| 00:00.04 | jasta | just like they do with PC software. |
| 00:00.07 | jasta | (for any of you that have never done it, it's very simple.) |
| 00:00.15 | plusminus_ | That selling/anti-piracy-thing is really new for my, I'm 100% unexperienced... that sux. |
| 00:00.39 | jasta | anti-piracy is largely a waste of time. price your product correctly and you won't see a problem. |
| 00:00.51 | jasta | price your product absurdly high and you will see it happen rampantly, and you won't be able to stop it. |
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| 00:02.21 | plusminus_ | hm 10$ are worth looking for a crack? |
| 00:02.38 | plusminus_ | if 100 people do so, thats hell of money for me!! |
| 00:02.43 | jasta | don't ask me. |
| 00:08.48 | tomgibara | piracy is not necessarily a negative - look at the rise of Microsoft |
| 00:09.20 | plusminus_ | ^^ you mean like, it spreads like a virus? |
| 00:10.30 | tomgibara | I mean that it can entrench a product and make it a defacto standard |
| 00:10.46 | tomgibara | I also think there's an odd psychology present |
| 00:11.00 | plusminus_ | hm good point |
| 00:11.17 | tomgibara | People will value an illegal copy of a piece of expensive software more than they will a legal copy of free software |
| 00:11.26 | tomgibara | even if the free software is better in every regard |
| 00:11.44 | plusminus_ | bc of being the bad guy |
| 00:11.46 | plusminus_ | ^^ |
| 00:11.49 | tomgibara | somehow they feel as though they have 'gained' the monetary value of the copied software |
| 00:12.02 | tomgibara | even though they have done no such thing of course |
| 00:12.27 | plusminus_ | the thing i fear is of that is: |
| 00:12.41 | plusminus_ | Someone got my app hacked/cracked whatever |
| 00:12.50 | tomgibara | which will happen |
| 00:13.13 | plusminus_ | when his friends have it, will he give them the cracked version, will they buy it then? |
| 00:13.20 | plusminus_ | the probably never buy it |
| 00:13.23 | tomgibara | no they won't |
| 00:13.42 | tomgibara | I think it comes down to a cost benefit analysis |
| 00:13.45 | plusminus_ | add some exponential growth to it |
| 00:13.51 | plusminus_ | probably |
| 00:13.55 | tomgibara | As jasta was hinting at: |
| 00:14.27 | tomgibara | Everything you add to make the sofwtare harder to copy will almost certainly have a negative impact on your paying users |
| 00:14.48 | plusminus_ | if the paying user does not see it= |
| 00:14.49 | plusminus_ | ? |
| 00:15.06 | tomgibara | There is a trade off there - and in my opinion it should be set very very much in the paying customers favour |
| 00:15.16 | tomgibara | What don't they see? |
| 00:15.30 | tomgibara | Extra network chatter, extra battery usage, extra code |
| 00:15.44 | tomgibara | everything you chose to do with an application has an impact |
| 00:16.20 | tomgibara | not to mention things like registration/logins etc. which have a direct impact on the users |
| 00:16.22 | jasta | even in terms of your time: the time you spend on these features is time you don't spend on better things |
| 00:16.28 | tomgibara | that oo |
| 00:16.30 | tomgibara | *too |
| 00:16.46 | jasta | also, again, do realize how easy piracy is even with the industry's leading efforts. |
| 00:17.08 | tomgibara | Again, in my case, I needed to make a registration system for Moseycode because ultimately the codes are a finite resource |
| 00:17.15 | tomgibara | But even then I agonized over it |
| 00:17.41 | plusminus_ | hm ok, so you would guess something simple that hurts the user at a minimum (bets would be nto at all) |
| 00:17.52 | tomgibara | Anything that gets between the user and the task they want to achieve with your application is a big negative |
| 00:18.48 | tomgibara | Well, this strays slightly into analyzing the "business model" |
| 00:19.27 | tomgibara | As soon as you are looking to raise revenue from an application, you are looking to take something away from the users of that application |
| 00:20.00 | tomgibara | and you need to form a proposition that is paletable to the users |
| 00:20.47 | tomgibara | This ignores the complication that you need to analyze the market and segment it |
| 00:21.09 | plusminus_ | thats what I don't have skills/time for |
| 00:21.26 | tomgibara | It's good that you recognize that |
| 00:21.44 | tomgibara | So the answer is probably not to sweat it |
| 00:21.56 | tomgibara | But don't take that as cast iron business advice! |
| 00:22.04 | tomgibara | Do you have employees? |
| 00:22.15 | tomgibara | Do you have shareholders? |
| 00:22.15 | plusminus_ | ^^ only my cat |
| 00:22.21 | tomgibara | Do you need the money to live? |
| 00:22.26 | plusminus_ | nope |
| 00:22.43 | tomgibara | Then absolutely don't stress about it :) |
| 00:22.52 | plusminus_ | but it could be a lot and i don't want to worry about it later on |
| 00:23.25 | tomgibara | My experience is that getting users - any users, let alone paying users - can be quite a struggle |
| 00:23.35 | tomgibara | so be grateful when someone pirates your application |
| 00:23.41 | plusminus_ | :D |
| 00:23.41 | tomgibara | it's free marketting |
| 00:24.35 | tomgibara | It increases the number of people who are interested in seeing it improve (which won't be all the people who copy it, most probably won't even use it) |
| 00:25.03 | tomgibara | It means that when you bring out the next version, more people might be interested in upgrading |
| 00:25.33 | plusminus_ | hm so maybe think of anti-piracy later on. |
| 00:25.57 | tomgibara | There's a real irony about piracy |
| 00:26.45 | plusminus_ | Let it be 100 Million Android-Phones. I think 10% would use it for navigation. and 1% of them chooses my app. Thats still 100000 customers. |
| 00:27.03 | plusminus_ | *stunning* |
| 00:27.07 | tomgibara | Suppose your application is wildly popular and copied a great deal - you might find yourself owning the most popular mobile phone sat-nav application in Germany |
| 00:27.12 | plusminus_ | you think thats realistic ? |
| 00:27.18 | tomgibara | That makes it extremely valuable |
| 00:28.19 | tomgibara | The piracy (within reason) ends up making many application more valuable |
| 00:28.51 | tomgibara | realistic: not on a short time scale |
| 00:30.07 | tomgibara | Again, please take this only as an informal suggestion, but you should sell the software through a limited company (or the german equivalent) |
| 00:30.13 | tomgibara | Gmbh? |
| 00:30.54 | plusminus_ | think so |
| 00:31.01 | tomgibara | The first person who crashes into a bollard because your application crashed might sue |
| 00:31.08 | plusminus_ | I'd need 25000 ⬠if I remember right |
| 00:31.26 | tomgibara | wow, it's a few hundred pounds in the UK |
| 00:32.23 | plusminus_ | "Under German law, the GmbH must have a minimum founding capital of â¬25,000, of which 25% or at least â¬12,500 has to be contributed by its members..." |
| 00:33.22 | plusminus_ | Got a idea from the groups: |
| 00:33.29 | plusminus_ | "Another approach would be if some Android app stores signed the APKs based on the IMEI, so if you buy it from the store, you can only use your downloaded APK on that device." |
| 00:33.52 | plusminus_ | thats the kind of complexity I've been looking for :) |
| 00:34.18 | plusminus_ | easy and probably still crackable |
| 00:34.22 | tomgibara | yes as jasta pointed out, that can easily be cracked |
| 00:35.01 | tomgibara | and you're going to really annoy the users who's phones breakdown and need to be repaired |
| 00:35.27 | plusminus_ | there will be solutions for that |
| 00:35.47 | plusminus_ | as the 'Store' will remember that you bought the app |
| 00:35.51 | tomgibara | and probably dozens of other situations could arise |
| 00:36.05 | tomgibara | which means I need an account at the store? |
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| 00:36.45 | plusminus_ | you surely need to get charged to buy any app, what means you need an account |
| 00:36.52 | plusminus_ | .. at the store |
| 00:37.13 | tomgibara | Not if you used paypal (just as an example, I'm not advocating it) |
| 00:37.34 | plusminus_ | I don't think there will be a anonymous way (whereas it is possible of cours) |
| 00:38.04 | plusminus_ | I don't think T-Mobile will leave out that chance... |
| 00:38.08 | tomgibara | yes, so now I need a username (or my mobile no.?), a password, an individually 'signed' apk - tied to one phone... |
| 00:38.15 | plusminus_ | (whatever the other carries will do) |
| 00:38.58 | plusminus_ | :( I just want rais anti-piracy above a copy-paste complexity :( |
| 00:39.27 | tomgibara | :) Every comercial software vendor does |
| 00:39.52 | tomgibara | This is a key reason why the iPhone app store has been such a success |
| 00:40.19 | tomgibara | It's simple for users and protective of the application distribution |
| 00:41.10 | plusminus_ | what about installing a Appstore-App on a "repaired phone" |
| 00:41.52 | tomgibara | I assume that the user has an account with apple via the activation process |
| 00:42.07 | tomgibara | the new phone gets activated by the user |
| 00:42.20 | tomgibara | the purchased applications are tied to the account |
| 00:43.23 | tomgibara | The point is that the account is a single aggrevation for user that then aggregates all the apps |
| 00:43.38 | plusminus_ | thats pretty much the same as the signed-apk idea, which is also bound to the store-account |
| 00:43.55 | plusminus_ | hm maybe we will have something similar too |
| 00:43.57 | plusminus_ | ? |
| 00:44.52 | tomgibara | Yes, perhaps, I'm happy to just wait and see what's unveiled |
| 00:45.22 | plusminus_ | I've got to get some sleep now ^^ 3am is approaching |
| 00:45.32 | plusminus_ | thx for the thoughts :) |
| 00:45.34 | tomgibara | me too, gn |
| 00:45.37 | tomgibara | np |
| 00:45.40 | plusminus_ | gn |
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| 02:19.59 | yakischloba | sigh my motorola q is toast it looks like :( |
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| 02:48.55 | jasta | working on rounding out my solitaire game so that it's actually a product. |
| 02:49.11 | jasta | hopefully Google didn't also write a better solitaire engine :) |
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| 03:05.34 | duey | jasta: you will need to make it location based if you want to win |
| 03:05.49 | jasta | hehe |
| 03:06.06 | jasta | just writing it for fun, of course. |
| 03:17.47 | jasta | i just wanted to actually go beyond just demonstrating it working. |
| 03:18.00 | jasta | i hate leaving projects like that. i like fore verything i start to be something i'd be OK putting in front of a typical user. |
| 03:18.43 | jasta | also, my girlfriend has high requirements for a Klondike game. It must be configurable to have 1 card turns, unlimited stock deals, unlimited undo, and have a "fun" animation when you win. |
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| 03:38.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | howdy |
| 03:38.42 | jasta | ltns :) |
| 03:39.03 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) |
| 03:39.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | was a little busy |
| 03:39.34 | michaelnovakjr__ | i see you were too :) |
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| 05:43.10 | jasta | wow, i just wrote a ton of code to have all that work first try |
| 05:43.21 | jasta | totally gutted and refactored the entire engine |
| 05:43.31 | jasta | as far as the android stuff, anyway, not the basic card model |
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| 05:43.33 | jasta | but still, wow. |
| 05:44.27 | anno^da_ | good morning guys |
| 05:45.22 | jasta | morning |
| 05:45.35 | anno^da | ah morning jasta |
| 05:45.49 | anno^da | which app did you rewrite ? Five ? |
| 05:45.58 | jasta | no no, just my Solitaire engine. |
| 05:46.27 | jasta | it's not just a Solitaire game, it's kind of like Aisleriot for GNOME. An engine that supports any number of solitaire game rules |
| 05:46.39 | jasta | currently Klondike is fully supported and playable. |
| 05:47.09 | anno^da | ah cool :). Well I dont know the rules of Solitaire that good. :) |
| 05:47.10 | jasta | though Klondike is the lamest of them all. Freecell is next, but it will be one of the harder ones to support. |
| 05:47.18 | anno^da | Are there a lot of rules for Solitaire ? |
| 05:47.23 | jasta | oh yes. |
| 05:47.26 | anno^da | different ones |
| 05:47.44 | anno^da | well thats cool. |
| 05:47.50 | jasta | aisleriot supports like a hundred |
| 05:48.28 | anno^da | awesome I havent thought that there are so much different ones |
| 05:48.51 | jasta | basically, Solitaire is any card 1 player card game. |
| 05:48.54 | jasta | So, you can imagine there are lots. |
| 05:49.03 | anno^da | You could think about some multiplayer rules. Playing card games against others from the mobile would be great. |
| 05:49.23 | jasta | there's freecell (my favorite), spider, golf, pyramid, eight off, etc... |
| 05:49.40 | jasta | yeah, but i don't really want to implement something that complicated right now. just solitaire. :) |
| 05:49.45 | anno^da | :D |
| 05:49.50 | anno^da | basically, Solitaire is any card 1 player card game. <-- didnt know that. |
| 05:49.56 | jasta | i just got sick of waiting for the next SDK, so i decided to write something that won't need to be updated much once it comes out. |
| 05:50.13 | jasta | i meant any 1 player card game. don't know why i put card in there twice :) |
| 05:50.58 | anno^da | :) |
| 05:51.00 | jasta | anno^da: Freecell is fun. It's somewhat like Klondike except all cards are dealt face-up, and you get 4 free cells (slots to put cards). All the legal moves are the same, though. |
| 05:51.15 | jasta | But actually the only way to move cards is to move them through the free cells. |
| 05:51.18 | anno^da | Is there some APK up for testing ? |
| 05:51.28 | jasta | So if you have all 4 cells open, you can move a stack of 5 cards. |
| 05:51.34 | jasta | If you only have 1 cell open, you can only move a stack of 2 cards. |
| 05:52.04 | gambler | write a poker client that catches on and you will make sick good money |
| 05:52.07 | jasta | And if you run out of free cells and have no moves, you lose. But, it's entirely deterministic. An AI for example could perfectly solve almost every deal. |
| 05:52.29 | jasta | (In a 52 card deck, Freecell has 8 possible deals which are unwinnable) |
| 05:52.34 | anno^da | write a poker client that catches on and you will make sick good money <- true :) |
| 05:52.42 | anno^da | but it has to be online ;) |
| 05:52.45 | jasta | gambler: There's no APK, but the code is available from Subversion at android-random.googlecode.com |
| 05:52.48 | jasta | it builds clean. |
| 05:53.09 | gambler | not my cup of tea to develop that app, but id be a customer of it |
| 05:53.17 | anno^da | ah cool. Then I have to retry getting the SVN into Eclipse. |
| 05:53.55 | jasta | anno^da: i'm doing major restructuring right now to make it apparent to the user that multiple rules are supported. |
| 05:54.00 | jasta | right now it just appears to be a very simple Klondike game. |
| 05:54.03 | jasta | (but it isn't *grin*) |
| 05:54.33 | anno^da | Well that is great. |
| 05:54.42 | jasta | I thought about a cool feature the other day too. An option to force the engine to only deal you winnable games. |
| 05:54.58 | jasta | So that if you fail to win a deal, you can redeal and keep playing with confidence that it *CAN* be won. |
| 05:55.02 | anno^da | Do you get the SVN input with the standard svn console tools or with a plugin in eclipse ? |
| 05:55.22 | jasta | anno^da: I personally do most of my dev with the command-line svn client, vim, and maven. |
| 05:55.36 | anno^da | ok. |
| 05:55.41 | jasta | I use the Eclim vim plugin, though. But all that does is give me the nice code complete, and junk. |
| 05:56.31 | gambler | would maven appeal to non java projects? |
| 05:57.06 | gambler | free software needs something better than GNU autotools thats for sure |
| 05:57.18 | jasta | gambler: Not really, no. |
| 05:57.47 | jasta | gambler: i can assure you, for as bad as autotools may seem, it solves an incredible challenging problem and is the only project to do it correctly and completely. |
| 05:58.27 | jasta | why they chose to do most of it using m4 is a mystery to me, but the fact remains that it is an incredibly empowering project. |
| 05:58.40 | jasta | Java build environments, for the most part, are primitive and sucky by contrast. |
| 05:58.42 | gambler | it was great for its time ...which is past due imo |
| 05:59.16 | jasta | gambler: You mean the time when most UNIX flavors and systems have thousands of subtle differences? You think that's gone? :) |
| 05:59.44 | gambler | before linux/i386 killed them all |
| 06:00.00 | jasta | Yeah, right. |
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| 06:01.01 | jasta | Anyone that's ever tried to homebrew their own sophisticated build environment can attest to the nightmarish complexity that autotools made simple. |
| 06:04.53 | gambler | hehe |
| 06:14.05 | jasta | i hate when i get in thse moods where i can't think of what to listen to |
| 06:20.59 | gambler | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN13e8FTrJ8 |
| 06:21.25 | jasta | seriously? |
| 06:21.40 | gambler | mmm yep |
| 06:21.46 | gambler | u dont like it? |
| 06:21.50 | jasta | i am going to kill you |
| 06:21.59 | gambler | haha why |
| 06:22.29 | jasta | well first of all, apparentl you're a 15 year old girl and they bother me |
| 06:22.59 | jasta | second, are you really so easily fooled by this record industry pandering? capitol records new "bad girl". |
| 06:23.30 | gambler | red blooded man here ... i think the clip should demonstrate that |
| 06:24.06 | jasta | well sure if you mute it and pretend she's not just another infuriating airhead, yeah. |
| 06:24.39 | gambler | so your into intelligent women? what does your gf do work at CERN? |
| 06:25.14 | jasta | she's studying environmental engineering, and currently works at a geothermal energy startup in Seattle. |
| 06:26.04 | jasta | and i think it's a stretch to say i'm into supergenius women just because this sort of pandering doesn't work on me. |
| 06:26.31 | gambler | sounds like a good catch...some of us just happen to appreciate the er ...more superficial aspects of the female form |
| 06:27.56 | jasta | really, if you want to just oogle attractive women you should find ones that you don't have to suffer through their bad singing |
| 06:28.15 | jasta | everything about that chick has been engineered by the recording industry. she's more machine than human. |
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| 06:28.27 | gambler | i find that song pretty hot but it would be pretty interesting to see if I liked it with different lyrics |
| 06:28.40 | gambler | probably 80% drop in satisfaction if it was say about ...women's shoes |
| 06:29.42 | jasta | yeah, what would be more interesting to find out that a middle-aged man wrote it or something like that. |
| 06:29.55 | gambler | probably a 40 year old jewish guy |
| 06:29.59 | jasta | almost certainly |
| 06:30.01 | gambler | haha yeah |
| 06:30.17 | jasta | and she isn't even singing it, of course. |
| 06:30.39 | jasta | no American pop singers actually sing. they use something called a pitch corrector, which now even works real-time for concerts and stuff so they don't have to lip sync anymore. |
| 06:33.13 | jasta | i don't know about you but i try not to reward talentless hacks. |
| 06:33.15 | anno^da | pitch correctors are working pretty awesome :P |
| 06:34.19 | jasta | anno^da: what? |
| 06:35.09 | gambler | http://www.kontraband.com/videos/12463/Iraqi-Gangster-Boy/ |
| 06:36.51 | anno^da | jasta: all I wanted to say is that you are right with what you are saying. The pitch correctors are working that good that a normal music listener wouldnt realize the faked voice. |
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| 06:41.41 | jasta | anno^da: most people i think are coming to PREFER the sound. |
| 06:41.45 | jasta | they like that kind weird robot-like voice |
| 06:41.57 | jasta | mostly because they're idiots and i hate them too :) |
| 06:43.12 | anno^da | :D. Oh well I'm so with you in that point. |
| 06:43.20 | anno^da | But I dont really care about them. |
| 06:44.09 | anno^da | Why should I hate them. It is just a waste of energy. |
| 06:48.27 | anno^da | I just enjoy listening my music. |
| 06:49.26 | anno^da | And I would die if could only listen to the 10 songs being looped at the radio/tv stations. |
| 06:51.21 | jasta | what do you like, if you don't mind? |
| 06:51.50 | anno^da | What music I like ? |
| 06:52.56 | jasta | yeah |
| 06:53.20 | anno^da | mmh well State Radio, Dispatch, Xavier Rudd, Dave Matthews Band, Nicholas Barron, Andrew White, Barenaked Ladies, Bishop Allen, Newton Faulkner... |
| 06:53.35 | anno^da | ahh and I love the John Butler Trio |
| 06:53.41 | jasta | i just meant what type of music, but yeah i get the gist :) |
| 06:54.06 | jasta | I clearly lean toward indie rock, mostly of British influences. |
| 06:54.16 | anno^da | Ahh :) well I like the accoustic stuff. |
| 06:54.40 | anno^da | But I'm not really fixed to that. |
| 06:54.48 | jasta | Recently I'm into The Airborne Toxic Event, The National, Cloud Cult, ... |
| 06:55.14 | anno^da | ah cool. I've looked at your last fm site days ago. |
| 06:55.18 | jasta | My all-time favorite band is Minus The Bear though, an experimental indie band from Seattle (my home town) |
| 06:56.02 | anno^da | But I wouldnt call me the guy that is just listening to indie music. And refusing to hear "main stream" (whatever this is ) music |
| 06:56.41 | jasta | I don't feel bad saying that I categorically reject American pop music :) |
| 06:57.00 | anno^da | :D |
| 06:57.14 | anno^da | Ok well 3 doors down is also some kind of pop music |
| 06:57.17 | anno^da | :) |
| 06:57.20 | jasta | Everything about it is so terrible. I can't believe we even call that music. Where it's common place that artists don't write their lyrics, the song, anything. They just put on skimpy outfits and wave their arms around on TV. |
| 06:57.35 | anno^da | true |
| 06:57.49 | jasta | My mom once seriously said "Well come on, most artists don't write their own music." |
| 06:58.05 | jasta | I quipped back "No, most do, just not the crap you listen to." :) |
| 06:58.20 | anno^da | thats it |
| 06:58.28 | anno^da | There is soo much great music out there. |
| 06:58.41 | anno^da | But most people hear the 10 songs looped in the radio. |
| 06:58.56 | anno^da | the marketing machines running ;) |
| 06:59.11 | jasta | I don't hate music just because it's popular, I recognize that a lot of the music I like is hugely popular in certain regions. |
| 06:59.22 | jasta | It's just American pop in particular. *eww*. |
| 06:59.41 | gambler | is this music good or evil http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42ePU7O5q0s |
| 06:59.52 | anno^da | It's not the music I hate it is just the way it is created. |
| 07:00.45 | anno^da | gambler: it's not about good and evil I would say |
| 07:02.32 | anno^da | It is about people sold for the industries needs. And the bad thing about that is that they dont even recognize being abused for making more and more money. |
| 07:02.53 | anno^da | It is not about making music it is about making money. |
| 07:03.16 | jasta | anno^da: the music industry has a LOT of people fooled. |
| 07:03.41 | anno^da | How to create the music that fits best in the markeing concept. |
| 07:03.42 | gambler | anno^da, thats the capitalist society most of us who are fortunate enough to own computers live in |
| 07:03.54 | jasta | the RIAA's primary job, for example, is to promote and distribute music. that's generally in the form of CD sales, where their profit comes from. Artists see virtually no profit from CD sales. |
| 07:04.08 | jasta | Artists make money also as a side effect of the RIAA making money: concerts and merchandise. |
| 07:04.13 | gambler | anno^da, take a look at the rest of the world bro ... people at like a caveman level of development due to their crazy other ideas or incompetent leaders |
| 07:04.26 | jasta | Despite the highest profit margins coming from the record sales themselves. |
| 07:04.33 | jasta | (and thats why its the RIAAs cut) |
| 07:04.42 | anno^da | incompetent leaders ... Bush ? |
| 07:04.50 | gambler | well the net is changing the media distribution system |
| 07:05.30 | anno^da | sorry but I can't take that serious. There are definetly incompetent leaders. But I wouldnt say that with a leader called Mr. Bush. |
| 07:06.18 | gambler | there are heaps of opportunities right now to change the entire media distribution paradigm |
| 07:06.31 | gambler | it will happen eventually because the market will make it happen |
| 07:06.31 | anno^da | gambler: thats right. |
| 07:07.19 | jasta | FYI, if you want to make that happen faster, pirate CDs, buy concert tickets. |
| 07:07.29 | jasta | buy t-shirts when you go to those concerts too. |
| 07:07.34 | gambler | until then I'll be watching premium content like this for free: http://cakefarts.com |
| 07:07.56 | gambler | i hate concerts ...they too loud for me |
| 07:08.18 | jasta | it is a very common practice to wear earplugs at concerts. |
| 07:08.25 | anno^da | haha thats a point I dislike too. |
| 07:08.28 | jasta | for some people it makes the experience much more enjoyable |
| 07:08.42 | anno^da | Yeah but that cant be to go over 120 dbA and more |
| 07:09.05 | jasta | anno^da: what do yo umean? |
| 07:09.37 | anno^da | I mean that you dont need music that is louder than 120 dbA |
| 07:10.00 | jasta | Right, so put earplugs in like I said. They usually sell them at the concerts, or you can get very nice comfortable ones ahead of time. |
| 07:10.09 | anno^da | I wear earplus but it would be more enjoyable to be not forced to wear some. |
| 07:10.25 | jasta | Some people like the energy of very loud music. |
| 07:10.31 | anno^da | Oh well I have great ear plugs. :) |
| 07:10.31 | romainguy | http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2008/08/tunewiki_audio_for_google_android_looks_very_impressive-2.html |
| 07:10.32 | romainguy | nice |
| 07:11.19 | anno^da | jasta: sure but there is a boarder. They like it because they injured there ears :) |
| 07:11.21 | jasta | romainguy: btw, how is this not against the terms of the NDA? |
| 07:11.36 | jasta | romainguy: that is a video taken from a private build. |
| 07:11.47 | romainguy | jasta: didn't you use an SDK you were not supposed to have? :)) |
| 07:11.50 | romainguy | the answer is pretty simple |
| 07:12.02 | romainguy | they just asked for the permission to publish this video |
| 07:12.08 | jasta | romainguy: and i was distributed it in violation of the NDA. someone can get in a lot of trouble for that. |
| 07:12.19 | jasta | not me, because i didn't do anything wrong ;) |
| 07:12.27 | anno^da | :P |
| 07:12.36 | jasta | i complied with the distribution terms, the ADC winner didn't. *grin* |
| 07:12.50 | romainguy | that doesn't make it more morally acceptable :) |
| 07:12.51 | romainguy | anyway |
| 07:13.38 | gambler | no offense jasta but its pretty gay you get a sneak peak and the rest of us suffer |
| 07:13.47 | gambler | maybe i should whine nonstop for 2 months |
| 07:13.53 | jasta | gambler: Well it would be illegal for me to send it to you. |
| 07:14.12 | jasta | gambler: I didn't get a sneak peek btw, some retard in the top 50 winners accidentally published it. |
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| 07:14.39 | anno^da | accidentally :P |
| 07:15.20 | gambler | jasta, well if you gave me an jailboxed ssh account on your machine so that I could review it without copying it...that probably wouldnt be a violation of copyright...and since I doubt you signed any contracts... |
| 07:15.22 | jasta | I chose not to redistribute it for two reasons: a) it's against Google's copyright for me to do so, and b) if watermarked, the source of the leak could be identified and he/she could have winnings revoked and possibly be sued by the almight Google. |
| 07:15.51 | gambler | you could have published the link to the person who accidentally distributed it |
| 07:16.06 | jasta | gambler: the link no longer works. |
| 07:16.23 | gambler | yah i know |
| 07:16.38 | jasta | gambler: Let me just say that you aren't missing much. |
| 07:17.48 | gambler | meh whatever ... |
| 07:17.55 | gambler | goes back to watching http://cakefarts.com |
| 07:27.37 | anno^da | haha androidguys.com is guessing once more what will happen :) |
| 07:29.16 | jasta | androidguys will rot your brain. don't read that crap :) |
| 07:30.04 | anno^da | oh well its funny to see all the rumours floating around :) |
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| 10:50.47 | alex2308 | those rumor sources are good |
| 10:51.01 | jasta | what rumor? what rumor sources? |
| 10:51.59 | alex2308 | http://androidguys.com/2008/08/15/starting-to-believe/ |
| 10:53.31 | jasta | why would you think they are good? |
| 10:54.33 | alex2308 | theyre pointing new dates and names |
| 10:54.40 | alex2308 | so i guess there is something behind it |
| 10:54.41 | jasta | and that makes the rumors true? |
| 10:54.44 | alex2308 | but im not sure |
| 10:54.55 | jasta | sounds to me like it's just some T-Mobile nobody blabbing about the nothing that he knows. |
| 10:55.30 | jasta | by the way, that totally sucks T-Mobile is carrying the first devices. They do not currently even have a 3G network. |
| 10:55.55 | jasta | they're expected to roll it out probably along with Android, but then we get a brand new OS running on a brand new network (only in select cities). *ugh* |
| 10:57.12 | alex2308 | yeah, thats a shame |
| 10:57.17 | alex2308 | i didnt knew that |
| 10:57.26 | alex2308 | we have a very high 3g coverage here in germany |
| 10:57.29 | jasta | actually, T-Mobile is one of the worst carries in the US |
| 10:58.05 | jasta | AT&T and Verizon are clear champions here, and of course they want nothing to do with Android. |
| 10:58.55 | alex2308 | major mistake id say |
| 10:58.59 | jasta | We use Sprint at work, and my girlfriend used T-Mobile for years. All over Seattle metro she would have very weak or no service in certain places where I had full 3G data on AT&T. |
| 10:59.12 | alex2308 | android will boost internet use on mobile devices, thats a big market |
| 10:59.21 | jasta | And even in our office in Seattle proper, Sprint gives us 1 bar voice, no data. |
| 10:59.55 | jasta | It's just frustrating that in order to get onboard with Android I have to intentionally sign up for the worst carrier around. |
| 11:00.31 | jasta | There's no hope of even being able to just unlock the phone and drop it onto AT&T's network either. Because apparently the Android market will depend on T-Mobile services. |
| 11:00.35 | alex2308 | i believe it wont be simlocked/netlocked as android is open/free |
| 11:01.23 | jasta | alex2308: Google's part is open/free, and distributed under a license which would allow carriers and manufacturers to lock the devices down quite a lot. |
| 11:01.57 | jasta | Google has also made no committments as to the level of openness we'll see after the carriers get their grimey hands on it. I encourage you to make no assumptions there. |
| 11:02.03 | alex2308 | true, but i think you could cook your own ROM |
| 11:02.18 | jasta | alex2308: Possibly, and by doing so you may cripple the device. |
| 11:02.50 | jasta | And as I said, it's been rumored that Android's "Market" app is really T-Mobile's recent announcement of a general purpose App Store |
| 11:03.08 | jasta | If true (and it seems quite reasonable that it is), then Android's app market will be unavailable on other carriers. |
| 11:03.22 | jasta | Seriously hurting the value of moving it to another carrier. |
| 11:03.38 | jasta | So, as has been said before, all this looks like Business As Usual (TM) for the wireless carriers. |
| 11:03.53 | alex2308 | imho the device is much more dependent on google services than providers, but thats just my opinion |
| 11:04.21 | jasta | alex2308: We don't know what it will depend on. Google's official policy is that the carriers can replace whatever they want. |
| 11:04.27 | jasta | And if they have the ambition to do so, they likely will. |
| 11:05.27 | jasta | Fortunately on that front we have the carriers typical ineptitude on our side. They are likely too bumbling to produce quality applications that could reasonably replace Google's. |
| 11:07.16 | alex2308 | thats true |
| 11:08.53 | jasta | It's frustrating how this industry works. |
| 11:10.53 | alex2308 | i wanna be in it |
| 11:12.11 | jasta | How old are you? |
| 11:13.04 | alex2308 | 26 |
| 11:13.38 | jasta | Well, now's a pretty good time to jump. |
| 11:14.39 | alex2308 | im starting my MBA in 2 months |
| 11:14.58 | jasta | you're not an SE? |
| 11:18.11 | alex2308 | computer science |
| 11:18.39 | jasta | that puts a lot of things into perspective :) |
| 11:19.41 | alex2308 | hm, which? |
| 11:20.32 | jasta | well, you never struck me as an engineer. i didn't even think you were working with Android at all. |
| 11:21.27 | alex2308 | software engineer? never wanted to be one, i dont even code much |
| 11:21.54 | jasta | right. i could tell ;) |
| 11:22.13 | alex2308 | i did code a porn downloader last night :p |
| 11:27.59 | jasta | so what do you want to do? just get some cushy middle management gig? |
| 11:28.36 | alex2308 | atm privacy consulting but im switching to security consulting |
| 11:28.52 | jasta | what experience do you have in that area? |
| 11:29.54 | alex2308 | just private interests and a bit work experience, im a junior |
| 11:30.23 | jasta | do you have your BS in CS already? |
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| 11:30.38 | alex2308 | yes |
| 11:31.28 | jasta | getting an MBA won't help you do that. i mean, it won't help you be the guy with any of the answers, though there may still be a place for you somewhere in the industry. |
| 11:32.02 | jasta | getting an MBA just helps you blend in with the furniture. nobody will wonder why you're on the payroll, but you won't be expected to do anything useful. pretty sweet, i imagine. |
| 11:32.21 | alex2308 | the MBA is for further positions inside the enterprise, you wont reach high positions without basic knowledge about business |
| 11:32.39 | alex2308 | true, no work and a lot money |
| 11:33.04 | jasta | i assume that's attractive to you? |
| 11:33.15 | alex2308 | ofc |
| 11:33.26 | jasta | ofc? of course? |
| 11:33.59 | alex2308 | ofc=of cource |
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| 11:34.53 | jasta | so do you actually have any interest in real technical implications of the industry you work? |
| 11:35.22 | alex2308 | depends |
| 11:36.01 | alex2308 | im very interested in security related topics, but i dont care much about hardware and i dont want to be a software engineer |
| 11:36.12 | jasta | i've encountered a lot of the types you seem to be in my career. my former boss was one of them. upper management finally fired him. |
| 11:36.41 | jasta | so what sort of security field were you looking to be in? steel bars and the like? :) |
| 11:36.52 | jasta | hand guns, billy clubs, etc... :) |
| 11:37.03 | anno^da_ | lol |
| 11:37.33 | anno^da_ | jasta would be the right guy for doing job interviews |
| 11:37.35 | anno^da_ | :) |
| 11:37.47 | alex2308 | from the point of view of a SE maybe :) |
| 11:37.57 | alex2308 | but thats not the way HR looks at it |
| 11:38.07 | jasta | the way HR looks at it is wrong, and everyone knows it. |
| 11:38.31 | jasta | HR just hires people they get along with, and who they can identify with. |
| 11:38.43 | alex2308 | and the guy still was your boss and maybe he is a boss on a different company now |
| 11:38.48 | jasta | and since HR types are of a particular sort, they only seem to be good at hiring other HR people. |
| 11:39.55 | jasta | alex2308: It all depends on what's important to you. To some, it's money and power. To others, it's integrity and respect. |
| 11:40.27 | alex2308 | i take money and power then |
| 11:40.42 | alex2308 | with money and power comes respect |
| 11:40.46 | anno^da_ | lol |
| 11:40.47 | jasta | lol, what!? |
| 11:40.48 | anno^da_ | not really |
| 11:41.21 | jasta | alex2308: Do you generally find that you respect people with more money than you? |
| 11:41.25 | jasta | By that fact alone |
| 11:41.27 | anno^da_ | having money is far away from getting respect |
| 11:41.40 | alex2308 | the management guys threat each other that way |
| 11:41.57 | alex2308 | ofc not the SEs |
| 11:42.08 | jasta | That's a funny way of looking at things. |
| 11:42.21 | alex2308 | it really depends on the poc |
| 11:42.23 | alex2308 | *pov |
| 11:42.29 | jasta | Threatening good employees is not advantageous. |
| 11:42.47 | alex2308 | i dont like bill gates but i respect the way he built up MS |
| 11:42.47 | jasta | It is never a good idea, nor will it work to your immediate or long-term best interests. |
| 11:43.25 | anno^da_ | Threatening employees will never be the right way. |
| 11:43.36 | jasta | Then why did you just advocate it? |
| 11:43.50 | jasta | Err, misread ;) |
| 11:43.54 | anno^da_ | :) |
| 11:43.55 | jasta | Sorry anno^da_ |
| 11:44.04 | anno^da_ | np jasta |
| 11:44.55 | anno^da_ | In fact they work for you and you as a manager depend on their performance. |
| 11:45.27 | alex2308 | thats why i wouldnt threat them |
| 11:45.37 | jasta | And, more often than not if they think you're an obstacle, they'll just placate and lie to you, giving you absolutely no power whatsoever. |
| 11:46.10 | jasta | This is especially easy to do if the manager is inept and uninformed. |
| 11:46.50 | alex2308 | thats how both parties deal with each other |
| 11:46.56 | alex2308 | admins are happy because they control things |
| 11:47.04 | alex2308 | manager is happy cause he gets more money |
| 11:47.24 | jasta | by the way, i asked you how old you were earlier because i thought you were in high school hehe. |
| 11:47.26 | alex2308 | just depends whats more important to you, as someone sad before ;) |
| 11:47.47 | jasta | your glib interpreation of the world reminds me of teenagers. |
| 11:47.49 | alex2308 | thanks, i use anti aging creme daily :) i knew it works |
| 11:47.58 | jasta | interpretation* |
| 11:48.16 | alex2308 | well, it seems to work quite well as i have some job offers |
| 11:48.51 | jasta | does that make you feel special? what is the unemployment rate in your country? |
| 11:49.08 | anno^da_ | not really high in this sector :) |
| 11:49.27 | alex2308 | extremely low :) |
| 11:49.28 | jasta | So 1 minus that number is how just like everyone else you are. |
| 11:49.59 | alex2308 | true, but i see me earning more than other computer science colleagues |
| 11:50.06 | alex2308 | and doing less :D |
| 11:50.16 | jasta | That isn't a win you fool. |
| 11:50.19 | anno^da_ | To base your satisfaction on money and job offers cant be the right way. |
| 11:50.41 | alex2308 | maybe in your point of view |
| 11:51.01 | jasta | What are you going to do with all that money, then? What problem in your life is it going to help you solve? |
| 11:51.54 | anno^da_ | It is satisfaction for him. :-) |
| 11:51.55 | alex2308 | youre a buddhist monk or something? you dislike money? |
| 11:52.19 | jasta | No, I actually have a very good career. |
| 11:52.25 | anno^da_ | alex2308: The point is why should I need more money than the money I need. |
| 11:52.50 | anno^da_ | You can satisfaction from a lot more things than just money and career. |
| 11:52.54 | anno^da_ | +get |
| 11:52.56 | jasta | alex2308: I just don't find value in being a shallow, unenlightened person. I certainly am not going to intentionally pursue it. |
| 11:53.17 | alex2308 | whats your career? |
| 11:53.41 | jasta | I'm a software engineer. I think you could have guessed that. |
| 11:53.45 | alex2308 | anno^da_ i prefer money and power. as i said |
| 11:53.58 | alex2308 | so whats your career then? |
| 11:54.10 | alex2308 | you started as a SE and you will end up as a SE? |
| 11:54.30 | jasta | alex2308: Is that how you think that works? |
| 11:54.31 | anno^da_ | lol career for alex2308 means getting higher and higher and at the end you die. |
| 11:54.43 | anno^da_ | Thats a valuable life. :-) |
| 11:55.29 | anno^da_ | At the end you have millions of dollars a lot of houses in which you never really lived in and that's it. |
| 11:55.37 | jasta | alex2308: If I so desire, I can move all the way up to CTO if I wanted. Some day I would like to wind up as a director of engineering, though. |
| 11:55.42 | alex2308 | anno^da_ yes |
| 11:56.10 | anno^da_ | Yeah it is ok for me if it is your way. :) |
| 11:56.16 | jasta | But at 25 I am not particularly concerned with "rising to the top" as fast as possible. |
| 11:56.41 | anno^da_ | I'm different there are other things beside the job. |
| 11:57.01 | jasta | anno^da_: But just think, then he could marry a supermodel! hehe |
| 11:57.10 | jasta | And she could cheat on him, and take half his money. And probably leave him with herpes ;) |
| 11:57.19 | anno^da_ | Well yeah :P. |
| 11:57.24 | alex2308 | well, from my pov (studying different careers and loans) it seems a very good start to study CS and start as a junior consulter, then further advance in business (MBA) and go to management |
| 11:57.40 | alex2308 | youll end up earning more than others and doing not much more |
| 11:58.00 | jasta | I'm just going to end this conversation. |
| 11:58.05 | alex2308 | i have a nice gf |
| 11:58.05 | anno^da_ | :) |
| 11:58.13 | alex2308 | no need to leave her |
| 11:59.02 | jasta | It is 5 in the morning where I live hehe. I took tomorrow off too hehe |
| 11:59.10 | alex2308 | 2 pm here |
| 11:59.36 | anno^da_ | So I'm leaving now as well doing some fresh ice cream with the fruitds collected in the garden. (oh well thats an example for what makes live worthy for me. Just eating a cup of selfmade ice cream :) ) |
| 12:00.36 | alex2308 | ice cream? garden? whats this? ;) |
| 12:00.36 | jasta | anno^da_: For the last part of my mom's career at IBM she started negotiating for additional vacation rather than pay raises... |
| 12:00.48 | alex2308 | she should have done more home office ;) |
| 12:00.52 | jasta | Now, at 50, she has a little over 2 months a year. |
| 12:01.00 | jasta | alex2308: She has worked at home for the last 15 years. |
| 12:01.08 | jasta | She was one of the first employees at IBM to telecommute, in fact. |
| 12:01.13 | alex2308 | thats cool |
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| 12:01.58 | jasta | Seems a pretty good way to set things up. Much better than more money and some hollow sense of "power". |
| 12:02.19 | anno^da_ | Well it is. |
| 12:02.34 | alex2308 | it is for both of you, not me :) |
| 12:03.25 | jasta | Anyway, I'm off to bed. |
| 12:03.28 | anno^da_ | :) |
| 12:03.35 | anno^da_ | good night jasta |
| 12:03.38 | alex2308 | gn8 |
| 12:14.02 | anno^da_ | New York Times has now also taken up the latest rumours |
| 12:17.33 | anno^da_ | http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/15/technology/15google.html?ref=business# |
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| 12:46.26 | zhobbs | not so shaky tunewiki demo: http://gizmodo.com/5037290/tunewiki-audio-for-google-android-looks-very-impressive |
| 12:49.13 | alex2308 | looks very good |
| 12:49.55 | zhobbs | thanks |
| 12:55.58 | cutmasta | zhobbs, cool features |
| 12:56.05 | cutmasta | like music maps function |
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| 12:56.49 | alex2308 | share playlists might be another |
| 12:56.52 | zhobbs | cutmasta: yeah, it's cool to see what someone in japan is listening...can just pull up the youtube vid for that song, and even see it's lyrics in english |
| 12:57.00 | cutmasta | yapp |
| 12:57.08 | cutmasta | exactly |
| 12:57.17 | zhobbs | yeah, we didn't get as much done with the social stuff as we wanted |
| 12:57.34 | alex2308 | IM someone |
| 12:57.40 | cutmasta | social things are not the always the beste ones |
| 12:57.47 | alex2308 | find someone listing song x/having song x in playlist |
| 12:58.18 | zhobbs | cutmasta: yeah, we don't want it to be intrusive or mandatory |
| 12:58.38 | alex2308 | streaming music from your NAS/WWW/desktop might be another awesome feature (thx to apple) |
| 12:58.46 | cutmasta | yes |
| 12:58.49 | cutmasta | streaming |
| 12:58.54 | cutmasta | from source XYZ |
| 12:59.02 | cutmasta | when i am in my home wlan |
| 12:59.09 | cutmasta | i want to stream from my pc |
| 12:59.11 | zhobbs | yeah, we actually had that but cut it the day before the deadline |
| 12:59.13 | alex2308 | or when using 3G |
| 12:59.15 | cutmasta | when i sit in the garden |
| 12:59.32 | zhobbs | cause there was a MediaPlayer crash we couldn't figure out |
| 12:59.52 | alex2308 | btw, will it be free? |
| 12:59.55 | zhobbs | yes |
| 13:00.07 | alex2308 | customer++; |
| 13:01.22 | gambler | In AMERICA |
| 13:01.29 | zhobbs | gambler: ? |
| 13:01.31 | gambler | first you get the sugar |
| 13:01.41 | gambler | then you get de power |
| 13:01.50 | gambler | then you get the WOMEN |
| 13:02.08 | gambler | the golden rule baby |
| 13:02.15 | gambler | people with the gold make the rules |
| 13:02.18 | gambler | right alex2308 |
| 13:02.18 | alex2308 | afaik its a worldwide rule |
| 13:03.41 | gambler | btw i know jasta and annoda are gone now but they really shouldnt be so dismissive of supermodels |
| 13:03.53 | gambler | i highly reccomend them |
| 13:14.15 | gambler | I wish there was a firefox addon that could auto-encrypt/decrypt arbitrary text boxes according to a precached key, greasemonkey style. |
| 13:16.19 | alex2308 | you could write an app that does so |
| 13:17.53 | gambler | if I scratched every itch id never stop |
| 13:18.22 | gambler | gotta prioritize those...besides for something like that id prefer to pay someone |
| 13:19.03 | alex2308 | what kind of encryption and which OS? |
| 13:19.08 | alex2308 | how much would you pay? |
| 13:22.07 | gambler | firefox addons are cross platform...PCBC 3DES, blowfish and AES should be sufficient i suppose |
| 13:22.39 | gambler | probably overkill to just make sure web service companies arent reading my data :p |
| 13:22.39 | alex2308 | i'd code it in .NET |
| 13:23.11 | gambler | can you make it work with firefox? |
| 13:23.37 | alex2308 | could, but i dont get it |
| 13:23.42 | gambler | pretty sure firefox add-ons are C++ |
| 13:23.43 | alex2308 | you dont trust webservices? |
| 13:23.51 | alex2308 | theyre javascript afaik |
| 13:24.11 | alex2308 | if you dont trust webservices local encryption wont help you |
| 13:24.12 | gambler | i dont want a webservice. I want a firefox addon |
| 13:24.20 | alex2308 | you should use certificates on both sides then |
| 13:24.41 | gambler | you dont know much about security son ...i just want symmetric crypto |
| 13:25.01 | gambler | there is no 'Alice' |
| 13:25.09 | alex2308 | on your webserver? |
| 13:25.17 | alex2308 | why not use ssh tunnels then? |
| 13:26.07 | gambler | alex2308, maybe u misunderstood. im just looking for a way to use common webservices like (eg. google calendar) without actually giving up my privacy |
| 13:26.33 | gambler | webservice not in the RPC sense |
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| 13:26.46 | gambler | in the sense of a service for a customer |
| 13:27.10 | alex2308 | and how would you tell google calendar your password and encryption? |
| 13:27.10 | gambler | is that more clear? |
| 13:27.31 | gambler | alex2308, do you know what greasemonkey is? |
| 13:27.35 | alex2308 | no |
| 13:27.49 | gambler | if you find out, I think that will explain it |
| 13:28.38 | alex2308 | ive read the wikipedia article |
| 13:28.42 | alex2308 | its just local |
| 13:29.01 | yakischloba | morning |
| 13:29.05 | gambler | hi |
| 13:29.58 | gambler | alex2308, right. so on my side it says "Send those prostitutes to alex2308's house" but on google's server they have stored "#$%^&*SSDSSSSDSS!!! D&*@[41" |
| 13:30.17 | gambler | anyway forget it...it was just a thought |
| 13:30.46 | alex2308 | and they cant read it |
| 13:31.12 | gambler | right |
| 13:31.37 | gambler | because it encrypts before it POSTS and decrypts after it GETs but before it renders. |
| 13:32.07 | alex2308 | now i get it |
| 13:32.22 | alex2308 | you like the information to be stored encrypted on google servers, so google cant read it |
| 13:32.28 | gambler | [x] lightbulb |
| 13:32.34 | gambler | or any other company whos service i want to use |
| 13:32.40 | alex2308 | but you prefer to have it built into firefox, so there is nothing to worry about |
| 13:32.44 | gambler | not necessarily google |
| 13:33.23 | alex2308 | k. its too much work to do in .net, better do it using firefox addons, i guess(?) its easier |
| 13:33.31 | gambler | [ ] doesn't understand |
| 13:33.35 | gambler | [x] understands |
| 13:33.47 | gambler | righttttt |
| 13:34.22 | gambler | anyway i dont think your the man for the job :> your management material |
| 13:34.40 | alex2308 | haha |
| 13:34.58 | alex2308 | im money oriented, you said youd pay so you got me listening ^^ |
| 13:36.39 | alex2308 | but i can get you some chinese/indian coders to do the dirty work ^^ |
| 13:36.53 | zhobbs | looks at muthu |
| 13:37.47 | gambler | alex2308, ive got lots of chinese friends on MSN but thanks anyway |
| 13:37.53 | alex2308 | hehe ok |
| 13:38.22 | gambler | zhobbs, ? |
| 13:43.48 | zhobbs | gambler: ? |
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| 13:56.31 | gambler | actually found a FF extension that does it but its really cumbersome and manual |
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| 15:06.36 | plusminus_ | hm... |
| 15:08.08 | plusminus_ | If T-Mobile really releases the HTC-Android-"Dream" and I guess the "Market" will follow pretty soon, there has to be a new SDK even sooner ... :/ |
| 15:08.48 | plusminus_ | or what Apps will there be for download ^^ |
| 15:10.46 | alex2308 | around 50 apps id say ;) |
| 15:13.41 | plusminus_ | don't think so... |
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| 15:14.08 | xolve | hi |
| 15:14.43 | xolve | right now emulator doesn't support bluetooth. How can I check if my bluetooth app works fine? |
| 15:16.13 | alex2308 | sleep for a night or two |
| 15:18.15 | xolve | alex2308: ?? |
| 15:19.03 | alex2308 | and wait |
| 15:24.34 | xolve | alex2308: any other way, like looking the outpur through the console |
| 15:28.11 | xolve | *output |
| 15:32.49 | alex2308 | i dont know |
| 15:36.29 | xolve | alex2308: thanks |
| 15:43.16 | alex2308 | is off (WEEEEEKEEEEND) |
| 15:43.18 | alex2308 | l8er |
| 15:44.05 | yakischloba | yeah 'l8er' :) |
| 15:50.58 | gambler | at least you gave that guy some solid help |
| 15:52.28 | plusminus_ | ^^ |
| 15:53.22 | morrildl | quietly scratches out alex2308's name from his "hire for developer relations" list |
| 15:56.16 | plusminus_ | I'll send him that :P |
| 15:56.31 | gambler | lol |
| 15:57.03 | plusminus_ | to tease him :D |
| 15:57.20 | yakischloba | morrildl don't be so hasty, hes in the Enterprise Privacy Group for Deutsche Telekom! a heavy hitter |
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| 16:15.08 | yakischloba | lots of T-Mobile/HTC/Android articles this morning |
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| 17:21.53 | mrmime69 | is booting up |
| 17:22.45 | mrmime69 | anyone here |
| 17:22.48 | mrmime69 | ? |
| 17:28.13 | muthu | http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/8/an-early-gphone-review-android-is-powerful-but-no-iphone-goog-aapl- |
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| 17:34.07 | spykid | muthu: http://techmeme.com/ :D |
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| 17:35.42 | muthu | when's the exact date? |
| 17:36.11 | muthu | this is exciting! |
| 17:36.30 | yakischloba | I wish my phone could've waited another month or so to break. |
| 17:37.39 | muthu | i'm buying it from india.. hope it comes here soon |
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| 18:17.02 | anno^da_ | good evening |
| 18:17.08 | anno^da_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxnWUbJJnlE |
| 18:17.16 | anno^da_ | I love the Pandora guy *haha* |
| 18:18.15 | spykid | For "who cares about android"? This wasn't the Pandora guy |
| 18:19.38 | spykid | It was http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dummer_August |
| 18:20.09 | spykid | David Hornik, partner, August Capital |
| 18:20.28 | anno^da_ | ah thx. |
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| 18:20.41 | anno^da_ | Oh heise has also taken up the rumours. |
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| 18:30.20 | jasta | yawn |
| 18:41.22 | jasta | http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/8/an-early-gphone-review-android-is-powerful-but-no-iphone-goog-aapl -- hmm. |
| 18:42.25 | jasta | so how come the SDK didn't follow "release early, release often", but apparently the phones themselves will? *grin* |
| 18:46.59 | spykid | jasta: I'm quite sure that AlleyInsider didn't see the phone |
| 18:47.59 | jasta | i'm sure not, but don't you get that impression from M5? |
| 18:48.19 | jasta | Assuming that M5 is more or less what you get, with maybe some minor animation/graphics tweaks... |
| 18:48.58 | jasta | Seems like maybe they should have dumped another 6 months into it or so to polish once they got everything nailed down. |
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| 18:53.41 | jasta | hehe: http://xkcd.org/463/ |
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| 19:41.03 | jasta | that was weird |
| 19:41.16 | jasta | i think someone just tried to phish me, calling my cell phone directly to do it |
| 19:42.09 | jasta | some company called me regarding an "important business matter" and asked for the last _6_ of my social security # |
| 19:42.39 | jasta | i told them whatever they wanted to ask me they should notify me of via the mail, and then they claimed they didn't have my address. |
| 19:42.54 | anno^da_ | lol |
| 19:42.58 | anno^da_ | telephon spam :) |
| 19:43.00 | jasta | so i absically said "well, if you don't have my address, then i doubt we have any business together." and they happily accepted that |
| 19:44.14 | anno^da_ | Oh I've "won" millions of euros and a lot of cars on the telephon :P. I hate that companies selling private data. |
| 19:44.44 | jasta | anno^da_: well, in the US, it is illegal for telemarketers to use auto-dialers on cell phones. |
| 19:45.07 | jasta | so generally cell phone users do not get solicitors |
| 19:45.14 | jasta | i asked them if this was an unsolicited call and they said no. |
| 19:45.23 | anno^da_ | Well even in Germany it is illegal but they dont really care. |
| 19:45.35 | jasta | but then i don't know what they're talking about, and i'm not going to just randomly give out reall sensitive information like that |
| 19:45.57 | jasta | it is somewhat common for companies to ask for the last 4 of your social security for verification purposes |
| 19:46.00 | jasta | (even then i rarely give it out) |
| 19:46.10 | jasta | but the last 6 i've never heard of, so it right away felt fishy. |
| 19:46.12 | anno^da_ | Yeah I can understand that |
| 19:46.17 | jasta | and they wanted my birth date and last 6, which is a LOT of information. |
| 19:46.54 | jasta | hates giving out personal information. i outright refuse in most cases and have to fight with managers about it. |
| 19:47.13 | anno^da_ | Well yeah. But they will succed with a lot of other people. |
| 19:47.48 | anno^da_ | is looking at facebook and the people loving to give out every private information about them. |
| 19:48.04 | jasta | i once had a reservation at a hotel in some nowhere town and they asked for my social security number, in full. i refused, fought with the manager, and eventually had to go find another place to stay. |
| 19:48.32 | anno^da_ | well but from my point of view it was worth searching a new hotel |
| 19:49.16 | jasta | the real problem, as i see it, is that this information is entirely too powerful. |
| 19:49.44 | jasta | having a personal relationship with someone will give you like 90% of the information you need to rip them off. |
| 19:49.56 | jasta | knowing their birth date, address, full name, etc. |
| 19:50.04 | anno^da_ | true. |
| 19:50.11 | jasta | you can usually get full bank account numbers from their mail. |
| 19:50.21 | jasta | and all that together can be very powerful, where it should not be. |
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| 19:52.12 | anno^da_ | But well look at the social networks. It is really easy do to some social engineering there. You can find so much informations about people. The problem is that the most people dont think about that. They just love giving out the information. |
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| 23:04.25 | mohbana | hi |
| 23:05.04 | jasta | hello |
| 23:06.44 | mohbana | why are people so sceptical about android? |
| 23:08.21 | jasta | well, there are a lot of reasons. |
| 23:09.14 | jasta | first off, developers are having a hard time translating the abstract SDK and emulator into a real phone platform, both because it is currently so old and also because it targets a different sort of purpose than demonstrating a phone stack. |
| 23:09.43 | jasta | For example, there's no SMS app, calendar, the dialer is primitive, etc. it's very abstract in that sense, and is hard to realize somethign concrete from it. |
| 23:10.43 | jasta | Second, the most recent public release was M5, which came in early February. So the general development community has been working since with no new features, polish, etc. |
| 23:11.30 | jasta | Third, Google has been scared with any useful details to date. There are numerous systems in the "latest" (5 month old) SDK that seem to just dead-end. No explanation or clarifications from Google for almost a year now leads most people to doubt that they really have a sensible plan. |
| 23:11.57 | *** join/#android michaelnovakjr__ (n=mnovak@ool-18ba6e83.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 23:11.58 | jasta | Likewise, Google has forced ADC winners to private sign an NDA to get access to newer updates, which has many folks concerned that the product isn't "ready to go", and Google is scrambling. |
| 23:12.08 | michaelnovakjr__ | howdy |
| 23:12.25 | michaelnovakjr__ | zdnet ran that story about existing tmobile customers only getting phones first |
| 23:12.29 | jasta | mohbana: On top of that we see that Android is trying to shake things up in a traditionally stagnant industry, so, yeah, there's reason to doubt. |
| 23:12.34 | michaelnovakjr__ | and that it'll cost 400 bucks |
| 23:12.39 | karmakomik | I think it is mainly coz there havent been any android phones released until now ... even though Google has said it will happen at any point in the 2nd half of 2008 ... And also with symbian going open source n all ... |
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| 23:13.06 | michaelnovakjr__ | zdnet rumor has sept 17th as the date for tmobile |
| 23:13.38 | karmakomik | Limo is also going pretty strong ... mostly supported by the same companies who promote android |
| 23:13.41 | jasta | michaelnovakjr__: *sigh*, this thing is gonna flop ;) |
| 23:13.48 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea |
| 23:13.56 | michaelnovakjr__ | jasta, its a shame |
| 23:14.10 | michaelnovakjr__ | its quite an elegant system |
| 23:14.16 | karmakomik | maybe not ..... Android has done a good job shaking the industry |
| 23:14.21 | jasta | karmakomik: LiMo and Android have almost nothing in common. |
| 23:14.35 | michaelnovakjr__ | that goes to show what happens when the business management guys get involved |
| 23:14.43 | jasta | karmakomik: Actually, Google has come right out and said several times now that they don't intend to change the industry directly. They're only hoping to "lead by example", and trust the carriers to voluntarily follow them. |
| 23:15.02 | michaelnovakjr__ | karmakomik: android hasn't shaken anything up |
| 23:15.11 | michaelnovakjr__ | they haven't released a public sdk since feb |
| 23:15.13 | karmakomik | jasta: I never said so did I? except that it is supported by Motorola n other companies who are also supporting Android |
| 23:15.23 | mohbana | why didn't google just use the sun vm? |
| 23:15.24 | jasta | karmakomik: That's just diversification. |
| 23:15.38 | jasta | mohbana: Several reasons, both technical and political. |
| 23:15.55 | karmakomik | sun vm is just bloatware |
| 23:15.57 | jasta | Sun's VM is not light, and J2ME is restrictive (again both politically and technically) |
| 23:16.19 | jasta | Also, Google needed to ensure all aspects of the project could be distributed under the Apache license. |
| 23:16.22 | michaelnovakjr__ | definitely..... i am still debating even waiting for an android device |
| 23:16.35 | michaelnovakjr__ | might just pass it over |
| 23:16.49 | michaelnovakjr__ | i haven't seen anything recently to make me want one |
| 23:16.56 | jasta | I'll buy one, but I am unsure if I'll use it as my main phone. |
| 23:17.10 | michaelnovakjr__ | i am thinking about an iphone |
| 23:17.17 | michaelnovakjr__ | not for development, but just to be a user |
| 23:17.18 | jasta | If Android had never been announced, I would've bought an iPhone ages ago. |
| 23:17.31 | michaelnovakjr__ | from a user perspective its amazing |
| 23:17.41 | jasta | Yeah, I've used it many times. Impressive devices. |
| 23:17.41 | michaelnovakjr__ | i probably wouldn't write anything for it though |
| 23:17.49 | karmakomik | michaelnovakjr: I have to respectfully disagree. Android has brought the concept that the software platform for mobiles is more important than the mobiles themselves ... essentially trying to free the mobile app industry from the shackles of equipment manufacturers |
| 23:17.52 | michaelnovakjr__ | i like the lastfm app for it |
| 23:18.11 | jasta | What tickles me is that Romain's attitude is so clearly that he just wants stuff to work and doesn't care about open source, freedom, etc. Whereas the only thing binding me to Android is that it's open. If not for that, the iPhone clearly dominates ;) |
| 23:18.14 | michaelnovakjr__ | karmakomik: that relies on us seeing devices that work |
| 23:18.14 | mohbana | does it run any language that compiles to bytecode? |
| 23:18.20 | mohbana | for instance would it run scala? |
| 23:18.30 | jasta | mohbana: It does run Scala, yes. But I woulnd't say "any". |
| 23:18.40 | jasta | Dalvik has its own share of quirks. |
| 23:19.06 | michaelnovakjr__ | the iphone has a very elegant design, and i am certainly thinking about getting one next month |
| 23:19.18 | jasta | mohbana: I know this was't directly your question but I will say that Android is technically an amazing product. Very ambitious, and very well executed. |
| 23:19.32 | jasta | But not everyone is convinced that will trnaslate to a good *phone*. |
| 23:19.52 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@c-69-244-215-210.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 23:19.58 | Dougie187 | whoa whoa whoa... |
| 23:20.00 | Dougie187 | october? |
| 23:20.22 | romainguy_ | jasta: What tickles me is that Romain's attitude is so clearly that he just wants stuff to work and doesn't care about open source, freedom, etc. << that's totally untrue |
| 23:20.22 | jasta | mohbana: Many of us here have spent the last 8 months working with it, and still remain skeptical that it will find consumer success. |
| 23:20.43 | romainguy_ | I've been involved with Open Source projects for a very long time |
| 23:20.53 | jasta | romainguy_: No? Then why did you say that before? :) |
| 23:20.53 | Dougie187 | but srsly... october? |
| 23:20.58 | romainguy_ | and one of the reasons why I'm on Android is because it's Open Source |
| 23:21.06 | jasta | Dougie187: What? |
| 23:21.22 | Dougie187 | i just read the whole tmobile october thing. |
| 23:21.36 | romainguy_ | jasta: No, I was saying that even though I like Open Source, I don't mind proprietary software |
| 23:21.38 | romainguy_ | there's value in both |
| 23:21.47 | michaelnovakjr__ | Dougie187: i saw sept 17th for tmobile |
| 23:21.56 | Dougie187 | http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/15/t-mobile-to-sell-first-android-phone-in-october/ |
| 23:21.59 | romainguy_ | and I am not convinced that open source software is necessarily better than proprietary |
| 23:22.08 | michaelnovakjr__ | look at the iphone |
| 23:22.13 | jasta | romainguy_: You told me that you prefer things to work, be intuitive, and pretty. |
| 23:22.16 | romainguy_ | I'd love to use only Open Source stuff, but when proprietary is better... |
| 23:22.17 | jasta | You said exactly that once. |
| 23:22.20 | romainguy_ | so? |
| 23:22.23 | jasta | And that it doesn't matter to if you that comes as open source or not. |
| 23:23.01 | Dougie187 | are we having more open source arguments in here? |
| 23:23.03 | jasta | Well, you're the only one with access to the "real" Android. Be honest with yourself: does it just work, is more intuitive, and prettier than the iPhone? |
| 23:23.09 | karmakomik | open source or otherwise is clearly besides the point .... we need to have in the mobile industry a s/w platform like windows xp for the pc market ... |
| 23:23.27 | michaelnovakjr__ | karmakomik: the iphone does provide that |
| 23:23.32 | romainguy_ | jasta: I have an iPhone and I work on Android |
| 23:23.35 | jasta | Because to me, the attraction for Android is precisely that it is to be opened. I would be surprised to find that it can win over the iPhone on form and function directly. |
| 23:23.39 | romainguy_ | so I have both :) |
| 23:23.48 | romainguy_ | open source + prettiness |
| 23:23.57 | jasta | romainguy_: I guess my point was that it tickles me to know you may well be happier to keep the iPhone after Android launches. |
| 23:24.02 | jasta | Even if you're unwilling to admit it to us ;) |
| 23:24.12 | romainguy_ | I'm not unwilling to admit anything |
| 23:24.12 | karmakomik | an iphone is like a rolls royce and an android like a volkwagen |
| 23:24.27 | romainguy_ | Im actually willing to admit I use both iPhone and Android every day |
| 23:24.31 | romainguy_ | for different purposes |
| 23:24.40 | AttractiveApe | karmakomik: we don't even know what kind of car android will be yet. |
| 23:24.44 | karmakomik | romainguy: agree with you |
| 23:24.55 | michaelnovakjr__ | romainguy_ not sure that is what people are going to be looking for |
| 23:25.05 | karmakomik | AttractiveApe: ha ha ... thats true |
| 23:25.06 | michaelnovakjr__ | i certainly only want one device |
| 23:25.20 | romainguy_ | michaelnovakjr__: I'm talking about me, not other people |
| 23:25.38 | michaelnovakjr__ | i want to ditch my ipod and keep one device |
| 23:25.55 | karmakomik | Being a Java programmer ... I certainly took to Android ... I would hate to see it being a failure |
| 23:25.56 | michaelnovakjr__ | whether that be an iphone or an android phone.... i only want one device |
| 23:26.41 | umdk1d4 | i want a cookie |
| 23:26.45 | karmakomik | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:26.49 | Dougie187 | i wanna know about october. |
| 23:27.15 | karmakomik | umdk1d4: yes webkit does support cookie management |
| 23:27.21 | umdk1d4 | LOL |
| 23:27.26 | karmakomik | October is a month |
| 23:27.36 | Dougie187 | thank you karmakomik |
| 23:27.40 | umdk1d4 | :) |
| 23:27.40 | Dougie187 | very helpful. |
| 23:27.40 | michaelnovakjr__ | karmakomik: what do you mean different markets |
| 23:27.49 | jasta | romainguy_: This market does not generally support folks who want to use two phones. |
| 23:28.05 | morrildl | jasta: it most definitely does in Europe. |
| 23:28.11 | morrildl | cell phone penetration there is > 100%. |
| 23:28.21 | Dougie187 | morrildl: october? |
| 23:28.28 | michaelnovakjr__ | morrildl: i only want one device |
| 23:28.37 | karmakomik | iPhone is clearly for the high end smartphone market while Android will be initially aimed at the low and mid range markets |
| 23:28.39 | romainguy_ | jasta: did I talk about people who want two phones? I said that **I** am happy using two phones |
| 23:28.48 | michaelnovakjr__ | karmakomik: that isn't entirely true |
| 23:28.53 | umdk1d4 | mmm i think they will still have comparable hardware |
| 23:28.55 | jasta | karmakomik: i don't know about that. the pricing is likely to be quite similar. |
| 23:28.58 | michaelnovakjr__ | with a rumor of the phone costing 400 big ones :) |
| 23:28.59 | *** join/#android duey (n=Nick@203.96.223.40) |
| 23:29.07 | jasta | karmakomik: The HTC device certainly isn't gonna be cheap, I know that much. Their devices never are :) |
| 23:29.10 | umdk1d4 | i dont think ihpone will have "premeum" hardware |
| 23:29.17 | karmakomik | not true .... maybe in the future ... but as of now that is the truth |
| 23:29.17 | michaelnovakjr__ | jasta, and certainly not the best |
| 23:29.27 | michaelnovakjr__ | apple has the hardware down like a science |
| 23:29.37 | tomgibara_ | jasta: morrildl's right based on my experience - most people I know have more than one phone |
| 23:29.52 | Dougie187 | i dont know anyone who has more then one phone. |
| 23:29.55 | Dougie187 | except my dad |
| 23:30.04 | karmakomik | jasta: for HTC phones u also pay for the windows license that u wont have to for android |
| 23:30.06 | Dougie187 | but its just dumb to have more then one phone. |
| 23:30.06 | michaelnovakjr__ | i don't either and would find that annoying |
| 23:30.09 | Dougie187 | what the hells the point. |
| 23:30.09 | umdk1d4 | tomgibara_: but do they WANT >1 phone, or do they just deal with it becasu its the current state of things? |
| 23:30.11 | Dougie187 | me too |
| 23:30.15 | Dougie187 | i dont want 2 phones. |
| 23:30.19 | jasta | karmakomik: That's not very much AFAIK. I think it's like $80. |
| 23:30.19 | Dougie187 | its hard enough to manage one. |
| 23:30.23 | romainguy_ | Dougie187: what about one for personal use and one for work? |
| 23:30.24 | michaelnovakjr__ | karmakomik: the rumor is the HTC phone will cost 400 dollars |
| 23:30.36 | tomgibara_ | umdk1d4: Simply because they accumlate them I guess |
| 23:30.37 | Dougie187 | i would prefer to have them together. |
| 23:30.39 | romainguy_ | that's what I do |
| 23:30.42 | karmakomik | 400 $??? |
| 23:30.43 | romainguy_ | what's what many friends of mine do |
| 23:30.44 | umdk1d4 | michaelnovakjr__: thats prolly before subsidised |
| 23:30.49 | jasta | romainguy_: the only reason people use a separate phone for work is because they have a crappy work phone, like Windows Mobile. |
| 23:30.53 | tomgibara_ | Let's put it this way: how many people here have only one computer? |
| 23:30.55 | umdk1d4 | Dougie187: im in the same boat, i want it all in one |
| 23:30.59 | umdk1d4 | but i deal with 3 atm |
| 23:30.59 | Dougie187 | and if that was really something that needed to be done, i would leave my work one somewhere and have calls forwarded to my personal one. |
| 23:31.04 | michaelnovakjr__ | tomgibara_: computers and phones are different |
| 23:31.10 | Dougie187 | all i really need is a work number. |
| 23:31.11 | jasta | tomgibara_: Phones go in your pocket. Computers don't. |
| 23:31.11 | michaelnovakjr__ | i have like 10 computers but only one phone |
| 23:31.13 | plusminus_ | damn it, I suddenly get a "ERROR/JavaBinder(517): java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: provider=gps" |
| 23:31.31 | Dougie187 | and that can be accomplished from a work land line too. just forward calls to your cell. |
| 23:31.34 | plusminus_ | at ... at ... at... "ERROR/AndroidRuntime(1495): at android.location.LocationManager.createProvider(LocationManager.java:61) " |
| 23:31.42 | michaelnovakjr__ | i was very happy with android, but that has slowly faded |
| 23:31.46 | karmakomik | jasta: u said it dude |
| 23:31.52 | umdk1d4 | tomgibara_: its easy to leave computers at home in the corner running, but not as easy to carry multiple phones |
| 23:32.13 | umdk1d4 | yea, jasta makes a good point |
| 23:32.54 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 23:32.54 | michaelnovakjr__ | i have a phone and an ipod on me all the time |
| 23:33.00 | tomgibara_ | I'm simply pointing out that most of the population probably own one computer - developers may have many because each one serves a different purpos |
| 23:33.09 | jasta | michaelnovakjr__: and i bet you'd like to consolidate? :) |
| 23:33.17 | michaelnovakjr__ | jasta, very much so |
| 23:33.19 | Dougie187 | i sure as hell would. |
| 23:33.19 | umdk1d4 | tomgibara_: similar argument about stereo systems |
| 23:33.23 | tomgibara_ | The people I know have many because to them, each phone has different strengths/purposes |
| 23:33.24 | michaelnovakjr__ | jasta, that is why i am leaning towards an iphone |
| 23:33.29 | Dougie187 | id super glue them together if it would work how i want. |
| 23:33.29 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:33.39 | michaelnovakjr__ | jasta, between the lastfm streaming and the ipod software, that's hard to compete with |
| 23:33.41 | umdk1d4 | back in the 80s, everyone had components, and audiophiles didnt like the all-in-ones |
| 23:33.46 | umdk1d4 | but consumers loved em |
| 23:33.52 | michaelnovakjr__ | jasta, i got skyfire for win mo |
| 23:34.21 | tomgibara_ | One work one perhaps, one home one on contract, and perhaps even one pay-as-you go phone for knocking about with |
| 23:34.50 | jasta | michaelnovakjr__: well, keep an open mind for Five ;) |
| 23:34.50 | karmakomik | hey did any of u hear? HSBC is going to replace its balckberries with the iphone ... http://www.seo-webdesign.in/services/apple-iphone-may-replace-blackberry-by-hsbc130.html |
| 23:34.54 | tomgibara_ | I'm not saying its needed or wanted, but it is certainly tolerated |
| 23:35.09 | michaelnovakjr__ | jasta, that's why i am hoping android is good |
| 23:35.13 | Dougie187 | im waiting for five! |
| 23:35.16 | tomgibara_ | In the same way that developers tolerate, and perhaps even enjoy, being able to choose from a pool of computers |
| 23:35.22 | michaelnovakjr__ | jasta, at least i know there's a good music app |
| 23:35.29 | AttractiveApe | I have all of my travelling music on my vogue, and it works well. |
| 23:35.30 | umdk1d4 | ooh jasta question, does five do remote control of another media player? |
| 23:35.33 | michaelnovakjr__ | as far as the other apps.... i'm not holding my breath |
| 23:35.34 | umdk1d4 | on your desktop for instance |
| 23:35.36 | karmakomik | tomgibara: bad analogy .. |
| 23:35.45 | Dougie187 | ok ok guys... |
| 23:35.47 | AttractiveApe | umdk1d4: ... no. |
| 23:35.47 | Dougie187 | but seriously. |
| 23:35.48 | Dougie187 | october? |
| 23:36.00 | umdk1d4 | cuz i was writing a dbus/dcop client the other day to control amarok/vlc remotely |
| 23:36.11 | tomgibara_ | karmakomik: most analogies usually are ;) |
| 23:36.11 | umdk1d4 | found some other solutions too |
| 23:36.17 | umdk1d4 | i would totally use the remote |
| 23:36.20 | karmakomik | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:36.30 | Dougie187 | http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/15/t-mobile-to-sell-first-android-phone-in-october/ |
| 23:36.30 | Dougie187 | ? |
| 23:36.32 | umdk1d4 | lol october |
| 23:36.46 | karmakomik | tomgibara: well ... i agree with you on that one |
| 23:37.03 | jasta | umdk1d4: not currently, but i am thinking about it. |
| 23:37.03 | karmakomik | all hail october |
| 23:37.25 | jasta | umdk1d4: isnce it has access to your home machine so directly, and all your home meta data, i thought about having a simple remote control mode where choosing the songs on the device is really just asking the computer to play them |
| 23:37.33 | umdk1d4 | btw quick poll of desktops for everyone in here? i use linux+amarok for my music |
| 23:37.37 | michaelnovakjr__ | i'll have an iphone by then unless there's an appealing android sdk release before a week from today |
| 23:37.51 | umdk1d4 | jasta: for metadata, does it connect to amarok mysql? ;) that would be awesome if it did |
| 23:37.58 | michaelnovakjr__ | umdk1d4: linux rythmbox and mac/itunes |
| 23:38.11 | Dougie187 | linux+rhythmbox right now.. amarok is cool too though |
| 23:38.13 | jasta | umdk1d4: No, the server collects and provides its own meta data. |
| 23:38.14 | umdk1d4 | does mac have anyhting like dbus/dcop for RPC to apps? |
| 23:38.14 | karmakomik | the reason why I really want to get my hands on the android is mainly coz of the accelerometer functionality |
| 23:38.36 | michaelnovakjr__ | karmakomik: the iphone has that |
| 23:38.47 | michaelnovakjr__ | you can get the drink the beer app that uses it!! |
| 23:38.53 | umdk1d4 | karmakomik: deffy :) im glad they have a second contest, cuz so many apps we havent even imagined yet |
| 23:38.56 | Dougie187 | so... guys... october? has anyone else hear this or anything? |
| 23:39.05 | umdk1d4 | lol Dougie187 |
| 23:39.09 | Dougie187 | ... really im just going to keep asking until someone resposnds... |
| 23:39.09 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:39.09 | jasta | bbl guys |
| 23:39.10 | michaelnovakjr__ | Dougie187: SEPT 17!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 23:39.14 | umdk1d4 | OMG!!!! |
| 23:39.18 | umdk1d4 | lol |
| 23:39.19 | Dougie187 | Whered you hear that michaelnovakjr__? |
| 23:39.19 | jasta | Dougie187: we are hearing that is is soon, for sure. |
| 23:39.20 | michaelnovakjr__ | Dougie187: look at zdenet.com |
| 23:39.20 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:39.21 | karmakomik | michaelnovakjr: I can't write my own code and upload it on the iphone can I?? |
| 23:39.23 | michaelnovakjr__ | zdnet.com |
| 23:39.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | karmakomik: you can |
| 23:39.38 | Dougie187 | i wanna know sprints dates. |
| 23:39.47 | michaelnovakjr__ | Dougie187: don't hold your breath |
| 23:39.52 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:39.53 | karmakomik | michaelnovakjr: through jailbreaking maybe |
| 23:39.56 | umdk1d4 | lol http://blogs.zdnet.com/Google/?p=1118 17th article |
| 23:40.01 | michaelnovakjr__ | karmakomik: not at all |
| 23:40.37 | michaelnovakjr__ | karmakomik: you can build legit apps for the iphone |
| 23:40.39 | karmakomik | michaelnovakjr: oh comeon .. u can install apps purchased from the online apple store only!! |
| 23:40.42 | Dougie187 | damnit that garrett rogers guy is creepy looking. |
| 23:40.51 | michaelnovakjr__ | karmakomik: you can write them though!! |
| 23:41.01 | michaelnovakjr__ | Dougie187: very creepy |
| 23:41.12 | Dougie187 | he makes me want to punch him. |
| 23:41.18 | michaelnovakjr__ | he actually has two pictures on the site... it looks like two different guys |
| 23:41.19 | umdk1d4 | o.o |
| 23:41.32 | Dougie187 | he looks like he would stalk my wife. |
| 23:41.37 | Dougie187 | and make me knife him in the stomach. |
| 23:41.40 | michaelnovakjr__ | Dougie187: that must be his makeup pic |
| 23:41.53 | umdk1d4 | hmm someone should announce that android has actually already launched, and you could have bought handsets back in june |
| 23:42.04 | umdk1d4 | like some sort of bad dream |
| 23:42.07 | karmakomik | michaelnovakjr: what ??!! are u out of ur mind? how can u compare the convenience of simply tranferring a program from the pc to the android after coding with the tedious task of uploading it on the apple store and then installing it?? |
| 23:42.29 | umdk1d4 | well uploading AND waiting for approval |
| 23:42.45 | jasta | karmakomik: well, android will have an app store too. |
| 23:42.47 | karmakomik | and the apple store also charges money for hosting apps |
| 23:43.17 | michaelnovakjr__ | karmakomik: i like the iphone for the users point of view |
| 23:43.18 | karmakomik | jasta: I know ... but I can also do my own hacks w/o anyone bothering me |
| 23:44.09 | karmakomik | michaelnovakjr: i totally get u dude ..... Android is nothing compared to the iphone .... but it can play catch up ... :) |
| 23:44.29 | plusminus_ | I hope the Android-"Appstore" will not charge like 30-50% as I fear it bc of:... |
| 23:44.36 | michaelnovakjr__ | karmakomik: its got a long way based on the top 50 :) |
| 23:44.58 | michaelnovakjr__ | karmakomik: i wrote a few apps for android on the vogue..... but i stopped using it |
| 23:45.02 | plusminus_ | http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss/msg/d6923ae652ad95f2 |
| 23:45.06 | karmakomik | michaelnovakjr: he he ... yes thats sadly true |
| 23:45.06 | michaelnovakjr__ | i have to put it back on |
| 23:47.30 | michaelnovakjr__ | i like the android platform for development, but i don't have faith handset makers are any good |
| 23:47.54 | karmakomik | I heard that some silicon valley VC firm recently started a fund exclusively for startups making iphone apps! |
| 23:48.09 | michaelnovakjr__ | karmakomik: that happened a while ago |
| 23:48.40 | mohbana | what phone will ship android in the uk? |
| 23:48.47 | umdk1d4 | WOA /me just realizeds something |
| 23:48.57 | umdk1d4 | could you REPLACE the google app store with your own!?!? |
| 23:49.03 | umdk1d4 | just like all the other stuff? |
| 23:49.18 | michaelnovakjr__ | ?? |
| 23:49.20 | jasta | umdk1d4: who knows. maybe you can, maybe you can't. |
| 23:49.42 | jasta | i mean, depends on what intents it uses, who it ues them, how the carriers combine it all, etc. |
| 23:49.50 | umdk1d4 | hopefully its repository-based, like debian |
| 23:49.51 | karmakomik | yes ... android did change the perception in the mobile industry though ... people are now more focussed on uniformity in app dev .... with symbian going open, we will see a very interesting future for Mobile phone s/w with or without android ... |
| 23:49.56 | umdk1d4 | so easy to add non-free repos, etc |
| 23:50.19 | michaelnovakjr__ | who knows |
| 23:50.34 | michaelnovakjr__ | my confidence is completely deflated |
| 23:50.42 | karmakomik | hmm |
| 23:50.45 | michaelnovakjr__ | i fear a very rocky launch |
| 23:50.54 | jasta | ditto |
| 23:51.04 | michaelnovakjr__ | if that happens it'll sink like the titanic |
| 23:51.18 | jasta | maybe they will surprise, but the reality is that we know nothing about the platform. we have absolutely no reason to think we will love it. |
| 23:51.21 | michaelnovakjr__ | all those people waiting to see will jump for the iphone |
| 23:51.50 | jasta | and a few reason to think we'll hate it. like T-Mobile carrying it in the US *groan* |
| 23:52.03 | *** join/#android joaquim (i=536959a8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f369fd57dbbed39c) |
| 23:52.11 | michaelnovakjr__ | jasta, yea that sucks |
| 23:52.39 | karmakomik | michaelnovakjr : well ... let's hope that celine dion doesnt do the soundtrack for the commemorative film about android ... |
| 23:52.42 | jasta | but, i will give them the benefit of the doubt when it launches. |
| 23:52.53 | jasta | i'm nervous now, but i don't know one or way or another. i don't know what it will be at all. |
| 23:52.56 | michaelnovakjr__ | jasta, keyword is when |
| 23:52.58 | jasta | none of us have seen ANY of the phone itself. |
| 23:53.15 | jasta | we've seen the platform, but stripped of everything that makes it a real smartphone |
| 23:53.22 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea |
| 23:53.27 | michaelnovakjr__ | except my SMS app :) |
| 23:53.37 | karmakomik | but it has huge potential though |
| 23:54.21 | karmakomik | you have a huge java developer community waiting to jump into the bandwagon if android really takes off |
| 23:54.36 | michaelnovakjr__ | karmakomik: i don't know if the size of the community matters |
| 23:54.42 | michaelnovakjr__ | karmakomik: i want quality apps |
| 23:54.44 | mohbana | what phone will ship android in the uk? |
| 23:54.55 | michaelnovakjr__ | mohbana: no one knows |
| 23:55.04 | karmakomik | Quality will come ...... in time |
| 23:55.14 | michaelnovakjr__ | that isn't good karmakomik |
| 23:55.22 | karmakomik | I know :( |
| 23:55.27 | tomgibara_ | karmakomik: on what basis? Like windows? |
| 23:55.57 | karmakomik | tomgibara: exactly .... that is what I had in mind |
| 23:56.24 | michaelnovakjr__ | ?? |
| 23:56.26 | tomgibara_ | I draw the opposite conclusion |
| 23:56.41 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 23:56.53 | tomgibara_ | One of the things that excites me about Android is that it seems so well engineered |
| 23:57.00 | karmakomik | tomgibara : well we all have our preferences |
| 23:57.06 | tomgibara_ | Anyone with broad enough experience will see that |
| 23:57.30 | tomgibara_ | And if it catches on it could teach a generation of developers how to do things |
| 23:57.38 | michaelnovakjr__ | tomgibara_: right now that is the only thing android has going for it |
| 23:57.43 | karmakomik | tomgibara:with a well engineered base .... you can expect quality apps to come off it |
| 23:57.56 | michaelnovakjr__ | i enjoy writing software for it because the APIs are nicely done |
| 23:58.05 | michaelnovakjr__ | karmakomik: not exactly though |
| 23:58.06 | tomgibara_ | exactly, but once you ship a poor base, it's mostly too late |
| 23:58.33 | michaelnovakjr__ | karmakomik: java is one of those languages that can have really bad software and really good software because its an easy language to learn |
| 23:58.55 | gambler | umdk1d4, my home theatre is powered by windows MCE, after rejecting most all crap open source solutions... |
| 23:59.05 | umdk1d4 | hmm |
| 23:59.07 | gambler | XBMC though is very close to passing the 'wife/gf' test though. |
| 23:59.19 | umdk1d4 | gambler: do you know what kind of RPC windows offers? |
| 23:59.23 | karmakomik | michaelnovakjr: with a google (or some other hosting service) having an android store ... we can sift through the crap |
| 23:59.25 | umdk1d4 | other than global shortcuts? |
| 23:59.43 | umdk1d4 | and so we would insert an app that sends those global shortcuts to the listening app |
| 23:59.48 | umdk1d4 | might be lower level windows api calls |
| 23:59.57 | umdk1d4 | specifiaclly i think windows+itunes is a good target |