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| 00:02.38 | borg_ | tuukkah: this list really seems to be outdated |
| 00:02.40 | borg_ | mh |
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| 00:03.03 | borg_ | would be great if one could update it |
| 00:03.29 | borg_ | i will have time to hack from friday to sunday :) |
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| 00:05.03 | tuukkah | there's so much that needs to be done, there's enough for everyone ;-) |
| 00:05.27 | borg_ | it is pretty hard to figure out what exactly has to be done :) |
| 00:05.48 | tuukkah | update your phone, see what doesn't work, fix :-) |
| 00:05.51 | balrog-kun | i think FIC probably has ways to test things like emergency calls without making a real emergency call |
| 00:06.32 | balrog-kun | you could theoretically test with a simulator but this might be a too important feature for the risk :) |
| 00:06.34 | borg_ | tuukkah: the guis dont tell me what functionality is or is not implemented in gsmd... |
| 00:07.12 | tuukkah | borg_, so you're specifically interested in gsmd? have you looked at the code? |
| 00:07.23 | borg_ | tuukkah: yes |
| 00:07.36 | borg_ | i am interested in the basic stuff |
| 00:07.57 | borg_ | i am somehow not skilled enough for the suspend to ram thingy :\ |
| 00:08.16 | tuukkah | what about neod stuff? |
| 00:08.36 | borg_ | sounds good too :) |
| 00:09.06 | tuukkah | for example, the menus don't rotate if the screen is rotated |
| 00:09.11 | borg_ | but there is no up to date "this things are needed" list either.. ;) |
| 00:09.34 | borg_ | ok |
| 00:09.37 | borg_ | :) |
| 00:09.42 | tuukkah | also, when the screen goes black, touch events still go through to apps |
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| 00:09.53 | tuukkah | and there's no screen-lock |
| 00:10.11 | borg_ | 01:09 < tuukkah> for example, the menus don't rotate if the screen is rotated |
| 00:10.15 | borg_ | thats not true for my build :P |
| 00:10.37 | tuukkah | first is mostly cosmetic, second bad usability, third makes the battery last shorter for example |
| 00:10.47 | tuukkah | borg_, cool, i haven't checked lately |
| 00:11.06 | borg_ | tuukkah: and i have a "lock now" button which locks the screen :P |
| 00:11.16 | borg_ | works pretty nice :) |
| 00:12.42 | tuukkah | you might want to update http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neod |
| 00:13.39 | borg_ | tuukkah: dont know, there is a link to "Power management menu" |
| 00:13.53 | borg_ | and there are all functions described |
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| 00:14.56 | tuukkah | if nothing changed since i wrote those pages, they're still buggy |
| 00:15.27 | borg_ | 20:37, 10 September 2007 TuukkaH |
| 00:15.33 | borg_ | yes, you are the last one :) |
| 00:15.49 | tuukkah | that is, the "Lock Phone" menu entry puts the phone in suspend-to-ram |
| 00:16.09 | tuukkah | not same as screenlock |
| 00:16.14 | borg_ | i dont think there is another state needed |
| 00:16.43 | tuukkah | i can't use suspend-to-ram since it stops music |
| 00:16.49 | borg_ | (i assume that wake on gsm will work some time) |
| 00:16.52 | borg_ | mmmh |
| 00:16.56 | borg_ | thats right |
| 00:17.12 | borg_ | but these different states of sleeping are so confusing for normal people |
| 00:17.30 | borg_ | like "suspend to ram", "suspend to disk", ... on laptops |
| 00:18.11 | tuukkah | so perhaps it should be possible to change elsewhere whether "Lock Phone" does suspend-to-ram or screen lock |
| 00:18.44 | tuukkah | for example, the music player would disable suspend-to-ram while it's playing |
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| 00:19.35 | borg_ | sounds good to me |
| 00:19.40 | tuukkah | ok what about this: suspend-to-ram mode is too easy to escape accidentally, since it only takes a single button press |
| 00:20.02 | borg_ | dont know, the buttons are pretty hard to press actually :P |
| 00:21.34 | tuukkah | if i have the phone in my pocket i'm sure it'll accidentally wake up and call some |
| 00:21.37 | tuukkah | -one |
| 00:22.20 | tuukkah | what about a more real lock that takes a pin to open, for security? |
| 00:23.20 | borg_ | for a phone, for which you can find a tutorial on how to flash a new version of the os with google? ;) |
| 00:23.30 | borg_ | but ok, should be there of course |
| 00:23.47 | borg_ | mh |
| 00:23.54 | borg_ | openmoko-messanger2 is odd |
| 00:24.09 | borg_ | cant figure out how it sould be used |
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| 00:24.16 | tuukkah | later, we can add a password to u-boot i suppose |
| 00:25.02 | borg_ | ah, got it :) |
| 00:25.29 | tuukkah | (then you'd need a debug board, can't work around that really) |
| 00:26.59 | borg_ | you need a simple look with password to prevent people from setting an awkawk ringtone while you not looking after your phone and things like that |
| 00:27.55 | nbd | could be implemented like bluetooth pairing |
| 00:28.02 | nbd | with having to enter a number on both sides |
| 00:28.36 | borg_ | to prevent something like that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hkZaa3GM-Y |
| 00:28.37 | borg_ | *g* |
| 00:28.42 | tuukkah | nbd, what could? |
| 00:30.28 | nbd | security on the usb port |
| 00:30.50 | nbd | i mean from an interface PoV |
| 00:31.21 | tuukkah | i was thinking cases where you lose physical control to the phone for a while |
| 00:33.21 | SpeedEvil | You need a u-boot password/phrase to stop the semi-intelligent flashing it |
| 00:33.40 | SpeedEvil | and you need a JTAG lock or something to stop the debug board working |
| 00:33.58 | SpeedEvil | the first is trivial, the second isn't |
| 00:34.29 | tuukkah | i don't know if jtag lock is that important. the flash can be extracted in any case |
| 00:34.59 | SpeedEvil | If my phone is stolen I want it to be completely useless to the thief. |
| 00:35.11 | SpeedEvil | I do not want them to be able to flash it - even with a debug board. |
| 00:35.25 | nbd | trying to secure the phone against physical access is futile |
| 00:35.40 | SpeedEvil | No, it's not. |
| 00:35.51 | SpeedEvil | Increasing the cost of physical access has a point. |
| 00:36.11 | SpeedEvil | For example - uboot password means that someone has to get a debug board |
| 00:36.21 | borg_ | SpeedEvil: dont know |
| 00:36.25 | borg_ | what is the point? |
| 00:36.36 | SpeedEvil | JTAG password means that they have to open it up and probe points on the PCB to flash it. |
| 00:36.41 | tuukkah | well, let's start with the trivial parts first :-) |
| 00:37.01 | SpeedEvil | I want my neo to have utterly no resale value if it's stolen. I do not want anyone able to reactivate it. |
| 00:37.33 | borg_ | i like the "the phone sends gps points secretly when a wrong pin is used" approach more |
| 00:37.44 | mwester-laptop | The folks on Mission Impossible had that figured out, SpeedEvil |
| 00:37.47 | borg_ | there is a chance that you get it back then |
| 00:38.01 | SpeedEvil | and you think police are going to be interested in investigating that bor? |
| 00:38.21 | SpeedEvil | At least here (uk) there is little hope. |
| 00:38.38 | borg_ | mwester-laptop: do you know what of the "currently missing" section is uptodate? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gsmd |
| 00:39.14 | borg_ | SpeedEvil: dont know, you can investigate for yourself :) |
| 00:39.26 | borg_ | and be killed or something like that :P |
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| 00:42.18 | tuukkah | a simple page about partitions: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Partitions |
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| 00:45.03 | mwester-laptop | borg_, I haven't checked that page out in a looong time - so I guess the answer is no, not at the moment. |
| 00:46.18 | borg_ | mwester-laptop: i will have time from friday to sunday to hack something for the neo :) |
| 00:46.39 | borg_ | but it is pretty hard to found out what actually is missing and on what actually someone is working right now |
| 00:46.47 | borg_ | s/found/find/ |
| 00:47.20 | tuukkah | borg_, so you didn't like the neod ideas? |
| 00:47.48 | borg_ | tuukkah: they are good :) |
| 00:48.00 | borg_ | but there is nevertheless a lack of such information ;) |
| 00:49.00 | borg_ | but now i have to get some sleep |
| 00:49.00 | borg_ | bbl |
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| 01:37.16 | sid | Wc |
| 01:37.17 | sid | woops |
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| 04:11.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1022 has been created by mail(AT)mmontour.net |
| 04:11.02 | cdbot2 | * * splashimage.pl always generates 32bpp images |
| 04:11.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1022 |
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| 05:07.48 | xzcvczx | nnpiggy: hey you aruond? |
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| 05:49.32 | CM | Good morning |
| 05:50.11 | fgau | MOIN |
| 05:51.02 | mbuf | CM, good morning |
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| 06:14.26 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 07:19.08 | edistar | hi |
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| 07:25.04 | mbuf | edistar, hi |
| 07:25.18 | ewon | happy thanksgiving, etc. |
| 07:26.18 | edistar | is thanksgiving today? |
| 07:26.41 | Aria | Ayuh. |
| 07:26.45 | ewon | yuo |
| 07:26.46 | Aria | If Today is a Thursday anyway. |
| 07:26.51 | ewon | *yup |
| 07:27.04 | ewon | jusy back from stuffing my face with turkey |
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| 07:27.54 | edistar | it's friday here.. |
| 07:27.55 | edistar | ;) |
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| 08:22.09 | CM | OSM is starting to get known.. Hope it picks up here in Sweden too. (UK centric article) http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2007/11/22/blognation_os_maps/ |
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| 08:48.48 | gordonsyme | I had to apply the following patch to build/tmp/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/include/X11/extensions/render.h, is this a known issue or should I file a bug? (http://pastebin.ca/794602) |
| 08:49.38 | balrog-kun | yes, i believe something like this in bugzilla already |
| 08:50.57 | balrog-kun | gordonsyme: but there was no patch actually |
| 08:51.06 | balrog-kun | !ombug 1021 |
| 08:51.07 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 1021, Status: VERIFIED (FIXED), Created: Unknown |
| 08:51.08 | cdbot2 | * * yoyo(AT)ghost.pl: xserver-kdrive |
| 08:51.09 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1021 |
| 08:51.18 | balrog-kun | gordonsyme: you could mention the patch there |
| 08:51.45 | gordonsyme | balrog-kun: well it's not exactly a complex patch, just adds an include :) |
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| 08:52.20 | balrog-kun | gordonsyme: yea, but it's better than the current resolution i think :) |
| 08:52.28 | gordonsyme | balrog-kun: on reading the bug it seems that patching isn't the right fix anyway... |
| 08:53.07 | balrog-kun | the bug is that it doesn't update cleanly AIUI |
| 08:53.30 | balrog-kun | the comments to #1021 basically say let's leave it like it is |
| 08:53.56 | balrog-kun | (i don't think that's the right thing to do) |
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| 09:30.55 | CM | ~hail raster |
| 09:30.56 | apt | ACTION bows down to raster and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" |
| 09:32.04 | raster | CM: actually it has only bee a bit of rain and drizzle |
| 09:32.05 | raster | :) |
| 09:32.15 | CM | Hehe, good to hear :) |
| 09:32.29 | CM | Been working on anything fun lately? |
| 09:32.31 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 09:33.16 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@p549B8C8A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:33.59 | raster | hmmmm |
| 09:34.01 | raster | not entirely |
| 09:35.48 | raster | unfortunately |
| 09:36.38 | CoreDump | =) |
| 09:36.50 | CVirus | raster: you got the GTA02 .. right ? |
| 09:37.04 | CoreDump | It these "not-so-fun" things that show how fun much fun the "funny" things are |
| 09:38.28 | raster | CoreDump: hahahahahahahah |
| 09:38.32 | raster | CVirus: yes - of course. |
| 09:39.03 | CVirus | raster: so what do you think of it so far ? |
| 09:39.16 | CVirus | raster: do we really need another revision ? |
| 09:39.26 | CoreDump | my grammar and spelling are as always impeccable *shudder* |
| 09:39.27 | raster | ummmmm |
| 09:39.40 | raster | i cańt much say |
| 09:39.44 | raster | video is barly alive |
| 09:39.55 | raster | internal builds are painful in supporting the gta-02 |
| 09:39.57 | CoreDump | and the word-order...truly a masterpiece |
| 09:40.08 | raster | as the new kernels that fix usb 1000ms ping issues break gta-01 support |
| 09:40.22 | raster | x driver support is barely up |
| 09:40.25 | CVirus | I see |
| 09:40.32 | raster | its too early to say |
| 09:40.46 | raster | and do u think we need a gta02-v5 u mean? |
| 09:41.28 | CVirus | yes |
| 09:41.40 | raster | don't know yet |
| 09:41.51 | raster | i kind fo ignore hw reveisions |
| 09:41.59 | raster | as we still are working on wireless drivers |
| 09:42.00 | raster | and video |
| 09:42.05 | raster | and other thigns need work |
| 09:42.09 | raster | so irrespective of hw revision |
| 09:42.16 | raster | software is definitely behind |
| 09:42.24 | *** join/#openmoko hrw|gone_ (n=hrw@ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl) |
| 09:42.25 | CVirus | too bad |
| 09:42.42 | CM | CVirus: v5 will be needed for that power issue |
| 09:42.50 | CVirus | CM: yeah I think so |
| 09:42.56 | CVirus | bug 957 iirc |
| 09:43.02 | CM | *nod* |
| 09:43.53 | ScaredyCat | oe,org dead ? |
| 09:44.36 | CM | works for me |
| 09:44.55 | raster | no idea |
| 09:45.01 | raster | power consumption i am not sure about |
| 09:45.22 | ScaredyCat | mtn: connecting to monotone.openembedded.org |
| 09:45.23 | ScaredyCat | mtn: network error: failed to connect: Connection refused |
| 09:45.23 | raster | we need to be able to suspend and resume cleanly to even hope to have good lifetime (Standby time) |
| 09:45.36 | raster | in addtion while suspended you dont want to leak lots |
| 09:45.44 | raster | of current and want to b able to suspend/shut down as |
| 09:45.47 | raster | much hw as you can |
| 09:45.48 | CM | ScaredyCat: Ah, didn't try monotone |
| 09:46.17 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 09:47.10 | CM | raster: Of course. The power thing we talked about is in cooment 1 here: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=957 |
| 09:48.23 | ScaredyCat | seems to be alive again |
| 09:48.33 | CM | ScaredyCat: Was just about to say that :) |
| 09:48.55 | *** join/#openmoko TheAndichrist (n=andy@CPE-72-128-95-237.wi.res.rr.com) |
| 09:50.42 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@dyn167240.wlan.jku.at) |
| 09:50.53 | *** join/#openmoko TAsn (n=TAsn@82.166.236.178) |
| 09:52.30 | *** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@189.70.53.38) |
| 09:56.44 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@rd.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 09:58.12 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@193.50.216.88) |
| 09:58.53 | mbuf | hrw, can your friend who wanted an IDE, try this? http://free-opensource.qvantel.net/mediawiki/index.php/Preity-plugin |
| 10:06.07 | raster | CM: ummm. doesn't mean much to me actually :( |
| 10:06.28 | raster | looks like we can;'t fetch battery status properly |
| 10:06.33 | raster | without using 2 i2c lines |
| 10:07.56 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@sr-fw1.router.uk.clara.net) |
| 10:08.29 | ruxpin | what's the status of the bluetooth driver? |
| 10:09.05 | madwoota | he got some porcelein veneers ... he's now a sparkly white tooth driver |
| 10:09.14 | ruxpin | on gta01.. |
| 10:09.50 | raster | ruxpin: no idea. as best i know its a standard bluetooth chipset wired up by usb |
| 10:09.55 | raster | so it should "just work" |
| 10:10.15 | raster | but i havent payed much attention to it frankly |
| 10:11.47 | jeddy3 | ruxpin, bluetooth works fine on GTA01, if that was what you meant |
| 10:13.10 | *** join/#openmoko Lynet (n=larsg@ti500710a080-7964.bb.online.no) |
| 10:17.58 | CM | ruxpin: It uses the current bluez libs |
| 10:20.02 | Stephmw | mornin |
| 10:20.37 | hrw | mbuf: will give him info |
| 10:21.32 | mbuf | hrw, thanks, also have a detailed user guide there (with screenshots) |
| 10:22.22 | CIA-14 | 03thomas * r3482 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (4 files in 2 dirs): |
| 10:22.22 | CIA-14 | * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer.c: (moko_dialer_rejected): |
| 10:22.22 | CIA-14 | * src/phone-kit/moko-talking.c: (moko_talking_class_init), |
| 10:22.23 | CIA-14 | (window_delete_event_cb), (on_pad_user_input), (moko_talking_init): |
| 10:22.23 | CIA-14 | * src/phone-kit/moko-talking.h: |
| 10:22.23 | CIA-14 | Add DTMF pad while in call |
| 10:23.36 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@tmo-099-1.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 10:27.06 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@vpn-067.vpn.net.ed.ac.uk) |
| 10:28.42 | CIA-14 | 03olv * r3483 10/trunk/src/target/xserver/: Move the development of Xglamo under trunk/ |
| 10:34.40 | raster | olv: yay! work! |
| 10:34.41 | raster | :) |
| 10:38.22 | *** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@189.70.53.38) |
| 10:40.11 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-134-190.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:40.46 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-12026.bb.online.no) |
| 10:44.12 | CIA-14 | 03laforge * r3484 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (12 files): |
| 10:44.12 | CIA-14 | sync with mainline git rev 9a337ddc154a10a26f117fd147b009abcdeba75a |
| 10:44.12 | CIA-14 | (only makefile changes) |
| 10:44.28 | CM | Oh.. Nice too |
| 10:45.52 | CIA-14 | 03olv * r3485 10/trunk/src/target/xserver/patches/ (7 files): (log message trimmed) |
| 10:45.52 | CIA-14 | Split smedia-glamo.patch into 4 patches: |
| 10:45.52 | CIA-14 | xglamo-build.patch |
| 10:45.52 | CIA-14 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:45.52 | CIA-14 | xglamo.patch |
| 10:45.52 | CIA-14 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:45.54 | CIA-14 | xglamo-kaa.patch |
| 10:49.05 | flexd | wow, alot of action today o_0 |
| 10:53.25 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@torimasen.com) |
| 10:54.19 | CIA-14 | 03thomas * r3486 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-dialer.c): |
| 10:54.19 | CIA-14 | * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer.c: (on_pin_requested): Send registration |
| 10:54.19 | CIA-14 | request one second after sending pin |
| 10:55.22 | CM | flexd: Fo sho ;) |
| 10:55.45 | ScaredyCat | yoink! |
| 10:55.46 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@dyn167240.wlan.jku.at) |
| 11:01.56 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@75-168-118-61.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 11:09.27 | *** join/#openmoko anders_ (n=andersg@0x63.nu) |
| 11:14.26 | CVirus | I lost my Nokia 6600 and I'm in need of a mobile phone as soon as possible |
| 11:15.43 | borg_ | http://pastebin.ca/794707 |
| 11:15.46 | borg_ | is this c99? |
| 11:15.49 | borg_ | what does this do? |
| 11:17.33 | CIA-14 | 03olv * r3487 10/trunk/src/target/xserver/patches/ (xglamo-kaa.patch xglamo-xv.patch xglamo.patch): regenerate patches with --no-timestamps flag |
| 11:21.44 | borg_ | ah ok |
| 11:21.46 | borg_ | i got it |
| 11:21.49 | borg_ | never seen this :) |
| 11:23.06 | tuukkah | mjr, are you having success with using gta01 as your main phone? |
| 11:23.36 | CIA-14 | 03olv * r3488 10/trunk/src/target/xserver/patches/xglamo-kaa.patch: some commands take very long time to finish |
| 11:23.58 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-134-190.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:24.30 | *** join/#openmoko Linux_Galore (n=richard@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 11:24.41 | mudyc | tuukkah: do you use it regularly? |
| 11:25.34 | tuukkah | mudyc, as a gprs modem and music player only |
| 11:26.47 | mudyc | is there any problems with the gsm side? |
| 11:27.31 | tuukkah | what do you mean? |
| 11:28.00 | mudyc | like why you don't use it as a gsm phone? |
| 11:28.28 | borg_ | because there is no working gui für sms :) |
| 11:28.50 | tuukkah | we don't have proper power management so the phone needs to be charged every four hours or so |
| 11:28.53 | borg_ | i am not the sending-a-log-of-sms guy |
| 11:28.57 | tuukkah | and gsmd is very flaky |
| 11:28.59 | borg_ | but i get some sms from people |
| 11:29.06 | borg_ | and i have to be able to read them :) |
| 11:30.16 | CIA-14 | 03olv * r3489 10/developers/olv/xserver/: |
| 11:30.16 | CIA-14 | Deprecated. |
| 11:30.16 | CIA-14 | Development has moved to |
| 11:30.16 | CIA-14 | http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/xserver/ |
| 11:32.47 | *** join/#openmoko Audiomind (n=Audiomin@62.79.42.233.adsl.kj.tiscali.dk) |
| 11:33.55 | ScaredyCat | anyone got an opinion on the pocketsurfer2 ? |
| 11:35.12 | mudyc | tuukkah: we have designed a new gsmd from scratch based on glib. it would be a interesting to see if om is interested in for the design |
| 11:36.49 | robster | mudyc: is the source code for that available anywhwere? |
| 11:37.18 | rwhitby | mudyc: who is "we" |
| 11:37.41 | *** join/#openmoko MHazem (n=GoD@196.205.192.94) |
| 11:37.43 | mudyc | rwhitby: the company i work in |
| 11:38.03 | rwhitby | mudyc: are you able to say which company that is? |
| 11:38.19 | mudyc | robster: currently no, i may provide a snapshot for review |
| 11:38.32 | *** join/#openmoko ^leo^ (n=user@r201-221-34-135.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 11:38.38 | mudyc | rwhitby: sure, ixonos |
| 11:40.21 | ScaredyCat | is it goin gto be gpl'd ? |
| 11:41.38 | mudyc | ScaredyCat: what licence would you prefer? |
| 11:41.40 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:41.55 | ScaredyCat | well, this is an opensouce project :) |
| 11:42.07 | ScaredyCat | so you could dul licence it... |
| 11:42.10 | ScaredyCat | dual |
| 11:42.28 | CVirus | An Introduction to Bluetooth Programming http://people.csail.mit.edu/albert/bluez-intro/ |
| 11:42.31 | tuukkah | mudyc, very cool option, i think many people have been hoping for a gsmd replacement to arrive :-) |
| 11:42.34 | ScaredyCat | so your company could allow people to buy it for closed devices... |
| 11:42.58 | ScaredyCat | but the open version could be used in projects like om |
| 11:43.54 | mudyc | ScaredyCat: i would prefer gpl 2 or greater. is that ok? |
| 11:44.10 | ScaredyCat | well, to me that sounds good... |
| 11:44.15 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-134-190.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:44.18 | ScaredyCat | but I don;t get to decide it :) |
| 11:45.05 | ScaredyCat | is your company opensouce frinedly then ? :) |
| 11:45.10 | ScaredyCat | friendly |
| 11:45.43 | *** join/#openmoko a2n (n=a2n@163.26.225.208) |
| 11:46.45 | tuukkah | gsmd is currently GPLv2 and libgsmd LGPLv2.1 |
| 11:48.19 | tuukkah | http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/gsm/ |
| 11:48.22 | ScaredyCat | gpl v2 is probably good enough - imho of course |
| 11:49.17 | tuukkah | at least some of the source files include "or later" |
| 11:49.50 | *** join/#openmoko Schmidt_ (n=extintor@c-aac872d5.036-13-73746f36.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 11:49.51 | mjr | "or later" is more practical |
| 11:50.22 | ScaredyCat | yeah, so long as someone doesn;t force it to 3 |
| 11:52.19 | *** join/#openmoko wibbit (n=douglasf@SAGW-PRIMARY.ARC.COM) |
| 12:01.06 | *** part/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@193.50.216.88) |
| 12:05.28 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-1f171c607a288a94) |
| 12:07.29 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 12:10.04 | mickeyl | morning florian |
| 12:10.19 | mickeyl | florian: i loved our meeting. we should do this more often |
| 12:12.22 | *** join/#openmoko yoyo (n=yoyo@nat.zegrze.maverick.com.pl) |
| 12:12.26 | yoyo | hi ! |
| 12:12.56 | florian | hi mickeyl |
| 12:13.17 | florian | mickeyl: yes indeed, that was really really nice. |
| 12:13.25 | florian | hi yoyo |
| 12:13.40 | yoyo | :) |
| 12:18.14 | *** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:25.15 | *** join/#openmoko anders_ (i=andersg@0x63.nu) |
| 12:27.03 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-65-100.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 12:40.07 | torpor | yo |
| 12:40.16 | torpor | mickeyl: what meeting! |
| 12:40.23 | torpor | florian: what meeting! |
| 12:41.07 | *** join/#openmoko demaledetti (n=ste@83.225.249.116) |
| 12:44.46 | hrw | yoyo: hej |
| 12:46.09 | yoyo | czesc |
| 12:48.02 | yoyo | dose some work on the lock screen (resume problem)? |
| 12:49.08 | hrw | yoyo: power button should resume |
| 12:50.15 | yoyo | hrw: yes it resume bat. after screen back light on and flush main screen on screen it freeze |
| 12:51.15 | hrw | yoyo: checked bugtracker? |
| 12:51.34 | yoyo | hrw: quiet about it |
| 12:52.36 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@81.80-202-132.nextgentel.com) |
| 12:52.46 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 12:54.02 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-134-190.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:54.25 | CIA-14 | 03thomas * r3490 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-talking.c): |
| 12:54.25 | CIA-14 | * src/phone-kit/moko-talking.c: (moko_talking_set_clip), |
| 12:54.25 | CIA-14 | (incoming_timeout), (moko_talking_incoming_call), |
| 12:54.25 | CIA-14 | (outgoing_timeout), (moko_talking_outgoing_call), |
| 12:54.26 | CIA-14 | (on_pad_user_input), (moko_talking_init): |
| 12:54.28 | CIA-14 | Reset "talking" UI on new call |
| 12:58.52 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:59.35 | *** join/#openmoko danilo_ (n=danilo@212.200.65.19) |
| 13:05.28 | CIA-14 | 03thomas * r3491 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/icons/openmoko-standard/ (4 files in 2 dirs): * Add images for stock_person |
| 13:06.53 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@53d828f6.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 13:06.55 | *** join/#openmoko phil1 (n=phm4@mars-fw.arces.unibo.it) |
| 13:08.42 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 13:09.29 | edistar | hi |
| 13:12.10 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-134-190.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:12.56 | torpor | 404: NOTE: fetch http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/openmoko2_svn.o-hand.com_.repos.dates.branches_661_.tar.gz |
| 13:14.50 | *** join/#openmoko Audiomind_ (n=Audiomin@62.79.42.233.adsl.kj.tiscali.dk) |
| 13:18.34 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 13:19.52 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
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| 13:29.57 | *** join/#openmoko romu1us (n=romulus@S0106000625a403af.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 13:30.20 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 13:30.54 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 13:31.51 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 13:34.23 | CM | torpor: Unofficial oe/om meeting in Berlin earlier this week I think. :) |
| 13:38.03 | CM | stock = log in swedish :D |
| 13:38.33 | ScaredyCat | lart = lart in any language |
| 13:38.35 | ScaredyCat | ~lart CM |
| 13:38.35 | apt | slaps CM upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 13:38.46 | zash | hahaha |
| 13:38.49 | CM | ~bop ScaredyCat |
| 13:38.52 | zash | god noe |
| 13:38.53 | zash | one |
| 13:38.56 | CM | Pff.. |
| 13:39.01 | torpor | CM: damnit, why mention it in the channel if we're not allowed to know! tease! |
| 13:39.03 | CM | ~poke ScaredyCat |
| 13:39.03 | apt | ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind ScaredyCat, pokes ScaredyCat repeatedly, hilarity ensues. |
| 13:39.17 | ScaredyCat | ~fish |
| 13:39.17 | apt | somebody said fish was FISHFISHFISH! DO THE FISH DANCE! "Give a man a fish and you'll feed him a day. Teach him how to fish and he'll feed himself for the rest of his life." This is so appropriate, instead of asking us to tell you exactly what to do, why not read some docs, then come back and ask specific questions which aren't covered?, or ... |
| 13:39.19 | ScaredyCat | ~fish cm |
| 13:39.20 | apt | ACTION slaps cm around with a large trout |
| 13:39.27 | ScaredyCat | wtf |
| 13:39.32 | CM | ~commands |
| 13:39.50 | ScaredyCat | ~none found |
| 13:39.56 | CM | I like the emulate ones |
| 13:39.59 | ScaredyCat | ~blame CM for that one |
| 13:40.00 | apt | ACTION blames trivex` and perhaps CM for that one and all the evil in the world |
| 13:40.07 | zash | ... slap a man in the face and he'll never come to you begging for food again |
| 13:40.08 | CM | ~emulate stevie |
| 13:40.10 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (n=dottedma@90.189.165.244) |
| 13:40.16 | zash | (with a fish) |
| 13:40.19 | CM | Äh.. |
| 13:40.34 | ScaredyCat | 'Ä'h ? |
| 13:40.38 | CM | ~emulate stewie |
| 13:40.38 | apt | No Sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you. |
| 13:40.47 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 13:40.47 | zash | Äh! |
| 13:40.54 | ScaredyCat | stewie, not steve! |
| 13:41.09 | CM | ~emulate koen |
| 13:41.10 | apt | the release notes have hints |
| 13:41.19 | CM | ~emulate Crofton |
| 13:41.20 | apt | ACTION don't be so elitist! |
| 13:41.33 | ScaredyCat | shouldn;t that be "whatever you do is wrong, I'm right" for Keon |
| 13:41.35 | zash | ~rape CM |
| 13:41.36 | apt | ACTION takes CM behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams |
| 13:41.47 | ScaredyCat | oe |
| 13:41.48 | ScaredyCat | eo |
| 13:41.48 | CM | Eeek! |
| 13:41.51 | ScaredyCat | eieio |
| 13:42.01 | CM | I' |
| 13:42.12 | CM | I'd spell that Wal-Mart.. |
| 13:42.21 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789 (n=bmk789@74-132-81-162.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 13:42.25 | ScaredyCat | with a lart lart here and a lart lart there, here a lsrt there a lart everywhere a lart lart |
| 13:42.28 | zash | Wal-Mört |
| 13:42.37 | CM | hehe |
| 13:42.43 | ScaredyCat | ~emulate CM |
| 13:42.56 | ScaredyCat | emulate that! |
| 13:43.04 | *** join/#openmoko mzb_d800 (n=mzb@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 13:43.06 | CM | ~emulate XorA |
| 13:43.07 | *** join/#openmoko mzb (n=ubernut@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 13:43.10 | *** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:43.13 | CM | No luck.. |
| 13:43.37 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@193.50.216.88) |
| 13:43.37 | CM | ~hate APL |
| 13:43.44 | CM | Pff.. Not even that? |
| 13:43.53 | CM | apt: You suck! |
| 13:43.53 | apt | Sorry! |
| 13:43.57 | ScaredyCat | naa it did it right... emulating XorA results in doing sod all ;P |
| 13:44.10 | CM | ScaredyCat: Hehe :P |
| 13:44.24 | ScaredyCat | ~poke XorA |
| 13:44.24 | apt | ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind XorA, pokes XorA repeatedly, hilarity ensues. |
| 13:44.29 | CM | That's almost unfairl.. |
| 13:44.30 | Sup3rkiddo | ~rape apt |
| 13:44.30 | apt | ACTION takes apt behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams |
| 13:44.36 | CM | Hehe |
| 13:45.03 | Sup3rkiddo | ...but why walmart |
| 13:45.07 | mickeyl | ~emulate mickeyl |
| 13:45.09 | *** join/#openmoko MuffY (n=chatzill@s55928932.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 13:45.12 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 13:45.13 | CM | ~blame ScaredyCat for starting this silliness |
| 13:45.14 | apt | ACTION blames rob_w|laptop and perhaps ScaredyCat for starting this silliness and the end of the world as we know it |
| 13:45.23 | ScaredyCat | pppfff |
| 13:45.39 | ScaredyCat | ~emulate emulation |
| 13:45.39 | apt | ACTION performs an exercise in hopeless futility. |
| 13:45.40 | mudyc | ScaredyCat, robster, rwhitby: ok, a snapshot of unfinished concept: http://www.ixonos.com/opensource/gsmd-snapshot-2007-11-23-for-design-discussion.tar.gz |
| 13:45.48 | rob_w|laptop | ??? |
| 13:46.01 | ScaredyCat | cool mudyc |
| 13:46.09 | ScaredyCat | lol @ rob_w|laptop |
| 13:47.03 | CM | mudyc: Sure that link works? |
| 13:48.34 | ScaredyCat | worked here |
| 13:48.37 | mudyc | CM: yes (just tried from outher host) |
| 13:48.49 | ScaredyCat | perhaps its only for special people.... |
| 13:49.22 | CM | mudyc: Ok. The link you pasted above gives me: The requested URL /opensource/gsmd-snapshot-2007-11-23-for-design-discussion was not found on this server. |
| 13:50.50 | mudyc | CM: try to append the missing .tar.gz |
| 13:51.17 | CM | Heh, thanks.. |
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| 13:52.41 | robster | mudyc: looks nice. |
| 13:53.52 | CM | mudyc: Cool |
| 13:54.00 | mickeyl | whew! |
| 13:54.05 | CM | mudyc: You should talk some with Writchie|turkey |
| 13:54.12 | Sup3rkiddo | mudyc: the above one uses dbus? |
| 13:54.17 | fatal- | Sup3rkiddo: yes |
| 13:55.26 | CM | There are even nice docs :) |
| 13:55.27 | fatal- | it has not been split into a gsm library and a separate dbus interface in terms of binaries, but they exist as separate files anyhow so it's more or less a formality |
| 13:56.06 | ScaredyCat | wow! there's more docs there than ..... well ... you know ... ;) |
| 13:56.15 | CM | ScaredyCat: :P |
| 13:56.28 | Sup3rkiddo | fatal-: if theres a plan, i am in for a python interface, which should be trivial anyway |
| 13:56.40 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@vpn-042.vpn.net.ed.ac.uk) |
| 13:57.16 | CM | Sup3rkiddo: The test python example is using dbus |
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| 13:57.37 | ScaredyCat | ~lart Sup3rkiddo for not reading the readme |
| 13:57.37 | apt | breaks out the Hoover and sucks up Sup3rkiddo for not reading the readme |
| 13:58.30 | Sup3rkiddo | oh..dang...i am outta work then :/ |
| 13:58.37 | Sup3rkiddo | ~lart Sup3rkiddo |
| 13:58.37 | apt | says "boot to the head" and knocks Sup3rkiddo over |
| 13:59.36 | balrog-kun | ewww glib :p |
| 14:00.10 | Sup3rkiddo | ...man, look at the friggin docs in there, i love it |
| 14:00.47 | Sup3rkiddo | hallelujah, i found *.doc in the doc folder.... |
| 14:02.04 | CM | No pdf in the tech-spec folder, but the filenames of the eps files sound promising.. :P |
| 14:03.01 | mickeyl | "As a result of limited memory resources the C++ |
| 14:03.01 | mickeyl | support was dropped" |
| 14:03.04 | mickeyl | that's very sad |
| 14:03.08 | mickeyl | can you provide more info? |
| 14:03.22 | mickeyl | i seriously doubt that C++ has a real-life memory impact |
| 14:03.31 | mudyc | CM: uh, sorry about that. i'll fix that on next week |
| 14:03.57 | fatal- | mickey1: it's not just memory usage; the whole thing was pain to use in multiple ways |
| 14:04.49 | mickeyl | i need to go now, but i'm very interested about your experiences |
| 14:04.49 | mickeyl | since i'm a strong C++ supporter |
| 14:04.49 | CM | mudyc: Np. I'll run the makefile once I get home :) |
| 14:04.49 | mickeyl | please lets talk |
| 14:04.49 | mickeyl | l8er |
| 14:05.24 | balrog-kun | i also like C++ but i don't think separate C++ bindings for gsmd would be of much use |
| 14:06.06 | fatal- | I've become less addicted to C++ recently, I've noticed |
| 14:06.25 | balrog-kun | and the favourite part of writing C++ applications for many C++ fans is actually making the object oriented wrappers for C stuff |
| 14:06.28 | mudyc | note -- we used sqlite3 for sms storage and there's dependency to very light db wrapper library which was not provided with the source snapshot |
| 14:08.04 | tuukkah | fatal-, are you also part of the gsmd2 effort? |
| 14:08.55 | *** join/#openmoko whm (i=terooj@jymy.kase.fi) |
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| 14:09.37 | tuukkah | mudyc, could you easily provide the stuff in doc/ as pdf somewhere? |
| 14:10.26 | balrog-kun | currently i think the messages are stored outside gsmd, in a place called journal or something |
| 14:10.27 | tuukkah | balrog-kun, is there much that uses the current APIs? |
| 14:10.44 | ScaredyCat | it's not that much of a change is it.... ? |
| 14:10.52 | ScaredyCat | s/of/to/ |
| 14:11.02 | ScaredyCat | s/of a/to/ |
| 14:11.24 | ScaredyCat | s/ it's not that much to change is it/cheese/ |
| 14:11.31 | balrog-kun | tuukkah: other than the kernel and u-boot, i think the dialer/today stuff is all openmoko has (which is ready to use) |
| 14:11.32 | ScaredyCat | pffaft |
| 14:11.45 | balrog-kun | so it's pretty much all of existing user-space openmoko |
| 14:11.58 | tuukkah | balrog-kun, but how much is that dependent of gsmd directly? |
| 14:12.13 | tuukkah | as there's libmokogsm or what was the name |
| 14:12.20 | balrog-kun | tuukkah: theoretically there's libmokogsmd which abstracts gsmd |
| 14:12.37 | Sup3rkiddo | but want that supposed to replaced by phonekit? |
| 14:12.51 | balrog-kun | tuukkah: but the place where messages are stored woul be change not only in gsmd api |
| 14:13.20 | tuukkah | balrog-kun, as long as the gsmd2 api allows us to extract the messages, we can store them wherever =) |
| 14:13.40 | balrog-kun | i haven't looked at the proposed new gsmd but from what i hear it would not only replace gsmd but also libmokogsmd, phonekit, journal and the rest of the design |
| 14:14.22 | tuukkah | i think we better look at the api, docs, and code before speculating :-) |
| 14:14.30 | balrog-kun | true |
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| 14:17.23 | mudyc | tuukkah: http://ip.fi/~mudyc/projects/ixonos/tech-spec-gsm-daemon.pdf |
| 14:18.10 | CM | ~praise mudyc |
| 14:18.11 | apt | All hail mudyc! |
| 14:18.27 | tuukkah | mudyc, what about the doc :-) |
| 14:18.43 | tuukkah | perhaps i can do the export |
| 14:18.47 | fatal- | balrog-kun: it can replace all of those, if wanted, but that's just one option |
| 14:20.03 | fatal- | we do define our own storage for sms'es, we have the d-bus interface etc but on the bottom, the gsm functionality is it's own part of the whole |
| 14:20.15 | fatal- | and defineable as a single .so if so wanted |
| 14:20.44 | balrog-kun | fatal-: nice |
| 14:21.23 | mudyc | tuukkah: i think it has been created with openoffice but stored in doc format :( |
| 14:23.48 | tuukkah | if anyone prefers: http://tuukka.iki.fi/tmp/gsmd2-req-spec-gsm.pdf |
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| 14:26.34 | balrog-kun | i think it would be considered as the #1 option for openmoko if the code was available at the beginning of 2007 |
| 14:27.07 | tuukkah | mudyc, are you sure you don't get in trouble for publishing documents with "company confidential" labels ?-) |
| 14:27.36 | fatal- | tuukkah: well, they probably should be cleared away but they are there per default anyhow |
| 14:28.13 | tuukkah | fatal-, i notice you're an "other stakeholder" :-) |
| 14:29.00 | fatal- | one of them, yes. |
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| 14:36.04 | edistar | why are there no updates about gta-02 :( |
| 14:39.05 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 14:39.34 | CM | edistar: Probably because they're stil working on rev5 |
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| 14:40.47 | CIA-14 | 03thomas * r3492 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (4 files in 2 dirs): |
| 14:40.47 | CIA-14 | * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer.c: (moko_dialer_dial), |
| 14:40.47 | CIA-14 | (moko_dialer_init): |
| 14:40.47 | CIA-14 | Fix direction field of log entry when dialing calls (outgoing) |
| 14:40.47 | CIA-14 | * src/phone-kit/moko-talking.c: |
| 14:40.47 | CIA-14 | * src/phone-kit/moko-talking.h: |
| 14:40.49 | CIA-14 | Remove moko-journal requirement |
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| 14:50.33 | tuukkah | so with gsmd2, multiplexing needs to be elsewhere? |
| 14:51.31 | CM | tuukkah: Isn't Writchie|turkey working on moving the multiplexing to the kernel? |
| 14:51.59 | tuukkah | that's something i haven't been able to follow |
| 14:53.16 | tuukkah | i'd expect the gsmd part to have some requirements to support that configuration too |
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| 14:53.47 | CM | It was balrog-kun and mickey_away who discussed with Writchie, I just saw it in my backlog |
| 14:54.21 | tuukkah | yeah, i think i saw the discussion but i don't have the full picture |
| 14:54.29 | CM | Me neither :) |
| 14:54.52 | fatal- | currently atleast the situation is such that the multiplexing needs to be done outside |
| 14:55.20 | fatal- | we have done some experiments with multiplexing (well, not me actually) but there have been lots of problems with the h/w we are using |
| 14:55.31 | fatal- | trying to resolve that |
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| 14:55.47 | tuukkah | you can always use the neo :-) |
| 14:55.52 | balrog-kun | there are also problems with GTA01 h/w + multiplexing :) |
| 14:56.17 | fatal- | I guess we should try neo, I have one on my table. otoh, I have not had much success with dialing with that particular device so far |
| 14:56.34 | CM | torpor: Something for you maybe? http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/synthesizer/korg-kaossilator-brings-groovy-music-to-the-masses-verdict-must-get-one-325837.php |
| 14:56.51 | CM | Damn, it was cut off |
| 14:56.56 | CM | http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/synthesizer/korg-kaossilator-brings-groovy-music-to-the-masses-verdict-must-get-one-325837.php |
| 14:57.05 | tuukkah | fatal-, dialing is something i'm able to do :-) |
| 14:58.09 | CM | torpor: Sorry: http://tinyurl.com/yqya8n |
| 14:58.10 | tuukkah | CM, your setup may display the lines as cut off but they're not |
| 14:59.29 | tuukkah | CM, perhaps there's no problem with your setup and you can read the complete lines from your logs =) |
| 15:00.09 | CM | I think i can, but I guess irssi doesn't chop up single words longer than 80 chars |
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| 15:00.30 | CM | Or it's because I have the same screen attached from more than one comp |
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| 15:12.35 | torpor | CM: yeah i know about those devices (worked on something similar myself once) but right now the big ticket item for that sort of thing is in fact the Nintendo DS Lite! :) |
| 15:13.03 | torpor | cos ther's apps just like this for NDS .. |
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| 15:19.20 | tuukkah | fatal-, out of curiosity, do your specs and implementation currently provide for AT command cancelling? |
| 15:19.26 | mmp | hello, anyone noticed that web archive of community mailing list is not being updated? |
| 15:19.37 | mbuf | mmp, yes |
| 15:19.48 | *** join/#openmoko jouston (n=jouston@211-74-123-135.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 15:19.50 | mbuf | mmp, quite recently |
| 15:20.00 | Vegar | I haven't received any emails from the list either |
| 15:20.15 | mmp | mbuf: ok, so it isn't just buggy transparent proxy somewhere on way between me and lists.openmoko.org :) |
| 15:20.24 | CM | torpor: Ok, cool :) |
| 15:20.36 | CIA-14 | 03thomas * r3493 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/gtkcombobox: * Fix GtkComboBoxEntry entry fields |
| 15:21.00 | mbuf | mmp, i couldn't find my recent posts in the archives |
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| 15:21.37 | PBeck | hi |
| 15:23.09 | Vegar | mbuf: do you receive emails from the list? |
| 15:24.31 | mbuf | Vegar, yes |
| 15:24.45 | Vegar | meh |
| 15:24.56 | Vegar | I haven't gotten any in quite a while |
| 15:25.37 | ScaredyCat | you should try being married.... you don;t get any, ever. |
| 15:25.40 | mbuf | Vegar, openmoko-devowner, -apps, -devel |
| 15:26.49 | Vegar | I think I'm subscribing to -community, -devowner and -commitlog |
| 15:27.08 | Vegar | I've only received commitlog mails this week |
| 15:28.28 | CM | Vegar: Enjoy the silence! ;) |
| 15:28.39 | Vegar | trust me, I have |
| 15:28.56 | CM | ScaredyCat: Hehe |
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| 15:55.31 | mwester | ScaredyCat: That's why women get married in the first place. |
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| 16:15.28 | wibbit | Are there ANY woman in this channel? :) |
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| 16:20.03 | CM | wibbit: Not sure right now, but there used to be at least two :) |
| 16:20.20 | whm | shocking. |
| 16:20.40 | CM | I'm assuming they keep quiet about it not to be harassed by a bunch of greeks ;) |
| 16:20.50 | wibbit | I don't blame them |
| 16:20.54 | CM | Sad it's still that way |
| 16:21.02 | wibbit | quite so |
| 16:21.11 | mmontour | http://www.xkcd.com/322/ |
| 16:22.39 | CM | mmontour: Hehe :) |
| 16:23.23 | edistar | mmontour: funny ;) |
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| 17:10.30 | ScaredyCat | of doing nothing.... |
| 17:10.32 | ScaredyCat | ;) |
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| 17:16.59 | CM | ScaredyCat: :P |
| 17:17.11 | CM | ScaredyCat: Not far from the truth though... :D |
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| 17:18.01 | dinamich | hey, what up with mailing lists? I have not received any emails for couple of days. |
| 17:18.11 | edistar | me neither |
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| 17:27.54 | mwester | The cone of silence has descended up us all. |
| 17:28.50 | tuukkah | busy reading the gsmd2 docs =) |
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| 17:42.37 | tuukkah | does this say anything: "The first target hardware platform [for the software] is ARM9." |
| 17:43.45 | Writchie | tuukkah: virtually all target smartphones are ARM 9 or better |
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| 17:44.39 | CIA-14 | 03thomas * r3494 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-main.c src/today-task-manager.c): |
| 17:44.40 | CIA-14 | * src/today-main.c: (main): Initialise OpenMoko stock items |
| 17:44.40 | CIA-14 | * src/today-task-manager.c: (today_task_manager_page_create): Use |
| 17:44.40 | CIA-14 | gtk_tool_button_new_from_stock when loading stock items |
| 17:44.40 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
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| 17:45.32 | tuukkah | Writchie, ok. so the neo processor is ARM 9 too? |
| 17:45.57 | Writchie | yes - this is also minimum for android |
| 17:46.19 | Tieku | can plans to put android onto the neo? |
| 17:46.22 | Writchie | arm7 lacks mmu so not suitable for a standard kernel |
| 17:46.23 | Tieku | any plans* |
| 17:46.33 | tuukkah | i read how it's not possible to run android on the neo |
| 17:46.49 | tuukkah | since the current binaries are ARMv5 and the neo is ARMv4? |
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| 17:47.35 | Writchie | source for android has not been made available - if and when it is it will likely be ported in due course |
| 17:47.57 | Tieku | Writchie: cheers |
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| 17:48.31 | edistar | why would you want android? |
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| 17:49.46 | Writchie | edistar: to run android applications |
| 17:50.08 | tuukkah | porting android to openmoko would make sense then |
| 17:50.15 | edistar | hm, ok |
| 17:50.41 | Writchie | it remains to be seen, its many months away and lots to do before then. |
| 17:51.02 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@Mb95f.m.pppool.de) |
| 17:53.36 | Writchie | if you think phones are broken now, wait till you see android phones ;-) |
| 17:53.42 | edistar | heh |
| 17:54.09 | tuukkah | i would give google the benefit of doubt |
| 17:54.34 | Writchie | google has no control over the phone |
| 17:55.11 | Writchie | you will get what the phone manufacturer provides and if that's broken it will likely remain broken as it does today. |
| 17:56.07 | tuukkah | google may do their best in the collaboration with the manufacturers to get a result that doesn't destroy their brand |
| 17:56.49 | edistar | tuukkah: I think they will test the devices.. and not officially support it when it's too broken |
| 17:57.56 | *** part/#openmoko JavaKamel23 (n=fn-javac@d83-181-37-161.cust.tele2.at) |
| 17:58.45 | Writchie | it still apears to me that the only open platform is and will remain the neo. That is not likely to change until what runs on that open platform is worth running. OM is proving whether the concept of an open platform phone is viable and the jury is still out on that, IMNSHO. |
| 17:58.57 | edistar | exactly.. |
| 18:00.18 | Writchie | I will say, however, that based on the qtopia, the concept does appear to be technically valid. |
| 18:01.01 | tuukkah | i don't want to contest neo being the only open phone |
| 18:01.34 | Writchie | tell me another and I'll buy it ;) |
| 18:01.36 | tuukkah | on the software side, it's less becoming less clear |
| 18:01.55 | tuukkah | indeed =) |
| 18:02.34 | tuukkah | should be easy for openmoko to cash on the open hardware |
| 18:03.01 | edistar | if a lot of people like open hardware.. |
| 18:03.13 | tuukkah | or a lot of companies |
| 18:03.55 | edistar | yes |
| 18:03.57 | tuukkah | Writchie, what does qtopia validate? |
| 18:04.53 | Writchie | a workable (sort of) phone on an open platform - what is running is completly in control of user not phone mfg or network. |
| 18:05.44 | Writchie | in my mind neo is the IBM-PC of phones and the OM Linux is the bios. |
| 18:06.19 | edistar | om is the bios? hm |
| 18:06.40 | Writchie | right now we have p-code, cpm, and msdos equivalents to extend the metaphor |
| 18:06.41 | dottedmag | OM Linux is the Linux :) |
| 18:07.22 | tuukkah | openbios at that |
| 18:07.25 | Writchie | the role played by the OM Linux is compatibility with the platform. The platform has moved up to FB and above |
| 18:08.17 | CIA-14 | 03chris * r3495 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 18:08.17 | CIA-14 | * src/phone-kit/Makefile.am: |
| 18:08.17 | CIA-14 | * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-mcc-dc.h: |
| 18:08.17 | CIA-14 | Add a header with mappings from MCC to dialing codes |
| 18:08.17 | CIA-14 | * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-dbus.xml: |
| 18:08.19 | CIA-14 | * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer.c: (on_network_registered), |
| 18:08.21 | CIA-14 | (moko_dialer_finalize), (net_msghandler), (pb_msghandler), |
| 18:08.51 | Writchie | linux (with drivers), + dbus + phone middleware create the new base platform on which you can run gtk, kde, direct fb, java, whatever. |
| 18:09.32 | Writchie | the difference with neo (which is critical) is that is all open and can be fixed (provided the hardware is not broken). |
| 18:09.55 | Writchie | and eventually someone will may hardware that is not broken. |
| 18:10.12 | Writchie | on most phones it is the software that is broken - not the hardware |
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| 18:15.58 | CIA-14 | 03chris * r3496 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-compose.c): |
| 18:15.58 | CIA-14 | * src/sms-compose.c: (send_clicked_cb): |
| 18:15.59 | CIA-14 | Don't try to get selected contact to send a message, unnecessary |
| 18:19.14 | *** part/#openmoko fursund (n=dlai@h59ec0f85.c45-01-03.dyn.perspektivbredband.net) |
| 18:20.23 | tuukkah | well said: <Writchie> and eventually someone will may hardware that is not broken. |
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| 18:38.17 | mudyc | tuukkah: about AT-command cancelation. i don't know about that there have been plan to add timeout for commands which do not respond. also hang up should be prioritized or use muxed tty to get faster to the modem hw |
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| 18:48.29 | tuukkah | mudyc, the more i learn about AT commands the worse they seem to provide what'd be needed. it's a bit tricky, but ATD sometimes needs to be cancelled when it doesn't return - otherwise you can't cancel a call! |
| 18:49.36 | summatusmentis | is there a spot I can download the sounds that will come w/ openmoko? |
| 18:50.02 | flexd | summatusmentis: i guess you can just download any version of the source, the sounds should be there (?) |
| 18:50.17 | flexd | I'm just guessing, i have no clue sorry :/ |
| 18:50.31 | summatusmentis | flexd: any idea if there's a web interface for the source, so I could just get the sounds? |
| 18:50.36 | mudyc | tuukkah: uh. which AT command cancels the previous command? (i have only read the basics of the AT set) |
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| 18:50.55 | flexd | summatusmentis: there's a svn or something around here somewhere, i'm not sure |
| 18:51.20 | Writchie | mudyc: anything send while a command is pending should cancel the command |
| 18:51.44 | tuukkah | mudyc, for more see http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=906 and http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=928 |
| 18:51.50 | mwester | summatusmentis: The current audio is in the svn repo |
| 18:52.23 | summatusmentis | mwester: what's the url for that? |
| 18:53.06 | mwester | already downloaded in your build directory, if you use the MokoMakefile: openmoko/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/sounds |
| 18:53.25 | summatusmentis | is there an online interface? I don't have openmoko downloaded |
| 18:53.57 | mudyc | Writchie: is this a hw specific or general case of the 07.07? |
| 18:53.58 | mwester | http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/sounds |
| 18:54.12 | summatusmentis | thanks |
| 18:54.31 | Writchie | mudyc: general case, pre 07.07 |
| 18:54.48 | Writchie | the CR at the end of the command starts the command processing. |
| 18:54.54 | balrog-kun | lone "AT" is normally used to interrupt a command because it does nothing |
| 18:54.59 | balrog-kun | (that's what gsmd does too) |
| 18:55.15 | Writchie | balrog-kun: a single CR will do the same |
| 18:55.26 | balrog-kun | Writchie: i see |
| 18:55.48 | Writchie | there can be a very long time, many seconds for example in the case of network registration |
| 18:56.26 | Writchie | unsolicited commands can be presented if enabled as well as intermediate responsed e.g. call progress |
| 18:57.20 | Writchie | command processing mode ends and data mode is entered on data when the CR after a CONNECT is sent by the modem. |
| 18:58.26 | Writchie | the most reliable way to operate is to dedicated a mux channel to unsolicited commands and keep them off the other channels. |
| 18:58.41 | Writchie | and dedicate a channel for hangups. |
| 18:59.04 | Writchie | and don't forget that a second call can arrive during a call so you really need to handle call reference values |
| 18:59.14 | tuukkah | an issue with the current gsmd is that there is no handle per command so the cancel command can cancel a later command if the intended one completes unexpectedly |
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| 19:00.31 | Writchie | i'm not sure its even possible to have a free-for-all from multiple apps sharing a single AT command channel. |
| 19:00.42 | mwester | tuukkah: That's one of the major flaws of the existing gsmd that makes a rewrite the most practical approach to moving forward. |
| 19:00.50 | Writchie | amen |
| 19:01.03 | edistar | heh |
| 19:01.24 | tuukkah | now that we have the gsmd2 developer, we should give these requirements to him so he can take care of them :-) |
| 19:01.36 | Writchie | what is gsmd2? |
| 19:01.37 | mudyc | Writchie: did you see the link(s) I gave earlier today? |
| 19:01.52 | Writchie | yes |
| 19:02.00 | tuukkah | Writchie, that's gsmd2 |
| 19:02.02 | Writchie | is this stuff for public consumption? |
| 19:02.12 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 19:02.12 | tuukkah | it is, gpl licensed |
| 19:03.08 | Writchie | it's a good start but there is a lot more dbus definition required and many more use cases. |
| 19:03.38 | tuukkah | indeed. how to collect the specs? |
| 19:03.47 | mudyc | Writchie: ok, it provides a start point to discussion |
| 19:04.00 | Writchie | mudyc: absolutely, I encourage you to continue |
| 19:04.20 | *** part/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 19:04.48 | Writchie | it does, however, required very thorough understanding of gsm specs to design this properly |
| 19:05.01 | Writchie | unformately this is tons of stuff. |
| 19:05.14 | mudyc | Writchie: could you provide more of the use cases and features. we are willing to provide the daemon for public good |
| 19:05.54 | Writchie | I don't think AT commands belong at all to higher layers except for data modem and fax applications. |
| 19:06.23 | Writchie | the higher layers IMNSHO should be pure dbus abstrations. |
| 19:06.50 | mudyc | i agree with that |
| 19:07.26 | Writchie | the lower layers of fully defined by the gsm specs - what we need now is a rather complete definition and abstruction of the upper layers. |
| 19:07.46 | Writchie | then a gsmd daemon can be designed to implemented to connect the two. |
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| 19:08.05 | *** part/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 19:08.09 | anrp | ooh, more layers! |
| 19:08.22 | tuukkah | less |
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| 19:08.43 | anrp | D:? |
| 19:08.47 | tuukkah | no AT command multiplexing layer |
| 19:08.49 | Writchie | applications should deal with one d-bus layer can this already pickup lots of bindings |
| 19:09.04 | anrp | ahh |
| 19:09.33 | anrp | fsm-based multi-to-one serial muxing is .. problematic, at best |
| 19:10.12 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178194088.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:11.21 | Writchie | the neo is both a phone and a terminal which can lead to several issues. |
| 19:11.24 | *** join/#openmoko cesarb_ (n=cesarb@ipanema.nitnet.com.br) |
| 19:12.07 | Writchie | the AP/BP interfaces today are usually multiplexed |
| 19:12.25 | anrp | ? |
| 19:12.58 | mwester | Experimental stuff before it has gotten far enough along for d-bus -- location awareness, for example. |
| 19:13.01 | Writchie | mwester: it may be necessary to have some "state following" |
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| 19:13.27 | mudyc | Writchie: so, you think that the dbus interface should have fax in additional to modemcontrolling, voicecall and sms? |
| 19:13.36 | Writchie | no |
| 19:13.50 | Writchie | i think d-bus can be used to set up channels |
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| 19:14.04 | wirrwarr | huhu |
| 19:14.21 | Writchie | you can use existing fax application on neo or connect through BT |
| 19:15.12 | tuukkah | Writchie, 07.10 channels, you mean? |
| 19:15.17 | Writchie | the fax application just sees a port like bt |
| 19:15.25 | Writchie | yes 07.10 channels |
| 19:15.35 | tuukkah | ok, just as i thought |
| 19:15.46 | mudyc | Writchie: still confusing: do you mean with channel a unique dbus path /application/1234pid or channel aquired from mux (07.10)? |
| 19:15.49 | Writchie | you can even export a full mux if you want over another channel or BT |
| 19:16.46 | tuukkah | so i was thinking that's something important to add to the use cases and the d-bus interface at an early phase |
| 19:16.48 | Writchie | mudyc: for applications running on the neo they would normally just use d-bus except for legacy apps like data/fax which would just use ports |
| 19:17.07 | tuukkah | pppd would use ports too, right? |
| 19:17.31 | tuukkah | or is that the "data" part already :-) |
| 19:17.33 | Writchie | yes, pppd would be just be used directly on the channel. |
| 19:18.25 | Writchie | pppd line discplines connects in the kernel and the "app" is just basically for setup and this would be unchanged. |
| 19:18.29 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@194.125.117.119) |
| 19:18.45 | Writchie | but you could also export the channel for BT for use with your laptop. |
| 19:19.03 | mudyc | Writchie: as you seem to understand the issues quite well: why is multiple channels needed (except for fax and ppp) |
| 19:19.56 | mudyc | or is the gsmd just used to open those channels |
| 19:20.20 | Writchie | multiple channels allows you to have an active pppd session for example, and handle a fax or data call at the same time, and manage you sms messages on the SIM card, and do other fiddling with the sim card, etc. all at the same time. |
| 19:21.10 | Writchie | the major architectural issues is that some chipset allow anything of each mux port and some dedicate certain DLCI's for specific purposes. |
| 19:21.34 | *** join/#openmoko pipomolo42_ (n=pipomolo@ALille-152-1-13-16.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:21.35 | Writchie | so in the general case you may have some set of allowed functions and each particular DLCI |
| 19:21.46 | Writchie | s/and/on/ |
| 19:22.48 | Writchie | BT is another issue and a good look at how the BlueZ folks handle this (especially with dBus) is instructive. |
| 19:24.25 | tuukkah | BT wrt what? |
| 19:24.55 | tuukkah | something special needed of gsmd for dund? |
| 19:24.57 | Writchie | BT services, for example FAX |
| 19:25.42 | mudyc | Writchie: this sounds as every interface should have it's own command queue and if the hw does not support enough channels then just use fewer |
| 19:26.16 | Writchie | basically yes. |
| 19:26.43 | Writchie | you still have some contention issues. |
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| 19:27.43 | Writchie | d-bus already handles lots of issues - we just need to handle what goes on outside of d-bus. |
| 19:28.16 | Writchie | this may require some state following/filtering/ on channels exported, for example, through BT. |
| 19:28.50 | tuukkah | right |
| 19:29.24 | Writchie | There are different views on whether the neo should do all that a phone does. If you want it be a phone, you should do what |
| 19:29.25 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z74d7.z.pppool.de) |
| 19:29.27 | Writchie | phones do. |
| 19:29.42 | Writchie | That being said, lots of stuff is becoming rather obsolete. |
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| 19:31.15 | tuukkah | something like should you be able to use gammu or just some higher-level syncin solution |
| 19:31.28 | Writchie | yes |
| 19:31.41 | tuukkah | or dund vs. pan |
| 19:31.47 | Writchie | yes |
| 19:32.10 | Writchie | or even a full blown 7.10 mux over BT to your desktop if that's what you want |
| 19:32.40 | tuukkah | good to keep in mind if there are some hard trade-offs to make |
| 19:33.30 | mudyc | i will add these as a feature requests for us |
| 19:34.21 | Writchie | it's probably best to think of AT command processor ports in terms of capabilities, with each port having a set of app capabilities any of which may be possibly busy at any given time. |
| 19:34.40 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A5761C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:34.56 | mudyc | btw. if om finds our solution practical enough what scm do you prefer? |
| 19:35.32 | Writchie | mudyc: i am not OM - just another member of community. |
| 19:36.26 | Writchie | it seems to me, however, that dbus capabilitiy is free to use for any purpose. |
| 19:36.42 | mudyc | the question was not directed to you as a person :) |
| 19:37.53 | tuukkah | mudyc, perhaps ixonos should speak with openmoko |
| 19:38.12 | balrog-kun | mudyc: if that happens om will probably mirror the code on their svn |
| 19:38.39 | balrog-kun | or at least have a gta01 patchset in the om local svn |
| 19:38.51 | balrog-kun | based on some stable release of gsmd2 |
| 19:39.01 | mudyc | balrog-kun: yep. sounds good |
| 19:39.06 | tuukkah | perhaps git or svn then |
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| 19:52.27 | Writchie | mudyc: are you planning to require glib? |
| 19:53.34 | roh | what are you guys engineering? |
| 19:54.08 | mudyc | Writchie: it provides a plenty of stuff, e.g. lexical parser, queue, io_channels, dbus-glib etc. if you can point me a better one then we can drop glib |
| 19:55.08 | roh | glib is nice.. too sad its so fat due to compatibility with rotten libcs like glibc,bsd libc solaris libc and all that incompatible shit with different behaviours ;) |
| 19:55.24 | Writchie | it possible to do d-bus without it and its possible to use embedded glib in order to do the d-bus stuff in a glib like manner. |
| 19:55.29 | roh | but its cool for platform-independance (glib) |
| 19:56.13 | Writchie | roh: how big on the neo? |
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| 19:56.26 | roh | hm.. are you trying to re-do gsmd in a sane way? |
| 19:56.39 | Writchie | yes |
| 19:56.55 | roh | Writchie dunny by hand. but atleast a quarter is only due to compatibility with all that different unix-flavours |
| 19:57.19 | roh | Writchie nice. have you had a look at the phonekit proposal and the source of it? |
| 19:57.42 | Writchie | i looked at it a few months ago and it seemed to be dead in the water |
| 19:57.58 | roh | well.. there is code and the dialer also uses it already afaik |
| 19:59.02 | Writchie | one nice thing about a d-bus approach is that it is usable by any upper layer, whether gtk, kde, java, or roll your own. |
| 19:59.09 | balrog-kun | roh: yes, the sms app also |
| 19:59.28 | balrog-kun | roh: gsmd2 doesn't have to replace phonekit though |
| 20:00.05 | borg_ | so this thing in openmoko-dialer2/src/phone-kit/ is some sort of gsmd replacement? |
| 20:00.17 | ewon | I'd be a big fan of the phone functionality working like the xbox360 dashboard |
| 20:00.20 | roh | thats good. what i see that it needs replacement is gsmd, the rest is fine afaik |
| 20:00.21 | balrog-kun | borg_: not at all |
| 20:00.22 | Writchie | the mobile terminal layer (as I think of it) should be devoid of UI completely |
| 20:00.25 | roh | http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/src/phone-kit/ |
| 20:00.31 | ewon | e.g. completely independant of the user process |
| 20:00.34 | borg_ | i am totally confused about this things :( |
| 20:01.32 | borg_ | i looked at gsmd and libgsmd, they dont do dbus at all, right? |
| 20:01.50 | borg_ | phone-kit uses libgsmd and does and it seems to do something with dbus |
| 20:01.55 | borg_ | right? |
| 20:02.38 | balrog-kun | rihgt |
| 20:02.52 | balrog-kun | phonekit also skips the libmokogsm layer |
| 20:03.12 | borg_ | ok |
| 20:03.24 | borg_ | but phonekit is intended to work with openmoko-dialer2 |
| 20:03.46 | borg_ | why does it do dbus, shouldnd gsmd do it? |
| 20:04.30 | *** part/#openmoko dinamich (n=damjan@ub141-7.static.adsl.volja.net) |
| 20:05.10 | balrog-kun | borg_: the whole thing is just siplit into more processes this way, they together do a bigger task |
| 20:05.20 | borg_ | i wanted to write some small popup application that shows up when a sms arrives |
| 20:05.32 | balrog-kun | splitting tasks into smaller tasks is always discutible and is always based on some arbitrary choice |
| 20:05.36 | borg_ | but i couldnt figure out if i already can use dbus for this :( |
| 20:05.58 | roh | borg_that would be a dbus-listener only with some nice ui in the end |
| 20:06.17 | borg_ | roh: yes, but i searched in gmsd and libgsmd for dbus |
| 20:06.20 | borg_ | there is nothing :) |
| 20:06.53 | roh | borg_ the whole field of modem-gsmd-libgsmd-phonekit-dialer is currently in flux and hipefully soon in a much better shape. |
| 20:07.18 | borg_ | it is totally confused which app is doing what thing |
| 20:07.27 | borg_ | one app for one task is good |
| 20:07.32 | borg_ | but there is no clear splitting |
| 20:07.36 | borg_ | at least i cant see it |
| 20:07.57 | Writchie | roh: the kernel mux will be ready soon and this will permit a saner approach. |
| 20:08.05 | roh | Writchie ack. |
| 20:08.10 | borg_ | i really would like to help, but i cant figure out where :) |
| 20:08.12 | balrog-kun | i think you are supposed to use phonekit for this (through dbus) in the final version but now the design is just shaping up and changing |
| 20:08.21 | balrog-kun | borg_: ^ |
| 20:08.22 | roh | Writchie who does that? does he have a device? |
| 20:08.24 | borg_ | ok |
| 20:08.48 | Writchie | i am finishing up one written from scratch - yes I have two devices. |
| 20:09.15 | Writchie | roh: there are a couple of others too - i think. |
| 20:09.23 | roh | nice. you know the ts07.10 has differen 'dialects' on ezx and neo devices, right? |
| 20:09.40 | balrog-kun | Writchie knows that :) |
| 20:09.45 | mudyc | Writchie: how does the kernel driver tell the device names to the user space? |
| 20:10.03 | mudyc | that is, the mux channels |
| 20:10.20 | Writchie | the mux is a line discpline which is attached to any tty that is the aggregate link for the mux. |
| 20:10.39 | Writchie | the module exports N ttys which are the individual channels for any mux |
| 20:10.52 | roh | mut /me then also needs some nice softwarez |
| 20:11.00 | CIA-14 | 03mickey * r3497 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): gsmd: add missing license headers |
| 20:11.04 | Writchie | these have names like muxport1, muxport2, etc. |
| 20:11.31 | Writchie | an ioctl on the aggregate link binds channels to a mux |
| 20:11.41 | Writchie | you can have as many mux's as you like. |
| 20:12.49 | balrog-kun | in the ezx implementation and other implementations th dlc's were called /dev/mux0, /dev/mux1 and so on |
| 20:13.03 | balrog-kun | since it became kind of standard it might be good to use the same names |
| 20:13.17 | mudyc | Writchie: however, there's hw limitation of how many channels can be muxed |
| 20:13.21 | Writchie | they can be anything |
| 20:13.53 | Writchie | mux1 is confusing because its a port not a mux - a mux is normally association with its aggregate link |
| 20:14.36 | Writchie | mudyc: these is a limit of 62 channels per mux by the protocol any particular mux may have a lower limit. |
| 20:14.51 | balrog-kun | right, but it is what existsing programs will try to use |
| 20:15.17 | Writchie | symlink ;) |
| 20:15.37 | Writchie | its confusing enuf without poor choices for naming things. |
| 20:16.10 | roh | well.. having more than 2 is luxus ;) but 2 are needed (e.g. for ppd on one and controlling the modem, unsolicited messages on the other) |
| 20:16.12 | Writchie | muxport or muxtty makes it clear that its the port on the mux. |
| 20:16.15 | balrog-kun | Writchie: do you add a framework like the harald's gsmmux for generic muxing or is there ts0710 code only? |
| 20:16.18 | roh | s/ppd/pppd/ |
| 20:17.30 | Writchie | it's a ts0710 mux at the moment, and "advanced" option UIH frames only. |
| 20:17.40 | Writchie | but it can be extended to other protocols |
| 20:17.42 | balrog-kun | in my version i added a Kconfig entry for general serial muxing and then the list of available muxers (counting 1) below it |
| 20:17.50 | Writchie | including motorola's basterdized 710 |
| 20:18.01 | balrog-kun | i believe that's what laf0rge intended it too look |
| 20:18.57 | roh | well.. if you want, just drop laforge a mail. |
| 20:19.20 | Writchie | the mux protocol is entirely in the ldisc part, so it could be easily separated. |
| 20:19.21 | roh | he did not stop hacking, just wideing his scope *ducks* |
| 20:22.18 | roh | Writchie did i get it right that you want to put it in kernelspace, like this graphics suggests: http://people.openmoko.org/sean/specifications/images/gsm_interface.png ? |
| 20:23.01 | Writchie | yes- i am not in agreement with laforge that it belongs in the kernel |
| 20:23.11 | roh | (ignore the changes to the userspace for now, that graphic is old) |
| 20:23.17 | roh | nice |
| 20:23.24 | Writchie | not inherintly, but because of the pecuiliarities of the linux tty subsystem |
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| 20:24.18 | CIA-14 | 03mickey * r3498 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/util/ (event.c libgsmd-tool.c shell.c): gsmd: fix typos and indentation |
| 20:24.39 | roh | please explain, serial and line-discriplines are not my expertise (but i want to learn) |
| 20:29.17 | *** join/#openmoko yerga (n=yerga@87.223.220.28) |
| 20:29.38 | Writchie | roh: the tty subsystem has a concept of a line discipline which is attached to a serial port and acts as a kind of filter. |
| 20:30.41 | Writchie | the default N_TTY discpline implements the basic default. |
| 20:31.16 | Writchie | there is an interface from the tty layer to line discipline and from line discpline to tty driver. |
| 20:32.30 | Writchie | N_PPP is a line discpline that implements ppp. |
| 20:33.13 | Writchie | for the mux, we creat a bunch of virtual terminals and essentially connect them from the trunk. |
| 20:33.46 | zash | 22kr |
| 20:33.54 | Writchie | so the line discpline operates on the trunk, e.g. as the serial port to the gsm modem or to a pty simulating one |
| 20:34.04 | zash | damn the lag of gprs |
| 20:34.14 | roh | i see.. so connecting one like shown for ppp/gprs is just like a different filter setting |
| 20:34.15 | Writchie | and the mux ports behave like pretty ordinary tty's |
| 20:34.31 | zash | and remote irssi + screen |
| 20:34.53 | Writchie | yes, you just open the virtual muxport and change the line discipline to ppp and voila! |
| 20:34.56 | roh | because having a real gprs0 interface that speaks ip on the kernel would be really cool |
| 20:35.00 | Writchie | or open one as a modem |
| 20:35.15 | roh | fax will be funny |
| 20:35.28 | Writchie | roh: yes - but do you have to be careful of routing and the "connection cost" issue. |
| 20:35.31 | balrog-kun | roh: it would be named ppp0 |
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| 20:36.22 | Writchie | the routing issue will have to be addressed because in some case the user will want to route certain things over gprs always and |
| 20:36.30 | *** join/#openmoko Any_Key (n=Any_Key@62-90-161-50.barak.net.il) |
| 20:36.30 | Writchie | other things through usb, wifi, etc. |
| 20:36.47 | roh | Writchie yes.. but hey.. we still have mr iptables around for asking tricky questions ;) |
| 20:36.59 | Writchie | yes |
| 20:37.35 | roh | i would like policy rounting or similar stuff for that. could work like a crazy routing/personal firewall style exception handlink thing |
| 20:38.10 | Writchie | roh: there are lot's of policy issues to consider in a complete phone stack. |
| 20:38.35 | roh | asking for new policy/case by case when something does not fit the stored default (new accesspoint for example , need to set 'just use, its flat or 'only use when i tell so' |
| 20:39.20 | balrog-kun | what you described so far is hwo ldisc's work on any OS |
| 20:39.33 | roh | Writchie users should be able to select by app and traffic class. apps should somehow tag if its neccessary for operation or just an extra to get data and if its bulk or just some bits |
| 20:39.41 | Writchie | some OS have arbitrary stacking of drivers |
| 20:40.33 | roh | my ssh client should be able to use any connection, refreshing rss feed-images i only would like on flat high bandwith connections, if none avail ask.. and so on |
| 20:40.43 | Writchie | the linux tty stack grew ad-hoc from the looks of it, ld was originally in the tty_io.c IIRC |
| 20:40.45 | emdete | anyone around here who got gps to work? getting a location from the gps chip? i never got one and don't know why |
| 20:41.11 | roh | emdete you know about gllin? |
| 20:41.20 | emdete | roh: yes, i use that |
| 20:41.35 | balrog-kun | Writchie: yes, although i find that irrelevant |
| 20:41.52 | emdete | i read nmea from it via a python module but the location is still empty |
| 20:42.15 | roh | weird. ive not used it myself, but ive seen it working |
| 20:42.17 | mmontour | emdete: Are you outside with a good view of the sky? |
| 20:42.24 | Writchie | balrog-kun: the gsm stack is really in user space |
| 20:42.31 | Writchie | conceptually |
| 20:42.41 | anrp | a clash of ideas |
| 20:42.51 | emdete | mmontour: i have a window in the roof here, a garmin 301 is laying there also with lots of satilites |
| 20:43.31 | balrog-kun | Writchie: definitely it can be done in userspace, and it's believed that whatever can be done without too much overhead in userspace belongs there (not only on Linux), but the main argument was precisely this, the overhead |
| 20:43.42 | emdete | i get $GPGSA,A,1 and $GPRMC,,V which means there is no location found |
| 20:44.13 | Writchie | balrog-kun: yes, that's why changed my opinion of where it belongs. |
| 20:44.28 | balrog-kun | Writchie: ah okay |
| 20:45.36 | roh | when you like crazy 3g stuff.. see this http://www.wireless3g4free.com/ |
| 20:45.41 | mudyc | Writchie: so you are implementing it as a module in kernel space |
| 20:45.52 | Writchie | mudyc: yes |
| 20:46.06 | anrp | has the overhead been measured? |
| 20:47.41 | Writchie | there is very little overhead with the kernel approach because the data is just being moved over from one line discpline on the aggregate link to the other line discpline on the virtual ports. |
| 20:48.02 | balrog-kun | anrp: i don't know, but i trust laforge's prediction on this evenm if it's a complete guess :p |
| 20:48.59 | Writchie | i think laforge agrees there is little difference at todays speeds - its more for 3g and HSDPA in future |
| 20:49.04 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 20:49.47 | balrog-kun | one thing that is now sure for me is that multiplexing is separate from gsmd |
| 20:50.06 | balrog-kun | ts0710 is used by several non-modem devices that use serial ports in some form |
| 20:50.21 | emdete | do i have to do some `echo 1 > /sys/.../power`? |
| 20:50.22 | balrog-kun | there are usb cameras that use ts0710 for instance |
| 20:50.23 | Writchie | balrog-kun: except that gsmd (or equiv) needs to manage state |
| 20:51.19 | balrog-kun | Writchie: if you mean issuing the AT+CMUX, yes, although AT+CMUX is not part of ts0170 document |
| 20:51.44 | anrp | usb cameras .. ?? |
| 20:51.48 | anrp | holy mismatch, batman |
| 20:52.11 | Writchie | if all of the mux ports are used by gsmd there is no problem. When some ports are used outside of gsmd, what is going on in those |
| 20:52.22 | Writchie | ports can effect the mobile terminal as a whole |
| 20:52.27 | mmontour | emdete: I don't have gllin, but I think it does the power-up itself. The power control is in /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0008/gta01-pm-gps.0/ |
| 20:53.05 | balrog-kun | Writchie: what i'm saying is that TS0710 doesn't have to be used with any "mobile terminal" at all, it's a generic multiplexing protocol |
| 20:54.31 | Writchie | balrog-kun: ack - it was designed for gsm but is also used by BT and other stuff |
| 20:55.12 | mudyc | Writchie: I was thinking between the lines of that gsmd could provide a pseudo terminal to "external" applications, i.e. delegate data |
| 20:56.31 | balrog-kun | mudyc: that was the original idea on gsmd-devel list i think |
| 20:57.25 | mudyc | balrog-kun: are there other variants (i may have missed these discussions) |
| 20:58.20 | balrog-kun | mudyc: afaik nope, this idea was first discussed and it was concluded that kernel should do that instead |
| 20:58.47 | balrog-kun | i had missed this discussion and partially implemented the muxing in gsmd with pseudo terminals and the code is still in bugzilla |
| 20:59.20 | CVirus | long time no community updates |
| 20:59.20 | Writchie | balrog-kun: are you the gsm "ports" guy |
| 20:59.44 | Writchie | s/gsm/gsmd/ |
| 21:00.07 | balrog-kun | Writchie: yes, i sent this patch, i think it's still good :p |
| 21:00.37 | balrog-kun | i mean unrelated to multiplexing |
| 21:00.52 | Writchie | the idea looked good to me, but the whole of gsmd has looked ugly to me from the begining. |
| 21:01.35 | Writchie | it does take time and lots of discussion to get this part right. |
| 21:01.45 | balrog-kun | Writchie: this was an attempt to partially clean it up |
| 21:02.17 | Writchie | balrog-kun: ack |
| 21:02.41 | balrog-kun | one of the things i don't like in gsmd is that the mask given to select() is at the same time used as the kindof semaphore which tells you whether a command is executing or not |
| 21:03.04 | balrog-kun | in the current svn it still does it and it's bound to cause problems |
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| 21:25.48 | anders_ | | /home/andersg/moko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/gcc-cross-4.1.2-r11/gcc-4.1.2/libgfortran/mk-kinds-h.sh: Unknown type |
| 21:26.03 | anders_ | .. |
| 21:26.04 | anders_ | NOTE: package gcc-cross-4.1.2-r11: task do_compile: failed |
| 21:26.09 | anders_ | Known issue? |
| 21:27.13 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@frrrc01.vic.sfl.net) |
| 21:32.08 | abraxa_ | anders_: Did you check OE bugzilla? |
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| 21:34.55 | anders_ | abraxa_: Couldn't find it. |
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| 21:35.10 | abraxa_ | anders_: In that case - file a new one, please :) |
| 21:35.59 | anders_ | abraxa_: Not sure if I have broken my environment. |
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| 21:40.38 | mwester | anders_: do you have gfortran installed on your host? |
| 21:41.13 | mwester | if not, try installing that. |
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| 21:51.12 | starox_ | good evening. I'm trying to make openmoko work with xoo, but dbus stop me. When I launch x-window-manager, I got error message like that : GConf-WARNING **: Client failed to connect to the D-BUS daemon |
| 21:52.07 | starox_ | I made users (avahi,messagebus) for dbus, and I'm sure the daemon is running |
| 21:52.27 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat-ca/x-6749141afd0e0acd) |
| 21:53.14 | fatal- | what was the kernel side MUX stuff status? does it work at all or not? |
| 21:53.30 | zash | whats up with the muxing? |
| 21:55.23 | Writchie | Writchie: i am working on a new kernel mux implentation from scratch and it should be released for testing soon. |
| 21:55.39 | Writchie | soon = shorter than an openmoko soon ;) |
| 21:56.21 | fatal- | it'd be interesting to test would it work also with our telit stuff. it has proven to be not so co-operative |
| 21:57.25 | *** join/#openmoko Dark_Apostrophe (n=darkapos@supporter/monthlybyte/DarkApostrophe) |
| 21:57.35 | Dark_Apostrophe | Will the GTA02 have a camera? |
| 21:57.50 | zash | no |
| 21:57.52 | SpeedEvil | Dark_Apostrophe: no |
| 21:57.57 | balrog-kun | Dark_Apostrophe: see topic |
| 21:58.02 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@122-57-162-84.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 21:58.23 | Dark_Apostrophe | Damn. |
| 21:58.44 | Dark_Apostrophe | Are there any other open phones (with a sane price, so the greenphone doesn't count) that will have a camera? |
| 21:59.03 | Writchie | fatal-: telit mux is BASIC option - TI chipset is ADVANCED option. |
| 21:59.21 | *** join/#openmoko Selveste1 (n=Selveste@0x57307c18.hinxx3.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) |
| 21:59.43 | Writchie | i am planning to add BASIC option but it will be after it is working on the neo. |
| 21:59.44 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AED6D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:00.09 | Writchie | I eventually plan to add full support for all of TS.07.10. |
| 22:00.38 | fatal- | Writchie: hmm. perhaps I should finally to bother to read the spec myself too :) |
| 22:00.46 | Writchie | but mototola support will be have to be patched in by somebody else since they don't follow the standard. |
| 22:02.32 | emdete | mmontour: i got gps to work - want to know how? |
| 22:03.38 | Writchie | balrog-kun: what problems have you had with calypso? |
| 22:04.15 | fatal- | Writchie: do you have a link for the 07.10 spec nearby? |
| 22:04.24 | mmontour | emdete: sure - what was it? |
| 22:04.31 | balrog-kun | Writchie: randomly stopping responding basically, or adding a random 0x00 in a middle of a frame |
| 22:04.37 | emdete | mmontour: i had to switch on gsm... :/ |
| 22:04.50 | mmontour | ??? |
| 22:04.53 | Writchie | fatal-: http://webapp.etsi.org/key/queryform.asp |
| 22:05.08 | emdete | mmontour: strange is i did it with my gprs script (i deinstalled gsmd). but: when gllin starts pppd stopps |
| 22:05.09 | Writchie | balrog-kun: in mux mode? |
| 22:05.24 | balrog-kun | Writchie: btw, i have the code that detects the supported "option" and can do either basic or advanced frames out of the data you give it, i wonder if someone can reuse it |
| 22:05.28 | balrog-kun | Writchie: yes |
| 22:05.55 | balrog-kun | as well as decoding of frames and retrying on timeouts etc |
| 22:06.01 | torpor | anyone know a solution to the xserver-kdrive issue? |
| 22:06.11 | emdete | mmontour: does that mean 'assisted'-gps? |
| 22:06.24 | balrog-kun | torpor: the build error? |
| 22:06.30 | torpor | yup |
| 22:06.33 | balrog-kun | torpor: yes, there's a solution in bugzilla |
| 22:06.39 | torpor | ok |
| 22:06.58 | balrog-kun | !ombug 1021 |
| 22:06.59 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 1021, Status: VERIFIED (FIXED), Created: Unknown |
| 22:06.59 | mmontour | I guess it's trying to download LTO data or something. There should be a command-line flag to tell gllin to run standalone, though. |
| 22:06.59 | cdbot2 | * * yoyo(AT)ghost.pl: xserver-kdrive |
| 22:07.01 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1021 |
| 22:07.25 | borg_ | NOTE: package neod-0.1.0+svnr3421-r5: task do_unpack: started |
| 22:07.25 | borg_ | NOTE: Unpacking /data/openmoko2/sources/neod_svn.openmoko.org_.trunk.src.target.OM-2007.2.daemons_3421_.tar.gz to /data/openmoko2/build/tmp/work/neo1973-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/neod-0.1.0+svnr3421-r5/ |
| 22:07.29 | borg_ | mh |
| 22:07.48 | borg_ | why does it use revision 3421 when 3498 is the newest |
| 22:07.49 | borg_ | ? |
| 22:08.28 | CM | Because of locked scr_revs |
| 22:08.37 | torpor | balrog-kun: thanks.. |
| 22:08.46 | borg_ | CM: if i want to write a patch for it |
| 22:08.50 | borg_ | how do i do it? |
| 22:09.13 | borg_ | i modified the latest revision |
| 22:09.15 | borg_ | made a patch |
| 22:09.29 | borg_ | copied it to openembedded/packages/openmoko2/neod |
| 22:09.35 | fatal- | Writchie: ok, thx |
| 22:09.36 | borg_ | and made a rebuild |
| 22:09.45 | borg_ | but then it doesnt work because of the wrong version |
| 22:09.53 | CM | borg_: Not sure, maybe edit openmoko/trunk/oe/conf/distro/include/preferred-openmoko-versions.inc to get the latest? |
| 22:09.54 | borg_ | how is the workflow to do such a thing? |
| 22:09.59 | borg_ | ah ok |
| 22:10.01 | CM | I'm not really familiar with it either.. |
| 22:12.08 | *** part/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat-ca/x-6749141afd0e0acd) |
| 22:14.37 | emdete | mmontour: it's not using gprs, it seems to use gsm somehow... |
| 22:16.30 | torpor | i wish i could use gprs |
| 22:20.13 | emdete | torpor: where is your problem? |
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| 22:21.52 | CIA-14 | 03andrew * r3499 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/env: |
| 22:21.52 | CIA-14 | Ensure every SIGALRM causes a cpu_loop_exit(). |
| 22:21.52 | CIA-14 | Take back the forcing of clocksource, the dynticks should now be functional. |
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| 22:25.58 | CIA-14 | 03andrew * r3500 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (cpu-all.h cpu-exec.c exec.c vl.c): Changes missing from previous commit due to svn vs. git mutual hate. |
| 22:27.01 | torpor | emdete: with kdrive-xserve, but i've done the details described in the bugzilla entry and it seems to have moved on .. |
| 22:27.12 | mmontour | emdete: I guess you could 'strace -x -s9999' gllin to see what it's doing. I've never seen it try to open /dev/ttySAC0 (GSM serial port), and I'm not sure how else it would talk to the GSM |
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| 22:27.28 | anders_ | mwester: Installing gfortran on host seemed to do the trick.. |
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| 22:28.47 | mmontour | lol - a gfortran dependency is somehow appropriate for the "neo1973" phone. |
| 22:30.04 | anders_ | Finally an explaination for "1973" |
| 22:32.10 | zash | the 70's called, they want their fortresses back .. or something ;) |
| 22:32.10 | torpor | n000 |
| 22:35.13 | Ghiottone | hi all |
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| 22:37.15 | emdete | torpor: kdrive & gprs? how that? |
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| 22:38.17 | emdete | mmontour: yes, that seams resonable, but i got tcsetattr errors with pppd when gllin startet to show position. i could not reproduce that again... will investigate further |
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| 22:44.12 | emdete | mmontour: there are many option to gllin that seem be related to gsm (like -gsm_cell, -msisdn, -nai (Network Access Identifier), -freq FRQ_PLAN_GSM_R26B13_TRK) |
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| 22:47.04 | abraxa_ | emdete: I thought the hammerhead is an AGPS chip - would make sense that it tries talking to the GSM under certain conditions |
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| 22:47.27 | PBeck | hm have anybody screenshots from the openmoko-messages2 application? |
| 22:47.32 | PBeck | *had |
| 22:48.01 | emdete | abraxa_: :D i still have not understand Agps... |
| 22:48.21 | CM | PBeck: Haven't seen any yet, but I'm sure there'll be a blog post about it soon :) |
| 22:48.37 | emdete | abraxa_: but how does it talk to gsm? is there another chanel in hw? |
| 22:48.52 | abraxa_ | No clue |
| 22:49.01 | PBeck | CM: is the application relativ new? |
| 22:49.16 | PBeck | +e |
| 22:50.02 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: no - it soedn't |
| 22:50.11 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: that's basically in software |
| 22:50.34 | SpeedEvil | emdete: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-GPS |
| 22:51.00 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: ...meaning gllin, which might have AGPS features built in that we just don't know of |
| 22:51.03 | CM | PBeck: Well, been a lot of check ins to it today, last one 4.5h ago |
| 22:51.25 | PBeck | ah yes, cool :D |
| 22:51.28 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: some of the switches visible with -h say something about it AIUI |
| 22:51.40 | PBeck | CM: is this application for sms and email? |
| 22:51.55 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: Hmm, maybe emdete can check them out then |
| 22:51.56 | CM | I don't know, but I'm guessing mainly sms right now |
| 22:52.06 | PBeck | ok |
| 22:52.39 | PBeck | so i musst go now ;) Bye. CM thanks for your informations |
| 22:52.45 | CM | Bye :) |
| 22:52.55 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423 (n=chatzill@A77c2.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 22:54.00 | hhf423 | ssh phone |
| 22:54.39 | mwester | ssh: phone: Name or service not known |
| 22:54.41 | hhf423 | hmm |
| 22:54.46 | hhf423 | heh |
| 22:54.57 | borg_ | :) |
| 22:55.03 | hhf423 | the nov21 snapshot does not ask for pin |
| 22:55.05 | Vegar | mwester: you should've asked for the password |
| 22:55.21 | mwester | Vegar: Aaggh! A golden opportunity wasted! |
| 22:55.24 | hhf423 | and I can not reboot from GUI, just shutdown. what a brilliant improvement |
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| 22:55.46 | hhf423 | ah, oh yeah, my Neo password |
| 22:55.47 | mwester | You like that, huh? I noticed that as well. |
| 22:55.52 | emdete | SpeedEvil: thnx, yes, i read that. but i am not shure what that all means. which layer is used to get the data? internet/gprs? something on gsm layer? what happens if that is not possible? will satelite data be used? |
| 22:56.09 | hhf423 | mwester it shucks |
| 22:56.27 | mwester | And that after the argument with the GSM OM folks about how the neo should never be turned off, but if it gets screwed up, it should be restarted.... How ironic ;) |
| 22:56.33 | SpeedEvil | emdete: in this case - at the moment, it's not actually 'A' |
| 22:56.52 | SpeedEvil | emdete: it's just GPS only |
| 22:57.01 | balrog-kun | we don't need no stinking reboot! |
| 22:57.08 | hhf423 | mwester I agree |
| 22:57.25 | hhf423 | but its the Unix way! |
| 22:57.32 | hhf423 | if it does not work: reboot! |
| 22:57.45 | balrog-kun | is it? |
| 22:57.53 | hhf423 | thats why Sun got a foothold in the Unix world: because Sun's boot fast! |
| 22:58.06 | mwester | No - my point was that if people got frustrated enough, they would power off the phone and use another. OM thinks they will just reboot the phone. |
| 22:58.09 | hhf423 | if you wanted to see a Sun at its best: boot it! |
| 22:58.23 | hhf423 | (phun intended) |
| 22:59.13 | hhf423 | well I know from previous images that the asking for PIN sometimes comes after a few reboots... |
| 22:59.56 | hhf423 | how do I query again if GSM is up via command line? |
| 22:59.57 | mwester | And after all that arguing with OM, we STILL do not have the code to power off the GSM modem *anywhere* in the device. Sigh. |
| 23:00.19 | SpeedEvil | mwester: nothing sends at@poff? |
| 23:00.29 | mwester | Nope. |
| 23:00.35 | SpeedEvil | ... |
| 23:00.36 | hhf423 | and we're still waiting for Google to provide an Android build :-) |
| 23:01.21 | anrp | who would want to power off the modem? ;) |
| 23:01.52 | emdete | SpeedEvil: if it /would/ show a position :/ |
| 23:01.57 | balrog-kun | right, you could run SETI@home on it when you're not using it |
| 23:01.58 | mwester | SpeedEvil: Somebody added code to gsmd so that it could power off the modem (which I believe is insufficient), but there's still nowhere that it's actually invoked. So when you power off your phone, the GSM modem is still happily running, and sucking your battery dry. |
| 23:02.09 | balrog-kun | on the modem that is |
| 23:02.44 | mwester | anrp: It's a nice feature to keep the battery from getting sucked dry if *everything* powers off when you shutdown your phone ;) |
| 23:03.48 | hhf423 | init 0 |
| 23:03.51 | hhf423 | oops |
| 23:04.00 | anrp | init: command not found |
| 23:04.56 | hhf423 | mwester so thats the reason for the battery issue? pathetic |
| 23:05.40 | hhf423 | but in any case, the media player now works all the time |
| 23:05.54 | hhf423 | of course it sometimes skips a split second |
| 23:06.12 | Vegar | some audio thing was also causing the battery issue, hhf423 |
| 23:06.18 | mwester | hhf423: That's not the sole reason. The audio device that was also sucking power has been fixed in the kernel, and there's still the whole power management issue when it's running. |
| 23:06.37 | hhf423 | audio? how bizarre |
| 23:07.05 | hhf423 | there was some audio chip still counting sheep or something? |
| 23:07.15 | hhf423 | busy phone :-) |
| 23:07.17 | mwester | So with recent kernels, and a shutdown script that sends AT@POFF to the GSM modem, I've reliably been able to shut down the phone and have it actually draw no current. :) |
| 23:07.39 | hhf423 | yay |
| 23:08.02 | hhf423 | so how long do you think will take this to get into the official builds? |
| 23:08.06 | Writchie | mwester: did you actually measure it at the battery, - it should still draw tens of microamps AFAIK |
| 23:08.11 | mwester | hhf423: It turns out that there are two devices AFAIK that are "upstream" from the power control chip -- the GSM modem, and the audio device. They need to be turned off separately from the phone itself, or they continue to draw power. |
| 23:08.41 | hhf423 | mwester amazing |
| 23:09.10 | mwester | Writchie: Yes, it draws some small amount - I didn't change the scale to microamps - but I expect it needs some power to be able to sense the USB insertion (for charge) and of course the power button itself. |
| 23:09.37 | mwester | hhf423: That might actually be a feature, I guess. |
| 23:10.28 | Writchie | mwester: have you got anywhere with suspend/resume? |
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| 23:10.43 | mwester | hhf423: How long it takes will depend on many factors, the most significant of which is "openmoko time", which seems to only be loosely related to our dimensions timescales. :D |
| 23:10.48 | hhf423 | ah, qtopia asks for PIN |
| 23:10.59 | mwester | Writchie: I haven't looked at suspend/resume yet (been busy on a SlugOS release!) |
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| 23:49.14 | mjr | bah, it appears Asus screwed up with the Eep: http://cliffhacks.blogspot.com/2007/11/asus-eeepc-first-impressions-and-gpl.html |
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