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| 08:10.15 | florian | morning |
| 08:12.07 | mallum | hey florian |
| 08:18.37 | florian | hi mallum |
| 09:03.02 | mallum | florian: are you there ? |
| 09:05.35 | florian | mallum: shure :-) |
| 09:05.41 | florian | s/shure/sure |
| 09:07.06 | mallum | florian: I need to try and figure out this minisys crash |
| 09:07.27 | florian | mallum: with success? |
| 09:07.35 | mallum | florian: it appears its atom usage is somehow clashing with something in GPE as it works ok without gpe installed |
| 09:07.40 | mallum | florian: its a real odd one |
| 09:08.16 | florian | mallum: ehh.. really :-/ |
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| 09:11.04 | mallum | florian: the only other issue could be that /proc/stat is broke on both ipaq and simpad ( if its crashing there too ) |
| 09:15.13 | florian | mallum: ok, possible... hh kernels are known for problems. |
| 09:18.01 | mallum | florian: right, but it definetly happens on the simpad too ? |
| 09:19.39 | florian | mallum: I think it happend at least on the first images i built - i'll try with Nils simpad later... |
| 09:19.57 | florian | (he has my newest image installed) |
| 09:20.06 | mallum | ok |
| 09:20.24 | mallum | florian: does nils have a newton ? |
| 09:21.24 | florian | mallum: yep :-) |
| 09:23.54 | mallum | florian: oooh, I have to get him to bring it along to next get togeather |
| 09:24.52 | florian | mallum: yep, really cool devices these newtons...! |
| 10:16.40 | mallum | florian: hmm, can you think of a sensable category .desktop string for entrys that go at the bottom of mbmenu ? |
| 10:20.09 | florian | mallum: hmm... "StayOnBottom"? |
| 10:23.33 | moray | mallum: I'd suggest looking what GNOME/KDE do...? |
| 10:24.00 | mallum | moray: yeah I did, the buttons are hardcoded in |
| 10:24.32 | moray | mallum: although possibly that's not stupid - otherwise won't the GNOME menu, e.g. show up the matchbox 'log out' thing just because it's installed on the machine? :/ |
| 10:26.36 | mallum | moray: sorry, I dont follow ? |
| 10:27.06 | mallum | hmm, Im suddenly getting a few mails re running GPE on the zaurus |
| 10:28.02 | mallum | on slashdot, but most cool -> http://www.xenarc.com/product/cp1000.html |
| 10:28.13 | mallum | pity I dont have a car |
| 10:30.51 | moray | mallum: every environment / window manager provides log out (e.g.) as a .desktop file, a system with several installed will have lots of log out icons |
| 10:30.56 | moray | s/every/if every/ |
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| 10:33.40 | mallum | moray: right, but .desktop files can have a 'onlyshowin=Gnome/KDE etc' type key |
| 10:35.13 | moray | mallum: ah right, that sounds like it's designed for this sort of thing - surprising if GNOME etc. aren't using it here then |
| 10:35.43 | mallum | also gnome/kde have 'proper' session managers so Id expect the logout on both from either |
| 10:35.52 | mallum | to work |
| 10:40.26 | mallum | I dunno if theres much need for a 'proper' session manager in gpe though |
| 10:43.26 | moray | certainly on the actual 'session management' level I doubt people expect/want applications to pop up again if they restart the environment - given that we of course won't crash / require reboots, and the applications should be very easy to get into... |
| 10:45.21 | mallum | right |
| 10:45.32 | mallum | apart from the panel apps |
| 10:46.32 | mallum | and I should get the panel to 'remember' its size and position as well as the apps its parented |
| 11:09.13 | mallum | florian: ok if gpe-logout and gpe-lockscreen include .desktop file with 'AppLauncherBottom' in there categorys keys, they'll end up at the bottom of mbmenu |
| 11:18.47 | moray | mallum: a more generic name might be preferable, since future interfaces won't necessarily put them at the bottom of a single "applauncher" menu? |
| 11:19.10 | moray | (although it would be fairly easy to change later obviously) |
| 11:25.02 | mallum | moray: feel free to suggest something better ... before I commit |
| 11:27.22 | mallum | moray: how about RootAction ? |
| 11:28.44 | moray | I'd rather just 'SpecialAction' or something since Root might suggest the wrong thing; I'm not sure what things might be added to the category though |
| 11:29.21 | moray | I suppose you could just have them in a SessionManagement category or something for now, since you could add a more general one later if needed |
| 11:29.35 | moray | (though that might still be confusing, dunno) |
| 11:31.00 | mallum | yeah but the desktop button goes there too |
| 11:31.28 | mallum | I guess they could just be 'Action' |
| 11:47.41 | florian | mallum: Nice :-) |
| 11:48.51 | mallum | everyone happy with 'Action' ? |
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| 11:55.30 | florian | re |
| 13:05.48 | grib | hey mallum. what's the current state of the art for cross-development? how do you personally do your ipaq compiles? |
| 13:11.32 | mallum | grib: natively on an ARM CATS desktop machine |
| 13:11.39 | mallum | grib: running debian unstable |
| 13:12.38 | mallum | grib: if I need to compile something big, like X , I use openzaurus buildroot to do a x-compile |
| 13:23.10 | grib | mallum: ok thanks. |
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| 15:03.07 | florian | hi pb_ |
| 15:05.12 | pb_ | hi florian |
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| 15:14.07 | pb_ | heh |
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| 15:16.45 | teleyinex | hi |
| 15:16.52 | teleyinex | exists any reader of pdfs |
| 15:16.55 | teleyinex | for gpe? |
| 15:20.28 | pb_ | not afaik. you could use xpdf in a pinch. |
| 15:21.23 | mallum_ | there is the new gpdf thing too, which is a gtk2 front end to xpdf |
| 15:21.58 | teleyinex | but |
| 15:22.10 | teleyinex | can i fit the pdf to screen like in my ppc |
| 15:22.19 | teleyinex | cause i cant i dont want to change my os |
| 15:22.27 | teleyinex | cause i use this all the days |
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| 15:36.32 | pierre | pb_: I'm doiing modifidation to your gpe-nmf so that it uses scandir instead of readdir.. |
| 15:36.39 | pb_ | pierre: great! |
| 15:36.52 | pierre | pb: scandir can sort the files. |
| 15:37.01 | pierre | its a lot better.. |
| 15:37.07 | pb_ | right |
| 15:37.11 | pierre | for live albums :/ |
| 15:37.21 | pierre | shall I send you a patch? |
| 15:38.40 | pb_ | please do. |
| 15:38.50 | pierre | ok.. |
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| 15:48.26 | florian | bbl |
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| 16:29.05 | pierre | pb_: argh! gpe-nmf fails to initialise.. |
| 16:29.20 | pierre | pb_: is the cvs version good? |
| 16:29.32 | pb_ | should be. |
| 16:29.35 | pb_ | lunchtime now, bbl |
| 16:29.42 | pierre | pb_: I think it is my crosscompile environment |
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| 16:57.54 | elderdays | hello |
| 17:03.26 | elderdays | hello |
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| 17:31.47 | pb_ | re |
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| 17:43.45 | elderdays | hello |
| 17:44.25 | elderdays | has anyone been able to get something like snort to work on an ipaq? |
| 17:44.46 | mallum_ | elderdays: no reason why it wouldn't work |
| 17:45.50 | elderdays | i'm pretty new to this stuff, i just would compile it for a different arch type than usual right? |
| 17:47.07 | elderdays | oh yea, also, is there a certain file size limit on wallpapers for the newest stable gpe |
| 17:49.00 | mallum_ | elderdays: just grab a binary of it from debian arm unstable |
| 17:49.09 | mallum_ | elderdays: how do you mean size limit ? |
| 17:50.22 | elderdays | mallum_: i tried a jpeg for my wallpaper of about 125kb and it didn't work, so i made a smaller one about 40k and it did work |
| 17:50.45 | mallum_ | elderdays: thats odd, what happened ? |
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| 17:51.20 | elderdays | mallum_: all the icons on the "desktop" disappear. I can still use the "start" button, but the icons don't show up |
| 17:51.27 | pb_ | hi paul |
| 17:51.41 | paul | hiya pb |
| 17:51.52 | elderdays | mallum_: also after that, when i hit the reset button, the icons are back, but the background is set to red |
| 17:52.27 | mallum_ | elderdays: okey sounds like something is up there, I will take a look |
| 17:53.30 | elderdays | mallum_: thanks, forgive my newbness |
| 17:54.00 | mallum_ | elderdays: np, the jpeg support is mbdesktop is pretty new and its quite possible something is borked there |
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| 18:01.03 | paul | pb_: is the 39xx sound driver now working for mic? |
| 18:01.20 | pb_ | paul: not afaik. |
| 18:01.26 | paul | ah.. ah well. |
| 18:01.34 | pb_ | h5400 works though, so it's not a pxa-generic problem. |
| 18:01.45 | pb_ | must be just an incorrect codec register setting. |
| 18:01.55 | paul | hmm.. |
| 18:02.13 | pb_ | some guy did send me updated register values, but I haven't had time to try them out yet. |
| 18:02.54 | paul | pb_: be nice to have it working :) |
| 18:03.18 | pb_ | yeah, I should look at it again. |
| 18:03.28 | pb_ | been kind of busy with h5400 lately. |
| 18:04.23 | paul | pb_: just wondering... is there any kind of GSM PCMCIA card that would allow one to make voice calls? (ie card+ipaq => mobile phone + pda in one)? |
| 18:04.58 | paul | have to get a mobile phone, but if such a card existed, it would be far more convenient. |
| 18:09.58 | pb_ | yeah, they do exist, both in PC card and sleeve form. not sure how well supported they are, though. |
| 18:10.09 | pb_ | also of course there's the O2 XDA, but linux on that is still quite immature. |
| 18:11.00 | grib | pb_: what's the O2 XDA? |
| 18:11.18 | paul | pb_: yeah, i had a GPRS card on loan a while ago, and it worked fine. but it presents itself as a modem, i'm not sure whether it could do voice. |
| 18:11.25 | elderdays | later |
| 18:11.38 | pb_ | grib: combined PDA and phone. |
| 18:11.43 | paul | grib: its a little PDA from O2 with integrated GSM. |
| 18:12.03 | paul | grib: so there is linux on XDA? neat. |
| 18:12.04 | pb_ | paul: to be honest, my preferred solution is still ipaq plus bluetooth-equipped phone. |
| 18:12.14 | paul | pb_: why? |
| 18:12.31 | pb_ | paul: well, linux on xda is work in progress. not sure how much actually works. |
| 18:12.40 | paul | pb_: thats the easier solution, yes. but you have to lug 2 things around. |
| 18:12.52 | paul | pb_: well, i'd rather get a voice capable GSM card :) |
| 18:13.14 | pb_ | paul: true enough, but ipaq+pcmcia jacket is about as large as ipaq+phone. |
| 18:13.29 | paul | pb_: but its one thing. |
| 18:13.42 | paul | not two. |
| 18:15.42 | paul | pb_: anyway, if you hear of a card with such capabilities let me know. |
| 18:15.47 | pb_ | will do |
| 18:16.12 | paul | pb_: i've seen the XDA in use (with wince) and it is /neat/ to have dual-use pda+phone. |
| 18:16.52 | paul | only downside to ipaq would be location of mic. |
| 18:17.07 | paul | (and no external mic input either). |
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| 18:19.41 | josiah | greets all |
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| 19:01.13 | reenoo | hi |
| 19:01.18 | pb_ | hi reenoo |
| 19:02.17 | reenoo | hey pb_ |
| 19:03.28 | mallum | hey reenoo |
| 19:08.39 | reenoo | hi mallum |
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| 19:29.02 | mallum | reenoo: I added some alternate vfolders to matchbox cvs for more sane folder structures for desktop machines btw |
| 19:29.19 | reenoo | oh neat |
| 19:29.49 | reenoo | seems like it's time to make a CVS ebuild for matchbox:) |
| 19:34.52 | josiah | reenoo: that would be a nice improvement |
| 19:36.41 | reenoo | yeah |
| 19:36.48 | mallum | reenoo: LCDproc ? |
| 19:36.59 | reenoo | http://lcdproc.org |
| 19:37.26 | mallum | reenoo: CVS is quite stable at the moment, it has some nice stuff like experimental pango / gconf and getext support |
| 19:38.18 | reenoo | sounds spiffy |
| 19:38.52 | reenoo | josiah: using LCDproc? |
| 19:39.46 | mallum_ | reenoo: you can run X on them little LCD's ? |
| 19:39.54 | josiah | plan to on my system im building |
| 19:40.14 | reenoo | mallum_: heh no |
| 19:40.23 | mallum_ | josiah: can you run a framebuffer device on them ? |
| 19:40.58 | reenoo | mallum_: driver as in display emulator that outputs to X/framebuffer |
| 19:41.27 | mallum_ | reenoo: ah right, and you wanna make it output to sdl ? |
| 19:41.36 | reenoo | mallum_: right |
| 19:41.59 | reenoo | mallum_: you can however run a framebuffer on an LCD |
| 19:42.11 | mallum_ | reenoo: right, you could run X then |
| 19:42.23 | reenoo | doh |
| 19:42.25 | reenoo | yeah |
| 19:42.28 | reenoo | ;) |
| 19:44.05 | reenoo | you would need a fully graphical LCD though (or a character based one that doesn't have space between cells and allows defining custom character, but that would be sloooow) |
| 19:44.16 | mallum_ | hehe |
| 19:47.21 | reenoo | so far SDL seems way more suitable for the job than gtk did =) |
| 19:54.50 | mallum_ | reenoo: gtk1.2 ? |
| 19:55.15 | reenoo | gtk2 |
| 19:56.13 | mallum_ | odd |
| 19:56.51 | reenoo | I'm not an expert in graphical programming though ;) |
| 19:58.16 | reenoo | I mostly fixed the multithreading stuff |
| 20:02.59 | reenoo | I couldn't figure out what caused the segfaults deep inside the freetype library |
| 20:03.17 | grib | reenoo: you can make GTK a lot easier by using a more reasonable language than C. python, for example, makes gtk2 programming much, much saner. Also, in any language, there are few applications that won't be cleaned up and made better by use of libglade |
| 20:04.31 | reenoo | grib: anything else but C is not an option... I'm not going to rewrite LCDd |
| 20:05.25 | grib | reenoo: of course that's your choice. but lots of languages let you interface to C libraries, including python. so no need to rewrite working code. |
| 20:05.29 | mallum_ | grib: I have a patch for libglade that drops the libxml depencie if your interested |
| 20:06.00 | grib | mallum_: drops it in favor of what? |
| 20:06.04 | reenoo | grib: and libglade is overkill if you just want a bunch of drawing areas you can fill with characters/graphics |
| 20:06.34 | mallum_ | grib: the glib internal xml parser |
| 20:06.50 | grib | reenoo: ok, just trying to help. good luck fixing your problems. |
| 20:07.21 | reenoo | grib: I'm familiar with python and embedding C code into python though |
| 20:08.09 | reenoo | s/code/libs/... you get the idea ;) |
| 20:08.31 | grib | mallum_: hm, interesting. makes sense.. seems like everybody and their dog reimplements xml parsing (badly) so removing one parser is a good step :) |
| 20:09.51 | reenoo | <quote>somebody said XML was a hammer. now everyone seems to be looking for nail like objects...</quote> |
| 20:15.56 | grib | it's useful but not panacea. people who take either extreme have axes to grind and should be ignored. |
| 20:19.25 | reenoo | agreed |
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| 20:30.00 | josiah | brb, going back to my apartment |
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| 23:24.06 | zoot | hola |
| 23:24.19 | zoot | anybody around? |
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| 23:25.54 | zoot | hey |
| 23:27.13 | zoot | i did some hacking with gtkhtml, and its a mixed bag. |
| 23:31.57 | mallum | zoot: hi |
| 23:34.33 | zoot | has anybody else tried using gtkhtml by any chance? |
| 23:35.11 | zoot | i think i have stripped most of the gnome dependancies off, mostly it was superficial stuff |
| 23:35.32 | zoot | but it does use libart :/ |
| 23:37.53 | zoot | also i noticed somebody talking about dbus? is this going to be used? |
| 23:39.27 | mallum | zoot: is this gtkhtml3 ? |
| 23:39.47 | mallum | zoot: libart could be a bit of a bitch as theres loads of fp in it I think |
| 23:39.59 | zoot | yes this is gtkhml3 |
| 23:40.11 | zoot | yes about libart, |
| 23:40.20 | zoot | i'm begining to like dillo more and more :) |
| 23:40.55 | zoot | saying that gtkhtml is only using libart it for rectangular things, as far as i can see. |
| 23:41.20 | zoot | but the footprint doesn't look so good, maybe 800k without any IO or gui. |
| 23:42.11 | zoot | this is compared to dilla at 1/2 that with everything |
| 23:42.45 | zoot | the next version of dill /might/ be componentizable too, but still no sign of gtk2 :( |
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| 23:44.16 | mallum | zoot: right, what sort of rendering capabilitys does gtkhtml3 have ? |
| 23:44.37 | zoot | pretty good on the whole, it think it lags behind dillo a bit, but it has editing too. |
| 23:45.13 | zoot | it lacks whatever evolution doesn't need. |
| 23:45.41 | mallum | does it do css, javascript ? |
| 23:46.24 | zoot | definately not javascript |
| 23:46.36 | zoot | i don't think it does css either, but not sure. |
| 23:46.46 | zoot | at least not in the code i was looking at. |
| 23:46.49 | mallum | dillo dev is so slow :/ |
| 23:47.07 | mallum | there is some gnome css parsing lib now too, maybe the dillo devs will use that |
| 23:47.14 | zoot | the dillo developers have a wierd ethic going on. |
| 23:47.21 | zoot | they scare me. |
| 23:47.39 | mallum | hehe |
| 23:48.11 | zoot | i think they are trying to be everything mozilla is not, and i want dillo to be everything that mozilla is, just with a small footprint. |
| 23:48.38 | zoot | they were actually making arguments against porting to Gtk2. |
| 23:49.08 | mallum | yeah right |
| 23:50.03 | mallum | minimo is beginning to get interesting |
| 23:50.09 | zoot | but the dillo browser is already a fairly tight widget, it just needs to be in a library. |
| 23:50.12 | mallum | feasable on new sharp c7xx's |
| 23:50.29 | zoot | well for people with 48mb of flash and 64mo of memory maybe. |
| 23:50.51 | zoot | i think a web browser deserves maybe a meg, maybe 1.2 |
| 23:52.57 | mallum | zoot: have you seen opera on phones ? |
| 23:53.05 | zoot | yes, its very nice. |
| 23:53.13 | zoot | but hey. |
| 23:53.44 | mallum | thats what dillo should do, rendering big pages on a small 320x240 display always feels awkward |
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| 23:54.24 | zoot | yes, i used to have a perl-proxy somwhere that made a vain attempt at re-rendering things for a smaller display, |
| 23:54.30 | zoot | it was better, at least |
| 23:55.54 | zoot | it would be nice if dillo just did dynamic font scaling at run time. |
| 23:58.11 | mallum | minimo takes a day to compile :/ |
| 23:58.51 | zoot | its just a different style of code, |
| 23:59.24 | zoot | i guess opera has a pattern-based coding approach which is probably totally unsustainable in an open source world. |
| 23:59.50 | zoot | they probably have functioning top down design too. |