| 00:00.01 | Centurion_Dan | hellekin: It could be a cooperative company but then it couldn't be wholly owned by the foundation. Better to have the enterprise front company and certified resellers. |
| 00:01.35 | hellekin | Centurion_Dan: I'm not sure an NL foundation can own a business, but maybe it can. It can most probably participate in a cooperative though. I'd be interested in expanding on these possibilities and figure out something collectively. |
| 00:02.58 | hellekin | if we can give incentive to devuan businesses to systematically give back a part of their profit to the project, that would be a great way to reach sustainability. |
| 00:03.27 | hellekin | I know that asking for it is not enough, because we're not rational beings. |
| 00:03.58 | hellekin | contrary to what many economists, and non-economists learned to regurgitate. |
| 00:04.31 | Centurion_Dan | I have a German lawyer/judge living locally that does corporate law both in NZ and Germany. I might ask her what she thinks. Based on what I read about The Document Foundation (Libreoffice), Germany may be the best country to locate it in. |
| 00:05.20 | Centurion_Dan | She's a member in one of the societies I'm a member off... |
| 00:06.15 | Centurion_Dan | Apparently they have the best legal protections. |
| 00:06.27 | hellekin | maybe she can talk to Stephan Urbach, the accountant for CCT (http://techcultivation.org) |
| 00:07.34 | hellekin | Centurion_Dan: can you ask her what she thinks about the European Cooperative Society form? |
| 00:08.11 | hellekin | I've been lurking at this for years but never got the chance to have a serious feedback on it. |
| 00:09.39 | hellekin | apparently very successful with big distribution, as it allows them to use the most advantageous fiscal law and work law among EU member countries participating in the SCE (French abbreviation) |
| 00:12.13 | hellekin | in our network we have easy access to organizations in NL, DE, FR, ES, IT, UK to form such a cooperative. But it requires some EU legalese acrobatics in order to take advantage of it. |
| 00:12.31 | hellekin | oh wait, did I say UK? Hahahaha. |
| 00:12.40 | hellekin | Sorry. #brexit joke. |
| 00:13.10 | hellekin | We can do Ireland and Scotland though :P |
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| 00:26.30 | Centurion_Dan | Ireland yes, but Scotland is part of the UK as far as I understand it, and they've got no hope of staying in the EU or winning independence from the UK and keeping the UK's EU benefits. |
| 00:28.09 | Centurion_Dan | At best if Scotland did manage to leave the UK, then it would still have to apply to the EU and it would have lost all the advantageous privileges the UK enjoyed - including retaining it's own currency... |
| 00:40.07 | hellekin | I think Scotland would like to gain independence and join EU over staying with the Five Eyes (although probably not for that reason) |
| 00:40.27 | hellekin | and I'd love to see UK dismantled during my lifetime ;) |
| 00:42.04 | gci_admin | Hater! ;) |
| 00:42.22 | Centurion_Dan | Anyway that's beside the point. If Devuan had a not for profit foundation with a wholly owned for profit subsidiary, that subsidiary could be a member of such a cooperative, but I can't honestly see any great benefits of a cooperative to Devuan or the businesses that use and promote the distrobution. They'd be free to do so without it the Devuan Inc's help or permission as the distribution itself and all it's property would remain with the |
| 00:42.22 | Centurion_Dan | Foundation. |
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| 00:50.51 | hellekin | Centurion_Dan: I must say this kind of setups is beyond me. We agree that something is needed to support commercial applications of devuan, and a for-profit branch is good to feed a non-profit trunk. |
| 01:06.57 | Centurion_Dan | Indeed, and this is a common structure and I'd be very surprised that it was not allowed there. |
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| 03:38.56 | furrywolf | While not commercial, I'd suggest getting the linuxcnc people to switch to devuan. But, before we can do that, we need a rock solid non-beta release. |
| 03:45.34 | hellekin | furrywolf: when we reach 1.0 we have more leverage to convince other debian-based distros to switch over. Some didn't wait, some are waiting, some are not aware or not interested. Diversity FTW |
| 03:48.41 | furrywolf | the linuxcnc people are very very much into stability. when your OS is moving sharp spinny things and a whoops can result in someone getting splattered onto a wall, you want tested and reliable. |
| 03:49.04 | furrywolf | and systemd goes whoops way, way too often. |
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| 03:51.12 | stevelitt | golug |
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| 04:22.30 | furrywolf | curls up for bedtime |
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| 05:00.23 | pup_jessie248872 | Jessie is amused xD |
| 05:00.26 | pup_jessie248872 | http://oi64.tinypic.com/2z7pkxh.jpg |
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| 07:57.56 | jaromil | Centurion_Dan: AWS based image, which format is that? please note thatn the opennebula is working, but the openstack image needs testing and has been reportedly broken (I have no means to test it, plus is just using the cloud-init debian package which is utterly broken) |
| 08:03.19 | jsfarinet | Hi all! |
| 08:03.41 | jsfarinet | May be someone here has the answer to this question: |
| 08:04.55 | jsfarinet | I'd like to have /tmp in zram (which seems possible using a script of Martin Vaeth (from gentoo)) but which apparently is unpracticable in devuan/debian. |
| 08:05.55 | jsfarinet | So, i use tmpfs. Now the question: If tmpfs comes to the limit (is there any limit or might it eat all ram?) will it push stuff to the swap? |
| 08:10.58 | DusXMT | jsfarinet: The system swaps small amounts of memory all the time, if it finds it to be practical, and it'll definitely swap some of your tmpfs if you have a lot of files in it |
| 08:11.45 | DusXMT | ie. the more it swaps, the more ram there is for filesystem caching and other optimizations, and the smoother the system is |
| 08:13.54 | DusXMT | It swaps when it notices that a piece of memory's not being used all that much, and it would make sense to push it to the disk and use the ram area for something more useful |
| 08:15.51 | jsfarinet | Thanks DusXMT. The background of my question is: I'm trying out Vivaldi (chrome based Browser made by a group of originally Opera people - and which is looking quite nice). But apparently, there is no way to configure the browser cache in a way similar to FF: i.e. no hd cache but only cache to ram. So i had the idea to dirrect the cache to /tmp making /tmp tmpfs |
| 08:17.11 | jsfarinet | The zram-init script of Martin Vaeth, mentioned above, builds zram swap *AND* /tmp in zram (compressed ram). |
| 08:17.44 | jsfarinet | I didn't succeed to get it working in devuan (due to the bad openrc implementation in debian). |
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| 08:45.25 | Centurion_Dan | jaromil: I can use a cloud-init image to build a devuan base image for AWS and share it either for a small fee or for free. |
| 08:48.45 | jaromil | sounds like you can provide premium support for AWS deployement :^) |
| 08:49.15 | jaromil | I'm just saying beware that the cloud-init in beta doesn't works on openstack, at least i read negative reports but also lacking detail |
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| 08:49.32 | jaromil | i know a lot of them, yet seems most people using openstack are too busy |
| 08:49.55 | jaromil | so well i don't know if you say it works then it would be nice to include a working cloud-init in the next release |
| 08:54.00 | hellekin | moin |
| 08:54.30 | jsfarinet | moin moin? ;) |
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| 08:57.11 | jsfarinet | Just a quick question: Which is the correct place for mimeapps.list? ~/.config/mimeapps.list? Or ~/.local/share/applications/mimeapps.list? I've both, but no idea why and if both would be respected |
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| 09:02.09 | Centurion_Dan | I did look at the openstack image builder and started on that, but then somebody else had been going down that path. If it's not done then I'll take that up again and kill 2 birds with one stone ;-) |
| 09:02.17 | Centurion_Dan | jaromil: ^^ |
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| 11:25.21 | firegarden | yo oys |
| 11:25.22 | firegarden | boys |
| 11:25.39 | firegarden | i'm trying to convert a debian 8 to devuan but i have some troubles that i never had before |
| 11:25.52 | firegarden | dpkg: error processing package systemd (--remove): |
| 11:25.52 | firegarden | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:25.52 | firegarden | Failed to stop lib-init-rw.mount: Unit lib-init-rw.mount not loaded. |
| 11:25.52 | firegarden | Errors were encountered while processing: |
| 11:25.52 | firegarden | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:25.53 | firegarden | E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) |
| 11:26.25 | firegarden | i follow the usual operation @ https://talk.devuan.org/t/migrating-from-debian-to-a-minimalist-devuan/181 |
| 11:32.15 | firegarden | oh wait... oh |
| 11:32.17 | firegarden | solved :D |
| 11:32.59 | firegarden | THANKS FOR YOUR SILENT HINT! IT WAS LIKE A "FORCE" INSIDE ME TO FIND THE PATH AWAY FROM SYSTEMD! [ |
| 11:33.09 | firegarden | [i don't know what i written] |
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| 11:39.50 | zdzichu | you're welcome |
| 11:43.35 | KatolaZ | firegarden: ? |
| 11:44.33 | firegarden | KatolaZ ? |
| 11:45.06 | firegarden | i did an apt-get install sysvinit blabla /reboot/ remove systemd: all ok |
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| 12:01.30 | KatolaZ | firegarden: are you using Devuan's repos? |
| 12:02.00 | firegarden | yes |
| 12:02.07 | KatolaZ | you should have just put Devuan's repos in your sources.list and apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade |
| 12:02.09 | firegarden | without debian reos |
| 12:02.24 | KatolaZ | it has worked for me hundreds times |
| 12:02.43 | firegarden | yes, as usually. and for the first time i had that problem i paste. it worked for me hunderds times too |
| 12:02.51 | firegarden | for this reason i pasted here the error |
| 12:02.58 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 12:02.58 | firegarden | but is a linode vps with a debian 8 by linode |
| 12:03.17 | firegarden | maybe there is something different but i'm not sure. |
| 12:03.30 | firegarden | but doing before the dist-upgrade |
| 12:03.33 | KatolaZ | it's strange thoush |
| 12:03.38 | KatolaZ | ~though |
| 12:03.57 | firegarden | apt-get install devuan-keyring -y --force-yes && apt-get update |
| 12:03.57 | firegarden | apt-get install sysvinit-core sysvinit sysvinit-utils |
| 12:03.57 | firegarden | apt-get remove --purge --auto-remove systemd |
| 12:04.18 | firegarden | if i have a bit of time tonight i try locally on a "original" debian 8 |
| 12:04.27 | firegarden | without using the linode image |
| 12:04.27 | KatolaZ | please do |
| 12:04.33 | firegarden | yep :) |
| 12:05.47 | firegarden | oh well done: vestacp is fully compatible with devuan [i deploy now a vps for a customer] |
| 12:05.55 | firegarden | good to know :D |
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| 12:35.46 | hellekin | "apt-get install devuan-keyring -y --force-yes" sounds less secure than "wget -q -O- https://devuan.org/os/keyring/repository@devuan.org.asc | sudo apt-key add -" |
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| 22:25.21 | ryuujin | http://camp.olografix.org |
| 22:27.58 | Centurion_Dan | ryuujin: ?? |
| 22:28.30 | Centurion_Dan | ryuujin: what does that have to do with Devuan development? |
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