| 00:00.34 | *** join/#neo900 atk (~Arch-TK@ircpuzzles/staff/Arch-TK) |
| 00:01.07 | chomwitt | i aggree that 'lowering the barriers' angle could give a little 'push' and love to the project |
| 00:02.26 | chomwitt | the main problem i think is there a point in time where sourcing the materials cant be done , so in that case the project is from the implementation side dead? |
| 00:03.19 | houkime | joerg has a photo with loads of N900 boxes in his archive so there's at least some buffer |
| 00:03.28 | houkime | i don't know how big though |
| 00:03.55 | chomwitt | souldnt there be in a project a 'virtual' responsible for that aspect, and shouldnt 'his' knowledge be public so even the roles of the project can be passed around like the kicad schmeatics or the code? |
| 00:05.10 | chomwitt | i think an open hardware project, to keep alive needs open roles. |
| 00:05.34 | houkime | Joerg-Neo900:good call^^^^^ |
| 00:06.16 | chomwitt | ? |
| 00:07.25 | houkime | it is just how irc works - to grab someone's particular attention you include his nick in the message |
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| 00:08.21 | houkime | I quess now the responsibility and money affairs are on joerg |
| 00:08.37 | houkime | *currently |
| 00:09.09 | chomwitt | i see. |
| 00:10.02 | chomwitt | peertube.social stalls a little , but is cool! |
| 00:10.21 | chomwitt | one moment to see sth |
| 00:10.30 | houkime | atk does web administration, joerg is sort of CEO, wpwrak did a motherload with actual development of sch and tools |
| 00:10.46 | houkime | number of contributors did footprints |
| 00:10.59 | chomwitt | https://system76.com/about <-- i like that page.. |
| 00:11.33 | houkime | pseudoanimations are nice) |
| 00:11.35 | chomwitt | i mean it's a company and seems open to the world |
| 00:11.55 | chomwitt | in a way that makes you feel nice.. |
| 00:12.33 | chomwitt | it makes you feel conected.. cyberconnected... |
| 00:13.54 | chomwitt | and open hardware project could have an about page with virtual roles, and images of people in each role and links to 'data-sets' related to each virtual-role . |
| 00:15.32 | chomwitt | thats my share of little ideas |
| 00:19.49 | *** join/#neo900 infobot (ibot@208.53.50.136) |
| 00:19.49 | *** topic/#neo900 is http://neo900.org | CCCAMP15 lightning talks at http://neo900.org/stuff/cccamp15/ - major: http://neo900.org/stuff/cccamp15/ccc2015talk/neo900-wpwrak_CCC2015.webm | conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23neo900/ and http://irclog.whitequark.org/neo900 | Latest news: http://neo900.org/news/joerg-pia-2018-03-01 |
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| 00:20.10 | chomwitt | so it should be written in the dna of any open hardware project , that there should be a http accessible about page with the virtual roles and each role should have a link to a role-status org file rested in a git repository |
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| 00:21.18 | houkime | btw what do you mean by role-status exactly? |
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| 00:23.19 | *** mode/#neo900 [+q *!*@*179.38.137.178] by Donnager |
| 00:24.00 | chomwitt | each virtual role i think should have a task to accomplish , for example sourcing the materials. So a material-sourcer-status file should contain the status of all the related efforts and the outcome of all the real-persons that helped in that virtual-role's job |
| 00:24.22 | *** mode/#neo900 [-q *!*@*179.38.137.178] by Donnager |
| 00:25.45 | chomwitt | so we need a wiki page for the project. and an about page which i think should follow the layout of the system76's about page but with virtual-images linking to each roles status-org file. |
| 00:26.17 | houkime | hmmm... this is interesting. |
| 00:26.33 | houkime | Joerg also wants a wiki btw |
| 00:28.11 | houkime | can you please structurize your plan into an issue to the planning repo and post it there so it isn't lost? |
| 00:28.31 | houkime | https://notabug.org/Houkime/Neo900-Planning |
| 00:28.34 | chomwitt | well, it make sense to me , all the related info of the current state of each sub-job accessible from one central page |
| 00:28.59 | chomwitt | that also is a 'barrier lowering' cog. |
| 00:30.58 | chomwitt | i'll try to do the 'post' in the planning repo |
| 00:31.32 | houkime | just submit an issue |
| 00:31.41 | houkime | it is as simple as on github |
| 00:31.53 | houkime | exactly the same |
| 00:34.41 | houkime | About helping out with wiki you can talk with atk or Joerg-Neo900 on that. there's a real need here. |
| 00:34.57 | houkime | the websit is open-source so about page is moddable |
| 00:35.03 | houkime | repo is here https://neo900.org/git/www/ |
| 00:35.43 | houkime | it is not as simple as fork+pr to contribute though(( |
| 00:36.55 | houkime | basically now if one wants to make a patch he should make a patchfile and send it with email to atk probably |
| 00:38.43 | houkime | this was a point of my criticism of current git repos on neo900.org a while ago. |
| 00:38.45 | chomwitt | it says its a pelican static site generator |
| 00:39.11 | chomwitt | in python |
| 00:40.46 | chomwitt | so there's no wiki functionality in the site now i think |
| 00:42.06 | chomwitt | is there a thread about that criticism the currend git repos? |
| 00:44.53 | houkime | I linked "www" repo regarding "about" page. Wiki for now was intended not really a part of website itself (like archwiki which is tied to the rest of the site with links) |
| 00:45.31 | houkime | no, no thread yet. i probably need to make one |
| 00:45.49 | houkime | it is somewhat displayed in the readme of the planning repo though |
| 00:51.09 | chomwitt | i've read the Neo900-planning page. |
| 00:54.26 | houkime | there's a mention of fork+pr workflow there which I actually added earlier today for consistency but that's it for now. It obviously should be a repo issue |
| 00:54.39 | chomwitt | in a way u have 3 virtual-roles by know: the hardware guy.. the pcb layouter , the system admin (little fyzzu his job.. thought) and the pr guy! |
| 00:55.52 | houkime | it is fuzzy because it is a flamy topic mainly and thus the constructive discussion is somewhat hindered |
| 00:56.14 | chomwitt | but i think we need also the 'hardware sourcing guy..' and the 'economical' |
| 00:57.21 | chomwitt | asked diaspora channel if i can embed a peertube.social video in a post |
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| 01:07.20 | houkime | there's a possibility that Joerg has talked about sourcing somewhere in his maemo talks but better ask about it when he is around. |
| 01:08.19 | houkime | i have no troubles listing his responsibilities in the repo though |
| 01:09.06 | houkime | with an actual status of sourcing |
| 01:09.31 | chomwitt | i have the feeling thats a highly sensible subject .... |
| 01:10.47 | houkime | i don't really think it is that much sensible. Like, it is for sure not personal (whereas git-related stuff sometimes suddenly gets) |
| 01:13.09 | houkime | It's just that I don't know much more than we have a significant amount of n900s to experiment with |
| 01:13.48 | houkime | and the joerg is not currently around to talk numbers |
| 01:19.14 | chomwitt | i sense thats there are fears that either should be met , discussed and solved or there would be more stagnation . |
| 01:19.41 | houkime | I think what we need is an economical report |
| 01:19.58 | houkime | like any normal open project |
| 01:20.03 | chomwitt | +1 on that |
| 01:20.51 | chomwitt | we should put that on the plan you initiated |
| 01:21.56 | chomwitt | but as i said where money is involved things could become litte bumpy.. |
| 01:21.58 | chomwitt | :-) |
| 01:22.35 | chomwitt | but as i also said ...fears not met and discussed will consume the life of it |
| 01:23.21 | houkime | yeeep... Money is a thing that separates people from openly available neo900 layout btw |
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| 01:23.25 | chomwitt | thinks .. a philosopher could be also usefull ... |
| 01:23.26 | chomwitt | :-) |
| 01:24.19 | chomwitt | i should take a look at sparkfun model by the way |
| 01:25.21 | houkime | there's a strange piece of logic that joerg uses to justify semi-closed state that includes chinese copycats making cheap stuff |
| 01:25.50 | houkime | howeer i myself see it as a little paranoidal for an esoteric device like neo900. |
| 01:26.48 | houkime | also here's the thing that i don't think backers would really object if neo900 chinese clones will get done ahead of vanilla one |
| 01:27.34 | chomwitt | well ... if there was a choice in a semi-closed approach i think by know its weaknesses and strengths should have been made visible. |
| 01:28.18 | chomwitt | even the general approach of a project should be under git !! :-) |
| 01:29.24 | houkime | well, you won't have trouble accessing the layout now, it just involves talks with people. |
| 01:30.02 | chomwitt | leaders of neo900 surrander your memory banks to the RMS deity for update and upgrade or behold of his wrath!!! :-) |
| 01:34.27 | houkime | whatever, make issues, talk with us in here and we will see where it can go. |
| 01:35.16 | chomwitt | anyway serious job has been done and trying to protect it is reasonable and fair i think.. but that counter to an open approach that could keep a project afloat like a phoenix :-) |
| 01:36.19 | houkime | I think that securiy measures right now are unreasonable for the project current state |
| 01:36.40 | chomwitt | the middle ground should be reassesed and find its weaknesses and fix them. |
| 01:37.49 | houkime | Not just this, but in general have more community-centric approach |
| 01:38.05 | houkime | that's a thing that I'm trying to fix right now |
| 01:39.29 | houkime | basically now the community should defeat joerg |
| 01:39.31 | houkime | )) |
| 01:41.21 | houkime | well at least that part of him that might impede progress |
| 01:42.15 | houkime | need to note though that many problems right now arise just because of small people count |
| 01:44.10 | houkime | where is no community in place - many bad decisions happen |
| 01:45.44 | houkime | Sparkfun is wonderful |
| 01:46.24 | houkime | they try to educate people, have nice general pcb howtos and videos. |
| 01:47.27 | houkime | Basically they try to solve the main problem if open hardware - people being afraid to dive in |
| 01:51.56 | houkime | sicelo: sorry, your comment somehow got marked as review needed |
| 01:52.34 | houkime | sicelo: I don't really know why since i remember making more liberal settings |
| 01:55.06 | houkime | sicelo: and I recheck them now and there're no filters or limitations. |
| 01:56.26 | houkime | sicelo: it seems like a youTube glitch |
| 01:56.48 | chomwitt | on the other hand .. dragonbox seems to be semi-closed but more near to its goal... that could be a counterargument to open up.. |
| 01:57.14 | houkime | chomwitt: it is more complex than that |
| 01:57.44 | houkime | the thing is that now neo900 is severely undermanned |
| 01:57.56 | chomwitt | isnt dragonbox semi-closed or even more closed? |
| 01:59.00 | houkime | chomwitt: closed source hits undermanned groups more |
| 01:59.41 | chomwitt | i see. valid argument i think |
| 02:02.21 | houkime | if we had a nice full core team we would have almost zero problems with semiclosed. However if one relies on community, or forced to rely on it, closing up is not a real option i think |
| 02:02.50 | chomwitt | but in an undermanned project the 'mans' left dont have the power to hold the world still if their fears are not solved and have put their personal work in it? |
| 02:05.05 | chomwitt | i mean if that project is semi-closed then there is ownership ...period. you cant open that someone feels he owns it. |
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| 02:06.38 | chomwitt | and then u need also a layer with the power of great alexander to resolve knots. |
| 02:06.39 | *** mode/#neo900 [+q *!*@*91.63.34.145] by Donnager |
| 02:07.08 | chomwitt | who 'owns' what and that kind of stuff that could also stagnate a project |
| 02:07.41 | *** mode/#neo900 [-q *!*@*91.63.34.145] by Donnager |
| 02:07.53 | chomwitt | so here i am speaking with no fear!! i hope that helps .. :-) |
| 02:09.06 | houkime | thx |
| 02:09.30 | houkime | now i need to go sleep since biology |
| 02:10.26 | houkime | then we will discuss the future of the planning repo and stuff |
| 02:10.33 | chomwitt | ok. |
| 02:10.40 | chomwitt | see u! |
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