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| 01:02.16 | dilinger | is there a list of ECOs between gta01bv4 red pcb and green pcb? |
| 01:02.26 | dilinger | i see there's this one: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/One_transistor_too_many |
| 01:02.32 | dilinger | anything else? |
| 01:11.33 | shenki | red -> green |
| 01:11.38 | *** part/#openmoko jouston (n=jouston@59-105-136-199.adsl.static.seed.net.tw) |
| 01:11.39 | mwester | dilinger: I imagine that's proprietary information for FIC/Openmoko (the company). They have told us only the one transistor changed, and there's no reason to doubt that, but I've not seen any ECO's published |
| 01:12.26 | dilinger | shenki: heh, thanks ;p |
| 01:12.42 | dilinger | mwester: sure,but if they're looking for developers, it seems rather silly to keep quiet about that sort of thing |
| 01:13.52 | mwester | Changes that were material to developers, yes they have been very forthcoming about those. |
| 01:14.07 | dilinger | that's what i'm asking about |
| 01:14.29 | mwester | Ah, ok. Then the only one is the transistor, and even that can be completly ignored by developers. |
| 01:14.42 | dilinger | ok, cool |
| 01:15.03 | dilinger | shenki: i was going to stick richard on the transister ECO. handy guy to have around ;) |
| 01:15.26 | shenki | dilinger: good one. keep the man busy, he's always slacking off |
| 01:15.50 | shenki | dilinger: are these the PCBs that were floating around between richard and chris' desks? |
| 01:15.55 | dilinger | yeah |
| 01:16.04 | shenki | cool. they finally get some love |
| 01:16.25 | dilinger | i'm ignoring the gta01bv3 pcb (or whatever it was) |
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| 01:17.25 | dilinger | but i'm considering buying gta02 when it's released (and writing it off as a business expense), so i might as well ensure this gta01bv4 gets some love |
| 01:18.35 | dilinger | i don't suppose it's possible to pre-order those, is it? |
| 01:18.56 | shenki | i've been hanging out for the gta02. my old nokia is slowly failing; i hope they don't get delayed further |
| 01:19.17 | mwester | Nope, no pre-order mechanism. |
| 01:19.57 | mwester | shenki: as long as you're aware of the current software state, and the GTA02's frequency limitation... |
| 01:20.25 | shenki | mwester: teh software state i'm well aware of. what's the freq limit? |
| 01:21.04 | mwester | The GTA01 and the current GTA02 are European tri-band -- lack the 850MHz band in use in North America (and a few other places). |
| 01:21.25 | shenki | mwester: ah, no worries. im in australia |
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| 01:23.31 | dilinger | hm |
| 01:23.33 | dilinger | i wasn't aware of that |
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| 01:24.04 | shenki | mwester: that's an artifical limit placed on the hardware, right? |
| 01:24.17 | mwester | Alas, no. |
| 01:24.47 | mwester | There are only three tuned circuits on the GTA01 and GTA02; and presently they are for 1900, 1800, and 900 MHz. |
| 01:25.16 | dilinger | mwester: what's the reason for not supporting 850MHz? |
| 01:25.18 | shenki | ok. i must have miss-read |
| 01:25.25 | mwester | dilinger: "oops" |
| 01:25.28 | mwester | :( |
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| 01:25.47 | shenki | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/December_09%2C_2007_Community_Update |
| 01:26.06 | dilinger | mwester: "oops" for bth GTA01 and GTA02? |
| 01:26.10 | dilinger | ah, neat |
| 01:26.12 | shenki | mentions modifying a phone to talk on 850mhz. what kind of changes? |
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| 01:27.10 | mwester | It's the sort of mistake that just about makes one fall over in astonishment that it could even happen. And yes, the GTA02 as well, but there is some experimentation underway to see if it is reasonable to replace the 900MHz ciruit with and 850MHz circuit, and thus create a variant that will work in NA |
| 01:27.53 | shenki | im confused. my nokia doesn't talk 850mhz, and i used it in the US |
| 01:28.00 | shenki | is it only some regions that have 850? |
| 01:28.28 | mwester | Larger population centers use 1900; 850MHz is primarily used in the suburban and rural areas. |
| 01:28.48 | mwester | (same for 1800/900 MHz in Europe) |
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| 01:29.54 | shenki | i see. thanks. |
| 01:30.24 | dilinger | shenki: you were primarily in boston; i bet out in the sticks, it wouldn't have worked |
| 01:30.36 | dilinger | well, and cali |
| 01:31.22 | shenki | i managed fine in santa clara, mountain view, and then in LA - claremont |
| 01:31.24 | mwester | Expressways are also often covered by 1900MHz small cells farther out of the population centers in order to handle the call density. |
| 01:31.40 | shenki | but yeah, i was never out in the sticks |
| 01:31.46 | mwester | So once you leave the expressway, you end up on an 850MHz cell |
| 01:33.18 | mwester | The reason for the dual freqs in the first place is that the lower frequency gives a larger cell, reducing the number of towers. The higher frequency uses smaller antennas, and smaller cells, so you can shape the cell more easily and you can have more cells (and thus handle more calls) in a given area. Very neat system. |
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| 02:39.08 | jeremym | from the wiki app developement faq, can someone fill this question in for me. " How can I add an application written with autotools to the openmoko tree?" |
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| 02:45.37 | jonaslund | question, what works and what doesn't ? (the phase1 sw testing page gives a strange view, stuff working then breaking ?) |
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| 03:29.31 | KrisAbsinthe | jonaslind: yeah thats how it works, one version some things will work then the next they will not. Its all software testing at this point, If you want a fully functional phone get Qtopia for now, OM latest version is good but the Kernel modules are broken; for me at least, that means no audio no BT no GPS no GSM blah blah. The short answer is try a version and decide what you like the best, Ive never had SMS working without cu'i |
| 03:29.31 | KrisAbsinthe | ng the modem and issuing commands manually, QTopia works decent for me, when im NOT in a GSM 850 area |
| 03:31.52 | KrisAbsinthe | Im working on a Distro based on the minimalistic values of Linux, and a true desktop enviroment. ill have it ready one day ... |
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| 03:34.20 | raster | one day... |
| 03:34.23 | raster | :) |
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| 03:36.19 | KrisAbsinthe | lol the desktop is working, just getting rid of DBUS Neod GPSD and many many other things. |
| 03:37.13 | KrisAbsinthe | need to build a new dialer |
| 03:37.43 | KrisAbsinthe | maybe ill call ot OpenSlacko |
| 03:38.10 | raster | no dbus? |
| 03:38.13 | raster | life will be tough |
| 03:38.14 | raster | :) |
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| 03:38.44 | KrisAbsinthe | I want to do more with the programs accessing the modem and issuing commands manually |
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| 03:51.15 | mwester | Greetings Sir raster -- are you in tw or australia? |
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| 03:55.34 | raster | mwester: right now .tw |
| 03:56.05 | raster | i'll be back in .au satruday night |
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| 04:03.25 | KrisAbsinthe | I was looking up OSes for the Neo and sun has something called JavaFX it looks nice, too bad its java based lol |
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| 04:05.00 | raster | ewwww |
| 04:05.22 | anrp | why the hate? |
| 04:06.11 | KrisAbsinthe | A phone is very personal and should be very secure, java just is not. |
| 04:06.30 | anrp | i'm not qualified to comment on that but i'd be surprised ... |
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| 04:10.08 | raster | anrp: many reasons |
| 04:10.39 | raster | anrp: i have never met a programming environment that eats more memory, provides less control and eats up more cpu resources, than java |
| 04:10.43 | raster | i ahve done java |
| 04:10.46 | raster | and i swore off it |
| 04:10.51 | raster | been ther. done that |
| 04:10.56 | raster | ran screaming. |
| 04:11.05 | anrp | lua D: |
| 04:11.21 | raster | lua is a different kettle of fish |
| 04:11.39 | raster | i put java into the c/c++/c#.net/assembly camp |
| 04:11.43 | raster | it requires compiling |
| 04:11.57 | raster | and why lua when i can do it perfectly well in c |
| 04:11.58 | raster | :) |
| 04:12.09 | raster | lua i would use and glue and extensibility scripting only |
| 04:12.09 | anrp | the eternal question |
| 04:12.14 | raster | maybe as a replacment for /bin/sh |
| 04:12.37 | raster | but i wont' touch java with a barge pole |
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| 05:38.05 | R_ | Regarding the 850 thing in NA, there is only one provider in Canada who bought the other GSM provider a while ago, forming a monopoly. The bought provider has more customers (and had given better service) and only operations on the older 1900 AFAIK from anywhere I've connected with it. |
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| 06:36.30 | readon | when would populate_packages_prepend() actually take effect? |
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| 06:52.33 | blindcoder | moin |
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| 19:15.02 | *** topic/#openmoko is The OpenMoko Project - http://openmoko.org - Neo1973 GTA01 on sale at https://direct.openmoko.com || Do not ask about GTA02 (Maybe March as of last update - yes, that's with WiFi, and no, there's no cam). Latest official update is at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates |
| 19:15.31 | goxboxlive | Is there a way to edit u-boot so it doesnt shutdown after 30 sec? |
| 19:15.44 | mwester | I guess the question is is that the code that you need in the kernel? |
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| 19:16.23 | magellan | yes that is what I will need. |
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| 19:17.43 | magellan | I am tryint to control a USB Serial device. I may have to edit the kernel for that too but right now I just want to get the device to show up in lsusb |
| 19:18.51 | SpeedEvil | It won't. |
| 19:19.05 | SpeedEvil | Until you turn the port into a host port, it is _not_ a host port. |
| 19:19.21 | SpeedEvil | you cannot connect usb devices to it. Only USB hosts. |
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| 19:19.57 | Marcel_M | magellan: you can try http://celtune.morb-design.com/uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r10-usb-host-neo1973.bin |
| 19:20.21 | Marcel_M | its patched but not tested |
| 19:21.01 | mwester | NOTE: package linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r10.1: task do_compile: started |
| 19:21.02 | SpeedEvil | Well - you can connect them, but the device is incapable of recognising them. |
| 19:21.25 | mwester | Marcel_M: Thanks - my host seems to be compiling a bit slowly today. Too much other stuff building right now. |
| 19:21.40 | SpeedEvil | My mokomakefile fell over at3000 or so. |
| 19:21.48 | Marcel_M | mwester: np hope it helps :) |
| 19:21.50 | SpeedEvil | trying updating and continuing |
| 19:22.31 | magellan | Yes I understand that until the kernel supports USB Host that it won't work, |
| 19:23.06 | mwester | magellan: what chipset in the usb serial device? |
| 19:23.59 | magellan | I don't know the chipset but it uses the generic usb serial driver |
| 19:24.32 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 19:24.40 | mmontour | goxboxlive: setenv boot_menu_timeout <seconds> |
| 19:24.41 | magellan | when I plug it into fedora or ubuntu it shows up as /dev/ttyUSB0 (or ttyUSB1) |
| 19:25.11 | SpeedEvil | I suppose I could take the kernel source tree out of my om tree, trim it, and jam it into a tar. |
| 19:25.30 | SpeedEvil | Then it could simply be untarred on a microSD |
| 19:25.43 | SpeedEvil | and compiled locally |
| 19:26.31 | mwester | magellan: the generic module usually needs a specific chip driver as well. Can you plug it into your host and see what lsusb identifies it as? |
| 19:31.26 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@89-172-46-217.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
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| 19:35.26 | magellan | mwester:Bus 003 Device 007: ID 10c4:ea60 Cygnal Integrated Products, Inc. Bus 003 Device 006: ID 08bb:2901 Texas Instruments Japan Bus 003 Device 005: ID 0424:2502 Standard Microsystems Corp. |
| 19:35.41 | magellan | all three of those are associated with the device |
| 19:36.49 | mwester | CP2101 driver |
| 19:37.22 | magellan | ok? |
| 19:38.58 | mwester | The cp2101 driver is built with the kernel; it's not on the phone's rootfs image so you'll have to ipkg install it. |
| 19:39.15 | mwester | Along with the necessary other USB drivers: usbserial, etc. |
| 19:42.07 | magellan | so I have to use the kernel with the USB Host patch built in, then does the package for these already exist or will I have to create them? |
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| 19:46.41 | xpgs | just lost my jtag cable :( |
| 19:47.22 | NineX|Moko | xpgs: what country? |
| 19:47.37 | xpgs | India |
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| 19:51.07 | xpgs | NineX : Can i get one ? i checked local market but couldn't find it |
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| 19:58.32 | chris^ | e |
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| 20:13.10 | SpeedEvil | Is it normal to get thousands of ERROR: QA issue: libbattery.la failed sanity test (reference to workdir or installed) |
| 20:13.11 | SpeedEvil | 's? |
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| 20:29.10 | kinneh | CM: are your host down? |
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| 21:03.22 | goxboxlive | Anyone know where i can get the uboot that support booting with the power button? |
| 21:03.46 | SpeedEvil | booting witht he power button? |
| 21:03.49 | SpeedEvil | all of them do |
| 21:04.04 | SpeedEvil | you press the buttoin when its off |
| 21:04.06 | SpeedEvil | and it turns on |
| 21:05.30 | goxboxlive | SpeedEvil: :-) |
| 21:06.49 | goxboxlive | I have just flashed with a new u-boot i builded with OE, but to boot the neo i have to go in to uboot menu, it woldnt boot when just hitting the power button |
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| 21:07.04 | SpeedEvil | Odd |
| 21:07.32 | goxboxlive | SpeedEvil: really, pH5 knew it. |
| 21:08.14 | goxboxlive | SpeedEvil: it boots, but it hangs before it run the zImage |
| 21:09.06 | anrp | maybe the settings are fucked |
| 21:09.13 | pH5 | bug 887, I think |
| 21:09.43 | SpeedEvil | I'd suspect the environment is screwed |
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| 21:30.20 | xpgs | I lost my jtag cable where can i get it ? |
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| 22:10.38 | balrog-kun | LaF0rge: re the LCM driver submission, accoring to the specs there is a data out pin from the LCM chip |
| 22:11.14 | balrog-kun | so the inability to read from chip is actually machine specific |
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| 22:18.44 | TimRiker | I flashed november firmware. I see a browser now. :) I still can't dial anywhere on the phone. is there a gsm restart I need to do with this image? |
| 22:19.53 | TimRiker | used: openmoko-image-fic-gta01.jffs2 and uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r8-neo1973.bin |
| 22:20.00 | Psi_ | anyone know what the battery life is like for the latest builds? |
| 22:20.16 | TimRiker | battery life? we have that now? :) |
| 22:20.51 | Psi_ | late i used it it would run about 6 hours in my pocket |
| 22:20.57 | TimRiker | I do get the happy tones on startup, so I presume my kernel version and modules are in sync. |
| 22:22.38 | balrog-kun | the startup sound was not something i would call happy tones last time i checked :) |
| 22:23.03 | TimRiker | hehe. well, when I hear them, it makes me happy. :) |
| 22:24.14 | balrog-kun | ok :p |
| 22:24.20 | balrog-kun | humans differ very much in what makes them ahppy |
| 22:24.49 | TimRiker | well, it only makes me happy cause the alternative is not hearing them which means something is broken. |
| 22:25.23 | balrog-kun | true |
| 22:26.26 | ljp-n810 | I dont like start up sounds |
| 22:26.59 | TimRiker | hmm. my sim seems to have gone bad... |
| 22:27.45 | ljp-n810 | I find sim bracket is flacky |
| 22:28.51 | TimRiker | great.. now it won't boot. |
| 22:28.54 | balrog-kun | but it works once you know that it's flacky and remember about it everytime you switch SIMs :P |
| 22:33.44 | TimRiker | no joy. nothing I do now with get anything. no lights, no bootloader action, nothing. |
| 22:35.27 | ljp-n810 | Take the battery out |
| 22:36.24 | TimRiker | yep. tried swapping batteries, power cords, connecting to usb, etc. nothing. |
| 22:37.31 | TimRiker | wish there was an "I'm charging" led. |
| 22:38.34 | balrog-kun | and a "Then do charge" button in case the led's off |
| 22:38.45 | TimRiker | heh |
| 22:39.44 | TimRiker | acts like the battery is dead-dead. |
| 22:43.01 | TimRiker | well, remove all power and battery, connect charger, wait 30 minutes. |
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| 22:50.03 | Psi_ | hm.. i've seen 2007.11 a few times, is it just the way some people write 2007.2 or is it something new? |
| 22:50.51 | balrog-kun | Psi_: more things now work than before but otherwise it's just a snapshot of 2007.2 |
| 22:51.06 | Psi_ | ah, ok, th |
| 22:51.13 | Psi_ | *thanks |
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| 23:14.16 | wurp | Does anyone have a recommendation on a jffs2 download? |
| 23:14.48 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 23:14.50 | wurp | I just want the one that supports the most stuff, in particular calls from the dialer and whatever gps support is available |
| 23:14.57 | wurp | Oh, and hello everyone :-) |
| 23:17.28 | wurp | *knock* *knock* *knock* |
| 23:17.31 | wurp | Is this thing on? |
| 23:17.44 | abraxa_ | wurp: In general you are welcome to pick the latest build from http://buildhost.automated.it |
| 23:17.54 | TimRiker | what, if anything, uses the gps in the image? |
| 23:18.04 | abraxa_ | GPS support is always a separate download from http://3rdparty.download.openmoko.org |
| 23:18.11 | wurp | abraxa_: Thanks! |
| 23:18.17 | abraxa_ | TimRiker: agpsui2, for example |
| 23:18.17 | ljp-n810 | I cant get a sat fix with the neo gps |
| 23:18.28 | TimRiker | Address Not Found? |
| 23:18.54 | abraxa_ | http://3rdparty.downloads.openmoko.org/ my bad |
| 23:20.01 | TimRiker | thx. that worked. |
| 23:21.30 | wurp2 | So am I totally naive to think that I could use my GTA01v4 as my primary phone at this stage in the game? |
| 23:22.03 | Psi_ | the battery life is the killer |
| 23:22.41 | Psi_ | until all the power management code is finished it wont really be usable as your main phone |
| 23:23.11 | wurp2 | Well, I can tolerate charging it every day |
| 23:23.22 | Psi_ | how about every 6 hours |
| 23:23.28 | wurp2 | I spend 8 hours a day sitting in front of a PC, so no prob plugging it into the usb |
| 23:23.32 | wurp2 | O |
| 23:23.32 | wurp2 | ouch |
| 23:23.46 | Psi_ | it may be better than 6 hours now, ive not tried the latest builds |
| 23:23.58 | wurp2 | I read some stuff about the gsm not recovering from powerdown well, but I saw ppl talking about gsm wake on call working |
| 23:24.15 | wurp2 | so it sounded as if at least someone was putting the phone into a low power mode & seeing it recover |
| 23:25.06 | ljp-n810 | Qtopia images can. But it is flaky |
| 23:25.28 | wurp2 | ah, bummer |
| 23:25.42 | wurp2 | thanks for the info! |
| 23:25.59 | ljp-n810 | Still very usable |
| 23:26.17 | ljp-n810 | Fine. Be that way |
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