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| 00:28.12 | *** topic/#kde is KDE Plasma 5.9 and KDE Applications 16.12 are out! See www.kde.org | http://userbase.kde.org | http://forum.kde.org | Don't flood the channel, use http://paste.kde.org | Distro related questions go in your distro channel | Offtopic in #kde-chat | State your distribution and KDE version when asking questions | Don't delete ~/.kde,~/.kde4, ~/.local or ~/.config |
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| 00:31.47 | GreeningGalaxy | anybody got facebook working with KTP yet? |
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| 00:46.47 | GreeningGalaxy | fsefseffjfjfj |
| 00:46.53 | GreeningGalaxy | oops |
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| 01:31.48 | dysfigured | can i disable the title bar and all the buttons in the window decorations? |
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| 01:33.44 | kishore96 | dysfigured: There are window decoration themes that do that. For example, Yosemite and KDE-gaps. |
| 01:34.12 | kishore96 | You should be able to find them in the 'get new window decorations' thingy. |
| 01:34.34 | dysfigured | ah, so it's a particular window decoration? not just a setting? :\ |
| 01:35.02 | kishore96 | Not a setting, AFAIK. |
| 01:36.15 | kishore96 | dysfigured: If you want, you can diasable the titlebar and borders together through a setting, but not individually. |
| 01:36.20 | kishore96 | *disable |
| 01:36.40 | dysfigured | is there a setting to use the super key instead of alt for mouse drag resize/move ? |
| 01:37.31 | kishore96 | Settings>Window management>Window behaviour>Window actions>(modifier key) |
| 01:37.34 | dysfigured | ah that would be great! i've been scouring for a way to disable the titlebar. i see the one for the borders, and i don't mind those |
| 01:38.20 | kishore96 | dysfigured: You'll need to make a window rule that applies to all windows, and check the 'remove titlebar and borders' option. |
| 01:39.30 | dysfigured | aha! nice, thaks a lot! |
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| 02:07.26 | kafloopascope | Hello! It seems that the plasma panel sizing behavior recently changed. It used to be that you could set a very low minimum width, and the panel would shrink as much as possible _without_ cutting off any of the applets. Now, it cuts off some of the systray applet with a low minimum width. I'm using plasma desktop 5.9.4. Can anyone confirm if this is the same on their desktop (and with what plasma desktop version), or if this is |
| 02:07.26 | kafloopascope | working as intended for some reason? 16-second video of the questionable behavior: https://transfer.sh/13TOmy/misbehaving_panel.mkv |
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| 02:56.35 | Zren | Hmmm, when was 5.9.4 released? there was a wrapmode change 4 days ago. |
| 02:56.41 | Zren | https://github.com/KDE/plasma-desktop/blame/master/applets/taskmanager/package/contents/ui/Task.qml#L483 |
| 02:56.50 | Zren | might not be it |
| 02:58.37 | Zren | though it might be in the panel.qml |
| 02:58.58 | Zren | oh wait that's the systray |
| 02:59.22 | Zren | can't read |
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| 04:02.30 | kafloopascope | I tried rolling back a few things, didn't notice a difference. I'll experiment to see how specific the problem is and then bug report if it's not there already. |
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| 06:05.04 | pragomer_1 | how can I mount iso with dolphin (16.08) ? |
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| 07:45.22 | laughingtiger | hi everyone is there a way to install plasma-netspeed-widget in debian kde? I tried but it became the old linux dependencies loop problem. |
| 07:46.02 | shtrb | can you link to it ? I wil check if possible |
| 07:46.39 | shtrb | there is one "net speed" widget in sid , but I don't know if that is the one you need |
| 07:46.59 | laughingtiger | https://github.com/dfaust/plasma-applet-netspeed-widget |
| 07:47.48 | laughingtiger | shtrb, what's the name of that one? |
| 07:48.26 | shtrb | network monitor |
| 07:49.04 | laughingtiger | yeah I know that, it can't show speed, only a chart, useless |
| 07:49.25 | ltosky[m] | it may be a dependency problem, but not a loop (and generic on all platforms where you compile) |
| 07:49.28 | shtrb | btw , most net speed doesn't take the actuall speed |
| 07:49.59 | laughingtiger | that's not true shtrb , mate has a perfect one to show exact ream time speed |
| 07:50.00 | shtrb | I use vmstat and a script that interact with a modem to get the actual "speeds" |
| 07:50.10 | laughingtiger | time |
| 07:50.12 | ltosky[m] | the cmake file shows a dependency on extra-cmake-modules and KF5::Plasma, which are the baseline |
| 07:50.39 | laughingtiger | ltosky[m], you mean I can finally install all the dependencies? |
| 07:50.57 | ltosky[m] | why "finally"? |
| 07:51.47 | ltosky[m] | something like libkf5plasma-dev for the latter, and that same for the former dependency |
| 07:51.47 | laughingtiger | I mean it's possible, just to install one by one? |
| 07:52.09 | ltosky[m] | I'm not sure I get it |
| 07:52.29 | shtrb | What I meant is , your "speed" is not only the amount of data sent /recived per time over ppp but also speed on the upper links (so when you complain to your ISP that you are getting less than what you pay for he nicly show you the fine print ) |
| 07:52.57 | ltosky[m] | They are packages like any others, you can install them in one command if you know the names |
| 07:53.12 | ltosky[m] | (or, yes, one by one) |
| 07:53.47 | laughingtiger | I mean sometimes to install this dependency I have to install another one, but that one depends on another one, and finally some software is not available or I have to keep going on for this like infinitely. |
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| 07:55.10 | ltosky[m] | as I said, those are basic dependencies provided by the Frameworks (extra-cmake-modules) and Plasma projects |
| 07:55.19 | laughingtiger | ltosky[m], the dependencies for this widget are not in the apt source, I have to download them and install them |
| 07:55.20 | ltosky[m] | and they are packaged |
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| 07:56.03 | laughingtiger | no result found on searching "extra-cmake" |
| 07:56.13 | ltosky[m] | no, the code of the widget is not packaged and you have to compile it; its dependecies are packaged |
| 07:56.39 | ltosky[m] | Which version of debian? |
| 07:56.46 | laughingtiger | yeah I know what you mean, but what's the name of the packaged pack? |
| 07:56.55 | laughingtiger | kde jessie |
| 07:57.02 | shtrb | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:57.29 | laughingtiger | shtrb, you installed it ? |
| 07:57.38 | shtrb | jessie is stable |
| 07:57.38 | ltosky[m] | that widget is not for you version of Plasma |
| 07:57.40 | shtrb | not yet |
| 07:58.01 | shtrb | layghingtiger , your versions are too old (you are on stable) |
| 07:58.18 | ltosky[m] | you need to find a widget for the old version of Plasma (4) |
| 07:58.44 | shtrb | or to check if 5.8 are ported back to stable |
| 07:59.07 | laughingtiger | so jessie uses plasma 4? |
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| 07:59.36 | ltosky[m] | check the version of packages, or run kinfocenter |
| 07:59.46 | shtrb | sorry , jessy is oldstable not even stable (yes it uses 4.8.4) |
| 08:00.22 | shtrb | your chances are better with strech |
| 08:00.37 | shtrb | checking the name of the repository that had plasma for jessy |
| 08:00.46 | ltosky[m] | No, it'st the current stable, with plasma 4.11 |
| 08:01.39 | laughingtiger | shtrb, I see how careless I was to think sid is older than jessie. sid is the latest isn't it? |
| 08:01.43 | shtrb | so I was wrong again , thanks Itosky |
| 08:01.52 | shtrb | sid is unsable |
| 08:02.11 | shtrb | laughingtiger , check jessy-backports |
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| 08:02.34 | shtrb | if they have the needed elements , but If you avoid that and just switch to sid |
| 08:02.58 | shtrb | *jessie-backports |
| 08:03.07 | laughingtiger | yeah I get it now thank you both |
| 08:03.22 | ltosky[m] | No, it would be such big update that it makes sense to simply go to stretch |
| 08:03.40 | ltosky[m] | which is currently frozen |
| 08:04.12 | shtrb | <PROTECTED> |
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| 08:04.44 | shtrb | but checking backports should at least be done |
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| 08:09.08 | laughingtiger | shtrb, backports has not such a widget. giving up. |
| 08:09.42 | shtrb | no , the backports may have a updated plasma (your dependiencies) |
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| 08:11.42 | laughingtiger | no has not those either. |
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| 08:14.45 | shtrb | so as other said either strech or sid |
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| 10:31.41 | crzyp3ck | Hello |
| 10:32.45 | crzyp3ck | KDE5. How could I change the kde qt apps like kate dolphin out side the kde plasam sessions. like say in openbox-blackbox-.... session! |
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| 10:41.10 | tosky | crzyp3ck: do you mean that you want to change the style of applications when not run inside Plasma? |
| 10:41.23 | tosky | crzyp3ck: if your distribution provides it, use qt5ct |
| 10:41.26 | tosky | and there is no KDE5 |
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| 11:11.27 | crzyp3ck | tosky: No need for qt5ct. I solved it by **XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=kde**. I just want to export it globally. How should I go about doing it? |
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| 11:15.28 | BluesKaj | Hiyas all |
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| 11:42.41 | tosky | crzyp3ck: that's kind of workaround though, as you depend on a component (a Qt plugin) which is meant to be used under Plasma |
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| 12:16.04 | crzyp3ck | tosky: yes I know |
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| 12:18.56 | namron | can I have a seperate file transfer dialog under plasma5 dolphin? I disabled ;track file transfers...' in the notification settings, but still transfer progress is only displayed in the dolphin task manager icon. not a seperate window |
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| 12:23.16 | kishore96 | namron: 'Track file transfers' gives you a progress notification in the notification area. |
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| 12:30.19 | namron | I know, but thats exactly not what I want. I want transfer info in a seperate window. like in windows... |
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| 13:54.57 | AMDmi3 | hey; am I correct that kde4 apps have versions 4.x and kde5 are 16.y ? |
| 13:57.52 | leszek | AMDmi3: KDE Applications are packaged togehter as KDE Applications with the number of the Year YY and month of release MM. So basically YY.MM |
| 13:58.09 | leszek | most of those KDE Applications are now based on kf5 |
| 13:58.29 | leszek | back in KDE SC the applications were part of KDE SC and followed the versioning of KDE SC |
| 13:58.49 | tosky | AMDmi3: also, KDE Applications is a bundle of applications; Plasma (there is no kde5) is released on its own release schedule and its version number |
| 13:59.06 | tosky | (libraries known as Frameworks have again another release schedule) |
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| 14:03.04 | AMDmi3 | tosky: leszek: kde terminology is not my strong side; what I need is to take these https://repology.org/metapackages/all/?search=konsole (kde/plasma packages from different distos) and merge them into one or two entries |
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| 14:04.02 | tosky | AMDmi3: I see there duplicated packages; for example konsole4 and konsole5 are the same thing, just in different times |
| 14:04.11 | AMDmi3 | so, if i take kde4-konsole, kde5-konsole, konsole, konsole4, konsole-kde4, konsole4, konsole5, plasma5-konsole, mix them into single entity, and then split into kde4-konsole/kde5-konsole based on version (4.x or > 4.x), would I be doing right thing? |
| 14:04.30 | AMDmi3 | or should it just be a single konsole entity? |
| 14:04.39 | leszek | AMDmi3: as for konsole the version number with 4.x are basically kde4libs based and everything else KDE Frameworks 5 based |
| 14:04.41 | tosky | single entity |
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| 14:05.07 | tosky | do you have different entities for firefox51 and firefox52? |
| 14:05.14 | tosky | it's the same for konsole4 and konsole5 |
| 14:05.27 | tosky | (kde5-konsole is so wrong name, but that depend on the distribution, I should complain there) |
| 14:06.13 | tosky | for example: https://repology.org/metapackages/all/?search=okular -> some versions are kdelibs4-based, some are Frameworks based, still okular |
| 14:06.21 | tosky | what is your goal exactly? |
| 14:06.33 | AMDmi3 | I just though these could be essentially different desktop environments like kde3/trinity vs. latest kde (4? 5?) are |
| 14:06.54 | tosky | let's start from: kde is not a desktop environment |
| 14:07.01 | tosky | konsole is not the desktop environment |
| 14:07.23 | tosky | if you want to compare KDE3 (at that time the name was the desktop environment) with Plasma 4 and Plasma 5, well |
| 14:07.37 | tosky | Plasma 4 was a complete new code; Plasma 5 is an evolution of Plasma 4 |
| 14:07.54 | tosky | the other applications evolved on their own (like konsole and okular) |
| 14:07.59 | AMDmi3 | okay, now it's getting clear |
| 14:08.21 | AMDmi3 | single konsole package it is then, thanks for clarification! |
| 14:08.28 | leszek | AMDmi3: these are two different versions based on different frameworks. However you can run konsole5 on KDE SC 4 (with the correct dependencies on KF5 and Qt5 are fullfilled) |
| 14:09.16 | leszek | AMDmi3: so basically you have to ask yourself do you want konsole4 and konsole5 or only the latest version. Merging konsole4 and 5 to one package won't work |
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| 14:09.47 | tosky | you see konsole4 and konsole5 at the same time because few applications were not ported to Frameworks, but they required konsole, so both versions (or part of them) had to be packaged |
| 14:09.50 | tosky | not the same for okular |
| 14:10.00 | tosky | otherwise you would have seen just "konsole" |
| 14:11.05 | tosky | AMDmi3: this was the original brand change, 8 years ago: https://dot.kde.org/2009/11/24/repositioning-kde-brand |
| 14:11.17 | tosky | AMDmi3: and also, more recent changes: https://dot.kde.org/2014/06/26/where-kde-going-part-1 https://dot.kde.org/2014/07/02/where-kde-going-part-2 |
| 14:11.45 | AMDmi3 | it's the same for okular, it's just that I've merged it already; https://repology.org/metapackage/okular/versions -> there are kde4-okular and kde5-okular (in the same repo) |
| 14:12.29 | tosky | AMDmi3: oh, so do you work on that site? |
| 14:12.57 | AMDmi3 | what is important for me is that these (konsole 4/5, okular 4/5) are not separate projects developerd in parallel |
| 14:13.03 | AMDmi3 | tosky: yes, I'm its author |
| 14:13.11 | tosky | ah, nice |
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| 14:13.49 | tosky | AMDmi3: the report was added here for example: https://okular.kde.org/download.php |
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| 14:16.56 | AMDmi3 | tosky: yes, I've seen a lot of hits from there. would be nice to make it backlink to repology :) |
| 14:17.10 | tosky | I will tell Albert |
| 14:17.21 | tosky | I think he added it quickly one evening |
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| 14:19.26 | AMDmi3 | thanks! |
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| 16:14.28 | Martiini | I'm unable to write into kde dialogs (arch kde 5.9) |
| 16:16.15 | tosky | what do you mean by dialog? The file open/save dialogs? |
| 16:16.20 | tosky | (plasma 5.9, right?) |
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| 20:31.26 | guoyunhe | is ktorrent still under development? |
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| 20:39.53 | mike-zal | guoyunhe: who needs ktorrent if you have qbittorrent? |
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| 20:41.25 | guoyunhe | mike-zal: there are still a lot of users like me. it is the default bittorrent client in kde |
| 20:41.53 | tosky | it is by kde, not in kde |
| 20:42.12 | tosky | well, the only bittorrent client by kde |
| 20:42.19 | asturm | while it starts with a k, that doesn't make it a default |
| 20:44.30 | mike-zal | guoyunhe: it's pointless to use native DE programm if there are better alternatives. that is why conqueror is not existent anymore |
| 20:44.56 | mike-zal | and that is why most distros go with ff or chrome, no matter if they are qt or gtk based |
| 20:45.25 | tosky | konqueror still exists; apart from that, the point about choosing is relevant |
| 20:45.49 | tosky | (on the other side, ktorrent still works, so if you are used to it, just use it) |
| 20:45.53 | mike-zal | qbittorrent is excelent program. I often wonders, why so often they let this shitty qtransmission, instead so much feature rich qbittorrent |
| 20:46.35 | mike-zal | tosky: still exists? are you kidding me? it exists in the same way all old things, as archive, not being used. it's dead. |
| 20:47.09 | asturm | mike-zal: its recent release is based on qtwebengine, which uses the same blink underpinnings as chromium |
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| 20:47.11 | tosky | mike-zal: no |
| 20:47.40 | tosky | mike-zal: it's not used and I would not use as default browser or default file manager, but it's far from dead |
| 20:48.11 | mike-zal | maybe you're right, but it's dead to community. |
| 20:48.22 | tosky | to be precise, it is not based on qtwebengine in itself; it is a container of components, and there is a new wrapper around qtwebengine |
| 20:48.37 | asturm | you would be surprised how many people still use konqueror as a file manager and browser |
| 20:48.42 | tosky | mike-zal: surprisinly wrong again, and I can point few emails about few strong users |
| 20:48.58 | tosky | mike-zal: again, it is definitely less used and not suggested etc etc, but it is not dead |
| 20:48.59 | mike-zal | kde has a lot of great stuff, konueror is not one of them. neither is networking suite. |
| 20:49.15 | tosky | if it is dead for you, that's another story |
| 20:49.21 | tosky | what do you mean by "networking suite"? |
| 20:50.29 | mike-zal | tosky: I never saw konqueror shipped by default with any distro by default, also people don't talk about it, no serious qt distro uses it |
| 20:51.01 | tosky | mike-zal: it was shipped by default in Fedora until 3 or 4 releases ago |
| 20:51.14 | tosky | again, if you don't use it, it's fine; it's just that it's not dead |
| 20:51.28 | tosky | I would ask again what is the "networking suite" |
| 20:51.38 | mike-zal | tosky: I mean online accounts. this should be scratched and developed again from the ground up |
| 20:51.53 | tosky | one of the basic libraries allows for network transparencies, so I'm not sure what did you mean |
| 20:51.58 | mike-zal | tosky: it might as well be dead |
| 20:52.15 | asturm | systemsettings/online accounts? |
| 20:52.40 | mike-zal | first, people get confused: they see onlne accounts and then think, they can somehow sync their accounts with a system |
| 20:52.58 | mike-zal | gnome allows for that a bit, but plasma doesn't have it |
| 20:53.15 | mike-zal | it's just some additional chat things |
| 20:53.32 | asturm | are these not online accounts? |
| 20:53.33 | tosky | that's not a problem with the infrastructure |
| 20:53.46 | mike-zal | and agin, no one uses it and distros often doesn't ship with packages needed to run it |
| 20:53.56 | tosky | again, if you don't use it is fine |
| 20:54.10 | sspencer | Rant rant. |
| 20:54.14 | mike-zal | asturm: this shouldn't be named online accounts |
| 20:54.26 | tosky | mike-zal: it is |
| 20:54.31 | asturm | mike-zal: that's your opinion, and that's fine |
| 20:54.38 | mike-zal | people go, add for example google and then.... nothing happens, no effect |
| 20:54.40 | tosky | for what I remember, the frameworks allows what you say |
| 20:55.05 | sspencer | mike-zal: Start your own distro. |
| 20:55.36 | mike-zal | nope, I tested it and discussed with some old plasma and kde users, it's only chat apps, no real online sync |
| 20:55.47 | asturm | mike-zal: it's not called online sync |
| 20:56.27 | tosky | mike-zal: did you talk with users or developers? |
| 20:56.35 | tosky | again, the framework allows for it |
| 20:56.51 | mike-zal | allows for what? |
| 20:56.59 | tosky | the use case that your described |
| 20:57.11 | mike-zal | did you ever tried it? |
| 20:57.44 | tosky | did you ever listen? |
| 20:57.49 | mike-zal | I did, this doesn't work. unless they somehow fixed it |
| 20:57.58 | tosky | I said that the framework allows for it |
| 20:58.04 | tosky | the application don't use it |
| 20:58.09 | tosky | applications* |
| 20:58.31 | mike-zal | tosky: please, I am not english native speaker so it's sometimes hard to follow specific words |
| 20:59.07 | mike-zal | and since I see my native langues on computer, I often don't know how they are named in english |
| 20:59.16 | mike-zal | so I can only loosly translate them |
| 21:00.09 | asturm | mike-zal: but online accounts is a perfectly fine menu item to present me with the possibility of adding jabber, telegram etc. accounts to telepathy |
| 21:00.33 | mike-zal | yeah, like I said, messeging apps only |
| 21:00.37 | asturm | yeah |
| 21:00.44 | tosky | because only ktp use it |
| 21:01.01 | tosky | but it does not mean that only ktp *can* use it |
| 21:01.11 | mike-zal | what's ktp? |
| 21:01.38 | asturm | the instant messaging client |
| 21:02.19 | asturm | btw I do think that KDE PIM is using the google account you're adding there for calendar sync |
| 21:02.31 | mike-zal | asturm: no |
| 21:02.45 | asturm | I don't remember configuring it somewhere else, but I may be wrong |
| 21:03.00 | asturm | ah, contacts sync |
| 21:03.02 | mike-zal | asturm: you need to set google link seperately on different place. google login from syste settings does nothing |
| 21:03.14 | tosky | sighs |
| 21:03.39 | mike-zal | I set korganizer and was also confoused about it at first |
| 21:04.02 | tosky | as I said: yes, there is no integration *now*, it does not mean that it can't be |
| 21:04.11 | mike-zal | for a long time I couldn't figure it out how to make that link because I though I did though those "online accounts" |
| 21:04.47 | mike-zal | tosky: I am not talking about what can be. can be everything. and I just hope it will be in the future, although there is no hurry. |
| 21:06.51 | tosky | so let's change the name to "chats account" and change it back to online accounts as soon as a different application uses it? |
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| 21:08.12 | mike-zal | as to those online accounts, how does it work now? I linked to google, I was presented with one choice with a question, how do I want to use it and there was youtube to mark. so I did and... half a year is passed and I never saw any system info or whatever that would show it works |
| 21:08.42 | mike-zal | tosky: yeah, chat accounts is a proper name for now. if they add something more, then yeah, they can change it back |
| 21:08.58 | asturm | what's wrong with online accounts? |
| 21:09.14 | tosky | that's not how it works |
| 21:09.15 | asturm | if it somehow has a different meaning in your translation, that's a point to raise with your translations team, no? |
| 21:11.03 | mike-zal | when I first tried it, it confused me, because it wasn't doing anything, so I started researching and found many others who were also confused and dissapoited, then I saw articles and vids and so on and they agree on one thing: there is no real online accounts/sync, or whatever you can call it, in plasma at the moment. |
| 21:11.28 | asturm | what do you think is an online account? |
| 21:12.12 | asturm | it seems you rather think of it in a very specific manner |
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| 21:12.26 | mike-zal | well, thas the thing: this is too broad term, but usually it's meant for most popular social media accounts |
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| 21:13.09 | mike-zal | asturm: did you tried it? what does it do for you? |
| 21:13.32 | asturm | mike-zal: I've got jabber, hangouts and icq connected? |
| 21:13.42 | asturm | these are all... online accounts |
| 21:14.00 | asturm | now, I don't use ownclowd, but apparently that would be an option too |
| 21:14.01 | mike-zal | no, those are messaging accounts |
| 21:14.20 | asturm | *cloud |
| 21:14.46 | asturm | mike-zal: hangouts is *using* your google account for messaging |
| 21:14.51 | mike-zal | in a way, yeah, they are online accounts but not in a way people think right now. messaging through apps is not as popular as some years ago |
| 21:15.18 | tosky | the frameworks is for online accounts |
| 21:15.21 | tosky | framework* |
| 21:16.06 | mike-zal | asturm: yes, but it's only for messaging. that's the confusing part. plasma doesn't show you what it will do. you link to google, not hangouts, to google and I might expect to see some various google things on desktop, but nope. |
| 21:16.24 | mike-zal | unless you see specifically name google hangouts. |
| 21:16.42 | tosky | it's only used by that application. so you link it to messaging, but the system is generic |
| 21:16.44 | tosky | so no |
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| 21:17.03 | mike-zal | but it doesn't do antyhing more. |
| 21:17.30 | mike-zal | and oh, what packages do I need to get those possibilities on the menu? |
| 21:18.12 | tosky | which menu? |
| 21:18.26 | asturm | tosky: systemsettings/online accounts |
| 21:18.37 | mike-zal | the funny thing was: my distro had "online accounts" in settings, but no way to add anything, because packages are not there. I add some and I see only google and twitter. like I said, linked to goole and it does nothing. for korganizer I had to set it elesewhere. |
| 21:18.38 | tosky | that's a... ok |
| 21:18.40 | tosky | nevermind |
| 21:19.10 | tosky | like I said, it does something, and the framework is generic |
| 21:19.21 | mike-zal | I saw some screens with various options but to get them, I must install something, no clue what |
| 21:19.31 | tosky | the integration is missing somewhere else (in the application), but the framework is for online accounts |
| 21:19.52 | tosky | complain with your packagers, this is not related to the upstream distribution |
| 21:19.53 | mike-zal | tosky: if that were troue, one connection should rulle the all ;) |
| 21:20.08 | tosky | it is true |
| 21:20.19 | mike-zal | so for example: I set google and I can use google calendar in korganizer, hangouts, gmail and stuff |
| 21:20.20 | tosky | did I already write that the integration is missing, but it's not a problem with the framework nor with its name? |
| 21:20.44 | mike-zal | I am not taling about framework |
| 21:20.50 | tosky | yes, you are |
| 21:21.01 | tosky | you are discussing about the name of "online accounts" |
| 21:21.24 | tosky | so the name of the thing that stores the account and provides an interface to the programs to retrieve those credentials |
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| 21:21.34 | mike-zal | tosky: so you are saying that kde did framework and then kde forgot to add applications to make the name justice? |
| 21:21.36 | tosky | the framework is made generic |
| 21:21.42 | tosky | there is "kde did" |
| 21:22.06 | mike-zal | yeah, there is no plasma team. plasma is made by kde. |
| 21:22.23 | tosky | KDE is a community, which means made by many people, many projects with different developers (some shared around) and not the same manpower |
| 21:22.25 | tosky | no |
| 21:22.36 | tosky | there is totally a Plasma team |
| 21:22.41 | tosky | like there is a KDEPIM team |
| 21:22.46 | tosky | or an Ark team |
| 21:23.04 | tosky | even if many smaller applications are more one-developer |
| 21:23.09 | tosky | all part of the community |
| 21:24.00 | mike-zal | tosky: but they all are part of kde, so we name them kde. in fact, I see frequently phrase "plasma made by kde" |
| 21:24.08 | tosky | there is no "forgot"; that framework was born in project (in KDE), other developer (still in KDE) did not do the integration |
| 21:24.26 | mike-zal | yes |
| 21:24.31 | tosky | it's a shorthand for the "made by the KDE community", but not everyone in the KDE community does Plasma |
| 21:24.39 | tosky | the people working on Plasma are the Plasma team |
| 21:24.46 | tosky | I'm not part of the Plasma team for example |
| 21:25.19 | tosky | so, again, the lack of integration is a problem of manpower |
| 21:25.25 | mike-zal | are you part of kde? what are you working on? just being curious |
| 21:25.25 | tosky | but the framework is generic |
| 21:25.51 | tosky | localization and localization infrastructure, documentation infrastructure, and contributions to few applications |
| 21:27.18 | mike-zal | well, like I said, I hope that in some future we get more cohesive system. at the moment it's not user friendly. again, no hurry, there are more important things |
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| 21:30.41 | mike-zal | tosky: I assume, documentation is joined effort? will there be some better organization for documentation team? I mean: some core team that do plans and organize various sub-teams toward goals |
| 21:32.00 | mike-zal | because at the moment documentaion sucks and is scattered and in many cases obsolete and incomplete. kde and plasma is too big and it seems that documentation alone is too big taks, hence the chaos (from a user standpoint) |
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| 21:33.23 | tosky | mike-zal: documentation used to be a bigger team, and to be precise I'm talking about user documentation, not developers or sysadmin documentation |
| 21:33.28 | mike-zal | and because plasma is more complex then other DEs, it needs a good documentation project and team more |
| 21:33.42 | tosky | patches always welcome |
| 21:34.02 | tosky | and bug reports too |
| 21:34.25 | tosky | the user documentation should not be scattered, though; it's the one from docs.kde.org |
| 21:34.59 | mike-zal | if only it was a good source :( |
| 21:35.07 | mike-zal | many times it failed me |
| 21:35.27 | tosky | so file a bug |
| 21:35.36 | mike-zal | and the artckled there were often from plasma 4 times |
| 21:35.43 | tosky | did you check recently? |
| 21:35.57 | mike-zal | I check it on the need to know basis |
| 21:36.16 | mike-zal | and in most cases, I am deeply unsatisfied and left without answers |
| 21:36.22 | tosky | so file a bug |
| 21:36.33 | mike-zal | didn't know that my lack of satisfation is a bug ;) |
| 21:36.47 | tosky | do you remember something specific that was not there? |
| 21:37.00 | mike-zal | what do I tell then: fix this aritcle? update it? write more? |
| 21:37.32 | tosky | the content of the bug depends on the specific issue |
| 21:37.55 | mike-zal | unfortunatelly, not at the moment. I just found an article about that specifc program and... there was barely anything useful there or old stuff so I left and didn't look back |
| 21:38.25 | mike-zal | it's impossible to file a bugs on such things. when you look for information, you just move on to another source. |
| 21:39.45 | mike-zal | I know that akonadi stuff was horrible. if not some friends, I would naver made korganizer to work. akonadi manager was a crutial package to get and only from there I could set it correctly. |
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| 21:40.58 | mike-zal | and of course I wouldn't know about it by researching, because 1: I don't looked for it specifically because I didn't know it exits, 2. akonadi documentation was badly written and didn't point it to it |
| 21:41.29 | mike-zal | at the moment, the best documentation on plasma are some youtube videos |
| 21:42.39 | mike-zal | those are ones that I can recommend, while written documentation is underdeveloped. I guess it's more fun to develop kde itself (in general sense) then write a documentation |
| 21:43.53 | tosky | I'd really like to have more examples |
| 21:44.04 | tosky | the kmail documentation has a section about troubleshooting |
| 21:44.20 | mike-zal | don't use kmail |
| 21:44.20 | tosky | also for plasma, examples |
| 21:44.33 | mike-zal | it's enough to look at the main site: https://docs.kde.org/ |
| 21:44.35 | tosky | fine, but that's not the point |
| 21:44.42 | mike-zal | this is so out of this world |
| 21:44.46 | tosky | yes, thanks |
| 21:44.57 | tosky | but we are talking about the content now, aren't we? |
| 21:45.17 | tosky | also, it's the same content you get from F1 inside the application or from khelpcenter |
| 21:45.46 | tosky | (for the website, any help is accepted, especially now with the new main style from kde.org) |
| 21:46.00 | mike-zal | honestly? those system helps were never helpful. the same issue was on windows for years and the same is on kde |
| 21:46.28 | tosky | again, never, like the "no one" above |
| 21:46.42 | tosky | never helpful for you? |
| 21:47.09 | tosky | honestly, now you know that you can report the issue |
| 21:48.22 | mike-zal | ok, maybe I am not fair. some of those system documentations are extensive but I never found there what I was lookin for. maybe I was just unlucky, but google seems to be more helpful in most cases ;) |
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| 21:50.03 | mike-zal | maybe it's because google search algorithms are more flexible and there is more natural base (various languages, forums, questions, mistakes, etc) |
| 21:50.45 | mike-zal | in official documenation you need to know what to look for and you often miss that part |
| 21:51.09 | asturm | maybe thanks to google we have forgot how to look up information without guidance of a search engine |
| 21:51.16 | asturm | ;) |
| 21:52.16 | mike-zal | no, it's just, google and web is much better resource then any rigid, text that is only english, while your system is localised.. |
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| 21:57.20 | valorie | I find the included docs to be great to get an overview |
| 21:57.44 | valorie | but mike-zal is right about pinpointing a problem > solution |
| 21:57.49 | valorie | google is faster |
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| 21:58.07 | valorie | even if they just point to the docs |
| 22:00.48 | tosky | anecdotically, both docs.kde.org (with its limits) and khelpcenter (a bit more recently) have an internal search, so at least trying some keywords should help |
| 22:01.52 | valorie | tosky: I usually try that first, and if I know enough to get the right keyword, it works like a charm |
| 22:02.04 | valorie | usually too ignorant to get the right one though |
| 22:02.27 | valorie | goes off to pull weeds in the garden |
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| 23:41.41 | koko | Hi there, is there a way to disable the OSD screen of kmix .. I'm using the kde neon Community Edition |
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| 23:48.10 | delight | Hi there, is there a way to disable the OSD screen of kmix .. I'm using the kde neon 5.9 / plasma 5.9.4 / kde framework version 5.32.0 |
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| 23:53.08 | KurousagiMK2 | kmix or Plasma 5 Volume controller? if Plasma 5 Volume controller http://imgur.com/a/OuLwp uncheck "Visual feedback for status changes" it should turn off all OSD not only "Plasma 5 Volume controller" |
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| 23:57.50 | delight | KurousagiMK2: thank you I'll try right now |
| 23:58.54 | delight | KurousagiMK2: ... works :) |
| 23:58.57 | delight | thank you |