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| 11:01.25 | florian | hello! |
| 11:05.33 | cmarqu | Hi florian |
| 11:06.00 | cmarqu | florian: Did you find out about that touchscreen problem you had? I seem to get it too. |
| 11:06.18 | cmarqu | gpe-login comes up sideways, ts doesn't react. |
| 11:09.06 | florian | cmarqu: which kernel do you run? i installed -hh9 from 2.4.19 feed, this seems to fix the ts problems. |
| 11:09.38 | *** join/#gpe mallum (~mallum@pc-80-193-218-21-hw.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 11:10.26 | florian | mallum: hi mallum! |
| 11:10.32 | cmarqu | florian: This is hh9 as well. I got pre8 and upgraded to unstable. Reboot -> problem. |
| 11:10.51 | mallum | florian: hello sir |
| 11:11.11 | cmarqu | Maybe I should reflash again and pull in new stuff one by one. |
| 11:11.13 | cmarqu | Hi mallum |
| 11:11.46 | mallum | hey cmarqu |
| 11:11.56 | florian | cmarqu: very strange... maybe a hardware specific issue, which model do you have? |
| 11:12.01 | cmarqu | Ah, hmm, the new ipkg now pulls even more packages. |
| 11:12.07 | cmarqu | florian: 3635 |
| 11:12.09 | florian | mallum: sir?!?! ;-) |
| 11:12.32 | cmarqu | Ah, it's getting a new kernel: hh9-2 |
| 11:14.42 | florian | cmarqu: i could try what happens on other 36xx, there are two 36xx at kc i could reflash :-) |
| 11:15.18 | cmarqu | depmod: *** Unresolved symbols in /lib/modules/2.4.19-rmk6-pxa1-hh9/pcmcia/prism2_cs.o |
| 11:15.20 | cmarqu | depmod: register_pccard_driver |
| 11:15.23 | cmarqu | Argh. |
| 11:15.26 | cmarqu | depmod: unregister_pccard_driver |
| 11:15.28 | cmarqu | depmod: CardServices |
| 11:15.57 | cmarqu | florian: Well, let me reboot first and see if the new kernel is okay. |
| 11:16.17 | florian | cmarqu: yep |
| 11:17.37 | cmarqu | florian: Ah, it's fixed now woth the new kernel. Good. |
| 11:19.15 | florian | ah, great! |
| 11:19.19 | PaxAnima | morning |
| 11:19.29 | florian | PaxAnima: helloo |
| 11:19.59 | *** join/#gpe cian (~cian@reed.mle.ie) |
| 11:20.03 | PaxAnima | helloo, florian |
| 11:21.04 | cmarqu | Cool, I have an ogg player in iPAQ format again. |
| 11:21.11 | cmarqu | Hi PaxAnima |
| 11:21.19 | PaxAnima | hi, cmarqu.. what ogg player? |
| 11:21.27 | cmarqu | PaxAnima: gpe-nmf :) |
| 11:21.49 | PaxAnima | ah ;) |
| 11:21.58 | cian | Do you know how easy/hard it ease to use gstreamer modules with gpe-nmf? |
| 11:24.29 | cmarqu | cian: I would hope that if you install another gstreamer module, it registers correctly with gstreamer, and then gpe-nmf would just be using it. |
| 11:25.10 | cmarqu | It might be a problem to input a URL, if you are thinking about audio streaming or some such. |
| 11:31.32 | cian | Yeah that was my hope |
| 11:31.44 | cian | Wanted to start messing around with various forms of streaming |
| 11:32.28 | cian | why the URL trickyness though? |
| 11:36.41 | cmarqu | Well, it just has a file selector dialog for now. |
| 11:36.56 | cmarqu | It could well be extended. |
| 11:38.33 | florian | i just created a new gpe-conf ipk, but i can't test it :-( |
| 11:39.03 | cmarqu | Why? |
| 11:39.09 | cmarqu | Want me to try it? |
| 11:40.58 | florian | my package management is completely broken... i think i'll reflash my ipaq now |
| 11:41.40 | drkness | florian: kinda face the same problems wondering if ipkg has some issues |
| 11:42.35 | florian | drkness: it has, i think some are fixed now, but i did many tests with ipkg here... |
| 11:43.27 | florian | cmarqu: http://handhelds.org/~florian/gpe-conf2_0.0.9-4_arm.ipk |
| 11:48.08 | cmarqu | florian: Seems to work. I'm just looking at the new card config. |
| 11:48.15 | cian | yeah ipkg just started seg faulting on me :( |
| 11:48.57 | cian | problems go away when I remove the base file from /usr/lib/ipkg/lists |
| 11:48.59 | florian | cmarqu: yep, this is the most intresting part - especially that i could have missed to add some necessary icons |
| 11:49.15 | cmarqu | florian: No, they seem to be there. |
| 11:51.05 | florian | cmarqu: very good... btw. time setup should now only allow "get time from network" if there is a network up at all :-) |
| 11:51.57 | cmarqu | florian: Hmm, that crashed on me. Might have been the OOM killer though. |
| 11:52.43 | cmarqu | florian: BTW, do you have that "pick driver" feature in that package? |
| 11:53.13 | florian | cmarqu: eh.. this is not good :-/ |
| 11:53.20 | florian | cmarqu: yep :-) |
| 11:54.58 | cmarqu | It probably was OOM, gotta reboot. |
| 11:57.16 | cmarqu | florian: Does it write a /etc/pcmcia/foo.conf file? |
| 12:03.20 | florian | cmarqu: no, imaybe in future, but at the moment i change config |
| 12:04.52 | cmarqu | florian: The picking works, but the icon doesn't update. |
| 12:06.16 | florian | cmarqu: with what kind of card did you try? maybe there is no icon for that type... |
| 12:07.44 | florian | how is the bootloader reflash tool used? |
| 12:21.08 | cmarqu | florian: http://handhelds.org/scap/port.20665.png |
| 12:21.40 | cmarqu | Did you figure out the reflashing? |
| 12:22.50 | florian | no, not really... i don't know what it needs on the cf card and not how flashing is triggered |
| 12:24.09 | florian | this really seems to be a bug |
| 12:24.32 | cmarqu | florian: http://handhelds.org/~pb/install-cf.html |
| 12:24.49 | cmarqu | http://handhelds.org/~pb/README.reflash |
| 12:26.12 | florian | ahhh, thanks |
| 12:30.56 | florian | wee... this is cool! |
| 12:41.10 | *** join/#gpe dan_t (~dan_t@212-41-206-101.adsl.galactica.it) |
| 12:41.27 | dan_t | hello |
| 12:43.12 | florian | dan_t: hello |
| 12:46.49 | cmarqu | florian: BTW: http://handhelds.org/scap/port.18191.png |
| 12:47.38 | BBrox | Am I the only one to find the keyboard the most ugly UI part of the screenshot ? |
| 12:47.53 | spung | quite |
| 12:48.08 | cmarqu | BBrox: Yeah, it somehow changed fonts a while ago.. |
| 12:48.13 | cmarqu | Gotta ask mallum |
| 12:48.50 | spung | florian: we need a gpe-conf app to select xkbd color, font, button shape, etc.. :) |
| 12:49.11 | cmarqu | florian: I would also swap the dialog widgets. Card Id on top, driver selection below |
| 12:49.58 | florian | spung: afaik is this part of the keyboard definition files, or not? |
| 12:50.25 | florian | cmarqu: i'l look at it... just a few minutes |
| 12:50.27 | florian | brb |
| 12:50.44 | spung | florian: it is, you should try to convince mallum and split layout and preferences in the config file :) |
| 12:50.49 | cmarqu | florian: mallum could probably read it from a config file. He wants to work on xkbd soon AFAIK. |
| 12:50.51 | spung | florian: i tried |
| 13:13.38 | drkness | beaking news: J2ME ported to iPAQ |
| 13:14.10 | drkness | works pretty much the same as desktopn... |
| 13:14.23 | drkness | have to test the AWT features yet |
| 13:14.25 | *** part/#gpe flypiper (~mark@p252.n-nypop03.stsn.com) |
| 13:14.52 | PaxAnima | ugh.. java? |
| 13:15.02 | drkness | PaxAnima: yup |
| 13:15.12 | drkness | J2ME = jave for mobile devices |
| 13:15.45 | drkness | well PaxAnima don't worry it still needs c++ coders ;) |
| 13:15.48 | PaxAnima | I know.. have it on my mobile phone... slow as hell (but it's java, so I'm not shocked) |
| 13:16.19 | drkness | PaxAnima: from what I'm seeing on my 3900 its cool |
| 13:16.25 | drkness | need to run the other tests |
| 13:16.35 | cmarqu | nils said that there is quite some commercial interest to have it with Linux on mobile devices |
| 13:16.41 | drkness | PaxAnima: whats your mobile phone? |
| 13:16.47 | PaxAnima | drkness: Siemens S55 |
| 13:17.00 | drkness | PaxAnima: slow processor... |
| 13:17.11 | PaxAnima | with "slow" I mean response time... |
| 13:17.21 | PaxAnima | takes ages to load |
| 13:17.39 | drkness | really thats very strange |
| 13:18.10 | drkness | the responsiveness I have on iPAQ is very comparable to desktop maybe the GUI functions are slow will check |
| 13:18.18 | PaxAnima | ok |
| 13:19.27 | cmarqu | drkness: do you (personally) do embedded stuff at Sun? |
| 13:20.03 | PaxAnima | I'm not a big fan of java... think I got fed up several years ago when I found it to be _very_ slow... but I guess (hope) it has changed since then... |
| 13:20.08 | drkness | cmarqu: no actually far from it but well I've always liked embedded stuff |
| 13:20.25 | cmarqu | drkness: Ah, okay. |
| 13:20.57 | drkness | PaxAnima: you should want to check out the new JDKs pretty fast... but yes you're right |
| 13:22.14 | PaxAnima | maybe.. |
| 13:23.53 | PaxAnima | the good thing about java, though, is that it's very easy... and mostly due to its extremly good documentation.... unlike, say, gtk+ ;) |
| 13:24.42 | drkness | for an OO language well my personal opinion somtimes c++ looks like a hack |
| 13:24.54 | BBrox | Well, I never had much problem doing stuff with GTK+.... |
| 13:25.26 | BBrox | The reference docs are maybe a bit obscure but they are good. It's the tutorials that are lacking :-) |
| 13:26.03 | PaxAnima | BBrox: haven't had too much problem either, but the docs isn't much helpfull (most of the time) when I wonder about something |
| 13:26.06 | drkness | I've always relied on glade to do the stuff for me... I donno what I would've done without it |
| 13:27.18 | PaxAnima | never tried glade |
| 13:27.28 | cmarqu | Until I discovered devhelp, I could never find the right function. I knew parts of the function name, but not the right order, or missed parts of it. |
| 13:27.40 | PaxAnima | devhelp? |
| 13:27.46 | drkness | devhelp?? |
| 13:27.51 | cmarqu | Yes. Google for it. |
| 13:28.15 | cmarqu | Hallski|away would know much about it :) |
| 13:28.22 | florian | re |
| 13:29.01 | PaxAnima | cmarqu: found it... looks very usefull |
| 13:29.14 | drkness | hmmmn.... |
| 13:29.18 | drkness | sounds good |
| 13:29.49 | drkness | the screenshots are too good to be true |
| 13:30.11 | cmarqu | Unfortunately, Debian is still stuck with the GTK1 version. |
| 13:30.13 | florian | Anjuta is an IDE using devhelp... works quite good too :-) |
| 13:30.20 | PaxAnima | remind me of msdn |
| 13:31.05 | florian | drkness: do you have me a link to this jme port?! this sound interesting. |
| 13:31.46 | drkness | florian: need to get the graphics working yet some libraries aren't getting loaded... however simple 'hello world!' and net connection programs works |
| 13:31.57 | cmarqu | devhelp also has emacs support which is all that counts :) |
| 13:32.15 | drkness | and it takes up ~5Mb of space libraries et al |
| 13:33.03 | drkness | will let you know when its done.. but I need permission to publish it (the legal matters need to be sorted) |
| 13:40.25 | florian | drkness: yep, would be really cool - this is something may people asked about. |
| 13:40.44 | PaxAnima | cmarqu: devhelp even had vim support ;) |
| 13:40.51 | drkness | florian: yup |
| 13:41.57 | PaxAnima | _has_ vim support, that is |
| 14:01.11 | cmarqu | florian: ~ # gpe-conf time |
| 14:01.11 | cmarqu | Segmentation fault |
| 14:03.49 | florian | cmarqu: oops... |
| 14:03.52 | cmarqu | florian: strace tells me that there is a call like that before it crashes: |
| 14:03.54 | cmarqu | time(NULL) = 1049557580 |
| 14:07.43 | florian | and i found a bug in current familiar image |
| 14:13.30 | florian | the presence of wlan-ng.conf breaks support foe some wlan cards |
| 14:15.05 | cmarqu | BBL |
| 14:16.31 | florian | cmarqu: i think i found the problem with gpe-conf time, is a misuse of the time call; |
| 14:20.55 | *** join/#gpe flypiper_hdc (~winder-1@dhcp-179.crl.dec.com) |
| 14:29.51 | florian | /mnt/ramfs/tmp # ipkg install gpe-conf2_0.0.9-4_arm.ipk |
| 14:29.51 | florian | ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for gpe-conf2: |
| 14:29.51 | florian | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:29.57 | florian | :-( |
| 14:31.53 | *** join/#gpe paul_ ([dTjb8CExT@hibernia.jakma.org) |
| 14:33.54 | florian | paul_: hi! |
| 14:34.01 | paul_ | hi florian |
| 14:34.09 | *** join/#gpe pb__ (~pb@dhcp-177.crl.dec.com) |
| 14:34.44 | *** join/#gpe pb__ (~pb@dhcp-177.crl.dec.com) |
| 14:34.55 | florian | pb__: hello.. |
| 14:35.08 | pb__ | florian: afternoon |
| 14:36.06 | florian | pb__: one bug in the new image: remove /etc/pcmcia/wlan-ng.conf |
| 14:37.57 | florian | something is very strange... gpe-conf behaves like having two different versions installed! |
| 14:42.13 | florian | new card config, but old starage info... |
| 14:45.53 | florian | ough no! ipkg installed the wrong kernel binary package! :-( |
| 14:57.17 | pb__ | florian: argh! |
| 14:58.37 | florian | pb__: just did following: flash current image, added unstable+2.4.19 feed, ipkg update, ipkg upgrade |
| 14:59.09 | florian | then i saw it didn't update the kernel package, ipkg install kernel... |
| 15:04.07 | florian | is there a single package containing all relevant modules for a specific kernel? |
| 15:05.10 | pb__ | no, the modules are all split up in numerous packages. |
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| 15:11.55 | cian | anyone here split their root filesystem across ipaq memory and microdrive, or even all on the microdrive? |
| 15:14.44 | florian | you should be able to boot from a microdrive... maybe look at these dualboot howtos |
| 15:15.51 | cian | sorry, a bit new to this, are they on handhelds.org? |
| 15:17.37 | florian | yes, i think at least one, i think there is a wiki too. but i'm not shure where exaxtly |
| 15:20.29 | pb__ | ibot, dual boot? |
| 15:20.30 | | extra, extra, read all about it, dual boot is two operating systems on one computer, each contained on their own partition, see http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/BootingLinuxFromCF or http://linux.blacknet.de/ipaq/ |
| 15:21.23 | florian | i like this guy ;-) |
| 15:25.51 | florian | where is that asic module in? |
| 15:26.56 | cian | ibot, weather |
| 15:27.08 | cian | oh well :) |
| 15:27.31 | florian | maybe so: |
| 15:27.36 | florian | ibot, weather? |
| 15:27.37 | | extra, extra, read all about it, weather is pretty |
| 15:28.05 | florian | well... more or less |
| 15:28.09 | PaxAnima | ibot: not it's not! it's snowing... |
| 15:28.09 | | PaxAnima: bugger all, i dunno |
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| 15:42.51 | *** join/#gpe pb__ (~pb@dhcp-r37.crl.dec.com) |
| 15:44.31 | *** join/#gpe pb__ (~pb@dhcp-r37.crl.dec.com) |
| 15:44.35 | pb__ | :-/ |
| 15:49.16 | florian | cu |
| 17:00.30 | pb__ | ibot, seen asuffield? |
| 17:00.30 | | i haven't seen 'asuffield', pb__ |
| 17:43.40 | *** join/#gpe dneuer (Chris@wv-morgantown7aa-26.mgtnwv.adelphia.net) |
| 17:43.57 | dneuer | hi all |
| 17:44.58 | PaxAnima | hi, dneuer |
| 17:53.27 | pb__ | hi dave |
| 17:56.01 | dneuer | hey pb__ |
| 17:56.12 | dneuer | how goes the HDC? |
| 18:06.54 | *** join/#gpe mallum (~mallum@pc-80-193-218-21-hw.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:10.59 | PaxAnima | hey, mallum |
| 18:11.20 | mallum | hey PaxAnima |
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| 19:16.44 | *** join/#gpe dneuer (Chris@wv-morgantown7aa-26.mgtnwv.adelphia.net) |
| 19:16.48 | dneuer | hey all |
| 19:23.37 | pb__ | hi dneuer |
| 19:24.11 | dneuer | pb__: hey |
| 19:25.57 | dneuer | how's the conference going? |
| 19:26.17 | pb__ | going good. Bdale is just talking about his amateur satallite stuff. |
| 19:28.20 | dneuer | cool |
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| 22:34.13 | *** join/#gpe mallum (~mallum@pc-80-193-218-21-hw.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 22:36.35 | mallum | paul: ping |
| 22:36.44 | paul | hi mallum |
| 22:36.48 | paul | mallum: pong |
| 22:37.48 | mallum | hey paul |
| 22:37.59 | paul | how are things? |
| 22:38.15 | mallum | paul: did you mention the other day you'd been experimenting nice-ing the X server ? |
| 22:38.20 | paul | yes |
| 22:38.27 | mallum | paul: yeah good good, just has a fantastic meal |
| 22:38.48 | paul | have to carry out a test on a colleague really to have any hope of convincing jim. |
| 22:38.57 | mallum | paul: nice -10 definetly seems to make a difference for me, and I noticed that debian -10's the X server by defualt aswell |
| 22:39.11 | paul | yeah, i notice a definite difference. |
| 22:39.31 | paul | all we need to do really is root jg's machine, renice his X server and ask him if he noticed a difference later. |
| 22:39.45 | mallum | paul: and this would explain why I've always thought the schuedular in tinyX was different to my laptops |
| 22:40.31 | paul | mallum: i've been doing that on my desktops for quite a while. plus 2.5 recently got a hack to give apps with certain kinds of behaviour (ie X) a scheduling bonus. |
| 22:40.40 | paul | mallum: :) |
| 22:40.48 | paul | mallum: its just the linux scheduler really. |
| 22:40.56 | mallum | paul: yeah I was reading about that a while back on kerneltrap |
| 22:41.57 | mallum | paul: one sec I can run a quick basic benchmark on my c700 |
| 22:42.13 | paul | mallum: X cant do much if linux wont run it really.. :( |
| 22:42.33 | paul | mallum: benchmarks mightnt show it - its more a latency really. |
| 22:42.44 | mallum | yeah |
| 22:43.06 | paul | mallum: basically i think it might be an idea to do the same thing in familiar in /etc/X11/Xserver. |
| 22:43.12 | paul | mallum: just need to convince jg |
| 22:44.47 | mallum | paul: roughly I get a 5-10% speed increase in xengine |
| 22:44.54 | paul | aha |
| 22:45.08 | mallum | and thats non interactive |
| 22:45.25 | mallum | it just paints an animation of an engine and gives you the fps |
| 22:45.35 | paul | mallum: try running an app in the background somewhere (non X) that takes up cycles. that should really show it. |
| 22:46.37 | mallum | paul: did jg give any reasons for not doing it ? |
| 22:47.24 | paul | mallum: no. but he isnt against it per se. he just wants the proof first, the 'due diligence' neccessary to show it is a valid change. |
| 22:47.49 | paul | his suggestion was a double blind test (or some test along those lines). |
| 22:49.32 | paul | mallum: however, if benchmarks can show empirically that, at least, throughput is improved. then perhaps he'd be amienable to the change even without the other test. |
| 23:05.11 | mallum | paul: btw does familiar have nice or just renice ? |
| 23:05.22 | mallum | ( sorry no ipaq working close to me at the moment ) |
| 23:07.18 | paul | i'm presuming that script is part of familiar?? (or is familiar just a 'virtual' dist and the reality is that gpe and opie are the 'real' dists? i note the familiar cvs module doesnt have much in it and that the Xservers script sits in the gpe cvs module :) ) |
| 23:08.34 | mallum | well busybox comes with just renice and not nice, so I guess fam would prolly only have renice |
| 23:08.47 | paul | ah. |
| 23:08.51 | __moray | paul: while there's been the intention to force source upgrades for familiar packages, it's never happend |
| 23:08.59 | paul | eek. no nice. |
| 23:09.05 | __moray | paul: you mostly have to email the package maintainer etc. |
| 23:09.41 | paul | yeah.. |
| 23:10.12 | paul | moray: familiar isnt a dist in its own right really, is it? its the sum of opie/gpe packages that are not gpe/opie specific? |
| 23:10.23 | paul | mallum: we'll need nice. |
| 23:10.30 | paul | mallum: can busybox provide it? |
| 23:11.44 | mallum | paul: well you can do it ok with renice - renice -10 $(pidof X) |
| 23:12.17 | paul | guess so. |
| 23:12.35 | paul | so just add that to the bottom of /etc/X11/Xserver |
| 23:12.59 | mallum | yeah |
