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| 10:54.45 | koen | OMG!!! Java!!!! |
| 10:54.47 | koen | LOL!!!! |
| 11:11.44 | buz | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:12.11 | sannes | why any programming language at all really, what do you think 0 and 1 are for.. doooh :D |
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| 11:36.00 | xkr47 | koen, how come the sudden outburst ?-) you read the scrollback ?-) |
| 11:36.36 | koen | no |
| 11:36.45 | koen | I just read a mail on the mailinglist |
| 11:37.02 | koen | "And it has started GPLizing from the J2ME. |
| 11:37.02 | koen | So, for everyone interested it should be easy to compile it for the OpenMoko." |
| 11:37.31 | koen | which tranlates to "OMG!!! Java!!! LOL!!!!" |
| 11:45.50 | xkr47 | :) |
| 11:47.27 | xkr47 | oh my, are the .bb files gentoo-alike or what :) |
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| 11:48.45 | esden | why java or ruby ... I want lisp! |
| 11:48.57 | koen | in a deep dark past OE was portage based |
| 11:49.07 | koen | but that was fixed long ago :) |
| 11:50.07 | sannes | I'm quite new to this, what is OE ? Open Embedded? (guessing wildly) |
| 11:50.34 | koen | sannes: correct |
| 11:50.46 | koen | ~OE |
| 11:50.50 | apt | rumour has it, oe is OpenEmbedded (see http://www.openembedded.org ), or "Opportunistic Encryption" (see http://www.wavesec.org ), or an email client which is not to be spoken of. |
| 11:52.36 | sannes | ~BP |
| 11:52.37 | apt | methinks bp is pb backwards |
| 11:53.50 | koen | ~java |
| 11:53.51 | apt | hmm... java is at (Link: http://www.blackdown.org)http://www.blackdown.org or at (Link: http://www.javasoft.com)http://www.javasoft.com or at (Link: http://www.savaje.com)http://www.savaje.com or at (Link: http://www.pocketlinux.com)http://www.pocketlinux.com or at (Link: http://java.sun.com)http://java.sun.com or at http://www.insignia.com, or see the "mpkg-j2se" ... |
| 11:54.50 | esden | ~lisp |
| 11:54.51 | apt | [lisp] a theory that unexpectedly became a programming language http://paulgraham.com/icad.html |
| 11:55.02 | xkr47 | ~enough |
| 11:55.03 | apt | Well, have you had enough fun fondling with my database |
| 11:55.05 | esden | nice definition |
| 11:56.00 | koen | ~botsnack |
| 11:56.00 | apt | koen: thanks |
| 11:56.21 | sannes | What does BP mean in http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-December/000892.html ? |
| 11:56.40 | koen | Baseband Processor |
| 11:56.51 | koen | the thing the gsm stack runs on |
| 11:58.24 | sannes | ah :) |
| 11:58.43 | koen | and AP is application processor |
| 11:58.53 | koen | where the gui runs on |
| 11:59.09 | koen | on the neo1973 the AP and BP communicate over a serial line |
| 12:00.08 | sannes | so it boots off the AP then I presume? |
| 12:02.04 | koen | sort off |
| 12:02.17 | koen | it's like 2 seperate computers with a nullmodem cable |
| 12:02.52 | sannes | From what I've seen on the list and here, it hasn't been decided yet if there is going to be BT on the first revision of neo1973 .. but they say that it is probably going to be out in January, .. does that mean the hardware isn't really ready yet and there will be lots of delays? |
| 12:04.07 | sannes | koen: so they can't interrupt eachother or rather they can ignore interrupts from their serial line .. |
| 12:04.07 | koen | It seems that they have some bugs in the bluetooth hardware and haven't decided whether to enable it or not |
| 12:04.52 | sannes | they could keep it disabled per default and let other people enable it easily, that would have been nice .. if you can work around the bugs you can use bluetooth if not .. it was never really there.. :P |
| 12:06.33 | sannes | I'm getting it either way though .. I have waited for something like this for a long time :P |
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| 13:36.45 | hrw | ~seen [g2] |
| 13:37.13 | apt | [g2] <n=g2@nslu2-linux/g2> was last seen on IRC in channel #nslu2-linux, 11h 4m 52s ago, saying: 'rwhitby optware looks like it's building crosstool and the old 2.4.22 kernel '. |
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| 16:13.10 | Flusher | hi |
| 16:13.18 | Flusher | what is this project please ? |
| 16:15.21 | mjr | see url in topic; a Linux-based smartphone OS for, among the first, the Neo smartphone due in January |
| 16:20.38 | koen | see topic |
| 16:30.02 | chihchun | does anyone here have a engineering sample of the Neo ? |
| 16:30.52 | gamin | chihchun: FIC does have ;) |
| 16:31.51 | chihchun | gamin: ha |
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| 16:32.59 | mjr | shouldn't be too long now before we can all get our "samples" |
| 16:42.02 | buz | gamin: at least we hope that they do |
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| 18:37.15 | yacc | Still no date when the phones will be available, ... |
| 18:39.47 | xorAxAx | not in jan., lets make up a bet |
| 18:40.26 | buz | not taking preorders seems downright stupid |
| 18:40.29 | buz | thats like free money |
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| 18:42.06 | xorAxAx | you need an infrastructure for that |
| 18:42.11 | xorAxAx | i still havent found it :) |
| 18:42.26 | xorAxAx | its more than dispatching parcels |
| 18:42.34 | buz | companies generally have infrastructure for taking payments |
| 18:42.43 | xorAxAx | its more than taking payments |
| 18:42.49 | buz | preorders? |
| 18:42.52 | buz | not much more really |
| 18:43.30 | xorAxAx | dont forget requests for payment or complaints |
| 18:43.35 | buz | heck you could even outsource it trivially |
| 18:44.09 | timtimred | but the product/development costs might rise, and need compensating for ;) |
| 18:44.10 | xorAxAx | yes, they dont seem to have such a partnership besides normal complainthandling for broken hardware (with labs) |
| 18:44.22 | buz | the fact that we cant preorder doesnt really bode well for a january release in my view |
| 18:45.06 | buz | does fic actually sell phones these days |
| 18:45.51 | buz | looks like it |
| 18:46.42 | yacc | Well, it's not January yet. |
| 18:46.43 | yacc | ;) |
| 18:47.05 | xorAxAx | buz: hmm, they do? |
| 18:47.10 | buz | http://www.fic.com.tw/product/mbp.htm |
| 18:47.10 | xorAxAx | b2c? |
| 18:47.18 | buz | dont think b2c |
| 18:47.24 | xorAxAx | exactly, thats the point :) |
| 18:47.31 | buz | but one even has a cam ;) |
| 18:48.56 | yacc | buz: cams as such are not really a feature. Good cams are a feature. |
| 18:49.05 | buz | thats true |
| 18:49.08 | buz | and they are hard |
| 18:49.12 | buz | witness htc |
| 18:49.29 | buz | i'd say only sony and nokia actually have good cams |
| 18:49.47 | timtimred | and loads of the sony ones suck too. |
| 18:49.57 | buz | yeah but they have a few good ones |
| 18:49.58 | timtimred | the k800i one is much better though |
| 18:50.09 | buz | the n95 one is supposedly superb |
| 18:50.10 | timtimred | by orders of magnitude |
| 18:50.32 | buz | then again, n95 will likely retail at 900USD or so |
| 18:51.00 | timtimred | doh. my k800i was free with the yearly contract |
| 18:51.18 | buz | that must be one expensive contract |
| 18:51.47 | timtimred | mid range one. |
| 18:51.59 | buz | the k800 is quite expensive on its own |
| 18:52.49 | timtimred | well £30 a month buys all my calls and gets me a new handset every year |
| 18:53.05 | buz | i'd call 30£ quite expensive ;) |
| 18:53.14 | xorAxAx | 20 EUR? |
| 18:53.24 | buz | more like 40 |
| 18:53.35 | xorAxAx | hmm, right |
| 18:53.44 | xorAxAx | confusing chf and lbp |
| 18:53.54 | xorAxAx | gbp |
| 18:54.12 | timtimred | kinda. but then the handset would be £300 new probably. |
| 18:54.16 | xorAxAx | flatrate? |
| 18:54.23 | buz | something in that area yes |
| 18:55.16 | buz | i generally prefer to pay for my phones myself |
| 18:55.48 | timtimred | i sell my year old phones on every year on ebay hehe |
| 18:55.58 | chihchun | asus p535 has a good cam too. |
| 18:56.14 | buz | really? wouldnt have thought there are winmobile phones with good cams |
| 18:56.58 | chihchun | the cam of p535 is the best one I have saw. |
| 18:57.06 | chihchun | in winmobile phones. |
| 18:57.15 | buz | thats not saying much ;= |
| 18:57.16 | buz | ) |
| 18:57.26 | buz | the one eyed is king of the blind people after all |
| 18:58.10 | chihchun | the cam has a AF function and 2m pixels cmos |
| 18:59.02 | chihchun | I almost have every winmobile devices manufactured by Taiwanese company. |
| 18:59.12 | buz | why |
| 18:59.34 | chihchun | I work for a software company which do software for mobile phones. |
| 18:59.38 | buz | ah ok |
| 18:59.42 | buz | must be quite a lot |
| 18:59.50 | buz | considering htc is taiwanese |
| 19:00.23 | chihchun | almost every handset manufacturing companies have winmobile products. |
| 19:00.56 | buz | except nokia i believe |
| 19:01.04 | hrw | I have SE k750i and fic phone will be 2nd class one |
| 19:01.21 | chihchun | but most of them are using cheap camera components. |
| 19:01.26 | buz | im looking to replace my half dead SE p900 really |
| 19:01.53 | buz | might still get suckered into buying some nokia e series thoug |
| 19:03.35 | chihchun | I want a phone that I can do my own os and software from scratch. |
| 19:04.03 | buz | the neo is perfect for that |
| 19:04.25 | chihchun | yes, and it's full gpl. :D |
| 19:11.12 | koen | ~change 30 gbp to eur |
| 19:12.04 | yacc | chihchun: only problem currently => it' not yet available. |
| 19:12.17 | chihchun | yacc: ha |
| 19:18.46 | noidd | yacc: my treo 650 is near death too. It loses charge in about 6 hours :-P |
| 19:20.04 | yacc | Well, my Treo 270 died over an year ago => the SIM card holder stopped working => no SIM => it turned into an Ebook reader for some time, and then got trashed ;) |
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| 21:03.12 | ruskie | yacc, it never hurts to try... :) |
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| 21:42.58 | jpierre | hello |
| 21:43.19 | jpierre | does anyone know how can I buy the Neo1973 phone when it becomes available in January? |
| 21:43.30 | buz | directly from fic |
| 21:43.48 | *** topic/#openmoko by buz -> OpenMoko Developer Lounge | http://www.openmoko.com | http://lists.openmoko.org | ETA: January 2007 | It will be sold directly through FIC |
| 21:43.48 | *** topic/#openmoko by ChanServ -> OpenMoko Developer Lounge | http://www.openmoko.com | http://lists.openmoko.org | ETA: January 2007 |
| 21:43.54 | buz | stupid bot |
| 21:44.40 | Stephmw | get a chan op to chat to chanserv :) |
| 21:44.45 | jpierre | buz: thanks, will they deliver overseas?, I'm in Venezuela |
| 21:44.49 | Stephmw | as it's got topic protection on |
| 21:45.20 | hrw | jpierre: they should |
| 21:46.29 | jpierre | hrw: thanks, I'm an open source advocate here and I plan to get one unit for testing and then get about half a dozen for LUG VIPs here |
| 21:46.56 | hrw | jpierre: I'm waiting for developer discount |
| 21:47.12 | jpierre | hrw: :-) it's not too expensive though |
| 21:47.59 | hrw | jpierre: depends how much you earn each month |
| 21:48.26 | jpierre | hrw: of course |
| 21:48.34 | jpierre | hrw: where are you living? |
| 21:48.40 | hrw | Poland, Europe |
| 21:49.19 | jpierre | hrw: is that a developing country? |
| 21:50.31 | hrw | jpierre: I'm one of core OpenEmbedded developers. FIC phone software comes from this environment. |
| 21:51.08 | jpierre | hrw: cool!, so basically you are one of the people who started all this |
| 21:51.36 | hrw | OE? |
| 21:51.46 | xorAxAx | "hrw: is that a developing country?" is a funny question :) |
| 21:52.06 | jpierre | hrw: the OpenMoko platform |
| 21:52.25 | hrw | jpierre: no. I do not have anything common with OpenMoko platform (yet) |
| 21:52.34 | jpierre | xorAxAx: don't know about Poland much |
| 21:55.10 | jpierre | hrw: I see |
| 22:00.34 | yacc | jpierre: Poland is one of the new member states of the EU, but AFAIK (I'm not that often in Poland I admit), people tend still to earn less than in most "old" EU members. |
| 22:01.20 | jpierre | yacc: so people still earn less than in, let's say: Spain or Italy, that's bad enough |
| 22:02.57 | yacc | jpierre: guess so. |
| 22:03.24 | yacc | jpierre: But it seems to depend strongly on personal circumstances and the location inside Poland. |
| 22:04.41 | jpierre | yacc: I asked because I live in Venezuela, which is pretty much underdeveloped, and the Neo1973 doesn't seem too expensive to me, I guessed anyone in Europe could do better than I could here |
| 22:04.56 | *** join/#openmoko rolando-ve (n=rolando-@200.82.219.20) |
| 22:05.01 | rolando-ve | Hi |
| 22:05.32 | yacc | E.g. we (the customer I'm working for) had a software developer that was bragging that he earns so much. (Eastern Poland, USD2K/month). I know enough people in Poland (southern and central), that earn way more and partially even more than me. |
| 22:05.44 | rolando-ve | I just wanna do a question |
| 22:06.12 | rolando-ve | If any one can answer me, I'll be glad |
| 22:06.42 | yacc | An invasion from Venezuela? |
| 22:06.51 | jpierre | yacc: I see, it's about the same as in Spain, a little better than most people here |
| 22:07.14 | yacc | jpierre: Well, the question is on which end of the spectrum are you located? |
| 22:07.16 | jpierre | yacc: LOL, that's a friend of mine, another Linux sysadmin and open source advocate |
| 22:08.05 | rolando-ve | well, Looking the OpenMoko I think that maybe, the distro used by it, cam be changed to do a replace to the WinMobile that use my HTC6700 APACHE and finally forget the Hasefroch |
| 22:08.32 | jpierre | yacc: sure, it's about the same here, if you're in the low end you get to earn less than 500 USD a month |
| 22:08.34 | yacc | rolando-ve: Don't think so. Not without loosing much much functionality and supported hardware. |
| 22:08.48 | hrw | rolando-ve: there are people which work on Linux for HTC phones. Some of them will work on getting openmoko running on them |
| 22:09.02 | yacc | There is Linux for HTC phones? |
| 22:09.10 | hrw | rolando-ve: but do not know when HTC phones will be phones under linux |
| 22:09.13 | hrw | yacc: yes |
| 22:09.16 | rolando-ve | But the project is not running :( |
| 22:09.23 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 22:09.32 | jpierre | hrw: nice thing the OpenMoko platform could be ported like any other Linux platform, the problem will be to adapt it to the different resolutions and input methods of the different devices |
| 22:09.54 | rolando-ve | Well then I need to send my HTC in eBay :P |
| 22:09.56 | hrw | jpierre: ported? compiled rather |
| 22:10.01 | yacc | hrw: url? googling for HTC smartphone linux gives only reports about the FIC one ;) |
| 22:10.08 | rolando-ve | send=sell |
| 22:10.23 | hrw | yacc: handhelds.org -> wiki -> supported summary -> htc |
| 22:10.26 | jpierre | rolando-ve: currently, the OpenMoko platform doesn't run on your phone |
| 22:11.15 | yacc | hrw: I've been payed quite well to port some "simple" C programs (actually CGI scripts in C) from HP-UX to Linux. And it was hard work :( |
| 22:11.33 | rolando-ve | Thanks Jpierre ;) |
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| 22:11.40 | jpierre | hrw: I mean porting it to run on other phones, it could mean a little more work than just compiling it, I think |
| 22:11.51 | hrw | sure |
| 22:12.29 | jpierre | yacc: I could think that porting this little programs wouldn't be so hard between these two very similar platforms |
| 22:12.54 | yacc | jpierre: Well, nice portable C code: if (*x && x) ... |
| 22:12.56 | jpierre | yacc: but I'm no C programmer :-P |
| 22:13.10 | jpierre | yacc: I only know a little bit of C programming |
| 22:13.29 | yacc | Works like a charm on HPUX (which has a mapped null page containing \000 ;) |
| 22:13.33 | xorAxAx | yacc: haha, wrong way around :) |
| 22:13.49 | xorAxAx | hey, good idea, to have it like that :) |
| 22:13.52 | jpierre | yacc: that line doesn't look nice at all |
| 22:13.59 | xorAxAx | no more null pointer derefs |
| 22:14.21 | yacc | Let's say, the inhouse developers of this very security sensitive piece of sh*t had problems understanding sensible C practice. |
| 22:14.59 | jpierre | yacc: sure, monkeys at the keyboard |
| 22:15.39 | yacc | E.g. putting booleans into a bitmap struct, and than doing pointer casting to compare it with different integer values to check for certain boolean combinations. Very good, very portable, even better for my personal income ;) |
| 22:16.20 | yacc | When I found it the first time, the explanation was it is "legacy code". So I explained the problems, and 3 months, I found the same bug in a completly fresh module, ... |
| 22:18.20 | jpierre | yacc: minds tend to change very slowly if at all |
| 22:19.35 | yacc | jpierre: yes. Considering that this small C CGI program was protecting the extremly "trusting" and "weak" MS-based innards of one of the bigger banks here around, ... |
| 22:20.34 | jpierre | yacc: another reason to make it cleaner |
| 22:22.22 | yacc | jpierre: wrong. Better idea: lower the invested capital into that small helper (the backend developers complain about the limitations anyway), and increase the bonuses for the board, everybody is happy. Well, at least till some bad guys figure the system out. ;) |
| 22:23.44 | jpierre | hehehe, that reminds me of a Dilbert chapter, where he finds a vulnerability in the system, and the boss tells him to fix it, he didn't know how to fix it, and the boss insists, so immediately he answers: "gone!, it's fixed!" |
| 22:24.16 | jpierre | the boss smiles and says: "much better" |
| 22:25.22 | Stephmw | jpierre: scariest bugs are those that fix themselves... |
| 22:26.43 | Stephmw | jpierre: you have no idea what caused them, or what changed to make no longer break... talk about risk |
| 22:26.47 | jpierre | Stephmw: :-) but Dilbert didn't fixed anything, he was talking to his boss in the alley with no computer nearby, he just said it was fixed, his boss did know it wasn't, he just wanted to hear that there was no problem |
| 22:28.01 | jpierre | Stephmw: just close your eyes and repeat after me: "everything is fine, perfectly fine" :-) |
| 22:28.34 | Stephmw | jpierre: lol |
| 22:28.43 | Stephmw | jpierre: it's bad enough to be responsible for regressions |
| 22:28.54 | Stephmw | jpierre: praying at the Code Altar is just asking for trouble |
| 22:29.17 | timtimred | your supposed to make sacrifices on said altar. |
| 22:29.37 | jpierre | Stephmw: I'm no developer, just a sysadmin, I deal with security issues all the time |
| 22:29.47 | jpierre | timtimred: ;-D |
| 22:29.54 | Stephmw | timtimred: I have! 3 doughnuts per month :) |
| 22:30.20 | Stephmw | jpierre: I'm a dev - I deal with the fallout of security errors and otherwise |
| 22:30.44 | timtimred | im in limbo between dev and sysadmin jobs :D |
| 22:30.59 | jpierre | Stephmw: yeah, when I find a problem, your head rolls |
| 22:31.23 | Stephmw | timtimred: I started out as a sys/netadmin |
| 22:31.38 | Stephmw | timtimred: now thinking that ending up in embedded dev wasn't such a hot idea |
| 22:31.43 | Stephmw | jpierre: haha |
| 22:31.48 | timtimred | i was a sysadmin, then a dev, now a sysadmin again. |
| 22:32.06 | timtimred | oh yeah i might have been a dev originally too. |
| 22:32.15 | jpierre | Stephmw: LOL :-P |
| 22:32.17 | Stephmw | jpierre: well, I dunno about rolling, all fixes I do have a risk assessment - the products decide if the risk of the fix outweighs the risk of the error |
| 22:32.42 | jpierre | Stephmw: then you do it the Zen way |
| 22:32.53 | Stephmw | jpierre: aye - whatever shit happens, I ain't to blame :) |
| 22:33.02 | jpierre | does anyone know if there's already an effort to port OpenMoko to existing phones |
| 22:33.02 | Stephmw | jpierre: contractors call it... Teflon shoulders |
| 22:33.19 | jpierre | Stephmw: everything slips |
| 22:33.43 | Stephmw | jpierre: that's the call of the next contract :) |
| 22:34.07 | jpierre | hehehe |
| 22:34.31 | jpierre | so there's no effort currently to do it |
| 22:34.50 | Stephmw | but seriously enough, I think I'll stay with embedded as a hobby, and go back to desktop dev for a living |
| 22:35.06 | Stephmw | jpierre: afaik the full soft or sdk isn't out yet, so no |
| 22:35.16 | jpierre | there are many PocketPC phones out there with Windows, it would be nice if they could run OpenMoko |
| 22:35.41 | jpierre | Stephmw: haven't you already jumped to Web 2.0 dev? |
| 22:35.58 | Stephmw | jpierre: naaaw, I'm too specialised atm - need to retrain a bit |
| 22:36.19 | yacc | jpierre: OpenMoko is just a "platform", it seems there are some HTC mobiles where GPE works ok. |
| 22:36.41 | jpierre | Stephmw: that's the way of our lives, today we build a car, tomorrow a space shuttle and the next week a jet engine |
| 22:37.01 | jpierre | yacc: GPE? |
| 22:38.06 | *** join/#openmoko B3ll4 (n=Chani@201.209.151.141) |
| 22:38.53 | yacc | The GTK based handheld environement that is part of OpenMoko too. |
| 22:42.11 | jpierre | yacc: nice |
| 22:43.37 | yacc | I've been using it some years back on an IPAQ. Seems like some of the HTC handhelds are nearing "enduser compatibility" under Linux ;) |
| 22:44.28 | jpierre | yacc: "enduser compatibility" LOL |
| 22:44.58 | jpierre | that's from the Lord or Ward movie |
| 22:46.29 | yacc | jpierre: "enduser compatibility" => you can give it to a non-hacker, and they can use it place a phone call without typing "cryptic Unix commands" ;) |
| 22:47.23 | jpierre | yacc: hehehe, sounds good |
| 22:48.30 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@dox137.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 22:55.36 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@dox137.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 23:00.39 | B3ll4 | jpierre: hijo!!! tais vivo??? |
| 23:00.55 | B3ll4 | jpierre: o en Pto. Fijo??? |
| 23:00.56 | jpierre | B3ll4: ¿cómo estás corazón? |
| 23:01.02 | jpierre | B3ll4: estoy en Caracas |
| 23:01.06 | B3ll4 | Muy bien y tu? |
| 23:01.13 | jpierre | yacc: trully and invasion from Venezuela :-) |
| 23:01.13 | B3ll4 | Ah, Okey xD |
| 23:01.19 | B3ll4 | LOL |
| 23:01.27 | jpierre | yacc: trully an invasion from Venezuela :-) |
| 23:01.36 | B3ll4 | LOL @ jpierre |
| 23:01.38 | jpierre | B3ll4: ¿cómo está todo?, ¿dónde andas metida? |
| 23:01.55 | hrw | esden: cześć |
| 23:02.10 | B3ll4 | jpierre: yo? en casa, posteando y husmeando por la red xD |
| 23:02.17 | hrw | if you guys speak Snapish then we will start Polish ;D |
| 23:02.22 | esden | hrw: czesc ;) |
| 23:02.34 | jpierre | hrw: :-P |
| 23:02.49 | hrw | esden: what bring you here? |
| 23:02.49 | jpierre | B3ll4: are you wating to get your moco? |
| 23:03.18 | B3ll4 | jpierre: pues si, de pana quisiera saber si llegarán a Venezuela :$ |
| 23:03.31 | jpierre | B3ll4: maybe we can buy a few in one shipment so we spend less |
| 23:03.37 | esden | ohh .. openmoko of course ... ;) I read some time ago about this project and am following the ongoings from the beginning ... |
| 23:03.56 | hrw | esden: user or developer? |
| 23:04.00 | jpierre | B3ll4: I asked before if they would ship to Venezuela, and most likely they will |
| 23:04.17 | B3ll4 | jpierre: Ah! claro, me imagine... |
| 23:04.38 | esden | hrw: I am a developer ... I am writing software for embedded systems myself ... sadly with closed tools for closed systems ... that is why openmoko is even more interesting to me |
| 23:04.41 | esden | hrw: and you? |
| 23:05.04 | *** join/#openmoko carlitos-ve (n=carlitos@200.8.84.123) |
| 23:05.22 | jpierre | B3ll4: it will be sold directly from FIC, they are in Taiwan so I don't think they will restrict shipments to the US and/or Europe |
| 23:05.35 | hrw | esden: I'm one of core devels in OpenEmbedded project which is used as base for OpenMoko thing |
| 23:05.43 | hrw | esden: http://www.hrw.one.pl/ |
| 23:07.10 | esden | hrw: wow amazing ... good to know that someone from poland is working on cool projects like this. It is not very often that I meed polish people in the open source scene. |
| 23:07.37 | esden | hrw: the reason may also be that I am not living in poland at the moment |
| 23:08.24 | hrw | esden: emigrated into UE? |
| 23:09.35 | hrw | ok time to sleep |
| 23:09.40 | esden | hrw: humm ... not the last emigration wave |
| 23:09.46 | hrw | HNY to all |
| 23:09.54 | esden | hrw: moved with my father ... |
| 23:10.00 | esden | hrw: sleep well |
| 23:10.06 | yacc | esden: you've got a TPnet ADSL address? |
| 23:10.12 | yacc | esden: Where to? |
| 23:10.38 | esden | yacc: visiting my grandmother for holydays ;) |
| 23:10.40 | hrw | yacc: probably account on such machine |
| 23:10.51 | hrw | yacc: I'm not living in .nl |
| 23:11.07 | yacc | hrw: Well, one usually does not use DSL boxes as bouncers ;) |
| 23:11.23 | hrw | yacc: misc things people do |
| 23:11.24 | hrw | cu |
| 23:11.26 | esden | yacc: I know people that do |
| 23:11.55 | yacc | esden: I said "usually" ;) |
| 23:12.08 | esden | yacc: sure ... I know ;) |
| 23:12.14 | yacc | But where do you live now? |
| 23:12.39 | esden | yacc: the people that do such things are strange ones ... (/me knows many strange people ;) ) |
| 23:13.17 | yacc | esden: I think my IRC setup is way stranger than the things your friends do. |
| 23:13.17 | esden | yacc: I live in Germany at the moment. Finishing my computer science diploma and working. |
| 23:13.39 | B3ll4 | jpierre: huummm... bueno en la pagina leà algún tipo de contactos con ésta gente y venÃa de Asia y Estados Unidos, entonces pensé que iban a comenzar a venderlo por allá |
| 23:13.56 | yacc | (hint: ctrl-proxy + 1-2 xchats + self-written bridge to Jabber + IM+/Nokia9500) |
| 23:14.01 | esden | yacc: like making two openvpn tunnels home then from home to a remote machine over ssh and running irssi in a screen there? |
| 23:14.02 | B3ll4 | LOL, jpierre ves? ya llegó carlitos-ve |
| 23:14.03 | esden | ;) |
| 23:14.04 | yacc | esden: where in Germany? |
| 23:14.29 | carlitos-ve | hello people |
| 23:14.37 | esden | yacc: Rosenheim/Munich/Ingolstadt ... depending on date and time ;) |
| 23:14.55 | carlitos-ve | i wanna a cellphone with linux |
| 23:15.11 | yacc | esden: I've got one xchat running in a VNC session on my colocated box, which does the Jabber bridging, and when at the Laptop use one xchat directly ;) |
| 23:15.14 | *** join/#openmoko ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) |
| 23:15.24 | yacc | carlitos-ve: We all want such a thing ;) |
| 23:15.31 | esden | yacc: also a nice setup |
| 23:15.59 | carlitos-ve | ;) |
| 23:16.57 | yacc | esden: Well, it was forced on me, because I had a Sidekick => AIM was the only interactive application on these => so I used an xchat2aim bridge ;) |
| 23:16.58 | esden | I normally run irssi on a server inside a screen and connect there with ssh or even with ssh over openvpn ... but because I wanted notification I now use Colloquy directly on my mac |
| 23:17.22 | jpierre | see ya people |
| 23:17.37 | esden | yacc: was the sidekick also forced on you? |
| 23:17.38 | yacc | irssi does have a nice proxy support, which should allow you to connect a "second" desktop irc client to it. |
| 23:17.57 | yacc | esden: Well, it was the only "internet" device in Austria at the time that had a "flatrate" :( |
| 23:18.35 | yacc | And forced is not completly wrong, technically speaking, my wife directed us to the shop back then ;) |
| 23:18.42 | esden | yacc: yes I know but I never had the motivation to finally test this irssi proxy stuff |
| 23:18.57 | esden | yacc: so your wife is guilty? ;) |
| 23:19.21 | yacc | Well, yes and no. My wife + "my dislike for non-flat packages"? |
| 23:19.44 | yacc | nowadays, I know that the 250MB/month package (in Austria) is enough for my usage. |
| 23:20.11 | esden | I see |
| 23:20.51 | esden | I do not have an online flat for my phone ... I never needed it ... everywhere I am I have wlan or hardwired internet connectivity |
| 23:21.08 | esden | and my macbook is also always with me ... |
| 23:21.30 | esden | neven needed connectivity with my phone beside normal telephony and sms |
| 23:21.43 | *** part/#openmoko carlitos-ve (n=carlitos@200.8.84.123) |
| 23:22.03 | esden | but I can imagine that an openmoko based phone may alter my requirements ;) |
| 23:22.26 | esden | the future will show |
| 23:22.28 | yacc | esden: I've got a nice admin/dev job, where monitoring boxes is part of the deal :( |
| 23:23.22 | esden | yacc: sure I understand, I thought that it will be something like that |
| 23:24.10 | yacc | Actually, when I travel it's nice to be able to chat with my wife => it's usually easier to chat than to talk voice in some office. |
| 23:24.34 | esden | sure it is ... you use t9 or something for input? |
| 23:24.36 | yacc | Nobody notices when one chats, especially on the "official" PC, but everyone notices when one goes go for a phone call ;) |
| 23:24.43 | yacc | esden: 9500 ;) |
| 23:24.49 | esden | ahh right |
| 23:25.11 | yacc | With the 9500 even putty is somehow acceptable. |
| 23:25.33 | esden | what? ... ROFL ... very nice |
| 23:25.38 | yacc | The hardest thing is the latency. You have to have seen it once for yourself, before one believes it. |
| 23:26.24 | yacc | So GPRS/UMTS (HSDPA is reported to be better) are all poor substitutes for a DSL line :( |
| 23:26.30 | esden | what is the latency? ... how many seconds? |
| 23:27.27 | yacc | Let's say, with E+ in Munich, I've managed low latency last Autumn of say 400ms. More normal was ping roundtimes >1s |
| 23:28.36 | Paavo | Actually, the E70 is a surprisingly usable Putty terminal. |
| 23:28.53 | esden | humm ... ok ... that is an acceptable latency |
| 23:29.20 | Paavo | The screen is big enough to fit a fair amount of text and with 3G the latency is quite acceptable. |
| 23:29.33 | esden | I hate it when latency goes up above 1s ... I had that at the time I had to use modem to connect to the internet when I was visiting my grandma |
| 23:30.08 | esden | but it was more like 10s or more |
| 23:30.31 | xorAxAx | with a modem, you usually have 120 ms |
| 23:30.35 | esden | I typed what I wanted pressed enter ... and went to get something to drink or eat, waiting for the result |
| 23:31.03 | esden | xorAxAx: not with the polish network infrastructure 5 years ago |
| 23:31.12 | xorAxAx | esden: a pity |
| 23:31.18 | yacc | esden: My highest where more than 60s latency. |
| 23:31.27 | xorAxAx | 6 years ago in germany, it was perfectly possible |
| 23:31.31 | xorAxAx | yacc: without retransmissions? |
| 23:31.38 | yacc | esden: And it's not funny if you need to work on a ppp-over-ssh VPN. |
| 23:31.39 | xorAxAx | ICMP latency? |
| 23:31.43 | xorAxAx | how should htat work? |
| 23:31.52 | esden | yacc: full ACK |
| 23:31.56 | yacc | xorAxAx: ICMP => ping did report that. |
| 23:32.01 | xorAxAx | i claim that its not possible on tcp->ppp->line |
| 23:32.10 | xorAxAx | vpn is something different |
| 23:32.37 | yacc | xorAxAx: I said GPRS/UMTS ;) |
| 23:32.45 | B3ll4 | see ya!!! |
| 23:32.48 | esden | hehe ... I should have write down my latency charts ... |
| 23:32.48 | *** part/#openmoko B3ll4 (n=Chani@201.209.151.141) |
| 23:32.58 | esden | I really would lough these days about it ;) |
| 23:33.01 | xorAxAx | yacc: ah,ok |
| 23:36.35 | esden | yacc: and what is your role here at openmoko? spectator? core developer? |
| 23:38.14 | yacc | esden: interested buyer. I'd like a phone where I can EASILY develop for. |
| 23:38.37 | yacc | esden: Currently I'm doing reports and data entry via a xchat module that interfaces with the back office. |
| 23:39.59 | esden | yacc: ahh ok ... that is pretty much the same thing I am interested in ... I mean a phone that I can bend to my needs coding my own solutions for it |
| 23:40.48 | esden | yacc: or bend to the needs of some other people ... like my family members that need different things from phones ... |
| 23:41.06 | esden | yacc: I see needs that no phones that are out there fulfill ... |
| 23:42.08 | yacc | Yes. In theory the 9500 should be ok, but coding for Series 80s phones on Linux is a PITA. |
| 23:42.08 | esden | for example a phone that is easy to use for my grandma ... with big buttons ... I saw something like that but it was obscure and really expensive and difficult to get |
| 23:43.38 | yacc | Well, I'd like to have pushmail somehow, and if that's not an option, at least a mailer that can check on it's own AND when asked (the Nokia can either check automatically in the background or when asked, but not both :( ) |
| 23:44.30 | esden | yacc: yes that sucks ... |
| 23:45.00 | esden | yacc: humm ... a friend of mine has a Motorola A780 ... it is also codable ... but it is no real fun |
| 23:45.04 | yacc | And it seems to break down with IMAP with folder with more than 2500 messages or so. |
| 23:45.16 | esden | yacc: it is damn difficult to change something without breaking the whole thing |
| 23:46.04 | esden | yacc: humm ... I think that really depends on the bandwidth ... |
| 23:46.26 | esden | yacc: AFAIK IMAP is syncing always the whole headerlists ... |
| 23:46.44 | esden | yacc: that means that the more mails are there in your mailbox it will take longer to sync? |
| 23:46.49 | esden | yacc: or did I miss something? |
| 23:46.52 | yacc | esden: I don't think so, although I might try it over WLAN. I've got EGPRS for it, and it shouldn't be an issue with that. |
| 23:47.07 | esden | yacc: you may be right |
| 23:47.36 | yacc | esden: Well, it's not completly linear. It just tends to drop the autosyncing mode with more than say 2k messages in the inbox. |
| 23:48.29 | esden | ahh .. ok ... then it seems to be a bug in the implementation... does it? |
| 23:49.15 | yacc | Might be. What do I know? *g* |
| 23:49.31 | yacc | The mailer sucks for such huge inboxes UI-wise anyway. |
| 23:50.08 | esden | I see .. then I know what you will code for the neo first ;) |
| 23:50.16 | esden | a good mail client ;) |
| 23:50.43 | esden | what sucks is that imap protocol is such a mess to implement >_< |