| 01:08.38 | *** join/#openjtag ka6sox-away (~tking@adsl-66-159-198-116.dslextreme.com) |
| 02:00.56 | *** join/#openjtag kas11 (~karen@193-63.73-24.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 02:39.21 | kas11 | 37 mins into a amd64 stage 1 build...a little extra disk space can be a dangerous thing |
| 02:39.54 | [g2] | gentoo ? |
| 02:40.14 | kas11 | uh huh |
| 02:41.39 | kas11 | curiosity overcame laziness |
| 02:43.12 | kas11 | can't have all those bogomips going to waste anyhow |
| 02:44.10 | [g2] | malice, welcome |
| 02:48.17 | [g2] | ka6sox, I saw a sweet AMD64 mobo yesterday |
| 02:49.45 | kas11 | what was it, [g2]? |
| 02:51.41 | [g2] | it was in a shop, I think it was a MSI with the X200 chipset and the 939 socket |
| 02:52.32 | [g2] | Had gigabit, USB, 4 SATA with on board Raid (dunno whether fake or real) $109 US |
| 02:52.34 | kas11 | this one is an Epox 9nda3....running a nice stable 300 mhz main clock |
| 02:53.37 | [g2] | I tried using on of my P4's as a Gigabit NAS and the performance totally SUCKED |
| 02:53.44 | [g2] | I was really surprised |
| 02:54.00 | kas11 | I've read that the ATI boards seem to have RTC problems |
| 02:54.00 | [g2] | I think it was the setup that I had |
| 02:54.42 | kas11 | P4....I've heard the term but never actually experienced it ;) |
| 02:55.48 | [g2] | I had a $25 SATA PCI card and my $27 Gigabit PCI card. |
| 02:56.10 | kas11 | I still haven't gotten around to do the gigE thing...both A64s have gigE built in but I have no idea how they will perform |
| 02:56.16 | [g2] | The Gigabit card was known to do 600Mbs on ttcp throughput |
| 02:56.40 | [g2] | as measured on my lan with ttcp and a 800MB file |
| 02:57.18 | kas11 | I have seen people talk between 600 and 700....if I see a decent 8169 I'll pick it up since J Garzik sez he has had the best luck with them |
| 02:57.20 | [g2] | however, trying to backup with tar over the NFS mount it was only like 40Mbs |
| 02:57.34 | kas11 | NFSv4? |
| 02:57.41 | [g2] | v3 |
| 02:57.55 | [g2] | v4 is still pretty green from what hear |
| 02:58.05 | kas11 | v4 might be better from what I've read |
| 02:58.08 | kas11 | true |
| 02:58.13 | [g2] | Oh... The board supports NCQ on the SATA drives too |
| 02:58.32 | [g2] | well I was looking for *backups* |
| 02:58.42 | kas11 | I need to see what RHE4 is using by default...FC3 is using v4 |
| 02:58.48 | kas11 | well, CentOS... |
| 02:59.07 | kas11 | being too cheap to actually buy an OS |
| 02:59.30 | kas11 | I've been using v3 here myself |
| 02:59.34 | [g2] | The new SATA drive is *totally* kick ass |
| 02:59.46 | kas11 | the last thing I need is nfs problems |
| 02:59.59 | [g2] | do you run much nfs ? |
| 03:00.10 | kas11 | I prolly should qut buying cheap pata drives |
| 03:01.20 | kas11 | all the time....devel files are on Neptune (server) and I mostly compile from Mercury (the other A64) |
| 03:01.43 | [g2] | http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?sort_type=price&masterid=3173558&isbn=&pid= |
| 03:01.57 | [g2] | that's the drive |
| 03:02.05 | [g2] | I got it locally |
| 03:02.14 | [g2] | It's faster that the Raptor |
| 03:02.32 | [g2] | at least according to hdparm |
| 03:04.58 | [g2] | I was measuring 60MBs on the Reads with hdparm |
| 03:05.23 | kas11 | I've seen them at a reasonable price at compusa....but with pata being dirt cheap I haven't gone to sata yet |
| 03:05.56 | kas11 | altho something has to give soon....most boxes around here have 3 HDs already... |
| 03:05.57 | [g2] | cheap is important. |
| 03:06.19 | [g2] | however, time is also something to consider |
| 03:07.14 | kas11 | I'm seeing 47 on the pata here |
| 03:07.36 | [g2] | cool |
| 03:07.46 | kas11 | the 16 mb cache on those is nice too |
| 03:08.03 | [g2] | I'm sure the AMD64 and the bw on the backplane helps alot |
| 03:08.52 | kas11 | uh huh...I'm running on the older asus mb now while gentoo builds on the new board |
| 03:09.36 | kas11 | it is a k8v with a via chipset |
| 03:10.12 | *** join/#openjtag dyoung-web (www-data@netblock-66-159-209-60.dslextreme.com) |
| 03:10.25 | kas11 | the Epox is a nvidia nforce3-250 chipset |
| 03:10.34 | dyoung-web | I dont have the dexterity to work with SMT stuff anymore. |
| 03:11.10 | [g2] | dyoung-web, I've gotten some good quotes from ppl that do it everyday |
| 03:12.01 | [g2] | these guys even do bga replacement and one has an x-ray machine :) |
| 03:12.04 | dyoung-web | [g2] I'm hacking a board. The final version should come from the factory with the stuff in the right place with the right values. |
| 03:12.20 | dyoung-web | Cool. |
| 03:12.35 | dyoung-web | Its a LOT easier with the right tools. |
| 03:12.47 | [g2] | and if you do it all the time :) |
| 03:13.04 | dyoung-web | I'm trying to do things out of the scope of my ability. |
| 03:13.06 | dyoung-web | right. |
| 03:13.18 | [g2] | well that's the only way you learn |
| 03:13.23 | dyoung-web | Mmm.... Chocolate Chips..... |
| 03:14.07 | dyoung-web | [g2] can I place a pre-order? |
| 03:14.21 | [g2] | dyoung-web, what do you want ? |
| 03:14.42 | dyoung-web | The [g2] IXP 465 Dev Kit. |
| 03:15.03 | [g2] | the 465 is gonna be a little while |
| 03:15.08 | dyoung-web | oh. |
| 03:15.09 | dyoung-web | drat. |
| 03:15.30 | [g2] | my understanding is the parts are not in full volume production yet |
| 03:15.37 | dyoung-web | Ok, hows about the Avila with the '425? |
| 03:15.52 | dyoung-web | ir is it actually cheaper to get a '082 ? |
| 03:16.21 | [g2] | depends on how many minipci slots you need and processor speed |
| 03:17.39 | [g2] | @ $156 the RV 042 with a 425 @ 266 Mhz is a great deal |
| 03:18.17 | [g2] | I'd consider bumping the memory to 64MB or 128MB |
| 03:19.17 | [g2] | how does 64MB sound with the 425 RV042 @ 266 with Serial header, JTAG header and 1 minipci sound ? |
| 03:20.16 | [g2] | don't forget the nice metal case and pretty blink'n lights :) |
| 03:20.19 | dyoung-web | Woo |
| 03:20.21 | dyoung-web | Blinky Lights..... |
| 03:21.00 | dyoung-web | oh yeah, for some reason I was thinking the 042 was sometihng other than a 425; but it was speed that was differnt. duh! |
| 03:21.13 | jacques | I wanna 082 with 128MB RAM |
| 03:21.31 | jacques | wow those guys have minipci ??? |
| 03:21.36 | [g2] | jacques, that's very doable |
| 03:21.41 | [g2] | *very* |
| 03:21.49 | [g2] | here's the rub |
| 03:21.52 | dyoung-web | Maybe I ought to just get a 042 so I can play in the Revvie Sandbox. |
| 03:22.01 | [g2] | the 042 has the do not install of the minipci |
| 03:22.26 | dyoung-web | jacques, was that engrish [g2] just used? |
| 03:22.28 | [g2] | 082 at 16MB flash and 533 processor and pad for extra memory and flash, but no minipci layout |
| 03:22.51 | jacques | d`oh |
| 03:23.12 | jacques | sigh |
| 03:23.20 | jacques | anyone know how to spell ubuntu (sp?) |
| 03:23.28 | [g2] | ubuntu |
| 03:23.31 | kas11 | you do |
| 03:23.40 | dyoung-web | purl, ubuntu? |
| 03:23.41 | purl | i heard ubuntu is uma distribuicao baseada no debian, livre, que se comprometeu a lancar muitos releases (de 6 em 6 meses). A palavra ubuntu significa 'uma pessoa eh uma pessoa atraves das outras'. Pergunte-me sobre debian-ubuntu. <http://www.ubuntulinux.org> |
| 03:23.47 | jacques | ah |
| 03:23.57 | jacques | I tried ubuntu.org and no-go - thanks for the link |
| 03:24.03 | dyoung-web | ~botsnack |
| 03:24.03 | purl | dyoung-web: thanks |
| 03:24.04 | qbot | :) |
| 03:24.31 | [g2] | jacques, what do you want to do with the 425 ? |
| 03:24.46 | kas11 | yo quiero taco bell |
| 03:25.09 | jacques | [g2], I want a faster pxa basically |
| 03:25.24 | jacques | damn safeway |
| 03:25.32 | [g2] | the 082 is @ 533 |
| 03:25.41 | kas11 | 5 yrs of HS spanish...who sez it was a total waste...but Portugues is incomprehensible |
| 03:25.45 | *** join/#openjtag beewoolie-akf (~beewoolie@florence.buici.com) |
| 03:25.48 | [g2] | 32MB mem and 16MB flash |
| 03:26.08 | beewoolie-akf | [g2]: blah blah blah |
| 03:26.15 | [g2] | beewoolie-akf, wb |
| 03:26.17 | beewoolie-akf | [g2]: Did you read the note about the synologics ds101? |
| 03:26.27 | beewoolie-akf | It was on the nslu2-linux list. |
| 03:26.28 | [g2] | nope ? |
| 03:26.49 | jacques | [g2], yeah the 533 drew me to the 082 |
| 03:26.50 | beewoolie-akf | It's another SAN box. Looks like it's got more hackables than the slug. Faster, too. |
| 03:26.58 | jacques | but minipci is a real draw too |
| 03:27.16 | beewoolie-akf | And it has minipci solder pads. |
| 03:27.17 | [g2] | beewoolie-akf, that was like a month ago on the list ? |
| 03:27.26 | beewoolie-akf | Probably. I'm a bit behind. |
| 03:27.37 | [g2] | yeah I saw that |
| 03:27.54 | [g2] | they aren't too available in the states last I looked |
| 03:28.01 | dyoung-web | buzbee gave me some high res pics of the ds101 internals. |
| 03:28.20 | [g2] | nod we looked at them and it was a 420 |
| 03:28.27 | [g2] | iirc |
| 03:28.47 | dyoung-web | Right, a 420; with jtag. I wasnt that impressed. |
| 03:28.50 | beewoolie-akf | Both ethernet jacks potentially available. |
| 03:28.57 | beewoolie-akf | three USB ports. |
| 03:29.05 | beewoolie-akf | And it has IDE inside. |
| 03:29.18 | beewoolie-akf | The biggest problem is that it's going for more than $200. |
| 03:29.21 | jacques | man, this is a *really* interesting conversation, but I am in another one on AIM so I can't really pay attention :-\ |
| 03:29.48 | dyoung-web | someone told me there were some issues with importing the ds101 here, and the likelyhood of it being widely availble through a us importer was slipping away. |
| 03:30.05 | dyoung-web | I dont quite remember what the deal with that was though. |
| 03:30.25 | beewoolie-akf | Wierd. |
| 03:30.27 | kas11 | stage 1 needs distcc and -j8....geeez |
| 03:30.42 | beewoolie-akf | j8. That's some hardare. |
| 03:30.50 | [g2] | it's likely I'll build hw pretty soon |
| 03:30.58 | beewoolie-akf | You go dog. |
| 03:31.09 | [g2] | or just buy the IXP425 dev board |
| 03:31.12 | beewoolie-akf | did you see the story about the ultra thin clients? |
| 03:31.22 | beewoolie-akf | really awesome work. |
| 03:31.23 | [g2] | url ? |
| 03:31.26 | beewoolie-akf | ... |
| 03:31.39 | beewoolie-akf | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/03/ultra_thin_digital_divide/ |
| 03:31.55 | beewoolie-akf | I think that they're missing the big story. |
| 03:32.12 | dyoung-web | Embed The World. |
| 03:32.21 | beewoolie-akf | This is a huge huge massive big scary threat to MS. |
| 03:32.44 | beewoolie-akf | Think about high-bandwidth to the home and $75 workstations. |
| 03:32.58 | beewoolie-akf | All SW is remote and the user interacts of the net. |
| 03:33.01 | dyoung-web | is that bigger than super-jimangous ? |
| 03:33.03 | beewoolie-akf | ...with the server. |
| 03:33.09 | beewoolie-akf | *WAY* bigger. |
| 03:33.18 | [g2] | you can already buy ultra thin clients cheap $250ish |
| 03:33.22 | dyoung-web | Super Dumper Massively Huge. |
| 03:33.31 | dyoung-web | DUPER rather. |
| 03:33.32 | beewoolie-akf | They're making it cheaper than that. |
| 03:33.52 | beewoolie-akf | One of the keys to this tech is taking all of the HW out of the client. |
| 03:33.57 | [g2] | well they're talking about making it cheaper |
| 03:34.03 | beewoolie-akf | they've got a FPGA, video ram, and ethernet. |
| 03:34.09 | beewoolie-akf | No CPU. |
| 03:34.31 | dyoung-web | Aha, I was wondering when someone was going to do that. |
| 03:34.33 | [g2] | the $250 box has an AMD NX in it iirc |
| 03:34.40 | beewoolie-akf | WAY to big. |
| 03:34.44 | [g2] | plus memory, flash etc .... |
| 03:35.04 | dyoung-web | I was an early adopter of Thin Clients. |
| 03:35.14 | dyoung-web | now all collecting dust on a shelf. |
| 03:35.15 | beewoolie-akf | They are thinking that they can put a single chip in the chasis of an LCD monitor, give it a couple of USB ports and be done. |
| 03:35.24 | beewoolie-akf | dyoung-web: NCD? |
| 03:35.29 | dyoung-web | HDS. |
| 03:35.36 | beewoolie-akf | Didn't use that one. |
| 03:35.53 | beewoolie-akf | I used one at my house for a while, but the X server was too slow. |
| 03:36.23 | beewoolie-akf | That's the problem with traditional thin clients. There is still some pressure to upgrade if the speed is too low. |
| 03:36.43 | [g2] | http://www.dtresearch.com/prod_webDT166LX.html. |
| 03:36.54 | [g2] | I think these go for about $250 |
| 03:37.00 | beewoolie-akf | They're talking about reducing the energy for manufacturing, the power consumption, and the overall waste. |
| 03:37.37 | beewoolie-akf | Right. Way more parts in those things than what these people are doing. |
| 03:38.01 | [g2] | beewoolie-akf, FPGAs are ready yet in terms of cost/functionality |
| 03:38.11 | beewoolie-akf | For example, they note that it will be even cheaper when they can put the HW inside the monitor because there won't be a VGA port or the corresponding translations. |
| 03:38.11 | [g2] | s/are/aren't |
| 03:38.42 | [g2] | The monitor and the BW are the driving cost factors |
| 03:39.20 | [g2] | at monitor 17-19" is still $150-200 |
| 03:39.29 | beewoolie-akf | They didn't talk about that much. I think that some of the SOCs could be good for this, though. Not 128MiB of memory, but more like 1MiB. It's a whole different way to look at it. |
| 03:39.37 | [g2] | wifi can help with the BW but it's still very expensive |
| 03:39.45 | beewoolie-akf | Monitors are being recycled as an astonishing rate. They're practically free. |
| 03:40.01 | beewoolie-akf | Read the presentation. They talk explicitly about BW. |
| 03:40.43 | kas11 | the M$FT tax is the real showstopper on most of the current things they are pushing now in the 3rd world....seems to be a little profit sharing with the politicos |
| 03:40.43 | beewoolie-akf | I don't think they're using a standard protocol for the user presentation. |
| 03:41.25 | beewoolie-akf | kas11: they talk a little about that. I also read something recently about how it can be as much as $100 of the system price...the MS tax. |
| 03:42.43 | kas11 | yeppers...the profit motive among banditos seems to be an overriding consideration |
| 03:43.22 | kas11 | where's the fun if Billy doesn't get his cut |
| 03:43.29 | beewoolie-akf | It doesn't seem to universal. did you read about the google web accelerator? No direct profit motive there. |
| 03:43.41 | dyoung-web | Speaking of cut... |
| 03:43.45 | beewoolie-akf | Looks like good-will building from where I stand. |
| 03:43.50 | kas11 | have you seen the price of their stock? |
| 03:43.55 | dyoung-web | Did any of you have a IBM 75GXP that failed? |
| 03:44.44 | beewoolie-akf | kas11: Whose stock? |
| 03:44.53 | kas11 | Google |
| 03:45.02 | beewoolie-akf | Going which way? |
| 03:45.28 | kas11 | up...somewhere north of $200 now... |
| 03:45.44 | beewoolie-akf | dyoung-web: Don't know about those. The first hit on google is IBM SUCKS. |
| 03:45.47 | dyoung-web | it closed ~228. |
| 03:46.08 | kas11 | it is so outrageous that I stopped even watching.... |
| 03:46.10 | beewoolie-akf | Most people recognize a good thing when they see it. |
| 03:46.20 | dyoung-web | okay just wondering because I got this stuff in the mail about a class action settlement for 75GXP's |
| 03:46.44 | dyoung-web | $100 ea for failed, or 25 blank cds for not failed. |
| 03:46.49 | kas11 | there was an article about the suit on the Inq |
| 03:47.02 | beewoolie-akf | Hmm. |
| 03:47.34 | beewoolie-akf | I've been sticking with Maxtor/Quantum for a few years. Drives have failed, but they've always made good straight away. Most of the time they're rock solid. |
| 03:47.45 | kas11 | seemed to imply only certain serial #s and had to have proof of purchase |
| 03:47.50 | jacques | damn, I had four personal deathstars fail |
| 03:48.00 | jacques | and at work we had 9 out of 10 fail |
| 03:48.33 | dyoung-web | I have close to 30. almost all failed. |
| 03:48.36 | jacques | but since I haven't touched an IBM HD with a 10 meter pole in several years, naturally I don't have PoP |
| 03:48.58 | kas11 | hard to understand how they have a 100,000 hr MTBF but will only stand behind them for 1 yr....seems like a disconnect there somewhere |
| 03:49.56 | kas11 | perhaps they are worried about applications where they drives travel at near the speed of light |
| 03:49.57 | jacques | what I don't understand is how long it took for IBM to admit there was a problem - actually, have they admitted it yet? |
| 03:50.25 | kas11 | tacitly by handing the ball to Hitachi |
| 03:50.30 | dyoung-web | no, the document says "IBM vigorously denies the allegations" |
| 03:51.18 | jacques | that's insane |
| 03:52.09 | kas11 | I need a class action lawsuit again Epson...they need to every CX 5400 they ever sold |
| 03:53.02 | kas11 | s/to every/to eat every/ |
| 03:56.11 | kas11 | 1hr 56 mins to get from stage 1 to stage 2 |
| 03:57.18 | dyoung-web | Oh dammit, I'm not in the class! |
| 03:58.41 | jacques | ? |
| 03:59.07 | kas11 | you don't have a genuine DeathStar, eh? |
| 04:03.30 | beewoolie | kas11: What are you working on? |
| 04:03.50 | dyoung-web | The ones I have/had are excluded. |
| 04:03.57 | kas11 | building Gentoo on an Athlon 64 |
| 04:03.58 | beewoolie | dyoung-web: Too old? Those desks seem to shrink every year. |
| 04:04.03 | dyoung-web | but I might qualify with the 3 I have at home. |
| 04:04.18 | beewoolie | kas11: Hmm. 64bit all the way? |
| 04:05.03 | [g2] | nite all |
| 04:05.08 | beewoolie | [g2]: nite. |
| 04:05.15 | dyoung-web | nitey! |
| 04:06.09 | kas11 | that's what I'm building now....I've been mostly running i386 on the older A64 or avoid the warts |
| 04:06.15 | kas11 | niters [g2] |
| 04:09.54 | kas11 | I have 2 A64...a stock Clawhammer 3200+ and a Winchester 3000+ that is slightly overclocked...this is building on the Winchester |
| 04:10.45 | dyoung-web | New iMac G5.... |
| 04:12.16 | dyoung-web | its nice the new one has GigE |
| 04:12.38 | dyoung-web | but it makes the "older" ones $400 less. ;-) |
| 04:15.18 | dyoung-web | oh hell. |
| 04:15.20 | dyoung-web | Tax. |
| 04:15.31 | kas11 | *lol* tax refund implies income.../me sold older system to finance new |
| 04:16.11 | jacques | since I only had income for < 1/2 of 2004, I am getting some healthy refunds (state and federal) |
| 04:18.35 | kas11 | I have less than $400 in this one....had a server case/ps and a cnps7000 on hand tho |
| 04:19.32 | kas11 | and I didn't spring for ***reallly*** fast memory...so it isn't really a 4000+ |
| 04:23.23 | dyoung-web | back later. |
| 04:44.46 | ka6sox-away | rats! |
| 04:45.12 | kas11 | don't like them |
| 04:45.34 | ka6sox-away | :) |
| 04:45.44 | kas11 | 'zup? |
| 04:46.02 | ka6sox-away | jes got home...long day...bout u? |
| 04:46.29 | kas11 | doin' fine...waiting on a gentoo build to complete |
| 04:50.25 | ka6sox-away | sweet |
| 04:54.23 | kas11 | I wonder if I can get a patent on "a method for resisiting the effect of gravity"....for lack of a better term I'll call it dirt....the PO seems to grant just about anything asked for...be nice to get a piece of the action every time someone uses my "invention" |
| 04:55.06 | ka6sox-away | :) |
| 04:55.29 | kas11 | maybe a been name would be earth...that has a nice ring to it...I hope M$FT or Amazon hasn't beat me to it |
| 04:55.42 | ka6sox-away | lol |
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| 14:47.58 | prpplague | hehe, collecting a nice little group here |
| 15:08.08 | malice | there are a few hehe |
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| 18:45.02 | kas11 | [g2] 5 hrs 35 minutes to a login on a stage 1 build...is that a decent time? |
| 18:45.54 | kas11 | I went to bed after finding an emerge gnome not particularly entertaining ;) |
| 19:09.35 | ka6sox-office | I'll bet that could be pretty boring. |
| 19:23.47 | kas11 | uh huh...especially considering I forgot to enable frame buffer support in the kernel so everything was in a big, ugly console font |
| 19:28.42 | kas11 | I need to do the same thing with the stock 3200+ so I can get an idea whether it is worth finding some DDR-600 so I can run this puppy's memory controller at 1:1 |
| 19:35.29 | kas11 | the upwards locked multiplier on the A64s is a pita...running CPU at 8x * 300mhz but the memory controller is at /12 and the HTT is only at 900 mhz cuz I was too cheap to buy a real 4000+ |
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