| 17:24.24 | *** join/#openmoko apt (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 17:24.24 | *** topic/#openmoko is OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> wiki.openmoko.org <> Anyone can buy for $350 starting around mid May. Mass market in September. |
| 17:25.17 | philippe | hey all. |
| 17:25.33 | philippe | Anybody have a clue why we have portmap running in openmoko? |
| 17:25.34 | woglinde | he phillipe |
| 17:25.41 | woglinde | hehe |
| 17:25.46 | philippe | hi woglinde |
| 17:26.00 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@115.Red-88-9-90.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 17:26.00 | woglinde | task from oe I guess |
| 17:27.03 | philippe | my guess is that it should not be there. It is one of the annoying services I always disable on my desktop installs. Together with that exim4/postfix/favourite email server that most distros install by default |
| 17:27.22 | woglinde | hm |
| 17:27.28 | ynezz | maybe it's for nfs |
| 17:27.39 | woglinde | yeah |
| 17:27.54 | woglinde | if you dont want to stress your flash |
| 17:28.01 | woglinde | start applications from nfs |
| 17:28.02 | philippe | ynezz: just my thought... |
| 17:29.02 | philippe | however nfs will does not seem to be running. Anyway I guess on production it should not be there... up to bugzilla :-) |
| 17:29.38 | ynezz | well, someone might run nfs over gprs :) |
| 17:30.04 | philippe | ynezz: nfs is already painful enough on a normal network... |
| 17:30.20 | philippe | ynezz: oh your are talking about networked SM :-) |
| 17:31.01 | balrog-kun | i think people do use nfs on openmoko |
| 17:31.58 | guaqua | no-one tried coda yet? |
| 17:32.13 | balrog-kun | and there's no reason to not have it supported on production too, as a way for sync'ing files to desktop |
| 17:32.31 | philippe | balrog-kun: for development it makes sense. But no need to have it running by default. Seems it roughly eats up 400K of memory |
| 17:32.48 | balrog-kun | hmm, that's a lot |
| 17:33.23 | noidd | Greetings! |
| 17:33.35 | noidd | So, how is everyone (who has one) finding G4? |
| 17:34.12 | philippe | balrog-kun: memfree with portmap running 68328 without portmap 68728 |
| 17:34.23 | philippe | and about 20k change in buffers. |
| 17:35.55 | philippe | And for file sync it makes more sense to have a ftp/http/rsync/ssh or dedicated solution |
| 17:36.04 | woglinde | but for testing |
| 17:36.10 | woglinde | ssh via usb is okay |
| 17:36.13 | woglinde | aeh nfs |
| 17:36.15 | woglinde | sorry |
| 17:38.46 | philippe | woglinde: you don't like nfs also? I personally hate it. Too much file corruption and mysterious failures. |
| 17:39.17 | noidd | you should never see file corrupption on nfs |
| 17:40.47 | philippe | noidd: *should* |
| 17:42.45 | guaqua | never had any problems with it |
| 17:43.26 | woglinde | philippe no I like it |
| 17:43.35 | woglinde | especial nfsroot |
| 17:44.45 | philippe | woglinde: true nfsroot is nice. |
| 17:46.28 | Elrond | philippe - nfs on AIX is quite good. |
| 17:48.33 | aloril | (script) openmoko-devel: Werner Almesberger <werner at openmoko.org> Re: Home-Brew IR port. Was - Please Ignore RS232 message. The |
| 17:50.33 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
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| 18:02.49 | *** join/#openmoko kiney (n=kiney@p54883f8a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:02.54 | kiney | counter? |
| 18:02.55 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; 3 days 08:58:37 (3.374 +-3.4 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-05-13); 4 months, 4 days (127.748 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (1146;199) |
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| 18:06.42 | Elrond | kiney - You can use "counter" without the "?" to get a shorter form. |
| 18:06.55 | kiney | I wanted the longer form |
| 18:08.28 | Elrond | You can also counter? in a query |
| 18:12.41 | balrog-kun | /counter should be made a network wide command :) |
| 18:12.53 | Elrond | *G* |
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| 18:13.02 | Elrond | Not really. It's too inaccurate. |
| 18:13.20 | balrog-kun | it's enough that it spits out a lot of numbers |
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| 18:30.12 | webjames | hey all, so what the latest exciting news? |
| 18:33.47 | webjames | nothing new, did i hear with monday we would hear some news on P1? |
| 18:34.38 | SpeedEvil | Dunno. |
| 18:34.43 | SpeedEvil | Where did you hear it? |
| 18:34.54 | aloril2 | kiney: this works too: /msg aloril counter? |
| 18:35.19 | webjames | i'm sure someone said it on here |
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| 18:36.02 | aloril2 | webjanes: I would say that Monday is lower limit for possible news at some point in next week |
| 18:36.21 | webjames | excellent! |
| 18:37.06 | aloril2 | Of course its possible that there are no news next week either .. |
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| 18:37.39 | barmeier | hi |
| 18:37.42 | barmeier | counter |
| 18:37.42 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 3 days 08:41:14 (3.362 +-3.4 days) (1147;200) |
| 18:37.43 | webjames | lets hope what is possible is not probable |
| 18:39.01 | SpeedEvil | It's possible that the neo1973 is merely a cunningly executed fake. |
| 18:39.22 | SpeedEvil | And that the web store due to pop up next week is really simply to take 500 orders, then run off with the money;. |
| 18:39.55 | SpeedEvil | I'd be surprised at no news next week. |
| 18:39.58 | webjames | SpeedEvil, it is entirely possible |
| 18:40.36 | webjames | SpeedEvil, here's to hoping for news monday *raises glass to freedom* |
| 18:41.15 | aloril2 | current guess is that there will be news once they have tested this run |
| 18:41.34 | webjames | which run is that? |
| 18:41.50 | webjames | would that be what i've just compiled into qemu? |
| 18:41.54 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Well, I'll let you guys fakebuy the first 500. ;o) |
| 18:42.12 | koen | webjames: the run from the new factory |
| 18:42.27 | webjames | Elrond, you're not fooling anyone, we all know you're in for a 20% cut |
| 18:42.28 | koen | webjames: my p0 and p1 were produced in taiwain, the new plant is in mainland china |
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| 18:43.09 | webjames | koen, thank you, i did hear about the move. so once they've tested the new P1 from china then we will see some action |
| 18:43.29 | Elrond | webjames - How did you know? ;o) |
| 18:43.57 | koen | webjames: that's what I suspect |
| 18:44.23 | Elrond | koen - BTW: On the twin pic, which is the old, which the new? |
| 18:44.36 | webjames | koen, excellent |
| 18:44.42 | koen | the one with the penmarks in the FIC logo is the old one |
| 18:45.38 | webjames | koen, do they physically look any different? |
| 18:45.53 | koen | webjames: after I added the penmarks they did :) |
| 18:46.07 | koen | otherwise they are identical on the outside |
| 18:46.19 | aloril2 | SpeedEvil: somebody posted link to some web store that has Neo1973 on sale for about $500; image was very old mockup one (green Neo + mapping software) |
| 18:46.27 | webjames | koen, that's a no then. but we all know what's important is what's in the inside! ;) |
| 18:46.56 | webjames | elrond, got a cut in that to?! ;P |
| 18:47.24 | webjames | koen, what's that? |
| 18:48.08 | koen | webjames: swapping the bluetooth board for a UWB board |
| 18:49.14 | webjames | is UWB: Ultra-wide-band |
| 18:49.42 | Elrond | koen - So the different coloring is really only due to light and viewing angle? |
| 18:50.11 | koen | yes, the bottom one is in direct light, the top one isn't |
| 18:50.22 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 18:50.38 | webjames | UWB appears in IEEE 802.15.4a draft PAN standard |
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| 18:50.53 | Elrond | I've read in bugzilla, that they planned to change the AUX button somewhat to not be so much indented into the case. Did they fix that? |
| 18:51.00 | koen | UWB rocks |
| 18:51.14 | koen | Elrond: p0 and p1 have identical buttons |
| 18:51.27 | paroneayea | dang |
| 18:51.32 | webjames | it does seem to, however for all those other non rockin' devices that use bluetooth would be useless |
| 18:51.43 | paroneayea | I wish I could buy one now and rush-order. The LCD panel on my phone just died ;P |
| 18:52.02 | noidd | z |
| 18:52.09 | chadp | bummer :( |
| 18:52.10 | noidd | 'lo koen |
| 18:52.15 | koen | hey noidd |
| 18:52.17 | webjames | paroneayea, on your neo? or something else? |
| 18:52.22 | noidd | hows G4 working for you? |
| 18:52.35 | paroneayea | webjames: on my normal old generic cellphone |
| 18:52.49 | paroneayea | but since I'm gonna buy a new cell phone |
| 18:52.57 | paroneayea | I wish it had died right when you could order 'em |
| 18:53.14 | webjames | paroneayea, what i've done is get a contract with a nice expensive phone, sold it and it pays for the contract for the year |
| 18:53.32 | webjames | leaving me with some cash to get a neo when it comes |
| 18:53.42 | koen | funny that you can't make or receive calls with the installed p1 firmware |
| 18:54.03 | Elrond | koen - Still not?! |
| 18:54.03 | koen | it's also funny that the gps test app kills the dial and gsmd |
| 18:54.19 | Elrond | Yuck. |
| 18:54.28 | koen | Elrond: I am able to make calls with the images I build myself, that don't use the svn overlay |
| 18:54.59 | Elrond | koen - Oh well. And the images from buildhost are also borked? |
| 18:55.07 | koen | dunno |
| 18:55.18 | koen | using the arm OABI is so last year |
| 18:55.31 | webjames | Offtopic, but i'm buying a new computer should i get a e6700 cpu or wait for the amd true dual core? |
| 18:58.07 | Elrond | koen - You know by any chance, what debian/arm uses as abi? |
| 18:58.41 | koen | Elrond: they are switching to EABI after they stop being utter idiots |
| 18:58.46 | noidd | koen: I can't get mine to stay powered on for more than 3 mins. |
| 18:59.02 | noidd | I probably need to hit uboot to increase the charging rate againb |
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| 19:30.57 | pjz | counter? |
| 19:30.57 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; 3 days 08:14:36 (3.343 +-3.3 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-05-13); 4 months, 4 days (127.687 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (1148;200) |
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| 20:20.58 | Lorphos | anyone using a bluetooth keyboard with the neo1973 already? |
| 20:21.53 | Lorphos | if not, are there pieces missing at the moment? which ones? |
| 20:22.06 | thresh | йниенде Ч[Bsomeone uses neo already?! |
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| 20:22.49 | CM | thresh: There's about 40 ppl having Neo's, but early beta versions |
| 20:22.50 | balrog-kun | someone does |
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| 20:24.22 | thresh | that was a joke :) |
| 20:25.11 | CM | Heh, sorry.. I guess I should go stand in shame in the corner :P |
| 20:26.09 | thresh | :) |
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| 20:33.27 | Elrond | CM - Some already have a P1. |
| 20:33.38 | ossman | :) |
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| 20:35.02 | ossman | speaking of which, is this the proper development channel? or mostly people with a general interest? |
| 20:35.03 | aloril | ossman: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
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| 20:36.08 | balrog-kun | ossman: there's a separate development channel |
| 20:36.14 | balrog-kun | it's invite-only |
| 20:36.41 | ossman | balrog-kun, oh. who do I poke? |
| 20:37.08 | Elrond | ossman - Just poke around. Many can help you without being "official developers". |
| 20:37.25 | balrog-kun | ossman: not sure, i guess one of the core people (they're here too) |
| 20:38.26 | ossman | what's the primary makeup of people here? developers or users? |
| 20:38.44 | Elrond | I'd say half/half. |
| 20:38.47 | balrog-kun | i'm sure there's nothing interesting going on there ;) |
| 20:39.48 | Elrond | balrog-kun - You mean in #*-devel? My guess is, they're planning "what to do at the next evening". ;o) |
| 20:40.18 | balrog-kun | as in where to go drinking (the german gang)? |
| 20:40.34 | ossman | code is best produced hammered |
| 20:41.20 | stefan_schmidt | balrog-kun: drinking, where? ;) |
| 20:41.26 | *** join/#openmoko _llll_ (i=llll@unaffiliated/llll/x-000002) |
| 20:44.29 | Elrond | balrog-kun - As in "trying to acquire the world dominion" (I'm trying to translate "Pinky and Brain"-animated cartoons from local language to english) ;o) |
| 20:47.18 | balrog-kun | oh, heh |
| 20:47.36 | *** join/#openmoko thresh (n=popa3d@unaffiliated/thresh) |
| 20:48.07 | Elrond | balrog-kun - Do you know Pinky and Brain? |
| 20:48.36 | pjz | Elrond: "trying to TAKE OVER THE WORLD!" |
| 20:49.03 | pjz | relatedly: Animaniacs is now availalbe on DVD, I hear. |
| 20:49.48 | Elrond | pjz - Ahh, good to know the real english version now. |
| 20:50.04 | stefan_schmidt | Sounds like a 'must buy' |
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| 20:51.46 | balrog-kun | Elrond: yea, i knew what phrase you meant but i had never watched the english version either |
| 20:52.24 | Elrond | balrog-kun - Ahh. :) |
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| 21:25.16 | ossman | any debug board owners here? |
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| 21:44.56 | Elrond | ossman - Why do you need someone with a debug board? |
| 21:45.00 | ossman | experience and help getting started :) |
| 21:47.46 | Elrond | ossman - You have a debug board?! |
| 21:48.58 | ossman | indeed. making me do kernel work without one would be very evil ;) |
| 21:49.02 | woglinde | *g* |
| 21:50.16 | Elrond | ossman - Well, what I heard: The FPC seems to only work 20 times or so. So if you have connected the debug board, keep it connected for a while. ;-) |
| 21:50.43 | ossman | delightful |
| 21:51.33 | aloril | (script) openmoko-devel: Werner Almesberger <werner at openmoko.org> Re: Home-Brew IR port. Was - Please Ignore RS232 message. The |
| 21:54.35 | Elrond | ossman - What part of the kernel do you intend to work on? |
| 21:54.44 | ossman | Elrond, sd reader |
| 21:55.36 | Elrond | Huh, I assumed, that it worked? |
| 21:56.08 | ossman | but it's slow |
| 21:56.34 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 21:56.34 | ossman | and issues might show up as things progress |
| 21:57.03 | Elrond | :-) |
| 21:57.35 | Elrond | Have you been specifically been elected or did you ask to work on this? |
| 21:59.32 | ossman | well, I wrote most of the code, so a little of both :) |
| 21:59.42 | Elrond | hehe, okay. :-)) |
| 22:00.59 | mjr | incidentally, IIRC there were issues in writing SD card reader drivers some while back relating to non-disclosure and SD DRM features I guess, that's over with or? |
| 22:01.42 | ossman | yes and no |
| 22:01.52 | ossman | we figured out the protocol without signing the nda |
| 22:02.04 | ossman | we still have no idea how the drm bits work though |
| 22:02.08 | mjr | righto |
| 22:02.24 | mjr | well, most here don't probably care about the drm bits |
| 22:02.32 | ossman | btw, the protocol is available without nda these days |
| 22:02.32 | mjr | as long as it's a usable block device :) |
| 22:02.47 | ossman | indeed |
| 22:03.08 | Elrond | From a very high point of view, how is that DRM stuff intended to work? |
| 22:03.10 | ossman | now I just need to get my hands on one of these 4 GB cards |
| 22:03.55 | ossman | Elrond, I think it's similar to how TPMs work. you provide them with a hash that identifies the machine. if that hash matches the one that stored the data, the card will allow you to read it |
| 22:04.27 | ossman | I have seen exactly zero products that support it though |
| 22:04.36 | ossman | so it's just a waste of bit |
| 22:04.38 | ossman | +s |
| 22:04.48 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 22:06.08 | Elrond | I never tried to understand, how the TPM thing works, when you want to update somethint -- say your kernel. But that's offtopic. :) |
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| 22:11.43 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: Nice to see sd maintainer hacking on the neo. |
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| 22:11.49 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: So http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=93 is for you? |
| 22:12.16 | ossman | indeed |
| 22:12.25 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: I just dropped a mail to support@sandisk.com for available microSDHC cards |
| 22:12.25 | ossman | should work, but better safe than sorry :) |
| 22:12.35 | stefan_schmidt | exactly |
| 22:12.36 | ossman | http://shopping.bit-tech.net/UK/product/35029443/SanDisk_SanDisk_microSDHC_4GB_CardPRE_ORDER_ONLY_/ |
| 22:12.59 | ossman | I have a miniSDHC, but no micro |
| 22:13.06 | ossman | you should have gone with a bigger slot ;) |
| 22:13.21 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: real SD would rock |
| 22:13.33 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: Perhaps next model |
| 22:13.44 | ossman | by then we'll have SDIO ;) |
| 22:13.52 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: I still don't get why this card is not available yet |
| 22:14.22 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: We should have microSDIO anyway, right? |
| 22:14.25 | ossman | probably takes time to get good yields |
| 22:14.33 | stefan_schmidt | perhaps |
| 22:14.43 | ossman | I don't think SDIO exist for anything but fullsize |
| 22:15.27 | ossman | stefan_schmidt, btw, have you frozen kernel version or are you tracking linus? |
| 22:15.40 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: tracking releases atm |
| 22:15.46 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: .21 |
| 22:16.40 | ossman | rcs aswell? |
| 22:16.41 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: today some alsa stuff got merged and Ben is preparing more for .22 |
| 22:16.41 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: No, not atm |
| 22:16.41 | ossman | there are a whole bunch of suspend fixes in Linus' HEAD right now |
| 22:16.44 | ossman | for mmc/sd that is |
| 22:16.44 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: Sometimes small patch backports. We did it for the SDHC patch in .20 |
| 22:17.11 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: hmm, easy to backport? |
| 22:17.32 | ossman | there are a lot of commits unfortunately |
| 22:17.46 | ossman | if you don't care about history, then you can just copy over the mmc dirs |
| 22:18.04 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: If you think it's worth you could suggest it to openmoko-kernel ml |
| 22:18.25 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: nah, we like clean patches |
| 22:18.27 | stefan_schmidt | :) |
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| 22:19.27 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: We could add recipes for the -rcX kernels, but I fear Harald is overloaded with so much stuff that this would not help much |
| 22:19.57 | Elrond | No. Please stick to released stable kernels. Please. |
| 22:20.20 | ossman | stefan_schmidt, not delegating as much as he perhaps should? |
| 22:20.22 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Not for the default image |
| 22:20.45 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: That is one point. The problem of the perfectionists ;) |
| 22:20.50 | ossman | btw, how do you update the thing? |
| 22:21.25 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: But we have only two reak kernel hacker working on it or money. Harald and Werner |
| 22:21.30 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: Update what? |
| 22:21.47 | Elrond | ossman - dfu. |
| 22:21.52 | ossman | kernel, apps, libs, etc |
| 22:22.05 | SpeedEvil | ossman: apps, whatever. |
| 22:22.08 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: ah, as Elrond say. DFU |
| 22:22.14 | SpeedEvil | ssh, or some mechanism not released. |
| 22:22.21 | ossman | dfu? |
| 22:22.24 | SpeedEvil | Kernel, bootloader - DFU only |
| 22:22.33 | SpeedEvil | USB firmware update standard. |
| 22:22.37 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: Device Firmware Update. Hardware independent standard from USB forum |
| 22:22.46 | Elrond | ossman - DFU is a standard for firmware update via usb. u-boot does it. |
| 22:22.46 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: Pretty neat but mostly unknown |
| 22:22.51 | SpeedEvil | apps or libs might be done through 'normal' network type. |
| 22:22.51 | ossman | fancy |
| 22:22.57 | Elrond | ossman - http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko |
| 22:23.19 | ossman | chance of bricking it? |
| 22:23.35 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: If you flash the wrong bootloader, yes. |
| 22:23.50 | Elrond | Unless you overwrite u-boot with crap... it's not bricked. |
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| 22:23.52 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: All other partitions are fine |
| 22:24.05 | ossman | no plan b in place for that scenario? :) |
| 22:24.06 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: And with debug board even that is fine. |
| 22:24.19 | Elrond | ossman - plan b is the debug board. ;o) |
| 22:24.21 | SpeedEvil | Or with cats |
| 22:24.26 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: We think about this problem for the mass market launch |
| 22:24.29 | ossman | lucky I have that then :) |
| 22:24.40 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - cats? |
| 22:25.33 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: btw, what do you think about the sd card holder? |
| 22:25.34 | Elrond | meme? |
| 22:25.44 | SpeedEvil | For mass-market, probably going to get more complex. Signed blobs only unless you go through some process to say you have a clue. |
| 22:25.57 | stefan_schmidt | SpeedEvil: nah |
| 22:26.20 | Elrond | s/signed/marked-for-this-phone/ |
| 22:26.35 | stefan_schmidt | SpeedEvil: In the end it must be something that can not be broken by software. Something really safe. |
| 22:26.49 | Elrond | "I'm a GTA01Bv05 I don't take u-boot for GTA01Bv04" ;) |
| 22:26.55 | hads | Yeah |
| 22:26.56 | SpeedEvil | IMO, that doesn't matter. |
| 22:27.02 | SpeedEvil | User gets to break phone. |
| 22:27.16 | SpeedEvil | As long as user can't break phone without actual effort. |
| 22:27.49 | ossman | stefan_schmidt, no strong opinions about it. full size would of course have been better. as would have an external (from a usage point of view) |
| 22:28.38 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: External: Ack, Full size: No opinion. But I fear it is to easy to break |
| 22:28.57 | SpeedEvil | There have already been reports of breakage. |
| 22:29.00 | SpeedEvil | Well - bendage. |
| 22:29.19 | Elrond | Right. |
| 22:29.29 | SpeedEvil | And then there is the whole 'opeerate phone without microSD and it may fry' thing. |
| 22:29.38 | ossman | come again? |
| 22:29.38 | Elrond | When I get a phone, I need to ask someone with good eyes and good hands to insert the sd :) |
| 22:31.52 | ossman | stefan_schmidt, how much contact do you have with samsung? |
| 22:32.07 | Elrond | ossman - "come again"? |
| 22:32.49 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: hmm, Harald and Sean had many meetings with seem. And the contacts getting more and more senior. Why you ask? |
| 22:33.05 | ossman | Elrond, as a response to SpeedEvil's claim about frying the phone |
| 22:33.50 | SpeedEvil | ossman: The metal the microSD is made from is very fragile. |
| 22:34.02 | ossman | stefan_schmidt, I'd prefer it if they submit their drivers to mainline |
| 22:34.07 | XorA|gone | ossman: if you press on the top of SD slot too hard you short the power on the phone, although I think there is a current limit in there on P1 |
| 22:34.08 | SpeedEvil | There is a reported concern from FIC/or some of their engineers |
| 22:34.18 | SpeedEvil | that it can short out the power supply. |
| 22:34.37 | ossman | nice |
| 22:34.39 | balrog-kun | did the vibrator GPIO change place since Bv3? |
| 22:34.50 | stefan_schmidt | balrog-kun: yes |
| 22:35.08 | balrog-kun | stefan_schmidt: thanks, gonna look it up |
| 22:35.34 | balrog-kun | i noticed the new u-boot doesn't talk to the vibrator in qemu |
| 22:35.43 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: We also work with Ben Dooks, so if you have a request I think Harald and Ben should be able to help you a bit perhaps. |
| 22:37.10 | Elrond | ossman - The holder is *censored*. If you want, I can dig up the bug logs about it. |
| 22:37.32 | balrog-kun | are there other GPIOs that changed place recently? |
| 22:37.45 | ossman | stefan_schmidt, first I'd just like to know if they have an interest in maintaing a driver in mainline. most of the samsung code in the kernel seems to come from other parties |
| 22:38.04 | stefan_schmidt | balrog-kun: Sorry, no idea. Just had vibrator in mind. |
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| 22:38.24 | ossman | Elrond, I get the picture :) |
| 22:38.30 | balrog-kun | stefan_schmidt: okay, thanks, i will find some ChangeLog |
| 22:38.53 | XorA|gone | ossman: I work with Samsung to push sound for some stuff to mainline |
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| 22:39.34 | ossman | XorA|gone, will it be you or samsung that maintains it though? |
| 22:39.50 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: I think Ben would be the best person for such questions. If we need more pressure some contacts from FIC/OpenMoko could help of course, too. |
| 22:39.59 | XorA|gone | ossman: me, as they happen to use my companies chips |
| 22:40.55 | ossman | now I'm confused. the chips are produced by you, sold to samsung, which in turn sells them to fic? |
| 22:41.15 | XorA|gone | ossman: FIC also use chips from my company |
| 22:41.51 | ossman | XorA|gone, but how did samsung get into that chain? :) |
| 22:43.01 | XorA|gone | ossman: sounds runs over I2S or AC97 buses on s3c24XX cpu familly, I maintain the codec drivers and the i2s/ac97 protocol drivers for samsung, Ben Dooks supplied the i2s driver, samsung supplied the ac97 driver to me |
| 22:44.09 | ossman | ok |
| 22:44.29 | ossman | stefan_schmidt, I've registered in the bugzilla now in case you want to attach me to some bugs |
| 22:45.04 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: ok |
| 22:45.41 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: which email? |
| 22:45.58 | ossman | drzeus-buzilla at drzeus.cx |
| 22:46.03 | ossman | bugzilla |
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| 22:48.10 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: Assigned you the SDHC bug |
| 22:48.32 | ossman | great |
| 22:48.53 | ossman | btw, what's with the lack of stylus? |
| 22:49.07 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: Don't ask :( |
| 22:49.19 | ossman | :) |
| 22:49.51 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: But hey, now you have a 4-feature stylus. ;) |
| 22:50.13 | ossman | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards |
| 22:50.21 | ossman | is this still accurate? |
| 22:51.11 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: Should be mostly |
| 22:52.00 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: Harald fixed some nasty SD/MMC problem in u-boot I hope that is what the last collum reflects |
| 22:52.14 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: Let me check svn which rev this was |
| 22:52.15 | Elrond | balrog-kun - GPIOs: There's a *.h with per hw-revision GPIO naming. |
| 22:53.03 | ossman | stefan_schmidt, ok. otherwise that might be something I can look at |
| 22:53.27 | ossman | I can also take a whack at #282 if I get access to a card |
| 22:53.36 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: Updates are always welcome for this table. I gues you should have one or two different cards. ;) |
| 22:53.59 | ossman | only one I'm afraid. I have mostly full size cards |
| 22:54.24 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: ah, damn |
| 22:55.55 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: I can't make the decision if we could send you a bunch of problematic cards, but I like the idea. |
| 22:56.49 | SpeedEvil | Someone has to make a microSD to SD adaptor don't they? |
| 22:57.29 | stefan_schmidt | SpeedEvil: Harald soldered some wire on it once for testing. I would not call this an adapter though ;) |
| 22:58.11 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - i was meaning something with a flex-cable. |
| 22:58.24 | Elrond | hehe. |
| 22:58.42 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - I might test with the microsd of my dad's phone ;o) |
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| 22:59.41 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Would be good |
| 22:59.52 | ossman | is battery required to boot? |
| 22:59.58 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 23:00.07 | SpeedEvil | Well - or some low impedance source of 3-4V |
| 23:00.31 | ossman | but USB is insufficient? |
| 23:00.38 | SpeedEvil | It won't boot off USB |
| 23:00.46 | SpeedEvil | it starts in 'low power' mode - 100mA limit |
| 23:00.50 | SpeedEvil | and that can't power it. |
| 23:01.26 | Elrond | It should be enough to power the CPU, which then could request 500. |
| 23:01.33 | SpeedEvil | True. |
| 23:01.41 | SpeedEvil | But not in the current state of the code. |
| 23:01.50 | SpeedEvil | As it tries to wake the display |
| 23:01.55 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: The table seems to be up-to-date after the last u-boot fix |
| 23:02.20 | balrog-kun | Elrond: thanks |
| 23:02.51 | balrog-kun | i remembered there were header files with the GPIO wirings but i was looking at u-boot patches instead of kernel now and i was confused because everything was inline |
| 23:03.11 | Elrond | balrog-kun - Ahh. |
| 23:03.19 | ossman | application-wise, what should be functional? |
| 23:03.27 | Elrond | I haven't understood, why u-boot has code for the vibrator, anyway. |
| 23:03.47 | balrog-kun | Elrond: it's only for the "neo1973 vibrator (on|off)" command i think |
| 23:04.02 | balrog-kun | so you can use e.g in scripts etc |
| 23:04.09 | SpeedEvil | Should be able to turn it off on boot. |
| 23:04.14 | balrog-kun | s/use/\& it/ |
| 23:04.16 | SpeedEvil | If it can do that, then ... |
| 23:05.21 | Elrond | Ahhh, turning it off at boot is a good idea. |
| 23:05.41 | ossman | stefan_schmidt, do you know what is needed on the debug boards to get a "normal" serial and jtag? |
| 23:05.47 | Elrond | But wouldn't it just make sense to put all GPIOs to 0 at boot and then the important ones back to 1? |
| 23:06.08 | Elrond | ossman - It's on the wiki about the debug board. |
| 23:06.38 | Elrond | ossman - http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Connecting_Neo1973_with_Debug_Board_v2 |
| 23:06.50 | ossman | Elrond, that isn't entirely the same board they ship out |
| 23:06.57 | ossman | mine's missing pieces :/ |
| 23:07.05 | Elrond | Huh! |
| 23:07.36 | Elrond | ossman - Then kick someone until the wiki is updated for debug board v*. ;o) |
| 23:07.43 | ossman | :) |
| 23:07.52 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: huh, what is missing? |
| 23:08.00 | ossman | pin headers at least |
| 23:08.05 | CoreDump|home | that looks like my P0 devboard |
| 23:08.09 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: That's normal |
| 23:08.34 | ossman | I have no doubt about that. I was just wondering if that's all that is missing to turn it into a generic jtag if |
| 23:08.59 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: Indeed, for generic JTAG you need the header |
| 23:09.05 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: For neo JTAG not |
| 23:09.16 | ossman | there are some empty pads near that header |
| 23:09.40 | cjb | ossman: Yeah, I think you just need those pads populated. |
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| 23:10.06 | ossman | cjb, argh! I can't hide anywhere! |
| 23:10.42 | Elrond | debug board v2 pic: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Neo1973_debugboard_v2_top_annotated.jpg |
| 23:10.46 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: btw, werner checks the problematic cards he has again with newer software to verify |
| 23:10.55 | ossman | stefan_schmidt, sounds good |
| 23:11.16 | cjb | Elrond: the boards we actually received don't have pins on the bottom ports. |
| 23:11.27 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: With tracking main perhaps some problems are already gone |
| 23:11.39 | ossman | cjb, and I wonder what that jumper is doing there |
| 23:12.29 | Elrond | cjb - Ahh, so they sent v2-simple instead of v2.... |
| 23:12.45 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: ok, what is missing on your board against the picture? |
| 23:12.59 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: Just the two pin header downside? |
| 23:13.38 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: If yes, that's totaly fine |
| 23:13.39 | cjb | stefan_schmidt: the "non-neo1973" ports are bare. |
| 23:13.45 | ossman | stefan_schmidt, as far as I can tell. but I thought it'd be better to ask someone involved in the process :) |
| 23:13.54 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: same here |
| 23:14.24 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: They decided that people interested in using it for other devices should be able to solder pin header itself. :) |
| 23:14.42 | cjb | yeah :) |
| 23:14.42 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: So you board is ready |
| 23:14.50 | ossman | no sweat. I just didn't know if that was it |
| 23:15.12 | ossman | but the jumper still isn't explained ;) |
| 23:15.29 | stefan_schmidt | ossman: No idea about it, sorry. |
| 23:16.20 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - Is the FPC as fragile, as some people noted? |
| 23:16.36 | CoreDump|home | Elrond: yes |
| 23:16.51 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Just be careful :) |
| 23:17.17 | CoreDump|home | I wish FIC had used a somewhat more rigid cable :\ |
| 23:17.24 | stefan_schmidt | I had no problems with it yet, but did not used it much on the other hand |
| 23:17.35 | stefan_schmidt | CoreDump|home: ACK |
| 23:18.08 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - I hope not to need it ever :-) |
| 23:18.13 | stefan_schmidt | CoreDump|home: It's a question to find something that fit the needed numbers of wires and place on pcb |
| 23:18.19 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: heh |
| 23:18.59 | CoreDump|home | stefan_schmidt: I know =) |
| 23:20.51 | stefan_schmidt | I would prefer an external connector for this anyway. As the data connectors from older siemens phones for example. |
| 23:20.52 | stefan_schmidt | That would also help people like SpeedEvil to build extensions |
| 23:20.52 | Elrond | So except for the fragile sd-holder (and sim holder), how does the rest of the hardware feel? |
| 23:20.52 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: good |
| 23:20.52 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: bv4 better then bv3 |
| 23:20.52 | Elrond | Good :-) |
| 23:20.57 | stefan_schmidt | Connector: Perhaps even something like empty extension cases with preinstalled connector for hardware hacking |
| 23:21.20 | stefan_schmidt | With i2c, SPI and GPIO on the connector that would rock |
| 23:21.22 | stefan_schmidt | :) |
| 23:21.48 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - The siemens ones mostly have rs232 on it. |
| 23:22.08 | stefan_schmidt | But I think we will see how the neo1973 will sell and how much more phone generation we can produce |
| 23:22.42 | Elrond | [wishlist] a rugged version. ;o) |
| 23:22.48 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Yeah, I know. Just refer to the type of connector. Something robust on the bottom. |
| 23:23.08 | Elrond | Ahh, yeah. |
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| 23:45.43 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03andrew * r1948 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (304 files in 25 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 23:45.43 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Merge changes from cvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/qemu. |
| 23:45.43 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Merge Paul Brook's I2C/SMBus framework and drop our own I2C fwk. |
| 23:45.43 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Rewrite interrupt handling to use the new framework. |
| 23:45.43 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Update MMC host to use the new APIs. Update CPU selection to the new API. |
| 23:45.46 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Rewrite GPIO handling to use only the IRQ fwk. |
| 23:45.48 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Convert memory mapping to the Fabrice Bellard's new API. Convert I2C slaves and S3C2410 I2C master to new API. |
| 23:47.09 | Maulkin | counter |
| 23:47.10 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 3 days 06:06:30 (3.255 +-3.3 days) (1149;201) |
| 23:47.15 | Maulkin | bah |
| 23:48.12 | CoreDump|home | P1 is coming Real Soon |
| 23:49.33 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Wish_List_UserProfile_Employee]] [[Wish_List_UserProfile_Child]] |
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