irclog2html for ipaq on 2001.07.05

03:59:38cdm|qnxanyone in here know much about L4?
04:37:19testtest-ipaq
06:01:10jeffreyjacques,are you here?
06:02:25jeffreypisymbol ?
06:02:41jeffreycatch23?
06:04:33jeffreysNewpy?
07:24:09sosmannearly but not quite!  Familiar install on ipaq won't boot.
07:26:18kirmahave you set all those bootloader parameters?
07:27:02sosmannominally yes - still checking for typos...
07:27:37sosmanboot says "unrecognized kernel image" but md5's check out and no errors reported during flash.
07:29:00kirmaerr
07:29:12kirmahmm
07:29:13kirmaponder
07:29:22kirmado you have old bootloader or something
07:30:39sosmanI used bootldr-0000-2.14.8
07:37:17slowcoderkrima: 16 / 32 mb flash ?
07:38:17kirmadon't ask me... ;>
07:38:32slowcoderkirma: Sorry...  Mismatch.. :)
07:38:40slowcodersosman: 16 / 32 mb flash ?
07:40:10sosman16 MB - terminal session at http://metrak.com/ipaq/session-flash-0.4.txt
07:41:17sosmanThe last bit of the session got chopped off but it didn't report anything "abnormal".
07:44:30sosmanBTW since I have the bootloader flashed, I take it I can cycle the power without rendering the unit useless?
07:44:56sosmanI can still see tux and have the boot> prompt.
07:48:03kirmaei kyllä kauheesti inspirois olla duunissa tämmösellä ilmalla
07:48:09slowcoderQ: Some of the output seems garbled...
07:48:10kirmaoops, wrong window
07:48:16slowcoderkrima: No shit..
07:48:25slowcodersosman: Some of the output seems garbled...
07:48:51slowcodersosman: Have you 'partition define kernel 0x80000 0x80000 0'
07:49:21sosmanSo you saw that too.  I thought I had just drunk too much beer.
07:51:06sosman"partition define kernel 0x80000 0x80000 0" is at the end of a line with many backspaces.
07:55:18sosmanjust before "defining partition: kernel"
07:55:28slowcoderBeer + ipaq-flashing == ???
07:55:55sosmanThey are driving down a hill when the car just totally barfs.
07:56:09sosmanThe mechanical engineer is the first to get out and lift the bonnet.
07:57:05sosman... mor ber
07:57:45sosmanAnyway he can't find anything wrong with it and suggests they tow it.
07:58:06sosmanSo the scientist gets out and says crap, there must be a simple explanation.
07:58:43sosmanAfter screwing around he is stumped too and say's yep lets tow it.
07:59:48sosmanThe programmer doesn't even bother to get out and the other guys say "don't you know anything about cars?"
08:00:41sosmanDo you promise you will still help - the punchline is pretty crappy?
08:01:56sosmanslowcoder: you mean try reloading the kernel?
08:02:38slowcodersosman: Yep
08:02:59sosmanI knew it, you were the programmer in that car.
08:03:03slowcoderAlthough, I might have to leave quite soon...  Awaiting a visit from a customer
08:03:28sosmanHe said, just take it to the top of hill and try it again, its sure to work next time.
08:03:43slowcoder*lol*
08:05:58sosmanso this is the kernel I should load? "052e2790e63763770ad3d54a362332ab  zImage-2.4.3-rmk2-np1"
08:07:10sosmanwhich is just a symlink to ...fam2
08:08:58sosmanJust started back at the top of the hill, when it loads, do I just try "boot"?
08:10:07slowcoderDo you get the 'verifying ... done.'
08:10:08slowcoder?
08:10:21sosmanyep
08:10:22slowcoderGodda go...   Sorry...  
08:10:30sosmanthanks
08:10:31slowcoderLoad the root-image as well..
08:10:43sosmanok
08:11:00sosmanit worked!
08:11:20sosmanJust goes to show, that programmer was pretty smart.
08:13:02sosmanOk - so where is alt-ctrl-bs?  All I have is X with a cursor.
08:14:14SolakHello.
08:14:25sosmanhi
08:20:07sosmanits broken again.
08:20:32sosmanAfter I rebooted I got "Unrecognized kernel image"
09:03:12mandorhi
09:03:23cdm|qnxhello mandor
09:05:55mandor:)
09:06:04mandorthere4s anx on ipaq? :)
09:06:10mandorarg
09:06:15mandorthere's qnx on ipaq? :)
09:09:04mandorneeds some info about how the kernel manage cache ...
09:10:07cdm|qnx;)
09:10:10cdm|qnxyes there is.
09:10:17cdm|qnxnot public yet but it will soon be!
09:17:48mandorhmmm.. what do u mean?
09:17:57mandorin fact, I've a software wich crash
09:18:05mandorI suspect it needs more memory
09:18:14mandorwhen I run loadmeter,
09:18:27mandorthe mem. seems full
09:18:33mandorbut there's a lot of cache ..
09:18:47mandorand it seems to not been released..
09:29:26cdm|qnxmandor: I mean that QNX has not released the stuff I have been doing yet. ;)
09:29:45flushhi! anyone here using pocketlinux?
09:30:21Solaknot me (yet).
09:31:08flushok, so you use ce?
09:31:09Solakbut I plan on using it as soon as I convinced myself it's safe ;-)
09:31:33Solakflush: yep.
09:33:00flushk, the pocketlinux installation is pretty buggy i think! vi does not work at all, so i cant use ppp on it =/ just wondering if anyone here got the same prob or now a way to fix it..
09:33:04mandoruse it
09:33:14Solakflush: though 'use' is not exactly the term to use, it's more like figuring out (have an ipaq for only 1 day now ;-))
09:33:34mandorvi works on my ipaq, openssh too
09:33:52mandorflush : hmm.. I use the familiar distro however
09:34:52flush?? weird!! i get: cant find libncurses.so.5
09:37:45mandorany idea about how to flush the cache?
09:43:01cdm|qnxmandor: which cache?
09:43:40mandorcdm|qnx : the one you see in /proc/meminfo
09:43:57mandorcdm|qnx > you're currently working on qnx for ipaq?
09:44:46mandorhi murst =)
09:44:48cdm|qnxmandor: yeah I am.
09:44:53cdm|qnxbut I must run now.
09:44:57cdm|qnxI will catach you here some other time.
09:45:01cdm|qnxg;bight
09:45:07mandorbye
09:45:23mursthello
09:49:23kirma: Something failed in connecting to the NOAA web server. Try again later.
09:49:23kirmaibot: weather efhk
09:49:28kirmableh
09:56:18jacquesgod ximian is pissing me off
09:56:31jacquesWTF do they think they are? MS?
09:57:06mandor:/
10:09:36slowcoderjacques: Huh??  What about ximian ?
10:14:38jacquesslowcoder: i am trying to get galeon working
10:14:49jacquesit wants new versions of gnome packages
10:14:57jacquesrecommends getting ximian rpms
10:15:10jacquesximian site does not have any links where I can just download the rpms
10:15:22jacquesit wants me to download their "installer"
10:16:36jacquesinstaller is huge for what it does, stupidly written - does not resize, does not give shoice of dl dir, wants to dl > 90MB of rpms as the "minimal install", and DOES NOT NOTICE WHEN THE PARTITION TO WHICH IT IS DOWNLOADING RUNS OUT OF SPACE
10:17:20jacquesand their support mailing list is a classic lots of ppl with problems whose questions are never answered
10:17:41jacquesalso, they for some reason do not have eny mirrors on the US west of boston
10:17:54slowcoder:)
10:17:58slowcoderShiit happends..
10:18:00slowcoder:)
10:18:07jacquesthat's a whole lot of shit all right
10:18:45jacquesi dont need a stinking fancy installer to get rpms installed.
10:18:55jacqueshell I usually stay away from prebuilt binaries
10:19:40jacquesand I just love that the minimal install is > 90MB of rpms
10:19:43jacquesOH I FORGOT
10:20:14jacquesthe rpms that did download before it filled the /var partition - they will not pass the rpm -K md5sum check - none I tested did
10:20:27jacquesI have never seen an RPM that did not
10:20:38jacquesunless it was corrupt of course
10:22:04jacquesI am not impressed.
10:28:18slowcoderNeither am i...   Imho, RPMs suck..  All packaging systems do..
10:29:02slowcoder*gone*
11:13:35sosmanWell I drove down the hill a couple of times and now I can boot familiar.
11:22:29slowcodersosman: Congrats
12:43:08robl^good morning
12:43:49nikosHello robl^
12:44:14robl^hi nikos
12:45:44robl^I just got my iPaq.  I'm trying to understand the differences between PocketLinux, handheld, familiar, and intimate.  I'm having trouble deciding which I need/want to install.
12:46:33nikosLet's see.  Handhelds distribution was a demonstration that is now dead and replaced by Familiar.
12:46:52nikosPocketLinux is a Java system installed on top of either the handhelds or familiar distributions.
12:47:20nikosIntimate is a Debian installation that requires additional storage such as a microdrive or NFS and is installed in conjunction with Familiar.
12:48:07nikosFamiliar is a debian-like distribution designed to fit within the FlashROM and be very flexible.
12:48:25robl^hrmmm.  so..  for someone just getting their feet wet with Linux on an IPaq, I shold prolly go with the PocketLinux.  it seems very straight forward.
12:49:16nikosI work with the Familiar distribution, I don't have an unbiased opinion.
12:49:28slowcoderI do...
12:49:40slowcoderI prefer Familiar with QPE ontop.
12:50:06slowcoderBtw, when is Fam .5 out ?
12:51:40nikosslowcoder: Talk to a7r.
12:59:55robl^nikos:  is familiar difficult to install?  I'm pretty versed with Linux... just not a handheld
13:01:06nikosrobl^: No, as long as you follow the instructions it is fairly simple.  I have to ask though, what is your goal?
13:01:29nikosrobl^: Familiar as it stands is heavily under development and is not a PDA system.
13:05:24robl^nikos:  to play and to provide simple addressbook/calendar nad email.  Since I use Linux for everything else at home, I want to use Linux on a handheld.  
13:06:37nikosrobl^: Familiar will not provide those capabilities out of the box.  This is a v0.* development release.  This is only really ready for hackers/developers.
13:09:21robl^hrmm.  I think I'll give PocketLinux a bash for now.
13:18:26slowcoderrobl^: QPE gives you that functionality..
13:18:40slowcoder<- Really likes QPE
13:18:43Solaknikos: do I understand it correctly that PocketLinux can be installed on top of CE?
13:19:07nikosSolak: I know very little about PocketLinux.
13:19:10robl^QPE?  Isn't that the the embeded Qt kit?
13:19:36slowcoderSolak: I am fairly certain it requires Linux to run..
13:19:41slowcoderrobl^: Yup..
13:19:46i think qpe is at http://qpe.sourceforge.net
13:19:46slowcoderibot: qpe ?
13:21:03Solaknikos: ok, well I asked because of what you said about it (JavaSystem on top of ...)
13:21:33nikosSolak: :)  That's about the whole of my knowledge.
13:22:00Solaknikos: :)
13:22:35Solakthinks there are not enough open (cross)development tools for CE...
13:22:57slowcodernikos: About Zope....  
13:23:19slowcoderSolak: M$ is offering embedded VC++ and VB for free....
13:23:30slowcoderSolak: Not open, but free..
13:23:31nikosslowcoder: free != open
13:23:36nikos:)
13:23:57slowcoderI wouldn't wanna touch M$s code with a stick even...
13:24:29slowcodernikos: Work is piling up here..  I won't have time to dig into Zope for at least a week or so..
13:25:15nikosslowcoder: I understand.  Anything you can do is great.
13:26:36robl^hrmm.  so I could run QPE on top of familiar?
13:26:45slowcoderrobl^: Yep
13:26:54slowcoderrobl^: That's what I do.
13:27:13nikosThat's the only way it does run.
13:27:49robl^slowcoder:  hrmmmm.    
13:28:54nikosAll of these other projects are packages installed ontop of Familiar.  They are software packages, not distributions.
13:33:06robl^nikos: kewl!  All I need is my serial cable.  my ipaq was bundled with the USB cradle
13:33:21nikosrobl^: Or you can modify your cradle if you want.
13:33:24ipaq serial is at http://handhelds.org/minihowto/h3600-serial-cable.html
13:33:24nikosibot: ipaq serial
13:36:39robl^nikos:  I already ordered the cable and it will be here tomorrow morning
13:38:00nikosrobl^: Cool.  The cable is easier to deal with that a cradle anyway.
13:38:05nikoss/that/than/
13:38:43nikosrobl^: The only point where a custom cradle comes in extremely handy is with usbnet.  The modified cradle can be used for USB and serial simultaneously.
13:39:21robl^hrmm.  I'm not skilled with a soldering iron though.  I'll make it a future project
13:39:57nikosrobl^: Cool.  Depending on your cradle, you may not need to use a soldering iron.  But it is somewhat tedious either way.
13:43:45robl^nikos:  all I know is that I'll need a drill to open up my cradle
13:44:25nikosrobl^: ? You just need a Torx 6 driver.
13:44:40nikosrobl^: Or do you mean open a place for the new cable?
14:37:27robl^I'm back!  how dare my employer pull me away from my IRC. :)
14:39:29nikos:)
14:47:01nikosis away: Errand
15:04:29nikosis back
15:13:20robl^welcome back nikos
15:48:49robl^slowcoder:  are ya around?
15:50:36slowcoderrobl^: Yea
15:52:49robl^slowcoder: how do I transfer files with a base install.  if the serial port is used for a console, how do I make a PPP connection?
15:53:46slowcoderrobl^: The first thing that I do is setting up a PPP connection between the ipaq and my workstation...  After that, I use ssh to get a terminal and ftp from the ipaq
15:54:09slowcoderDid that make sense ?
15:59:15robl^yeah.  sorta.  so ssh is included in the base filesystem?
15:59:51nikosrobl^: Yes, but make sure you did the ipkg install_pending steps from the directions.
16:00:07nikosrobl^: and /etc/init.d/ssh start if you don't reboot.
16:02:46robl^I kinda understand the idea.  I'll prolly have some questions after I get it partialy setup tomorrow.
16:03:57robl^nikos & slowcoder:  thanks for the info.  I think once I do this once, I'll be fine.
16:45:21robl^off to lunch
17:22:31SolakHello.
17:30:02nikosHello Solak
17:44:51Solakhmm, it seems that installing a Linux distribution on my ipaq is the only alternative...
17:45:22Solaksince I want to do some development for it.
18:11:16jamiesonhello - anyone here using the dual-slot PCMCIA sleeve successfully?
18:16:10jamiesonhi- is anyone succcessfull using the dual-slot PCMCIA sleeve with the handhelds.org linux kernel?
18:19:10nikosjamieson: You have to have a later kernel compile
18:19:45jamiesonwhich version?
18:20:05nikosjamieson: K2_4_4-rmk3-np1-demo1 works.  I think its possible to get some modules to load with 2.4.3 as well
18:20:07244 is ftp://lothlorien.handhelds.org/pub/linux/feeds/
18:20:07nikosibot: 244
18:20:25nikosjamieson: I think there's some stuff at that URL.
18:20:37jamieson2.4.5-rmk4-np1 is what i'm using :(
18:21:09nikosjamieson: Do you have the appropriate modules loaded?
18:21:30jamiesoni have h3600-sleeve and h3600_backpaq loaded, among others.
18:21:47nikosjamieson: That's about all I can help.  I don't have a dual sleeve, maybe someone else will be able to help.
18:21:58jamiesonmy problem is that cardmgr is saying unsupported card in socket 1
18:21:58jamieson and no product info available
18:22:15nikosjamieson: Are you sure that's not simply true?
18:22:36jamiesonyou mean which modules are loaded?
18:23:05jamiesonlsmod shows that h3600-sleeve and h3600_backpaq are loaded, for sure.
18:25:18nikosAs I said, I've given you all the information I know I'm afraid. :(
18:25:25nikosTangent: Are you around?
18:25:51jamiesonok- thx for trying
18:29:10ToyKeeperDo you know if newer kernels fix the battery-usage-while-suspended problem?
18:29:16ToyKeeperOr is that the bootloader's problem?
18:29:42robl^wonder if I can get postgresql working on the ipaq.  :-)  (j/k)
18:37:51nikosrobl^: It's been done.  And Ross Reedstrom is working on a project to build a version that works better with a low storage system.
18:38:32robl^nikos: really?  I'm a huge fan of sql servers storing data.
18:38:53nikosrobl^: Same here.
18:39:43nikoshttp://greatbridge.org/project/pocketpgsql/projdisplay.php
18:41:17robl^wow. a good sql engine will really make PIM apps more useable
18:43:52robl^I'll keep my eye on that prject.  I deal with postgresql and mysql daily, at the office.  its good to know I'll soon have a familiar friend on my iPaq
19:53:16nfidoes anyone know of where some instructions are for repairing a palm Vx screen?
19:53:36nfii bought the screen but the link for repairing doesnt work anymore
20:13:28nikosnfi: This is a Compaq iPAQ/Open Source channel.
20:40:11d00dhello
20:40:38d00dhow can i tweak my USB adaptor to plug slaves in?
20:41:47d00dany idea? it's to plug an USB modem into the link
20:42:00BBroxd00d: you cannot.
20:42:18d00dBBrox: are you sure?
20:43:17d00dBBrox: what if i somehow create an adaptor that fits into the modem? will that work?
20:43:42d00dBBrox: or, attaching the cable to an USB hub and plugging other devices there?
20:44:37d00dBBrox: i just want to make sure it won't work (as the FAQ says)
20:45:07BBroxd00d: well, you need at least on USB master somewhere
20:45:14BBroxAnd the iPAQ is not a master....
20:45:19nikosThe ipaq is not a USB Master, it's unlikely any handhelds could provide that since a USB master has to supply power.
20:45:41d00dnikos: is the power supply the onlt problem?
20:46:08d00dnikos: i have a hub with a power adaptor in it
20:46:22nikosd00d: No its not the only problem.  Its simply a major reason why a handheld would not incorporate USB master capabilities.
20:46:43nikosd00d: The hardware that does USB master and USB slave is very different.
20:47:21d00dnikos: but the kernel does let me to send data from userspcae?
20:49:15d00dnikos: let's suppose i'm able to phisically connect a slave cable with a master device
20:49:52nikosd00d: Step back.  What is the result you are trying to achieve?
20:50:06d00dnikos: use an USB modem
20:50:23nikosd00d: I can't see anyway that's going to happen with an ipaq.
20:50:41d00diPAQ --> USB hub --> modem
20:51:15nikosUSB hub is a stupid device, it is not a master.
20:51:26d00di fix the cable so it's able to fit into the hub, and the hub has its own power supply
20:51:46d00dyeah, it's very dumb
20:52:27d00di mean, will i be able to send data to the modem by writing into /dev/something
20:52:35nikosd00d: I'm no USB expert.  But there's a lot more functionality from a USB master.
20:52:58nikosd00d: USB slaves NEVER send data.  They only respond to requests from the master.
20:53:06d00dnikos: i've never used USB ;).
20:53:42d00dnikos: you mean they never send data because the OS doesn't have any reason to send data?
20:54:13d00dnikos: or is it a hardware limitation?
20:54:17nikosd00d: That's just the way USB is designed to work.  It's a master/slave relationship, driven by the master.
20:54:33d00dmmh i believe there's a possibility to tweak it
20:54:57nikosd00d: Then you  must know a lot more than I do.
20:55:25d00dif that problem is designated by the operating system and not by hardware, some tweaking could solve...
20:56:00d00dnikos: na, i only know about periferials and so. i've never used an USB so i had no idea of it before coming here :)
20:56:24nikosd00d: I can very easily tell you NO change to an OS is going to make USB slave into USB master.
20:57:26d00dnikos: but you don't know if that master/slave designation is hardware-based or software-based
20:57:41nikosd00d: How many different ways can I say it?
20:58:00d00dnikos: ok i understood you :)
20:58:02nikosd00d: It is hardware.
20:58:53d00dsigh, i'll have to plug a serial modem
20:58:58d00di'm going
20:59:33d00dbye
21:09:19jamiesonanyone around here had success with the new dual-slot PCMCIA sleeve?
21:14:56jacques_workyes, some have
21:15:03jacques_workbut it's not 100% yet
21:15:28ToyKeeperI still have yet to get usbnet to work.  Anyone here had success with it?
21:16:17ToyKeeperI tried the usbnet.c linked from the howto page, and then the 2.4.5-ac24 kernel.  Both let me "insmod usbnet", but "ifconfig usb0" gave me errors about a nonexistent device.
21:18:54jacques_workToyKeeper: ok, let's go through it
21:19:23jacques_workToyKeeper: the usb0 device is for the PC side, right?
21:19:36ToyKeeperYup.
21:19:47jacques_workToyKeeper: it will not appear until you plug the ipaq into the USB cradle
21:20:08ToyKeeperThe only thing I noticed which was wrong was that I got a usb error message when I put the ipaq in the cradle.
21:20:08jacques_workbut, before you do that, make sure you have modprobed (and configed) usb-eth on the ipaq
21:20:24jacques_workToyKeeper: ah, you should ave gottten an attach message
21:20:26ToyKeeperusb.c: USB device not accepting new address (error=-110)
21:20:43jacques_workToyKeeper: ok, that's usually an indication that the ipaq side is not configed properly
21:20:57ToyKeeperOkay.  I think just what you've told me should help.
21:21:05jacques_workdo you have usbf (or whatever it is) configed on the ipaq?
21:21:08jacques_workis it up?
21:21:17ToyKeeperI'll have to reboot to mess with it again, because I normally run 2.2.18.
21:21:46jacques_workah, also I don;t know if anyone has tried a kernel as "new" as ac24, but I don;t have any reason to think it should not work
21:23:11ToyKeeperAnyway, next time I'm working on it, I'll be sure to set up everything on the ipaq first, then plug it in.  :)
21:24:44jacques_workToyKeeper: right, that should make it work
21:28:55jamiesonjacquesZzZz: do you know who's gotten the dual-slot pcmcia working?
21:29:22jamiesonwhoops, i mean jacques_work
21:29:46jacques_workjamieson: Tangent has
21:30:18Tangent was last seen on #handhelds.org 13 minutes and 4 seconds ago, saying: Heh.. now I could flash linux from here :) [Thu Jul  5 22:17:14 2001]
21:30:18jacques_workibot: seen Tangent
21:31:21jamiesonthx
21:31:26jacques_worknp

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