo | fdom wiki pages dont say it works only for gta02, but they dont offer a separate gta01 image to download |
| 19:20.24 | orzo | is it possible that one rootfs image works on both? |
| 19:21.20 | TAsn | I can't seem to set dropbear to use my pub key |
| 19:21.24 | TAsn | even after going through |
| 19:21.25 | TAsn | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#SSH_Keys |
| 19:22.17 | TAsn | any ideas? |
| 19:24.59 | orzo | http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2008.9/ |
| 19:25.14 | orzo | how come they have gta01 lowlevel images but no gta02 rootfs for om2008.9 ? |
| 19:25.19 | orzo | er |
| 19:25.26 | orzo | i mean, no gta01 rootfs |
| 19:25.32 | *** join/#openmoko guerby (n=guerby@86.75.61.82) |
| 19:26.04 | Guilt | is Andy around here? |
| 19:26.48 | orzo | im a bit frustrated |
| 19:27.06 | orzo | more than a bit really |
| 19:27.12 | orzo | all the gta02 stuff is noise |
| 19:27.17 | orzo | when i'm looking for gta01 stuff |
| 19:27.23 | orzo | nothing is ever clear |
| 19:27.37 | dent | http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/neo1973/ ? |
| 19:27.47 | dent | I see some gta01 stuff there |
| 19:27.53 | orzo | ok, so shr |
| 19:28.03 | orzo | is that the only distro then? |
| 19:28.10 | dent | aha, U're asking botu fdom, sorry |
| 19:28.16 | dent | I'm SHR-trigger-happy :) |
| 19:28.45 | orzo | fdom or even om2008.9 |
| 19:28.56 | orzo | nobody clearly supports gta01 |
| 19:29.16 | orzo | but its weakly implied |
| 19:29.24 | orzo | fdom says "openmoko phones" |
| 19:29.56 | orzo | om2008.9 download page has gta01 low level images but no rootfs |
| 19:30.55 | uhsf | c |
| 19:31.58 | orzo | so i'm stuck with shr? |
| 19:32.04 | *** join/#openmoko edje (n=chatzill@pced.ipv6.kapitein.org) |
| 19:33.11 | *** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@84.78.178.63) |
| 19:33.57 | orzo | "Do not attempt to install 2008.9 to the Neo 1973 (GTA01). It is not compatible with this earlier model. " |
| 19:39.21 | jonkristian | orzo: shr is awesome |
| 19:40.04 | jonkristian | Every time i flashed om* releases, I've wound up re-flashing back to shr in a matter of hours. |
| 19:41.01 | *** join/#openmoko hozer (n=hozer@excalibur.hozed.org) |
| 19:41.45 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.95.165) |
| 19:42.27 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.95.165) |
| 19:43.44 | Wonka | .oO( hm, stop using gta01 as a phone - start using it to control quadcopters and other robots... ) |
| 19:44.33 | hozer | heheh |
| 19:44.36 | zash | Wonka: awesomeness! |
| 19:44.56 | *** join/#openmoko poco (n=neil@vau06-1-89-85-32-52.dsl.club-internet.fr) |
| 19:45.02 | hozer | has anyone build a mercurial ipkg? |
| 19:45.38 | hozer | Wonka: or a power meter.. |
| 19:45.42 | hozer | http://www.grid.coop/meter.jpg |
| 19:46.01 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 19:46.45 | zash | haha, "watts up" |
| 19:46.51 | Wonka | .coop? what's that? |
| 19:47.10 | hozer | domain if you intend to be a cooperative organization |
| 19:47.11 | jc | exactly the reason why I got mine |
| 19:47.17 | hozer | or stuff for coops |
| 19:47.44 | hozer | I got the idea from tech.coop |
| 19:47.52 | Wonka | nice one |
| 19:48.06 | Wonka | but what a dirty macbook... |
| 19:48.11 | hozer | hey:P |
| 19:48.25 | hozer | the picture made all the dirt worse apparently |
| 19:48.53 | orzo | i added a hardware support table to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions because it's a hassel navigating all over the place to figure out what distros work on gta01 |
| 19:49.50 | jc | nice |
| 19:50.07 | jc | I bet it'll start to piss even more people off once gta03 is out |
| 19:50.41 | orzo | well i left a lot of blanks |
| 19:51.03 | hozer | all I want to know right now is what distro has mercurial :P |
| 19:51.38 | Wonka | hozer: debian has |
| 19:51.39 | jc | you could always compile it by hand |
| 19:51.44 | hozer | well |
| 19:51.53 | hozer | I'd have to get a cross compiler, or figure out how to install self-hosted gcc |
| 19:52.00 | hozer | and .. um, I'm already out of space ;) |
| 19:52.03 | jc | theres a toolchain in the wiki |
| 19:52.08 | jc | cross toolchain |
| 19:52.11 | mwester | orzo: both Qtopia and Qt Extended run on the GTA01 |
| 19:52.11 | Wonka | hozer: "apt-get install build-essential" |
| 19:52.30 | Wonka | that's debians biggest advantage - having masses of packets already done |
| 19:52.40 | hozer | Wonka: there's no way that's fitting on flash ;) |
| 19:52.43 | Wonka | disadvantage: no e, no illume |
| 19:52.51 | Wonka | hozer: 8GB microSDHC |
| 19:53.02 | jc | I don't like illume |
| 19:53.11 | Wonka | does |
| 19:53.11 | hozer | I have a 4G right now |
| 19:53.15 | jc | I understand its so damn slow just because of the transparency ? |
| 19:53.32 | Wonka | switch it off? |
| 19:53.34 | jc | well I thought originally it was glamos fault |
| 19:53.36 | orzo | i thought qtopia = qt extended |
| 19:53.50 | orzo | qtopia isnt listed in any of the tables |
| 19:53.52 | mwester | qtopia == old, qt extended == current |
| 19:54.00 | jc | until I saw a 320x240 video play stretched full screen totally fluidly |
| 19:55.21 | Wonka | http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-SanDisk-16GB-microSD-High-Capacity-microSDHC-Card_W0QQitemZ350139423822QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDigital_Camera_Memory_Card_Adapters_Readers?hash=item350139423822&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1199|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50 |
| 19:55.39 | jc | 16GB SDHC works ? |
| 19:55.44 | Wonka | 16GB microSDHC, but *ouch* only class2 |
| 19:55.52 | Wonka | jc: should, i think |
| 19:56.03 | Wonka | there's no hw limit i know of |
| 19:56.04 | jc | really ? |
| 19:56.06 | jc | could you pls try ? |
| 19:56.26 | orzo | mwester: i cant find a qt extended page for neo1973 |
| 19:56.35 | jc | I think the sd controller is embedded in the cpu |
| 19:56.37 | pjz | anyone have votes for 'most stable' distro for GTA02? |
| 19:56.39 | Wonka | http://cgi.ebay.com/8GB-Micro-SD-HC-SDHC-MicroSD-Memory-Card-8-G-GB-OEM-new_W0QQitemZ220328091519QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item220328091519&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1199|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1309|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50 |
| 19:56.43 | jc | so it might depend on its capabilities |
| 19:56.46 | Wonka | jc: won't buy that one. |
| 19:57.03 | Wonka | jc: and the sdhc is tied to the glamo |
| 19:57.05 | mjr | wonders if even class two is of practical hinderance considering the freerunner's slow sd access anyway |
| 19:57.06 | uhsf | is there a noticable speed increase for the freerunner from the sandisk "ultra" microsd? |
| 19:57.28 | uhsf | the 16gb is not "ultra" |
| 19:57.30 | jc | even better |
| 19:57.39 | jc | so now nothing is certain |
| 19:58.01 | Wonka | 8gb class 6... |
| 19:58.04 | Wonka | rather my thing |
| 19:58.41 | jc | still not much but much better than nothing |
| 19:58.47 | jc | did you see openpandora ? |
| 19:58.56 | jc | two sdhc sdio capable slots :)) |
| 19:59.01 | jc | no size limit |
| 19:59.51 | Wonka | sounds like fun |
| 20:00.23 | hozer | what distro are the openpandora people running? |
| 20:00.30 | jc | angstrom I think |
| 20:00.37 | jc | also they got ubuntu running |
| 20:00.40 | *** part/#openmoko uhsf (n=uhsf@modemcable059.11-131-66.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 20:00.43 | Wonka | i'd like to have the gta04 a non-size-limited microsdhc slot and an externally accessible non-size-limited, sdio and sdhc capable sd slot |
| 20:00.44 | jc | with firefox |
| 20:00.45 | hozer | angstrom, is that openenbedded? |
| 20:00.47 | jc | full firefox on an ARM |
| 20:00.51 | jc | :) |
| 20:00.55 | jc | no speed penalty |
| 20:01.06 | azaghal | jc: That looks like an interesting device :) |
| 20:01.06 | Wonka | (too late for gta03, i think) |
| 20:01.07 | jc | full gnome and everything |
| 20:01.16 | jc | check it out on youtube |
| 20:01.18 | hozer | nice |
| 20:01.21 | jc | and its arm |
| 20:01.24 | Wonka | also, i am happy about gta03 featuring u-blox 5 |
| 20:01.27 | jc | extremely power conservative |
| 20:01.47 | jc | its uptime stretches from some 9 hours to 100ds |
| 20:01.57 | *** join/#openmoko zmedico (n=zmedico@ip68-4-152-120.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 20:02.00 | Wonka | full 3G would be nice too, but that's also earliest in gta04... |
| 20:02.04 | jc | but it looks ugly... |
| 20:02.12 | jc | yeah |
| 20:02.17 | azaghal | Is it still unknown how the GTA03 will look like? |
| 20:02.18 | jc | but still it won't beat pandora by a long shot ;) |
| 20:02.24 | jc | pandora starts at 600 MHz I think |
| 20:02.30 | jc | overclockable to 1GHz |
| 20:02.33 | hozer | how much does the pandora cost |
| 20:02.43 | hozer | oh, dun. $330 US |
| 20:02.44 | jc | full DSP instructions, and stuff |
| 20:02.48 | jc | SIMD instructions |
| 20:02.53 | jc | of course an fpu |
| 20:03.00 | jc | and all that stuff |
| 20:03.02 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@pdpc/supporter/active/bluelightning) |
| 20:03.06 | jc | also funny is, its cheaper than freerunner |
| 20:03.13 | jc | but it has no gsm and looks bad |
| 20:03.18 | jc | it was made to emulate games |
| 20:03.35 | jc | supposedly it should emulate playstation at full speed when they get opengl fully working |
| 20:03.46 | jc | oh forgot to mention it has opengl with some crazy fill rates |
| 20:04.00 | CVirus | lol |
| 20:04.07 | hozer | heh |
| 20:04.13 | hozer | too bad they sold out wwwaaaaay early |
| 20:04.26 | jc | and they're not keeping the schedule |
| 20:04.44 | jc | thats why I've decided to screw it, I needed a PDA so I got a freerunner |
| 20:04.55 | jc | and to my initial sceptism, I'm actually very happy with it |
| 20:05.08 | jc | its just magical to carry around a little helpful linux device with you |
| 20:05.19 | hozer | jc: do you use the gsm much? |
| 20:05.23 | jc | also pandora doesn't have gsm and gps |
| 20:05.44 | jc | hozer yes but I don't have quite the highest call traffic :) |
| 20:06.12 | jc | thats what I think, freerunner will be good as a phone and a generic touchscreen control device for homebrew |
| 20:06.27 | jc | and pandora as a powerful gaming device/portable desktop |
| 20:06.33 | hozer | jc: no kidding |
| 20:06.49 | jc | not bad to have both |
| 20:07.12 | hozer | I need to get price quotes on something like 100-1000 moko's or pandoras |
| 20:07.18 | hozer | without a case |
| 20:07.19 | jc | really the analog sticks and stuff are crazy :) |
| 20:08.17 | igor321 | pandora hes beagleboards cpu, right? |
| 20:08.26 | jc | TI OMAP |
| 20:08.28 | hozer | how much would y'all pay for a smart power strip that had an openmoko phone in it ;) |
| 20:08.45 | igor321 | i don't think that's much more powerful than gta03's samsung |
| 20:08.54 | jc | pandora ? |
| 20:08.58 | igor321 | yupp |
| 20:09.05 | jc | 1 GHZ ARM ? :D |
| 20:09.09 | hozer | whoa |
| 20:09.15 | hozer | looks at the beagleboard |
| 20:09.23 | jc | Texas Instruments ! |
| 20:09.24 | jc | OMAP |
| 20:09.25 | igor321 | it's not 1 ghz, one could oc 6410 to 1 ghz also |
| 20:09.27 | jc | wait ill find it |
| 20:09.41 | jc | yeah its officially overclockable to this freq |
| 20:09.45 | igor321 | i've got an beagleboard, i know how powerfull it is |
| 20:09.50 | jc | but standard is 600 MHz I think |
| 20:09.59 | hozer | igor321: do it have wifi? |
| 20:10.00 | igor321 | nah, it ain't official |
| 20:10.07 | igor321 | 700 is pushin it |
| 20:10.16 | igor321 | hozer: nope, not on the board |
| 20:10.28 | jc | maybe it gets hot but they said they can make 1 GHz |
| 20:10.32 | igor321 | easily expandable thru usb host mode though |
| 20:10.41 | jc | yeah, usb 2.0 btw |
| 20:10.49 | hozer | that is still damn cheap |
| 20:10.55 | jc | also 500 mA source |
| 20:11.04 | igor321 | jc: i really don't belive they did, i remember reading that 700 or 800 mhz is pushing it |
| 20:11.08 | jc | it has to have a way bigger battery though |
| 20:11.12 | igor321 | i might be wrong though |
| 20:11.25 | igor321 | i'm talking about the beagle, but it's the same cpu |
| 20:11.38 | hozer | freakin-a |
| 20:12.14 | jc | dammit they took down the wiki, I can't find it |
| 20:12.24 | hozer | that thing is COOL |
| 20:12.32 | jc | btw. you know what they did recently ? |
| 20:12.51 | jc | : Because of the bank issue (see below), we have decided to give the Pandora some more RAM. It will now have 256MB! And 512MB NAND, which is quite nice, eh? And nope, that won't delay the production. |
| 20:13.49 | hozer | is there any way to gig Gig-E onto the beagleboard? |
| 20:15.02 | pjz | jc: what distro do you hjave on your gta02? |
| 20:16.16 | jc | pjz: FDOM for the time being |
| 20:19.47 | pjz | is kind of casting arund for a new distro because qtopia 4.4.2 let him down |
| 20:19.53 | pjz | or maybe I just need a new kernel |
| 20:20.21 | jc | yeah I had to get a newest om kernel just to get suspend and stuff working |
| 20:21.05 | pjz | such a pain to find a working image/kernel pair |
| 20:21.14 | jc | yup |
| 20:21.24 | jc | as always, you could compile it yourself |
| 20:21.53 | pjz | sure, and I could build a new house out of toothpicks too, but that doesn't make it any less painful |
| 20:22.33 | jc | it would work the way you want then :) |
| 20:22.55 | jc | if you don't want pain then why did you bought a first ever open source phone then ;) |
| 20:23.09 | pjz | oh, I'm a dev from way back, I don't mind a little pain |
| 20:23.19 | pjz | it's the mounting pain month after month that's getting to me |
| 20:23.21 | jc | way back ? |
| 20:23.32 | jc | in the fortran figure of speech? :D |
| 20:23.47 | pjz | has been running debian since '93, and yes, learned fortran in school |
| 20:23.59 | pjz | I'm not *that* old though |
| 20:24.09 | jc | nice, I was just 3 yrs back then :P |
| 20:24.17 | pjz | heh |
| 20:24.18 | jc | but I started pretty early with linux too |
| 20:24.25 | jc | at about 9 |
| 20:24.25 | pjz | that's cool |
| 20:24.29 | sebbs | pjz: why did it |
| 20:24.39 | pjz | why did what? |
| 20:24.50 | sebbs | pjz: i was just thinking about flashing my neo to try qtopia out |
| 20:25.00 | *** join/#openmoko qhartman (n=qhartman@74.93.188.113) |
| 20:25.02 | pjz | sebbs: oh, lack of suspend/resume is the main thing |
| 20:25.05 | sebbs | why did qtopia let you down |
| 20:25.07 | sebbs | oh |
| 20:25.13 | pjz | sebbs: means if I forget to charge it one night, I'm scrood |
| 20:25.23 | sebbs | scrood why? |
| 20:25.32 | pjz | b/c now I'm at work with a dead phone |
| 20:25.38 | sebbs | dead? |
| 20:25.38 | pjz | charger at home |
| 20:25.44 | sebbs | ooh |
| 20:25.47 | pjz | won't seem to charge too well off the USB |
| 20:25.53 | pjz | for wahtever reason |
| 20:26.00 | pjz | right now it's booting up to the 'openmoko' screen and hanging |
| 20:26.10 | sebbs | i had that happend |
| 20:26.11 | pjz | no idea why |
| 20:26.19 | henk | pjz: remove battery, attach charger, boot to nor (or nand?), insert battery, boot. |
| 20:26.21 | jc | i'd try removing the battery, |
| 20:26.23 | jc | yep |
| 20:26.27 | jc | exactly |
| 20:26.36 | jc | works for me like a breeze |
| 20:26.40 | sebbs | removing the battery fixed that for me |
| 20:27.04 | sebbs | its like those old c64s you had to remove the cable and let it cool down |
| 20:27.18 | pjz | my c64 never did that :P |
| 20:27.19 | jc | I have a c64 here still :D |
| 20:27.19 | sebbs | or was it the vic20 |
| 20:27.24 | jc | mine neither :D |
| 20:27.32 | sebbs | i dont remember which one it was |
| 20:27.37 | sebbs | i miss my c64 |
| 20:27.45 | jc | mines SID isn't working :/ |
| 20:27.53 | pjz | though I do remember getting a C64->rs232 converter so I could plug in my super fast 1200 baud hayes smartmodem |
| 20:28.03 | sebbs | i had a c64 emulator on my noki |
| 20:28.06 | sebbs | nokia |
| 20:28.12 | sebbs | played last ninja on it |
| 20:28.15 | sebbs | sweet |
| 20:28.16 | jc | 100BaseT network card would be good too :D |
| 20:28.41 | jc | whats cool about c64 is the simple assembler and the possibilities |
| 20:28.48 | jc | very fun and simple device to hack |
| 20:29.02 | sebbs | that rasters keyboard is sweet, too bad you cant type on it proper |
| 20:29.02 | jc | even in basic |
| 20:29.15 | jc | wel I hated PETSCII |
| 20:29.18 | jc | *well |
| 20:29.37 | TAsn | no one has any idea about how to use key authorization with the moko? |
| 20:29.42 | jc | but thats about the only thing I hated about it... |
| 20:29.52 | jc | the synths were so cool and easy to use |
| 20:29.59 | sebbs | what synths |
| 20:30.01 | jc | nowadays nobody does music with adsrs anymore |
| 20:30.05 | jc | in the sid |
| 20:30.06 | sebbs | I DO I DO |
| 20:30.11 | sebbs | :D |
| 20:30.18 | sebbs | i build adsr:s |
| 20:30.22 | sebbs | :D |
| 20:30.37 | jc | but the sid has kinda a specific touch to it |
| 20:30.49 | jc | it screws the sound up nicely in kind of a MOS way :D |
| 20:30.51 | sebbs | well its not difficult to emulate |
| 20:30.52 | jc | *NMOS |
| 20:31.02 | sebbs | the schematics forthe chips are there |
| 20:31.04 | sebbs | as is the math |
| 20:31.05 | jc | you add modulator interference |
| 20:31.13 | sebbs | so i mean is basically just putting it all togeather |
| 20:31.20 | jc | and you get a beautifully distorted sound that is pure genius |
| 20:31.22 | sebbs | i build a CHIP one which sounds pretty decent |
| 20:31.35 | jc | also the noise gen is good |
| 20:31.54 | jc | you could get a SID and tap into it... |
| 20:31.58 | sebbs | modulartor interference? |
| 20:32.06 | jc | yeah, RF modulator |
| 20:32.10 | sebbs | ah |
| 20:32.11 | sebbs | got it |
| 20:32.15 | sebbs | modulators |
| 20:32.17 | jc | the thing you connect to tv |
| 20:32.29 | sebbs | i know like LFOs |
| 20:32.34 | sebbs | and VCOs etc |
| 20:32.35 | jc | nah |
| 20:32.38 | sebbs | tv? |
| 20:32.42 | jc | you have the sound generated |
| 20:32.45 | sebbs | whta are we talking about |
| 20:32.52 | jc | and then you send it to tv |
| 20:33.10 | sebbs | i think i must have completly missundestood you |
| 20:33.12 | jc | modulator is the thing that converts rgb video and pcm sound to PAL/NTSC |
| 20:33.18 | sebbs | adsr you mean attach delay substain release? |
| 20:33.24 | sebbs | its like a filter |
| 20:33.24 | jc | attack |
| 20:33.28 | sebbs | haha |
| 20:33.30 | sebbs | yes attack |
| 20:33.30 | jc | yeah |
| 20:33.36 | sebbs | i was in a /attached/ folder |
| 20:33.45 | jc | it had sawtooth, square and sine generators I think |
| 20:33.46 | sebbs | ok |
| 20:33.50 | jc | and white noise also |
| 20:33.51 | sebbs | oh now i see |
| 20:34.00 | sebbs | you are talking about how its built up |
| 20:34.05 | sebbs | ok yes |
| 20:34.06 | sebbs | sawtooth |
| 20:34.13 | sebbs | and a wave square |
| 20:34.14 | jc | oh do yourself a favor and listen to a c64 tune :)) |
| 20:34.15 | sebbs | like you said |
| 20:34.33 | jc | no point talking about it ;) |
| 20:35.22 | jc | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p28bWameXNM&feature=related |
| 20:35.48 | jc | this is emulated |
| 20:38.01 | jc | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztgTA0ch9nQ&feature=related |
| 20:38.03 | jc | even better :) |
| 20:38.57 | *** join/#openmoko Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 20:39.06 | pjz | what kernel are you using with fdom? the fdom page at compartida.net doesn't recommend one |
| 20:39.22 | jc | pjz the recent openmoko one |
| 20:39.43 | jc | 2008.something |
| 20:39.45 | *** join/#openmoko xcasex (n=rrg@71-197.lerstenen.t3.se) |
| 20:39.50 | pjz | ah |
| 20:40.10 | *** join/#openmoko sebbs (n=sebbs@66.Red-83-33-178.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 20:41.27 | *** join/#openmoko los_ (n=los@194.29.137.44) |
| 20:42.53 | Sargun | Can someone kill Karthik Kumar? |
| 20:46.47 | *** join/#openmoko kirsch (n=kirsch@p5DCE76DA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:47.03 | kirsch | hi all |
| 20:47.09 | Guilt | Sargun: kill me. |
| 20:47.12 | kirsch | i have a problem: |
| 20:48.30 | Guilt | I finally gave a suggestion which nobody responded to anyway. I'll just wait before I judge. |
| 20:48.40 | kirsch | i just got a 2 GB card and puted hackable1 on it. when i try to boot from sd the booting process tells me that there is an IO error reading the SD card! |
| 20:48.46 | Sargun | Guilt, are you the guy threatening to sue Openmoko? |
| 20:48.51 | kirsch | i tried ext2 and ext3, None works |
| 20:48.57 | kirsch | pls help!! |
| 20:49.05 | Sargun | kirsch, Spell out your words. |
| 20:49.13 | Guilt | Sargun: read the whole thread, with Wolfgang's replies. |
| 20:49.18 | Guilt | and my replies. |
| 20:49.28 | kirsch | please help!! |
| 20:51.33 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r8909b59fda7d 10/ (ChangeLog framework/subsystems/ogsmd/server.py): |
| 20:51.33 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: Implemented org.freesmartphone.GSM.Phone.[Start|Stop]AutoRegister() |
| 20:51.33 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: and its signal org.freesmartphone.GSM.Phone.ServiceStatus() |
| 20:51.33 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: This is a convenient way to ensure that ogsmd always tries to unlock the SIM |
| 20:51.34 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: and register with a provider, if necessary. |
| 20:51.36 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: (Corresponding functionality for Gprs is under discussion). |
| 20:51.38 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * red2c567ef1bb 10/tools/cli-framework: tools: add gsmphone to cli-framework |
| 20:51.49 | *** join/#openmoko mickeyl (n=mickey@openmoko/coreteam/mickey) |
| 20:52.28 | *** join/#openmoko ^wd^ (n=wd@82.119.147.190) |
| 20:54.49 | *** join/#openmoko los__ (n=los@194.29.137.44) |
| 20:58.00 | edje | kirsch: afaik you have to have 2 partitions on the card, the first one a fat partition where the kernel is placed and a second one, ext where the rootfs is placed |
| 20:58.05 | jc | Sargun who wants to sue openmoko and why? |
| 20:58.13 | edje | ext2* |
| 20:58.26 | Sargun | jc, Guilt, and ask him |
| 20:58.41 | jc | Guilt: you want to sue openmoko? why? ;P |
| 20:58.47 | Guilt | Sargun: do you work for Openmoko? |
| 20:58.59 | Sargun | Guilt, No, I work for their competitor. |
| 20:59.00 | jc | c'mon :) |
| 20:59.05 | Sargun | or a competitor. |
| 20:59.20 | jc | orly, theres someone else making a opensource phone ? |
| 20:59.37 | Guilt | did u read Andy's email? or Arne Akka's email? |
| 20:59.39 | kirsch | edje: yes, so i did |
| 20:59.50 | jc | nope, pls tell :) |
| 20:59.54 | Sargun | jc, No, we make mobile devices though |
| 21:00.06 | *** join/#openmoko tomer (n=tomer@89-139-255-144.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 21:00.10 | edje | kirsch: is it an sdhc card or a normal sd card ? |
| 21:00.13 | jc | Sargun: then you're not a competitor really :) |
| 21:00.25 | kirsch | edje: its a sd card |
| 21:00.26 | Sargun | jc, yeah... |
| 21:00.36 | Guilt | Well. let's see what Wolfgang Spraul has to say. |
| 21:01.15 | dent | Guilt: could U paste a link so we can read and publicly loathe you? |
| 21:01.26 | jc | yeah, +1 :) |
| 21:01.27 | edje | kirsch: well, for the sdhc card you can reduce the clockrate of the card, you could try and do that for your card too. i had to do it for my sdhc card |
| 21:01.38 | Guilt | dent: See the community archives |
| 21:01.45 | dent | ok, thx |
| 21:01.52 | Guilt | cool. |
| 21:01.54 | kirsch | edje: thank you!, i will try it |
| 21:02.07 | edje | kirsch: good luck ! |
| 21:02.13 | Guilt | I'm not afraid of the world loathing me. I do what I believe is right. |
| 21:02.33 | dent | Guilt: good for you |
| 21:02.35 | Guilt | And where I come from, I respect honesty. |
| 21:02.39 | Guilt | cool. |
| 21:02.42 | *** join/#openmoko david_ (n=david@h24-207-51-243.dlt.dccnet.com) |
| 21:02.54 | jc | dent: are you going to dig there ? |
| 21:04.08 | *** join/#openmoko emsyr (n=emsyr@ppp079166081193.dsl.hol.gr) |
| 21:04.21 | *** part/#openmoko emsyr (n=emsyr@ppp079166081193.dsl.hol.gr) |
| 21:04.29 | *** join/#openmoko emsyr (n=emsyr@ppp079166081193.dsl.hol.gr) |
| 21:06.34 | Guilt | okay. peck away at my dead body when I'm not around. |
| 21:07.03 | dent | pitty |
| 21:07.09 | dent | s/tt/t |
| 21:07.19 | jc | Guilt: could you just please clarify what is this all about ? |
| 21:07.25 | dent | too late |
| 21:07.33 | Sargun | haha |
| 21:07.33 | jc | aah |
| 21:07.36 | Sargun | HAHA |
| 21:07.52 | dent | so no lynching this time :-( |
| 21:09.59 | jc | [News] OpenMoko Review, 'Defective-by-designMoko' Attracts Class-action Lawsuit |
| 21:10.42 | Wonka | ? |
| 21:10.52 | sebbs | willy! |
| 21:11.34 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host86-155-246-49.range86-155.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:11.47 | jc | Defective-by-designMoko ? sounds a lot like the anti drm campaign |
| 21:12.12 | hozer | will someone please post a web link |
| 21:12.17 | hozer | I want to know what the hell this is about |
| 21:12.19 | jc | I can't find any more |
| 21:12.47 | dent | Moko-By-Defective-Design? :-P |
| 21:13.08 | mwester | Can't say I'm surprised, except that it took so long. |
| 21:13.20 | dent | ( j/k, before I get kickbanned for life :) |
| 21:13.44 | jc | dent ? huh ? |
| 21:13.58 | *** join/#openmoko Stroller (n=Stroller@213-152-39-89.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) |
| 21:14.26 | hozer | okay guys |
| 21:14.42 | hozer | again , wtf is going on, and where is there a web link :P |
| 21:15.01 | dent | I'm looking @ dec community archives and don't see any overly suspicious topic, sigh |
| 21:15.05 | Sargun | I just opened up a free runner, and it smells funny |
| 21:15.14 | dent | maybe just too much work win wince makes me dumb :)) |
| 21:15.15 | *** join/#openmoko ceupers_ (n=ceupers@193.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 21:15.20 | zash | Sargun: brand new plastic? |
| 21:16.38 | jc | hozer dunno yet, I'm trying to look it up... |
| 21:17.23 | sebbs | mine was built in taiwan i think, atlesat the gps chip |
| 21:19.25 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun` (n=ajbrun@host86-155-246-49.range86-155.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:20.59 | *** join/#openmoko GNUtoo-desktop (n=GNUtoo@host135-29-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:28.03 | slaxxin | i guess thats the first motherboard tee shirty i have ever seen |
| 21:34.18 | *** join/#openmoko guerby (n=guerby@82.61.75-86.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 21:44.09 | Sargun | Hm, my FR isn't working with any of my microSDHC cards (sandisk, Kingston, A-data) |
| 21:44.35 | mwester | check the pins for bended-ness. |
| 21:45.27 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host86-155-246-49.range86-155.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:48.47 | slaxxin | what would be the command to put the card back to factory specs |
| 21:49.12 | slaxxin | fdisk d 1 d 2 w |
| 21:49.30 | slaxxin | ? |
| 21:50.27 | *** join/#openmoko rcxdude (n=rcxdude@host81-152-24-222.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:53.30 | *** join/#openmoko nio_ (n=nio@5571ef58.dsl.concepts.nl) |
| 22:03.12 | *** join/#openmoko emsyr (n=emsyr@ppp079166081193.dsl.hol.gr) |
| 22:08.26 | Sargun | mwester, in the socket? Two of the pins are soldered together it seems, is that normal? |
| 22:08.45 | Sargun | Man, my other Freerunners were so much easier to setup than this one |
| 22:12.09 | mwester | Sargun: that would probably be the capacitor to fix the SD/GPS problem. |
| 22:12.20 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.196.129.1) |
| 22:12.26 | mwester | But if it shorted, then it would kill the SD card. |
| 22:12.36 | *** join/#openmoko chomwitt (n=chomwitt@ppp-94-65-204-198.home.otenet.gr) |
| 22:12.43 | mwester | er, not kill the card, I mean render the SD card unreadable in the phone. |
| 22:13.08 | Sargun | mwester, man, there is so much RF interference on these devices. |
| 22:13.25 | mwester | :D All electronics is that way anymore. |
| 22:13.41 | *** join/#openmoko mgregson (n=mgregson@76-10-128-253.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 22:13.46 | Sargun | I say we shield everything with a few inches of lead. |
| 22:13.57 | Sargun | then I could use my FR as a weapon as well. |
| 22:13.58 | mwester | even that wouldn't do it. |
| 22:14.04 | Sargun | why not? |
| 22:14.28 | mwester | If there's a wire out, there will be some amount of RF on that wire. |
| 22:14.42 | Sargun | put lead around the wire... |
| 22:15.03 | Sargun | all wiring on the platform should be shielded. |
| 22:15.05 | mwester | doesn't change the fact that the signal travels on the wire. This is the heart of the GSM buzz problem. |
| 22:15.29 | *** join/#openmoko MHazem (n=Satan@41.196.131.22) |
| 22:15.40 | mwester | The GSM signal is getting from the GSM device inside the metal-shielded audio componentry. |
| 22:15.46 | Sargun | ah |
| 22:16.05 | Sargun | so wait, where does the GSM buzz issue hit the wire? |
| 22:16.08 | Sargun | after the CPU? |
| 22:16.21 | Sargun | well, after the wolfson, or before the wolfson? |
| 22:16.36 | mwester | You'd have to ask docscrutinizer that question, I don't know. |
| 22:16.49 | Sargun | Hm. |
| 22:17.17 | *** join/#openmoko azaghal_ (n=azaghal@91.148.113.216) |
| 22:17.42 | quatrox | wasn't there some theory about dipole antenna where the whole circuit board was one part of the dipole? |
| 22:18.26 | Sargun | wow, the freerunner is just one giant antenna |
| 22:18.39 | SpeedEvil | EMI is one horribly complex topic |
| 22:19.08 | quatrox | I don't know anything about RF. That is why I still can be a happy person |
| 22:19.10 | quatrox | lol |
| 22:19.13 | Sargun | haha |
| 22:19.27 | mwester | RF engineers are underappreciated. |
| 22:19.39 | Sargun | transmit everything via optical. |
| 22:19.46 | viq | EMP and everyone's (un)happy ;) |
| 22:19.50 | Sargun | shield everything with lead, just put power to it |
| 22:20.08 | Sargun | just make sure your power cables are shielded. |
| 22:20.16 | mwester | wears a tin-foil hat,doesthat count? |
| 22:20.45 | mwester | It surely keeps the Openmoko mind-control rays at bay. |
| 22:23.16 | orzo | hello |
| 22:23.45 | orzo | SpeedEvil: the procedure you suggested failed |
| 22:24.37 | orzo | SpeedEvil: it turned itself on way sooner than four hours and then eratically rebooted and then shut off and now I cannot turn it on again and when i followed the procedure again, nothing happend in 2 hours |
| 22:25.02 | orzo | I dont know if the battery is charged or not |
| 22:26.28 | Sargun | orzo, what did you break? |
| 22:26.41 | orzo | neo1973 gta01bv4 |
| 22:27.07 | orzo | i had a messy system with some parts moved to SD in order to have space |
| 22:27.24 | orzo | i was running OM2007.2 |
| 22:27.27 | Sargun | yes... |
| 22:27.37 | Sargun | well, your first problem is that you need to update |
| 22:27.57 | orzo | that's my first problem? I can't update without turning it on and i cant turn it on |
| 22:28.20 | Sargun | orzo, you can't boot up? |
| 22:28.32 | orzo | it wont give any indication that it is powering on |
| 22:28.33 | *** join/#openmoko drscream (n=drscream@alcatraz.v.doc.fruky.net) |
| 22:28.37 | Sargun | orzo, what happens when you boot? |
| 22:28.48 | orzo | it apprently booted normally when it did |
| 22:28.57 | Sargun | huh |
| 22:28.58 | orzo | but then erratically rebooted but failed the second time |
| 22:28.58 | Sargun | orzo, is the battery charged? |
| 22:29.13 | orzo | i dont know if the battery is charged |
| 22:29.19 | *** join/#openmoko nkinkade (n=nkinkade@72-28-215-022-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net) |
| 22:29.25 | orzo | i follwed the procedure as if the battery was drained |
| 22:29.41 | orzo | but i was supposed to leave it alone for four hours |
| 22:29.54 | quatrox | orzo: I do not think that helps |
| 22:29.54 | orzo | but it turned itself on after maybe 20 minutes |
| 22:30.10 | orzo | and it booted all the way |
| 22:30.35 | orzo | and i told it the command to draw full current (even though that wasnt necessary, it was plugged into a linux computer) |
| 22:30.49 | orzo | then i walked away and when i came back it was in a boot screen |
| 22:31.25 | orzo | but it never got far enough to make the start up noise this time |
| 22:31.30 | orzo | it just died |
| 22:31.43 | nkinkade | Can anyone tell me if I should be using any particular SHR image, or do I just grab the one with the most recent date and go from there? |
| 22:31.49 | quatrox | orzo: you have an old kernel |
| 22:31.53 | orzo | then i pulled the battery for 5 minutes, and plugged it in again, expecting it'd turn itself on |
| 22:32.17 | orzo | quatrox: well what can i do? |
| 22:32.36 | quatrox | maybe you must pull out the charger cable when it boots and plug it back in |
| 22:32.54 | orzo | i cannot |
| 22:33.02 | orzo | its a gta01 and never came with a charger cable |
| 22:33.11 | orzo | and i cant get it to boot again |
| 22:33.13 | quatrox | usb cable |
| 22:33.20 | orzo | oh |
| 22:33.31 | orzo | well okay, but i dont know how to get it to boot |
| 22:33.53 | orzo | i'd like to put it in uboot for flashing |
| 22:34.09 | quatrox | follow the same steps as you did before for cases of drained battery? |
| 22:34.18 | quatrox | or does that not work anymore? |
| 22:34.20 | orzo | well i did that, and it didnt do the same thing |
| 22:34.31 | quatrox | try again |
| 22:34.35 | quatrox | but this time |
| 22:34.48 | orzo | instead of turning itself on in 20 minutes, it is still dead after 2 hours |
| 22:34.58 | orzo | and then i tried powering it on myself |
| 22:35.00 | orzo | and it wouldnt |
| 22:35.10 | quatrox | 2 hours is not enough |
| 22:35.18 | orzo | i know, but why should the battery be dead? |
| 22:35.22 | orzo | a bad kernel killed the battery? |
| 22:35.27 | quatrox | well |
| 22:35.32 | orzo | it was fully booted not long ago and i never took it off usb |
| 22:35.33 | quatrox | there was a kernel bug |
| 22:35.41 | quatrox | not sure when it got introduced |
| 22:36.09 | quatrox | but, the kernel did not detect the charger when it was plugged in during boot |
| 22:36.33 | orzo | the gui had an indicator that said it was charging |
| 22:37.00 | quatrox | ohh |
| 22:37.13 | orzo | rather than a battery with green fill level |
| 22:37.58 | orzo | does that mean this isnt a case of that kernel bug? |
| 22:38.06 | orzo | or was the gui just lying |
| 22:38.22 | quatrox | I don't think you are affected by the bug |
| 22:38.29 | quatrox | but I cannot be sure |
| 22:38.36 | quatrox | how old is your kernel? |
| 22:38.45 | orzo | i dont know |
| 22:38.57 | quatrox | well |
| 22:39.30 | quatrox | if you are affected by the bug, you need to unplug the usb cable after the system is fully booted |
| 22:39.36 | quatrox | then plug it back in |
| 22:39.51 | quatrox | but it sounds like you are not affected |
| 22:40.40 | orzo | it looks like it was probably a 2.6.24 kernel |
| 22:40.49 | orzo | based on files i see around on my computer |
| 22:41.09 | orzo | im not sure tho |
| 22:41.22 | orzo | i think i flashed it from another computer i dont have anymore |
| 22:41.34 | quatrox | ohh |
| 22:41.35 | quatrox | ok |
| 22:41.47 | quatrox | btw, do you know anyone with compatible batteries? |
| 22:41.57 | orzo | no |
| 22:42.07 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@87.13.132.240) |
| 22:43.29 | quatrox | it is annoying that the phone cannot boot from the charger without any batteries |
| 22:43.58 | orzo | yes |
| 22:44.03 | orzo | im very annoyed |
| 22:44.58 | quatrox | try to see if there are anyone near you who can charge your battery |
| 22:45.18 | quatrox | or buy a Li-Ion battery charger |
| 22:46.08 | quatrox | hmmm |
| 22:47.33 | quatrox | or buy a compatible battery |
| 22:48.13 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84-75-29-96.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:48.19 | SpeedEvil | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15264 |
| 22:49.33 | orzo | can i get one at radioshack? |
| 22:49.45 | quatrox | that would be expensive |
| 22:49.48 | SpeedEvil | (charger) (no, I have no idea if it'll explode the battery) |
| 22:50.04 | lindi- | orzo: what's the problem? |
| 22:50.35 | *** join/#openmoko nigel_c (n=nigel_c@mail.crca.org.au) |
| 22:50.36 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201009088136.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 22:51.41 | quatrox | lindi-: orzo drained his neo1973 battery and cannot power on the phone |
| 22:52.55 | orzo | oh shit |
| 22:52.56 | orzo | its on |
| 22:52.57 | orzo | it booted |
| 22:52.58 | orzo | what now? |
| 22:53.02 | orzo | before it stops again |
| 22:53.14 | pjz | is it charging? |
| 22:53.19 | SpeedEvil | Quick - pick it up and slam it against the table! |
| 22:53.27 | SpeedEvil | (kidding) |
| 22:53.29 | orzo | the battery indicator said it was |
| 22:53.48 | orzo | remember what quatrox said about a kernel bug, i just pulled the cord and plugged it back |
| 22:54.07 | quatrox | I hope that helps |
| 22:54.09 | quatrox | also |
| 22:54.14 | orzo | when i pulled the cord, the battery level indicator was all the way down in a sliver of red |
| 22:54.15 | quatrox | one more tips |
| 22:54.32 | orzo | i mean, it became like that after i pulled the cord |
| 22:54.41 | orzo | and is now charging again |
| 22:54.45 | quatrox | check if it is charging every half hour or so |
| 22:54.53 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 22:54.54 | quatrox | until you got enough power |
| 22:55.09 | orzo | i shoudl power down things |
| 22:55.36 | quatrox | wifi, gsm, gps, bt |
| 22:55.37 | quatrox | yes |
| 22:55.44 | orzo | okay, well i dont remember how |
| 22:55.45 | orzo | heh |
| 22:56.02 | quatrox | single push at the power btn? |
| 22:56.24 | orzo | that made a click noise |
| 22:56.26 | orzo | and nothing else |
| 22:56.34 | quatrox | ohh |
| 22:56.46 | quatrox | what about the aux? |
| 22:56.52 | quatrox | hmm |
| 22:56.58 | quatrox | forget that |
| 22:57.19 | quatrox | echo "0" >/...... |
| 22:57.36 | quatrox | that should always work |
| 22:58.32 | orzo | well |
| 22:58.37 | orzo | i need to use usb networking |
| 22:58.58 | orzo | i used to have scripts for that |
| 22:59.00 | orzo | but i cant find them |
| 23:01.07 | quatrox | http://om.quatrox.org/om |
| 23:01.13 | quatrox | I have a script there |
| 23:01.24 | quatrox | that you can modify |
| 23:01.36 | quatrox | or did you mean on the phone? |
| 23:02.04 | orzo | well i found my script |
| 23:02.12 | orzo | and i'm attached, but i dont know its ip address |
| 23:02.28 | orzo | 192.168.0.201 is not responding (the computer is 192.168.0.200) |
| 23:02.38 | quatrox | ohh |
| 23:03.00 | quatrox | do you have any other usb devices attached? |
| 23:03.10 | orzo | i dont think so |
| 23:03.18 | orzo | nothing externally in teh actual ports |
| 23:03.25 | quatrox | ok |
| 23:03.27 | *** join/#openmoko almien (n=almien@87-194-198-122.bethere.co.uk) |
| 23:03.28 | quatrox | hmm |
| 23:03.48 | orzo | okay im in |
| 23:03.50 | orzo | it was 202 |
| 23:04.02 | quatrox | ahh |
| 23:04.03 | orzo | what command line for shtting things off now? |
| 23:04.36 | orzo | i think i'll make a script for shutting nearly everything off |
| 23:05.27 | *** join/#openmoko rooly (i=rooly@host-125-232.lalacap.clients.pavlovmedia.com) |
| 23:05.47 | orzo | i just ran /etc/init.d/gsm stop |
| 23:06.01 | orzo | and .../gllin stop |
| 23:06.08 | orzo | and .../bluetooth stop |
| 23:06.17 | rooly | woohoo! |
| 23:06.22 | orzo | i dont 100% trust the scripts tho |
| 23:06.29 | rooly | i just sold 400$'s 'worth' of books for 50$'s |
| 23:06.36 | orzo | how can i query the sys to verify these things arent drawing power |
| 23:06.55 | orzo | why does that make you happy, rooly? |
| 23:06.57 | rooly | snoop around under /sys |
| 23:07.18 | quatrox | cat /sys/bus/platform/devices/gta01-pm-gsm.0/power_on |
| 23:07.20 | rooly | cause, orzo, while i may have lost plenty of money on the deal, i now have 50$'s worth of cash to spend |
| 23:07.28 | rooly | not to mention, i'm currently broke |
| 23:08.40 | balrog | knows a good way to shut nearly everything down |
| 23:08.47 | SpeedEvil | crazy-glues rooly, to fix him. |
| 23:09.02 | quatrox | orzo: if that returns 0, it is off |
| 23:09.19 | orzo | that's not present |
| 23:09.29 | orzo | i do have 'power' and 'pwron' in that dir |
| 23:09.47 | orzo | catting pwron gave 0 |
| 23:10.00 | *** join/#openmoko erwin__ (n=erwin@84-75-29-96.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 23:10.50 | orzo | oh |
| 23:11.05 | orzo | no, pwron in the gps dirrectory gave 0 |
| 23:11.20 | orzo | /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0008/neo1973-pm-gps.0# cat pwron |
| 23:11.23 | orzo | 0 |
| 23:11.48 | rooly | then, sir, i do believe it is off |
| 23:12.06 | orzo | and bt looks to be off |
| 23:12.08 | rooly | but wifi is a whole different beast |
| 23:12.15 | orzo | but that gsm dir isnt on my sys |
| 23:12.33 | quatrox | ohh |
| 23:12.45 | quatrox | the paths changed several times |
| 23:13.29 | orzo | /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-gsm.0/power_on |
| 23:13.35 | orzo | gives zero |
| 23:13.38 | orzo | i guess its all turned off |
| 23:13.43 | quatrox | :) |
| 23:13.50 | *** join/#openmoko qhartman (n=qhartman@74.93.188.113) |
| 23:14.29 | quatrox | cd /sys/devices/platform; find |grep -e wifi -e wlan |
| 23:14.38 | quatrox | not sure what the name is |
| 23:14.48 | orzo | for what? |
| 23:14.55 | orzo | looking for 802.11g wifi? |
| 23:15.06 | orzo | the gta01 doesnt have it |
| 23:15.12 | quatrox | ahh |
| 23:15.17 | quatrox | forgot |
| 23:15.24 | quatrox | but remember now |
| 23:15.33 | quatrox | that is why I waited for GTA02 |
| 23:15.35 | quatrox | lol |
| 23:15.50 | quatrox | forgets so fast |
| 23:15.54 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@r125-63-180-233.cpe.unwired.net.au) |
| 23:16.24 | orzo | how long will it take to charge |
| 23:16.30 | orzo | is there any way to see the battery charge level? |
| 23:16.36 | orzo | without unplugging |
| 23:16.57 | rooly | well, from terminal |
| 23:16.59 | rooly | just call apm |
| 23:17.49 | orzo | well |
| 23:17.52 | orzo | ok |
| 23:17.56 | orzo | it says charging |
| 23:17.59 | zash | a |
| 23:18.01 | orzo | but apm doesnt say how much charged |
| 23:18.09 | rooly | what battery are you using? |
| 23:18.19 | orzo | the one that came with it |
| 23:18.21 | rooly | hmm |
| 23:18.51 | orzo | uname shows kernel to be 2.6.24 |
| 23:19.07 | rooly | no, my name is rooly |
| 23:19.47 | orzo | can i use gps without a sim? |
| 23:19.56 | rooly | sure can |
| 23:19.57 | azaghal | Yep |
| 23:20.16 | orzo | well i've never seen it work without being connected to a wireless network |
| 23:20.36 | rooly | it does need to download map tiles, sir |
| 23:20.40 | orzo | no |
| 23:20.41 | rooly | but the gps itself works plenty fine |
| 23:20.49 | orzo | eh |
| 23:21.12 | orzo | i dont download map tiles to the phone unless im pluged to a computer and i save them in the cache |
| 23:21.21 | rooly | using tango? |
| 23:21.24 | orzo | ya |
| 23:21.27 | rooly | where's your cache at |
| 23:21.49 | orzo | its at /media/card/maps |
| 23:22.10 | orzo | but anyway, nevermind maps |
| 23:22.20 | orzo | gps never worked without also gsm working |
| 23:22.31 | rooly | 's odd |
| 23:22.48 | *** join/#openmoko nio_ (n=nio@5571ef58.dsl.concepts.nl) |
| 23:22.50 | orzo | the gps hardware changed for freerunner |
| 23:23.13 | rooly | right, bigger, better, bolder, buggier |
| 23:23.26 | orzo | buggier is hard to beleive |
| 23:23.30 | Wonka | orzo: nak. GPS worked fine here without GSM even being on |
| 23:23.43 | orzo | Wonka: on the gta01 ? |
| 23:23.50 | Wonka | orzo: on the gta02 |
| 23:24.02 | orzo | well its a different story |
| 23:24.04 | Wonka | orzo: no sim, gsm off... maps loaded at home... |
| 23:24.07 | orzo | different hardware, different driver |
| 23:24.19 | Wonka | gllin is evil? |
| 23:24.23 | rooly | 's quite possible there is a real issue |
| 23:24.31 | *** join/#openmoko cjb (n=cjb@pullcord.laptop.org) |
| 23:24.33 | vaiursch | hi everybody, i have here my freerunner with the om-asu, and when i plug-in the usb-cable to my linux-notebook nothing happens and dmesg says: http://rafb.net/p/SD4eMZ68.html, does someone see the problem? (and might have a solution?) |
| 23:25.01 | rooly | it says 404 nout found? |
| 23:25.17 | rooly | keep your commas apart man |
| 23:26.28 | ezekiel-v3 | vaiursch: I think "unable to enumerate USB device" is misleading you. |
| 23:29.43 | vaiursch | ezekiel-v3: well, i think, that this means the neo isn't responding correctly to early usb-init commands as it doesn't accept any device-number |
| 23:31.18 | rooly | does the led in the aux button turn red? |
| 23:31.52 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 23:32.58 | vaiursch | hmm, i just removed the battery and now everything works fine |
| 23:33.15 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 23:33.22 | *** part/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 23:33.40 | vaiursch | i think there was some cache wich held an old device-id |
| 23:40.23 | *** part/#openmoko gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) |
| 23:40.35 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201009088136.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 23:42.56 | orzo | my LG phone has a 3.7volt battery |
| 23:43.02 | orzo | with 3 terminals like the neo |
| 23:43.19 | orzo | they are not over on one side though |
| 23:43.19 | orzo | they are centered on teh edge |
| 23:45.05 | slaxxin | wheres dave |
| 23:45.10 | rooly | dave? |
| 23:45.14 | rooly | daves not here |
| 23:46.05 | slaxxin | orzo turn on the web cam we wanna watch |
| 23:46.21 | slaxxin | just kiddin |
| 23:46.29 | *** join/#openmoko brundlefliege (n=musha68k@h081217092231.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) |
| 23:46.42 | orzo | heh |
| 23:47.05 | slaxxin | still dead ehhh? |
| 23:47.11 | orzo | talkign to me? |
| 23:47.15 | slaxxin | ya |
| 23:47.27 | slaxxin | well |
| 23:47.30 | orzo | no apparently my phone works now |
| 23:47.35 | slaxxin | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:47.39 | slaxxin | ok |
| 23:47.41 | slaxxin | sorry |
| 23:47.58 | orzo | i just put a sim in it that i couldnt get working before |
| 23:48.11 | orzo | but now that bug 666 is resolved, maybe i can flash a fix |
| 23:50.26 | *** part/#openmoko emsyr (n=emsyr@ppp079166081193.dsl.hol.gr) |
| 23:51.31 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 23:51.52 | *** part/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 23:52.57 | *** join/#openmoko emonkey (n=emonkey@ubuntu/member/emonkey) |
| 23:53.26 | sicu | fix fix fix =] |
| 23:53.48 | slaxxin | yup i been killing viruses |
| 23:54.10 | rooly | you can't really kill something thats not technically alive |
| 23:54.14 | rooly | its like killing a rock |
| 23:54.23 | slaxxin | deleteing |
| 23:54.27 | rooly | there |
| 23:54.30 | rooly | we are all agreed |
| 23:54.39 | slaxxin | im with ya |
| 23:54.40 | rooly | (btw, the same usage applies in biology) |
| 23:55.06 | slaxxin | rooly |
| 23:55.16 | rooly | cat |
| 23:55.20 | slaxxin | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:55.39 | rooly | only if it involves computer programs |
| 23:55.55 | rooly | not that interested in new things concerning people, if ya know what i mean |
| 23:56.14 | slaxxin | how bout converting sewage an non-recyclables into deisel fuel |
| 23:56.38 | rooly | doesn't save me a pittance |
| 23:57.25 | slaxxin | at carthage mo. they use turkey plant waste to do it |
| 23:57.38 | *** join/#openmoko mowah (n=mower@h19n1fls32o1017.telia.com) |
| 23:58.05 | slaxxin | an say trash an sewage could be used |
| 23:58.20 | slaxxin | con-agra turkey plant |
| 23:58.39 | rooly | how much you wanna bet its actually quite a bit more toxic than just burning good ol' fashoined fossil fuels |
| 23:58.46 | slaxxin | not just fat but everything |
| 23:59.23 | slaxxin | well the molecules are seperated |
| 23:59.57 | slaxxin | anything but atomic waste |
