irclog2html for #gpe on 20050130

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09:49.01koen'morning all
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12:30.53florian_hi all
12:33.03koenhey florian_
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13:07.18florian_hey pb_
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13:14.09koenhey pb_ and bedboi
13:14.14bedboihi there koen
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13:26.59pb_florian: hello!
13:27.34florianah this keyboard is better :-)
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13:41.07reenooafternoon
13:41.17pb_hi reenoo
13:41.24reenoohey pb_
13:42.04florianhi reenoo
13:42.18koenhey reenoo
13:42.22reenoohey florian
13:42.25reenooyo koen
13:43.30koenbooting a 2.6 kernel on a h5550 can only be done by replacing /boot/zImage ?
13:44.18pb_no, just install the new kernel as /boot/zImage-2.6 or something.
13:44.53koenhow will bootldr now to boot that?
13:45.40pb_oh, you want 2.6 to be the default?  in that case, yeah, make it /boot/zImage, or set the default kernel in /boot/params.
13:46.57koendual booting would be the best option right now
13:52.18koenpb_: 'boot jffs2 /boot/zImage-2.6' in bootldr  would boot it?
13:52.25pb_yes
14:23.15reenoohmm.. the open graphics project sounds interesting. I wonder if one could do something similar with a pda as the goal
14:25.35reenoo(i.e. develop a pda with full specs available aimed at running linux/*bsd)
14:26.24florianreenoo: do you have a link?
14:26.36reenoohttp://kerneltrap.org/node/4622
14:26.51pb_reenoo: yes, you certainly could, but it's not clear that it would make a lot of economic sense.
14:27.53pb_the opengraphics thing is viable because you can start out with FPGAs, then move to standard cell ASICs (and, ultimately, custom ASICs) when your sales volumes justify it.
14:28.31pb_with a handheld, you have to absorb a lot of up-front costs for mechanical design and case tooling before you can build any product.
14:29.38florianhmmm indeed...
14:31.14floriancase production is really expensive and if you want a little bit more than just a case for a simple pcb and tft it starts to become rally nasty.
14:31.25pb_right
14:31.57pb_I think it would cost around 100000 euros to make a case comparable to those that the ipaq or zaurus have.
14:32.50reenoohmm, too bad.
14:33.35pb_it's also not completely clear to me that designing a new device would buy much.  You would still have to use most of the same ASSPs that are in other devices, and this is where most of the problems are caused.
14:35.38pb_on the ipaq, for example, we don't generally have a problem finding out details of the board-level design.  The difficulty is that there is no programming information for chips like the ATI 3200.
14:38.35reenooyah, I guess there's a lot more involved than what's "visible" to me
14:40.22reenooas for the case.. I suppose one could start with a carbon fiber case. unfortunately that's not going to work out even in small numbers (too much manual work)
14:41.20florianThat might be ok for a prototype, but they are not that cheap afaik.
14:41.47pb_yeah
14:42.05pb_for prototypes (say, 1-10 units) you can use stereolithography.  But for anything more than that, injection moulding is about the only option.
14:47.31reenooright
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15:48.41koenhey TygBob
15:50.01TygBobHeya koen
15:50.05TygBobhow's it goin?
15:50.17TygBobgee, I'm a poet, and didn't know it
15:50.25koenheh
15:50.27koenpretty good
15:50.33koenhow's it going with you?
15:50.35TygBobkinda lame, actually :)
15:50.50TygBobgood.. wife's working today so I have all three kids to myself
15:50.56TygBobthey're being "challenging"
15:51.08TygBobthey're in their chairs having snacks right now..
15:51.17TygBobso I'm have a brief coffee haitus
15:51.37TygBob%s/haitus/hiatus
15:53.05TygBobDid a bk pull and it looks like there's some interesting things in there today
15:53.10koenyeah
15:53.38koenminimo being the best change
15:53.47TygBoboo.. what's new with minimo?
15:54.08TygBobit's still too big for sectest, though,
15:54.18koenit now correctly obeys CVSDATE
15:54.29TygBobAhh. cool.
15:55.08TygBobhey.. tell me what you think of this:
15:55.42TygBobI was thinking about a knoppix type distro that has bitbake setup on it.
15:55.59TygBobso I could pop it into my fast machine here for a quick build, if necessary.
15:56.15TygBobI guess the only problem would be that it would be out of date 30 secs after I made it.
15:56.48TygBobbut if you could do a bk pull on the stuff in the ramdisk, then do your bitbake...
15:57.50koensounds good
15:58.06TygBobjust a thought..
15:58.31TygBobmaking this machine dual boot into Linux isn't going to happen, so I'm looking at other alternatives.
16:04.50koen*sigh*
16:05.22koenthe deadline for this assigment is way shorter than the bureaucratic roundtrip for the info I need
16:08.33TygBobThat's no good.
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17:13.21TygBobwhy'd you have it out?
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17:13.30koenit hangs midboot
17:14.28TygBobAhhh
17:14.49TygBobDid you modify anything to change the prefered rxvt-unicode version?
17:15.08koenno
17:15.23koenthe only change I have locally is the fstab
17:15.55TygBobwhat did you change there?
17:16.20koenadded the second bank of flash
17:16.35TygBobyou change that to the default?
17:16.44koenyeah
17:16.54koendefault /home that is
17:16.56TygBobvery nice.. where are you mounting it to?  please say /home
17:17.10TygBobgreat.. that's where I put mine anyway.
17:18.07TygBobAnd if anyone doesn't have that bank mapped, then it just fails relatively silently, eh?
17:18.42koencorrect
17:18.52TygBobgood idea.
17:19.27TygBobI have my wifi script sitting in /home to get it up and running right away after a reflash, so I can do the manual editing via SSH
17:20.13koenI need to write a script to copy back my interfaces, dropbear key, hostname and stuff
17:20.46TygBobthere's a good idea..
17:21.00koenafter some hours of reading docs, testing and using tcpdump I can conclude that my broke ipv6 over cable
17:21.49koenwhich mean I can't test mobile-ipv6 with my powerbook and ipaq
17:21.57koenmeans*
17:22.00TygBobAhhhh
17:23.44pb_koen: can you elucidate on "my broke ipv6 over cable" at all?
17:24.01koens/my/my uni/
17:24.08pb_ah
17:24.09koenthey don't route back to me
17:24.33koenas they didn't change routes I guess my bits get routed back to the campus
17:24.54koenTHey still can't explain why I get the adverts :)
17:25.24koenpb_: it works great using local link and familiar 0.8
17:25.45TygBobso I can attach it to an iPAQ button.
17:25.52pb_koen: ah, very good.  I don't think anyone else has tested mipv6 recently.
17:28.03koenTygBob: http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jamey_Hicks/talks/HP_IPv6_Seminar_April_2004.pdf
17:28.22koen250+ pages of ipv6 goodness
17:30.10koenah, the same in 65 pages: http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jamey_Hicks/talks/041118-ipv6.pdf
17:32.52florianbbl
17:33.03koenbye florian
17:40.08TygBobcool.. thanks
17:40.47TygBobmy ssh tunneling to a localhost webserver on my office bitbake box seems to be working as a feed for ipkg :)
17:40.55koenheh
17:42.39koenpb_: the mipl docs talk about the "upcoming 2.6 version of the linux kernel"
17:43.03pb_TygBob: heh, cool
17:43.21pb_koen: doh
17:43.21koenlooks like the mipl folks need to revise them
17:43.58TygBobor, at least it was until the iPAQ went to sleep :(
17:44.27TygBobworking now
17:44.47TygBobhey.. kernel upgrade
17:50.59TygBobpb_, do you know if anyone's looking at that PCMCIA interrupt issue with the sleeves?
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17:53.28florian_kcre
17:53.34koenhey florian_kc
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17:56.37koenhey Cwiiis
17:56.45CwiiisHey koen
17:58.21koenaaargh
17:58.22TygBobHi Cwiiis
17:58.28koenI solved my midboot hangs
17:58.33CwiiisHey TygBob
17:59.35pb_TygBob: which issue was that, again?
18:00.53TygBobwith pcmcia based ethernet
18:01.29TygBobwhere it's very slow, with lots of dropped heartbeat/ interrupt messages
18:01.45TygBobunless you do a ping out, for some reason, in which case it seems to certainly work better.
18:02.01pb_ah, right, that one.  no, I don't think anyone is looking at it right now.
18:02.09TygBobit's in the familiar bugtrack from a while ago.
18:02.38TygBobno crisis.  the ping thing helps, but it's limiting wrt to using the iPAQ for VA's
18:02.54TygBobDon't want to be pinging away in the middle of a test.
18:03.00pb_heh
18:03.07TygBobhrm..
18:03.24pb_florian_kc: wb
18:03.33TygBobre florian_kc
18:03.40TygBobnothing after tux
18:03.50TygBobtime to check it on the serial console.
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18:16.32koenTygBob: try using this on the ipaq: http://freedesktop.org/~mallum/xdamagevnc it's not 100% stable, but it works well enough
18:17.55florian_pb_: about this sdk issue we talked about yesterday: isn't the arm-linux-gcc crosscompiler supposed to call the binutils with arm-linux prefix?
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18:18.08rob_w|pdahi
18:19.07koenhey rob_w|pda
18:19.32TyggerBobhrm.. no inittab..
18:19.37rob_w|pdaoh minimo does ssl , good job
18:19.40pb_florian_: no
18:22.11TyggerBobhrm.. it's in the rootfs on for my image build, but doesn't seem to have made it into my /etc dir
18:23.14TyggerBobany way to copy individual files onto the iPAQ through bootldr?
18:23.16TyggerBobprobably not, eh?
18:24.20pb_no
18:25.09koenpb_: should bootstrap depend on sysvinit-inittab?
18:25.15pb_no
19:04.06koen|tvbooking a trip?
19:04.16pb_yah, trying too.
19:04.19pb_s/too/to/
19:04.44pb_sadly it keeps changing the price for the flight I want.
19:04.53koen|tvyeah
19:04.59pb_(in an upwards direction)
19:05.35koen|tvthe fare to bordeaux increased sixfold when I wanted to fly around 8 am
19:05.48pb_heh
19:06.13pb_yah, I could understand the fare going up if I was actually changing any of the details.
19:06.39koen|tvthat's certainly very strange
19:07.05pb_in this case, I go to the flight search screen and it offers me one price.  I click on "choose this flight", it thinks for a bit, and then says "oh, we're sorry, the price for this flight has gone up".
19:07.24pb_at first I thought it was just my bad luck, but if I go back to the start and search again, it still offers me the lower price at the first stage.
19:08.01pb_hrm.  www.aua.com seems to be the slowest website on the planet.
19:09.47pb_doh
19:09.49pb_403 Forbidden
19:10.13pb_maybe it doesn't like my mozilla.
19:10.29koen|tvaargh
19:10.48koen|tvmy uni put the human factor back into the online registration thingy
19:11.34koen|tvnow I have to wait till tomorrow morning to see which books I need
19:12.38pb_heh, oh dear
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19:37.44pb_oh well.  looks like expedia is as good as it gets.
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20:23.51pb_hi zecke
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20:50.47koen|tvhmmm, I probably will offend him when I send this: http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/pda/files/reply
20:51.57reenoodon't feed the troll
20:52.26reenooI'm pretty pissed about that one as well but it's no use really
20:52.34koen|tvthat's why I clicked the X instead of the send button
20:52.51koen|tvlet's ignore him and hope he goes away
20:55.14koen|tvlooks like mickeyl put on some flameretardent materials
21:08.54reenooheh. yeah. great response
21:09.38reenooa lot of truth in it actually
21:10.42reenoothe "1000s of users complaining" part in particular :/
21:21.31TygBobkoen|tv, LOL.. I bet that was therapeutic, though, eh?
21:21.42koen|tvindeed
21:22.16TygBobGotta run.. gotta make supper for the squirts.
21:22.30koen|tvTygBob: good luck
21:22.37TygBobMom's got a staff meeting this arternoon
21:22.42TygBobafternoon, even
21:23.00TygBobshake and bake pork chops, mashed potatoes and green beans..
21:23.08TygBoblater all
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21:38.41florian_re
21:38.58koen|tvflorian_: wb
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21:48.57koen|tvhey mallum
21:51.16mallumhey mr koen|tv
21:54.15mallumkoen|tv, hows it going ? good weekend ?
21:54.46mallumflorian_, about ?
21:55.01koen|tvmallum: pretty good
21:55.27koen|tvgot my grades back, the lowest being 7.6 out of 10 :)
21:55.34mallumkoen|tv, rock :)
21:55.38mallumwell done
22:03.22CwiiisGood going koen|tv :)
22:04.11koen|tvCwiiis: thanks, did you get any grades back?
22:05.01Cwiiiskoen|tv: No exam grades back, had a few courseworks - All been good so far :) My exams are still going, got 3 more in the coming week and then they're over... The 3 I've done so far have gone quite well though, so I'm feeling fairly happy about things at the moment :) Still got lots of revision to do though...
22:05.23koen|tvsounds good
22:05.42koen|tvthe new semester start tomorrow, so I'll be busy the next month
22:08.43florian_bbl
22:08.45*** part/#gpe florian_ (~florian@dns.kernelconcepts.de)
22:23.21Cwiiiskoen|tv: Heh, I'm looking forward to my new semester - finally some time to work on OE again :) hehe
22:33.31Cwiiiskoen|tv: So do I :p hehe - I'll fix it as soon as my exams are over hopefully
22:38.29koen|tvmallum: are there plans to support inotify in mb?
22:38.55mallumkoen|tv, yeah definetly
22:39.01koen|tvcool
22:39.13mallumkoen|tv, maybe use gamin or something though
22:39.26koen|tvyeah, gamin looks pretty nice
22:39.39mallumkoen|tv, I started hacking a mbdesktop using the gtk icon view()
22:40.14mallumkoen|tv, but it didn't really do enough, I spoke to andersca and it seems it may be best to wait for 2.7 when it has custom cell renderers
22:42.36koen|tvwhat's the gain in using gtk?
22:43.31mallummore memory, slower start up ;-)
22:43.48mallumbut the desktop is kind of stuck using just xlib
22:44.17mallumI have some ideas of things to do but I need a toolkit to do that
22:44.20koen|tvwhat happened to xcb btw?
22:44.33mallumits still there
22:44.50koen|tvstill being "not yet ready"?
22:45.10mallumI think it has a xlib compatability layer is there but most of the extensions are not covered
22:45.35koen|tvwhat kind of cool things were you thinking about?
22:45.56mallumwell a better way of scrolling for a start
22:46.35koen|tvmallum: your mb demo page with swf is cool
22:46.57mallumthanks, I need to make some more of new mb
22:46.59koen|tvxdamagevnc worked on my ipaq :)
22:47.05koen|tvand shorter ones
22:47.24mallum:)
22:48.02koen|tvthe vnc makes it look slow btw
22:48.10mallumyeah I know
22:48.43mallumI dunno what to do about that
22:49.29mallumIm guessing judging from posts on p.g.o , someone will hack a damage->swf converter soon avoiding vnc
22:49.35mallumthat should work much better
22:50.05koen|tvor use the xvidcap replacement from the e people
22:50.15mallumyou have a url for that ?
22:51.31koen|tv'enthrall' in e cvs
22:51.49koen|tvaccording to my email archive of e-devel
22:55.24mallumhmm seems a bit crappy
22:55.35mallumstill needs mencoder
22:55.46mallumand dont use damamge
22:56.58koen|tvI guess you have to wait for the damage->swf thing
22:57.54mallumyeah
22:58.00mallumI would like to hack it myself
22:58.14mallumbut feel someone may beat me to it ;)
22:59.25pigeonhmm
23:00.37koenpigeon: what's the matter?
23:00.48pigeonnothing, hi koen and mallum!
23:00.55koenhi pigeon
23:00.57mallumhey mr pigeon
23:01.06pigeonjust got my attention when you guys talk about swf
23:02.59mallumpigeon, have you played with libming at all ?
23:03.15pigeonno... only swfdec a little bit.
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23:09.13koen'night all
23:09.33koenmallum: if ross has problems with the h5550, let me know
23:09.48mallumkoen|sleep, thanks, g'night
23:12.34pigeonnite koen
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23:16.35pb_hi pigeon
23:21.19pigeonyo pb_!
23:21.44pb_pigeon: heh, just booked a trip to linux.conf.au in April
23:21.52pigeon:O
23:22.16pigeonwe're trying to convince our boss to bring the whole company to go.
23:22.35pb_very good :-)
23:22.47pigeon(we have 8 developers including the boss)
23:23.42mallumpb_, cool :)
23:23.53pigeonanyway, we will have a few going, considering one of us might be one of the organizers.
23:24.08pigeonand so i'll definitely go too somehow.
23:25.09pb_mallum: will you be there as well?
23:25.14pb_pigeon: excellent
23:26.06mallumpb_, no, I dont think I could handle the flish to oz :/
23:26.14mallums/flish/flight/
23:26.15mallumheh
23:26.25pigeonhehehe
23:26.27pb_yah, it does sound like a bit of an ordeal
23:26.36mallumyeah I really dont like flying
23:30.01pigeonmallum: at least, wait when it's at sydney or brisbane
23:30.01mallumpigeon, yeah  would like to go to .au one day
23:30.01mallumpigeon, by boat or something ;)
23:30.01pb_hehe
23:30.11pigeonwee... boat...
23:30.14mallumgonna sleep now, g'night all
23:30.20pigeonnite mallum
23:30.27pigeonops
23:30.31pb_too slow
23:32.20pigeon:(
23:34.08pb_pigeon: I think I'll spend the week before LCA in Sydney or somewhere like that.  doesn't really seem worth visiting australia for only one week.
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