| 00:06.00 | peeps | well, i just saw this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone |
| 00:06.06 | peeps | says Mini b there |
| 00:06.08 | peeps | who knows |
| 00:06.37 | peeps | only FIC i guess |
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| 00:08.15 | ozamosi | I'd trust the first page more than the second. |
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| 00:15.22 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1234 10/trunk/oe/packages/uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb: Fix ordering of do_deploy in uboot to be compatible with rm_work (Closees: #225) |
| 00:18.51 | zecke | dejavu hmm |
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| 00:25.22 | ketralnis | G'day all |
| 00:26.04 | darmou | hi ketralinis welcome to another Sun morning in Aust ;) |
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| 00:28.15 | peeps | howdy |
| 00:29.21 | ketralnis | I have some questions about the OpenMoko, if anyone with direct or indirect knowledge is willing to field them. First, is there a release date? What happened to the plans in Jan and Feb? Second, is the phone planning to be released "unlocked," if not, what carriers will it support? |
| 00:29.21 | aloril | ketralnis: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 00:29.28 | SpeedEvil | faq? |
| 00:29.29 | aloril | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ |
| 00:29.47 | SpeedEvil | Delay, march, yes, all GSM ones. |
| 00:29.54 | ketralnis | Ah hah! I didn't see that on the main page, thank you |
| 00:29.54 | SpeedEvil | late march |
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| 00:32.09 | Elrond | ketralnis - no locked at all. |
| 00:32.18 | Elrond | I hope the TI chip can't be locked... |
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| 00:36.47 | SpeedEvil | I hope it can be. |
| 00:37.09 | SpeedEvil | Why shouldn't the neo be able to go out locked to one carrier, but otherwise functional, for a substantial discount. |
| 00:38.01 | newmedian | I would prefer not to cater to their phone & feature locking mentality. No need to encourage them to continue with that practice. |
| 00:38.15 | ketralnis | That's true, but it makes it more difficult to find one if you don't know whether it's unlocked |
| 00:38.17 | mjr | newmedian, indeed |
| 00:38.23 | SpeedEvil | Phone locking - for a subsidy, I have no problem with. |
| 00:38.27 | SpeedEvil | Feature locking is evil. |
| 00:39.11 | newmedian | If they are only sold unlocked, there is no guesswork. |
| 00:39.44 | SpeedEvil | If you can't figure out if a phone is locked or not, you're probably not going to get the most out of the phone. |
| 00:40.03 | SpeedEvil | You look for a sim-free phone, or order it direct from FIC. |
| 00:40.04 | ketralnis | I'm not sure that the inherently open architecture in the OpenMoko would make it "easy" to do feature-locking, which is a good thing |
| 00:40.26 | SpeedEvil | True. |
| 00:40.30 | newmedian | True, if you're a developer. But consider that the phone is going to be mass marketed. People who take their locked version overseas and it doesn't work, will just have a negative connotation with the phone. |
| 00:41.19 | SpeedEvil | I don't really care. |
| 00:41.28 | SpeedEvil | It's no different from any other phone in that respect. |
| 00:41.52 | newmedian | If everything is targeted just to developers, as a subset, then the market segment is too small, not enough hardware will be sold, and then the next version won't be built. So, perhaps we should care. |
| 00:42.17 | SpeedEvil | This version will be unlocked - as it's SIMless. |
| 00:42.25 | SpeedEvil | you supply your own SIM. |
| 00:42.57 | SpeedEvil | I'm talking about when it hits P2, we want it available, subsidised, from T-mobile, Virgin, Orange, ... |
| 00:43.10 | SpeedEvil | As one of the options of phones when a customer goes into the shop. |
| 00:43.18 | guaqua | or not |
| 00:43.19 | newmedian | okay. |
| 00:43.23 | SpeedEvil | Just as they are currently presented with any other phone. |
| 00:43.34 | SpeedEvil | You can still buy it without the subsidy or lock. |
| 00:43.34 | guaqua | it just might not work with the subsidised model |
| 00:43.45 | SpeedEvil | Just for more. |
| 00:43.52 | newmedian | I think the feature lock thing may be an issue. Too open. :) |
| 00:43.59 | guaqua | and there are also unsubsidised markets available in the world |
| 00:44.00 | SpeedEvil | Feature locking won't work. |
| 00:44.12 | newmedian | SpeedEvil, which is a good thing. :) |
| 00:44.18 | SpeedEvil | Or at least, it won't work without crippling the phone. |
| 00:44.55 | SpeedEvil | It'd be fairly easy for a supplier to lock down the phone so much that it requires a debug board to flash it. |
| 00:45.16 | SpeedEvil | My main point is: Come September, we don't want volume. We want VOLUME. |
| 00:45.25 | SpeedEvil | It needs to be in stores. |
| 00:45.45 | guaqua | and there are smarter markets than the us markets |
| 00:45.46 | SpeedEvil | If carriers can be gotten behind it, then they can do that. |
| 00:46.03 | guaqua | so the us markets might not be needed |
| 00:46.03 | SpeedEvil | It's irrelevant. |
| 00:46.05 | Elrond | T-Mobile in .de once sold unlocked phones together with their SIMs. |
| 00:46.15 | guaqua | what's irrelevant? |
| 00:46.32 | SpeedEvil | If the carrier is willing to provide a subsidy with a new phone and a contract, and that new phone can be a neo - why not? |
| 00:47.31 | newmedian | It would be nice if the neo would mate with the http://phonelabs.com/ Dock-N-Talk |
| 00:47.32 | SpeedEvil | And the user understands of course. |
| 00:48.22 | Elrond | I doubt users will understand. But I don't know, really. |
| 00:48.48 | Elrond | They might go like "free phone, cool. Means I can swap another SIM." |
| 00:49.03 | Elrond | ... and be pissed. |
| 00:49.25 | guaqua | the users do care, and the carriers do care |
| 00:49.32 | Elrond | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:49.42 | SpeedEvil | Well - in practice, every user that knows about swapping SIMs - or at least most - know about this issue. |
| 00:49.48 | Elrond | But I might be completely wrong. |
| 00:49.59 | SpeedEvil | The Dock-N-talk thing should work just fine. |
| 00:50.13 | SpeedEvil | The headset connector is compatible with the samsung A1200 |
| 00:50.15 | Elrond | What's "dock-n-talk"? |
| 00:50.19 | SpeedEvil | and other phones. |
| 00:50.32 | newmedian | SpeedEvil, ah, interesting. It also has a Bluetooth module. |
| 00:50.51 | Elrond | <-- boot webbrowser. |
| 00:50.57 | guaqua | you are very optimistic about this issue |
| 00:51.22 | SpeedEvil | what issue? |
| 00:51.50 | guaqua | the issue with significant majority of phones selling subsidised |
| 00:51.51 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: It's basically a 'plug mobile into thingy' and it pretends it's a 'norma;l' phone line |
| 00:52.39 | newmedian | SpeedEvil, Elrond, the magic comes into play when you hook the Dock-N-Talk to an FXO Port on a card like the Digium TDM400P, and run Asterisk. Then you can gateway your GSM calls to/from VOIP and PSTN. |
| 00:53.05 | SpeedEvil | If the carriers provide the subsidy anyway. Why should not the neo take a slice of the market? Why would the user expect it to be different to other phones? |
| 00:53.09 | guaqua | i mean, a neo can also be built customized to a carrier's brand and all the shebang, but if that's the case i can't really see a potential for other sorts of open source software |
| 00:53.19 | SpeedEvil | newmedian: naah - run asterisk on the phone. |
| 00:53.47 | SpeedEvil | I don't see a problem with it coming with a custom set of apps and branding, as long as the user can change them. |
| 00:53.49 | newmedian | SpeedEvil, well if it can be done on a WRT54GS, then why not a neo. :) |
| 00:54.11 | SpeedEvil | If the carriers are willing to do the subsidy, without locking down the features, then I think it's win-win. |
| 00:54.17 | guaqua | off course |
| 00:54.45 | SpeedEvil | The ideal case is that the carriers start demanding openmoko phones. |
| 00:55.05 | SpeedEvil | And nokia/... get into the buisness. |
| 00:55.11 | guaqua | yep |
| 00:55.36 | guaqua | it would be the beginning of OS in phones |
| 00:56.36 | guaqua | most important thing the traditional makers would bring would be design and actual sales channels |
| 00:56.41 | Elrond | Hmmm, locking down the features is easy... set u-boot timeout to 0, no menu. Put lock up root. ;o) |
| 00:56.55 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 00:57.00 | SpeedEvil | You can still JTAG it. |
| 00:57.12 | Elrond | Right. If you have the debug board. |
| 00:57.42 | Elrond | There be new business then: "Send in phone, we'll unlock at least the CPU. We can't unlock the SIM." ;o) |
| 00:57.44 | guaqua | Elrond: and if there's a shop on the mall to do it easily for you and flash the device... |
| 00:58.30 | SpeedEvil | I just wish there was a nice connetor in the battery bay. |
| 00:58.31 | Elrond | For guaqua s/send in phone/come over, give use the phone and wait: / |
| 00:58.32 | newmedian | yeah, e.g. http://www.bongowireless.com/ is one of the popular ones in Toronto |
| 00:58.51 | SpeedEvil | I mean, there is just about space for a 0.5mm*10 circuit connector just next to the battery connector. |
| 00:59.25 | SpeedEvil | USB, I2C, power, and it's ideal. |
| 01:00.27 | guaqua | going to sleep now anyway. tequila and mobile phone carrier politics don't mix too well. night night :) |
| 01:00.47 | Elrond | Well, unless they get TI specs, things like http://www.bongowireless.com/ can't unlock the TI (assuming it has locking features.) |
| 01:00.49 | SpeedEvil | Wave. |
| 01:00.52 | newmedian | you need to take it with some salt ;) |
| 01:01.07 | guaqua | had plenty of salt, but not lemon :S |
| 01:01.26 | Elrond | Need bed soon instead of salt. |
| 01:01.33 | SpeedEvil | I don't know how easy it is to unlock the TI device once you have the docs. |
| 01:01.54 | guaqua | think so too :) have fun speculating. i just hope everything turns out the right way, the OS way :) |
| 01:02.00 | SpeedEvil | I mean, if it's trivial - it may be a bit of info that could be sold for a few thousand dollars already by someone in TI. |
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| 01:04.36 | SpeedEvil | In the CCD department? |
| 01:05.31 | aevin | SpeedEvil: no, in the Low Power Wireless in .no |
| 01:06.06 | SpeedEvil | Been waiting ages for an interesting CCD to turn up as orderable... |
| 01:07.07 | ebel | Is there standalone bluetooth wifi dongles? |
| 01:07.07 | aloril | When version 1 was designed there was no sufficiently low-power WiFi chip available which has an open driver. You can attach (battery) powered USB hub to Neo1973 and then use supported WiFi USB stick. Also some model later this year probably will include WiFi. For more information see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 01:08.09 | aevin | that sees like an automated reply triggering on questions containing "wifi"... :) |
| 01:08.16 | ebel | i.e. so you could give it wifi-over-bluetooth? I've seen some 'wifi and bluetooth' usb dongles via searches, but they'd probably need external power... |
| 01:08.25 | aevin | seems |
| 01:08.36 | SpeedEvil | there are wifi-bluetooth bridging solutions. |
| 01:09.33 | ebel | That would effectivly 'solve' the wifi thing. |
| 01:11.22 | SpeedEvil | Not really. |
| 01:11.28 | SpeedEvil | Tehy are not very portable. |
| 01:15.56 | ebel | No? I've seen bluetooth GPS gadgets, which you could use on a smartphone without GPS. Thought there might be something like that for wifi. |
| 01:16.53 | SpeedEvil | I've not seen an integrated unit. |
| 01:17.57 | ebel | Bummer. |
| 01:19.32 | aevin | SpeedEvil: you mean BT+Wifi IC? |
| 01:19.37 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 01:19.45 | SpeedEvil | I mean a thing in the shops. |
| 01:19.54 | aevin | aha. |
| 01:19.59 | SpeedEvil | With BT-wifi converter written on it. |
| 01:20.17 | ebel | Like a little external dongle with bluetooth wifi and a battery. |
| 01:20.24 | SpeedEvil | yeaj |
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| 02:28.11 | Readon | hello |
| 02:29.03 | Readon | when i build openmoko i received the message "NOTE: Task failed: Fetch failed: ftp://ftp.astron.com/pub/file/file-4.18.tar.gz |
| 02:29.03 | Readon | NOTE: package file-native-4.18-r1: task do_fetch: failed |
| 02:29.03 | Readon | ERROR: TaskFailed event exception, aborting" |
| 02:30.11 | Readon | so i download file-4.18.tar.gz to sources dir from other site, but it still report the same error. how to fix that? |
| 02:30.12 | aloril | Readon: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 02:30.17 | SpeedEvil | ==> PORT ... done. ==> RETR file-4.18.tar.gz ... |
| 02:30.17 | SpeedEvil | No such file `file-4.18.tar.gz'. |
| 02:30.39 | SpeedEvil | the trivialway is to change the URL to that of the other site. |
| 02:31.16 | loufoque | what will the terminal of openmoko be based on? |
| 02:31.35 | Readon | but how to change that, i'am new comer. |
| 02:31.43 | jebba | would be cool if OE would grab from the upstream site and if that wasn't there would failover to an OE archive... The 404 thing is pretty common... |
| 02:31.54 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 02:32.01 | jebba | loufoque, the terminal? rxvt if that's what you mean |
| 02:32.24 | jebba | Readon, cd sources/ and wget `file` from another place |
| 02:32.59 | loufoque | doesn't it need to be adapted in order to look good on a phone and be usable with the stylus? |
| 02:33.31 | jebba | well, it could use a virtual keyboard. But what would have to be adapted other than input? |
| 02:33.48 | Readon | jebba, i have down load the file into source manually. |
| 02:34.00 | SpeedEvil | Howlarge is it? |
| 02:34.02 | jebba | Readon, ya, that's one way to solve your problem |
| 02:34.21 | jebba | SpeedEvil, you asking me? howlarge is what? rxvt? |
| 02:34.29 | SpeedEvil | never mind. |
| 02:34.56 | SpeedEvil | I was asking Readon how large the file is - however, changing the URL to a working one is the werong solution. |
| 02:35.04 | Readon | jebba, but the bitbake still trying to grab one |
| 02:35.41 | Readon | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:35.47 | Readon | SpeedEvil |
| 02:36.57 | loufoque | jebba: It would need to use the OpenMoko framework to integrate well with the rest of the UI |
| 02:38.25 | jebba | Readon, in the Building section in the FAQ check for #fixes and see `touch` about files you need to `touch` in build/tmp/stamps |
| 02:39.31 | jebba | loufoque, well, it's just based on gtk. You could use gnome-terminal to make it look similar if you wanted bloat, i guess. But if you're opening a console who really gives a damn about integrating /that/ with the rest. ;) |
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| 02:42.16 | Readon | jebba, done thanks |
| 02:42.47 | loufoque | jebba: I do. |
| 02:43.34 | loufoque | jebba: a terminal that doesn't look good, where is the text is unreadable or where inputting and managing text is difficult is not very usable. |
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| 02:48.25 | jebba | loufoque, well you can make the fonts bigger to make them unreadable. Inputting text is another issue... but an onscreen keyboard can do that. |
| 02:48.34 | jebba | s/unreadable/readable |
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| 02:49.26 | jebba | that said, feel free to add your ideas to the various Wishlists: in the wiki :) |
| 02:55.04 | loufoque | if the terminal could support w3m that would be nice |
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| 06:56.50 | Sargun | hi |
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| 07:31.05 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1235 10/developers/werner/dfu-util-alt-by-name.patch: |
| 07:31.05 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Add Altsetting lookup by name to dfu-util. (Proposed patch.) |
| 07:31.05 | CIA-7 | openmoko: main.c: removed PAGE_SIZE comment |
| 07:31.05 | CIA-7 | openmoko: main.c (help): fixed "Altseting" typo |
| 07:31.05 | CIA-7 | openmoko: main.c (main, help, alt_by_name): added lookup of dif->altsetting by name |
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| 09:41.01 | NTNP | salut tlm |
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| 11:46.38 | *** topic/#openmoko by SpeedEvil -> OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> {www|wiki|bugzilla|planet|projects|lists|svn|svnweb } .openmoko.org | You can buy it around the end of this month for $350, see the wiki. Mass market in September. |
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| 13:07.37 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1236 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/src/sam7dfu.c: make sure we don't get division-by-zero if downloading less than 50 bytes |
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| 13:33.55 | deadchip | guys where are openmoko-libs located now? |
| 13:33.56 | aloril | deadchip: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 13:34.11 | deadchip | ah eh aloril |
| 13:34.14 | deadchip | ok let's see |
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| 13:43.15 | Elrond | counter |
| 13:43.16 | aloril | P0: 23:08:22 (0.964 +-1.0 days); P1: 32.928 +-10.0 (see faq) (458) |
| 13:43.29 | LuitvD | really getting close now huh? :P |
| 13:44.11 | deadchip | btw guys |
| 13:44.21 | deadchip | i'm checking out OM since i'm the main developer you've based simplemediaplayer on |
| 13:44.48 | LuitvD | ah, nice |
| 13:44.49 | deadchip | i'm going to try to just run it on Xephyr for now, maybe we can actually help to fix some of the really whacked code in it |
| 13:45.45 | LuitvD | this channel is a little dead lately... little silent |
| 13:46.05 | LuitvD | I hope some core people will come online soon.. |
| 13:46.20 | LuitvD | (or stop being idle) |
| 13:46.55 | koen | p0 ships tomorrow |
| 13:47.05 | koen | prod ups/fedex/dhl to work faster :) |
| 13:47.08 | LuitvD | :) |
| 13:47.27 | deadchip | i think i'm going to buy the developer preview release of the phone really |
| 13:47.37 | deadchip | i was waiting for a few years for a project like this to come up really |
| 13:47.48 | deadchip | and how it looks so far, is quite great :) |
| 13:48.01 | LuitvD | deadchip: get in line :) |
| 13:48.16 | deadchip | heeh |
| 13:48.25 | deadchip | :) |
| 13:48.32 | DesktopMa | is there a line yet? :P |
| 13:49.00 | LuitvD | something like it |
| 13:49.00 | LuitvD | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buying_Interest_List |
| 13:49.07 | LuitvD | the buying interest list |
| 13:49.18 | LuitvD | though not really official, and far from binding |
| 13:49.58 | koen | heh |
| 13:49.58 | koen | "Hell yes! PDA/GPS/Phone, but need to add WLAN and Bluetooth." |
| 13:49.58 | LuitvD | ... |
| 13:49.58 | koen | people want *2* bluetooth interfaces?!?!?! |
| 13:49.58 | LuitvD | wahahaha |
| 13:49.59 | LuitvD | that's evil |
| 13:50.03 | LuitvD | who said that? |
| 13:50.14 | koen | #115 on the list you linked to |
| 13:50.15 | thresh_ | to receive and submit porn |
| 13:50.17 | thresh_ | in one time |
| 13:50.28 | LuitvD | koen: lolz |
| 13:50.50 | LuitvD | that dumb twat |
| 13:51.19 | thresh_ | there are some ubunties there too |
| 13:51.31 | thresh_ | maybe someone should tell them about the force of apt-cache search |
| 13:51.32 | koen | is that contagious? |
| 13:51.42 | thresh_ | to be able to connect their mobiles to "ubuntu OpenSource" |
| 13:52.42 | LuitvD | koen: was it P1 or P1+ which should have I2C and SPI solder pads? |
| 13:53.02 | koen | p1 aiui |
| 13:53.11 | LuitvD | hmm... |
| 13:53.13 | deadchip | 2 bluetooth ifaces?lol |
| 13:53.18 | LuitvD | XD |
| 13:53.21 | deadchip | the 1 i have in my camera doesn't even work haha |
| 13:53.35 | LuitvD | BT in a cam? |
| 13:53.38 | LuitvD | nice... |
| 13:53.39 | deadchip | maybe it's just borked windows system software that doesn't work with it |
| 13:53.50 | deadchip | yeah it's quite nice just that, well, i wasn't really able to use it riht |
| 13:53.52 | deadchip | right* |
| 13:54.05 | LuitvD | there are BT photo printers too :) |
| 13:54.06 | deadchip | the cam is from Kodak though so i trust that it was the error on the peer devices so far |
| 13:54.10 | deadchip | yeah :) |
| 13:54.23 | LuitvD | which kodak device is it? |
| 13:54.30 | deadchip | LuitvD: V610 |
| 13:54.33 | koen | LuitvD: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware |
| 13:54.41 | Elrond | How is security on BT these days? |
| 13:54.46 | deadchip | ah |
| 13:54.59 | LuitvD | koen: what's with that? |
| 13:55.10 | koen | LuitvD: that answers your question |
| 13:55.18 | LuitvD | ah,,, right |
| 13:55.20 | koen | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:55.20 | koen | This is the version that will be shipped in Phase 1 |
| 13:55.20 | koen | [edit] |
| 13:55.20 | koen | Changes from GTA01Bv3 |
| 13:55.20 | koen | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:55.21 | koen | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:55.38 | LuitvD | hmmmmm |
| 13:55.40 | LuitvD | tasty |
| 13:55.56 | LuitvD | I2C, SPI and IRQ :D exactly what I need |
| 13:56.15 | Elrond | koen - Will p0 be Bv03 or Bv04? |
| 13:56.22 | Elrond | ... is that known? |
| 13:56.23 | SpeedEvil | 3 |
| 13:56.29 | SpeedEvil | 4 is p1 |
| 13:56.40 | koen | Elrond: check the page I linked to :) |
| 13:56.45 | SpeedEvil | p0 will have _serious_ hardware bugs. |
| 13:56.54 | koen | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:56.54 | koen | This is the second produced version of the bluetooth-enabled version. It contains mainly GPS-related fixes. |
| 13:56.54 | koen | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:56.54 | koen | This is the version that is shipped in Phase 0 |
| 13:56.58 | SpeedEvil | Mmostly impacting on battery life though. |
| 13:57.07 | deadchip | ah |
| 13:57.09 | deadchip | the P850 looks nice |
| 13:57.13 | deadchip | mine is, simpler, heh |
| 13:57.15 | LuitvD | :) |
| 13:57.16 | thresh_ | ~counter |
| 13:57.23 | thresh_ | counter |
| 13:57.23 | aloril | P0: 23:01:20 (0.959 +-1.0 days); P1: 32.919 +-10.0 (see faq) (459) |
| 13:57.23 | thresh_ | :/ |
| 13:57.24 | koen | SpeedEvil: those errata are documented in the document I linked to :) |
| 13:57.24 | SpeedEvil | I really want the I2C/SPI/usb broagut out on one connector. |
| 13:57.28 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 13:57.48 | SpeedEvil | Next to the battery connector in the back. |
| 13:57.59 | deadchip | it's too bad konica sold out to Sony |
| 13:58.02 | deadchip | i really liked their cameras |
| 13:58.22 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
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| 13:59.35 | SpeedEvil | The solder pads are just fine for me. |
| 13:59.35 | deadchip | hrm seems i have to install more of the platform |
| 13:59.35 | SpeedEvil | I want to make stuff for users. |
| 13:59.36 | SpeedEvil | And solder pads are not OK for users. |
| 13:59.36 | LuitvD | ... |
| 13:59.36 | koen | I finally have a dvb-t tower nearby enough, so I can now safely start doing |
| 13:59.36 | koen | OMG DVB!!!!! |
| 13:59.37 | LuitvD | I want to have a Neo1973 as my robot remote control :) |
| 13:59.37 | DesktopMa | DS is cheaper :P |
| 13:59.40 | LuitvD | koen: are you going to OMG DVB every time a signal comes near? :P |
| 13:59.53 | koen | :D |
| 13:59.58 | LuitvD | no TV is the cheapest :) |
| 14:00.29 | SpeedEvil | Fun SPI chip: http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/3639 a SPI USB host/peripheral controller. |
| 14:00.38 | SpeedEvil | with some GPIOs too. |
| 14:01.14 | SpeedEvil | And relatively cheap. ($4 at 1k) |
| 14:01.29 | koen | SpeedEvil: only 12mbit usb, though |
| 14:01.51 | SpeedEvil | Well - you'd be pushed to get USB2 speeds over SPI :) |
| 14:02.13 | koen | SpeedEvil: details..... |
| 14:02.33 | SpeedEvil | It's not so needed for the neo. |
| 14:02.55 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Hmm, What does a spi-uart cost? |
| 14:03.09 | SpeedEvil | It's not really that sort of thing. |
| 14:03.24 | SpeedEvil | It's an internal bus more than a uart as traditionally thought of. |
| 14:03.30 | SpeedEvil | it tends to be built into stuff. |
| 14:03.33 | DesktopMa | 12 speed AVR microcontrollers can software implement usb 1.1 |
| 14:03.35 | SpeedEvil | easy to bit-bag. |
| 14:03.44 | DesktopMa | err, 12 mhz |
| 14:03.58 | LuitvD | LOL, 12 speed XD |
| 14:04.15 | Lumpio- | Put your helmets on, we'll be reaching speeds of 3! |
| 14:04.17 | SpeedEvil | True - I was more thinking of to add it to otherwise non-USB stuff, with a parallel port. |
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| 14:04.41 | Lumpio- | Or should I say 12 >_> |
| 14:04.43 | LuitvD | Lumpio-: Speed up to mark 2 |
| 14:04.47 | DesktopMa | lol |
| 14:04.49 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - A friend needs to connect a 3V rs232 to a uC that obly has spi... That's why I ask. ;) |
| 14:05.06 | SpeedEvil | Oh - right. |
| 14:05.08 | parag0n | he could use an AVR |
| 14:05.15 | SpeedEvil | I think I've seen those, for not much. |
| 14:05.40 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - He said, it would be like 7Eur. |
| 14:05.43 | SpeedEvil | google SPI UART I suppose. |
| 14:05.48 | SpeedEvil | Sounds about right. |
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| 14:06.14 | LuitvD | most Microchip PIC chips have SPI... |
| 14:06.23 | SpeedEvil | Yeah, you can do that. |
| 14:06.31 | Elrond | Why is the above chip only $4 then? is usb that much easier then rs232?! |
| 14:06.33 | DesktopMa | *annoyed at Sony Ericsson for not putting edge in w880i* |
| 14:06.41 | SpeedEvil | Volume. |
| 14:06.56 | SpeedEvil | The USB chips go into high volume stuff. |
| 14:07.01 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 14:07.04 | SpeedEvil | Lowers prices. |
| 14:07.10 | Elrond | tihi... spi->usb->rs232 ;o) |
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| 14:07.24 | Elrond | (which is probably more than 7 Eur.) |
| 14:07.36 | LuitvD | a max232 chip is only 1,55$ |
| 14:07.52 | LuitvD | and that's 2xRX and 2xTX |
| 14:07.55 | SpeedEvil | If you've got GPIO, you can just bit-bang serial in some cases. |
| 14:08.09 | SpeedEvil | 232 is just a line driver though. |
| 14:08.24 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Yeah, that thing has gpio. But receiving rs232 sounds like fun. ;) |
| 14:08.41 | DesktopMa | UART is tricky to software implement |
| 14:08.43 | SpeedEvil | It's not _that_ bad. |
| 14:08.48 | SpeedEvil | If you've got a good clock. |
| 14:08.51 | DesktopMa | especially if you don't have real time access |
| 14:08.55 | SpeedEvil | If you don't, it gets horrible. |
| 14:09.03 | LuitvD | ... ah right |
| 14:09.07 | LuitvD | forgot that... |
| 14:09.18 | LuitvD | microchips only need a line driver for RS232 : |
| 14:09.19 | LuitvD | :P |
| 14:09.30 | LuitvD | built in USART |
| 14:09.49 | stefan_schmidt | koen: The finger-wheel bug you opened (http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=215) is it similar to #154? Or better, does it only happen openmoko-mainmenu? |
| 14:10.33 | Elrond | LuitvD - line driver? |
| 14:10.40 | koen | stefan_schmidt: it isn't similar |
| 14:10.45 | LuitvD | Elrond: that MAX232 chip |
| 14:10.55 | SpeedEvil | A line driver is a voltage converter |
| 14:11.01 | koen | stefan_schmidt: and how did you get that cool @Openmoko.org address? ;) |
| 14:11.04 | SpeedEvil | it has no gates or other smarts inside. |
| 14:11.16 | stefan_schmidt | koen: So what's the difference? |
| 14:11.25 | stefan_schmidt | koen: Working for openmoko.org. :) |
| 14:11.29 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 14:11.40 | koen | stefan_schmidt: the orange part doesn't crash it, which #154 seems to be about |
| 14:11.41 | stefan_schmidt | koen: 1 month |
| 14:11.54 | Elrond | The one uart of his chip is already blocked. ;) That's why he need some other uart-thingy. ;) |
| 14:12.11 | Elrond | (it's an 8051 based thingy, I think.) |
| 14:12.12 | stefan_schmidt | koen: ok, I try to look into it today |
| 14:12.52 | koen | stefan_schmidt: mickeyl mentioned that the problem after 3 crashes might be some lock file in /tmp |
| 14:13.21 | stefan_schmidt | koen: ok, I keep that in mind |
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| 14:19.14 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 14:20.38 | *** join/#openmoko MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@20150141125.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 14:23.24 | SpeedEvil | On the ongoing phone theft topic on the mailing list. Look at bottom: http://newsoftheweird.com/archive/index.html |
| 14:24.58 | koen | CoreDump|home: I thought you were a p0 dev |
| 14:25.03 | koen | p0 devs get the lunchbox |
| 14:25.07 | CoreDump|home | really? |
| 14:25.13 | *** join/#openmoko KaZm (n=fe@0x57326a51.rdnxx3.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) |
| 14:25.17 | CoreDump|home | I didn't know that |
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| 14:26.21 | KaZm | Hey all. I've been cheking your project out, and find it to be extremely interesting! Couldn't find it on the wiki or lists, but have you considered using jack for audio-routing? |
| 14:26.21 | aloril | KaZm: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 14:26.40 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-233-130.eunet.yu) |
| 14:26.55 | KaZm | Yeah - I cheked the FAQ too, thank you bot :) |
| 14:27.11 | SpeedEvil | hat do you mean by routing? |
| 14:27.19 | SpeedEvil | yes, you can connect a headset |
| 14:27.23 | koen | CoreDump|home: sean said that during the presentation at fosdem |
| 14:27.33 | koen | CoreDump|home: it isn't in the slides, as I expected |
| 14:27.39 | CoreDump|home | ah |
| 14:27.55 | CoreDump|home | I guess I missed that part in the video, thanks. |
| 14:28.13 | KaZm | For example when recording a call you have to combine both input and output audio - that kind of routing. |
| 14:32.20 | DesktopMa | you'd already have a mixer, but might be more optimal to have a dedicated one for the recorder |
| 14:32.29 | koen | KaZm: right now alsa-SoC routes the audio and pulseaudio is being considered for routing to bluetooth headsets |
| 14:33.58 | koen | stefan_schmidt: I added a comment to http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=215 |
| 14:35.16 | stefan_schmidt | koen: Ok, so I can break it down to main-menu. thanks |
| 14:36.04 | koen | stefan_schmidt: I'm waiting for my lab partner to get rid of his hangover, so I have some time to test stuff |
| 14:36.26 | KaZm | koen: Okay, I'm not really that expirenced with jack. I'm sure you'll find the most optimal solution :) |
| 14:36.40 | koen | KaZm: I'm not implementing it :) |
| 14:37.19 | stefan_schmidt | koen: ATM I work on two smaller bugs. I notice you when I have something to test. |
| 14:37.40 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1237 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (sdhc-backport.patch series): add sdhc patch from 2.6.21-rc1 mainline (See: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=93) |
| 14:42.58 | *** join/#openmoko atla (n=atla@p3EE3EC74.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:47.13 | koen | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:47.20 | koen | 11.4% memory |
| 14:50.26 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
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| 14:57.19 | jipi | end of this month, how can we purchase this? |
| 14:57.19 | aloril | jipi: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 15:02.17 | jipi | erm... |
| 15:04.08 | koen | that auto-faq thing is really neat |
| 15:04.17 | koen | I should have had that 3 years ago |
| 15:04.28 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 15:05.22 | Elrond | *G* |
| 15:07.50 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:11.32 | *** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 15:14.33 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1238 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/src/sam7dfu.c: Fixed = vs. == typo. |
| 15:17.35 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1239 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (3 files): |
| 15:17.35 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * move SDHC backport further up in series |
| 15:17.35 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * add YAFFS2 (for experimenting) |
| 15:17.35 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * add Hardware ECC correction for S3C2410 NAND from 2.6.21-rcX |
| 15:19.10 | SpeedEvil | DesktopMa: there are (IIRC) 97 mixers for sound in the neo. |
| 15:19.23 | DesktopMa | right |
| 15:19.31 | SpeedEvil | In all the various hardware deices. |
| 15:21.04 | Elrond | 97 mixers? |
| 15:21.27 | koen | Elrond: 97 different controls |
| 15:21.31 | koen | some are just toggles |
| 15:22.52 | Elrond | All on the WM*? |
| 15:23.02 | koen | iirc, yes |
| 15:23.36 | Elrond | I haven't read its datasheet, but sounds like a mature thing. :) |
| 15:24.00 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1240 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/src/main.c: |
| 15:24.00 | CIA-7 | openmoko: main.c: removed PAGE_SIZE comment |
| 15:24.00 | CIA-7 | openmoko: main.c (help): fixed "Altseting" typo |
| 15:24.00 | CIA-7 | openmoko: main.c (main, help, alt_by_name): added lookup of dif->altsetting by name |
| 15:24.08 | koen | WM codecs are pretty widely used |
| 15:24.17 | koen | ipods, tv capture cards, etc |
| 15:25.09 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 15:29.56 | *** join/#openmoko mrlua (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 15:30.10 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
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| 15:48.31 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1241 10/trunk/oe/conf/distro/openmoko.conf: add PREMIRRORS to primarily pull the code from our server[s]. |
| 15:51.04 | *** join/#openmoko andymk (n=andy@adsl-static-1-193.uklinux.net) |
| 15:52.23 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1242 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/linux-gta01/ (defconfig-2.6.20-fic-gta01 defconfig-2.6.20.1-fic-gta01): enable YAFFS2 |
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| 16:11.21 | LuitvD | damn, I suck at creating Makefiles |
| 16:24.39 | loufoque | LuitvD: then use scons |
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| 17:09.41 | SpeedEvil | Interesting. The google-video of the talk has had a hundred hits in the last couple of days. |
| 17:09.45 | SpeedEvil | (total 167) |
| 17:09.58 | SpeedEvil | rapidshare is at 200. |
| 17:18.27 | *** join/#openmoko atla (n=atla@p3EE3EC74.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 17:47.06 | PBeck | hi |
| 17:51.56 | *** join/#openmoko zween_ (n=zween@m26.net81-64-228.noos.fr) |
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| 17:59.41 | SpeedEvil | PBeck: Nobody is available to take your Hi at the moment, please wait for an operator to become available to take your greeting. |
| 18:01.14 | aloril2 | counter |
| 18:01.14 | aloril | P0: 20:59:23 (0.875 +-0.9 days); P1: 32.749 +-10.0 (see faq) (460) |
| 18:03.45 | *** join/#openmoko cprf_ (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 18:06.46 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: thanks for the info ;) |
| 18:07.04 | PBeck | i hope an operator come on :p |
| 18:10.07 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 18:10.50 | PBeck | http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/fic_neo1973_hackers_lunchbox.jpg <= that is the hackers lunchbox :D |
| 18:11.54 | PBeck | i thought that would be the case for the neo |
| 18:12.31 | PBeck | and yes i thought wth :P a big bag for the neo |
| 18:12.47 | PBeck | but now i know what that is ^^ |
| 18:13.13 | *** join/#openmoko DerCorny (n=corny@62.75.171.150) |
| 18:13.45 | LuitvD | :P |
| 18:13.50 | koen | "the bomb squad' |
| 18:14.08 | LuitvD | openmoko search and deploy team |
| 18:14.55 | LuitvD | (or search and unbrick... that should be possible with the contents of the hackers lunchbox right?) |
| 18:15.11 | koen | i hope it fits into my suitcase |
| 18:15.11 | SpeedEvil | It can't search, only unbrick :) |
| 18:15.21 | LuitvD | lol |
| 18:16.55 | LuitvD | that would be funny... when a neo1973 has some bad problem it sends out a distress signal with GPS coördinates, and that a team of 6-8 people with those 'lunchboxes' come looking for ya :P |
| 18:17.04 | so_solid_moo | shame they don't say more abou the hardware refresh |
| 18:17.18 | LuitvD | so_solid_moo: it'll have to wait |
| 18:17.31 | LuitvD | so_solid_moo: they didn't even fix the p0's faults yet |
| 18:18.06 | so_solid_moo | LuitvD: yeah. I'm guessing that they potentially want to fix p1 faults there or something. |
| 18:18.20 | LuitvD | so_solid_moo: that's not what I'm saying... |
| 18:18.37 | LuitvD | the trouble they are having with p0 now, isn't yet solved... I guess |
| 18:18.41 | PBeck | how look the neo case? :D |
| 18:18.47 | LuitvD | we first need a p1, to have a hardware refresh |
| 18:19.18 | so_solid_moo | LuitvD: sure, but if they're planning p1+, they presumably have an idea of what it's needed for |
| 18:19.20 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:19.57 | LuitvD | so_solid_moo: I think they'll do that hardware refresh the same way as the steps to getting the p0 device |
| 18:20.03 | LuitvD | so_solid_moo: lots of prototyping |
| 18:20.10 | SpeedEvil | I don't think so. |
| 18:20.13 | SpeedEvil | P1 does not end. |
| 18:20.24 | SpeedEvil | It's not one order, you can carry on ordering throughout the period. |
| 18:20.35 | PBeck | how can i break the bootloader? |
| 18:20.40 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:20.48 | SpeedEvil | Basically, flashing u-boot with a broken version. |
| 18:20.56 | koen | PBeck: with a hammer and a chisel |
| 18:20.56 | SpeedEvil | don't flash u-boot with a broken version. |
| 18:21.11 | SpeedEvil | You should only ever need to flash u-boot once. |
| 18:21.18 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: i can only flash with the lunchbox? |
| 18:21.28 | SpeedEvil | No - with a working phone, you can too. |
| 18:21.31 | *** join/#openmoko krau|away (n=cktakaha@20150169002.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 18:21.31 | koen | SpeedEvil: I raise that to 'never' |
| 18:21.34 | SpeedEvil | You can only flash a brick with the JTAG. |
| 18:21.56 | SpeedEvil | You can flash a brick only with the JTAG. |
| 18:22.11 | PBeck | ol |
| 18:22.12 | PBeck | ok |
| 18:22.32 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - the current-then version of u-boot should be fine. |
| 18:23.08 | SpeedEvil | IIRC the very early versions on some of the P-1 devices isn't really ideal. |
| 18:23.59 | vmaster | the changelog from a few days ago mentions an incompatible change that requires an u-boot upgrade, too |
| 18:24.20 | vmaster | when they switched from SW ECC to the S3C2410's HW ECC |
| 18:24.32 | SpeedEvil | It should be perfectly stable by P1 time though. |
| 18:24.38 | SpeedEvil | Barring silly bugs. |
| 18:24.38 | *** join/#openmoko mlpug (n=user@a85-156-253-211.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:26.29 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: ok thats good |
| 18:26.57 | *** join/#openmoko mrlua (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 18:31.40 | denis^da | PBeck, ich wusste ich kenne den Namen irgendwoher (nexave :D) |
| 18:32.43 | PBeck | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:33.14 | PBeck | habe mich schon gefragt wieso du nicht im IRC bist, wenn du dich schon auf der mailingliste und im wiki rumtreibst ;) |
| 18:33.55 | denis^da | haha ich bin schon seit beginn im IRC und hab mich im Forum immer gefragt ob ich den Namen nicht doch irgendwo schon gesehen habe :P |
| 18:34.16 | PBeck | denis^da: ich habe nicht nach diesem nick geschaut sondern nach dem vom forum ^^ |
| 18:34.51 | denis^da | haha ja stimmt ich hab ja hier einen anderen :> |
| 18:35.21 | denis^da | ( PBeck nu bekommen wir gleich wieder einen aufn Deckel von wegen zu viel Deutsch ;) ) |
| 18:37.18 | *** join/#openmoko ynezz_ (i=inezz@195.113.97.158) |
| 18:38.19 | denis^da | was hast du im Moment für einen PDA PBeck ? |
| 18:38.23 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p85.212.11.163.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 18:43.12 | PBeck | denis^da: keinen ;) |
| 18:43.27 | PBeck | denis^da: jo dachte ich mir auch schon, weil du mich deutsch angeredet hast ;) |
| 18:43.35 | PBeck | denis^da: jabber? |
| 18:45.56 | denis^da | PBeck, siehe query |
| 18:46.27 | PBeck | denis^da: anmelden ... |
| 18:46.54 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 18:48.15 | PBeck | denis^da: ? |
| 18:48.56 | PBeck | denis^da: freenode lässt doch keine querys zu wenn man nicht geauthet ist |
| 18:49.03 | denis^da | ach ;> |
| 18:49.09 | PBeck | *geauthed |
| 18:49.15 | denis^da | jetzt versteh ich was du mit anmelden meintest :> |
| 18:49.24 | denis^da | denis_std@jabber.org |
| 18:49.27 | PBeck | ach => wie jo das wusste ich oder ach => wie das wusste ich nicht :P |
| 18:49.30 | denis^da | hab keine lust mich zu authen :D |
| 18:49.58 | PBeck | was hast du gedacht? ;) |
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| 18:52.08 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 18:56.22 | rob_w | nanu , deutsch ? |
| 18:56.28 | *** join/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@c-24-7-58-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 18:57.07 | Harlekin | channel takeover |
| 18:59.25 | *** join/#openmoko vmaster_ (i=vmaster@p5B07D18A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:59.32 | *** join/#openmoko cathal (n=cathal@89.100.101.244) |
| 19:02.16 | PBeck | Harlekin: yes of course |
| 19:02.44 | PBeck | the germans are good in takeovers ;) |
| 19:04.43 | Harlekin | especially unsuccessful ones |
| 19:05.15 | *** part/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@c-24-7-58-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
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| 19:08.46 | PBeck | Harlekin: yes right :P |
| 19:09.01 | PBeck | you are good in history, yes? ;) |
| 19:10.20 | Sargun | No HSPDA :-( |
| 19:10.25 | Sargun | no CDMA/EV-DO |
| 19:11.18 | SpeedEvil | No ponys. |
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| 19:18.05 | *** join/#openmoko jelmer_ (n=jelmer@a62-251-123-16.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 19:20.10 | CM | In case someone isn't looking at planet.openmoko.org: http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/03/04/#20070304-phase0 |
| 19:22.14 | SpeedEvil | 'decided to ship' != shipped I spose. |
| 19:22.18 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 19:22.46 | SpeedEvil | Suppose tomorrow then. |
| 19:23.22 | CM | Guess so |
| 19:24.52 | peeps | http://voxilla.com/soapvox/2007/03/01/industry-disruption-really-168 |
| 19:25.07 | peeps | "...128 MB SDRAM expandable to 4 GB" |
| 19:25.19 | Sargun | heh |
| 19:25.20 | peeps | i think that is not right |
| 19:25.39 | peeps | is the ram expandable at all? |
| 19:28.22 | CM | No, it's 128mb |
| 19:30.22 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
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| 19:38.28 | loufoque | CM: minibit ? |
| 19:39.04 | CM | :P |
| 19:42.05 | *** join/#openmoko _ASK (n=chatzill@189.146.138.80) |
| 19:42.09 | _ASK | hi |
| 19:42.30 | CM | morning :) |
| 19:42.46 | _ASK | do someone has the actual phone? |
| 19:42.58 | CM | Yes, a few does (Not me) |
| 19:43.11 | CM | And another 50 will get one this week (Still not me ;)) |
| 19:43.22 | _ASK | =) |
| 19:43.34 | CM | s/this/the next/ |
| 19:43.34 | koen | "actual phone" is a bit misleading |
| 19:43.40 | _ASK | neo1973 |
| 19:44.04 | koen | I meant that the phones that go out tomorrow aren't the final hardware revision |
| 19:44.12 | _ASK | no? |
| 19:44.24 | _ASK | it's like giving away beta phones? |
| 19:44.32 | loufoque | I think the hardware is supposed to change just before phase 2 |
| 19:45.04 | loufoque | !counter? |
| 19:45.16 | loufoque | is it P0 time already? |
| 19:46.28 | mjr | counter |
| 19:46.28 | aloril | P0: 20:06:46 (0.838 +-0.8 days); P1: 32.676 +-10.0 (see faq) (461) |
| 19:47.18 | koen | loufoque: check the hardware wiki |
| 19:47.20 | aevin | p0 time = party time? |
| 19:47.40 | koen | loufoque: it's going to change after p0 and again before mass market |
| 19:47.46 | _ASK | i wonder, are they just going to sqeeze linux to fit the phone, or they plan to build a more developed solution for phones? |
| 19:48.32 | koen | _ASK: linux isn't the problem, userspace is |
| 19:48.41 | _ASK | oh yes |
| 19:48.59 | _ASK | i mean, in a computer it's not that difficult to modify a text file |
| 19:49.06 | _ASK | but on a phone i bet it's going to be tricky |
| 19:50.00 | _ASK | if you'll have to find your way through tons of configuration files i bet it's not much an improvement over other phone OSes |
| 19:50.05 | koen | I a garage it's not hard to change a tyre, but while driving on the highway it might be tricky |
| 19:50.33 | koen | aargh |
| 19:50.41 | koen | again I'm trying to argue with a troll |
| 19:50.58 | _ASK | am I a troll? |
| 19:51.11 | SpeedEvil | You do not hack the phone on the move |
| 19:51.13 | Lumpio- | It's not too hard to mofify a text file on a phone |
| 19:51.45 | _ASK | if you say so... it's not the first time my treo resets itself and i have to fix it |
| 19:51.56 | SpeedEvil | You do it at home, with another computer. You use it as a phone on thr move. |
| 19:51.56 | loufoque | why isn't openmoko at that bossa conference about mobile computers and open source software? |
| 19:52.23 | koen | loufoque: openembedded is, does that count? |
| 19:52.36 | SpeedEvil | If it resets, it reboots into the normal 'phone' state. |
| 19:53.45 | _ASK | do you guys have ever tried the linux distro gobolinux? |
| 19:53.52 | *** join/#openmoko ich (n=ich@91.64.160.193) |
| 19:54.36 | Lumpio- | The one with the wacky directory structure? |
| 19:54.44 | _ASK | yeah |
| 19:54.54 | *** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 19:55.19 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@84-74-83-99.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:55.25 | _ASK | it might not comply with the linux cult, but it works pretty well to ease software management |
| 19:55.53 | _ASK | i was actually wondering if they plan to make something like that for openmoko |
| 19:56.05 | loufoque | koen: only if you talk about openmoko at beer time |
| 19:56.08 | Lumpio- | It has "/Files" |
| 19:56.09 | Lumpio- | Wow. |
| 19:56.17 | Lumpio- | That's almost as descriptive as /usr/ |
| 19:56.22 | _ASK | no |
| 19:56.29 | SpeedEvil | Naah, OpenMoko comes with a switch board peripheral. |
| 19:56.29 | _ASK | the advantage is in software |
| 19:56.37 | _ASK | instead of throwing everything in bin |
| 19:56.37 | SpeedEvil | You toggle in new code on the switches. |
| 19:56.40 | Lumpio- | LOL |
| 19:56.45 | Lumpio- | Toggle switches ftw! |
| 19:56.51 | _ASK | they put each program in its own folder |
| 19:57.12 | SpeedEvil | Linux will be _totally_invisible_ to the user. |
| 19:57.24 | SpeedEvil | It's a phone. It has games. It has fun apps. |
| 19:57.27 | _ASK | if a program starts to act rude, you erase the folder and voila, no things left behind |
| 19:57.32 | Lumpio- | I want a VC on boot |
| 19:57.37 | koen | SpeedEvil: you do have to put in a bit of herring every hour to keep it hidden |
| 19:57.40 | Lumpio- | Maybe a virtual keyboard so I can type startx if I need games |
| 19:57.40 | SpeedEvil | Most users will never ever see the command line. |
| 19:57.43 | Lumpio- | Aww |
| 19:58.15 | peeps | what part of the system is openembedded? it is just part of the build process? |
| 19:58.35 | Lumpio- | _ASK: It makes sense, but it's too bad all other distros already use the ancient-ish convention |
| 19:58.47 | _ASK | so what? |
| 19:58.52 | _ASK | isn't this a new platform anyway? |
| 19:59.10 | SpeedEvil | The linux bit is irrelevant to it. |
| 19:59.13 | *** join/#openmoko igge (n=micke@84-217-185-139.tn.glocalnet.net) |
| 19:59.17 | _ASK | isn't it the purpose of being "open source" to change things? |
| 19:59.26 | SpeedEvil | Package managers will handle all the install/remove for you. |
| 19:59.27 | igge | Hello |
| 19:59.40 | _ASK | yeah, but they never work 100% |
| 19:59.48 | thresh_ | orly? |
| 19:59.51 | SpeedEvil | _ASK: So we fix it so they do. |
| 20:00.05 | _ASK | oh no, because its inherent to the way they work |
| 20:00.08 | SpeedEvil | It's a limited subset of applications that will be supported. |
| 20:00.13 | Lumpio- | _ASK: It's slightly troublesome to change something as... fundamental as this, practically all software assumes the conventional directory layout |
| 20:00.16 | _ASK | you install a program, file a gets modified |
| 20:00.30 | igge | where can I buy a Neo1973 phone? are they out yet? |
| 20:00.31 | Lumpio- | GoboLinux may have some hackish scripts for them, but just like package managers, they can never "work 100%" :P |
| 20:00.31 | aloril | igge: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 20:00.32 | _ASK | you install annother app, file a gets modified again, and then you can't revert it |
| 20:00.38 | SpeedEvil | It's a hell of a lot easier with a small subset of applications. |
| 20:00.44 | _ASK | if you try to uninstall app a |
| 20:01.08 | SpeedEvil | So we fix those dependancies so none of the applications do that and have interrelated dependancies. |
| 20:01.31 | _ASK | what about application sharing? |
| 20:01.35 | SpeedEvil | If you install a random unpackaged program, you're on your own. |
| 20:01.52 | Lumpio- | define:application sharing |
| 20:02.08 | _ASK | on palm devices, since years ago, you can select an application and beam it |
| 20:02.11 | SpeedEvil | OpenMoko will run on many architectures. |
| 20:02.35 | SpeedEvil | You may not be able to beam an app, as it won't be a compaitible binary. |
| 20:02.35 | koen | SpeedEvil: I have it running on powerpc :) |
| 20:02.37 | Lumpio- | o, like that |
| 20:02.51 | Lumpio- | _ASK: You could beam a... .tar.bz2 full of source code! |
| 20:03.04 | _ASK | and compile it inside the phone? |
| 20:03.10 | Lumpio- | Sure, why not |
| 20:03.26 | Lumpio- | How fast was the processor again? |
| 20:03.26 | SpeedEvil | As long as it's a small app, it should work. |
| 20:03.27 | _ASK | openmoko is supposed to run in more than ARM? |
| 20:03.31 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 20:03.37 | SpeedEvil | It's supposed to run on anything. |
| 20:03.39 | _ASK | for example? |
| 20:03.48 | SpeedEvil | gerbils. |
| 20:03.52 | _ASK | oh, open ended... i don't like that. |
| 20:03.53 | Lumpio- | Toasters! |
| 20:03.59 | SpeedEvil | It's going to be encoded into the neurons of gerbils. |
| 20:04.06 | SpeedEvil | Through advanced genetic engineering. |
| 20:04.09 | Lumpio- | And the heat elements of toasters. |
| 20:04.16 | Lumpio- | Also how fast is the processor >_< |
| 20:04.32 | SpeedEvil | The gerbils have implanted GSM modules, and can run after you if you leave them behind. |
| 20:04.38 | _ASK | i think you guys focus too much into geekism and too little into practical concerns |
| 20:04.40 | SpeedEvil | You also don't need to charge your phone. |
| 20:04.44 | *** join/#openmoko MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@20150141125.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 20:04.50 | SpeedEvil | Just give it some peanuts every once in a while. |
| 20:04.52 | Lumpio- | _ASK: I can't help being what I am :( |
| 20:04.53 | _ASK | run on everything... i imagine myself carrying my blender. |
| 20:05.05 | SpeedEvil | It runs on any architecture of phone. |
| 20:05.17 | SpeedEvil | There are several incompatible CPUs to pick. |
| 20:05.28 | Lumpio- | oo 266MHz processor and 128MB of RAM |
| 20:05.33 | Lumpio- | Neat |
| 20:05.35 | _ASK | yeah, but what's the benefit of several processors? |
| 20:05.44 | MacNorth | more gerbils! |
| 20:05.51 | SpeedEvil | So that any mobile maker can make a phone. |
| 20:05.54 | Lumpio- | I run Gentoo on a 333MHz PC with 192MB of RAM, compiling stuff on the phone should be no problem! |
| 20:05.58 | SpeedEvil | With any processor they want. |
| 20:06.03 | SpeedEvil | And put openmoko on it. |
| 20:06.07 | _ASK | let's stick with ARM; what matters is compatibility |
| 20:06.14 | SpeedEvil | It will be _much_ slower than a PC. |
| 20:06.20 | koen | heh |
| 20:06.29 | _ASK | yeah, buses are way slower, memory, etc |
| 20:06.42 | SpeedEvil | It has no FPU, and little cache. |
| 20:06.48 | koen | mentioning 'ARM" and 'compatibility' in one sentence |
| 20:07.05 | _ASK | hahaha |
| 20:07.48 | _ASK | what version of arm is xscale? |
| 20:07.49 | koen | 6 incompatible ABIs combined with different instructions sets |
| 20:07.55 | koen | yeah, "compatible" |
| 20:08.09 | _ASK | 9? |
| 20:08.25 | koen | _ASK: 'xscale' is its own arm version |
| 20:08.39 | vmaster | it implements architecture v5 |
| 20:09.07 | vmaster | iirc |
| 20:09.09 | Lumpio- | Compiling doesn't need an FPU |
| 20:09.20 | koen | or v6 in case of the pxa3xx iirc |
| 20:09.21 | Lumpio- | Cache might be a bit more of a problem |
| 20:09.45 | vmaster | koen: yeah, no idea what xscale3 really is |
| 20:09.47 | SpeedEvil | And prolly pretty slow SD. |
| 20:09.55 | Lumpio- | It's compatible as long as there is a C compiler for the architecture in question |
| 20:10.07 | SpeedEvil | I don't know what the speeds of the SD is likely to be. |
| 20:10.27 | koen | vmaster: almost-armv6 is the best description i can come up with |
| 20:10.49 | vmaster | hehehe |
| 20:12.10 | loufoque | is it planned to use minimo as a web browser on openmoko? |
| 20:12.26 | SpeedEvil | Firefox! :) |
| 20:12.32 | Lumpio- | :D |
| 20:12.34 | koen | webkit ftw! |
| 20:12.54 | loufoque | Qt is evil |
| 20:14.23 | loufoque | anyway, w3m should be good enough |
| 20:14.25 | koen | who says webkit needs qt? |
| 20:14.38 | koen | just use the gdk backend |
| 20:14.50 | loufoque | well, it's based on some KDE work |
| 20:15.45 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 20:19.30 | zecke | loufoque: grow up and educate yourself |
| 20:19.50 | zecke | loufoque: GtkHtml is based on KDE work as well, and you use it every day |
| 20:20.12 | loufoque | zecke: I find you quite presomptuous. |
| 20:21.09 | zecke | loufoque: well... |
| 20:21.18 | peeps | seems silly to me that the phone has two speakers. waste of space IMHO |
| 20:22.01 | loufoque | zecke: anyway, someone who says "Qt is evil" is not meant to be taken seriously. |
| 20:22.25 | _ASK | it eats children... alive. |
| 20:28.07 | PBeck | _ASK: QT? |
| 20:28.24 | peeps | can you really get any noticeable stereo effects when the speakers are so close to each other? |
| 20:28.30 | SpeedEvil | Slightly. |
| 20:28.32 | PBeck | or you mean the Neo1973? Is it a alien? |
| 20:28.35 | _ASK | don't think so |
| 20:28.39 | SpeedEvil | Not really that much. |
| 20:28.41 | SpeedEvil | Try it. |
| 20:28.48 | koen | peeps: placebo effect |
| 20:28.54 | SpeedEvil | With some small speakers. |
| 20:29.00 | loufoque | you can still make weird sounds that sound like they're coming from elsewhere |
| 20:29.04 | SpeedEvil | It is _very_ minimal. |
| 20:29.04 | _ASK | PBeck: QT is ok, it just seemed funny. |
| 20:29.27 | loufoque | Qt is developed behind closed doors |
| 20:29.28 | PBeck | _ASK: yes i know, i would it make more funny ;) |
| 20:29.55 | PBeck | in your newspaper => Openmoko and the Neo193 eats children ... alive!!! |
| 20:30.02 | peeps | i mean, i know speakers are probably cheap, but it just feels like a waste to me. KISS |
| 20:30.12 | _ASK | honestly... i wonder why are there so many linux hackers that are reluctant to simplify things |
| 20:30.12 | loufoque | that's what's the two speakers are for |
| 20:31.24 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-233-130.eunet.yu) |
| 20:31.29 | MacNorth | i guess those hackers don't want to get flamed for the Gnome UI :-D |
| 20:31.29 | peeps | ah, so will you write that app, loufoque? ;-) |
| 20:32.46 | _ASK | package managers... i wonder why we need to keep everything mixed in the first place |
| 20:34.41 | loufoque | peeps: do I get a free phone? |
| 20:34.57 | peeps | lol, don't ask me |
| 20:35.19 | peeps | i'm just another insignificant drooler |
| 20:35.50 | SpeedEvil | Every P0 dev should have several mails by now. |
| 20:36.08 | SpeedEvil | Saying that they are a P0 dev. I don't know if they've had to respond. |
| 20:36.32 | peeps | are you one, SpeedEvil? |
| 20:36.37 | SpeedEvil | you have No. |
| 20:36.39 | SpeedEvil | No |
| 20:36.51 | loufoque | how is video playback doing, SpeedEvil ? |
| 20:37.15 | SpeedEvil | Nothing I can do without hardware really, to do benchmarks on. |
| 20:37.32 | SpeedEvil | And at the moment I'm doing http://www.mauve.plus.com/walls.html |
| 20:37.57 | loufoque | wonderful. |
| 20:38.08 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.122.65.39.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 20:38.18 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.122.65.39.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 20:39.21 | loufoque | how does audio work in openmoko? Is there a sound server? |
| 20:39.42 | CM | alsa I think |
| 20:39.46 | peeps | are you porting some existing video app SpeedEvil>? |
| 20:39.50 | CM | pulse audio proposed |
| 20:40.00 | SpeedEvil | peeps: I was just really wondering about mplayer. |
| 20:40.04 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-debian (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 20:40.11 | MacNorth | ike ni ikiru koi da! |
| 20:40.15 | SpeedEvil | I have no real time to sit down and code. |
| 20:40.22 | SpeedEvil | I'm trying to put walls back on my house. |
| 20:41.58 | loufoque | a simple sound recording/editing software could be interesting |
| 20:42.17 | loufoque | record your voice, make cuts, apply effects... |
| 20:42.34 | loufoque | the problem is integrating well with the stylus |
| 20:42.45 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 20:42.54 | DesktopMa | mouse based one should be fine |
| 20:42.56 | peeps | yeah, i was thinking that would be cool too, allow layering etc |
| 20:43.25 | SpeedEvil | Finger-based scrolling should actually work quite well. |
| 20:43.31 | loufoque | also given the size of the screen it may be better to have the UI rotated |
| 20:43.35 | SpeedEvil | jog-wheel like. |
| 20:45.10 | peeps | i saw a video of iphone imitation software scrolling with the finger. was very cool looking, as the scrolling had momentum |
| 20:46.09 | peeps | you give it a flick and it keeps moving, with some slight friction, then you touch it again when you want to stop it |
| 20:46.26 | koen | stefan_schmidt: congrats on the new job, btw |
| 20:47.26 | stefan_schmidt | koen: thanks |
| 20:47.35 | peeps | does anyone know if matchbox has this sort of on-the-fly screen orientation switching built in? |
| 20:47.53 | zecke | peeps: XRandR? |
| 20:47.57 | stefan_schmidt | koen: I'll see how it is going in the next days. |
| 20:48.01 | koen | peeps: it's now matchbox' job |
| 20:48.08 | koen | s/now/not/ |
| 20:48.22 | peeps | what is XRAndr? |
| 20:48.39 | loufoque | an X.org extension I suppose |
| 20:48.42 | zecke | peeps: XResizeAndRotate, written by Jim Gettys for the iPAQs? |
| 20:49.13 | peeps | ok |
| 20:51.53 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 20:56.23 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-233-130.eunet.yu) |
| 20:56.27 | peeps | the neo1973 should have frickin laser in it. everything is better with lasers |
| 20:57.06 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 20:57.18 | peeps | turn on the vibrate and you get a laser light show! |
| 20:57.25 | SpeedEvil | Though I'd prefer a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range. |
| 20:59.39 | peeps | hmm, should I put laser pointer on the regular Wishlist, or just go ahead and use Wishlist-unlikely |
| 20:59.42 | mjr | how about a mass driver |
| 20:59.53 | peeps | i think some pdas really have pointers no/ |
| 20:59.55 | peeps | ? |
| 20:59.56 | SpeedEvil | Laser pointer isn't quite insane. |
| 21:00.09 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB2FD2D.ipt.aol.com) |
| 21:00.10 | SpeedEvil | However, it is quite physically large. |
| 21:00.41 | SpeedEvil | some 1cm dia * 1cm long for the smallest laser diode I've seen. |
| 21:01.03 | Psi | 1cm, thats pretty big |
| 21:01.14 | Psi | normal laser diodes are like 5mm by 4mm |
| 21:01.22 | Psi | for pointers atleast |
| 21:01.24 | SpeedEvil | Inc lens. |
| 21:01.38 | Psi | ah, well the lens still isn't that big |
| 21:01.39 | peeps | yeah the lens is where the bulk lies i think |
| 21:02.02 | peeps | the diode itself is not so large |
| 21:02.11 | SpeedEvil | The lens isn't that big, but to get the optics right, the 10 degree or so beam from the LD has to spread to the whole of the lens. |
| 21:02.26 | SpeedEvil | which means that you need some space between the LD and the lens. |
| 21:03.11 | Psi | yeah |
| 21:03.36 | peeps | you could modulate the laser beam to send data long distances, just make sure to stand VERY still |
| 21:04.00 | SpeedEvil | Gyrostabilised beam would work :) |
| 21:04.04 | Lumpio- | :D |
| 21:04.29 | Lumpio- | Maybe you could use uber-precision GPS (sub-millimeter) and gyros! |
| 21:04.35 | Lumpio- | Have the devices report each other their positions via network |
| 21:04.58 | Lumpio- | And then the info would help them align to... send data over a really complicated and mundane way :P |
| 21:05.00 | Psi | my laser watch- http://psi.abcom.co.nz/watch.jpg |
| 21:05.16 | Psi | you can see the diode at the top of the electronics |
| 21:05.25 | Lumpio- | Okay, "mundane" isn't the correct work |
| 21:05.29 | Psi | lens was glued to the outside of the button hole |
| 21:05.34 | Lumpio- | I have a good laser pointer for you |
| 21:05.35 | *** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@S01060040f41dad58.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 21:05.41 | SpeedEvil | IR-UV, 0-1MW. |
| 21:05.43 | Lumpio- | http://lumpio.no-ip.com/b/laserpointer.jpg Quality! |
| 21:06.29 | Psi | heh |
| 21:07.47 | kmeyer | "sell only in supermarket" lol |
| 21:09.23 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 21:11.26 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=sajt@53d830b3.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 21:11.52 | greghunt | what are the different shapes? |
| 21:12.01 | peeps | cool watch Lumpio- |
| 21:12.08 | Lumpio- | ...it's not my watch though |
| 21:12.23 | greghunt | i got an led torch + disco lights + laser pointer for 25RMB :) |
| 21:12.45 | Lumpio- | Also I love how the cardboard backing of that laser pointer is cut at a huge angle and it looks like it was cut with scissors too |
| 21:12.51 | Lumpio- | (By some 9-year-old in a Chinese factory) |
| 21:14.09 | greghunt | i'm surprised it comes in a packet |
| 21:15.13 | greghunt | one thing to note, that keyboard has a weird layout |
| 21:17.36 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-233-130.eunet.yu) |
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| 21:35.29 | borg_ | counter |
| 21:35.30 | aloril | P0: 19:12:15 (0.800 +-0.8 days); P1: 32.600 +-10.0 (see faq) (462) |
| 21:37.01 | *** join/#openmoko robzon (n=robzon@ip-193-239-80-210.merinet.pl) |
| 21:37.07 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-51-93.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:37.09 | robzon | hello |
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| 21:42.56 | *** part/#openmoko gbv22 (n=my@c-69-136-67-240.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 21:51.02 | *** join/#openmoko andymk (n=andy@adsl-static-1-193.uklinux.net) |
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| 21:58.14 | sixfeet | hi |
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| 22:06.59 | robzon | ahh can't wait to see the phone in action |
| 22:07.15 | woglinde | counter |
| 22:07.15 | aloril | P0: 18:56:22 (0.789 +-0.8 days); P1: 32.578 +-10.0 (see faq) (463) |
| 22:08.51 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 22:09.08 | *** join/#openmoko alp (n=alp@host-87-74-40-238.bulldogdsl.com) |
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| 22:14.12 | *** join/#openmoko kmeyer (n=konrad@unaffiliated/konrad/x-000001) |
| 22:15.55 | Elrond | counter |
| 22:15.56 | aloril | P0: 18:52:02 (0.786 +-0.8 days); P1: 32.572 +-10.0 (see faq) (464) |
| 22:16.55 | robzon | what's P0 and P1? |
| 22:18.41 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 22:40.38 | Sargun | another month |
| 22:43.07 | aevin | robzon: "phase 0" and "phase 1". check the wiki (wiki.openmoko.org) for more details. |
| 22:47.25 | Elrond | Sargun - Yeah... |
| 22:50.30 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.2) |
| 22:54.19 | Sargun | I wish it had EDGE |
| 22:54.28 | Sargun | or CDMA/EV-DO rev. A |
| 23:03.31 | robzon | what web browser renderer will be used? |
| 23:04.36 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.2) |
| 23:07.21 | Sargun | Gecko? |
| 23:07.26 | Sargun | I doubt gecko will be used. |
| 23:07.58 | deadchip | webkit or if opera's engine was just free eh |
| 23:08.19 | kmeyer | if opera went open source that'd be sweet |
| 23:08.26 | deadchip | yeah |
| 23:08.30 | deadchip | and their financial ruin |
| 23:08.31 | deadchip | lol |
| 23:08.33 | deadchip | (probably..) |
| 23:08.38 | kmeyer | heh |
| 23:08.45 | kmeyer | but they'd get a lot of firefox users |
| 23:09.03 | kmeyer | how does opera make money? |
| 23:09.49 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-012.eplus-online.de) |
| 23:09.51 | deadchip | well i'm not sure actually now that even the testing versions are ad-free |
| 23:10.10 | deadchip | kmeyer: i think, or rather, i'd guess, with the engines specialized for small displays |
| 23:10.26 | Sargun | Ads, and Google. |
| 23:10.53 | deadchip | they blew something up in the recent FC6 g++ upgrade |
| 23:11.02 | deadchip | now linking of C++ apps takes again 3-4 minutes |
| 23:11.13 | deadchip | man |
| 23:11.27 | kmeyer | heh |
| 23:11.34 | kmeyer | another fc6 user, yay |
| 23:11.43 | *** join/#openmoko chema (n=chema@211.Red-88-7-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 23:12.15 | deadchip | :) |
| 23:14.13 | kmeyer | kernel-2.6.18-1.2798.fc6 |
| 23:14.14 | kmeyer | kernel-2.6.19-1.2895.fc6 |
| 23:14.14 | kmeyer | kernel-2.6.19-1.2911.fc6 |
| 23:14.15 | kmeyer | kernel-2.6.19-1.2911.6.4.fc6 |
| 23:14.16 | kmeyer | /exec -o rpm -q kernel |
| 23:14.21 | kmeyer | what's the 6.4. one? |
| 23:14.51 | *** join/#openmoko ozamosi (n=ozamosi@85.8.1.10.se.wasadata.net) |
| 23:15.07 | deadchip | heh |
| 23:15.18 | deadchip | kmeyer: well i was wondering about that as well |
| 23:15.40 | deadchip | i had a kernel upgrade today and was a little stupmed when i saw it's still 2.6.19-1.2911 just with 6.4 suffixed |
| 23:15.52 | deadchip | wonder what the changelog is |
| 23:15.59 | deadchip | erm |
| 23:16.09 | kmeyer | when I made the mistake of blowing my circuit today |
| 23:16.12 | kmeyer | rpm -qi |
| 23:16.20 | kmeyer | I booted the non-6.4 one. |
| 23:16.28 | kmeyer | don't know what it adds |
| 23:17.04 | *** part/#openmoko chema (n=chema@211.Red-88-7-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 23:17.44 | deadchip | the last rpm changelog note is from Feb 24th |
| 23:17.53 | deadchip | yeah me too |
| 23:17.56 | deadchip | don't know what's different |
| 23:18.16 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:18.42 | deadchip | rpmquery --changelog too |
| 23:18.45 | deadchip | but it says nothing |
| 23:21.11 | kmeyer | oh. |
| 23:21.18 | kmeyer | mind if I pm you? |
| 23:23.23 | deadchip | no prob |
| 23:23.30 | kmeyer | k |
| 23:23.44 | *** join/#openmoko rob__w (n=bob@p85.212.17.186.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 23:26.35 | *** join/#openmoko disq (n=hede@66.249.26.2) |
| 23:26.49 | rwhitby | morning |
| 23:26.56 | disq | hi. :) |
| 23:28.20 | Elrond | Hi rwhitby |
| 23:28.31 | Elrond | Any info on P0? |
| 23:28.40 | rwhitby | nothing new over the weekend |
| 23:29.11 | Elrond | So $(counter) is still valid? |
| 23:29.27 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1243 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-pim/openmoko-dates_svn.bb: Changed https to http, to avoid (failing) superfluous certificate check. |
| 23:29.46 | peeps | anyone care to comment on this idea? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist-ANARM |
| 23:30.16 | rwhitby | counter doesn't seem to include shipping |
| 23:30.53 | Elrond | rwhitby - It can't. Shipping highly depends on where you live. ;) |
| 23:31.04 | rwhitby | indeed |
| 23:31.23 | rwhitby | (I'm hoping Taiwan->Australia is quick) |
| 23:32.20 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - I'd expect that for very few. |
| 23:32.38 | SpeedEvil | peeps: not insane. |
| 23:33.17 | woglinde | I hope the new hardrevision make it under 4 weeks |
| 23:34.00 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - I have read a bit on USB mini-AB and usb on the go (I know, that the neo does not implement that). I understood, that the mini-AB receptacle can detect (by pin 4), wether a mini-A or mini-B was connected. Do we have any info, if the detection is done somehow in the neo? |
| 23:34.17 | SpeedEvil | AIUI, no. |
| 23:34.30 | SpeedEvil | I don't _think_ there is a way of detecting. |
| 23:34.40 | SpeedEvil | You just switch to host or peripheral in software. |
| 23:34.47 | peeps | oh and you guys who are talking about Opera browser, if Java is made to work the device, then you can run Opera. |
| 23:35.19 | peeps | that conversation was a while ago though, just read those comments now |
| 23:35.21 | woglinde | peeps why shouldnt phoneme not run? |
| 23:36.44 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Ahh, okay. The detection on its own didn't look very complex, so I thought, some small circuitry could have routed the right soc-pins to the receptacle. ;) |
| 23:38.56 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.122.65.39.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 23:39.35 | kmeyer | hmm |
| 23:39.48 | kmeyer | is there a vibrate-component in the Neo1973? |
| 23:39.56 | peeps | i don't know much about it in general, woglinde, is there already something made for this processor? |
| 23:40.15 | peeps | kmeyer, yes |
| 23:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.2) |
| 23:40.42 | robzon | gotta run... see you all later |
| 23:40.44 | *** part/#openmoko robzon (n=robzon@ip-193-239-80-210.merinet.pl) |
| 23:40.45 | SpeedEvil | It's not a decent brand - sybian or anything though. |
| 23:40.48 | Elrond | kmeyer - Yes. |
| 23:40.59 | kmeyer | ok |
| 23:41.28 | Elrond | Even the bootloader can start the vibrator ;) |
| 23:43.10 | *** join/#openmoko gavioto (n=chatzill@89.128.16.69) |
| 23:43.20 | gavioto | hi! |
| 23:44.14 | gavioto | there are anyone? |
| 23:44.15 | aloril | gavioto: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 23:45.24 | peeps | hi gavioto |
| 23:46.35 | gavioto | it's the first one time i hear about openmoko |
| 23:46.39 | gavioto | it's very interesting |
| 23:47.47 | woglinde | hihi the bot |
| 23:49.17 | kmeyer | yep |
