| 00:00.20 | moray | mallum: aha, that's the one I thought before pb_'s misinformation ;) |
| 00:00.25 | pb_ | oops |
| 00:04.01 | *** join/#gpe prk (prk@213.254.90.167) |
| 00:04.27 | prk | hi! |
| 00:06.12 | prk | nobody here? |
| 00:07.34 | mallum | pb_: I just built and executed successfully gnu hello with my uber-toolchain |
| 00:07.41 | pb_ | mallum: wahey! |
| 00:07.50 | mallum | pb_: next step X windows :-) |
| 00:08.32 | pb_ | mallum: I just got debian installed on my ibook; upgrading it to unstable now. |
| 00:09.35 | prk | oh, here are you! :) |
| 00:10.16 | pb_ | hi prk |
| 00:10.59 | prk | I supose that some of you are developing gpe! |
| 00:11.09 | pb_ | indeed :-) |
| 00:12.10 | moray | though not as many at this *precise* moment as sometimes ;) |
| 00:12.15 | prk | Some weeks ago I was wondering why nobody did it early |
| 00:13.28 | prk | and i was thinking how great would be now that gnome is becoming a "real" standard and user friendly desktop |
| 00:15.32 | prk | I have heard about it right a few minutes ago |
| 00:16.44 | mallum | pb_: oh cool, you got it then ! |
| 00:16.52 | pb_ | mallum: yeah, it arrived this morning. |
| 00:17.06 | mallum | pb_: how has the install been so far ? |
| 00:17.17 | pb_ | mallum: reasonably painless actually |
| 00:17.37 | pb_ | mallum: the disk partitioning business was a bit of a pain, but other than that it's been ok. |
| 00:17.43 | mallum | pb_: oh thats good |
| 00:17.59 | prk | and i have some questions about it |
| 00:18.13 | mallum | pb_: I swear my drive is about ot fail ... |
| 00:18.20 | pb_ | prk: go ahead |
| 00:18.23 | pb_ | mallum: :-/ |
| 00:18.51 | prk | what platform are you using to develop (I supose the ipak under familiar...) |
| 00:18.58 | mallum | pb_: I think Id better run my backup script ... |
| 00:19.07 | pb_ | prk: that's right. |
| 00:19.21 | pb_ | prk: a few people are interesting in running GPE on the Zaurus, but I don't think that effort has progressed very far yet. |
| 00:20.30 | mallum | pb_: is it -z combreloc I pass to libs to enable them for prelinking ? |
| 00:20.33 | prk | I'm trying to continue the port of linux to nec vr devices, specially for the cassiopeia e-105 as i have hoe |
| 00:22.09 | prk | I have compiled it and make some modifications to the drivers, and i hope to have a usable kernel in some time |
| 00:22.33 | pb_ | mallum: yep |
| 00:22.33 | mallum | pb_: do you think theres a good chance this toolchain will support it ? |
| 00:22.34 | pb_ | mallum: should do |
| 00:22.34 | pb_ | mallum: it's been in binutils for a while |
| 00:24.23 | prk | Are you using X as the graphics backend? |
| 00:24.42 | pb_ | Yes. |
| 00:24.51 | pb_ | plus the GTK toolkit, obviously. |
| 00:25.21 | prk | and how fast is in your devices? |
| 00:25.48 | pb_ | It's pretty fast on the ipaq, but that has a 200MIPS cpu. I guess the E105 doesn't quite have the same performance. |
| 00:26.27 | prk | MIPS 130Mhz whithout float point unit |
| 00:27.07 | prk | and how much memory you need |
| 00:27.50 | pb_ | the smallest ipaq has 16MB RAM + 16MB flash. |
| 00:28.07 | pb_ | most people have at least 32MB RAM. |
| 00:29.34 | prk | e-105 has 32 ram, but not flash rom |
| 00:29.40 | pb_ | GPE will run in the 16+16 units, just about, but it's tight. |
| 00:30.15 | prk | why use the X backend and not a framebuffer? |
| 00:30.44 | prk | It would be faster? |
| 00:30.56 | moray | prk: some people are very attached to X ;) |
| 00:31.04 | prk | and less memory needs? |
| 00:32.24 | prk | Yes but I think in this case the perfomance its mor important, isn't it? |
| 00:32.41 | moray | prk: well, so far X hasn't been a barrier in either speed or memory needs |
| 00:33.01 | moray | prk: but it provides greater flexibility, including the ability to run non-GTK apps |
| 00:34.05 | prk | Well in fact it would be possible to compile the apps with gtk-framebuffer and so make me happy :) |
| 00:34.19 | pb_ | prk: sure, you can certainly do that if you want. |
| 00:34.47 | pb_ | prk: on the ipaq, performance isn't much of an issue (and the overhead from X is pretty small anyway), so it is more worthwhile for us to have the flexibility and network transparency. |
| 00:35.49 | prk | But i suposse that you are not making the gtk apps X deppendant |
| 00:35.54 | mallum | prk: for the amount of pixels on a PDA's screen, X doesn't doesn't really hurt perofrmance at all |
| 00:36.09 | moray | prk: do you know if the framebuffer GTK stuff does rotation? (the ipaq's screen is the 'wrong' way round for normal use) |
| 00:37.03 | prk | I don't know, but it shouldn't be difficult to implement |
| 00:37.36 | moray | it would certainly be interesting to try compiling stuff for fb gtk, and would let us beat the Opie guys at their own game ;) |
| 00:38.01 | prk | :) |
| 00:40.16 | mallum | bah |
| 00:40.36 | mallum | it will be no faster |
| 00:40.50 | mallum | X can push pixels just as fast as opie |
| 00:40.59 | mallum | on the ipaq |
| 00:41.13 | mallum | when we get 640x480 screens, it may not be so true |
| 00:41.23 | pb_ | true, but I do still have niggling worries about context switch overhead on the ipaq |
| 00:41.43 | prk | I have another idea about performance |
| 00:41.50 | moray | mallum: it would be interesting to compare though? even if it just lets us fix something about the X setup afterwards |
| 00:42.29 | prk | is the default gkt theme engine fast enought for those devices? |
| 00:42.42 | mallum | pb_: how do you mean ? |
| 00:43.18 | pb_ | mallum: if an application makes an X call that involves waiting for a response from the server, you have to do two context switches immediately before it can continue. |
| 00:43.54 | prk | Well I don't kwnow so much about the gtk internals, but a "flat" gtk engine would be faster or not? |
| 00:44.31 | pb_ | prk: we use a "flat" engine (mist) anyway, for aesthetic reasons. |
| 00:46.55 | mallum | pb_: is mist a pretty new addition ? |
| 00:47.15 | pb_ | mallum: new-ish I guess, we've had it for a couple of months. |
| 00:48.02 | prk | how much time is the project out? |
| 00:48.21 | prk | I have read about it today on the gnome news... |
| 00:48.22 | pb_ | prk: I guess GPE was started a bit more than a year ago. |
| 00:51.03 | prk | So you have a complete enviroment for handhelds |
| 00:51.31 | pb_ | I wouldn't say complete yet, but it's getting there. |
| 00:52.34 | prk | you have a tetris, so its complete ;) |
| 00:52.59 | moray | ha |
| 00:53.11 | moray | the major useful thing we lack (I suspect) is synchronisation |
| 00:53.16 | pb_ | yes |
| 00:53.51 | pb_ | we should try to compel someone to actually work on that. |
| 00:54.23 | prk | It would be nice to integrate it in the new gnome 2.2 desktop |
| 00:54.23 | moray | I can currently claim that I would be doing so if I had any time to do so |
| 00:54.47 | pb_ | well, at least opie doesn't really have a sync solution either. :-/ |
| 00:54.58 | moray | pb_/mallum: I've made a hotel booking now (well, sent it off) |
| 00:55.15 | mallum | ftp://people.redhat.com/mharris/patches/XFree86-4.2.0-die-ugly-pattern-die-die-die.patch ;-) |
| 00:55.22 | pb_ | moray: righto |
| 00:55.24 | mallum | moray: cool |
| 00:55.56 | prk | I would love to, but I don't have the skills and time |
| 00:56.17 | moray | mallum: hm, we could potentially do with that patch, to get rid of the oddness between splash screens during X startup |
| 00:57.04 | pb_ | yeah. I think it was reputedly already in xfree86 cvs, so we should get it next time x ipks are built. |
| 00:57.23 | moray | oh right |
| 00:59.40 | mallum | moray: yeah dont worry Im adding it |
| 00:59.53 | mallum | moray: theres actualy a switch now to do it as well |
| 01:00.23 | mallum | Im trying to find a damn prelink patch mentioned in one of mr harris's changelogs |
| 01:00.47 | pb_ | all the prelink issues are supposedly fixed in cvs also by now |
| 01:00.54 | moray | ah, ok |
| 01:00.55 | pb_ | at least, for all platforms other than i386. |
| 01:00.58 | moray | ha |
| 01:01.13 | pb_ | maybe even i386 now too, I'm not sure who won out in the end on that one. |
| 01:03.02 | prk | I've just read that the media player uses gstreamer, wow! |
| 01:03.08 | pb_ | yep. |
| 01:03.43 | mallum | pb_: yeah Im trying to figure out where I enable it |
| 01:04.01 | pb_ | mallum: prelink? shouldn't be any special action required. |
| 01:04.18 | prk | So you have a real multedia framework on your hands |
| 01:04.43 | mallum | pb_: I thought I needed to pass the -z action when it builds the xlibs ? |
| 01:05.15 | pb_ | mallum: the easiest thing to do is just patch binutils to do that automatically (in fact, the default may well be on already in the version you have). |
| 01:05.25 | pb_ | mallum: that's what debian does, and I think most other distros are the same. |
| 01:05.39 | pb_ | there's never any reason to avoid -z combreloc. |
| 01:05.45 | mallum | pb_: aha |
| 01:05.54 | mallum | pb_: is there anyway I can find out if its enabled ? |
| 01:06.12 | pb_ | do you still have the source on hand? |
| 01:06.18 | mallum | pb leme check |
| 01:06.35 | pb_ | if so, look in ld/ldmain.c, find where it sets link_info.combreloc in main() |
| 01:06.36 | mallum | pb_: yah |
| 01:06.46 | mallum | okey |
| 01:06.49 | pb_ | if it sets it to TRUE, it is enabled |
| 01:07.50 | mallum | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:07.57 | pb_ | ok, so you should be all set. |
| 01:08.32 | mallum | pb_: aha cool |
| 01:24.04 | prk | I leave, good night or day... or whatever |
| 01:24.59 | prk | thanks for all |
| 01:25.01 | prk | bye |
| 01:25.04 | moray | and I should go to bed - good night everyone |
| 01:25.30 | prk | bye again |
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| 01:36.17 | mallum | stupid X src tree |
| 01:42.09 | mallum | arg |
| 01:47.48 | mallum | jg: ping |
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| 11:00.07 | PaxAnima | morning |
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| 11:55.52 | pb_ | hi mallum |
| 11:56.22 | mallum | hey pb_ |
| 11:56.24 | mallum | finally got X to X-compile |
| 11:56.33 | mallum | but I was missing the dumb h3600_*.h headers, so I've now added them |
| 11:56.53 | mallum | and am going again |
| 11:57.46 | mallum | pb_: how is the ibook now ? |
| 11:57.54 | pb_ | mallum: had some trouble with X |
| 11:58.01 | pb_ | mallum: I gave up last night, will try again later |
| 11:58.26 | PaxAnima | hey, mallum |
| 11:58.39 | ade|desk | still on macos X or linux-ified it ? |
| 11:58.42 | mallum | pb_: yeah X is a real bitch |
| 11:58.50 | pb_ | ade|desk: linux |
| 11:59.08 | mallum | pb_: not that its X's fault more ati's for closing a load of the stuff off on the mac ati chips |
| 11:59.23 | pb_ | mallum: oh, I thought they were just regular Radeons. |
| 11:59.36 | mallum | pb_: have you got you hands on mrCoopers X debs ? |
| 11:59.43 | pb_ | mallum: nope |
| 11:59.58 | mallum | pb_: yeah but they have a little special stuff added, like apple style power management |
| 12:00.03 | mallum | pb_: one sec .. |
| 12:00.05 | pb_ | just using normal x 4.2 from unstable at the moment |
| 12:01.31 | mallum | pb_: http://people.debian.org/~daenzer/dri-trunk/ |
| 12:02.04 | pb_ | thanks |
| 12:02.42 | mallum | pb_: Im pretty sure they work without dri turned on, but its worth taking ( the little trouble ) to get it enabled |
| 12:02.56 | mallum | pb_: also do you have a recent benH kernel ? |
| 12:03.54 | pb_ | no idea. |
| 12:06.57 | mallum | pb_: okey, get it by rsync -avz --delete rsync.penguinppc.org::linux-2.4-benh benh_kernel/ |
| 12:07.22 | mallum | pb_: I havn't updated for a while and I think they could now be kept in bitkeeper |
| 12:08.12 | pb_ | ugh |
| 12:08.13 | mallum | pb_: the benh kernels are mainstream kerenls with lots of patches relevant to (t)ibooks |
| 12:08.31 | mallum | pb_: they have the magic for getting powermanagement to work etc |
| 12:08.39 | pb_ | ok, cool |
| 12:09.01 | mallum | pb_: they are considered 'experimental' but I've never ( trouch wood ) had any problems |
| 12:09.12 | mallum | pb_: I think there just like a -ac kerenl |
| 12:09.22 | ade|desk | pb_: how fo you change the dpkg interface from readline to something else .. i've broken perl :( |
| 12:09.40 | ade|desk | s/fo/do |
| 12:09.51 | pb_ | mallum: I do occasionally see bug reports from people who are getting weird behaviour with benh kernels. There was a problem recently with them creating loads of zombie processes, I think. |
| 12:10.56 | pb_ | ade|desk: it's stored in debconf itself. if you have broken debconf so it won't run, you probably need to edit config.dat manually. |
| 12:11.11 | ade|desk | ok ta |
| 12:11.11 | pb_ | ade|desk: the debconf/frontend key is the one you want. |
| 12:11.39 | mallum | pb_: yeah, on my powerpc firewall I just run a stock kernel, but on my tibook I really dont have a lot of choice to get thge sexy stuff going ( though I dont know how much benH stuff got merged into 2.4.20 ) |
| 12:12.07 | mallum | pb_: Okey I got a successful X Build, I can do it now in approx 10 mins ;-) |
| 12:12.11 | pb_ | cool |
| 12:12.55 | mallum | pb_: no I'll see if I can get jg's scripts working on it to build some test ipkgs |
| 12:13.07 | mallum | pb_: these should be -mtune'd for xscale too |
| 12:18.55 | ade|desk | finally got round to install a new hd in the indy so now have debian/unstable back it ... mips{,el} gpe will be back in business soon |
| 12:21.03 | pb_ | excellent |
| 12:21.25 | pb_ | there was a guy here last night who wanted to run gpe on a VR. |
| 12:22.05 | pb_ | mallum: cool |
| 12:22.25 | pb_ | mallum: you might like to look at some of the outstanding x bugs in bugzilla too and see if you can fix some of the easy ones. |
| 12:29.31 | mallum | pb_: okey, will do |
| 12:30.14 | pb_ | a lot of them are just adding, removing or relocating files from what I remember |
| 12:31.17 | pb_ | there's also the "release mouse device on VT switch" issue, which may not be in bugzilla, but I suspect that one is a bit harder to fix. |
| 12:33.10 | mallum | pb_: ok |
| 12:33.38 | mallum | pb_: I need to check I can actually package and run them new packages before I start fixing bugs |
| 12:35.16 | pb_ | right. |
| 12:35.58 | mallum | Im running that now |
| 12:44.13 | mallum | hmmm, it appears I need ncurses installed for the make install step to work :( |
| 12:49.01 | pb_ | suck |
| 12:52.53 | mallum | curses! |
| 12:53.12 | mallum | hmm stupid ncurses won't happily x-compile nither |
| 12:54.17 | mallum | the stupid thing knwos its being cross compiled, so why does it then build executables needed to generate headers with the x-compiler !32!%$£" |
| 12:57.55 | pb_ | can't you just use a binary ncurses distribution? |
| 12:58.29 | mallum | NO, of course not |
| 12:58.32 | mallum | thats for girls |
| 12:59.10 | pb_ | ah, of course. |
| 13:00.16 | mallum | ;-) |
| 13:05.24 | mallum | aha! bludgened it into submission |
| 13:06.36 | mallum | *sigh* now I need libpng |
| 13:09.51 | pb_ | btw, apropos of cross-compiling, I filed #177709 against pkg-config. |
| 13:10.54 | mallum | whats that ? |
| 13:18.09 | pb_ | just a general cross-compiling issue. |
| 13:18.52 | pb_ | it's the pkg-config problem that causes us to end up with stupid CFLAGS for stuff like gpe-appmgr in order to support cross builds/ |
| 13:29.18 | *** join/#gpe FlyPiper (~46-cub@168.215.193.70) |
| 13:29.23 | pb_ | hi flypiper |
| 13:29.53 | FlyPiper | pb_: Morning |
| 13:30.47 | FlyPiper | errr in your case Afternoon:) |
| 13:31.16 | pb_ | indeed :-) |
| 13:35.31 | mallum | jg is evil |
| 13:36.00 | pb_ | ! |
| 13:37.16 | mallum | he can popd his pushd up his **** |
| 13:37.24 | mallum | ;-) |
| 13:38.09 | PaxAnima | mallum: done anything more on the the dock app? |
| 13:38.33 | mallum | PaxAnima: not as yet |
| 13:38.47 | mallum | PaxAnima: I was last night, but let I decided to enter x-compile hell |
| 13:39.03 | mallum | pb_: I have some ipkgs |
| 13:39.08 | PaxAnima | mallum: oh |
| 13:39.15 | pb_ | mallum: good-o |
| 13:39.18 | mallum | pb_: want to try them MUAHAHAHAHA |
| 13:39.48 | pb_ | sure. |
| 13:40.48 | mallum | pb_: okey I guess the easiest way is for me to set up a feed |
| 13:40.58 | mallum | pb_: do you know how to do that ? |
| 13:42.08 | pb_ | just create a directory and run ipkg-make-index in it. |
| 13:44.37 | mallum | pb_: okey cool |
| 13:49.19 | mallum | pb_: have a butch at http://handhelds.org/~mallum/feed/ |
| 13:49.48 | pb_ | ok, let me install those |
| 13:49.56 | mallum | pb_: you are a brave man |
| 13:50.22 | mallum | pb_: there just the same as what we've got - but built with gcc3.2 |
| 13:50.47 | mallum | pb_: If they work, I'll package up the xcursor stuff and try and fix the missing local lib |
| 13:50.57 | pb_ | missing local lib? |
| 13:51.04 | mallum | pb_: locale |
| 13:51.06 | mallum | sorry |
| 13:51.09 | pb_ | oh :-) |
| 13:51.15 | pb_ | I think that's just a data file, not a library. |
| 13:51.22 | pb_ | or a collection of data files rather |
| 13:52.29 | mallum | yeah Im yet to figure that one out |
| 13:54.06 | pb_ | ah, you seem to have built a new libexpat. |
| 13:54.18 | pb_ | I guess that's harmless enough, but we are trying to get rid of it :-) |
| 13:55.00 | pb_ | btw, you may need to add libgcc1 to Depends for gcc3.2-compiled packages |
| 13:55.38 | PaxAnima | will gcc3.2 apps run better than with 2.95? |
| 13:57.02 | pb_ | mallum: ah, not so good |
| 13:57.04 | pb_ | gpe-login: relocation error: /usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.2: undefined symbol: XRenderQuerySubpixelOrder |
| 13:57.41 | mallum | pb_: okey I have a felling there is a newer XRender lib in the build source which jg's scripts have missed |
| 13:57.55 | pb_ | ok |
| 14:01.49 | mallum | pb_: does tinyX run ok though ? |
| 14:02.09 | pb_ | mallum: it starts up ok, can't really say much more than that without any working clients. |
| 14:02.52 | mallum | pb_: ah, I guess every thing is linking to Xrender ... |
| 14:02.57 | pb_ | yes |
| 14:03.16 | pb_ | almost everything on my ipaq is linked against libXft2 |
| 14:03.21 | mallum | ok fear not, let me give the pups some food and I'll get some more togeather |
| 14:03.33 | pb_ | righto |
| 14:12.40 | mallum | pb_: can you see if your missing libXrender.so.1.2 |
| 14:13.10 | pb_ | I only have 1.1 |
| 14:14.22 | mallum | cool ( well not cool but .... ) |
| 14:21.01 | pb_ | maybe it's time we had a packaged arm cross-toolchain in debian. |
| 14:21.11 | mallum | yes |
| 14:23.34 | pb_ | I think, due to the wonders of the toolchain-source package, that should be easy enough to manage. |
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| 14:53.25 | mallum | pb_: okey new packages uploaded |
| 14:53.36 | pb_ | mallum: ok, upgrading |
| 14:53.58 | mallum | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:53.58 | mallum | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:53.58 | mallum | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:56.14 | mallum | pb_: Im still to add the libgcc dep, gotta go some sed magic on all the control files |
| 14:56.37 | pb_ | right |
| 14:57.35 | pb_ | the Xrender problem is gone, but now xft apps don't seem to be able to find any fonts. |
| 14:57.45 | pb_ | No fonts found; this probably means that the fontconfig |
| 14:57.45 | pb_ | library is not correctly configured. You may need to |
| 14:57.45 | pb_ | edit the fonts.conf configuration file. More information |
| 14:57.45 | pb_ | about fontconfig can be found in the fontconfig(3) manual |
| 14:57.45 | pb_ | page and on http://fontconfig.org |
| 14:57.56 | pb_ | xkbd: unable to find suitable font in 'verdana-7:bold|fixed' |
| 14:57.57 | pb_ | etc |
| 14:59.22 | mallum | pb_: whats running fc-cache give you ? |
| 15:00.05 | mallum | pb_: and does /etc/fonts/fonts.conf exist ? |
| 15:02.39 | pb_ | mallum: fc-cache is not installed. |
| 15:02.49 | pb_ | mallum: yes, /etc/fonts/fonts.conf exists |
| 15:03.14 | mallum | yes I've just noticed fc-cache is missing |
| 15:04.13 | mallum | pb_: fonts.conf lists; |
| 15:04.15 | mallum | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:04.15 | mallum | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:04.15 | mallum | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:04.25 | pb_ | it does indeed. |
| 15:04.37 | mallum | and we have fonts in them directorys right ? |
| 15:04.45 | pb_ | in the first one, yes. |
| 15:05.20 | mallum | I wondering that maybe fc-cache needs to be run ... |
| 15:05.46 | mallum | of course theres no man page for fc-cache :( |
| 15:06.05 | pb_ | of course not, those are for girls. |
| 15:06.25 | mallum | hehe |
| 15:06.28 | mallum | cheeky monkey |
| 15:08.59 | *** join/#gpe prpplague (~JoeBob1@12.148.134.9) |
| 15:09.27 | mallum | I wonder if libfontconfig is trying to open something other that /etc/fonts/fonts.conf ? |
| 15:10.46 | mallum | hmms string would suggest not |
| 15:12.56 | mallum | pb_: are the perms ok on fonts.conf ? |
| 15:13.11 | pb_ | -r--r--r-- 1 root root 8647 Jan 12 01:30 /etc/fonts/fonts.conf |
| 15:13.14 | pb_ | ok-ish |
| 15:16.47 | mallum | I think the fix is fc-cache according to http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=av5chf%246nt%241%40FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3D%2522No%2Bfonts%2Bfound%253B%2Bthis%2Bprobably%2Bmeans%2Bthat%2Bthe%2Bfontconfig%2522%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3Dav5chf%25246nt%25241%2540FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw%26rnum%3D2 |
| 15:17.49 | mallum | pb_: if I copy up the fc-cache binary, could you run it ( as root ) and see if it makes any differnce ? |
| 15:18.40 | pb_ | sure |
| 15:18.45 | pb_ | might be a good idea to put it in the package anyway |
| 15:18.55 | mallum | yeah I will |
| 15:19.07 | mallum | its at http://handhelds.org/~mallum/fc-cache |
| 15:19.56 | pb_ | ok, cool, that seems to have fixed it. |
| 15:20.03 | pb_ | best run it from the postinst, I guess |
| 15:20.11 | mallum | excellent I'll add it there |
| 15:20.47 | mallum | pb_: everything else seem fine now ? |
| 15:21.26 | pb_ | xrandr doesn't work |
| 15:21.29 | pb_ | xrandr: error while loading shared libraries: libXrandr.so.2: cannot open shared object file: Error 9 |
| 15:21.36 | pb_ | most other things seem ok |
| 15:21.52 | mallum | hmm Im sure I added libXrandr.so.2 ? |
| 15:22.12 | pb_ | Is it in a new package? |
| 15:22.21 | pb_ | I just did "ipkg upgrade" |
| 15:22.52 | *** join/#gpe TheMasterMind1 (foobar@h-69-3-0-135.MCLNVA23.covad.net) |
| 15:22.53 | mallum | yeah should be |
| 15:23.15 | pb_ | ah, ok. in that case, you need to fix the depends on xbase-clients or whatever package xrandr is in. |
| 15:23.54 | mallum | pb_: ah no libXrandr.so.2.0 is included but not libXrandr.so.2 |
| 15:24.04 | mallum | pb_: I'll fix that |
| 15:24.09 | pb_ | I don't have eve libXrandr.so.2.0 |
| 15:24.11 | pb_ | even |
| 15:24.40 | pb_ | just libXrandr.so.1.0 |
| 15:25.31 | mallum | ok wierd, libxrandr is part of the xlibs package |
| 15:25.57 | pb_ | ah, there is no xlibs package in your feed. |
| 15:26.09 | pb_ | looks like I still have the plain 4.2 version from unstable |
| 15:27.19 | mallum | ok let me see whats going on there |
| 15:28.43 | mallum | wierd, but I think I fixed it |
| 15:30.44 | mallum | pb_: there are some locale libs which are not packaged, there are; |
| 15:30.47 | mallum | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:30.47 | mallum | ximcp.so.2 xlcUTF8Load.so.2 xlocale.so.2 |
| 15:30.47 | mallum | xlcDef.so.2 xlibi18n.so.2 xomGeneric.so.2 |
| 15:31.11 | *** join/#gpe jg (~jg@dialup-63.214.73.106.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net) |
| 15:31.18 | mallum | jg: aha :-) |
| 15:31.26 | mallum | jg: hello |
| 15:31.42 | jg | mallum: hi |
| 15:31.42 | mallum | pb_: do you think there the generated ones jg spoke of ? |
| 15:32.06 | mallum | jg: http://www.handhelds.org/~mallum/feed/ |
| 15:32.34 | mallum | jg: current CVS gcc 3.2 compiled X packages |
| 15:32.44 | mallum | jg: no quite right yet |
| 15:33.02 | jg | what's the problem? |
| 15:33.56 | mallum | jg: figured most out now, ( missing updated xrender, xrandr libs, fontconfig need fc-cache run + some other bits ) |
| 15:34.29 | mallum | jg: just about to tackle the locale lib problem |
| 15:34.59 | jg | needs also optional handhelds cursor theme |
| 15:35.13 | mallum | jg: already added that and set it as defualt ;-) |
| 15:36.52 | mallum | jg: binaries/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/locale/lib/common/ exists with libs, but is missing from packages |
| 15:37.04 | mallum | jg: are these the generated libs you spoke of ? |
| 15:37.26 | jg | I think so. |
| 15:37.57 | jg | there is a config file which says which .so is needed for what locale. |
| 15:37.57 | jg | along with the data required. |
| 15:38.15 | mallum | jg: ok, I'll try and find it |
| 15:39.16 | *** join/#gpe geers (~geers@ti100710a080-0383.bb.online.no) |
| 15:40.40 | mallum | jg: Im guessing that file may well be in xc/ somewhere rather than binary build dirs ? |
| 15:41.01 | jg | no, it is dealt with at run time. |
| 15:41.16 | jg | When a locale is requested, the right .so gets loaded by xlib for that locale. |
| 15:41.28 | jg | there is a copy of the file in xc, of course. |
| 15:41.50 | jg | I don't think it exactly mirrors the directory structure when installed, IIRC. |
| 15:42.45 | mallum | ok...let me see |
| 15:43.38 | mallum | jg: oh I see, each local lists the libs needed |
| 15:44.12 | mallum | jg: so If I just include the libs referecned by the X locales you've included, we should be good to go ? |
| 15:44.51 | jg | that file can be parsed to figure out dependencies, and the locales themselves can be packaged separately with dependencies on the right .so files to cause them to get loaded only if needed. |
| 15:45.56 | jg | that's the "right" thing to do. |
| 15:45.58 | jg | It is more work... |
| 15:46.12 | jg | but it is robust against more locales appearing in the sources with time. |
| 15:46.19 | jg | less maintenance. |
| 15:46.25 | jg | so that's the choice. |
| 15:48.02 | mallum | jg: ok for now I'll just package them in with what we have and see if the gtk1.2 window title problem is fixed |
| 15:48.18 | jg | should be: it was when I tested it. |
| 15:49.04 | mallum | jg: and then I guess with fam 0.7 going utf8? we can just ship the utf8 one in the package and make seperate packages for other locales ? |
| 15:49.25 | jg | may also need the "C" locale, maybe. |
| 15:50.14 | mallum | yeah, maybe I should just add just both of them for now ? |
| 15:50.22 | jg | yup. |
| 15:50.23 | mallum | pb_: are you followin g this o' locale master ? |
| 15:50.27 | jg | for testing. |
| 15:50.50 | mallum | yeah, thats what I'll do |
| 15:57.59 | pb_ | mallum: sorry, was afk |
| 15:58.09 | pb_ | mallum: want to run it by me again? |
| 15:58.33 | jg | btw, the Xcursor library is also an optional library: Xlib won't load it if it isn't present, and it should work in its absense. So you can package it separately, and have the handhelds cursor theme depend on it if you want studly cursors on the handheld. |
| 15:58.50 | mallum | jg: yes I've packaged it seperately |
| 15:59.09 | jg | The point being is that Xlib need not depend on it. |
| 15:59.09 | mallum | jg: pb would have beaten me if Id put it in xlibs |
| 15:59.23 | mallum | jg: yeah nothing is depending on it |
| 15:59.26 | jg | 16 meg folks won't want to spend space on studly cursors. |
| 15:59.47 | pb_ | jg: quite right. |
| 16:00.03 | mallum | pb_: bascially I've added the locale libs, but only for C and en_US.utf8 locales ( no en_GB one ) |
| 16:00.16 | pb_ | mallum: shipping en_US.utf8 is probably not all that worthwhile. |
| 16:00.18 | mallum | pb_: extra locales would exist in seperate packaes |
| 16:00.19 | pb_ | mallum: is there a C@utf-8? |
| 16:00.50 | mallum | pb_: not that I can see, but the C locale does use the utf8 laoder |
| 16:01.03 | pb_ | mallum: ok. |
| 16:01.29 | pb_ | mallum: suggest you just put C in the core package for now, and we can figure out which locales are worth shipping separately at our leisure. |
| 16:01.53 | mallum | pb_: okey sure, I'll remove the utf8 one on next package build |
| 16:02.01 | jg | pb_: in principle, one can parse an xlib configuration file, and figure out the dependencies for each locale for packaging. |
| 16:02.08 | mallum | pb_: I've uplaoded new packaes btw ( xlib is there now ) |
| 16:02.10 | pb_ | jg: right. |
| 16:02.26 | mallum | I have to take a break now ... my brain is dead from too much cd'ing |
| 16:02.28 | pb_ | jg: it would be neat to have a script to auto-generate xlib locale packages like we have for gtk. |
| 16:02.52 | pb_ | jg: the same ipkg mechanism for auto-installing them should work, I think. |
| 16:02.58 | jg | on list of things to do... but it's been there way too long :-(. |
| 16:03.14 | pb_ | maybe we can persuade mallum to have a go. |
| 16:10.03 | jg | between fonts and breaking my leg, it's been hard... |
| 16:10.38 | pb_ | yeah. |
| 16:24.05 | mallum | yes, I'll look at how the gtk ones work and have a go, but not now |
| 16:25.53 | pb_ | ok, cool |
| 16:27.21 | mallum | pb_: its is possible to make the gtk2.2 libs prelinked now too ? |
| 16:32.26 | pb_ | mallum: should be, yeah |
| 16:32.33 | pb_ | mallum: give it a go and see how you get on |
| 16:34.10 | mallum | pb_: yeah I dont think I'll attempt to x-compile gtk2.2 today |
| 16:34.14 | pb_ | the QT dudes were still having problems, but that seemed to be mostly due to some wacky C++ constructions. |
| 16:34.28 | pb_ | mallum: the 2.2 binaries in unstable should be fine, no need to recompile them. |
| 16:35.02 | mallum | pb_: you may want to add -br to the tinyx startup switches for the black root win in gpe-dm |
| 16:35.07 | pb_ | ok |
| 16:35.49 | mallum | pb_: unless you call on sometihng in the X build tree ( I've updated nullxdm ) |
| 16:36.03 | pb_ | I guess that will break with old tinyx, so I had better hold off until the new packages are in unstable. |
| 16:36.56 | mallum | pb_: yeah good point - does old tinyX barf on it ? |
| 16:37.03 | mallum | pb_: alternatively I could add that patch |
| 16:37.14 | pb_ | mallum: I think so, yeah |
| 16:37.43 | mallum | pb_: okey |
| 16:37.53 | mallum | pb_: how do I turn prelinking on with gtk2.2 then ? |
| 16:38.01 | pb_ | mallum: prelink -a |
| 16:38.36 | mallum | pb_: okey and that'll prelink everything on my system ? |
| 16:38.39 | pb_ | yep. |
| 16:38.46 | pb_ | you can use -v to see what it's doing. |
| 16:39.02 | mallum | cool |
| 16:39.07 | pb_ | see http://handhelds.org/~pb/prelink.8.html |
| 16:42.13 | mallum | okey thanks |
| 16:53.06 | mallum | it appears to be working |
| 16:53.36 | mallum | jg: http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php3?ikony=71 <-- nice aa cursors |
| 16:56.19 | jg | not all that nice. |
| 17:01.13 | mallum | jg: :( |
| 17:01.21 | mallum | pb_: is libgpewidget broken ? |
| 17:01.57 | mallum | pb_: gpe apps are trying to link to libgpewidget.so.1 ( which dont exist ) yet libgpewidget1 is installed |
| 17:04.19 | mallum | pb_: its ok, I removed and reinstalled |
| 17:10.07 | mallum | jg: I guess apps have to be linkeded against libxcursor for its magic to work ? |
| 17:10.25 | pb_ | mallum: weird, I wonder how that happened. |
| 17:10.29 | pb_ | mallum: maybe some random ipkg lossage |
| 17:10.40 | mallum | pb_: yeah no doubt |
| 17:10.55 | mallum | pb_: prelink got quite a way through before segfaulting |
| 17:11.08 | mallum | pb_: on libstartup-notification |
| 17:11.31 | mallum | pb_: I have a feeling now the server may not have the xranr extension installed |
| 17:12.39 | jg | mallum: you have to have both the Xcursor library, and the cursors themselves.. |
| 17:12.54 | jg | Did you tell it to build the handhelds cursors? |
| 17:13.01 | mallum | jg: yep |
| 17:13.30 | mallum | jg: xdpyinfo dont say anything about an XCusor extension though, maybe I need to activate that ? |
| 17:13.51 | jg | No, it's not a separate X extension. |
| 17:14.02 | mallum | jg: hmmm |
| 17:14.10 | jg | It is just a library Xlib uses, in concert with new stuff in render for cursors. |
| 17:14.28 | mallum | jg: does it need any magic to enable it ( it just worked on my other box ) ? |
| 17:14.48 | pb_ | mallum: ok, libstartup-notification probably needs recompiled with new binutils |
| 17:15.22 | mallum | pb_: okey I'll do that |
| 17:15.35 | jg | don't think so. |
| 17:16.18 | mallum | jg: I have; |
| 17:16.20 | mallum | /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/icons # ls |
| 17:16.20 | mallum | default handhelds |
| 17:16.20 | mallum | /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/icons # cd default/ |
| 17:16.20 | mallum | /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/icons/default # ls |
| 17:16.20 | mallum | index.theme |
| 17:16.21 | mallum | /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/icons/default # cat index.theme |
| 17:16.23 | mallum | [Icon Theme] |
| 17:16.25 | mallum | Inherits=handhelds |
| 17:16.27 | mallum | /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/icons/default # |
| 17:16.43 | mallum | jg: and there are generated files in handhelds |
| 17:16.53 | jg | dunno what's going on. |
| 17:18.01 | jg | there are a set of cursors in: /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/icons/handhelds/cursors ? |
| 17:19.03 | mallum | yep |
| 17:19.13 | mallum | I hassling mrP on #gtk about it |
| 17:22.48 | pb_ | mallum: I will also built a new prelink ipk later, see if that stops it segfaulting. |
| 17:23.04 | mallum | jg: hmm, I dont need to stick libxcursor in ld_preload or summin ? |
| 17:23.15 | mallum | pb_: okey cool |
| 17:23.17 | jg | mallum: what happens if you set the cursor theme manually? |
| 17:23.25 | mallum | jg: how do I do that ? |
| 17:23.29 | jg | mallum: don't think so: I believe Xlib dlopens it. |
| 17:23.46 | jg | mallum: there are some environment variables for size, theme and so on. |
| 17:23.54 | jg | XC_ something or other IIRC |
| 17:23.57 | mallum | jg: okey |
| 17:24.02 | jg | lunch call just happend. |
| 17:24.09 | jg | back in maybe 20 mins. |
| 17:24.53 | mallum | jg: okey |
| 17:25.15 | mallum | hmm, always fun using 'strings' to figure out how an app works |
| 17:25.34 | pb_ | mallum: maybe use strace, see if you can spot it dlopening the library |
| 17:25.40 | pb_ | or inspect /proc/<pid>/maps |
| 17:28.04 | mallum | pb_: yep starce reports open("/usr/X11R6/lib/libXcursor.so.1", O_RDONLY) = 5 |
| 17:39.57 | jg | mallum: I'm back |
| 17:40.12 | mallum | jg: reboot fixed it :)) |
| 17:40.17 | mallum | jg: scaps on the way |
| 17:41.53 | PaxAnima | mallum: is the X server usable for mere mortals as well? |
| 17:42.46 | jg | mallum: you were probably using the old Xlib. |
| 17:43.49 | mallum | jg: yeah |
| 17:43.54 | mallum | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.11828.png |
| 17:44.04 | mallum | and http://handhelds.org/scap/port.11660.png |
| 17:45.13 | jg | mallum: pretty.... |
| 17:45.27 | mallum | PaxAnima: yeah should be fine for the masses :-) |
| 17:45.37 | mallum | pb_: the xrandr menu option works now too |
| 17:46.05 | jg | gtk apps resizing correctly too? |
| 17:46.21 | PaxAnima | mallum: is the locale thing fixed? |
| 17:46.49 | mallum | PaxAnima: hopefully .. please test if you have 1,2 apps |
| 17:46.55 | jg | PaxAnima: if you looked at the screen shot, you'd know it was.... |
| 17:47.25 | PaxAnima | mallum: I will... |
| 17:47.38 | mallum | jg: oh no it never happened with gtk2 as matchbxo uses the _NET_WM_NET utf8 property for window titles |
| 17:47.42 | jg | The remaining question is whether we've got the RGB order all right through rotation..... |
| 17:48.12 | mallum | jg: ah yes |
| 17:48.43 | mallum | things definetly feel a little snappier |
| 17:49.03 | jg | There is support to do all the right things in Xrandr and render to deal with subpixel order. |
| 17:49.14 | PaxAnima | mallum: so all I do is to add your feed and do an ipkg update & upgrade? |
| 17:49.34 | mallum | PaxAnima: yeah .... and restart your ipaq afterwood to be sure |
| 17:49.43 | PaxAnima | okidoki |
| 17:51.19 | jg | mallum: the file browser doesn't use its fonts right.... Fuzzy AA fonts rather than cool Xft2 ones... What gives? |
| 17:52.13 | jg | or is that the app launcher... In any case, the one you put a screen shot up of.... |
| 17:52.30 | mallum | jg: let me look |
| 17:52.55 | mallum | jg: I think they look fuzzy just becuase of the transparency |
| 17:53.03 | mallum | jg: its linked to libxft2 |
| 17:53.30 | jg | no, something isn't right... |
| 17:54.16 | mallum | jg: the window titles are using the same code, they look ok ? |
| 17:54.21 | jg | contrast with what dillo is doing... |
| 17:55.57 | jg | mallum: how do you paint that screen? |
| 17:56.47 | mallum | jg: I think your right, Im doing another scap |
| 17:57.42 | mallum | jg: I just create an xftdrawable from a pre drawn pixmap and xftdrawutf8 to that |
| 18:00.03 | mallum | jg: see http://handhelds.org/scap/port.5326.png |
| 18:01.03 | jg | mallum: that one looks better. |
| 18:01.48 | mallum | jg: I think it was just the transparency hack |
| 18:02.20 | jg | mallum: time for some keithp consulting... |
| 18:02.44 | mallum | jg: yah |
| 18:03.26 | PaxAnima | mallum: yup.. gtk1.2 app seems to work |
| 18:03.26 | jg | 'cause that fuzzyness just doesn't hack it... |
| 18:03.39 | mallum | PaxAnima: cool, the window title is ok ? |
| 18:03.45 | PaxAnima | mallum: yup |
| 18:03.51 | mallum | PaxAnima: excellent |
| 18:04.12 | PaxAnima | mallum: now... let's make a dock app.... ;) |
| 18:05.45 | PaxAnima | mallum: what it's remaining, anyway? |
| 18:06.52 | mallum | jg: I have a feeling that maybe the rgb ordering is wrong |
| 18:07.09 | mallum | jg: that last screenshot looks a lot better on scap than it does on my ipaq |
| 18:07.19 | jg | mallum: could be... |
| 18:07.25 | jg | depends on the model. |
| 18:07.36 | jg | We'll have to figure out the right thing.... |
| 18:07.41 | mallum | jg: indeed |
| 18:07.55 | mallum | jg: Id better do some chores now before lady gets home |
| 18:08.24 | jg | yup. |
| 18:08.28 | mallum | jg: she wont be impressed by AA cursors, but more by a filled dishwasher etc ;-) |
| 18:08.42 | PaxAnima | pb_: what was the thing mccarthy was complaining about that made playing the lights-out-game impossible? tap'n'hold, or whatever it was.. |
| 18:09.04 | mallum | jg: oh this will make you green -> http://handhelds.org/~mallum/shuttle.jpg |
| 18:09.51 | jg | who manufactured the LCD's? |
| 18:10.30 | jg | ah, sharp, I see... |
| 18:11.34 | PaxAnima | my ipaq crashed :/ |
| 18:12.32 | jg | mallum: how expensive are the sharp's? |
| 18:13.15 | mallum | jg: I got them for 180 ukp each |
| 18:13.24 | jg | what res? |
| 18:15.33 | mallum | 1024x768 |
| 18:17.12 | jg | too low... |
| 18:17.17 | jg | oh well |
| 18:17.52 | jg | I'll stick to the 1280x1024 panels I have in my office (whenever I get to see my office again...). |
| 18:19.10 | mallum | jg: well my laptop has 1152x768 which is what i primaraly develop on, so I wanted to get something not too different to that ( thus mac kbd too ) |
| 18:19.32 | jg | My laptop is 1400x1050. |
| 18:19.37 | mallum | yeah yeah |
| 18:19.39 | mallum | ;-) |
| 18:20.01 | *** join/#gpe dc_ (~dc@modem-130-56-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 18:20.05 | dc_ | huray! |
| 18:20.25 | mallum | my laptop used to be all shiny until all the crappy titanium paint got rubbed off by my watch, dogs chewing it |
| 18:20.30 | mallum | dc_: hey dc_ |
| 18:20.39 | dc_ | hehe, titanium was it mallum? |
| 18:20.46 | moray | dc_: celebrating anything in particular, or just joining the channel? |
| 18:21.09 | moray | (hi people, boring presentation to write for tomorrow :( ) |
| 18:21.19 | dc_ | I have!!! |
| 18:21.21 | mallum | dc_: there are new X packages in http://handhelds.org/~mallum/feed |
| 18:21.38 | dc_ | original manga DVDs from japan :DDD |
| 18:21.43 | moray | ha |
| 18:21.52 | dc_ | and! |
| 18:21.56 | dc_ | my scaner now works. |
| 18:21.57 | mallum | dc_: these are gcc3.2 built, fix the gtk1.2 window title problem and have sexy AA cursors ( you need to install libxcursor for that thouhg ) |
| 18:22.32 | PaxAnima | hey, dc_ |
| 18:22.45 | dc_ | mallum: omfg no. |
| 18:23.52 | dc_ | mallum: AA cursor is mad! |
| 18:23.59 | dc_ | this day is too good to be true :D |
| 18:24.07 | dc_ | it's real life :D |
| 18:24.10 | mallum | dc_: I put some shots on scap |
| 18:24.14 | dc_ | mallum: do! |
| 18:24.17 | mallum | dc_: the cursor is nice and small |
| 18:24.25 | mallum | dc_: there already there |
| 18:24.33 | *** join/#gpe geers (~geers@ti100710a080-0383.bb.online.no) |
| 18:24.40 | jg | mallum, dc_: you can also make the cursors a bit bigger.... |
| 18:25.17 | PaxAnima | mallum: maybe call the ipkg libxcursor? not "libxcusor".... ;) |
| 18:25.49 | mallum | ha, oops :( |
| 18:26.08 | jg | mallum: the right thing is to let the cursor theme pull in the cursor library. |
| 18:26.39 | mallum | jg: okey sure, I'll split the package |
| 18:29.53 | jg | mallum: good: there will be multiple themes with time... |
| 18:30.02 | mallum | jg: yes indeed |
| 18:30.10 | mallum | jg: I've added it to the todo |
| 18:31.46 | PaxAnima | dc_: tried the irc input yet? |
| 18:32.01 | PaxAnima | mallum: what it's remaining for the dock app? |
| 18:32.11 | dc_ | no,. |
| 18:32.20 | dc_ | I need to finish my coursework for tomorrow |
| 18:32.40 | PaxAnima | oh.. |
| 18:32.54 | mallum | PaxAnima: me to start on it ? |
| 18:33.21 | PaxAnima | mallum: oh, so you haven't done anything yey |
| 18:33.23 | PaxAnima | yet |
| 18:35.15 | PaxAnima | mallum: but is the xevact way of getting input the right way? |
| 18:36.51 | mallum | PaxAnima: yeah kind of |
| 18:37.10 | mallum | PaxAnima: I will do it, and probably this weel |
| 18:37.13 | mallum | week |
| 18:37.29 | PaxAnima | okay |
| 18:37.32 | mallum | PaxAnima: I just have a load of matchbox stuff todo for 0.4, its pretty boring but needs doing |
| 18:37.40 | *** join/#gpe mccarthy (~mccarthy@granular.che.pitt.edu) |
| 18:37.54 | PaxAnima | mallum: sure... |
| 18:38.03 | mccarthy | anyone know how to set the font size in a pango app.... |
| 18:38.06 | mallum | PaxAnima: it bascially involves converting all the .pngs to xpms and ifdef ing stuff so it will build without --enable-png |
| 18:38.20 | mallum | PaxAnima: feel free to help out if you want ;-) |
| 18:38.23 | mccarthy | i.e., in a pango font descriptor? |
| 18:38.35 | PaxAnima | mallum: got enough slavework to do myself... |
| 18:38.36 | mccarthy | "times,italic,???" |
| 18:39.04 | PaxAnima | mccarthy: looked at my horrible PIM source yet? |
| 18:39.27 | mccarthy | PaxAnima: I thought you said that wasnt the newest? |
| 18:39.31 | mccarthy | (but no) |
| 18:39.36 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@p50929BCC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:39.40 | florian | hi all |
| 18:39.42 | mccarthy | florian: hello |
| 18:40.07 | PaxAnima | mccarthy: yes... the code is much the same, but the building of the PIM is much better... other than that I don't there is too much difference |
| 18:40.30 | PaxAnima | thing |
| 18:40.30 | mallum | PaxAnima: ha |
| 18:42.48 | mccarthy | nevermind on the pango thing..... times italic 12 works (no commas) |
| 18:43.02 | PaxAnima | mccarthy: anyway, I might get around to clean up the code and make it more usable if any of the PIM apps for gpe might need some of the stuff |
| 18:43.40 | mccarthy | PaxAnima: I will need to look at it someday to see if your recurrence handling is better than the ugly thing that gpe-calendar does |
| 18:43.55 | PaxAnima | mccarthy: oh, mine is even more ugly.. |
| 18:43.56 | mccarthy | (also to steal ical output code) |
| 18:45.20 | PaxAnima | mccarthy: for reccurence I have a table in my DB for all the recurring events, e.g. it stores a date and an ID pointing to the original data in the calendar table |
| 18:45.55 | mccarthy | PaxAnima: you mean you store *all* the dates in the db? (what if the event never ends?) |
| 18:46.25 | PaxAnima | mccarthy: well, I don't have never-ending events (I think) |
| 18:46.51 | PaxAnima | or maybe I did add it... not sure (but I don't think so) |
| 18:47.24 | mccarthy | PaxAnima: oh, we only store the *first* date in the db (along with the rule) and then *make* all the "clones" as needed for the viewer.... |
| 18:48.36 | PaxAnima | well, I wanted a simple solution when I first made the calendar, so that way seemed like the easiest way... and I can also move events around and so on |
| 18:49.23 | PaxAnima | mccarthy: how do you handle deletion of events then? |
| 18:50.41 | mccarthy | PaxAnima: you cannot currently delete only one of the recurring events... :( |
| 18:50.50 | mccarthy | (I know *how* to handle it, I just havent) |
| 18:51.13 | PaxAnima | mccarthy: ok.. that's simple with my scheme |
| 18:52.07 | PaxAnima | but adds overhead for the storage, of course |
| 18:53.32 | mccarthy | PaxAnima: sure. I think it royally messes with "neverending" ones too :( |
| 18:54.10 | PaxAnima | well, what events needs to be neverending, anyway? |
| 18:57.20 | jg | mallum: fell free to replace the packages in unstable when you are happy... |
| 19:02.36 | mallum | jg: cool, thanks |
| 19:03.01 | mallum | jg: I will wait for some ppl here to play. rename + breakup xcursor and then upload |
| 19:28.56 | *** join/#gpe pb_ (~pb@pc2-cmbg4-3-cust239.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:40.32 | *** join/#gpe dc_ (~dc@modem-16-60-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 19:42.16 | pb_ | dc_: evening |
| 19:42.28 | dc_ | pb_: hey |
| 19:49.43 | pb_ | dc_: my laptop arrived yesterday |
| 19:50.13 | dc_ | oh wahay! |
| 19:50.14 | dc_ | pb_: :D |
| 19:50.18 | pb_ | indeed |
| 19:50.29 | dc_ | you must be a very happy man then |
| 19:50.45 | pb_ | :-) |
| 19:51.00 | pb_ | well, my happiness won't be complete until I have X working on it. |
| 19:51.00 | dc_ | pb_: have you installed debian yet? |
| 19:51.08 | pb_ | dc_: yup |
| 19:51.17 | dc_ | gooood. |
| 19:51.23 | dc_ | X problems? |
| 19:51.42 | pb_ | dc_: well, haven't managed to make it work yet. mallum advised me to install a new kernel, so I'm doing that now. |
| 19:51.50 | dc_ | ah good |
| 19:52.14 | pb_ | I also haven't even tried to make the airport work yet. Did you ever order one of those for yourself? |
| 19:52.20 | dc_ | pb_: one piece of advice, try not to scratch the top of your iBook like mine :] |
| 19:52.29 | pb_ | dc_: thanks for the top tip :-) |
| 19:52.45 | dc_ | pb_: yes, I orderd one last week |
| 19:52.48 | pb_ | cool |
| 19:52.52 | dc_ | so lets hope it comes sometime soon. |
| 19:53.02 | pb_ | yes |
| 19:55.36 | pb_ | dc_: oh, btw, those gpe-calendar icons look quite a lot better with the new libgtk. |
| 19:55.44 | dc_ | yay |
| 19:55.57 | dc_ | I should upgrade my iPAQ sometime and also test out the new X |
| 19:56.01 | pb_ | yes. |
| 19:56.09 | dc_ | but my coursework is due in tomorrow :/ |
| 19:56.19 | pb_ | ah, suck. which subject is that for? |
| 19:57.24 | dc_ | maths |
| 19:57.41 | dc_ | then the 2nd peice is due in two weeks time |
| 19:57.55 | pb_ | :-/ |
| 19:58.47 | dc_ | bbl food |
| 19:59.16 | mallum | pb_: the benh kernels have support for the airport cards |
| 19:59.30 | mallum | pb_: they just use a modified orinocco driver IIRC |
| 20:01.52 | pb_ | yeah, so I heard. |
| 20:02.39 | pb_ | what's the status with your X packages at the moment? |
| 20:03.04 | mallum | pb_: well they seem to work pretty good for me |
| 20:03.21 | mallum | pb_: I just need to break up the libxcursor package |
| 20:03.28 | pb_ | ok, cool |
| 20:03.29 | dc_ | it seems food may be a few minutes |
| 20:03.36 | pb_ | heh |
| 20:03.45 | dc_ | I guess I should upgrade my kernel before I install my new airport. |
| 20:03.55 | dc_ | it's seems quite old :\ |
| 20:04.26 | dc_ | hrm |
| 20:05.30 | mallum | pb_: oh I intalled gcc-3.2 on my cats |
| 20:05.34 | pb_ | cool |
| 20:05.50 | mallum | pb_: am I safe to change the gcc softlink to point to it rather than 2.95 ? |
| 20:06.07 | pb_ | mallum: just install gcc-defaults from sid, it should happen automatically |
| 20:07.38 | mallum | pb_: cool, thanks |
| 20:08.06 | mallum | I'll build a new matchbox with it tommorow and then that should be prelinkable too |
| 20:08.20 | mallum | pb_: X definetly feels a little snappier I think |
| 20:08.26 | pb_ | mallum: great. |
| 20:08.40 | pb_ | (though remember it is binutils that makes the difference for prelink, not gcc) |
| 20:09.08 | pb_ | did you have any luck prelinking the stuff on your ipaq, or is libstartup-notification still causing trouble? |
| 20:09.22 | mallum | well it seemed to prelink most stuff |
| 20:09.30 | mallum | did you uplaod a new prelink ? |
| 20:09.50 | pb_ | no, not yet, but I don't think a new prelink will actually just make it work. |
| 20:09.58 | mallum | what binutils version should I get ? |
| 20:10.04 | pb_ | all I am expecting it to do is change the segfault for a different error message :-} |
| 20:10.26 | mallum | pb_: okey I'll build a new libsn as soon as I get 3.2 etc up on the cats |
| 20:10.43 | pb_ | mallum: I'm not totally sure that any standard debian binutils is combreloc-enabled on arm at the moment. Probably best to build it from source yourself, using your HJ 2.13.whatever. |
| 20:10.56 | pb_ | righto |
| 20:11.13 | mallum | pb_: or do an apt-get source and check ? |
| 20:11.30 | pb_ | good idea. |
| 20:11.41 | pb_ | you need to look out for debian/patches/011_disable_combreloc_ARM_ONLY.diff |
| 20:11.56 | pb_ | and, obviously, make sure that it doesn't get applied. |
| 20:12.40 | mallum | pb_: okey why do they do that ? |
| 20:13.09 | pb_ | until fairly recently, enabling combreloc on ARM caused the linker to scrunge the program headers on DSOs. |
| 20:13.49 | mallum | ah ok, but thats ok now ? |
| 20:14.05 | pb_ | yeah |
| 20:14.08 | mallum | cool |
| 20:16.06 | mallum | pb_: yes 011_disable_combreloc_ARM_ONLY.diff exists |
| 20:21.30 | mallum | pb_: I've disabled it and am building a new package |
| 20:21.40 | pb_ | cool |
| 20:22.32 | *** join/#gpe goran (~goran@P-7.19.EUnet.yu) |
| 20:22.39 | goran | Hi everybody |
| 20:24.38 | mallum | hey |
| 20:25.06 | mallum | pb_: when you did the root pixmap id property thing, did you have to do anything special to the pixmap to make it shareable ? |
| 20:25.18 | pb_ | mallum: not that I recall. |
| 20:26.13 | goran | i am a big newbie in whoole story with all this Linux Handheld stuff |
| 20:26.41 | goran | so, can anybody msg me on private so i can ask some stupid questions like what to buy and what to install? |
| 20:26.44 | goran | thanx |
| 20:26.56 | mallum | why private ? |
| 20:27.11 | mallum | just ask your ques here or in #handhelds.org |
| 20:27.14 | pb_ | goran: try #handhelds.org for that kind of issue |
| 20:27.30 | goran | ok |
| 20:27.37 | goran | i can ask here... |
| 20:27.58 | goran | i want to buy some PDA (or handheld) for max 500$, but i donot mind if it will be lover ;) |
| 20:28.21 | goran | i want linux platform becouse greater usabillity |
| 20:28.31 | goran | so what do you sugest? |
| 20:28.57 | pb_ | iPAQ or Zaurus are your two main choices right now. |
| 20:29.00 | goran | and when i buy my pda, what next i must do (backup win from it, install familiar...) |
| 20:29.22 | goran | Zaurus use Qtopia and i donot like that (i hate QT and i want to develop my own apps) |
| 20:29.24 | _moray | goran: instructions are on http://familiar.handhelds.org/ |
| 20:30.06 | _moray | goran: there's nothing to stop GPE being used on the Zaurus, it's just that no one's yet done the work to make it available (at least as far as I know) |
| 20:30.46 | pb_ | goran: the Zaurus ships with Qt, but then the iPAQ ships with Windows. In both cases you can remove the factory-installed OS and replace it with another. |
| 20:30.46 | goran | and what is the easiest solution to have open system pda, with all pda's commonly used functions? |
| 20:30.49 | mallum | pb_: hmm that reminds me, have them zaraus's got any cheaper on that site you got yours from ? |
| 20:31.08 | pb_ | mallum: dunno, they seemed to be dropping quite quickly last month. |
| 20:31.14 | pb_ | mallum: it was Digi UK if you want to look again. |
| 20:32.03 | goran | ok so i can buy any model that i want (that have good cpu, memory...)... and what is requipments? |
| 20:33.01 | _moray | goran: e.g. the newest iPAQs aren't (yet) supported by Linux |
| 20:33.09 | pb_ | goran: suggest you buy either a Zaurus SL-5500, or an ipaq 3800/3900. |
| 20:33.28 | goran | ok thanx... i will check prices now ;) |
| 20:33.43 | mallum | pb_: yeah 199 still |
| 20:33.50 | pb_ | ah ok |
| 20:34.00 | pb_ | I guess they probably can't go much lower than that. |
| 20:34.58 | mallum | yeah, though it wouldn't suprise me if they were at fosdem flogging them cheaper still |
| 20:35.40 | pb_ | what price do Sharp have them at now? |
| 20:36.19 | pb_ | _moray: do you use evolution 1.2? |
| 20:36.29 | _moray | pb_: yes, though it's not working very well for me :/ |
| 20:36.49 | pb_ | _moray: do you have any idea how to stop it invoking the browser whenever I receive html spam with a hyperlink in? |
| 20:37.05 | _moray | pb_: (spends most of its time hung 'scanning folders') |
| 20:37.13 | pb_ | ah yes, it does that for me too. :-( |
| 20:37.32 | pb_ | I think I might try to go back to an older one. |
| 20:37.32 | mccarthy | pb_: it spawns a browser? before you click on the link? |
| 20:37.35 | _moray | pb_: hm, I haven't had that happen - it launches it externally? |
| 20:37.37 | pb_ | mccarthy: yes. |
| 20:37.40 | pb_ | _moray: yeah. |
| 20:37.56 | _moray | pb_: although most of my spam gets filed away unread, so I may have missed it that way |
| 20:38.07 | pb_ | It seems to happen if the "current" message in my inbox is one of these spams, and I switch to another folder. |
| 20:38.11 | mccarthy | pb_: wow. I am running mine on redhat 8.0ish and it works fine.... (none of moray's scanning folders errors either) |
| 20:38.26 | mccarthy | pb_: is it 1.2 or 1.2.1? |
| 20:38.26 | _moray | pb_: ugh, so into being just a bug rather than an intended feature? |
| 20:38.29 | pb_ | If I remember to hit ^E before switching folders, the spam is expunged and nothing bad happens. |
| 20:38.47 | pb_ | _moray: I think so, yes. I have turned off "automatically detect links" and all this good stuff in the preferences, but it doesn't seem to help. |
| 20:39.01 | _moray | mccarthy: where are you reading mail from? I'm using an IMAP server 40-50ms away on the network |
| 20:39.22 | mccarthy | moray: oh. I have mine on the local /var/spool/ |
| 20:39.29 | pb_ | mccarthy: ah, that's probably the difference. |
| 20:39.40 | mccarthy | pb_: the version? |
| 20:39.51 | _moray | pb_: I'll have to investigate downgrading too, soon - it's kind of inconvenient having a five minute delay on reading new mail... |
| 20:40.02 | pb_ | mccarthy: no, I meant that you having your mail on local disk rather than IMAP is probably what makes it faster for you. |
| 20:40.29 | pb_ | _moray: it's pretty bad for me even at the office, where the mail server is about 0.5ms away. |
| 20:40.33 | _moray | I seem to remember reading about how clever Evolution's indexing is, written in such a way as to imply they expected you to be using local storage for mail |
| 20:40.38 | _moray | pb_: ah ok |
| 20:40.46 | mccarthy | pb_: oh. I tried it on imap for a few days, but like local better (but didnt notice that it was terribly slow though) |
| 20:41.00 | _moray | I suppose I could just use mutt until it sorts itself out, but that would be giving in to the bugginess ;) |
| 20:41.04 | pb_ | yeah. |
| 20:41.35 | mccarthy | pb moray: I thought the release notes for 1.2.1 said it fixed some imap bugs... |
| 20:42.02 | _moray | mccarthy: previously it was not super fast, but no problem; since the upgrade it, as I said, spend most of the time claiming to be scanning mail folders, and takes a very long time to do anything (as well as the back/forward buttons on messages having disappeared) |
| 20:42.08 | pb_ | mccarthy: I'm on 1.2.1-1 here. |
| 20:42.38 | mccarthy | sorry guys. cant help then.... :( |
| 20:42.48 | pb_ | oh well. :-/ |
| 20:42.52 | _moray | it is *sometimes* fine though, so it's clearly something complex that's wrong, rather than, say, them having decided to penalise IMAP users with sleep()s here and there... |
| 20:43.00 | pb_ | heh, yes. |
| 20:43.22 | pb_ | at first I thought it was just having trouble with big folders, but it sometimes to run at a glacial pace even with tiny (~ 10 message) folders. |
| 20:43.41 | _moray | I wondered if it might be (say) the IMAP server dropping idle connections and Evolution failing to notice this for a long time |
| 20:45.13 | *** join/#gpe joseph (unknown@24-90-171-4.nj.rr.com) |
| 20:50.22 | mallum | pb_, _moray: why not just use mutt on the server ;-) |
| 20:51.24 | pb_ | mallum: if I wanted to use mutt, I could use it over imap. |
| 20:51.58 | mallum | pb_: yes that too |
| 20:54.19 | _moray | 20:40 < _moray> I suppose I could just use mutt until it sorts itself out, but |
| 20:54.19 | _moray | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:58.01 | mallum | mutt is buggy ? |
| 20:58.31 | _moray | mallum: nonono, evolution is, but I have to *fight* the bugs from trying to stop me using it... |
| 20:59.54 | _moray | (it will cause more excitement than usual if it does, since I think there's another of these strikes just now) |
| 21:00.17 | pb_ | indeed there is. |
| 21:02.31 | mallum | gtk2 evo is on its way |
| 21:03.10 | _moray | yes, that would improve my desktop |
| 21:03.19 | _moray | anyone know if GTK2 Galeon works sensibly yet? |
| 21:03.28 | pb_ | _moray: seems to work pretty well for me. |
| 21:03.42 | pb_ | (using galeon-snapshot package from debian) |
| 21:04.10 | _moray | pb_: right, might try again then - last time some bugs (I don't recall which) made it difficult, a bit like evolution now |
| 21:05.13 | _moray | (hm, except that it won't start up) |
| 21:06.24 | mallum | pb_: does -Wall include -Wmissing-prototypes & -Wstrict-prototypes do you know ? |
| 21:06.44 | mallum | _moray: Im running it under garnome and it seems pretty solid |
| 21:06.56 | pb_ | mallum: yes, I think so |
| 21:07.26 | mallum | pb_: yeah thats what I would have thought too |
| 21:10.01 | *** join/#gpe moray (810f815f41@mma29.dar.cam.ac.uk) |
| 21:14.47 | mccarthy | how does one submit "guesses" in opie-mindbreaker? |
| 21:22.13 | mallum | mccarthy: hmm, maybe try #opie |
| 21:22.26 | mallum | mccarthy: AND TAKE YOUR MURDERED KITTEN WITH YOU ! |
| 21:23.06 | moray | so does anyone have an appropriate picture yet for the GPE kitten mascot? |
| 21:23.11 | dc_ | hehee |
| 21:23.18 | dc_ | mallum: :D |
| 21:23.19 | pb_ | phew, X seems to work now |
| 21:23.33 | dc_ | yay pb_ |
| 21:23.48 | pb_ | moray: before or after it meets its grisly fate? |
| 21:24.02 | mccarthy | mallum: ?! |
| 21:24.08 | mallum | pb_: cool, now run glxgears |
| 21:24.23 | mallum | mccarthy: everytime someone installs opie, a kitten dies |
| 21:24.57 | moray | pb_: well, before presumably, though we'd need an 'after' picture too to show people what happens when they use the wrong environment |
| 21:24.59 | mccarthy | mallum: I am planning on *cheating* off of them for the gpe-code program (not installing opie) (or else I wouldnt need to ask now would i?) |
| 21:25.22 | pb_ | mccarthy: ha! |
| 21:25.23 | mallum | mccarthy: only joking with you |
| 21:25.29 | mccarthy | why are we using a kitten? |
| 21:25.38 | mallum | I think a kitten for the gpe logo would be uber cool though |
| 21:25.46 | dc_ | I agree :D |
| 21:25.52 | mccarthy | I dont like cats |
| 21:25.53 | mallum | mccarthy: my girlfriend did gpe-code in like 15 seconds |
| 21:25.54 | mccarthy | :( |
| 21:26.01 | dc_ | kitten damn it mccarthy! |
| 21:26.07 | mccarthy | dc ;P |
| 21:26.12 | mallum | mccarthy: everybody loves kittens |
| 21:26.14 | dc_ | mccarthy: cats are different. |
| 21:26.16 | mccarthy | mallum: are you saying its too easy? |
| 21:26.21 | dc_ | :D |
| 21:26.21 | dc_ | mallum: sid... |
| 21:26.34 | dc_ | mallum: 15 seconds is pretty fast. |
| 21:26.48 | mccarthy | mallum: I guess I could make it 5 balls wide instead of 4... |
| 21:26.52 | mallum | mccarthy: no Im saying my girlfriend is either incredably intelligent or just damn lucky |
| 21:26.56 | mccarthy | (but mastermind has always been 4) |
| 21:27.09 | mccarthy | mallum:oh. It *is* pretty easy though |
| 21:27.15 | mallum | Im gonna play it safe and say somewhere in the middle |
| 21:27.24 | dc_ | godd idea. |
| 21:28.07 | mccarthy | pb_: if I were to *drag* the balls from the sidebar to the place they are to go, do you have any idea how one does that in gtk? |
| 21:28.19 | pb_ | mccarthy: ah, that's a neat idea |
| 21:28.25 | pb_ | mccarthy: but, umm.. |
| 21:28.38 | pb_ | mccarthy: you might have to do it by creating a mini-window and dragging that around. |
| 21:29.09 | pb_ | not sure if gtk has any direct support for that kind of thing or not. |
| 21:29.17 | mccarthy | pb_: hmmm.... thats how you interacted with the old qpe minebreaker |
| 21:29.29 | pb_ | mccarthy: ah. |
| 21:29.48 | mccarthy | pb_: I dont like the keep clicking until it turns the right color, option |
| 21:29.53 | pb_ | mccarthy: me neither |
| 21:30.13 | mallum | hmm I should remember to reenable my 64Mb on my ipaq |
| 21:30.17 | mccarthy | pb mallum: can I change the curser to be the little ball? or would that affect things other than my window? |
| 21:30.26 | mccarthy | I meanpointer... |
| 21:30.40 | pb_ | mccarthy: yeah, you can do that. |
| 21:30.42 | mallum | mccarthy: no just your window |
| 21:31.28 | mccarthy | pb mallum: I presume its easy? ;) |
| 21:33.22 | mallum | Im gonna make a kitten logo , Im gonna make a kitten logo, Im gonna make a kitten logo ... |
| 21:33.54 | dc_ | mallum: go on! |
| 21:34.31 | dc_ | we need some cute manga kitten or something |
| 21:34.48 | moray | ha |
| 21:35.12 | moray | (something like that sounds good to me) |
| 21:35.42 | moray | (as long as it looks vaguely compatible with Tux / the BSD demon / etc.) |
| 21:35.49 | dc_ | :] |
| 21:36.18 | mallum | I saw this site once that had loads of pictures of cute kittens |
| 21:37.21 | dc_ | oh. |
| 21:37.24 | dc_ | not ehh |
| 21:37.28 | dc_ | bonsai |
| 21:37.29 | moray | mallum: and the image probably ought to be GPLd or something... |
| 21:37.33 | pb_ | moray: if mallum draws the logo, I think we will end up with something much harder-looking than Tux or the daemon :-) |
| 21:37.33 | dc_ | kittnes or whatever |
| 21:37.56 | prpplague | hmmm, kittens, they make good tamales |
| 21:38.15 | mallum | prpplague: tamales ? |
| 21:38.40 | prpplague | mallum: bad joke, a mexican food item similiar to a burrito |
| 21:41.52 | *** join/#gpe joseph (unknown@24-90-171-4.nj.rr.com) |
| 21:42.29 | mallum | prpplague: next thing you'll say you run opie |
| 21:42.58 | *** join/#gpe flypiper (~M^B@12-222-141-210.client.insightBB.com) |
| 21:43.03 | prpplague | lol, eating kittens is one thing, running opie is just plain sick |
| 21:44.36 | mccarthy | pb_: you suggest gpe-lights look for GTK_BUTTON_RELEASE? (instead of BUTTON_PRESS?) |
| 21:45.28 | flypiper | prpplague: people actually run OPIE??? I thought it locked up before that?? |
| 21:45.29 | pb_ | mccarthy: just add GTK_BUTTON_RELEASE to your event mask |
| 21:45.45 | pb_ | mccarthy: you don't need to actually do anything with the events, just make sure they are delivered to your program. |
| 21:46.03 | prpplague | flypiper: ya well, i've heard rumors, but never seen anyone doing it |
| 21:46.19 | pb_ | I guess nobody likes to do that in public. |
| 21:46.22 | flypiper | prpplague: LOL.. same here |
| 21:47.57 | mccarthy | pb_: simply switching the two _PRESS for _RELEASE makes it not work :( |
| 21:48.16 | pb_ | mccarthy: you need to add RELEASE to you existing mask, not use it to replace PRESS. |
| 21:49.19 | mccarthy | pb_: oh. OK. I think :) |
| 21:50.55 | mccarthy | pb_: if I have *both* in my "mask", which should actually cause the toggle? (so that it works nicely with libgpewidget)? the press or the release? |
| 21:51.02 | pb_ | mccarthy: press |
| 21:51.22 | pb_ | well, it doesn't much matter actually, but press will probably make for a better interactive feel |
| 21:52.15 | mccarthy | pb_: ok. I am going to upload some small changes to gpe-lights2 |
| 21:52.20 | moray | pb_: although some MS Windows types assume they can press, then move off and change their mind, releasing with no effect, I think |
| 21:52.29 | pb_ | moray: oh yes, including me in fact. |
| 21:52.32 | pb_ | moray: good point |
| 21:52.32 | mccarthy | pb_: I still dont think I can make the ipks yet. but will check the ipaq cluster |
| 21:52.56 | pb_ | mccarthy: ok |
| 21:53.09 | pb_ | mccarthy: I am presently unable to build ipks as well, until I find some more ethernet cables. |
| 21:53.27 | mccarthy | pb_: still no 2.2 arm debs? |
| 21:53.33 | pb_ | mccarthy: let me check |
| 21:53.52 | pb_ | nope |
| 21:53.58 | pb_ | I think the autobuilder is busted again. |
| 21:54.01 | mccarthy | pb_: damn.... |
| 21:54.17 | pb_ | I guess I could build it myself. |
| 21:54.22 | *** join/#gpe dc__ (~dc@modem-236-59-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 21:54.30 | mccarthy | pb_: I could *try* nils' toolchain, but that would be painful, I think |
| 21:54.40 | pb_ | mccarthy: yes, I suspect so. |
| 21:54.52 | pb_ | mccarthy: though probably not too bad for a small app like gpe-code. |
| 21:54.56 | pb_ | or gpe-lights even |
| 21:55.50 | mccarthy | pb_: hmmm. I guess they might even build cleanly on the ipaq cluster if I ignore the "tray.c" changes to libgpewidget |
| 21:56.10 | pb_ | yeah |
| 21:56.22 | pb_ | can you not just install a libgpewidget binary? |
| 21:56.38 | mccarthy | pb_: or I guess I could even do that :) |
| 21:56.49 | mccarthy | (locally anyhow) |
| 21:56.53 | pb_ | mccarthy: good idea! |
| 22:18.03 | pb_ | jg: by the way, I started removing some of the obsolete widgets from libgtk. This provoked a small amount of resistance from users of older packages, but by and large it seems to have worked ok. I think I might make a libgtkcruft.so that people can LD_PRELOAD as a last resort in order to get old apps going again. |
| 22:19.59 | mallum | resistance is futile |
| 22:21.23 | pb_ | mmm, it is mildly embarrassing though when we are still shipping some programs as part of the gpe2 metapackage that depend on those widgets. |
| 22:21.53 | moray | yes, I was just wondering about raising that again ;) |
| 22:21.58 | moray | who do we blame? |
| 22:22.28 | pb_ | obviously there is an easy way to make gpe2 stop requiring the widgets in question, but... |
| 22:23.18 | mallum | well it is silly if people are making gtk2 apps for a device that has so little space using unessercary stuff. .. |
| 22:23.44 | moray | pb_: if it's just the tree that's causing problems, I think gpe-conf only uses that in the unnecessary overall view? |
| 22:23.51 | pb_ | moray: ah, very possibly. |
| 22:24.03 | moray | pb_: (whereas normal users just run one pane view at a time) |
| 22:24.17 | pb_ | right. does anyone know for sure whether the individual panes still work? |
| 22:25.23 | pb_ | the other widget that was removed was GtkText, which is required by olirc and (I suspect) gpe-mail. |
| 22:25.53 | moray | pb_: is there a way to test if binaries produce use the deprecated widgets? |
| 22:26.03 | moray | (produced) |
| 22:26.06 | pb_ | If gpe-irc is ready for the big time then we can just drop olirc and that problem is solved. I don't really feel like trying to patch up olirc to use GtkTextBuffer, but I guess it could be done. |
| 22:26.07 | *** part/#gpe mccarthy (~mccarthy@granular.che.pitt.edu) |
| 22:26.18 | pb_ | moray: objdump --dynamic-reloc, look for mentions of gtk_text_new etc |
| 22:27.43 | moray | hm, CVS update seems to be failing excitingly for me :/ |
| 22:28.02 | pb_ | what kind of failure? |
| 22:28.11 | moray | (lots of "E Protocol error: 'Directory' missing" then "error: directory '/usr/cvs/gpe' not within root '/cvs'" |
| 22:28.16 | pb_ | ah |
| 22:28.33 | pb_ | sounds bad. |
| 22:28.39 | pb_ | suggest you complain to George :-) |
| 22:28.56 | moray | before that, can I check if it's just me? |
| 22:29.54 | moray | hrm, same problem on machine elsewhere actually |
| 22:30.23 | pb_ | moray: happens for me also |
| 22:33.58 | jg | pb_: sounds like a plan. have you touched base with Owen? |
| 22:34.32 | pb_ | jg: not yet on that. |
| 22:35.16 | jg | I talked about such work way back when, so it isn't impossible he might accept patches. |
| 22:36.04 | jg | He should have done this at the gtk2 transition... |
| 22:36.09 | jg | but he's young... |
| 22:36.22 | pb_ | heh |
| 22:36.50 | dc__ | jg: never an excuuse |
| 22:36.58 | pb_ | I can kind of understand him not wanting to break too many old gtk1 programs. GTK2 does do a fairly good job of discouraging you from using the really broken widgets already. |
| 22:37.19 | pb_ | What is going to be more of a problem is weaning people off stuff like GtkPixmap. |
| 22:37.33 | jg | I'm sure he'll at least accept patches to let us conditionally compile out cruft. |
| 22:37.46 | jg | pb_: yeah... |
| 22:37.54 | pb_ | jg: yeah, what I have done at the moment is added a --disable-cruft option to configure. It seems to work ok. |
| 22:42.46 | moray | pb_: although, given the number of other things that can break going from GTK1 to GTK2, I'm not sure much benefit was gained from keeping the widgets :/ |
| 22:43.37 | pb_ | moray: most other things are pretty close to source compatible. There were a few gratuitous changes that did cause breakage (the GtkToolbar thing being one of the most annoying) but the majority of programs did work with just a small amount of tweaking. |
| 22:44.12 | pb_ | whereas getting rid of GtkText and GtkTree from a program that was written to use them can be quite a substantial undertaking. |
| 22:44.48 | moray | pb_: true - although I think a lot of people are put off by e.g. the need to port Glade files |
| 22:45.27 | pb_ | moray: gpe-contacts still uses glade 1, and builds for gtk2 without any serious grief. |
| 22:45.41 | pb_ | but yes, I agree that it would tend to put people off. |
| 22:46.00 | moray | pb_: oh? people had given me the impression glade1 wasn't useful any longer, so that's interesting |
| 22:46.23 | pb_ | moray: I won't be drawn into any discussion on whether glade1 was ever actually useful. |
| 22:46.27 | moray | ha |
| 22:46.44 | pb_ | ah, cool, the gtk folks have just fixed one of the bugs I filed. |
| 22:47.25 | moray | that's good. |
| 22:47.56 | pb_ | there are plenty more still waiting though :-} |
| 22:48.55 | pb_ | jg: I guess I may as well file the --disable-cruft patch in bugzilla as well and see what Owen says. |
| 22:49.17 | jg | sure. |
| 22:55.37 | pb_ | ok, I filed #104100. |
| 22:59.47 | florian | good nicght |
| 22:59.58 | florian | s/nichgt/night |
| 23:00.09 | pigeon | woohoo! cable at home! |
| 23:00.33 | dc__ | pigeon: :D |
| 23:00.36 | pigeon | :D |
| 23:00.37 | pb_ | pigeon: cool :-) |
| 23:00.42 | pigeon | <--- windows 98 :P |
| 23:00.47 | dc__ | ! |
| 23:01.02 | pigeon | lol |
| 23:04.21 | mallum | looks like the fosdem shedule is up -> http://www.fosdem.org/index/schedule |
| 23:04.28 | pb_ | ah cool |
| 23:07.42 | mallum | pb_: did you see that post on the fam list about the mystery embedded track ? |
| 23:07.53 | pb_ | mallum: nope |
| 23:08.09 | pb_ | mallum: my mail is in disarray at the moment, something seems to have changed on the lists that broke all my filters |
| 23:08.40 | pb_ | mallum: so all my handhelds.org mail has been sprayed into my catch-all "bulk" filter, where there are 69345 messages at present. |
| 23:09.08 | mallum | pb_: ah, I cant seem to find the post now, it was some bizzare opie cross post |
| 23:09.13 | pb_ | I guess I should try to figure out what's gone wrong really |
| 23:09.19 | pb_ | ah, one of those :-) |
| 23:09.25 | mallum | pb_: I see nils has built an uber toolchain |
| 23:09.37 | pb_ | mallum: indeed |
| 23:10.04 | pb_ | jg: ah, Havoc seems to want a "more flexible option". |
| 23:10.36 | mallum | pb_: BTW speaking to sid, she said it may make more sense if dc made his way towards london to avoid you zigzaging the country |
| 23:11.36 | jg | pb_: what more flexible, either an interface is deprecated or it isn't.... |
| 23:12.23 | pb_ | jg: I guess he plans to make more interfaces deprecated in the future, or maybe he is thinking people might want to strip out non-deprecated-but-unused-in-their-application widgets. |
| 23:12.37 | dc__ | mallum: that is true |
| 23:13.45 | dc__ | mallum: I guess if there was some train I could catch to meet up with you guys it would make sense. |
| 23:13.51 | pb_ | jg: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104100 |
| 23:13.56 | dc__ | mallum: not london way, but more east. |
| 23:14.05 | mallum | dc__: I can always meet you at victoria or whatever and then we can get a train to somewhere relevant to pb's direction |
| 23:14.23 | pb_ | well, obviously the easiest thing for me would be if you all came to Cambridge :-) |
| 23:14.32 | dc__ | =P |
| 23:14.50 | cmarqu | pb_: Ah, in that case, I might reconsider. |
| 23:14.51 | mallum | pb_: your gonna come down the m1 to the m25 right ? |
| 23:14.59 | pb_ | mallum: M11, yeah |
| 23:15.11 | mallum | pb_: yeah thats the one ;-) |
| 23:15.33 | mallum | pb_: if we can get to a station near the point you hit the m25, that should be just as good right ? |
| 23:15.39 | pb_ | mallum: sure |
| 23:16.09 | pb_ | mallum: I'm not sure there are any stations in that precise area, it's pretty desolate. There's Stansted Airport, but that might be a bit too far north for you. |
| 23:16.17 | pb_ | let me check the map |
| 23:16.49 | mallum | pb_: okey |
| 23:16.53 | pb_ | mallum: it wouldn't hurt for me to go a bit further down the M11 if need me, and then back up again. |
| 23:17.47 | moray | pb_: when are the planned departure / return times, approximately, btw? (obviously it's subject to how much of a bus service needs to be done ;) |
| 23:18.44 | pb_ | mallum: so in principle you could just take the tube/train to somewhere like Blackhorse Road and I could meet you there. |
| 23:19.18 | pb_ | moray: depart around midday/early afternoon, return late evening (probably be back in Cambridge between 10pm and midnight) |
| 23:19.21 | mallum | pb_: okey, I need to hassle sid some more ( she's fallen asleep on sofa - excitement of AA cursors too much ) , shes gone down the channel chunnel lots |
| 23:19.45 | dc__ | channel chunnel :D |
| 23:20.12 | mallum | pb_: she suggested someplace the other day ... |
| 23:20.32 | pb_ | mallum: right :-) |
| 23:20.36 | dc__ | pb_: so. |
| 23:20.51 | dc__ | pb_: I guess if you can point out some train stations along the M11. |
| 23:21.05 | dc__ | pb_: I can have a look and see how easily I can get to them ;) |
| 23:21.40 | pb_ | dc__: I think any of them are going to involve you going into London and getting a train out of Liverpool Street or somewhere like that. |
| 23:21.57 | dc__ | ah true |
| 23:22.41 | mallum | dc__: can you get a train from where you are to liverpool street ? |
| 23:23.09 | mallum | dc__: or do you need to go through the tube ? |
| 23:24.28 | dc__ | Station Arr Dep Travel by Service Provider |
| 23:24.30 | dc__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:24.30 | dc__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:24.30 | dc__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:24.30 | dc__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:24.30 | dc__ | :] |
| 23:25.08 | mallum | dc__: oh you can get to london bridge easy enough though ? |
| 23:25.13 | mallum | dc__: I could meet you there |
| 23:25.26 | dc__ | sounds good. |
| 23:26.31 | mallum | dc__: liverpool street is just 5mins away for me, but victoria is a real trek :( |
| 23:27.09 | dc__ | right well |
| 23:27.18 | dc__ | pb_: where are you getting on the M11? |
| 23:27.26 | pb_ | dc__: I think it's possible to get trains going eastbound from Redhill (and you can get there by changing at Croydon) which would probably take you to somewhere like Tonbridge. But that sounds like a nightmare journey to attempt by train. |
| 23:27.38 | pb_ | dc__: the M11 runs south from Cambridge. |
| 23:27.44 | dc__ | :) |
| 23:28.18 | moray | pb_: do we need to tell dc__ where Cambridge is? ;) |
| 23:28.22 | pb_ | dc__: I get on it at a junction about 4 miles from my house, and (would expect to get) off again where it crosses the M25, just beyond Harlow. |
| 23:29.02 | mallum | dc__: its above london |
| 23:29.10 | dc__ | the map is either too far in or too far out. |
| 23:29.12 | dc__ | bah |
| 23:29.16 | pb_ | dc__: it's at about 1 o'clock on the M25 |
| 23:29.51 | pb_ | dc__: if you follow the A12 northeast from Hackney, you almost cross the M11. |
| 23:29.59 | mallum | pb_: yep |
| 23:31.07 | pb_ | dc__: as an alternative to turning onto the M25, I can go right to the end of the M11 (only about another 7 miles I think) which would put me in the badlands of north-east London. And hence an ideal place to meet you and mallum, I guess. |
| 23:31.25 | dc__ | It would seem! |
| 23:31.41 | mallum | pb_: yes that may be best me thinks |
| 23:31.46 | mallum | pb_: if its not much further |
| 23:32.14 | mallum | pb_: its easy to get here from the A12 |
| 23:32.16 | pb_ | mallum: not really. If I can avoid actually going into London, and swing back out on the A12/A127 or A13, it shouldn't be too bad. |
| 23:32.45 | mallum | pb_: and I know how to get back out again |
| 23:32.50 | pb_ | mallum: :-) |
| 23:33.09 | dc__ | right, well, I'll just make sure I have enough room in the back seat :) |
| 23:33.14 | pb_ | dc__: heh |
| 23:33.15 | mallum | pb_: just make sure you wear your kavlar vest ;-) |
| 23:33.38 | mallum | pb_: you can have a cup of tea here too |
| 23:33.45 | pb_ | mallum: certainly wouldn't drive through Wanstead without it |
| 23:34.16 | pb_ | cmarqu: you definitely should reconsider. |
| 23:34.20 | mallum | pb_: and I dont mind driving down to the chunnel if you want |
| 23:34.33 | dc__ | mallum: so I guess I should meet you at london bridge then? |
| 23:34.45 | pb_ | mallum: ah yes, that reminds me, I still haven't alerted my insurers. |
| 23:34.49 | mallum | dc__: yep and then I'll ferry you back |
| 23:34.50 | pb_ | I must do that tomorrow. |
| 23:35.12 | dc__ | mallum: :} |
| 23:35.39 | mallum | dc__: we'll get a cab though, or I'll drive down and get you |
| 23:35.40 | pb_ | ok, so, that's cool. |
| 23:35.41 | dc__ | mallum: I guess we'll let pb_ handle the easy driving then ;) |
| 23:35.57 | dc__ | mallum: hehe, right. |
| 23:36.12 | mallum | pb_: I doctor a streetmap image for you with directions |
| 23:36.19 | pb_ | mallum: cool |
| 23:36.23 | dc__ | mallum: back to your place? or at the 'pickup' in wanstead ;] |
| 23:36.34 | moray | 'X marks the spot' ? |
| 23:36.38 | pb_ | dc__: it's just as easy to make the pickup chez mallum |
| 23:37.13 | pb_ | moray: so, hopefully you don't have any exotic pick-up requirements. |
| 23:37.31 | dc__ | hehe |
| 23:37.41 | mallum | dc__: yep, back to mine for a quick game of halo ;-) |
| 23:37.49 | dc__ | mallum: now, that sounds good! |
| 23:38.09 | dc__ | pb_: make sure you take your time then. |
| 23:38.15 | pb_ | dc__: heh |
| 23:39.53 | dc__ | sleep time now. |
| 23:39.59 | pb_ | dc__: night |
| 23:40.08 | dc__ | right :) |
| 23:40.15 | dc__ | night pb_, mallum and moray. |
| 23:40.21 | mallum | gnight |
| 23:42.33 | *** join/#gpe dc_ (~dc@modem-236-59-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 23:52.52 | *** join/#gpe dc_ (~dc@modem-236-59-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 23:52.59 | dc_ | :/ |
| 23:53.05 | pb_ | heh |
