| 08:22:59 | dc_ | morning :] |
| 08:25:43 | pigeon | hmms at dc_. |
| 08:26:58 | dc_ | pigeon: man, you're always awake :) |
| 08:27:28 | pigeon | dc_: Try again say 5 hours later. :) |
| 08:27:44 | dc_ | hehe |
| 08:40:03 | mibus | yo dc_ |
| 08:40:12 | dc_ | mibus: hey man!! |
| 08:40:20 | mibus | its been forever! |
| 08:40:27 | mibus | i still havent sent yer jumper tho |
| 08:40:51 | mibus | im slacker than elastic round calista flockhart's waist ;) |
| 08:41:11 | dc_ | hah, yeah. |
| 08:41:20 | mibus | dc_: you looked @ appmgr-alpha yet |
| 08:41:21 | dc_ | no problem. |
| 08:41:29 | dc_ | mibus: no...I should :) |
| 08:41:36 | mibus | yeah definately |
| 08:41:51 | mibus | i want it to be used for gpe-fm (as i mentioned) |
| 08:41:55 | mibus | thatd be cooool :) |
| 08:42:25 | mibus | if it goes in libgpewidget we could use it as an icon selector (eg for ownerinfo's photo selector) |
| 08:43:02 | dc_ | oh cool :D |
| 08:43:19 | dc_ | oh dear.... |
| 08:43:35 | dc_ | glares at the pages of parse errors in gpeiconlist |
| 08:44:01 | mibus | gtk2 BTW :P |
| 08:44:16 | dc_ | ooooh ;p |
| 08:44:21 | mibus | anything big problem wise? it defaults to cross compiling too |
| 08:44:27 | mibus | so make NATIVE=yes GTK2=yes |
| 08:45:29 | dc_ | 10:47am ~/Development/gpe/base/gpe-appmgr-alpha: ./gpe-appmgr |
| 08:45:29 | dc_ | (gpe-appmgr:4897): Gtk-CRITICAL **: file gtkwindow.c: line 794 (gtk_window_new): assertion `type >= GTK_WINDOW_TOPLEVEL && type <= GTK_WINDOW_POPUP' failed |
| 08:45:29 | dc_ | (gpe-appmgr:4897): Gdk-CRITICAL **: file gdkwindow.c: line 624 (gdk_window_add_filter): assertion `window == NULL || GDK_IS_WINDOW (window)' failed |
| 08:45:31 | dc_ | Segmentation fault |
| 08:46:24 | mibus | do you have a GTK2 libgpewidget in ../libgpewidget? |
| 08:46:59 | mibus | tries a new streaming radio program mentioned on /. only to realist his soundcard drivers arent working... |
| 08:47:13 | dc_ | hehe, I was just doing the exact same thing now. |
| 08:47:24 | dc_ | but peercast is being lame. |
| 08:47:38 | mibus | yeah i think my ESS688 is in the wrong slot or something |
| 08:47:51 | mibus | it gets detected by isapnp but it just doesnt like being initialised |
| 08:47:55 | mibus | it says its not there ;) |
| 08:48:17 | mibus | but then again IIRC it didnt happen 'till i upgraded to woody... |
| 08:48:17 | dc_ | isa.. |
| 08:48:18 | dc_ | :/ |
| 08:48:29 | mibus | oh hey BTW dc_ ive finally gotten unlimited 'net :D |
| 08:48:37 | dc_ | woow :D |
| 08:48:42 | dc_ | so have I in my new house. |
| 08:48:49 | dc_ | mibus: finally, that's great : |
| 08:49:13 | mibus | dc_: no kidding, now all i have to worry about is 25 cents after the 5hr disconnect ;) |
| 08:49:24 | mibus | vnc has a new version, gotta check it out... |
| 08:49:34 | mibus | was just hacking on that yesterday as it happens... |
| 08:49:51 | dc_ | :] |
| 08:50:08 | dc_ | claps at his peercast web interface |
| 08:50:23 | mibus | ? |
| 08:51:08 | mibus | whats so special about the web interface? |
| 08:52:39 | dc_ | mibus: well, it looks pretty neat ;) |
| 08:52:58 | dc_ | mibus: authough it's probly be more usefull if I could work out how to operate it.. |
| 08:53:13 | mibus | hi pb_ |
| 08:53:18 | pb_ | g'day mibus |
| 08:53:28 | mibus | pb_: did you get appmgr-alpha to compile OK? dc has had issues... |
| 08:53:36 | mibus | dc_: did you check for a gtk2 libgpewidget? |
| 08:53:42 | pb_ | mibus: ah. haven't tried it yet, let me have a go now. |
| 08:54:06 | pb_ | what kind of issues is dc_ having? |
| 08:54:28 | dc_ | to many |
| 08:54:34 | pb_ | :-/ |
| 08:54:37 | mibus | lol |
| 08:54:57 | mibus | pb_: dc_ cant use a compiler if he has a makefile tattoo'd to his ibook :P |
| 08:55:10 | pb_ | mibus: it works great for me. |
| 08:55:21 | dc_ | now that's just cruel ;) |
| 08:55:35 | dc_ | hum |
| 08:55:46 | dc_ | mibus: not I compiled a gtk2 libgpewidget, and it still segs... |
| 08:56:22 | pb_ | dc_: do "ldd gpe-appmgr" |
| 08:56:27 | mibus | dc_: recompile appmgr-alpha 'make clean; make GTK2=yes NATIVE=yes' |
| 08:56:40 | mibus | and make sure the NEW gpewidget is being picked up |
| 08:56:50 | mibus | export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=../libgpewidget |
| 08:57:00 | mibus | pb_: its much faster, see ;) |
| 08:57:18 | pb_ | mibus: yeah |
| 08:57:21 | mibus | pb_: load time from start to usable is around 2s with "All" showing and a full GPE install |
| 08:57:36 | mibus | on my desktop its instantaneous once the cache has the menu files :D |
| 08:57:43 | pb_ | mibus: well, I'm just running it on my athlon at the moment, and even the old appmgr started up in virtually no time. |
| 08:57:46 | mibus | dc_: working yet? |
| 08:57:51 | pb_ | mibus: I'll try on the ipaq in a bit. |
| 08:57:53 | mibus | pb_: shhh dont tell it that :P |
| 08:58:15 | dc_ | bahh! |
| 08:58:22 | mibus | one of the biggest advantages of the new widget is that resizes are near-instantaneous |
| 08:58:25 | mibus | dc_: ? |
| 08:58:36 | dc_ | mibus: it's lookng for the icon in /usr/share/pixmaps... |
| 08:58:51 | mibus | nah-nah |
| 08:58:53 | mibus | :P |
| 08:59:02 | mibus | thats why its called appmgr-ALPHA :P |
| 08:59:08 | mibus | (that and it sounds cool ;) |
| 08:59:37 | dc_ | heeh! |
| 09:00:58 | dc_ | oooooh |
| 09:00:59 | dc_ | neato. |
| 09:01:27 | dc_ | cool |
| 09:01:32 | mibus | works then? |
| 09:01:34 | dc_ | I love the shaded clicks :) |
| 09:02:00 | jsmanrique | hi! good morning |
| 09:02:00 | dc_ | this has to go into gpe-filemanager!! |
| 09:02:02 | mibus | yeah someone (colin_werk or cmarqu IIRC) complained that they should be highlighted instead but it looks so cool... |
| 09:02:17 | mibus | dc_: yeah gpe-fm is biting slow ATM |
| 09:02:37 | mibus | dc_: also, there arent any functions in the version in unstable (lasted i looked) so its kinda useless except as a viewer... |
| 09:03:16 | pb_ | mibus: yeah, it was one of the marquardt crew. Thinking about it more, though, I think it would be dumb to deliberately reduce the contrast on all the icons, so you should leave it the way it is. |
| 09:04:07 | mibus | marquardt crew? more than one? |
| 09:04:20 | pb_ | colin_werk and cmarqu, as you said :-) |
| 09:04:28 | mibus | pb_: also, there isnt any really quick-and-simple way in gdk-pixbuf to highlight (that i can find) |
| 09:04:31 | mibus | oh ok |
| 09:04:37 | mibus | slaps head |
| 09:04:54 | jsmanrique | sorry.. what is this all about? |
| 09:05:08 | mibus | and the 50% transparency is a short-circuit evaluation, so its all on one line... |
| 09:05:09 | pb_ | new gpe-appmgr. |
| 09:05:22 | jsmanrique | ok |
| 09:05:23 | pb_ | mibus: right. |
| 09:05:45 | jsmanrique | what new things are you thinking about? |
| 09:05:56 | mibus | jsmanrique: nothing special, you got any ideas? |
| 09:06:16 | jsmanrique | mibus: not yet.. |
| 09:06:38 | jsmanrique | mibus: as you know, main problem for is its look on monochrome unit |
| 09:06:59 | mibus | pb_: im thinking of putting it into the feed next week or so, as soon as i have it handling the "clicked" signal... |
| 09:07:06 | mibus | jsmanrique: thats up to the icons... |
| 09:07:43 | mibus | brb |
| 09:07:54 | jsmanrique | mibus: the other problem is how is apps ordered.. but I think it is not a appmgr problem |
| 09:08:06 | jsmanrique | mibus: I mean, PIM, utilities,.. |
| 09:08:24 | jsmanrique | mibus: for example, why psCalc is a PIM app? |
| 09:09:00 | mibus | jsmanrique: thats up to the app author |
| 09:09:37 | jsmanrique | mibus: yes, but there aren't more choices using Familiar menu... |
| 09:10:00 | mibus | jsmanrique: thats policy and i only heard about it well after it went through... :D |
| 09:10:26 | jsmanrique | mibus: yes, I mean that policy |
| 09:11:53 | jsmanrique | mibus: where did you put an app like Xcas? Utilities? |
| 09:12:05 | mibus | i dont know, read the policy :P |
| 09:12:11 | jsmanrique | I did... |
| 09:12:20 | mibus | read it again :P |
| 09:12:24 | mibus | or ask on familiar-list |
| 09:13:36 | jsmanrique | I'll do it.. |
| 09:14:12 | jsmanrique | I've been playing with last Sony PalmOS models latest weekend.. and I like them |
| 09:14:28 | jsmanrique | gpe-appmgr is a great app.. of course |
| 09:14:42 | jsmanrique | is there any kind of wizard on it to add new apps? |
| 09:14:55 | jsmanrique | not editing some config files.. |
| 09:15:37 | pb_ | mibus: sounds cool. |
| 09:16:30 | jsmanrique | some kind of appmgr-conf that could let you add/delete items from it |
| 09:17:02 | dc_ | pim is way to generic |
| 09:17:03 | jsmanrique | adding your own icon or using a defaul one.. |
| 09:17:14 | jsmanrique | dc_: too generic I think |
| 09:18:01 | pb_ | dc_: just rename it to "Applications" in gpe-appmgr |
| 09:18:48 | dc_ | indeed. |
| 09:19:02 | jsmanrique | yes, thats a good idea.. |
| 09:19:46 | pb_ | or hassle mibus to add the ability to recategorise apps in arbitrary ways at run time. I thought we had a bug open for that, but I can't find it now. Maybe it's already fixed! |
| 09:20:20 | mibus | no neither |
| 09:20:22 | mibus | no bug, no fix |
| 09:20:28 | pb_ | ha. |
| 09:20:45 | pb_ | maybe it was just a discussion on the mailing list then. I'll try to dig it out and file it in bugzilla. |
| 09:20:49 | mibus | im planning on doing a 'favourites' list and having the ability to do some changing of menu entries |
| 09:21:00 | mibus | pb_: uh i *think* it was an IRC discussion |
| 09:21:07 | pb_ | ah. |
| 09:21:30 | mibus | the biggest issue with all this is that you can have more than one menu entry per file |
| 09:21:38 | mibus | if i didnt support that, itd be sooooo much easier |
| 09:22:00 | mibus | cos we could override a file (which is implemented) |
| 09:22:08 | mibus | and add a new one in ~/.gpe/menu (which is implemented) |
| 09:22:35 | pb_ | yeah, but that's still clumsy from the UI perspective. I wanted to be able to do all this with popup menus. |
| 09:22:58 | mibus | oh yeah for sure |
| 09:23:09 | mibus | i meant IN CODE its almost done IF we ignore multi-entry apps |
| 09:23:23 | mibus | ATM no-one uses it for GPE apps anyway... |
| 09:23:39 | mibus | only things like rotation and terminal use it and they're not in the menu anyway... |
| 09:24:05 | pb_ | true enough. |
| 09:24:10 | pb_ | well, maybe we should make a big push for .desktop. |
| 09:24:14 | mibus | :D |
| 09:24:17 | mibus | i wouldnt be against it |
| 09:24:23 | dc_ | :D |
| 09:24:23 | mibus | itd make translations easier IMHO |
| 09:24:35 | jsmanrique | I have some cross emails with a manager in HP Cupertino... |
| 09:24:45 | pb_ | hmm, looks like <1030972252.8858.12.camel@mill> was one of the mails I sent about this stuff before. |
| 09:24:54 | mibus | oh ok, cool |
| 09:25:08 | mibus | jsmanrique: oh yeah, anything interesting? |
| 09:25:11 | jsmanrique | and Linux is not in their plans for future handhelds :'( |
| 09:25:26 | jsmanrique | there will be a low cost unit, but using PocketPC |
| 09:25:38 | pb_ | well, we can easily enough start shipping .desktop files with GPE apps, rather than .menu. |
| 09:25:52 | jsmanrique | and Calypso project is closed to HP Labs.. |
| 09:25:56 | pb_ | I guess appmgr will need to go on supporting .menu at least for a little while, for the sake of legacy stuff. |
| 09:26:08 | pb_ | and someone will need to pressurise mallum into supporting .desktop in mmenu. |
| 09:26:15 | jsmanrique | did you know Calypso? A low cost handheld using Linux as OS and ChaiLX as interface |
| 09:26:24 | mibus | jsmanrique: nope |
| 09:27:02 | jsmanrique | let me search for a link with some info |
| 09:27:18 | mibus | jsmanrique: but if its low cost its sounds good ;) |
| 09:28:14 | jsmanrique | http://pdawear.com/news/article_x25_innocently_killed.htm |
| 09:29:18 | jsmanrique | mibus: but it is PocketPC |
| 09:29:40 | jsmanrique | mibus: so if Linux is ported to it, you would need to pay M$ license anyway |
| 09:30:13 | mibus | the article mentions it running linux '2.4.6 or 2.4.7' |
| 09:30:18 | dc_ | ouch |
| 09:30:29 | HET2 | hi dc |
| 09:30:39 | jsmanrique | mibus: yes, at that time |
| 09:30:42 | mibus | ah |
| 09:30:51 | jsmanrique | mibus: it can be updated to 2.4.x |
| 09:30:54 | mibus | didnt read the date :( |
| 09:31:12 | mibus | any chance of it coming round? i wouldnt mind a lower-cost handheld with that much grunt |
| 09:31:21 | jsmanrique | mibus: it is using a StrongARM processor ... and it is very similar to a ipaq3130 unit |
| 09:31:36 | mibus | 'cept half the price |
| 09:31:41 | jsmanrique | mibus: SDK comes with gcc-arm |
| 09:31:59 | jsmanrique | mibus: great isn't it? and CF reader integrated |
| 09:32:19 | mibus | yeah i had to buy one for my ipaq so i could have more than 15mins of MP3s :D |
| 09:32:27 | mibus | now i have around 4hrs of vorbis ;-) |
| 09:32:30 | dc_ | HET2: hey :) |
| 09:32:37 | dc_ | hehe |
| 09:32:39 | mibus | 128MB rocks, i just wish i could afford a 1GB microdrive... |
| 09:32:57 | jsmanrique | mibus: it is/was a marvellous units, except the ChaiLX interface (java vm) |
| 09:33:14 | mibus | looks pretty enough, isnt that all that count? ;-) |
| 09:33:28 | jsmanrique | I don't understand |
| 09:33:46 | mibus | the interface looks good, isnt that all that really matters? ;-) |
| 09:34:13 | jsmanrique | well, any app designed for it should run java... |
| 09:34:31 | jsmanrique | so it is a bit slow.. only a bit.. |
| 09:36:20 | HET2 | is there a java virtual mavhine for the ipaq yet? |
| 09:36:34 | mibus | hey theres a photo of dc_ up! |
| 09:36:37 | | somebody said dc_ was a young iPaq hacker or has an email mailto:dctanner@magenet.com or the "added pixmaps to <file>.c" changelog man or a person who loses mibus' code or http://handhelds.org/~cmarqu/dc.jpg |
| 09:36:37 | mibus | ibot: dc_? |
| 09:36:39 | dc_ | hides |
| 09:36:44 | mibus | LOL |
| 09:36:45 | pb_ | HET2: ask ibot about java. |
| 09:36:48 | dc_ | heh |
| 09:36:49 | | java is at (Link: http://www.blackdown.org)http://www.blackdown.org or at (Link: http://www.javasoft.com)http://www.javasoft.com or at (Link: http://www.savaje.com)http://www.savaje.com or at (Link: http://www.pocketlinux.com)http://www.pocketlinux.com or at (Link: http://java.sun.com)http://java.sun.com or at http://www.insignia.com |
| 09:36:49 | mibus | ibot: java? |
| 09:36:56 | mibus | ewww |
| 09:37:06 | dc_ | mibus: the code lost itself! |
| 09:37:38 | mibus | dc_: wtf? |
| 09:37:46 | HET2 | mibus: is there any gfx for java on the ipaq? |
| 09:37:50 | mibus | dc_: i think you were lost long ago my friend. purple hair indeed... |
| 09:38:03 | mibus | HET2: whatever the JVM supports i guess... |
| 09:38:22 | mibus | dc_: i think ur webcam needs adjusting... |
| 09:38:30 | dc_ | bah, that's just my web cam, honest |
| 09:38:30 | pb_ | mibus: we even have a photo of nils now. |
| 09:38:30 | mibus | dc_: and i thought MY photo looked bad |
| 09:38:34 | dc_ | yeah |
| 09:38:37 | | hmmm... pb_ is some kind of gpe hacker, mail him at mailto:pb@nexus.co.uk or to be seen on http://nexus.co.uk/company/team.html or at http://www.cyrius.com/photos/debian-uk-meet-2002/4.html |
| 09:38:37 | mibus | ibot, pb_? |
| 09:38:44 | dc_ | mibus: grease! |
| 09:38:54 | mibus | thats what mallum said |
| 09:38:54 | HET2 | mibus: somebody was saying no java gfx in opie |
| 09:38:56 | mibus | not my fault |
| 09:39:03 | mibus | was taken after a long long day |
| 09:39:05 | dc_ | mibus: ;p |
| 09:39:07 | dc_ | hehe |
| 09:39:10 | | nils is Nils Faerber <mailto:nils@kernelconcepts.de> or to be seen at http://oldenburger.linuxtage.de/lt2000/devel/pictures/meeting-026.jpg |
| 09:39:10 | dc_ | ibot nils |
| 09:39:13 | mibus | you know we have WARM WEATHER here :P |
| 09:39:21 | dc_ | lol |
| 09:39:36 | dc_ | hrm, nils was on last night wasn't he... |
| 09:39:43 | dc_ | or was it thismorning..can remember :/ |
| 09:39:58 | mibus | at least nils eats good breakfast by the looks of it... |
| 09:40:18 | pb_ | dc_: wow, was he? |
| 09:40:22 | | nils was last seen on #gpe 10 hours, 27 minutes and 43 seconds ago, saying: PaxAnima: Seems so :(( [Sat Sep 28 00:12:39 2002] |
| 09:40:22 | pb_ | ibot, seen nils? |
| 09:40:28 | pb_ | crikey, yes. |
| 09:40:51 | pb_ | that's, like, two visits from our illustrious leader in less than a week! |
| 09:41:14 | mibus | wow |
| 09:41:51 | dc_ | amazing |
| 09:41:56 | dc_ | he says he's in germany.. |
| 09:41:59 | dc_ | I think... |
| 09:42:08 | pb_ | dc_: I think he's telling the truth. |
| 09:42:09 | dc_ | can hardly remeber lest night,,,hum |
| 09:42:22 | mibus | looks at the photo of himself |
| 09:42:35 | dc_ | mibus: dear, oh dear ;] |
| 09:42:44 | mibus | ya know its not that greasy in real-life, its the fucking webcam exposure being shitty at like MIDNIGHT :P |
| 09:42:53 | pb_ | ! |
| 09:42:54 | nils | I am in Germany and yes, I am online again ;) |
| 09:43:02 | dc_ | ! |
| 09:43:04 | nils | Good morning, BTW. |
| 09:43:08 | mibus | dc_: i may not be photogenic but at least i dont have purple hair... and i can code! :P |
| 09:43:09 | dc_ | mibus: yeah, yea,,,we all know :D |
| 09:43:11 | dc_ | mibus: :D |
| 09:43:14 | dc_ | nils: :) |
| 09:43:15 | mibus | hey nils |
| 09:43:23 | dc_ | mibus: ooh! |
| 09:43:51 | jsmanrique | there was one of you who came to Sevilla for GUADEC, didn't you? |
| 09:43:59 | nils | Does someone knwo where to find Rus Nelson's atd sources? AFAIK they are not in hh.org CVS. |
| 09:44:17 | nils | jsmanrique: That was me, yes. |
| 09:44:21 | mibus | dc_: i 'tested' my new link by downloading eclipse (eclipse.org, check it out) and all of the available mutant x trailers starting at ep. 5 :D |
| 09:44:26 | pb_ | nils: There are _some_ atd sources in CVS, but I don't know if they are the latest. |
| 09:44:27 | mibus | has to go soon |
| 09:44:39 | jsmanrique | nils: you talked about gpe, didn't you? |
| 09:44:41 | dc_ | mibus: oh cool!! |
| 09:44:47 | nils | jsmanrique: Yep :) |
| 09:44:50 | dc_ | mibus: where'd you get the episodes from? |
| 09:45:39 | jsmanrique | nils: I will give a speak in natinal linux congress next November... did you use any OpenOffice or similar presentation? |
| 09:46:41 | nils | jsmanrique: I used Magicpoint. |
| 09:47:55 | jsmanrique | nils: is there a way you could send it to me... |
| 09:48:20 | nils | jsmanrique: Sure, by email for example, but they are way out of date now. |
| 09:49:03 | jsmanrique | nils: it is just to take a look on it, I have written my doc, but I am still working in my presentation |
| 09:54:18 | mibus | dc_: TRAILERS, mutantx.net |
| 09:56:50 | dc_ | ahh :) |
| 09:57:38 | nils | jsmanrique: If your email address is correct you should have a tarball in your inbox now :) |
| 09:58:50 | jsmanrique | nils: use jsmanrique_lopez@yahoo.es instead.. |
| 10:00:09 | nils | jsmanrique: Should be there too now :) |
| 10:01:07 | jsmanrique | nils: yes, here it is.. thanks |
| 10:05:13 | mibus | dc_: hows stuff, anyway? |
| 10:05:18 | dc_ | mibus: alright. |
| 10:05:19 | mibus | dc_: and dont say 'purple' :P |
| 10:05:24 | mibus | dc_: any good hacking? |
| 10:05:26 | dc_ | mibus: lots of school lately though |
| 10:05:46 | mibus | dc_: yeah ive got four assignments due first week back at uni (ie just over a week away) |
| 10:05:57 | mibus | dc_: any gpe-fm progress? |
| 10:06:12 | mibus | dc_: oh hey did i ever send you my evo2gpe.py? |
| 10:07:37 | pb_ | mibus: you should merge that thing with the code in gpe-beam. |
| 10:07:46 | mibus | pb_: no, its very evil ;) |
| 10:08:07 | mibus | pb_: its a python script that uses libdb to read evo's contacts.db file and write out SQL statements... |
| 10:08:20 | pb_ | mibus: well, yeah, what I _really_ meant was that you should work on the vcard importer. |
| 10:08:27 | mibus | pb_: you! :P |
| 10:08:29 | dc_ | mibus: not much....no send it... |
| 10:08:30 | pb_ | mibus: I've seen your script, you sent it to me a couple of months ago :-) |
| 10:08:36 | mibus | pb_: i remember |
| 10:08:41 | mibus | pb_: im working on a few things ATM |
| 10:08:50 | pb_ | fair enough. |
| 10:08:53 | mibus | pb_: alas, one of the time consuming ones is uni :( |
| 10:09:00 | dc_ | indeed... |
| 10:09:08 | pb_ | yes. |
| 10:09:16 | mibus | pb_: tell ya what, get me a decent uni degree and ill hack whatever you want :D |
| 10:09:37 | pb_ | ha! |
| 10:09:52 | pb_ | sadly I think that's beyond my powers. |
| 10:10:02 | mibus | pb_: im doing appmgr-alpha, obviously, ive got a bunch of 'bits' to do, and ive got a mini start on something dc will kill for if i ever get it past a main() ;) |
| 10:10:12 | pb_ | heh. |
| 10:10:18 | mibus | pb_: awwww. i saw ur name today in the kernel docs, didnt know you worked on nwfpe |
| 10:10:49 | pb_ | mibus: yeah, we all have a few skeletons in the closet. :-} |
| 10:10:55 | mibus | pb_: i was browsing the docs while waiting for a kernel to compile on my P233 ;) |
| 10:11:02 | mibus | pb_: whats so bad with it anyway? |
| 10:11:06 | nils | mibus: I always get this spam: "Get your diploma now! No questions asked!" Maybe we should try this fpor you ;) ? |
| 10:11:20 | mibus | nils: hey yeah i get that alot at hotmail, good idea |
| 10:11:32 | pb_ | mibus: well... everything, really. |
| 10:11:42 | mibus | nils: though if "no questions" means they dont ask my name, its not really worth it... |
| 10:12:16 | mibus | pb_: really? i only knew performance was not good and there was some issue with f4 (IIRC ?) |
| 10:12:22 | mibus | pb_: but other than that... |
| 10:12:52 | nils | mibus: That's your problem: If you don't tell them your name before thenyou get the anonymous diploma :] |
| 10:12:56 | pb_ | mibus: anything that helps to perpetuate the FPA instruction set is something of a crime against humanity. |
| 10:13:12 | mibus | pb_: really? whys it so bad? any URLs? |
| 10:14:15 | mibus | pb_: or is it just 'one of those things' ;) |
| 10:14:55 | pb_ | mibus: it's a good example of what happens when you let a temporary hack get out of hand. |
| 10:15:07 | mibus | pb_: ahhhh |
| 10:15:15 | mibus | pb_: any more info than that or do i have to guess? :P |
| 10:15:46 | pb_ | mibus: no modern silicon can actually execute FPA code directly, so the instructions must always be emulated; the cpu takes the undefined instruction trap and the kernel has to pick up the pieces, which is desperately slow. |
| 10:16:03 | mibus | pb_: hmmm i read something about that I think... |
| 10:16:16 | mibus | pb_: whys it so bad other than speed? |
| 10:16:24 | dc_ | converts all his mp3s to oggs |
| 10:16:42 | mibus | dc_: no, dont |
| 10:16:43 | dc_ | mibus: btw, man there's some strange music in the collection you have me ;] |
| 10:16:43 | pb_ | mibus: 64-bit numbers (ie doubles) are stored in this wacky format that's half big endian and half little endian. Thus, at a stroke, data is incompatible with both big and little endian implementations on other platforms. |
| 10:16:48 | dc_ | mibus: ! |
| 10:16:52 | mibus | dc_: lossy to lossy sucks |
| 10:16:56 | dc_ | mibus: it must be done.....! |
| 10:16:59 | mibus | dc_: just rip NEW stuff as ogg |
| 10:17:01 | dc_ | mibus: indeed... |
| 10:17:04 | dc_ | mibus: but for now. |
| 10:17:09 | dc_ | mibus: I have all the cd's. |
| 10:17:20 | mibus | dc_: i transcode to -q-1 vorbis for my ipaq tho, 250kb per minute :D |
| 10:17:32 | dc_ | not lousy, hehee |
| 10:17:35 | dc_ | in the slightest. |
| 10:17:40 | pb_ | mibus: for historical reasons, there is no support for 96-bit or 128-bit long doubles (RISC iX used to crash if you enabled them) |
| 10:17:44 | mibus | pb_: ah, the old 'middle-endian' format... |
| 10:18:04 | mibus | dc_: anything in particular 'strange'? |
| 10:18:14 | pb_ | mibus: and it is essentially impossible to select the rounding mode at runtime: it's encoded into each instruction. |
| 10:18:21 | dc_ | mibus: s club seven |
| 10:18:23 | mibus | dc_: i bought a 40GB HDD off a guy, had ~12GB of mp3s, now THAT had a strange collection |
| 10:18:30 | dc_ | ahhh |
| 10:18:34 | mibus | dc_: ah, ok. part of a 'various' CD |
| 10:18:38 | dc_ | hehe |
| 10:18:43 | mibus | dc_: i rip CDs at a time if i like two or three songs |
| 10:18:48 | mibus | dc_: beats being picky ;) |
| 10:18:57 | mibus | dc_: given its like 20min to rip & encode D: |
| 10:18:57 | mibus | :D |
| 10:19:08 | mibus | pb_: ew, thats really bad |
| 10:19:23 | pb_ | mibus: indeed. |
| 10:20:33 | pb_ | mibus: oh, and finally, the FPA instruction encoding overlaps with the instruction space that cpu vendors are starting to use for other things. So there will come a time when you just can't run FPA-using programs on newer processors. |
| 10:21:02 | mibus | pb_: oooh, evil |
| 10:21:13 | mibus | pb_: is any of this fixed in xscale? |
| 10:21:26 | pb_ | mibus: what do you mean? |
| 10:21:28 | mibus | pb_: or is it some bizarro linux thing and not ARM specific? |
| 10:21:34 | pb_ | mibus: it's just a software issue. |
| 10:21:40 | mibus | pb_: ah ok |
| 10:21:43 | pb_ | mibus: pretty much a bizarro linux thing. |
| 10:21:50 | mibus | pb_: so is nwfpe being used still? |
| 10:21:57 | pb_ | mibus: yes. |
| 10:23:17 | mibus | pb_: isnt there a better alternative?? |
| 10:23:20 | pb_ | mibus: I guess at the time nwfpe was written, it didn't seem so bad. Back then, it wasn't quite so clear that the wheels were going to fall off the FPA bandwagon, and there was an immediate problem that needed solving, namely that the only floating point support available was the King closed-source emulator. |
| 10:23:35 | pb_ | mibus: yes, there is: floating point via libcalls. |
| 10:24:09 | mibus | pb_: hmm, why isnt the libcalls thing used then? |
| 10:24:16 | pb_ | mibus: historical inertia. |
| 10:24:30 | mibus | pb_: fair 'nuff |
| 10:24:31 | pb_ | mibus: every binary would have to be recompiled. |
| 10:24:35 | mibus | pb_: any chance of change? |
| 10:24:44 | pb_ | mibus: yes, Debian 3.1 |
| 10:24:50 | mibus | pb_: i mean, familiar is going to be from-source by 0.7 IIRC anyway... |
| 10:25:27 | pb_ | mibus: familiar could technically switch at any time, but politically I don't think they want to be out on their own with a binary format nobody else uses. |
| 10:25:31 | mibus | pb_: all them binary-only commercial software ppl will be mad ;-) |
| 10:25:43 | dc_ | heh |
| 10:25:52 | mibus | dc_: ? |
| 10:25:54 | pb_ | mibus: yes indeed, Harlekin spits venom every time this is mentioned :-) |
| 10:26:01 | mibus | harlekin? |
| 10:26:05 | pb_ | Max. |
| 10:26:20 | pb_ | One of the Opie guys. |
| 10:26:29 | mibus | ahhh |
| 10:27:49 | mibus | someone should port gtk+ to qtfb or whatever they call the GUI backend layer, heheh |
| 10:28:13 | pb_ | mibus: there's already a directfb port, you can run GTK+ without X if the mood takes you. |
| 10:28:25 | mibus | pb_: i meant so you can run gtk+ apps under opie :D |
| 10:28:30 | nils | mibus: Why that? Then we should rather use GTKFB or DirectFB. |
| 10:28:49 | mibus | nils |
| 10:28:53 | mibus | nils: joke |
| 10:28:55 | pb_ | mibus: I would rather see qcop ported to X, so that we can run opie apps under GPE. |
| 10:29:22 | dc_ | :/ |
| 10:30:30 | pb_ | mibus: have you made any progress on that alarm support code you were going to write, by the way? |
| 10:30:35 | mibus | dc_: awww, why dont we port gtk+ and pygtk to opie, so you can run storm under opie :P |
| 10:30:47 | dc_ | oh.....yeahhhh.... |
| 10:30:54 | mibus | pb_: not had a chance to do so much as download atd yet :-( |
| 10:30:56 | dc_ | what...a...er....great..idea mibus |
| 10:31:03 | pb_ | mibus: :-( |
| 10:31:12 | mibus | :/ |
| 10:31:18 | mibus | pb_: you wanna do it instead? :P |
| 10:31:24 | pb_ | mibus: mccarthy is adding all kinds of ghastly stuff to gpe-calendar to make it talk to atd directly :-/ |
| 10:31:31 | mibus | pb_: aaargh |
| 10:31:38 | mibus | pb_: make him do it then |
| 10:31:43 | pb_ | mibus: he won't. |
| 10:32:27 | mibus | pb_: why not?? |
| 10:32:36 | pb_ | mibus: he will just refuse. |
| 10:32:44 | mibus | pb_: if the gpe-calendar stuff is in CVS it makes it easier for me at least... |
| 10:32:54 | mibus | pb_: why on earth would he do that??? |
| 10:33:19 | pb_ | mibus: I think he feels that the code in gpe-calendar is "good enough". |
| 10:33:29 | mibus | gah |
| 10:33:33 | mibus | oh well |
| 10:33:34 | mibus | hmm |
| 10:33:35 | mibus | thinks |
| 10:33:46 | PaxAnima | isn't doing atd directly kinda stupid? or he is he doing it until the libgpe-alarm is ready? |
| 10:33:57 | mibus | well if its simple enough i should be able to have a look, uhh.... hmm... |
| 10:34:03 | pb_ | yay |
| 10:34:13 | mibus | if im not doing anything tomorrow that'd be OK but i dont know whats happening yet |
| 10:34:17 | pb_ | still, we also have to wait for nils to fix the midnight bug before we can really use it. |
| 10:34:21 | mibus | if not tomorrow, monday night is looking likely |
| 10:34:26 | pb_ | righto. |
| 10:34:28 | mibus | pb_: the x86 remnant? |
| 10:34:32 | pb_ | yeah. |
| 10:34:40 | mibus | pb_: ok soudns cool |
| 10:34:46 | mibus | pb_: oh is atd in CVS or what? |
| 10:34:47 | pb_ | I don't really know what the issues are there, it might literally be just a case of deleting some code. |
| 10:35:05 | pb_ | mibus: like I was saying to nils earlier, there are some atd sources in the hh.org repository, but I dunno if they are up to date. |
| 10:35:12 | nils | pb_: I hope so too. The 24h wakeup is not needed on ARM. |
| 10:35:23 | mibus | pb_: ok ill check them out now, and look over them tomorrow if i get time... |
| 10:35:29 | dc_ | is bored... |
| 10:35:50 | pb_ | mibus: in particular, the sources in cvs don't seem to support multiple users. |
| 10:35:52 | mibus | plays a 2p game of frozen-bubble with dc_ |
| 10:35:56 | mibus | pb_: eww |
| 10:36:02 | dc_ | mibus: w00t! |
| 10:36:10 | mibus | pb_: well unless the interfaces have changed it should be OK for what i want anyway... |
| 10:36:13 | pb_ | cool. |
| 10:36:18 | mibus | dc_: hey you should add tcp code to f-b :D |
| 10:36:26 | pb_ | somebody should make a shrunk frozen-bubble for the ipaq. |
| 10:36:32 | dc_ | mibus: defently! |
| 10:36:32 | mibus | pb_: ssshhhhh |
| 10:36:36 | dc_ | mibus: :D |
| 10:36:38 | mibus | pb_: thats what i was doing today :P |
| 10:36:43 | pb_ | oops :-} |
| 10:36:49 | mibus | pb_: its just i suck at coding so it takes forever :D |
| 10:36:53 | pb_ | heh. |
| 10:37:00 | mibus | pb_: ive gotten a gtkwindow and gtkdrawingarea |
| 10:37:09 | mibus | pb_: and an expose cb that does nothing yet ;) |
| 10:37:16 | dc_ | f-b ownz! |
| 10:37:23 | pb_ | mibus: well, from tiny acorns and all that. |
| 10:37:32 | pb_ | dc_: quite. |
| 10:38:49 | nils | BTW: How do I properly update our web pages? Just in CVS and they are copied over at some point automatically |
| 10:38:53 | mibus | pb_: yes. alas, this machine doest have cvs yet :( |
| 10:39:08 | mibus | nils: yeah theres a script to force an update, but i cant remember where... |
| 10:39:09 | pb_ | nils: you have to log in to handhelds.org and run the website-update script. |
| 10:39:16 | pb_ | in /home/gpe |
| 10:39:17 | mibus | ok im going now, ciao all |
| 10:39:31 | pb_ | bye mibus |
| 10:39:35 | nils | mibus: Bye! |
| 10:40:01 | mibus | pb_: btw cvs's apps/atd is 11 months old, and is the same as 0.51 (apparently) |
| 10:40:04 | nils | pb_: TNX, couldn't there be a cron job for it? |
| 10:40:32 | dc_ | bye..... |
| 10:44:33 | dc_ | ponders. |
| 10:44:35 | dc_ | bah. |
| 10:44:48 | dc_ | don't you just hate it when...you feel bored...but there's so much to do. |
| 10:45:44 | nils | dc_: Yep ... know that too from time to time. For me it usually happens when there is too much to do... you don't know anymore where to start :( |
| 10:49:07 | dc_ | nils: my exact problem... |
| 10:49:52 | nils | dc_: The only thing that helps: Kick your own butt and start *somewhere*, really does not matter where. The rest will come back then :) |
| 10:50:12 | nils | I cannot find atd in hh.org CVS root. Is it in some subproject? |
| 10:53:56 | nils | OK, found atd, in the apps subdir, but it is a very old initial checkin only :(( |
| 10:56:01 | HET2 | nils: if you find it pls tell me |
| 10:56:06 | HET2 | i was looking for it the other day |
| 10:56:17 | HET2 | successless |
| 10:58:46 | nils | HET2: Like I said, it is in apps/atd, but very old :( |
| 10:58:58 | nils | Do you know where uschedule and friends live? |
| 11:02:14 | HET2 | wish i did |
| 11:03:50 | dc_ | hum |
| 11:03:55 | dc_ | maby some tea wil help |
| 11:04:17 | pb_ | dc_: :-/ |
| 11:04:32 | pb_ | dc_: I have that problem too at the moment. |
| 11:04:59 | pigeon | hmms. |
| 14:44:18 | nils_ | If I see it right the atd problem could be solved by commenting about six lines of code... |
| 14:45:11 | nelson | nils_ found the atd sources, and I updated them to latest-n-greatest (which I never made a .ipk out of) |
| 14:46:24 | nelson | nils_: Could very well be. It's mostly a matter of not forcing a midnight wakeup. |
| 14:46:48 | nelson | nils_: but instead simply allowing the alarm to be set by the next alarm. |
| 14:47:03 | nelson | nils_: you might also have to copy over the date. I'm pretty sure that I'm only copying over the time of day. |
| 15:01:28 | nils_ | nelson: Err ... yes ;) Have you had a look at uschedule? It also seems to be very powerful... Oh, maybe silly question, which "at" command do you use with your atd? It is not in the CVS I think... |
| 15:08:47 | nelson | it's in ./dist/usr/bin/at |
| 15:09:08 | nelson | yeah, but look at the size of uschedule vs atd. |
| 15:09:28 | nelson | and uschedule *just* manages the files. It knows nothing about alarms. |
| 15:10:07 | wizly | hi |
| 15:10:33 | nils_ | nelson: The lack of alarms is my impression now too ;) I just had my first look at it. |
| 15:10:45 | nils_ | Hi wizly! |
| 15:10:56 | wizly | :) |
| 15:12:32 | nelson | nils_: updated the README, btw. |
| 15:12:54 | nelson | nils_: I forgot to make a note about holding the hw clock open all the time. |
| 15:13:06 | nelson | is away: outside chores |
| 15:48:42 | nils_ | is away: I'm busy |
| 17:05:36 | alexksso | is away: dodo/visite/weekend |
| 17:17:39 | dc_ | evening |
| 17:21:50 | MasterRa | hello all. |
| 17:22:01 | MasterRa | can anyone in here tell me how to install GPE? |
| 17:22:05 | MasterRa | or help me with it, rather? |
| 17:22:46 | dc_ | hum |
| 17:22:52 | dc_ | MasterRa: what's up? |
| 17:23:16 | MasterRa | nothing much |
| 17:23:25 | MasterRa | i need some help installing GPE on my iPaq |
| 17:23:33 | dc_ | what's the problem? |
| 17:23:50 | MasterRa | well, i just don't understand what to do, pretty much :) i've tried a few things, but i get weird results |
| 17:23:59 | MasterRa | i've got familiar linux installed and booting to an X session |
| 17:24:21 | MasterRa | and i'm not really sure where to go from there. I tried adding the gpe ftp to my ipkg conf |
| 17:24:29 | MasterRa | and then tried installing task-gpe |
| 17:24:56 | MasterRa | but it say's i need gtk (i think that's it) but i don't know how to get it.. i thought it was already installed.. |
| 17:25:31 | MasterRa | so i forced the install of task-gpe.. and i'm waiting for it to finish to see what i get. I already messed up once and had to start over from the begining (reinstalling the familiar root filesystem).. so i'm not sure what i need to do, basically :) |
| 17:27:32 | MasterRa | ? |
| 17:29:04 | MasterRa | hmm.. anyone around? |
| 17:31:14 | MasterRa | is that a no? |
| 17:54:18 | jsmanrique | hi! |
| 19:07:51 | nils_ | is back (gone 03:19:07) |
| 20:06:08 | mallum | bonjour |
| 20:06:51 | nils_ | mallum: Bonne nui would be more appropriate ;) |
| 20:07:25 | mallum | hello nils_ today I have been to france you see |
| 20:08:04 | nils_ | mallum: New project in F? |
| 20:10:25 | mallum | nils_: no cheap booze, fags, food run |
| 20:10:53 | nils_ | mallum: Oh, also nice anyway :) |
| 20:12:17 | mallum | nils_: My girlfriend got some cheap eurostar tickets from the newspaper |
| 20:20:19 | cmartin | hi |
| 20:20:33 | cmartin | just trying stic on my handheld out |
| 20:21:33 | cmartin | noone here |
| 20:21:42 | cmartin | by |
| 21:43:15 | __moray_ | hm, strange - the network connection in my room has started working properly while I was out |
| 22:04:39 | HET2 | haha |
| 23:22:44 | nils_ | jg: Him Jim ;) |
| 23:22:59 | nils_ | jg: Any news about the TTF fonts? |
| 23:37:21 | nelson | nils_: you mean the ones he had gotten a line on? |
| 23:37:42 | nelson | is back |
| 23:46:22 | nils_ | nelson: yes ... |
| 23:55:55 | nelson | god dag, PaxAnima |
| 23:56:30 | PaxAnima | morn ;) |
| 23:57:14 | PaxAnima | nelson: where did you pick up norwegian? |
| 23:58:20 | nelson | min bestemor or bestefar er Norsk. |
| 23:58:31 | PaxAnima | ah.... |
| 23:58:47 | nelson | so I picked up a little. Enough to form crude sentences. |
| 23:59:08 | PaxAnima | I'm impressed... ;) |
| 23:59:20 | PaxAnima | hvor i norge er de fra? |
| 23:59:33 | nelson | Can't follow a conversation at all, which my parents used to great advantage while talking about Christmas presents in front of me. |
| 23:59:48 | PaxAnima | ah... nice tactic ;) |
| 23:59:52 | nelson | Stavanger. |
