IRC log for #gllug on 20120917

09:32.02*** join/#gllug ess_tee_u (~NULL@94-30-86-45.xdsl.murphx.net)
09:37.32ChoHagOh for god's sake.
09:37.56ChoHagCan we find anybody who's ever written a web browser and shoot them?
09:38.35yaMattwhat is it this time?
09:38.44ChoHagFucking chrome store.
09:39.29ChoHag"You must go to this place and find a button which is not there, even though in order to display this message I know exactly what you are trying to do, we are google and you will see ads first."
09:42.24ChoHagCan't any of them just browse the web and get out of the fucking way?
09:42.36ChoHagI mean honestly. Fuck Off With Your Shit.
09:43.25yaMattusability is something I belive Google has been seriously over-looking for the last 2 years
09:45.07yaMattproblem is. How do you report a bug like that? I reported one once for chromium where in some situations you couldn't use the keyboard for a drop down list
09:45.32yaMattand it got closed after 6 months because it was 3 versions old
09:48.54ChoHagEvery response from Google to the various usability bugs I've encountered has been met like an Appletard.
09:49.02ChoHag"It's better this way."
09:50.19ChoHag"There's a bit invisible button which appears to lose all your bookmarks."
09:50.33ChoHag"Ah but that switches to another thing which lets us show you ads. You'll like it!"
09:50.41ChoHags/bit/big/
10:13.25yaMatt"For more information about using string resources to localize your app for other languages, see the Supporting Different Devices class."
10:13.43yaMattyes because that is clearly where Languages should go
10:36.41ChoHagsighs
10:36.47ChoHagldap_bind: Invalid credentials (49)
10:36.58ChoHag=> slap_access_allowed: auth access granted by auth(=xd)
10:40.07yaMattheheh
10:40.15yaMattinvalid error
10:42.10ChoHag-v     Run  in  verbose mode, with many diagnostics written to standard output.
10:42.21ChoHagI think their definition of 'many' and mind are not the same.
10:42.37ChoHagAdding -v changed this:
10:42.43ChoHagEnter LDAP Password:
10:42.43ChoHagldap_bind: Invalid credentials (49)
10:42.46ChoHagTo this:
10:42.53ChoHagldap_initialize( ldap://localhost )
10:42.55ChoHagEnter LDAP Password:
10:42.55ChoHagldap_bind: Invalid credentials (49)
10:43.06ChoHagHOLY FUCK NOW I CAN SEE WHAT'S WRONG!
10:45.08yaMattheheh
10:55.01z00daxthere did...
10:55.39yaMattz00dax, huh?
10:56.16z00daxoops :)
11:03.52yaMattI want to know now! :)
11:04.03yaMattwhat did you do?
11:04.40z00daxlost a short network cable
11:04.48z00daxnow i need to find a mini gbic -> rj45 interface :/
11:06.03yaMattsecond hand server rails are looking like their going to be more expensive than the second hand servers
11:06.36yaMattbit of metal with holes in it. They're not that hard to build
11:07.35AndyMillarwhy would you buy second hand servers?
11:07.47z00daxnew machines are expensive!
11:07.56AndyMillarold machines are power inefficient
11:08.14AndyMillar(and new machines aren't expensive)
11:08.43z00daxin my case, i need 2 machines to use as a development cloud instance
11:08.59z00daxgetting 2 laptops from ebay are far more practical than 2 R715 :)
11:09.33AndyMillarheh, buying a couple of supermicro servers are still pretty cheap
11:10.16AndyMillarthey're at the throw-away money level
11:13.31ChoHagProbably they've been thrown away.
11:15.22ChoHagWhat is required in an ldap entry for it to be used in a bind?
11:27.55ChoHagNever mind.
11:28.17ChoHagSomething, probably the bit that's written in PHP, was choking because my password uses spaces.
11:28.34ChoHagI don't even want to think about that so I'm going to lunch.
11:31.18z00daxAndyMillar: what do you classify as throw-awa... i need 2 physcially different machines, with hvm capabilities 2 cores atleast, 4gb of ram and 100+gb of disk
11:32.24AndyMillaryou could trivially do that for about 350 a pop
11:37.23z00daxi can get an i5/4gb laptop for 350 a pop :)
11:37.36z00daxor i can get i3 based second hand laptops for 150 or so each
11:42.13yaMattAndyMillar, I would say £40 vs £400 quite efficient
11:42.19yaMattis*
11:43.11z00daxbt, £350 for a proper server grade machine rackable is rather enticing
11:43.15z00daxs/bt/but/
11:43.24z00daxibot: well done
11:43.24ibotACTION takes the torch from z00dax and passes it to zeroXten
11:43.27AndyMillarquite :-p
11:43.32yaMattbut that is the minimum
11:43.41AndyMillaryaMatt: how power efficient are they?
11:43.46yaMattmeh
11:44.20z00daxi can say this - a dual supply dell pe 1850 + a dl360 g4, replaced by a single dell R710
11:44.24AndyMillarmy DL140 costs ~140/month to run in power... but they're cheap to buy, right? ;)
11:44.34z00daxgot me like 4 times more capacity, much more ram and disk - and half the electric
11:44.41yaMattso 3 years and i've broken even
11:44.50z00daxwent from 2.1A to 1.1a of usage
11:45.08z00daxAndyMillar: wow, 140 a month ??
11:45.14AndyMillarz00dax: 1.2A power ;()
11:45.38yaMattyeah. wait. a month? is it a bloody kettle?
11:45.42AndyMillaryaMatt: it's about 6 months ROI
11:45.55AndyMillarto replace it with something like a R210
11:48.54yaMattAndyMillar, I think your electricty supply has a leak :)
11:49.23AndyMillaryaMatt: nope :-p
11:51.40yaMattLondon Hack Space has a whole bunch of old servers switches, a lazer cutter, tools, everyone plugging their laptops in, their monthly electricty bill is £300pm
11:51.44yaMatthttp://londonhackspace.github.com/propaganda/posters/cost-of-hacking/
11:52.07AndyMillaryaMatt: I run a colo company - this is in an actual rack in a datacenter :-p
11:52.47yaMattbut just cannot account for the 2 figures
11:52.53AndyMillarwhich ones?
11:53.29yaMattthat it costs you for one server half of what the entire LHS uses
11:54.46AndyMillarhttp://www.goscomb.net/hosting/colocation
11:55.03AndyMillarthere you go, 0.5A  is 108/month
11:55.21AndyMillarso, if I colo'd with goscomb, it'd cost me about 220/month
11:55.30AndyMillar(welcome to the colo market :-))
11:55.49yaMattah, I see so for that you get internet, and AC and IPs and all sorts
11:56.19yaMattessentially you're paying per amp which means you do need to worry about power consumption
11:56.39yaMattit's important to get more power for less amps
11:56.59AndyMillaryes, though the main driving factor in colo costs is power
11:57.11yaMattcertainly
11:57.41yaMattsome of the colo I'd seen in the US was down to 30USD per month
11:58.00yaMattI guess space is more of a premium here
11:58.14AndyMillars/space/power/
11:58.48yaMattelectricity is more expensive here?
11:59.32z00daxwoah
11:59.35AndyMillarno idea, but space isn't an issue (the limit in the suite I'm in now, for example, is 72KVA and there's no way to actually fill the space)
11:59.43z00daxcomapring US and UK electric prices isnt even worth doing
11:59.55z00daxmost people in the US actually dont sell electric at all
12:00.23z00daxtalking to USPw and their San Jose facility - i asked how much power do we get per rack and they were like 'dunno dude, you use whatever you use'
12:03.32yaMattheheh
12:05.33yaMattso £405 ex. VAT for the same amount of memory but a newer machine
12:05.59yaMattcall it £450
12:06.01AndyMillar7~/win 24
12:07.17halior you can get an ovh kimsufi box for 35 quid a month :-)
12:08.08yaMattwell if you're going Atom why not ARM?
12:08.09AndyMillarhali: but then you don't own your data :)
12:10.36halineither do you in the uk
12:10.47halibut i guess you can deny having it
12:11.00halii have nothing to hide though, so im not bothered with the frenchies sniffing around
12:20.28AndyMillarI don't like not owning the disks my data i son
12:20.30AndyMillaris on&*
12:22.54yaMattthat's the cost trade-off I guess
13:08.10yaMattanyone have any suggestions about getting rid of working but sort of old computers?
13:08.39yaMattlike I have a 3 year old desktop that was cheap so it's kind of underpowered, but it's new enough that it would be useable by someone
13:08.47yaMatteven if it's giving it to an old peoples home
13:08.52yaMattor something
13:18.55ChoHag"Well fuck this Ubuntu shit, let's try another one .... Fedora."
13:19.06ChoHagInstall CD crashes on boot.
13:20.19yaMatthahah
13:20.28yaMattyou never have much luck with these things
13:24.43ChoHagComputers hate me.
13:24.50ChoHagWhy do I keep coming back?
13:44.17yaMattsucker for punishment
14:02.55AndyMillarChoHag: just use RHEL and be done with it
14:03.08ChoHagOn a desktop?
14:03.37ChoHagI need a VM to run all the shit I don't want to contaminate my main system with.
14:03.45ChoHagThings that need Gnome and all that bollocks.
14:04.02AndyMillarI use RHEL on my desktops
14:36.14yaMatthow does that work with the subscriptions?
14:36.24yaMattdo they give you a desktop rate?
14:36.41AndyMillaryes
14:36.49AndyMillarit's something silly like $49/year per machine
14:50.01yaMattthat's pretty reasonable
14:54.09AndyMillarindeed
14:54.20ChoHagIs it worth it?
14:54.29ChoHagWhat does 50 dollars get you that centos doesn't?
14:54.40halioracle linux, free too... and patches on time
14:54.55AndyMillarno idea
14:55.38halithe only thing the 49 usd gives us is possibly consistency across machines
15:03.33yaMattsome level of support too I hope
15:04.00AndyMillarfor $49? I'd hope not
15:04.42yaMattwell if you had 100 machines that's not an unreasonable amount of money for support
15:04.51yaMattdoesn't look like there is any though
15:10.40ChoHagWell I don't know what it's doing, but the time field of the master udev process is 21133334:39
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