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| 00:55.27 | Stephmw | Paavo: lol, yeah |
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| 13:15.56 | markit | very quiet today :) |
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| 13:23.19 | pierrox | it's saturday... |
| 13:35.09 | markit | still nothing official about hw specs? |
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| 20:13.11 | ojai | just curious, from what I've read, it's going to use an 'apt-get like' command to install pkgs. Is it actually apt or something else? and if it is, I'm guessing/hoping that you can edit the sources.list to add new repositories? |
| 20:13.43 | mikesh | it should be ipkg |
| 20:16.04 | Stephmw | ipkg is apt's little cousin |
| 20:16.20 | Stephmw | more agile, smaller footprint, but a little dumber |
| 20:20.07 | hrw|gone | and it allow external feeds |
| 20:20.15 | hrw | morning guys |
| 20:21.45 | hrw | I use ipkg for nearly 3 years on several devices (palmtops, routers etc) |
| 20:28.37 | ojai | are the pkgs still .debs or something else? just curious. |
| 20:29.07 | Stephmw | same structure |
| 20:30.23 | ojai | and how are the pkgs compiled? I build the pkgs for my company's products (which are debs) and I'd be happy to help in any way possible. But I'm guessing that the pkgs can't be compiled on x86? |
| 20:30.28 | hrw | ipkg is dpkg & apt-get - two-in-one |
| 20:31.02 | ojai | not too shabby! is ipkg primarily used on embedded devices? |
| 20:31.03 | hrw | ojai: OpenEmbedded (buildsystem used by OpenMoKo) can crosscompile |
| 20:31.09 | hrw | ojai: yes |
| 20:31.35 | hrw | ojai: I built few distributions for arm devices on i686 or amd64 machines |
| 20:33.00 | ojai | hrw: nice! is there a repo w/ openembedded in it? |
| 20:33.14 | hrw | ojai: http://www.openembedded.org/ |
| 20:33.21 | ojai | funny place for it :) |
| 20:33.37 | hrw | ojai: funny? I dont get it... |
| 20:36.32 | ojai | hrw: just making fun of myself (openembedded being available on openembedded.org) |
| 20:37.26 | hrw | ah ;) |
| 20:38.07 | ojai | is there a ipkg repo I can browse to see the apps that are already package-ized? |
| 20:38.19 | hrw | sure - moment |
| 20:38.32 | hrw | http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/ |
| 20:38.50 | ojai | cool, thanks |
| 20:38.55 | hrw | Ångström is one distributions built from OpenEmbedded |
| 20:39.14 | hrw | s/one/one of |
| 20:40.15 | ojai | gotta love it -- aircrack's already in there :) |
| 20:40.15 | hrw | official release of this distro is currently planned for 2007.1 and will probably support FIC phone too |
| 20:42.20 | hrw | ojai: OE contain ~4000 recipes (packages descriptions) which end in over 12000 packages |
| 20:42.59 | hrw | it has big granuality - locales split per lang, docs are extra package too |
| 20:43.36 | ojai | I see that parted is listed in the 'tools' section. this is probably a stupid question seeing as I don't have any experience w/ embedded devices, but does an embedded device (like the FIC phone) have a partition table, filesystems and the like as do "regular" linux installs? |
| 20:43.41 | hrw | ojai: shared libs dependency tracked during packaging so each resulted package has all needed infos |
| 20:43.52 | hrw | parted console/tools parted, the GNU partition resizing program |
| 20:44.12 | hrw | ojai: it has it on sd/cf cards |
| 20:44.16 | ojai | hrw: yeah, we use parted on our OS to set things up as well |
| 20:44.42 | hrw | ojai: flash is split into 'partitions' too but this is handled in other way then PC partitioning |
| 20:45.12 | hrw | ojai: parted has sense on sd/mmc, cf cards and other 'external' storage |
| 20:46.01 | hrw | ojai: and you have to know that OE contain lot of stuff not usefull on embedded devices too. Many OE devs use OE to build needed tools for any development. |
| 20:46.51 | hrw | ojai: for example ARM devices do not have ACPI but OE contain acpi tools because we target also x86 devices (and ppc, sh3, sh4, mips, ...) |
| 20:47.17 | hrw | btw, I'm Marcin Juszkiewicz - one of OpenEmbedded core developers. |
| 20:47.19 | ojai | gotcha. whole new world (to me) :) |
| 20:47.36 | ojai | so how big is the actual kernel image? are drivers built straight in or are they modularised? |
| 20:48.09 | hrw | ojai: thats question which I cant answer - never saw FIC phone or its recipes |
| 20:48.23 | ojai | nice to meet you. I'm Charlie Bebber and I'm just interested in this :) |
| 20:48.51 | hrw | ;) |
| 20:49.38 | ojai | how did you get involved in this? was it something you just fell into or something that intereted you in university? |
| 20:50.43 | hrw | ojai: bought sharp zaurus sl-5500, installed openzaurus, wanted to build some software |
| 20:51.14 | hrw | ojai: found OE, started to use. then created first bootable image from it, got r/w to repository |
| 20:51.45 | ojai | gotcha. guess that's probably the most common way of getting into something, wanting to improve it |
| 20:51.47 | hrw | ojai: then worked on many things, took over maintaining of openzaurus distribution |
| 20:51.59 | ojai | is that still alive? |
| 20:52.00 | hrw | ojai: finally - own company to OpenEmbedded consulting |
| 20:52.04 | hrw | OZ? it is |
| 20:52.52 | ojai | I'd always been interested in the Zaurus but didn't Sharp stop making them? |
| 20:53.36 | hrw | there was no official info but rather yes |
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| 20:54.23 | hrw | anyway sharp used Z as devices to show own technology rather then something to sell |
| 20:56.08 | ojai | so openmoko uses OE to build their pkgs and env? is that right? (sorry, just trying to get it straight in my head) |
| 20:56.15 | hrw | ojai: thats right |
| 20:56.36 | hrw | ojai: one of openmoko creators is also creator of OE |
| 20:56.46 | ojai | ah, gotcha |
| 20:57.19 | hrw | ;) |
| 20:57.29 | ojai | so when you build a pkg using OE, is it on a arch basis (x86/ppc/et al) or do they all get built at once? |
| 20:57.37 | hrw | arch |
| 20:57.51 | hrw | you select target device and distro |
| 20:58.08 | hrw | device config tell which arch it is and which optimalization has to be used |
| 20:58.27 | ojai | does it use gcc or something else? |
| 20:58.31 | hrw | gcc |
| 20:59.28 | ojai | I'll RTFM but it sounds slightly more involved than 'cd'ing into a build dir and running 'debuild' eh? |
| 20:59.42 | hrw | standard stuff: binutils, gcc, glibc or uclibc etc |
| 20:59.55 | ojai | nice. standard is good |
| 21:00.00 | hrw | ojai: "bitbake package1 package2 package3" |
| 21:00.30 | hrw | ojai: "bitbake package" also build everything needed to build this (toolchain, libs, tools, etc) |
| 21:00.46 | ojai | is that run from the parent dir of those three packages or is more menu driven? |
| 21:01.39 | hrw | bitbake gets recipes location from config file |
| 21:01.56 | hrw | BBFILES = "location/of/repository/*/*.bb" usually |
| 21:05.07 | ojai | sounds interesting. I'll definitely check it out. thanks for all of the great info |
| 21:05.15 | hrw | no problem |
| 21:05.40 | hrw | I think that I will edit log from this discussion to use it for some kind of presentation/introduction |
| 21:06.16 | ojai|gone | heh, that'll probably save you some time :) |
| 21:06.29 | hrw | save like save... |
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| 21:06.50 | hrw | I rarely have occassion to introduce OE to fresh developers |
| 21:07.01 | hrw | zecke: you here too? :D |
| 21:07.04 | zecke | wow quite some people are here |
| 21:07.26 | hrw | zecke is one of BitBake and OpenEmbedded hackers |
| 21:08.51 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: after the press release all people are interested in more infos. We need to give them food. :) |
| 21:09.37 | hrw | stefan_schmidt: infos, infos, infos... we want device ;) |
| 21:10.02 | stefan_schmidt | hrw: heh, january. |
| 21:10.19 | hrw | some infos was known even before official release infos |
| 21:10.38 | hrw | stefan_schmidt: some kind of developer discounts planned? |
| 21:10.57 | zecke | will we get a preview at the congress? |
| 21:11.02 | stefan_schmidt | hrw: I read about hacker discounts. |
| 21:11.09 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: 23C3? |
| 21:11.16 | hrw | my PDA machines lay on desk and wait for being replaced |
| 21:11.19 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: yes |
| 21:11.35 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Harald hoped to bring a prototype with him. |
| 21:11.42 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: You will be there? |
| 21:11.52 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: highly likely |
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| 21:12.05 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: nice. Need to meet. :) |
| 21:12.23 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Anybody else from oe? |
| 21:12.27 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: sure, there will be enough mate to drink |
| 21:12.28 | hrw | shit.. 23c3 if after christmas... I will be on other side of Poland then. |
| 21:12.39 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: I try hard to push other guys to drop by |
| 21:12.57 | zecke | probably I can make woglinde join |
| 21:13.15 | hrw | zecke: I will not be there. other plans |
| 21:13.34 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: I like all the crazy people at the congress every year. :) |
| 21:13.44 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: are you a local one as well? |
| 21:14.10 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Not Berlin. Braunschweig instead. 2,5 hours by car. |
| 21:15.21 | hrw | stefan_schmidt: normally I live 3h by train from Berlin |
| 21:15.39 | zecke | hrw: I'm still mad you called my room nasty! |
| 21:16.49 | hrw | zecke: mad or angry? |
| 21:16.49 | stefan_schmidt | hrw: 3 hours Berlin <-> Poland sounds good. But x-mas time is family time. |
| 21:17.00 | hrw | stefan_schmidt: and I will be in North-East area of Poland |
| 21:18.18 | hrw | anyway, time for IT Crowd now |
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