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| 15:52.56 | newb | hi all, i was wondering if i could install android on the htc arrive |
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| 18:00.06 | o3 | just a quick 'misc' question: what makes a spl (appsbl/hboot) compatible/not compatible with some kernels? except for setting up basic hw stuff and jumping to kernel code (which should work with every kernel), what more? |
| 18:01.11 | phh | only thing i can think of is mtype |
| 18:02.17 | o3 | machine type? |
| 18:02.58 | phh | yeah |
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| 18:05.44 | o3 | hmmm nice, i thought there were some extra "magic bits" on it |
| 18:06.35 | phh | i doubt that's the only thing though |
| 18:06.37 | phh | it would sound really weird |
| 18:06.42 | phh | oh wait. |
| 18:06.47 | phh | there could be signature stuff too |
| 18:10.35 | o3 | ah I see. I saw some customs kernels for sapphire where the author said "compatible with SPLs x,y,z. will be adding support for others versions" |
| 18:10.59 | o3 | that left me wondering what else would be involved |
| 18:11.41 | o3 | in case the spl won't check for any signature stuff at all, they are pretty much the same then? |
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| 18:16.23 | phh | spl doesn't include amss right ? |
| 18:17.16 | o3 | no |
| 18:17.50 | phh | i seriously can't see what could change |
| 18:17.50 | o3 | it does not |
| 18:19.04 | o3 | ah ok, its probably mtype & signing then |
| 18:19.09 | o3 | about amss stuf.. |
| 18:19.37 | phh | amss is a lot more complicated. |
| 18:19.41 | phh | it can break mostly everywhere :p |
| 18:20.07 | phh | like if amss' behaviour change on something, since the linux kernel is working closely with it |
| 18:20.17 | phh | or just RPC versions |
| 18:20.29 | o3 | ah |
| 18:20.39 | o3 | yep, got a question on that :) |
| 18:22.44 | o3 | is there differences between rpc (implemented with proc_comm, right?) versions for a device with WinCE or a Android one? |
| 18:23.33 | o3 | I mean, a device with WinCE, the RPC exposed by the AMSS is totally different from an AMSS running on a android device? |
| 18:24.05 | o3 | since the AMSS is mostly coded by Qcom |
| 18:34.18 | tmzt | rpc is similar but the pre-rpc stuff is totally different |
| 18:34.33 | tmzt | amss may be written by qualcomm but they design the interface to what the oem wants |
| 18:35.10 | tmzt | and I think the oem (google for the g1 with htc's help) has the ability to add interfaces to it as well |
| 18:35.23 | tmzt | might even be able to build dev versions (like on halibut) |
| 18:35.54 | o3 | i see |
| 18:36.01 | tmzt | mtype has ntohing to do with signing |
| 18:36.09 | tmzt | mtype is an arm linux thing |
| 18:36.45 | tmzt | unless by spl you are referring to tinboot or some of the other firmware for booting android on ce devices |
| 18:36.49 | tmzt | which hardcode mtype |
| 18:36.57 | tmzt | but that has nothing to do with HTC SPL |
| 18:37.27 | o3 | what i meant was htc spls |
| 18:37.51 | o3 | besides the mtype and signing stuff, what else would be involved |
| 18:38.01 | o3 | it seems nothing else :) |
| 18:38.11 | o3 | and regarding the amss |
| 18:38.23 | tmzt | who said they had to be compatible, where did you see that? |
| 18:39.15 | tmzt | 14:00 < o3> just a quick 'misc' question: what makes a spl (appsbl/hboot) compatible/not compatible with some kernels? except for setting up basic hw stuff and jumping to kernel code (which should work with every kernel), what more? |
| 18:39.25 | tmzt | hmm, what do you mean by hboot? |
| 18:39.34 | tmzt | we mostly use that term relating to android |
| 18:39.39 | o3 | yep |
| 18:39.56 | tmzt | what device? |
| 18:39.56 | o3 | hboot is the qcom's appsbl, right? |
| 18:40.11 | tmzt | pretty much, but it's modified for android |
| 18:40.21 | tmzt | and I think some android devices use a different bootloader |
| 18:40.23 | tmzt | but it's not clear |
| 18:40.30 | tmzt | (engboot) |
| 18:41.21 | o3 | then, they are both "the bootloader which runs on ARM11 to bootstrap the main OS, which is loaded by OEMSBL", right? |
| 18:41.58 | o3 | actually, the device i'm talking about is not a phone |
| 18:42.03 | o3 | but is based on msm7201a |
| 18:42.07 | o3 | and runs BREW |
| 18:42.11 | tmzt | dev board? |
| 18:42.16 | o3 | a game console |
| 18:42.19 | tmzt | you are trying to port android to it? |
| 18:42.23 | o3 | yep |
| 18:42.27 | tmzt | nice! |
| 18:42.33 | o3 | :) |
| 18:42.44 | o3 | you see, i pretty much booted an linux kernel on it |
| 18:43.02 | tmzt | android's kernel has it's own format, boot.img |
| 18:43.11 | tmzt | it has a header that is read by the spl/hboot |
| 18:43.24 | o3 | ah |
| 18:43.39 | tmzt | that's probably what they mean |
| 18:44.10 | tmzt | if you look in android.git.kernel.org you'll find tools for working with that format |
| 18:44.30 | o3 | ok |
| 18:44.45 | tmzt | we have another approach, tinboot, that creates somethign that can be chainloaded from the spl |
| 18:44.56 | tmzt | but it's designed to be compatible with ce's xip format |
| 18:45.05 | tmzt | I assume brew uses elf boot images? |
| 18:45.55 | o3 | pretty much, the main executable on APPS partition, which should be the BREW itself, is actually an ELF |
| 18:46.10 | o3 | but that really doesn't mind |
| 18:46.17 | o3 | I can replace the APPSBL with anything |
| 18:46.31 | tmzt | right |
| 18:46.44 | tmzt | what kind of display does this device have? |
| 18:46.46 | o3 | i've created a little bootloader to setup basic stuff and jump to kernel |
| 18:46.54 | o3 | yep, that's a problem: none |
| 18:46.59 | o3 | it features just a TV out |
| 18:47.01 | o3 | :/ |
| 18:47.06 | tmzt | we would love to replace the spl on ce devices someday |
| 18:47.13 | tmzt | right, mddi based? |
| 18:47.31 | tmzt | (actually replacing hboot on android devices would be cool too) |
| 18:47.56 | tmzt | there's a lot of stupid reinitialization we have had to do because of spl's |
| 18:48.04 | tmzt | rather than letting linux do it right |
| 18:48.22 | o3 | hmm, i don't think so. wouldn't mddi be used just as a high-speed interface? as long as I know, it's all done using internal MSM's TV ENC, which is output to PMIC's TV DAC. |
| 18:48.29 | tmzt | there's a project doing that on HD2(leo) but it's not open so I've never seend the code |
| 18:48.37 | tmzt | oh, ok |
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| 18:48.47 | tmzt | so it's a yuv encoder? |
| 18:48.50 | o3 | ah, on my device, none bootloader is signed, i can change anything :D |
| 18:48.56 | o3 | yep |
| 18:49.03 | tmzt | is this device only in br? haven't heard of it |
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| 18:49.13 | o3 | hehe |
| 18:49.20 | o3 | its pretty much a "dark" console |
| 18:49.31 | tmzt | like for hotels? |
| 18:49.33 | o3 | it has been released on Brazil and Mexico |
| 18:50.02 | tmzt | http://www.manufacturing.net/News-New-Game-Console-Uses-Qualcomm-Technology-032409.aspx |
| 18:50.03 | o3 | no, its a game console which connects to a 3G network to download its games |
| 18:50.25 | o3 | that one :) |
| 18:50.50 | o3 | well, it actually dead, the main company discontinued the product here |
| 18:51.42 | tmzt | a snapdragon version would be nice |
| 18:51.50 | o3 | yeah! |
| 18:52.28 | o3 | so, basically, i've been working on it for a while, and want to port android to it |
| 18:53.05 | o3 | i need a new appsbl to replace BREWs one, which i can write a new or use one from android project |
| 18:53.20 | o3 | and try to talk to its AMSS via RPC |
| 18:53.41 | tmzt | what's happening when you boot? |
| 18:53.48 | tmzt | do you have serial console or any other output? |
| 18:54.01 | o3 | yeah, serial and JTAG |
| 18:54.09 | o3 | but there is nothing on serial port |
| 18:54.22 | tmzt | well you need to make you're bootloader do that first |
| 18:54.24 | o3 | i'm using it for linux porting, but nothing from the original system itself |
| 18:54.29 | tmzt | I don't think you need rpc calls |
| 18:55.02 | tmzt | http://androidhtc.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=androidhtc/tinboot.git;a=summary |
| 18:55.18 | o3 | really? i mean, for now, i've been setting up some clocks inside my own bootloader, since I can't ask amss to do that (no rpc) |
| 18:55.58 | tmzt | well the clocks might not be rpc, they might be proc_comm |
| 18:56.10 | o3 | yep, proc_comm,sry |
| 18:56.12 | o3 | :) |
| 18:56.34 | tmzt | well we have proc_comm for ce devices which are probably more similar to brew than android is |
| 18:57.11 | tmzt | look for linux on qualcomm msm on gitorious, but i can't say if that's the latest |
| 18:57.34 | o3 | really? that's what I'm looking for. i'm bored to reverse its amss to document the proc_comm variant :( |
| 18:57.57 | o3 | i've tried every supported amss version from that kernel, none works :/ |
| 18:57.59 | tmzt | ours is really simple |
| 18:58.06 | tmzt | from what kernel? |
| 18:58.35 | o3 | oh no, wait. i've been using the one from codeaurora |
| 18:58.51 | tmzt | oh, yeah |
| 18:58.54 | tmzt | that won't work :) |
| 18:59.00 | o3 | lol |
| 18:59.05 | tmzt | use htc-linux kernel |
| 18:59.19 | tmzt | at least figure out if the proc_comm works and get serial |
| 18:59.36 | tmzt | but you can do proc_comm yourself in the bootloader and setup serial output |
| 19:00.00 | tmzt | you see openzeebo.org ? |
| 19:00.05 | o3 | yeah |
| 19:00.17 | o3 | i'm the founder ;) |
| 19:00.24 | tmzt | so it's has jtag? |
| 19:00.28 | o3 | yep |
| 19:00.37 | tmzt | amazing, we could have used this years ago |
| 19:00.53 | tmzt | maybe have booted ce amss on it |
| 19:00.57 | o3 | amazing indeed, i can step code nicely :) |
| 19:01.50 | o3 | as a first shot, i tried running homebrew stuff on it |
| 19:01.56 | o3 | inside brew |
| 19:02.12 | tmzt | what debugger are you using? |
| 19:02.26 | tmzt | well, step brew enough to get the proc_comm figured out |
| 19:02.28 | o3 | eclipse connected to openocd gdb server |
| 19:02.32 | tmzt | and add it to our 2.6.29 kernel :) |
| 19:02.57 | o3 | yep, i'm bored to do that, that's why I've searching for something compatible hahaha |
| 19:03.11 | o3 | but yeah, will do that |
| 19:03.58 | o3 | first, I need to get rid of my hacky bl, i'll fork tinboot and have a look at it |
| 19:04.34 | tmzt | we'd really like to get uboot or something like that working on htc devices |
| 19:04.42 | tmzt | I guess android devices now |
| 19:05.00 | o3 | but every bootloader is signed, right? |
| 19:05.17 | tmzt | not with hardspl |
| 19:05.42 | o3 | ah ok, but what about oemsbl/qcsbl? |
| 19:07.03 | tmzt | hey, it's cdma based right? |
| 19:07.17 | tmzt | is there anyway to disable the radio completely? |
| 19:07.33 | o3 | 2g/3g |
| 19:07.53 | tmzt | o3: the hardspl method means we can modify those on most devices |
| 19:08.02 | tmzt | cdma not gsm |
| 19:08.23 | tmzt | I found one for 50, I might get it but I don't want it trying to connect to verizon or anything |
| 19:08.58 | o3 | well, pretty much, when I'm researching, I always put the AMSS in a endless loop lol. no need for the radio for the game functions |
| 19:09.07 | o3 | ah, you mean the console? |
| 19:09.33 | tmzt | yeeah |
| 19:10.01 | o3 | a friend of mine on the US brought one. i told him to swap it's internal SIM card and change the APN config |
| 19:10.06 | o3 | it worked ! |
| 19:10.12 | tmzt | oh so it's gsm |
| 19:10.15 | tmzt | okay |
| 19:10.18 | o3 | yeah, GSM |
| 19:10.29 | tmzt | what carrier is it in br? |
| 19:10.35 | o3 | Claro |
| 19:10.49 | o3 | i'm using mine with TIM, since Claro sucks :P |
| 19:11.49 | tmzt | okay |
| 19:11.51 | tmzt | cool |
| 19:12.18 | o3 | if you ever buy one |
| 19:12.25 | o3 | it would be nice, join our team ;D |
| 19:13.00 | o3 | hehe |
| 19:13.04 | tmzt | I'm just playing with this stuff now |
| 19:13.10 | tmzt | I've got an android phone that I can live with :) |
| 19:13.17 | tmzt | (g2 desire z) |
| 19:13.31 | o3 | yep, i got one myself too on may, loving it! |
| 19:14.01 | tmzt | probably the best handset HTC has made |
| 19:14.06 | tmzt | at least qwerty |
| 19:14.15 | tmzt | have to replace the screen though |
| 19:14.30 | tmzt | hope you get zeebo working with linux |
| 19:14.32 | o3 | oww :/ |
| 19:14.48 | o3 | ah yep, thanks |
| 19:14.51 | o3 | long road ahead |
| 19:15.16 | o3 | but since i'm able to boot a vanilla kernel already, that's a nice progress i guess |
| 19:15.46 | tmzt | how do you know it's booting? |
| 19:15.49 | tmzt | jtag? |
| 19:15.54 | o3 | serial |
| 19:16.01 | tmzt | you have serial output? |
| 19:16.05 | o3 | yeah |
| 19:16.14 | tmzt | oh okay, I thought you were still working on that |
| 19:16.29 | tmzt | os what you really need is a framebuffer driver that supports tv out |
| 19:16.42 | o3 | yeah, i've been worried about that :/ |
| 19:16.47 | tmzt | we have the start of one of those, and a samsung 7201 kernel we found has one |
| 19:16.54 | o3 | the tv drivers are on staging for now |
| 19:16.57 | o3 | really? |
| 19:17.04 | tmzt | yeah |
| 19:17.11 | tmzt | you'll have to search the logs |
| 19:17.21 | tmzt | it has a very different msm_fb (there's a bunch of them floating around) |
| 19:17.34 | tmzt | also, we have something called htc_fb_console which is an earlyfb that blits the mddi |
| 19:17.43 | tmzt | it could probably be modified to active the tv output instead |
| 19:17.47 | tmzt | to give you a place to start |
| 19:17.56 | o3 | hmmm nice |
| 19:18.01 | tmzt | and cr2 was kind of our expert on tvout |
| 19:18.07 | tmzt | but he hasn't been around lately |
| 19:18.09 | tmzt | ~seen cr2 |
| 19:18.14 | apt | cr2 <n=cr2@ip-109-84-74-80.web.vodafone.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #htc-linux, 553d 22h 57m 21s ago, saying: 'MrPippy: where is this source ?'. |
| 19:18.21 | tmzt | ouch |
| 19:18.23 | o3 | wow |
| 19:18.31 | o3 | hah |
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| 19:18.38 | tmzt | GlemSom: hey |
| 19:19.08 | tmzt | you worked on bootloaders didn't you? |
| 19:19.37 | GlemSom | tmzt, If something is broken.. Then, NO I DID NOT DO IT!! |
| 19:19.38 | GlemSom | ;) |
| 19:19.42 | GlemSom | heh |
| 19:19.54 | GlemSom | Honestly, No - I did not work with bootloaders.. |
| 19:20.00 | tmzt | what was it? |
| 19:20.05 | tmzt | I forget |
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| 19:37.07 | o3 | proc_comm_wince.c :) |
| 19:38.33 | tmzt | yep |
| 19:40.11 | o3 | i guess it won't be very different |
| 19:40.46 | o3 | i did some quick comparison between my amss and one from sapphire |
| 19:40.59 | o3 | they seem to be compatible to some extent |
| 19:41.40 | o3 | i mean, if i remember well, they both stores the proc_comm version (i think it is) in the same offset inside smem |
| 19:42.06 | o3 | so, yeah, hope it's not too much work lol |
| 19:42.45 | o3 | too much arm asm these last months, i want some rest hehe |
| 19:43.23 | o3 | is the bootloaders, amss from this device of any use to you guys? i mean, for research purposes? |
| 19:43.34 | o3 | i guess no, but.. :) |
| 19:47.35 | WyrM | o3: bootloader for which device? |
| 19:48.21 | o3 | zeebo game console |
| 19:49.04 | tmzt | WyrM: hey, somebody was asking about adding sdhc/sd2.0 support to genblob |
| 19:49.23 | tmzt | can't remember who but it would have been in #openezx |
| 19:49.24 | WyrM | tmzt: Hi. |
| 19:50.03 | WyrM | shouldn't be hard to do. |
| 19:57.49 | WyrM | o3: looks like a fun device to hack. :) |
| 19:58.19 | WyrM | i also live in Brasil, but have never seen one. |
| 19:58.46 | o3 | wow |
| 19:58.48 | tmzt | are you ntsc? |
| 19:58.55 | tmzt | 50/60 ? |
| 19:58.57 | o3 | really? :) |
| 19:59.02 | o3 | pal-m |
| 19:59.04 | tmzt | oh |
| 19:59.12 | tmzt | that might be an issue for me |
| 19:59.24 | o3 | but you can change tv out control register and switch to ntsc ;D |
| 20:00.47 | tmzt | right |
| 20:00.59 | o3 | well, with jtag, that is |
| 20:01.04 | tmzt | does it have svideo or just composite? |
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| 20:01.13 | o3 | composite only |
| 20:01.24 | tmzt | that should be easy enough to fix |
| 20:01.29 | tmzt | I'm sure y/c is in there somewhere |
| 20:02.04 | o3 | you mean extract the signal directly from board? |
| 20:02.53 | o3 | WyrM: interested in giving it a go? :) |
| 20:04.13 | WyrM | I don't have the hardware, so i don't know if i can help much. |
| 20:05.04 | WyrM | o3: are you trying to port android to it? |
| 20:05.10 | WyrM | or mainline linux? |
| 20:06.01 | o3 | well, i really was thinking about that, but by porting android, i think it would be more user friendly |
| 20:06.30 | o3 | and, i guess there is no full 3d acceleration + gl libs when dealing with mainline linux |
| 20:07.03 | o3 | (i may be wrong) |
| 20:07.28 | tmzt | you mgiht be able to get an android 3d driver working |
| 20:07.32 | o3 | at least with android we got those, from actual phones |
| 20:07.44 | tmzt | unfortunately they aren't compatible with normal linux linkers |
| 20:07.58 | o3 | yeah, that's one of the reasons to pick android instead of vanilla linux |
| 20:08.47 | o3 | since it's a game console, no 3d is quite a no-no |
| 20:09.07 | tmzt | if you are using it as a game console |
| 20:09.10 | tmzt | what is the controller like |
| 20:09.29 | o3 | its a simple usb one |
| 20:09.41 | o3 | hid, standard stuff |
| 20:10.03 | o3 | it also comes with a keyboard, for browsing |
| 20:10.11 | o3 | to help on* |
| 20:10.16 | tmzt | so plugging in bluetooth would be easy |
| 20:10.31 | o3 | yes |
| 20:10.41 | o3 | it has 3 usb host ports |
| 20:10.56 | tmzt | I might just save up and get a samsung tv though |
| 20:10.59 | o3 | and 1 slave, that is mapped to qcom diag, nmea, modem |
| 20:11.03 | tmzt | I can do the same stuff |
| 20:11.06 | o3 | hehe |
| 20:11.09 | o3 | yep |
| 20:11.15 | tmzt | port X even :) |
| 20:11.19 | tmzt | just because I want to |
| 20:11.26 | o3 | that would be cool |
| 20:12.05 | o3 | the console itself is not that great. i played on it like, 2 times? lol |
| 20:12.30 | tmzt | get fb working :) |
| 20:12.32 | o3 | i got it just for tinkering |
| 20:12.51 | o3 | i will lol |
| 20:13.05 | o3 | hopefully |
| 20:13.15 | tmzt | start with htc_fb_console |
| 20:13.24 | tmzt | it's a bit simpler than msmfb |
| 20:13.42 | o3 | ok |
| 20:13.43 | tmzt | search the logs for the samsung kernel, probably for the original galaxy |
| 20:13.49 | o3 | i7500? |
| 20:13.52 | tmzt | yeah |
| 20:14.10 | o3 | yep, googling for it! |
| 20:14.24 | o3 | then, i need to "glue" it with tv_enc |
| 20:15.57 | tmzt | yeah |
| 20:23.40 | WyrM | tmzt: about the samsung tv, buy a sony bravia and help us instead. ;) http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/openbravia/index.php?title=Main_Page |
| 20:24.16 | tmzt | hmm |
| 20:24.29 | tmzt | I'm just glad there's more than one project |
| 20:24.37 | tmzt | but I'm looking for one with an open (or reversable) dsp |
| 20:25.34 | tmzt | irc? |
| 20:27.02 | WyrM | no irc channel yet. just starting the project. |
| 20:27.11 | tmzt | I like sony's panels |
| 20:27.19 | tmzt | I just wonder if they'll get drm for scea |
| 20:27.28 | WyrM | we have console access, but there is no shell running in it. |
| 20:27.30 | tmzt | from |
| 20:28.12 | tmzt | serial is on the remote port? |
| 20:28.38 | WyrM | Debug connector with 3 serial ports. |
| 20:30.21 | WyrM | emma3tl2 seems quite impressive: http://www2.renesas.com/digital_av/en/mpegdec_tv/emma3tl2.html |
| 20:32.48 | tmzt | hmm, I thought samsung switched to arm on the newer models, I guess sony is still mips? |
| 20:34.19 | WyrM | some newer sonys use arm processors. |
| 20:34.25 | WyrM | so i guess they switched too. |
| 20:34.42 | WyrM | the google tv also has a emma3. |
| 20:36.58 | tmzt | but that might be beside atom |
| 20:37.02 | tmzt | on google tv |
| 20:37.03 | tmzt | or not |
| 20:38.17 | WyrM | yes, the google/android part is an atom. The tv part is an emma3. :) |
| 20:39.57 | tmzt | right |
| 20:40.07 | tmzt | I wonder how they interface those, maybe hdmi internally |
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