| 00:36.48 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096600612.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:37.17 | IriX64 | regards |
| 00:40.37 | IriX64 | still can't find that xlib, darn thing mustev run off to get married or something :) |
| 00:54.57 | brlcad | ssh access and it could potentially get fixed quickly |
| 01:05.53 | yukonbob | ...and IriX64. |
| 01:10.32 | brlcad | howdy yukonbob |
| 01:10.35 | brlcad | how goes it? |
| 01:11.24 | yukonbob | not bad at all... working away on projects bit-by-bit |
| 01:11.46 | yukonbob | you? |
| 01:30.36 | brlcad | pretty good, working on a fun projected area computation task at the moment |
| 01:30.56 | brlcad | using rtarea along with some scripting to see how coverage changes from various perspectives |
| 01:31.50 | yukonbob | so seeing what surface area is presented as an object rotates around various axes? |
| 01:32.06 | brlcad | something sort of like that |
| 01:32.12 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 01:32.16 | yukonbob | "sort of" |
| 01:33.31 | brlcad | if this were clothing, it'd be sort of like looking at the presented surface area as different skirts and dresses are compared, and doing so from various directions so you could characterize the "coverage" (or lack thereof) |
| 01:35.10 | yukonbob | ah |
| 01:37.58 | yukonbob | so, with a complex composite object, one could "dig in" to find a certain object and see how much is exposed "to the world", depending on the view. |
| 01:40.04 | brlcad | yeah, something like that |
| 01:40.44 | brlcad | even for something simple like a person's face, you could talk about what % of their face is taken up by their eyes or nose or ears, etc |
| 01:41.16 | brlcad | it's pretty simple, it just reports the values for whatever objects -- drop-in replacement for rt |
| 01:41.20 | yukonbob | right -- so the object doesn't have to be "buried" by other objects... just identifiable. |
| 01:42.13 | brlcad | the tool could be further improved, right now the "presented" area as it's listed isn't quite what one usually wants as it'll count how many surfaces you go through |
| 01:42.45 | brlcad | but exposure is the more useful one .. what projected surface area is there for all fo the given exposed objects |
| 01:42.59 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:43.00 | yukonbob | could you calculate, for example, how much sunshine would hit the side of a house with the sun at a certain spot, and a tree in the way? |
| 01:43.44 | ``Erik | *wave* |
| 01:44.26 | brlcad | yukonbob: yeah, definitely |
| 01:44.45 | yukonbob | brlcad: cool -- I'm gonna finish typing a report and play ;) |
| 01:45.16 | brlcad | or (and sort of like what i'm doing right now) how that % coverage of the trees changes as the sun progresses across the sky during the day |
| 01:45.36 | yukonbob | sure -- script it, take values, look for curve... |
| 01:45.43 | brlcad | script that to a table of values for various elevations and you have a nifty coverage curve |
| 01:49.28 | yukonbob | is this kind of analysis typical w/ professional CAD (ie: solidworks, Pro/E) (am I wrong to be lumping SW w/ Pro/E?) |
| 01:50.57 | louipc | I don't think it's wrong. I've never used Pro/E though heh |
| 01:56.06 | louipc | yeap everyone uses it |
| 01:56.35 | louipc | it doesn't do 2d drawings all that well though :P |
| 01:56.56 | yukonbob | but then, neither does brl-cad ;) |
| 02:02.01 | brlcad | it's not wrong, we're in the solid modeling CAD domain, which is solidworks, unigraphics, pro/e, catia |
| 02:02.33 | brlcad | we just don't do the drafting side really well (which they wander into a lot more, and for which autocad is king) |
| 03:21.48 | brlcad | report? |
| 03:22.33 | yukonbob | seperate work... |
| 03:23.57 | yukonbob | brlcad: can I just "rtarea mydb.g myobj" and get something interesting back? -- I've got some info, but now it appears to be wait()ing. |
| 03:26.11 | brlcad | yeah |
| 03:26.14 | brlcad | what version are you on? |
| 03:26.26 | brlcad | there's an SMP bug in an older version |
| 03:26.44 | brlcad | causes it to hang, later fixed |
| 03:26.54 | yukonbob | still 7.8.x |
| 03:27.02 | brlcad | oh yeah, that one has issues |
| 03:27.24 | brlcad | doesn't matter ;) |
| 03:27.32 | yukonbob | feh |
| 03:27.53 | brlcad | you could fix it in code for 7.8.0, but there's a semaphore condition that causes a deadlock |
| 03:28.54 | brlcad | 7.10 is so much better in many under-the-hood ways |
| 04:07.25 | IriX64 | brlcad: can't be done im on cyggy remeber |
| 04:08.11 | brlcad | cyggy isn't a crutch |
| 04:08.18 | brlcad | it's just a matter of figuring out the compile |
| 04:08.43 | brlcad | lemme know if you change your mind on the access |
| 04:08.49 | IriX64 | sure |
| 05:13.36 | IriX64 | how do i work ssh ive never used it |
| 05:13.41 | IriX64 | have it tho |
| 05:17.35 | brlcad | install sshd, run it, open up port 22 on your firewall/router, create an account for the user you want to allow in, let them know the username password and IP address |
| 05:18.11 | brlcad | there's got to be several guides or tutorials up on-line somewhere for doing this specifically in cygwin |
| 05:18.27 | IriX64 | thanks ill look around |
| 05:18.30 | brlcad | otherwise, I imagine it's the same as creating any new user account, and just running the binary |
| 05:18.43 | IriX64 | right |
| 05:19.13 | brlcad | i've had others provide remote cygwin account access in the past to debug stuff, but I didn't ask what they did to set it up |
| 05:19.45 | brlcad | he controls his router/firewall settings last I noticed .. at least enough for him to run a public web server off it .. :) |
| 05:20.00 | yukonbob | there you go -- no problems ;) |
| 05:20.04 | brlcad | i think he has pictures of havoc to prove it ;) |
| 05:20.16 | yukonbob | lol |
| 05:58.48 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@217-162-111-40.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:32.05 | brlcad | woo hoo, all done |
| 07:19.12 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:58.46 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-4 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 08:59.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/openw.tcl: |
| 08:59.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: fix the .mgedrc saving. this was actually an 8.5 issue -- [font names] is no |
| 08:59.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: longer empty. Tk now provides five fonts by default (TkCaptionFont |
| 08:59.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: TkTooltipFont TkHeadingFont TkTextFont TkDefaultFont) which was causing mged to |
| 08:59.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: not initialize its own fonts (and later causing the tclscript error about the |
| 08:59.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: font variable not being set). actually check for one of our fonts via |
| 08:59.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: mged_default(text_font) |
| 08:59.47 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: that should fix the problem with the create/update .mgedrc menu option |
| 09:00.06 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: cool! |
| 09:13.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (helplib.tcl mged/openw.tcl mged/text.tcl): merge from head, tab completion and .mgedrc fix |
| 09:15.36 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: do you already have an idea what's causing the arbn mirroring problem? |
| 09:15.47 | Z80-Boy | Maybe the cause is the same as what causes the arbn to be incorrectly shaded |
| 09:16.17 | brlcad | i've not gotten to that one yet |
| 09:16.41 | brlcad | but not very likely at all -- mirroring is a self-contained function implemented per primitive |
| 09:16.53 | Z80-Boy | it's cool that you fix so fast, Samba needed 2 years for some of my bugreports. |
| 09:17.19 | brlcad | probably just a bug in that primitive's mirroring |
| 09:18.12 | Z80-Boy | But mirroring is not any special operation, it's just applying a matrix isn't it? |
| 09:18.23 | brlcad | this is actually a bit slower than the cad team has historically operated, though we still do okay from time to time for short periods of time |
| 09:18.28 | brlcad | no it's not |
| 09:18.48 | Z80-Boy | Does it check if a matrix is the special case - mirroring? |
| 09:19.01 | brlcad | it gets down to fundamental operations, like how you saw that for ray-tracing we perform what you called "direct calculations" |
| 09:19.28 | Z80-Boy | cause it seemed to happen also with a mere translation matrix |
| 09:19.47 | Z80-Boy | looked like any matrix applied on this particular arbn screwed it up significantly |
| 09:19.54 | brlcad | it's different for every primitive, some have a transformation matrix, but some (most) don't (as they really don't need it, you just flip a sign on a vector or similar operation) |
| 09:20.03 | Z80-Boy | like the directions of the facets seems to be still OK, but they were shifted |
| 09:20.31 | Z80-Boy | Here I did mirroring by typing a matrix into red |
| 09:20.34 | brlcad | it could be something more fundamental to the arbn, but still specific to it |
| 09:20.45 | brlcad | ahh |
| 09:20.48 | brlcad | you didn't run mirror? |
| 09:20.51 | Z80-Boy | that looks like the constants are wrong, doesn't? |
| 09:21.00 | Z80-Boy | No. I don't even know there's a special "mirror" function |
| 09:21.07 | Z80-Boy | I type everything into the red |
| 09:21.14 | brlcad | see if mirror works |
| 09:21.17 | brlcad | just curious |
| 09:21.57 | brlcad | that's good to know/annotate actually, as that would be a general unpushed matrix transform on an arbn |
| 09:22.20 | Z80-Boy | is it push/pop like with a stack? |
| 09:22.50 | brlcad | not really |
| 09:23.06 | brlcad | depends how you want to think about it, but it's matrices on nodes of the dag |
| 09:23.19 | Z80-Boy | unpushed matrix is a matrix that resides with the combination rather than with the solid? |
| 09:23.34 | brlcad | you can push the matrix down to the leaf nodes (the primitives) or leave them higher up |
| 09:23.37 | brlcad | right |
| 09:23.49 | Z80-Boy | how do you push them? |
| 09:23.54 | brlcad | the push command |
| 09:24.05 | brlcad | or the xpush command if you have multiple references |
| 09:24.06 | Z80-Boy | aha |
| 09:24.43 | Z80-Boy | No I don't use that |
| 09:25.19 | Z80-Boy | arbns are actually quite useful |
| 09:25.26 | Z80-Boy | You can make a dodecahedron and icosahedron with arbn right? |
| 09:26.07 | brlcad | sure |
| 09:26.23 | Z80-Boy | btw the display of spheres is annoying - couldn't it display a circle as outline of the sphere? |
| 09:26.33 | Z80-Boy | Now it display some kind of kid's playground attraction |
| 09:26.35 | brlcad | exceptionally compact for some of the shapes it can represent |
| 09:26.57 | Z80-Boy | or a potatoid if you generata a lot of randomly placed planes? |
| 09:27.22 | Z80-Boy | I also found that the command to make a lot of copies, I don't remember, shows only the first two |
| 09:27.30 | Z80-Boy | FOr example I make a cube, then tell it to make a row of 10 cubes |
| 09:27.36 | Z80-Boy | Only 2 cubes are displayed |
| 09:27.49 | Z80-Boy | then I need to actually redisplay (B again?) to show them |
| 09:28.05 | Z80-Boy | And also rt renders the last cube to be cut off |
| 09:28.17 | brlcad | clone command |
| 09:28.18 | Z80-Boy | I think you already said that it's because of Z clipping or something like that |
| 09:28.22 | Z80-Boy | yes clone was that |
| 09:28.31 | brlcad | are you up to date, clone was recently "completed" for beta-testing |
| 09:28.37 | brlcad | (like two days ago) |
| 09:28.40 | Z80-Boy | oh cool |
| 09:28.45 | Z80-Boy | No that was much more before |
| 09:29.17 | brlcad | ah, it was incomplete before -- it used to blather a big ol' warning |
| 09:29.36 | brlcad | but I vaguely recall erik taking that out as he started gettting the transforms to work |
| 09:29.39 | Z80-Boy | clone is mega cool |
| 09:30.21 | brlcad | clone is one of the most powerful commands available |
| 09:31.19 | brlcad | according to the modelers that have used it in the past, it's a feature that beats out the commercial packages by quite a bit |
| 09:31.45 | Z80-Boy | lollie lol :) |
| 09:31.50 | brlcad | originally implemented by this small company called GSI that did some really impressive models back in the early 90's |
| 09:32.32 | brlcad | they made a bunch of brl-cad mods, one of them was clone -- but implemented for our old API, so it's taken a long while to update it to our newest API so it could be integrated |
| 09:33.19 | brlcad | check out the pix-g tool in the src/proc-db directory ;) |
| 09:34.00 | Z80-Boy | pix2g? |
| 09:34.13 | brlcad | er, yeah, pix2g |
| 09:34.27 | Z80-Boy | what does it do? |
| 09:36.23 | brlcad | almost exactly what you said.. takes an image and generates a brl-cad model of it |
| 09:36.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/pix2g.c: take the blame |
| 09:36.41 | brlcad | by creating a bunch of spheres in a plane, one for each pixel |
| 09:36.49 | brlcad | colored to the pixel value color |
| 09:36.52 | Z80-Boy | wow |
| 09:37.18 | brlcad | it was just for kicks |
| 09:37.47 | Z80-Boy | a million spheres, does mged choke? |
| 09:37.48 | brlcad | most of the proc-db tools are just instructional or passive tests, safe for a few that have some common use |
| 09:38.20 | brlcad | it did provoke a lot of issues in mged that I had to fix |
| 09:38.31 | Z80-Boy | ;-) |
| 09:38.40 | brlcad | and you can still blow the stack, I forget what the practical limit is |
| 09:38.43 | Z80-Boy | where is the code to draw a sphere on screen? |
| 09:39.10 | brlcad | but no, it should actually not choke mged (though you might need a large stack size) |
| 09:39.11 | Z80-Boy | src/mged? |
| 09:39.19 | brlcad | the wireframe? |
| 09:39.25 | Z80-Boy | draw multipane slowly? |
| 09:39.30 | brlcad | every primitive is almost entirely self-describing |
| 09:39.56 | brlcad | in just one file -- src/librt/g_PRIMITIVE.C |
| 09:40.48 | brlcad | the *_plot() function does the wireframe |
| 09:41.03 | Z80-Boy | ELL versions of the plot and tess functions are used |
| 09:41.07 | brlcad | librt is the geometry engine |
| 09:41.09 | brlcad | yep |
| 09:41.20 | brlcad | sph are ell |
| 09:41.42 | brlcad | it's just an optimized specialization for performance and user convenience |
| 09:42.02 | Z80-Boy | Oh RT_ADD_VLIST |
| 09:42.28 | brlcad | that's another one of GSI's mods that I'll probably work on merging next |
| 09:42.43 | Z80-Boy | what mod? |
| 09:42.58 | brlcad | they had high and low commands to display crisp wireframes |
| 09:43.11 | brlcad | instead of using N segments, it displays a smooth curve |
| 09:43.16 | Z80-Boy | cool! |
| 09:43.33 | brlcad | doesn't do the sillouette that you're talking about, but it's definitely a nice addition |
| 09:43.35 | Z80-Boy | cause with this it's often impossible to see if a sphere touches something or if it's misaligned |
| 09:43.46 | Z80-Boy | that should help too |
| 09:43.54 | brlcad | (it intentionally doesn't draw the sillouette, but would be interesting to try it (again)) |
| 09:44.09 | Z80-Boy | what's bad on silhoutette? |
| 09:44.17 | brlcad | they had another routine to snap spheres to surfaces ;) |
| 09:46.21 | brlcad | it's not that it's bad, but it'd need to be on all the curved surfaces to be consistent and that gets rather tricky for several of the primitives |
| 09:47.05 | brlcad | finding the projection of the sillouette of a torus for example, a lil tricksy |
| 09:49.52 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-024-077.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:51.42 | Z80-Boy | I guess "toroid" is a typo of "tyroid", like have a shape of tyre |
| 09:52.04 | brlcad | huh? |
| 09:52.08 | brlcad | that's not a typo :) |
| 09:52.20 | brlcad | a toroidal surface |
| 09:52.40 | brlcad | ah |
| 09:53.00 | brlcad | humor, my brain isn't firing on all pistons at the moment, been up all night |
| 10:00.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/configure.ac: partial merge from head for the xno fix |
| 10:37.52 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-169-43-146.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
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| 14:05.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/ (76 files in 15 dirs): more merging from HEAD. bring in build system tweakage updates that should fix some library symbol problems from croping up post-release. |
| 14:08.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (14 files): merge from head, make linger the default framebuffer action instead of transient for all windowing framebuffer interfaces. |
| 14:13.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: separate out the 7.11 section so the STABLE branch can be kept in sync more easily |
| 14:16.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/NEWS: merged from head was lingering framebuffer windows, red command, and .mgedrc editor setting |
| 14:17.18 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: new mged 'clone' object copy command |
| 14:19.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: oop, don't forget the lil ol 'tracker' command that was done early on; all to be announced for 7.12 |
| 14:21.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: clone and tracker are pretty much done, need some tender loving care and testing |
| 14:33.57 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob_ (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) |
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| 15:46.19 | yukonbob_ | . |
| 17:03.49 | brlcad | happy friday! |
| 17:13.17 | ``Erik | w00t |
| 17:14.07 | ``Erik | have we gotten the green light for a release yet? |
| 17:24.28 | brlcad | nope |
| 17:49.34 | poolio | yay weekend :) |
| 17:49.42 | poolio | what's all this STABLE CIA spam I see? |
| 17:49.55 | poolio | And how many months late are you guys? :P |
| 17:54.16 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 18:07.33 | ``Erik | Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam. |
| 18:12.05 | *** join/#brlcad PK (i=Matt@74.86.45.130) |
| 18:14.20 | brlcad | poolio: just one |
| 18:16.59 | poolio | heh, not too bad. |
| 18:17.14 | poolio | brlcad: I'm thinking about starting up coding again. Not having a programming class is really bugging me. |
| 19:37.24 | ``Erik | heh, cvs -z3 update -ACPdRrt |
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| 22:36.58 | yukonbob | dum de dum dum |
| 22:38.23 | thing0 | morning yall |
| 22:38.27 | thing0 | hey yukonbob |
| 22:38.28 | thing0 | ;) |
| 22:38.33 | yukonbob | afternoon thing0 :) |
| 22:38.39 | thing0 | hehe |
| 22:38.48 | thing0 | it is 638am |
| 22:39.02 | yukonbob | Where? |
| 22:42.59 | thing0 | Perth |
| 22:43.06 | thing0 | sorry so many windows |
| 22:43.07 | thing0 | hehe |
| 22:43.51 | yukonbob | I guess that means my friend in Adelaide is starting his day now too... |
| 22:44.38 | thing0 | he is two hours ahead |
| 22:44.43 | thing0 | hehe |
| 22:45.56 | yukonbob | ya --- but oh -- it's Saturday too... ;) |
| 22:46.13 | thing0 | hehe |
| 22:46.31 | yukonbob | happy weekend, thing0 :) |
| 22:46.51 | thing0 | it will be |
| 22:47.07 | thing0 | i have to get my legs better |
| 22:47.15 | thing0 | hurt them a bit while I was away |
| 22:47.25 | thing0 | noticed on Tuesday after sitting down for ages |
| 22:50.21 | thing0 | hehe |
| 22:50.23 | thing0 | have fun |
| 22:50.40 | thing0 | i am deciding what new language to learn (re-learn) |
| 22:50.41 | yukonbob | I'll be having fun once it's done... |
| 22:50.47 | thing0 | i am thinking of python again |
| 22:50.48 | thing0 | hehe |
| 22:51.01 | yukonbob | lua |
| 22:51.20 | thing0 | lua? |
| 22:51.31 | yukonbob | little embeddable scripting lang |
| 22:51.43 | thing0 | i was thinking that |
| 22:51.49 | thing0 | lua did look familar |
| 22:56.03 | thing0 | yukonbob: i am after a language that is good for data parsing |
| 22:56.16 | yukonbob | tcl? |
| 22:56.17 | thing0 | preferably can use windows hooks aswell |
| 23:06.24 | ``Erik | weekend? I'll drink to that |
| 23:06.52 | ``Erik | um, the bezier widget shtuff can't wrk with tk8.4 |
| 23:07.22 | ``Erik | thing: scheme. or lithp. It'll expand your mind in ways you didn't imagine possibile, it's the LSD of languages :D |
| 23:08.56 | thing0 | lol |
| 23:09.02 | thing0 | nice "Erik |
| 23:09.06 | thing0 | thanks for that |
| 23:09.10 | thing0 | I will look into them |