| 00:19:11 | esalazar | ho |
| 00:19:14 | esalazar | I mean hi. |
| 00:19:47 | water | hi |
| 00:19:53 | water | you're at UW? |
| 00:20:21 | esalazar | I've read a few places that it is possible to have 32MB of flash memory. I haven't however seen this as an option on a retail unit. Is this an upgrade option? |
| 00:20:30 | esalazar | water: just graduated in june. You? |
| 00:20:38 | water | i live just south of downtown |
| 00:20:46 | water | no i'm between schools right now |
| 00:20:54 | jacques | esalazar: 32MB flash is just luck |
| 00:20:55 | esalazar | cool. |
| 00:21:16 | esalazar | jacques: Luck? Like some people just magically have 32MB? |
| 00:21:21 | water | learns how to use minicom |
| 00:21:43 | jacques | esalazar: exactly |
| 00:22:07 | esalazar | Wow. That seems very strange. |
| 00:23:00 | esalazar | Is it not possible to perform an upgrade? |
| 00:23:14 | jacques | esalazar: not really. at one point they ran out of 16MB parts and had to use 32MB parts |
| 00:23:35 | jacques | esalazar: yes, an upgrade is possible - there is a company in the US which will do it |
| 00:23:45 | esalazar | url? |
| 00:24:10 | esalazar | If it is cheap it would be worth it. |
| 00:24:16 | esalazar | relatively cheap |
| 00:24:24 | water | hm |
| 00:24:33 | water | yeah that would be cool |
| 00:24:36 | jacques | dunno how much it costs |
| 00:25:31 | jacques | http://www.times2tech.com/ |
| 00:25:34 | esalazar | Is there serious work being done on the evolution port to ipaq? I read about it on handhelds. Or is that just an idea someone is tossing around right now? |
| 00:26:08 | jacques | dunno about that |
| 00:26:13 | jacques | hadn't seen that posts |
| 00:26:58 | water | pce2000.com does the rom upgrades |
| 00:27:18 | esalazar | I've discovered that although familiar is cooler in almost every way than CE it doesn't seem to be very useful at all for what a handheld is usually for: email, contacts, calendar, alarm, etc. |
| 00:27:27 | jacques | http://pocketpcpassion.com/iPAQ/UpgradeRAM/UpgradeRAM.htm |
| 00:28:00 | esalazar | Evolution port would solve all those problems in one app. Especially if it used the same file format making syching easy. |
| 00:29:40 | esalazar | QPE is very nice in that regard. I checked it out yesterday. Unfortunately they were dumb and didn't use X so they broke compatability with 90% linux and all of CE. |
| 00:32:47 | water | hm |
| 01:00:29 | esalazar | $180 |
| 01:05:20 | bworth | hi |
| 01:11:15 | water | hi |
| 01:16:33 | bworth | water: what's up? |
| 01:17:04 | water | working on installing familiar |
| 01:17:19 | water | gradually :) |
| 01:22:09 | bworth | water: i installed it last week (and then i've re-installed it about 3 times since) |
| 01:22:22 | bworth | water: not that I |
| 01:22:26 | bworth | oops: |
| 01:23:04 | bworth | not that i've had any problems, I've just been trying different installations, like qpe palmtop and intimate |
| 01:24:50 | bworth | well, i'm gonna go - later |
| 01:32:07 | water | ok |
| 01:32:35 | water | hm on a bsd box which /dev is the serial port? hmm |
| 01:33:41 | jacques | water: I don't know about bsd |
| 01:33:54 | jacques | you don't have a ttyS0 or a cua0 ? |
| 01:34:42 | water | yeah sorry i've just looked directly around /dev enough |
| 01:34:49 | water | er not that is |
| 01:35:05 | water | is actually doing several things at once |
| 01:44:42 | bworth | i'm back |
| 01:51:30 | jacques | bworth: cool |
| 01:53:53 | bworth | anybody here attend usenix? |
| 02:20:07 | water | hm |
| 02:20:12 | water | quick question |
| 02:21:00 | water | when getting ready to connect the wince ipaq to linux, http://www.handhelds.org/minihowto/wince-link/index.html says to disable automatic connection, and then make a new connection type for the linux box |
| 02:21:22 | water | however it seems to have been written for wince 2.x and 3.0 is a little different |
| 02:21:50 | water | looks around to see if he can figure out how to do this |
| 02:22:40 | water | when i disable automatic connects, it greys out setting the connect type, which i made sure to do ahead of time to avoid this |
| 02:22:46 | water | hopefully it still works |
| 02:22:57 | jacques | i think it will work |
| 02:24:04 | water | just wondering if someone's done the same thing before |
| 02:26:29 | jacques | yeah |
| 02:26:37 | jacques | i just did it last week |
| 02:26:40 | water | k |
| 02:26:48 | jacques | but i don't remember exactly what i did |
| 02:26:57 | jacques | i just screwed around and it worked the first time |
| 02:27:10 | water | heh well someone should record it and update that page some time :) |
| 02:27:54 | jacques | yeh they should |
| 02:28:43 | water | wonders why usbd is running and not pppd |
| 02:34:46 | coqueiro | hey |
| 02:36:04 | coqueiro | does anybody knows if the familiar v0.4 has support for the light sensor for the iPAQ H3670? |
| 02:36:59 | jacques | no |
| 02:37:02 | jacques | it does not |
| 02:37:34 | coqueiro | thanks |
| 02:37:41 | jacques | tho I thin you can access it through one of the available drivers |
| 02:37:53 | water | hm |
| 02:38:04 | water | yeah i have a 3670... that's good info |
| 02:38:25 | jacques | should be same as all the 36xx's |
| 02:38:28 | jacques | in that respect |
| 02:39:15 | jacques | i believe you can access the sensor under linux, but thee is no software already written that will change the backlight based on the sensor |
| 02:39:39 | water | hm |
| 02:40:10 | jacques | tho you can change the bcklight manually of course |
| 02:41:44 | jacques | im heading home |
| 02:41:50 | jacques | ill be on from there later |
| 02:42:21 | water | k |
| 02:42:27 | bworth | jacques: see ya |
| 02:45:51 | bworth | i'm leaving too - see yall later |
| 03:09:14 | water | wonders which /dev/tty* is the right one |
| 03:45:55 | water | re |
| 03:53:21 | esalazar | Is there a way to do tab, esc, and other special keys in fscrib? |
| 03:54:04 | water | dunno |
| 03:55:11 | esalazar | tab would be really nice. Typing is enough of a pain without having to type every letter of every command and path |
| 03:58:02 | esalazar | Did you get minicom working? |
| 04:13:03 | water | hm |
| 04:13:25 | water | i got the ppp interface up but haven't tried minicom again, got distracted |
| 04:23:57 | water | hm minicom's not quite working |
| 04:24:18 | water | says it can't open /dev/cuaa0 which i know is the right device |
| 04:26:28 | water | and the ipaq is still connected, so it says |
| 04:26:49 | water | hm maybe if i shut down the pppd connection and re-try with minicom |
| 04:28:50 | water | okthat worked |
| 04:47:59 | BZFlag | cuaa0? |
| 04:48:04 | water | hm but minicom doesn't respond automatically to the ipaq and i am not sure how to use it |
| 04:48:07 | BZFlag | tried /dev/ttyS0? |
| 04:48:14 | water | yes, that's the serial port for freebsd |
| 04:48:18 | BZFlag | tried /dev/ttySA0? |
| 04:48:26 | BZFlag | ah, the other end. |
| 04:48:53 | BZFlag | you sure you are no handshaking? |
| 04:49:01 | BZFlag | no hw and no sw? |
| 04:49:03 | water | i can see the ipaq saying "CLIENT" repeatedly, then giving up |
| 04:49:16 | BZFlag | this is still a CE ipaq? |
| 04:49:24 | water | it works with the pppd script that someone put on your website |
| 04:49:45 | water | but that is followed with some odd trickery with moving files over |
| 04:50:01 | BZFlag | got a CF card? |
| 04:50:16 | water | nope |
| 04:50:23 | water | i just got this thing |
| 04:50:29 | water | i have no windows machine either |
| 04:50:37 | water | (normally a very good thing) |
| 04:51:07 | BZFlag | hmm. I've never done the non-win non-cf install. |
| 04:51:44 | BZFlag | I think you hit cancel on the sync connection and then go into settings and start a ppp connection. |
| 04:52:14 | BZFlag | then web browser to get osloader.exe over, rename it, and run it. |
| 04:52:16 | water | i'm not using sync |
| 04:52:30 | water | in fact i can't use sync... no windows machine to install it on |
| 04:52:38 | BZFlag | the ipaq thinks you are using sync, hence the "CLIENT" messages. |
| 04:52:44 | water | hm |
| 04:52:51 | water | well i was invoking ppp |
| 04:52:59 | BZFlag | on the ipaq? |
| 04:53:01 | water | so i'm not sure what's going on |
| 04:53:02 | water | yes |
| 04:53:13 | BZFlag | hmmm... |
| 04:53:42 | BZFlag | as I said, I've never done the ppp with ce thing. just saying what I believe. |
| 04:53:52 | water | what an investment |
| 04:53:53 | BZFlag | got ethernet or any other net connect? |
| 04:54:06 | water | "yeah you can do that if you buy this that and the other hardware extensions" |
| 04:54:37 | water | yes i have an ethernet hub here in my room for my two machines |
| 04:54:46 | BZFlag | I mean for the ipaq |
| 04:54:58 | water | nope |
| 04:55:07 | water | i've already spent quite a bit on this |
| 04:55:12 | BZFlag | but you do have a serial cable or cradle. |
| 04:55:22 | water | although i do have the cf extension, i haven't gotten the eth card |
| 04:55:25 | water | yes |
| 04:55:32 | water | (which i had to pay extra for as well) |
| 04:56:06 | BZFlag | ok. you followed: http://handhelds.org/minihowto/wince-link/index.html ? |
| 04:56:24 | water | yes |
| 04:56:32 | BZFlag | you sure about step 1? |
| 04:56:59 | water | yep, even though it's wince 3.0 |
| 04:57:06 | water | which makes the interface different |
| 04:57:21 | water | i had to set up the ppp config before disabling automatic connection |
| 04:57:35 | water | since the latter greyed out the option to do the former |
| 04:57:38 | BZFlag | ok, if you don;t run ppp on the ipaq, and you hook up the cable do you still see CLIENT ? |
| 04:57:46 | water | but the config still shows up in the connections window |
| 04:58:08 | water | the cable has been hooked in for hours now |
| 04:58:19 | BZFlag | I know, do it again please. |
| 04:58:44 | water | do what again? it's hooked in and you asked what's happening with it NOT running ppp |
| 04:58:57 | water | it's not sending any messages if that's what you mean |
| 04:59:35 | BZFlag | unplug it from the ipaq and reconnect it while you are in minicom and see if there are any new messages. |
| 05:00:27 | water | k |
| 05:00:51 | water | nope |
| 05:01:06 | BZFlag | well that's good, I suppose. |
| 05:01:22 | BZFlag | are there options in the ppp setup for different dialup server types? |
| 05:01:36 | water | i'll check |
| 05:02:20 | water | it lists various speeds, usb, and my custom one |
| 05:02:41 | water | it also allows for tcp/ip setup |
| 05:02:45 | water | the ipaq |
| 05:02:46 | BZFlag | edit the custom one and tell me the options there. |
| 05:02:53 | Spitfire | Can anyone tell me how/where to go, to create/register a channel, ie a "#whatever" that is viewable to all? |
| 05:03:06 | water | other than error-detection, that's it |
| 05:03:09 | BZFlag | tcp/ip setup is probably just for dns/etc and perhaps only for ethernet. |
| 05:03:26 | water | spitfire: /msg chanserv help |
| 05:03:26 | BZFlag | Spitfire: /msg chanserv help |
| 05:03:32 | BZFlag | grins |
| 05:03:41 | water | yeah |
| 05:03:42 | Spitfire | ok, so I just do that in any old room? |
| 05:03:44 | water | it seems so |
| 05:03:56 | Spitfire | ok, thanks |
| 05:03:57 | BZFlag | Spitfire: but not here. ;-) |
| 05:04:01 | water | no, do it in one you are ops in, and one that is not already reg'd |
| 05:04:01 | Spitfire | yeah, heh |
| 05:04:11 | water | er |
| 05:04:29 | water | yeah he got the idea |
| 05:04:38 | water | hm |
| 05:04:55 | BZFlag | water: wish I could see the screen. poke around a bit, sounds like you are setting up a direct sync connect instead of a ppp connect. |
| 05:05:24 | BZFlag | there needs to be a user/password and probably a yes/no on chap. |
| 05:05:31 | water | how? |
| 05:05:42 | water | what is supposed to be authenticated? |
| 05:06:07 | BZFlag | the ppp connect should use chap/pap authentication. |
| 05:06:16 | BZFlag | the sync connect does not have to. |
| 05:06:27 | water | hrm |
| 05:06:37 | water | from wince to linux (fbsd in this case) |
| 05:06:38 | water | ? |
| 05:07:00 | water | i don't quite grok why, since it's not involving tcp/ip |
| 05:07:03 | BZFlag | yeah, the ce side needs to have a user/pass to send to linux/*bsd |
| 05:07:26 | water | well i see an option screen for that, but it's not directly ppp-related |
| 05:07:30 | BZFlag | huh? yes it is. you are trying to get a ppp (ie tcp/ip) connect up so you can do http requests. |
| 05:07:59 | water | hrm |
| 05:08:33 | BZFlag | you do _not_ want a direct hotsync connection as that protocol has not been fully reverse engineered IIRC |
| 05:08:46 | water | i know |
| 05:09:07 | water | but that would not make sense, since there is a clear difference between icons for sync and ppp icons |
| 05:09:16 | BZFlag | you could set it up for ppp over a modem and attach an external modem with a null modem cable. ;-) |
| 05:09:28 | water | (iow i don't see how i could possibly be confusing htem) |
| 05:09:30 | esalazar | Is there work on getting familiar to talk to hotsych? That would be nice for compatability. |
| 05:09:44 | esalazar | synch |
| 05:09:48 | water | oh let me go by ANOTHER piece of hw just to install linux! :P |
| 05:09:49 | BZFlag | talk to m$ about getting specs for the protocol |
| 05:10:26 | water | my minicom screen just shows the client messages |
| 05:10:28 | BZFlag | water: you could have bought a yopy with linux on it allready. |
| 05:10:30 | esalazar | You only need windows for installing the bootloader right? |
| 05:10:42 | water | BZ: yeah but squeak won't run on it |
| 05:10:50 | BZFlag | so fix it. ;-) |
| 05:10:54 | esalazar | Yopy looks lame |
| 05:10:58 | water | BZ: fsck off |
| 05:11:07 | water | and yes yopy is very poor |
| 05:11:20 | BZFlag | you should see the zaurus I was playing with in the office. ;-) |
| 05:11:21 | water | a real piece of sh*t |
| 05:11:33 | water | no i shouldn't |
| 05:11:42 | water | zaurus's are hardly better |
| 05:11:49 | BZFlag | water: I know others have done the install you are trying to do. |
| 05:11:52 | esalazar | either of you look at qpe? It is pretty damn nice. |
| 05:12:08 | BZFlag | water: so there has to be a way. |
| 05:12:15 | water | bz: i don't care unless they can explain it or unless they have fully documented it |
| 05:12:38 | water | bz: those guys could afford to spend a little time actually writing down what they did |
| 05:12:49 | BZFlag | you don't have a m$ system anywhere to sync from? just install one under vmware, sync, then nuke it as that's all you need it for, |
| 05:13:19 | BZFlag | wine might even work for that if you use serial sync |
| 05:14:39 | water | hm i could go to a friend's house tomorrow |
| 05:15:02 | water | yeah i'll do that... save me some headaches |
| 05:15:11 | BZFlag | that's what I'd do if I were in your shoes. |
| 05:15:19 | esalazar | water: did you say that you did have a ppp link up between your WinCE and linux? |
| 05:15:22 | water | heh but i'm barefoot :) |
| 05:15:30 | water | yes |
| 05:15:32 | BZFlag | so am I ;-) |
| 05:15:38 | water | pppd worked fine |
| 05:15:54 | water | it even woke the machine up and got the connection live without my asking it |
| 05:16:07 | water | minicom however doesn't seem to handle it at all |
| 05:16:20 | water | even though the ppp script is saved in the usual spot |
| 05:16:23 | BZFlag | huh? minicom is not till after you run osloader |
| 05:16:31 | esalazar | Yeah. |
| 05:16:40 | water | LOL |
| 05:16:47 | water | :P~~~~~~~ |
| 05:17:09 | water | those instructions are for BEFORE you even get osloader on the machine |
| 05:17:22 | water | ok well at least i know where i'm at |
| 05:17:58 | water | sees about how to get the ftp program onto the machine |
| 05:18:18 | esalazar | If you have ppp working then you shouldn't have any problems if you have a running web server |
| 05:18:22 | water | hm i'll have to enable ftpd... yum yum security holes |
| 05:18:38 | BZFlag | you can do the email attachment thing they did or just grab it from the web and look through the cache for a file of the same size. |
| 05:18:45 | water | that's not what the tutorial says |
| 05:18:55 | BZFlag | I don't think the ce browser has any concept of downloading. |
| 05:19:01 | water | i don't either |
| 05:19:16 | esalazar | you don't. the ftp *server* is on the CE side. You just to a put from your linux box |
| 05:19:18 | water | i don't have an email account set up for the handheld though |
| 05:19:27 | water | ah |
| 05:19:34 | water | i thought he meant it was a client |
| 05:19:38 | BZFlag | the instructions have you install a ftp server on the ipaq and then ftp upload things like osloader. |
| 05:20:07 | esalazar | Once you get the bootldr installed, be prepared for some pain when you get to minicom though |
| 05:20:11 | BZFlag | but if you can do that, just send osloader.exe and you are done with ce. |
| 05:20:16 | water | keep in mind guys i do not run servers |
| 05:20:37 | BZFlag | got a ppp account anywhere? |
| 05:20:43 | water | wow you guys keep all this shit in your heads? |
| 05:20:50 | water | not any more :P |
| 05:20:54 | BZFlag | er.... a pop3 account I meant. |
| 05:20:56 | esalazar | xmodem transfers are very flakey from minicom. I had to try like 10 times for each transfer before it would go through |
| 05:21:01 | water | oh pop3 |
| 05:21:06 | water | yes, 2 of them |
| 05:21:17 | water | but accessing them from the handheld? |
| 05:21:24 | water | when it doesn't have it's own ip? |
| 05:21:38 | BZFlag | ok, mail yourself osloader.exe and set up the ipaq to check you account there (not delete emails) and pull attachments down as well. |
| 05:21:41 | water | (i only have 2 ip's, one for this laptop, the other for the server) |
| 05:21:52 | BZFlag | if ppp is up it has it's own ip. |
| 05:21:54 | water | hm |
| 05:22:17 | BZFlag | you may need to setup masquerading first, or proxyarp. |
| 05:23:08 | BZFlag | I'd run a http server on the PC the ipaq is ppp connected to and then use the web browser to suck down the file into the cache and run from there (after a rename) |
| 05:23:16 | water | oh yeah, all this is shit i do in my sleep :P |
| 05:23:27 | BZFlag | is sleeping. ;-) |
| 05:23:32 | water | i think i'll just bug my friend tomorrow :P |
| 05:23:43 | BZFlag | that works too. ;-) |
| 05:23:59 | water | fsck, i hate unix |
| 05:24:15 | water | too bad no one likes lisp |
| 05:24:19 | BZFlag | then why are you on *bsd and installing linux on your ipaq? |
| 05:24:32 | BZFlag | grins |
| 05:24:36 | water | because the bsd machine runs common lisp and common lisp web server really well |
| 05:24:47 | | No luck, BZFlag |
| 05:24:47 | BZFlag | ibot: insult *bsd |
| 05:24:54 | water | and ipaq linux runs squeak smalltalk really well |
| 05:25:00 | BZFlag | ahhh |
| 05:25:15 | water | os's are just ways to get me to my high-level language os's :) |
| 05:25:26 | water | (and i own a lisp machine) |
| 05:25:35 | water | (if that tells you anything) |
| 05:26:25 | BZFlag | cool. well gotta split for a while |
| 05:26:41 | esalazar | lisp machine? |
| 05:32:22 | mindrape | compaq came and pick up muh handheld today |
| 05:32:34 | mindrape | i'll be ipaqless for a week =( |
| 06:03:48 | esalazar | anyone use dillo? |
| 06:10:47 | BZFlag | I mailed mine to ipaq valhalla 1 1/2 weeks ago and still no word. |
| 06:52:00 | mindrape | mailed it? |
| 06:52:04 | mindrape | did you ship it via their service? |
| 07:51:41 | BZFlag | mindrape: I just sent it, I didn't know there was a "service" for valhalla. I have used the airborne service for regular compaq service though. |
| 12:15:25 | bworth | g'morning! |
| 12:32:31 | viljo | moin |
| 15:08:48 | sjohnson | is away: linch |
| 15:21:39 | | cworth was last seen on #handhelds.org 12 hours, 3 minutes and 15 seconds ago, saying: ibot: seen bworth? [Fri Jun 29 04:18:24 2001] |
| 15:21:39 | dneuer | ibot: seen cworth? |
| 15:35:04 | nikos | is away: Errand and food |
| 15:49:18 | niehaus | hello, anyone there? I am old enough to have never done IRC before |
| 15:50:06 | niehaus | ok, guess I am the only one. |
| 15:50:27 | niehaus | I'll be back later to ask for few pointers. I am |
| 15:50:28 | BBrox | There are people in #Handhelds.org |
| 15:50:38 | niehaus | AH! OK, thanks. |
| 16:08:32 | nikos | is back |
| 16:25:23 | sjohnson | is back (gone 01:15:29) |
| 19:41:30 | niehaus | is away: I'm busy |
| 20:23:30 | sgodsell | Hello Familiar people ;) |
| 20:23:37 | Nermal | hello |
| 20:23:57 | nikos | hi |
| 20:25:57 | Nermal | nods ;) |
| 23:13:50 | esalazar | Is support for one of the new dual expansion pack likely in the near future? I mean, if I am going to be using familiar, should I order one? |
| 23:15:49 | Zugot | I read in the mail groups that it might be soon |
| 23:19:01 | esalazar | I'm confused about the different kinds of expansions. There are more than one type of cf card and pcmcia? Would I be able to use an IBM 1GB Microdrive and a Wavelan wireless card at the same time? |
| 23:24:20 | Zugot | I think so |
| 23:24:26 | Zugot | thats almost what I'm going for |
| 23:25:38 | esalazar | Can anyone recommend where in the US to order accessories reliable and cheap. |
| 23:27:02 | Zugot | well you could look on asksimon.com |
| 23:27:06 | Zugot | or even ebay if you wanted |
| 23:27:17 | Zugot | er mysimon.com |