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| 02:24.27 | ramkwo | Good evening, people... I've remembered about this great opportunity to participate in GSoC just today. After reading the FAQ I still have an unanswered question. The timeline says that organizations will start submitting applications in February. It was also said that it is good practice to contact with the organization beforehand. But how do I contact them and discuss their ideas if they haven't posted their ideas yet? |
| 02:25.33 | ojwb | ramkwo: you can't know for sure which orgs are going to be accepted this year, but you can see who took part last year |
| 02:25.50 | eoc` | look for last year's participants and ask them if they work on a new ideas page
maybe you find some (-, |
| 02:25.53 | ojwb | and most orgs thinking of applying already have a public ideas list |
| 02:26.12 | ojwb | try googling for something like gsoc ideas list |
| 02:26.31 | ramkwo | ah, thanks... I'll certainly try |
| 02:34.24 | thebolt | Morning |
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| 03:53.02 | techbreak | how do I select an organisation ? |
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| 04:02.29 | cosmopolitan | they haven't been posted yet |
| 04:02.54 | cosmopolitan | they won't be posted until 18 March |
| 04:03.27 | cosmopolitan | but you can look at last year's organizations, many of them return |
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| 04:08.57 | joshua__ | I'm pretty sure this is the list of organizations: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 |
| 04:19.13 | joshua__ | Past organizations that is. |
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| 07:03.03 | rishi_kumar | hi |
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| 07:59.41 | LahiruS_ | Hi all, im new to gsoc and think to do a java project, can anyone give some tips |
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| 08:10.36 | thiago_home | find a project that works on java |
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| 08:27.39 | Abhishek_Singh | does Mozilla participate in GSOC? |
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| 08:29.18 | cosmopolitan | every year |
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| 08:46.42 | milki | everyone always asks the same questions >.> |
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| 09:02.19 | ojwb | there's no guarantee that an org will take part this year just because they always have in the past |
| 09:02.31 | ojwb | Abhishek_Singh: if you want to know if mozilla will apply, ask them |
| 09:02.43 | cosmopolitan | but Mozilla will |
| 09:02.49 | ojwb | if they've taken part previously and done a good job, chances are they'll be accepted if they apply |
| 09:05.09 | Abhishek_Singh | ojwb: thanks for your response |
| 09:05.50 | Abhishek_Singh | I took part in gsoc 2010 for osgeo, it was an amazing experience:) |
| 09:06.03 | cosmopolitan | i'm hoping to get in this year |
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| 09:06.28 | frrvr | me too |
| 09:06.45 | cosmopolitan | couldn't participate last year, hoping i have what it takes to get accepted this year |
| 09:07.51 | Abhishek_Singh | this year I am looking forward to contribute to some other open-source project |
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| 09:08.57 | cosmopolitan | i'm hoping to do some work with Boost, i love C++ the most, and i just finished an Advanced Data Structures course, so it seems like the best fit for me |
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| 13:13.49 | shadeslayer | !next |
| 13:13.49 | socinfo | shadeslayer: "next" is February 28, 19:00 UTC: Mentoring organizations can begin submitting applications to Google. |
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| 15:22.48 | kblin | darn, and here I thought I knew how to program python |
| 15:28.43 | naeg | date |
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| 15:34.06 | thebolt | hi kblin |
| 15:34.10 | thebolt | how're you doing ? |
| 15:34.23 | kblin | thebolt: learning some more python, it seems |
| 15:34.28 | kblin | http://paste.pound-python.org/show/3143/ |
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| 15:35.52 | thebolt | kblin: hm, that seems strange.. what's going on? |
| 15:37.16 | kblin | http://blog.objectmentor.com/articles/2008/05/22/pythons-mutable-default-problem |
| 15:37.27 | kblin | was just pointed out to me on #python |
| 15:37.37 | kblin | basically, the mutable object stays around |
| 15:38.22 | thebolt | ah |
| 15:38.25 | thebolt | stupid :P |
| 15:39.02 | kblin | I'm so glad I had tests in place that caught this in a small, isolated test case |
| 15:39.31 | kblin | my pastebin is a cut down version of the real code, but the test is pretty similar |
| 15:39.43 | kblin | this would have been hell to find in the real code |
| 15:41.40 | lucian | it's really annoying. i'd say a flaw |
| 15:41.41 | thebolt | yea |
| 15:42.08 | kblin | I agree. if you don't know this, you stare at it for ages and don |
| 15:42.10 | kblin | 't get it |
| 15:45.50 | bubble_ | anyone here applying in C ?? |
| 15:48.20 | kblin | bubble_: beg your pardon? applying in C as in applying for a C-based project? |
| 15:48.43 | bubble_ | kblin: yes |
| 15:49.42 | bubble_ | yes kblin |
| 15:49.59 | gevaerts | bubble_: just out of interest, why does this matter? |
| 15:49.59 | kblin | there's usually only few people around who still know C, in my experience |
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| 15:51.28 | bubble_ | gevaerts: I'm new to gsoc and a beginner so I thought if anybody could help me with a piece of advice |
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| 15:51.46 | kblin | just ask your questions, I guess :) |
| 15:51.58 | ojwb | that's a good piece of advice |
| 15:52.10 | gevaerts | bubble_: I can't think of any gsoc-related advice that would depend on implementation language really :) |
| 15:52.34 | gevaerts | Apart from that, I tend to do C |
| 15:52.42 | gevaerts | (not as a gsoc student though) |
| 15:53.26 | lucian | i'd stay away from C |
| 15:53.31 | gevaerts | Why?> |
| 15:53.37 | lucian | it annoys me to no end |
| 15:53.50 | gevaerts | Ah, right. Personal differences :) |
| 15:53.54 | gevaerts | likes C |
| 15:53.56 | lucian | i've written pretty big things in C, and i've always managed to break them |
| 15:54.01 | lucian | it's just horribly unsafe |
| 15:54.19 | gevaerts | I disagree |
| 15:54.26 | gevaerts | It's *differently* unsafe, maybe |
| 15:54.28 | lucian | Cyclone (http://cyclone.thelanguage.org/) would've been a vast improvement, but it seems to have died |
| 15:54.34 | lucian | no, it's just plain unsafe |
| 15:54.42 | gevaerts | So is everything |
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| 15:55.04 | lucian | null terminated strings, expressions with side effects, pointers without bounds checking |
| 15:55.22 | bubble_ | gevaerts: what would you advice me, knowing I'm totally new to all this ? |
| 15:55.30 | lucian | it looks almost like it was designed to encourage security bugs |
| 15:55.39 | lucian | bubble_: do you know C well? |
| 15:55.45 | gevaerts | bubble_: I can't give any advice if the question is that vague :) |
| 15:55.49 | lucian | let me rephrase that, what language do you know best? |
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| 15:56.22 | bubble_ | lucian: C |
| 15:56.32 | bubble_ | gevaerts: vague as in ?? |
| 15:56.40 | gevaerts | lucian: you mean, as opposed to languages that are designed to hide how everything works? |
| 15:56.54 | kblin | bubble_: "what is your advice" is not a good question |
| 15:57.00 | gevaerts | bubble_: as in "I can't figure out what the question is" |
| 15:57.01 | Mathnerd314 | lucian: it was designed to be close to the hardware. blame the hardware for making bugs easy... ;-) |
| 15:57.04 | lucian | bubble_: ok, then look in the list of possible projects and choose ones you might like |
| 15:57.24 | lucian | Mathnerd314: gevaerts: i disagree. there are a few changes to C that would make it much, much safer |
| 15:57.28 | lucian | without hiding anything at all |
| 15:57.40 | bubble_ | I have never applied for gsoc and I never even knew about it till recently |
| 15:57.42 | lucian | this is very well evidenced by Cyclone |
| 15:57.47 | lucian | bubble_: it's awesome :) |
| 15:58.11 | kblin | lucian: it's safer than assembler |
| 15:58.16 | gevaerts | lucian: ok. I thought for a moment you were advocating some of those recent OO disasters :) |
| 15:58.19 | lucian | kblin: that's not saying much |
| 15:58.29 | lucian | gevaerts: not C++, worry not |
| 15:58.46 | kblin | C.NET? ;) |
| 15:58.57 | gevaerts | kblin: isn't that a news website? |
| 15:58.58 | lucian | kblin: is that even a thing? |
| 15:59.23 | kblin | lucian: not that I know of |
| 15:59.55 | bubble_ | what will be the selection criteria ?? |
| 15:59.55 | lucian | there's managed C++ running on .NET if that's what you meant |
| 16:00.13 | lucian | bubble_: mostly likelihood of success |
| 16:00.35 | gevaerts | bubble_: first of all there are of course the requirements to apply in the first place (be 18 or older, be enrolled somewhere, ... That's online somewhere) |
| 16:00.56 | bubble_ | lucian: as in .. interview or some sort of test ?? |
| 16:01.12 | gevaerts | After that, convince the organisation that (a) the project you want to do is worthwhile (if you pick one from their ideas list, that shouldn't be hard), and (b) you can do it |
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| 16:01.46 | lucian | bubble_: you submit a proposal and chat with people in the respective organisation |
| 16:01.48 | gevaerts | How that happens depends on the organisation, but there are some general rules |
| 16:02.09 | gevaerts | Make sure the proposal is good, detailed, and plausible |
| 16:02.42 | bubble_ | do organisations indulge language related questions too ?? |
| 16:02.47 | gevaerts | Try to work within the organisation before the selection, e.g. fixing bugs |
| 16:03.28 | gevaerts | I haven't heard of formal exam like things |
| 16:03.51 | gevaerts | Some organisations like qualification tasks though, e.g. you get one or two weeks to accomplish a specific task |
| 16:04.03 | bubble_ | gevaerts: if I want to apply for gnome |
| 16:04.28 | gevaerts | I can't speak for gnome. I have no idea how they work, or even what their software looks like these days |
| 16:05.19 | gevaerts | In general though, organisations want to know if (a) you're competent and you either have or can learn the skills you need, and (b) you can interact well with them |
| 16:05.55 | bubble_ | so, the soft skills do matter a lot |
| 16:05.56 | bubble_ | ? |
| 16:06.24 | gevaerts | If you specifically want to apply with gnome, you have it easy (only one organisation to deal with!). Run their software for a while, find bugs in it, submit bug reports, investigate the bugs, submit patches |
| 16:06.45 | gevaerts | That's valid in general, but if you have seven candidate organisations it's tedious :) |
| 16:06.54 | lucian | bubble_: what i found useful is frequenting irc and ml of the orgs i was interested in |
| 16:07.14 | bubble_ | lucian: ml ?? |
| 16:07.19 | lucian | mailing list |
| 16:07.26 | lucian | i usually choose 3-5 projects i care about |
| 16:07.40 | lucian | then naturally a few become unfeasible, redundant or plain stupid |
| 16:07.44 | lucian | i get left with 1-2 |
| 16:08.10 | bubble_ | how does mailing lists help ?? |
| 16:08.17 | lucian | bubble_: read what's going on |
| 16:08.24 | lucian | introduce yourself |
| 16:08.46 | bubble_ | and organisations too have irc channels specific to them ?? |
| 16:09.04 | lucian | bubble_: not as clear-cut as that, but they tend to |
| 16:09.10 | lucian | projects tend to, to be more precise |
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| 16:09.33 | lucian | for example for gnome, try gimpnet (irc.gimp.org) |
| 16:09.43 | gevaerts | Open source projects communicate in some ways. Those include irc, mailing lists, and forums. Which of those are more prominent varies |
| 16:09.46 | lucian | there are channels in there for a lot of things |
| 16:10.45 | bubble_ | should i join a mailing list now ? or when soc is started ?? |
| 16:11.22 | lucian | bubble_: do everything as soon as possible |
| 16:11.31 | gevaerts | bubble_: just look at it from the other side. Suppose you have to pick one person for a project, and you have two candidates. One has a really nice proposal, while the other one has a really nice proposal *and* has fixed two bugs, asking for help when he was in doubt so the patches are good. Which one do you pick? |
| 16:11.32 | lucian | you can look at the lists of orgs for last year |
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| 16:13.06 | bubble_ | how do I fix for gnome ? I hear they have a database |
| 16:13.41 | gevaerts | Ah, that's another general rule for gsoc: try to find out things on your own and don't ask for help with every little thing :) |
| 16:13.59 | lucian | bubble_: i'm assuming you use gnome |
| 16:14.09 | lucian | think of something you'd like fixed or improved, in general |
| 16:14.30 | lucian | you can try gimpnet #gnome-hackers and ask around what could be done |
| 16:14.35 | gevaerts | Start with bugs I'd say. Improvements can be controversial |
| 16:14.49 | khrm | bubble_:https://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi?classification=__all |
| 16:15.09 | khrm | search the app you will like to work or bugs you will like to fix. |
| 16:15.22 | gevaerts | Submitting a patch for a new feature that you think is clearly a good idea but that turns out to cause a flamewar every time someone suggests it isn't the first impression you're aiming for |
| 16:15.43 | |Kev| | <PROTECTED> |
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| 16:16.27 | bubble_ | thank you everyone for your advice |
| 16:16.48 | bubble_ | |Kev|: and how can I do that ? |
| 16:17.09 | lucian | bubble_: i told you. connect to irc.gimp.net #gnome-hackers |
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| 16:40.45 | shadeslayer | bubble_: and subscribe to their devel mailing lists etc :) |
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| 16:41.34 | bubble_ | shadeslayer: thank you :) I'm finding it |
| 16:41.46 | shadeslayer | ok ... |
| 16:42.37 | shadeslayer | idk for sure, but i think gnome will probably be/ is in feature freeze ( in a few weeks? ) ... so alot of scope for bug fixing |
| 16:42.53 | shadeslayer | is more of a KDE Guy |
| 16:44.11 | gevaerts | is more of a "I have a window manager, why would I need one of those desktop things?" guy |
| 16:44.26 | naeg | awesome ftw |
| 16:45.12 | shadeslayer | personal choices really ... :) |
| 16:46.26 | gevaerts | I'm still using ion2 |
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| 17:01.14 | mlankhorst | gevaerts: im using kde, but mostly launch things through konsole :p kde is just for drawing a background and task bar items |
| 17:01.48 | gevaerts | mlankhorst: sounds a bit heavyweight for that :) |
| 17:02.22 | mlankhorst | shrug, konqueror + kwebkit is pretty nice |
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| 17:25.08 | mlankhorst | needs ubuntu to make sure they dont break shit between releases for wine ;) |
| 17:26.50 | naeg | for what do you need wine? I hated that so much when I was using it |
| 17:27.29 | gevaerts | He didn't say he needs wine :) |
| 17:27.49 | naeg | assumed |
| 17:29.18 | kblin | naeg: and you hated wine because of...? |
| 17:29.54 | naeg | some things work in one release, but not in the next, then you would have to install several versions of wine |
| 17:30.09 | naeg | currently i prefer booting my real windows installation with qemu |
| 17:30.52 | kblin | bug#? |
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| 17:31.26 | mlankhorst | naeg: usually regressions have a high priority of fixing if you can isolate the bug and assign it to the person who broke things :\ |
| 17:31.33 | naeg | nahh, the way with qemu is much easier ;) |
| 17:31.36 | gevaerts | naeg: as a general hint: don't say you hate program X to random people in this channel. They may well be involved in them |
| 17:32.06 | gevaerts | Except when you want a lively discussion of course :) |
| 17:32.34 | mlankhorst | gevaerts: I no longer take attacks on wine personally :) |
| 17:32.36 | naeg | well, you are right. I'd better say i hated to use it, ofc it has it's use, but not for what i need windows |
| 17:33.31 | naeg | I don't blame any dev, I understand it's hard to do what wine does |
| 17:34.10 | mlankhorst | what really helps are regression testers though, if a program breaks in a new version its easy to find out what broke as long as you are willing to spend time in it :\ |
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| 17:34.26 | gevaerts | hates it when people use wine to run a program that also has a linux binary, available on the same page |
| 17:34.40 | mlankhorst | gevaerts: I do that :( |
| 17:34.46 | kblin | gevaerts: not if the linux binary sucks ;) |
| 17:35.04 | naeg | and what program would that be? |
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| 17:35.07 | gevaerts | mlankhorst: yes, but you may have a good reason :) |
| 17:36.02 | naeg | mlankhorst: i used to do so when i was using wine, but after some time it was much easier for me to use a real windows installation |
| 17:36.21 | gevaerts | mlankhorst: does windows libusb work on wine yet? |
| 17:36.41 | naeg | (note that i'm a archer, so i was always using the newest wine accordingly) |
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| 17:37.14 | mlankhorst | it depends, i dont think all patches are in yet |
| 17:37.32 | gevaerts | It didn't work for that particular user anyway |
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| 17:39.30 | kblin | naeg: there was a game that was styled like that game this hacker in "wargames" played, and the first few releases for linux really sucked |
| 17:39.42 | kblin | they probably fixed it by now |
| 17:40.04 | mlankhorst | played world of goo on linux with wine ;) |
| 17:40.16 | naeg | didn't see that film, but somehow i am interested it it now. what is the game called kblin ? |
| 17:40.27 | gevaerts | mlankhorst: the thing is, if it didn't work, who would you have complained to? |
| 17:40.40 | kblin | naeg: don't remember, I'm afraid :) |
| 17:40.51 | naeg | is it world of goo? |
| 17:41.17 | kblin | world of goo is a game where you play a bunch of black blobs |
| 17:41.31 | kblin | the game I'm talking about is like thermonuclear war |
| 17:41.38 | gevaerts | Sounds similar :) |
| 17:41.43 | mlankhorst | gevaerts: it depends, I just looked at appdb.winehq.org for world of goo, but it required no special things |
| 17:42.35 | kblin | gevaerts: no, world of goo is probably set a couple of thousand years after the thermonuclear war finished ;) |
| 17:42.47 | gevaerts | mlankhorst: the thing that annoyed us most back when this one user had a problem was that he didn't mention wine at all. It took a while to figure out that when he said he ran the tool on ubuntu, he meant he ran the windows binary using wine on ubuntu |
| 17:43.06 | kblin | gevaerts: fun :) |
| 17:43.07 | mlankhorst | :x |
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| 17:43.56 | Waren | yop |
| 17:44.25 | naeg | is wargame a film i should have seen? |
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| 17:44.52 | kblin | hm, it's one of the classic hacker movies, but I don't think it's very good |
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| 17:46.20 | naeg | is it actually "real"? not like in matrix where she "hacks" some computer with ssh by simply knowing the password, which is really lame...(but well, that movie isn't about hacking) |
| 17:46.55 | kblin | naeg: well, is using a wardialer to find an open line into a computer "hacking" |
| 17:46.57 | mlankhorst | naeg: actually iirc she used an existing exploit :p |
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| 17:47.21 | gevaerts | And proper social engineering counts :) |
| 17:47.33 | mlankhorst | and anyhow she already got into the matrix, by that point you can bend spoons, why worry about a fake password? |
| 17:48.27 | naeg | dunno what to say to that :P |
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| 19:13.40 | sanchit | m jus a beginner...know c/c++ n elementary java |
| 19:13.42 | sanchit | can u tell me how can i contribute to drupal for the same |
| 19:13.43 | sanchit | basic steps of getting started ll do |
| 19:13.45 | sanchit | anybdy |
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| 19:14.49 | gevaerts | sanchit: I'd say that you should ask that in a drupal channel |
| 19:17.24 | sanchit | gevaerts, drupal is an option as i said dat m jus a beginer...so wud like to know wid this much knowledge which company shud i opt ap[art from drupal |
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| 19:17.59 | thiago_home | sanchit: look at last year's list of accepted organisations |
| 19:18.11 | thiago_home | this year's list doesn't exist yet |
| 19:19.11 | |Kev| | sanchit: In the various OSS communities, some look down on text-speak. I'd recommend not using it unless you already know it's acceptable. |
| 19:19.23 | |Kev| | It could quickly damage your chances with some orgs. |
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| 22:41.20 | pygi | hey folks |
| 22:41.24 | pygi | any KDE guys around? :D |
| 22:41.49 | Nightrose | pygi: not a guy but... |
| 22:41.49 | pygi | thiago_ comes to mind, if I'm not wrong? :p |
| 22:41.50 | Nightrose | ;-) |
| 22:42.01 | thiago_home | not wrong |
| 22:42.02 | Nightrose | what do you need? |
| 22:42.06 | pygi | ah |
| 22:42.14 | pygi | I wanted to bug somebody about porting k3b to libburnia libs :D |
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| 22:42.34 | Nightrose | do you want to do it as a gsoc project? |
| 22:42.48 | pygi | ummm, to be honest, I think it would be easier for me if I mentored it :p |
| 22:43.14 | Nightrose | ok it would need a mentor from the k3b team in addition |
| 22:43.32 | pygi | ok, I'm a mentor from libburnia :P |
| 22:43.44 | thiago_home | but feel free to put it in our ideas page |
| 22:43.47 | Nightrose | please email their mailing list and see if they think it is a good idea and if someone is willing to be the co-mentor |
| 22:43.59 | pygi | thiago_home just googling for it :p |
| 22:44.12 | Nightrose | once you have their ok put it on the ideas page |
| 22:44.39 | pygi | ay captain |
| 22:44.42 | pygi | :p |
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| 22:44.48 | Nightrose | http://community.kde.org/GSoC/2011/Ideas |
| 22:44.54 | Nightrose | cool :) |
| 22:45.03 | Nightrose | if you have questions you can always ask in #kde-soc |
| 22:45.06 | pygi | k3b is only major software missing libburnia support me thinks |
| 22:45.16 | pygi | well, apart from gnomebaker which is mostly due to me being lazy |
| 22:45.17 | pygi | :D |
| 22:45.22 | Nightrose | heh |
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| 23:44.32 | SuSi_21 | hi |
| 23:44.51 | SuSi_21 | does anyone know how could I train for gsoc? |
| 23:46.43 | mlankhorst | There's no training, just look at google on what previous summer of coders wrote ;) |
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| 23:48.26 | joshua__ | SuSi_21, if you don't know how to program one way to train would be to start learning now |
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| 23:56.39 | SuSi_21 | thank you everyone |