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| 00:03.30 | rwhitby | (the openmoko version of www.nslu2-linux.org/Makefile) |
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| 00:04.07 | parag0n | that looks like it'lll take a while |
| 00:04.34 | mickey|zzZZzz | g'night |
| 00:04.37 | rwhitby | parag0n: I just encode in a Makefile all the manual steps that everyone is doing right now to set up their build environments. |
| 00:04.44 | rwhitby | (as I do it) |
| 00:05.01 | parag0n | awesome |
| 00:05.09 | rwhitby | night mickey|zzZZzz |
| 00:05.15 | parag0n | is there an emulated moko environment then? |
| 00:05.29 | mickey|zzZZzz | yes |
| 00:05.34 | mickey|zzZZzz | i'll post more details tomorrow |
| 00:05.35 | mickey|zzZZzz | qemu |
| 00:09.38 | rep | i can't get bitbake to resume building devel-image :( it complains about missing cache... which directory needs it in CACHE? |
| 00:10.07 | parag0n | hmm, i thought qemu emulated an x86 machine |
| 00:11.19 | Clint | it does |
| 00:11.44 | parag0n | so it can do ARM as well? |
| 00:12.16 | Clint | it does |
| 00:12.27 | parag0n | neat |
| 00:12.38 | parag0n | aaanyway, bedtime |
| 00:12.44 | parag0n | lectures tomorrow :/ |
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| 00:33.48 | sixfeet | *wait* |
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| 00:36.52 | mjr | qemu does pretty many archs |
| 00:37.07 | mjr | but seems parag0n wasn't here to see it :] |
| 00:37.30 | Clint | he was also not able to look at the web page or other documentation |
| 00:39.27 | rep | mh did somebody succeed in running the devel-image with qemu? |
| 00:39.57 | rep | it fires up here but doesn't do anything but consuming cycles |
| 00:42.17 | DukeOfURL | any north americans here? do we know if Cingular or T-Mobile are going to allow these on their network? |
| 00:42.35 | sixfeet | devel-image ? |
| 00:42.45 | thedaniel | DukeOfURL: how would they not allow them? |
| 00:42.51 | sixfeet | here it works with live-iso |
| 00:43.00 | rep | live-iso? of what? |
| 00:43.10 | DukeOfURL | because the serial number identifies the phone |
| 00:43.11 | rep | i talk about running the openmoko build |
| 00:43.14 | sixfeet | phps zenwalk |
| 00:43.24 | thedaniel | DukeOfURL: they don't discriminate |
| 00:43.32 | mjr | They _could_ ban the phones by IMEI, technically... |
| 00:43.41 | thedaniel | phones with IMEIs of all 0s work on tmo |
| 00:43.43 | DukeOfURL | that's it! IMEI |
| 00:43.44 | sixfeet | ahh openmoko runs on java |
| 00:43.45 | mjr | can't see much reason for them to, but could |
| 00:44.06 | thedaniel | they COULD but I am sure it's not worth the efffort |
| 00:44.23 | rep | sixfeet: on java? it doesn't "run on java"... |
| 00:44.48 | rep | the other way around maybe ;) |
| 00:44.49 | sixfeet | the client sw does |
| 00:45.07 | rep | what are you talking about? |
| 00:45.24 | sixfeet | but i may not understand u right ;) |
| 00:45.29 | mjr | rep, yeah, for javame it was promising to see that sun.com guy post his interest |
| 00:45.43 | mjr | (ref. the other way around) |
| 00:46.05 | rep | sixfeet: all apps of open moko will be linux-binary - gui runs on the xorg-server with gtk+ |
| 00:46.36 | sixfeet | i could explain better in german *g* .. but ur right |
| 00:46.42 | rep | dann sags auf deutsch |
| 00:46.48 | sixfeet | ahh gut |
| 00:46.53 | mjr | Well, at least initially. I bet python bindings are just a matter of time ;P |
| 00:47.05 | sixfeet | hatte die sw mit java-bins testweise laufen |
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| 00:47.11 | rep | jeah python bindings will be perfect... |
| 00:47.24 | rep | welche sw? |
| 00:48.26 | sixfeet | die von openmoko ..auf der seite ..wollte mal die client-connect testen |
| 00:48.51 | sixfeet | und das entwickler tool soweit ich gesehen habe |
| 00:48.59 | sixfeet | aber nur kurz versucht |
| 00:49.09 | rep | mmh also keine ahnung welche software du meinst |
| 00:49.21 | rep | ich seh nirgendwo ne javasoftware bisher die was mit openmoko zu tun hat :) |
| 00:49.31 | sixfeet | sry hab gerade keine links rechner heute neu inst. |
| 00:49.51 | rep | naja egal erstmal abwarten |
| 00:50.04 | sixfeet | werde die mal wieder suchen |
| 00:50.17 | sixfeet | dauert ja eh noch ne weile bis die hw raus ist |
| 00:50.44 | denis^da | re |
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| 00:52.21 | rep | mmh i maybe misunderstand the usage of qemu... would the devel-image ext2 file suite as parameter to the qemu -initrd option? |
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| 01:02.51 | gabaug | anybody else get errors compiling examples/openmoko-styles-demo-simple? "stray '\' in program" |
| 01:07.45 | gabaug | nevermind, if I ./autogen.sh within that directory make then works |
| 01:08.01 | gabaug | I was running make from two levels up when I got that error |
| 01:13.21 | rwhitby | MokoMakefile: http://www.rwhitby.net/files/openmoko/Makefile |
| 01:13.27 | rwhitby | (version 0.1) |
| 01:15.51 | rwhitby | Hmm - don't try that yet, I haven't got the bitbake download in there yet. |
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| 01:17.58 | gabaug | rwhitby: are you working on replacing/improving their current make system? |
| 01:19.08 | rep | he's simplifying the creation of a development environment for us here =) |
| 01:19.30 | gabaug | cool |
| 01:19.33 | gabaug | yeah, it's a bit convoluted atm |
| 01:20.52 | rwhitby | gabaug: all I am doing is codifying http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch - nothing more. |
| 01:21.11 | rwhitby | eventually, you will be able to: |
| 01:21.32 | rwhitby | wget http://www.rwhitby.net/files/openmoko/Makefile ; make openmoko-devel-image |
| 01:22.32 | gabaug | rwhitby: nice. is the devel-image just for loading/running on a neo? |
| 01:22.56 | rep | rwhitby: do you know if openmoko builds with newest revision of OE? or just the one mentioned in wiki? |
| 01:25.17 | rwhitby | gabaug: let's see what it produces, and how that can be used. |
| 01:25.41 | rwhitby | rep: I've been advised to not change any revs if you want repeatability. |
| 01:26.00 | gabaug | openmoko use matchbox for its WM? |
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| 01:33.34 | alphaone | gabaug: Yes |
| 01:35.13 | alphaone | night all |
| 01:36.03 | rep | damn i start to believe this bitbake app does not like me... |
| 01:37.37 | rwhitby | OK, http://www.rwhitby.net/files/openmoko/Makefile now is able to start a build from scratch in a completely empty /home/moko directory |
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| 02:39.49 | empty_mind | openmoko site says to contribute applications to openmoko you need to have experience in writing applications for wmbedded linux |
| 02:40.25 | empty_mind | is there a way by which someone can contribute without having experience in writing embedded apps for linux |
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| 02:41.12 | gabaug | empty_mind: sure, lots of ways |
| 02:41.30 | empty_mind | gabaug, like ? |
| 02:41.32 | gabaug | translating, documenting, art/sounds |
| 02:41.47 | gabaug | if you have any programming experience you can certainly give programming for it a shot :) |
| 02:42.09 | empty_mind | gabaug, i am new to embedded world have close to 9yrs of experience in coding |
| 02:42.19 | empty_mind | gabaug, worked on couple of OSS too |
| 02:42.27 | gabaug | empty_mind: you need at least 10 yrs experience |
| 02:42.33 | rwhitby | heh |
| 02:42.37 | empty_mind | gabaug, hehe |
| 02:42.53 | rwhitby | empty_mind: I'm sure you'll be a useful contributor. |
| 02:43.38 | empty_mind | i only need a pointer to start with. It has been 3 yrs since i wrote something for telecom sector |
| 02:43.57 | empty_mind | used to work for a telecom company in circa 2003-2004 |
| 02:48.20 | jh|home | rwhitby, thanks for the makefile |
| 02:48.33 | rwhitby | jh|home: does it work for you? |
| 02:48.48 | rwhitby | (I'm looking for early feedback) |
| 02:49.01 | jh|home | rwhitby, so far! munching on the bitbake files as we type |
| 02:49.12 | rwhitby | sweet. how painless was it? |
| 02:49.41 | empty_mind | oh wow there are loads of things i can contribute; like editors, office suit and what more python on openmok or a http server for openmoko |
| 02:49.45 | empty_mind | tnxs guys |
| 02:49.49 | jh|home | piece of cake. for some reason last night i couldn't get my manual install of everything to work (bb complained about my bbpath i think) |
| 02:50.00 | jh|home | but with your makefile, works great |
| 02:50.17 | rwhitby | can I use that as a testimonial? |
| 02:50.35 | jh|home | hah, you bet :) |
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| 02:55.58 | rwhitby | sent. thx. |
| 02:57.04 | empty_mind | guys is there a simulator for openmoko ? I mena how do i start trying out applications for openmoko |
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| 02:59.45 | rwhitby | jh|home: let me know if you have any problems with the makefile |
| 03:00.52 | jh|home | rwhitby, ok... i'm compiling now, so it seems to be doing well |
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| 03:08.12 | rwhitby | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile |
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| 03:11.57 | empty_mind | rwhitby, nice testimonial under mokomakefile |
| 03:11.58 | rwhitby | :-) |
| 03:11.58 | rwhitby | Now to link it to the front page |
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| 03:13.50 | aloril | interesting, still no /. and only 3 digit digg is not to source (pasted this link here yesterday) http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/first-look-the-antiiphone-openmokos-neo1973-236841.php |
| 03:14.18 | aloril | refuses to do search quite often: http://www.digg.com/search?s=moko&submit=Search§ion=news&type=both&area=all&age=7&sort=new |
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| 03:16.10 | ryanlerch2 | aloril - i have been finding that too... |
| 03:17.11 | aloril | most diggs (13) for relevant links goes to: http://www.openmoko.org/ |
| 03:17.39 | ryanlerch2 | make that 14 :P |
| 03:17.46 | aloril | hehe |
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| 03:19.05 | ryanlerch2 | big props to whoever did all the new stuff at openmoko.org - its great, and looks super pro. |
| 03:20.11 | aloril | thats the second most digged at 12 (so duplicate ;-) |
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| 03:28.09 | aloril | some pics of Neo1973 (seem more recent than wiki): http://www.slashgear.com/openmoko-and-fic-neo1973-updates-153926.php |
| 03:29.24 | SpeedEvil | I don't think those are pics, but renderings. |
| 03:30.14 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 03:30.57 | bhima | The Neo1973 sorta resembles that Sony competitor to the NOkia 770. |
| 03:33.19 | aloril | rwhitby: cool |
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| 03:35.47 | aloril | last day there was +4 nick record count increase: 251 2007-02-15 |
| 03:36.14 | jh|home | rwhitby, not sure how you can do this in the makefile, but the gcc patch needs to apply otherwise it fails |
| 03:37.06 | aloril | haven't tested MokoMakefile (still building using previous instructions, this machine is too slow/too much other load and downloads timed out yesterday too) |
| 03:37.08 | aloril | but still: |
| 03:37.11 | aloril | counter? |
| 03:37.11 | aloril | source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; a week, 6 days 08:22:49 (7.349 - 13.349 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, a week, 6 days (29.349 - 44.349 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, a week, 6 days (197.349 - 227.349 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (339) |
| 03:38.39 | bhima | Does the neo1973 support Dyntick? |
| 03:39.54 | aloril | jh|home: maybe that is fixed in svn? it does refer to never version 1004 while Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch refered to older version yesterday (now refers to new one too) |
| 03:40.19 | aloril | s/never/newer/ |
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| 03:43.12 | aloril | another article: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2657814070.html |
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| 03:44.44 | aloril | old dates |
| 03:45.39 | jh|home | aloril, the patch failed to apply, but it dumps to shell so I applied the fix from the website and it's compiling now |
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| 03:49.13 | aloril | jh|home: OK (I guess either makefile needs fixing or wiki) |
| 03:49.23 | aloril | that article has interesting comment "Among other contributions, Welte wrote the modem multiplexing code that enables OpenMoko-based devices to simultaneously browse the web and take/make calls, for example." |
| 03:49.45 | empty_mind | is openmoko planning to have samba server fo connecting to other devices/PC |
| 03:50.15 | rwhitby | jh|home: ok, I'll do the patch too |
| 03:50.19 | bhima | Does the neo1973 use standard GSM multiplexing? |
| 03:50.26 | SpeedEvil | aloril: that's a bit odd - AIUI, it's network operators that can prevent that. |
| 03:50.34 | SpeedEvil | Or often don't enable. |
| 03:50.55 | bhima | Oh, wait. that article is a bit fuzzy... |
| 03:50.59 | SpeedEvil | empty_mind: that almost certainly won't be the default. |
| 03:51.13 | SpeedEvil | empty_mind: you can install samba on it if you want though, sure. |
| 03:51.30 | SpeedEvil | I think take all these with a big pinch of salt. |
| 03:51.41 | bhima | The reason that GPRS can't do data and voice at the same time is that certain channels are used for GPRS and certain are used for voice. |
| 03:51.46 | SpeedEvil | One stated that end users could buy it in a couple of months. |
| 03:51.52 | SpeedEvil | Without any caveats. |
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| 03:53.09 | jh|home | rwhitby, there are four 'build fixes' on the wiki, i guess they should go in the makefile until they're fixed up |
| 03:53.21 | jh|home | i just did them manually |
| 03:53.27 | bhima | But, the multi-plexing code you need is for dealing with command and control over a single UART connection while concurrently doing PPP. |
| 03:53.30 | rwhitby | jh|home: fixed - run "make update-makefile ; make setup" |
| 03:53.47 | bhima | If I'm doing GPRS via PPP, how will I know when a phone call comes in? |
| 03:53.48 | rwhitby | I had the first three - I had omitted the fourth |
| 03:53.56 | SpeedEvil | Ah - makes sense. |
| 03:54.15 | SpeedEvil | They'll presumably be talking of gsmd then |
| 03:54.15 | bhima | There's a standard part of the GSM spec that includes multiplexing for this. |
| 03:54.37 | jh|home | ah, ok |
| 03:54.43 | SpeedEvil | I wonder if it's something existing phones could do, but don't. |
| 03:54.53 | bhima | Some of my phones let you do multiple bluetooth links so you can do it that way if you want. The last GSM phone I bought didn't support the standard protocols :( |
| 03:54.56 | SpeedEvil | As it'd warp their fragile little minds. |
| 03:55.24 | SpeedEvil | Being able to GSM+GPRS would be nice. |
| 03:55.32 | bhima | I don't think _any_ phones can do concurrent voice and data without WCDMA. |
| 03:55.45 | bhima | Verizoff / SPrint CDMA protocols can't do concurrent voice/data on their 3G network. |
| 03:55.46 | SpeedEvil | Is that inherent in the protocol? |
| 03:56.08 | SpeedEvil | The GSM protocol. |
| 03:56.11 | bhima | For the EvDO and higher CDMA protocols, yes, my understanding is that it's inherent. |
| 03:56.16 | empty_mind | bhima, you mean to say there are phones which will let you set multiple bluetooth connections simultaneously ? |
| 03:56.18 | SpeedEvil | GSM. |
| 03:56.28 | SpeedEvil | CDMA is irrelevant. |
| 03:56.35 | SpeedEvil | To the neo - at least in the short term. |
| 03:56.39 | bhima | For GSM, it's inherently impractical. |
| 03:56.51 | bhima | You have 8 time slices, 1 needed for voice. |
| 03:57.19 | bhima | So if you wanted to do concurrent voice and data, you'd need to mingle voice and data on a single channel. |
| 03:58.01 | bhima | AIUI, GPRS is added to existing voice cells by removing voice management components and putting GPRS management components there. |
| 03:58.13 | rwhitby | Anyone else tried MokoMakefile yet? |
| 03:58.18 | bhima | The bit transmission foo is the same, but the management layer that feeds it the bits is different. |
| 03:58.23 | SpeedEvil | So it's basically either/or. |
| 03:58.29 | empty_mind | rwhitby, i am planning to try it tonight |
| 03:58.53 | empty_mind | rwhitby, just trying to understand the specs first |
| 03:58.57 | bhima | So, from a network utilization standpoint it would be challenging, and from a cell infrastructure design standpoint, it would also be challenging. |
| 03:58.57 | aloril | bhima: at least one existing can do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Class_A_GPRS_Phones |
| 03:59.06 | empty_mind | rwhitby, you want me to try something different ? |
| 03:59.21 | aloril | bhima: and there are at least 2 upcoming from Nokia not mentioned at that page AFAIC |
| 03:59.22 | rwhitby | empty_mind: you can do that while you're waiting for the compile to finish - you'll have many hours ... |
| 04:00.11 | bhima | aloril: interesting. So it can do two frequencies at once...? |
| 04:00.42 | empty_mind | rwhitby, cool, so i will start in few hours. once i reach office |
| 04:01.40 | bhima | (at one point, I was thinking of sticking a CF EvDO and CF GPRS card into a small case with a gumstix. Get me nice fast data and voice at once.) |
| 04:02.06 | wmealing | sucks about the battery life though :) |
| 04:02.10 | SpeedEvil | You can't do two CF with cumstick can you? |
| 04:02.15 | SpeedEvil | s/cu/gu/ |
| 04:02.28 | SpeedEvil | gah. |
| 04:02.42 | bhima | SpeedEvil: Not without some extra PCB design... |
| 04:03.02 | bhima | http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=67687 talks about Nokia's concurrent voice/data stuff. |
| 04:04.20 | bhima | The spec sheet is interesting: |
| 04:04.24 | bhima | Dual Transfer Mode (DTM) support for simultaneous voice and packet data connection in GSM/EDGE networks. Simple class A, multi slot class 11, max speed DL/UL: 177.6/118.4 kbits/s |
| 04:04.25 | bhima | EGPRS class B, multi slot class 32, max speed DL/UL= 296 / 177.6 kbits/s |
| 04:04.31 | aloril | from http://europe.nokia.com/A4346043 "GPRS/EGPRS (Class A, MSC 32)" and "Dual transfer mode MSC11, SAIC rel v1" and wiki GPRS page: it seems it requires operator support |
| 04:04.49 | SpeedEvil | Is it anSigh. |
| 04:05.09 | bhima | It looks like you only get class A if the base station does what I said - spreads the voice users out as much as possible. |
| 04:05.46 | SpeedEvil | It's a pity data calls are so damn expensive in many places. |
| 04:05.52 | SpeedEvil | (mobile-mobile) |
| 04:06.06 | SpeedEvil | As at least that would - with your own codec get you a small side channel. |
| 04:06.23 | bhima | I found the latency on mobile-mobile data to be very high. |
| 04:06.30 | bhima | CSD mobile-mobile. |
| 04:06.49 | SpeedEvil | I thought a call would be better than GPRS. |
| 04:07.00 | SpeedEvil | Handled as realtime, not best effort. |
| 04:07.06 | bhima | I think there is error correction overhead. |
| 04:07.21 | SpeedEvil | Ah. Be nice to turn that off. |
| 04:07.31 | bhima | I did some testing and some googling a few years ago. It looked like the problem was in the phones. |
| 04:07.35 | aloril | so.. if GSM module was open, we could get DTM too |
| 04:07.54 | bhima | I know that some older Apple remote access stuff turned off compression and error correction in your modem. |
| 04:08.06 | bhima | They implmented their own protocols for that to preserve responsiveness. |
| 04:08.38 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@cpe-76-173-101-179.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 04:08.41 | SpeedEvil | Over slow links, FEC usually wins. |
| 04:16.07 | rwhitby | http://planet.openmoko.org/ now has the MokoMakefile blog entry. |
| 04:22.17 | aloril | what about page like this in wiki: "Put your nick here if you intent to order Phase-1 phone as it becomes available. This is *not* preorder or order page and thus preferably put nick instead of name here. This is just for fun." or something like that .. |
| 04:27.45 | *** join/#openmoko Agrajag-_ (n=filip@c211-30-185-177.artrmn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 04:28.29 | Psi_ | that could be good for getting an estimate and maybe what the demand will be for each color |
| 04:30.47 | bhima | I want one in carbon fiber. Real carbon fiber. |
| 04:32.00 | aloril | estimate would most likely be too low, I suspect sizeof(people_willing_to_order) > sizeof(people_willing_to_just_note_interest) |
| 04:32.17 | SpeedEvil | IME - not, |
| 04:32.23 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@146-115-126-156.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 04:32.29 | SpeedEvil | I've done some bulk orders over the net. |
| 04:32.39 | SpeedEvil | Admittedly only for stuff costing $50 |
| 04:32.45 | SpeedEvil | and only 50 of. |
| 04:32.49 | SpeedEvil | 100 of. |
| 04:32.56 | SpeedEvil | But I only had one dropout. |
| 04:33.01 | SpeedEvil | It might be higher for phones. |
| 04:33.17 | bhima | I want one, but I'm not sure I will buy it for $350. |
| 04:33.26 | Psi_ | it would be good for getting the percentages of each color to produce though |
| 04:33.40 | SpeedEvil | Language such as "Please note your interest only if you have $350 set aside to purchase the neo" |
| 04:33.43 | SpeedEvil | may help |
| 04:33.53 | aloril | hmm.. so nick + color + count |
| 04:33.59 | wm_eddie | Holy crap Quake 2 runs on the N800 0.0 |
| 04:34.07 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 04:34.09 | Psi_ | hah |
| 04:34.15 | bhima | I do have the $$$. But there's a shiny new lens I want for my camera, and the iPhone is coming out too... |
| 04:34.17 | SpeedEvil | Doom II should just about run on the neo. |
| 04:34.35 | Psi_ | doom 2 should run fine imho |
| 04:34.41 | SpeedEvil | Well. |
| 04:34.51 | SpeedEvil | There is of course the whole touchscreen thing. |
| 04:34.56 | Psi_ | hehe |
| 04:35.07 | bhima | And my boss jsut gave me an N800, and I have my 770, and an E70, so, erm, maybe I have too many portable gadgets. |
| 04:35.11 | wm_eddie | usb PS2/bluetooth controller. |
| 04:35.23 | Clint | that's why i sold my 770 |
| 04:35.24 | bhima | Use the Wii remote. :) |
| 04:35.34 | SpeedEvil | The wii remote also has a camera! |
| 04:35.37 | bhima | Clint: It looks so much nicer than the N800, though. |
| 04:35.39 | SpeedEvil | Two birds with one stone. |
| 04:35.43 | Clint | yeah, and it doesn't have that bulge |
| 04:35.44 | bhima | SpeedEvil: But only for four points :( |
| 04:35.58 | Clint | but it doesn't have enough memory |
| 04:36.00 | SpeedEvil | Actually - AIUI, it is a general purpose IR camera. |
| 04:36.10 | SpeedEvil | Of very low resolution. |
| 04:36.13 | bhima | SpeedEvil: I thought that you couldn't turn it into that mode. |
| 04:36.17 | bhima | I think it's a megapixel. |
| 04:36.30 | SpeedEvil | I mean like 128*128 or something. |
| 04:37.16 | bhima | yeah, megapixel says wikipedia. |
| 04:37.52 | SpeedEvil | I find sources saying 20KP. |
| 04:38.05 | SpeedEvil | I don't believe megapixel for a moment - pointless. |
| 04:38.14 | SpeedEvil | You can't get the update rate cheaply at that res. |
| 04:39.32 | SpeedEvil | http://www.wiili.org/forum/logging-linear-force-data-t193.html |
| 04:40.27 | bhima | Why did Nokia make the N800 so much uglier? |
| 04:40.34 | bhima | With such terrible buttons? |
| 04:40.54 | bhima | It's been Nokiafied. They made it look all shiny and cheap and glossy, like most of their other products. |
| 04:41.42 | asantoni | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPh2Os0D8pY <-- Quake2 on N800 |
| 04:42.50 | SpeedEvil | The buttons don't exactly look tactile. |
| 04:43.00 | bhima | They don't feel tacticle. |
| 04:43.04 | bhima | But they actually seem to work. |
| 04:43.07 | bhima | They just feel like crap. |
| 04:43.14 | SpeedEvil | Unfortunately, people seem to buy on thebasis of 'oooh shiny' these days. |
| 04:43.21 | SpeedEvil | Without actually feeling how it works. |
| 04:43.30 | bhima | They're small and exceedingly cheap chromey. |
| 04:43.55 | bhima | The 770's buttons, IMHO, were very nicely built. |
| 04:56.10 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@222-155-218-140.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 04:56.17 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buying_Interest_List (not linked from anywhere yet) |
| 05:01.56 | *** join/#openmoko johnr (n=banglaed@c-67-180-255-128.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:03.26 | wmealing | wow, this is hawt. |
| 05:03.37 | wmealing | finally my dream to take over the world can be realised. |
| 05:04.02 | wmealing | race ya. |
| 05:04.26 | wm_eddie | I took over the world yesterday, but I decided to leave it the way it was because it's kind of interesting. |
| 05:08.08 | wmealing | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Search <-- im so down with that.. and it seems doable. |
| 05:14.10 | aevin | good idea, rwhitby |
| 05:14.53 | rwhitby | In nslu2-linux, we have the MasterMakefile in a monotone branch alongside org.openembedded.dev |
| 05:15.32 | aloril | hmm.. wonder if it would be OK to add Buying_Interest_List to Main_Page in Miscellaneous section below wishlist ? |
| 05:15.45 | rwhitby | aevin: But since OpenMoko seems to have chosen SVN (which is fine with me), then putting it on projects.openmoko.org makes sense |
| 05:16.11 | rwhitby | aloril: it's a wiki - it's always OK :-) |
| 05:16.28 | aloril | rwhitby: hehe, just wondered if there was better place |
| 05:16.45 | SpeedEvil | Ah - so that's how you do tables. |
| 05:16.53 | gw280 | so has anyone ported the openmoko gui/gsm stack to any other phones yet? |
| 05:20.24 | *** join/#openmoko dion (n=dion@xen.inhex.net) |
| 05:25.58 | aloril | rwhitby: hehe (phase 0 edit) |
| 05:26.09 | rwhitby | couldn't resist |
| 05:26.49 | SpeedEvil | Let us know if you want to change that to -1 :) |
| 05:27.17 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: *very* unlikely |
| 05:27.42 | rwhitby | I'll provide MokoMakefile and MokoSlug for your enjoyment instead ... |
| 05:46.47 | *** join/#openmoko etheisen (n=etheisen@user-11210ka.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 05:50.45 | *** join/#openmoko catchjosh (n=catchjos@24-155-28-39.dyn.grandenetworks.net) |
| 05:54.28 | rwhitby | anyone else tried the MokoMakefile yet? |
| 05:54.54 | wmealing | in progress |
| 05:55.14 | aloril | and woah, recentchanges for wikipedia really flies |
| 05:55.19 | wmealing | and.. there it goes. |
| 05:55.23 | wmealing | [ -e openembedded/_MTN/revision ] || \ |
| 05:55.23 | wmealing | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:55.23 | wmealing | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:55.23 | wmealing | mtn: misuse: layout of database /home/moko/OE.mtn doesn't match this version of monotone |
| 05:55.23 | wmealing | mtn: misuse: wanted schema ae196843d368d042f475e3dadfed11e9d7f9f01e, got 48fd5d84f1e5a949ca093e87e5ac558da6e5956d |
| 05:55.25 | wmealing | mtn: misuse: try 'mtn db migrate' to upgrade |
| 05:55.27 | wmealing | mtn: misuse: (this is irreversible; you may want to make a backup copy first) |
| 05:55.36 | aloril | wmealing: you need monotone-0.32 |
| 05:55.49 | wmealing | ah, my eyes skipped over the version. |
| 05:55.55 | wmealing | monotone-0.31-2.fc6 |
| 05:55.56 | wmealing | that'll teach me |
| 05:56.04 | aloril | rwhitby: maybe add check that user actually has this version hmm... I'll edit openembedded page |
| 05:56.39 | rwhitby | aloril: yep, I can add that check. |
| 05:56.54 | *** join/#openmoko mtm (n=mtm@207.47.98.129.static.nextweb.net) |
| 05:59.08 | aloril | ah, its mentioned there already ( http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/OEandYourDistro (wasn't there when I was reading that)) |
| 06:01.29 | rwhitby | aloril: before you upgrade, can you try something for me? |
| 06:01.41 | *** join/#openmoko PhilKC_ (i=greece@freenode/staff/about.linux.philkc) |
| 06:03.00 | aloril | rwhitby: upgrade what? |
| 06:03.24 | rwhitby | aloril: before you install monotone 0.32 |
| 06:03.40 | rwhitby | oh, wmealing instead |
| 06:03.41 | aloril | rwhitby: did that yesterday as instructions said ;-) |
| 06:03.51 | wmealing | sure |
| 06:03.52 | rwhitby | wmealing: have you upgraded monotone yet? |
| 06:03.54 | wmealing | no |
| 06:03.57 | wmealing | i'm rebuilding the rpm as we speak |
| 06:04.15 | rwhitby | what does "mtn --db OE.mtn db version" report when you're running 0.31 on a 0.32 database? |
| 06:05.00 | wmealing | ]# mtn --db OE.mtn db version |
| 06:05.00 | wmealing | database schema version: 48fd5d84f1e5a949ca093e87e5ac558da6e5956d |
| 06:05.06 | wmealing | # rpm -q monotone |
| 06:05.07 | wmealing | monotone-0.31-2.fc6 |
| 06:06.09 | aloril | wmealing: what does "mtn --version" say? |
| 06:06.32 | wmealing | # mtn --version |
| 06:06.33 | wmealing | monotone 0.31 (base revision: unknown) |
| 06:06.38 | rwhitby | wmealing: so it doesn't report an error? |
| 06:06.42 | aloril | mtn --version |
| 06:06.42 | aloril | monotone 0.32 (base revision: 3f0fa5c1d232d37d47f6436fe74919dd3cd003b1) |
| 06:06.45 | wmealing | the -2 are just build version patches. |
| 06:06.59 | wmealing | ie, to make sure it puts it in the right place.. and set selinux permissions. |
| 06:08.47 | wmealing | is that all ? |
| 06:09.21 | rwhitby | wmealing: yeah, there's no easy way to check then, apart from comparing version numbers in shell. |
| 06:10.26 | rwhitby | If I can think of an easy way in the shell to test the string "0.31" to see if it's equal to or larger than "0.32", then I'll add the check. |
| 06:10.38 | *** join/#openmoko Psi_ (n=benw@203.152.97.213) |
| 06:10.53 | wmealing | not in a cross distro way. |
| 06:13.57 | rwhitby | wmealing: it's just preparing for when emacs becomes your base OS ... |
| 06:14.39 | weez | will buying a developer model as soon as it comes out help the cause? even if I am so overloaded with work that all I can do is basically be a user? |
| 06:14.56 | aloril | well.. you can test for it being equal to 0.31 (which is incomplete test, but might still catch most cases where monotone is too old) ? |
| 06:16.45 | weez | rwhitby: does this help? http://archives.devshed.com/forums/unix-linux-135/comparing-decimals-in-bash-372739.html |
| 06:17.16 | *** join/#openmoko PhilKC (i=greece@freenode/staff/about.linux.philkc) |
| 06:18.51 | weez | rwhitby: or here is a function to compare real numbers in bash that is mentioned in the first link http://tinyurl.com/hmcz |
| 06:21.36 | rwhitby | ooh - looks like I might be able to do it in an awk one-liner (since I was going to use awk to get the number from the "mtn --version" output anyway) |
| 06:21.58 | weez | <rwhitby> mispelled your nick.. sorry. |
| 06:24.47 | aloril | weez: if you can file bug reports, then it helps development |
| 06:25.37 | aloril | being outside FIC don't have idea about sales numbers and their meaning, etc.. though good Phase-2 sales seems to obvious good thing |
| 06:27.54 | rwhitby | hmm - I just realised that I don't want to test the monotone version in MokoMakefile, cause I will be running it with monotone 0.31 |
| 06:28.17 | rwhitby | (If you get the OE database from nslu2-linux.org, it is an 0.27 db version and can be upgraded to 0.31) |
| 06:29.23 | rwhitby | the network protocol is compatible from 0.27 upwards - it's just that OE decided to distributed a pre-built 0.32 database (most recent version) instead of a 0.27 database (earliest version that still is network protocol compatible). Both valid choices. |
| 06:38.03 | aloril | hmm gizmodo article has 417 digs, while http://www.openmoko.org/ has only 14 digs.. |
| 06:39.47 | rwhitby | MokoMakefile now has a 'make check-makefile' to see if you've got the latest and what has changed. |
| 06:42.14 | *** join/#openmoko arunp (i=arun@nat/cisco/x-37186539906d2524) |
| 06:44.27 | rwhitby | aloril: have you seen LaF0rge's photos? |
| 06:45.41 | *** join/#openmoko sircrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 06:46.20 | sircrow | Hi @ll |
| 06:47.30 | aloril | rwhitby: ah, yeah, forgot that one |
| 06:47.50 | aloril | Phase_-1 dev photo ;-) |
| 06:48.21 | rwhitby | jh|home: still building? |
| 06:50.06 | aloril | rwhitby: I can see why Sean is not powering it on, that screen shot is different from mockups ;-) |
| 06:50.33 | cbpage | where are they? |
| 06:50.49 | rwhitby | http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/photos/gta01bv2_omoko/ |
| 06:51.11 | rwhitby | (not recommended for dial-up) |
| 06:53.10 | cbpage | cool |
| 06:54.00 | anselm | very cool |
| 06:54.16 | rwhitby | heh, the guy in http://crunchgear.com/2007/02/15/openmokos-open-source-mobile-os/ is holding it upside down |
| 06:56.51 | aloril | rwhitby: ooh, not seen those pictures, I just remember something much older and plain looking (don't recall where) |
| 06:57.28 | rd_ | counter |
| 06:57.29 | aloril | P0: a week, 6 days 05:02:31 (7.210 - 13.210 days); P1: 29.210 - 44.210; P2: 197.210 - 227.210 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (340) |
| 06:58.10 | rd_ | aloril, do we need to pre-order the phase 1 phone? |
| 06:59.11 | aloril | rd_: I don't think so (and there is no preorder page yet of course) |
| 06:59.36 | aloril | rd_: I think you can buy phase-1 phone any time between P1 and P2 |
| 07:04.22 | nm | hi *, which GSM/GPRS modem TI used in Neo1973 ? |
| 07:04.41 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware |
| 07:04.45 | nm | i found it connect to S3C2410 UART1 |
| 07:05.16 | nm | aloril: i'm reading it, but i can't get series of this modem ? |
| 07:05.17 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 07:05.52 | rwhitby | hey koen |
| 07:06.09 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:06.44 | koen | hey rwhitby |
| 07:08.29 | rwhitby | koen: did bitbake 1.6 trunk recently get a change where SRCDATE is now used for svn checkouts? |
| 07:09.32 | *** join/#openmoko don-o (n=donp@206.163.122.98) |
| 07:09.59 | nm | aloril: how do i buy this phone and debug board ? |
| 07:10.07 | aloril | counter? |
| 07:10.07 | aloril | source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; a week, 6 days 04:49:52 (7.201 - 13.201 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, a week, 6 days (29.201 - 44.201 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, a week, 6 days (197.201 - 227.201 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (341) |
| 07:11.02 | don-o | nm: see topic |
| 07:11.49 | nm | okie, thx |
| 07:12.18 | *** join/#openmoko etheisen (n=etheisen@user-11210ka.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 07:12.26 | *** part/#openmoko sircrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 07:12.49 | wmealing | gah, my built failed. |
| 07:13.52 | wmealing | my build rather. |
| 07:16.58 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=rob_w@p549B93E5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:18.38 | nm | very cool, this is great project !!! |
| 07:19.08 | koen | rwhitby: iirc yes |
| 07:19.19 | koen | rwhitby: bitbake 1.6.4 had changes to fix the svn fetcher |
| 07:19.37 | koen | rwhitby: but I use only bitbake trunk (e.g. 1.7.x) |
| 07:20.45 | rwhitby | looks like the SRCDATE in openmoko/trunk/oe/conf/site.conf has a SRCDATE in it, and bitbake 1.6.4 is picking that up and using it when checking out the kernel patches in gta01-kernel-2.6 |
| 07:21.01 | rwhitby | hmm - make that bitbake 1.6.5 |
| 07:22.08 | rwhitby | if anyone has problems checking out the kernel patches from svn when building, this may be the cause. I worked around it by just adding a rev=1004 to the SRC_URI entry. |
| 07:23.38 | *** join/#openmoko Mairen (n=sven@80-218-100-149.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:24.15 | rob_w | rwhitby, your script is cool .. but does it assume to use the normal local.conf coming with oe ? |
| 07:25.01 | rwhitby | rob_w: my script codifies the http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch page, including the local.conf file that the instructions on that page creates. |
| 07:25.13 | rwhitby | s/script/Makefile/ |
| 07:26.01 | rwhitby | I wasn't aware of local.conf file that comes with OE. local.conf.sample, yes, but no local.conf ... |
| 07:26.12 | rob_w | yeah i meant the sample .. |
| 07:26.35 | rob_w | so according to this , those mentioned 4 lines are all i need as local.conf .. |
| 07:27.06 | rob_w | so maybe my old local.conf give me my current problems .. thanks for your help |
| 07:27.07 | rwhitby | rob_w: the MokoMakefile doesn't change the operation of bitbake or OE at all. so you set up your local.conf as normal in OE. |
| 07:27.44 | *** join/#openmoko fix-- (n=fix@86.39.154.74) |
| 07:27.59 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-124-175-128.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 07:28.19 | *** join/#openmoko cying (n=cying@adsl-75-41-125-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 07:28.19 | rob_w | hmm what i dont understand is the difference between BBPATH and BBFILES .. my BBPATH is setup to include openmoko in its wanted order ,.. but my old local.conf BBFILES only points to org.openembedded.org/packages/*/*.bb |
| 07:28.37 | rwhitby | that would be a problem I think |
| 07:29.09 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:29.20 | rob_w | yeah i also think so .. i will give your script priority . thanks |
| 07:29.39 | rob_w | maybe BBFILES is deprecated already |
| 07:30.04 | rwhitby | rob_w: it's a *makefile*, not a script :-) |
| 07:30.18 | rwhitby | very different beasts |
| 07:30.43 | rob_w | well,, still beasts anyway |
| 07:31.19 | rwhitby | using a script instead of a Makefile is like using Linksys's source tree instead of using OpenEmbedded ... |
| 07:31.43 | rwhitby | just so .... primitive. |
| 07:32.19 | rob_w | hehe, the "makefile" is quite cool as it also handles all updates n stuff , thats great |
| 07:33.08 | rob_w | i like people that provide rounded work to the community .. may tend to only stiff info`s coming from their own cases |
| 07:33.26 | rob_w | s/may/many |
| 07:34.14 | rob_w | so today is the day the phase0 units leave Taiwan ?? |
| 07:34.37 | rwhitby | not that I'm aware of ... |
| 07:35.25 | rob_w | oh i thought the annouce said friday .. letme read it again |
| 07:35.34 | rwhitby | Hmm - pity my build just fell over on the kernel. Ah well, that's the good thing about the MokoMakefile - someone else will have the same error and fix it for me. |
| 07:36.36 | rob_w | ".... phase 0 phones out around the end of this month." |
| 07:38.26 | wmealing | is there any chance someone has monotone .32 built for FC6 handy ? |
| 07:38.51 | koen | venge.net/monotone |
| 07:39.15 | aloril | ftp://ftp.blagblagblag.org/pub/BLAG/linux/60000/en/os/i386/BLAG/RPMS.TESTING/monotone-0.32-0blag.fc6.i386.rpm ftp://ftp.blagblagblag.org/pub/BLAG/linux/60000/en/os/i386/BLAG/RPMS.TESTING/bitbake-1.6.2-0blag.fc6.noarch.rpm |
| 07:39.28 | wmealing | sweet ! thanks aloril |
| 07:39.39 | aloril | (links here from 2 days ago or so) |
| 07:40.27 | wmealing | koen, suses rpms dont build on FC6 |
| 07:40.50 | koen | where did I say you had to use suse RPMs? |
| 07:41.13 | koen | http://venge.net/monotone/downloads/mtn-0.32-linux-x86.bz2 |
| 07:41.32 | koen | NOTE: package linux-gta01-2.6.20-moko7-r1: task do_build: completed |
| 07:43.20 | rob_w | koen, nice .. |
| 07:43.44 | rob_w | koen, is BBFILES deprecated ? |
| 07:43.55 | koen | rob_w: not that I know off |
| 07:44.22 | rob_w | will it interfere with the way openmoko is included ? ( BBPATH priority ? ) |
| 07:46.11 | rob_w | oh i see |
| 07:46.13 | fix-- | maybe stupid question, but is the neo already available for sale ? |
| 07:46.32 | koen | fix--: no |
| 07:46.46 | koen | hrw: yes, you're in the channel, not the topic :) |
| 07:46.46 | fix-- | koen, also not for devs? |
| 07:46.53 | koen | fix--: correct |
| 07:46.55 | koen | coutner |
| 07:46.58 | koen | counter |
| 07:46.58 | aloril | P0: a week, 6 days 04:13:01 (7.176 - 13.176 days); P1: 29.176 - 44.176; P2: 197.176 - 227.176 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (342) |
| 07:47.08 | rob_w | koen, how do you work out openmoko ? |
| 07:47.21 | koen | rob_w: everything I need is in oe .dev |
| 07:47.52 | hrw | kOEn like someone told to mark that koen use OE only |
| 07:48.17 | rob_w | that would be also my preffered way to work |
| 07:48.57 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 07:49.25 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485F283.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:50.17 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (n=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 07:59.27 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 08:00.07 | *** join/#openmoko dullard_ (n=jim@adsl-static-1-30.uklinux.net) |
| 08:04.56 | koen | "Is every device on earth with a touch screen now locked in mortal combat with the iPhone?" |
| 08:05.32 | wmealing | yes. |
| 08:05.37 | wmealing | because apple did it first |
| 08:05.38 | wmealing | dont you knokw ? |
| 08:06.12 | wmealing | by this time next year, ever device with an LCD will be considered a knock off. |
| 08:09.26 | *** join/#openmoko tafazzi (n=Dario@85-18-114-176.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 08:10.15 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@91.64.160.193) |
| 08:12.23 | aloril | of course those who know, know that Neo1973 was announced first ;-) |
| 08:12.44 | aloril | fix--: |
| 08:12.46 | aloril | counter? |
| 08:12.46 | aloril | source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; a week, 6 days 03:47:14 (7.158 - 13.158 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, a week, 6 days (29.158 - 44.158 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, a week, 6 days (197.158 - 227.158 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (343) |
| 08:14.46 | wmealing | just out of interest, there is going to be a program for this which.. updates/gets new software right ? |
| 08:14.50 | wmealing | like a system updater ? |
| 08:16.49 | hrw | yes |
| 08:26.08 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 08:26.22 | *** join/#openmoko apardo (n=apardo@87.217.145.227) |
| 08:27.12 | *** join/#openmoko PasqualeBF_ (n=pat@rrcs-67-78-131-202.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 08:27.55 | PasqualeBF_ | just read the press release guys -- very excited! |
| 08:28.31 | PasqualeBF_ | its 330 where im at... i can't sleep... and after reading that press release, I dont think im gonna be able to sleep :) |
| 08:29.53 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 08:35.46 | aloril | PasqualeBF_: if you haven't yet looked, you might want to look at http://www.openmoko.org/ |
| 08:36.12 | rd_ | still, missing wifi due to binary driver is quite bad -.- |
| 08:36.37 | PasqualeBF_ | looks like the site has been updated since ive last checked -- very nice |
| 08:37.16 | PasqualeBF_ | would be ass kicking if you guys were taking preorders -- i would already have my cc number typed in |
| 08:41.19 | *** join/#openmoko robtaylor (n=robtaylo@63.99.9.131) |
| 08:41.30 | PasqualeBF_ | any urls to a bunch of snapshots? |
| 08:41.39 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 08:49.40 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@251.9.39-62.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 08:53.52 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=LuitvD@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 09:18.49 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@80-47-249-244.lond-th.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) |
| 09:20.02 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 09:20.30 | *** join/#openmoko cydork (n=vihang@unaffiliated/cydork) |
| 09:21.03 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning_ (n=blueligh@222-155-129-150.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 09:21.07 | aloril | so far everybody has marked black/silver: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buying_Interest_List |
| 09:21.18 | CM | aloril: Just noticed that |
| 09:21.37 | CM | Almost want to say white/orange just because of that ;) |
| 09:21.54 | aloril | CM: hehe |
| 09:22.28 | *** part/#openmoko jg1 (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 09:23.16 | aloril | hrw: ;-) (there is already one phase-0 entry there ;-) |
| 09:23.26 | hrw | koen: still fighting? |
| 09:23.34 | koen | hrw: I built and oabi gcc-cross |
| 09:23.34 | LuitvD | :P |
| 09:23.49 | koen | later all |
| 09:24.29 | PasqualeBF_ | this phone is going to be the center point between my carpc and its devices. |
| 09:24.53 | rd_ | koen, later |
| 09:25.12 | rd_ | i go for black/silver too :) |
| 09:25.27 | PasqualeBF_ | yee, blacksilver is the way to go. |
| 09:26.13 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 09:26.27 | CM | I case there's any gentoo users here. Updated bitbake ebuild: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=167168 |
| 09:28.29 | rd_ | CM, k |
| 09:28.44 | hrw | CM: bitbake 1.6.4 has a bug - 1.6.6 today/tomorrow |
| 09:29.07 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p549BEDE6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:29.24 | LuitvD | hmm, how can I get qemu to run openmoko |
| 09:29.27 | *** join/#openmoko sureshkumar (n=suresh@196.12.43.162) |
| 09:29.31 | denis^da | good morning guys |
| 09:29.36 | PasqualeBF_ | g morning. |
| 09:29.41 | sureshkumar | hi all good morning |
| 09:30.01 | sureshkumar | I need info on how the GSM protocol stack look like when I am sending a SMS |
| 09:31.34 | rd_ | sureshkumar, check this http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gsmd |
| 09:32.01 | sureshkumar | If we see as an ISO model, we have Application Layer ==> Transport Layer ==> network Layer ==> Data Link Layer ==> Physical layer ==> Air interface (Network). Can any one tell me or guide to some link where we get info like what are the protocols that are used at different levels |
| 09:34.15 | sureshkumar | Hi rd_, what is there in that link |
| 09:34.41 | sureshkumar | I am unable to see any thing about GSM. Its all about how to use gsmd module in OpenMoko |
| 09:34.58 | sureshkumar | Hi all, is any one there? |
| 09:35.16 | sureshkumar | I need some help regarding the GSM protocols and the ones that are used for messaging |
| 09:37.29 | *** join/#openmoko i386 (n=james@210.87.17.18) |
| 09:37.40 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=freyther@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 09:38.00 | PasqualeBF_ | is it my understanding that applications such as Web Browser, IM, etc -- will be with phase 2 release? |
| 09:38.15 | LuitvD | does anyone know how to get openmoko running on qemu? |
| 09:39.02 | rd_ | sureshkumar, umm, its using AT commands to send/receive sms |
| 09:39.17 | rd_ | check gsmd source code under openmoko svn |
| 09:40.02 | CM | hrw|gone: Thanks, I'll update that bug |
| 09:40.03 | rd_ | and check thos spec http://eksente.v-lo.krakow.pl/~sw/GSM/ |
| 09:40.32 | aloril | PasqualeBF_: its Linux, so anything that works fine on those resources and VGA screen should be OK ;-) |
| 09:41.18 | PasqualeBF_ | heh, true :) almost forgot for a moment :) |
| 09:41.45 | PasqualeBF_ | i was looking at the applications wiki -- seems that some of the applications have been divided into phases |
| 09:42.56 | cydork | only thing i am looking forward to is wifi support! as i can see it's in hardware wishlist. :) |
| 09:43.55 | PasqualeBF_ | wifi would be cool -- id manage with a bluetooth link tho. |
| 09:44.06 | rd_ | cydork, yeah, wifi is a key feature to me -.- |
| 09:44.51 | PasqualeBF_ | its a major point on the moko vs iphone list |
| 09:45.09 | *** join/#openmoko jim_rayner (n=jim_rayn@beyondvoice.plus.com) |
| 09:46.06 | pH5 | good morning fluffs |
| 09:46.51 | *** join/#openmoko robtaylor (n=robtaylo@63.99.9.131) |
| 09:47.50 | gw280 | robtaylor: hey |
| 09:50.02 | Elrond | Good Morgaine florian |
| 09:50.05 | Elrond | Good Morgaine Flusher |
| 09:50.10 | Elrond | Good Morgaine fluffs |
| 09:50.13 | Elrond | *grrr* |
| 09:50.26 | florian | good morning |
| 09:50.37 | Elrond | ;o) |
| 09:51.22 | LuitvD | Elrond: lol? |
| 09:52.16 | Elrond | LuitvD - Just logged in and opening up my xterms, hitting more tab then reading. ;) |
| 09:52.20 | LuitvD | what's a good morgaine? :P |
| 09:52.21 | aloril | wifi? |
| 09:52.21 | aloril | When version 1 was designed there was no sufficiently low-power WiFi chip available which has an open driver. You can attach (battery) powered USB hub to Neo1973 and then use supported WiFi USB stick. For more information see http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/InternetAccess |
| 09:52.58 | LuitvD | aloril: is that a new script? |
| 09:53.34 | cydork | aloril: hmm great! |
| 09:53.49 | LuitvD | hmm, battery-powered USB hubs? do those exist? |
| 09:53.50 | aloril | it has been here since 2007-02-07 |
| 09:54.00 | LuitvD | bluetooth? |
| 09:54.03 | LuitvD | gps? |
| 09:54.06 | LuitvD | edge? |
| 09:54.14 | LuitvD | what about those? |
| 09:54.20 | LuitvD | what other scripts do you have? |
| 09:54.49 | aloril | it actually will answer automatically if some new nick asks about wifi with question mark ;-) |
| 09:55.01 | tigert | maemo wiki has some usb power hub stuff I think |
| 09:55.21 | tigert | and also there might be some googleable stuff for "nokia 770 usb power injector" etc |
| 09:55.29 | tigert | maybe the same concept works here too? |
| 09:55.41 | aloril | well.. there is camera? and counter? but nothing about bluetooth, etc.. those are in product specs |
| 09:56.00 | aloril | tigert: yes, it should |
| 09:56.08 | tigert | yep |
| 09:56.25 | rd_ | aloril, so how about agpsd? |
| 09:56.32 | Elrond | tihi. charging your neo using your bike's generator ;o) |
| 09:56.48 | rd_ | its also binary only, rite? |
| 09:56.56 | aloril | rd_: ah.. yeah, that might merit answer |
| 09:57.07 | aloril | yes, binary only user space daemon |
| 09:57.24 | Elrond | Where are the binaries for agpsd? |
| 09:57.42 | tigert | http://thoughtfix.blogspot.com/2006/01/usb-power-injector-2.html < for the not-easily-scared :) |
| 09:57.45 | rd_ | aloril, what's the different between bianry kernel driver and daemon? :) |
| 09:58.48 | tigert | http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/CPH420MP.asp < battery powered usb hub |
| 09:58.54 | tigert | anyway, time for lunch, happy hacking |
| 09:59.06 | rd_ | aloril, also, the wifi driver could be open source, only firmware is in binary |
| 09:59.17 | LuitvD | wohoo, qemu runs an ARM image :D |
| 09:59.17 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-177-093.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:59.33 | LuitvD | now where is the openmoko kernel? :P |
| 09:59.43 | rd_ | LuitvD, check wiki :) |
| 09:59.50 | sureshkumar | I need some help regarding the GSM protocols and the ones that are used for messaging |
| 09:59.54 | tigert | would it be possible to use scratchbox for running openmoko btw? |
| 09:59.57 | sureshkumar | If we see as an ISO model, we have Application Layer ==> Transport Layer ==> network Layer ==> Data Link Layer ==> Physical layer ==> Air interface (Network). Can any one tell me or guide to some link where we get info like what are the protocols that are used at different levels |
| 10:00.20 | rd_ | sureshkumar, umm, i gave you the answer already -.- |
| 10:00.23 | LuitvD | rd_: found it somewhere yesterday, the rootfs images + precompiled kernels |
| 10:00.37 | LuitvD | i just can't remember where :P |
| 10:00.50 | aloril | rd_: kernel module is problematic from GPL license viewpoint, user space is not |
| 10:01.10 | rd_ | aloril, umm not really :/ |
| 10:01.44 | sureshkumar | is it the spec that you had asked me to check for |
| 10:02.04 | rd_ | sureshkumar, yeah, read those pdf file |
| 10:02.14 | rd_ | GSM_07.05.pdf |
| 10:02.22 | aloril | rd_: Harald Welte GPL violations guy thinks so, so its quite unlikely OpenMoko will include binary only kernel modules |
| 10:02.36 | sureshkumar | I didn't understand them. they are communication protocol between layers but I want the protocols at each layer for messaging |
| 10:03.00 | rd_ | sureshkumar, its the at commands to communicate with gsm modem |
| 10:03.49 | *** join/#openmoko jim_rayner (n=jim_rayn@beyondvoice.plus.com) |
| 10:04.09 | LuitvD | rd_: found the images agian :) |
| 10:04.23 | sureshkumar | yes |
| 10:04.23 | rd_ | aloril, there are bunch of wifi drivers, using binary only firmware (load by hotflug) on linux |
| 10:04.56 | cydork | LuitvD: link? |
| 10:05.09 | LuitvD | cydork: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/gta01/deploy/images/ |
| 10:05.14 | aloril | rd_: it needs to be low power too, etc.. |
| 10:05.16 | rd_ | s/hotflug/hotplug/ |
| 10:05.21 | cydork | LuitvD: thanks :) |
| 10:05.22 | sureshkumar | rd_: Yes you are right. But I need protocol structure for SMS / MMS to travel from User interface to Air (Network) |
| 10:05.28 | aloril | rd_: situation might have changed by now, but now its too late to change anything |
| 10:05.42 | sureshkumar | All possible protocols that may be used for SMS / MMS |
| 10:05.50 | *** join/#openmoko Elixir- (i=mixed@cpe-66-68-172-127.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 10:06.24 | *** join/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-241-198-145.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 10:06.29 | xkr47 | someone should get adobe to port Flash Lite to linux also :) |
| 10:06.34 | rd_ | sureshkumar, -.- .. i dun get what you meant |
| 10:07.20 | LuitvD | cydork: going to use it in qemu too? |
| 10:07.46 | CM | rd_: We've tried to explain to sureshkumar many times |
| 10:08.06 | rd_ | CM, i see -/- |
| 10:08.44 | cydork | LuitvD: yep, you have any other links regarding that? :) |
| 10:10.10 | LuitvD | cydork: nope... not really... |
| 10:10.17 | LuitvD | couldn't find much on the wiki... |
| 10:11.44 | Elrond | BTW: Anyone knows, what's up with Morgaine? |
| 10:12.24 | LuitvD | Elrond: eh, what is? |
| 10:12.26 | CM | ~seen Morgaine |
| 10:12.42 | apt | morgaine is currently on #openmoko, last said: 'The D-Link DWL-P200 PoE units have never given me any trouble btw, in case anyone's considering one.'. |
| 10:12.42 | CM | apt: Awake? |
| 10:12.44 | apt | It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. |
| 10:13.14 | LuitvD | ... cafaine addict? |
| 10:13.24 | LuitvD | s/cafaine/caffeine/ |
| 10:13.28 | kimuSan^ | who's not |
| 10:13.32 | LuitvD | ^^ |
| 10:16.22 | Elrond | <-- not caffeine addict |
| 10:16.37 | LuitvD | boo |
| 10:16.49 | LuitvD | cydork: anything running yet? :P |
| 10:18.41 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@213.23.202.22) |
| 10:19.07 | cydork | LuitvD: not tried yet.. just googling atm :P |
| 10:19.58 | LuitvD | cydork: it's not working for me yet... |
| 10:20.29 | *** join/#openmoko chrustinho (n=christop@p57B04471.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:20.33 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@124.177.196.211) |
| 10:23.22 | rd_ | btw, its going to be lunar new year in the next 6:30mins here :) |
| 10:24.41 | *** join/#openmoko Agrajag-_ (n=filip@c211-30-185-177.artrmn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 10:24.48 | rd_ | aloril, hope that wifi would be in the next version of openmoko :) |
| 10:26.15 | Stephmw | mornin |
| 10:27.17 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@124.177.196.211) |
| 10:28.53 | *** join/#openmoko _-InFeRnO-_ (n=KeKeKe@cable-84-43-138-4.mnet.bg) |
| 10:29.19 | _-InFeRnO-_ | ne1 knows when will GPRS be usable in gsmd |
| 10:29.45 | *** join/#openmoko moo_tang_clan (n=nmoo@barney.alcoholicsunanimous.com) |
| 10:29.47 | _-InFeRnO-_ | and can it receive SMS? |
| 10:29.51 | mjr | LuitvD, I saw in my log your comment on 160 bytes; no, SMS are 140 bytes; they often use 7-bit charsets, though, yielding 160 characters |
| 10:30.20 | LuitvD | :P |
| 10:30.26 | LuitvD | mjr: how odd... |
| 10:31.16 | LuitvD | mjr: though there is some extra information sent with that sms message... |
| 10:31.20 | LuitvD | like... ttl... |
| 10:31.55 | Elrond | Yep. Headers. I think, they're binary. |
| 10:33.23 | rd_ | yeap, up to 160 characters, 7 bit alphabet |
| 10:37.00 | _-InFeRnO-_ | bump |
| 10:42.38 | *** join/#openmoko PsychoChicken (n=karypid@80-254-67-217.dynamic.monzoon.net) |
| 10:44.38 | PsychoChicken | sorry for the possibly dumb question: do I need a phone to test openmoko U/I stuff (no need for the GSM hardware) or is there something like a "virtual framebuffer device" to run stuff on a normal PC even without the phone hardware? |
| 10:44.52 | CM | _-InFeRnO-_: I haven't heard anything about it yet, but Harald Welte said on his blog on wednesday "I'll now look into getting the CPU clock to 266MHz (we've had some issues with this) and finally, after all, TS07.10 multiplex and gsmd infrastructure, for which I consistently haven't found time until now." |
| 10:45.24 | CM | PsychoChicken: You can use Xoo/Xephyr on your pc |
| 10:45.46 | PsychoChicken | thanks for the pointer. googling for those right now... |
| 10:45.50 | CM | PsychoChicken: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC |
| 10:46.07 | PsychoChicken | CM beats google! |
| 10:46.40 | CM | PsychoChicken: That wiki isn't complete by any means, but it's a good place to look around :) |
| 10:47.44 | PsychoChicken | or, I'll follow the instructions and stretch my rusty wiki-editing skills at the same time ;-) |
| 10:47.57 | CM | Please do :) |
| 10:49.53 | LuitvD | meh, I just want to run this on qemu... |
| 10:50.07 | LuitvD | does anyone have a precompiled qemu-kernel lying around? |
| 10:52.27 | CM | I'm using gcc-4.1.2 on 64 bit, so I can't even compile qemu :/ |
| 10:52.59 | LuitvD | CM: I'm running 64-bit, and qemu is working just fine... |
| 10:53.07 | LuitvD | though I don't know my gcc version |
| 10:53.21 | CM | It only compiles with 3.x |
| 10:53.33 | LuitvD | CM: what distro are you running? |
| 10:53.47 | CM | But apparently they're working on getting gcc4.x working |
| 10:53.49 | CM | gentoo |
| 10:54.03 | LuitvD | hmm... |
| 10:54.12 | _-InFeRnO-_ | is gsmd usable with a regular gsm modem or only with Calypso? |
| 10:54.37 | LuitvD | CM: I simply downloaded the fedora rpm packages... doesn't gentoo have any qemu packages? |
| 10:54.58 | denis^da | LuitvD, I lost 5€s yesterday :/ ;) |
| 10:55.29 | CM | LuitvD: They do, of course, and also support having multiple gcc versions. So basically I'm just being lazy.. ;) |
| 10:55.31 | LuitvD | denis^da: lol, thought you'd lose 2,5€ at max :P |
| 10:55.47 | rd_ | _-InFeRnO-_, not sure, but i gess it would be usable with regualr gsm modem |
| 10:55.51 | pH5 | _-InFeRnO-_: it will support vendor specific modules. |
| 10:55.57 | denis^da | LuitvD, yeah I couldn't resist buying one more packet of chips |
| 10:56.03 | LuitvD | lol |
| 10:56.17 | _-InFeRnO-_ | ok. is a "generic" module planned? |
| 10:56.19 | *** part/#openmoko sureshkumar (n=suresh@196.12.43.162) |
| 10:56.20 | pH5 | I have it running on a HTC Magician with small modifications, and I think it works on HTC Universal too, already. |
| 10:56.22 | LuitvD | denis^da: that is indeed a very tempting thing... trying again :P |
| 10:56.53 | LuitvD | pH5: did you compile the kernel images yourself? |
| 10:57.06 | denis^da | LuitvD, yeah but it is not good :D, it was so frustrating so I had to install Linux on my Palm TX in order to get up again :D http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/7669/02lf4.png |
| 10:57.24 | thresh | according to http://git.altlinux.ru/people/kas/packages/?p=qemu.git we build qemu with gcc-4 |
| 10:57.26 | LuitvD | denis^da: :) |
| 10:57.45 | thresh | as well as mandriva, it seems |
| 10:58.19 | CM | thresh: I'll look at it :) |
| 10:59.07 | LuitvD | denis^da: what kind of cpu does it have? arm or Xscale? |
| 10:59.27 | pH5 | LuitvD: I didn't compile the neo kernel images yet. Until I get one, I'm trying to get the userspace apps to run on my device. |
| 10:59.33 | denis^da | Xscale @ LuitvD |
| 10:59.39 | _-InFeRnO-_ | isn't xscale arm? |
| 10:59.47 | LuitvD | _-InFeRnO-_: nope |
| 11:00.00 | denis^da | dont know I'm really a noob concerning these things :D |
| 11:00.07 | LuitvD | _-InFeRnO-_: xscale is an intel (now marvel) chip |
| 11:00.17 | _-InFeRnO-_ | hm |
| 11:00.18 | LuitvD | and arm is ... universal? |
| 11:00.19 | thresh | ...no? at least here on palm, xscale has arm architecture |
| 11:00.29 | _-InFeRnO-_ | i thought it's a variant of ARM |
| 11:00.32 | pH5 | pxa27x is xscale is an armv5te chip. |
| 11:00.46 | LuitvD | thresh: it's built on, but not completely compatible, IIRC |
| 11:00.56 | _-InFeRnO-_ | wikipedia says it's ARM |
| 11:00.59 | LuitvD | ah |
| 11:01.05 | LuitvD | okay... then I've said nothing... |
| 11:01.41 | _-InFeRnO-_ | np |
| 11:01.47 | _-InFeRnO-_ | i have to gp |
| 11:01.48 | _-InFeRnO-_ | go |
| 11:01.49 | _-InFeRnO-_ | bye |
| 11:01.53 | fluffs | XScale is ARM derivative |
| 11:02.03 | fluffs | i belive they synced at armv5te |
| 11:03.24 | aloril2 | rd_: v2 probably has wifi |
| 11:03.42 | nm | counter? |
| 11:03.42 | aloril | source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; a week, 6 days 00:56:17 (7.039 - 13.039 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, a week, 6 days (29.039 - 44.039 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, a week, 6 days (197.039 - 227.039 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (344) |
| 11:03.50 | rd_ | aloril, kool :) |
| 11:03.51 | LuitvD | lol, the GP2X has an ARM920T too :) |
| 11:04.17 | nm | aloril: which version of mobile can i get on P2 ? |
| 11:04.31 | nm | LuitvD: yes, XScale is trademark by Intel |
| 11:05.03 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-177-196-211.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 11:06.59 | nm | LuitvD: Intel XScale using 80200/IOP310/IOP315 as core , and ARM920T is core of ARM9TDMI |
| 11:07.10 | LuitvD | the next openmoko device should have the OMAPV2350 :P |
| 11:08.55 | nm | LuitvD: hehe cool, but i think price will be increase |
| 11:09.30 | LuitvD | nm: especially because of the patent royalties on HSDPA and EDGE |
| 11:10.00 | LuitvD | the chip itself isn't that expensive... selling the chip is expensive |
| 11:12.57 | *** part/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-241-198-145.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 11:12.57 | nm | LuitvD: yes, of course :-) |
| 11:13.01 | LuitvD | how do I convert an .ext2.gz to an .img file? |
| 11:14.08 | LuitvD | I want openmoko's rootfs to be an .img file... |
| 11:15.46 | aloril2 | nm: Phase-2 is probably a bit modified version of Phase-1 phone (both I guess can be called v1) |
| 11:17.14 | aloril2 | v2 will be completely new device with *much* faster CPU: what it contains will be announced at September like v1 was announced last year |
| 11:18.15 | nm | aloril2: okie thx guy |
| 11:18.25 | ozamosi | rwhitby: btw, the wiki said that 1 out of 1 developer liked the makefile. You can add me to that list ;) (although I haven't finnished compiling yet) |
| 11:19.11 | rwhitby | ozamosi: ok, but I need another testimonial ;-) |
| 11:19.32 | rwhitby | let me know if it gets to the end. |
| 11:19.43 | ozamosi | I will! :) |
| 11:20.17 | rwhitby | my build fell over when building the kernel :-( |
| 11:20.48 | rwhitby | I'm waiting to see if it's just me, or if it's repeatable |
| 11:22.09 | ozamosi | Hm... I think it did that a few times yesterday, but I got past that problem after being more stubborn than the source. |
| 11:22.28 | rwhitby | LaF0rge, koen, mickey|zzZZzz: I have added you all as admins for MokoMakefile, in the remote chance in the future that there is a build problem that needs fixing quickly and I am not available. |
| 11:23.05 | rwhitby | if any of you would prefer to be removed, just let me know. |
| 11:25.50 | *** join/#openmoko torarne (i=torarne@stud268.idi.ntnu.no) |
| 11:26.03 | ozamosi | How long would it take the neo to build openmoko? :) |
| 11:26.27 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 11:27.20 | rwhitby | well, the build tree won't fit on a 2GB uSD card for a start ... |
| 11:27.28 | ozamosi | Right :) |
| 11:28.06 | hrw | rwhitby: really? rm_work helps |
| 11:28.42 | rwhitby | yeah, I wonder what the combined size of mtn database and downloads is though ... |
| 11:31.51 | rwhitby | Hmm - git on Centos 4.4 seems not be compatible with building uboot |
| 11:33.01 | *** join/#openmoko roh (n=roh@yamato.hyte.de) |
| 11:33.04 | roh | hi there |
| 11:33.22 | *** join/#openmoko etheisen (n=etheisen@user-11faosi.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 11:33.42 | *** join/#openmoko Keloran|Work (n=Keloran@82-69-79-6.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 11:38.21 | rwhitby | FYI to anyone trying to build on RHEL or CentOS - the version of Git does not support the '-n' switch which is used by the bitbake git fetcher. |
| 11:38.44 | rwhitby | (so building of uboot will fail on RHEL and CentOS) |
| 11:42.09 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 11:42.24 | *** join/#openmoko sonicated (n=tc@acquiesce.sonicated.com) |
| 11:46.17 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 11:58.44 | LuitvD | rwhitby: is building on RHEL similar to building on FC6? |
| 11:59.33 | LuitvD | you're saying it doesn't work on RHEL, but does it work on FC6? that you know of? |
| 11:59.50 | rwhitby | LuitvD: dunno. depends on the version of git in FC6 - which is likely to be more recent than RHEL or CentOS |
| 12:00.12 | LuitvD | rwhitby: which git version do I need? |
| 12:00.15 | CM | rwhitby: Thanks for a nice "script"! ;) |
| 12:00.29 | rwhitby | CM: haha |
| 12:00.39 | CM | Failed on svn: Unable to find repository location for 'http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches' in revision 11 though |
| 12:00.49 | LuitvD | rwhitby: is git 1.4.4.2 working? |
| 12:00.56 | rwhitby | CM: I got that too. that's where my build fails. |
| 12:01.10 | CM | Ok, good I'm not alone :) |
| 12:01.32 | rwhitby | CM: I believe that the latest bitbake 1.6.x has some SRCDATE and svn fetcher fixes, which may be pulling the wrong version of those patches. |
| 12:01.52 | rwhitby | you need to add a 'rev=XXXX' to the end, and then find the correct value of 'XXXX'. |
| 12:01.54 | CM | rwhitby: zecke is doing 1.6.6 now |
| 12:02.14 | CM | On #oe: 13:01 <zecke> 1.6.6 of BitBake released |
| 12:02.19 | rwhitby | CM: I think it was a correct bug fix which has caused the different behaviour now. |
| 12:02.31 | CM | Ah, ok |
| 12:02.33 | rwhitby | (i.e. I suspect it was broken before, which masked this problem) |
| 12:02.58 | koen | rwhitby: trunk (1.7.x) doesn't have any problems |
| 12:03.28 | rwhitby | koen: is trunk stable enough for MokoMakefile use? if I set a specific rev perhaps? |
| 12:03.42 | koen | it has been stable enough for me |
| 12:04.30 | LuitvD | hmm, can anyone find me/write a n00b guide to building openmoko from svn? :P |
| 12:04.39 | CM | koen: What's the major difference compared to the 1.6.x? |
| 12:04.51 | rwhitby | koen: you haven't attempted reproducing the FIC build, right? you went straight to OE-only builds? |
| 12:04.54 | koen | LuitvD: setup OE, 'bitbake openmoko-image' and you're done |
| 12:05.04 | koen | rwhitby: yes, OE-only builds |
| 12:05.09 | rwhitby | koen: nod |
| 12:05.15 | LuitvD | koen: like 'setup OE' is easy :P |
| 12:05.21 | koen | LuitvD: it is |
| 12:05.31 | LuitvD | koen: okay :P |
| 12:05.36 | LuitvD | I will try... |
| 12:05.43 | rwhitby | koen: what's the svn url for bitbake trunk? I tried svn://svn.berlios.de/bitbake/trunk with no success. |
| 12:05.44 | LuitvD | and I will fail :P |
| 12:06.07 | koen | get bitbake, monotone, openembedded-essential, download snapshot, extract, copy script, start building |
| 12:06.24 | koen | URL: svn://svn.berlios.de/bitbake/trunk/bitbake |
| 12:06.24 | koen | Repository Root: svn://svn.berlios.de/bitbake |
| 12:06.27 | koen | according to svn info |
| 12:06.37 | rwhitby | aha, another bitbake on the end. thx. |
| 12:08.50 | rwhitby | heh - koen, is there a way to turn of the warning and 5 second delay on bitbake trunk execution? |
| 12:08.58 | rwhitby | s/of/off/ |
| 12:08.59 | koen | sure |
| 12:09.33 | koen | rwhitby: http://rafb.net/p/nbN60e91.html |
| 12:09.51 | rwhitby | heh |
| 12:10.07 | rwhitby | I was hoping there was a cmd line option :-) |
| 12:10.50 | zecke | rwhitby: patch -p0 < `curl http://rafb.net/p/nbN60e91.txt` ? |
| 12:10.56 | Stephmw | rwhitby: I'm disappointed - your blog photo is so not like the hw-hacker stereotype ;) |
| 12:11.10 | rwhitby | Stephmw: sorry to disappoint. |
| 12:12.00 | rwhitby | Stephmw: does this help the image: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/gallery/slug-central ? |
| 12:12.46 | rwhitby | Hmm - bitbake 1.7 doesn't parse the FIC OE metadata :-( |
| 12:13.27 | rwhitby | well, to be more accurate, it parses it, but the parse produces a different result which doesn't attempt a build. |
| 12:13.57 | rwhitby | ERROR: No providers of runtime build target libc6-dev (for ['/home/moko/oe/packages/tasks/task-openmoko.bb']) |
| 12:14.33 | Stephmw | rwhitby: a little I guess |
| 12:14.47 | *** join/#openmoko dion (n=dion@xen.inhex.net) |
| 12:15.01 | rwhitby | Stephmw: that photo is also from 10 years ago. |
| 12:15.22 | Stephmw | aha, yes, I can see it's a crop from the wedding pic |
| 12:15.31 | Stephmw | no wonder you spruced up |
| 12:18.46 | rwhitby | ok, so back to bitbake 1.6 and trying to find the correct svn rev for the kernel patches. |
| 12:19.08 | rwhitby | zecke: what version of bitbake would FIC have been using? |
| 12:19.33 | zecke | rwhitby: mickeyl most likely used the 1.6.2 release |
| 12:20.26 | robtaylor | gw280: yo |
| 12:20.27 | zecke | rwhitby: what errors do you see? We messed up the packaging of 1.6.4 (tarball) badly but besides that the svn branch has been used some time |
| 12:21.15 | *** join/#openmoko ryanlerch_home (n=ryanler@d58-104-224-171.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 12:21.20 | rwhitby | zecke: is it true that 1.6.2 would have ignored SRCDATE, but current 1.6 uses it for svn checkouts? |
| 12:21.24 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
| 12:22.08 | rwhitby | zecke: Stephmw pasted the error above |
| 12:22.31 | rwhitby | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:22.42 | rwhitby | revision 11 is not likely to be the correct revision |
| 12:23.07 | rwhitby | and I think it's the SRCDATE in openmoko/trunk/oe/conf/site.conf which is causing that. |
| 12:23.26 | zecke | rwhitby: what bitbake file is used? (got a websvn url for me?) |
| 12:23.48 | rwhitby | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:23.57 | rwhitby | that's the SRC_URI line |
| 12:24.11 | rwhitby | I'm using bitbake 1.6 head |
| 12:24.37 | rwhitby | .bb coming up ... |
| 12:24.59 | Morgaine | Elrond+CM: busy with other things atm, but skimming the channel occasionally when I can. How's it going? |
| 12:25.06 | morricone | rwhitby, I'h getting the same error |
| 12:25.13 | fluffs | right, acks from all my patches |
| 12:25.26 | rwhitby | zecke: http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/oe/packages/linux/linux-gta01_2.6.17.14.bb?rev=1010&view=markup |
| 12:25.50 | koen | 2.6.17? |
| 12:26.20 | hrw | koen: 2.6.17.14 is atleast known as working one. |
| 12:26.37 | koen | hrw: according to LaF0rge 2.6.20 works as well |
| 12:26.48 | rwhitby | yes, that is what FIC builds in the svn rev they recommend in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch |
| 12:26.59 | rwhitby | the goal here is to reproduce the build on that page. |
| 12:27.15 | hrw | koen: then ok. |
| 12:27.16 | koen | hrw: http://svnweb.openmoko.org/?rev=1011&view=rev |
| 12:27.20 | rwhitby | (different goal in #oe :-)) |
| 12:27.20 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 12:27.28 | fluffs | anyone know who is responsible for http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/developer/machines/?action=list&id=1248 |
| 12:28.01 | koen | robtaylor: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch contains the same braindead svn shim |
| 12:28.12 | rwhitby | koen: Yes, I know that they are using 2.6.20 now. |
| 12:28.33 | koen | rwhitby: FIC also recommends replacing your svn binary |
| 12:28.35 | fluffs | yay, got quilt to apply finally |
| 12:28.38 | rwhitby | I was hoping to be able to reproduce the documented build from the FIC wiki before moving svn and OE versions forward. |
| 12:28.48 | koen | rwhitby: so I take those instructions cum grano salis |
| 12:28.54 | rwhitby | koen: red herring, ignored. |
| 12:29.12 | LuitvD | koen: I still don't really get OE :P |
| 12:29.32 | rwhitby | koen: if I wanted to discuss current OE openmoko build, I'd be in #oe :-) |
| 12:30.00 | rwhitby | but it does look like trying latest svn is worth a shot at this point. |
| 12:31.24 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 12:31.48 | rwhitby | unless someone else has actually got the instructions at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch to build a complete image and can see why the MokoMakefile it consistently failing the same way for everyone. |
| 12:32.02 | zecke | rwhitby: SRCDATE is honored, but it was honored in bitbake-1.6.2 as well (at least it looks like this) |
| 12:32.03 | rwhitby | hrw: are those instructions known to be good? |
| 12:32.20 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:32.37 | rwhitby | zecke: ok, thanks. will dig deeper then. |
| 12:33.41 | zecke | rwhitby: feel free to use -vvv to see the executed svn command |
| 12:34.02 | *** join/#openmoko i386 (n=james@210.87.17.18) |
| 12:34.51 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 12:35.15 | rwhitby | ok, that's really weird. |
| 12:35.53 | rwhitby | Stephmw: can you do "source setup-env ; cd build ; bitbake -vvv -b ../oe/packages/linux/linux-gta01_2.6.17.14.bb and see what it does? |
| 12:36.42 | rwhitby | that time for me it checked out rev 1018 (which fails to apply cleanly) |
| 12:37.11 | *** part/#openmoko sonicated (n=tc@acquiesce.sonicated.com) |
| 12:39.10 | rwhitby | Hmm - that svnnow stuff is irritating ... |
| 12:39.29 | zecke | rwhitby: yes it is |
| 12:39.41 | rwhitby | I'm sure there was a good reason for it. |
| 12:39.45 | robtaylor | koen: fixed :) |
| 12:39.56 | koen | I understand with openmoko-core would use that, but not why mere mortals would want it |
| 12:40.30 | koen | s/with/why/ |
| 12:41.11 | *** join/#openmoko zoolooc (n=lucian@p549518C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:45.53 | rwhitby | Has there been any report of anyone reproducing the FIC-documented build? |
| 12:46.54 | LuitvD | what fs type would an initrd.img normally be? |
| 12:47.01 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 12:47.31 | rwhitby | Cause unless anyone can see where the MokoMakefile fails to reproduce the instructions faithfully, I'm doubtful that the documented build is reproducable. I hope someone can see the error I must have made in the Makefile ... |
| 12:51.10 | LuitvD | rwhitby: where can I view that makefile? :P |
| 12:51.25 | rwhitby | LuitvD: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile |
| 12:52.31 | rwhitby | zecke: bitbake 1.6.7 doesn't print out the svn command when invoked with -v -v -v |
| 12:53.28 | LuitvD | rwhitby: thanks, I'll take a look ... (good thing the OE instructions are linked to :) ) |
| 12:53.30 | zecke | rwhitby: bad tool that is, try -DDD instead |
| 12:54.32 | rwhitby | aha, that's why it got something the second time, cause it just does an svn update. Cleaning downloads/svn and trying again |
| 12:56.00 | rwhitby | zecke: DEBUG: Running /usr/bin/env svn co -r {20060814} http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches patches |
| 12:56.19 | rwhitby | which results in svn: Unable to find repository location for 'http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches' in revision 11 |
| 12:56.28 | roh | wtf... does the build-env from openmoko really takes 7gb?? |
| 12:59.36 | *** join/#openmoko veroli (n=oliver@BSN-95-206-165.dsl.siol.net) |
| 13:00.59 | LuitvD | rwhitby: that makefile does do a lot i don't understand :P |
| 13:01.26 | LuitvD | (and it's only downloading from the svn as of now :P |
| 13:01.41 | koen | rwhitby: that means that dir/repo didn't exist at 20060814 |
| 13:01.51 | koen | rwhitby: the error message is a bit misleading |
| 13:02.25 | rwhitby | koen: yeah, which is what led me down the path of suspecting SRCDATE was ignored in earlier 1.6.x bitbake versions, but apparently now. |
| 13:02.28 | rwhitby | s/now/not/ |
| 13:02.29 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 13:03.05 | rwhitby | ok, the patches from svn rev 1004 (the documented good version) do not apply cleanly. |
| 13:04.54 | rwhitby | asoc.patch fails to apply |
| 13:05.05 | koen | s/documented good/documented/ |
| 13:05.28 | kimuSan^ | can the openmoko software be installed on any other devices than the neo= |
| 13:05.30 | kimuSan^ | ? |
| 13:05.37 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (n=heinold@leningrad.mi.fu-berlin.de) |
| 13:05.43 | kimuSan^ | I read somewhere that it could run on ipaQ |
| 13:05.50 | kimuSan^ | but which models? |
| 13:06.03 | pH5 | kimuSan^: ipaq hx4700, htc magician and htc universal already ran parts of it. |
| 13:06.08 | rwhitby | koen: perhaps :-) |
| 13:07.03 | kimuSan^ | pH5: neat. |
| 13:07.19 | kimuSan^ | then I just need to get digging on my HTC trinity :-) |
| 13:09.33 | rwhitby | koen: one first assumes that it's either a documentation error or an error in my Makefile. |
| 13:09.42 | *** join/#openmoko bahadunn (n=bahadunn@65.75.106.63) |
| 13:10.14 | bahadunn | openmoko running on the pc yet? |
| 13:10.22 | koen | rwhitby: openmoko-dates didn't build because SRCDATE_eds-dbus was set too early |
| 13:10.39 | koen | rwhitby: which means some developers have local diffs we don't know about |
| 13:10.58 | rwhitby | ooh - there is branches/src/target/kernel/patches/2.6.17.4 created in rev 1003 .. |
| 13:11.23 | LuitvD | rwhitby: does that makefile of yours always create 300+ MB of data? :P |
| 13:11.43 | rwhitby | LuitvD: it's likely to create up to 7GB. |
| 13:11.54 | LuitvD | rwhitby: lol, nice |
| 13:12.12 | rwhitby | The makefile creates only a few hundred bytes. It's the other stuff which creates all the data ... |
| 13:12.30 | LuitvD | rwhitby: and the output is a 64MB max rootfs image? |
| 13:13.06 | rwhitby | LuitvD: please read up on OE - I just provide a Makefile wrapper. |
| 13:13.15 | LuitvD | :P |
| 13:13.37 | hrw | I remember build with OE which took ~20GB |
| 13:13.58 | LuitvD | rwhitby: most of that is abracadabra to me |
| 13:14.43 | rwhitby | LuitvD: treat it like a loaded weapon then ... |
| 13:14.50 | koen | http://www.openembedded.org/~koen/neo1973/ |
| 13:15.37 | LuitvD | rwhitby: you have no idea of how I treat loaded weapons, do you :P |
| 13:15.55 | Stephmw | koen: nice.. now for the hardware :) |
| 13:16.06 | rwhitby | koen: does it boot ;-) |
| 13:16.10 | hrw | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:16.19 | koen | apparently not |
| 13:18.08 | LuitvD | koen: qemu can't boot that kernel :P |
| 13:18.27 | LuitvD | koen: but qemu can't boot any other test build kernel either... :P |
| 13:20.37 | hrw | LuitvD: build qemux86 machine |
| 13:20.49 | LuitvD | hrw: how? |
| 13:21.14 | woglinde | hi hrw |
| 13:22.03 | koen | LuitvD: which qemu? |
| 13:22.13 | koen | the qemu from OE should be able to boot it |
| 13:22.25 | LuitvD | err... trying to run it with qemu-system-arm |
| 13:22.26 | rwhitby | DEBUG: Running /usr/bin/env svn co -r 1003 http://svn.openmoko.org/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.17.14/patches patches |
| 13:22.26 | koen | or rather, attempt to boot it |
| 13:22.37 | rwhitby | ok, that set of patches applies. |
| 13:22.42 | SpeedEvil | Someone really needs to do a chroot environment for idiots :) |
| 13:22.46 | LuitvD | koen: qemu from OE? |
| 13:22.50 | LuitvD | I don't get it... |
| 13:23.07 | koen | LuitvD: the qemu OE builds, with all sorts of neat patches |
| 13:23.13 | rwhitby | Stephmw: change the SRC_URI to svn://svn.openmoko.org/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.17.14;module=patches;proto=http;rev=1003 |
| 13:23.22 | LuitvD | koen: okay, I'll take a look |
| 13:23.37 | bahadunn | does this work for anyone? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC |
| 13:24.08 | rwhitby | morricone: you too, in openmoko/trunk/oe/packages/linux/linux-gta01_2.6.17.14.bb |
| 13:27.30 | xkr47 | there was a mention on some wiki page that the JTAG port is a last resort, but if I don't have the hackers lunchbox, I guess I'm pretty screwed :P |
| 13:27.50 | xkr47 | ?--) |
| 13:28.36 | *** part/#openmoko bahadunn (n=bahadunn@65.75.106.63) |
| 13:28.50 | rwhitby | Stephmw, morricone: or run "make update-makefile ; make setup" and build the kernel again - it should work then. |
| 13:28.57 | koen | xkr47: you can only brick it if you destroy uboot |
| 13:28.59 | *** join/#openmoko i386 (n=james@210.87.17.18) |
| 13:29.47 | xkr47 | koen, can it be destroyed by writing uboot config from inside uboot (even if uboot were bug-free) ? |
| 13:30.09 | xkr47 | koen, (I read you can do like "save ...." on the uboot command line to save the current options) |
| 13:30.15 | koen | xkr47: don't know, never worked with uboot |
| 13:30.27 | rwhitby | koen: sounds like OpenMoko needs the five rules ... |
| 13:30.33 | Elrond | Morgaine - I'm fine. Already found possible bugs in the OM-kernel. ;) (but no answers on the list yet....) |
| 13:30.35 | xkr47 | rwhitby, ?-) |
| 13:31.07 | xkr47 | i.e. "you need uboot x.y to be able to run the latest kernel" |
| 13:31.08 | koen | "Friends don't let friends flash custom bootloaders without confirmed JTAG access." |
| 13:31.23 | xkr47 | koen, ok :) |
| 13:31.35 | rwhitby | http://www.nslu2-linux.org/ - rules # 6 and 7. Also http://www.openembedded.org/ rules # 4 and 5 I think. |
| 13:32.05 | rwhitby | oh, not openembedded.org, it's http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/ |
| 13:32.50 | Elrond | counter |
| 13:32.50 | aloril | P0: a week, 5 days 22:27:09 (6.936 - 12.936 days); P1: 28.936 - 43.936; P2: 196.936 - 226.936 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (345) |
| 13:32.51 | koen | "if it isn't in the scm, it doesn't exist" |
| 13:33.08 | rwhitby | "if it doesn't build automatically, it doesn't get into the feeds" |
| 13:33.28 | rwhitby | rules to live by .... |
| 13:34.22 | Elrond | If it doesn't survive a review, don't flash it ;) |
| 13:34.55 | rwhitby | So should messages about MokoMakefile updates go to openmoko-devel@, or distro-devel@? |
| 13:35.34 | rwhitby | I guess eventually people will be able to subscribe to mokomakefile-commits@lists.projects.openmoko.org |
| 13:35.37 | koen | I'd guess om-devel |
| 13:35.51 | rwhitby | and not clutter the main lists |
| 13:40.58 | *** join/#openmoko LoDown (n=LoDown@dsl093-230-107.lou1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 13:41.10 | *** join/#openmoko cprf_ (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 13:42.28 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=LuitvD@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 13:42.37 | LuitvD | wow, my kernel just spinlocked |
| 13:42.50 | *** join/#openmoko soulrider (n=mauro@r201-217-132-235.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 13:42.52 | LuitvD | kernel: BUG: spinlock lockup on CPU#0, ld/1806, ffff810001d65c90 (Tainted: P ) |
| 13:43.16 | *** part/#openmoko soulrider (n=mauro@r201-217-132-235.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 13:43.47 | rwhitby | LuitvD: is that an openmoko kernel? |
| 13:44.21 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 13:44.46 | LuitvD | rwhitby: no, my desktop kernel... during that makefile :P |
| 13:44.58 | LuitvD | (got nothing to do with that makefile I guess...) |
| 13:45.53 | rwhitby | LuitvD: might be better off reporting it in a different channel then ... |
| 13:46.15 | dottedmag | rwhitby: useless. it's tainted kernel. kernel devs will only green ;) |
| 13:46.24 | LuitvD | rwhitby: might be better of reinstalling my fedora :P |
| 13:46.26 | rwhitby | dottedmag: very true :-) |
| 13:46.39 | LuitvD | dottedmag: tainted kernel? |
| 13:46.41 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 13:47.00 | hrw | rwhitby: ;) |
| 13:47.14 | rwhitby | only took us two years, but we got there ... |
| 13:47.45 | hrw | cu |
| 13:47.46 | parag0n | i'm thinking of buying an nslu2 |
| 13:47.56 | rwhitby | gta01-kernel is now happily building with the latest MokoMakefile setup |
| 13:48.06 | parag0n | to make a wireless bridge + bluetooth access point |
| 13:48.38 | rwhitby | parag0n: wireless isn't that stable yet, but #nslu2-linux would be the channel to chat about that. Bluetooth is fine. |
| 13:49.10 | parag0n | i think i'd only be using the wireless as a client |
| 13:49.47 | parag0n | wireless connecting to router, bridging to ethernet for my xbox, and bluetooth for the neo |
| 13:50.18 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 13:50.43 | rwhitby | Stephmw, morricone: is yours building again now? |
| 13:52.37 | *** join/#openmoko dottedma1 (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 13:52.50 | dottedmag | LuitvD: kernel: BUG: spinlock lockup on CPU#0, ld/1806, ffff810001d65c90 (Tainted: P ) <- see? |
| 13:52.51 | dottedmag | LuitvD: You've loaded some proprietary driver |
| 13:52.51 | dottedmag | s/driver/module/ |
| 13:54.03 | LuitvD | dottedma1: does the nvidia driver count as proprietary? |
| 13:54.11 | *** join/#openmoko yacc (n=andreas@h1634.serverkompetenz.net) |
| 13:54.23 | dottedma1 | LuitvD: sure |
| 13:54.38 | LuitvD | dottedmag: okay, then that's the problem here :P |
| 13:55.28 | rwhitby | Hmm: WARNING: Couldn't open directory /home/moko/build/tmp/work/fic-gta01-linux/gta01-kernel-2.6-moko7-r1/image/lib/modules/2.6.18-3-686: No such file or directory |
| 13:55.40 | dottedmag | LuitvD: It's just FYI: kernel devs don't even look at bugreports when kernel is tainted. |
| 13:55.58 | LuitvD | :P |
| 13:56.15 | rwhitby | Night all. |
| 13:56.46 | *** join/#openmoko apardo (n=apardo@87.217.145.227) |
| 13:57.13 | empty_mind | rwhitby, catch you in the morning. I have started build with moko makefile too |
| 13:57.19 | rwhitby | (If anyone else has problems with MokoMakefile, just ping me here and I'll see it in about 7 or 8 hours time.) |
| 13:58.06 | empty_mind | rwhitby, one question if you are around |
| 13:58.17 | empty_mind | rwhitby, how long the build takes |
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| 13:59.48 | *** join/#openmoko Agrajag-_ (n=filip@c211-30-185-177.artrmn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 13:59.50 | *** join/#openmoko __doc__ (n=doesnt@62-2-90-134.static.cablecom.ch) |
| 13:59.52 | __doc__ | hi |
| 14:00.16 | __doc__ | openmoko looks sexy, is it completely opensource? |
| 14:00.57 | mjr | not quite |
| 14:01.15 | mjr | the GSM stack is on a proprietary chip (basically a GSM modem from the Linux system's standpoint) |
| 14:01.23 | mjr | on the Linux system, there is _one_ proprietary part |
| 14:01.40 | mjr | that's the AGPS chip provider's agps positioning daemon |
| 14:02.37 | __doc__ | so linux as usual then :) |
| 14:02.44 | __doc__ | open source with proprietary drivers |
| 14:02.56 | mjr | (unsurprisingly, there's been a lot of talk already about reverse-engineering the agps chip protocol and offering a free replacement) |
| 14:03.20 | __doc__ | the gsm stack would be more interesting as opensource :) |
| 14:03.21 | woglinde | doc only one |
| 14:03.22 | mjr | yes, a kind of user-space driver |
| 14:03.42 | mjr | the kernel is free of proprietary bits at least |
| 14:03.53 | zecke | __doc__: time to look into SDR then? |
| 14:04.26 | __doc__ | right, so maybe that's a stupid question. I live in europe, will I be able to get hold of one of the openmoko babies and put my sim in it and run it with my favorite operator? |
| 14:04.59 | mjr | yes |
| 14:05.00 | SpeedEvil | The GPS daemon pretty much does all you want it to do initially. It may be possible to boost positioning accuracy from 2m or so to .5m or so with Diffferential GPS over the internet, which the agpsd daemon probably does not support. This requires an internet connection though. |
| 14:05.13 | __doc__ | mjr: kewl |
| 14:05.24 | __doc__ | mjr: what would broadly be the price range of openmoko? |
| 14:05.29 | SpeedEvil | $350 |
| 14:05.34 | SpeedEvil | for the first batch. |
| 14:05.35 | mjr | broadly, it's been said to sell for $350 |
| 14:05.36 | *** join/#openmoko koen_ (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 14:05.43 | SpeedEvil | The release price has not been stated AIUI. |
| 14:05.56 | SpeedEvil | It'll depend on supply/demand at the time I suppose. |
| 14:06.09 | mjr | (and a nitpick: the operating system is OpenMoko, the first phase phone itself is Neo1973 :) |
| 14:06.17 | *** join/#openmoko apardo_ (n=apardo@87.217.144.200) |
| 14:06.37 | SpeedEvil | _hopefully_ even if FIC decides open source is evil, it doesn't matter so much. |
| 14:06.39 | mjr | though I sometimes catch myself using (open)moko for the phone itself too |
| 14:07.06 | SpeedEvil | As by then other makers may have come along, or some of the phone-hacking projects may have yielded useful hardware. |
| 14:07.41 | __doc__ | uhm, the GUI is gnome, i.e. qt right? |
| 14:08.17 | koen_ | __doc__: no |
| 14:08.57 | __doc__ | gtk then? |
| 14:09.47 | woglinde | hail mickeyl |
| 14:10.16 | __doc__ | also, is python running on openmoko? |
| 14:10.19 | __doc__ | :D |
| 14:10.28 | mjr | __doc__, GUI is gtk plus some custom libraries (gnome is on top of gtk) |
| 14:10.44 | __doc__ | oki |
| 14:10.57 | mickeyl | cheers |
| 14:11.13 | mjr | it's a Linux distro. You can run Python on it. A different question is if things like that will be installed by default. |
| 14:11.30 | woglinde | doc bescause of python is in openembedded python will be run on the neo |
| 14:11.43 | SpeedEvil | We really want to keep the base system in 64M. |
| 14:11.48 | mjr | (Which I haven't had time to find out yet, if it's already public on the web or repos.) |
| 14:11.48 | __doc__ | I see |
| 14:11.52 | SpeedEvil | As otherwise, we can't change the SD card. |
| 14:11.55 | SpeedEvil | Which is bad. |
| 14:12.01 | mjr | SpeedEvil, yeah |
| 14:12.26 | SpeedEvil | 64M is compressed, but still, you can't be putting too many large apps like python and perl on there. |
| 14:12.34 | woglinde | hm 1 gb sdmicro card ist now priced at 12 euros |
| 14:12.40 | __doc__ | ya |
| 14:12.50 | *** join/#openmoko vetetix (n=vetetix@248.27-218-195.adsl.internet.lu) |
| 14:12.51 | SpeedEvil | Yes. However, you can't change the card if you put the OS on there. |
| 14:12.52 | mjr | *nod*, I'm completely prepared to install python myself on my eventual 2 gig microsd ;) |
| 14:12.54 | LuitvD | woglinde: I can get them as low as 8 euro's |
| 14:12.55 | __doc__ | hm is there a package manager included on that linux? |
| 14:13.05 | woglinde | doc yes |
| 14:13.09 | __doc__ | apt? |
| 14:13.10 | SpeedEvil | LuitvD: It's a microSD, not a SD. |
| 14:13.24 | SpeedEvil | LuitvD: substantially more expensive. |
| 14:13.27 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: I know |
| 14:13.33 | zecke | hopefully we will kick out ipkg and use dpkg |
| 14:13.35 | LuitvD | still 8 euros |
| 14:13.38 | __doc__ | well, as long as you can install applications it's no problem |
| 14:13.39 | woglinde | speedevil if you qunatities at 20k or so the price maybe drop at euros |
| 14:13.42 | woglinde | ups 5 |
| 14:13.47 | woglinde | buy |
| 14:14.07 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 14:14.27 | __doc__ | right, so another question is, can you sell closed source applications for that thing? :) |
| 14:14.38 | woglinde | doc why not? |
| 14:14.53 | zecke | __doc__: why would one do that? |
| 14:15.11 | woglinde | zecke to make money? |
| 14:15.19 | __doc__ | zecke: retarded story, don't ask please :/ |
| 14:15.27 | woglinde | zecke sell games? |
| 14:15.28 | SpeedEvil | I want tomtom on it. |
| 14:15.37 | SpeedEvil | Until opensource mapping comes along. |
| 14:16.12 | woglinde | speedevil opensource mapping will not be happen I guess |
| 14:16.16 | __doc__ | zecke: I work for a company that produces mobile phone DRM systems (yeah the big evil). To keep up any illusion of unbreakability the secret souce needs to be as obscure as possible. I.e. closed source. |
| 14:16.22 | mjr | Yes well. I'd like for much of the openmoko apps be free, and for the OS or openmoko pages to provide easy ways to donate to creators of spiffy apps via on-line payment services. But that's me. |
| 14:16.27 | tigert | woglinde: www.openstreetmap.org |
| 14:16.36 | mjr | you _can_ sell proprietary apps for the moko, though, if you wish |
| 14:16.37 | tigert | its a long shot, but there are pretty good maps of some parts of the world |
| 14:16.50 | tigert | heya mjr :) |
| 14:17.03 | mjr | yo |
| 14:17.14 | SpeedEvil | tigert: comparatively little of the world has vector maps, suitable for routing. |
| 14:17.22 | koen_ | tigert: I couldn't figure out how to add roads to OSM using the editor |
| 14:17.29 | SpeedEvil | Even smaller areas have these reasonably updated. |
| 14:17.31 | koen_ | tigert: all I succeeded in was adding lines |
| 14:17.56 | SpeedEvil | And practically none have all points of interest like many commercial maps. |
| 14:18.14 | SpeedEvil | The mapping app is near trivial. |
| 14:18.21 | SpeedEvil | It's the map that's hard. |
| 14:18.22 | mjr | one of the app ideas has been to make it easy for the moko to collect position info on where the user goes, and then the user could label the data and send to OSM. That would be nice, not my piece of cake though |
| 14:18.25 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 14:18.49 | __doc__ | mjr: it's my discovery that allowing closed source on a platform is about the only way for some companies to give something to opensource at all, because otherwise they just screw it and get rid of the nagging voice (me usually) to put some value back. |
| 14:18.51 | mjr | of course, you'd need to roam systematically around to collect any kind of full maps... |
| 14:19.00 | SpeedEvil | It's nice, yes. It's going to take a hell of a long time to make maps though that way. |
| 14:19.10 | mjr | SpeedEvil, yeah. |
| 14:20.17 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
| 14:20.27 | mjr | doc, yes, and you can. I think one of the points about choosing gtk+ was that it's lgpl'd and you can do proprietary stuff on it if you wish |
| 14:21.18 | LuitvD | time for a drink :( |
| 14:21.21 | kimuSan^ | gtk+ is also just 100times nicer to work with |
| 14:21.31 | LuitvD | the solder vapors are making me dizzy |
| 14:22.32 | SpeedEvil | Solder does not vapourise much if at all at usual temps - it's the flux. |
| 14:22.59 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: it's the rosin and the lead that's vaporising |
| 14:23.15 | SpeedEvil | Look up leads vapour pressure at 200C. It's next to negligable. |
| 14:23.23 | *** join/#openmoko PsychoChicken (n=karypid@80-254-67-217.dynamic.monzoon.net) |
| 14:23.34 | koen_ | mickeyl: could you merge linux-gta01_2.6.20.bb from OE to openmoko svn? |
| 14:23.35 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: well, then it's just the rosin :P |
| 14:23.45 | SpeedEvil | Rosin is nasty stuff in bulk. |
| 14:23.52 | LuitvD | yeah |
| 14:24.06 | LuitvD | and I've got solder with a little bit too much rosin, IMHO |
| 14:24.07 | LuitvD | :( |
| 14:24.13 | LuitvD | anyways, I'm off |
| 14:24.25 | mickeyl | koen_: sure |
| 14:25.26 | ozamosi | Did rwhitby make mokomake work when building the kernel? |
| 14:26.00 | __doc__ | well, thanks for all the answers. It's been very informative. I'll probably an openmoko running device once one gets out. |
| 14:26.10 | __doc__ | +get |
| 14:28.43 | *** join/#openmoko newmedian (n=newmedia@TOROON63-1168100004.sdsl.bell.ca) |
| 14:33.31 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
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| 14:53.13 | newmedian | Are phones like the Nokia E61 too "closed" to run OpenMoko (at some point)? I was trying to find a 'targeted phones' page on the Wiki, but didn't spot one. |
| 14:54.26 | mickeyl | you need at least a Linux kernel w/ full hardware support |
| 14:54.40 | mickeyl | that rules out most commercially available phones |
| 14:54.59 | newmedian | Thanks mickeyl |
| 14:55.29 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet (n=sixfeet@p5484D683.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:56.09 | sixfeet | moin |
| 14:56.51 | *** join/#openmoko kc_12645 (i=7aa7afb8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-79c7be347715ddb9) |
| 14:59.28 | newmedian | I'm tempted to add information about Canada to the Shipping_Notes section of the Wiki, however the opening paragraph states 'We are currently able to ship direct to the countries listed below' implying that someone is officially listing only countries that the Neo is being shipped to. |
| 14:59.48 | LuitvD | :P |
| 15:00.00 | noidd | newm: add the info if you have it |
| 15:00.02 | newmedian | Which makes me hesitant to add a country, because it might not actually be one that is being shipped direct to. |
| 15:00.03 | LuitvD | newmedian: just add your info |
| 15:00.05 | roh | hm.. i wonder how far the gtk-directfb effort is really |
| 15:00.06 | noidd | thats only countries which people have info for |
| 15:00.10 | noidd | if you have info, add it. |
| 15:00.10 | newmedian | roger roger. |
| 15:00.14 | LuitvD | lol |
| 15:00.26 | LuitvD | who's roger? ;) |
| 15:00.38 | Stephmw | dodger usually |
| 15:01.02 | newmedian | sorry, too much rogering ;) |
| 15:01.08 | LuitvD | roger the bullet dodger? |
| 15:01.12 | Stephmw | you got rogered? |
| 15:01.12 | *** join/#openmoko mccarthy (n=mccarthy@granular.che.pitt.edu) |
| 15:01.40 | newmedian | Isn't that a requirement being a developer? |
| 15:02.00 | newmedian | (Shatner voice: why does nobody tell me these things) |
| 15:02.01 | LuitvD | Stephmw: are you saying you aren't rogered? |
| 15:02.30 | zecke | roh: you worked for convergence? |
| 15:02.58 | roh | zecke yep.. but not that long as others |
| 15:03.36 | zecke | roh: I think you know more than us about Gtk on DirectFB. The new debian installer will use gtk on directfb, so it must work to some degree |
| 15:04.46 | roh | zecke thats what i was thinking.. also the gtk-convert_float_to_int_math patch ideas made me remember sth. |
| 15:04.52 | PsychoChicken | I see there's no Wi-Fi in the phone (or have I missed it?). I was hoping you could have something like that. Are there any plans to add WLAN in the future? |
| 15:04.53 | aloril | When version 1 was designed there was no sufficiently low-power WiFi chip available which has an open driver. You can attach (battery) powered USB hub to Neo1973 and then use supported WiFi USB stick. For more information see http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/InternetAccess |
| 15:05.28 | LuitvD | nice script aloril :) it works |
| 15:05.39 | PasqualeBF_ | heh |
| 15:06.02 | *** join/#openmoko Mr_Lurrrrr (n=4ng3l@200.110.71.22) |
| 15:06.04 | mickeyl | the future is wide open. specs for v2 are not finalized |
| 15:06.06 | LuitvD | plans + wifi + future = run script :) |
| 15:06.08 | roh | i'm currently at moving some .. eh compressed media content out of the way to have diskspace for a openmoko build ;) |
| 15:06.10 | PsychoChicken | aloril2: thanks for the link |
| 15:06.28 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@fsf/member/bkuhn/bkuhn) |
| 15:06.38 | xkr47 | mickeyl, is there expected to be new revisions of the hardware for sale every month |
| 15:06.47 | PasqualeBF_ | mickeyl: releast 2 -- that is, the march release? |
| 15:07.07 | LuitvD | rwhitby: any estimates of how long your script could run? |
| 15:07.18 | xkr47 | mickeyl, i.e. could it be worth waiting a month or so to get yet-a-bit-better hardware? |
| 15:07.20 | mickeyl | xkr47: every month? hell that would be costly |
| 15:07.26 | LuitvD | rwhitby: it's eating one of my cores for quite a while now |
| 15:07.35 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 15:07.48 | xkr47 | mickeyl, i.e. is there expected to be any hardware releases between phase 1 and phase 2 ? |
| 15:07.54 | *** join/#openmoko apardo_ (n=apardo@87.217.145.146) |
| 15:08.04 | Elrond | xkr47 - I'd guess not. |
| 15:08.05 | xkr47 | mickeyl, sorry for asking stupid questions, I'm not aware of your plans nor cost :P |
| 15:08.08 | mickeyl | xkr47: if there is going to be a major hardware change, then it'll be right before phase 2. doesn't make sense to hold off phase 1 buying |
| 15:08.24 | xkr47 | mickeyl, thank you for your time! I'm happy :) |
| 15:08.56 | Elrond | mickeyl - Any guess, why nobody answers my mail on om-kernel? Is it that stupid? |
| 15:09.01 | mickeyl | we are toying with many ideas, but as Lefty indicated in a mail, every minor hardware change is _incredibly_ costly |
| 15:09.23 | mickeyl | Elrond: I'm afraid the only one who can answer questions on om-kernel is LaF0rge and he is _really_ busy, so please be patient |
| 15:09.24 | PasqualeBF_ | wifi is soooo very ideal. |
| 15:09.48 | *** join/#openmoko jh|work (n=jason@ip70-176-147-193.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 15:09.52 | CM | LuitvD: The makefile has been running for a few hours for me now, on an amd64 3000+ |
| 15:09.54 | zecke | roh: e.g. Access claimed that they tested both directFB and tinyX and found tinyX to perform much better. They did not publish any numbers and I wonder how this relates to http://mail.directfb.org/pipermail/directfb-dev/2006-December/002538.html |
| 15:10.22 | mickeyl | directFB would have had major speed increases for giving up liberty to run every-other-X apps |
| 15:10.24 | Elrond | mickeyl - So I should just assume, that LaF0rge is plain busy and be patient for a week or so? |
| 15:10.30 | mickeyl | s/had/to have/ |
| 15:10.39 | mickeyl | Elrond: yes |
| 15:10.41 | LuitvD | CM: maybe I'll beat you at that... running on one of the cores of my X2 4200+ |
| 15:10.42 | zecke | mickeyl: you can run X on directFB :) |
| 15:10.55 | mickeyl | zecke: oh yes, please. we need more layer of indirection heh |
| 15:10.55 | noidd | mickeyl; any update on p0 dispatch? are we still looking at 28th ish? |
| 15:10.56 | LuitvD | :) |
| 15:10.59 | mickeyl | noidd: no idea |
| 15:11.01 | Elrond | mickeyl - Thanks for the notice. :) |
| 15:11.24 | zecke | mickeyl: you can run X on directFB through a vpn? |
| 15:11.29 | mickeyl | :D |
| 15:12.18 | noidd | mickeyl: I bet a weight has come off your shoulders now that the source is released tho. |
| 15:12.40 | LuitvD | @makefile process: AAAAH, i don't need all those locales :P |
| 15:12.52 | noidd | mickeyl: no longer that looming deadline of getting as much out there before the public swarm |
| 15:13.07 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 15:13.12 | mickeyl | noidd: a bit, yeah. i was a bit afraid of people starting to be very disappointed because of our early stage. but all in all it looks like folks are understanding the iterative process and are patient. which is really a relief |
| 15:13.14 | zecke | http://www.openembedded.org/user-manual&dpage=commonuse_new_package like this? help us to write it? |
| 15:13.19 | zecke | sorry |
| 15:13.37 | noidd | mickeyl: Honestly, you've done far more than I thought ya'll would. |
| 15:13.51 | noidd | i'm ammazed you got so far with such a small team. Kudos. |
| 15:14.09 | mickeyl | thanks. you ain't see nothing yet ;) |
| 15:14.10 | PasqualeBF_ | yes, kudos. |
| 15:14.13 | noidd | and the documentation and esp the UI look + feel stuff will help a LOT in keeping things in a straight line. |
| 15:14.48 | noidd | just give me a fingerprint scanner and a .45 cal derringer in v2 and i'll be happy :-D |
| 15:15.06 | noidd | incorrect fingerprint *BANG* |
| 15:15.11 | PasqualeBF_ | 45, how about a 380 ? |
| 15:15.21 | Elrond | "derringer"? |
| 15:15.27 | *** join/#openmoko bipolar (n=bflong@146.145.26.91) |
| 15:15.29 | mickeyl | noidd: v2 will blow us all awa |
| 15:15.30 | mickeyl | y |
| 15:15.43 | mickeyl | and by the time v2 is there, we will have a nice set of integrated apps |
| 15:15.45 | noidd | I will have the internal pistol then. Excellent! |
| 15:15.50 | mickeyl | heh |
| 15:16.18 | empty_mind | hey mickeyl |
| 15:16.31 | mickeyl | yo |
| 15:16.34 | PsychoChicken | I'm having trouble compiling libmokoui using qmake |
| 15:16.46 | PsychoChicken | it doesn't seem to be able to find gtk2 |
| 15:16.48 | LuitvD | mickeyl: aw please, don't tease us with v2 before the p1 devices are brought out :P |
| 15:16.59 | mickeyl | LuitvD: righto. |
| 15:17.03 | LuitvD | :P |
| 15:17.03 | mickeyl | PsychoChicken: please use autoconf. |
| 15:17.07 | PsychoChicken | unfortunately, build system is qmake (don't use it myself) |
| 15:17.08 | mickeyl | qmake is only for me, really |
| 15:17.20 | PsychoChicken | oh |
| 15:17.22 | mickeyl | the honest story is... |
| 15:17.30 | mickeyl | i knew nothing about autotools before starting this project |
| 15:17.36 | mickeyl | i'm a qmake weeny |
| 15:17.41 | PsychoChicken | :-) |
| 15:17.45 | mickeyl | so i added a qmake build infrastructure |
| 15:17.48 | noidd | you say that like its a bad thing |
| 15:17.55 | noidd | autotools has a reputation of being horrific |
| 15:18.01 | mickeyl | and just before we started with external people, i added autotools support to all packages |
| 15:18.05 | PsychoChicken | I saw that qmake is supposed to locate libs via pkgconfig |
| 15:18.20 | mickeyl | yeah, qmake 4 can do that |
| 15:18.33 | PsychoChicken | pkg-config --cflags gtk+-2.0 |
| 15:18.36 | mickeyl | see my qmake devel script |
| 15:18.38 | PsychoChicken | works on my system |
| 15:18.41 | mickeyl | in devel/qmake/* |
| 15:18.52 | mickeyl | did you set $OMDIR ? |
| 15:18.55 | PsychoChicken | ant there's a "PKGCONFIG += gtk+-2.0 libmb" in the pro file |
| 15:18.59 | PsychoChicken | yeah |
| 15:19.04 | mickeyl | try to run qmake -v -v |
| 15:19.06 | mickeyl | or -d -d ? |
| 15:19.09 | PsychoChicken | ok |
| 15:19.12 | mickeyl | it works here |
| 15:19.13 | Elrond | Has the wiki been updated to note, that autoconf is the recommended way? |
| 15:19.16 | mickeyl | otherwise i wouldn't have commited |
| 15:19.18 | PsychoChicken | no |
| 15:19.27 | PsychoChicken | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:19.32 | PsychoChicken | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC#.3D_In_Xoo |
| 15:19.32 | mickeyl | i think there is a note there |
| 15:19.47 | PsychoChicken | well, it reads: NOTE: qmake is Mickey's preferred build tool, you can use autotools as well... |
| 15:19.53 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 15:19.56 | mickeyl | guess i need to rephrase |
| 15:20.30 | mickeyl | better now? |
| 15:20.38 | mickeyl | NOTE: qmake is Mickey's preferred build tool, it probably doesn't work if you're not him. Please use autotools... |
| 15:20.55 | PasqualeBF_ | heh |
| 15:21.17 | PsychoChicken | I'll work on that myself if I manage to compile it. so, I should rather run autogen.sh in each directory then? |
| 15:21.22 | noidd | hah nice |
| 15:21.36 | mickeyl | exactly. compile openmoko-libs, then gsmd, then the individual apps |
| 15:21.43 | PsychoChicken | doing so.. |
| 15:22.01 | mickeyl | i will expand this wiki page but right now there's more important stuff to do ... |
| 15:22.06 | PsychoChicken | libs is done |
| 15:24.43 | hrw | speaking about autotools... |
| 15:24.44 | hrw | catholic god himself invented autotools just for amusement |
| 15:24.44 | hrw | first there was the great flood, then the plague, now autotools |
| 15:25.20 | koen_ | "autotools, the 8th plague of the ancient egyptians" |
| 15:25.36 | SuN | I'm not sure if we're going to survive this one, though! :/ |
| 15:29.07 | koen | mickeyl: did you get the mail on GSoC2007? |
| 15:29.11 | Stephmw | LuitvD: I cannot confirm nor deny the rogering, rogered, non-rogering, non-rogered action you have described |
| 15:29.53 | LuitvD | Stephmw: I can't follow what you're saying :P |
| 15:31.10 | *** join/#openmoko PhilKC (i=greece@freenode/staff/about.linux.philkc) |
| 15:31.30 | mickeyl | koen: i got it. I really hesitate to do anything about it because of the organizational overhead though. |
| 15:31.39 | mickeyl | my March is completely overbooked |
| 15:31.43 | mickeyl | with two projects |
| 15:31.51 | koen | mickeyl: that's what I feared |
| 15:31.59 | mickeyl | April i start with the book contract |
| 15:32.03 | mickeyl | + openmoko |
| 15:32.03 | koen | mickeyl: I'm having a bit of the same troubles |
| 15:32.15 | koen | uni + conferences is getting awfully busy |
| 15:32.24 | mickeyl | let's talk @ fosdem with some guys |
| 15:32.48 | mickeyl | btw. fosdem is starting to be an appointment nightmare |
| 15:32.58 | mickeyl | i alread have more guys i want to meet than hours per day |
| 15:33.00 | mickeyl | :/ |
| 15:33.32 | LuitvD | mickeyl: who doesn't :P |
| 15:33.37 | zecke | more space in the bed for me |
| 15:33.56 | mickeyl | zecke: in my new office room i will put a guest bed in |
| 15:33.59 | mickeyl | for you :) |
| 15:34.11 | zecke | hehe |
| 15:34.12 | mickeyl | so we can have hack sessions here as well |
| 15:34.41 | mickeyl | oh btw. |
| 15:34.46 | LuitvD | rwhitby: found you an error |
| 15:35.11 | mickeyl | she won't be amused... |
| 15:35.25 | LuitvD | why not? |
| 15:35.37 | mickeyl | we were pretty good folks |
| 15:35.39 | mickeyl | paying regularly |
| 15:35.42 | LuitvD | :P |
| 15:35.45 | mickeyl | keeping house clean and stuff |
| 15:35.51 | SpeedEvil | That's easy to change. |
| 15:35.57 | mickeyl | heh |
| 15:36.06 | mickeyl | i guess she will be sad leaving us |
| 15:36.09 | mickeyl | *shrug* |
| 15:36.10 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 15:36.16 | mickeyl | can't take care about anyone in the world |
| 15:36.34 | LuitvD | invite me for a week, and you can be sure you'll be kicked out :P |
| 15:36.53 | SpeedEvil | Sure you can. Give her a nice smile as you leave, and say how much you've enjoyed being there. |
| 15:36.54 | SpeedEvil | Or not. |
| 15:37.16 | noidd | book contract? |
| 15:37.19 | noidd | what book? |
| 15:37.38 | mickeyl | Writing and Building Software for Embedded Linux Devices |
| 15:37.39 | mickeyl | :D |
| 15:37.48 | noidd | sounds appropriate :-D |
| 15:37.48 | mickeyl | found a publisher interest in doing this project with me |
| 15:37.53 | noidd | which one? |
| 15:37.57 | mickeyl | open source press |
| 15:38.02 | noidd | cool |
| 15:38.28 | mickeyl | if all goes well, this time a dual release |
| 15:38.31 | mickeyl | german + english a bit later |
| 15:39.01 | noidd | first language enlish I'm guesisng |
| 15:39.06 | noidd | larger audience I would assu,e |
| 15:39.31 | mickeyl | that's what i wanted |
| 15:39.36 | mickeyl | but not what they wanted :) |
| 15:39.43 | mickeyl | (opensourcepress.de) |
| 15:39.55 | mickeyl | but i'm fine with that, because it means I won't be in charge of translation |
| 15:40.02 | mickeyl | which i was quite afraid of |
| 15:40.44 | noidd | well, that sucks for me |
| 15:40.44 | noidd | put in lots of pictures :-P |
| 15:40.45 | mickeyl | sure thing :) |
| 15:40.45 | xkr47 | mickeyl, nice :) |
| 15:40.45 | noidd | congratulations anyways |
| 15:40.45 | mickeyl | thanks |
| 15:40.47 | noidd | I attempted writing a book at one point |
| 15:40.50 | noidd | but I gave up. |
| 15:41.05 | noidd | I hate writing documentation and writing a book is documentation on sterios |
| 15:41.05 | parag0n | mickeyl, i'll buy it |
| 15:41.07 | noidd | steriods |
| 15:41.19 | parag0n | i like ebedded linux books |
| 15:41.32 | mickeyl | of course i will make sure OpenMoko finds its way into it |
| 15:41.36 | noidd | Man, your resume is going to look damn good when you hit the marketplace propper |
| 15:41.42 | noidd | ie - out of uni |
| 15:41.54 | mickeyl | :) |
| 15:42.12 | mickeyl | my original plan was to take 6 months off after ph.d. |
| 15:42.16 | mickeyl | doesn't look like i can do it |
| 15:42.21 | mickeyl | too many interesting things to work on |
| 15:42.29 | mickeyl | *shrug* |
| 15:42.47 | mickeyl | more money to buy precious things for wife |
| 15:42.51 | mickeyl | *cough* |
| 15:42.55 | xkr47 | lol |
| 15:43.07 | xkr47 | buy her a openmoko once it has a "wife" mode :) |
| 15:43.13 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 15:43.34 | mickeyl | she will get a prototype |
| 15:43.35 | mickeyl | without case |
| 15:43.46 | *** join/#openmoko bhima (n=gf2e@64.213.69.96) |
| 15:43.56 | xkr47 | you could tape it to her hand bag also, on the outside.. ;) |
| 15:44.11 | Stephmw | mickeyl: could be worse... could be time for kids |
| 15:44.11 | mickeyl | oh yeah |
| 15:44.13 | mickeyl | might look cool |
| 15:44.20 | mickeyl | Stephmw: heh, right. |
| 15:44.29 | mickeyl | nothing planned for that route atm. |
| 15:44.34 | Stephmw | lol |
| 15:44.41 | xkr47 | mickeyl, as long as you don't take that 6 months off.. ;) |
| 15:44.42 | Stephmw | there's planning... and real life |
| 15:45.00 | parag0n | i'd marry you in exchange for a moko prototype |
| 15:45.11 | LuitvD | lol |
| 15:45.16 | mickeyl | hmm too bad my religion doesn't allow bigamy |
| 15:45.18 | mickeyl | sorry |
| 15:45.32 | parag0n | it probably doent allow two guys to get married either |
| 15:45.34 | xkr47 | mickeyl, trigamy or monogamy only ?-) |
| 15:45.42 | mickeyl | heh, right |
| 15:45.48 | mickeyl | xkr47: unfortunately everything >= 1 |
| 15:45.51 | mickeyl | eh |
| 15:45.54 | mickeyl | 2, even |
| 15:45.56 | LuitvD | :P |
| 15:46.02 | xkr47 | :DD |
| 15:46.03 | koen | mickeyl: only the following dirs in openmoko svn from trunk/oe/packages aren't merged yet: "gtk+" and "linux-qemu" |
| 15:46.27 | mickeyl | koen: gtk+ should have no differences as it was just a backport |
| 15:46.36 | mickeyl | linux-qemu is a bit tricky |
| 15:46.39 | mickeyl | just one hacky patch |
| 15:46.43 | mickeyl | to get framebuffer orientation right |
| 15:46.46 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p549BEDE6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:46.53 | denis^da | re |
| 15:46.53 | mickeyl | need to pester RP to make that via command line |
| 15:47.46 | koen | mickeyl: I'll leave merging conf/distro, classes/{base,sourcepkg}.bbclass and conf/machine/{x86,qt2410} up to you |
| 15:47.58 | mickeyl | oki |
| 15:48.06 | mickeyl | that's all in flux anyway |
| 15:48.11 | mickeyl | base is done |
| 15:48.15 | mickeyl | just the regexp |
| 15:49.16 | koen | mickeyl: if you move away already merged bits openmoko will build against current .dev |
| 15:49.33 | xkr47 | is libglade available? or is it unusable for openmoko and you have to use GtkBuilder? |
| 15:50.04 | mickeyl | depends on what comes first |
| 15:50.06 | mickeyl | gtkbuilder |
| 15:50.16 | mickeyl | or my work for adding libglade support for the extra openmoko widgets |
| 15:50.55 | xkr47 | is conversion between .glade and gtkbuilder files possible? |
| 15:51.20 | hrw|gone | mickeyl: linux-qemu? what for it is in openmoko? |
| 15:52.05 | mickeyl | it's a linux-rp 2.6.17 configured for Qemuarm and patched to have VGA portrait |
| 15:52.25 | mickeyl | xkr47: i think the format is 95% identical, if not more |
| 15:52.30 | hrw|gone | mickeyl: then extract that patch is all what is needed |
| 15:52.35 | xkr47 | ok nice.. |
| 15:52.41 | mickeyl | hrw: yes |
| 15:54.16 | hrw | mickeyl: I asked RP about it |
| 15:54.56 | mickeyl | a command line switch would be nice |
| 15:54.59 | mickeyl | kernel CMDLINE |
| 15:55.01 | mickeyl | that is |
| 15:55.06 | mickeyl | fb=portrait |
| 15:55.09 | mickeyl | fb=landscape |
| 15:55.42 | hrw | mickeyl: it is not rotated vga? |
| 15:55.52 | mickeyl | no |
| 15:55.59 | mickeyl | native resolution is 480x6480 |
| 15:56.03 | mickeyl | 480x640 even |
| 15:56.05 | hrw | ok |
| 15:56.10 | mickeyl | if it was rotated, we could have stopped the project |
| 15:56.12 | mickeyl | :D |
| 15:56.24 | mickeyl | rotating in softwarexrand would bring the s3c to a crawl |
| 15:56.28 | mickeyl | s/xrand// |
| 15:56.44 | mickeyl | even more than it already is |
| 15:57.04 | *** join/#openmoko midnight_ai (i=5696f3f7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-db5c69fca07f8b06) |
| 16:02.24 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:03.24 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p85.212.169.222.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 16:04.29 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@80-47-249-244.lond-th.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) |
| 16:04.40 | *** join/#openmoko scott_ (i=scott@crackaddict.com) |
| 16:05.44 | loufoque | anyone has screenshots of regular gtk+ or x11 apps running on openmoko? |
| 16:06.59 | hrw | loufoque: yes |
| 16:07.07 | hrw | http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/photos/gta01bv2_omoko/ |
| 16:07.39 | SpeedEvil | I want a movie of xeyes following a pointer :) |
| 16:07.47 | xkr47 | can you use the screen as a 640x480 display (i.e. 90° rotated) in X? |
| 16:07.56 | SpeedEvil | Not yet. |
| 16:08.02 | SpeedEvil | It will be with software rotation. |
| 16:08.06 | SpeedEvil | Which is fairly slow. |
| 16:08.28 | koen | mickeyl: RP has a patch to speed up rotated operation in X |
| 16:08.34 | koen | mickeyl: faster-rotated.patch in OE |
| 16:08.42 | mickeyl | cool. /me notes |
| 16:08.43 | SpeedEvil | The screen can be set into a 240*320 mode - which helps a bit. |
| 16:08.48 | SpeedEvil | For some apps. |
| 16:09.10 | xkr47 | oh nice |
| 16:09.27 | xkr47 | are X extensions such as RANDR supported ? |
| 16:09.31 | koen | mickeyl: it reorders the datapath a bit to get better cache usage. iirc it moves 32pixels at once instead of single pixels |
| 16:09.58 | SpeedEvil | Ah - cacheline oriented? |
| 16:10.04 | SpeedEvil | Makes sense. |
| 16:10.28 | mickeyl | koen: ah regarding performance |
| 16:10.35 | mickeyl | i need to check how much our performance improves when |
| 16:10.40 | mickeyl | a) disabling antialiasing |
| 16:10.57 | koen | http://openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/xorg-xserver/xserver-kdrive/faster-rotated.patch |
| 16:10.58 | SpeedEvil | Antialiasing when the user can't see the pixels doesn't make much sense :) |
| 16:11.01 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@unaffiliated/ninher) |
| 16:12.15 | xkr47 | :) |
| 16:12.20 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:12.36 | xkr47 | SpeedEvil, as with old CRTs then :) |
| 16:12.52 | koen | - * Copy the bits, always write across the physical frame buffer |
| 16:12.53 | koen | - * to take advantage of write combining. |
| 16:12.53 | koen | + * Copy in blocks of size BLOCKSIZE_WIDTH x BLOCKSIZE_HEIGHT |
| 16:12.53 | koen | + * to reduce the number of cache misses when rotating 90 or |
| 16:12.54 | koen | + * 270 degrees. |
| 16:12.58 | koen | that describes the patch best |
| 16:15.07 | LuitvD | koen: it can't rotate 180 degrees? |
| 16:15.28 | *** join/#openmoko dion (n=dion@xen.inhex.net) |
| 16:15.49 | koen | LuitvD: it can, but that's not a really usefull use case |
| 16:15.51 | LuitvD | :P |
| 16:16.03 | LuitvD | true |
| 16:16.07 | loufoque | hrw: I only see openmoko applications there, not regular gtk+ or x11 ones. |
| 16:17.21 | koen | SpeedEvil: left handed operation of a nokia 770 |
| 16:17.21 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. A flip, with a mirror on it with a touchscreen on it... |
| 16:18.11 | SpeedEvil | gah. |
| 16:18.29 | LuitvD | ah, indeed, it's useful on that device... :P |
| 16:19.10 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: mirrored reading is hard... mirrored writing even worse :P |
| 16:19.17 | *** join/#openmoko srikantux (n=sri@59.92.155.198) |
| 16:19.18 | SpeedEvil | IIRC, the GPS antenna is at the bottom. |
| 16:19.24 | SpeedEvil | In normal use. |
| 16:19.35 | SpeedEvil | For GPS apps, putting it at the top would make sense. |
| 16:19.38 | LuitvD[eating] | damn, stupid away script :P |
| 16:19.49 | koen | loufoque: gtk+ app: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/fc66e7b413c1da4ddb7a86ded2fd48e3.png |
| 16:20.08 | mickeyl | gtk+ theming is not finished |
| 16:20.16 | xkr47 | loufoque, they had a regular X border :) |
| 16:20.17 | mickeyl | as you can see in the red and green |
| 16:20.35 | mickeyl | but it doesn't look bad if you don't count the missing bits |
| 16:20.35 | mickeyl | imo |
| 16:20.58 | xkr47 | very nice |
| 16:21.15 | koen | mickeyl: when I adjust the fontsize in the gtkrc files the background pixmaps dissappeared :( |
| 16:21.17 | xkr47 | heh @ strikeover wifi logo |
| 16:21.24 | mickeyl | koen: very odd |
| 16:21.37 | koen | mickeyl: maybe a stray typo somewhere |
| 16:21.40 | mickeyl | ya |
| 16:23.12 | xkr47 | the red and green bars remind me of Command & Conquer ;) |
| 16:23.13 | koen | mickeyl: can we add the neo in here http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/xserver-kdrive-common/xserver-kdrive-common/etc/X11/Xserver ? |
| 16:23.48 | mickeyl | heh, you want to submit the real dpi?` |
| 16:24.01 | mickeyl | dunno whether this is too confusing now |
| 16:24.12 | mickeyl | feel free to add, but lets use the wrong dpi for some weeks more |
| 16:24.13 | koen | not *now* |
| 16:24.22 | mickeyl | cool |
| 16:24.24 | koen | but in a local diff when I get my p0 neo |
| 16:24.24 | mickeyl | sure thing then |
| 16:24.27 | mickeyl | :) |
| 16:24.46 | mickeyl | i wonder why i didn't need to patch that file |
| 16:24.56 | mickeyl | shouldn't the X server detect that? |
| 16:25.00 | mickeyl | [not dpi, of course] |
| 16:25.04 | mickeyl | but resolution |
| 16:25.21 | koen | # Its a device we dont know about - in which case force |
| 16:25.22 | koen | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:25.22 | koen | # it will defualt to trying to achieve 1024x768 |
| 16:25.26 | koen | kdrive is a bit special |
| 16:27.12 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 16:27.22 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 16:28.19 | *** join/#openmoko [g2] (n=g2@nslu2-linux/g2) |
| 16:29.23 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-177-196-211.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 16:29.53 | loufoque | can openmoko handle multiple graphical applications at the same time, with the ability to switch between applications? |
| 16:30.10 | mjr | yes |
| 16:30.25 | mjr | it runs an X server |
| 16:30.25 | koen | and linux |
| 16:30.37 | CM | LuitvD[eating]: Did your make fail on db3-native too? |
| 16:30.37 | newmedian | Is anyone adding nxclient support, by the way? |
| 16:33.33 | greentux | newmedian: which open source nx client is really usable? |
| 16:33.58 | loufoque | sure but how can you switch between applications? |
| 16:34.20 | koen | with your finger or the stylus |
| 16:35.19 | zecke | greentux: nxclient? all of them (there is only one) |
| 16:35.26 | newmedian | greentux, I've been using the one packaged for (k)ubuntu |
| 16:37.52 | *** join/#openmoko prpplague (n=dave@12.190.41.146) |
| 16:38.51 | newmedian | greentux, I'm having problems reaching freenx.berlios.de however the cache page shows the nxclient as part of freenx: http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:UQ5yBKk4FlQJ:freenx.berlios.de/+%2Bfreenx&hl=en&strip=1 |
| 16:42.09 | greentux | zecke: which license has nxclient? |
| 16:43.10 | greentux | zecke: there are some free approaches for nxclient, but only 30% of functionality realised |
| 16:43.38 | jebba | greentux, as I understand it there is no complete up-to-date nxclient yet. Check out qtnx for a client that works with some older releases. |
| 16:44.30 | greentux | ok. |
| 16:44.52 | *** part/#openmoko zoolooc (n=lucian@p549518C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:45.29 | newmedian | nxserver (freenx) on OpenMoko/Neo would be great, but having nxclient (and RDP) would make it a good support device. |
| 16:48.22 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:48.32 | *** join/#openmoko dyrne (i=pike@server1.freeshells.ch) |
| 16:49.30 | mjr | hmm, I seem to recall that an official source (Sean) at some point said that those buying this dev ed would get a discount of the mass market model; am I dreaming or does someone have a reference? |
| 16:49.40 | *** join/#openmoko PhilKC (i=greece@freenode/staff/about.linux.philkc) |
| 16:49.46 | koen | mjr: there was talk about that |
| 16:49.51 | jebba | interestingly, the guy that wrote qtnx is getting linux running on his HTC Universal phone--he wants to be able to run NX on it. ;) Perhaps he should just use a neo... |
| 16:49.59 | koen | nothing definitive afaik |
| 16:50.33 | hrw | koen: I'm curios how much revisions will be between p0 and p2 phones |
| 16:50.42 | jebba | koen, have you had any luck getting your images running under qemu or similar? I see it mentioned a lot but not that anyone has succeeded. |
| 16:50.50 | newmedian | Has anyone tried any bluetooth mating with in-car kits? Does it play well? |
| 16:51.04 | koen | hrw: hardware of software? |
| 16:51.09 | hrw | koen: hardware |
| 16:51.30 | koen | jebba: I don't use qemu, I have enough real ARM devices :) |
| 16:51.44 | jebba | ah, lucky you. ;) |
| 16:52.18 | hrw | koen: looks like OH qemu-native would be good addon for OE :D |
| 16:52.53 | Elrond | *G* |
| 16:53.20 | koen | jebba: http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/openmoko-running-on-an-ipaq |
| 16:53.20 | fluffs | i've got some way for a s3c2410 qemu |
| 16:54.46 | mjr | ah, I found his most definitive statement about discounts if hw revisions change: |
| 16:54.50 | mjr | "If we come out with something cool we'll make sure you guys can |
| 16:54.50 | mjr | get it at a discount if you already have a developers version. |
| 16:55.08 | koen | a 0% discount? |
| 16:55.17 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-177-196-211.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 16:55.19 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh05 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-177-196-211.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 16:55.56 | koen | I'm sure sean will try hard to get us a discount, but I wouldn't hold my breath |
| 16:56.11 | Kero | koen: any reason openmoko would not run on an ipaq h3630 ? |
| 16:56.32 | koen | Kero: no real reason |
| 16:56.50 | koen | maybe it would be a bit tight on storage space |
| 16:56.53 | mccarthy | Kero, what distro do you use to build for a 3630? |
| 16:56.54 | mjr | Kero, yeah |
| 16:57.24 | mjr | I mean, koen, yeah. |
| 16:58.06 | koen | newmedian: I have one of those, I'm not really impressed with it |
| 16:58.15 | Kero | mccarthy: nothing as of yet. I'll probably ask koen more details when I get to it :) |
| 16:58.32 | Kero | mccarthy: if for some reason I wouldn't run apps on my PC instead |
| 16:58.38 | newmedian | koen: ahh, too bad. Would be nice if the Neo could take advantage of a full crt |
| 17:01.00 | roh | fluffs what do you mean? qemu-arm and xnest? |
| 17:01.14 | koen | xnest? |
| 17:01.23 | koen | are people still using that instead of Xephyr? |
| 17:01.55 | Elrond | Debian's xoo recommends xnest ;o) |
| 17:02.17 | fluffs | roh: got it to boot serial console so far |
| 17:02.31 | roh | fluffs ah.. ok |
| 17:02.47 | fluffs | its on my todo list once the patch submissions are over |
| 17:03.25 | *** join/#openmoko jonshipman (n=jon@24-116-11-155.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 17:03.46 | roh | i wonder how much work it would need to hack a compatible hardware-emu for some devices like graphics and audio in qemu |
| 17:03.50 | *** part/#openmoko jonshipman (n=jon@24-116-11-155.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 17:04.42 | *** join/#openmoko shipman (n=jon@24-116-11-155.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 17:06.14 | Elrond | roh - GPS: forget it; gsm: hould be easy as an extermal program interfaing on a "serial line" with qemu. Rest: I have no idea. |
| 17:07.54 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@195.227.105.180) |
| 17:08.41 | *** join/#openmoko Agrajag-_ (n=filip@c211-30-185-177.artrmn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 17:09.02 | empty_mind | i get this error while using mokomakefile http://pastebin.com/882394 |
| 17:09.16 | empty_mind | any pointer to fix this ? |
| 17:09.18 | *** join/#openmoko moto125 (i=wirc@ACA4FA15.ipt.aol.com) |
| 17:10.03 | roh | Elrond i know.. i see harald in person from time to time ;) .. when i'm done setting up my build-env i will take a look what it needs to write a device-emulation for the graphics stuff.. would be neat to hack on it for apps which do not hard depend on gps or real gsm. one could put a modem-emulation which only speaks at and 'no reception, no sim' stubs to befriend the drivers |
| 17:10.07 | koen | empty_mind: yes, you didn't read GettingStarted |
| 17:10.55 | empty_mind | koen, i simply followed mokomakefile wiki page and building development environ. |
| 17:11.37 | koen | empty_mind: that doesn't matter |
| 17:11.49 | koen | you didn't read GettingStarted |
| 17:13.29 | empty_mind | koen, yes, id didnt read GettingStarted you re refering to. I only read the docs pointed to me earlier in the day |
| 17:14.00 | empty_mind | koen, i could not find any page titled GettingStarted in wiki. |
| 17:14.45 | koen | http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/GettingStarted |
| 17:15.45 | empty_mind | koen, thnxs i am reading it now |
| 17:17.03 | *** join/#openmoko theike01 (n=istuart@67-131-153-130.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 17:19.30 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=chatzill@c-67-188-65-30.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 17:22.10 | SpeedEvil | For a 'proper' GPS implementation that works with agpsd, you need to reverse engineer the hammerhead protocol, then feed it with simulated satellite dopplers over time. It probably makes a lot more sense to connect a NMEA GPS device, and have it warped to the normal output of GPS. |
| 17:22.47 | SpeedEvil | Or of course, you don't really need a GPS device to simulate, you can controll it with the mouse, or feed it a predetermined track. |
| 17:23.12 | *** part/#openmoko PsychoChicken (n=karypid@80-254-67-217.dynamic.monzoon.net) |
| 17:23.19 | Elrond | Right. |
| 17:23.33 | koen | stinking copyright infringers |
| 17:23.46 | Elrond | koen - huh? |
| 17:24.31 | koen | http://www.slashgear.com/openmoko-and-fic-neo1973-updates-153926.php <- notice any familiar looking screenshots? |
| 17:25.33 | newmedian | "We have new pictures Sean sent to us" |
| 17:26.06 | newmedian | Interesting. |
| 17:26.14 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 17:26.14 | dougt | love the video. "We have open source lots of things these days". |
| 17:26.49 | SuN | Isn't the artwork free as well? |
| 17:27.41 | *** join/#openmoko Harlekin (n=Harlekin@p3E9E21EE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:28.25 | koen | wow, those guys are fast |
| 17:28.31 | koen | hats of to slashgear |
| 17:28.32 | *** join/#openmoko sircrow (n=SirCrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 17:28.57 | koen | much better as microsoft thailand |
| 17:29.20 | newmedian | The http://digg.com/linux_unix/Linux_based_iPhone_killer_available_online_in_March is sitting at 973 diggs |
| 17:29.21 | koen | MS thailand now has a goatse picture on they windows mobile section somewhere |
| 17:29.22 | dougt | very fast indeed. ;-) |
| 17:30.16 | koen | hey dougt |
| 17:30.39 | koen | dougt: Xora debugged some more problems running mozilla stuff on ARM last week |
| 17:31.05 | sircrow | Does the phone realy comes in March? |
| 17:31.26 | SpeedEvil | Late march. |
| 17:31.32 | dougt | hi koen. |
| 17:31.33 | SpeedEvil | According to all infgormation. |
| 17:31.37 | sircrow | Splendit :-) |
| 17:31.42 | dougt | i really wanna see mozillla/minimo work well on the openmoko devices. |
| 17:32.03 | dougt | it is much more inline with what the mofo is about than windows ce stuff. ;-) |
| 17:32.23 | dougt | koen: are there bugz? |
| 17:32.28 | *** join/#openmoko taulen (n=saldong@236.80-202-247.nextgentel.com) |
| 17:32.37 | empty_mind | koen, steps mentioned in GettingStarted are already executed in mokomakefile. see that step is failing while trying to checkout db |
| 17:32.45 | dougt | (as in filed somewhere... i am not claiming there are none. :-) ) |
| 17:33.20 | koen | empty_mind: you still haven't read GettingStarted properly |
| 17:33.36 | koen | dougt: the bugs are at least in the debian and bsd bugtrackers |
| 17:34.09 | koen | empty_mind: search for '32' in the GettingStarted page |
| 17:34.51 | empty_mind | koen, well let me wait for rwhitby to wakeup before proceeding. mY aim si to test mokomakefile and not openembeded atthis time |
| 17:35.07 | koen | dougt: the double-to-int function in mozilla is a bit broken, since arm has weird word ordering for floats |
| 17:35.15 | koen | empty_mind: you can't test the one without the other |
| 17:35.24 | koen | well, you can test OE without the makefile |
| 17:35.39 | dougt | koen: i think we have a patch for that somewhere. |
| 17:35.46 | dougt | koen: it is a NSPR bug, right? |
| 17:36.20 | koen | dougt: we got this one from debian iirc: http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/mozilla/firefox-2.0.0.1/jsdtoa-float-type.patch |
| 17:36.35 | koen | empty_mind: the makefile doesn't absolve you from using common sense |
| 17:37.50 | newmedian | There should be a "sense" section in the Makefile, so you can just: make sense |
| 17:38.24 | empty_mind | koen, thnxs for giving me knowledge. |
| 17:38.35 | *** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 17:40.12 | dougt | koen: any idea why this isn't a problem on other ARM devices running WinCE? |
| 17:40.54 | koen | dougt: maybe they have a dtoa libc function like bsd |
| 17:41.04 | dougt | koen: is this a without FP problem only? |
| 17:41.34 | koen | dougt: no, it's an ABI problem, but it's a oneliner to fix |
| 17:41.46 | dougt | yup. |
| 17:42.00 | dougt | i will file a bug again the js lib, and ask brendan to look at it. |
| 17:44.31 | *** join/#openmoko dyrne (i=pike@server1.freeshells.ch) |
| 17:47.52 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=Zoolooc@p549518C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:52.18 | shipman | oh, I just read that |
| 17:52.31 | *** join/#openmoko taulen (n=saldong@236.80-202-247.nextgentel.com) |
| 17:53.46 | shipman | not too shabby |
| 17:54.58 | roh | muahhhh |
| 17:55.17 | shipman | What can I say? I have high ambitions |
| 17:55.24 | shipman | or dreams |
| 17:55.28 | *** join/#openmoko apakatt (n=apakatt@89.207.216.81.static.j.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 17:55.41 | roh | shipman nice idea.. most so called phones which say they can do that cannot even be a proper phone.. hopefully that changes |
| 17:55.52 | shipman | yeah |
| 17:56.42 | fluffs | gah! can someone unblock my posting to openmoko-kernel |
| 17:56.53 | fluffs | (please) |
| 17:57.10 | shipman | I can envision a time when a customer can come home to his desk, pop his phone into a dock, and be able to plugin in a VGA/DVI monitor and a mouse and keyboard and get a full functioning os |
| 17:57.23 | shipman | that'd be fun |
| 17:58.08 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p549BE2CA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:58.49 | shipman | and I'd love to see the neo1973 evolve into a device of that caliber within the next decade or so |
| 17:58.54 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:59.05 | roh | shipman come back in 5 years when computing power is small enough and cheap enough to make sth. like this possible... but do not wonder if you only have a few minutes battery-live then... batterys sadly did not really improve like other technologies did since li-pol |
| 17:59.18 | shipman | yeah |
| 18:00.31 | shipman | though I'm still thinking that while docked it would use a powercord and on the go use a smaller footprint phone OS |
| 18:00.43 | shipman | that would save power |
| 18:01.28 | shipman | and hopefully we won't be using li-pol in 5 years |
| 18:04.37 | loufoque | the phone to be released in september is the second generation? When is the first generation released? |
| 18:05.16 | koen | counter? |
| 18:05.16 | aloril | source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; a week, 5 days 17:54:43 (6.746 - 12.746 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, a week, 5 days (28.746 - 43.746 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, a week, 5 days (196.746 - 226.746 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (346) |
| 18:06.48 | loufoque | what's the difference between the release next month and the one in september? |
| 18:07.05 | SpeedEvil | Li-poly is mostly irrelevant, the phone uses around 1W when full on - probably. You can't simply replace the battery with an awesome one and put it to 15W - it'll burn the user. |
| 18:07.10 | SpeedEvil | TBA |
| 18:07.16 | SpeedEvil | 'in the coming months' |
| 18:07.23 | SpeedEvil | Obviously more polished software. |
| 18:07.33 | SpeedEvil | _probably_ camera and or wifi |
| 18:07.36 | *** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 18:08.03 | SpeedEvil | Oops. |
| 18:08.08 | SpeedEvil | No, misread. |
| 18:08.20 | SpeedEvil | The phones will be more or less identical, apart from small changes. |
| 18:08.39 | SpeedEvil | The phone to be _announced_ in Sep may have camera and or wifi. |
| 18:09.51 | empty_mind | SpeedEvil, will it be possible for someone to buy a phone without camra, assuming TBA phone has a camera? |
| 18:09.55 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@segfault.net) |
| 18:10.06 | SpeedEvil | The current model has no camera. |
| 18:10.13 | shipman | I wish the camera was removable and therefore upgradable :D |
| 18:10.18 | SpeedEvil | The one released in Sep will not have a camera. |
| 18:10.19 | shipman | the = a |
| 18:10.24 | SpeedEvil | It would be nice. |
| 18:10.32 | empty_mind | shipman, ++1 |
| 18:10.51 | SpeedEvil | See [[expansion back]] on wiki.openmoko.org |
| 18:10.53 | dougt | empty_mind: either ++ or +1, not ++1. ;-) |
| 18:10.54 | newmedian | A lot of places ban the use of cameraphones, particularly for security and modesty reasons |
| 18:10.56 | loufoque | then I should just order it next month |
| 18:11.04 | shipman | maybe additional modules to use as a replacement to a camera |
| 18:11.20 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Expansion_Back |
| 18:11.21 | shipman | like have a tiny HDD that would fit in the slot |
| 18:11.24 | empty_mind | dougt, +1 ;-) |
| 18:11.51 | SpeedEvil | I suppose you could do an expansion back with a battery and 1.8" HD. |
| 18:12.42 | shipman | yeah |
| 18:12.54 | SpeedEvil | I would hope that one difference between now and Sep would be better support for an expansion back - an extra connector with VCC+USB+2GPIO. |
| 18:13.07 | shipman | I was thinking some system akin to the GBcolor and that camera it used though more sleek |
| 18:14.16 | SpeedEvil | a centimeter thick back could easily have a camera and external SD slot. |
| 18:14.27 | empty_mind | hey idea of AA or AAA powered battery is cool |
| 18:14.34 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 18:14.41 | shipman | I suppose |
| 18:14.55 | *** join/#openmoko chrustinho (n=christop@p57B04471.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:15.18 | empty_mind | i can envision a duracell ad saying your phone lasts long really long ;-) |
| 18:15.44 | SpeedEvil | Or fuel cell. |
| 18:16.00 | shipman | I've never been too much a fan of AA/AAA batteries myself |
| 18:16.08 | shipman | encourages too much waste |
| 18:16.09 | empty_mind | SpeedEvil, lets add solar cell too |
| 18:16.17 | SpeedEvil | NiMH AA +++ |
| 18:16.24 | shipman | yeah |
| 18:16.33 | shipman | that's what I use |
| 18:16.48 | SpeedEvil | There have recently been released a crop of NiMH cells that have self-discharge comparable with alkaline - 85% charge after a years storage. |
| 18:16.54 | SpeedEvil | The Hybrio/Eneloop ones. |
| 18:16.59 | shipman | though everyone else in the world seems to be less enlightened |
| 18:17.02 | shipman | oh |
| 18:17.26 | shipman | I may look into those as some of my NiMH's are losing charge |
| 18:17.40 | roh | yuk... i will never buy devices like phones with nimh or -cd again.. why should somebody |
| 18:18.00 | shipman | Exactly |
| 18:18.08 | SpeedEvil | Off-topic - http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1120 - 1W LED flashlight, $5. bought 5 :) |
| 18:18.20 | SpeedEvil | err - why should somebody what? |
| 18:19.08 | loufoque | SpeedEvil: "Unfortunately, downloading an arbitrary video, and playing it will not be possible." not if you make some kind of tool that automatically reencodes it to something playable. |
| 18:19.15 | SpeedEvil | well - yes. |
| 18:19.16 | roh | li-ion/poly are more expensive, yeah.. but also have much superior enery per space/weigth and are even high-current-discharge is doable afaik |
| 18:19.20 | SpeedEvil | Real-time. |
| 18:19.37 | SpeedEvil | Energy per unit volume is about a wash between NiMH and Li-Ion. |
| 18:20.03 | SpeedEvil | loufoque: Well - yes, but not in real time. |
| 18:20.36 | roh | SpeedEvil the only reason some companys are selling nimh again is that they sucked on producing good li based ones and only go for cheap |
| 18:20.37 | SpeedEvil | Energy per unit weight, Li-Ion is a clear winner. |
| 18:21.08 | SpeedEvil | Li-ion can't do 1.5V output. |
| 18:21.18 | roh | so what? |
| 18:21.40 | roh | 3.6 it can.. and thats ideal for supplying low-power electronics |
| 18:21.57 | SpeedEvil | Sure - but not the vast array of 1.5V devices out there. |
| 18:22.09 | SpeedEvil | Plus, most Li-ion cells are single device only. |
| 18:22.12 | SpeedEvil | Which is annoying. |
| 18:22.28 | SpeedEvil | Anyway, pointless discussing here, we're not arguing facts but opinions. |
| 18:22.42 | SpeedEvil | Or rather preferences. |
| 18:23.50 | roh | SpeedEvil its a phone.. no kiddie-rc-car |
| 18:25.10 | jebba | hmm, `mtn update` appears to be just hanging forever... |
| 18:26.11 | roh | one could do a li-ion standard format.. but that has to include the charging controller since it is mostly optimized for the exact type to prevent 'exothermic' behavior.. its not really a technical problem. and there are even some types widely used.. e.g. nokia ones for bluetooth-gps-recievers |
| 18:28.39 | *** part/#openmoko worch (n=lucian@74-134-231-43.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 18:29.03 | SpeedEvil | Li-ion AA and AAA cells are available. |
| 18:29.18 | shipman | why can't we make a phone run on dreams and rainbows? |
| 18:29.18 | SpeedEvil | These may cause some devices to die of course. |
| 18:29.22 | loufoque | AA takes place. |
| 18:29.37 | roh | but not to end-consumers. its just not responsible to sell such things unprotected by electronics |
| 18:29.44 | SpeedEvil | To end consumers. |
| 18:30.06 | SpeedEvil | http://www.dealextreme.com/ look for 10440 and 14550 - AAA and AA size li-ion. |
| 18:30.10 | roh | short it and sue them if you are in the US ;) |
| 18:30.18 | SpeedEvil | Also dual-mode LED torches that can work for either. |
| 18:30.34 | SpeedEvil | (higher power on li-ion.) |
| 18:31.19 | SpeedEvil | Who was it that commented on my [[video player]] page - I've rewritten to make more sense now I hope. |
| 18:31.36 | SpeedEvil | ah. |
| 18:32.04 | *** join/#openmoko Boaz_- (n=Boaz@bull1.hereno.info) |
| 18:33.48 | sixfeet | reboot |
| 18:34.33 | *** join/#openmoko Kaco (n=kanzels@adsl-d72.84-47-44.t-com.sk) |
| 18:34.39 | Kaco | hey guys |
| 18:34.49 | sircrow | Hi |
| 18:34.53 | SpeedEvil | There may be girls here too. |
| 18:34.58 | SpeedEvil | Or FBI agents. |
| 18:35.04 | sircrow | LOL |
| 18:35.10 | Kaco | i wanted to ask something... is it possible to build OpenMoko from sources already? or all those pictures on Wiki are just mockups? |
| 18:35.11 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis_ (n=Miranda@86.34.3.192) |
| 18:35.31 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 18:35.37 | SpeedEvil | however, most pics are mockups. |
| 18:35.44 | Kaco | oh and do you think it is possible to build OpenMoko on some different PDA with ARM processor and 480x640 display? |
| 18:35.46 | Kaco | ok |
| 18:35.53 | SpeedEvil | In princupole, sure. |
| 18:35.59 | Kaco | ok |
| 18:36.05 | koen | more eye-candy: http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/theming-psplash-for-openmoko |
| 18:36.07 | SpeedEvil | Do you have full hardware details is the fun question. |
| 18:36.09 | Kaco | because all PDAs come with this crappy windows mobile :-D |
| 18:36.24 | *** join/#openmoko robtaylor (n=robtaylo@63.99.9.131) |
| 18:37.03 | SpeedEvil | There are projects out there to reverse engineer windows PDAs. But it's a horrible process. Vanishingly small numbers of devices have actual linux working fully. |
| 18:37.27 | Kaco | yeah |
| 18:37.35 | Kaco | is there any list of devices that work? |
| 18:37.42 | Kaco | i'm thinkg of buying Acer N311 |
| 18:37.49 | SpeedEvil | linux-devices.com IIRC |
| 18:37.52 | Kaco | ah ok |
| 18:37.54 | Kaco | let me check |
| 18:37.54 | SpeedEvil | or look on wikipedia. |
| 18:37.58 | Kaco | ok |
| 18:38.05 | SpeedEvil | Often the page for the device will mention it. |
| 18:38.07 | Kaco | damn can't wait until end of year to get Neo1973 |
| 18:38.17 | SpeedEvil | It's late march. |
| 18:38.18 | Kaco | so I would like to contribute my work too |
| 18:38.24 | SpeedEvil | For unfinished software. |
| 18:38.26 | Kaco | late march where? europe also? |
| 18:38.33 | SpeedEvil | Everywhere. |
| 18:38.38 | Kaco | but wait |
| 18:38.44 | SpeedEvil | Anyone can order. |
| 18:38.45 | Kaco | you mean anybody can buy it in march? |
| 18:38.52 | SpeedEvil | For $350. |
| 18:38.54 | SpeedEvil | US |
| 18:38.55 | Kaco | but software won't be ready? |
| 18:39.12 | SpeedEvil | well - it'll be a phone at least, and do most normal phone things. |
| 18:39.23 | SpeedEvil | What of the rest will be finished is an interesting question. |
| 18:39.23 | Kaco | ah ok, that's fairly enough |
| 18:39.29 | *** join/#openmoko apardo (n=apardo@87.217.145.146) |
| 18:39.29 | Kaco | haha |
| 18:39.29 | *** join/#openmoko Boaz_- (n=Boaz@bull1.hereno.info) |
| 18:39.32 | SpeedEvil | s/finished/working/ |
| 18:39.33 | Kaco | i guess a lot |
| 18:39.34 | Kaco | since it's open |
| 18:39.41 | SpeedEvil | It's open. |
| 18:39.59 | SpeedEvil | But a actual physical device in the hand makes people more motivated IMO. |
| 18:39.59 | Kaco | yeah i can see hundreds of applications coming very soon |
| 18:40.05 | Kaco | yeah |
| 18:40.20 | Kaco | anyway what bothers me is missing wifi, that's why i wanted to buy PDA |
| 18:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84-122-65-39.onocable.ono.com) |
| 18:40.29 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - that's an annoyance for me. |
| 18:40.34 | Kaco | bluetooth is fine, I can connect at home using Mac bluetooth |
| 18:40.39 | SpeedEvil | I've decided I can live without it for bluetooth. |
| 18:40.44 | Kaco | but i read somewhere newer version might include wifi? |
| 18:40.56 | SpeedEvil | The version in Sep will be the same as now. |
| 18:41.02 | Kaco | hmm that's a pity |
| 18:41.08 | SpeedEvil | Then will be announced another phone with more features. |
| 18:41.42 | Kaco | because i can connect at thousands places with wifi |
| 18:41.42 | SpeedEvil | Which may include wifi/camera/3g |
| 18:41.43 | Kaco | but only at home with bluetooth |
| 18:41.54 | SpeedEvil | I'm going to be working on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Expansion_Back - to add wifi. |
| 18:42.30 | Kaco | koen, nice splash! ... and display is wow... huge! |
| 18:42.30 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Expansion_Back |
| 18:42.39 | Kaco | ok cool |
| 18:42.56 | Kaco | anyway to clarify OpenMoko |
| 18:43.10 | koen | Kaco: that's an ipaq, not a neo |
| 18:43.11 | Kaco | whole OpenMoko is a platform? and it includes kernel/x11 server etc? |
| 18:43.16 | Kaco | koen, oh :) |
| 18:43.39 | Kaco | koen, but is it actually OpenMoko or just OM like splash? |
| 18:44.24 | koen | Kaco: OM like splash |
| 18:44.28 | Kaco | ok :) |
| 18:44.47 | Kaco | damn it |
| 18:45.00 | Kaco | i need wifi/vga pocket device now ... i will eat my fingers till march |
| 18:45.10 | SpeedEvil | :() |
| 18:45.14 | Kaco | :) |
| 18:45.22 | loufoque | neo1973 doesn't have wifi |
| 18:45.30 | Kaco | i have LG subnotebook, but still it's too big and heavy compared to phone |
| 18:45.34 | Kaco | loufoque, i know |
| 18:45.37 | loufoque | nor does it have vga |
| 18:45.42 | Kaco | it has VGA resolution |
| 18:45.55 | Kaco | that's what I meant, since most PDAs has QVGA (240x320) |
| 18:46.30 | Kaco | loufoque, i might actually buy different device, but definitely I will try to switch it to OpenMoko |
| 18:47.05 | loufoque | I thought VGA only had 256 colors or something |
| 18:47.29 | Kaco | ah sure |
| 18:47.40 | Kaco | but with PDAs or smartphones they call resolution (640x480) ... err VGA :) |
| 18:47.53 | fluffs | many use VGA as the resolution of VGA onlky |
| 18:48.00 | Kaco | yeah |
| 18:48.33 | Kaco | anyway those mockups of UI looks perfect, but I'm afraid they can't be designed exactly same with GTK+ |
| 18:49.05 | Kaco | but still GTK+ looks very nice, but is wasting space a little bit |
| 18:49.54 | loufoque | why doesn't openmoko use an open codec for voice/audio instead of that Wolfson stuff? |
| 18:50.13 | Kaco | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QVGA |
| 18:50.14 | Kaco | :) |
| 18:51.18 | SpeedEvil | The wolfson chip is simply A/D and D/A it doesn't get more open than that. |
| 18:52.42 | *** join/#openmoko apardo_ (n=apardo@87.217.144.228) |
| 18:56.10 | Kaco | http://www.1-click.jp ... LOL! |
| 19:04.01 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gburt@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 19:04.49 | dougt | heh. i always wondered how the mouse really worked. :-) |
| 19:09.39 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:10.34 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=LuitvD@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 19:10.42 | LuitvD | back :P |
| 19:11.06 | LuitvD | another kernel spinlock, yay |
| 19:11.13 | *** join/#openmoko rep (n=rep@vs187078.vserver.de) |
| 19:12.09 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x_ (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:14.00 | *** join/#openmoko BenC__ (n=bcollins@collinsap1.phunnypharm.org) |
| 19:17.49 | *** join/#openmoko jzs (n=king@217.116.232.184) |
| 19:18.34 | jebba | I built a xoo for FC6 if anyone is interested: ftp://ftp.blagblagblag.org/pub/BLAG/linux/60000/en/os/i386/BLAG/RPMS.extras/xoo-0.7-0blag.fc6.i386.rpm |
| 19:20.30 | *** join/#openmoko taulen (n=saldong@236.80-202-247.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:25.12 | *** join/#openmoko neclimdul (n=necro@66-100-226-234-dyndsl.oplink.net) |
| 19:26.03 | neclimdul | so I hear this is the place to come for developer info |
| 19:26.09 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@unaffiliated/ninher) |
| 19:26.54 | SpeedEvil | One of them. |
| 19:27.05 | SpeedEvil | First have a read of wiki.openmoko.org |
| 19:28.15 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: don't suppose you know why they are using a LM4857 stereo amp when the WM8753 has amplified HP out and a .5W speaker driver? |
| 19:28.41 | loufoque | is there a tutorial explaining how to emulate the neo1973? |
| 19:28.57 | SpeedEvil | loufoque: there are instructions on the wiki. |
| 19:29.07 | *** join/#openmoko Matt_PI (n=chatzill@209.198.66.141) |
| 19:29.09 | SpeedEvil | Stereo speaker driver? |
| 19:29.26 | SpeedEvil | Maybe that's it. |
| 19:29.42 | koen | prpplague: to drive a 1W speaker? ;) |
| 19:29.49 | koen | prpplague: what's cooking? |
| 19:30.00 | prpplague | koen: ssdd, just getting ready for a concept meeting |
| 19:30.14 | prpplague | koen: 1W speaker ? in the neo1973? |
| 19:30.20 | buz | i can just hear how the thing will sound if you drive it with 1w |
| 19:30.22 | koen | I have no idea |
| 19:30.46 | SpeedEvil | Small speakers actually can take 1W quite well - for ones designed like that. |
| 19:30.46 | prpplague | koen: oh hehe |
| 19:30.55 | loufoque | SpeedEvil: I can only see building instructions, are those it? |
| 19:31.05 | SpeedEvil | As the frequency goes up, the power they can handle without overloading rises. |
| 19:31.16 | SpeedEvil | Unsure - I've never built it. |
| 19:31.24 | buz | well taking and sounding ok is a difference |
| 19:31.34 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: hmm, i've done some testing, and a .250W speaker does pretty darn good for most handheld apps, i can't imagin needing 1W |
| 19:31.44 | koen | prpplague: his regular speakers it's usually a good idea to overdimension the amp to get less artifacts and distortion |
| 19:31.44 | SpeedEvil | Loud ringer. |
| 19:31.56 | koen | prpplague: but that's with kiloWatts :) |
| 19:32.21 | SpeedEvil | They will not handle high power at low frequencies - the speaker bangs against the stop. |
| 19:32.22 | koen | prpplague: 1W ~ 100dB at 1 meters |
| 19:32.34 | koen | or 120dB |
| 19:32.39 | SpeedEvil | As the frequency rises, they start to be able to handle more power. |
| 19:32.51 | SpeedEvil | 100 is an efficient speaker. |
| 19:32.54 | SpeedEvil | IIRC. |
| 19:33.17 | SpeedEvil | 92 or so is probably more realistic for the sort of speakers int he neo, peaking at 1-5Khz or so. |
| 19:34.09 | prpplague | hmm |
| 19:34.39 | SpeedEvil | Why? |
| 19:34.41 | prpplague | koen: hows things in your corner of the world? |
| 19:35.14 | koen | prpplague: rainy |
| 19:35.23 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: because me two current designs don't include an amp for the speaker out |
| 19:35.26 | prpplague | s/me/my |
| 19:35.27 | koen | prpplague: how's DFW? |
| 19:35.41 | SpeedEvil | If it sounds OK for you, then it's fine. |
| 19:35.42 | prpplague | koen: cold cold cold, it was like -2C this morning |
| 19:36.12 | koen | prpplague: I wonder what powers the buzzer/vibrator |
| 19:36.13 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea, i think for the proto's i'll place some pads for an amp if i need it |
| 19:36.37 | SpeedEvil | .25W only sounds a little fainter than 1W. |
| 19:37.05 | SpeedEvil | koen: look on the dissasembly page. |
| 19:37.28 | SpeedEvil | The vibrator is the thing in the middle of the case next to the transparent plastic with the speakers under |
| 19:37.28 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea, the TLV320AIC26 has .350W out and the WM8753 has .5W, so i figure it should be fine |
| 19:37.53 | SpeedEvil | It's a little motor with an offset weight - which you can just see above it. |
| 19:38.16 | SpeedEvil | It's powered probably from a transistor connected to the battery. Or maybe power supply. |
| 19:39.10 | XorA|gone | SpeedEvil: apparently the chinese market likes phones which are LOUD and DISTORTED to insane levels |
| 19:39.30 | SpeedEvil | You don't have to drive the speaker as loud as the amp will take of course. |
| 19:39.49 | koen | XorA|gone: you can't appreciate music without clipping some sine waves |
| 19:39.54 | *** join/#openmoko dwery (n=dwery@nslu2-linux/dwery) |
| 19:41.17 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 19:41.38 | thresh | XorA|gone: cat /boot/initrd > /dev/dsp ? :) |
| 19:41.42 | leventhal | very nice Xor |
| 19:41.43 | koen | XorA|gone: it does 8kHz quite well? |
| 19:42.00 | XorA|gone | koen: it should do |
| 19:42.21 | SpeedEvil | XorA|gone: do you know if it's possible to insert the CPU in both sides of the path? To do stuff like vocoders, or more interesting apps? |
| 19:42.24 | XorA|gone | koen: but all I really did is listen to some pounding techno and make a phone call |
| 19:42.38 | XorA|gone | SpeedEvil: totally possibly |
| 19:42.41 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 19:42.52 | XorA|gone | SpeedEvil: ring modulator is what you want |
| 19:43.01 | SpeedEvil | Stuff like per-caller shrill voice repitching may be nice. |
| 19:43.09 | XorA|gone | EXTERMINATE, WE ARE THE DALEKS, YOUR CALL IS SPAM, EXTERMINATE |
| 19:43.18 | thresh | All your base are belong to us. |
| 19:44.01 | XorA|gone | you can do some really irritating stuff like delay their voice 5 secs then send it back, most people stop talking when that happens to them |
| 19:44.02 | dwery | XorA|gone: so audio from the mic can be processed before is being sent out on airwaves? |
| 19:44.09 | XorA|gone | dwery: yes |
| 19:44.20 | SpeedEvil | Actually - not ring modulator, pitch bending is more complex than that. |
| 19:44.25 | koen | hey dwery |
| 19:44.26 | SpeedEvil | Ring mod is fun too though. |
| 19:44.29 | XorA|gone | dwery: mic->capture->cpu->playback->gsm |
| 19:44.34 | *** join/#openmoko dion (n=dion@xen.inhex.net) |
| 19:44.36 | dwery | XorA|gone: that opens to interesting things.. |
| 19:44.55 | prpplague | hmm, i thought the WM chip had a sidetone generator |
| 19:44.55 | XorA|gone | dwery: but I will warn you there are 97 mixer controls on Neo |
| 19:45.02 | SpeedEvil | For example, some people find high pitched voices hard to understand. |
| 19:45.03 | dwery | XorA|gone: whoa! |
| 19:45.10 | SpeedEvil | Due to hearing problems. |
| 19:45.18 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@xdsl-213-196-248-71.netcologne.de) |
| 19:45.25 | dwery | that device truly amazes me every second.. |
| 19:45.50 | koen | XorA|gone: I misread that as AC97 the first 5 times |
| 19:46.03 | SpeedEvil | The sad thing is that it's probably not an especially great device. |
| 19:46.14 | SpeedEvil | It's just one that we can play with all the fun bits on. |
| 19:46.19 | dwery | koen: nice to see you here :) |
| 19:46.42 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: what other chips were considered? |
| 19:46.57 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: I'm in no way involved with the design. |
| 19:47.11 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: oh |
| 19:47.11 | SpeedEvil | I just have designed portable audio stuff before. |
| 19:47.37 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: ahh ok, well we are looking at using the TLV320AIC series, mainly because of cost |
| 19:47.58 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - that's an interesting and cheap family. |
| 19:47.59 | Matt_PI | how is video lookin on the neo |
| 19:48.12 | SpeedEvil | Look at the wiki, under [[video player]] |
| 19:48.15 | XorA|gone | prpplague: please evaluate Wolfson parts |
| 19:48.18 | Matt_PI | ok |
| 19:48.26 | spikebik1 | counter |
| 19:48.26 | aloril | P0: a week, 5 days 16:11:33 (6.675 - 12.675 days); P1: 28.675 - 43.675; P2: 196.675 - 226.675 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (347) |
| 19:48.33 | SpeedEvil | Briefly, fullscreen is probably possible, but only with specially coded video. |
| 19:49.01 | XorA|gone | mencoder -vf scale=320:240,rotate=1 |
| 19:49.03 | Matt_PI | so somthing like corecodec |
| 19:49.11 | XorA|gone | will get something like 18fps with sound |
| 19:49.19 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 19:49.28 | SpeedEvil | Nice to know my ballpark guess was spot on. |
| 19:49.39 | SpeedEvil | mpeg1? |
| 19:49.48 | XorA|gone | SpeedEvil: mpeg4 |
| 19:50.05 | neclimdul | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:50.14 | SpeedEvil | Is that with sound? |
| 19:50.18 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 19:50.57 | XorA|gone | SpeedEvil: I can play 23.997 fps on Neo now but mine runs at 200Mhz so we are slightly guessing what happens when it runs at full speed |
| 19:51.05 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 19:51.08 | XorA|gone | SpeedEvil: without sound |
| 19:51.39 | SpeedEvil | It's likely then that with the optimal codec - whatever it is - it'll be quite possible then. |
| 19:51.44 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 19:51.54 | XorA|gone | SpeedEvil: and nothing clever being done in mplayer, there are some arm coding geniuses that have some ideas for making mplayer/ffmpeg much more arm friendly |
| 19:52.01 | SpeedEvil | Great. |
| 19:52.25 | dwery | btw.. may I ask which kind of connector is used for the external GPS antenna? |
| 19:52.38 | SpeedEvil | what's the hit on software rotate? |
| 19:53.02 | XorA|gone | SpeedEvil: I already have all my video pre-rotate for zaurus, so I never checked |
| 19:53.17 | SpeedEvil | dwery: there is a close picture on the dissasembly pics. |
| 19:53.34 | dwery | SpeedEvil: can't see if is SMB or SMA or something similar |
| 19:53.40 | SpeedEvil | Have you benchmarked mpeg1/mpeg4? |
| 19:54.04 | SpeedEvil | And what sort of bitrate are you using? |
| 19:54.28 | SpeedEvil | Ok - I'll update the wiki with that. |
| 19:54.34 | XorA | SpeedEvil: I ignore mpeg1 as ffmpeg doesnt decode it at all efficiently, I use 400kbps for mpeg4 |
| 19:54.46 | XorA | SpeedEvil: at 320x240 400kbps is fine |
| 19:54.48 | SpeedEvil | Thanks. |
| 19:54.56 | SpeedEvil | Esp with a 2.8" screen :) |
| 19:54.59 | dwery | SpeedEvil: ty. I placed a not on the wiki about that. |
| 19:55.20 | *** join/#openmoko Agrajag-_ (n=filip@c211-30-185-177.artrmn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 19:55.27 | XorA | SpeedEvil: with that small a picture its not even worth 2 passing the video |
| 19:55.32 | prpplague | XorA: what aspect of the Wolfson part makes it more attractive than the TI part? |
| 19:55.49 | XorA | prpplague: two linux engineers here |
| 19:56.26 | prpplague | XorA: ahh, well from what i'm seeing there is about a $4 to $5 difference in cost |
| 19:57.05 | XorA | prpplague: you would have to contact our local sales offices for pricing, I only do driver support |
| 19:57.15 | XorA | prpplague: what CPU are you planning on using? |
| 19:57.21 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 19:57.40 | prpplague | XorA: two designs, one with the S3C2410 and the other with the S3C2440 |
| 19:58.20 | Matt_PI | the poeple at Joost just realeased a new client last week and Corcodec was using far less CPU for full screen video and corecodec is supposed to be optimised for devices |
| 19:58.22 | XorA | prpplague: that CPU is the ones I support, and wm8753 is pretty solid on those |
| 19:58.49 | prpplague | XorA: yea, i was looking at the posted patches yesterday |
| 19:59.08 | SpeedEvil | XorA - what mpeg4 codec? |
| 19:59.15 | XorA | SpeedEvil: ffmpeg |
| 19:59.18 | Matt_PI | http://www.corecodec.com/ |
| 19:59.24 | SpeedEvil | K, finishing wiki. |
| 20:00.10 | prpplague | XorA: yea, major difference is that i couldn't find any of our normal suppliers who carried the wm8753 |
| 20:00.17 | gw280 | prpplague!! |
| 20:00.29 | prpplague | gw280: yes? |
| 20:00.40 | gw280 | prpplague: how are you these days? |
| 20:00.42 | XorA | prpplague: Im afraid I have no idea of our supply chain, Ive only been in Wolfson 6 months |
| 20:00.49 | gw280 | prpplague: (I'm George in case you don't recognise me) |
| 20:00.56 | prpplague | gw280: oh, hey, doing ok |
| 20:01.05 | XorA | prpplague: catch lrg online sometime, he is old school with Wolfson |
| 20:01.13 | prpplague | ahh ok |
| 20:02.16 | *** join/#openmoko bigbang14 (n=pattuzzi@88-106-158-167.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 20:02.17 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Video_Player updated. |
| 20:02.27 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 20:02.53 | bigbang14 | hello? im new a IRC |
| 20:03.08 | Matt_PI | sppeddevil check out what the guys at Corecodec are doing also |
| 20:03.44 | Matt_PI | maybe they will develop for openmoko |
| 20:03.49 | bigbang14 | what are they doing? |
| 20:04.02 | thresh | produce closedsource videostuff |
| 20:04.17 | Matt_PI | based on opensource also |
| 20:04.29 | thresh | bsd one? |
| 20:04.30 | bigbang14 | interesting |
| 20:04.37 | XorA | Matt_PI: I have TCPMP on my windows mobile it is sweet |
| 20:04.59 | koen | mickeyl: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=192 |
| 20:05.00 | Matt_PI | they do matroska |
| 20:05.37 | thresh | i thought they closed tcpmp |
| 20:05.57 | SpeedEvil | bigbang14: hello - have a question? |
| 20:06.02 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178092014.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:06.07 | XorA | thresh: they did |
| 20:06.16 | XorA | thresh: but the GPL source still kicks about |
| 20:06.17 | bigbang14 | no not really |
| 20:06.47 | SpeedEvil | bigbang14: good idea to wander round wiki.openmoko.org if you haven't. |
| 20:06.57 | bigbang14 | i have |
| 20:07.47 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@213-202-136-59.bas502.dsl.esat.net) |
| 20:07.54 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. 26 in interested to buy list. |
| 20:08.26 | *** join/#openmoko berkes (n=beralt@89.98.69.232) |
| 20:08.50 | bigbang14 | i think this is an incredibly interesting project and if it had camera or even just wifi i might consider in investing in a later model (with internet browser) |
| 20:11.37 | bigbang14 | i suggested using EPD (maybe much later on) in the hardware wish list. if you've never heard of it i suggest you look it up. it had me entranced for hours thinking of the possibilities. |
| 20:11.59 | mickeyl | fluffs: your message has passed. put you on the always-pass list |
| 20:13.26 | bigbang14 | you can find out more about it at www.eink.com |
| 20:14.49 | bigbang14 | when is the release data for neo1973? is there a fixed one yet? |
| 20:15.09 | loufoque | bigbang14: how does EPD work with colors? |
| 20:16.24 | SpeedEvil | EPD? |
| 20:16.47 | koen | counter? |
| 20:16.47 | aloril | source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; a week, 5 days 15:43:12 (6.655 - 12.655 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, a week, 5 days (28.655 - 43.655 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, a week, 5 days (196.655 - 226.655 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (348) |
| 20:16.47 | dwery | electronic paper display |
| 20:16.50 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 20:16.55 | bigbang14 | loufoque: im not actualy sure but i guess it could be done with differnt cells (cant think what theyre called) |
| 20:17.02 | SpeedEvil | E-ink are bastards when it comes to actually getting them to commit. |
| 20:17.17 | SpeedEvil | That has horrible prolems. |
| 20:17.18 | bigbang14 | how so? |
| 20:17.39 | SpeedEvil | The nice thing with the black and white ones is that they are black and white, and don't need to be asccurately aligned over the pixels. |
| 20:17.59 | SpeedEvil | With coloured pixels, you need to accurately align thm, which is a real manufacturing headacjhe. |
| 20:18.19 | SpeedEvil | And it also makes the paper a third as birght, as much gets absorbed by the coloured filters. |
| 20:18.20 | bigbang14 | yes i can see how that would be a prob |
| 20:18.24 | SpeedEvil | afk- bath |
| 20:18.56 | bigbang14 | however it is very energy saving and easy to read off |
| 20:19.17 | bigbang14 | low power is good:) |
| 20:19.41 | jebba | ya, but no color is a bit more than just a small downside.... Plus it would have to integrate with a touchscreen as well.... |
| 20:19.47 | loufoque | what about LED? Shouldn't it use less power than TFT? |
| 20:20.28 | bigbang14 | you can get colour but its harder to manufacture |
| 20:21.22 | *** join/#openmoko CIA-7 (i=cia@cia.navi.cx) |
| 20:21.35 | mickeyl | welcome CIA-7 |
| 20:21.54 | bigbang14 | what does the wiki mean by widget? |
| 20:22.07 | mickeyl | see wikipedia -> widget |
| 20:22.20 | mickeyl | an artifial word |
| 20:22.20 | mickeyl | based on |
| 20:22.22 | mickeyl | window and gadget |
| 20:23.39 | bigbang14 | i meant in this particular context, how does openmoko use them? |
| 20:24.36 | mickeyl | well |
| 20:24.41 | mickeyl | common widgets define common look and feel |
| 20:24.54 | bigbang14 | hmm... |
| 20:24.58 | mickeyl | making applications more integrated and usability less prone to being a surprise |
| 20:25.17 | bigbang14 | ahh |
| 20:25.23 | bigbang14 | thankyou |
| 20:26.20 | bigbang14 | and the applications will run side by side with the widgets, exchanging info? |
| 20:26.44 | mickeyl | the applications are composed by widgets |
| 20:27.06 | mickeyl | composed out of widgets |
| 20:27.08 | mickeyl | not by |
| 20:27.25 | rwhitby | morning |
| 20:27.31 | mickeyl | see common look & feel for stylus apps as an example |
| 20:27.32 | mickeyl | morning rwhitby |
| 20:27.45 | bigbang14 | what makes the widgets so universal then? |
| 20:27.53 | rwhitby | overnight build fell over on openmoko-mainmenu :-( |
| 20:28.15 | koen | rwhitby: could you make your makefile parse the output of monotone --version and download the appropriate snapshot? |
| 20:28.26 | rwhitby | ozamosi: yes, the mokomakefile should build the kernel now |
| 20:28.46 | mickeyl | well, a widget is more than just an image. it comes with a programmatic class and a set of functions |
| 20:28.56 | koen | rwhitby: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=184 |
| 20:28.58 | mickeyl | we use the term widget slightly different from MacOS |
| 20:29.47 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=fader681@pool-70-17-125-151.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:30.11 | bigbang14 | i thought they where being used in a different way |
| 20:31.05 | loufoque | widgets exist in all GUI toolkits. |
| 20:31.59 | rwhitby | Hmm - LuitvD says he found an error 5 hours ago, but didn't identify what the error was. |
| 20:32.09 | bigbang14 | would gnome and KDE be GUI toolkits |
| 20:32.17 | LuitvD | rwhitby: lol, that's usefull... :P |
| 20:32.33 | LuitvD | rwhitby: I think I'll see the error again in about an hour |
| 20:32.36 | LuitvD | :P |
| 20:33.03 | jebba | hmm, i've had `mtn update` running for a couple hours or so now... wtf? |
| 20:33.15 | rwhitby | heh "make sense" - that's a good one. I just add that target for humour value :-) |
| 20:33.28 | kdean06 | I noticed that openmoko often mentioned "Free Software" rather than "Open Source". Can someone tell me a bit about the motivations behind the creation of the device? |
| 20:34.37 | bigbang14 | is it possible to run a kind of mock-up of openmoko on you PC (expecting answer to be no) |
| 20:34.50 | rwhitby | hey mickeyl (sorry for delayed response, was reading logs) |
| 20:35.24 | *** join/#openmoko Matt_PI_ (n=chatzill@209.198.66.141) |
| 20:36.00 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa (n=sajt@3e70cf46.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 20:36.42 | rwhitby | koen: thx for the openmoko-mainmenu patch - I'll look at that today a bit later (my wife's bday today, so not a lot of hacking time) |
| 20:37.08 | koen | rwhitby: congrats |
| 20:37.17 | LuitvD | congrats rwhitby |
| 20:37.21 | mickeyl | grats |
| 20:37.33 | rwhitby | thx |
| 20:37.47 | loufoque | that looks more like a hack than a patch |
| 20:38.35 | loufoque | kdean06: The definition of Open Source is slightly more restrictive than the one of Free Software. |
| 20:39.18 | aloril2 | vrwhitby: search for pastebin from day ago: I got this error with following instructions; then used make update-makefile; make update; make: again got same error; now I'm running from make from empty directroy (still going); Fedora5:haven't yet looked more |
| 20:40.55 | aloril2 | on what causes it (quick search from IRC logs, google, bugzilla, etc.. didn't give answer and haven't digged on it yet; maybe |
| 20:41.10 | kdean06 | loufoque, Oh, I understand that, and I'm a member of the Free Software crowd. :) I was wondering if OpenMoko utilizes open source code (like Motorola does) or if it's indeed a Free Software initiative, to produce a Freedom filled device. |
| 20:41.24 | *** join/#openmoko newmedian (n=newmedia@TOROON63-1168100004.sdsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:41.35 | rwhitby | aloril: do you have the pastebin URL handy? |
| 20:41.53 | loufoque | kdean06: I have no idea. Actually I don't understand all that very well myself. |
| 20:43.04 | kdean06 | Okay. The press release mentioned January 2007 as the ship date, has this happened? Am I able to purchase the phone in the US yet? |
| 20:43.39 | woglinde | kdean06 no |
| 20:44.00 | koen | counter? |
| 20:44.01 | aloril | source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; a week, 5 days 15:15:58 (6.636 - 12.636 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, a week, 5 days (28.636 - 43.636 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, a week, 5 days (196.636 - 226.636 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (349) |
| 20:44.10 | aloril2 | pjz already has solution : url by pjz: http://pastebin.ca/356360 |
| 20:44.22 | rob_w | rwhitby, what is the BBFILES according to your scripts and examples ? |
| 20:44.52 | rwhitby | rob_w, I have no scripts and examples. |
| 20:44.59 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@63.250.163.171) |
| 20:45.12 | rob_w | sorry i meant your makefile |
| 20:45.19 | rwhitby | I have a Makefile which codifies the existing page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch - that's all. |
| 20:45.20 | aloril2 | umm I mean I don't know if pjz has solution (in case somebody reads 2 previous lines from me separately) |
| 20:46.13 | koen | rwhitby: the mtn snapshots are version coded: http://www.openembedded.org/snapshots/ |
| 20:46.14 | rwhitby | aloril: that's the same openmoko-mainmenu error I get, and which koen has a patch to the .bb for. |
| 20:46.39 | rwhitby | koen: ok, I can get the Makefile to download the correct one based on that. thanks. |
| 20:47.08 | rwhitby | Hmm - no 0.31 though - can you put a symlink in that dir for 0.31 ? |
| 20:47.21 | aloril2 | rwhitby: yeah, I know and because I got this error by following it also, its of course no fault in Makefile; just fyi |
| 20:47.27 | koen | rwhitby: gives people a longer pull time, but avoids the 'no rpm/deb/tar for <foo> distro' |
| 20:47.35 | rwhitby | koen: agreed |
| 20:48.38 | rob_w | seems i cant get BBFILES setup up correctly to include openmoko/trunk/oe/packages/*/*.bb |
| 20:48.47 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=matrix@59.176.111.177) |
| 20:48.56 | rwhitby | pity mtn doesn't have a "mtn automate version" command to save me having to run awk ... |
| 20:50.15 | *** join/#openmoko kc_12645 (i=7aa7afb8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-6a2defec6f0d5ff5) |
| 20:50.15 | koen | rwhitby: symlinks present |
| 20:50.30 | rwhitby | koen: thx muchly |
| 20:50.38 | koen | np |
| 20:51.18 | aloril2 | rwhitby: if fully automatic fails too, nobody has found solution and I'm not 128x128 pixel limited I'l look into it |
| 20:51.26 | k-s | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:52.03 | thresh | 'le royal buffering' |
| 20:52.05 | leventhal | how do you say realmedia in french? |
| 20:52.16 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB3E959.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:52.16 | thresh | leventhal: you knew! |
| 20:53.21 | rwhitby | koen: mokomakefile updated to grab version specific OE database. |
| 20:53.52 | aloril2 | rwhitby: ah, OK there is already solution (sorry, should have checked on logs before continuing blabbing) |
| 20:54.19 | bigbang14 | is there an expected release date? |
| 20:54.29 | rwhitby | bigbang14: openmoko has already been released |
| 20:54.29 | koen | counter? |
| 20:54.29 | aloril | source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; a week, 5 days 15:05:30 (6.629 - 12.629 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, a week, 5 days (28.629 - 43.629 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, a week, 5 days (196.629 - 226.629 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (350) |
| 20:55.50 | rwhitby | bbiab - have to reboot |
| 20:56.27 | bigbang14 | sorry i meant neo1973 |
| 20:56.44 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1021 10/trunk/oe/README: oe: add README |
| 20:56.48 | mickeyl | yeha! |
| 20:56.52 | mickeyl | here we are :) |
| 20:57.54 | mickeyl | that was easier than i thought |
| 20:58.15 | mickeyl | http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/openmoko |
| 20:58.22 | jebba | is the plan to merge the openmoko svn straight into OE? |
| 20:58.35 | koen | jebba: it is already merged |
| 20:58.40 | koen | minus some small bits |
| 20:59.09 | mickeyl | jebba: we consider OE upstream. eventually we will maintain our recipes and configurations directly in OE |
| 20:59.33 | jebba | ah, because the "Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch" references the openmoko stuff. It will be great when it's all in once place (MHO....) |
| 21:00.06 | mickeyl | yes, but that's currently not the priority |
| 21:00.19 | mickeyl | we'll do that once phase1 has been started |
| 21:00.23 | jebba | koen, ya, like DISTRO=openmoko doesn't work with straight OE. ok, thx mickeyl |
| 21:01.05 | bigbang14 | are there other topics for openmoko? |
| 21:01.06 | koen | jebba: DISTRO=openmoko requires a hack to base.bbclass which I don't want to add (yet( |
| 21:01.41 | *** join/#openmoko vetetix (n=vetetix@248.27-218-195.adsl.internet.lu) |
| 21:02.03 | bigbang14 | are you able to change the kernel in openmoko? |
| 21:02.16 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 21:02.22 | bigbang14 | good |
| 21:02.27 | SpeedEvil | You can change almost everything. |
| 21:02.41 | SpeedEvil | With the current exception of the agpsd daemon. |
| 21:02.50 | bigbang14 | what cant you change? |
| 21:02.59 | SpeedEvil | ^ |
| 21:03.18 | bigbang14 | sorry, what does that do? |
| 21:03.29 | SpeedEvil | It outputs GPS positions. |
| 21:03.39 | SpeedEvil | There is little immediate need to change it though. |
| 21:03.48 | loufoque | can I use GPS for free? |
| 21:03.55 | koen | yes |
| 21:03.56 | loufoque | or do I need to subscribe to a service provider? |
| 21:04.02 | SpeedEvil | Yes, GPS is free. |
| 21:04.10 | SpeedEvil | See [[A-GPS]] on the wiki. |
| 21:04.45 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AGPS |
| 21:04.56 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 21:05.23 | SpeedEvil | With what external camera? :) |
| 21:05.50 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-008.eplus-online.de) |
| 21:05.55 | dwery | D80 :) |
| 21:06.25 | dwery | I have a little perl script wich takes a gps log and tag the photos based on timestamp |
| 21:07.23 | SpeedEvil | Nice. |
| 21:07.37 | SpeedEvil | And of course, you can add voice annotation, though I suppose the camera can do that. |
| 21:07.47 | dwery | tit works quite nicely.. but I have to carry a gps and a logger |
| 21:08.01 | dwery | dunno if D*0 has voice, I think it hasn't |
| 21:08.02 | rob_w | so for now i just setup a angstrom against fic-gta01 and build the openmoko apps , right ? |
| 21:08.02 | noidd | Ok, that was Job interview number 5 |
| 21:08.10 | noidd | on tuesday I have job interview #6 |
| 21:08.11 | rwhitby | hey dwery |
| 21:08.15 | noidd | this is getting ridiculous |
| 21:08.19 | dwery | rwhitby: hi ! |
| 21:08.20 | SpeedEvil | The one annoyance that I have about my current camera inthat way is that it has a limited 5 seconds at minimum sound clip, so you can't take lots of pics. |
| 21:08.22 | rwhitby | (dwery wrote the new RTC subsystem in the kernel) |
| 21:08.26 | SpeedEvil | noidd: Good luck. |
| 21:08.43 | noidd | thanks |
| 21:08.50 | noidd | over 5 hours of technical interview |
| 21:08.53 | noidd | insane. |
| 21:08.58 | noidd | anyone would think this was google. |
| 21:09.11 | dwery | SpeedEvil: my current camera ia a Nikon Coolpix 3700.. which has good voice clip capabilities, but would like to switch to a Nikon D80 soon |
| 21:09.45 | dwery | the D80 lacks gps input.. so I'll have to use the Neo ;) |
| 21:10.14 | *** join/#openmoko i386 (n=james@210.87.17.18) |
| 21:10.17 | dwery | it's always a risky business |
| 21:10.37 | dwery | I had to clean the lens of my Nikon LS200 scanner and it took me a couple of hours |
| 21:10.44 | dwery | s/200/2000/ |
| 21:10.55 | SpeedEvil | Cleaning is easy. |
| 21:11.12 | SpeedEvil | Taking apart a variable zoom minature lens with autofocus is a whole new level of fun. |
| 21:11.21 | SpeedEvil | If that's the scanner i think it is. |
| 21:11.45 | SpeedEvil | Oh - it's not. |
| 21:11.55 | SpeedEvil | Anyway - back to work. WAve. |
| 21:12.11 | dwery | me too ! |
| 21:12.15 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:13.06 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 21:14.46 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 21:15.12 | empty_mind | rwhitby, i am facing this error when using mokomakefile MISS NUDE GREAT PLAINS CONTEST |
| 21:15.14 | empty_mind | oops |
| 21:15.44 | empty_mind | sorry guys for the earlier post |
| 21:15.51 | empty_mind | hope you will not kick me |
| 21:15.59 | empty_mind | that was a mistake |
| 21:16.04 | empty_mind | rwhitby, http://pastebin.com/882394 |
| 21:16.10 | SpeedEvil | It is a rather unusual error though. |
| 21:16.19 | rwhitby | empty_mind: the makefile does lots of stuff, but won't help you win miss nude contest ... |
| 21:16.26 | rob_w | hehe |
| 21:16.34 | *** join/#openmoko mluser (n=mluser@ip68-0-79-59.tu.ok.cox.net) |
| 21:16.36 | empty_mind | rwhitby, i was reporting a spam |
| 21:16.57 | empty_mind | and klipper kept older copy of string than the latest copy |
| 21:17.25 | newmedian | is this what they mean when they refer to 'string theory' ? ;) |
| 21:17.27 | empty_mind | when you receive 120 spam messages you are supposed to be burnt |
| 21:17.29 | rob_w | aah feels good to delete some old oe tmp/`s , to clean up and restart freshly |
| 21:17.40 | empty_mind | newmedian, i hope so |
| 21:18.37 | empty_mind | rwhitby, even when i try to pull a latest copy from mtn problem is not solved |
| 21:19.51 | rwhitby | empty_mind: read step #1 of http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile again |
| 21:19.51 | rob_w | empty_mind, this version of monotone .. maybe try mtn-0.32 |
| 21:20.31 | *** join/#openmoko josua (n=josua@port813.ds1-soeb.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 21:22.03 | rwhitby | empty_mind: or "make update-makefile ; rm OE.mtn* ; make setup" |
| 21:22.03 | empty_mind | rwhitby, yup i read it and setup the environ as per instruction for denian |
| 21:22.15 | empty_mind | s/denian/debian |
| 21:22.28 | rwhitby | the makefile now downloads the correctly versioned OE database |
| 21:22.34 | empty_mind | rwhitby, has it to something with me using debian testing |
| 21:23.24 | *** join/#openmoko ml8128 (n=ml8128@75.161.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 21:23.26 | *** join/#openmoko jiffyjeff (n=JJacobs@64.128.15.226) |
| 21:23.48 | rob_w | ahh freed more then 13GB ,, |
| 21:24.15 | empty_mind | rwhitby, done. make is now downloading new dn, lets see |
| 21:24.23 | empty_mind | congrats rob_w |
| 21:24.25 | *** part/#openmoko josua (n=josua@port813.ds1-soeb.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 21:25.28 | *** join/#openmoko xkr47^ (i=xkr47@2001:14b8:141:5926:5358:9793:2384:6264) |
| 21:27.36 | *** join/#openmoko ciastek (n=ciastek@procent.miedzylesie.waw.pl) |
| 21:40.21 | *** join/#openmoko shipman (n=jon@150.243.202.72) |
| 21:45.26 | *** join/#openmoko Laibsch (n=Laibsch@p4020-ipbf2103marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 21:50.40 | jebba | The BCM2153 (broadcom) looks pretty interesting, ARM, HSDPA/EDGE/GPRS/GSM, multimedia goo (including camera support), video accelleration, USB 2, SDIO. They are hyping linux support in a press release too. Usually they've been not-so-supportive of linux. |
| 21:51.58 | woglinde | jebba -> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8890352981.html with java-co-prozessor |
| 21:52.14 | koen | jebba: broadcom donates hardware from time to time, but they aren't giving out docs or stuff |
| 21:52.34 | koen | woglinde: jazelle is quite old |
| 21:52.50 | koen | nearly all arm926 cores have it |
| 21:53.05 | *** join/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:54.05 | woglinde | koen oh didnt knowe |
| 21:54.15 | koen | woglinde: no linux support though |
| 21:54.23 | koen | woglinde: you need to pay $$$$$$$$ to ARM to get docs |
| 21:54.25 | woglinde | koen hm I see |
| 21:55.07 | koen | maybe only $$$$$ |
| 21:55.44 | empty_mind | just curios, ho thought of the name openmoko? |
| 21:55.59 | newmedian | openmojo was probably taken ;) |
| 21:56.15 | koen | as was a decent spell checker |
| 21:57.44 | kimuSan^ | jebba: what special about the brcm one? doesn't it look pretty much like all other such bundles? |
| 22:00.57 | kimuSan^ | the ones from samsung are pretty decent |
| 22:02.29 | *** join/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 22:02.49 | *** join/#openmoko n (n=n@84.52.177.157) |
| 22:03.06 | jebba | kimuSan^, just pointing it out as i came across the release. Seems to have lots of the features needed for openmoko, thats all :) |
| 22:04.23 | kimuSan^ | jebba: ok. |
| 22:06.15 | Stephmw | theirs or yours? :) |
| 22:07.08 | kimuSan^ | both I guess....or maybe their lack of professionalism. |
| 22:08.32 | *** part/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:13.44 | rwhitby | aloril: openmoko-mainmenu fixed - update makefile, make setup, rebuild |
| 22:13.59 | fluffs | although my back is going to complain for the rest of the evening |
| 22:19.53 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 22:21.59 | *** join/#openmoko apardo (n=apardo@87.217.144.228) |
| 22:23.35 | empty_mind | rwhitby, no luck after make update-makefile. I receive this error "mtn: misuse: no such revision 'f499733e6db527846e1a48cf70f9862d6b3798ae'" . |
| 22:24.20 | koen | rwhitby: does the makefile do an mtn pull? |
| 22:24.39 | empty_mind | rwhitby, which revision of db should i pull ? |
| 22:25.06 | empty_mind | koen, yes it does, thats what i was trying to point to you earlier |
| 22:25.30 | rwhitby | empty_mind: rm -rf openembedded ; make setup |
| 22:25.53 | rwhitby | empty_mind: and read the monotone manual too, else no more answers. |
| 22:26.58 | empty_mind | rwhitby, there is no openembedded dir created yet ? else i would have removed it before starting the pull |
| 22:27.24 | rwhitby | empty_mind: make updat |
| 22:27.29 | rwhitby | update |
| 22:28.29 | rwhitby | koen: I've added a pull to the setup for this case |
| 22:32.09 | rwhitby | mokomakefile build contines onto openmoko-session and beyond ... |
| 22:33.11 | koen | rwhitby: you might encounter http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=183 |
| 22:33.34 | rwhitby | thx for the heads-up |
| 22:36.02 | koen | iirc the other bugs are fixed someway or another in moko svn |
| 22:36.19 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@146-115-126-156.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 22:36.19 | *** join/#openmoko shipman (n=jon@24-116-11-155.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 22:39.24 | *** join/#openmoko accumulator (n=accu@82-170-119-175.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl) |
| 22:42.28 | accumulator | hello |
| 22:44.07 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:45.02 | *** join/#openmoko kninja (n=kninja@doc-72-47-7-83.whitehall.ar.cebridge.net) |
| 22:46.02 | accumulator | do I need qemu 0.9.0 to boot the gta01 kernel? |
| 22:48.58 | *** part/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@213-202-136-59.bas502.dsl.esat.net) |
| 22:52.13 | rwhitby | koen: added the simple-mediaplayer fix to mokomakefile |
| 22:52.44 | koen | you hit the bug? |
| 22:52.52 | rwhitby | not yet. |
| 22:55.00 | rwhitby | figured I'd do a pre-emptive strike. |
| 22:58.50 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 22:59.06 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1022 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (24 files): |
| 22:59.06 | CIA-7 | openmoko: major restructuring of u-boot quilt patches, make them ready |
| 22:59.06 | CIA-7 | openmoko: for upstream submission. |
| 22:59.06 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * merge all GTA01 revisions into one big Neo1973 patch |
| 22:59.06 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * merge jbt6k74 and pcf50606 drivers into Neo1973 patch |
| 22:59.07 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * reorder patches to a more logical (rather devel history) order |
| 23:00.57 | rwhitby | ah, good, CIA-7 is here. |
| 23:01.20 | *** join/#openmoko wbx_ (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-008.eplus-online.de) |
| 23:02.14 | *** join/#openmoko epsino (n=epsino@161-250.dedicado.com.uy) |
| 23:02.24 | rwhitby | koen: I get a failure in openmoko-dialer now ... |
| 23:02.30 | epsino | hello ! |
| 23:02.54 | accumulator | can someone help me with qemu+moko? |
| 23:02.58 | epsino | any body knows why neo 1973 phone has not coming with edge ? |
| 23:03.31 | koen | rwhitby: no idea on that |
| 23:03.46 | rwhitby | koen: np, thx - I'll look at it tonight or tomorrow. |
| 23:04.05 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p549BE2CA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:05.16 | *** join/#openmoko dyrne (i=pike@server1.freeshells.ch) |
| 23:05.37 | denis^da | good evening |
| 23:05.40 | denis^da | guys |
| 23:05.54 | accumulator | evening |
| 23:05.55 | rwhitby | http://rafb.net/p/sOfOTf70.html if anyone else is interested in the problem. |
| 23:06.19 | koen | rwhitby: eds-dbus was already built? |
| 23:06.43 | rwhitby | nope |
| 23:07.57 | accumulator | I should be able to boot a virtual/kernel image produced by bitbake with qemu-system-arm, right? |
| 23:09.01 | aevin | cia-7 is a commit log relay? |
| 23:09.04 | koen | accumulator: no |
| 23:09.06 | koen | aevin: yes |
| 23:09.22 | aevin | handy :) |
| 23:09.45 | epsino | exists a video presentation of the phone ? |
| 23:10.02 | koen | epsino: no, since it hasn't been released yet |
| 23:10.25 | woglinde | hm |
| 23:10.26 | accumulator | koen: any pointers? |
| 23:10.27 | aevin | epsino: but you have seen the photos? |
| 23:10.30 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1023 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (env_nand_oob.patch series uboot-20061030-neo1973.patch): reorder patches to facilitate easier submission |
| 23:10.32 | woglinde | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:10.36 | woglinde | ups |
| 23:10.36 | epsino | yes, i saw |
| 23:11.53 | epsino | why not edge ? |
| 23:11.57 | rwhitby | koen: do you know which package provides libebook? |
| 23:12.01 | koen | rwhitby: OE has a fix now for openmoko-dialer |
| 23:12.06 | koen | rwhitby: yes, eds-dbus |
| 23:13.30 | rwhitby | koen: thx, looking ... |
| 23:20.02 | *** part/#openmoko Laibsch (n=Laibsch@p4020-ipbf2103marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 23:20.12 | rwhitby | hmm - LaF0rge's patches to u-boot break the documented build procedure :-( (not his fault, the procedure is just brittle) |
| 23:20.38 | koen | it has a documented build procedure? |
| 23:20.39 | koen | wow |
| 23:20.56 | koen | bleh |
| 23:20.59 | rwhitby | koen: the FIC openmoko build procedure, not the u-boot build procedure. |
| 23:21.18 | koen | I don't wanna make a patch to clean up u-boot in OE |
| 23:21.44 | *** join/#openmoko epsino (n=epsino@161-250.dedicado.com.uy) |
| 23:21.59 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@222-155-217-62.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 23:22.21 | *** join/#openmoko dyrne (i=pike@server1.freeshells.ch) |
| 23:22.33 | koen | rwhitby: you can't :( |
| 23:22.43 | koen | rwhitby: not without changing the kernel recipes |
| 23:22.44 | epsino | any body know if exists a qemu image to run the software with this emulator ? |
| 23:23.11 | koen | epsino: why run it in qemu? |
| 23:23.36 | *** join/#openmoko amitg (n=gud@n119.user.cis.ksu.edu) |
| 23:23.42 | koen | it will display the same window as building it natively and using Xnest/Xephyr |
| 23:23.44 | epsino | in order to view the software running |
| 23:24.01 | koen | [00:23] koen: it will display the same window as building it natively and using Xnest/Xephyr |
| 23:24.32 | epsino | koen, exists another alternative ? |
| 23:24.56 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet (n=sixfeet@p5484D683.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:27.38 | jebba | so you just `MACHINE = "x86"` and run it in xoo (Xnest/Xephyr), if i'm understanding him correctly. Though directly in qemu would be cool so you wouldn't have to do two builds of everything. |
| 23:27.54 | accumulator | exactly |
| 23:33.18 | jebba | hmm, so close: |
| 23:33.23 | jebba | nand_read.c:57: error: ‘NAND_PAGE_SIZE’ undeclared (first use in this function) |
| 23:33.42 | jebba | i built a bunch of .ipk fine, but died building uboot... |
| 23:34.55 | jebba | perhaps `mtn update` was the cause though... |
| 23:37.22 | sixfeet | ^^ |
| 23:37.54 | *** part/#openmoko shipman (n=jon@24-116-11-155.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 23:39.03 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD[foo] (n=LuitvD@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 23:39.07 | LuitvD[foo] | hmm... |
| 23:39.18 | *** part/#openmoko paravoid (n=paravoid@zebra.cslab.ece.ntua.gr) |
| 23:39.27 | LuitvD | :) that's better |
| 23:40.14 | denis^da | LuitvD, GOOD evening :> |
| 23:40.36 | LuitvD | guten nacht denis^da |
| 23:40.38 | denis^da | haha you won't get rid of me ;) |
| 23:40.55 | denis^da | LuitvD, cmon it is 1 am ;) |
| 23:41.17 | LuitvD | so? that's "night" :P |
| 23:41.49 | fluffs | argh |
| 23:41.54 | fluffs | something in my network has gone phut |
| 23:42.07 | *** join/#openmoko lnostdal (n=lars@217-176-59.0511.adsl.tele2.no) |
| 23:42.09 | LuitvD | fluffs: don't get me started about mine :P |
| 23:42.35 | lnostdal | didn't know about this project .. very interesting stuff! :) |
| 23:42.41 | lnostdal | hi by the way .... :) |
| 23:42.47 | sixfeet | auch guten abend .. oder besser morgen ;) |
| 23:42.47 | LuitvD | lnostdal: hello there... |
| 23:42.48 | LuitvD | :P |
| 23:43.41 | LuitvD | sixfeet: guten morgen... also... mehr deutsche leuten hier? |
| 23:43.44 | LuitvD | :P |
| 23:43.58 | sixfeet | klaro ... wer pro-linux liest |
| 23:44.08 | LuitvD | :) |
| 23:44.13 | sixfeet | kommen ja immer mehr news vom moko |
| 23:44.40 | sixfeet | und ich brauch nen neues tel *g* |
| 23:44.40 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-177-093.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:44.40 | LuitvD | ich habe 's gesehn aufs wiki |
| 23:44.52 | sixfeet | hehe |
| 23:45.16 | LuitvD | (und mein deutsch ist sonst schechter als mein english) |
| 23:45.24 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 23:45.34 | sixfeet | denke v2 wird zwar erst die features haben |
| 23:45.39 | jebba | it appears somehow this patch didn't get applied: s3c2410-nand_badblock_skip.patch |
| 23:45.50 | sixfeet | LuitvD, were do u are? |
| 23:46.06 | sixfeet | nl? |
| 23:46.14 | LuitvD | sixfeet: yup, utrecht, the netherlands |
| 23:46.34 | sixfeet | hehe n1 my fav vacation-land |
| 23:46.44 | LuitvD | sixfeet: how come? |
| 23:46.53 | sixfeet | de |
| 23:47.10 | sixfeet | nähe hannover |
| 23:47.19 | LuitvD | sixfeet: how come the netherlands is your no 1 vacation land? |
| 23:47.27 | LuitvD | what's so special about it? :P |
| 23:47.30 | parag0n | drugs |
| 23:47.43 | LuitvD | parag0n: good guess... |
| 23:47.53 | LuitvD | parag0n: that'd be your excuse right? :P |
| 23:47.59 | sixfeet | LuitvD, go by car and about 3 hrs i can see the beach |
| 23:48.15 | sixfeet | not so far .. and camping rulez |
| 23:48.38 | LuitvD | sixfeet: you german got enough beach in your own country... why go to the netherlands for that? :P |
| 23:48.48 | sixfeet | i like the people |
| 23:48.53 | parag0n | nah, i'm clean |
| 23:49.13 | LuitvD | parag0n: so the dykes would be your excuse? :P |
| 23:49.23 | sixfeet | LuitvD, my hobby is biken .. and so yours is my fav land |
| 23:49.45 | sixfeet | i go by bike every way if i'm there |
| 23:49.50 | LuitvD | parag0n: I hate drugs other then alcohol :) I'm glad dutch people can drink at the age of 16 :) |
| 23:50.05 | thresh | too bad it's too cold to ride bike atm here |
| 23:50.11 | parag0n | i dont drink either |
| 23:50.34 | fluffs | bah, one of the switch ports on the 8port is dead |
| 23:50.43 | LuitvD | sixfeet: ah... if I'd want to go mountainbiking I'd go to either belgium or germany :P |
| 23:51.07 | sixfeet | ok nl is not god 4 downhill *ggg* |
| 23:51.08 | LuitvD | fluffs: how on earth can you get that to happen? :P |
| 23:51.12 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1024 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (6 files): Get rid of the 2617-backport-to-2620 for s3c2410fb (thanks to Ben Dooks and Arnaud Patard) |
| 23:51.15 | sixfeet | +o |
| 23:51.36 | LuitvD | sixfeet: indeed |
| 23:52.12 | LuitvD | parag0n: you don't drink? :| |
| 23:52.14 | sixfeet | LuitvD, try biking at the gardasee |
| 23:52.28 | *** join/#openmoko Mafia[] (n=Mafia@80.239.71.13) |
| 23:52.35 | LuitvD | sixfeet: I fucked up my bike lately... :P |
| 23:52.41 | sixfeet | hehe |
| 23:53.14 | thresh | me too : made singlespeed :/ |
| 23:53.34 | sixfeet | This is kernel package version 10.066. |
| 23:55.03 | LuitvD | being able to read german sometimes proves handy... |
| 23:55.23 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 23:55.44 | sixfeet | proves handy? |
| 23:55.53 | lnostdal | err .. ups |
| 23:56.06 | LuitvD | sixfeet: it's sometimes quite usefull... |
| 23:56.19 | denis^da | I would say everyone who buys a V1 handy should get the V2 for free :D |
| 23:56.21 | sixfeet | hmm ok |
| 23:56.41 | LuitvD | OMFG, heise.de calls Moss-Pultz a cheerleader? :S |
| 23:56.48 | denis^da | haha :> |
| 23:56.54 | sixfeet | gg |
| 23:57.01 | denis^da | yeah cheerleader of open source :D |
| 23:57.16 | LuitvD | denis^da: lol, that's absurd :P |
| 23:57.31 | denis^da | LuitvD, it is :P |
| 23:58.39 | sixfeet | linux-image-2.6.20-rc7_siX1_i386.deb |
| 23:58.49 | denis^da | LuitvD, I would prefer a Neo that is a bit thinner (DÃœNNER :D) and the width could b less ;> |
| 23:58.54 | sixfeet | huh |
| 23:59.22 | LuitvD | denis^da: mhh, the thickness is fine I guess... and why do you want it less wide? |
| 23:59.38 | LuitvD | denis^da: you won't have 480x640 for nothing :P |
| 23:59.44 | denis^da | hmm ok the wideness is because of my pocket |
| 23:59.45 | denis^da | :> |
| 23:59.52 | sixfeet | big display for gps |
| 23:59.58 | denis^da | thickness is op |
