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| 00:47.53 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:R-R]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Montreal]] |
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| 01:29.14 | riot | the more source of existant c applications for openmoko i read, the more tedious i find the development-process with c.. |
| 01:29.20 | riot | so much boilerplate... |
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| 01:43.50 | technil | does anyone recall the bug # that caused folks to remove the console=ttySAC0,115200 from the bootargs environment variable in uboot I can't seem to find it in bugzilla |
| 01:45.27 | SpeedEvil | you could try grepping logs here. |
| 01:45.49 | SpeedEvil | For console=ttySAC |
| 01:47.17 | technil | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:47.24 | technil | or tired |
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| 01:52.01 | cesarb | technil: 788 |
| 01:52.10 | cesarb | technil: (yeah, I have that number _memorized_ :P ) |
| 01:56.43 | SpeedEvil | I just finished grepping, and found your comment :) |
| 01:56.53 | SpeedEvil | Not especially productive. |
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| 02:04.41 | technil | sorry SpeedEvil cesarb remembered it was #788 |
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| 02:05.17 | technil | that is a lot of grepping... |
| 02:05.35 | sagacis | Then, I read the code and decided it was too hard to figure out the hito and hildon codebase. |
| 02:05.35 | seemant | so when is GTA02 out anyway? |
| 02:05.57 | costan | lol |
| 02:06.02 | costan | look at the topic |
| 02:06.10 | costan | (i know i wanted to ask this question forever) |
| 02:06.15 | costan | on a more serious note... |
| 02:06.18 | technil | seemant: check out the Topic :) |
| 02:06.46 | costan | can anyone tell me if working with openmoko gives me direct access to the SIM card ? |
| 02:06.54 | sagacis | Of course. |
| 02:06.56 | seemant | ah december |
| 02:06.58 | seemant | thanks technil |
| 02:07.00 | sagacis | You just have to write in c-code |
| 02:07.12 | costan | and i can send APDUs to the card that way ? |
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| 02:07.45 | costan | thanks, sagacis, would you happen to know where i should start my readings ? |
| 02:08.22 | sagacis | costan: I've been reading up on that just this evening. Look at libgsmd. |
| 02:08.45 | costan | thanks |
| 02:09.26 | sagacis | There are exported functions for pdu and such. Putting code to do stuff isn't easy, but at this point, I"m considering making a standalone app to see how it all works. |
| 02:10.00 | sagacis | I don't know if there are others looking at PDU. I'd hate to spend time duplicating effort, tho. |
| 02:10.26 | costan | i'll be looking at it :) |
| 02:10.34 | sagacis | heh. That's two of us. |
| 02:10.46 | sagacis | Do you have specific goals? |
| 02:10.59 | costan | part of my master's thesis will be doing a demo on a phone |
| 02:11.29 | sagacis | Cool. Where do you go to school? |
| 02:11.33 | costan | i have some software that allows trusted executing (i.e. money exchange) on SIM cards |
| 02:11.40 | costan | well, on JavaCards |
| 02:11.48 | costan | haven't extended to simcards yet, but working on it |
| 02:11.49 | costan | MIT |
| 02:11.53 | sagacis | Wow. Neat stuff. Oh. Can you run a javacard in |
| 02:12.00 | sagacis | nevermind... |
| 02:12.09 | costan | i hope so because i said i'll do it :) |
| 02:12.16 | costan | java cards can serve as SIM cards |
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| 02:12.29 | sagacis | Cool. Never met a java card. |
| 02:12.39 | costan | so ideally yes... probably with some cooperation from the mobile service supplier |
| 02:13.16 | costan | so i figured openmoko would be the best platform since it's open |
| 02:13.22 | costan | so i can mess with everything i want |
| 02:13.23 | sagacis | I'm not real keen on the GSM providers in the US at the moment, but what choice do we have. Can you encript info through PDU and decrypt at trusted end? |
| 02:13.33 | costan | except i can't get company people to talk to me |
| 02:13.36 | costan | yep |
| 02:13.38 | costan | pretty much |
| 02:13.39 | sagacis | Assuming ATT doesn't get wind of what we're doing and try to block us.... |
| 02:13.48 | bedboi | stupid GIOChannels you can't set a receive timeout |
| 02:14.23 | costan | GIOChannels? |
| 02:14.58 | costan | but re: AT&T i think the iphone's giving them enough headaches right now |
| 02:15.05 | sagacis | The wiki redirects SMS to GSM. I want to unredirect to allow us to put notes there instead of in the Manually Using page. Anybody care? |
| 02:15.08 | costan | they don't have time for small potatoes |
| 02:15.33 | sagacis | I hope so. I've had to call them numerous times about phone-related account stuff. I hope I can remain under the radar. |
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| 02:24.58 | bedboi | it'sreally incredible that g_io_channel_read_chars does not specify a timeout |
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| 02:34.09 | sagacis | costan: I've started pounding out the wiki's SMS page (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SMS). Please add real information. I was only introduced to PDU mode this morning (reading the code), so I don't have much there. |
| 02:36.57 | costan | oh |
| 02:36.59 | costan | :) |
| 02:37.03 | costan | you're talking SMS PDUs |
| 02:37.14 | costan | i'm worried about APDUs |
| 02:37.36 | technil | sagacis: you successfully calling with an ATT sim? |
| 02:37.41 | costan | those are commands that are sent directly to the SIM smart-card |
| 02:37.47 | sagacis | technil: Yes, but 2G. |
| 02:37.55 | costan | it's ISO 7816 :-/ |
| 02:38.11 | sagacis | costan, Sure. Perhaps we need a different page for that. |
| 02:38.28 | costan | sagacis, technil: oh cool, that's another thing i wasn't sure about |
| 02:38.37 | costan | so the phone is reasonably solid, i take it ? |
| 02:39.04 | costan | as in, you can use it day-to-day |
| 02:39.12 | costan | how's the battery w/ ATT ? |
| 02:39.22 | costan | how much does it last under normal usage (mostly idle) ? |
| 02:39.32 | sagacis | costan: Nope. Not at all. The battery doesn't last long, either (3-5 hrs) |
| 02:39.46 | costan | oj |
| 02:39.47 | sagacis | completely idle, without allowing suspend mode |
| 02:39.50 | costan | *oh |
| 02:40.02 | costan | okay, at least it's not 5 minutes or something :D |
| 02:40.08 | sagacis | The gsm stack is crashing a lot, but mwester and cesarb claim to have that partially fixed. |
| 02:40.12 | sagacis | heh |
| 02:40.42 | sagacis | Unfortunately, you can't charge the phone without plugging it into a computer that recognizes the phone on the usb, either. |
| 02:40.43 | mwester | costan: It doesn't work well at all (yet), it works with very few (almost none) AT&T sims and there is no news on when/how that will be resolved (it cannot be fixed in software), the battery only lasts a few hours (power-managment is not yet working). It's a work in progress. :) |
| 02:41.10 | sagacis | I bought an ATT 2G sim card on ebay to use the phone. |
| 02:41.21 | sagacis | That doesn't help your advanced usage, I suppose |
| 02:41.24 | costan | lol so it needs a 2g card |
| 02:41.40 | sagacis | It might work better on TMobile, but I don't know anybody who has tried. |
| 02:41.44 | costan | oh |
| 02:41.45 | costan | oka |
| 02:41.47 | mwester | That's only part of the problem, the other part is that the phone won't talk on the 800MHz frequencies, which are often used by AT&T. |
| 02:41.47 | costan | *okay |
| 02:41.51 | costan | i have t-mo |
| 02:42.07 | costan | i forget... it's 900/1800/1900 right ? |
| 02:42.10 | mwester | I have T-Mobile as well -works fine. |
| 02:42.21 | technil | mwester : just anwered my 800 Mhz question |
| 02:42.24 | sagacis | costan: It's quad, but not licensed for 800, apparently. |
| 02:42.47 | Aria | Works fine here too, on TMO |
| 02:42.51 | mwester | We don't know the story there -- it didn't get FCC approval for the 800 band. |
| 02:42.53 | sagacis | mwester: Could the differences in our experiences be TMobile v. ATT? |
| 02:42.56 | technil | my UNICEL SIm is a no go because they use 800/850 |
| 02:43.09 | technil | or at lest i think so.. |
| 02:43.26 | mwester | We don't know if it was planned to be skipped for the 01 due to time or $, or if it just didn't work and they approved what they could. I suspect the latter. |
| 02:43.50 | mwester | sagacis: I hadn't thought of it, but that is a reasonable explanation, I guess. |
| 02:44.04 | sagacis | The 800 MHz is a more restricted band, too. the FCC requires different testing practices for licensing. |
| 02:44.35 | costan | 'cause it's too close to other stuff ? |
| 02:44.36 | costan | :) |
| 02:44.37 | sagacis | mwester: I'm not seeing any difference with your patch. :( I've moved on to trying to get my contacts off the sim card. |
| 02:44.50 | mwester | I think the 800 band is shared with analog phone, right? |
| 02:44.58 | mwester | sagacis: which patch? |
| 02:45.01 | sagacis | costan: I guess. I don't really know. I just spout half-baked rumors like they're true. ;-) |
| 02:45.26 | sagacis | mwester: The gsmd patch |
| 02:45.56 | mwester | If you mean the kernel patch, that's good. There's a workaround in /etc/init.d/gsmd that prevents the bug from being triggered. |
| 02:46.06 | sagacis | Ah. Good. |
| 02:46.13 | sagacis | Yes, the kernel patch. |
| 02:46.17 | technil | ahh #788 |
| 02:46.23 | mwester | So as long as you only use /etc/init.d/gsmd to start/stop the daemon, you'll be fine without the kernel patch. |
| 02:46.34 | mwester | technil: Yep, that one. |
| 02:46.36 | sagacis | Well, I'm not fine anyway.... |
| 02:46.52 | mwester | If your phone doesn't lock up, then the workaround/patch is working. |
| 02:47.08 | mwester | It doesn't make gsmd work, it just stops it from locking up your phone. |
| 02:47.10 | sagacis | Oh, that one. Right. But I"m only as good as three weeks ago. |
| 02:47.22 | sagacis | So, no progress on starting the gsmd reliably? |
| 02:47.27 | sagacis | I fail to start most of the time. |
| 02:47.29 | mwester | Huh? |
| 02:47.33 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[SMS]] |
| 02:47.43 | mwester | Gsmd starts all the time now. |
| 02:48.01 | mwester | Yeah, you're a bit out of date there!! |
| 02:48.02 | sagacis | Not for me. 75% of the time, gsmd doesn't start for me. |
| 02:48.06 | sagacis | Nope. Up to date. |
| 02:48.21 | sagacis | All the latest/greatest. |
| 02:48.27 | mwester | Pastebin your /etc/init.d/gsmd script, and the /tmp/gsm.log file. |
| 02:48.29 | sagacis | I even flashed with the images you posted this week. |
| 02:48.31 | sagacis | OK. |
| 02:48.47 | sagacis | Let me finish booting. I was unloading my sim card in another phone. |
| 02:49.33 | cesarb | sagacis: what's the symptom when it doesn't start? look at /tmp/gsmd.log... does it get an answer from the modem? where does it get stuck? |
| 02:50.26 | sagacis | http://cl1p.net/gsm.log/ |
| 02:51.01 | technil | sagacis: did you possibly savenv after doing the early workaround (removing console=ttySAC0,115200 ) from bootargs_base in uboot? |
| 02:51.32 | technil | i had to put that back in |
| 02:51.33 | sagacis | technil: I've done it both ways. |
| 02:51.39 | technil | ok |
| 02:51.42 | sagacis | I think it's back in now. I'll have to check. |
| 02:51.58 | sagacis | It's possible I didn't save it when I put it back in. |
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| 02:52.31 | technil | 'tis a bit scary to do that with my escaping character old uboot |
| 02:52.56 | mwester | I update the kernel patch to work even if you don't have the console defined in the uboot environment, but I havent' attached it to the bug yet. Doesn't seem to be any rush, since I'm told that Harald has to approve that before it goes in, and he's busy on the gta02 until probably end of october I heard. |
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| 02:53.31 | sagacis | it looks like I booted with the console=ttySAC |
| 02:53.41 | mwester | sagacis: Your gsmd script is fine, you don't need the kernel patch. Your gsm log file says that gsmd started up fine, and established communications with the GSM modem. |
| 02:53.47 | technil | thanks for the info mwester |
| 02:53.55 | sagacis | Yeah, I am running with mwester's kernel patch. I was the one not booting the other day w/o the console in bootargs_base |
| 02:54.40 | sagacis | an then an ERROR when AT+CFUN=1 |
| 02:55.04 | sagacis | +EXT ERROR: 5, more precisely |
| 02:55.17 | mwester | Yeah, I saw that too. |
| 02:55.32 | sagacis | So, I can't succeeed with the COPS |
| 02:55.42 | sagacis | succeeeeeed, even |
| 02:57.32 | SpeedEvil | How long can a SEP field last if powered by the neo battery though? |
| 02:57.38 | sagacis | lol |
| 02:57.39 | mwester | hehe! |
| 02:57.54 | SpeedEvil | Now that would be a killer app. |
| 02:57.56 | technil | heh |
| 02:58.01 | SpeedEvil | Personal SEP field. |
| 02:58.38 | mwester | Seriously though, I think that we first needed a reliable way to start gsmd, now that we have that, we can start figuring out why it won't register on the network, and why it won't switch cell sites very reliably either. |
| 02:59.03 | mwester | Google doesn't come up with anything useful for "EXT ERROR: 5", I'm afraid. |
| 02:59.55 | sagacis | mwester: So, you're saying my gsmd is starting, and that's the "success" you were aiming at. |
| 02:59.59 | technil | btw, any ATT SIM users getting a CME 30 error on attempts to register? that is what i get on my unicel SIM |
| 03:00.15 | sagacis | Next, we just need to get it working, right? |
| 03:00.22 | mwester | It's worrisome because it's in response to the initialization of the GSM modem (CFUN=1). Apparently it can't start that to even attempt to register. I'd check for SIM problems, sagacis |
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| 03:00.59 | sagacis | Sorry, it works usually, and ALWAYS in another phone, or using qtopia. I only have this problem in moko-land |
| 03:01.07 | mwester | sagacis: Yes, your gsmd is working correctly. It seems that your GSM modem, however, is not. |
| 03:01.24 | technil | CME 30 is a "no network service" error |
| 03:01.28 | sagacis | If I cfun AFTER boot (i.e. manually), it works OK. |
| 03:01.42 | mwester | Ah, that's good info. So there's something wrong with the initialization sequence, probably related to something about your SIM I would expect? |
| 03:01.59 | sagacis | Maybe. |
| 03:02.12 | sagacis | It was starting and registering all the time 2-3 weeks ago. |
| 03:02.19 | sagacis | I had the gsmd stop/start in the matchbox session. |
| 03:02.20 | mwester | rwhitby was mentioning that he too had to restart gsmd after boot to get it to register. |
| 03:02.27 | technil | oy. |
| 03:02.42 | mwester | If you put the restart in the matchbox session, does that fix it? |
| 03:03.41 | mwester | I wonder if we're just not giving the modem enough time, and its not ready for the power up. |
| 03:03.48 | sagacis | mwester: the session restart no longer works, although if I restartX after booting (thereby restarting gsmd), it seems to work OK. |
| 03:04.01 | mwester | restarting X shouldn't restart gsmd. |
| 03:04.27 | mwester | If it does, that would probably be a bug, I think. |
| 03:04.35 | sagacis | mwester: Unless I put gsmd restart in /etc/matchbox/session |
| 03:04.51 | mwester | Ah, ok |
| 03:05.16 | technil | heh |
| 03:05.21 | mwester | I wish we knew what EXT ERROR: 5 really meant. Anyone have a manual for the TI GSM modem? |
| 03:05.41 | sagacis | OK, after restarting gsmd and restarting X, the modem is alive and registered. |
| 03:05.58 | sagacis | Are the EXT errors chip specific? |
| 03:07.48 | mwester | I seem to recall reading that they are specific ("extended") codes, and that we had to have sent the GSM modem a flag to enable it to respond with those non-standard codes. But that might not apply here, I can't find any info that really looks definitive. |
| 03:09.38 | sagacis | All right. I'm putting gsmd stop/start back into my matchbox/session |
| 03:09.55 | mwester | sagacis: what carrier is that SIM for? |
| 03:10.05 | sagacis | ATT |
| 03:10.21 | sagacis | the old one, probably. Pre-cingular |
| 03:10.21 | mwester | When they were Cingular? |
| 03:10.29 | mwester | Pre-cingular! Wow, that's old. |
| 03:10.30 | sagacis | I can read your mind |
| 03:10.34 | sagacis | I e-bayed it. |
| 03:10.36 | mwester | hehe! |
| 03:10.46 | sagacis | From somebody's back room. |
| 03:11.00 | sagacis | "Found under the cabinet of a closed store when cleaning up" most likely. |
| 03:11.08 | mwester | Did you have any trouble getting it activated? |
| 03:11.12 | sagacis | Nope. |
| 03:11.21 | sagacis | Just read them the number, they said "you're all set" |
| 03:12.58 | mwester | Looking at the timestamps in the log, the modem is idle for 8 seconds (plenty long enough) before the CFUN arrives, but it resonds immediately with the unexpected code. |
| 03:13.08 | sagacis | mwester: I have a theory that the gsmd doesn't re-register after a crash/reboot correctly, and it won't connect until the provider times out the connection. |
| 03:13.11 | sagacis | Is that possible? |
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| 03:13.33 | sagacis | Wow. 8 seconds wasted in the boot.... |
| 03:14.09 | mwester | It's not supposed to be possible, because the modem is actually powered off when the CPU resets, and not powered back up until /etc/init.d/gsmd turns it on. |
| 03:14.23 | mwester | I have no idea what the state on the other end (network) is, however... |
| 03:14.49 | sagacis | my cellID keeps switching. |
| 03:15.04 | sagacis | I'm just sitting at my desk. The phone's not moving. |
| 03:15.08 | mwester | (the wasted time is probably X starting up - the dialer powers up the modem.) |
| 03:15.37 | sagacis | I put the gsmd stop/start right before the dialer. Is it not running when I call stop, then? |
| 03:15.56 | mwester | I've seen that with wifi on a laptop; simple fix was to change a setting. I wonder if we have the same control of the GSM modem and switching cell sites. |
| 03:15.57 | sagacis | Then, when the dialer comes up, it's already started |
| 03:16.42 | sagacis | I seem to get to a lower sig strength, so it switches to a different cell.... |
| 03:16.58 | sagacis | but doesn't like that one as much, so when the first's strength comes up, it switches back |
| 03:16.59 | mwester | The way its supposed to work is that daemon starts early, and runs all the time. Clients like the dialer can come and go, and control the connection. But the gsmd process should never exit, and never fail. |
| 03:17.15 | sagacis | Right. |
| 03:17.48 | sagacis | You said the dialer powers up the modem. gsmd start doesn't, then? |
| 03:18.04 | mwester | Which makes me think that the actual powerup/down of the GSM modem hardware (not the CFUN command) should also be a function performed by gsmd itself. |
| 03:18.19 | sagacis | Right, that's what I was thinking. |
| 03:18.28 | mwester | Oh, there are two "power up" things. |
| 03:18.45 | sagacis | Oh. CFUN powers up the amplifier, but the modem is already one? |
| 03:18.46 | sagacis | on? |
| 03:19.37 | mwester | There's a GPIO line on the CPU that can apply/remove power to the GSM modem chip itself, and there's the CFUN command that can control the number of services (if I read correctly) that the GSM modem is providing. |
| 03:20.11 | mwester | CFUN=0 puts it in a low-power state (almost-off), CFUN=1 resets the GSM protocol stack in the modem, and enables all functions. |
| 03:20.38 | mwester | The other magic CFUN incantations wouild presumably be ways we could use to reduce power and extend battery life. |
| 03:20.44 | sagacis | OK. gsmd does none of that, though? (I'm poring through the code now) |
| 03:21.06 | mwester | gsmd does none of that right now. |
| 03:22.12 | mwester | It'll be tricky, I think -- there's a lot of power management that happens in the kernel, and in other processes. They may need ways to signal gsmd to do stuff. |
| 03:22.28 | mwester | Or maybe neod needs to be a client of gsmd as well, and neod can manage the power. |
| 03:23.05 | SpeedEvil | neod is probably the right place - the modem has to work when powered off. |
| 03:23.05 | sagacis | cfun=2 is disable transmit, cfun=3 is disable receive, cfun=4 is disable both, dfun=0 is trasceiver off |
| 03:23.10 | SpeedEvil | I dunno. |
| 03:23.39 | SpeedEvil | when the system is powered off. |
| 03:23.44 | mwester | But I think we need to erect a huge SEP over the power management section of the GSM modem, and figure out why it won't respond properly to a simple CFUN=1 |
| 03:23.50 | SpeedEvil | that means intimate setup with the power. |
| 03:24.11 | sagacis | mwester: You have a lot of blind eyes. ;-) |
| 03:24.14 | SpeedEvil | I found it to be unstable until I gave it a couple of seconds |
| 03:24.22 | SpeedEvil | before sending it at+cfun |
| 03:24.26 | mwester | Blindness is necessary for debugging. :) |
| 03:24.48 | mwester | Otherwise one would be overwhelmed by gsmd and the state of OpenMoko! :D |
| 03:25.06 | sagacis | One step at a time |
| 03:25.29 | mwester | SpeedEvil: 8 seconds between last command the CFUN=1 in sagacis's log... |
| 03:26.17 | SpeedEvil | I mean delay before sending cfun - after powering up the modem |
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| 03:26.41 | mwester | http://cl1p.net/gsm.log/ |
| 03:27.01 | mwester | Where does the delay need to be inserted? I can add that... |
| 03:27.06 | SpeedEvil | this was just with my hacky awk gsmd |
| 03:27.17 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it. |
| 03:27.24 | SpeedEvil | When turned on. |
| 03:27.41 | SpeedEvil | The modem is off until it sees a positive going edge on power_on |
| 03:28.02 | SpeedEvil | then give it several seconds before bothering it with commands. |
| 03:28.06 | mwester | There's two seconds total from power up to first "AT" command being issued. |
| 03:28.08 | sagacis | That's not logged |
| 03:28.17 | mwester | Right, not logged. |
| 03:29.19 | mwester | sagacis: Edit the /etc/init.d/gsmd script, and change the sleep time after the "echo '1'" to something bigger - 5 or so... let's see what it does :) |
| 03:29.21 | sagacis | Also, we should recognize +EXT ERROR as a valid ERROR response and not continue. |
| 03:29.30 | sagacis | OK. Give me a few. |
| 03:30.23 | sagacis | What's GSM_RES? |
| 03:30.51 | sagacis | rebooting |
| 03:32.17 | mwester | GSM_RES is reset. It's disconnected on the BV4 versions. |
| 03:32.36 | sagacis | Ah. Gotcha |
| 03:32.46 | cesarb | mwester: the GSM modem doesn't actually turn off until you send it an AT@POFF |
| 03:33.14 | cesarb | mwester: so, even if the CPU crashes, it's still on |
| 03:33.22 | sagacis | This time, the cfun returned "ERROR" I'll clip it. |
| 03:33.43 | mwester | cesarb: That's interesting... and bad. |
| 03:33.52 | sagacis | http://cl1p.net/gsm.log2/ |
| 03:33.58 | mwester | A crashed phone will kill the battery quickly. |
| 03:34.50 | sagacis | gsmd is rather optimistic: After telling me "Radio power-up failed", it still tries to register on the network. :-) |
| 03:34.56 | mwester | sagacis: Add another few seconds... maybe it'll just respond "ER" or even just "E" :) |
| 03:35.10 | sagacis | If I wait 30 seconds, will it invert? |
| 03:35.12 | cesarb | mwester: not only that, the audio amp has exactly the same behaviour (won't turn off unless you set "Amp Mode" to "Off", or if you have a patch which is not in the kernel yet AFAIK it will turn off on a clean shutdown) |
| 03:35.30 | mwester | Hmm... |
| 03:35.48 | mwester | Is the patch in bugzilla? |
| 03:36.15 | sagacis | I've been popping the battery. That should work. |
| 03:36.26 | sagacis | Although my back clamshell is getting looser. |
| 03:36.53 | mwester | sagacis: the back of mine is actually seldom attached :) |
| 03:37.37 | sagacis | That would be safer, but I carry it to work most days. |
| 03:37.51 | sagacis | Of course, I don't use it much.... I carry a backup phone, too. |
| 03:38.05 | mwester | Duct tape will hold that back on, should it get too loose. :p |
| 03:38.35 | mwester | and WD-40 |
| 03:38.41 | sagacis | Yup. |
| 03:38.48 | sagacis | I could go the iPhone route and super-glue it. |
| 03:39.09 | mwester | If it moves, and it ain't supposed to, use the duct tape. If it doesn't move, but it's supposed to, use WD-40. Who needs toolboxes? |
| 03:39.41 | cesarb | mwester: yeah, it's in bugzilla |
| 03:40.29 | sagacis | this is odd: Stopping GSM daemon: stopped /usr/sbin/gsmd (pid 1117). -- sh: /usr/bin/cpp: not found --gsmd. (the dashes represent \n) |
| 03:40.31 | mwester | Ok. I have a note to go search for that. |
| 03:42.08 | technil | good luck bugchasers |
| 03:43.05 | cesarb | mwester: 781 |
| 03:46.02 | mwester | Interesting set of comments. And a significant power "suck" when the device is supposed to be off. |
| 03:46.19 | cesarb | Hm, I'm so far failing to find more information on google for "EXT ERROR"... only about "CME ERROR" |
| 03:46.36 | mwester | Yeah, google washed out for me too. |
| 03:46.48 | cesarb | mwester: disabling both the amp and the modem is enough to make it consume so little when powered off SpeedEvil couldn't measure with his rig |
| 03:47.44 | cesarb | mwester: the enfora enabler IIE docs (which tend to be quite close to what neo's modem uses, so close the "engineering mode" commands are the same) also doesn't seem to say anything about it |
| 03:49.16 | cesarb | Also, the "EXT: I" on the second log is a mistery too (it's visibly some extended information, and the real error is "ERROR") |
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| 03:51.49 | mwester | cesarb: So if we fix those two items alone, many of the ugly battery recovery episodes will just go away... |
| 03:52.00 | cesarb | mwester: google for 'ml_parse "ext: I"' returned one interesting result... a gsm log from laforge accidentally in the middle of a huge patch in 2006 |
| 03:52.06 | mwester | ...and I won't have to leave my neo on the umbilical cord overnight all the time... |
| 03:52.43 | sagacis | mwester: I leave it both night and day (two different chords) |
| 03:55.18 | bedboi | http://www.socialdailynews.com/diverse/not-animated.php <-- stupid brain |
| 03:55.44 | mwester | cesarb: do you know if anyone has done any work on the AT@POFF thing for gsmd? |
| 03:56.16 | cesarb | mwester: I think SpeedEvil played with echoing it in the initscript :D |
| 03:56.43 | sagacis | bedboi: Mine too http://www.pizdaus.com/pics/6I5muh2Keb4v.jpg |
| 03:56.46 | SpeedEvil | no - just echo - no script :) |
| 03:56.47 | mwester | That's kinda what I was thinking of doing as well... |
| 03:57.16 | cesarb | for crashes, the best way would be to have a watchdog, which would allow uboot to take over and reboot (linux can then get back to managing everything) |
| 03:58.03 | sagacis | How often do we see bad crashes? Usually, I've only seen process crashes. |
| 03:58.18 | mwester | That's a good idea. And even letting uboot take control for a few moments on poweroff to make sure it's all *really* powered off would be reasonable, I think. |
| 03:58.56 | mwester | sagacis: That's why I put that kernel patch together -- really bad crashes were rather frequent for me for a while. :) Now I only crash it once or twice a day. |
| 03:59.16 | cesarb | sagacis: could you try things with the "debugging patch" attached to bug 766 (or perhaps with all three)? that debugging patch will make things a lot less muddy... |
| 03:59.57 | mwester | cesarb: do those patches apply to the updated gmsd? Last time I tried, the code was very different in some of those places.. |
| 04:00.04 | cesarb | sagacis: both debugging patches shouldn't change anything on gsmd's behaviour (other than being more verbose); the middle patch actually fixes a bug |
| 04:00.09 | cesarb | mwester: dunno, didn't look |
| 04:00.31 | mwester | The commit comments imply that they fixed the bug you identified as well. |
| 04:00.47 | cesarb | mwester: I recall seeing changes in a completely different place for a very related bug (with user<->gsmd connections, while mine is for modem<->gsmd) |
| 04:01.06 | mwester | Ok, perhaps that was it. |
| 04:01.23 | mwester | But in any case, your patches wouldn't apply when I tried. :( |
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| 04:04.50 | cesarb | mwester: all three patches applied to me to latest svn |
| 04:05.07 | cesarb | mwester: but that's from my local copy of the patches, I'll check the copies at bugzilla |
| 04:05.11 | sagacis | OK, patch apply help. |
| 04:05.23 | sagacis | The patches are not from the root. They are from gsmd/src or somewhere |
| 04:06.55 | cesarb | yep, all three patches are identical to what's on bugzilla |
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| 04:07.10 | cesarb | sagacis: they are from gsmd's root |
| 04:07.41 | cesarb | sagacis: very easy to apply on a local overlay, just add to the SRC_URI ;-) |
| 04:07.51 | mwester | cesarb: but what's built in OE is SVN + a set of OE patches. |
| 04:07.59 | mwester | Did you check the OE patches? |
| 04:08.10 | cesarb | mwester: hm, forgot that :P |
| 04:08.28 | sagacis | the only oe patch I have is a makefile patch |
| 04:09.54 | mwester | 10 patches in mine. |
| 04:10.53 | mwester | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:11.59 | sagacis | Yup, me too. |
| 04:14.56 | cesarb | mwester: great, the very first patch of these shuffles the code to a completely different place :( |
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| 04:18.06 | cesarb | mwester: the new code doesn't even make sense in places |
| 04:18.25 | cesarb | for instance, in atcmd_submit there's a line "llist_empty(&g->pending_atcmds);" |
| 04:18.45 | cesarb | isn't llist_empty a function which returns whether the list is empty, and has NO side effects? |
| 04:19.48 | cesarb | In the original code that call was in the conditional of an if, which was part of the select() FD_WRITE logic |
| 04:23.42 | mwester | "statement has no effect" would be the diagnosis from a good static code analyzer. |
| 04:25.08 | sagacis | Well, the patch won't work for sure, according to the code I have |
| 04:28.14 | cesarb | mwester: statements without effect are often caused by C++-like abstraction levels, so even good static analyzers cannot warn of all of them |
| 04:28.39 | cesarb | mwester: and the bug I reported on bug 766 seems to have been fixed (but I cannot tell which patch fixed if) |
| 04:28.46 | cesarb | s/ if/ it/ |
| 04:28.58 | mwester | SpeedEvil: any tricks or advice for powering off the modem in the /etc/init.d/gsm script? |
| 04:29.02 | cesarb | echo -e 'O\nr' | libgsmd-tool -m shell doesn't make gsmd get completely confused anymore |
| 04:31.04 | cesarb | however, all these patches seem to add yet another buffering layer, which means that even if I moved the debug print to where the code now is (it's on atcmd_wake_queue instead of atcmd_select_cb now), it wouldn't be enough |
| 04:31.12 | sagacis | how about 'echo "AT@POFF" | libgsmd-tool -m atmcd' or something? |
| 04:31.25 | cesarb | the other debugging patch probably isn't needed anymore, the new layer won't lose the CR I hope |
| 04:32.09 | cesarb | hm, no, it can still lose the cr if the new buffer is full on a unlucky place |
| 04:32.36 | cesarb | sagacis: it'd only confuse gsmd, since the modem is going away... either gsmd itself should do it, or you should do it after killing gsmd |
| 04:32.54 | sagacis | Can you pipe to the device directly? |
| 04:32.58 | cesarb | sagacis: of course, you might not care about gsmd being confused at that time... |
| 04:33.27 | mwester | O |
| 04:33.32 | mwester | oops |
| 04:33.59 | mwester | I'll have to build some rig so I can measure the current on power-down, so I can see if these patches are working. |
| 04:34.10 | sagacis | great. Now that I've powered off the modem, how do I bring it back? |
| 04:34.18 | sagacis | Oh,yeah. Nevermind. I'm getting tired |
| 04:35.15 | cesarb | sagacis: just echo 1 to that power thingy on /sys |
| 04:35.22 | cesarb | sagacis: the init script is enough |
| 04:35.37 | sagacis | cesarb: Thanks. I realized what I was asking when I pressed <enter> |
| 04:36.22 | cesarb | sagacis: that power thingy on /sys is a lot like the neo's power button: press it to turn the modem on, but it doesn't turn the modem off (pretend for an instant neo's power button doesn't have the hold-five-seconds beahviour) |
| 04:36.24 | SpeedEvil | It's gotta be echo 1 - when the state of the power thingy is 0 |
| 04:36.39 | SpeedEvil | 0-1 transition is the only thing that does anything |
| 04:36.51 | sagacis | not so useful that way. |
| 04:36.55 | SpeedEvil | does a soft-reset of the modem |
| 04:37.20 | sagacis | Which is why we don't have the reset any more? |
| 04:37.28 | cesarb | sagacis: actually, it's very useful - you can turn the modem on! how would you use it if you couldn't turn it on? ;-) |
| 04:37.43 | sagacis | It's half of what we need. |
| 04:37.46 | SpeedEvil | I think reset went away as it's going away in 02 hardware |
| 04:38.07 | sagacis | OK, I had to gsmd stop/start twice to get it to come back. |
| 04:38.09 | SpeedEvil | If it's on, you just send at@poff to kill it |
| 04:38.15 | sagacis | after the @POFF |
| 04:38.30 | cesarb | sagacis: probably because the first start/stop echoed 0 to the file ;-) |
| 04:40.18 | sagacis | it looks like init.d/gsmd echos both 0 and 1 to the file to trigger it. |
| 04:40.33 | cesarb | actually, scratch that, BT has the wakeup problems too :D |
| 04:40.40 | sagacis | cesarb: I can't get BT working with my headset. |
| 04:40.55 | sagacis | The usb port has been pretty good though. |
| 04:41.18 | sagacis | I bet the GPS chip rocks! |
| 04:41.30 | mwester | Phhhhtttthhhtttt!!!! |
| 04:41.40 | cesarb | sagacis: ...with its OABI-and-good-luck-finding-it driver, I'd guess ;-) |
| 04:41.54 | mwester | Don't anyone get me started again... :) |
| 04:41.55 | SpeedEvil | the backlight works well. |
| 04:42.05 | sagacis | mwesterI was gonna go there |
| 04:42.07 | mwester | multi-level, even |
| 04:42.21 | sagacis | runs the battery down real good |
| 04:42.45 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: and the screen, and the touchscreen... but that's all the LCM, isn't it? so it only counts as one piece ;-) |
| 04:42.46 | sagacis | y'know, init.d/gsmd start does all the things gsmd stop does. start is really a restart. |
| 04:42.48 | mwester | Hmm... a dimmer for it would be nice. |
| 04:43.14 | sagacis | GUISettings has a dimmer |
| 04:43.19 | cesarb | so, we have USB and LCM working without any stress... |
| 04:43.19 | sagacis | or whatever that tool is called |
| 04:43.39 | mwester | sagacis: yes. It shouldn't be; that's just in there so that lazy people can type "gsmd start" instead of "gsmd restart". |
| 04:44.13 | sagacis | restart calls stop-start, which is really stop-stop-start |
| 04:44.23 | mwester | Silly, isn't it? |
| 04:44.37 | cesarb | mwester: no, the "restart-like" behaviour was added as part of voodoo debugging to make it work |
| 04:44.40 | sagacis | But, it has to do that, because the power switch only works when going from 0-1 |
| 04:44.51 | mwester | Actually, the "sleeps" and the diddling with the power on and reset should be done by the daemon, not the init script. |
| 04:45.06 | mwester | There are some nasty race conditions that are still present because of that. |
| 04:45.12 | cesarb | mwester: it was believed for a while that turning off and on the modem (yeah, I know that echoing 0 doesn't turn it off...) would cure all gsmd woes |
| 04:45.34 | cesarb | mwester: the sleeps are also "let's add some sleeps so it'll work" |
| 04:45.46 | cesarb | mwester: they even added echos to the non-connected reset line! |
| 04:45.52 | mwester | cesarb: Then I should just take that out, as self-appointed foster caretaker of the gsmd script. |
| 04:46.23 | cesarb | mwester: keep only the echo 1 to turn it on (which actually should be within gsmd itself...) |
| 04:46.40 | cesarb | (and in fact gsmd should only do it after being asked to! think airplanes) |
| 04:46.48 | mwester | Ooh. good point. |
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| 04:46.56 | sagacis | cesarb: You should keep the 0 if the echo 1 only works from 0 state. |
| 04:47.16 | cesarb | sagacis: good point |
| 04:47.37 | cesarb | sagacis: if it were within gsmd, it could simply read the file to check if it's on 0, and if not echo 0 and wait |
| 04:47.39 | SpeedEvil | Turning on the modem doesn't actually cause it to emit RF - only once you've done at+cfun |
| 04:47.53 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Gsmd]] |
| 04:47.54 | sagacis | right |
| 04:48.07 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: hm, good point... it's still very pointless to do so |
| 04:48.17 | SpeedEvil | cesarb: the touchscreen is noisy. |
| 04:48.18 | mwester | The kernel driver should do the 1->0->1 transistion as necessary. |
| 04:48.40 | sagacis | the touchscreen, or the sound attached to it? |
| 04:48.57 | sagacis | Wow, it squeals |
| 04:49.27 | mwester | Say what? |
| 04:49.31 | cesarb | mwester: no. that would no longer be a direct mapping to the GPIO pin |
| 04:49.43 | cesarb | mwester: which means it would be a completely different sysfs file |
| 04:49.59 | cesarb | mwester: much like the power_sequence one |
| 04:50.10 | cesarb | mwester: which does a complex dance when asked to power on |
| 04:50.20 | mwester | There's no point in there being a direct mapping, the kernel driver already diddles with the serial port switch and disables/enables the console driver, all from that same code. |
| 04:50.36 | mwester | Not enough. |
| 04:50.43 | mwester | It should have been done in the serial driver. |
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| 04:51.42 | mwester | I've been toying with moving the GSM power-up code into the serial driver for a while. It simplifies a lot, because there's way too much cross-referencing of each other's data. |
| 04:51.45 | cesarb | mwester: I meand the power_sequence thing (for the gps) |
| 04:51.55 | mwester | For the gps or gsm? |
| 04:51.56 | cesarb | s/meand/meant |
| 04:52.20 | cesarb | mwester: the gps has a power_sequence file instead of a simpler power_on, because its power sequencing requirements are finicky |
| 04:52.42 | mwester | Ah, ok - sorry, thought you meant the GSM stuff. |
| 04:53.25 | mwester | I don't know about the GPS, it doesn't work here. :( |
| 05:01.46 | sagacis | Most phones get their time/date from the signal, yes? |
| 05:02.22 | cesarb | sagacis: there are some annoying ones that don't |
| 05:02.38 | sagacis | besides the neo? |
| 05:03.10 | cesarb | sagacis: one of my relatives has an inexpensive one which doesn't. Another one has a normal one which does. And my razr does. |
| 05:03.24 | cesarb | sagacis: I've also seen a motorola (nextel probably) which didn't |
| 05:03.50 | cesarb | sagacis: the neo probably wouldn't need it, since it has the much more precise GPS signal (however, that means you need a geographical TZ database) |
| 05:04.27 | cesarb | (...or a cell provider/LAC<->TZ database, which should be much easier to make precise enough) |
| 05:04.28 | sagacis | And a gps driver. I'm looking for the AT command to get that information, or does it come from a header? |
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| 05:09.37 | cesarb | sagacis: I couldn't find an AT command to get it... however, it might be a cell broadcast |
| 05:11.58 | mwester | I though it was one of the unsolicited commands, actually... |
| 05:12.04 | mwester | I guess that would be a broadcast. |
| 05:12.38 | bluelightning | mwester: did you mean undocumented? |
| 05:12.44 | cesarb | btw, using the gsm tower time isn't always a good idea. it tends to be wrong by an hour for about a week around the time of a summer time change. |
| 05:13.20 | cesarb | (I always end up enabling auto-update to get the minutes correct, disabling it, and adjusting the hour manually) |
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| 05:13.39 | mwester | bluelightning: No, unsolicited -- that's a term used in libgsm source. |
| 05:13.50 | bluelightning | oh right |
| 05:14.28 | cesarb | ah, btw, the one phone which doesn't have auto-update for the time... doesn't have a RTC battery too! (remove the battery, and it'll ask you for the time next boot) |
| 05:16.17 | ljp | AT%CTZV=1 is what you want for unsolisited timezone and date info |
| 05:16.25 | cesarb | hm, there is an AT+CCLK on the gsm standards... but that's probably only for the modem's RTC |
| 05:16.49 | cesarb | ljp: cool, does it work on the neo? |
| 05:17.29 | sagacis | ljp Thanks! |
| 05:17.41 | sagacis | Yes |
| 05:17.50 | sagacis | I just called it on the neo and got an OK |
| 05:18.03 | sagacis | Now, I just wait to get the timezone info, I guess |
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| 05:18.42 | ljp | not sure if it works, i dont htink my gsm privider sends that info. my boss's is supposed to |
| 05:19.02 | ljp | i might if I was at my desk |
| 05:19.30 | sagacis | It's in the gsm.log, so we're already calling it. |
| 05:19.41 | ljp | there is also a gsm spec for time zone stuff |
| 05:27.23 | sagacis | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:27.27 | sagacis | From the spec |
| 05:28.16 | sagacis | http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/html-info/0242.htm is the timezone spec |
| 05:31.51 | sagacis | g'night. |
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| 06:47.53 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[GSM02.07]] |
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| 07:01.48 | Linux_Galore | whats the easiest way to recover a USB hardisks partition table, this is the first time I have seen one break |
| 07:02.15 | Linux_Galore | there is one partition on the hardisk |
| 07:07.45 | bedboi | actually it is quite common |
| 07:13.51 | cesarb | Linux_Galore: testdisk and (if it doesn't work) photorec |
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| 07:17.27 | Linux_Galore | yeah Im installing testdisk now |
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| 08:47.42 | nobody96 | moin |
| 08:47.54 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:BuiltInScriptingLanguage]] |
| 08:48.10 | nobody96 | my mokomakefile is deny building again |
| 08:48.30 | nobody96 | qemu stopps with unable to find a register to spill in class `GENERAL_REGS' |
| 08:48.46 | nobody96 | or more detailed http://rafb.net/p/YINSpO79.html |
| 08:48.54 | nobody96 | has anyone encounterd this error before? |
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| 08:57.04 | nobody96 | never mind, i found excatly the same error here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU |
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| 09:38.38 | ifchinscouldkill | is anyone able to run the 29th build from buildhost.automated.it in qemo? |
| 09:38.38 | aloril | ifchinscouldkill: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
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| 10:23.57 | Cat3b | k |
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| 10:42.38 | winux | if i wanna reinstall openmoko OS in neo1973, should i buy the advanced kit ,? is the base kit enough? |
| 10:42.38 | aloril | winux: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 10:45.31 | mjr | if you don't know that you need the advanced kit, you don't |
| 10:45.53 | guaqua | winux: you don't need the advanced kit |
| 10:46.11 | guaqua | and if you do, find someone near you who has it to unbrick the phone if you managed to do that |
| 10:46.33 | ifchinscouldkill | wow how come qtopia is so fast in qemu? |
| 10:48.13 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[FreeBSD]] [[Talk:FreeBSD]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[IPhone/it]] |
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| 11:02.27 | PBeck | hi |
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| 11:08.21 | IfChinsCouldKill | how often does the buildhost.automated.it update the openmoko image? |
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| 11:48.00 | ScaredyCat | IfChinsCouldKill: I update most days that there have been changes |
| 11:48.19 | ScaredyCat | s/update/update it/ |
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| 11:56.32 | IfChinsCouldKill | Ah ok. The 29th build doesn't boot in qemu so I was curious when to expect the next build ;) |
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| 12:00.02 | ScaredyCat | I'll take a look at it, jsut flashing it to my neo |
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| 12:09.03 | ScaredyCat | yup - seems dbus changes broke it |
| 12:09.10 | ScaredyCat | will build a new one |
| 12:09.28 | IfChinsCouldKill | cool thanks |
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| 12:46.26 | riot | gah, no... Evolution SUCKS. |
| 12:46.46 | riot | wonderful, that apt-get nowadays is able to autoremove dependencies! |
| 12:46.47 | mmazur | You creationist? |
| 12:47.22 | riot | haha, loL! no.. i love mutts. |
| 12:47.39 | riot | .oO( now it becomes weird ) |
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| 12:47.54 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Alessandro]] |
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| 13:08.21 | Kero | now with gtk2 bindings available! http://chmeee.dyndns.org/om/ruby/feed |
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| 13:09.33 | Kero | as well as the scripts and settings that I used to compile it all. |
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| 13:27.36 | nox-Hand | How long does 2007.2 take to boot? :) |
| 13:28.50 | Kero | long :) You should see progress, most of the time, tho. |
| 13:29.59 | nox-Hand | Kero: Haha, I was wondering because I dont have a Moko yet |
| 13:30.03 | nox-Hand | Waiting for the GTA02 |
| 13:30.30 | nox-Hand | How responsive is it in the real Neo1973? |
| 13:30.38 | nox-Hand | Using over qemu and pretty darn slow :P |
| 13:32.12 | Kero | oh, quicker on the real Neo. |
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| 13:32.38 | nox-Hand | A lot? |
| 13:32.44 | nox-Hand | It's VERY laggy ;) |
| 13:33.30 | Kero | depends on the HW you run qemu on :) |
| 13:33.47 | Kero | starting applications is slowish |
| 13:33.51 | nox-Hand | 1.66ghz Core 2 Duo, 1gb ram, Linux |
| 13:33.56 | nox-Hand | On the NEo? |
| 13:34.01 | Kero | yeah |
| 13:34.04 | pH5 | using the moko-gtk-theme over the old pixmap theme helps a lot |
| 13:34.14 | Kero | gtk responds quickly enough. |
| 13:34.35 | nox-Hand | I am looking to port Sonata MPD client to the Moko =) |
| 13:34.36 | Kero | I have the feeling quite a few stylus-clicks disappear (dspite the feedback sound) |
| 13:34.51 | nox-Hand | No idea how yet |
| 13:34.55 | Kero | gta02 will have a faster CPU for you :) |
| 13:34.55 | nox-Hand | But I want to try =D |
| 13:35.00 | nox-Hand | Yup |
| 13:35.12 | nox-Hand | Me and money is sorta making me =( |
| 13:35.23 | Kero | I cross-compiled Ruby, using the OE/OM environment |
| 13:35.56 | Kero | easy enough (as cross compiling goes...) |
| 13:36.24 | nox-Hand | Isn't PyGTK already on the Moko? |
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| 13:38.58 | pH5 | ~botmail zecke how about http://en.pastebin.ca/raw/720569 and http://en.pastebin.ca/raw/720570 for openmoko-feedreader2, first one is to fix the build on gcc 4.2 |
| 13:40.15 | Kero | nox-Hand: probably. I prefer Ruby. the point in this case was, porting isn't too hard :) |
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| 14:40.01 | joolz | good afternoon |
| 14:40.09 | joolz | is this a developers-only channel? |
| 14:40.09 | aloril | joolz: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 14:40.20 | joolz | hehe |
| 14:40.23 | joolz | will do |
| 14:40.34 | aloril | developers and general talk |
| 14:40.42 | joolz | ok |
| 14:40.53 | joolz | i do development, though mainly db work |
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| 14:41.13 | sagacis|away | G'morning. |
| 14:41.23 | joolz | i'm certainly no openmoko devver, but i'm very interested in neo / openmoko as a consumer |
| 14:44.03 | sagacis | joolz: We're not really to the consumer level yet. |
| 14:45.34 | sagacis | Shouldn't neod be on the dbus? |
| 14:45.59 | SpeedEvil | It's going to be at the very least several months before Openmoko is user ready, for even the most uncritical of users. |
| 14:46.42 | SpeedEvil | We of course will answer sane questions. |
| 14:47.15 | SpeedEvil | But most user questions - other than on the hardware are simply 'it's not implemented yet, and no there isn't a timescale'. |
| 14:47.33 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Paulzag]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Sydney]] |
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| 14:52.32 | sagacis | oops |
| 14:52.53 | sagacis | I made the vibrator pulse... forever. Apparently I can write an infinite loop. :( |
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| 15:16.00 | DukeOfURL | good morning everyone. |
| 15:16.12 | sagacis | DukeOfURL: howdy |
| 15:17.15 | DukeOfURL | I don't have /var/lib/dbus/machine-id in my rootfs, and this means dbus-uuidgen wasn't run. Does anyone know about this? |
| 15:17.36 | DukeOfURL | dbus-uuidgen isn't in rootfs either |
| 15:22.03 | DukeOfURL | however, dbus-uuidgen is in ./build/tmp/staging/i686-linux/bin/dbus-uuidgen on the development system |
| 15:24.34 | sagacis | Sorry. I'm new to dbus. I'll take a look at my neo when boot completes. |
| 15:25.46 | sagacis | I have machine-id on the neo |
| 15:26.29 | DukeOfURL | for some reason the 'make openmoko-devel-image' isn't including dbug-uuidgen |
| 15:26.52 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789 (n=bmk789@74-132-81-162.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 15:27.26 | sagacis | That seems like an oversight. |
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| 15:29.17 | DukeOfURL | i get these during the build: ERROR: QA issue: libdbus-1.la failed sanity test (reference to workdir or installed) |
| 15:29.41 | sagacis | I get so many QA errors. I haven't looked for libdbus errors. |
| 15:31.23 | DukeOfURL | when I 'make rebuild-package-dbus' I get: NOTE: the following files were installed but not shipped in any package: |
| 15:31.33 | DukeOfURL | NOTE: /usr/bin/dbus-daemon |
| 15:31.44 | DukeOfURL | NOTE: /usr/bin/dbus-uuidgen |
| 15:32.02 | DukeOfURL | ? |
| 15:34.35 | sagacis | DukeOfURL: http://cl1p.net/dbus.build.log/ |
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| 15:37.23 | DukeOfURL | I don't have: Applying patch 'fix-waitpid.patch' |
| 15:39.42 | sagacis | I've done nothing more than "make update" |
| 15:39.47 | sagacis | for dbus, anyway |
| 15:41.22 | DukeOfURL | my log says dbus-1.0.2-r5 while yours says dbus-1.0.2-r4. Does that mean you don't have the latest stuff? |
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| 15:42.12 | sagacis | Maybe it was updated since Friday (which was my last update, I think) |
| 15:42.42 | sagacis | the 29th |
| 15:44.38 | DukeOfURL | I have ./openembedded/packages/dbus/dbus-1.0.2/fix-waitpid.patch, but it isn't applied in the rebuild-package-dbus |
| 15:45.29 | DukeOfURL | the patch adds: signal(SIGCHLD, SIG_DFL); |
| 15:46.00 | sagacis | That deosn't sound like much |
| 15:49.26 | DukeOfURL | The problem is at line 48: http://pastebin.org/3778 |
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| 15:52.11 | DukeOfURL | I tried a clean build (rm -rf *) but here were errors in qemu |
| 15:52.54 | jorgenpt | Is there an uboo that removes the 'press aux every x seconds' need? |
| 15:52.57 | jorgenpt | s/uboo/uboot/ |
| 15:52.59 | jorgenpt | While flashing. :-) |
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| 16:00.55 | JoSch_ | Hi! I think I found a bug in the perl install - could somebody confirm this by running a little perl script (three lines) I wrote to test this issue? |
| 16:00.55 | aloril | JoSch_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
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| 16:07.30 | hhf423 | jorgenpt: there is a workaround |
| 16:08.08 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=cb22@dsl-245-142-242.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 16:08.51 | josch | hhf423: can you explain a little further? |
| 16:08.59 | hhf423 | jorgenpt: while in uboot, connect to uboot and then do "setenv boot_menu_timeout 65000" and then "saveenv" |
| 16:09.19 | hhf423 | then your uboot does not timeout |
| 16:09.23 | josch | hhf423: a sry thought you meant my issue ^^ |
| 16:10.16 | hhf423 | josch: is perl in rootfs? I am running qtopia at the moment |
| 16:11.59 | josch | hhf423: I'm currently not running openmoko since I do not have a neo but fgau, Marcel_M and thomasg from #neo1973-germany tested a perl script of mine (mokopedia if you read about it) and found out that the Encoding.pm module was not working - all the files seemed to be in the wrong place |
| 16:13.39 | hhf423 | root@fic-gta01:~$ perl |
| 16:13.41 | hhf423 | -sh: perl: not found |
| 16:13.47 | josch | :-/ |
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| 16:15.57 | *** part/#openmoko markschewe (n=mark@ulmg-590f6da3.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 16:18.18 | hhf423 | I'll look at openmoko again if there is progress again. specifically gsmd and gps. |
| 16:18.24 | ScaredyCat | IfChinsCouldKill: just uploading the new qtopia image ... seems to be working properly |
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| 16:18.56 | hhf423 | Chins? |
| 16:19.57 | hhf423 | ScaredyCat: the 29.09. qt image works fine for me, except gprs which I can not seem to be able to start. and there is no browser yet |
| 16:20.04 | jorgenpt | Was there a "handsfree" headset with the neo? |
| 16:20.27 | ScaredyCat | mmmm |
| 16:20.45 | ScaredyCat | it failed for me with sme dbus erroring... |
| 16:20.47 | daMaestro | it's called a bluetooth headset (the neo doesn't ship with one, no) |
| 16:21.00 | *** part/#openmoko josch (n=josch@p54B6E3CC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:21.19 | jorgenpt | I mean one that's not wireless |
| 16:21.28 | ScaredyCat | is bt working on that hhf423? |
| 16:21.45 | jorgenpt | I have a bluetooth headset (can't just find the damn thing), so I'm trying to find the wired one shipped with the Neo, given there is one. |
| 16:22.05 | daMaestro | jorgenpt, there is a headset that was shipped with the neo |
| 16:22.09 | hhf423 | ScaredyCat: not sure i tried bt |
| 16:22.29 | hhf423 | jorgenpt: yes, there was a wired handsfree with the neo |
| 16:22.34 | daMaestro | http://damaestro.us/photography/00057.jpg/image_view_fullscreen |
| 16:22.41 | jorgenpt | Hrm. |
| 16:22.55 | jorgenpt | Thanks, daMaestro |
| 16:23.27 | hhf423 | ScaredyCat: ok, with the 29.09 it says "bt not available" |
| 16:23.35 | *** part/#openmoko sagacis (n=mark@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) |
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| 16:24.58 | ScaredyCat | k, same for 30th |
| 16:34.07 | *** part/#openmoko bmk789 (n=bmk789@74-132-81-162.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
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| 16:38.49 | jorgenpt | hm. does qtopia-4.3.0-preview-neo-flash work with audio? |
| 16:38.57 | jorgenpt | Tried it, couldn't get any audio neither on phone or headset |
| 16:40.24 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=fredsiba@p54953220.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:40.54 | sagacis | jorgenpt: You'll have to set the alsa state. for headset: 'alsactl -f /etc/gsmhandset.state restore' |
| 16:46.28 | ScaredyCat | jorgenpt: if you use my images the gsmhandset state is copied as defult |
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| 16:47.28 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 16:48.14 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[User_talk:Brettb]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_London]] [[User:Mark]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Ulm]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
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| 16:57.53 | jorgenpt | ScaredyCat: Neato, where can I find those? |
| 16:58.58 | ScaredyCat | http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ |
| 17:00.37 | jorgenpt | Only rootfs updates? |
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| 17:02.03 | ScaredyCat | there's a kernel update there.. but openmoko and qtopia share the same kernel |
| 17:02.26 | jorgenpt | ok |
| 17:02.37 | ScaredyCat | http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-r2-fic-gta01.bin |
| 17:02.42 | *** part/#openmoko wasabi (n=wasabi@ubuntu/member/wasabi) |
| 17:04.41 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: do you know of a qtopia ipkg feed? |
| 17:04.59 | viq | Any OpenMoko-in-qemu-on-BSD people here? |
| 17:05.17 | ScaredyCat | for qtopia apps LarstiQ? |
| 17:05.41 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: for qtopia-phone mostly |
| 17:06.19 | ScaredyCat | you can update qtopia-phone from my repo... |
| 17:06.40 | ScaredyCat | just give me a little while to up new packages |
| 17:07.04 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: sure, no problem :) |
| 17:07.05 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@84.90.165.129) |
| 17:08.02 | ScaredyCat | i wouldn't hover... Im on a horribly slow connection here :( |
| 17:08.34 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: oh, I've got qt-designer acting up on me to keep me busy, no worries |
| 17:08.48 | ScaredyCat | hehe |
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| 17:13.23 | cb22 | viq, Maledictus is one |
| 17:13.42 | cb22 | does anyone know of a good, supported under linux, usb tv in or out |
| 17:13.47 | cb22 | that could work on the neo... |
| 17:14.03 | SpeedEvil | DVB 1.1 cards are not uncommon. |
| 17:14.13 | SpeedEvil | Composite in 1.1 or out cards are not common. |
| 17:14.46 | cb22 | SpeedEvil, no common or not uncommon? |
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| 17:15.21 | SpeedEvil | not common. |
| 17:15.33 | cb22 | :/ |
| 17:15.33 | SpeedEvil | I haven't in fact seen any - and I've been looking. |
| 17:15.36 | viq | cb22: hm, yes, I will need to poke him. A quick attempt at following the qemu instructions from wiki on OpenBSD failed. |
| 17:16.14 | cb22 | specifically, http://www.videohelp.com/capturecards?CaptureCard=&videoin=1&searchconnection=USB1&price=50&orderby=Name&hits=50&Submit=Search&Search=Search |
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| 17:24.18 | DukeOfURL | cb22: I have a myTV.PVR on my Mac Powerbook, but I don't use it because the Mac gets too hot |
| 17:24.31 | DukeOfURL | so it really hits the processor |
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| 17:45.52 | Ghiottone | hello |
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| 18:01.01 | sagacis | Ghiottone: Heya |
| 18:01.16 | sagacis | Ghiottone: I tried to update from your server yesterday, but got no response. |
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| 18:13.41 | sagacis | Maybe I'm a wimp, but I really enjoy when modern source code editors tell me about likely syntax errors before I try to compile. What editor |
| 18:13.54 | sagacis | What source editors are being used among this group? |
| 18:14.21 | Aria | I'm a vi fan |
| 18:14.51 | mmazur | groupie |
| 18:14.53 | mmazur | Same here. |
| 18:14.58 | sagacis | Takes too much effort. No highlighting, indenting, syntax checking, etc. |
| 18:15.15 | DukeOfURL | try vim |
| 18:15.21 | sagacis | The editor should be able to tell me BEFORE I compile if I'm going to make a stupid mistake. |
| 18:15.37 | Aria | I just prefer to not make stupid mistakes. |
| 18:15.38 | sagacis | I long for auto-complete too, but that's because I'm lazy. |
| 18:15.50 | Aria | And I finally beat my lazy out. |
| 18:15.50 | sagacis | Aria: I'm doomed. :( |
| 18:16.06 | Aria | (besides, ruby is hard to parse. vim just fucked up the highlighting most of the time) |
| 18:16.11 | Aria | (So I went back to vi) |
| 18:16.22 | sagacis | It saves a ton of searching through the codebase to find the header file listing the correct arguments to some arcane library call. |
| 18:17.12 | sagacis | I"m all about speed, with my severely limited hacking time. |
| 18:18.22 | mmazur | *nothing* |
| 18:18.33 | sagacis | mmazur: spe? |
| 18:18.40 | mmazur | It's either crap, doesn't have vi-mode or both. |
| 18:19.21 | mmazur | sagacis, most likely no vim-mode. |
| 18:19.59 | sagacis | I'll look. I have it up right now. |
| 18:20.14 | sagacis | I don't use vim mode. I lost it writing for other platforms for the last many many years. |
| 18:21.44 | lostgeek | sagacis: you want something like eclipse. eclipse for java has everything you could possibly want. dont know if the eclipse plugin for your language is as good as the standard one for java |
| 18:22.08 | mmazur | Eclipse doesn't have usable vim mode :( |
| 18:23.27 | lostgeek | what about this? http://www.eclipse-plugins.info/eclipse/rating_details_plugin.jsp?plugin_id=331 |
| 18:23.40 | sagacis | lostgeek: eclipse is too heavy for what I want. |
| 18:24.14 | mmazur | lostgeek, if it's the plugin I'm thinking of, it's just an embedded vim, which means no eclipse features like completion. |
| 18:24.31 | sagacis | I"m using gedit since it's installed and does much of what I want. Eclipse does pretty much everything I want, but needs a project/solution file to make it happen. |
| 18:24.45 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis_ (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 18:24.55 | mmazur | sagacis, ah, wait, that's the commercial plugin. |
| 18:25.15 | mmazur | sagacis, who knows, maybe it's usable. |
| 18:25.16 | sagacis | emacs and vi require obtuse keyboard commands (which are OK if you take the time to learn them). vim gives menus for the commands, but isn't very integrated |
| 18:25.52 | sagacis | I'm down to adding external commands to gedit, but that's a pain. I can barely get bitbake and quilt to play nice in the shell. Doing it in another environment is a time sink for time I don't want to spend. |
| 18:26.17 | sagacis | It's about removing barriers for capable people to contribute to the project. |
| 18:27.01 | sagacis | I spend > 90% of my time cycling between three different terminals, using the command backlog to build and update just to test my latest code change. |
| 18:27.59 | sagacis | Because of thin documentation, I have to poke stuff and see how it works, which expands my development time unnecessarily with numerous iterations. |
| 18:28.12 | Aria | Heh. Bitbake is one hell of a barrier. |
| 18:28.18 | Aria | The damn thing is nearly opaque. |
| 18:28.52 | *** join/#openmoko _kaiser_ (n=kaiser@157-236-210-63-arpa.cust.cinci.current.net) |
| 18:28.56 | mmazur | Bitbake is that monstrosity used by moko? |
| 18:28.57 | sagacis | I imagine everyone working on this project has developed a collection of scripts and shell routines to get around this stuff. It's sad that effort is being duplicated 100 times for each person. |
| 18:29.04 | Aria | mmazur: Yep. |
| 18:29.05 | sagacis | mmazur: Yes. |
| 18:29.15 | Aria | Heh. I haven't even got OE to build yet. |
| 18:29.25 | sagacis | mokomakefile saves the day |
| 18:29.30 | nbd | my build breaks in a different way every time i try a new version |
| 18:29.32 | Aria | Heh, that failed too. |
| 18:29.37 | sagacis | heh |
| 18:29.39 | Aria | I gave up and I'm trying to just get our cross-compiler working on our distro. |
| 18:29.42 | nbd | i've never had a single build that ran through from beginning to end |
| 18:29.52 | DukeOfURL | has anyone hit the qemu/syscall.c errors yet? |
| 18:29.53 | sagacis | nbd: cron job |
| 18:29.53 | Aria | Then I'll use the ipk files and build a root, see if I can't build from source that way. |
| 18:30.02 | Aria | And skip rebuilding the bazillion tools I already have installed. |
| 18:30.08 | sagacis | I gave up on qemu |
| 18:30.11 | mmazur | And why is moko using bitbake and why wasn't it changed? |
| 18:30.21 | sagacis | mmazur: OE uses bitbake |
| 18:30.27 | Aria | bitbake? Because they imported OE |
| 18:30.28 | Aria | And OE uses it. |
| 18:30.32 | DukeOfURL | is there a way to remove qemu? |
| 18:30.38 | Ghiottone | back |
| 18:30.40 | Aria | And has a build system that makes Debian's or PLD's look Really Effin Simple |
| 18:31.02 | Ghiottone | sagacis, yes it seems that my hosting provider is having some maintainance work |
| 18:31.09 | Aria | (I quit on bitbake when perl failed to compile. I said "perl-native? WTH. I /have/ that. This is insane.") |
| 18:31.12 | sagacis | Ghiottone: Just my like |
| 18:31.17 | sagacis | s/like/luck/ |
| 18:31.26 | Ghiottone | sagacis, :) |
| 18:31.31 | mmazur | Sounds like a promising technology. |
| 18:31.40 | mmazur | And the OE guys are doing something about it, right? |
| 18:31.44 | Aria | Haha. |
| 18:31.46 | Ghiottone | sagacis, if you need something I can't send you the package directly |
| 18:32.18 | sagacis | Ghiottone: Nah, I was trying to get SMSTool and GUISettings. I got the py code elsewhere. |
| 18:32.25 | Aria | mmazur: Let's get pld's cross-compiler working with gcc 4.1 or 4.2 and then just make non-bitbake PLD-style package-based (Rather than image-based) builds. |
| 18:32.26 | sagacis | The wiki page, I think |
| 18:32.59 | sagacis | Aria: The bitbake builds ipk files, images and rootfs. |
| 18:33.06 | sagacis | and .tar if you want |
| 18:33.10 | Aria | sagacis: I know. I'd love to be rid of that. |
| 18:33.24 | sagacis | it's everything you could want, and so much more |
| 18:33.36 | *** join/#openmoko so_solid_moo (n=moo@barney.alcoholicsunanimous.com) |
| 18:33.45 | Ghiottone | sagacis, the package for settingsgui include a nice icon for the application list |
| 18:34.08 | Aria | Heh, 'cept the having to build for three days to compile one lousy change. |
| 18:34.45 | mmazur | I don't believe you. It can't be *that* bad. |
| 18:34.53 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 18:35.04 | Ghiottone | I'm having problems with building gcc |
| 18:35.13 | Ghiottone | is anyone else experiencing it? |
| 18:35.30 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@foraker.freelock.com) |
| 18:35.33 | sagacis | Ghiottone: Yeah, I just wanted dbus examples. Turns out neod isn't on the dbus, so it didn't matter. |
| 18:35.41 | sagacis | I had to learn quilt and bitbake instead |
| 18:35.56 | *** join/#openmoko buzb (n=b@cpe-76-174-28-78.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 18:36.00 | sagacis | Aria: No, it doesn't rebuild all. |
| 18:36.14 | Aria | sagacis: No, but you have to build all to start. |
| 18:36.17 | Ghiottone | neod not on dbus? |
| 18:36.22 | Aria | (And I'm used to the rigor I can apply with RPMs.) |
| 18:36.22 | sagacis | to make one lousy change (which I have to redo over and over since I can't seem to match braces) only takes about a minute |
| 18:36.41 | sagacis | You have to build all once. |
| 18:36.43 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 18:36.48 | Ghiottone | what is quilt for? |
| 18:37.04 | sagacis | quilt manages patches (get it.... quilt is made of patches...) |
| 18:37.05 | Aria | Yeah, and there's no point in that. I have the tools it's building. It's a huge barrier. (wouldn't be so bad if the build didn't fail all the time) |
| 18:37.41 | sagacis | Aria: Yes. The philosophy is that everything should be from scratch in the protected user folder. |
| 18:37.53 | Aria | sagacis: Yeah. Exactly. Fuck that. |
| 18:37.57 | sagacis | Most of the build failures I saw were due to a source repository not being available. |
| 18:38.01 | *** join/#openmoko __kaiser__ (n=kaiser@157-236-210-63-arpa.cust.cinci.current.net) |
| 18:38.23 | sagacis | Maybe I should backup my build cache in case there's a problem |
| 18:38.37 | Aria | HEhe. |
| 18:38.39 | sagacis | I have a sysfs question. Any takers? |
| 18:38.43 | Aria | P'raps |
| 18:39.28 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@TheWide.ubyt.sdjls.uniba.sk) |
| 18:39.31 | mmp | join #gpe-project |
| 18:39.33 | mmp | sorry:) |
| 18:39.40 | mmp | missed the slash:) |
| 18:39.52 | viq | The Slash! |
| 18:39.57 | sagacis | In neod, i'm trying to bump the vibrator for 25 ms on each keypress. I've tried a few things, but had no luck... |
| 18:40.29 | Aria | What sort of problem? |
| 18:40.33 | sagacis | echo 1 > gta-01:vibrator/brightness; usleep(25) ; echo 0 > brightness... |
| 18:40.57 | Mek | hmm... I don't seem to be able to commit to my projects.openmoko.org projects svn server... |
| 18:41.05 | sagacis | that basic thing works from the command line, but neod gets back to "0" before the rootfs change makes it to the hardware |
| 18:41.31 | Aria | You realize that usleep is usec, not ms, right? |
| 18:41.48 | sagacis | usec != ms? |
| 18:41.50 | *** join/#openmoko AntonTakk (i=500@poolofdespair.net) |
| 18:41.56 | Aria | Right. usec = 1000 ms |
| 18:41.57 | Aria | er. |
| 18:42.01 | Aria | ms = 1000 usec |
| 18:42.16 | sagacis | no, that's nanoseconds |
| 18:42.23 | Aria | No, that's even less. |
| 18:42.26 | Aria | ns, us, ms |
| 18:42.31 | Aria | nano, miro, milli |
| 18:42.37 | Aria | er.. micro |
| 18:42.47 | sagacis | "The usleep() function shall cause the calling thread to be suspended from execution until either the number of realtime microseconds specified by the argument useconds has elapsed " ? |
| 18:42.48 | mmazur | usleep is for nano |
| 18:43.07 | mmazur | Oh, micro. |
| 18:43.07 | mmazur | But not mili. |
| 18:43.17 | Aria | Right. |
| 18:43.32 | sagacis | Oh, righ! |
| 18:43.48 | sagacis | Obviously, usleep is for microseconds! |
| 18:43.57 | Aria | Single instructions take ns or so. A context switch takes a microsecond or so, depending on hardware; You want ms, which is where human-perception starts |
| 18:44.06 | Vegar | µsleep |
| 18:44.09 | sagacis | I've been thinking micro=milli |
| 18:44.11 | sagacis | Right. |
| 18:44.27 | sagacis | I think I need hsleep(8) or so. |
| 18:45.04 | mmazur | :) |
| 18:45.19 | Vegar | usleep(25000) |
| 18:45.19 | *** join/#openmoko kaiser (n=kaiser@157-236-210-63-arpa.cust.cinci.current.net) |
| 18:45.46 | sagacis | Yup, usleep(ms_duration * 1000); |
| 18:45.56 | *** join/#openmoko __kaiser__ (n=kaiser@157-236-210-63-arpa.cust.cinci.current.net) |
| 18:46.08 | Vegar | why would you need to vibrate for 25 ms? |
| 18:46.25 | Vegar | vibrate on touch? |
| 18:46.38 | sagacis | yup. Force feedback. |
| 18:46.49 | Vegar | tactile thing? |
| 18:46.51 | Vegar | forgot the word |
| 18:46.59 | sagacis | yup. Tactile thing. |
| 18:47.22 | Vegar | would it be possible to tell the vibrator to vibrate one pulse? |
| 18:47.25 | sagacis | Somebody else put in the wiki before I did... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List#Tactile_feedback_via_buzzer |
| 18:47.50 | sagacis | Vegar: Perhaps, but I couldn't feel it for less than 25 ms on. (25000 us) |
| 18:48.02 | Vegar | ok |
| 18:48.24 | sagacis | It's still really subtle |
| 18:48.34 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FIC/pt]] |
| 18:49.00 | *** part/#openmoko buzb (n=b@cpe-76-174-28-78.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 18:50.57 | *** join/#openmoko kW (n=kwkw@41.224.244.246) |
| 18:51.53 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=fredsiba@p54950C84.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:52.09 | sagacis | you can try with 'echo "timer" > /sys/class/leds/gta01:vibrator/trigger; echo "25" > /sys/class/leds/gta01:vibrator/delay_on; echo "500" > /sys/class/leds/gta01:vibrator/delay_off |
| 18:52.27 | ScaredyCat | LarstiQ: done |
| 18:52.58 | sagacis | you'll need 'echo "none" > /sys/class/leds/gta01:vibrator/trigger' to stop it |
| 18:55.00 | sagacis | Yay! |
| 18:55.08 | sagacis | Now, to make it configurable |
| 18:56.00 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 18:56.00 | sgacais | hey! |
| 18:59.29 | cb22 | sagacis, i suppose, adding on that, one could impliment haptic style feedback for music |
| 18:59.35 | cb22 | a la motorola e398 |
| 19:00.12 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@65.95.1.79) |
| 19:00.22 | sagacis | cb22: It's a very ineffective subwoofer ;-) |
| 19:00.30 | cb22 | heh |
| 19:00.33 | cb22 | but its still cool! |
| 19:00.35 | sagacis | I think it could be done OK. |
| 19:00.39 | *** join/#openmoko musekinin__ (n=musekini@dslb-084-058-125-024.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:00.40 | sagacis | IT's great for ringtones |
| 19:01.34 | cb22 | and not have to wait forever |
| 19:03.50 | *** join/#openmoko musekinin (n=musekini@dslb-084-058-125-024.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:06.18 | *** join/#openmoko bmidgley2 (n=brad@c-24-2-92-215.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:06.28 | *** join/#openmoko musekinin (n=musekini@dslb-084-058-125-024.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:07.16 | sagacis | Now, I have it working, but I added a sleep to the neod. Sleeps are bad, generally speaking. Any workaround ideas? |
| 19:08.02 | mmazur | I like my sleeps. |
| 19:08.12 | cb22 | me too |
| 19:08.37 | Mek | I think sleep is overrated |
| 19:09.11 | cb22 | oh great, here comes one of those 'powersleeper' types |
| 19:09.38 | ljp | sleep is overrated |
| 19:09.43 | sagacis | where are gconf files? |
| 19:09.54 | Mek | nah, not really... more a "ow, it is getting light already, perhaps I should get some sleep..." type... |
| 19:10.04 | sagacis | nm |
| 19:10.59 | Mek | hmm... it only took nearly two weeks before my projects.openmoko.org project was approved, quite a bit more than the 72 hours the site mentioned :P |
| 19:11.22 | cb22 | Mek, two weeks? i guess i was lucky |
| 19:11.24 | cb22 | mine only took 1 |
| 19:11.28 | cjb_ie | 72 working hours maybe :-) |
| 19:11.36 | sagacis | Well, not in a ROW! |
| 19:11.59 | cjb_ie | 72 hours at 8 hours per day... 9 days ... at 5 days per week is nearly two weeks |
| 19:12.13 | Mek | :) |
| 19:14.58 | Vegar | sagacis: where's the source for neod? |
| 19:15.19 | sagacis | That's a loaded question. Using bitbake? |
| 19:15.27 | Vegar | nope |
| 19:15.34 | Vegar | using nothing ATM |
| 19:15.56 | Vegar | just wanted to have a quick look at it to help answer your sleep-question |
| 19:16.20 | sagacis | Ah. My code won't be in neod yet... |
| 19:16.42 | Vegar | no, I just wanted to know how it works |
| 19:17.12 | sagacis | Hmm... the src_uri isn't listed. It should be in OE |
| 19:17.52 | Vegar | http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/src/ |
| 19:17.54 | Vegar | is that it? |
| 19:17.54 | sagacis | it's under packages/openmoko2 or so. I'm tryingn to look |
| 19:18.04 | sagacis | That's outdated |
| 19:18.13 | sagacis | That's wehre I was working, and couldn't get it to work |
| 19:18.20 | sagacis | It should be whacked, I think |
| 19:18.36 | sagacis | what's the revision for that directory? |
| 19:19.13 | Vegar | 3059 |
| 19:19.23 | sagacis | oh. Maybe I'm working on old code. |
| 19:19.26 | sagacis | crap. |
| 19:19.58 | sagacis | I thought all "target" should be in openembedded now. Am I right? |
| 19:20.05 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r` (n=rac0r@p4FD65E4F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:20.40 | Vegar | sagacis: is your code in buttonactions.c in this block? if ( event.type == 1 && event.code == TOUCHSCREEN_BUTTON_KEYCODE ) |
| 19:20.59 | sagacis | Yes. |
| 19:21.26 | Vegar | could you use a GTK timer to stop the vibration? |
| 19:21.58 | sagacis | http://pastebin.com/m191d241b |
| 19:22.00 | Vegar | if such a thing exists |
| 19:22.10 | sagacis | Don't want to use gtk in the daemon, i think |
| 19:22.26 | sagacis | I call neod_buttonactions_vibrate( duration ) |
| 19:25.42 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@foraker.freelock.com) |
| 19:25.50 | sagacis | how about ualarm()? |
| 19:26.11 | sagacis | oh. not recommended |
| 19:26.48 | ScaredyCat | whay can;t you sleep ? |
| 19:26.59 | Vegar | because a sleep would block |
| 19:27.19 | Ghiottone | what about a separate thread? |
| 19:27.32 | ScaredyCat | fork it |
| 19:28.02 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@213-202-168-171.bas503.dsl.esat.net) |
| 19:31.11 | sagacis | all right. I'm forking it. |
| 19:31.12 | mjr | not bad |
| 19:33.19 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@foraker.freelock.com) |
| 19:33.23 | Vegar | sagacis: what happens if a double-touch with an interval of 24ms occurs? |
| 19:33.30 | Vegar | how would you deal with double-touch? |
| 19:36.06 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 19:36.23 | sagacis | Vegar: That's what I'm considering right now. |
| 19:36.33 | ScaredyCat | fifo |
| 19:36.34 | sagacis | The old way was to not worry |
| 19:36.56 | sagacis | probably the first 0 would turn it off. |
| 19:37.05 | Vegar | yeah |
| 19:37.22 | Vegar | is it possible to do double-touches that fast? |
| 19:37.29 | sagacis | THe problem with threads or forking is making sure a 0 is set on exit |
| 19:37.30 | *** join/#openmoko ossman_ (n=drzeus@gateway.drzeus.cx) |
| 19:37.48 | sagacis | Vegar: I don't know the read rate of the screen, but 20 ms is a long time |
| 19:39.31 | sagacis | What's uevent? |
| 19:43.26 | thomasg | is there a possibility to do a full rebuild of all built packages in openembedded (but not ALL packages in OE ^^)? |
| 19:43.46 | sagacis | make clobber-stamps |
| 19:43.52 | zecke | botmail for pH5 Could you show me the build error as well? |
| 19:43.56 | sagacis | something like that |
| 19:44.21 | sagacis | You could rm stamps/openmoko-devel-image |
| 19:47.21 | sagacis | Wow! Forking is bad! |
| 19:47.28 | sagacis | at least the way I did it. |
| 19:49.56 | Ghiottone | sagacis, are you developing on neod? how are you doing it? |
| 19:58.09 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=tsingtao@f049186035.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:59.01 | sagacis | Ghiottone: Not easily |
| 19:59.02 | sagacis | heh |
| 19:59.28 | sagacis | Ghiottone: I'm using bitbake and making the changes to the ./tmp/work folder to keep quilt up to date |
| 19:59.37 | sagacis | When I'm done, I'll submit the patch. |
| 20:00.03 | roh | hmm.. quite some patches we piled up for gsmd |
| 20:06.38 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03zecke * r3060 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/ (ChangeLog configure.ac): |
| 20:06.38 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 2007-09-30 Holger 'Siddhartha' Freyther <zecke@selfish.org> |
| 20:06.38 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Link to WebKitGtk as upstream changed the name from Gdk |
| 20:06.38 | CIA-23 | openmoko: to Gtk. Thanks to pH5 to remind me. |
| 20:06.38 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * configure.ac: |
| 20:07.10 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03zecke * r3061 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-browser2/ (ChangeLog configure.ac): |
| 20:07.10 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 2007-09-30 Holger 'Siddhartha' Freyther <zecke@selfish.org> |
| 20:07.10 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Link to WebKitGtk as upstream changed the name from Gdk |
| 20:07.10 | CIA-23 | openmoko: to Gtk. Thanks to pH5 for reminding me. |
| 20:07.10 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * configure.ac: |
| 20:07.57 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@mathias.residence.ens-lyon.fr) |
| 20:08.48 | *** join/#openmoko Schugy (n=chris@Q1110.q.pppool.de) |
| 20:11.22 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 20:14.30 | Vegar | I always use file-roller to examine dpkg files |
| 20:23.35 | *** join/#openmoko Schugy_ (i=wapd845@hosting-agency.de) |
| 20:29.26 | Schugy_ | /msg schugy hi |
| 20:34.00 | ewon | gg |
| 20:34.58 | *** join/#openmoko Skullzera (i=FullT@201-89-254-223.cscgo701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 20:35.06 | Skullzera | hi |
| 20:35.32 | Ghiottone | hello |
| 20:39.36 | *** join/#openmoko josch (n=josch@p54B6E3CC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:39.43 | josch | Hi! I think I found a bug in the perl install - could somebody confirm this by running a little perl script (three lines) I wrote to test this issue? |
| 20:40.52 | *** join/#openmoko bextro (n=bextro@pD95FCD68.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:44.52 | *** join/#openmoko hardskinone (n=hardskin@host239-136-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:45.04 | riot | mokomakefile is 404.. oops |
| 20:45.48 | riot | lol.. apache2 there is a fresh setup one ;) "It works!" |
| 20:46.56 | Skullzera | does somebody knows how to install openmoko on a ming celphone? |
| 20:46.56 | aloril | Skullzera: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 20:47.14 | riot | rwhitby must have some trouble there... |
| 20:47.34 | *** join/#openmoko neobahia (n=neobahia@201008154234.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 20:47.53 | Skullzera | 1[n5e4obah5i1a]: aleluia |
| 20:48.00 | neobahia | rsss... |
| 20:48.09 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@foraker.freelock.com) |
| 20:48.12 | Skullzera | ali do lado direito são os usuarios no canal |
| 20:48.13 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Current_events]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] |
| 20:48.41 | Skullzera | does somebody knows how to install openmoko on a A1200E celphone? |
| 20:49.24 | cesarb | riot: "make check-makefile" is working for me, so it's not 404... |
| 20:49.28 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-148-077.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:49.33 | SpeedEvil | Basically - it barely works on the targetted phone. Skullzera. |
| 20:49.49 | Skullzera | ... |
| 20:50.26 | SpeedEvil | It's going to be a while till it's working on assorted other phones. I vaguely remember entries on the wiki. |
| 20:50.38 | Skullzera | 01SpeedEvil: http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk7kERGb9nU |
| 20:50.49 | Skullzera | :P |
| 20:51.29 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_Hardware |
| 20:51.42 | SpeedEvil | http://blog.myspace.cn/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=1303227936&blogID=304760192 |
| 20:52.15 | Skullzera | oh, thanks |
| 20:52.18 | Skullzera | :) |
| 20:52.22 | SpeedEvil | I can't see it at the moment. (the youtyube) |
| 20:52.36 | Skullzera | neobahia doesn't speak english, then i'm asking it for him |
| 20:53.53 | sagacis | cool |
| 20:54.05 | Schugy | Skullzera, is there a real videoformat file on people.openmoko.org or anywhere? youtube is a nice way to promote things as flv crap |
| 20:54.32 | *** part/#openmoko josch (n=josch@p54B6E3CC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:54.42 | Skullzera | i dunno |
| 20:54.47 | cesarb | Schugy: mplayer can play flv, it's in fact less annoying than "real" flash |
| 20:54.58 | Schugy | but flv doesn't scale in mplayer |
| 20:54.58 | SpeedEvil | mplayer can play some flv |
| 20:55.10 | Schugy | and the sound codec is awful |
| 20:55.17 | SpeedEvil | Not all youtube videos play for me at least. |
| 20:55.24 | Skullzera | there are some flv players that are opensource |
| 20:55.40 | Skullzera | then would be hard to make one |
| 20:55.42 | ruskie | gnash does it for me... |
| 20:55.45 | Skullzera | wouldn't* |
| 20:55.48 | guaqua | SpeedEvil: that video isn't worth it |
| 20:55.54 | Skullzera | wouldn't* be hard to make one |
| 20:56.03 | Schugy | i hate flash banner ads, I hate barriers like having to install non free players |
| 20:56.13 | ruskie | Schugy, so use gnash :) |
| 20:56.39 | Schugy | the format is still bad - especially sound - does gnash support fullscreen? |
| 20:56.47 | ruskie | no clue... |
| 20:56.50 | Schugy | denoising |
| 20:56.52 | Schugy | deblocking |
| 20:57.11 | ruskie | I simply use youtube-dl and mplayer when I actually want something :) |
| 20:58.00 | CM | swfdec works ok for me |
| 20:58.01 | ruskie | and didn't have much issues with scaling with mplayer... |
| 20:58.05 | Schugy | i usually avoid youtube, myspace and others |
| 20:58.05 | cesarb | Schugy: flash banner ads are great, since they will only show if you have a plugin which doesn't even exist for your architecture ;-) |
| 20:59.11 | Schugy | well im just on linux ia32 :-) but I have no rights to execute the plugin, its for my girlfriends account only :-) |
| 21:00.38 | *** join/#openmoko yellow (n=Tutto@85-18-136-89.fastres.net) |
| 21:00.41 | yellow | ciao |
| 21:00.45 | yellow | !list |
| 21:00.52 | *** part/#openmoko yellow (n=Tutto@85-18-136-89.fastres.net) |
| 21:01.18 | riot | wow.. something keeps switching Amp Mode wildly between speakers and headphone if i plug them in.. |
| 21:02.45 | *** join/#openmoko nox-Hand_ (i=johnhand@unaffiliated/nox-hand) |
| 21:03.26 | Skullzera | http://people.openezx.org/pmarques/pictures/rokr_e6_booting.jpg |
| 21:03.36 | Skullzera | looks like the matrix codes :P |
| 21:05.28 | *** part/#openmoko nox-Hand_ (i=johnhand@unaffiliated/nox-hand) |
| 21:11.23 | Schugy | whats the rokr e6? |
| 21:11.39 | Schugy | at least a linux device |
| 21:13.10 | SuN | Candybar touchscreen phone running Linux. |
| 21:13.23 | *** join/#openmoko musekinin (n=musekini@dslb-084-058-125-024.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:14.15 | Schugy | i still want a phone that is a navigation system, a gp2x-killer and a fast internet modem |
| 21:14.50 | SuN | COuld take another 10 years or so :D |
| 21:15.03 | Schugy | i've testet gprs with my siemens cf62 but that was quite slow and the gta02 is a gprs device 2 |
| 21:15.37 | Schugy | remembers me of the time when I had a 38400 boud rockwell modem |
| 21:16.18 | Schugy | but openmoko isn't gta-only-software |
| 21:16.22 | SuN | Hm, not too sure about my E6's GPRS class, speed is okay but there's quite a lot of latency. |
| 21:17.06 | Schugy | hsdpa is quite good, pure umts isn't much better than gprs |
| 21:17.43 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423 (n=user@A728d.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 21:18.03 | Schugy | but if there's a loveparade in dortmund and there are 1 000 000 people in a single cell it won't work anyway |
| 21:18.11 | SuN | Heh nope |
| 21:18.28 | hhf423 | re |
| 21:18.36 | Ghiottone | yo! |
| 21:18.44 | hhf423 | hi Ghiottone |
| 21:18.46 | Schugy | the longer I wait the better soft- and hardware i get |
| 21:19.15 | *** join/#openmoko musekinin (n=musekini@dslb-084-058-125-024.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:19.45 | Vegar | Schugy: the longer you wait, the crappier your current soft- and hardware gets |
| 21:20.32 | SuN | The suboptimal solutions will have to do for now, it's better than nothing at all. |
| 21:21.13 | hhf423 | the tytn ii looks good |
| 21:21.14 | Schugy | well, i hate my cf62 with openwave wap browser for telling me that the 40kb html page is too big for its memory |
| 21:21.25 | sagacis | ls |
| 21:21.30 | sagacis | oops |
| 21:21.30 | Schugy | wap is very limited |
| 21:21.36 | SuN | I'd get an HTC phone right away if there was one with decent Linux support. |
| 21:21.52 | sagacis | HTC universal almost runs openmoko |
| 21:21.53 | SuN | THeir hardware is vastly superior to anything on the market, IMO. |
| 21:22.13 | SuN | "almost", and openmoko can hardly do phonecalls :) |
| 21:22.18 | SuN | But we're getting there... slowly. |
| 21:22.32 | sagacis | I just made a phone call on my moko. |
| 21:22.50 | hhf423 | you re the man! |
| 21:22.52 | Schugy | but openmoko won't release there software as a 1.0 for the public like sony ericcson |
| 21:22.57 | sagacis | Hmm... No gsmd now |
| 21:22.59 | SpeedEvil | Congratulations! |
| 21:23.15 | Schugy | their phone reboots many times a day |
| 21:23.19 | hhf423 | did you call anyone meaningful? |
| 21:23.40 | Schugy | and after 3 weeks theres no fix from sony |
| 21:23.57 | hhf423 | my SE never reboots. it just works |
| 21:23.57 | Schugy | I know why OSS is so much better |
| 21:24.04 | SuN | The "fix" is: they released a new phone, which you'll have to buy :) |
| 21:24.15 | SuN | This is the M600 you're talking about, right? |
| 21:24.21 | Schugy | sony says: It should be rebooted all 4 weeks but not daily |
| 21:24.27 | sagacis | here's my log: http://pastebin.com/m52c8e8d2 |
| 21:24.33 | SuN | Awesome hardware, again (apart from lack of a camera), but they really messed up the software. |
| 21:24.34 | Schugy | well, I want uptimes of 200 days or more :-) |
| 21:24.52 | Schugy | cameras should be bought separately |
| 21:24.53 | riot | SuN: he talks about the p1i |
| 21:25.04 | Schugy | the p1 of cpurse |
| 21:25.16 | riot | SuN: reboots every few hours when used with O2, and then gets stuck at Pin-Entry ;D |
| 21:25.31 | hhf423 | Schugy: you will only get that with linux if you do not put in security patched |
| 21:25.55 | hhf423 | and that might be a bad idea |
| 21:26.02 | riot | Schugy: why that? You can do funny things with a camera in a mobile phone.. e.g. semapedia |
| 21:26.11 | SuN | Hmmm... that should have been the "upgrade" to the M600 that supposedly should fix the crashing, hehe. |
| 21:26.27 | Schugy | hhf423, you're right, i mean it for stability, missing memory leaks and so on, security fixes are welcomed |
| 21:27.35 | Schugy | if the gta could use a usb-hcd and gtkam I could push high quality pictures through the net |
| 21:27.40 | SuN | Well, you can't ignore the whole social thing that's happening on the internet. I've made quite a few lucky shots that I wouldn't have made if I didn't have a cellphone/camera combo. |
| 21:28.19 | hhf423 | i agree, camera is really nice to have |
| 21:29.08 | Schugy | but then 6mpxels, good optics, 3x optical zoom, low noise from its ccd |
| 21:29.31 | SuN | No point in that if the only thing you're doing is showing it to friends and putting it on the net. |
| 21:29.47 | SuN | For *real* photography I'll use a real camera. |
| 21:29.55 | Schugy | I prefer 6mpixels over 11mpixels if the noise increases |
| 21:31.00 | hhf423 | yeah, give me a good lens and low noise over pixels any day |
| 21:31.13 | Schugy | the camera would result in a 1000€+ phone |
| 21:31.13 | SpeedEvil | 640*480, with reasonable low-light performance is plenty for a phone IMO. |
| 21:31.28 | SpeedEvil | More is nice of course. |
| 21:31.31 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa (n=khmhm@3e70c934.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 21:31.43 | Schugy | I would always be bothers about low res shots that could be better than this handy-shots with 1,3mpx |
| 21:33.30 | Schugy | and in case the vga quality isn't already bad enough the jpg-compression will add even more artefacts on my cf62 :-) |
| 21:33.51 | |R | video conferencing would be incredible 8) |
| 21:34.19 | SpeedEvil | For 99.9% of the uses I have for a camera, 640*480'd be just fine. |
| 21:34.46 | Schugy | not to mention that the optional camera has a rs232 controller in it, thats damn slow |
| 21:34.47 | SuN | Hm, 640x480 is rather small, but 1.3MP or something is generally more than enough for me. |
| 21:35.21 | hhf423 | yeah, 1,something is fine |
| 21:35.34 | SpeedEvil | The problem is that fundamental optics get in the way. |
| 21:35.35 | Schugy | well, when its sharp |
| 21:35.39 | Schugy | color calibrated |
| 21:35.59 | SpeedEvil | For very small lenses, there just are not many photons/pixel coming through the lens. |
| 21:36.13 | Schugy | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:36.22 | hhf423 | anyway, this neo has no cam and the next one also not |
| 21:36.43 | Schugy | maybe it has a usb-hcd? |
| 21:36.45 | SpeedEvil | Add that maybe 2/3 of them get absorbed by the colour filters, 1/2 by not being converted to electrons, 20% by hitting between pixels, and the fundamental numbers get worse. |
| 21:37.28 | hhf423 | and its not clear if a cam is even considered for the 2008 neo |
| 21:37.31 | Schugy | something like pictbridge would be fine for the gta02 |
| 21:38.02 | hhf423 | does the gta02 have active usb host? |
| 21:38.08 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 21:38.22 | SpeedEvil | 2 ports |
| 21:38.25 | Schugy | thats good "news" |
| 21:38.27 | SpeedEvil | one connected to bluetooth |
| 21:39.10 | hhf423 | ah, cool. that in the wiki yet? |
| 21:39.14 | Schugy | but I'm still disappointed with tomtom - their navis run linux but there's no pc software for linux |
| 21:39.17 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 21:39.32 | hhf423 | ok |
| 21:39.34 | SpeedEvil | schonstal: come the first 100K OM sales, and they may reconsider. |
| 21:39.36 | Schugy | usbstorage.ko will be my friend |
| 21:39.48 | SpeedEvil | For US and NL at least - OSM may be a useful thing sooner. |
| 21:40.03 | SpeedEvil | As for both, there have been donated maps of the entire contruy |
| 21:40.25 | Schugy | and there is navicore for n770 and n800 which are linux internet tablets |
| 21:40.26 | *** part/#openmoko hhf423 (n=user@A728d.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 21:40.32 | SpeedEvil | OpenStreetMap - free online map |
| 21:40.49 | Jeroen | we still need to work on navigation software however |
| 21:41.01 | |R | hehe i hope i'll be able to use the GPS in the OM over bluetooth with the screen of the n800 in the car or whatever ;) |
| 21:41.27 | Schugy | well, the gta02 doesn't need an external gps-receiver |
| 21:42.06 | Schugy | but tmc pro would be nice |
| 21:42.29 | Schugy | maybe as an usbstick |
| 21:43.11 | Schugy | has anyone ported scummvm to openmoko yet? |
| 21:45.00 | Schugy | I wonder how I could play games with vice c64-emulator on a neo without a d-pad |
| 21:47.09 | Ghiottone | Schugy, yes I played with monkey island on the neo |
| 21:47.26 | Schugy | does anyone know anything about future smedia-chips? there´s currently only one vga chipset without h263 decoding, the others are only SIF 320x240 |
| 21:47.34 | Schugy | Ghiottone, and was it snappy? |
| 21:47.41 | Ghiottone | yes |
| 21:47.46 | Ghiottone | very playable |
| 21:47.49 | Schugy | thats good |
| 21:47.59 | Ghiottone | apart from lacking a skip button :/ |
| 21:48.24 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@host146-17-dynamic.8-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:49.08 | Schugy | but without a d-pad it won't be a superior gp2x |
| 21:50.27 | Schugy | but I wonder if it's possible to construct mounting holes and solid pins that don't wear out after years of heavy usage |
| 21:51.02 | Schugy | Don't want to cripple the neos excellent design permanently |
| 21:51.09 | |R | Couldn't you pair it with a Wii Controller? :) |
| 21:51.26 | XorA|gone | or the PS3 six axis will run with Neo |
| 21:51.37 | |R | or use the accelerometer as a D-Pad (and break the Moko haha ;) |
| 21:57.33 | Schugy | maybe there could be a docking case like: (_____)x) |
| 21:57.57 | Schugy | oops have forgotten buttons a and b |
| 21:59.58 | Schugy | it would be pretty bad to have a gta02 on the lap and play with a logitech wireless rumble pad |
| 22:00.09 | Schugy | I want to keep the screen in my hands |
| 22:01.31 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@76.209.221.205) |
| 22:08.12 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@78.128.195.252) |
| 22:09.48 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=cb22@dsl-245-142-242.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 22:15.34 | *** join/#openmoko gcb77_ (n=gcb77@c-24-16-154-132.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 22:17.50 | *** part/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@76.209.221.205) |
| 22:19.01 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 22:28.02 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@c-67-188-113-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:37.26 | *** join/#openmoko duffyd (n=tim@202-74-203-52.ue.woosh.co.nz) |
| 22:37.39 | *** join/#openmoko zeth (n=zeth@sblug/lugmaster/zeth) |
| 22:37.49 | duffyd | hi anyone know much about the http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ site? |
| 22:38.05 | duffyd | just want to use the latest qtopia image from there but unsure which kernel image I should use? |
| 22:38.18 | duffyd | I've got one from the trolltech site but unsure if I should get a newer one |
| 22:38.29 | Ghiottone | qtopia is from trolltech |
| 22:38.32 | zeth | Hi newbie question, I am running OpenMoko on Qemu for the first time and I am looking at 'Today', how do I access the applications menu? |
| 22:38.32 | aloril | zeth: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 22:38.56 | Ghiottone | zeth, central button at bottom of the screen |
| 22:38.58 | duffyd | Ghiottone: yup :) |
| 22:39.07 | Ghiottone | duffyd, take the one from trolltech site |
| 22:39.07 | zeth | cheers |
| 22:39.24 | duffyd | Ghiottone: ok, thanks |
| 22:39.33 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@84.90.165.129) |
| 22:48.53 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] |
| 22:49.07 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@70-41-162-16.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 22:55.15 | zeth | Ghiottone sorry one more newbie question, how does one close an application? |
| 22:55.35 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@77-56-188-185.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:58.05 | duffyd | Ghiottone: I'm a little nervous as don't wanna brick my Neo so do you know if I use a rootfs that's not the qtopia released one whether I will in fact brick my neo? |
| 22:58.51 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@77-56-188-185.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:59.37 | *** join/#openmoko Centurio_42357 (n=Centurio@p5B23835C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:59.38 | Centurio_42357 | http://www.pennergame.de/ref.php?refid=7963124 |
| 23:00.01 | jorgenpt | You can't "brick it" with a kernel image, AFAIK. ;-) |
| 23:00.12 | jorgenpt | You have to try flashing a new uboot to manage that. |
| 23:00.43 | jorgenpt | (The flashing part is done by uboot, which starts before the userspace and even the kernel, so even if the kernel doesn't boot or is corrupted, you can flash in uboot) |
| 23:01.36 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@76.209.221.205) |
| 23:11.37 | emdete | jorgenpt: in fact you can brick it with anything if you flash it into the place where the u-boot resides... |
| 23:12.21 | emdete | but bricking a neo is a temporary state if you have a debug board :) |
| 23:12.25 | Mek | is it possible to bring it to a state where you can't recover it without a debug board without using a debug board? |
| 23:12.37 | jorgenpt | emdete: Well, right. :-) |
| 23:12.51 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 23:12.52 | emdete | Mek: yes, shure |
| 23:12.55 | SpeedEvil | GTA01 that is |
| 23:12.56 | jorgenpt | Mek: I would think so? Anyone can flash (and break) uboot. |
| 23:12.57 | SpeedEvil | GTA02 - not |
| 23:13.05 | jorgenpt | Really? What's changed in 02? |
| 23:13.11 | duffyd | jorgenpt: thanks |
| 23:13.13 | SpeedEvil | A read-only FLASH |
| 23:13.21 | SpeedEvil | that is only writable by the debug board |
| 23:13.29 | jorgenpt | Aha. Neat. :) |
| 23:13.29 | nbd | you can flash uboot on gta02 as well |
| 23:13.29 | SpeedEvil | which contains sane boot code |
| 23:13.32 | nbd | there's just a backup |
| 23:13.53 | jorgenpt | So you can "recover" to a known working state using what? A jumper? |
| 23:14.03 | SpeedEvil | I think it's actually the other way round |
| 23:14.20 | SpeedEvil | it boots normally from the read-only ROM, then jumps early to the u-boot in normal flash. |
| 23:14.25 | emdete | you have a safe u-boot to boot u-boot? |
| 23:14.35 | SpeedEvil | if you have not pressed a button or something |
| 23:14.48 | SpeedEvil | if you press a button, and boot, then it boots safe mode u-boot |
| 23:14.57 | jorgenpt | Neato. |
| 23:16.11 | *** join/#openmoko wightstraker (n=johnolms@pool-105-22.res.carleton.edu) |
| 23:16.25 | *** part/#openmoko zeth (n=zeth@sblug/lugmaster/zeth) |
| 23:16.29 | Mek | is it possible to get it in a state where even the debug board can't save it anymore? |
| 23:17.08 | jorgenpt | Yes; sledgehammer, blowtorch - there are numerous ways. |
| 23:17.21 | Mek | well... without resorting to violence/brute force? :) |
| 23:17.24 | wightstraker | I've been having a surprising amount of trouble trying to figure out what the neo1973's onscreen keyboard is like - anyone care to fill me in? |
| 23:17.43 | jorgenpt | wightstraker: AFAIK there're two in openmoko, and a third in qtopia. |
| 23:18.04 | jorgenpt | ScaredyCat: Is the onscreen keyboard for qtopia improved in later builds? |
| 23:18.19 | jorgenpt | (like .. possibility of hiding it after use, backspace) |
| 23:18.20 | sagacis | jorgenpt: What's wrong with the keyboard? |
| 23:18.31 | wightstraker | jorgenpt: I guess the key question is here: will I have to use a stylus? |
| 23:18.43 | sagacis | You won't have to use a stylus. I used my finger quite well. |
| 23:18.48 | jorgenpt | wightstraker: I bet someone will make a keyboard that doesn't require it, I'm not sure if there's one atm. |
| 23:18.54 | sagacis | backspace is stroke-left across the top of the keyboard |
| 23:18.58 | jorgenpt | I think the non-qwerty onscreen keyboard works with the finger |
| 23:19.05 | jorgenpt | sagacis: How .. intuitive? :P |
| 23:19.09 | wightstraker | none-qwerty? |
| 23:19.14 | wightstraker | What is it then? |
| 23:19.20 | wightstraker | *non |
| 23:19.22 | sagacis | jorgenpt: Also, stroke up and down to rolodex between character sets |
| 23:19.32 | jorgenpt | Hmm, cool. |
| 23:19.41 | sagacis | wightstraker: sorry, thought you meant qtopia keyboard |
| 23:19.46 | jorgenpt | Or, it might be qwerty, but at least it isn't laid out like a normal keyboard. |
| 23:19.50 | sagacis | jorgenpt: Press and hold a key to get the magnifier |
| 23:20.06 | jorgenpt | sagacis: How do you hide it after use? (when you're done inputting?) |
| 23:20.11 | sagacis | wightstraker: Right now, your best bet is to use a stylus on the moko keyboard |
| 23:20.37 | jorgenpt | And does it actually allow you to see the input-field somehow? (In certain parts of the GUI it covers the input field) |
| 23:20.40 | sagacis | did you "accept" the word (tap on it above the keyboard)? It disappears when you leave edit fields. |
| 23:20.48 | sagacis | Yeah, that's annoying. |
| 23:21.15 | jorgenpt | How do you "leave" an edit field? |
| 23:21.24 | jorgenpt | I tried clicking a blank part of the gui, no luck |
| 23:23.35 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 23:24.27 | sagacis | press the green arrow and move on with life. YOu should be able to scroll the screen if you can't see it. |
| 23:24.55 | jorgenpt | Hm, ok |
| 23:24.58 | jorgenpt | Green arrow returns to the previous menu, though. |
| 23:25.21 | jorgenpt | What terminal program do you guys use to talk to the neo over "console over USB"? |
| 23:25.28 | SpeedEvil | cu |
| 23:25.29 | sagacis | Oh. right. green arrow is "exit" |
| 23:25.30 | jorgenpt | Tried minicom, but I think I'm doing something wrong. :-) |
| 23:25.30 | SpeedEvil | or minicom |
| 23:25.35 | sagacis | cu |
| 23:25.37 | SpeedEvil | cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 23:25.51 | sagacis | it almost works well. |
| 23:26.41 | *** join/#openmoko ^leo^` (n=user@r201-221-33-162.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 23:32.06 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@68.23.92.165) |
| 23:33.47 | sagacis | Do we have guidelines for submitting patches? I am sure my patch file is applied to the wrong place (tmp/work/...), but am not sure exactly where it should be applied. |
| 23:34.32 | jorgenpt | hm, the qtopia-keyboard isn't too bad when you get used to it |
| 23:35.06 | jorgenpt | sagacis: Is there a way to delete a single character? |
| 23:35.48 | sagacis | jorgenpt: I don't know, actually. |
| 23:36.00 | sagacis | I think there's documentation at trolltech or qtopia.net |
| 23:36.13 | jorgenpt | ok |
| 23:36.48 | mmazur | Drawing a horizontal line from right to left should do the trick. |
| 23:37.10 | sagacis | mmazur: That deletes the whole word |
| 23:50.55 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123.243.236.35) |
