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| 00:03.35 | Rajdeep | hi |
| 00:03.40 | ExoticCarMan | hi |
| 00:04.15 | Rajdeep | how many of you have decided to work on geogebra |
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| 00:30.04 | olly | jkridner: ok, though if they can't find that on their own, I suspect they lack the initiative to make a good student |
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| 00:41.21 | n1cky | is there really not a way to just upload a plaintext file for the proposal? |
| 00:41.35 | n1cky | i've been fighting this wysiwyg editor for the past half hour |
| 00:41.51 | olly | go to source mode and stick <pre> </pre> around it? |
| 00:42.25 | n1cky | i'm gonna have to install chrome for that. blegh. |
| 00:42.44 | n1cky | that'll probably work though, good idea. |
| 00:42.59 | olly | why chrome? |
| 00:43.10 | olly | i can see it needs javascript, but melange really doesn't work well without that |
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| 01:02.36 | n1cky | it doesn't need javascript, i went with w3m and it solved everything |
| 01:03.04 | n1cky | but it was a jumbled mess before I added <pre> tags, so thanks! |
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| 01:17.20 | royal121 | If a student proposal is accepted by more than one organization, how will it be resolved? |
| 01:17.51 | olly | you get to do one |
| 01:18.30 | olly | you may not get to choose, but let at least one org know if you have a particular preference |
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| 01:18.46 | royal121 | Okay thanks! :) |
| 01:18.56 | olly | but ultimately it's assumed students only apply for projects they'd be happy to do |
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| 02:55.07 | klaxa | hi, i'm just asking for confirmation, but just registering on https://www.google-melange.com without uploading a proof of enrollment does not "count", does it? |
| 02:55.57 | olly | you need to upload the enrollment proof to submit a propoasl |
| 02:56.03 | olly | *proposal |
| 02:57.43 | klaxa | is the proposal also mandatory by the day after tomorrow? |
| 02:58.09 | olly | well, it's not mandatory |
| 02:58.15 | olly | nobody has to submit a proposal |
| 02:58.29 | olly | that's the deadline if you want to |
| 02:58.44 | klaxa | ah, i see |
| 02:58.57 | klaxa | well i'm already in contact with my mentor |
| 02:59.20 | klaxa | so i guess it won't really be necessary? |
| 02:59.35 | olly | what won't? |
| 02:59.41 | klaxa | the proposal |
| 02:59.57 | olly | you can't take part in gsoc as a student if you don't submit one |
| 03:00.10 | olly | you can still contribute to an open source project |
| 03:00.12 | klaxa | ah, that's what i wanted to know |
| 03:00.17 | olly | so it depends what you want to do |
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| 03:04.50 | mrsud | h |
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| 03:10.24 | Anwaario | I have a question - are there no oppurtunities for someone who is a complete n00b? |
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| 03:13.12 | thiagovsk | Anwaario: =/ |
| 03:13.31 | thiagovsk | i think.... its possible =) |
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| 03:16.03 | Anwaario | All the profiles and ideas have programs skills requested |
| 03:16.34 | dfighter | Anwaario, it's called "summer of code" so ofc you will have to code |
| 03:16.40 | Anwaario | I don't care if I copy code all day I just want to get used to the syntax |
| 03:16.59 | Anwaario | absolutely but no one runs first... |
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| 03:17.21 | klaxa | are there any guidelines for proposals? |
| 03:17.30 | klaxa | like is there a document that states what content is expected? |
| 03:17.44 | thiago | yes |
| 03:17.47 | thiago | each org usually has one |
| 03:17.54 | klaxa | ah i just found some stuff in the faq |
| 03:18.10 | Anwaario | thiago what do you reccommend? |
| 03:18.26 | dfighter | Anwaario, have you had no programming whatsoever in college? |
| 03:18.28 | thiago | Anwaario: I recommend you read what the org requires and do like they said so |
| 03:18.51 | Anwaario | For logistics programs. I'm in a Maritime Academy |
| 03:20.59 | dfighter | Anwaario, I don't know what kind of programming that is, however you definitely need some experience with one of the programming languages used by the organizations |
| 03:21.13 | thiagovsk | Anwaario: what language you like? |
| 03:22.12 | Anwaario | Javascript |
| 03:22.14 | Anwaario | SQL |
| 03:22.27 | olly | !amigoodenough | Anwaario |
| 03:22.27 | gsocbot | Anwaario: "amigoodenough" is http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ch003_am-i-good-enough/ |
| 03:22.38 | Anwaario | oh cool.... |
| 03:22.50 | Anwaario | thanks Olly |
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| 03:24.55 | dfighter | there are 24 orgs with the javascript tag |
| 03:26.10 | Anwaario | I've read everyone. seriously. but I do feel good enough now...so I think I'm good |
| 03:26.41 | Anwaario | every (space) one of the tagged groups |
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| 03:28.07 | dfighter | :) |
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| 03:47.15 | n1cky | did mozilla get accepted this year? |
| 03:48.00 | n1cky | generally you see some pretty good stuff out of there. |
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| 04:20.47 | sean_1 | Hey guys, I've been wondering about how I should pace myself when working on the project for gsoc. Should I try to get things done in short enough time periods to where I have extra time to work on the additional stuff, or should I "give myself" flexible time periods to work in with slower expectations? |
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| 04:31.12 | valorie | sean_1: you know yourself better than we do |
| 04:32.22 | valorie | the more time you spend building a detailed timeline, the better you can pace yourself, in my experience |
| 04:34.01 | swook | I've heard of a rule that more or less says: estimate double the amount of time you expect to spend on a programming task |
| 04:34.17 | swook | I think it's a good rule to think of when writing a timeline |
| 04:34.42 | swook | and if you're faster than your own estimates, that's not a bad thing at all :) |
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| 04:35.52 | valorie | absolutely! more time for debugging and documentation and unit tests and and and |
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| 04:45.42 | olly | had a manager who use to say "take your estimate, triple it, shift to the next units up", so a 2 minute job -> 6 hours, a 1 day job -> 3 weeks, 4 week job -> 12 months |
| 04:46.45 | thiago | sticks to Mr. Scotty's rule of miracle worker |
| 04:46.51 | thiago | multiply by 4 |
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| 04:49.05 | thiago | 2 min -> 6 hours is 180x, which is nonsense. That means you simply have no clue how to estimate. |
| 04:49.50 | olly | it wasn't an entirely serious rule |
| 04:51.05 | kurus92 | how to attach pictures to proposal?? |
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| 04:54.20 | valorie | kurus92: I presume you can use html tags to display an image you host somewhere |
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| 04:55.51 | swook | kurus92: There's a "Insert - Insert Image" menu |
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| 05:09.50 | sean_1 | valorie: yes, which is exactly what I am thinking |
| 05:10.29 | sean_1 | Also, time for me is quite short and I'm not sure if I should push myself to apply for another gsoc project. I know it is a good idea but I have...a lot of assignments and things to do, and a test, within this and next week... |
| 05:10.46 | valorie | !next |
| 05:10.47 | gsocbot | valorie: "next" is GSoC student applications close on 27 March at 19:00 UTC |
| 05:10.47 | sean_1 | I put a lot of effort into this application so I just hope it is enough :) |
| 05:11.01 | sean_1 | Yeah there's not a lot of time |
| 05:11.04 | valorie | that is a hard deadline |
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| 05:12.48 | sean_1 | which is why I think I'm just going to finish this one proposal. haha. |
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| 05:41.06 | LonelyWanderer | Hello to GSOC folks! My name is Maxim Zavadskiy. I am a 4th year IT student and this is my first time applying to GSOC. I have a question to organizers: I during June I will be temporary in another coutry where I don't have eligibility to work but July-August are fine - I will move to my home country |
| 05:41.22 | LonelyWanderer | Would I be still eligible? |
| 05:41.27 | LonelyWanderer | Thank you |
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| 05:45.00 | valorie | LonelyWanderer: my org would not accept a student who would not be able to work for 1/3 of the time |
| 05:45.36 | valorie | but you probably are eligible to apply |
| 05:45.41 | valorie | however: |
| 05:45.47 | valorie | !next | LonelyWanderer |
| 05:45.48 | gsocbot | LonelyWanderer: "next" is GSoC student applications close on 27 March at 19:00 UTC |
| 05:46.00 | valorie | and that is a hard deadline |
| 05:46.23 | LonelyWanderer | yes I know I woke up a bit too late but I guess it worths trying |
| 05:46.52 | olly | i can't see it working unless you're able to start coding around the start of May to make up the missing time |
| 05:47.12 | olly | if nothing else, your midterm would be based on about one week's work if you don't work in June |
| 05:48.07 | olly | you can contribute to open source outside of gsoc though |
| 05:48.25 | valorie | that is the best way to set yourself up for next year, LonelyWanderer |
| 05:48.27 | LonelyWanderer | right, but I don't see the reason, why I could not code during June, is it really official work? |
| 05:48.35 | thiago | yes |
| 05:49.30 | LonelyWanderer | it's little bit strange because for example I would start working on the project in May, I would not need eligibility to work in May right? |
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| 05:49.42 | Niharika | LonelyWanderer: You could make up for that before official start date. |
| 05:49.57 | Niharika | You mentor/org will have to be okay with that though. |
| 05:50.19 | olly | LonelyWanderer: you do |
| 05:50.26 | olly | see https://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2015/studentinfo |
| 05:50.40 | olly | "You need to submit the appropriate tax form as detailed above for any country in which you reside between 27 April 2015 - 21 August 2015. Any work you do on your project outside of these dates is considered volunteer work for the Free and Open Source software community, not participation." |
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| 05:57.16 | LonelyWanderer | olly: thank you very much for this link. However since I don't reside in US: "If you do not do any work inside the United States, regardless of where else you may do work, only a Foreign Certification Form is required." , which basically means that I don't need to submit a tax form? |
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| 05:58.14 | olly | i don't really want to be giving people tax advice... |
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| 05:59.16 | LonelyWanderer | olly: that's fine, no problem |
| 05:59.53 | olly | the faq says "You must also be eligible to work in the country in which you'll reside throughout the duration of the program" |
| 06:00.02 | olly | you don't really seem to fit that |
| 06:00.31 | olly | even if taking a month off makes it ok from that point of view (which I don't know), it makes it rather unworkable for doing a 3 month project |
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| 06:01.24 | olly | and you have 1.5 days until the deadline, so if you've not started, it's rather late to write a good proposal |
| 06:02.04 | olly | if you want to talk to people from google, you'll need to be here during california working hours |
| 06:02.23 | LonelyWanderer | yes seems right, but what means "reside" in that case... I will not be an official resident in the country for June |
| 06:02.24 | olly | but that'll loose you half the time you have left |
| 06:02.32 | thiago | a third |
| 06:03.36 | LonelyWanderer | thank you olly. rather clear reasons not to apply but maybe I will try ;) |
| 06:04.30 | LonelyWanderer | olly: btw are you participant in GSOC? |
| 06:05.03 | olly | thiago: ah yes, i miscounted, it doesn't help much though |
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| 06:05.47 | olly | LonelyWanderer: not as a student |
| 06:05.53 | olly | i've admined and mentored |
| 06:06.05 | olly | not sure if I will this year |
| 06:06.23 | LonelyWanderer | i see |
| 06:07.12 | olly | the org i'm usually with for gsoc didn't get in, but I'm involved with others orgs who did |
| 06:08.13 | LonelyWanderer | can i ask then a piece of advise from you please? were there any accepted proposals that were not so detailed (written in the last minute)? |
| 06:08.44 | LonelyWanderer | i think i have a good idea for one project but time won't allow me to make a detailed attack plan |
| 06:08.45 | olly | can't recall any |
| 06:09.10 | olly | generally orgs will give back a slot (or not ask for one) rather than give it to an uninspiring proposal |
| 06:09.47 | LonelyWanderer | so just having a great idea in the proposal would not convince them? |
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| 06:10.07 | olly | ideas are less valuable than people often seem to think |
| 06:10.38 | olly | orgs are looking for the ability to deliver |
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| 06:17.08 | LonelyWanderer | fair enough, ok, i think i already bothered you quite a bit. it's time for me to stop asking questions. thank you olly for you help! |
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| 07:00.31 | sonali | hi..anyone there?? |
| 07:00.37 | sonali | any mentors there?? |
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| 07:01.12 | valorie | sonali: ask your question, please |
| 07:01.18 | valorie | we can't read your mind |
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| 07:01.53 | sonali | i wrote my proposal for tux4kids organisation |
| 07:02.01 | valorie | cool |
| 07:02.03 | sonali | i wanted a mentor check it |
| 07:02.30 | valorie | then your best place to ask is in the tux4kids org venues |
| 07:02.44 | valorie | irc/forum/list |
| 07:02.51 | valorie | whatever they list |
| 07:02.51 | sonali | well i did but no response... |
| 07:03.14 | sonali | what shuld i do?? |
| 07:03.27 | valorie | ok..... so why then do you think you would get a response here? |
| 07:03.34 | valorie | you should wait |
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| 07:03.36 | Brandan | If they're mostly based in the US, remember its 3 AM on the east coast. |
| 07:03.49 | valorie | midnight here on the west coast |
| 07:04.16 | sonali | hmm okay... |
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| 07:04.51 | sonali | then i can contact them in night only :( |
| 07:05.00 | valorie | perhaps |
| 07:05.35 | valorie | some orgs are international, some are clustered in one place |
| 07:05.53 | valorie | in all, patience is a virtue |
| 07:06.49 | Brandan | They might have an email you can use so you can communicate with them at least once per day. |
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| 07:07.39 | sonali | hmm yeah okay ty |
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| 08:30.25 | logani | Are there any statistic on the age of participants of gsoc? |
| 08:33.01 | logani | Or any informal data of which age there are most participant |
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| 08:51.47 | valorie | logani: I would venture perhaps 20-21 |
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| 08:54.07 | olly | http://google-opensource.blogspot.co.nz/2014/06/google-summer-of-code-2014-by-numbers.html was a histogram by birthyear |
| 08:54.51 | olly | *has |
| 08:55.34 | valorie | aha, 21 |
| 08:55.39 | valorie | I wasn't too far off |
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| 08:57.59 | olly | ISTR that the axis is a bit unclear - the right hand bin must be 1996 to be 18 in 2014 |
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| 08:58.31 | olly | but yes, the peak is probably 21 |
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| 09:28.59 | kblin | is a bit underwhelmed by this year's GSoC turn-out so far |
| 09:30.06 | alexmherrmann | Why do you say that? |
| 09:30.30 | kblin | have yet to read a proposal that makes me go "wow" |
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| 09:31.11 | kblin | a couple of solid ones, sure |
| 09:31.46 | alexmherrmann | Which organization are you mentoring for? |
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| 09:33.46 | kblin | guess :) |
| 09:34.04 | alexmherrmann | Do I have 136 tries? |
| 09:34.21 | alexmherrmann | Process of elimination :) |
| 09:34.56 | kblin | you don't even need to leave your irc client to find out :) |
| 09:34.56 | prth | kblin, samba? |
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| 09:35.36 | kblin | bingo :) |
| 09:37.05 | alexmherrmann | How many proposals have you read so far? |
| 09:37.47 | gevaerts | kblin: if that's because nobody thinks windows interoperability is needed any more, that's a win :) |
| 09:37.57 | kblin | :) |
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| 09:53.40 | darnir | But I'm surprised at how few applications we've seen in GNU too. |
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| 10:00.12 | alexmherrmann | darnir, I would apply for sure if I thought I would actually be helpful in writing some serious C code, as cool as it would be to write code for GCC, that's just a little beyond my scope at this point ;) |
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| 10:01.16 | gevaerts | I'm sure there's more in GNU than gcc :) |
| 10:01.51 | gevaerts | Ah, not this year apparently? |
| 10:02.02 | kblin | right. someone could go and finally fix pyglpk |
| 10:02.12 | darnir | There's a lot more to GNU than GCC. |
| 10:02.13 | teepee-- | sure it is, i just looked at the project list yesterday :) |
| 10:02.43 | teepee-- | someone was looking for libredwg but failed to find the right place to ask |
| 10:02.47 | olly | there's always a last minute rush |
| 10:03.06 | darnir | Wget had some C related projects. But we've seen very little enthusiasm about those. THe Python based projects are in a lot of demand. |
| 10:03.12 | olly | and the orgs always worry that they're not getting as man applications as they expect before that |
| 10:03.14 | kblin | yeah, but I'm not holding my breath for that |
| 10:03.29 | kblin | the main reason being that I can't hold my breath for hours... |
| 10:03.47 | darnir | Neither am I. And I'm basing my statements on the number of applications we've seen in past years. |
| 10:03.52 | kblin | darnir: that's the main change for Samba this year, I guess |
| 10:04.01 | olly | the requirement to provide the student proof makes this worse too, judging by last year |
| 10:04.07 | kblin | we're basically all C-related projects this year |
| 10:04.19 | darnir | I don't think that student proof requirement should change things. |
| 10:04.37 | kblin | last year we had two python ideas that got a lot of proposals |
| 10:04.51 | darnir | I actually made some very interesting observaitons w.r.t. the projects we put out. |
| 10:05.12 | darnir | Lots of applications from India, all for the two Python projects. |
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| 10:06.29 | darnir | A couple from Europe for the C projects. it's almost like no one wants to write C anymore. |
| 10:06.58 | solardiz | i think the 1.1(g)(ii) student eligibility requirement, new this year, hurts a lot. http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2015/student_agreement |
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| 10:08.41 | olly | are many students really any of those? |
| 10:09.29 | solardiz | my reading is that students affiliated with any of the 137 gsoc orgs, and their family members, can't apply to any (other) of the 137 orgs |
| 10:09.56 | solardiz | in our case, we miss at least two good applications because of this |
| 10:11.01 | olly | ah, so (h) really |
| 10:11.07 | alexmherrmann | Were you trying to have a contributors son or daughter apply solardiz ? |
| 10:11.22 | olly | but it isn't just a contributor |
| 10:11.23 | alexmherrmann | Or just a previous contributor? |
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| 10:11.26 | darnir | Oh. I didn't know about the new rules. Let me read them once. |
| 10:11.36 | olly | they have to be an employee, contractor, officer, or director |
| 10:11.48 | solardiz | olly, (h) makes this worse, but the new addition is (ii) |
| 10:12.14 | olly | i find it hard to believe many students really are one of those though |
| 10:12.17 | solardiz | alexmherrmann, in our case they fall under "contractor" and "family member of contractor" (brother) |
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| 10:12.47 | solardiz | alexmherrmann, contractor can mean e.g. that we paid someone to do some work, no matter how minor. turns out this makes them ineligible for gsoc. |
| 10:13.19 | alexmherrmann | Forever? Seems a bit extreme, I guess I see how that could be exploited though. |
| 10:13.21 | gavinatkinson | solardiz: I read it as only being an ssue if they are *currently* a contractor |
| 10:13.39 | alexmherrmann | So stop paying them tonight... |
| 10:13.39 | alexmherrmann | ;) |
| 10:14.16 | olly | it does seem unfair that you're excluded even if some family member is involved in a completely different org |
| 10:14.16 | solardiz | yes, that's my reading too. but we chose not to make adjustments to how we do things merely to make the eligibility requirements formally. would feel like gaming the system. |
| 10:14.57 | solardiz | olly: exactly |
| 10:15.06 | gevaerts | I agree that there's some unfairness, but I also doubt it's actually an issue for many people |
| 10:15.33 | darnir | Wait, does this mean that previous GSoC students are completely ineligible now? |
| 10:15.49 | solardiz | gevaerts: i guess it's many people in absolute terms, yet hopefully a low percentage |
| 10:15.51 | kblin | ? |
| 10:16.04 | gevaerts | darnir: I don't think so |
| 10:16.08 | kblin | why would previous students be ineligible |
| 10:16.16 | olly | only if you read it as "was ever" one of those |
| 10:16.19 | solardiz | darnir: no, unless you accepted them to do work paid by a gsoc org since |
| 10:16.21 | olly | rather than is currently |
| 10:16.26 | gevaerts | darnir: unless you can get carols to state that students are employees or contractors :) |
| 10:16.29 | kblin | "are" is present tense in my book |
| 10:16.40 | darnir | Or even interns. |
| 10:16.51 | darnir | But carols are categorically stated, GSoC is not an internship. |
| 10:16.51 | olly | the student info used to say explicitly that there were technically contractors of google... |
| 10:16.59 | olly | though that seems to have been removed |
| 10:17.01 | gevaerts | But anyway, yes, "last year" is "were", not "are" |
| 10:17.32 | olly | i'd be happier if it said they were ineligible if they were an intern full stop |
| 10:18.01 | kblin | so all I can say that at least according to tax law, in the years I participated I was paid for "independent engineering-related contract work" |
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| 10:18.30 | solardiz | the weirdest side-effect of this new requirement is that if an org is _not_ accepted into gsoc, their contractors, etc. then become eligible to participate in gsoc with other orgs. if the org is accepted, they are not. with any other org. |
| 10:18.46 | olly | "You are considered a contract developer doing work for hire for Google." says http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2012/studentinfo |
| 10:18.51 | olly | 2013 doesn't though |
| 10:19.17 | kblin | solardiz: arguably many open source orgs don't have contractors |
| 10:19.41 | solardiz | kblin: yes, we may be unusual |
| 10:19.43 | olly | so it's really a good thing mozilla didn't get in |
| 10:19.48 | gevaerts | :) |
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| 10:19.51 | olly | it makes more students eligible |
| 10:20.38 | kblin | so e.g. for samba, I guess the gouverning board members could be considered "officers" |
| 10:20.56 | kblin | and would be the only ineligible project members |
| 10:21.31 | kblin | and the people who actually work at google |
| 10:21.53 | kblin | but that rule has been in there from the start, I think |
| 10:22.41 | kblin | I'd argue that if you're currently an intern anywhere, you don't have the time for gsoc anyway ;) |
| 10:22.49 | olly | yes |
| 10:23.02 | gevaerts | kblin: sure, but your sister might! |
| 10:23.03 | olly | sadly too many students think differently |
| 10:23.59 | kblin | gevaerts: ok, there's that |
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| 10:24.08 | solardiz | i guess whoever wrote "contractor" there thought of it as being similar to "employee", whereas in practice it's sometimes a very minor involvement in the org |
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| 10:24.26 | darnir | So, this means my brother cannot participate if I'm a mentor? |
| 10:24.34 | darnir | Even in a different organization |
| 10:25.00 | solardiz | darnir: no, he can |
| 10:25.09 | solardiz | darnir: (h) only refers to (g) |
| 10:25.11 | gevaerts | darnir: it doesn't say that as far as I can see |
| 10:25.14 | kblin | darnir: as a mentor, are you "an employee (including intern), contractor, officer, or director"? |
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| 10:25.49 | darnir | Right. I just saw the part where it relates only to section (g). Not (f). |
| 10:26.01 | darnir | Though for the speficis, I might have to consult a lawyer. |
| 10:26.12 | solardiz | kblin: oh, that's a good question. technically, when we forward the org's mentor stipends on to mentors, we treat them as contractors. |
| 10:26.51 | darnir | GNU requires all contibutors to have a legal contract, where for $1, we need to assign our copyrights to FSF. Does this make us a contractor? |
| 10:27.00 | kblin | darnir: if (h) would relate to e.g. (e), we'd have a really hard time finding eligible students ;) |
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| 10:27.23 | gevaerts | darnir: selling the copyright on something isn't paid work, I think |
| 10:27.37 | kblin | darnir: isn't this mainly a hack to make the copyright assignments work in europe? |
| 10:28.33 | darnir | I'm not sure about that. |
| 10:29.17 | teepee-- | kblin: can't be, copyright *assignment* is simply not possible, the contract might help with the license transfer to allow usage |
| 10:29.49 | kblin | teepee--: well, copyright for things I produce at work belongs to my employer |
| 10:29.56 | teepee-- | (which is why I could also not do public domain) |
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| 10:30.31 | kblin | I mean, IP law is completly screwed up even at local level |
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| 10:30.50 | kblin | trying to get this to work world-wide is bound to have problems |
| 10:31.08 | prth | just to lighten things up, maybe students were distracted by Cricket World Cup :D |
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| 10:31.26 | darnir | prth: Only in India. |
| 10:31.46 | darnir | And again, GSoC applications started before the World Cup became interesting. |
| 10:31.57 | gevaerts | darnir: it became interesting? ;) |
| 10:31.59 | prth | darnir, :) |
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| 10:33.52 | kblin | https://xkcd.com/1107/ ;) |
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| 10:34.54 | darnir | gevaerts: The last NZ vs. SA match was better than any sporting spectacle I've ever seen. |
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| 11:27.12 | da-anda | hey guys - is it possible to move my mentor registration to another google account of mine? Accidently used the wrong one and I'm unable to delete it how it seems |
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| 11:28.41 | gevaerts_ | da-anda: you should ask in #melange, or more likely email the address shown in the topic there |
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| 11:29.38 | da-anda | gevaerts_: thanks, will do |
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| 11:31.06 | |Kev| | da-anda: You could just sign up with the other account, and withdraw the first account from all orgs, couldn't you? |
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| 11:31.59 | da-anda | |Kev|: well, sure, I'd like to keep the username though :) |
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| 11:37.17 | jck | Can I start coding in may if my org is OK with it? |
| 11:37.38 | Niharika | jck: Yes. |
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| 11:38.35 | darnir | I don't see why not. |
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| 12:08.35 | tnkhanh | Can I edit my proposal after application deadline? |
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| 12:08.57 | tnkhanh | which is tomorrow . |
| 12:09.32 | __3ch310n__ | no, tnkhanh no edits after deadline |
| 12:11.29 | sgallagh | tnkhanh: That depends on the mentoring organization |
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| 12:11.43 | sgallagh | They have a toggle that allows them to accept or refuse updates after the deadline |
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| 12:17.03 | kblin | but as long as melange doesn't allow for diffs, I wouldn't count on people doing this a lot :) |
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| 12:25.53 | rahul101 | In the "Additional Info URL" part of the final student submission form, should I put a link/url to a shared google doc/pdf of my proposal? |
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| 12:29.44 | kblin | rahul101: ask your mentors? :) |
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| 12:35.26 | Dany0_afk | is it bad if I'll have to quit uni before 27.4? |
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| 12:40.26 | sgallagh | Does anyone know if students get an email when we comment on their proposals in Melange? |
| 12:40.49 | rahul101 | kblin, All right :) |
| 12:41.15 | sgallagh | We had so many students apply for the same project idea that we are adding additional tasks and want to let them know about them. |
| 12:41.19 | jkridner | olly: you are probably right. :-) |
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| 12:45.51 | kblin | Dany0_afk: check the eligibility rules, I think they're pretty clear |
| 12:45.55 | Dany0_afk | :S |
| 12:46.09 | kblin | sgallagh: I'd hope so |
| 12:46.22 | Dany0_afk | I don't get it though |
| 12:46.25 | sgallagh | kblin: I would too, but I've been wrong before :) |
| 12:46.29 | Dany0_afk | isn't it for students? |
| 12:46.45 | Dany0_afk | I just find it silly that I couldn't participate while in high schol |
| 12:46.47 | Dany0_afk | *school |
| 12:46.59 | Dany0_afk | I don't feel like I know much more than in high school |
| 12:47.13 | Dany0_afk | and why's it matter if I'm part of an institution |
| 12:47.25 | Dany0_afk | meh |
| 12:47.33 | kblin | Dany0_afk: google's money, google's rules? |
| 12:47.42 | Dany0_afk | so what? |
| 12:47.47 | Dany0_afk | I don't understand |
| 12:48.02 | Dany0_afk | sure they do what they want |
| 12:48.07 | kblin | also, I don't think anybody wants to figure out underage employment laws worldwide |
| 12:48.13 | Dany0_afk | oh right |
| 12:48.23 | Dany0_afk | I forgot people get paid for this |
| 12:48.38 | Dany0_afk | I wanted the experience |
| 12:48.42 | kblin | you can of course contribute to open source at any time |
| 12:48.50 | kblin | just talk to the mentoring orgs |
| 12:48.53 | Dany0_afk | I do, that's what I do most of my programming in |
| 12:48.59 | Dany0_afk | hm? |
| 12:49.04 | Dany0_afk | what do you mean |
| 12:49.08 | kblin | or even better, talk to the orgs that applied but didn't get into GSoC |
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| 12:49.14 | Dany0_afk | hmm |
| 12:49.17 | kblin | they likely have a lot of free mentoring capacity |
| 12:49.25 | Dany0_afk | is there a list of those? |
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| 12:49.32 | Niharika | kblin: On a point you made earlier: Melange does allow org admins/mentors to view diffs in proposals now. Dunno if it wasn't a feature last year. |
| 12:49.42 | Dany0_afk | I hate how stupid the laws are |
| 12:49.48 | kblin | Niharika: oh? |
| 12:50.01 | Dany0_afk | the money should be an incentive on top of everything |
| 12:50.06 | Niharika | kblin: And pretty well implemented too. |
| 12:50.08 | Dany0_afk | at least that's how I understand it |
| 12:50.15 | Dany0_afk | not the core concept around everything else revolves |
| 12:50.33 | teepee-- | Dany0_afk: if your main point is not the money, where's the problem then? you have all the possibilities open |
| 12:50.43 | Dany0_afk | dunno, I'll see |
| 12:50.53 | Dany0_afk | I wanted to do something in vala for quite some time |
| 12:50.56 | kblin | Dany0_afk: as far as I understand the initial idea was to give students an opportunity to work on open source instead of getting some other job during summer break |
| 12:51.14 | kblin | "flip code, not burgers" was a tagline that was pretty popular |
| 12:51.15 | Dany0_afk | out of uni I'll have time to indulge in functional programming ^^ I have 3 books, didn't have time to look at any |
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| 12:51.25 | Dany0_afk | oh, really? |
| 12:51.33 | Dany0_afk | I guess I didn't understand gsoc then |
| 12:51.35 | Dany0_afk | fine |
| 12:51.38 | Dany0_afk | thanks anyway |
| 12:51.44 | sgallagh | Dany0_afk: Might be worth talking to the GNOME folks |
| 12:51.47 | sgallagh | (RE: vala) |
| 12:52.02 | sgallagh | Chances are, they'll have a few projects and not enough slots... |
| 12:52.04 | Valodim | "flip bits, not burgers" |
| 12:52.16 | Dany0_afk | is there a list of those orgs that didn't get into gsoc? |
| 12:52.21 | kblin | nope |
| 12:52.24 | Dany0_afk | sgallagh, I hate gnome lol |
| 12:52.38 | kblin | Valodim: possibly |
| 12:52.55 | sgallagh | Dany0_afk: Then why do you care about Vala? Last I heard, GNOME was the only place it even had a foothold. |
| 12:54.14 | kblin | Dany0_afk: but I'm sure if you google for "GSoC ideas 2015", you have a > 2:1 chance of finding an org that didn't get in ;) |
| 12:54.18 | kblin | !stats |
| 12:54.18 | gsocbot | kblin: I have 3 registered users with 3 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 0 admins. |
| 12:54.22 | kblin | no |
| 12:54.26 | kblin | !statistics |
| 12:54.26 | gsocbot | kblin: "statistics" is see !numapps |
| 12:54.31 | kblin | !numapps |
| 12:54.31 | gsocbot | kblin: "numapps" is 2015: 137/416 orgs. 2014: 190/371 orgs; 1304/6313 proposals (by 4420 students). 2013: 177/417 orgs; 1192/5999 proposals (by 4144 students). 2012: 180/406 orgs; 1212/6685 proposals (by 4258 students). 2011: 175/417 orgs; 1116/5474 proposals (by 3731 students). 2010: 151/367 orgs; 1026/5539 proposals (by 3464 students). |
| 12:54.47 | gevaerts_ | is happy to see that even kblin gets confused sometimes :) |
| 12:56.01 | kblin | gevaerts: in currently non-existent spare time, I'm planning to work on a new gsocbot that'll have a web page listing available factoids :) |
| 12:56.13 | gevaerts | Ooooooh! |
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| 12:57.02 | kblin | and a reduced set of weird other commands like !stats |
| 12:58.42 | Dany0_afk | sgallagh, I thought you meant gnome the desktop environment |
| 12:59.07 | sgallagh | Dany0_afk: Well, the GNOME project which includes the GNOME DE, yes. |
| 12:59.14 | sgallagh | But it also includes many applications |
| 12:59.31 | Dany0_afk | it would be weird for me to commit to gnome DE, given my history of "staunch opposition" to their effort lol |
| 12:59.45 | Dany0_afk | I hated gnome 2.x and the double bars |
| 13:00.03 | Dany0_afk | gnome 3.x was a step in the right direction, but some things are just so terribly wrong |
| 13:00.15 | Dany0_afk | sry |
| 13:00.40 | kblin | maybe this is more of a topic for irc.gnome.org? |
| 13:01.00 | sgallagh | Or at least #fedora-workstation |
| 13:01.05 | sgallagh | Or similar. |
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| 13:01.42 | sgallagh | My last statement on the matter will be this: 3.0 until about 3.8 was terrible. It's gotten significantly better over the years. EOF |
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| 13:09.23 | Dany0_afk | I'm a huge fanboy of jonathan blow's programming language project |
| 13:10.30 | Dany0_afk | I listened to all his talks, and kept thinking "of course! of course! OF COURSE! YES! OH MY GOD OF COURSE!" lol, and I saw a lot of the references he linked and they were interesting too |
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| 13:11.36 | Dany0_afk | now whenever I'm programming in C I keep thinking about the ideas he mentioned and just, I'm slightly annoyed this wasn't in C years ago |
| 13:11.48 | Dany0_afk | oh shi- wrong channel |
| 13:11.56 | Dany0_afk | bye |
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| 14:08.37 | siddharth7 | just a small clarification, can we edit the proposal that we submitted on melange website after the student deadline i.e.after 27 march? |
| 14:09.09 | gedare | siddharth7: there is an option for the org you propose to let you edit your proposal, by default you cannot |
| 14:09.31 | gedare | so you should ask them to enable it if you feel the need |
| 14:09.53 | gevaerts | Don't count on it though |
| 14:10.00 | siddharth7 | gedare: thanks for the information |
| 14:10.27 | gedare | yeah, we don't let our students edit their proposals. |
| 14:10.48 | gedare | (past the deadline) *quiets down* |
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| 14:12.18 | gsoccer | Any news on the no of slots per org yet? |
| 14:12.36 | gsoccer | Usually when would it be released? |
| 14:14.18 | blast007 | gsoccer: did you check the timeline? |
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| 14:15.04 | gsoccer | blast007: There seems to be no mention of the same over there... |
| 14:16.48 | blast007 | There are mentions of slot requests and allocations in the timeline. In any case, it will likely not be publicly known until the selected students are announced. |
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| 14:52.07 | jzaefferer | Our organization has now received 69 proposals. I'm wondering if that is normal, a lot, or even close-to-nothing. How many proposals do other orgs get? |
| 14:53.09 | gevaerts | jzaefferer: between five and hundreds. As far as I can see there's no such thing as a typical number |
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| 14:53.31 | jzaefferer | I see, so we might be somewhere in the middle |
| 14:53.41 | gevaerts | games orgs tend to get a lot I think |
| 14:53.58 | gevaerts | And then there's small obscure orgs vs large umbrellas like KDE |
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| 14:56.09 | sumith1896 | Hello, I had query of name to be entered. In all of my official docs I have a single name(no last name) including passport. What should I enter in First name and Last name section? |
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| 14:56.37 | gedare | alphabetical order matters too I think. :) we have received 15 proposals, 2 of which are pseudo-spam |
| 14:56.49 | gedare | which is on par for prior years foru s |
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| 15:00.50 | |Kev| | We've only received a single spam this year (our template with nothing added). We start with X :) |
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| 15:01.22 | |Kev| | (We've received non-spam, too, of course) |
| 15:02.02 | gedare | sumith1896: that sounds like an issue OSPO has to answer, when they wake up :) |
| 15:02.54 | sumith1896 | also what combinations of names will be printed on the certificate, is it First name and Last name? |
| 15:03.28 | |Kev| | I believe there was a thread about this on the gsoc list just the other day. I didn't read it, but I saw that Carol answered. |
| 15:03.41 | |Kev| | Maybe you could check the archives? |
| 15:03.49 | sumith1896 | link me please! |
| 15:04.08 | gedare | lmgtfy... |
| 15:04.18 | |Kev| | sumith1896: You can type the same query into Google that I can. |
| 15:05.27 | sumith1896 | gedare let me know |
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| 15:07.05 | gedare | oh, i didn't actually. |
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| 15:08.38 | gedare | sumith1896: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=google+summer+of+code+students+mailing+list+archives |
| 15:09.02 | gedare | btw i found the answer, carol told the student to use the last name they had on their email. |
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| 15:16.39 | kishoredbn | Hi |
| 15:17.31 | kishoredbn | Is it a must to have my own proposed mentor for - Google Open Source Programs Office mentoring organization? |
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| 15:17.58 | MatthewWilkes | kishoredbn: Yes |
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| 15:20.02 | kurus | can i apply for multiple project in one proposal for same organization |
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| 15:20.55 | teepee-- | kurus: you have to ask the org to clarify |
| 15:21.14 | teepee-- | I'd pretty much expect the answer is no as it would make things much more complicated |
| 15:21.27 | rnikhil275 | !logs |
| 15:21.27 | gsocbot | rnikhil275: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
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| 15:24.22 | kurus | What student will do in pre community bonding period |
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| 15:27.39 | kurus | what to do if i couldnt find any IRC channel or mailining list for the organization in melang page |
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| 15:30.21 | charlie__ | kurus: every org has a way to contact them. you need to look around a little more to know how to contact them |
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| 15:35.07 | charlie__ | gedare: which organisation are you from that received 69 applications till now? |
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| 15:36.10 | gedare | charlie__: i didn't, we received 15. someone else said they got 69. |
| 15:36.31 | gedare | charlie__: but, i'm from RTEMS. |
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| 15:36.34 | charlie__ | gedare: oh okay. |
| 15:36.52 | charlie__ | can any of the KDE mentors tell me how many applications they received ? |
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| 15:49.53 | kesh | hello is student allow to submit more than 1 proposals? |
| 15:49.58 | carols | kesh: sure |
| 15:50.01 | kesh | allowed* |
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| 15:51.56 | kesh | carols org will accept the proposal ? and i think 1 org is not allowed to see another orgs proposal of single student. |
| 15:52.12 | carols | kesh: the org will accept the proposal or not based on their own criteria. |
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| 15:53.02 | kesh | carols then if more than 1 orgs accept a single student then ? |
| 15:53.15 | carols | kesh: then they decide who gets the student. |
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| 15:54.12 | kesh | so one org has to stop his project. ? |
| 15:54.20 | carols | kesh: stop? iâm not sure what you mean. |
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| 15:54.27 | carols | the projects donât start until acceptance. |
| 15:54.34 | downey | kesh: A student can only be accepted to do one project for one organization. |
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| 15:56.18 | downey | tea |
| 15:56.21 | AbdElAziz | i cant reach to the project specification : i need help |
| 15:56.23 | carols | thanks downey |
| 15:56.35 | AbdElAziz | @downy |
| 15:56.55 | downey | carols: we have tasty unhealthy doughnuts too here if you want one |
| 15:57.02 | downey | sorry "craft doughnuts" |
| 15:57.04 | kesh | carols let me clear. like 2 students applying for same project. and 1 will get selected for one project. and by chance the same student also get accepted from another org. and as you said orgs will decide internally. so that project may be stopped because of that student |
| 15:57.08 | carols | downey: iâm fine, already had breakfast, but thanks :-) |
| 15:57.18 | downey | AbdElAziz: Hi there. :-) |
| 15:57.26 | carols | kesh: none of the projects start until student acceptance. |
| 15:57.30 | carols | so no one âStopsâ anything |
| 15:57.33 | AbdElAziz | Hi @downey |
| 15:57.33 | carols | it never started. |
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| 15:58.08 | AbdElAziz | Plz i cant reach the project specification |
| 15:58.36 | kesh | ya that i understand but i think it is unfair to the student who get rejected because of that student. carols dont u think so? |
| 15:58.38 | downey | AbdElAziz: I don't know what you mean. Can you say it differently? |
| 15:58.51 | gevaerts | kesh: which student is that? |
| 15:58.53 | carols | kesh: maybe iâm not understanding what youâre asking. |
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| 15:59.17 | gevaerts | kesh: these resolutions happen *before* students are accepted |
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| 15:59.35 | hoda | hi .... what can i do after submit my documents |
| 15:59.40 | hoda | ? |
| 15:59.42 | gevaerts | So if the org that "loses" the student has another proposal that's good enough, they select that one |
| 15:59.53 | carols | hoda: after you submit your proof of enrollment? you submit you proposal. |
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| 15:59.59 | kesh | ohh i think it will be after the acceptance period |
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| 16:00.24 | Ra3d | @downey: hi , i want your help in a some |
| 16:00.25 | hoda | what proposal please explain ? |
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| 16:00.54 | carols | hoda: have you read the faqs and student manual? i think youâre still missing the whole point of the program. |
| 16:01.26 | hoda | not yet because it's very long ...... ? |
| 16:01.40 | carols | hoda: sorry, i donât understand what you mean. |
| 16:01.42 | dfighter | lol |
| 16:01.42 | downey | Ra3d: I don't know if I can help you but I can try? :-) |
| 16:01.49 | kesh | carols: still confused . you said orgs will decide internally after accepting student in their org. so how it could be possible before accepting? |
| 16:02.12 | carols | kesh: itâs all done before acceptance. itâs possible because thatâs how weâve set up the timeline of the program. |
| 16:02.17 | carols | iâm not sure how else to explain it. |
| 16:02.18 | hoda | i don't read the faqs ? |
| 16:02.38 | Ra3d | what " proposal " mean ? and , on what priciple i will choose ?? :( |
| 16:03.03 | carols | hoda: if you havenât read the faqs thatâs the place to start. |
| 16:03.07 | gevaerts | !studentguide | hoda |
| 16:03.07 | gsocbot | hoda: "studentguide" is http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ or if that site is down https://web.archive.org/web/20150314235727/http://flossmanuals.net/gsocstudentguide/ |
| 16:03.10 | gevaerts | !studentguide | Ra3d |
| 16:03.10 | gsocbot | Ra3d: "studentguide" is http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ or if that site is down https://web.archive.org/web/20150314235727/http://flossmanuals.net/gsocstudentguide/ |
| 16:03.13 | gevaerts | !faq | hoda |
| 16:03.14 | gsocbot | hoda: "faq" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2015/help_page |
| 16:03.15 | gevaerts | !faq | Ra3d |
| 16:03.16 | gsocbot | Ra3d: "faq" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2015/help_page |
| 16:03.23 | carols | thanks gevaerts |
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| 16:04.11 | gevaerts | !learn studentguide as http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ |
| 16:04.11 | gsocbot | gevaerts: "studentguide" is (#1) http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ or if that site is down https://web.archive.org/web/20150314235727/http://flossmanuals.net/gsocstudentguide/, or (#2) http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ |
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| 16:04.17 | gevaerts | !forget studentguide 1 |
| 16:04.17 | gsocbot | gevaerts: "studentguide" is http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ |
| 16:04.22 | gevaerts | the site is back :) |
| 16:04.26 | Ra3d | thank you @gsocbot |
| 16:04.31 | Ra3d | :) |
| 16:04.34 | downey | flossmanuals++ |
| 16:04.48 | kesh | carols: so if student will be selected in both is is possible that org will decide not accepting them |
| 16:04.49 | kesh | ? |
| 16:05.11 | carols | kesh: yes, the student is only accepted by one org, not two. |
| 16:05.13 | carols | thatâs correct. |
| 16:05.19 | carols | a student can only work on one project. |
| 16:05.44 | hoda | thanks all |
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| 16:06.14 | kesh | so before accepting student org will decide if one has appeared in 2 ? |
| 16:06.36 | carols | kesh: i think you mean weâll determine if any students are duplicates? if so, then yes, we do that. |
| 16:06.53 | gevaerts | kesh: I really wouldn't worry so much about the duplicate acceptance case. It only happens rarely |
| 16:07.09 | carols | what gevaerts said |
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| 16:07.34 | kesh | ok. and last question whether will it create negative impact if student applied for 2? |
| 16:07.58 | carols | kesh: it will only be negative if an organization asks you if you applied at more than one org and you lie and say you didn't |
| 16:08.03 | carols | as long as youâre honest, itâs fine |
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| 16:08.29 | gevaerts | kesh: no, apart from only having half the time available for each proposal to make them really good |
| 16:08.58 | carols | as gevaerts said, you should really focus on just getting one good proposal accepted, not worrying about making two |
| 16:08.59 | bond007 | carols: hey! my college's name is X and it is affiliated to Y university , what should I put in school name? |
| 16:09.09 | carols | bond007: Y |
| 16:09.18 | bond007 | Okey! |
| 16:10.07 | AbdElAziz | stupid question : but am i need to submit proposal before deadline ? |
| 16:10.20 | carols | AbdElAziz: if you want to submit a proposal before the deadline, yes. |
| 16:10.41 | carols | if you want to ask for an extension and be denied... |
| 16:10.52 | carols | you can be included with so many others doing the same thing tomorrow :-) |
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| 16:11.20 | carols | but we have very strict rules against not accepting anyone who doesnât apply |
| 16:11.36 | AbdElAziz | is a proposal depend on a specific motoring organization ? |
| 16:11.37 | Valodim | was waiting for that line to appear at some point :3 |
| 16:11.54 | kesh | ya carols that i know but it is really tough to decide whether an org will accept you or not |
| 16:11.58 | carols | AbdElAziz: iâm sorry? |
| 16:12.03 | carols | kesh: you donât decide, the org does |
| 16:12.08 | carols | have you spoken to them? |
| 16:12.18 | kesh | what ? |
| 16:12.28 | carols | kesh: you should have a very good sense of what they are looking for in their student proposals and how good of a chance you have by now |
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| 16:13.17 | kesh | yes carols i understand that but if there are multiple students for the same project you can't decide |
| 16:13.43 | carols | kesh: itâs true. they decide. |
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| 16:13.48 | carols | just be the best one. |
| 16:15.51 | kesh | ok thanks carols |
| 16:15.54 | carols | cheers |
| 16:16.01 | kesh | :) :) |
| 16:16.05 | heller_ | So we got those new minimum wage laws here in Germany where we are required to document the work hours of minimum wage workers (which student workers usually are). Does anyone know how this applies to the GSoC funding for students? |
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| 16:16.36 | carols | heller_: funding for gsoc students is a flat rate based on pass/fail |
| 16:16.52 | carols | how you determine hours is between you, your government, and your mentoring organization |
| 16:17.21 | heller_ | carols: ok. Can we just declare it as a stipend then? |
| 16:17.31 | carols | heller_: it is a stipend. |
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| 16:17.52 | heller_ | Ok. That's good enough. I mean we don't employ the students after all |
| 16:18.00 | carols | heller_: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2015/help_page#17._employment |
| 16:18.02 | heller_ | Thanks for the clarification |
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| 16:18.05 | carols | yw |
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| 16:20.01 | MatthewWilkes | Dealing with German law is like that old joke, when someone asks for directions getting the reply "Well, if I were you, I wouldn't start from here". |
| 16:20.10 | AbdElAziz | dsilakov |
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| 16:23.45 | dumindux_ | hi is there an importance in how I order my proposals at melange if I have multiple proposals? |
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| 16:24.51 | carols | dumindux_: you should rank them in order of preference. |
| 16:25.23 | dumindux_ | carols: Ok thanks :) |
| 16:26.01 | carols | cheers |
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| 16:35.44 | carols | serves some tea and coffee |
| 16:35.51 | downey | bakes lol cookies |
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| 16:36.57 | carols | haha |
| 16:37.03 | carols | i really want some of those now :-) |
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| 16:43.29 | Corey84 | downey, you are gonna share righ t? |
| 16:43.32 | Corey84 | :P |
| 16:43.36 | downey | always, this is open source :) |
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| 16:57.05 | dufferzafar | Are organizations free to make any change they want to the ideas list? |
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| 16:57.12 | carols | dufferzafar: yes |
| 16:57.12 | dufferzafar | (in re: https://github.com/github/gsoc/issues/75) |
| 16:57.43 | dufferzafar | someone worked on an idea and submitted the proposal, and then the idea was changed |
| 16:57.55 | carols | dufferzafar: thatâs between the org and the student |
| 16:58.16 | AbhToChill | International Neuroinformatics Coordinating Facility - their irc link is not working |
| 16:58.20 | AbhToChill | it gives error |
| 16:58.35 | carols | AbhToChill: then please contact them to let them know |
| 16:58.51 | Corey84 | AbhToChill, what network and channel ? |
| 16:59.04 | AbhToChill | https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org2/google/gsoc2015/incf |
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| 16:59.22 | AbhToChill | it seems more like their irc isnt properly filled in field |
| 16:59.44 | AbhToChill | so cant get their channel or anything |
| 16:59.55 | carols | AbhToChill: then please contact them. |
| 17:00.32 | AbhToChill | thought maybe it was problem with me i guess i will contact them from their website |
| 17:00.33 | AbhToChill | thanks |
| 17:00.37 | carols | yw |
| 17:00.47 | kwikadi | with respect to what dufferzafar said, how is it ok to remove/change the idea once the proposal period has begun and people have submitted proposals? Doesnt it essentially equate to favouritism? |
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| 17:01.08 | carols | kwikadi: possibly it does, thatâs something you should bring up to the org |
| 17:01.55 | kwikadi | huh. ok |
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| 17:18.57 | alia | hey folks, how to watch all the public comments made by mentors? |
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| 17:19.27 | alia | may be other students' too |
| 17:19.28 | alia | ? |
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| 17:20.53 | alia | kblin? |
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| 17:21.50 | d4r3topk1 | Can someone tell me whether enrollment form of my starting year of college (letter of admission) be considered? I'm in 3rd year now, so will google accept that? |
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| 17:22.19 | Arihnt | how to use irc? |
| 17:22.28 | carols | Arihnt: youâre using it. |
| 17:22.35 | d4r3topk1 | I've already uploaded it but want to make sure it doesn't get rejected because of that. |
| 17:22.54 | Arihnt | do i need to download irc client? |
| 17:22.57 | alia | carols: how to watch all the public comments made by mentors? may be other students' also |
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| 17:23.31 | carols | alia: it depends on whether the proposal is public or not. |
| 17:23.50 | alia | but comments are always public right? |
| 17:23.53 | carols | if itâs public, and you have the link, you can see it on there. |
| 17:23.55 | carols | no, theyâre not. |
| 17:24.01 | carols | there are private comments too. |
| 17:24.19 | alia | but how to watch public comments? |
| 17:24.23 | alia | and which links? |
| 17:24.35 | carols | alia: did a student give you a link to the proposal they made? |
| 17:24.45 | carols | (and make the proposal public) |
| 17:24.51 | alia | nope |
| 17:25.00 | carols | well, then thatâs the problem |
| 17:25.06 | alia | without link is it possible? |
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| 17:25.11 | carols | alia: nope |
| 17:25.52 | alia | ohh then it like gdocs shared with the person having link |
| 17:26.06 | alia | is it so carols> |
| 17:26.07 | alia | ? |
| 17:26.11 | alia | :) |
| 17:26.19 | carols | alia: um, no. itâs just public or private. |
| 17:26.29 | carols | and if itâs public you can see it, but you have to have the url. |
| 17:26.40 | alia | then without link why not ? |
| 17:26.53 | carols | because students get to choose who they want to share their proposals with. |
| 17:26.57 | carols | we donât make that choice for them. |
| 17:27.06 | alia | ok good |
| 17:27.41 | alia | but if i am talking about public comments? then the same is applied? |
| 17:28.02 | carols | alia: if the comments are public and the proposal is public and you have the url of the proposal, yes, youâll be able to see the comments. |
| 17:28.22 | alia | ok.thanks mam . |
| 17:28.27 | carols | yw |
| 17:28.36 | alia | :0 |
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| 17:51.08 | Sriyan | I cannot add my Gsoc proposal to my dash board and it just shows "Drag proposals to order them" |
| 17:51.20 | carols | Sriyan: have you submitted your proof of enrollment form? |
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| 17:53.43 | vin-ivar | folks |
| 17:53.46 | Sriyan | no I havent submitte t it yet. Is it the reason? |
| 17:53.53 | vin-ivar | if my documents aren't valid, I should be getting a mail, right? |
| 17:53.55 | carols | Sriyan: yep |
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| 17:54.02 | carols | vin-ivar: correct |
| 17:54.17 | Sriyan | <@carols> no I havent submitte t it yet. Is it the reason? |
| 17:54.18 | vin-ivar | alright, good, so I can assume they're all in order? |
| 17:54.23 | carols | Sriyan: yep |
| 17:54.29 | carols | vin-ivar: for now, yes. |
| 17:54.46 | Sriyan | k thnx @carols |
| 17:54.49 | carols | yw |
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| 17:55.25 | vin-ivar | cheers |
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| 17:55.50 | vin-ivar | and just in case the mail got caught in a filter or something - would there also be a notification on my dashboard? |
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| 17:55.58 | carols | vin-ivar: no |
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| 17:56.27 | vin-ivar | ah, damn. I should trawl through my mails, just in case. could you let me know what the subject/sender is? |
| 17:56.31 | SandeepRaparthi_ | Hi all :) |
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| 17:56.52 | Rish | can we edit proposal after the deadline (27th march) |
| 17:56.54 | Rish | ? |
| 17:57.04 | carols | vin-ivar: you are probably fine if you havenât received anything |
| 17:57.13 | carols | Rish: by default, no. |
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| 17:57.26 | carols | your org can choose to allow proposal modifications if they want |
| 17:57.32 | Rish | ohkay |
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| 17:57.43 | Rish | thanks |
| 17:57.45 | vin-ivar | alright, thanks |
| 17:57.48 | carols | yw |
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| 17:58.29 | MatthewWilkes | An example of what the proposal modification is intended for is if two students submitted excellent but overlapping proposals, to allow them to refine their objectives somewhat. Generally it will only be enabled by the mentors in exceptional circumstances, as we want to judge a proposal, not a moving target. |
| 17:59.13 | Rish | aha...interesting.. |
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| 17:59.58 | Rish | and also I wnated to know like how to know the probabilities of your project getting selected? |
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| 18:00.08 | carols | Rish: have you asked the org? |
| 18:00.19 | gevaerts | !odds | Rish |
| 18:00.19 | gsocbot | Rish: "odds" is Odds, chances or probability really do not come into play for GSoC. Rambling off numbers or asking What are the odds of getting accepted... is really quite useless as one's acceptance is not dictated by luck or numbers, but by the quality of your proposal and your skills instead. |
| 18:00.19 | Rish | for what? |
| 18:00.23 | carols | their selection criteria is what determines whether youâre selected |
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| 18:01.55 | Rish | ohkay...but like even if one mentor likes your project how to make sure that even the resrt likes it |
| 18:02.05 | downey | resrt? |
| 18:02.05 | carols | Rish: ask them |
| 18:02.33 | Rish | ohkay... |
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| 18:04.12 | Rish | carols: they say its good enough but i really dont know how positive is that :P |
| 18:04.22 | carols | Rish: well, neither do we :-) |
| 18:04.30 | Rish | heheheheh.. |
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| 18:05.14 | Rish | well nervousness gets all these kind of questions |
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| 18:06.27 | namratab94 | Which time zone is google-melange website on? |
| 18:06.42 | carols | namratab94: it depends on what you mean, but generally UTC |
| 18:06.49 | carols | the calendar on the events page is in pacific time |
| 18:07.41 | namratab94 | I am specifically referring to the time that is being displayed while I click to see the revisions of my proposals. |
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| 18:07.48 | MatthewWilkes | Rish: One of the big unbreakable rules of GSoC is no leaking or hinting about acceptance to applicants. Google gets to break the news, all we can do is ask for more information or tell you that certain things aren't what we're looking for. |
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| 18:08.53 | Rish | MatthewWilkes: thanks...but still like if u see few proposals that seems to be interesting to you then you show it right? |
| 18:09.16 | Rish | you show interest in them....you ask for ore info...or do you do it for each and ecery proposal? |
| 18:09.41 | gsoc494 | <bazel> |
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| 18:14.16 | Rish | is there any limitation to length of proposal? |
| 18:15.18 | carols | Rish: i donât believe so. why not put your whole proposal in there, and if it gets cut off let us know? |
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| 18:16.02 | Rish | hehehhe...there is no word limit...but there mihgt be some disadvantages of long proposals as such |
| 18:16.18 | Rish | else everyone would be putting their complete data in there |
| 18:16.29 | carols | Rish: thatâs to discuss with the org. |
| 18:16.36 | Rish | ohkay |
| 18:16.38 | Rish | thanks |
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| 18:16.42 | carols | yw |
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| 18:18.16 | Niharika | !next |
| 18:18.18 | gsocbot | Niharika: "next" is GSoC student applications close on 27 March at 19:00 UTC |
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| 18:35.14 | sean_1 | Hey all, I was wondering what the "Additional info url" ought to be. Perhaps a pdf form of my proposal? |
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| 18:35.44 | sean_1 | Although that isn't technically additional info |
| 18:36.08 | tnkhanh | hi |
| 18:36.52 | tbr | sean_1: I saw discussion that some people had a fancy \LaTeX proposal, so in that case they could link to the PDF (while providing a plain text in the form) |
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| 18:37.06 | sean_1 | tbr: yeah mine was in LaTeX too! thanks man |
| 18:37.40 | tnkhanh | hm hi |
| 18:37.44 | tbr | sean_1: you should still fill the form itself, as that's being locked down, etc |
| 18:39.20 | sean_1 | tbr: yes that is what I did |
| 18:39.28 | sean_1 | I had to remove all the markup |
| 18:39.36 | sean_1 | after copy + pasting it in |
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| 18:39.40 | techsayan_ | Hi. I lost my college ID card, is a letter from any of with a proper college stamp work for enrollment documents for gsoc? Thanks in advance |
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| 18:40.04 | carols | techsayan_: if itâs listed on the proof of enrollment instructions as acceptable, itâs acceptable |
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| 18:40.46 | techsayan_ | Ok. Thanks |
| 18:40.57 | carols | yw |
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| 18:55.23 | sean_1 | would it be best to list questions along with answers? I listed all my answers without the questions... |
| 18:55.49 | sean_1 | I think I'm going to do it because not doing it might make them annoyed |
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| 18:59.44 | gevaerts | sean_1: if you mean questions asked by the organisation in the application template, only the organisation can tell you |
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| 19:12.57 | sean_1 | gevaerts: alright. i included them just in case. |
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| 19:36.05 | carols | serves some afternoon tea and coffee |
| 19:36.13 | meflin | mmm tea |
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| 19:38.27 | tbr | hmm, time to kick off a "you have <24h to get your proposal in" mail to the project mailing list |
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| 19:39.30 | d4r3topk2 | carols: Will you be knowing whether the enrollment form can be of my admission letter also or not? I am in 3rd year now, the admission form was issued in 1st year. So will the faculty at google deduce me being in 3rd year now? |
| 19:39.51 | carols | d4r3topk2: most likely, yes. we see a lot of enrollment forms. |
| 19:40.24 | d4r3topk2 | So, should I worry for a updated enrollemnt form? As very less time is left, I don't have any other proof. |
| 19:40.51 | carols | d4r3topk2: you should worry if you get an email telling you you need to submit another form |
| 19:40.52 | d4r3topk2 | Will my proposals be rejected, if at a later time, the faculty doesn't accept my enrollment form? |
| 19:41.12 | d4r3topk2 | Before the deadline or after it? |
| 19:41.16 | carols | d4r3topk2: youâll be told before the deadline if we need another form |
| 19:41.49 | d4r3topk2 | You are 100 percent sure right? I've worked a lot for the proposal. I don't want it to go wasted because of my enrollment form. |
| 19:41.56 | carols | d4r3topk2: i am 100% sure. |
| 19:42.10 | d4r3topk2 | Really appreciate your help. Thanks a lot. |
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| 19:42.14 | carols | yw |
| 19:42.24 | gevaerts | d4r3topk2: carols makes the final decisions on these things |
| 19:42.25 | d4r3topk2 | :) |
| 19:42.39 | d4r3topk2 | Its my lucky day then. =P |
| 19:43.36 | d4r3topk2 | I see some people rolling now for projects. =S |
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| 19:52.42 | noob171 | heelo |
| 19:52.46 | carols | hi noob171 |
| 19:53.07 | noob171 | just a new user trying to make head and tail of the irc world |
| 19:53.16 | carols | good luck! |
| 19:53.29 | noob171 | any tips? |
| 19:53.38 | meflin | www.irchelp.org |
| 19:53.43 | noob171 | thanks |
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| 19:54.37 | aerophile | !next |
| 19:54.42 | gsocbot | aerophile: "next" is GSoC student applications close on 27 March at 19:00 UTC |
| 19:55.32 | noob171 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:55.41 | meflin | change your password |
| 19:55.46 | carols | noob171: iâd recommend changing your password from that one |
| 19:55.55 | gevaerts | recommends trying again without the space at the start |
| 19:56.12 | noob171 | thanks |
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| 19:58.45 | up | Hi guys |
| 19:59.06 | carols | hi up |
| 20:00.21 | up | @carols: Do the orgs ask for more updates after proposal submission ends? |
| 20:00.30 | carols | up: sometimes. |
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| 20:03.01 | up | @carols: Do the orgs submit the proposals to Google review wise or project based ? |
| 20:03.12 | carols | up: google doesnât review proposals. |
| 20:04.06 | up | @carols: So what happens when there are 6 projects but only five slots allotted to an org? |
| 20:04.21 | carols | up: they decide who they want to accept and who they want to reject. |
| 20:04.24 | carols | and then they do that. |
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| 20:07.13 | up | @carols: I have submitted my enrollment form at melange, it contains the college logo and other details but there is no signature or stamp on it |
| 20:07.22 | carols | up: okay |
| 20:07.47 | up | @carols:Is there any chance they might reject it? |
| 20:07.54 | carols | up: sure, thereâs a chance. |
| 20:08.23 | carols | if youâre asking if the transcripts have to be official, the answer is no. |
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| 20:09.37 | up | @carols: ok thanks |
| 20:09.40 | carols | yw |
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| 20:17.28 | tnkhanh | hi |
| 20:17.34 | carols | hi tnkhanh |
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| 20:26.37 | tnkhanh | !ask |
| 20:26.38 | gsocbot | tnkhanh: "ask" is Don't ask to ask, just ask. |
| 20:26.48 | tnkhanh | !help |
| 20:26.48 | gsocbot | tnkhanh: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. |
| 20:26.58 | carols | tnkhanh: youâre welcome to do that in a pm with gsocbot |
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| 20:27.05 | carols | if you have a question, weâre happy to try to answer it |
| 20:27.18 | tnkhanh | carols: thanks, I'll do that :D |
| 20:27.22 | carols | great |
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| 20:28.22 | MisterDev | Hi everybody |
| 20:28.36 | carols | hi MisterDev |
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| 20:38.37 | MisterDev_ | Anybody knows how much time usually passes between my Enrollment Proof submission and the eventual Google reply? |
| 20:38.52 | carols | MisterDev: if the enrollment is fine, there is no google reply |
| 20:39.10 | carols | we canât send 12,000 emails in addition to checking 12,000 proofs of enrollment :-) |
| 20:39.35 | carols | byw |
| 20:39.41 | carols | guess that was the wrong answer |
| 20:39.50 | carols | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:39.53 | gevaerts | once accidentally sent 3000 emails to himself |
| 20:40.08 | carols | gevaerts: better that than 3000 poeople |
| 20:40.16 | gevaerts | Yes, rather! |
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| 20:40.45 | downey | wonders if 3000 new emails would be noticeable in his inbox |
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| 20:40.58 | downey | that's like 1 day on the gsoc student lists :) |
| 20:41.06 | carols | downey: yep, pretty much |
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| 20:43.50 | MisterDev | Yes I know :) I wrote âeventual replyâ to say in case there is a problem |
| 20:44.36 | gevaerts | MisterDev: in English "eventual" means something slightly different than in most other languages :) |
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| 20:48.59 | MisterDev | I was checking what "eventual" means right now, I've used the wrong word :) |
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| 20:52.08 | sss_ | carols: Hello, I wanna ask that what purpose does ordering of proposal serves? |
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| 20:52.29 | meflin | student ? |
| 20:52.50 | sss_ | Is it related to de-duplicate problem |
| 20:52.57 | sss_ | meflin: ya I'm a student |
| 20:53.00 | meflin | nope |
| 20:53.16 | meflin | as a student it maters not |
| 20:53.23 | meflin | AFAIK |
| 20:53.56 | sss_ | meflin: then, if I've submitted multiple projects, why does it show "drag proposal to order them" |
| 20:54.33 | meflin | no idea |
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| 20:55.09 | meflin | if you do end up in a duplication scenario ... the choose not the student |
| 20:55.09 | sss_ | carols: please? |
| 20:55.21 | carols | sss_: whatâs the question? |
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| 20:56.12 | sss_ | carols: I'm a student. and in proposal it shows drag the proposal to order them. What purpose does that fulfills ? |
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| 20:56.29 | carols | sss_: itâs potentially used in deduplication as meflin said |
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| 20:56.50 | sss_ | by students? |
| 20:56.57 | carols | no |
| 20:56.59 | carols | by orgs |
| 20:57.38 | downey | carols: i assume orgs will see that data at some point if the need arises? |
| 20:57.39 | sss_ | for ex. last time I was asked abt which org to choose during deduplication, so will that still be same? |
| 20:58.07 | meflin | orgs choose if they ask students |
| 20:58.14 | carols | downey: i donât knowâ¦good question to ask the melange folks |
| 20:58.23 | carols | sss_: what meflin said |
| 20:58.36 | sss_ | ok got 'em |
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| 21:27.50 | kimphill | hi, I'm being asked to register on google-melange.com with the QEMU organization. It appears I'm already registered with the website, but how do I do the "with the QEMU organization" part? The QEMU 2015 page (whose URL I have to manually adjust based on the old 2014 search results) has questions with no submit button (and they say to contact the mentor, where I'm trying to join as a mentor)...is the website broken? |
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| 21:29.04 | meflin | kimphill: student or not? |
| 21:29.15 | kimphill | I'm not a student, no. |
| 21:29.31 | meflin | make a connection if you need to be a mentor |
| 21:30.01 | ismnoiet | hello again, i would like to know i'n interested in a project do i have to talk with the mentor first or i have to write the proposal |
| 21:30.25 | meflin | either and both and you are running out of time |
| 21:30.38 | digitalextremist | you have under 24 hours to submit a proposal |
| 21:30.54 | olly | kimphill: https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/connection/pick/google/gsoc2015 (it's under "My Dashboard") |
| 21:31.17 | olly | there's no "join as mentor" button on the org page as otherwise students would be hitting it and having to get their accounts reset |
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| 21:32.23 | ismnoiet | yes i know and thank you for the answer |
| 21:32.50 | kimphill | olly, that page says "Active profile is required to access this page" |
| 21:32.53 | olly | i would do both concurrently at this point |
| 21:32.58 | olly | kimphill: then create a profile |
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| 21:33.26 | kimphill | olly, ah, thank you! |
| 21:33.33 | olly | (you have to create a new one each year - I don't know why) |
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| 21:36.00 | meflin | olly: name space issues thing about it |
| 21:36.17 | kimphill | olly, it's asking me too many questions about school...should I just answer them all with my ancient graduation date? |
| 21:36.35 | meflin | mentors are not asked such questions |
| 21:36.57 | downey | school means you're on the student track |
| 21:37.02 | downey | err, school questions |
| 21:37.12 | meflin | err that :D |
| 21:37.25 | kimphill | argh. I'm just trying to do what I was told, i.e., complete a profile |
| 21:38.22 | kimphill | yes, it's a student profile...how to complete a non-student profile? |
| 21:38.30 | downey | kimphill: sounds like you're completing "a" profile, just didn't get the right one :-) |
| 21:38.57 | kimphill | ah, ok, now I see.. |
| 21:39.02 | downey | :-) |
| 21:39.08 | kimphill | the other profiles were off the bottom of the screen |
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| 21:41.19 | olly | meflin: i don't follow, the username is the same each year |
| 21:41.27 | olly | you just create a new profile for it, don't you? |
| 21:41.41 | olly | which means reentering all the address info, and agreeing to the T&Cs |
| 21:41.46 | olly | I can see the last step is needed |
| 21:41.49 | meflin | I think not .. the username is created when you do the profile ( possible I"m wrong ) |
| 21:42.02 | olly | that was weeks ago, but I think not |
| 21:42.09 | kimphill | I'm going to assume the "at school" answer option for the question "How did you hear about the program?" to mean "at work", since the latter isn't available |
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| 21:42.54 | meflin | you sure you on the right path? ( keep in mind we cannot see this form ) |
| 21:43.16 | Robert_S | If you are not going to be a student in the program, you should not fill out this form. |
| 21:43.36 | kimphill | page title is "Create mentor profile" |
| 21:43.49 | meflin | Robert_S: previously established not a student |
| 21:44.02 | kimphill | I'm just glad it didn't ask me for my school and graduation date details :) |
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| 21:44.04 | meflin | looks good to me |
| 21:44.17 | Robert_S | meflin: thx. |
| 21:45.00 | olly | Robert_S: the mentor/admin form also has "At school/from my professor or advisor" |
| 21:45.18 | Robert_S | Yes. That's a generic pulldown. |
| 21:45.28 | Robert_S | It also has an "other" box. |
| 21:45.35 | meflin | I never know how to answer that question |
| 21:45.48 | meflin | to old to exp .. to forgetfull to remember? |
| 21:45.59 | olly | i do "Other" and "participated in previous years" |
| 21:46.08 | meflin | hmm nice |
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| 21:46.48 | olly | i guess that's more relevant that how I heard about it in ~2005 |
| 21:46.54 | olly | which i can't recall anyway |
| 21:47.28 | olly | it seems the profile form does ask for username |
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| 21:47.48 | olly | it seems confusing if the same username in different years can be different people... |
| 21:47.58 | Robert_S | olly: I don't think it cna. |
| 21:48.16 | olly | ok, that was meflin's logic for why one has to do a new profile each year |
| 21:48.32 | olly | which seems inefficient as melange knows almost all the answers already |
| 21:48.45 | olly | and seems to confuse a lot of returning mentors |
| 21:48.53 | Robert_S | Yes. It's on the "things to improve" list. |
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| 21:49.12 | olly | that'd be nice |
| 21:50.16 | meflin | ah well can't be right all the time |
| 21:50.34 | Robert_S | Yup |
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| 21:50.39 | meflin | unless you are my student ;) in that case I am always right ;) |
| 21:51.05 | Calchan | yeah, right |
| 21:51.16 | meflin | snicker |
| 21:52.36 | kimphill | you guys sound funny, but in any case I'm registered, have requested a role w/QEMU, and should be done for now - so much thanks for your help! |
| 21:52.42 | downey | we are a bit funny :) |
| 21:52.47 | downey | kimphill: and congrats :) |
| 21:53.04 | meflin | happy mentoring |
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| 22:06.42 | vinaykumar | hi |
| 22:06.54 | carols | hi vinaykumar |
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| 22:07.22 | vinaykumar | I have submitted a proposal for one project... But I don't see it in the dashboard.. |
| 22:07.33 | vinaykumar | has anyone experienced this problem? |
| 22:07.58 | carols | vinaykumar: if you donât see it on the dashboard youâll need to submit it again |
| 22:08.10 | vinaykumar | I did! |
| 22:08.22 | vinaykumar | I don't see it even after second submission |
| 22:08.35 | carols | vinaykumar: then please file a bug with the melange team. |
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| 22:08.56 | vinaykumar | but when I clicked on submit button, I dot "Data saved successfully" message... |
| 22:09.04 | vinaykumar | #got |
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| 22:31.46 | vinay__ | hi |
| 22:33.53 | carols | hi vinay__ |
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| 23:08.50 | sean_1 | Hello everyone, I was wondering if it was permissible to send in a proposal without having been able to communicate with a mentor first. |
| 23:09.11 | sean_1 | Perhaps it is slightly rude but the deadline is drawing close. |
| 23:09.16 | carols | sean_1: yes, you can |
| 23:09.30 | sean_1 | carols: excellent, i will do so then. thank you. |
| 23:09.33 | carols | yw |
| 23:09.38 | meflin | do your best |
| 23:10.27 | sean_1 | meflin: I try ;) |
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| 23:37.33 | dfighter | sometimes I can really passionately hate Melange :\ |
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| 23:45.29 | pwright | any essential advice for a good proposal for GSoC? |
| 23:45.46 | dfighter | be realistic, precize, detailed |
| 23:45.50 | meflin | be excellent |
| 23:46.11 | meflin | also become part of the community |
| 23:46.21 | pwright | do you need open source experience prior to applying? to be selected |
| 23:46.28 | meflin | no |
| 23:46.56 | pwright | okay, thanks :) |
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| 23:49.48 | olly | not helpful advice at this point I'm afraid, but I'd start several days before now... |
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| 23:50.37 | olly | but if you're starting now, get on with it, and in parallel try to talk to the org (as it typically takes them a while to respond) |
| 23:50.54 | dfighter | except if you are MatthewWilkes, he can get accepted to anywhere with only a day of work :P |
| 23:51.17 | olly | we've yet to see that |
| 23:51.50 | olly | he's not exactly starting from the same point as a typical student with no prior FLOSS development experience |
| 23:51.58 | meflin | he might be special he got a whole sub up in 4 hours |
| 23:52.20 | dfighter | don't take it seriously, I'm just messing around ofc |
| 23:53.01 | dfighter | but nevertheless we all know that MatthewWilkes is the Jeff Dean and Chuck Norris of GSOC :) |
| 23:53.20 | meflin | and he DID flop on the idea's page once ;) |
| 23:53.22 | olly | was just picturing him as Sean Connery in the Hunt for Red October |
| 23:53.32 | olly | after the "sub" comment |
| 23:53.53 | meflin | so who is the roving mercenary ? |
| 23:57.08 | meflin | no takers I'll go with Chow Yun Fat then |
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